The Velvet Vulva
March 21, 2005 1:58 PM Subscribe
At her wedding, Carol had the rings extracted from the Velvet Vulva, the purse with petals (embedded QT?) seen, apparently, at RenFest's everywhere. Don't worry, fellas, the G-string pouches are "coming soon."
I guess you could argue it goes without saying, but, umm..."NSFW"?
posted by ChrisTN at 2:10 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by ChrisTN at 2:10 PM on March 21, 2005
Midi in the third link.
My only other comment is that the girls weren't as fat as I would expect from a renaissance fair.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:14 PM on March 21, 2005
My only other comment is that the girls weren't as fat as I would expect from a renaissance fair.
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:14 PM on March 21, 2005
I'm glad over-compensating for being uninteresting is no longer just limited to paunchy bald middle-aged men in fast sports cars.
I'm torn on whether it's good to facilitate mating by Ren-Faire dweebs, but I guess without a larger-than life size example, they'd never find the real thing, especially on those "volumptuous" "plus-sized" "Rubenseque" "BBW" Ren-"babes".
posted by orthogonality at 2:20 PM on March 21, 2005
I'm torn on whether it's good to facilitate mating by Ren-Faire dweebs, but I guess without a larger-than life size example, they'd never find the real thing, especially on those "volumptuous" "plus-sized" "Rubenseque" "BBW" Ren-"babes".
posted by orthogonality at 2:20 PM on March 21, 2005
...represents in three-dimensional form the sacred portal to the feminine temple...
...Naturally, what you put in your Velvet Vulva can have tremendous symbolic and magickal significance...
...full length medicine bag, intended for ritual and ceremony...
I'm not sure I have ever understood the whole goddess thing. This in particular sounds like pandering to the goddess inside... So it's not enough to wear your heart on your sleeve now, you also have to wear your vulva?
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:26 PM on March 21, 2005
...Naturally, what you put in your Velvet Vulva can have tremendous symbolic and magickal significance...
...full length medicine bag, intended for ritual and ceremony...
I'm not sure I have ever understood the whole goddess thing. This in particular sounds like pandering to the goddess inside... So it's not enough to wear your heart on your sleeve now, you also have to wear your vulva?
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 2:26 PM on March 21, 2005
If I knew any Ren-"babes", it really would be a perfect gift. How disturbing.
posted by brheavy at 2:33 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by brheavy at 2:33 PM on March 21, 2005
From the pictures I can barely tell what's going on with these things. Can you imagine having to awkwardly fumble around with one in, say, a car, at night, or in the back row of a theater? Hardly looks convenient.
posted by coelecanth at 2:43 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by coelecanth at 2:43 PM on March 21, 2005
Renaissance fair NERDS!!!
I need to do some smiting with my +3 Stupid Stick, oops, too late.
posted by fenriq at 2:53 PM on March 21, 2005
I need to do some smiting with my +3 Stupid Stick, oops, too late.
posted by fenriq at 2:53 PM on March 21, 2005
This is one small step up fromfurry sex. Not really SFW, and definitely not safe before dinner.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:56 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:56 PM on March 21, 2005
Mommy, I'm scared.
posted by NewBornHippy at 3:02 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by NewBornHippy at 3:02 PM on March 21, 2005
Wow, $300? For that kind of money, I'm going to learn how to make velvet vaginas of my very own.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 3:18 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by LittleMissCranky at 3:18 PM on March 21, 2005
"Velvet Vulva handbags are uniquely designed to arouse the divine goddess inside."
I'm certain that, by corollary, the g-string pouches will be designed to arouse the divine god inside, but I'd be rather surprised to find out I have a god inside me aroused by my g-string.
Maybe that's where bisexuality comes from. Straight body, gay god/goddess, or gay body, straight god/goddess.
posted by Bugbread at 3:19 PM on March 21, 2005
I'm certain that, by corollary, the g-string pouches will be designed to arouse the divine god inside, but I'd be rather surprised to find out I have a god inside me aroused by my g-string.
Maybe that's where bisexuality comes from. Straight body, gay god/goddess, or gay body, straight god/goddess.
posted by Bugbread at 3:19 PM on March 21, 2005
I can only think of one word to say in reaction to this, and that word is "quim". Nothing else seems to fit.
posted by Decani at 3:32 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by Decani at 3:32 PM on March 21, 2005
So if I'm in a hurry and I need something from the bottom of the bag, I have to tickle the button for twenty minutes first? Seems kind of inconvenient.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:40 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by Armitage Shanks at 3:40 PM on March 21, 2005
I suppose taking your wedding rings out of your Velvet Vulva is at least classier than popping them out of this. (nsfw)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:43 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:43 PM on March 21, 2005
$300? Damn, for that much money, it had better be giving some good reciprocation. And it better come with a set of batteries.
posted by fenriq at 3:50 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by fenriq at 3:50 PM on March 21, 2005
My parents are members of the SCA and as a result my brothers and I were exposed to a lot of Ren culture growing up. My mother never took kindly my brothers' and my comments about the ubiquitous SCA physique.
posted by sourwookie at 3:56 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by sourwookie at 3:56 PM on March 21, 2005
I think that if I ever saw someone pluging a hand in one of those and pulling out something large, that would give me nightmares for a few days...
posted by clevershark at 4:40 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by clevershark at 4:40 PM on March 21, 2005
If you wish to make your own fiber-based rendition of female genitalia, you can knit yourself a womb.
posted by Shoeburyness at 5:16 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by Shoeburyness at 5:16 PM on March 21, 2005
coelecanth writes " From the pictures I can barely tell what's going on with these things. Can you imagine having to awkwardly fumble around with one in, say, a car, at night, or in the back row of a theater? Hardly looks convenient."
There's, like, a "button" near the top. Sometimes it's a big button, sometimes it's a small button. At first it's hard to find, but you have to press the button. Don't press it too much, it's sensitive, and it'll hide it you press it too much. But be persistent. After you press the button a bit, the whole thing opens up.
posted by orthogonality at 5:21 PM on March 21, 2005
There's, like, a "button" near the top. Sometimes it's a big button, sometimes it's a small button. At first it's hard to find, but you have to press the button. Don't press it too much, it's sensitive, and it'll hide it you press it too much. But be persistent. After you press the button a bit, the whole thing opens up.
posted by orthogonality at 5:21 PM on March 21, 2005
I just hope the Velvet Vulva does not get the Velvet Yeast Infection.
posted by c13 at 5:26 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by c13 at 5:26 PM on March 21, 2005
orthogonality spews vitriolically:
'I'm torn on whether it's good to facilitate mating by Ren-Faire dweebs, but I guess without a larger-than life size example, they'd never find the real thing, especially on those "volumptuous" "plus-sized" "Rubenseque" "BBW" Ren-"babes".'
Cripes, that's pretty strong talk coming from someone posting to a web link drop on the internet, who boasts in their profile that they have 400 fans (?!) of their Slashdot (!) rants (!!), and who expresses that alt.angst used to be good (!!!!).
Just as a suggestion, why don't you take your desperate need for attention back to alt.angst or slashdot or fark, where this sort of childish giggly lowbrow spew is heralded as the purest of Joycean brilliance, so that you may more properly bask in the pale, clammy glow of your reflected self-hate?
posted by felix at 5:34 PM on March 21, 2005
'I'm torn on whether it's good to facilitate mating by Ren-Faire dweebs, but I guess without a larger-than life size example, they'd never find the real thing, especially on those "volumptuous" "plus-sized" "Rubenseque" "BBW" Ren-"babes".'
Cripes, that's pretty strong talk coming from someone posting to a web link drop on the internet, who boasts in their profile that they have 400 fans (?!) of their Slashdot (!) rants (!!), and who expresses that alt.angst used to be good (!!!!).
