Invitation? What Invitation?
January 19, 2004 11:49 AM Subscribe
Invitation? What Invitation? Howard Dean says Jimmy Carter asked him to church in Georgia. Carter doesn't think so. Why is Dean so worried about his lead in the last days of the Iowa Caucuse that he needs to lie?
lame.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:59 AM on January 19, 2004
posted by Space Coyote at 11:59 AM on January 19, 2004
it was predicted approximately 14 hours ago that you would be the one to post this
I know I waited the time to see if anyone else would post it...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:59 AM on January 19, 2004
I know I waited the time to see if anyone else would post it...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:59 AM on January 19, 2004
Has anyone coined a term to address the media's tendancy to do this to Dem presidential candidates. By this, I mean create some sort of red handed lie out of a meaningless comment. How about "Goring"?
posted by MetalDog at 12:01 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by MetalDog at 12:01 PM on January 19, 2004
So you're saying that there should be consequences for lying, no matter who you are? Can I quote you on that at a later time?
posted by 2sheets at 12:02 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by 2sheets at 12:02 PM on January 19, 2004
Why is Dean so worried about his lead in the last days of the Iowa Caucuse that he needs to lie?
Wtf? I hope this post gets deleted.
posted by delmoi at 12:05 PM on January 19, 2004
Wtf? I hope this post gets deleted.
posted by delmoi at 12:05 PM on January 19, 2004
"As for the timing, Carter’s son Chip later told reporters that the former President had also offered Dean dates in February and March. It was Dean — not Carter — who picked the day before the caucuses." So offering dates is not the same as inviting?
posted by smackfu at 12:08 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by smackfu at 12:08 PM on January 19, 2004
Come on though, you have to question Dean's judgment if he thought that Jimmy Carter was going to lie to cover him.
posted by boltman at 12:12 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by boltman at 12:12 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean really has you repubs scared, huh?
*evil cackle*
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:14 PM on January 19, 2004
*evil cackle*
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:14 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Dean. All you people have is anger.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 12:14 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 12:14 PM on January 19, 2004
FreeperFilter.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:15 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by Armitage Shanks at 12:15 PM on January 19, 2004
It's about time Dean accepted that self-flagellating Jesus Aitch Christ as our most exalted lord and saviour. Now he's electable!
posted by The God Complex at 12:17 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by The God Complex at 12:17 PM on January 19, 2004
*evil cackle*
methinks the lady doth protest too much.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:20 PM on January 19, 2004
methinks the lady doth protest too much.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:20 PM on January 19, 2004
GOTCHA! GOTCHA! GOTCHA!
Dean lied! He's not nearly as truthful as, say, Dick Cheney or Cheney's boss!
Let's also sniff Dean Campaign intern's dresses, looking for come stains, one never knows!!!
you're too funny Steve.
really.
btw, found any WMD's hidden in Saddam's beard? No?
well, look again!
Why is Dean so worried about his lead in the last days of the Iowa Caucuse that he needs to lie?
yeah, I hear that he wants to invade Iowa because they're storing WMD's -- hidden deep under those wheat fields. a good distraction. it may even work!
Wtf? I hope this post gets deleted.
yeah, then all over warblogland Haughey will become the terrorist radical who censored an important Conservative voice in his Satanic blog. no, let's keep for the record our Conservative friends' newly-found attachment for truthfulness in politics
because you know, I thought only Arab-loving liberals cared about politicians telling the truth, these days
posted by matteo at 12:28 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean lied! He's not nearly as truthful as, say, Dick Cheney or Cheney's boss!
Let's also sniff Dean Campaign intern's dresses, looking for come stains, one never knows!!!
you're too funny Steve.
really.
btw, found any WMD's hidden in Saddam's beard? No?
well, look again!
Why is Dean so worried about his lead in the last days of the Iowa Caucuse that he needs to lie?
yeah, I hear that he wants to invade Iowa because they're storing WMD's -- hidden deep under those wheat fields. a good distraction. it may even work!
