Norway
September 9, 2005 4:27 PM Subscribe
Norway is the world's third largest oil exporter and western Europe's largest gas producer. It has been saving oil revenues in a fund worth around $190 billion for future generations. Norway has an amazing welfare system. The Daily Show's book hit the nail on the head (pdf)(see 1967/93) Norwegians love hot dogs so much that a university professor wants to ban them. What an interesting country! They have a priest as their Prime Minister, but for how long? . Oslo, the country's capital, is the most expensive place to live... But minimum wage is far higher than in the US. They have had state accepted unions of same-sex couples since the early 90's. Norway isn't part of the EU.
Today Norway sits on approximately half of the remaining reserves of oil and gas in Europe.. And even though Norway's oil production has dropped, it still remains a huge supplier of oil to the US.
But, no matter what, they will be okay.. Oh yeah.... the UN just said that it is the best place to live (pdf) in the world.
(p.s The US went from 7th to 10th in the last year...wonder why?)
I hear Norway has weapons of mass destruction.
posted by interrobang at 4:31 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by interrobang at 4:31 PM on September 9, 2005
$190 billion? This article from the post says it's US$170 Million.
But this is still a nice post.
posted by mullingitover at 4:33 PM on September 9, 2005
But this is still a nice post.
posted by mullingitover at 4:33 PM on September 9, 2005
(It sounds like a great place, thedoctorpants. My plan is to eventually move to Belgium, but this post may change my mind.)
posted by interrobang at 4:33 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by interrobang at 4:33 PM on September 9, 2005
interrobang, GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I was so going to say that. Actually I was thinking something along the lines of "Weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers actually Norwegians disguised as Saudi's?"
We've gotta get in there and protect all that luscious oil from thefurrinersterrorists!
posted by fenriq at 4:35 PM on September 9, 2005
We've gotta get in there and protect all that luscious oil from the
posted by fenriq at 4:35 PM on September 9, 2005
I knew a woman from Norway once... she was remarkably beautiful. If they are all that attractive, there's no way I'd ever be allowed to live there.
posted by jonson at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by jonson at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
I am laughing right now... from 5 posts... I moved here to be with the love of my life. It just so happened to be a good place to live.. The UN report inspired the post.. and Jack Johnson.. and beer...
posted by thedoctorpants at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by thedoctorpants at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
And Norway has been voted (I am not sure which UN group it is that does this sort of thing) the best nation in the world to live in for the 5th year in a row. Others (not sure of order): Australia, Sweden, Canada.
and Norway has a very fine schools system, paying its teachers very good salaries. Teaching in Norway a very respected profession, I have read.
posted by Postroad at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
and Norway has a very fine schools system, paying its teachers very good salaries. Teaching in Norway a very respected profession, I have read.
posted by Postroad at 4:40 PM on September 9, 2005
per-capita GDP of $40k. Ouch. Something tells me they do a lot more production and a lot less consumption.
mulling: There's 6 NOK to the USD so the post article is in error. 170 Billion not million. 5 million citizens, that's $34k per capita.
imagine that, not letting oil companies collect scarcity rents but keep them for the community. Communists.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 4:41 PM on September 9, 2005
mulling: There's 6 NOK to the USD so the post article is in error. 170 Billion not million. 5 million citizens, that's $34k per capita.
imagine that, not letting oil companies collect scarcity rents but keep them for the community. Communists.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 4:41 PM on September 9, 2005
And unlike every other western country, Norway has no external debt, well besides Liechtenstein.
posted by furtive at 4:42 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by furtive at 4:42 PM on September 9, 2005
Hey, thanks for making me proud of my mostly-ignored Norweigan heritage.
posted by flaterik at 4:43 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by flaterik at 4:43 PM on September 9, 2005
This thread confirms that some of the most interesting statistics I have ever read have been about Norway. I think the last one that really impressed was something to do with how many newspapers the inhabitants read daily. When I die, I hope I ascend to Norway.
posted by fire&wings at 4:44 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by fire&wings at 4:44 PM on September 9, 2005
"The US went from 7th to 10th in the last year...wonder why?"
Increasing numbers of whiners.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:45 PM on September 9, 2005
Increasing numbers of whiners.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:45 PM on September 9, 2005
This article from the post says it's US$170 Million.
Is this another instance of European/American million/billion confusion? According to the universal currency converter, 1 Norway Kroner is worth 0.16 U.S. Dollars. So if the post article is right about the fund being worth 1.09 trillion kroners, that converts to $170,000,000,000 ($170 billion).
posted by mr_roboto at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2005
Is this another instance of European/American million/billion confusion? According to the universal currency converter, 1 Norway Kroner is worth 0.16 U.S. Dollars. So if the post article is right about the fund being worth 1.09 trillion kroners, that converts to $170,000,000,000 ($170 billion).
posted by mr_roboto at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2005
All I know, Heywood, is that, while I learn the Norwegian language (State paid), I still live better than I did as an English Teacher in New York State. In fact, I make more NOT working.
posted by thedoctorpants at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by thedoctorpants at 4:47 PM on September 9, 2005
The BBC article linked by Elpoca also puts it in the billions.
