Have you made any redundancies?
January 27, 2005 4:45 PM Subscribe
When Good Things Go American. Fans of The Office on the BBC may feel a redundacy after watching the NBC pilot.
"... I really hope it's a success because that will make me even more money!"
Ricky is nothing if not honest!
posted by anthill at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2005
Ricky is nothing if not honest!
posted by anthill at 5:03 PM on January 27, 2005
Now there's a case of trying to stay waaaaay too close to the source material. And in the process creating something absolutely unfunny and unwatchable. The American Coupling lasted, what, three episodes? I give this two. Just because the receptionist is cute.
posted by rushmc at 5:06 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by rushmc at 5:06 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
That's so incredibly lame. Reminds me of the shot-for-shot remake of Psycho in the 90s.
Steve Carell is a great comic actor, I'm surprised it comes off as so stupid.
posted by mathowie at 5:08 PM on January 27, 2005
Steve Carell is a great comic actor, I'm surprised it comes off as so stupid.
posted by mathowie at 5:08 PM on January 27, 2005
Steve's trying his best, but Dwight is no Gareth...
Wow, maybe the original is coloring my expectations, but this is really, truly flat and unfunny.
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:13 PM on January 27, 2005
Wow, maybe the original is coloring my expectations, but this is really, truly flat and unfunny.
posted by AlexReynolds at 5:13 PM on January 27, 2005
It's weird---some of our most classic sitcoms were based on British ones, but when stay too close to the original it never works. The US Red Dwarf pilot (available on p2p) is horrificly bad and unfunny.
posted by amberglow at 5:14 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by amberglow at 5:14 PM on January 27, 2005
Six shows only? Well, hell, the original only had 12, not counting the two specials. It was all that was necessary.
Question remains, is the translation any good? British critics dismiss US ability get the mindset (a major sweeping statement, given the passionate, if admittedly cultish, following the series has over here), but do not say if they had seen the US version or not.
Whatever. My expectations are low, but I'm extremely curious to see it now.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:22 PM on January 27, 2005
Question remains, is the translation any good? British critics dismiss US ability get the mindset (a major sweeping statement, given the passionate, if admittedly cultish, following the series has over here), but do not say if they had seen the US version or not.
Whatever. My expectations are low, but I'm extremely curious to see it now.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:22 PM on January 27, 2005
The US Red Dwarf pilot...
Dear gods, that was completed?
I shall hunt it down.
And those responsible shall pay!
posted by cosmonik at 5:25 PM on January 27, 2005
Dear gods, that was completed?
I shall hunt it down.
And those responsible shall pay!
posted by cosmonik at 5:25 PM on January 27, 2005
When they remade Coupling for the US, they used the same scripts and simply edited out every single funny part. Probably the same treatment will be given to this one.
posted by DrRobert at 5:28 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by DrRobert at 5:28 PM on January 27, 2005
Roseanne (Barr/Arnold) acquired the American adaptation rights to Absolutely Fabulous but was unable to progress the idea, reportedly because the networks were unhappy with the notorious nature of the comedy.
You think they would have picked up the hint back then, but noooo.
posted by riffraff at 5:29 PM on January 27, 2005
You think they would have picked up the hint back then, but noooo.
posted by riffraff at 5:29 PM on January 27, 2005
some info about it, cosmonik
US AbFab had potential--if it would have been on HBO or something.
posted by amberglow at 5:31 PM on January 27, 2005
US AbFab had potential--if it would have been on HBO or something.
posted by amberglow at 5:31 PM on January 27, 2005
My understanding is that only the first show hews to the original series -- futher shows will have different scripts. We'll see if that pans out.
posted by jscalzi at 5:36 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by jscalzi at 5:36 PM on January 27, 2005
Well some times they get it right. Of course, the Fawlty Towers attempts were awful. But, although I really like the caustic Alf Garnett, Archie Bunker in All In the Family shines over 'Til Death do us part. On the second try, Steptoe and Son was left in the dust by Sanford and Son. And, Three's Company really does supercede Man About the House. On the whole most other UK to US transfers have been toss ups (Too Close for Comfort, Dear John). Going the other way, I'd go with the U.S Version of Who's the Boss
posted by Duck_Lips at 5:50 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by Duck_Lips at 5:50 PM on January 27, 2005
amberglow - Thanks! The guy playing Lister was originally cast as Chandler on friends but turned down the role??? This gets stranger and stranger.
posted by cosmonik at 5:59 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by cosmonik at 5:59 PM on January 27, 2005
having never seen the u.k. version, i really enjoyed the u.s. pilot, silly as it was. maybe the rest of you just have too much prior exposure or too much cynicism. carell is great.
posted by Igor XA at 6:03 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by Igor XA at 6:03 PM on January 27, 2005
OK; I actually didn't think it was that bad. Carell is trying to be cringe-inducing, right? It's the entire point of the character. And he's great at it. I thought that the "Wazzup!" sequence was good: a nice American transplantation of the sense of the original series (and the way the Tim character trailed off "I still love that...after seven years....").
I don't know; it made me smile.
posted by mr_roboto at 6:04 PM on January 27, 2005
I don't know; it made me smile.
posted by mr_roboto at 6:04 PM on January 27, 2005
And, Three's Company really does supercede Man About the House
Only if you consider slapstick and googly eyes to be funny - which, generally, I don't. Possibly because of my british genetic structure. It certainly became more iconic, but I had no great fondness for the show or the cast until I saw Ritter blow a circuit in that Buffy episode where he plays the cyborg abusive-step-father-wannabe.
Other transfers? The only one springing to mind is Men behaving badly. Obvious UK win.
What was the british Who's the Boss?
posted by Sparx at 6:07 PM on January 27, 2005
Only if you consider slapstick and googly eyes to be funny - which, generally, I don't. Possibly because of my british genetic structure. It certainly became more iconic, but I had no great fondness for the show or the cast until I saw Ritter blow a circuit in that Buffy episode where he plays the cyborg abusive-step-father-wannabe.
Other transfers? The only one springing to mind is Men behaving badly. Obvious UK win.
What was the british Who's the Boss?
posted by Sparx at 6:07 PM on January 27, 2005
I found it pretty awful but I wonder how much of that is the genius of Gervais casting a long shadow over anyone else.
posted by chaz at 6:10 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by chaz at 6:10 PM on January 27, 2005
Wow. Even worse than the Burger King version.
Hey, some of those aren't so bad.
posted by panoptican at 6:22 PM on January 27, 2005
Hey, some of those aren't so bad.
posted by panoptican at 6:22 PM on January 27, 2005
Sparx: The Upper Hand with Joe McGann, Diana Weston and Honor Blackman. I didn't think it was too bad, though it's not something I'd ever rush home to watch ...
posted by kaemaril at 6:27 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by kaemaril at 6:27 PM on January 27, 2005
Igor, what the UK version had was magical. It was the only comedy I've ever watched that kept me on edge. You know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when someone at work is making an unfunny misogystic joke and a woman walks in? It was like that for a whole hour, an extended on-pins-and-needles feeling that was both creepy and funny at the same time.
It was absolutely brilliant, whereas the US version is just sort of a wacky standard sitcom, with some attempts made to made the viewer feel uneasy. But Ricky Gervais' version of the boss was just absolutely incredible.
I would suggest watching renting the UK series if you haven't seen it. It's truly original comedy you may never see again. The entire second season was almost painful to watch it was so unsettling.
posted by mathowie at 6:27 PM on January 27, 2005
It was absolutely brilliant, whereas the US version is just sort of a wacky standard sitcom, with some attempts made to made the viewer feel uneasy. But Ricky Gervais' version of the boss was just absolutely incredible.
I would suggest watching renting the UK series if you haven't seen it. It's truly original comedy you may never see again. The entire second season was almost painful to watch it was so unsettling.
posted by mathowie at 6:27 PM on January 27, 2005
Call me naive but why can't a major commercial network simply broadcast the original show here in what they call prime time? Why wouldn't it be a success? Seems remaking it, and poorly, guarantees failure these days.
Or is it a production make money thing?
posted by juiceCake at 6:37 PM on January 27, 2005
Or is it a production make money thing?
posted by juiceCake at 6:37 PM on January 27, 2005
You know that scene in Pee Wee's Big Adventure, where Pee Wee is watching the movie of his life?
The direction's all wrong. It just doesn't feel like a documentary. That ruins it. Everything is just broad enough to ruin the uneasy genius of the original.
Carrell's doing his best, but he's miscast in a show that shouldn't exist anyway.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:59 PM on January 27, 2005
The direction's all wrong. It just doesn't feel like a documentary. That ruins it. Everything is just broad enough to ruin the uneasy genius of the original.
