the end of den beste
August 31, 2004 4:27 PM Subscribe
"No matter what I write, and no matter what I say, there are always people who either think I was wrong, or think that there were things I left out and should have included. I've been putting up with that for two years, and I guess I'd gotten used to living with a low-level throbbing headache all that time... But for the last two weeks it's been gone. And I'm not so sure I want to go back to doing the activity which caused that headache... there's something wrong. I'm tired. Does this mean I'll never post again? Damned if I know. But it won't be soon."
This post was deleted for the following reason: No need for a steve bashing
Who's this Den Beste person?
posted by eyeballkid at 4:36 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by eyeballkid at 4:36 PM on August 31, 2004
Patient: Um, doctor, it hurts when I raise my arm like this.
Doctor: Duh, then don't raise your arm like that.
posted by fenriq at 4:39 PM on August 31, 2004
Doctor: Duh, then don't raise your arm like that.
posted by fenriq at 4:39 PM on August 31, 2004
Well, I dunno--I never heard of this guy before this post, but it does definitely ring true (to me) as a pretty heartfelt examination of how genuine debate on the intarweb hasn't really come close to its potential.
It comes out as a kind of broad indictment of human nature (or at least, of the nature of the humans who can and do frequent blog sites)--when the "barrier to entry" in the discourse gets really low, instead of a lot of meaningful feedback, you tend to get endless carping. It's hard to argue that point, and I can't say that it improves the nature of online discourse to just say, "Oh, boo-hoo" (althought that was entertaining).
My favorite point, though, was the one he made about the Belgian peasants...never heard that.
posted by LairBob at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2004
It comes out as a kind of broad indictment of human nature (or at least, of the nature of the humans who can and do frequent blog sites)--when the "barrier to entry" in the discourse gets really low, instead of a lot of meaningful feedback, you tend to get endless carping. It's hard to argue that point, and I can't say that it improves the nature of online discourse to just say, "Oh, boo-hoo" (althought that was entertaining).
My favorite point, though, was the one he made about the Belgian peasants...never heard that.
posted by LairBob at 4:50 PM on August 31, 2004
Only seven million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, nine hundred nintey-nine other self-aggrandizing blahg idiots to go.
posted by angry modem at 4:51 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by angry modem at 4:51 PM on August 31, 2004
I've learned something interesting: if you give away ice cream, eventually a lot of people will complain about the flavors, and others will complain that you aren't also giving away syrup and whipped cream and nuts.
USS Clueless is comparable to ice cream? Bombast is one of the 31 flavors? I'm so confused.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2004
USS Clueless is comparable to ice cream? Bombast is one of the 31 flavors? I'm so confused.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2004
angry modem, what about the self-deprecating blogs? Are those okay? Just so long as no one tries to be all uppity or anything?
I do agree that "debate" on the internet was stillborn. There's no debate between political divides, there's lots of snarky insulting and conclusion-proving-premise-proving-conclusion ridiculousness (damn, third time I've written that today) but not a whole lot in the way of engaged and engaging debate.
Which kind of sucks. It is possible to find little pockets of intelligent discussion here and there though. But its like finding a needle in a haystack in a tornado.
posted by fenriq at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2004
I do agree that "debate" on the internet was stillborn. There's no debate between political divides, there's lots of snarky insulting and conclusion-proving-premise-proving-conclusion ridiculousness (damn, third time I've written that today) but not a whole lot in the way of engaged and engaging debate.
Which kind of sucks. It is possible to find little pockets of intelligent discussion here and there though. But its like finding a needle in a haystack in a tornado.
posted by fenriq at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2004
$100 bucks says that if the Iraq war had gone the way he said it would, he'd still be posting.
posted by cell divide at 4:57 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by cell divide at 4:57 PM on August 31, 2004
Of course, he left here because no one agreed with him. Welcome to the wonderful one-sided word of political punditry.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:09 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by eyeballkid at 5:09 PM on August 31, 2004
Why does it matter to him so much whether people agree with what he says? I don't get it at all.
posted by reklaw at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by reklaw at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2004
He couldn't have taken Lileks with him?
posted by solistrato at 5:37 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by solistrato at 5:37 PM on August 31, 2004
FWIW, I usually agreed with him. We're a small, ragtag bunch here at MeFi, us conversa-neo-cons. I'll keep up the good fight!
posted by davidmsc at 5:42 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by davidmsc at 5:42 PM on August 31, 2004
Let me get this right... SDB is upset because he feels that he's toiling to get a message out there, and that the people are too nitpicky and frivolous to accept it?
Gandhi is laughing at you, dude… and Gandhi has a bullet hole where his chest should be, so he really has to want to laugh.
posted by dong_resin at 5:46 PM on August 31, 2004
Gandhi is laughing at you, dude… and Gandhi has a bullet hole where his chest should be, so he really has to want to laugh.
posted by dong_resin at 5:46 PM on August 31, 2004
Wow, it's like his in some kind of online fandom and has just announced that he's deleting his livejournal. Perhaps he's a 13 year old girl?
posted by Hildegarde at 5:47 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by Hildegarde at 5:47 PM on August 31, 2004
The lurkers support me in email
The lurkers support me, you see
The lurkers support me in email
So why are you so mean to me?