Wtf? I hope this post gets deleted.
yeah, then all over warblogland Haughey will become the terrorist radical who censored an important Conservative voice in his Satanic blog. no, let's keep for the record our Conservative friends' newly-found attachment for truthfulness in politics
because you know, I thought only Arab-loving liberals cared about politicians telling the truth, these days
posted by matteo at 12:28 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Rove. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Republicans. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash the Bush Family. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
etc, etc, etc...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:30 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Rove. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Republicans. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash the Bush Family. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
etc, etc, etc...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:30 PM on January 19, 2004
GOTCHA! GOTCHA! GOTCHA!
DEAN LIED!
It's all about peanut OIL!
you're too funny Steve.
Why, thank you!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:32 PM on January 19, 2004
DEAN LIED!
It's all about peanut OIL!
you're too funny Steve.
Why, thank you!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:32 PM on January 19, 2004
“When the former President of the United States asks you to go to church with him on a Sunday before the caucuses, I think you probably take that up.”
I'd like to see the quote in its full context, are there any other sources? Or just Time? It may have been a lie, a mis-statement, or a example of the media spinning his words a'la Al Gore.
On Preview: Steve, if you have a problem with the direction of this thread perhaps you should take it to MeTa. I find it odd when someone pisses on their own thread, so maybe you should back off, take a breath and try again.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:35 PM on January 19, 2004
I'd like to see the quote in its full context, are there any other sources? Or just Time? It may have been a lie, a mis-statement, or a example of the media spinning his words a'la Al Gore.
On Preview: Steve, if you have a problem with the direction of this thread perhaps you should take it to MeTa. I find it odd when someone pisses on their own thread, so maybe you should back off, take a breath and try again.
posted by elwoodwiles at 12:35 PM on January 19, 2004
jeezus linwood ... maybe a little yoga? or a workout? perhaps some time volunteering somewhere ... would be a better use of your time ... rather than posting musty news items straight off yesterdays drudgereport.
phew. this one stinks.
posted by specialk420 at 12:44 PM on January 19, 2004
phew. this one stinks.
posted by specialk420 at 12:44 PM on January 19, 2004
perhaps some time volunteering somewhere ...
yeah, like staging some riots outside of Miami-Dade County, for example. you know, work for the common good
;)
anyway I'll help you out Steve. here are some of Howard Dean's shameless, murderous lies:
"Don't wait for mushroom cloud"
“The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other.”
“Today, no nation can possibly claim that Iraq has disarmed.”
“Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”
I also hear that Dean (who has a criminal record) was a cokehead and an alcoholic, Steve. maybe you can post a fpp about that, next week
posted by matteo at 12:52 PM on January 19, 2004
yeah, like staging some riots outside of Miami-Dade County, for example. you know, work for the common good
;)
anyway I'll help you out Steve. here are some of Howard Dean's shameless, murderous lies:
"Don't wait for mushroom cloud"
“The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other.”
“Today, no nation can possibly claim that Iraq has disarmed.”
“Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”
I also hear that Dean (who has a criminal record) was a cokehead and an alcoholic, Steve. maybe you can post a fpp about that, next week
posted by matteo at 12:52 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Rove. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Republicans. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash the Bush Family. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
Eight lefts don't make a right. In other words, try to grow up and rise above the fray, young man.
posted by liam at 1:02 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Rove. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Republicans. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash the Bush Family. All you people have is anger
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
Eight lefts don't make a right. In other words, try to grow up and rise above the fray, young man.
posted by liam at 1:02 PM on January 19, 2004
Zogby
Kerry 25
Dean 22
Edwards 21
Gephardt 18
SurveyUSA (PDF)
Dean 24
Edwards 22
Kerry 21
Gephardt 20
he dosn't have the lead he used to, but he's not doing that badly.
DM Register
Kerry 26
Edwards 23
Dean 20
Gephardt 18
Research 2000
Dean 22
Kerry 21
Edwards 18
Gephardt 18
Insider Advantage (Final vote)
Kerry 34
Dean 28
Edwards 21
Gephardt 17
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on January 19, 2004
Kerry 25
Dean 22
Edwards 21
Gephardt 18
SurveyUSA (PDF)
Dean 24
Edwards 22
Kerry 21
Gephardt 20
he dosn't have the lead he used to, but he's not doing that badly.