Just as a suggestion, why don't you take your desperate need for attention back to alt.angst or slashdot or fark, where this sort of childish giggly lowbrow spew is heralded as the purest of Joycean brilliance, so that you may more properly bask in the pale, clammy glow of your reflected self-hate?
posted by felix at 5:34 PM on March 21, 2005
Dude, have some mead and chill out.
posted by casu marzu at 5:53 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by casu marzu at 5:53 PM on March 21, 2005
you have to press the button
why not start her off with a kiss, boy?
posted by mr.marx at 5:54 PM on March 21, 2005
why not start her off with a kiss, boy?
posted by mr.marx at 5:54 PM on March 21, 2005
"The Velvet Vulva" would be a great name for a lesbian bar.
This is a perfect design for those ubiquitous tampon cases.. except that those generally try to disguise their contents.
posted by cmyk at 6:10 PM on March 21, 2005
This is a perfect design for those ubiquitous tampon cases.. except that those generally try to disguise their contents.
posted by cmyk at 6:10 PM on March 21, 2005
felix writes "Just as a suggestion, why don't you take your desperate need for attention back to alt.angst or slashdot or fark, where this sort of childish giggly lowbrow spew is heralded as the purest of Joycean brilliance, so that you may more properly bask in the pale, clammy glow of your reflected self-hate?"
I guess I touched a nerve?
But please, tell us how svelte the Ren-babes of your experience are (not one exceeding "20 stone" in weight, even in her chainmail girdle), and how you became "Duke" of your local Society for Creative Anachronism "fiefdom" at a festive revel featuring cardboard "swords" and faux-fur "capes" and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement.
posted by orthogonality at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
I guess I touched a nerve?
But please, tell us how svelte the Ren-babes of your experience are (not one exceeding "20 stone" in weight, even in her chainmail girdle), and how you became "Duke" of your local Society for Creative Anachronism "fiefdom" at a festive revel featuring cardboard "swords" and faux-fur "capes" and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement.
posted by orthogonality at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
While $300 is a bit dear for my current budget, I like these a lot. I like the fabrics and the colors. The shape is interesting and the look on the face of anyone around me when I took my wallet out of my pussy purse would almost be worth whatever she's charging, especially if it helped to repel people who still pick on fat chicks and Ren Fair nerds.
cmyk: A more interesting feminine hygiene product carrying option.
posted by jennyb at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2005
cmyk: A more interesting feminine hygiene product carrying option.
posted by jennyb at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2005
orthogonality: I don't know about felix, and I think it's always weird to ransack someone's profile for ammunition against them, so that part of his comment wasn't warranted. But I was sort of surprised at how close your comment above came to a "laugh at the fatties" snark. Surprised, because you're the last person I'd expect it from. Yeah, I know, ren-fair folk are funny, but could we keep the humor a little more friendly, and maybe dispense with the fat jokes? It's possible to laugh a little at each other without being mean. I think maybe that's what you were trying to do, it just didn't come out that way.
posted by koeselitz at 6:35 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by koeselitz at 6:35 PM on March 21, 2005
It's possible to laugh a little at each other without being mean
Of course it is. But it's not nearly as much fun.
posted by Decani at 6:38 PM on March 21, 2005
Of course it is. But it's not nearly as much fun.
posted by Decani at 6:38 PM on March 21, 2005
It's possible to laugh a little at each other ...
I don't know... the laughing looks pretty unidirectional to me.
posted by c13 at 6:47 PM on March 21, 2005
I don't know... the laughing looks pretty unidirectional to me.
posted by c13 at 6:47 PM on March 21, 2005
jennyb writes "especially if it helped to repel people who still pick on fat chicks and Ren Fair nerds"
I've got nothing against fat chicks. I have a problem with fat chicks who insist that they're anything but fat, by coming up with euphemism after euphemism that fools no one.
I have a problem with foolish euphemisms like "BBW" or "Rubensesque" or the often misspelled (tellingly as "voLUMPtuous") "voluptuous", especially when the unreality is compounded with a lovingly constructed "biography" about being a "princess" or "lady" in a ridiculously counter-factual medieval period full of dragons and elves and other fantasies, but unaccountable free of pestilence, Black Plague, religious wars, oppressive princes or grasping Churchmen.
Now, if a chick wants to say she's fat, and that given preponderance of peasants in the real middle ages, she's probably have been a serf or a scullery maid, poor and illiterate and usually cold and dirty and malnourished, then my hat's off to her. Good historical interpretation is valuable and difficult -- playing "princess" isn't. I'd pay good money to see a Ren-faire that was even somewhat historically accurate.
It's the lack of reality, the blithe assumption that everyone in the medieval period was a dashing noble in a time of chivalry and heaving bodices, jousting or playing the lute while eating fried dough, that I just find cloying and silly and all too ugly-American.
koeselitz writes "orthogonality: I don't know about felix, and I think it's always weird to ransack someone's profile for ammunition against them, so that part of his comment wasn't warranted. But I was sort of surprised at how close your comment above came to a 'laugh at the fatties' snark."
Well, Steve_at_Linnwood went through my profile to do the same, and Hell, I expected as much when I put up the profile, so yeah, it's a bit tasteless. But hey, I did note from his profile that OmieWise is some sort of therapist too, so I can't much carp about it.
As I explain above, I'm not into laughing at fatties (and in recent years, throwing those stones could come a bit close to my own glass corset), but i am into laughing at people who live in their own carefully constructed fantasy worlds.
Especially when those fantasies become so compelling that the fantasizers insist we share their fantasies.
"BBW" is getting to be that way: it's one thing to think of yourself as a "BBW" if it helps you get through the day, but it's pernicious to forget that "BBW" is just a nice way of saying "fat", and it's sheer folly when a fat person begins to believe her own press-releases -- "I'm not fat, I'm a 'Big Beautiful Woman'." It completely crosses the line when a fat person takes offense at being objectively called fat, and insist on the usage of "BBW" -- it's nothing more than another case of PC run amok, in a culture where the worst offense is to speak uncomfortable truths to which somebody, somewhere will take offense.
HL Mencken described Puritanism as "The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." I might paraphrase him and describe political correctness as "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, will be offended."
Is laughing at a fattie cruel? Sure, and it should be avoided. Is laughing at the Emperor's New Euphemism cruel? Perhaps, but it's also I think a necessary corrective.
I have no problem with people who let their bodies get soft and flabby, but I do think it's a problem for all of us when people allow their minds to get so soft and flabby that they become unwilling or unable to separate fantasy and euphemism from reality.
posted by orthogonality at 7:04 PM on March 21, 2005
I've got nothing against fat chicks. I have a problem with fat chicks who insist that they're anything but fat, by coming up with euphemism after euphemism that fools no one.
I have a problem with foolish euphemisms like "BBW" or "Rubensesque" or the often misspelled (tellingly as "voLUMPtuous") "voluptuous", especially when the unreality is compounded with a lovingly constructed "biography" about being a "princess" or "lady" in a ridiculously counter-factual medieval period full of dragons and elves and other fantasies, but unaccountable free of pestilence, Black Plague, religious wars, oppressive princes or grasping Churchmen.
Now, if a chick wants to say she's fat, and that given preponderance of peasants in the real middle ages, she's probably have been a serf or a scullery maid, poor and illiterate and usually cold and dirty and malnourished, then my hat's off to her. Good historical interpretation is valuable and difficult -- playing "princess" isn't. I'd pay good money to see a Ren-faire that was even somewhat historically accurate.
It's the lack of reality, the blithe assumption that everyone in the medieval period was a dashing noble in a time of chivalry and heaving bodices, jousting or playing the lute while eating fried dough, that I just find cloying and silly and all too ugly-American.
koeselitz writes "orthogonality: I don't know about felix, and I think it's always weird to ransack someone's profile for ammunition against them, so that part of his comment wasn't warranted. But I was sort of surprised at how close your comment above came to a 'laugh at the fatties' snark."
Well, Steve_at_Linnwood went through my profile to do the same, and Hell, I expected as much when I put up the profile, so yeah, it's a bit tasteless. But hey, I did note from his profile that OmieWise is some sort of therapist too, so I can't much carp about it.