Carrell's doing his best, but he's miscast in a show that shouldn't exist anyway.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:59 PM on January 27, 2005
If you watch network TV you need to shoot yourself.
What if I only watch it for football? Can I maybe just stab myself in the thigh?
posted by mr_roboto at 7:02 PM on January 27, 2005
What if I only watch it for football? Can I maybe just stab myself in the thigh?
posted by mr_roboto at 7:02 PM on January 27, 2005
It's too creepy and flat and true-to-life to be shown here without changes on network tv--sitcoms have to be formulaic, and have a certain amount of laughs and stuff.
posted by amberglow at 7:05 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by amberglow at 7:05 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
Tim was way cuter in the UK version.
posted by pikachulolita at 7:13 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by pikachulolita at 7:13 PM on January 27, 2005
I agree they should just show the original version, hell, the 'strange' accents make it funnier.
Of course, once this bombs the networks will give up on trying to bring english style comedy here on the assumption that Americans just don't get it, when the truth is we don't like crappy remakes.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:14 PM on January 27, 2005
Of course, once this bombs the networks will give up on trying to bring english style comedy here on the assumption that Americans just don't get it, when the truth is we don't like crappy remakes.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 7:14 PM on January 27, 2005
The way I see it, Brit's have long since stopped believing that we can replicate American comedy concepts and make them a success, and are perfectly happy to just watch the American originals.
What is it about the US media exec psyche that can't accept that a British hit will probably die on it's arse one translated to a US format. There's such a long standing precedent for it, that it beggars belief that they STILL try it.
It's the Britishness that is funny about British comedy.
posted by ldma at 7:17 PM on January 27, 2005
What is it about the US media exec psyche that can't accept that a British hit will probably die on it's arse one translated to a US format. There's such a long standing precedent for it, that it beggars belief that they STILL try it.
It's the Britishness that is funny about British comedy.
posted by ldma at 7:17 PM on January 27, 2005
I always thought the original was very artistic, and honest.... alot more than just 'funny' in any case. It's art.
So it's kind of like trying to make an 'american version' of any piece of art. The whole concept is flawed.
posted by Espoo2 at 7:26 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
So it's kind of like trying to make an 'american version' of any piece of art. The whole concept is flawed.
posted by Espoo2 at 7:26 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
ALLY ROSS says, "The problem is Britain celebrates sarcasm, ugliness and failure. Americans celebrate optimism, good teeth and success.
"We get The Office. They don't. Why? It is funny because of the misery and hopelessness of the situation and Americans would never be able to get their heads round this simple fact."
Beuh. The problem isn't that Americans are incapable of getting The Office - myself and all the Americans I know who have seen The Office, love it - but just that this American version tries too hard to copy the jokes from the original while simultaneously undermining the humor with bad casting and directorial choices. Uncomfortable humor is extremely delicate, and "dumbing down" the humor only makes it so that no one laughs.
Pity, because the suits then see ratings like this and think to themselves, "gawrsh, I guess nobody likes to see this kind of humor." No, we do, just don't fuck it up.
Another thought: the Tim replacement is abominable. He looks like an actor. He looks like an actor who'd belong in something like Good Morning Miami, except they rumpled his shirt, grew out his hair, and ta-da! now he's an everyman.
Grrrr. Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
On preview: what furiousxgeorge said.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:28 PM on January 27, 2005
"We get The Office. They don't. Why? It is funny because of the misery and hopelessness of the situation and Americans would never be able to get their heads round this simple fact."
Beuh. The problem isn't that Americans are incapable of getting The Office - myself and all the Americans I know who have seen The Office, love it - but just that this American version tries too hard to copy the jokes from the original while simultaneously undermining the humor with bad casting and directorial choices. Uncomfortable humor is extremely delicate, and "dumbing down" the humor only makes it so that no one laughs.
Pity, because the suits then see ratings like this and think to themselves, "gawrsh, I guess nobody likes to see this kind of humor." No, we do, just don't fuck it up.
Another thought: the Tim replacement is abominable. He looks like an actor. He looks like an actor who'd belong in something like Good Morning Miami, except they rumpled his shirt, grew out his hair, and ta-da! now he's an everyman.
Grrrr. Wrong wrong wrong wrong.
On preview: what furiousxgeorge said.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:28 PM on January 27, 2005
There's a wonderful kind of weirdness to this. US TV execs think that Americans won't accept a downbeat, caustic, and very funny show because it's British. They remake it without the funniness and it still bombs because it's downbeat and caustic.
posted by QuietDesperation at 7:29 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by QuietDesperation at 7:29 PM on January 27, 2005
It's terrible. You can't get lost in it and believe that you're watching a documentary. Everyone's obviously acting and the viewer is painfully aware of it.
The original was fantastic largely because of the details-- short glances at the camera to let us know they were self-conscious subjects being filmed and the like. These people just aren't convincing.
For instance, I just watched the American Dawn character deliver the line about "I don't think it's every girl's dream to be a receptionist." The original Dawn looked reflective and sad when she said it and you felt for her. Who ever directed this piece of crap had the actress look and sound hopeful, so she just seems naive and stupid (and with bad timing on top of that.)
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:55 PM on January 27, 2005
The original was fantastic largely because of the details-- short glances at the camera to let us know they were self-conscious subjects being filmed and the like. These people just aren't convincing.
For instance, I just watched the American Dawn character deliver the line about "I don't think it's every girl's dream to be a receptionist." The original Dawn looked reflective and sad when she said it and you felt for her. Who ever directed this piece of crap had the actress look and sound hopeful, so she just seems naive and stupid (and with bad timing on top of that.)
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:55 PM on January 27, 2005
I'm a huge Office fan, but I had to turn on the subtitles to understand half of what was going on (I'm American). And then pore over the internet to find the meanings of the British-slang in jokes. I also tried playing the dvd in the lounge at school, and I remember one guy echoing what's been said above, commenting that these kind of movies were either boring or painful to watch (he was making a general point about Chris Guest and Harry Shearer movies, he thought the Office was done by the same people). Some people just don't get it per se.
But I'll second the fact that the perennial craptastic banality of remakes of great British television is what really ruins shows.
posted by ishmael at 8:03 PM on January 27, 2005
But I'll second the fact that the perennial craptastic banality of remakes of great British television is what really ruins shows.
posted by ishmael at 8:03 PM on January 27, 2005
Keep in mind that a remake rarely succeeds in any context, not just dupes of British sitcoms. Art is only art if it's original. Otherwise it's just crass commercialism -- simple as that.
posted by randomstriker at 8:03 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by randomstriker at 8:03 PM on January 27, 2005
I know the originals by heart, so that makes it really hard to watch a remake...
posted by cell divide at 8:07 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by cell divide at 8:07 PM on January 27, 2005
Anyone see Finding Neverland? I swear the best part was Gareth as the usher. I would have been surprised to see him if I hadn't known that it had been shot in 2002, before The Office hit the US in 2004.
And that guy who plays the American Gareth, Rainn Wilson? Played one of the creepiest characters from Six Feet Under. He was very uncomfortable and innapropriate on SFU, so I'd think he'd be a natural at this.
One big difference though (and I haven't seen the US version, I don't know if it will ruin the original for me), the original mostly made me think that it was a real office. I know the actors on the US version are actors, and just another crap NBC show. The original really felt like an office, not a crappy TV show, that is part of the reason why it was so painfully amazing to watch.
posted by scazza at 8:08 PM on January 27, 2005
And that guy who plays the American Gareth, Rainn Wilson? Played one of the creepiest characters from Six Feet Under. He was very uncomfortable and innapropriate on SFU, so I'd think he'd be a natural at this.
One big difference though (and I haven't seen the US version, I don't know if it will ruin the original for me), the original mostly made me think that it was a real office. I know the actors on the US version are actors, and just another crap NBC show. The original really felt like an office, not a crappy TV show, that is part of the reason why it was so painfully amazing to watch.
posted by scazza at 8:08 PM on January 27, 2005
It was the only comedy I've ever watched that kept me on edge. You know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when someone at work is making an unfunny misogystic joke and a woman walks in? It was like that for a whole hour, an extended on-pins-and-needles feeling that was both creepy and funny at the same time.
Have you seen Curb Your Enthusiasm? It's got a similar thing going on, though it's maybe not as consistently uncomfortable.
I agree that Ricky Gervais is pretty much irreplaceable as the boss. But that may go for the whole first season cast, all the way down to the guy who played Keith.
posted by pitchblende at 8:13 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
Have you seen Curb Your Enthusiasm? It's got a similar thing going on, though it's maybe not as consistently uncomfortable.