DM Register
Kerry 26
Edwards 23
Dean 20
Gephardt 18
Research 2000
Dean 22
Kerry 21
Edwards 18
Gephardt 18
Insider Advantage (Final vote)
Kerry 34
Dean 28
Edwards 21
Gephardt 17
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean really has you repubs scared, huh?
From all the misdirection I've seen recently, it would appear that Kerry is the person they don't want to face in November.
posted by xiffix at 1:04 PM on January 19, 2004
From all the misdirection I've seen recently, it would appear that Kerry is the person they don't want to face in November.
posted by xiffix at 1:04 PM on January 19, 2004
Steve, it's the subject about the purported lie. If Bush is being less than honest about WMD's, Energy task forces, who his tax benefits are going to, the effects of his medicare plan, his political strategy to paint dissent as unamerican, his tactic of supressing protest whereever he goes, his methods of installing judges, etc (I can go on). Those are all issues of some substance to the position as President of the United States of America. Whether Dean invited himself of was invited by Carter to pancake dinner is astoundingly dumb in comparison. To quote that idiot O'Reilly, "If that's the best you can do, Al, than go ahead and come after me."
And btw I'm pretty much on record on calling bullshit when there is an insubstantial story about Bush.
Come up with something better about Dean and we'll talk about it. This and the referring to the "Soviet Union", dropping the "former", while speaking when everyone clearly understood what he was talking about as he'd said "former" earlier. That's pretty lame.
I understand it might be hard in the current media environment. When Cal Thomas is writing columns that basically say "Dean isn't really Christian because he married a Jew", it may be hard for some of us to see the real issues for the bullshit.
posted by McBain at 1:08 PM on January 19, 2004
And btw I'm pretty much on record on calling bullshit when there is an insubstantial story about Bush.
Come up with something better about Dean and we'll talk about it. This and the referring to the "Soviet Union", dropping the "former", while speaking when everyone clearly understood what he was talking about as he'd said "former" earlier. That's pretty lame.
I understand it might be hard in the current media environment. When Cal Thomas is writing columns that basically say "Dean isn't really Christian because he married a Jew", it may be hard for some of us to see the real issues for the bullshit.
posted by McBain at 1:08 PM on January 19, 2004
Why is Dean so worried about his lead in the last days of the Iowa Caucuse that he needs to lie?
Why are you dumping your agenda on an FPP? I won't argue that Dean's arrival didn't come via a handwritten invite, but this is much more he-said-she-said than a full-on lie.
Christ, this is a terrible post...
posted by mkultra at 1:09 PM on January 19, 2004
Why are you dumping your agenda on an FPP? I won't argue that Dean's arrival didn't come via a handwritten invite, but this is much more he-said-she-said than a full-on lie.
Christ, this is a terrible post...
posted by mkultra at 1:09 PM on January 19, 2004
It's now been pretty well established that Carter invited Dean, and the only issue was the precise date. Steve, what do you have to say for yourself? Do I hear an apology for this lame post? Why don't you put such things on the Diaries at DailyKos?
posted by deanc at 1:10 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by deanc at 1:10 PM on January 19, 2004
See, this is why we need Al Sharpton to save the world.
posted by xmutex at 1:10 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by xmutex at 1:10 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean really has you repubs scared, huh?
Dean has plenty of Dems scared too, because they don't belive he has a chance in hell of beating Bush. But if the Dean people put their muscle behind this guy, it might be another story.
posted by homunculus at 1:30 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean has plenty of Dems scared too, because they don't belive he has a chance in hell of beating Bush. But if the Dean people put their muscle behind this guy, it might be another story.
posted by homunculus at 1:30 PM on January 19, 2004
The latest White House script for reporters
(Salon)
ACCEPTABLE QUESTIONS TO ASK DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE:
# Why are you so angry and negative?
# President Bush is incredibly popular, and beloved by common people like himself.
Why do you hate him, knowing this makes decent, God-fearing, Christian Americans hate you?
