Soldier Rap
June 6, 2005 10:24 AM Subscribe
Rap is becoming the pulse of the Iraq War. We've talked about the Mess O' Potamia already today, but the idea of troops making uncensored music about their day to day in an overseas warzone I think creates a unique situation. For the first time, music will be made there and come back to the people back home, rather than the other way around. The downside is that if you just plain don't like rap music, you're not going to be exposed to it. Sadly, those may be the people who need to hear it most. (via Newsweek).
If you plain don't like rap, you are a close minded simpleton.
posted by iamck at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by iamck at 12:12 PM on June 6, 2005
Rap music is an oxymoron. If that makes me a simpleton, then fuck you too.
posted by alumshubby at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by alumshubby at 12:23 PM on June 6, 2005
I posted the video to Metachat earlier, and someone pointed out how it could actually be propaganda. It's inconceivable that they could have a makeshift recording studio in a camp, and show what looks like pretty raw video without permission.
posted by amberglow at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by amberglow at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2005
Assignment for today: Compare and contrast between these guys, and say... Immortal Technique.
posted by SweetJesus at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by SweetJesus at 12:28 PM on June 6, 2005
not to fan the flames, but if you can't accept that some people have their own tastes and preferences, then ... ? The aesthetic sense is not universal.... come on. Not everyone who doesn't like rap is a hater. There are forms to genres and some people don't receive some forms so favorably. There's no need to be hatin'.
I heard a cool rap on WRPI, a local college station a few months ago. It featured a guy rapping "Where are the weapons of mass destruction - we been searchin for months and we ain't found nothing". It was pretty good.
posted by modernerd at 12:31 PM on June 6, 2005
I heard a cool rap on WRPI, a local college station a few months ago. It featured a guy rapping "Where are the weapons of mass destruction - we been searchin for months and we ain't found nothing". It was pretty good.
posted by modernerd at 12:31 PM on June 6, 2005
If you plain don't like rap,
Nope, me neither.
you are a close minded simpleton
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Sadly, those may be the people who need to hear it most.
I don't get this, Indiebass. Are you referring to, like, senators and rich old guys who wear suits and aren't in the entertainment business?
posted by scratch at 12:38 PM on June 6, 2005
Nope, me neither.
you are a close minded simpleton
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Sadly, those may be the people who need to hear it most.
I don't get this, Indiebass. Are you referring to, like, senators and rich old guys who wear suits and aren't in the entertainment business?
posted by scratch at 12:38 PM on June 6, 2005
It's inconceivable...
posted by amberglow at 12:28 PM PST on June 6
It's only inconceivable to people with preconceived notions who are surprised when reality doesn't fit with said notions.
posted by dios at 12:42 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by amberglow at 12:28 PM PST on June 6
It's only inconceivable to people with preconceived notions who are surprised when reality doesn't fit with said notions.
posted by dios at 12:42 PM on June 6, 2005
For the first time, music will be made there and come back to the people back home, rather than the other way around
hmmmm....eh. maybe but this is primarily due to technology.
In some instances, soldiers used to rig tape players, mics, or even platter players to field radio systems and do unauthorized broadcasts. These were only broadcast over short distances and... these stations were generally short-lived.
(They would have reached home if they powerful enough transmitters)
so no music was made on the battle feild and brought back and reproduced or put to sheet music?
I guess the importence of this post of the rapid conveyance of music which is cool.
posted by clavdivs at 12:45 PM on June 6, 2005
hmmmm....eh. maybe but this is primarily due to technology.
In some instances, soldiers used to rig tape players, mics, or even platter players to field radio systems and do unauthorized broadcasts. These were only broadcast over short distances and... these stations were generally short-lived.
(They would have reached home if they powerful enough transmitters)
so no music was made on the battle feild and brought back and reproduced or put to sheet music?
I guess the importence of this post of the rapid conveyance of music which is cool.
posted by clavdivs at 12:45 PM on June 6, 2005
scratch writes 'Are you referring to, like, senators and rich old guys who wear suits and aren't in the entertainment business?'
Basically, I was referring to folks who consider "Rock and/or Roll" to be the devil's music. And if you have a problem with Tom Jones or The Monkees, I don't think Ludacris and 50 Cent are going to be played in your house either. Painting with a broad brush, yes, but exceptions aside, by and large these are the folks who support the war with no real first hand account of what's going on over there.