Lurkers, lurkers,
lurkers support me by mail, by mail
Lurkers, lurkers,
The lurkers support me by mail.
{to the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean"}
Self-important blogger decides It's All Too Much. In other news, you can buy stuff on the Internet!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:01 PM on August 31, 2004
The lurkers support me, you see
The lurkers support me in email
So why are you so mean to me?
Lurkers, lurkers,
lurkers support me by mail, by mail
Lurkers, lurkers,
The lurkers support me by mail.
{to the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean"}
Self-important blogger decides It's All Too Much. In other news, you can buy stuff on the Internet!
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:01 PM on August 31, 2004
Prickly and thin-skinned then, prickly and thin-skinned now.
But he certainly has the right to stop writing whenever he wants, for whatever reason or for no reason at all. Why is this the "best of the web" and worth posting on Metafilter? I suspect, rather, that it's just an opportunity to dump on him yet again, which hardly seems sporting.
posted by rushmc at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2004
But he certainly has the right to stop writing whenever he wants, for whatever reason or for no reason at all. Why is this the "best of the web" and worth posting on Metafilter? I suspect, rather, that it's just an opportunity to dump on him yet again, which hardly seems sporting.
posted by rushmc at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2004
We're a small, ragtag bunch here at MeFi, us conversa-neo-cons. I'll keep up the good fight!
We (are) -> I (will)
Self important much?
posted by rough ashlar at 6:17 PM on August 31, 2004
We (are) -> I (will)
Self important much?
posted by rough ashlar at 6:17 PM on August 31, 2004
Which kind of sucks. It is possible to find little pockets of intelligent discussion here and there though. But its like finding a needle in a haystack in a tornado.
posted by fenriq at 1:55 AM CET on September 1
I agree, lots of internet has never replaced one friend.
posted by plexi at 6:24 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by fenriq at 1:55 AM CET on September 1
I agree, lots of internet has never replaced one friend.
posted by plexi at 6:24 PM on August 31, 2004
Ahhh...I didn't realize this was an intra-MeFi pile-on.
posted by LairBob at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by LairBob at 6:40 PM on August 31, 2004
This isn't BoTW, but it has a lot of MeFi interest, surely? Probably ought to have been on MeTa in that case.
It's funny how no one ever says, "Well, I've gotten hate mail and other email disagreeing with me, so maybe I'm wrong."
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:42 PM on August 31, 2004
It's funny how no one ever says, "Well, I've gotten hate mail and other email disagreeing with me, so maybe I'm wrong."
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:42 PM on August 31, 2004
When I find myself agreeing with Ethereal Bligh and disagreeing with rough ashlar, I know I'm in a denbeste thread.
posted by keithl at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by keithl at 6:57 PM on August 31, 2004
Shorter Steven Den Beste: I hate you all. Especially France.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2004
posted by octobersurprise at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2004
Most political blogs suck, in part because they imitate more traditional media and are lorded over by one would-be all-knowing voice. It's just more punditry, with a little "comment" sections on the side. And punditry inspires more punditry. It's a vicious cycle. Even on some of the blogs I find useful, however, the comments sections are annoying not just for the counter-punditry, but their rampant me-tooism or suck-up-to-the-blog-proprietorism. If you want a real democratic community, some real in-depth discussion, you'd have to elect someone to be in charge, right? Or you'd have to just somehow come to consider one another equals (say, by knowing and respecting one another or laying down ground rules, maybe).
Anyway, what did den Beste expect after a while? It's like the Little Richard line, "If you don't want your picture taken, you got no business being a star." If you don't want tons of stupid e-mail, you have no business wanting to be a powerful Internet blog pundit.
posted by raysmj at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2004
Anyway, what did den Beste expect after a while? It's like the Little Richard line, "If you don't want your picture taken, you got no business being a star." If you don't want tons of stupid e-mail, you have no business wanting to be a powerful Internet blog pundit.
posted by raysmj at 7:06 PM on August 31, 2004
Because it's topical (and given this instance of a substantiated FPP), can I talk about my blog where I invite people to try and challenge me? (There's only a few instances of politics, but people seem to love to hate me.)
Can I ask the original poster to give a little background detail on why we should care? Seriously, there's nothing more infuriating than "intercommunity" banter. Let's work to make these FPP's approachable to the likes of people who don't devote much of their cyberlives to Metafilter history.
posted by Mach3avelli at 7:27 PM on August 31, 2004
Can I ask the original poster to give a little background detail on why we should care? Seriously, there's nothing more infuriating than "intercommunity" banter. Let's work to make these FPP's approachable to the likes of people who don't devote much of their cyberlives to Metafilter history.
posted by Mach3avelli at 7:27 PM on August 31, 2004
well. okay then.
if I make a political blog and then flame out in some spectacular fashion, will someone reward me with this? I hope to buy one for Doom 4...
posted by bargle at 7:42 PM on August 31, 2004
if I make a political blog and then flame out in some spectacular fashion, will someone reward me with this? I hope to buy one for Doom 4...
posted by bargle at 7:42 PM on August 31, 2004
« Older France | Somebody had to do it. Really. Newer »
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Cool.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:32 PM on August 31, 2004