# Bush is fighting terrorists, or will be, when we actually invade a country that has some. Why are you against that?
# We (Republicans, Good Americans) support our troops. Why do you want to undermine them, and therefore kill them?
# President Bush fought to provide Americans with a Medicare prescription drug benefit. Don't you realize that by hating him, you're putting yourself outside the mainstream of America?
UNACCEPTABLE QUESTIONS:
# Anything about single-payer healthcare, rampant war profiteering by Bush corporate cronies in Iraq, Enron, WMD in Iraq, dead soldiers in Iraq, nonexistent nuclear program in Iraq, corporate malfeasance, funding for "No Child Left Behind," Afghanistan, quid pro quo anti-environmental legislation for "Pioneer Level" Corporate Donors, and the Bush ban on the government from making best deal with pharmaceutical companies for prescription drugs.
Clear? If you have any questions, just go to the Campaign Default Position -- Dean ANGRY FANATIC, Bush BELOVED LEADER. Thanks!
posted by matteo at 1:30 PM on January 19, 2004
(Salon)
ACCEPTABLE QUESTIONS TO ASK DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE:
# Why are you so angry and negative?
# President Bush is incredibly popular, and beloved by common people like himself.
Why do you hate him, knowing this makes decent, God-fearing, Christian Americans hate you?
# Bush is fighting terrorists, or will be, when we actually invade a country that has some. Why are you against that?
# We (Republicans, Good Americans) support our troops. Why do you want to undermine them, and therefore kill them?
# President Bush fought to provide Americans with a Medicare prescription drug benefit. Don't you realize that by hating him, you're putting yourself outside the mainstream of America?
UNACCEPTABLE QUESTIONS:
# Anything about single-payer healthcare, rampant war profiteering by Bush corporate cronies in Iraq, Enron, WMD in Iraq, dead soldiers in Iraq, nonexistent nuclear program in Iraq, corporate malfeasance, funding for "No Child Left Behind," Afghanistan, quid pro quo anti-environmental legislation for "Pioneer Level" Corporate Donors, and the Bush ban on the government from making best deal with pharmaceutical companies for prescription drugs.
Clear? If you have any questions, just go to the Campaign Default Position -- Dean ANGRY FANATIC, Bush BELOVED LEADER. Thanks!
posted by matteo at 1:30 PM on January 19, 2004
So Bush lies about his reasons for putting American soldiers into war, with the result that hundreds of them are now dead along with tens of thousands of civilians.
Dean lies about being invited to a church on a certain Sunday, with the result that he'll probably go to church on another day.
I can see how those two issues can be conflated, oh yeah.
Thanks, S@L. What a home run for the home team!
posted by five fresh fish at 1:33 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean lies about being invited to a church on a certain Sunday, with the result that he'll probably go to church on another day.
I can see how those two issues can be conflated, oh yeah.
Thanks, S@L. What a home run for the home team!
posted by five fresh fish at 1:33 PM on January 19, 2004
Is it somehow better to be an apologist for Dean and shout down those who would disagree with you than to be an apologist for Bush and shout down those who disagree with you? Dean fucked up and misspoke about or misrepresented the nature of this church visit. I supported him for a while, and part of me still wants to cling to the illusion of choice, but it's naïve to think that getting a Democrat in office would be some sort of panacea.
posted by UrbanFigaro at 1:50 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by UrbanFigaro at 1:50 PM on January 19, 2004
Hey Steve, Dean ain't perfect but he's much better then Bush.
On a side note, why in the world would anyone want to associate themselves with Jimmy Carter? yes, he's a sweet, kind, intelligent man, but his rep was shot ages ago because of the Iran hostage situation.
posted by jbou at 1:54 PM on January 19, 2004
On a side note, why in the world would anyone want to associate themselves with Jimmy Carter? yes, he's a sweet, kind, intelligent man, but his rep was shot ages ago because of the Iran hostage situation.
posted by jbou at 1:54 PM on January 19, 2004
What a shitty post. Just another excuse to bash Bush. All you people have is anger
America The One Party State - The Republican party is not George Bush.
When does politics become treason? - Lew Rockwell wacko libertarian screed + wacko right wing website screed Not to my taste but monju_bosatsu made an edifying contribution. Libertarians "R" not George Bush.