As I explain above, I'm not into laughing at fatties (and in recent years, throwing those stones could come a bit close to my own glass corset), but i am into laughing at people who live in their own carefully constructed fantasy worlds.
Especially when those fantasies become so compelling that the fantasizers insist we share their fantasies.
"BBW" is getting to be that way: it's one thing to think of yourself as a "BBW" if it helps you get through the day, but it's pernicious to forget that "BBW" is just a nice way of saying "fat", and it's sheer folly when a fat person begins to believe her own press-releases -- "I'm not fat, I'm a 'Big Beautiful Woman'." It completely crosses the line when a fat person takes offense at being objectively called fat, and insist on the usage of "BBW" -- it's nothing more than another case of PC run amok, in a culture where the worst offense is to speak uncomfortable truths to which somebody, somewhere will take offense.
HL Mencken described Puritanism as "The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." I might paraphrase him and describe political correctness as "the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, will be offended."
Is laughing at a fattie cruel? Sure, and it should be avoided. Is laughing at the Emperor's New Euphemism cruel? Perhaps, but it's also I think a necessary corrective.
I have no problem with people who let their bodies get soft and flabby, but I do think it's a problem for all of us when people allow their minds to get so soft and flabby that they become unwilling or unable to separate fantasy and euphemism from reality.
posted by orthogonality at 7:04 PM on March 21, 2005
"Naturally, what you put in your Velvet Vulva can have tremendous symbolic and magickal significance. ... The largest, most intricately structured, suitable for cell phone and day-planner..."
posted by undecided at 7:09 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by undecided at 7:09 PM on March 21, 2005
This velvet vulva, it doesn't vibrate?
(OK, I'll go sit in the corner now...)
posted by bugmuncher at 7:26 PM on March 21, 2005
(OK, I'll go sit in the corner now...)
posted by bugmuncher at 7:26 PM on March 21, 2005
Ortho: I think you are missing the point of fat euphemisms. It isn't that people don't know they're fat; it's that they don't think being so equals all the negative things people pile on "fat." So they choose another term.
posted by dame at 7:57 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by dame at 7:57 PM on March 21, 2005
dame writes "
Ortho: I think you are missing the point of fat euphemisms. It isn't that people don't know they're fat; it's that they don't think being so equals all the negative things people pile on 'fat.' So they choose another term."
Yeah, but those who pile on the negatives pile it on no matter what someone calls himself. If someone really is comfortable with being fat, he has no need of euphemism; if he's not, he shouldn't let the euphemism get in the way of getting himself less fat.
posted by orthogonality at 8:04 PM on March 21, 2005
Ortho: I think you are missing the point of fat euphemisms. It isn't that people don't know they're fat; it's that they don't think being so equals all the negative things people pile on 'fat.' So they choose another term."
Yeah, but those who pile on the negatives pile it on no matter what someone calls himself. If someone really is comfortable with being fat, he has no need of euphemism; if he's not, he shouldn't let the euphemism get in the way of getting himself less fat.
posted by orthogonality at 8:04 PM on March 21, 2005
it's pernicious to forget that "BBW" is just a nice way of saying "fat", and it's sheer folly when a fat person begins to believe her own press-releases -- "I'm not fat, I'm a 'Big Beautiful Woman'." It completely crosses the line when a fat person takes offense at being objectively called fat, and insist on the usage of "BBW"
Whoa, dude. If someone were to tell me that posting a link about velvet vulvas would result in a rant against the term BBW and the bountiful embodiment of said term, well fuck, I wish I hadn't posted the link.
I think you need to re-read those press releases. BBWs know they're fat and don't generally give a fuck what you call them. BBW is more a term applied by an admirer than by an admiree. So whatever line you say is crossed by people accepting and enjoying voluptuousness, please don't brush it off as some vain euphemism patrolled by the angry women who won't let you touch them.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:05 PM on March 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
Whoa, dude. If someone were to tell me that posting a link about velvet vulvas would result in a rant against the term BBW and the bountiful embodiment of said term, well fuck, I wish I hadn't posted the link.
I think you need to re-read those press releases. BBWs know they're fat and don't generally give a fuck what you call them. BBW is more a term applied by an admirer than by an admiree. So whatever line you say is crossed by people accepting and enjoying voluptuousness, please don't brush it off as some vain euphemism patrolled by the angry women who won't let you touch them.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:05 PM on March 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
orthogonality : "I'd pay good money to see a Ren-faire that was even somewhat historically accurate."
I've only been to two Renfaires (one in Texas, and one near Los Angeles). The Texas one was the "dragons and faeries" type, but the one near LA was pretty damn cool. First of all, surprisingly for a Renfaire, it was set in...the Rennaissance period! Fancy that! Not the middle ages, with armor and swords, but the Rennaissance! Of course, there isn't much you can do about the customers (but that goes for anywhere), but all the staff (and that's a lot of staff) were very historically accurate, as were the accents (I understand there's mandatory accent training, and until you get good at accents you don't get to do jobs with speaking parts). The food had names like "turkey" or "mutton" instead of "dragon legs" or other silly stuff. So you might want to check it out. I was pleasantly surprised.
I'm not as informed on the SCA, but I do remember a pamphlet for prospective applicants that had rule after rule regarding historical accuracy (you have to pick your position in life. Depending on your position, certain clothing / colors / materials / manner of wearing them are strictly prohibited. You must pick where you are from. Your costume must be accurate to that region. You must pick a name that is appropriate for your position in life and your birthplace. Etc.). I don't know how strictly they're enforced, but from what I saw, everyone could be a nobleman or a lute player, but if you were one, you had to base your character on real noblemen and lute players, not bad fantasy novels.
posted by Bugbread at 8:07 PM on March 21, 2005
I've only been to two Renfaires (one in Texas, and one near Los Angeles). The Texas one was the "dragons and faeries" type, but the one near LA was pretty damn cool. First of all, surprisingly for a Renfaire, it was set in...the Rennaissance period! Fancy that! Not the middle ages, with armor and swords, but the Rennaissance! Of course, there isn't much you can do about the customers (but that goes for anywhere), but all the staff (and that's a lot of staff) were very historically accurate, as were the accents (I understand there's mandatory accent training, and until you get good at accents you don't get to do jobs with speaking parts). The food had names like "turkey" or "mutton" instead of "dragon legs" or other silly stuff. So you might want to check it out. I was pleasantly surprised.
I'm not as informed on the SCA, but I do remember a pamphlet for prospective applicants that had rule after rule regarding historical accuracy (you have to pick your position in life. Depending on your position, certain clothing / colors / materials / manner of wearing them are strictly prohibited. You must pick where you are from. Your costume must be accurate to that region. You must pick a name that is appropriate for your position in life and your birthplace. Etc.). I don't know how strictly they're enforced, but from what I saw, everyone could be a nobleman or a lute player, but if you were one, you had to base your character on real noblemen and lute players, not bad fantasy novels.
posted by Bugbread at 8:07 PM on March 21, 2005
Is laughing at the Emperor's New Euphemism cruel? Perhaps, but it's also I think a necessary corrective.
Yes, laughing derisively always results in the delusional seeing the error of their ways. Although I'd think it much less necessary for the correcting of the fat and ugly living in denial of their own fat and ugliness than for America's deeply delusional Ruling Class who apparently are unwilling to understand the medical definition of "dead" and "alive".
But then, it's so much easier to go after those who indulge in their "lack of reality" at relatively isolated gatherings on weekends rather than those whose fantasies are rapidly destroying this country.
posted by wendell at 8:10 PM on March 21, 2005
Yes, laughing derisively always results in the delusional seeing the error of their ways. Although I'd think it much less necessary for the correcting of the fat and ugly living in denial of their own fat and ugliness than for America's deeply delusional Ruling Class who apparently are unwilling to understand the medical definition of "dead" and "alive".