I agree that Ricky Gervais is pretty much irreplaceable as the boss. But that may go for the whole first season cast, all the way down to the guy who played Keith.
posted by pitchblende at 8:13 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
I'm a big fan of the Office. And I didn't think this version was a complete disgrace. The couple of familiar actors did make it feel less documentary, but there were nice touches that suggested to me that it could turn out all right -- especially if jscalzi's understanding (that later episodes will have original script) is correct. I thought the Tim character's read of the "I'm boring myself just talking about it" monologue was solid -- taking away the real Tim's blokishness and replacing it with fratty/whitehatness, which I think is spot-on. I wasn't paying great attention to Dawn/Pam's no-little-girl speech but when she talked about doing watercolors I found it very documentaryish that they showed her using Wite-Out on a document. That gave a chuckle that I don't remember from the original.
And after Six Feet Under Rainn Wilson can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned.
It was definitely weird to be so familiar with the script and feel this constant push-pull of divergences and verbatim repetitions. Nothing humans create in the future will ever be as good as the original Office, but if I saw the American office out of the blue I might think it was pretty bold and funny and groundbreaking. Or I might think mockumentary played badly among the glut of reality TV. But I'd take this version over the Apprentice any day.
Then again, I was really interested in seeing Gus Van Sant's Psycho, and I did think it was successful as an experiment -- not that it was a great movie, but that it answered some questions I had about how much distance black-and-white movies with old actors put between me and a movie-as-directorial-effort. I never saw Coupling but I don't suppose I would have watched the UK version either.
posted by xueexueg at 8:31 PM on January 27, 2005
And after Six Feet Under Rainn Wilson can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned.
It was definitely weird to be so familiar with the script and feel this constant push-pull of divergences and verbatim repetitions. Nothing humans create in the future will ever be as good as the original Office, but if I saw the American office out of the blue I might think it was pretty bold and funny and groundbreaking. Or I might think mockumentary played badly among the glut of reality TV. But I'd take this version over the Apprentice any day.
Then again, I was really interested in seeing Gus Van Sant's Psycho, and I did think it was successful as an experiment -- not that it was a great movie, but that it answered some questions I had about how much distance black-and-white movies with old actors put between me and a movie-as-directorial-effort. I never saw Coupling but I don't suppose I would have watched the UK version either.
posted by xueexueg at 8:31 PM on January 27, 2005
the original Coupling is actually really good--very well-written, and great acting. It's on BBCAmerica here.
posted by amberglow at 8:33 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by amberglow at 8:33 PM on January 27, 2005
It's truly original comedy you may never see again. The entire second season was almost painful to watch it was so unsettling.
I've never understood comedy (I'll avoid scare quotes) of this kind. I actively avoid that uncomfortable squirming feeling in my interactions with people, and entertainment that consists of watching others (even actors) go through it, presented as teh funney -- that's always bewildered me a bit. But tastes differ, this is true.
I've never actually seen the series, though, so I might download a couple of eps to check it out.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:34 PM on January 27, 2005
I've never understood comedy (I'll avoid scare quotes) of this kind. I actively avoid that uncomfortable squirming feeling in my interactions with people, and entertainment that consists of watching others (even actors) go through it, presented as teh funney -- that's always bewildered me a bit. But tastes differ, this is true.
I've never actually seen the series, though, so I might download a couple of eps to check it out.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:34 PM on January 27, 2005
I'm down on the British The Office. Watched the entire first season, and just found it crushingly sad (potential SPOILER: especially the end when it seems a character becomes what he most hates), with nothing that made me laugh, at all.
Loved season 1 and most of season 2 of BBC's Coupling. Fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Turned off by The Office.
posted by NortonDC at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2005
Loved season 1 and most of season 2 of BBC's Coupling. Fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Turned off by The Office.
posted by NortonDC at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2005
Here's how fast this goes wrong: in the first scene Carell says "If you think she's cute now, you should have seen her a couple of years ago" and "Pam" says "What?!" - Dawn would never have reacted. The whole point was that everyone in the office was too worn down by the drudgery and inanity of their jobs to challenge Brent's horrifying misogyny and other casual cruelties. Because that's what really happens in every office in the world all the fucking time.
I like Coupling too and am glad I never saw our version.
posted by nicwolff at 8:57 PM on January 27, 2005
I like Coupling too and am glad I never saw our version.
posted by nicwolff at 8:57 PM on January 27, 2005
Is it me or is the timing way off?
The original let you wallow in uncomfortable silence while this seems to just plow forward, and the pathetic qualities of pseudoBrent suffer as a result.
And as for this having echoes of the Psycho remake, Correll is doing his best to create a new character despite having to deliver the script mostly verbatim. PseudoTim, however, stealing the mannerisms of Martin Freeman is infuriating.
posted by unsupervised at 8:58 PM on January 27, 2005
The original let you wallow in uncomfortable silence while this seems to just plow forward, and the pathetic qualities of pseudoBrent suffer as a result.
And as for this having echoes of the Psycho remake, Correll is doing his best to create a new character despite having to deliver the script mostly verbatim. PseudoTim, however, stealing the mannerisms of Martin Freeman is infuriating.
posted by unsupervised at 8:58 PM on January 27, 2005
Start to finish, the Office is the best television program (comedy, drama, reality, whatever) that I have ever seen. It's incredibly funny at times and by the end of season 2 and especially the specials, it's unbelievably sad and touching.
Unlike most shows you actually feel like you know these characters and really feel for them. It's really one of thos "I laughed, I cried" situations.
Off course my grandparents are Welsh, so perhaps I have some sort of genetic predisposition.
posted by untuckedshirts at 9:03 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
Unlike most shows you actually feel like you know these characters and really feel for them. It's really one of thos "I laughed, I cried" situations.
Off course my grandparents are Welsh, so perhaps I have some sort of genetic predisposition.
posted by untuckedshirts at 9:03 PM on January 27, 2005 [1 favorite]
You know what was missing from that? The whole "testicle cancer" thing, which, IMHO was the funniest fucking scene on any television show, ever.
I wanted this to be a better show than it was. Not better than the original, but...you know...good.
It wasn't.
posted by ColdChef at 9:08 PM on January 27, 2005
I wanted this to be a better show than it was. Not better than the original, but...you know...good.
It wasn't.
posted by ColdChef at 9:08 PM on January 27, 2005
Have the Yes, Minister series been remade, for the US? Somehow, I don't think even that would work.
posted by Gyan at 9:30 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by Gyan at 9:30 PM on January 27, 2005
Have the Yes, Minister series been remade, for the US? Somehow, I don't think even that would work.
I can't see how that would work...does the notion of a "nuetral" civil service translate to the US? I was under the impression that government staffers were all political appointees, that the US didn't have any Sir Humphrey equivalents. I could be wrong of course.
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:40 PM on January 27, 2005
I can't see how that would work...does the notion of a "nuetral" civil service translate to the US? I was under the impression that government staffers were all political appointees, that the US didn't have any Sir Humphrey equivalents. I could be wrong of course.
posted by Infinite Jest at 9:40 PM on January 27, 2005
who cares, we don't need another shitty remake. i'm watching this american office and it's awful. the changes they made are bizarre and the different references that the boss makes just aren't as funny as brents.
other major problems:
-NO chemistry between the Tim and Dawn.
-Steve Carrell just isn't very funny in this and I usually really like him.
-it doesn't seem very awkward. I guess it's just that they're trying to make a normal sitcom from the Office source matierial, but they don't leave any of the awkward pauses that made the Office great.
There was never any "jokes" per se on the office (other than Brents horrible ones), it was the awkward pauses after interactions when everyone always busted out laughing.
I would say that the acting wasn't great, but it may be because I already know all the lines, so I guess it would take someone who hadn't seen the original to judge.
One final gripe: I grew really attatched to the Office theme music. Couldn't they have at least kept that!?
posted by untuckedshirts at 9:57 PM on January 27, 2005
other major problems:
-NO chemistry between the Tim and Dawn.
-Steve Carrell just isn't very funny in this and I usually really like him.
-it doesn't seem very awkward. I guess it's just that they're trying to make a normal sitcom from the Office source matierial, but they don't leave any of the awkward pauses that made the Office great.
There was never any "jokes" per se on the office (other than Brents horrible ones), it was the awkward pauses after interactions when everyone always busted out laughing.
I would say that the acting wasn't great, but it may be because I already know all the lines, so I guess it would take someone who hadn't seen the original to judge.
One final gripe: I grew really attatched to the Office theme music. Couldn't they have at least kept that!?
posted by untuckedshirts at 9:57 PM on January 27, 2005
...everyone in the office was too worn down by the drudgery and inanity of their jobs to challenge Brent's horrifying misogyny and other casual cruelties. Because that's what really happens in every office in the world all the fucking time.