Blubblenumpkin - Karl Rove is not George Bush, just his brain.
Charles Pickering - Is not George Bush.
FCC trying to ban the word Fuck - 'Fuck' is not George Bush.
Bounding the Global War on Terrorism - The war in Iraq is not George Bush.
These are poor examples of Bush bashing.
posted by y2karl at 1:58 PM on January 19, 2004
America The One Party State - The Republican party is not George Bush.
When does politics become treason? - Lew Rockwell wacko libertarian screed + wacko right wing website screed Not to my taste but monju_bosatsu made an edifying contribution. Libertarians "R" not George Bush.
Blubblenumpkin - Karl Rove is not George Bush, just his brain.
Charles Pickering - Is not George Bush.
FCC trying to ban the word Fuck - 'Fuck' is not George Bush.
Bounding the Global War on Terrorism - The war in Iraq is not George Bush.
These are poor examples of Bush bashing.
posted by y2karl at 1:58 PM on January 19, 2004
Errr Steve, was this FPP supposed to show how how accurate and reliable you are as a source of information?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:12 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by rough ashlar at 2:12 PM on January 19, 2004
but his rep was shot ages ago because of the Iran hostage situation.
Yeah, I mean, nobody cares about that award thing he got a few years ago. What was that called?
posted by The God Complex at 2:14 PM on January 19, 2004
Yeah, I mean, nobody cares about that award thing he got a few years ago. What was that called?
posted by The God Complex at 2:14 PM on January 19, 2004
You mean the award given by the Old-Europe dynamite-inventing pacifist commies? And never mind that Casey may have willfully sabotaged attempts to resolve the hostage crisis before the election.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 2:18 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 2:18 PM on January 19, 2004
Steve may be playing 'gotcha,' but a lot of those people bashing him have been playing the same game for a loooong time.
posted by cell divide at 2:25 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by cell divide at 2:25 PM on January 19, 2004
CNN reported that Carter is by far the most popular dem for Iowans (much more than Clinton)...thus Dean's visit.
posted by amberglow at 2:28 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by amberglow at 2:28 PM on January 19, 2004
from the article:
“I didn’t invite him, but I’m glad he came,” the former President told reporters shortly before he conducted one of his frequent Sunday School classes at Maranatha Baptist Church. “He called me on the phone and said he’d like to come worship with me. … He called and asked me if it would be all right.”
dean wanted permission to visit carter at church, called, and got it. sounds like an invitation for me. jimmy probably thought the proper definition of an invitation entailed initiative on his part (or in other words, that he would have to call him). I'd say this is more of a behind-the-scenes misunderstanding insinuatingly regurgitated than a lie.
but then again, I'm not desperate to smear dean.
posted by mcsweetie at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2004
“I didn’t invite him, but I’m glad he came,” the former President told reporters shortly before he conducted one of his frequent Sunday School classes at Maranatha Baptist Church. “He called me on the phone and said he’d like to come worship with me. … He called and asked me if it would be all right.”
dean wanted permission to visit carter at church, called, and got it. sounds like an invitation for me. jimmy probably thought the proper definition of an invitation entailed initiative on his part (or in other words, that he would have to call him). I'd say this is more of a behind-the-scenes misunderstanding insinuatingly regurgitated than a lie.
but then again, I'm not desperate to smear dean.
posted by mcsweetie at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2004
dean is a fluffer
So, with whom will our progressive lust actually be consumated? Please say Spitzer.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 4:23 PM on January 19, 2004
So, with whom will our progressive lust actually be consumated? Please say Spitzer.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 4:23 PM on January 19, 2004
dean wanted permission to visit carter at church, called, and got it. sounds like an invitation for me. jimmy probably thought the proper definition of an invitation entailed initiative on his part (or in other words, that he would have to call him). I'd say this is more of a behind-the-scenes misunderstanding insinuatingly regurgitated than a lie.
