Rove's lawyer acknowledges he was Time reporter's source.
July 11, 2005 5:05 AM Subscribe
Rove's lawyer acknowledges he was Time reporter's source. Is it orange jumpsuit time?
This post was deleted for the following reason: one link updatefilter: please use yesterday's thread
If only he knew somebody that could give him a Presidential Pardon...
posted by veedubya at 5:16 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by veedubya at 5:16 AM on July 11, 2005
Is it orange jumpsuit time?
One can hope. But this teflon administration will manage to let him weasel out of most if not all charges.
posted by Rothko at 5:31 AM on July 11, 2005
One can hope. But this teflon administration will manage to let him weasel out of most if not all charges.
posted by Rothko at 5:31 AM on July 11, 2005
Maybe the "authorities" will adjust his AC, blast rap music at him, and have a female intern invade his personal space.
posted by dsquid at 5:35 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by dsquid at 5:35 AM on July 11, 2005
time for something else to blow up.
*looks around fearfully*
posted by quonsar at 5:36 AM on July 11, 2005
*looks around fearfully*
posted by quonsar at 5:36 AM on July 11, 2005
Hey, it would absolutely kick ass if we could get maybe 5 or 6 more FPPs about this in the next week or so.
What do you think? Possible?
posted by selfnoise at 5:43 AM on July 11, 2005
What do you think? Possible?
posted by selfnoise at 5:43 AM on July 11, 2005
I don't listen to Fox or other right wing media, but how do you think they can spin the story, so it makes sense to their viewers/listeners? I am always fascinated how the other side hears the news.
posted by MrMulan at 5:44 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by MrMulan at 5:44 AM on July 11, 2005
What will it say about the American electorate if this does not at least cause a crisis of credibility for the White House?
What Rove did is clearly against some hallmark conservative values like supporting law enforcement and keeping State secrets. Or is all there is remaining in American politics an all out game of partisan "us v. them"?
posted by BeerGrin at 5:44 AM on July 11, 2005
What Rove did is clearly against some hallmark conservative values like supporting law enforcement and keeping State secrets. Or is all there is remaining in American politics an all out game of partisan "us v. them"?
posted by BeerGrin at 5:44 AM on July 11, 2005
Much will ride on how much the American public cares about it. Or, more cynically, how well FOX News can decry it as a witchhunt/nonevent.
This may belong in AskMeFi, but can someone tell me why Judith Miller is going to jail but Robert Novak has gotten off scott-free?
posted by zardoz at 5:46 AM on July 11, 2005
This may belong in AskMeFi, but can someone tell me why Judith Miller is going to jail but Robert Novak has gotten off scott-free?
posted by zardoz at 5:46 AM on July 11, 2005
I don't listen to Fox or other right wing media, but how do you think they can spin the story, so it makes sense to their viewers/listeners?
She wasn't really a covert operative, so there's no crime here.
Rove didn't know that she was an operative, so there's no crime here.
Rove didn't explicitly name her, but rather identified her as, "Wilson's wife," so there's no crime here.
Any combination of the above.
posted by jperkins at 5:47 AM on July 11, 2005
She wasn't really a covert operative, so there's no crime here.
Rove didn't know that she was an operative, so there's no crime here.
Rove didn't explicitly name her, but rather identified her as, "Wilson's wife," so there's no crime here.
Any combination of the above.
posted by jperkins at 5:47 AM on July 11, 2005
Oh, be sure to add in a lot of sneering about how the "liberal media" is playing this to hurt a true patriot, good American and Christian foot soldier.
posted by jperkins at 5:48 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by jperkins at 5:48 AM on July 11, 2005
"orange jumpsuit time?"
Whatever happened to black and white stripes? They're more slimming. Orange just doesn't go with anything.
"...be sure to add in a lot of sneering about how the "liberal media" is playing this..."
I've observed that conservatives claim the media is full of liberal bias, and the liberals claim the media is full of conservative bias. Looks to me that pissing off both extremes is about as objective as the media can get.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:51 AM on July 11, 2005
Whatever happened to black and white stripes? They're more slimming. Orange just doesn't go with anything.
"...be sure to add in a lot of sneering about how the "liberal media" is playing this..."