The falsehood of that statement may be illustrative of why it doesn't connect well for me. My last decade of office experiences have very little in common with those displays. Thankfully.
I guess that's a fair trade--being treated like a human being in exchange for not finding a sitcom funny. I can live with that.
posted by NortonDC at 10:05 PM on January 27, 2005
The falsehood of that statement may be illustrative of why it doesn't connect well for me. My last decade of office experiences have very little in common with those displays. Thankfully.
I guess that's a fair trade--being treated like a human being in exchange for not finding a sitcom funny. I can live with that.
posted by NortonDC at 10:05 PM on January 27, 2005
Have the Yes, Minister series been remade, for the US?
Can't think if it was done in U.S. --Sure it has been considered and unofficially stolen in some project. But, it was directly remade in Canada (Not my Department) and India.
Only if you consider slapstick and googly eyes to be funny ...
Yeah, I think it was Ritter's slapstick that I preferred in Three's Company. And, I think thought the women hotter, too (Both the replacements for Suzanne Somers, esp. Priscilla "Penthouse" Barnes).
You are so right, U.S. "Men Behaving Badly" was just bad.
I did hear once that there was to be a U.S. version of Father Ted. Can't imagine
posted by Duck_Lips at 10:21 PM on January 27, 2005
Can't think if it was done in U.S. --Sure it has been considered and unofficially stolen in some project. But, it was directly remade in Canada (Not my Department) and India.
Only if you consider slapstick and googly eyes to be funny ...
Yeah, I think it was Ritter's slapstick that I preferred in Three's Company. And, I think thought the women hotter, too (Both the replacements for Suzanne Somers, esp. Priscilla "Penthouse" Barnes).
You are so right, U.S. "Men Behaving Badly" was just bad.
I did hear once that there was to be a U.S. version of Father Ted. Can't imagine
posted by Duck_Lips at 10:21 PM on January 27, 2005
If you've watched the extras on the The Office DVD, you'll have seen Stephen Merchant describe Ricky Gervais as being exactly like his David Brent character in real life. i.e. insecure and bloody annoying, even if blessed with comic genius. And watching the extras, I don't think I'd ever be able to stand talking to Gervais for more than 5 minutes.
So maybe that's the secret: The Office succeeds because its actors don't actually have to act, they are just playing themselves. Although having seen Martin Freeman (who plays Tim) in several other BBC / Channel 4 productions, I can attest that he is a very gifted actor indeed.
posted by randomstriker at 10:31 PM on January 27, 2005
So maybe that's the secret: The Office succeeds because its actors don't actually have to act, they are just playing themselves. Although having seen Martin Freeman (who plays Tim) in several other BBC / Channel 4 productions, I can attest that he is a very gifted actor indeed.
posted by randomstriker at 10:31 PM on January 27, 2005
Father Ted USA:
In an isolated patch of land off the coast of Virginia, a rag-tag crew of lovable screw-ups try to make sense of the hectic modern world, while entertaining viewers with their twisted interpretations of religious morals. Special guest appearance by Dick Cheney as Father Jack.
posted by idontlikewords at 10:45 PM on January 27, 2005
In an isolated patch of land off the coast of Virginia, a rag-tag crew of lovable screw-ups try to make sense of the hectic modern world, while entertaining viewers with their twisted interpretations of religious morals. Special guest appearance by Dick Cheney as Father Jack.
posted by idontlikewords at 10:45 PM on January 27, 2005
NortonDC:
I guess that's a fair trade--being treated like a human being in exchange for not finding a sitcom funny. I can live with that.
Come on ... you really have to experience something before you think it's funny?
Damn... I've never even had a pie in the face. What's it like?
posted by Kloryne at 12:25 AM on January 28, 2005
I guess that's a fair trade--being treated like a human being in exchange for not finding a sitcom funny. I can live with that.
Come on ... you really have to experience something before you think it's funny?
Damn... I've never even had a pie in the face. What's it like?
posted by Kloryne at 12:25 AM on January 28, 2005
Kloryne: I dunno if you have to experience it, but that's the implication being made by scazza and nicwolff. NortonDC's comment is just in response to that implication: if what makes it funny is the similarity-to-real-life, perhaps the lack of similarity to NortonDC's is why NortonDC doesn't find it funny. If it's not the similarity-to-real-life that makes it funny, but something else, maybe there's a different reason for NortonDC's not finding it funny.
That is, I don't think NortonDC is saying you have to be experienced to find it funny. I think he/she is saying that if that's true, it explains NortonDC's response.
Completely separately: I watched both seasons, and enjoyed them, but didn't find them funny. It was more like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. Enthralling, but not funny. Absolutely Fabulous was just torture to watch, though. Spaced I found rather good.
I find it odd that everyone lumps British comedy together, though. Sam Kinnison, Friends, and the golden years of The Simpsons are all American comedies, but are vastly, vastly different. Sure, they may share some similarities, but they are more different than the same. In the same way, I have a hard time accepting that Monty Python, The Young Ones, The Office, and Spaced all share some quintessential feature of identity.
posted by Bugbread at 12:40 AM on January 28, 2005
That is, I don't think NortonDC is saying you have to be experienced to find it funny. I think he/she is saying that if that's true, it explains NortonDC's response.
Completely separately: I watched both seasons, and enjoyed them, but didn't find them funny. It was more like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. Enthralling, but not funny. Absolutely Fabulous was just torture to watch, though. Spaced I found rather good.
I find it odd that everyone lumps British comedy together, though. Sam Kinnison, Friends, and the golden years of The Simpsons are all American comedies, but are vastly, vastly different. Sure, they may share some similarities, but they are more different than the same. In the same way, I have a hard time accepting that Monty Python, The Young Ones, The Office, and Spaced all share some quintessential feature of identity.
posted by Bugbread at 12:40 AM on January 28, 2005
You just know that somewhere there is a TV executive trying to pitch an American remake of Little Britain
posted by fullerine at 1:48 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by fullerine at 1:48 AM on January 28, 2005
Is there nothing the U.S. will not/cannot fuck up?
posted by Optamystic at 1:49 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by Optamystic at 1:49 AM on January 28, 2005
One thing I find interesting is that in the UK, and presumably, in pretty much every other country, there are plenty of American films, dramas and sitcoms shown on television prime time. We're exposed to this Americanism from as soon as we start watching television.
Yet in America, they seem to have some sort of phobia about showing anything other than American made programs with American actors talking in American accents. (Received Pronounciation British accents are acceptable if you want a baddie.)
Why is this? Why am I able to watch Frasier, Malcolm in the Middle or CSI, whereas Americans have to look on some obscure channel to watch The Office, Coupling, etc. I wonder if this sort of cultural myopia helps explain why so many Americans seem ignorant of the world outside it's borders and often have difficulty understanding regional accents.
posted by salmacis at 2:20 AM on January 28, 2005
Yet in America, they seem to have some sort of phobia about showing anything other than American made programs with American actors talking in American accents. (Received Pronounciation British accents are acceptable if you want a baddie.)
Why is this? Why am I able to watch Frasier, Malcolm in the Middle or CSI, whereas Americans have to look on some obscure channel to watch The Office, Coupling, etc. I wonder if this sort of cultural myopia helps explain why so many Americans seem ignorant of the world outside it's borders and often have difficulty understanding regional accents.
posted by salmacis at 2:20 AM on January 28, 2005
I don't even know what to say. This was one of the worst things I have ever seen. It's up (down?) there with Stephen King's butchering of Lars von Trier's masterpiece Riget. America, what is wrong with you? Just stop, mkay?
Good post, though.
posted by mr.marx at 3:43 AM on January 28, 2005
Good post, though.
posted by mr.marx at 3:43 AM on January 28, 2005
I wonder if this sort of cultural myopia helps explain why so many Americans seem ignorant of the world outside it's borders and often have difficulty understanding regional accents.
Sometimes we have difficulty understanding our own regional accents, let alone foreign ones, sal. We rarely hear very thick deep-south accents on network tv.
Just as you guys are well-trained to accept US sitcoms and other shows on your main tv channels, we're well-trained in expecting formulaic standard fare on network, and edgier, more original stuff on cable. When cable wasn't as widespread or didn't even exist yet, the networks tried to take chances with edgy sitcoms and edgy characters--Soap, Grand, Molly Dodd, Buffalo Bill...even Kovacs in the 50s. Now they know that viewers expect anything that pushes any envelope to be on cable, and that that's not why they turn NBC on.
posted by amberglow at 5:07 AM on January 28, 2005
Sometimes we have difficulty understanding our own regional accents, let alone foreign ones, sal. We rarely hear very thick deep-south accents on network tv.