I highly doubt it. I'm not out to bash Dean either, but this is what he said: "When the former President of the United States asks you to go to church with him on a Sunday before the caucuses, I think you probably take that up." Dean is clearly stating that Carter asked him to attend church with him, implying--at least to me--some level of approval. In reality, Carter did no such thing. Dean called and asked to appear with Carter, and Carter, being a nice guy, agreed. Seems to me like Dean was trying awfully hard to wrangle an implied endorsement out of Carter that was a lot stronger than it really was. Is it on par with lying about WMDs? No, but it sure seems to be on the skeezy end of campaigning.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:30 PM on January 19, 2004
I highly doubt it. I'm not out to bash Dean either, but this is what he said: "When the former President of the United States asks you to go to church with him on a Sunday before the caucuses, I think you probably take that up." Dean is clearly stating that Carter asked him to attend church with him, implying--at least to me--some level of approval. In reality, Carter did no such thing. Dean called and asked to appear with Carter, and Carter, being a nice guy, agreed. Seems to me like Dean was trying awfully hard to wrangle an implied endorsement out of Carter that was a lot stronger than it really was. Is it on par with lying about WMDs? No, but it sure seems to be on the skeezy end of campaigning.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:30 PM on January 19, 2004
I think S@L has a point about the Bush-bashing on Mefi. He gets bashed here a lot, and rightly so. Dean should be bashed too if he lies. We need such things pointed out, so that we know the character and behavior of our elected officials. What we need is honesty in that office, for once. Just plain, simple, honesty.
Still, if this is the worst the man can do then I would be willing to become a born-again Baptist if it meant him getting elected and running the current president out of office.
posted by moonbiter at 6:30 PM on January 19, 2004
Still, if this is the worst the man can do then I would be willing to become a born-again Baptist if it meant him getting elected and running the current president out of office.
posted by moonbiter at 6:30 PM on January 19, 2004
NewsFilter
oh, and anyway Dean got his ass kicked pretty bad in Iowa -- looks like he's coming in third after Kerry and Edwards.
The Carter thing didn't help that much, probably.
Or, Iowa Democrats read MeFi in droves and Linnwood's Dean-bashing influenced them a lot. who knows.
posted by matteo at 6:40 PM on January 19, 2004
This story isn't dead yet...
Chris Matthews just had Howard Dean on for his concession "we aren't finished yet speech."
In that speech, Dean noted that he recieved endorsements from "Harkin, Gore AND CARTER."
I'm sure that he will be compelled to make a "clarification" or backtrack.
But, as clear as day, Dean was just on Chris Matthews clearly suggesting that he had Carter's endorsement.
If it is true that he doesn't have it, this story may have more legs than one thinks. So perhaps all of the hypocritcal outrage directed towards Steve@ is a bit over-stated.....
posted by Seth at 6:48 PM on January 19, 2004
Chris Matthews just had Howard Dean on for his concession "we aren't finished yet speech."
In that speech, Dean noted that he recieved endorsements from "Harkin, Gore AND CARTER."
I'm sure that he will be compelled to make a "clarification" or backtrack.
But, as clear as day, Dean was just on Chris Matthews clearly suggesting that he had Carter's endorsement.
If it is true that he doesn't have it, this story may have more legs than one thinks. So perhaps all of the hypocritcal outrage directed towards Steve@ is a bit over-stated.....
posted by Seth at 6:48 PM on January 19, 2004
Dean really has you repubs scared, huh?
Looking at Iowa, it appears as though the dems are the ones that are frightened. Tee hee.
posted by MidasMulligan at 7:42 PM on January 19, 2004
Looking at Iowa, it appears as though the dems are the ones that are frightened. Tee hee.
posted by MidasMulligan at 7:42 PM on January 19, 2004
Care to justify that comment, Midas? After all, the Iowa contest is among Democrats.
posted by Vidiot at 7:54 PM on January 19, 2004
posted by Vidiot at 7:54 PM on January 19, 2004
Care to justify that comment, Midas? After all, the Iowa contest is among Democrats.
That's what I mean. He was blowing everyone away a couple of weeks ago, raising far more money than everyone else, and appeared to be the front-runner. Even early today, polls showed him at least 2nd, if not 1st (though his lead had been cut). He had proven quite effective at mobilizing the far left wing of the party ... but it remained to be seen whether the same rhetoric that enthused the far left would prove equally compelling to the vast middle, or whether (as more than one pundit believed might be the case) it might actually scare them off.