As for the "I *heart* rap" no "I *skull* rap" comments, some people like it and some people don't. That's not the point. The POINT is, and thanks to 445supermag for recognizing this, that this could be grassroots modern "folk" music that, for the first time, is coming from soldiers in the field as events happen. I just thought that this was like, WAY significant in that respect.
posted by indiebass at 12:54 PM on June 6, 2005
Basically, I was referring to folks who consider "Rock and/or Roll" to be the devil's music. And if you have a problem with Tom Jones or The Monkees, I don't think Ludacris and 50 Cent are going to be played in your house either. Painting with a broad brush, yes, but exceptions aside, by and large these are the folks who support the war with no real first hand account of what's going on over there.
As for the "I *heart* rap" no "I *skull* rap" comments, some people like it and some people don't. That's not the point. The POINT is, and thanks to 445supermag for recognizing this, that this could be grassroots modern "folk" music that, for the first time, is coming from soldiers in the field as events happen. I just thought that this was like, WAY significant in that respect.
posted by indiebass at 12:54 PM on June 6, 2005
So was the video pro-Iraq war or against it?
I can't figure out the lyrics, or it'd probably be clear?
Can I get a transcript? and a shout out to the brudduhs?
posted by Balisong at 12:58 PM on June 6, 2005
I can't figure out the lyrics, or it'd probably be clear?
Can I get a transcript? and a shout out to the brudduhs?
posted by Balisong at 12:58 PM on June 6, 2005
It's only inconceivable to people with preconceived notions who are surprised when reality doesn't fit with said notions.
Or to people who don't remember that they cracked down on video and pics released by soldiers after Abu Ghraib.
posted by amberglow at 1:10 PM on June 6, 2005
Or to people who don't remember that they cracked down on video and pics released by soldiers after Abu Ghraib.
posted by amberglow at 1:10 PM on June 6, 2005
"Where are the weapons of mass destruction - we been searchin for months and we ain't found nothing"
That would be the opening track off Black Dialogue by the Perceptionists. You can buy it from Def Jux, but I think Mr. Lif's (who, along with Akrobatik and Fakts One, make up the Perceptionists) I, Phantom or Emergency Rations are much better albums.
posted by SweetJesus at 1:17 PM on June 6, 2005
That would be the opening track off Black Dialogue by the Perceptionists. You can buy it from Def Jux, but I think Mr. Lif's (who, along with Akrobatik and Fakts One, make up the Perceptionists) I, Phantom or Emergency Rations are much better albums.
posted by SweetJesus at 1:17 PM on June 6, 2005
If you plain don't like rap, you are a close minded simpleton.
posted by iamck at 12:12 PM PST on June 6 [!]
How about if you have a convoluted rationalization for not liking rap? I enjoy instrumental virtuosity and don't like electronic sounds. Rap also sounds "empty" to me, too much space without sound. I love the sound of an overdriven guitar amp (truncated sine wave). The sharp edges on the waveform induce many harmonics, the Fourier Transform of a square pulse is a sinc function, (sine x)/x. Come to think of it, this Fourier transform is sort a unifying theme among things that I enjoy, heavy metal, a Harley with open pipes, a high performance V8 with loud exhaust, ripping off a 30 round mag as fast as I can pull the trigger, and of course, during working hours, pulsed (echo detected) electron paramagnetic resonance.
posted by 445supermag at 1:17 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by iamck at 12:12 PM PST on June 6 [!]
How about if you have a convoluted rationalization for not liking rap? I enjoy instrumental virtuosity and don't like electronic sounds. Rap also sounds "empty" to me, too much space without sound. I love the sound of an overdriven guitar amp (truncated sine wave). The sharp edges on the waveform induce many harmonics, the Fourier Transform of a square pulse is a sinc function, (sine x)/x. Come to think of it, this Fourier transform is sort a unifying theme among things that I enjoy, heavy metal, a Harley with open pipes, a high performance V8 with loud exhaust, ripping off a 30 round mag as fast as I can pull the trigger, and of course, during working hours, pulsed (echo detected) electron paramagnetic resonance.
posted by 445supermag at 1:17 PM on June 6, 2005
What is the penalty for unauthorized use and release of military video? How did these folks get these snippets of tape?
posted by amberglow at 1:30 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by amberglow at 1:30 PM on June 6, 2005
I recognized quite a few of the video shots from video available on the net.
posted by futureproof at 1:36 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by futureproof at 1:36 PM on June 6, 2005
Basically, I was referring to folks who consider "Rock and/or Roll" to be the devil's music. And if you have a problem with Tom Jones or The Monkees, I don't think Ludacris and 50 Cent are going to be played in your house either. Painting with a broad brush, yes, but exceptions aside, by and large these are the folks who support the war with no real first hand account of what's going on over there.
