just good ol' boys? wtf?
March 28, 2005 5:11 PM Subscribe
Integrated Planning Guidance, Fiscal Years 2005-2011 --a Dept. of Homeland Security document outlining groups to watch out for in the coming years completely omits rightwing and militia groups and individuals as a threat. Clearly listed in the document? ELF and ALF--leftwing groups that destroy property, but have never murdered, unlike Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph and the many others who have arsenals and plenty of hatred, and have already proven themselves killers.
completely omits rightwing and militia groups
Like Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda, Jemaah Islamiyah, HAMAS, Hezbollah, Abu Sayyaf, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Al-Jihad, Salafist, et al?
unlike Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph
I don't remember McVeigh or Rudolph acting on behalf of known terrorist group, though they reportedly had financial backing by one group or the other.
Has anyone seen the document so we can verify one way or the other?
posted by dhoyt at 6:35 PM on March 28, 2005
Like Islamic Jihad, al-Qaeda, Jemaah Islamiyah, HAMAS, Hezbollah, Abu Sayyaf, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Al-Jihad, Salafist, et al?
unlike Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph
I don't remember McVeigh or Rudolph acting on behalf of known terrorist group, though they reportedly had financial backing by one group or the other.
Has anyone seen the document so we can verify one way or the other?
posted by dhoyt at 6:35 PM on March 28, 2005
You don't remember the fellow in Texas building a cyanide bomb powerful enough to kill thousands of people?
posted by euphorb at 6:47 PM on March 28, 2005
posted by euphorb at 6:47 PM on March 28, 2005
ok, dhoyt--completely omits domestic rightwing and militia groups made up of white US citizens.
The guy who works for the Congressional Quarterly has seen and read them.
any other attempts to derail?
posted by amberglow at 6:47 PM on March 28, 2005
The guy who works for the Congressional Quarterly has seen and read them.
any other attempts to derail?
posted by amberglow at 6:47 PM on March 28, 2005
You don't remember the fellow in Texas building a cyanide bomb powerful enough to kill thousands of people?
The document in question purportedly outlines groups to be on the watch for—what group is Krar affiliated with? What groups were McVeigh & Rudolph officially representing? When Krar was arrested, I remember the word "terrorist" being thrown around rather liberally by the media & government both despite the fact that he's white and homegrown.
The guy who works for the Congressional Quarterly has seen and read them. It's a legitimate request, not a derail.
A guy I've never heard of describing a document he saw is clearly not the same as having it for ourselves to read, amberglow. It's a legitimate request, not a derail.
posted by dhoyt at 7:04 PM on March 28, 2005
The document in question purportedly outlines groups to be on the watch for—what group is Krar affiliated with? What groups were McVeigh & Rudolph officially representing? When Krar was arrested, I remember the word "terrorist" being thrown around rather liberally by the media & government both despite the fact that he's white and homegrown.
The guy who works for the Congressional Quarterly has seen and read them. It's a legitimate request, not a derail.
A guy I've never heard of describing a document he saw is clearly not the same as having it for ourselves to read, amberglow. It's a legitimate request, not a derail.
posted by dhoyt at 7:04 PM on March 28, 2005
You don't remember the fellow in Texas building a cyanide bomb powerful enough to kill thousands of people?
That would be the guy who get a lesser sentence than the federal mandatory minimum for dope possession, right?
posted by clevershark at 7:12 PM on March 28, 2005
That would be the guy who get a lesser sentence than the federal mandatory minimum for dope possession, right?
posted by clevershark at 7:12 PM on March 28, 2005
oops... that would of course be "who got a lesser sentence..."
posted by clevershark at 7:12 PM on March 28, 2005
posted by clevershark at 7:12 PM on March 28, 2005
Pure politics. Sickening. They don't even try to hide it anymore.
But maybe...just maybe people are beginning to wake up in light of the Schiavo case?
posted by UseyurBrain at 7:29 PM on March 28, 2005
But maybe...just maybe people are beginning to wake up in light of the Schiavo case?
posted by UseyurBrain at 7:29 PM on March 28, 2005
Krar... Rudolph...
The New Jersey Militia and the Army of God, respectively.
posted by queen zixi at 9:16 PM on March 28, 2005
The New Jersey Militia and the Army of God, respectively.
posted by queen zixi at 9:16 PM on March 28, 2005
Jeff Luers was sentenced to almost 23 years as a domestic terrorist in Eugene Oregon. He started a small fire at a car dealership and burned three SUV's. How can anyone possibly say that this sentence is in line with the crime?