I've observed that conservatives claim the media is full of liberal bias, and the liberals claim the media is full of conservative bias. Looks to me that pissing off both extremes is about as objective as the media can get.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:51 AM on July 11, 2005
I think it's "we're so confident that we can get away with anything, we'll straight up admit it & we still won't go to jail" time.
posted by password at 5:53 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by password at 5:53 AM on July 11, 2005
BeerGrin: With this Admin, their ends have always justified any and all means. They are on a Mission From God
posted by ElvisJesus at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by ElvisJesus at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2005
Why hasn't someone mentioned this before!!!???! ...oh, wait -
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43225
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43262
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43375
posted by horsemuth at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2005
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43225
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43262
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/43375
posted by horsemuth at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2005
She wasn't really a covert operative, so there's no crime here.
What I've read suggests that while she was known to work for the CIA, it wasn't known in what capacity. As a NOC, she'd be one level above a standard CIA agent - reports citing intelligence from her would omit her name, etc.
Rove didn't know that she was an operative, so there's no crime here.
Indeed. This is Rove's defense - it's complete bullshit, of course, but it is the most likely avenue through which he'll escape.
A few things to keep in mind:
1) We have no idea what kind of deal (if any) Novak has cut with Fitzgerald (the special prosecutor), nor what he's told the grand jury. He's been untouched through all this, which paints him as something of a wildcard figure.
2) A perjury charge requires two witnesses. Assuming for the moment that Novak didn't sell out Rove (which seems likely) then provided Miller doesn't talk (which also seems likely, given that Rove gave Cooper a waiver to talk, but not Miller) there doesn't seem to be any way for Fitzgerald to nail Rove on perjury.
3) Jailing reporters is an absolute last resort measure - Fitzgerald wouldn't be doing this if he didn't think that doing so could result in something major happening. Something on the scale of Rove being convicted of some kind of felony be it perjury or the outing of Valerie Plame or something else entirely.
We'll see, but right now it doesn't appear especially likely that Rove will be wearing a jumpsuit anytime soon. I want him to get frogmarched as much - if not more - than everybody else around here, but it just doesn't seem likely to happen unless something gives or Fitzgerald has a major ace in the hole. Fingers crossed.
posted by Ryvar at 5:57 AM on July 11, 2005
What I've read suggests that while she was known to work for the CIA, it wasn't known in what capacity. As a NOC, she'd be one level above a standard CIA agent - reports citing intelligence from her would omit her name, etc.
Rove didn't know that she was an operative, so there's no crime here.
Indeed. This is Rove's defense - it's complete bullshit, of course, but it is the most likely avenue through which he'll escape.
A few things to keep in mind:
1) We have no idea what kind of deal (if any) Novak has cut with Fitzgerald (the special prosecutor), nor what he's told the grand jury. He's been untouched through all this, which paints him as something of a wildcard figure.
2) A perjury charge requires two witnesses. Assuming for the moment that Novak didn't sell out Rove (which seems likely) then provided Miller doesn't talk (which also seems likely, given that Rove gave Cooper a waiver to talk, but not Miller) there doesn't seem to be any way for Fitzgerald to nail Rove on perjury.
3) Jailing reporters is an absolute last resort measure - Fitzgerald wouldn't be doing this if he didn't think that doing so could result in something major happening. Something on the scale of Rove being convicted of some kind of felony be it perjury or the outing of Valerie Plame or something else entirely.
We'll see, but right now it doesn't appear especially likely that Rove will be wearing a jumpsuit anytime soon. I want him to get frogmarched as much - if not more - than everybody else around here, but it just doesn't seem likely to happen unless something gives or Fitzgerald has a major ace in the hole. Fingers crossed.
posted by Ryvar at 5:57 AM on July 11, 2005
Oh and one other thing - regardless of how long this debacle is stretched out, a presidential pardon for Rove would cost the Republican Party so much political capital in the subsequent election that in this age of feverish nationalism it's almost certain it won't happen.
posted by Ryvar at 6:00 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by Ryvar at 6:00 AM on July 11, 2005
I don't listen to Fox or other right wing media, but how do you think they can spin the story, so it makes sense to their viewers/listeners?
Rove didn't know that Plame was undercover. Also, he didn't use her name. The liberal media are out to get Bush and Rove. Even if Rove did break the law, he was protecting American interests unlike those wussy, blame-America-first liberals. Anyway, isn't Valeria Plame a dumb, slutty, bitch? And her husband's a liar and a traitor.