Hmm. Big generalization. An argument could be made that the people who think rock is the devil's music are the same people whose sons/brothers/husbands are actually Over There.
As for the "I *heart* rap" no "I *skull* rap" comments, some people like it and some people don't. That's not the point. The POINT is, and thanks to 445supermag for recognizing this, that this could be grassroots modern "folk" music that, for the first time, is coming from soldiers in the field as events happen. I just thought that this was like, WAY significant in that respect.
You know, that's interesting, because I am a confirmed rap hater--it just doesn't speak to me--but one thing that intrigues me about rap & hiphop is it seems to have that in common with my childhood sweetheart, punk rock. Both are absolutely folk music in that so much is made by the fans for the fans, and often about the fans. Critics of both genres say "It's just noise--it doesn't require any talent" (which is very often not true). A labor of love, not a product for sale in the marketplace. And then of course there's the "protest music" angle. Yes, definitely "folk."
posted by scratch at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2005
Hmm. Big generalization. An argument could be made that the people who think rock is the devil's music are the same people whose sons/brothers/husbands are actually Over There.
As for the "I *heart* rap" no "I *skull* rap" comments, some people like it and some people don't. That's not the point. The POINT is, and thanks to 445supermag for recognizing this, that this could be grassroots modern "folk" music that, for the first time, is coming from soldiers in the field as events happen. I just thought that this was like, WAY significant in that respect.
You know, that's interesting, because I am a confirmed rap hater--it just doesn't speak to me--but one thing that intrigues me about rap & hiphop is it seems to have that in common with my childhood sweetheart, punk rock. Both are absolutely folk music in that so much is made by the fans for the fans, and often about the fans. Critics of both genres say "It's just noise--it doesn't require any talent" (which is very often not true). A labor of love, not a product for sale in the marketplace. And then of course there's the "protest music" angle. Yes, definitely "folk."
posted by scratch at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2005
As to the technical capability for these guys to have a makeshift recording studio over there - I've got one built around a mac mini that fits in a backpack, mics, mixer, computer etc. I'd imagine a decently powerful laptop, a copy of cubase or whatever, and a decent mic would get the jearb done.
posted by stenseng at 2:25 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by stenseng at 2:25 PM on June 6, 2005
To follow up on Stenseng, if you listen to some of the recordings, it is very VERY raw. And i don't mean raw, like, with tons of swearing. I mean, its not a stretch to believe it was recorded in a plywood box with mattresses. And, again, from what I've listened to, none of it paints a very good portrait of life on the ground over there at all. If anything, it made me even sadder just to think about it.
And scratch, despite out disagreement on a few things it seems we've found some common ground. This is where MeFi gives you the warm and fuzzies. (For the record, i never thought i'd see myself even on sort-of-the-same side as dios ever! This is an amazing place we're in)
posted by indiebass at 2:40 PM on June 6, 2005
And scratch, despite out disagreement on a few things it seems we've found some common ground. This is where MeFi gives you the warm and fuzzies. (For the record, i never thought i'd see myself even on sort-of-the-same side as dios ever! This is an amazing place we're in)
posted by indiebass at 2:40 PM on June 6, 2005
I liked rap back when it had, you know, melody. I haven't listened to it since gangsta took over, and (with all due respect to iamck, who isn't a very good advertisement for the music) I have no interest in doing so; I'll just put on my old Grandmaster Flash records when I feel the need. But that's not m-m-m-my generation over there fighting this horrible, needless war, and I'm glad they have a musical means of expressing themselves and getting the word out about what they're experiencing. Like indiebass said.
posted by languagehat at 2:44 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by languagehat at 2:44 PM on June 6, 2005
For the first time, music will be made there and come back to the people back home, rather than the other way around.
I have to point out that this is hardly the "First Time". I thihk this is a great trend and post, but let's not get so excited about our news toys that we forget that it used to be much more this way than it is now.
That is, it used to be the norm for soldiers and workers in far-off places to create music and art about their experiences which would then find its way back home. A quick look at music history and the lyrics of still extant folk music should verify this.