Did you know the Norwegian Constitution is based on the US Declaration of Independence?
posted by furtive at 4:51 PM on September 9, 2005
Did you know the Norwegian Constitution is based on the US Declaration of Independence?
posted by furtive at 4:51 PM on September 9, 2005
Heywood Mogroot writes "per-capita GDP of $40k. Ouch."
Why ouch?
posted by mr_roboto at 4:54 PM on September 9, 2005
Why ouch?
posted by mr_roboto at 4:54 PM on September 9, 2005
Another good thing about Norway is that in spite of their accomplishements, Norwegians don't feel the need to tell everyone how great is Norwegian exceptionalism. Also, it's been a while since they invaded anyone.
posted by elgilito at 4:55 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by elgilito at 4:55 PM on September 9, 2005
shit, I should move to Norway. I'm a quarter finnish, but mebbe I should keep that a secret...
And the Norway government pays "seed" money to FFF?
My kind of country!
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:00 PM on September 9, 2005
And the Norway government pays "seed" money to FFF?
My kind of country!
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:00 PM on September 9, 2005
Actually they're just being smart, understood that cooperation can pay a lot more then competition (something u.s. corporations understood very well, moving competition to something reserved to have-nots like in the past) and that private isn't necessarily always better then public.
Also, I think, there's a very sane egoistical intuition that way many people can use a parachute for the future as the future is necessarily uncertain ; that doesn't mean ensuring lot of resources for everybody, but at least something insuring you'll not be forced into uncertainity and high risk because the system has decided you have to cushion incompetence and corruption.
posted by elpapacito at 5:09 PM on September 9, 2005
Also, I think, there's a very sane egoistical intuition that way many people can use a parachute for the future as the future is necessarily uncertain ; that doesn't mean ensuring lot of resources for everybody, but at least something insuring you'll not be forced into uncertainity and high risk because the system has decided you have to cushion incompetence and corruption.
posted by elpapacito at 5:09 PM on September 9, 2005
I met a native Norwegian just last week. He was taking a bus trip around the states and wound up staying with a friend of mine. Testifying to the standard of living in Norway, he told me that his 20 year old younger brother, without a highschool degree, makes $20 USD PER HOUR stocking shelves at a grocery store.
With a bachelors degree, I'm only making $8.50/hr.
EFF that! I'm moving to Norway to make my fortune, no matter how little daylight I'll see in the wintertime.
posted by Jon-o at 5:12 PM on September 9, 2005
With a bachelors degree, I'm only making $8.50/hr.
EFF that! I'm moving to Norway to make my fortune, no matter how little daylight I'll see in the wintertime.
posted by Jon-o at 5:12 PM on September 9, 2005
Did anyone read the list of best places to live? Looks like they factored in ethnicity above anything else. Freakin ethnocentrist bastards.
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:13 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by Mach3avelli at 5:13 PM on September 9, 2005
roboto: hmm, I was under the impression that US per-capita GDP was $30k, but I see it is now $40k too.
hmm, but we're presently running massive trade deficits, budget deficits, ...
I'm no macroeconomist, but a fairer comparison might be to subtract out the $400B in deficit spending (more precisely the ~$1.2 trillion in economic activity this stimulative spending supports) from our GDP figures, knocking our per-capita GDP down into the mid-$30s, since the US is eating its seed-corn right now, and these capital inflows will have to be repaid in the future.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:19 PM on September 9, 2005
hmm, but we're presently running massive trade deficits, budget deficits, ...
I'm no macroeconomist, but a fairer comparison might be to subtract out the $400B in deficit spending (more precisely the ~$1.2 trillion in economic activity this stimulative spending supports) from our GDP figures, knocking our per-capita GDP down into the mid-$30s, since the US is eating its seed-corn right now, and these capital inflows will have to be repaid in the future.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:19 PM on September 9, 2005
Oooh! Eat it, Niger! Also, why isn't Iraq on that list? And how is Sudan so far ahead of Kenya?
posted by billysumday at 5:21 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by billysumday at 5:21 PM on September 9, 2005
Oh yeah.... the UN just said that it is the best place to live (pdf) in the world.
I always thought it was New Orleans HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by The Jesse Helms at 5:31 PM on September 9, 2005
I always thought it was New Orleans HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
posted by The Jesse Helms at 5:31 PM on September 9, 2005
Heywood Mogroot writes "I'm no macroeconomist, but a fairer comparison might be to subtract out the $400B in deficit spending (more precisely the ~$1.2 trillion in economic activity this stimulative spending supports) from our GDP figures, knocking our per-capita GDP down into the mid-$30s, since the US is eating its seed-corn right now, and these capital inflows will have to be repaid in the future."
I'm not a macroeconomist either, but I don't think that this is a particularly well-founded adjustment. As I understand it, large government debts are a potential hinderence on future real GDP growth. It doesn't really make sense to subtract the total debts from the current GDP; that money is in the economy, after all. It might make more sense to adjust growth forecasts, or maybe even current growth numbers (something like "GDP growth absent government deficit spending" might be an interesting number).