Just as you guys are well-trained to accept US sitcoms and other shows on your main tv channels, we're well-trained in expecting formulaic standard fare on network, and edgier, more original stuff on cable. When cable wasn't as widespread or didn't even exist yet, the networks tried to take chances with edgy sitcoms and edgy characters--Soap, Grand, Molly Dodd, Buffalo Bill...even Kovacs in the 50s. Now they know that viewers expect anything that pushes any envelope to be on cable, and that that's not why they turn NBC on.
posted by amberglow at 5:07 AM on January 28, 2005
nicwolff: Carell says "If you think she's cute now, you should have seen her a couple of years ago" and "Pam" says "What?!" - Dawn would never have reacted.
Except that Dawn did react in the British version, only the joke was different. Gervais said, and I paraphrase, "I think at one time or another every bloke in the office has woken up at the crack of Dawn," which I consider to be much more offensive (and therefore effective) than the appearance-crack made by Carell.
This is not the USian version of The Office that I was hoping to see:
posted by syzygy at 5:13 AM on January 28, 2005
Except that Dawn did react in the British version, only the joke was different. Gervais said, and I paraphrase, "I think at one time or another every bloke in the office has woken up at the crack of Dawn," which I consider to be much more offensive (and therefore effective) than the appearance-crack made by Carell.
This is not the USian version of The Office that I was hoping to see:
- Mayor Curley rightfully complains that the actors are not believable - I don't feel like I am watching a documentary, either. I feel like I am watching actors who want me to think I am watching a documentary.
- DrRobert's criticism that "...they used the same scripts and simply edited out every single funny part" is right on the mark.
posted by syzygy at 5:13 AM on January 28, 2005
I didn't think it was too bad, though it's not something I'd ever rush home to watch ...
are you implying that you would have rushed home to watch "who's the boss?" That is really really weird.
I wonder if this sort of cultural myopia helps explain why so many Americans seem ignorant of the world outside it's borders and often have difficulty understanding regional accents.
I live in NYC which about as international as America gets, and I always notice how much less isolated London feels - The UK is (sort of) part of a continent full of history and culture. America is wide open space and freedom & all that, but it is on the other side of the world, isolated, alone in many ways. I found this especially clear right after 9/11. Anyway, I would say yes, that in many ways we're pretty clueless about the rest of the world, though in the post 9-11, and also ubiquitous internet, world, we've become a little more aware. Maybe that'll continue.
US AbFab had potential--if it would have been on HBO or something.
I actually can't really imagine this. There's something about the smallness of the 'scene' in london that makes aging partying scenesters not seem completely random, whereas it seems like in the US it would just fall off the radar a bit... plus, we don't have a chain liquor store to live above.
posted by mdn at 5:27 AM on January 28, 2005
are you implying that you would have rushed home to watch "who's the boss?" That is really really weird.
I wonder if this sort of cultural myopia helps explain why so many Americans seem ignorant of the world outside it's borders and often have difficulty understanding regional accents.
I live in NYC which about as international as America gets, and I always notice how much less isolated London feels - The UK is (sort of) part of a continent full of history and culture. America is wide open space and freedom & all that, but it is on the other side of the world, isolated, alone in many ways. I found this especially clear right after 9/11. Anyway, I would say yes, that in many ways we're pretty clueless about the rest of the world, though in the post 9-11, and also ubiquitous internet, world, we've become a little more aware. Maybe that'll continue.
US AbFab had potential--if it would have been on HBO or something.
I actually can't really imagine this. There's something about the smallness of the 'scene' in london that makes aging partying scenesters not seem completely random, whereas it seems like in the US it would just fall off the radar a bit... plus, we don't have a chain liquor store to live above.
posted by mdn at 5:27 AM on January 28, 2005
Sex in the City actually stole some stuff from AbFab, mdn, just to name one show that did. I think what you're seeing as the smallness of the 'scene' re: London might be another example of that myopia, no? ; >
The characters are very recognizable and funny--even for here. It could have been a monster hit in the 90s, i think.
On a related note: we're in danger of losing Eastenders yet again over here
posted by amberglow at 5:45 AM on January 28, 2005
The characters are very recognizable and funny--even for here. It could have been a monster hit in the 90s, i think.
On a related note: we're in danger of losing Eastenders yet again over here
posted by amberglow at 5:45 AM on January 28, 2005
Some comments from a British fan of the BBC series:
Six shows only? Well, hell, the original only had 12...
That's true, but those 12 are spread over 2 season's, 6 each. The reason I guess they're proposing only six is because they are pretty much sticking to the original scripts word for word -- at least that seems to be the case judging from the first five minutes of the pilot.
On the strength of those five minutes -- no it doesn't seem to be as good as the BBC version, and I don't think anyone will be able to nail the cringe-inducing horror that Gervais can; but this pilot is a pretty faithful representation of the sort of performances that appeared in the BBC version. I don't really see that this is as bad as you all say it is, apart from the view that there's no point in making a facsimile when you can watch the original. The copy may have lost some definition but the likenesses are all there, though.
Makes me wonder how many people like it for the humour, and how many people like it because it's cool to like alternative British comedy, and now it isn't British. If I hadn't seen the BBC version, I'd be sticking with this for a while -- and I guess that's who it's made for: people who haven't seen the BBC version.
posted by nthdegx at 5:46 AM on January 28, 2005
Six shows only? Well, hell, the original only had 12...
That's true, but those 12 are spread over 2 season's, 6 each. The reason I guess they're proposing only six is because they are pretty much sticking to the original scripts word for word -- at least that seems to be the case judging from the first five minutes of the pilot.
On the strength of those five minutes -- no it doesn't seem to be as good as the BBC version, and I don't think anyone will be able to nail the cringe-inducing horror that Gervais can; but this pilot is a pretty faithful representation of the sort of performances that appeared in the BBC version. I don't really see that this is as bad as you all say it is, apart from the view that there's no point in making a facsimile when you can watch the original. The copy may have lost some definition but the likenesses are all there, though.
Makes me wonder how many people like it for the humour, and how many people like it because it's cool to like alternative British comedy, and now it isn't British. If I hadn't seen the BBC version, I'd be sticking with this for a while -- and I guess that's who it's made for: people who haven't seen the BBC version.
posted by nthdegx at 5:46 AM on January 28, 2005
On a related note: we're in danger of losing Eastenders yet again over here
Oh the horror...
nthdegx: What's wrong with showing the BBC version to those people who haven't seen the BBC version?
posted by salmacis at 5:56 AM on January 28, 2005
Oh the horror...
nthdegx: What's wrong with showing the BBC version to those people who haven't seen the BBC version?
posted by salmacis at 5:56 AM on January 28, 2005
You just know that somewhere there is a TV executive trying to pitch an American remake of Little Britain
Yeah, but no, but yeah. [/vicky]
I had the opportunity to see the most recent season of Little Britain. It was hilarious, but I don't see how they'll ever show it on BBCAmerica without chopping it to bits.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:12 AM on January 28, 2005
Yeah, but no, but yeah. [/vicky]
I had the opportunity to see the most recent season of Little Britain. It was hilarious, but I don't see how they'll ever show it on BBCAmerica without chopping it to bits.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:12 AM on January 28, 2005
On a related note: we're in danger of losing Eastenders yet again over here
By the way, Dishnetwork in the US shows Eastender episodes as pay-per-view, which I consider kind of odd for a soap.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:15 AM on January 28, 2005
By the way, Dishnetwork in the US shows Eastender episodes as pay-per-view, which I consider kind of odd for a soap.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:15 AM on January 28, 2005
What's wrong with showing the BBC version to those people who haven't seen the BBC version?
Nothing at all. There's a stratum of American society for whom the British accents might prove to be a barrier for, however. Not necessarily in terms of mere comprehension, either.
posted by nthdegx at 6:19 AM on January 28, 2005
Nothing at all. There's a stratum of American society for whom the British accents might prove to be a barrier for, however. Not necessarily in terms of mere comprehension, either.
posted by nthdegx at 6:19 AM on January 28, 2005
Yet in America, they seem to have some sort of phobia about showing anything other than American made programs with American actors talking in American accents.
Why is this? Why am I able to watch Frasier, Malcolm in the Middle or CSI, whereas Americans have to look on some obscure channel to watch The Office, Coupling, etc.
Why ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox don't show British shows directly is that the producers of American television networks are, for the most part, extremely risk-averse. You might find one or two "original" shows released by all the networks put together in a given year, and a bunch of more-or-less copies of things that seemed popular last year. Even if it's only a teeny bit "safer" to remake the show without the British cultural baggage attached, that's enough reason for them.