So I would argue that what's changing is:
1) in the last century, cultural and musical creation was largely removed from the realm of everyday life. There're lots of reasons for this, but new tools are allowing us to return to how it used to be, when everyday people could create art and music for and about themselves.
2) the scale at which this process takes place (temporally and spatially) is dramatically changed - we don't have to wait for those far-off musicians to return to hear their music, and we can share it around the world almost instantly.
But you ignore thousands of years of history when you say this is the "first time" the creative work flowed in this direction.
posted by freebird at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2005
I have to point out that this is hardly the "First Time". I thihk this is a great trend and post, but let's not get so excited about our news toys that we forget that it used to be much more this way than it is now.
That is, it used to be the norm for soldiers and workers in far-off places to create music and art about their experiences which would then find its way back home. A quick look at music history and the lyrics of still extant folk music should verify this.
So I would argue that what's changing is:
1) in the last century, cultural and musical creation was largely removed from the realm of everyday life. There're lots of reasons for this, but new tools are allowing us to return to how it used to be, when everyday people could create art and music for and about themselves.
2) the scale at which this process takes place (temporally and spatially) is dramatically changed - we don't have to wait for those far-off musicians to return to hear their music, and we can share it around the world almost instantly.
But you ignore thousands of years of history when you say this is the "first time" the creative work flowed in this direction.
posted by freebird at 2:56 PM on June 6, 2005
Apologies, that was a preemptive strike for the inevitable rap bashing that I was sure would flood the gates. I just hate to see something worthy being ignored because of the kneejerk response that is (usually) borne of poor understanding and lack of exposure to the art form.
posted by iamck at 4:11 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by iamck at 4:11 PM on June 6, 2005
when it had, you know, melody
I'll just put on my old Grandmaster Flash records
And yet, they often sample the same.exact.songs. as people like Grandmaster Flash. There's still dozens upon dozens of acts that produce melodic rap.
posted by shawnj at 4:28 PM on June 6, 2005
I'll just put on my old Grandmaster Flash records
And yet, they often sample the same.exact.songs. as people like Grandmaster Flash. There's still dozens upon dozens of acts that produce melodic rap.
posted by shawnj at 4:28 PM on June 6, 2005
You know, that's interesting, because I am a confirmed rap hater--it just doesn't speak to me--but one thing that intrigues me about rap & hiphop is it seems to have that in common with my childhood sweetheart, punk rock. Both are absolutely folk music in that so much is made by the fans for the fans, and often about the fans. Critics of both genres say "It's just noise--it doesn't require any talent" (which is very often not true). A labor of love, not a product for sale in the marketplace. And then of course there's the "protest music" angle. Yes, definitely "folk."
I respect hip hop, though I don't listen to much of it, and respect that it's the idiom of expression for these soldiers, but I cannot love or even like rap, simply for the reason that gangsta seems to me to go against everything that scratch described as giving the genre value-- when I see 50 Cent posturing and dropping hundred dollars bills in his videos, and those endless slow motion shots of myriads of half naked women, I don't think "voice of the people", I think obsessive materialism, a vacant and abusive morality, and macho status-mongering at its worst. (Don't even get me started on Snoop Dogg.) So broadly I would say yes to scratch's appreciation of the impulse behind some hip hop, but no to rap, as I understand it.
That said, I can only cheer the soldiers who are creating this art (and there's no way I'm not going to argue that it is, indeed, art) and thereby communicating their experience o the larger world. Good for them.
posted by jokeefe at 4:33 PM on June 6, 2005
I respect hip hop, though I don't listen to much of it, and respect that it's the idiom of expression for these soldiers, but I cannot love or even like rap, simply for the reason that gangsta seems to me to go against everything that scratch described as giving the genre value-- when I see 50 Cent posturing and dropping hundred dollars bills in his videos, and those endless slow motion shots of myriads of half naked women, I don't think "voice of the people", I think obsessive materialism, a vacant and abusive morality, and macho status-mongering at its worst. (Don't even get me started on Snoop Dogg.) So broadly I would say yes to scratch's appreciation of the impulse behind some hip hop, but no to rap, as I understand it.
That said, I can only cheer the soldiers who are creating this art (and there's no way I'm not going to argue that it is, indeed, art) and thereby communicating their experience o the larger world. Good for them.
posted by jokeefe at 4:33 PM on June 6, 2005
Jokeefe: Yeah, that's why I hate rock and roll. When people like Kid Rock or The Eagles sing about cocaine and excess, it's just status mongering at its worst.