It's worth noting that, with it's GDP largely fueled by a finite natural resource, Norway also faces what many economists would consider to be unsustainable growth. Which is why it's so damn smart for the government to be socking so much money away. Damn smart.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:38 PM on September 9, 2005
I'm not a macroeconomist either, but I don't think that this is a particularly well-founded adjustment. As I understand it, large government debts are a potential hinderence on future real GDP growth. It doesn't really make sense to subtract the total debts from the current GDP; that money is in the economy, after all. It might make more sense to adjust growth forecasts, or maybe even current growth numbers (something like "GDP growth absent government deficit spending" might be an interesting number).
It's worth noting that, with it's GDP largely fueled by a finite natural resource, Norway also faces what many economists would consider to be unsustainable growth. Which is why it's so damn smart for the government to be socking so much money away. Damn smart.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:38 PM on September 9, 2005
jon-o, IME it's always useful comparing wages to eg. the price of a liveable apartment within reasonable biking distance of work.
This site says Oslo is 60% more expensive than LA, so that $20/yr job is (perhaps, depends on exchange rate parity) equivalent to a $12 rate in LA.
Funny thing, kinda apropos to the topic of the oil pension fund, is I've recently become less stressed about the current budget deficits the Bushistas are wracking up... one way of looking at it is the government is getting the money to run things from overseas at 4%, I would hope the private sector getting the tax breaks will invest it wisely so when we come back to them for the money (to repay our creditors) in 5-10 years they'll have made enough without bitching about it.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:40 PM on September 9, 2005
This site says Oslo is 60% more expensive than LA, so that $20/yr job is (perhaps, depends on exchange rate parity) equivalent to a $12 rate in LA.
Funny thing, kinda apropos to the topic of the oil pension fund, is I've recently become less stressed about the current budget deficits the Bushistas are wracking up... one way of looking at it is the government is getting the money to run things from overseas at 4%, I would hope the private sector getting the tax breaks will invest it wisely so when we come back to them for the money (to repay our creditors) in 5-10 years they'll have made enough without bitching about it.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:40 PM on September 9, 2005
It doesn't really make sense to subtract the total debts from the current GDP
I agree, I'm not looking at debts (those can be easily recollected) but external debt. The spending deficit is only half of the current account deficit; these are somewhat linked in that people with surplus dollars have been buying US securities and oil with them (not to mention reinvesting their USD holdings by lending the money back to us, and buying up investments here in the states).
Our gross external debt was $8.35T in and was $8.5T after 1Q05.
That's what I meant about eating "seed-corn". We're selling off our capital to fund consumption (job growth under Bush has only occured in the public sector), at least that what it looks like to me.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:51 PM on September 9, 2005
I agree, I'm not looking at debts (those can be easily recollected) but external debt. The spending deficit is only half of the current account deficit; these are somewhat linked in that people with surplus dollars have been buying US securities and oil with them (not to mention reinvesting their USD holdings by lending the money back to us, and buying up investments here in the states).
Our gross external debt was $8.35T in and was $8.5T after 1Q05.
That's what I meant about eating "seed-corn". We're selling off our capital to fund consumption (job growth under Bush has only occured in the public sector), at least that what it looks like to me.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:51 PM on September 9, 2005
fix: $8.3T in 4Q04 and $8.5T after 1Q05, a rise of $200B in debt.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:53 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 5:53 PM on September 9, 2005
>>Others (not sure of order): Australia, Sweden, Canada.
Canada was first for years on this list.
Not anymore. The country is beautiful and I love it, but you don't want to live here without good employment. Taxes are high and our world class social programs have become a more of a proud memory than anything else. People on fixed incomes here literally live on less than many middle class people pay in taxes each year. Our federal government runs a huge surplus in tax dollars yet post-secondary education is prohibitively expensive for a large portion of the population.
I understand we (Canada) have huge debt to pay down, but I really think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of austerity. There seems to be a relation between tightening the belt to post those budget surpluses and the slide in this UN ranking.
Perhaps this list is based on valid metrics?
/end derail - props to Norway ;-)
posted by login at 5:59 PM on September 9, 2005
Canada was first for years on this list.
Not anymore. The country is beautiful and I love it, but you don't want to live here without good employment. Taxes are high and our world class social programs have become a more of a proud memory than anything else. People on fixed incomes here literally live on less than many middle class people pay in taxes each year. Our federal government runs a huge surplus in tax dollars yet post-secondary education is prohibitively expensive for a large portion of the population.
I understand we (Canada) have huge debt to pay down, but I really think the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of austerity. There seems to be a relation between tightening the belt to post those budget surpluses and the slide in this UN ranking.
Perhaps this list is based on valid metrics?
/end derail - props to Norway ;-)
posted by login at 5:59 PM on September 9, 2005
Good Post. My fav:
Kjell Magne Bondevik's government was appointed by the King in a session of the Council of State on 19 October 2001.
Appointed by a king? How cute. Howdya get to be king then?
"The lady of the lake, hand clad in the most shimmering of semite, held forth from the bosom of the water..." etc ?
posted by tkchrist at 6:00 PM on September 9, 2005
Kjell Magne Bondevik's government was appointed by the King in a session of the Council of State on 19 October 2001.
Appointed by a king? How cute. Howdya get to be king then?