But then, it's so much easier to go after those who indulge in their "lack of reality" at relatively isolated gatherings on weekends rather than those whose fantasies are rapidly destroying this country.
posted by wendell at 8:10 PM on March 21, 2005
Washable, full-sized ... with cotton interior
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:19 PM on March 21, 2005
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:19 PM on March 21, 2005
orthogonality desperately tries to explain:
As I explain above, I'm not into laughing at fatties (and in recent years, throwing those stones could come a bit close to my own glass corset), but i am into laughing at people who live in their own carefully constructed fantasy worlds.
Especially when those fantasies become so compelling that the fantasizers insist we share their fantasies.
Let me posit a situation. A kid, less well adjusted than usual. Angry, sullen, not sure what to do with life. Works a helpdesk job for a while, gets into the low end of the newsgroups in order to try to make friends and get acceptance. Discovers that the hapless denizens of this group, steeling themselves against a forbidding world by trying to make light of others, really dig his pathos/bathos puppet show. Moves on to the big time -- Slashdot, a forum where you can be fifteen your entire life, and you get actual points for reading from the songbook of the disdained adolescent. Discovers that ranting amusingly works. Fancies self a real hit. Moves onto Metafilter with a dream of making it big!
orthogonality?
No -- actually, felix. Yeah, I've got fans too.
Fat lot of fucking good it's ever done me.
And now that I've grown up a little -- gotten married, had a kid -- I realize that making fun of people who are trying to find their own center -- with whatever language they need to try to find it -- is approximately the very most useless thing you can do with your life. If people want to have fun then let them.
Do not insist we share your fantasy of a world in which it's okay to demean and humiliate the fringe. You will not win acceptance, you will not win happiness, you will not make any lasting "fans". Take it from me, kid. Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today. Now. It will save you so much hassle later I can't even relate it to you.
But of course you won't listen. Go on about how I'm the fat lord of SCA now if you like, you brilliant and incisive Oscar Wilde of the internet scene.
posted by felix at 9:06 PM on March 21, 2005
As I explain above, I'm not into laughing at fatties (and in recent years, throwing those stones could come a bit close to my own glass corset), but i am into laughing at people who live in their own carefully constructed fantasy worlds.
Especially when those fantasies become so compelling that the fantasizers insist we share their fantasies.
Let me posit a situation. A kid, less well adjusted than usual. Angry, sullen, not sure what to do with life. Works a helpdesk job for a while, gets into the low end of the newsgroups in order to try to make friends and get acceptance. Discovers that the hapless denizens of this group, steeling themselves against a forbidding world by trying to make light of others, really dig his pathos/bathos puppet show. Moves on to the big time -- Slashdot, a forum where you can be fifteen your entire life, and you get actual points for reading from the songbook of the disdained adolescent. Discovers that ranting amusingly works. Fancies self a real hit. Moves onto Metafilter with a dream of making it big!
orthogonality?
No -- actually, felix. Yeah, I've got fans too.
Fat lot of fucking good it's ever done me.
And now that I've grown up a little -- gotten married, had a kid -- I realize that making fun of people who are trying to find their own center -- with whatever language they need to try to find it -- is approximately the very most useless thing you can do with your life. If people want to have fun then let them.
Do not insist we share your fantasy of a world in which it's okay to demean and humiliate the fringe. You will not win acceptance, you will not win happiness, you will not make any lasting "fans". Take it from me, kid. Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today. Now. It will save you so much hassle later I can't even relate it to you.
But of course you won't listen. Go on about how I'm the fat lord of SCA now if you like, you brilliant and incisive Oscar Wilde of the internet scene.
posted by felix at 9:06 PM on March 21, 2005
If someone really is comfortable with being fat, he has no need of euphemism; if he's not, he shouldn't let the euphemism get in the way of getting himself less fat.
See, right there, you are the exact problem that people are reacting against. You act like it's the worst thing in the world, to be fat. And that by not making themselves less fat but more happy people are doing something wrong.
I hate it when people are stupid & lying to themselves too. It would be great if they could just look at assholes like you and say, "Fuck you, I'm fat and I don't care what mean things you say about it." However, not being able to do so is not the worst failing there is. In fact, being made to feel awful for being fat is one of the best ways to stay so. You don't really give a shit about people's health, so don't even drag that out. You make fun of fat people because it's easy and acceptable and easy to rationalize. And it does nothing but make you look like a cockwad.
posted by dame at 9:52 PM on March 21, 2005
See, right there, you are the exact problem that people are reacting against. You act like it's the worst thing in the world, to be fat. And that by not making themselves less fat but more happy people are doing something wrong.
I hate it when people are stupid & lying to themselves too. It would be great if they could just look at assholes like you and say, "Fuck you, I'm fat and I don't care what mean things you say about it." However, not being able to do so is not the worst failing there is. In fact, being made to feel awful for being fat is one of the best ways to stay so. You don't really give a shit about people's health, so don't even drag that out. You make fun of fat people because it's easy and acceptable and easy to rationalize. And it does nothing but make you look like a cockwad.
posted by dame at 9:52 PM on March 21, 2005
felix writes "No -- actually, felix. Yeah, I've got fans too.
"Fat lot of fucking good it's ever done me.".... "Take it from me, kid. Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today."
Converts are always the most zealous, eh, felix? Did you join the Church of the One Ring, or the Church of the Holy Wheel of Cheese?
And if you've learned so much, why are you still playing the role of barbarian Flame-Warrior on Mefi?
If it makes you feel better to get that off your chest, more power to you.
But I'm not here, nor is anyone else, to listen to your soap opera. Your biography is only superficially like mine -- though both are about as boring -- so maybe you can turn it into a "filk-song" and sing it to your Ren-faire buddies or, from your link, your Rocky-Horror Picture Show pals. I'm afraid I don't find your anger, or your story, or your hobbies compelling.
I'm far from the first person, nor will I be the last, to observe that Ren-Faire types tend to, uh, have much to observe -- even if you can observe their belts as rarely as they observe their own feet. See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
So get over it. If you're still upset, you'll get over it after fitting your head in a gallon of Ben & Jerry's. See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
I know, I know, now you're angry. So angry you might heave your bulk up off the couch and pop a button or two on your size 44 pants and stomp after me, the earth shaking with your every step. Except for the sweet sweet scent of the candy-coated cheese wheel dipped in chocolate that draws you back to your couch for yet another "Lord of the Rings" video marathon. Do you identify with the tiny hobbits and their prodigious appetites, or the big hairy spider and its prodigious appetite? See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
It's been great to "meet" you, as it were, as I'll always know in the event of a famine, I can live off the crumbs in collected in your various -- ah, what's the point?
Look jack, if you can't abide stand people making light (ahem) of other people, maybe the internet just isn't the place for you.
dame writes "You act like it's the worst thing in the world, to be fat. And that by not making themselves less fat but more happy people are doing something wrong."
No, I said if someone is comfortable with being fat and has no need of foolish euphemism, more power to him. How's that saying it's the worst thing in the world?
Honest to god, I don't make practice of mocking fat people, I don't think it's -- by a long shot -- the worst thing ion the world, and I genuinely don't really give a damn if people are fat or not, so long as I'm not sitting next to them in an airplane. Really. Fat is only a big deal to fat people -- the rest of us just don't care. And you're right -- I don't care about people's health -- nor did I say I did. Honestly, I just don't give a shit.
But fuck, I'm not going to look at the linked pictures and pretend that Ren-Fair goers are all anorexics. They're not, and no, I'm not going to lie just to make you or anyone else feel better. Life is too short for that. and if you're offended, well, it's your life, but I'd hope you have better things to do.
posted by orthogonality at 11:06 PM on March 21, 2005
"Fat lot of fucking good it's ever done me.".... "Take it from me, kid. Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today."
Converts are always the most zealous, eh, felix? Did you join the Church of the One Ring, or the Church of the Holy Wheel of Cheese?
And if you've learned so much, why are you still playing the role of barbarian Flame-Warrior on Mefi?