No... Wait a second... There are a variety of artists in every genre. Some are good, some are bad. Some are vapid, some are deep.
Judging rap by 50 Cent is like judging democracy by Tom DeLay.
posted by klangklangston at 5:01 PM on June 6, 2005
No... Wait a second... There are a variety of artists in every genre. Some are good, some are bad. Some are vapid, some are deep.
Judging rap by 50 Cent is like judging democracy by Tom DeLay.
posted by klangklangston at 5:01 PM on June 6, 2005
Did someone say melodic rap? (.ram)
and for modernerd, here's the perceptionists - memorial day. (flash)
Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
We've been looking for months and we ain't found nothing.
Please Mr. President, tell us something.
We knew from the beginning that your ass was bluffing.
posted by joedan at 5:04 PM on June 6, 2005
and for modernerd, here's the perceptionists - memorial day. (flash)
Where are the weapons of mass destruction?
We've been looking for months and we ain't found nothing.
Please Mr. President, tell us something.
We knew from the beginning that your ass was bluffing.
posted by joedan at 5:04 PM on June 6, 2005
Interesting post but ... by and large these are the folks... nasty distracting generalization there, heh Archie could relate to that thought process. Anyone who doesn't like rap is probably a hateful warmonger?
The post is anti-war? Preaching to the choir on this site and no arg here but:
The post is pro-rap? See right or wrong, this is just going to obscure the first point. Rap has a bad rap, related to off-the-chart misogeny, cred (admiration) gained by committing violent crime or preferably receiving bullet wounds, and the murdering cops thing no?
The post is about little guys gaining a voice through their art? Awesome even if it is rap, and I hope the powers that be are smart enought to tune in to the message if not the medium.
new tools are allowing us to return to how it used to be.
Great observation, thanks for the hopeful outlook.
posted by scheptech at 5:17 PM on June 6, 2005
The post is anti-war? Preaching to the choir on this site and no arg here but:
The post is pro-rap? See right or wrong, this is just going to obscure the first point. Rap has a bad rap, related to off-the-chart misogeny, cred (admiration) gained by committing violent crime or preferably receiving bullet wounds, and the murdering cops thing no?
The post is about little guys gaining a voice through their art? Awesome even if it is rap, and I hope the powers that be are smart enought to tune in to the message if not the medium.
new tools are allowing us to return to how it used to be.
Great observation, thanks for the hopeful outlook.
posted by scheptech at 5:17 PM on June 6, 2005
Judging rap by 50 Cent is like judging democracy by Tom DeLay.
I'd say it's more like judging democracy by President Bush: 50 Cent is a hugely popular figure who an enormous number of people "voted" for (bought his album). From a rap "foreigner" perspective, that's what rap is to me. And I'm with jokeef -- for the most part, I don't like it.
But I'd like to sample some of the breadth of rap that you're talking about, klang2ston. I started a "recommend some rap music" to me question in AskMe. (Tried to link, but it's not showing up and I have to run.) Please hope me out.
posted by papercake at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2005
I'd say it's more like judging democracy by President Bush: 50 Cent is a hugely popular figure who an enormous number of people "voted" for (bought his album). From a rap "foreigner" perspective, that's what rap is to me. And I'm with jokeef -- for the most part, I don't like it.
But I'd like to sample some of the breadth of rap that you're talking about, klang2ston. I started a "recommend some rap music" to me question in AskMe. (Tried to link, but it's not showing up and I have to run.) Please hope me out.
posted by papercake at 5:27 PM on June 6, 2005
Does anyone have a transcript? I'm much more interested in the lyrics, but I'm finding them hard to make out.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2005
posted by -harlequin- at 5:38 PM on June 6, 2005
Regarding the video clip being inconceivable, I think you might be missing what is going on (or I might), AFAICS, it is the rap music that was made by the soldiers, and the video clip is promotional material for that music that was assembled later (and quite possibly done back in the USA).
Also, judging by the amount of clips in that video that I've already seen from other sources, I imagine that the same is true of all the clips - it looks like they made the promotional video entirely out of clips that were already public.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:44 PM on June 6, 2005
Also, judging by the amount of clips in that video that I've already seen from other sources, I imagine that the same is true of all the clips - it looks like they made the promotional video entirely out of clips that were already public.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:44 PM on June 6, 2005
I wanted to hate rap years ago, and it's still among my three least favorite genres of music (country and metal being the other two), but then I heard Run DMC. Wow. Since then I've tried other rap artists, and anything else pales in comparison to Run DMC.
