Rocket firing gunships vs. rock throwers?
October 3, 2000 10:44 AM Subscribe
Rocket firing gunships vs. rock throwers? Am I the only one who finds this stuff a bit disturbing? If it was any country other than Israel, wouldn't there be a completely different slant to the news stories?
"gunships vs. rock throwers?"
Get used to it. Once I gain power, it's going to be Orbital Lasers vs. fist-shakers. All Hail the New Regime and it's Glorious City-Destroying Weaponry!
...there is no problem on Earth that cannot be solved through the judicious application of overwhelming firepower...
posted by aramaic at 11:00 AM on October 3, 2000
Get used to it. Once I gain power, it's going to be Orbital Lasers vs. fist-shakers. All Hail the New Regime and it's Glorious City-Destroying Weaponry!
...there is no problem on Earth that cannot be solved through the judicious application of overwhelming firepower...
posted by aramaic at 11:00 AM on October 3, 2000
A cursory glance at this Israeli Online Newspaper gives the impression of even-handed journalism, where theoretically it should least exist.
"...there is no problem on Earth that cannot be solved through the judicious application of overwhelming firepower..."
Specifically, the overpopulation problem. (What 5 billion people?)
posted by ethmar at 11:08 AM on October 3, 2000
"...there is no problem on Earth that cannot be solved through the judicious application of overwhelming firepower..."
Specifically, the overpopulation problem. (What 5 billion people?)
posted by ethmar at 11:08 AM on October 3, 2000
For more balanced coverage of the current situation, check out Future TV (Lebanon), third from the top on this page. (direct links: Windows Media 56 & 100)
posted by johnb at 12:53 PM on October 3, 2000
posted by johnb at 12:53 PM on October 3, 2000
>If it was any country other than Israel, wouldn't there be a completely different slant to the news stories?<
what about ireland?
rcb
posted by rebeccablood at 1:09 PM on October 3, 2000
what about ireland?
rcb
posted by rebeccablood at 1:09 PM on October 3, 2000
I take issue with the characterization of the clash as "Rocket firing gunships vs. rock throwers". Take a look at the picture-- the "rock throwers" had gasoline bombs:
A Palestinian throws a gasoline bomb at a Jewish holy site in the West Bank during the sixth day of violent clashes between Israeli soldiers and Palestinians.
And:
Israeli soldiers exchanged fire with several Palestinians who shot at an outpost of an Israeli enclave following a funeral for a young protester killed earlier.
So, unless the "rock throwers" somehow had guns that fired rocks, *both* sides were armed. That being the case, I personally don't see the problem here-- other than the fact that two groups are trying to kill each other.
Look at it this way-- if you were on the line and people were taking random shots at you and lobbing gas bombs, how long would it be until you started shooting back, too? When you put guns into the hands of people in such tense environments, people ARE going to die. To my thinking the people holding the guns and the people throwing rocks/shooting at the ones with the guns are equally to blame.
posted by tsitzlar at 1:44 PM on October 3, 2000
A Palestinian throws a gasoline bomb at a Jewish holy site in the West Bank during the sixth day of violent clashes between Israeli soldiers and Palestinians.
And:
Israeli soldiers exchanged fire with several Palestinians who shot at an outpost of an Israeli enclave following a funeral for a young protester killed earlier.
So, unless the "rock throwers" somehow had guns that fired rocks, *both* sides were armed. That being the case, I personally don't see the problem here-- other than the fact that two groups are trying to kill each other.
Look at it this way-- if you were on the line and people were taking random shots at you and lobbing gas bombs, how long would it be until you started shooting back, too? When you put guns into the hands of people in such tense environments, people ARE going to die. To my thinking the people holding the guns and the people throwing rocks/shooting at the ones with the guns are equally to blame.
posted by tsitzlar at 1:44 PM on October 3, 2000
The Palestinians also have guns and aren't all just rock throwers. This is why there are real bullets used and not just rubber. The other point everyone has to understand is that Israel set up camp in that area only after world war two, which is very recently, and none of the arabs like it one bit. The Jews and the Arabs will never get along in that area.
posted by Zool at 3:48 PM on October 3, 2000
posted by Zool at 3:48 PM on October 3, 2000
Zool: "The Jews and the Arabs will never get along in that area."
Not true. A correct way to put it would be the refugee and displaced Jews from Europe are less inclined to get along with the Arab Muslims. (They are also less inclined to get along with African Jews. A few years ago the donated bloods of Ethiopean Jews were thrown out from blood banks. Some Rabbis also indicated that the Ethiopean Jews "shed a drop of blood" to "symbolize briss," even though they had kept Kosher all their life.)
There are significant Jewish population in Middle Eastern countries like Egypt and Iran. Local Arab Jews, though not the best friends of Arab Muslims, share a lot of cultural ties, which keeps their relationship relatively less tense. Jews in Iran routinely sell alcohol to Iranian upper class Muslims and have more social interraction than is reported in the west.
Ariel Sharon instigated this recent incident to further his own agenda. The political tide in Israel is shifting in favor of the Arab Jews (who were mostly working and middle class) from the elite European Settlers. Peress' lost presidential campaign was a major indicator of this.
The chemistry in Israel is rather difficult to understand for most of us who live in the safety of a foreign country. I have and still live in Jewish neighborhoods and have gone to school with Jewish kids. As a muslim, I have also had muslim friends (fewer in number than Jewish friends). Media can spin it anyway they like and we can debate till our fingers bleed from typing. This is a crisis which we will rarely understand unless we were born and raised there. A lot of my Jewish friends who have served in the Israeli Army openly admit that once there is peace in Israel, there will be more power struggles between various Jewish fractions and the balance of power will shift. Many current Jewish leaders in Israel find it necessary to keep the Palestinians around - that keeps these power struggles less pronounced.
posted by tamim at 11:01 PM on October 3, 2000
Not true. A correct way to put it would be the refugee and displaced Jews from Europe are less inclined to get along with the Arab Muslims. (They are also less inclined to get along with African Jews. A few years ago the donated bloods of Ethiopean Jews were thrown out from blood banks. Some Rabbis also indicated that the Ethiopean Jews "shed a drop of blood" to "symbolize briss," even though they had kept Kosher all their life.)
There are significant Jewish population in Middle Eastern countries like Egypt and Iran. Local Arab Jews, though not the best friends of Arab Muslims, share a lot of cultural ties, which keeps their relationship relatively less tense. Jews in Iran routinely sell alcohol to Iranian upper class Muslims and have more social interraction than is reported in the west.
Ariel Sharon instigated this recent incident to further his own agenda. The political tide in Israel is shifting in favor of the Arab Jews (who were mostly working and middle class) from the elite European Settlers. Peress' lost presidential campaign was a major indicator of this.
The chemistry in Israel is rather difficult to understand for most of us who live in the safety of a foreign country. I have and still live in Jewish neighborhoods and have gone to school with Jewish kids. As a muslim, I have also had muslim friends (fewer in number than Jewish friends). Media can spin it anyway they like and we can debate till our fingers bleed from typing. This is a crisis which we will rarely understand unless we were born and raised there. A lot of my Jewish friends who have served in the Israeli Army openly admit that once there is peace in Israel, there will be more power struggles between various Jewish fractions and the balance of power will shift. Many current Jewish leaders in Israel find it necessary to keep the Palestinians around - that keeps these power struggles less pronounced.
posted by tamim at 11:01 PM on October 3, 2000
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Want another? The mother lode.
It's interesting to compare the foreign press to American news outlets when a major incident like this is happening. Night and day, totally.
posted by ethmar at 10:57 AM on October 3, 2000