If it makes you feel better to get that off your chest, more power to you.
But I'm not here, nor is anyone else, to listen to your soap opera. Your biography is only superficially like mine -- though both are about as boring -- so maybe you can turn it into a "filk-song" and sing it to your Ren-faire buddies or, from your link, your Rocky-Horror Picture Show pals. I'm afraid I don't find your anger, or your story, or your hobbies compelling.
I'm far from the first person, nor will I be the last, to observe that Ren-Faire types tend to, uh, have much to observe -- even if you can observe their belts as rarely as they observe their own feet. See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
So get over it. If you're still upset, you'll get over it after fitting your head in a gallon of Ben & Jerry's. See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
I know, I know, now you're angry. So angry you might heave your bulk up off the couch and pop a button or two on your size 44 pants and stomp after me, the earth shaking with your every step. Except for the sweet sweet scent of the candy-coated cheese wheel dipped in chocolate that draws you back to your couch for yet another "Lord of the Rings" video marathon. Do you identify with the tiny hobbits and their prodigious appetites, or the big hairy spider and its prodigious appetite? See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
It's been great to "meet" you, as it were, as I'll always know in the event of a famine, I can live off the crumbs in collected in your various -- ah, what's the point?
Look jack, if you can't abide stand people making light (ahem) of other people, maybe the internet just isn't the place for you.
dame writes "You act like it's the worst thing in the world, to be fat. And that by not making themselves less fat but more happy people are doing something wrong."
No, I said if someone is comfortable with being fat and has no need of foolish euphemism, more power to him. How's that saying it's the worst thing in the world?
Honest to god, I don't make practice of mocking fat people, I don't think it's -- by a long shot -- the worst thing ion the world, and I genuinely don't really give a damn if people are fat or not, so long as I'm not sitting next to them in an airplane. Really. Fat is only a big deal to fat people -- the rest of us just don't care. And you're right -- I don't care about people's health -- nor did I say I did. Honestly, I just don't give a shit.
But fuck, I'm not going to look at the linked pictures and pretend that Ren-Fair goers are all anorexics. They're not, and no, I'm not going to lie just to make you or anyone else feel better. Life is too short for that. and if you're offended, well, it's your life, but I'd hope you have better things to do.
posted by orthogonality at 11:06 PM on March 21, 2005
danOstuporStar writes " BBW is more a term applied by an admirer [rather] than by an admiree."
Huh, I most often see it being applied by women to themselves, as in craigslist personals. But perhaps your experience differs, and I appreciate your friendly and level-headed willingness to share it.
"So whatever line you say is crossed by people accepting and enjoying voluptuousness, please don't brush it off as some vain euphemism patrolled by the angry women who won't let you touch them."
Oh, wait, not so friendly, here comes the ad hominem. So, which women told you they wouldn't let me touch them?
Oh, you made that up, in your anger, out of the whole cloth, just to get in a personal attack? You don't actually know whether I in fact have a harem of "BBW"s or not, or even whether or not I've ever found a fat chick attractive or not.
You just wanted to score some points? My hat's off to you, my friend, you're truly a hero of over-sensitive, offended, politically correct fat people everywhere! Maybe there's a Ren-Faire knighthood in it for you! Who knows, maybe "the angry women who won't let [me] touch them" will be all over you in their gratitude. I'll be envious, won't I? Well-played, Sir Knight, well-played!
posted by orthogonality at 11:31 PM on March 21, 2005
Huh, I most often see it being applied by women to themselves, as in craigslist personals. But perhaps your experience differs, and I appreciate your friendly and level-headed willingness to share it.
"So whatever line you say is crossed by people accepting and enjoying voluptuousness, please don't brush it off as some vain euphemism patrolled by the angry women who won't let you touch them."
Oh, wait, not so friendly, here comes the ad hominem. So, which women told you they wouldn't let me touch them?
Oh, you made that up, in your anger, out of the whole cloth, just to get in a personal attack? You don't actually know whether I in fact have a harem of "BBW"s or not, or even whether or not I've ever found a fat chick attractive or not.
You just wanted to score some points? My hat's off to you, my friend, you're truly a hero of over-sensitive, offended, politically correct fat people everywhere! Maybe there's a Ren-Faire knighthood in it for you! Who knows, maybe "the angry women who won't let [me] touch them" will be all over you in their gratitude. I'll be envious, won't I? Well-played, Sir Knight, well-played!
posted by orthogonality at 11:31 PM on March 21, 2005
Desperate to land a shot, orthogonality writes:
(tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job. (tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job. (tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
and then, of course, desperate to stay "in" with the "in crowd", he pathologically offers:
Fat is only a big deal to fat people -- the rest of us just don't care. And you're right -- I don't care about people's health -- nor did I say I did. Honestly, I just don't give a shit.
Well, which is it, graceful muse of the blogosphere? Are you the manic George Carlin of the genius rant-spitting comedic licks against those abominable SCA fatties or are you the too-cool-to-care above-it-all cerebral sage of the airwaves, just observing, coolly amused, from a distance?
Because, my precious little munchkin, my coddled little premature escapee, orthogonal, darling, you do not possess the skill to be both. And that sound? That you hear? Is not the sound of your two hundred! Slashdot! Fans! gleefully revelling in your presumed ability to rant... oh dear me no. It's the sound of Google, grabbing your post, and SAVING it. Saving ALL of it. Every last WORD is being saved. Clickety clack.
And Orthogonal, my dim, disorganized, unpleasant little drone, the mills of Google grind slow, but they grind exceeding small.
posted by felix at 12:08 AM on March 22, 2005
(tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job. (tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job. (tedious grade school insult) See? If I'd really wanted to mock fatties, I could have done a much more thorough job.
and then, of course, desperate to stay "in" with the "in crowd", he pathologically offers:
Fat is only a big deal to fat people -- the rest of us just don't care. And you're right -- I don't care about people's health -- nor did I say I did. Honestly, I just don't give a shit.
Well, which is it, graceful muse of the blogosphere? Are you the manic George Carlin of the genius rant-spitting comedic licks against those abominable SCA fatties or are you the too-cool-to-care above-it-all cerebral sage of the airwaves, just observing, coolly amused, from a distance?
Because, my precious little munchkin, my coddled little premature escapee, orthogonal, darling, you do not possess the skill to be both. And that sound? That you hear? Is not the sound of your two hundred! Slashdot! Fans! gleefully revelling in your presumed ability to rant... oh dear me no. It's the sound of Google, grabbing your post, and SAVING it. Saving ALL of it. Every last WORD is being saved. Clickety clack.
And Orthogonal, my dim, disorganized, unpleasant little drone, the mills of Google grind slow, but they grind exceeding small.
posted by felix at 12:08 AM on March 22, 2005
I greased the tracks. I always forget that the slippery slope works here. Sorry, everyone!
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:04 AM on March 22, 2005
posted by Mayor Curley at 4:04 AM on March 22, 2005
bugbread, the SCA isn't as strict as all that -- they encourage it, but the only basic requirement to attend events is "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing", so as you might imagine, SCA folks run the gamut from PhD's in Medieval History with perfectly period clothing, skills, names, and so on, to "Raeven Fairychilde the Wanderer" who thinks that the "tits on a platter" Renfaire wench dress worn with fairy wings was actually period. So there is a certain amount of tension between the authenticity geeks and the rest. Basically there is a low bar to entry, but many people start at that level and end up at a much more authentic level.
I hope there isn't someone actually named "Raeven Fairychilde the Wanderer"....
posted by litlnemo at 5:03 AM on March 22, 2005
I hope there isn't someone actually named "Raeven Fairychilde the Wanderer"....
posted by litlnemo at 5:03 AM on March 22, 2005
If you wish to make your own fiber-based rendition of female genitalia, you can knit yourself a womb.