Rap can be done well. It's just so rare when it is.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:59 PM on June 6, 2005
Rap can be done well. It's just so rare when it is.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:59 PM on June 6, 2005
The POINT is, and thanks to 445supermag for recognizing this, that this could be grassroots modern "folk" music that, for the first time, is coming from soldiers in the field as events happen. I just thought that this was like, WAY significant in that respect.
Maybe this is a nice modern example, but folk music made by soldiers has a pretty long history. Marching songs/chants are a great example (and aren't they still making those even in the "modern" army?).
Here's an example of a marching song from the U.S. Civil War that turned out, after numerous folk and literary emendations, to be an extremely well known song even today.
It started out as some soldiers horsing around during their marches, making up some joke words to a tune they already knew. Then, as now, the establishment was interested in smoothing over their rough & common ideas in order to make them more fitting and patriotic.
posted by flug at 5:59 PM on June 6, 2005
Maybe this is a nice modern example, but folk music made by soldiers has a pretty long history. Marching songs/chants are a great example (and aren't they still making those even in the "modern" army?).
Here's an example of a marching song from the U.S. Civil War that turned out, after numerous folk and literary emendations, to be an extremely well known song even today.
It started out as some soldiers horsing around during their marches, making up some joke words to a tune they already knew. Then, as now, the establishment was interested in smoothing over their rough & common ideas in order to make them more fitting and patriotic.
posted by flug at 5:59 PM on June 6, 2005
For those who hate rap, I'd like to address a few of the issues that impede the enjoyment of the form. First, appreciating the poetry requires immersing yourself in the slang and structure that's often used, and really takes some getting used to. A rapper like Ghostface Killah (not someone I'd recommend for someone who doesn't like rap at face value) can drop a bombshell of social commentary in a line that slips by so fast you won't even recognize it.
Don't look for the catchy melody, because you very often won't hear it. In many rappers listen for the more subtle elements of harmonization found in jazz music, a walking bassline, a piano or trumpet riff, and a carefully syncopated drum break. Rappers use their voices like a rhythm instrument, and their voice interaction with the drum is incredibly sophisticated. Some melody will appear in the hook or chorus sometimes, extremely well harmonized. Rappers who exemplify these qualities include Nas, Mos Def, The Roots (who are less a rap band then a full blown jazz band with a rapper frontman), Jurassic Five, Tribe Called Quest, Tupac, and even the Notorious B.I.G. if you're not immediately turned off by his extremely violent subject matter. Biggie was a master of using his voice rhythmically.
Oh yeah, and Fifty's a herb.
As far as the soldiers are concerned, this is fascinating stuff, another example of not only the permeation of rap music into American culture (something that doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon) and the low-tech accessibility that led to the creation of rap music in the first place. For the moment, it remains the form of the downtrodden.
posted by ScottMorris at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2005
Don't look for the catchy melody, because you very often won't hear it. In many rappers listen for the more subtle elements of harmonization found in jazz music, a walking bassline, a piano or trumpet riff, and a carefully syncopated drum break. Rappers use their voices like a rhythm instrument, and their voice interaction with the drum is incredibly sophisticated. Some melody will appear in the hook or chorus sometimes, extremely well harmonized. Rappers who exemplify these qualities include Nas, Mos Def, The Roots (who are less a rap band then a full blown jazz band with a rapper frontman), Jurassic Five, Tribe Called Quest, Tupac, and even the Notorious B.I.G. if you're not immediately turned off by his extremely violent subject matter. Biggie was a master of using his voice rhythmically.
Oh yeah, and Fifty's a herb.
As far as the soldiers are concerned, this is fascinating stuff, another example of not only the permeation of rap music into American culture (something that doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon) and the low-tech accessibility that led to the creation of rap music in the first place. For the moment, it remains the form of the downtrodden.
posted by ScottMorris at 6:00 PM on June 6, 2005
I know a lot about the WWI poets, and it's very life-affirming to me that basically they're still venting about the same things. Wilfred Owen, Robert Graves and Siegfried Sassoon (my favorite) would know what these soldiers are talking about.