It's not just that he came in 3rd, its that his numbers wound up being so far behind the front-runner.
Republicans, by the way, are definately not afraid of Dean ... they'd love to run against him ... but it appears (at least tonight) as though the Democratic mainstream didn't think that would be such a good idea.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:15 PM on January 19, 2004
That's what I mean. He was blowing everyone away a couple of weeks ago, raising far more money than everyone else, and appeared to be the front-runner. Even early today, polls showed him at least 2nd, if not 1st (though his lead had been cut). He had proven quite effective at mobilizing the far left wing of the party ... but it remained to be seen whether the same rhetoric that enthused the far left would prove equally compelling to the vast middle, or whether (as more than one pundit believed might be the case) it might actually scare them off.
It's not just that he came in 3rd, its that his numbers wound up being so far behind the front-runner.
Republicans, by the way, are definately not afraid of Dean ... they'd love to run against him ... but it appears (at least tonight) as though the Democratic mainstream didn't think that would be such a good idea.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:15 PM on January 19, 2004
He had proven quite effective at mobilizing the far left wing of the party ... but it remained to be seen whether the same rhetoric that enthused the far left would prove equally compelling to the vast middle, or whether (as more than one pundit believed might be the case) it might actually scare them off.
I think this is exactly what happened. I was talking to my girlfreind (a centrist Democrat if there ever was one and someone who follows politics more closely than I do) what she thought of Dean. She said he put her off because of his "belligerent naivete."
I think Iowa Democrats are (correctly) more concerned with picking a candidate who has a chance at beating Bush (and thus allowing some policies to be implemented) than getting involved in ideological pissing contests with eachother. It just called being pragmatic.
posted by jonmc at 8:42 PM on January 19, 2004
I think this is exactly what happened. I was talking to my girlfreind (a centrist Democrat if there ever was one and someone who follows politics more closely than I do) what she thought of Dean. She said he put her off because of his "belligerent naivete."
I think Iowa Democrats are (correctly) more concerned with picking a candidate who has a chance at beating Bush (and thus allowing some policies to be implemented) than getting involved in ideological pissing contests with eachother. It just called being pragmatic.
posted by jonmc at 8:42 PM on January 19, 2004
Reading some of those pieces, I really don't understand why the democrats would want a candidate (as is argued in the Kerry verdict piece) who is very liberal. Right now, most people on the left will vote for whoever runs as a Democrat, so why not run someone in the middle- to appeal to swing voters- knowing the party base will go with whatever candidate is chosen?
Why not even run someone socially liberal/fiscally conservative? It seems like that would be the perfect opposition to Bush.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 PM on January 19, 2004
Why not even run someone socially liberal/fiscally conservative? It seems like that would be the perfect opposition to Bush.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 PM on January 19, 2004
Kerry sucks.
Like the lone voice that comes out of the crowd, with those hearing it, shrugging, what did that mean.
If a candidate is not fit, saying "sucks" is worthless. As you've have pointed the finger back at you; again what does he suck?( per your word "sucks") Sharing the issues that he is poor or sub par at seems a better comprehendible way.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:32 AM on January 20, 2004
Like the lone voice that comes out of the crowd, with those hearing it, shrugging, what did that mean.
If a candidate is not fit, saying "sucks" is worthless. As you've have pointed the finger back at you; again what does he suck?( per your word "sucks") Sharing the issues that he is poor or sub par at seems a better comprehendible way.
posted by thomcatspike at 8:32 AM on January 20, 2004
Why not even run someone socially liberal/fiscally conservative?
(A tumbleweed tumbles by ...)
Um, yeah, anyway the primaries have already started. (BTW, that describes libertarians.)
posted by krinklyfig at 11:23 AM on January 20, 2004
(A tumbleweed tumbles by ...)
Um, yeah, anyway the primaries have already started. (BTW, that describes libertarians.)
posted by krinklyfig at 11:23 AM on January 20, 2004
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it was predicted approximately 14 hours ago that you would be the one to post this steve! :-)
posted by quonsar at 11:56 AM on January 19, 2004