Or sew your own vulva-shaped coin-purse. Tutorial and photos here.
posted by heatherann at 6:01 AM on March 22, 2005
Or sew your own vulva-shaped coin-purse. Tutorial and photos here.
posted by heatherann at 6:01 AM on March 22, 2005
Mayor Curley: "I greased the tracks. I always forget that the slippery slope works here. Sorry, everyone!"
Eh, it's not exactly your fault. Besides, I'm surprised. Given the people involved, I would've thought somebody would let up by now.
In the interest of putting this back on track, here are my own observations about this link: really, really frightening. Not frightening because I view vulvas as frightening, but frightening because I view vulvas as private. I'm not some sort of weird fascist, I'm just, well, frightened by the image that's now stuck in my head of everyone walking around wearing larger-than-life cloth reproductions of their genitalia on top of their clothes. Isn't that just a little strange? And, well, confrontational? Like, a step away from exhibitionism?
But, hell, I like bodies. I guess it's no big deal.
posted by koeselitz at 8:28 AM on March 22, 2005
Eh, it's not exactly your fault. Besides, I'm surprised. Given the people involved, I would've thought somebody would let up by now.
In the interest of putting this back on track, here are my own observations about this link: really, really frightening. Not frightening because I view vulvas as frightening, but frightening because I view vulvas as private. I'm not some sort of weird fascist, I'm just, well, frightened by the image that's now stuck in my head of everyone walking around wearing larger-than-life cloth reproductions of their genitalia on top of their clothes. Isn't that just a little strange? And, well, confrontational? Like, a step away from exhibitionism?
But, hell, I like bodies. I guess it's no big deal.
posted by koeselitz at 8:28 AM on March 22, 2005
"I'm just, well, frightened by the image that's now stuck in my head of everyone walking around wearing larger-than-life cloth reproductions of their genitalia on top of their clothes. Isn't that just a little strange? And, well, confrontational? Like, a step away from exhibitionism?"
Hmmmm...You've got as point there.
[Quietly removes necktie and slinks off into the corner.]
posted by googly at 10:00 AM on March 22, 2005
Hmmmm...You've got as point there.
[Quietly removes necktie and slinks off into the corner.]
posted by googly at 10:00 AM on March 22, 2005
But, koeselitz, vulvas can't be confrontational. They are warm and inviting. They like to hug. They aren't all mean and pokey like those penises.
To finish off that argument: Obviously you do care, ortho, as that's what you chose to mock. If you want a case study in popping pretentious balloons without being totally mean and useless, look at jonmc. While his mission can be annoying, it's rarely meanspirited. Or go back to slashdot.
posted by dame at 10:19 AM on March 22, 2005
To finish off that argument: Obviously you do care, ortho, as that's what you chose to mock. If you want a case study in popping pretentious balloons without being totally mean and useless, look at jonmc. While his mission can be annoying, it's rarely meanspirited. Or go back to slashdot.
posted by dame at 10:19 AM on March 22, 2005
[Quietly removes necktie and slinks off into the corner.]
Heh, googly, you made me laugh aloud.
For the record, I do think it's a little strange to be wearing a replication of a vulva, but I'm also all for cunt pride. So I'm a little confused: do I want one of these? Or shall I just stick to a nice print of a Georgia O'Keefe flower?
posted by Specklet at 10:34 AM on March 22, 2005
Heh, googly, you made me laugh aloud.
For the record, I do think it's a little strange to be wearing a replication of a vulva, but I'm also all for cunt pride. So I'm a little confused: do I want one of these? Or shall I just stick to a nice print of a Georgia O'Keefe flower?
posted by Specklet at 10:34 AM on March 22, 2005
I'm almost too embarrassed to tell you what those Georgia O'Keefe flowers remind me of...
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:39 AM on March 22, 2005
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:39 AM on March 22, 2005
If you want a case study in popping pretentious balloons without being totally mean and useless, look at jonmc. While his mission can be annoying, it's rarely meanspirited.
I'm on a mission from Gahd.
/elwood
*blushes*
thank ya , ma'am.
posted by jonmc at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2005
I'm on a mission from Gahd.
/elwood
*blushes*
thank ya , ma'am.
posted by jonmc at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2005
"volumptuous" "plus-sized" "Rubenseque" "BBW"
all those words = total hotness as far I'm concerned, orthogonality. And plenty of large women and their admirers have embraced the word "fat," as well.
posted by jonmc at 11:54 AM on March 22, 2005
all those words = total hotness as far I'm concerned, orthogonality. And plenty of large women and their admirers have embraced the word "fat," as well.
posted by jonmc at 11:54 AM on March 22, 2005
You know, I was going to respond to orthogonality's second or third post here (in which he challenges anyone to point to a non-fat RenFaire/SCA type), but shit, why bother? What an unpleasant person.
posted by kenko at 12:00 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by kenko at 12:00 PM on March 22, 2005
People like this are destroying the moral fabric of America with their pussy-purses and freakish gatherings!
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 1:56 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 1:56 PM on March 22, 2005
The purses are not quite my thing, but that cute cuddly uterus doll would look great hanging off the top of my computer. It almost makes me want to learn how to knit.
posted by PY at 3:43 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by PY at 3:43 PM on March 22, 2005
Orthogonality: In RENspeak i think the phrase you search for is...Nay to Fattyes!
Metafilter: No FatChicks Jokes
posted by schyler523 at 5:59 PM on March 22, 2005
Metafilter: No Fat
posted by schyler523 at 5:59 PM on March 22, 2005
schyler523 writes "Orthogonality: In RENspeak i think the phrase you search for is...Nay to Fattyes!
What's amusing is that in all the righteous indagation fat chick liberation yowling, no one -- not one person -- was offended that I opened by stereotyping men having mid-life crises: "over-compensating for being uninteresting is no longer just limited to paunchy bald middle-aged men in fast sports cars."
I guess there are those it's ok to mock, and on the other hand those who never can be mocked, certain, ah, dare I say it, sacred cows.
What's even more amusing is danOstuporStar's reaction, who writes "Whoa, dude. If someone were to tell me that posting a link about velvet vulvas would result in a rant against the term BBW and the bountiful embodiment of said term, well fuck, I wish I hadn't posted the link."
Of course, danOstuporStar posted the link precisely to make fun of Ren-Folk who wear vulva-handbags, believing it ok not only to mock those folks but to invite all the rest of us to join in the mocking. But then he's shocked, shocked! and wishes he hadn't posted when Ren-folk who are fat come in for some mockery.
dan, next time post a playbook clueing us in on what groups it's all in good fun to mock, and which groups it's politically incorrect to mock.
Most amusing is felix, as felix can't even figure out who he is or what he believes:
felix begins in a white hot rage: " orthogonality spews vitriolically.... why don't you take your desperate need for attention... where this sort of childish giggly lowbrow spew is heralded as the purest of Joycean brilliance, so that you may more properly bask in the pale, clammy glow of your reflected self-hate?"
In his next post, felix, having previously accused me of a "desperate need for attention", proceeds to give us six links to semi-coherent usenet postings of his, and two more links to his hobbies. I guess you could call it a heaping plate of felix.
Then, perhaps with his blood sugar on the rise after polishing off two dozen donuts, The Dalai Felix extols the virtues of loving-kindness: "Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today."
Yes, oh enlightened one, we'll learn from your example of compassion. But apparently felix's compassion is about as short-lived as a Bundt cake in his pantry, as a few hours latter, his compassion has turned to, uh, crumbs and his hunger pangs produce "Because, my precious little munchkin, my coddled little premature escapee, orthogonal, darling,... Orthogonal, my dim, disorganized, unpleasant little drone...."
Life truly is like a box of chocolates with felix: you never know what you're going to get, but you can bet the box will be empty after felix has stuffed his face with it.
posted by orthogonality at 6:48 PM on March 22, 2005
What's amusing is that in all the righteous indagation fat chick liberation yowling, no one -- not one person -- was offended that I opened by stereotyping men having mid-life crises: "over-compensating for being uninteresting is no longer just limited to paunchy bald middle-aged men in fast sports cars."