[/GOP apologist]
*showers*
Does that cover it?
posted by callmejay at 6:00 AM on July 11, 2005
Rove didn't know that Plame was undercover. Also, he didn't use her name. The liberal media are out to get Bush and Rove. Even if Rove did break the law, he was protecting American interests unlike those wussy, blame-America-first liberals. Anyway, isn't Valeria Plame a dumb, slutty, bitch? And her husband's a liar and a traitor.
[/GOP apologist]
*showers*
Does that cover it?
posted by callmejay at 6:00 AM on July 11, 2005
but can someone tell me why Judith Miller is going to jail but Robert Novak has gotten off scott-free?
In a nutshell, Miller is in jail for refusing to name her sources to the Grand Jury, while Novak is free because he (presumably) talked to the grand jury, perhaps in exchange for some sort of immunity.
The part about Novak is pure speculation, as the Grand Jury proceedings are secret.
posted by anastasiav at 6:06 AM on July 11, 2005
In a nutshell, Miller is in jail for refusing to name her sources to the Grand Jury, while Novak is free because he (presumably) talked to the grand jury, perhaps in exchange for some sort of immunity.
The part about Novak is pure speculation, as the Grand Jury proceedings are secret.
posted by anastasiav at 6:06 AM on July 11, 2005
If only he knew somebody that could give him a Presidential Pardon...
I have no doubt that even if he gets charged and convicted, he's going to be pardoned. What would Bush do without him?
posted by SisterHavana at 6:06 AM on July 11, 2005
I have no doubt that even if he gets charged and convicted, he's going to be pardoned. What would Bush do without him?
posted by SisterHavana at 6:06 AM on July 11, 2005
Not on the FOX News website, which shows that either they're slow on the uptake on this story or they're ignoring it. For the time being.
posted by zardoz at 6:07 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by zardoz at 6:07 AM on July 11, 2005
I've observed that conservatives claim the media is full of liberal bias, and the liberals claim the media is full of conservative bias. Looks to me that pissing off both extremes is about as objective as the media can get.
I enjoyed the observation that after listening to "Democracy Now" for a week NPR sounded down right centrist.
Oh and one other thing - regardless of how long this debacle is stretched out, a presidential pardon for Rove would cost the Republican Party so much political capital in the subsequent election that in this age of feverish nationalism it's almost certain it won't happen.
LOL. Have you read the text of the Christmas Eve Pardons of Bush the elder?
posted by jperkins at 6:08 AM on July 11, 2005
I enjoyed the observation that after listening to "Democracy Now" for a week NPR sounded down right centrist.
Oh and one other thing - regardless of how long this debacle is stretched out, a presidential pardon for Rove would cost the Republican Party so much political capital in the subsequent election that in this age of feverish nationalism it's almost certain it won't happen.
LOL. Have you read the text of the Christmas Eve Pardons of Bush the elder?
posted by jperkins at 6:08 AM on July 11, 2005
Nothing on ABCNews.com, Nothing on CBS, not even in the politics sections. I searched "Plame" and I got suggestions for "Plane". Fox news? Heh. Drudge? Spun out like your skinny, mulleted neighbor doing auto repair at 3 am.
The top political story, buried under Hurricane Dennis, seems to be "Hillary Clinton Slams Bush."
Liberal Media bias? Yeah, maybe if you're Mussolini.
Bizarro! Bizarro!
If it helps people get a clue, I don't care how many FPPs on this there are. I'd hardly even know this was happening if it wasn't for MeFi.
posted by loquacious at 6:15 AM on July 11, 2005
The top political story, buried under Hurricane Dennis, seems to be "Hillary Clinton Slams Bush."
Liberal Media bias? Yeah, maybe if you're Mussolini.
Bizarro! Bizarro!
If it helps people get a clue, I don't care how many FPPs on this there are. I'd hardly even know this was happening if it wasn't for MeFi.
posted by loquacious at 6:15 AM on July 11, 2005
Don't you realize? the hurricane was caused by the CIA to distract from this news!!!!!!! :tinfoil:
posted by mrbill at 6:15 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by mrbill at 6:15 AM on July 11, 2005
Zachsmind sez: Whatever happened to black and white stripes? They're more slimming. Orange just doesn't go with anything.