And it's just not very true in any case.
"Some obscure channel" usually means "Your PBS channel on Saturday night" or "on A&E, a fixture of every cable system known to man for at least 20 years and about as obscure as a supernova."
We didn't have any special cable anything, and certainly no "obscure" channels, but I nonetheless managed to grow up watching Monty Python, Dave Allen, Are You Being Served, Keeping Up Appearances, Absolutely Fabulous, Red Dwarf, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Dr Who, Tripods, Prime Suspect 1 through N, Blackadder through Blackadder Goes Forth, Mr. Bean, Not The Nine o' Clock News, The Young Ones, Fawlty Towers, Allo Allo, As Time Goes By, The Fall and Rise of Reginal Perrin, Vicar of Dibley, To the Manor Born, Yes Minister, Yes Prime Minister, Waiting for God, Ultraviolet, Spooks, and whatever that one was where a couple moved out to the country to get back to nature and lived next to some snobs. And I assure you that list is by no means exhaustive.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:55 AM on January 28, 2005
Why is this? Why am I able to watch Frasier, Malcolm in the Middle or CSI, whereas Americans have to look on some obscure channel to watch The Office, Coupling, etc.
Why ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox don't show British shows directly is that the producers of American television networks are, for the most part, extremely risk-averse. You might find one or two "original" shows released by all the networks put together in a given year, and a bunch of more-or-less copies of things that seemed popular last year. Even if it's only a teeny bit "safer" to remake the show without the British cultural baggage attached, that's enough reason for them.
And it's just not very true in any case.
"Some obscure channel" usually means "Your PBS channel on Saturday night" or "on A&E, a fixture of every cable system known to man for at least 20 years and about as obscure as a supernova."
We didn't have any special cable anything, and certainly no "obscure" channels, but I nonetheless managed to grow up watching Monty Python, Dave Allen, Are You Being Served, Keeping Up Appearances, Absolutely Fabulous, Red Dwarf, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Dr Who, Tripods, Prime Suspect 1 through N, Blackadder through Blackadder Goes Forth, Mr. Bean, Not The Nine o' Clock News, The Young Ones, Fawlty Towers, Allo Allo, As Time Goes By, The Fall and Rise of Reginal Perrin, Vicar of Dibley, To the Manor Born, Yes Minister, Yes Prime Minister, Waiting for God, Ultraviolet, Spooks, and whatever that one was where a couple moved out to the country to get back to nature and lived next to some snobs. And I assure you that list is by no means exhaustive.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:55 AM on January 28, 2005
Poor you, ROU -- a good deal of that British output is complete toilet. At least you didn't mention Benny fucking Hill.
posted by nthdegx at 7:08 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by nthdegx at 7:08 AM on January 28, 2005
Urf. I wasn't a huge fan of the original Office, but I recognized it as "good television." This was barely even "decent TV."
Now just imagine an American Blackadder. It could actually be good, but I don't know if the average American viewer is up enough on their own history to get it.
American Blackadder I: Colonies, the Revolution, and the Continental Congress. Blackadder (Paul Rudd? Vince Vaughn? Anyone with enough talent is likely too big for the role anyways. Maybe Andy Richter?) is the son of a major landowner who is trying to come out with still-yet-more land once his father, a Founding Father-type dies. Baldrick (Ed Helms?) is his bumbling indentured servant. Percy (I'd like to see Andre Royo, who played Bubbles on The Wire get more work) is a well educated house slave from Bermuda who is the father's righthand man and possible half-brother of Blackadder.
If that works, then more can be made...
American Blackadder II: Civil War. Blackadder is a Captain in the Union Army.
American Blackadder III: Wild West
American Blackadder III: Nixon Administration.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:23 AM on January 28, 2005
Now just imagine an American Blackadder. It could actually be good, but I don't know if the average American viewer is up enough on their own history to get it.
American Blackadder I: Colonies, the Revolution, and the Continental Congress. Blackadder (Paul Rudd? Vince Vaughn? Anyone with enough talent is likely too big for the role anyways. Maybe Andy Richter?) is the son of a major landowner who is trying to come out with still-yet-more land once his father, a Founding Father-type dies. Baldrick (Ed Helms?) is his bumbling indentured servant. Percy (I'd like to see Andre Royo, who played Bubbles on The Wire get more work) is a well educated house slave from Bermuda who is the father's righthand man and possible half-brother of Blackadder.
If that works, then more can be made...
American Blackadder II: Civil War. Blackadder is a Captain in the Union Army.
American Blackadder III: Wild West
American Blackadder III: Nixon Administration.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:23 AM on January 28, 2005
You know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when someone at work is making an unfunny misogystic joke and a woman walks in? It was like that for a whole hour, an extended on-pins-and-needles feeling that was both creepy and funny at the same time.
Thanks Matt! You are the only one who has been able to explain my reasons for hating The Office. ;)
I watched the entire first series. But what do I know. I hated Seinfeld, Survivor and, well, damn well nearly everything that has been on network tee vee for the last 8 years or so. Somewhat ironic, but I adore nearly everything else I have ever seen on BBC-America over the last 2 years since I got access to the channel.
What they need to do is show more Father Ted.
posted by terrapin at 7:34 AM on January 28, 2005
Thanks Matt! You are the only one who has been able to explain my reasons for hating The Office. ;)
I watched the entire first series. But what do I know. I hated Seinfeld, Survivor and, well, damn well nearly everything that has been on network tee vee for the last 8 years or so. Somewhat ironic, but I adore nearly everything else I have ever seen on BBC-America over the last 2 years since I got access to the channel.
What they need to do is show more Father Ted.
posted by terrapin at 7:34 AM on January 28, 2005
Poor you, ROU -- a good deal of that British output is complete toilet
Sure, which is why I never watched more than an episode or two of most of them, and I'd take out insurance against the possibility of being scarred by Are You Being Served ever again... dear Lord, I can still see those eyelids in my sleep.
But the assertion that Americans don't receive British shows in great frequency and on readily-accessible channels is simply and demonstrably false. It is, if you will, rubbish. You just don't see them on ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox.
At least you didn't mention Benny fucking Hill
I assume there's nowhere on the planet you can run (in oh-so-amusing Fast-Motion) to escape his vacant grin. There are undiscovered tribes in New Guinea who hate him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:44 AM on January 28, 2005
Sure, which is why I never watched more than an episode or two of most of them, and I'd take out insurance against the possibility of being scarred by Are You Being Served ever again... dear Lord, I can still see those eyelids in my sleep.
But the assertion that Americans don't receive British shows in great frequency and on readily-accessible channels is simply and demonstrably false. It is, if you will, rubbish. You just don't see them on ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox.
At least you didn't mention Benny fucking Hill
I assume there's nowhere on the planet you can run (in oh-so-amusing Fast-Motion) to escape his vacant grin. There are undiscovered tribes in New Guinea who hate him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:44 AM on January 28, 2005
Metafilter: At least you didn't mention Benny fucking Hill
BBCA shows that way way way too often. It's cringeworthy. (and Are You Being Served i actually like)
posted by amberglow at 8:03 AM on January 28, 2005
BBCA shows that way way way too often. It's cringeworthy. (and Are You Being Served i actually like)
posted by amberglow at 8:03 AM on January 28, 2005
whatever that one was where a couple moved out to the country to get back to nature and lived next to some snobs
The Good Life. Just so you know.
As an aside, the remakes are entertaining, albeit maybe not in the way they were intended. Does anyone know of somewhere I can see some more? I've never seen the American Steptoe and Sons or Men Behaving Badly, as examples.
posted by flameproof at 8:27 AM on January 28, 2005
The Good Life. Just so you know.
As an aside, the remakes are entertaining, albeit maybe not in the way they were intended. Does anyone know of somewhere I can see some more? I've never seen the American Steptoe and Sons or Men Behaving Badly, as examples.
posted by flameproof at 8:27 AM on January 28, 2005
Let's not forget that the British originals of The Office are also terrifically obscene, especially by American TV standards. What, exactly will be the equivalent to the moment when suddenly the entire office is listening to Brent's desperate outburst about how he'd do each the members of The Corrs from behind? Or the tower of small-minded filth that is Finchy? Not to mention, from the Special, the bit about blowing beans up the muff...