I guess there are those it's ok to mock, and on the other hand those who never can be mocked, certain, ah, dare I say it, sacred cows.
What's even more amusing is danOstuporStar's reaction, who writes "Whoa, dude. If someone were to tell me that posting a link about velvet vulvas would result in a rant against the term BBW and the bountiful embodiment of said term, well fuck, I wish I hadn't posted the link."
Of course, danOstuporStar posted the link precisely to make fun of Ren-Folk who wear vulva-handbags, believing it ok not only to mock those folks but to invite all the rest of us to join in the mocking. But then he's shocked, shocked! and wishes he hadn't posted when Ren-folk who are fat come in for some mockery.
dan, next time post a playbook clueing us in on what groups it's all in good fun to mock, and which groups it's politically incorrect to mock.
Most amusing is felix, as felix can't even figure out who he is or what he believes:
felix begins in a white hot rage: " orthogonality spews vitriolically.... why don't you take your desperate need for attention... where this sort of childish giggly lowbrow spew is heralded as the purest of Joycean brilliance, so that you may more properly bask in the pale, clammy glow of your reflected self-hate?"
In his next post, felix, having previously accused me of a "desperate need for attention", proceeds to give us six links to semi-coherent usenet postings of his, and two more links to his hobbies. I guess you could call it a heaping plate of felix.
Then, perhaps with his blood sugar on the rise after polishing off two dozen donuts, The Dalai Felix extols the virtues of loving-kindness: "Start growing up and becoming a real live person who can commit to being caring, kind and compassionate today."
Yes, oh enlightened one, we'll learn from your example of compassion. But apparently felix's compassion is about as short-lived as a Bundt cake in his pantry, as a few hours latter, his compassion has turned to, uh, crumbs and his hunger pangs produce "Because, my precious little munchkin, my coddled little premature escapee, orthogonal, darling,... Orthogonal, my dim, disorganized, unpleasant little drone...."
Life truly is like a box of chocolates with felix: you never know what you're going to get, but you can bet the box will be empty after felix has stuffed his face with it.
posted by orthogonality at 6:48 PM on March 22, 2005
Ortho Wan Asshat, though I know you are already aware of it, MetaTalk.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2005
Hey fat girl, are you ticklish?
Yeah, I called you fat, look at me I'm skinny
It never stopped me from gettin' busy....
posted by jonmc at 7:38 PM on March 22, 2005
Yeah, I called you fat, look at me I'm skinny
It never stopped me from gettin' busy....
posted by jonmc at 7:38 PM on March 22, 2005
I thought orthogonality wrote one thing in this thread that was worth highlighting:
orthogonality wrote:
". . . those who pile on the negatives pile it on no matter what someone calls himself. If someone really is comfortable with being fat, he has no need of euphemism; if he's not, he shouldn't let the euphemism get in the way of getting himself less fat."
This is a good point because it emphasizes an element in this whole dialogue missing from the beginning: the role of guilt in the overweight culture.
Those who are fat, like being fat, and have no trouble calling themselves "fat" should of course be free to do that. Bully for them. But the people who insist that others should not call them fat - doesn't that smack of a load of guilt regarding their condition being externalized and thrust upon the rest of us? It seems fair to say that they insist on using these alternative terms because they are not comfortable with their state but are not willing to put forth the effort to change it. Does this mean that the rest of us are obligated not to acknowledge their unwillingness to expend the effort to change their condition?
That strikes me as a trifle unfair, but then I don't really go out of my way to mock fat people that often and I'm not fat myself, so I might just be external to this whole thing.
posted by Ryvar at 8:43 PM on March 22, 2005
orthogonality wrote:
". . . those who pile on the negatives pile it on no matter what someone calls himself. If someone really is comfortable with being fat, he has no need of euphemism; if he's not, he shouldn't let the euphemism get in the way of getting himself less fat."
This is a good point because it emphasizes an element in this whole dialogue missing from the beginning: the role of guilt in the overweight culture.
Those who are fat, like being fat, and have no trouble calling themselves "fat" should of course be free to do that. Bully for them. But the people who insist that others should not call them fat - doesn't that smack of a load of guilt regarding their condition being externalized and thrust upon the rest of us? It seems fair to say that they insist on using these alternative terms because they are not comfortable with their state but are not willing to put forth the effort to change it. Does this mean that the rest of us are obligated not to acknowledge their unwillingness to expend the effort to change their condition?
That strikes me as a trifle unfair, but then I don't really go out of my way to mock fat people that often and I'm not fat myself, so I might just be external to this whole thing.
posted by Ryvar at 8:43 PM on March 22, 2005
I can't even believe that I'm doing this, but...
how you became "Duke" of your local Society for Creative Anachronism "fiefdom" at a festive revel featuring cardboard "swords" and faux-fur "capes" and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement.
The SCA doesn't use cardboard swords. We use wooden swords, and handmade replica armor. SCA fighting is pretty easy to learn, but fairly difficult to become good at, and you have to be willing to get an awful lot of bruises along the way. I know two or three Dukes -- its a title you earn by being really, really good at the sport/art of SCA hand-to-hand combat, not just something you decide to call yourself one day -- and I'd be happy to introduce you to them. I think you'd be surprised at how skillful they are when swinging that sword.
Yes, ok, the basic 'required' level of authenticity in the SCA is not very hardcore. But my experience -- after doing this for over 15 years -- is that lots of people join because they think it will be a good party or they want to meet girls with large breasts, but the ones who stay for more than just the summer actually do learn quite a lot (sometimes quite involuntarily) -- and, for us, different from, say a group where you get a list of things to buy and aren't necessarily encouraged to think about what you're buying and why its used, often interest spurs independent research on a topic of interest. So, we make learning fun.
Renn Faires and the SCA are very different - mainly because when we host events and classes and such, we want everyone to participate and learn. We're not performing for an audience. Does the SCA become an enormous part of some people's lives? Sure. But so does the Lion's club, or bowling.
By being in the SCA I've been encouraged to do lots of independent research, including translating 15th century cookbooks and then cooking from them, sewing, weaving, spinning, and art. By being in the SCA, I've met lots of people who value history and critical thinking skills. I've learned how to brew my own beer (and make Mead -- a different thing) and how to bake bread in an open fire. Yes, I've also been to some really good parties.
Laugh it up if you want to ('cause, in a way, putting on costumes and fighting with sticks is really funny) but at least get your facts straight, ok?
posted by anastasiav at 9:12 PM on March 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
how you became "Duke" of your local Society for Creative Anachronism "fiefdom" at a festive revel featuring cardboard "swords" and faux-fur "capes" and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement.
The SCA doesn't use cardboard swords. We use wooden swords, and handmade replica armor. SCA fighting is pretty easy to learn, but fairly difficult to become good at, and you have to be willing to get an awful lot of bruises along the way. I know two or three Dukes -- its a title you earn by being really, really good at the sport/art of SCA hand-to-hand combat, not just something you decide to call yourself one day -- and I'd be happy to introduce you to them. I think you'd be surprised at how skillful they are when swinging that sword.
Yes, ok, the basic 'required' level of authenticity in the SCA is not very hardcore. But my experience -- after doing this for over 15 years -- is that lots of people join because they think it will be a good party or they want to meet girls with large breasts, but the ones who stay for more than just the summer actually do learn quite a lot (sometimes quite involuntarily) -- and, for us, different from, say a group where you get a list of things to buy and aren't necessarily encouraged to think about what you're buying and why its used, often interest spurs independent research on a topic of interest. So, we make learning fun.
Renn Faires and the SCA are very different - mainly because when we host events and classes and such, we want everyone to participate and learn. We're not performing for an audience. Does the SCA become an enormous part of some people's lives? Sure. But so does the Lion's club, or bowling.