Haven't you heard? Orange is the new black.
posted by dsquid at 6:16 AM on July 11, 2005
Haven't you heard? Orange is the new black.
posted by dsquid at 6:16 AM on July 11, 2005
a presidential pardon for Rove would cost the Republican Party so much political capital in the subsequent election that in this age of feverish nationalism it's almost certain it won't happen.
It's almost certain not to happen because no one with any juice is going to insist that he be dealt with.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:18 AM on July 11, 2005
It's almost certain not to happen because no one with any juice is going to insist that he be dealt with.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:18 AM on July 11, 2005
Just as I feared, this morning's headlines focus on whether or not Rove named the name, not the context of the naming: Rove actively suppressing the Wilson story, which contained the information that one of Bush's main justifications for going to war was based on forged documents. Yes people, maybe he didn't name the name. It is REALLY a time for reporters to go meta and start analyzing why Bush's favorite turd blossom (I didn't name
the name!) was so busy working the phones that week.
posted by digaman at 6:22 AM on July 11, 2005
the name!) was so busy working the phones that week.
posted by digaman at 6:22 AM on July 11, 2005
loquacious: it's right on the front page of msnbc.com and nytimes.com at this moment. That's pretty freaking visible.
posted by Ryvar at 6:27 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by Ryvar at 6:27 AM on July 11, 2005
But this teflon administration...
It ain't teflon. It's slippery, greasy oil.
posted by three blind mice at 6:29 AM on July 11, 2005
It ain't teflon. It's slippery, greasy oil.
posted by three blind mice at 6:29 AM on July 11, 2005
mrbill: Uh, yeah. That's totally what I meant. Because it's obvious there's not enough room in the fucking politics section to talk about this because of Hurricane Dennis - which seems to have sucked all the air out of the mainstream reporter's heads - much less any room for it to share the front page. Thank you for your erudite observations.
Who needs distracting explosions and terror alerts?
posted by loquacious at 6:30 AM on July 11, 2005
Who needs distracting explosions and terror alerts?
posted by loquacious at 6:30 AM on July 11, 2005
BUSH PARDONS WEINBERGER, FIVE OTHERS TIED TO IRAN-CONTRA
Calls Weinberger "true American patriot
By Dian McDonald
USIA White House Correspondent
Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair.
Bush said Weinberger -- who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra -- was a "true American patriot," who had served with "distinction" in a series of public positions since the late 1960s.
"I am pardoning him not just out of compassion or to spare a 75-year-old patriot the torment of lengthy and costly legal proceedings, but to make it possible for him to receive the honor he deserves for his extraordinary service to our country," Bush said in a proclamation granting executive clemency.
The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."
The Iran-Contra affair involved the secret sale of weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by pro-Iranian terrorists and the diversion of money from that sale to provide support for anti-communist resistance fighters in Nicaragua known as the "Contras."
Weinberger had been charged by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh with four counts of lying to congressional Iran-Contra investigators in 1987 and to Walsh's prosecutors in 1990. His case involved allegations that he had concealed from congressional investigators his personal notes that detailed events related to Iran-Contra and which reportedly undermined what then-President Reagan said about the origins and operations of the covert arms-for-hostages dealings. Weinberger had pleaded not guilty and said he was being unfairly prosecuted.
Although a president has unlimited pardon powers, it is highly unusual to pardon someone before trial and conviction. The best-known precedent -- following the Watergate political scandal during the Nixon administration -- was former President Ford's pardon in 1974 of former President Nixon, who was never indicted.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 6:36 AM on July 11, 2005
Calls Weinberger "true American patriot
By Dian McDonald
USIA White House Correspondent
Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair.
Bush said Weinberger -- who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra -- was a "true American patriot," who had served with "distinction" in a series of public positions since the late 1960s.
"I am pardoning him not just out of compassion or to spare a 75-year-old patriot the torment of lengthy and costly legal proceedings, but to make it possible for him to receive the honor he deserves for his extraordinary service to our country," Bush said in a proclamation granting executive clemency.
The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."
The Iran-Contra affair involved the secret sale of weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by pro-Iranian terrorists and the diversion of money from that sale to provide support for anti-communist resistance fighters in Nicaragua known as the "Contras."