"The lady of the lake, hand clad in the most shimmering of semite, held forth from the bosom of the water..." etc ?
posted by tkchrist at 6:00 PM on September 9, 2005
Keep your hands off my country! You touch my stuff - I kill ya!
/Francis
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:14 PM on September 9, 2005
/Francis
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:14 PM on September 9, 2005
as I discovered this summer while on vacation, norway is stunningly beautiful. it also has some entertaining pop music.
(That's a video I posted last night on metachat. I was looking for a different but equally amusing norwegian hiphop summer hit at the time. thedoctorpants: got any clue what song I might have been hearing repeatedly on norwegian radio in mid-july?)
posted by jann at 6:27 PM on September 9, 2005
(That's a video I posted last night on metachat. I was looking for a different but equally amusing norwegian hiphop summer hit at the time. thedoctorpants: got any clue what song I might have been hearing repeatedly on norwegian radio in mid-july?)
posted by jann at 6:27 PM on September 9, 2005
Try the Nettfoto website for a fantastice collection of photographs of Norway, by Frank S. Andreassen.
posted by blue shadows at 6:31 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by blue shadows at 6:31 PM on September 9, 2005
Their immigration page, in case anyone is getting any ideas.
posted by leapingsheep at 6:49 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by leapingsheep at 6:49 PM on September 9, 2005
Their immigration page, in case anyone is getting any ideas.
Heh. You read my mind, leapingsheep. I was just going to ask for this! :)
posted by jdroth at 6:58 PM on September 9, 2005
Heh. You read my mind, leapingsheep. I was just going to ask for this! :)
posted by jdroth at 6:58 PM on September 9, 2005
As well as the oil, Norway is doing some groundbreaking stuff with their gas field works too.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:16 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:16 PM on September 9, 2005
Norway isn't part of the EU.
They're in the EEA though, which I think means EU citizens can live there, among other things.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:26 PM on September 9, 2005
They're in the EEA though, which I think means EU citizens can live there, among other things.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:26 PM on September 9, 2005
One of my favorite people of all time is Norwegian. When I visited, I swore that someday I would move there. The people are amazing. Of course, I went in summer and was still cold. That said, if I spoke the language, I would be sorely tempted to go there.
posted by dejah420 at 7:37 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by dejah420 at 7:37 PM on September 9, 2005
jameson:
"Ormen Lange is expected to supply 20% of Great Britain’s natural gas needs for the next 40 years, beginning in October 2007".
Now that's what I call capitalism... 400 billion m3 of natural gas @ 27m3 / MMBTU x $10/MMBTU = $150B of product to be delivered for a $10B capital investment.
Bend over Brits!
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 7:42 PM on September 9, 2005
"Ormen Lange is expected to supply 20% of Great Britain’s natural gas needs for the next 40 years, beginning in October 2007".
Now that's what I call capitalism... 400 billion m3 of natural gas @ 27m3 / MMBTU x $10/MMBTU = $150B of product to be delivered for a $10B capital investment.
Bend over Brits!
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 7:42 PM on September 9, 2005
Europe's defense has been paid for by US tax payers for the past 6 decades. You're welcome.
posted by StarForce5 at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by StarForce5 at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2005
Of course, Norway also produced this guy and his buddies, somehow. Just saying.
posted by jonmc at 8:00 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by jonmc at 8:00 PM on September 9, 2005
Even in the 80s, Norway was a fine place to live. But as a society, it wants to protect you from yourself,even if you feel the risk is minimal. Here are ('were' is probably more accurate) some of the ideosyncracies of living in Norway.
Skateboards were illegal. Norwegian kids coming back from a vacation in London would have their new skateboards confiscated by Customs at the airport.
Booze was horrendously expensive. Thus, many Norwegians brewed their own (with as high an alcohol content as possible). They drank, not to get high, but to get drunk. On a 7 a.m. charter flight out of the country, virtually every Norwegian adult on the plane was ordering as many tax-free beers as they could put on the tray.
Very low DWI alcohol limit. 0.01%, if I recall correctly. Monday morning on the way to work was the favorite time for police alcohol roadblocks -- for those who did not quite sleep all of it off. 30 days in jail and loss of driver's license for one year on the FIRST conviction. Progressively worse for later convictions.
There is an official children's name list, so no child is ridiculed for his name.
Corporal punishment is illegal -- and could be the basis for removing a child from parental custody.
Illegal to give kids homework on weekends. They have the legal right to enjoy their weekend.
At the workplace, all offices must have a direct view of the outdoors. No interior offices.
Very regulated food industry -- no hormones in animal feed. (Beef and chicken may have been healthier to eat, but it sure was scrawny and tough. Absolutely lousy hambergers.)
Importation of foods with red dyes was illegal -- carcinogenic. But American mothers knew which grocers would sell them strawberry Jello under the counter.
Social security taxes were very high, but the system provided surgery and hospitalization free. Within 'the system' meant, of course, that you couldn't choose your own surgeon and also that the waiting list for non-emergency hernia repair was as long as nine months. (To be fair, this was in the '80s, not necessarily how it is now.)
The first $100 restaurant meal I ever had in my life was in Oslo in 1980. I can't guess what that same meal might cost 25 years later.