Oh, and I think that you're giving 50 short shrift. I used to not like him, but the first verse of Hate It or Love It is pure gold. I could go out on a limb and start talking about the role he's playing, but I've probably gone far enough off topic already.
posted by Kattullus at 6:36 PM on June 6, 2005
Oh, and I think that you're giving 50 short shrift. I used to not like him, but the first verse of Hate It or Love It is pure gold. I could go out on a limb and start talking about the role he's playing, but I've probably gone far enough off topic already.
posted by Kattullus at 6:36 PM on June 6, 2005
So this is a rap pile-on thread? Well, indiebass framed it that way, I guess we can blame it on him.
Let me just say that I'm absolutely no expert, but I know there's hip-hop, there's rap, and there's gangsta rap -- the latter being pretty much what sells in the US. We can deplore the lousy role models for black kids, the ridiculous poses for suburban whites, but in the last decade hip-hop has become the musical glue of global culture. Rock isn't quite dead, but it's off most kids' radar screen. At some level gangsta rap is about the people I sometimes have to kick off our lawn, so it's hard for me to find much to appreciate there, but hip-hop is also about a musical tradition incorporating timeless breaks from obscure 70s dance hits which I never, ever recognize. Even after they're pointed out to me. Nevertheless I can, when I try, appreciate hip-hop at that level, and I recommend seeking it out if you think you hate "rap".
Now, for the equally silly argument about propaganda that amberglow raised. C'mon. The photography policies have barely changed; for practical purposes it's nearly impossible to police soldiers' digital cameras anyway. I have no doubt that what we see is likely censored -- cleared with a superior officer, to eliminate operational security risks or out-and-out embarassments -- but it comes from the soldiers; as such it isn't likely to contradict their worldview. (Contrary to what lefties would prefer, most soldiers are actually pretty apolitical, or lean vaguely right; many liberals rationalize not volunteering as protest -- this is the result.) What they're rapping about is things like powerlessness and the effects of daily exposure to violence and fear among a people you're there to protect but which may want you dead; whatever side you're on you can take that at face value and run with it. There certainly isn't a Pentagon Office of Rap setting all this shit up, and what I've heard wouldn't necessarily pass muster anyway (see Gunner Palace). At some level this is the unvarnished truth about what it's like to be a soldier, so it's probably going to be anti-insurgent -- d'ya think?
Certainly this isn't "new" except in technological terms. Significant military deployments always develop their own subculture. What the drum and bugle were for the Revolutionary War, the guitar was for the Civil War, the record was for WWI and WWII (Tokyo Rose was mainly listened to for the music), and then Good Morning Vietnam. Today, it's the iPod. That this isn't new doesn't mean I find it any less fascinating.
For another example of ground-up military culture developing, see the Jody call -- and there's probably plenty for a graduate thesis there on the connection between cadences and rap.
posted by dhartung at 9:14 PM on June 6, 2005
Let me just say that I'm absolutely no expert, but I know there's hip-hop, there's rap, and there's gangsta rap -- the latter being pretty much what sells in the US. We can deplore the lousy role models for black kids, the ridiculous poses for suburban whites, but in the last decade hip-hop has become the musical glue of global culture. Rock isn't quite dead, but it's off most kids' radar screen. At some level gangsta rap is about the people I sometimes have to kick off our lawn, so it's hard for me to find much to appreciate there, but hip-hop is also about a musical tradition incorporating timeless breaks from obscure 70s dance hits which I never, ever recognize. Even after they're pointed out to me. Nevertheless I can, when I try, appreciate hip-hop at that level, and I recommend seeking it out if you think you hate "rap".
Now, for the equally silly argument about propaganda that amberglow raised. C'mon. The photography policies have barely changed; for practical purposes it's nearly impossible to police soldiers' digital cameras anyway. I have no doubt that what we see is likely censored -- cleared with a superior officer, to eliminate operational security risks or out-and-out embarassments -- but it comes from the soldiers; as such it isn't likely to contradict their worldview. (Contrary to what lefties would prefer, most soldiers are actually pretty apolitical, or lean vaguely right; many liberals rationalize not volunteering as protest -- this is the result.) What they're rapping about is things like powerlessness and the effects of daily exposure to violence and fear among a people you're there to protect but which may want you dead; whatever side you're on you can take that at face value and run with it. There certainly isn't a Pentagon Office of Rap setting all this shit up, and what I've heard wouldn't necessarily pass muster anyway (see Gunner Palace). At some level this is the unvarnished truth about what it's like to be a soldier, so it's probably going to be anti-insurgent -- d'ya think?