Weinberger had been charged by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh with four counts of lying to congressional Iran-Contra investigators in 1987 and to Walsh's prosecutors in 1990. His case involved allegations that he had concealed from congressional investigators his personal notes that detailed events related to Iran-Contra and which reportedly undermined what then-President Reagan said about the origins and operations of the covert arms-for-hostages dealings. Weinberger had pleaded not guilty and said he was being unfairly prosecuted.
Although a president has unlimited pardon powers, it is highly unusual to pardon someone before trial and conviction. The best-known precedent -- following the Watergate political scandal during the Nixon administration -- was former President Ford's pardon in 1974 of former President Nixon, who was never indicted.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 6:36 AM on July 11, 2005
Interesting. I'm perusing the blogs trying to answer MrMulan question. I've noticed that shockingly few right wing blogs allow comments.
Beyond that, most think that there is no case, and the Fitzgerald is simply wasting his time, jailing Judith Miller for no good reason, that the CIA and DOJ are both full of shit, Plame wasn't really an undercover director of operations in nuclear non-proliferation in the middle east.
That's a whole hell of alot of denial, with the added deliciousness of refusing to allow anyone to point it out to them.
Still not on Fox News.
The media is neither conservative nor liberal. It is sensationalist, and driven towards satisfying it's viewers. Ask yourself this, why are there no A-list political blogs that are truly centrist?
On preview: The Jesse Helms, we've seen that, what it is now, three times before? Could you at the very least find another article?
posted by Freen at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2005
Beyond that, most think that there is no case, and the Fitzgerald is simply wasting his time, jailing Judith Miller for no good reason, that the CIA and DOJ are both full of shit, Plame wasn't really an undercover director of operations in nuclear non-proliferation in the middle east.
That's a whole hell of alot of denial, with the added deliciousness of refusing to allow anyone to point it out to them.
Still not on Fox News.
The media is neither conservative nor liberal. It is sensationalist, and driven towards satisfying it's viewers. Ask yourself this, why are there no A-list political blogs that are truly centrist?
On preview: The Jesse Helms, we've seen that, what it is now, three times before? Could you at the very least find another article?
posted by Freen at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2005
Well, this has got to be a slap in the face to all those who said it couldn't be true. I'm sure most of them must be eating humble pie right now!
Ah, sometimes I crack me up.
posted by clevershark at 6:41 AM on July 11, 2005
Ah, sometimes I crack me up.
posted by clevershark at 6:41 AM on July 11, 2005
Man, what are we going to have for the "it was Rove" post for tomorrow? What crap this is....
posted by Eekacat at 6:42 AM on July 11, 2005
posted by Eekacat at 6:42 AM on July 11, 2005
I don't listen to Fox or other right wing media, but how do you think they can spin the story, so it makes sense to their viewers/listeners?
This morning on Fox the directive seems to be to liberally 'quote' Cooper's use of the phrase "double super secret" accompanied by simultaneous air quotes and rolled eyes...ie. much ado about nothing because it is us vs them. I think every single face on Fox has repeated the phrase at least once today. They seem to be somewhat avoiding using the name "Rove".
posted by well_balanced at 6:48 AM on July 11, 2005
This morning on Fox the directive seems to be to liberally 'quote' Cooper's use of the phrase "double super secret" accompanied by simultaneous air quotes and rolled eyes...ie. much ado about nothing because it is us vs them. I think every single face on Fox has repeated the phrase at least once today. They seem to be somewhat avoiding using the name "Rove".
posted by well_balanced at 6:48 AM on July 11, 2005
There are no centrist blogs because there is no center in America.
The Republicans have taken such a strong, monolithic, "right-wing" view and are so intolerant of even the slightest lapse from the party line that there are only two sides now: for the Republicans and against them. My friends are now astonishingly in agreement about nearly all the political issues of the day, and they range from Libertarians to Democratic Socialists to Communists. (I no longer speak to the two Republicans who were my friends as they both persisted in barraging me with hateful material -- I'd have been willing to ignore our differences otherwise.)