My final thought ... in Norway, violence is BAD (and even then the U.S. was depicted as a very violent society), but sex and nudity are normal and natural. Girly mags were openly displayed at the grocery stores. Teen pregnancy rates were high. (Most Norwegians did not marry until after their first child.) And on a warm, sunny day, it was quite normal to see the secretaries getting a topless tan on the grassy hill next to my office building.
posted by PlanoTX at 8:06 PM on September 9, 2005
Skateboards were illegal. Norwegian kids coming back from a vacation in London would have their new skateboards confiscated by Customs at the airport.
Booze was horrendously expensive. Thus, many Norwegians brewed their own (with as high an alcohol content as possible). They drank, not to get high, but to get drunk. On a 7 a.m. charter flight out of the country, virtually every Norwegian adult on the plane was ordering as many tax-free beers as they could put on the tray.
Very low DWI alcohol limit. 0.01%, if I recall correctly. Monday morning on the way to work was the favorite time for police alcohol roadblocks -- for those who did not quite sleep all of it off. 30 days in jail and loss of driver's license for one year on the FIRST conviction. Progressively worse for later convictions.
There is an official children's name list, so no child is ridiculed for his name.
Corporal punishment is illegal -- and could be the basis for removing a child from parental custody.
Illegal to give kids homework on weekends. They have the legal right to enjoy their weekend.
At the workplace, all offices must have a direct view of the outdoors. No interior offices.
Very regulated food industry -- no hormones in animal feed. (Beef and chicken may have been healthier to eat, but it sure was scrawny and tough. Absolutely lousy hambergers.)
Importation of foods with red dyes was illegal -- carcinogenic. But American mothers knew which grocers would sell them strawberry Jello under the counter.
Social security taxes were very high, but the system provided surgery and hospitalization free. Within 'the system' meant, of course, that you couldn't choose your own surgeon and also that the waiting list for non-emergency hernia repair was as long as nine months. (To be fair, this was in the '80s, not necessarily how it is now.)
The first $100 restaurant meal I ever had in my life was in Oslo in 1980. I can't guess what that same meal might cost 25 years later.
My final thought ... in Norway, violence is BAD (and even then the U.S. was depicted as a very violent society), but sex and nudity are normal and natural. Girly mags were openly displayed at the grocery stores. Teen pregnancy rates were high. (Most Norwegians did not marry until after their first child.) And on a warm, sunny day, it was quite normal to see the secretaries getting a topless tan on the grassy hill next to my office building.
posted by PlanoTX at 8:06 PM on September 9, 2005
They drank, not to get high, but to get drunk.
What? This sentence makes no sense.
posted by jonmc at 8:29 PM on September 9, 2005
What? This sentence makes no sense.
posted by jonmc at 8:29 PM on September 9, 2005
too many rules. what about freedom of choice? oh, i see, the government makes that choice for you.
posted by brandz at 8:29 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by brandz at 8:29 PM on September 9, 2005
And on a warm, sunny day, it was quite normal to see the secretaries getting a topless tan on the grassy hill next to my office building.
That's it. I'm outta here.
posted by pjern at 8:42 PM on September 9, 2005
That's it. I'm outta here.
posted by pjern at 8:42 PM on September 9, 2005
PlanoTX:
The booze and hospital stuff sounds like Canada now. The rest of it sounds just fine.
posted by showmethecalvino at 8:47 PM on September 9, 2005
The booze and hospital stuff sounds like Canada now. The rest of it sounds just fine.
posted by showmethecalvino at 8:47 PM on September 9, 2005
Lovely place to visit, but I'm still not sure how people can possibly afford to live in the large cities like Oslo considering the expense. Do people just spend every cent of their paycheck and depend on the government for all their retirement needs?
posted by gyc at 8:48 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by gyc at 8:48 PM on September 9, 2005
I like the Norweigian culture and have misgivings about the governance.....
I like sunshine too.
Alas, I gnash my teeth and moan and wail.
posted by troutfishing at 9:18 PM on September 9, 2005
I like sunshine too.
Alas, I gnash my teeth and moan and wail.
posted by troutfishing at 9:18 PM on September 9, 2005
Every one of the "cons" listed by yuppievilletexas, *cough* I mean, planotx, sounds like a pro to me. Anyone else notice that the "no interior offices" goes along quite nicely with the topless sunbathers?
posted by digitalis at 9:33 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by digitalis at 9:33 PM on September 9, 2005
jonmc: They would drink, not for the elation of being inebriated, but for their societal norm of puking (probably applied more to those under 40). Here's a reference article for you: "Reflections on Nordic Drinking: Oslo and Public Drunkenness"
brandz: Norwegians don't see the rules as a loss of freedom of choice. They believe the government has the right to shape society. My former secretary, a woman with strongly conservative economic views, believed that the government had the right to tell her what movies her kids could not see. "E.T.", American kids' favorite movie of the '80s was banned for Norwegian children under 13 because it showed a situation of parent-child conflict. Too violent for the younger kids!