As with everything in the show, the obscene bits aren't incidental to the effect -- they take away the idea that a little vulgarity would clear the air.
posted by argybarg at 8:36 AM on January 28, 2005
As with everything in the show, the obscene bits aren't incidental to the effect -- they take away the idea that a little vulgarity would clear the air.
posted by argybarg at 8:36 AM on January 28, 2005
Ah yes, ROU_Xenophobe, we have popular cable/satellite channels in the UK as well. The likes of Sky One, E4 etc fill their scedules with American shows. The difference is that BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 4 and Five, which are your equivalent of ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox also happily show American imports.
Like it or not, those channels still command the majority of the TV viewing in both countries.
posted by salmacis at 8:45 AM on January 28, 2005
Like it or not, those channels still command the majority of the TV viewing in both countries.
posted by salmacis at 8:45 AM on January 28, 2005
Yes. Apparently the black man's cock sequence got the most complaints.
posted by nthdegx at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by nthdegx at 8:47 AM on January 28, 2005
I would like to see an American 'League of Gentlemen'. Trailer Park Boys is good, but not quite the same level of repulsion. Also Canadian.
Check out 'Peep Show' on BBCA for more cringetastic viewing. I love the funeral in series one.
Other great channel 4 programmes which may appear on BBCA include: Shameless and Green Wing. Although the likelyhood of Shameless reaching US screens would be not be significant.
The BBC have also produced The Smoking Room, based entirely in the, er, smoking room of a non-descript company. Worth a look. Do you even have smoking rooms in the US?
posted by asok at 8:49 AM on January 28, 2005
Check out 'Peep Show' on BBCA for more cringetastic viewing. I love the funeral in series one.
Other great channel 4 programmes which may appear on BBCA include: Shameless and Green Wing. Although the likelyhood of Shameless reaching US screens would be not be significant.
The BBC have also produced The Smoking Room, based entirely in the, er, smoking room of a non-descript company. Worth a look. Do you even have smoking rooms in the US?
posted by asok at 8:49 AM on January 28, 2005
Question about Peep Show on BBCA. How much is it edited? There's quite a lot of bad language, at least on the Channel Four original.
posted by salmacis at 8:52 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by salmacis at 8:52 AM on January 28, 2005
I didn't say you didn't get American shows, or that British shows are on in the US to the same extent that they are in the UK, now, did I? Nor was I foolish enough to say anything bad about the BBC, you'll notice.
You asserted that British shows were in some way unavailable or hard to find in the US. This is simply wrong. Mistaken. They're right there, big as life and twice as ugly, waiting to be watched. I can personally assure you of this, because I myself have seen many of them with my own beady little eyes.
To be sure, they almost certainly don't get as many viewers as there are of The Simpsons in the UK. But there's no "phobia" about showing people with accents talking about lorries and boots; PBS, A&E, and now substantial portions of the Discovery channel subsist primarily by buying shows from the BBC. They're there, even if fewer people tune into them, and they're generally popular.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:18 AM on January 28, 2005
You asserted that British shows were in some way unavailable or hard to find in the US. This is simply wrong. Mistaken. They're right there, big as life and twice as ugly, waiting to be watched. I can personally assure you of this, because I myself have seen many of them with my own beady little eyes.
To be sure, they almost certainly don't get as many viewers as there are of The Simpsons in the UK. But there's no "phobia" about showing people with accents talking about lorries and boots; PBS, A&E, and now substantial portions of the Discovery channel subsist primarily by buying shows from the BBC. They're there, even if fewer people tune into them, and they're generally popular.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:18 AM on January 28, 2005
So far, I'm the only person I know who really just can not stand watching The Office. Although I think a lot of it for me is that my stepfather could be David Brendt, they're so similar. And generally, if you live with something for twelve years, it becomes less and less funny as time goes on.
And really, I just can't stand watching anything on TV that makes me feel embarrassed for the characters. It's just too painful. And I don't think this has anything to do with my being American or not "getting" comedy (there's plenty of British comedy that I love - Keeping Up Appearances springs immediately to mind) so much as it's just personal preference.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:19 AM on January 28, 2005
And really, I just can't stand watching anything on TV that makes me feel embarrassed for the characters. It's just too painful. And I don't think this has anything to do with my being American or not "getting" comedy (there's plenty of British comedy that I love - Keeping Up Appearances springs immediately to mind) so much as it's just personal preference.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 9:19 AM on January 28, 2005
/OT I can't see The Good Life mentioned without remembering this, from The Young Ones:
VYVYAN: NO!! No! We're not watching the bloody Good Life!! !! I hate it!! It's so bloody nice! Felicity 'Treacle' Kendall and Richard 'Sugar-Flavored-Snot' Briars!! What do they do now?! Chocolate bloody Button ads, that's what!! They're just a couple of reactionary stereotypes, confirming the myth that everyone in Britain is a lovable, middle-class eccentric - and I - HATE - THEM!!...Did you see that episode where the pig was going to have a baby? Now, that was quite a promising idea. But it was all done so bloody nicely! We didn't see anything! Even the policeman was nice.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2005
VYVYAN: NO!! No! We're not watching the bloody Good Life!! !! I hate it!! It's so bloody nice! Felicity 'Treacle' Kendall and Richard 'Sugar-Flavored-Snot' Briars!! What do they do now?! Chocolate bloody Button ads, that's what!! They're just a couple of reactionary stereotypes, confirming the myth that everyone in Britain is a lovable, middle-class eccentric - and I - HATE - THEM!!...Did you see that episode where the pig was going to have a baby? Now, that was quite a promising idea. But it was all done so bloody nicely! We didn't see anything! Even the policeman was nice.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2005
Do you even have smoking rooms in the US?
i don't think we have those anymore--we definitely don't in New York.
Isn't Channel4 owned by different people than the BBC? or is it really BBC4? BBCA doesn't show things not BBC i don't think. Shameless looks great tho.
And speaking of dysfunctional families: That Braithwaite show (with the lottery winning mom, etc) is great--it could easily come to the US.
posted by amberglow at 10:10 AM on January 28, 2005
i don't think we have those anymore--we definitely don't in New York.
Isn't Channel4 owned by different people than the BBC? or is it really BBC4? BBCA doesn't show things not BBC i don't think. Shameless looks great tho.
And speaking of dysfunctional families: That Braithwaite show (with the lottery winning mom, etc) is great--it could easily come to the US.
posted by amberglow at 10:10 AM on January 28, 2005
You asserted that British shows were in some way unavailable or hard to find in the US
Er, no I didn't.
posted by salmacis at 11:18 AM on January 28, 2005
Er, no I didn't.
posted by salmacis at 11:18 AM on January 28, 2005
Speaking of "import TV", my wife and I much prefer the original British versions of What Not To Wear (we even ordered the WNTW book off amazon.uk before they published it here), and Changing Rooms (known in the US as Trading Spaces).
We find the American versions to be dumbed-down, vapid, and unwatchable.
posted by mrbill at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2005
We find the American versions to be dumbed-down, vapid, and unwatchable.
posted by mrbill at 11:59 AM on January 28, 2005
Isn't Channel4 owned by different people than the BBC? or is it really BBC4? BBCA doesn't show things not BBC i don't think.
Channel 4 is not part of the BBC, though like them it is a public broadcasting corporation. However BBCAmerica show non-BBC stuff. For example:
Cold Feet (ITV)
Black Books (C4)
Father Ted (C4)
So Graham Norton (C4)
posted by ninebelow at 12:12 PM on January 28, 2005
Channel 4 is not part of the BBC, though like them it is a public broadcasting corporation. However BBCAmerica show non-BBC stuff. For example:
Cold Feet (ITV)
Black Books (C4)
Father Ted (C4)
So Graham Norton (C4)
posted by ninebelow at 12:12 PM on January 28, 2005
I'm reminded of my last visit to the UK, when Simpsons was being hyped for it's C4 (i think) premiere. There was a fantastic billboard outside the Elephant & Castle tube, wherein Bart was writing, "Britain is not my War Bitch" on the chalkboard. I passed by a few days later and it had been altered to read "Flanders did not vote Twice" (this was a few days after the "unpleasantness") Even in promoting US shows, C4 shows more balls than any US network. =)
posted by idontlikewords at 12:24 PM on January 28, 2005
posted by idontlikewords at 12:24 PM on January 28, 2005
I can't see why they can't get The Office right in America - I always thought The Office owed a huge, huge debt to This Is Spinal Tap. Maybe if they'd used the same plot outlines but improvised the dialogue (like they do on Curb Your Enthusiasm) it might have worked better. Oh well...
posted by dodgygeezer at 12:25 PM on January 28, 2005
posted by dodgygeezer at 12:25 PM on January 28, 2005
mdn : are you implying that you would have rushed home to watch "who's the boss?" That is really really weird.