In my heart, I believe all the secrets will come out one day, and there will be revelations that will shock everyone. This government acts as if laws are utterly meaningless to it, and that's just the part we see -- the question of what the Administration is doing in secret frightens me.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:49 AM on July 11, 2005
The Republicans have taken such a strong, monolithic, "right-wing" view and are so intolerant of even the slightest lapse from the party line that there are only two sides now: for the Republicans and against them. My friends are now astonishingly in agreement about nearly all the political issues of the day, and they range from Libertarians to Democratic Socialists to Communists. (I no longer speak to the two Republicans who were my friends as they both persisted in barraging me with hateful material -- I'd have been willing to ignore our differences otherwise.)
In my heart, I believe all the secrets will come out one day, and there will be revelations that will shock everyone. This government acts as if laws are utterly meaningless to it, and that's just the part we see -- the question of what the Administration is doing in secret frightens me.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:49 AM on July 11, 2005
jperkins: "I enjoyed the observation that after listening to 'Democracy Now' for a week NPR sounded down right centrist."
I'm having a similar opinion after listening to Franken, Springer and Garofalo for a week. NPR sounds middle of the road compared to the spin doctors on both extremes. I'd consider trying my hand at another week of Limbaugh and O'Reilly, but I'm afraid my head would explode.
And the extremists wonder why most people don't vote and don't pay attention to politics. Garofalo calls herself an "aetheist slash agnostic" when it comes to religion, but with her on one extreme and tools like Ben Stein on the other, they're pushing more and more people to having a similar lack of faith in politics.
After a week of Air America, programming like "Who Wants To Be A Hilton" and "Average Joes Strike Back" are starting to sound vaguely appealing. Yet still we persevere.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:52 AM on July 11, 2005
I'm having a similar opinion after listening to Franken, Springer and Garofalo for a week. NPR sounds middle of the road compared to the spin doctors on both extremes. I'd consider trying my hand at another week of Limbaugh and O'Reilly, but I'm afraid my head would explode.
And the extremists wonder why most people don't vote and don't pay attention to politics. Garofalo calls herself an "aetheist slash agnostic" when it comes to religion, but with her on one extreme and tools like Ben Stein on the other, they're pushing more and more people to having a similar lack of faith in politics.
After a week of Air America, programming like "Who Wants To Be A Hilton" and "Average Joes Strike Back" are starting to sound vaguely appealing. Yet still we persevere.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:52 AM on July 11, 2005
Freen writes "On preview: The Jesse Helms, we've seen that, what it is now, three times before? Could you at the very least find another article?"
I would rephrase that to "Could you at least refrain from quoting the whole text where a simple link would do?"
But I find it funny comparing Weinberger to Rove. Will the president be able to say about Rove that "common denominator of [his] motivation -- whether [his] actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." as his father did?
posted by nkyad at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
I would rephrase that to "Could you at least refrain from quoting the whole text where a simple link would do?"
But I find it funny comparing Weinberger to Rove. Will the president be able to say about Rove that "common denominator of [his] motivation -- whether [his] actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." as his father did?
posted by nkyad at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
I've observed that conservatives claim the media is full of liberal bias, and the liberals claim the media is full of conservative bias. Looks to me that pissing off both extremes is about as objective as the media can get
but what's lost in the punditry is the actual information the rest of us need to function.
I would argue that, although certainly biased, democracynow does better reporting (more international, less sensational, tough questions to leaders and experts--most of the time) than any of its daily radio counterparts. I have been trying to get a slot for this program on my local college station (an 'alternative media outlet') but the station manager has been arguing that i need to come up with a 'balancing' right-wing show. the problem as i see it is that the right-wing shows are all different angry white guys reading the same headlines from other sources, with different levels of vitriol. these are no journalists, they're entertainers. how or what this balances, especially within the context of an 'alternative media outlet,' i don't know.
and isn't NPR pretty centrist? the reporting has always seemed very 'we don't want to rock the boat' to me. I always assumed it was because their audience is limited to the upper classes, because they aren't allowed to have any programming that any other, private media can make money off of (sports, for example). And now that CPB is trying to root out anti-administration bias, well...
posted by eustatic at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
but what's lost in the punditry is the actual information the rest of us need to function.