gyc: The Norwegian government provides pensions for retirees -- at the cost of very high taxes during the working years. Also, every family (even ex-pat Americans) got 'barnepenger', an allowance for each child to ensure that they were adequately fed. I don't know the savings rates for Norwegian families, but the standard of living for the highest paid is not extremely higher than that for the poorest paid. It is basically an egalatarian society. People from all economic levels own their own hyttes, cabins in the countryside where they hike in the summer and ski cross-country in the winter. Not a bad life in retirement if your medical needs are provided for.
posted by PlanoTX at 9:39 PM on September 9, 2005
brandz: Norwegians don't see the rules as a loss of freedom of choice. They believe the government has the right to shape society. My former secretary, a woman with strongly conservative economic views, believed that the government had the right to tell her what movies her kids could not see. "E.T.", American kids' favorite movie of the '80s was banned for Norwegian children under 13 because it showed a situation of parent-child conflict. Too violent for the younger kids!
gyc: The Norwegian government provides pensions for retirees -- at the cost of very high taxes during the working years. Also, every family (even ex-pat Americans) got 'barnepenger', an allowance for each child to ensure that they were adequately fed. I don't know the savings rates for Norwegian families, but the standard of living for the highest paid is not extremely higher than that for the poorest paid. It is basically an egalatarian society. People from all economic levels own their own hyttes, cabins in the countryside where they hike in the summer and ski cross-country in the winter. Not a bad life in retirement if your medical needs are provided for.
posted by PlanoTX at 9:39 PM on September 9, 2005
If you feel the need to dull the envy a bit, check out the movie Junk Mail, about the world's worst postman. Definitely not funded by the Oslo tourist bureau.
posted by russilwvong at 10:03 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by russilwvong at 10:03 PM on September 9, 2005
my father is a Norwegian immigrant, and i've spent my share of time there with the sane half of my family.
Skateboards were illegal. Norwegian kids coming back from a vacation in London would have their new skateboards confiscated by Customs at the airport.
i did not know this, and i find it terribly funny in light of the preponderance of ski jumping and other insane winter sports that go on. you can do crazy-ass stuff, i guess, as long as it's in the snow. (my grandmother was downhill skiing until she was well into her 80s. she complained about skiing with my grandfather because he wouldn't go fast enough. this is the same woman who had him drag her behind his Volvo up a mountain road while she was on skis, sparks flying every time she hit bare gravel. as i recall, this was not when she was young.)
Very low DWI alcohol limit. 0.01%, if I recall correctly.
this is true, and taken very seriously. but Norway has the most excellent, cleanest public transport i've ever experienced. hell, a bus even comes to the end of the road where my family has a hytte ( a bookmobile, too). i just realized how interesting it is that a country with so much oil then chooses to tax the crap outta the stuff and spends the money to save gas instead of squandering it. what a concept.
as far as affording to live there--well, my middle class family just simply doesn't go out to eat practically ever, or to drink. (interesting in light of that is that i have never seen a culture less interested in TV--it's all about getting outside.) most families have only one car, if they have one at all. they do travel, but most vacations are spent at the hytte (family cabin). they aren't into expensive toys (adult or child) or shopping, or clothes.
it's such a relief to talk politics with this side of my family. my aunt, who works for Exxon, is a "red-green" supporter--and her rather conservative partner, who also works for Exxon, can actually have a conversation on socialism with intelligence and respect, which is more than i can say about 99% of the conservatives i know in the US. he thinks GWB is completely whacked. (of course, then again, so does my diehard Republican mother, so i guess there is hope.) and he has nothing bad to say about socialized medicine. go figure, since all the conservatives i know here, who have never experienced it at all, seem to have all kinds of things to say about it.
the only concern i have is the increasing immigration of brown-skinned folk and Eastern Europeans--Norwegians will be struggling with their discomfort with the "other" for some time, i think. the cool thing is that they seem to be fairly earnest in their desire to do the right thing.
posted by RedEmma at 10:15 PM on September 9, 2005
Skateboards were illegal. Norwegian kids coming back from a vacation in London would have their new skateboards confiscated by Customs at the airport.
i did not know this, and i find it terribly funny in light of the preponderance of ski jumping and other insane winter sports that go on. you can do crazy-ass stuff, i guess, as long as it's in the snow. (my grandmother was downhill skiing until she was well into her 80s. she complained about skiing with my grandfather because he wouldn't go fast enough. this is the same woman who had him drag her behind his Volvo up a mountain road while she was on skis, sparks flying every time she hit bare gravel. as i recall, this was not when she was young.)
Very low DWI alcohol limit. 0.01%, if I recall correctly.
this is true, and taken very seriously. but Norway has the most excellent, cleanest public transport i've ever experienced. hell, a bus even comes to the end of the road where my family has a hytte ( a bookmobile, too). i just realized how interesting it is that a country with so much oil then chooses to tax the crap outta the stuff and spends the money to save gas instead of squandering it. what a concept.
as far as affording to live there--well, my middle class family just simply doesn't go out to eat practically ever, or to drink. (interesting in light of that is that i have never seen a culture less interested in TV--it's all about getting outside.) most families have only one car, if they have one at all. they do travel, but most vacations are spent at the hytte (family cabin). they aren't into expensive toys (adult or child) or shopping, or clothes.