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:14 PM on March 28, 2005
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:14 PM on March 28, 2005
completely omits rightwing and militia groups
yeah, should be "omits domestic rightwing militia groups"
and although McVeigh may not have been a member himself...
...there was considerable evidence that he sympathized with and espoused their beliefs.
He voiced their ideas in conversations, he wrote letters expressing them, he read their literature and attended their meetings. And he lived, worked and traded weapons in areas where the paramilitary groups enjoy considerable support, according to numerous interviews.
Which is a lot more contact than some of the supposed al Qaeda terrorists had.
posted by destro at 10:29 PM on March 28, 2005
yeah, should be "omits domestic rightwing militia groups"
and although McVeigh may not have been a member himself...
...there was considerable evidence that he sympathized with and espoused their beliefs.
He voiced their ideas in conversations, he wrote letters expressing them, he read their literature and attended their meetings. And he lived, worked and traded weapons in areas where the paramilitary groups enjoy considerable support, according to numerous interviews.
Which is a lot more contact than some of the supposed al Qaeda terrorists had.
posted by destro at 10:29 PM on March 28, 2005
what he said (and queen too)
We're ignoring these people at our peril. They're more of a threat than Al Qaeda or Hamas or any of the foreign individuals or groups.
posted by amberglow at 8:35 AM on March 29, 2005
We're ignoring these people at our peril. They're more of a threat than Al Qaeda or Hamas or any of the foreign individuals or groups.
posted by amberglow at 8:35 AM on March 29, 2005
I'm sure the omissions were completely unintentional and will be rectified right away. [cough]
Dave Niewart will be all over this. Headed over there to check out the truth from a person oen can actually trust. (unlike Bush cronies)
They could have contacted the SPLC and obtained a complete and well documented list of these types. Wonder why they never thought of that? ;-)
posted by nofundy at 3:20 PM on March 29, 2005
Dave Niewart will be all over this. Headed over there to check out the truth from a person oen can actually trust. (unlike Bush cronies)
They could have contacted the SPLC and obtained a complete and well documented list of these types. Wonder why they never thought of that? ;-)
posted by nofundy at 3:20 PM on March 29, 2005
I like how after 9/11 everyone was suddenly an anti-terrorist expert.
Later on some of them got government jobs.
Many of them strangely were of the same color and hairstyle.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on March 29, 2005
Later on some of them got government jobs.
Many of them strangely were of the same color and hairstyle.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:37 PM on March 29, 2005
The Rudolphs of America ... Yet, he was able to evade police and FBI agents for five years. How could that happen? Where and from whom did he get his funds? What organizations did he belong to? Who were his associates? The questions have not been satisfactorily answered. And they may not be because the government has its "lone nut" suspected murderer and there may be no need to dig any further.
But it's well known that some in the backwater, intensely religious North Carolina town where Rudolph lived, sported "Run Rudolph Run" tee shirts when he was identified as the Atlanta bombing suspect. When he was captured some called him a patriot, and claimed that he was driven to his deadly acts by a liberal, and Godless, federal government. Rudolph's attorneys plan to spend time explaining to the jurors why so many people in that neck of the woods thought (and still think) Rudolph's a hero, maybe even a victim.
The notion that terrorism only comes in the form of al Qaeda attacks presumes that gender and racially motivated violence are isolated acts committed by a handful of quacks, and unreconstructed bigots, and that state authorities vigorously report and prosecute the perpetrators of these crimes is fiction. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:26 PM on April 13, 2005
But it's well known that some in the backwater, intensely religious North Carolina town where Rudolph lived, sported "Run Rudolph Run" tee shirts when he was identified as the Atlanta bombing suspect. When he was captured some called him a patriot, and claimed that he was driven to his deadly acts by a liberal, and Godless, federal government. Rudolph's attorneys plan to spend time explaining to the jurors why so many people in that neck of the woods thought (and still think) Rudolph's a hero, maybe even a victim.
The notion that terrorism only comes in the form of al Qaeda attacks presumes that gender and racially motivated violence are isolated acts committed by a handful of quacks, and unreconstructed bigots, and that state authorities vigorously report and prosecute the perpetrators of these crimes is fiction. ...
posted by amberglow at 9:26 PM on April 13, 2005
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A lot of people said, ‘I’m fighting against the Zionist Occupied Government, I’m not here to kill children,” Ellis explained.
Oh, at least they have their priorities straight, and GOD on their side. Who need a stupid list to be a terrorist?
/sarcasm
posted by schyler523 at 5:31 PM on March 28, 2005