I would argue that, although certainly biased, democracynow does better reporting (more international, less sensational, tough questions to leaders and experts--most of the time) than any of its daily radio counterparts. I have been trying to get a slot for this program on my local college station (an 'alternative media outlet') but the station manager has been arguing that i need to come up with a 'balancing' right-wing show. the problem as i see it is that the right-wing shows are all different angry white guys reading the same headlines from other sources, with different levels of vitriol. these are no journalists, they're entertainers. how or what this balances, especially within the context of an 'alternative media outlet,' i don't know.
and isn't NPR pretty centrist? the reporting has always seemed very 'we don't want to rock the boat' to me. I always assumed it was because their audience is limited to the upper classes, because they aren't allowed to have any programming that any other, private media can make money off of (sports, for example). And now that CPB is trying to root out anti-administration bias, well...
posted by eustatic at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
From the Washington Post (via Drudge who headlines the article as "White House Aide Revealed the role, not the name of CIA agent his attorney says.")
"Rove did not mention her name to Cooper," Luskin said. "This was not an effort to encourage Time to disclose her identity. What he was doing was discouraging Time from perpetuating some statements that had been made publicly and weren't true."
One can assume by role he means Valeri Plame's role as Ambassador Wilson's wife.
posted by three blind mice at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
"Rove did not mention her name to Cooper," Luskin said. "This was not an effort to encourage Time to disclose her identity. What he was doing was discouraging Time from perpetuating some statements that had been made publicly and weren't true."
One can assume by role he means Valeri Plame's role as Ambassador Wilson's wife.
posted by three blind mice at 6:53 AM on July 11, 2005
I don't listen to Fox or other right wing media, but how do you think they can spin the story, so it makes sense to their viewers/listeners? I am always fascinated how the other side hears the news.
Dude, how lazy are you? You're not going to get cooties by visiting their website. Take five minutes out of your day top educate yourself instead of expecting the rest of us to spoon-feed you. You'll be the better man for it.
(here's a hint: its lack of presence on their site speaks volumes.)
posted by mkultra at 6:54 AM on July 11, 2005
Dude, how lazy are you? You're not going to get cooties by visiting their website. Take five minutes out of your day top educate yourself instead of expecting the rest of us to spoon-feed you. You'll be the better man for it.
(here's a hint: its lack of presence on their site speaks volumes.)
posted by mkultra at 6:54 AM on July 11, 2005
Oh and one other thing - regardless of how long this debacle is stretched out, a presidential pardon for Rove would cost the Republican Party so much political capital in the subsequent election that in this age of feverish nationalism it's almost certain it won't happen.
In your dreams.
1) The so-called opposition won't speak up. They're a bunch of beaten puppies. After Durbin's shameful cave, the GOP knows that all the have to do to shut up the democrats is keep yelling at them until they start crying during a press conference, then run the footage 24x7 until any claims are forgotten.
2) It's far more important to avoid jail than win reelection, esp. since the Chimperor can't be reelected. So, Rove will get pardoned, before trial, to make sure he can't talk and nail the Chimperor. Ditto anybody else in the White House who is charged. Pardoning them before trial keeps the truth in, and they'll all get rehired in ten years by the next Bushist to win by a 5-4 vote.
Folks, we've played this game. The Jesse Helms nails it.
GOP commits impeachable crimes. GOP pardons everyone involved, before trial, facts never need to come out. Reelections for Everybody. Would have worked great, if it weren't for those meddling Clintons. (Why do you think they hate them so?)
posted by eriko at 6:56 AM on July 11, 2005
In your dreams.
1) The so-called opposition won't speak up. They're a bunch of beaten puppies. After Durbin's shameful cave, the GOP knows that all the have to do to shut up the democrats is keep yelling at them until they start crying during a press conference, then run the footage 24x7 until any claims are forgotten.
2) It's far more important to avoid jail than win reelection, esp. since the Chimperor can't be reelected. So, Rove will get pardoned, before trial, to make sure he can't talk and nail the Chimperor. Ditto anybody else in the White House who is charged. Pardoning them before trial keeps the truth in, and they'll all get rehired in ten years by the next Bushist to win by a 5-4 vote.
Folks, we've played this game. The Jesse Helms nails it.
GOP commits impeachable crimes. GOP pardons everyone involved, before trial, facts never need to come out. Reelections for Everybody. Would have worked great, if it weren't for those meddling Clintons. (Why do you think they hate them so?)
posted by eriko at 6:56 AM on July 11, 2005
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posted by swift at 5:12 AM on July 11, 2005