it's such a relief to talk politics with this side of my family. my aunt, who works for Exxon, is a "red-green" supporter--and her rather conservative partner, who also works for Exxon, can actually have a conversation on socialism with intelligence and respect, which is more than i can say about 99% of the conservatives i know in the US. he thinks GWB is completely whacked. (of course, then again, so does my diehard Republican mother, so i guess there is hope.) and he has nothing bad to say about socialized medicine. go figure, since all the conservatives i know here, who have never experienced it at all, seem to have all kinds of things to say about it.
the only concern i have is the increasing immigration of brown-skinned folk and Eastern Europeans--Norwegians will be struggling with their discomfort with the "other" for some time, i think. the cool thing is that they seem to be fairly earnest in their desire to do the right thing.
posted by RedEmma at 10:15 PM on September 9, 2005
1.Norway
2.Iceland
3.Australia
Obviously temperature is not a factor in the UN's rating system.
posted by peacay at 10:20 PM on September 9, 2005
2.Iceland
3.Australia
Obviously temperature is not a factor in the UN's rating system.
posted by peacay at 10:20 PM on September 9, 2005
MetaFilter: I gnash my teeth and moan and wail.
posted by homunculus at 10:21 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by homunculus at 10:21 PM on September 9, 2005
Sometimes I fantasize about moving to Finland. How hard can the language be?
posted by homunculus at 10:29 PM on September 9, 2005
posted by homunculus at 10:29 PM on September 9, 2005
I hear Norway has weapons of mass destruction.
Uff da.
And before anyone gets any ideas:
In Norway gasoline costs around $8/gallon.
And how does $50 for a bottle of vodka sound?
Don't even get me started on housing prices.
Hold dere unna, skitne utlendinger. :)
posted by spazzm at 10:46 PM on September 9, 2005
as I discovered this summer while on vacation, norway is stunningly beautiful. it also has some entertaining pop music.
Awesome video, jann...
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:06 PM on September 9, 2005
Awesome video, jann...
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:06 PM on September 9, 2005
Hold dere unna, skitne utlendinger. :)
lol, you tellem spazzm!
/not Norwegian but Swedish. Close enough... ;)
posted by gemmy at 11:06 PM on September 9, 2005
lol, you tellem spazzm!
/not Norwegian but Swedish. Close enough... ;)
posted by gemmy at 11:06 PM on September 9, 2005
I lived in Iceland for a bit. Loved going to Norway. All those krinkly edges & Fjords.
But I prefer the drama. I forgot who said it, but all happy families are the same, each disfunctional family is unique in it's own way.
It's true for countries too.
Um...
*cough*
...god bless america?
posted by Smedleyman at 11:42 PM on September 9, 2005
But I prefer the drama. I forgot who said it, but all happy families are the same, each disfunctional family is unique in it's own way.
It's true for countries too.
Um...
*cough*
...god bless america?
posted by Smedleyman at 11:42 PM on September 9, 2005
Satanism crops up in their press more often than you would expect (they have recently rebuilt the 900 year old church burnt down by Satanists). Racism is never very far away. Norway killed 800 Minke whales this year and is poised to triple its quota. The only time I've ever heard machine gun fire was during the armed robbery of the bank in Stavanger. There is no word for "fluffy" in Norwegian.
posted by RichLyon at 12:03 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by RichLyon at 12:03 AM on September 10, 2005
And Norway really is a nanny state. Skateboards have been legal for some years now, and they dropped the "accepted first name" list a couple of years back (good riddance), but we're still heavyli taxed and told what's best for us. Take it or leave it, I guess...
posted by Harald74 at 12:07 AM on September 10, 2005
And Norway really is a nanny state. Skateboards have been legal for some years now, and they dropped the "accepted first name" list a couple of years back (good riddance), but we're still heavyli taxed and told what's best for us. Take it or leave it, I guess...
posted by Harald74 at 12:14 AM on September 10, 2005
I can't find it on google, but Thom Yorke said of Norway (I'm paraphrasing):"The people are very attractive and everyone seems to wear orange, my favorite color."
What an endorsement, eh?
It's a closely guarded secret that Swedes are no more (or less) attractive than any other nationality, but Norwegians are the true hotties of the planet...or at least Europe.
I'd move there, but I'm not sure if Black Metal is only confined to Finland and Sweden.
posted by Devils Slide at 12:31 AM on September 10, 2005
What an endorsement, eh?
It's a closely guarded secret that Swedes are no more (or less) attractive than any other nationality, but Norwegians are the true hotties of the planet...or at least Europe.
I'd move there, but I'm not sure if Black Metal is only confined to Finland and Sweden.
posted by Devils Slide at 12:31 AM on September 10, 2005
I forgot who said it, but all happy families are the same, each disfunctional family is unique in it's own way.
Tolstoy. First line of Anna Karenina.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 12:42 AM on September 10, 2005
Tolstoy. First line of Anna Karenina.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 12:42 AM on September 10, 2005
I'd move there, but I'm not sure if Black Metal is only confined to Finland and Sweden.
Well actually, Norway was the birthplace of black metal. It's all those long winters with the Viking mythology and strong booze. Sweden, on the other hand, has death metal and grindcore.