By being in the SCA I've been encouraged to do lots of independent research, including translating 15th century cookbooks and then cooking from them, sewing, weaving, spinning, and art. By being in the SCA, I've met lots of people who value history and critical thinking skills. I've learned how to brew my own beer (and make Mead -- a different thing) and how to bake bread in an open fire. Yes, I've also been to some really good parties.
Laugh it up if you want to ('cause, in a way, putting on costumes and fighting with sticks is really funny) but at least get your facts straight, ok?
posted by anastasiav at 9:12 PM on March 22, 2005 [1 favorite]
Great comment, anstasiav. A friend of mine dragged me to an SCA event once and I grabbed one of the styrofoam-around-wood "swords" and went at it for a couple hours. Like most young males I thought I'd be pretty hot shit - and while I wasn't bad per se most of the guys with any significant reach on me were a huge challenge. Some of the skill demonstrated by the longtimers was extremely impressive, I'll give them that. I'm a little too self-conscious to ever give it more than the old college try, though.
posted by Ryvar at 9:33 PM on March 22, 2005
posted by Ryvar at 9:33 PM on March 22, 2005
Ryvar: I think that's exactly it...this is an ego/esteem/guilt power trio...
I don't go out of my way to mock [insert target demographic] either, but I won't pass up a perfect opportunity. That goes against my sense o' humor.
posted by schyler523 at 9:33 PM on March 22, 2005
I don't go out of my way to mock [insert target demographic] either, but I won't pass up a perfect opportunity. That goes against my sense o' humor.
posted by schyler523 at 9:33 PM on March 22, 2005
anastasiav writes "...Renn Faires and the SCA are very different - mainly because when we host events and classes and such, we want everyone to participate and learn.... Laugh it up if you want to ('cause, in a way, putting on costumes and fighting with sticks is really funny) but at least get your facts straight, ok?"
Yeah, actually, many many years ago, I was tangentially involved with a SCA group -- although never enough to be authentic, I did win a very inauthentic "Best Groveling" award.
I was firing for effect, after having been rather sorely provoked, when I wrote "how you became 'Duke' of your local Society for Creative Anachronism 'fiefdom' at a festive revel featuring cardboard 'swords' and faux-fur 'capes' and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement", and you're right, the SCA is significantly more serious than Ren-Fests.
I should have said "became 'King and Chief Mead-Guzzler' of your local Ren-Fest" or "27th level Druid at your AD&D game" (yes, yes, those can be done (semi-) seriously too, so any Dungeon Masters reading should at this time make a saving throw against getting in a snit, and yes, I know 27th level is way higher than any normal D&D game supports, that's part of the joke, and no, I don't want to learn about D&D levels or D&D druids) or "Head Comic Book Guy at your Simpsons re-enactment".
And I should have written "Milwaukee's Best Mead", "Michelob's".
Thank you anastasiav, for the level-headed and judicious explication of level of authenticity in the SCA, and for allowing that it can be funny as well as authentic.
posted by orthogonality at 10:30 PM on March 22, 2005
Yeah, actually, many many years ago, I was tangentially involved with a SCA group -- although never enough to be authentic, I did win a very inauthentic "Best Groveling" award.
I was firing for effect, after having been rather sorely provoked, when I wrote "how you became 'Duke' of your local Society for Creative Anachronism 'fiefdom' at a festive revel featuring cardboard 'swords' and faux-fur 'capes' and Michelob's Best Mead in your mother's basement", and you're right, the SCA is significantly more serious than Ren-Fests.
I should have said "became 'King and Chief Mead-Guzzler' of your local Ren-Fest" or "27th level Druid at your AD&D game" (yes, yes, those can be done (semi-) seriously too, so any Dungeon Masters reading should at this time make a saving throw against getting in a snit, and yes, I know 27th level is way higher than any normal D&D game supports, that's part of the joke, and no, I don't want to learn about D&D levels or D&D druids) or "Head Comic Book Guy at your Simpsons re-enactment".
And I should have written "Milwaukee's Best Mead", "Michelob's".
Thank you anastasiav, for the level-headed and judicious explication of level of authenticity in the SCA, and for allowing that it can be funny as well as authentic.
posted by orthogonality at 10:30 PM on March 22, 2005
But the people who insist that others should not call them fat - doesn't that smack of a load of guilt regarding their condition being externalized and thrust upon the rest of us?
What people are you talking about? That's a fine theory and all, but other than ortho's vague reference to Craigs List personals, there's been no examples of the reality of this bit of PC dogma.
Actually ortho's ability to post attacks like "perhaps with his blood sugar on the rise after polishing off two dozen donuts." on a supposedly PC-bastion such as metafilter prove that our society is generally tolerate of fat bashing.
If he had said "two slices of watermelon" after having berated felix for being black, or "two matzos" after calling attention to felix's religion...well I believe you'd agree the result would have been even uglier than this thread has been.
This is my final post on MetaFilter. I use 'danostuporstar' elsewhere on the 'net, including business relationships within the BBW community. I cannot afford to have the name slandered by whatever troll happens by. So, congrats, ortho, you can put a notch on your belt or headboard or wherever you keep track of how many people's fun you've ruined on MeFi. I'm sorry that I'm such a tiny fish in this sea, but I'm sure you'll land a bigger one soon enough.
Thanks to everyone else for allowing me to enjoy the existence of this community.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:34 AM on March 23, 2005
What people are you talking about? That's a fine theory and all, but other than ortho's vague reference to Craigs List personals, there's been no examples of the reality of this bit of PC dogma.
Actually ortho's ability to post attacks like "perhaps with his blood sugar on the rise after polishing off two dozen donuts." on a supposedly PC-bastion such as metafilter prove that our society is generally tolerate of fat bashing.
If he had said "two slices of watermelon" after having berated felix for being black, or "two matzos" after calling attention to felix's religion...well I believe you'd agree the result would have been even uglier than this thread has been.
This is my final post on MetaFilter. I use 'danostuporstar' elsewhere on the 'net, including business relationships within the BBW community. I cannot afford to have the name slandered by whatever troll happens by. So, congrats, ortho, you can put a notch on your belt or headboard or wherever you keep track of how many people's fun you've ruined on MeFi. I'm sorry that I'm such a tiny fish in this sea, but I'm sure you'll land a bigger one soon enough.
Thanks to everyone else for allowing me to enjoy the existence of this community.
posted by danOstuporStar at 7:34 AM on March 23, 2005
"This is my final post on MetaFilter. I use 'danostuporstar' elsewhere on the 'net, including business relationships within the BBW community. I cannot afford to have the name slandered by whatever troll happens by."
You could just, y'know, register another name...
posted by Bugbread at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2005
You could just, y'know, register another name...
posted by Bugbread at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2005
danOstuporStar writes "This is my final post on MetaFilter. I use 'danostuporstar' elsewhere on the 'net, including business relationships within the BBW community. I cannot afford to have the name slandered by whatever troll happens by."
Well, dan, if it's a slander, your friends and associates will see that. On the other hand, if what I wrote was correct, that you posted about Velvet Vulvas to mock them, well, your friends and associates will see that too. And surely your friends and associates are perceptive enough to distinguish what I wrote from what you wrote? Surely they'll realize you're not responsible for my actions. Conversely, blaming me for pointing out what you posted -- and why -- doesn't make me responsible for what you decided to post.
posted by orthogonality at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2005
Well, dan, if it's a slander, your friends and associates will see that. On the other hand, if what I wrote was correct, that you posted about Velvet Vulvas to mock them, well, your friends and associates will see that too. And surely your friends and associates are perceptive enough to distinguish what I wrote from what you wrote? Surely they'll realize you're not responsible for my actions. Conversely, blaming me for pointing out what you posted -- and why -- doesn't make me responsible for what you decided to post.
posted by orthogonality at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2005
Well, dan, if it's a slander, your friends and associates will see that.
Don't try to ruin a good hissy-fit, please. Dramatic exits are what make this site fun.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2005
Don't try to ruin a good hissy-fit, please. Dramatic exits are what make this site fun.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2005
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