Certainly this isn't "new" except in technological terms. Significant military deployments always develop their own subculture. What the drum and bugle were for the Revolutionary War, the guitar was for the Civil War, the record was for WWI and WWII (Tokyo Rose was mainly listened to for the music), and then Good Morning Vietnam. Today, it's the iPod. That this isn't new doesn't mean I find it any less fascinating.
For another example of ground-up military culture developing, see the Jody call -- and there's probably plenty for a graduate thesis there on the connection between cadences and rap.
posted by dhartung at 9:14 PM on June 6, 2005
Don't look for the catchy melody, because you very often won't hear it. In many rappers listen for the more subtle elements of harmonization found in jazz music, a walking bassline, a piano or trumpet riff, and a carefully syncopated drum break. Rappers use their voices like a rhythm instrument, and their voice interaction with the drum is incredibly sophisticated. Some melody will appear in the hook or chorus sometimes, extremely well harmonized.
I do know how to listen for this, and I've certainly heard it in Missy Eliot (jawdropping) and even in something like Drop It Like It It's Hot (the percussive mouth sounds). You'll get no argument from me on the sonic brilliance of rap production.
Rappers who exemplify these qualities include Nas, Mos Def, The Roots (who are less a rap band then a full blown jazz band with a rapper frontman), Jurassic Five, Tribe Called Quest,
Noted, and I will follow this up. Thanks.
Tupac, and even the Notorious B.I.G. if you're not immediately turned off by his extremely violent subject matter.
But yeah, you see, there's the rub.
Oh yeah, and Fifty's a herb.
What's a herb?
Apologies for adding to the derail.
posted by jokeefe at 10:03 PM on June 6, 2005
I do know how to listen for this, and I've certainly heard it in Missy Eliot (jawdropping) and even in something like Drop It Like It It's Hot (the percussive mouth sounds). You'll get no argument from me on the sonic brilliance of rap production.
Rappers who exemplify these qualities include Nas, Mos Def, The Roots (who are less a rap band then a full blown jazz band with a rapper frontman), Jurassic Five, Tribe Called Quest,
Noted, and I will follow this up. Thanks.
Tupac, and even the Notorious B.I.G. if you're not immediately turned off by his extremely violent subject matter.
But yeah, you see, there's the rub.
Oh yeah, and Fifty's a herb.
What's a herb?
Apologies for adding to the derail.
posted by jokeefe at 10:03 PM on June 6, 2005
I respect hip hop, though I don't listen to much of it, and respect that it's the idiom of expression for these soldiers, but I cannot love or even like rap, simply for the reason that gangsta seems to me to go against everything that scratch described as giving the genre value-- when I see 50 Cent posturing and dropping hundred dollars bills in his videos, and those endless slow motion shots of myriads of half naked women, I don't think "voice of the people", I think obsessive materialism, a vacant and abusive morality, and macho status-mongering at its worst. (Don't even get me started on Snoop Dogg.) So broadly I would say yes to scratch's appreciation of the impulse behind some hip hop, but no to rap, as I understand it.
I was typing quickly and not explaining myself thoroughly. I was referring to the teen boys I see on the subway practicing their rhymes on the way home from school, the way my friends used to shlep guitar cases over to someone's basement when their mom wasn't home so they could figure out how to play 3 chords and write songs about how high school sucks. I certainly don't consider the bling-flinging MTV yahoos to be folk music any more than I consider top-40 punk bands to be punk. Music made for the specific purpose of material gain is not folk music. The DIY ethic is what I'm talking about, basically. And I don't think gangsta materialism and sexism deserves any respect atall.
posted by scratch at 2:00 PM on June 7, 2005
I was typing quickly and not explaining myself thoroughly. I was referring to the teen boys I see on the subway practicing their rhymes on the way home from school, the way my friends used to shlep guitar cases over to someone's basement when their mom wasn't home so they could figure out how to play 3 chords and write songs about how high school sucks. I certainly don't consider the bling-flinging MTV yahoos to be folk music any more than I consider top-40 punk bands to be punk. Music made for the specific purpose of material gain is not folk music. The DIY ethic is what I'm talking about, basically. And I don't think gangsta materialism and sexism deserves any respect atall.
posted by scratch at 2:00 PM on June 7, 2005
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posted by 445supermag at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2005