Good god, no. No, I was merely pointing out that TV shows fall into certain categories. 1) Programmes you'd make a point of getting home in time to watch 2) Programmes you'd not rush home to watch, but if you were at home at the time you'd make a point of watching 3) Programmes which, if you happen to have the TV on and set to the right channel you'd watch and 4) Programmes which, the moment you see them, you immediately switch the TV off or change the channel.
The Upper Hand, for me, was category 2. But then, I was very young at the time it was shown. Who's The Boss? Category 4, even at that early age :)
posted by kaemaril at 12:33 PM on January 28, 2005
Good god, no. No, I was merely pointing out that TV shows fall into certain categories. 1) Programmes you'd make a point of getting home in time to watch 2) Programmes you'd not rush home to watch, but if you were at home at the time you'd make a point of watching 3) Programmes which, if you happen to have the TV on and set to the right channel you'd watch and 4) Programmes which, the moment you see them, you immediately switch the TV off or change the channel.
The Upper Hand, for me, was category 2. But then, I was very young at the time it was shown. Who's The Boss? Category 4, even at that early age :)
posted by kaemaril at 12:33 PM on January 28, 2005
God help me, I watched the episode and, while it's obviously flat overall, there's still something strangely compelling at work. Pam/Dawn as an airhead is a terrible idea; Dwight/Gareth is overacting and is unattractive to watch; the dialogue sounds like it's in translation.
But really, Steve Carell is quite good, especially with what he's given. David Brent is sui generis among TV characters, but this copy is...not bad. I can actually imagine him developing in an interesting way.
They need to give the show its own chance to breathe and take its own shape. Something, as dodgygeezer points out, more along the Christopher Guest lines. It will probably never get that chance, though.
posted by argybarg at 1:09 PM on January 28, 2005
But really, Steve Carell is quite good, especially with what he's given. David Brent is sui generis among TV characters, but this copy is...not bad. I can actually imagine him developing in an interesting way.
They need to give the show its own chance to breathe and take its own shape. Something, as dodgygeezer points out, more along the Christopher Guest lines. It will probably never get that chance, though.
posted by argybarg at 1:09 PM on January 28, 2005
I didn't think this was awful. It has a kind of photocopy of a photocopy feel to it in which the subtlety and timing are off on top of the bizarro-Seinfeld feel of eveything not being exactly right. It's still better than Joey, Committed, Yes,Dear and just about every other sitcom on tv right now.
posted by Arch Stanton at 1:45 PM on January 28, 2005
posted by Arch Stanton at 1:45 PM on January 28, 2005
I see what you are saying argybarg and Arch S,
But.
The problem - for me - isn't just that "it's bad". (It is, but still)
The problem is - for me - is "WHY OH GOD WHY?"
Mostly, it's the conformation to some broad "stupid audience" I can't stand.
"You probably can't watch b/w film, let's make another Lolita"
"You probably can't read subtitles, let's make a new The Kingdom." (or Insomnia)
"You probably don't get all the jokes, let's make a new The Office." (or Coupling)
I mean:
1. Why the fuck do you have to 'translate' art anyway? What's next, Venus de Milo in a thong?
This is one of my pet capitalism peeves: A price tag on everything. It's the market, stupid.
2. How much do you think of your audience when you have to do these 'translations'? Aren't they pretty much asuming that their audience are incapable of a) understanding dialects, or b) reading?
Ok same answer as above, but still. It's so sad.
Sorry for the rant, but things like this just pisses me off.
posted by mr.marx at 3:53 PM on January 28, 2005 [1 favorite]
But.
The problem - for me - isn't just that "it's bad". (It is, but still)
The problem is - for me - is "WHY OH GOD WHY?"
Mostly, it's the conformation to some broad "stupid audience" I can't stand.
"You probably can't watch b/w film, let's make another Lolita"
"You probably can't read subtitles, let's make a new The Kingdom." (or Insomnia)
"You probably don't get all the jokes, let's make a new The Office." (or Coupling)
I mean:
1. Why the fuck do you have to 'translate' art anyway? What's next, Venus de Milo in a thong?
This is one of my pet capitalism peeves: A price tag on everything. It's the market, stupid.
2. How much do you think of your audience when you have to do these 'translations'? Aren't they pretty much asuming that their audience are incapable of a) understanding dialects, or b) reading?
Ok same answer as above, but still. It's so sad.
Sorry for the rant, but things like this just pisses me off.
posted by mr.marx at 3:53 PM on January 28, 2005 [1 favorite]
The pilot clip has been taken down. Does anyone have a working link?
posted by Juicylicious at 4:55 PM on January 28, 2005
posted by Juicylicious at 4:55 PM on January 28, 2005
bugbread:
That is, I don't think NortonDC is saying you have to be experienced to find it funny. I think he/she is saying that if that's true, it explains NortonDC's response.
Ah ha -- Yes. Now I see! Thanks for the explanation. Makes me want to send a load of emails from my boss to you. I could certainly use more help...
NortonDC -- gotcha.
posted by Kloryne at 7:28 PM on January 28, 2005
That is, I don't think NortonDC is saying you have to be experienced to find it funny. I think he/she is saying that if that's true, it explains NortonDC's response.
Ah ha -- Yes. Now I see! Thanks for the explanation. Makes me want to send a load of emails from my boss to you. I could certainly use more help...
NortonDC -- gotcha.
posted by Kloryne at 7:28 PM on January 28, 2005
Mr. Marx, I agree with you. This remake is completely unnecessary and useless. However, at the same time, this pale, idiotic remake is still better than most primetime sitcoms. I still wish it wasn't made.
posted by Arch Stanton at 8:46 PM on January 28, 2005
posted by Arch Stanton at 8:46 PM on January 28, 2005
First they butcher The Office and now they're remaking Peep Show?! Un-fucking-believeable. I don't see how this is going to be possible. What sets Peep Show apart is its outrageousness. Take out the naughty bits and what do you have?
Oddly enough, The Office was my favorite show of the last 10 years, but I cannot watch Curb Your Enthusiasm. Somehow the latter just goes over the line of uncomfortable for me, whereas Office was a great balancing act.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on January 29, 2005
Oddly enough, The Office was my favorite show of the last 10 years, but I cannot watch Curb Your Enthusiasm. Somehow the latter just goes over the line of uncomfortable for me, whereas Office was a great balancing act.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:10 PM on January 29, 2005
The horror, the horror.
This month's Esquire has a great set of profiles and interviews with 'Britain's funniest men'. Graham Linehan (the man responsible for Father Ted, Big Train and Ted-and-Ralph from The Fast Show) said something that's relevant here: write about characters, and you'll create types; write about types, and you'll create nothing. The problem with remaking something is that by trying to 'translate' a role, you end up writing about the type and not the character.
Also, Americans really do have trouble with writing and performing for television the comedy of humiliation and embarrassment at which the British excel. (One obvious exception: Frasier. But even that's a diluted, ultimately affirmative structure, a kind of watered-down Whitehall farce.) I don't think anyone's ever contemplated an American version of Alan Partridge.
You just know that somewhere there is a TV executive trying to pitch an American remake of Little Britain
Judging from the decline of the current series -- yes, I liked it better on the radio -- I'd say Lucas and Walliams are already courting America in a perverse way. Of course, a 'Dafydd' who's turned into Billy-Bob from Arkansas would likely have a short lifespan as the only gay in his village.
posted by riviera at 8:29 AM on January 31, 2005
This month's Esquire has a great set of profiles and interviews with 'Britain's funniest men'. Graham Linehan (the man responsible for Father Ted, Big Train and Ted-and-Ralph from The Fast Show) said something that's relevant here: write about characters, and you'll create types; write about types, and you'll create nothing. The problem with remaking something is that by trying to 'translate' a role, you end up writing about the type and not the character.
Also, Americans really do have trouble with writing and performing for television the comedy of humiliation and embarrassment at which the British excel. (One obvious exception: Frasier. But even that's a diluted, ultimately affirmative structure, a kind of watered-down Whitehall farce.) I don't think anyone's ever contemplated an American version of Alan Partridge.
You just know that somewhere there is a TV executive trying to pitch an American remake of Little Britain
Judging from the decline of the current series -- yes, I liked it better on the radio -- I'd say Lucas and Walliams are already courting America in a perverse way. Of course, a 'Dafydd' who's turned into Billy-Bob from Arkansas would likely have a short lifespan as the only gay in his village.
posted by riviera at 8:29 AM on January 31, 2005
I just recall that The Royle Family was re-made as The Kennedys (which was quickly cancelled). Horrible.
posted by Duck_Lips at 1:37 PM on February 22, 2005
posted by Duck_Lips at 1:37 PM on February 22, 2005
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posted by adrianhon at 4:54 PM on January 27, 2005