As for Finland? Well...
posted by macdara at 12:46 AM on September 10, 2005
Well actually, Norway was the birthplace of black metal. It's all those long winters with the Viking mythology and strong booze. Sweden, on the other hand, has death metal and grindcore.
As for Finland? Well...
posted by macdara at 12:46 AM on September 10, 2005
Well actually, Norway was the birthplace of black metal. It's all those long winters with the Viking mythology and strong booze. Sweden, on the other hand, has death metal and grindcore.
Actually, I can probably handle the black metal dorks and dreary winters as long as I'm surrounded by beautiful rich nordic women and clean, pretty countryside.
posted by Devils Slide at 1:43 AM on September 10, 2005
Actually, I can probably handle the black metal dorks and dreary winters as long as I'm surrounded by beautiful rich nordic women and clean, pretty countryside.
posted by Devils Slide at 1:43 AM on September 10, 2005
I was talking to some people who work with refugee issues and it was mentioned that it is relatively easy for refugess (africans, mostly) to get settled in Finland. The problem is, nobody wants to remain there.
Unless you are Finnish (or a Russian immigrant) it seems that once a refugee gets his residence papers they leave. The midnight sun and winter darkness are really hard to take, the national cuisine is cat food smeared onto potatoes. The people - wonderful, lovely, nice Finns - seem to commute between their homes, their jobs, and their beautifully designed drunk tanks.
It is really had for them to attract immigrants. I know Sweden has a lot of immigrants, but really, the north is no place for people who can digest real food.
posted by zaelic at 1:44 AM on September 10, 2005
Unless you are Finnish (or a Russian immigrant) it seems that once a refugee gets his residence papers they leave. The midnight sun and winter darkness are really hard to take, the national cuisine is cat food smeared onto potatoes. The people - wonderful, lovely, nice Finns - seem to commute between their homes, their jobs, and their beautifully designed drunk tanks.
It is really had for them to attract immigrants. I know Sweden has a lot of immigrants, but really, the north is no place for people who can digest real food.
posted by zaelic at 1:44 AM on September 10, 2005
fullerine: damn damn you that's more addictive then crack cocaine memeville 2thousand !
posted by elpapacito at 3:35 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 3:35 AM on September 10, 2005
Jass.. I just returned.. Could it have been 'E Ore' by DJ Løve? I had to ask my 'samboer" (my live-in girlfriend of many years.. how's that for the perfect word? ) for the name of that song because everytime I heard it I wanted to shoot the radio..
posted by thedoctorpants at 5:37 AM on September 10, 2005
posted by thedoctorpants at 5:37 AM on September 10, 2005
also, I am a staunch 'let me do what I want" American.. Living here has posed no problems other than learning the language which, 40% of it, sounds like English anyway... Health Care and skateboards.. Never had a problem wih either. In fact, every Norwegian who gets prescription drugs only pays roughly $180 a year.
As for moving here.. do it.. I love the long summer days and the winters aren't that bad . (far warmer than Buffalo, NY where I am from)
Want to live here? I ended up here after falling in love with my pen-pal.
posted by thedoctorpants at 6:25 AM on September 10, 2005
As for moving here.. do it.. I love the long summer days and the winters aren't that bad . (far warmer than Buffalo, NY where I am from)
Want to live here? I ended up here after falling in love with my pen-pal.
posted by thedoctorpants at 6:25 AM on September 10, 2005
Nicely put zaelic... You should take a look at this traditional recipe.
Norway might be the only country in the world that has managed to deal with it's immense oil wealth democratically and in a sustainable way. The way that Norway has set up Statoil should be the norm, not an exception.
But I guess you need a political and economical environment where corruption is minimal and equality is a shared goal of the society to be able to do that.
posted by hoskala at 7:18 AM on September 10, 2005
Norway might be the only country in the world that has managed to deal with it's immense oil wealth democratically and in a sustainable way. The way that Norway has set up Statoil should be the norm, not an exception.
But I guess you need a political and economical environment where corruption is minimal and equality is a shared goal of the society to be able to do that.
posted by hoskala at 7:18 AM on September 10, 2005
and they dropped the "accepted first name" list a couple of years back (good riddance)
Germany used to have this practice, as well. I'm not certain if it was dropped in the past decade, but it could still be in effect.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:46 AM on September 10, 2005
Germany used to have this practice, as well. I'm not certain if it was dropped in the past decade, but it could still be in effect.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:46 AM on September 10, 2005
Could it have been 'E Ore' by DJ Løve?
Actually, that's the one I posted, "E-Ore" by Ravi & DJ Løv.
I was looking for something very similar, but not actually that song.
Oh well.
posted by jann at 11:45 AM on September 10, 2005
Actually, that's the one I posted, "E-Ore" by Ravi & DJ Løv.
I was looking for something very similar, but not actually that song.
Oh well.
posted by jann at 11:45 AM on September 10, 2005
The Norwegian Constitution is NOT "based on the U.S. Declaration of Independence." Here is the complete sentence from Wikipedia article:
"The constitution was inspired by the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776 and the French revolution in 1789 and the subsequent U.S. and French constitutions, and was one of Europe's most radical constitutions at that time."
posted by rwkenyon at 12:21 PM on September 10, 2005
"The constitution was inspired by the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776 and the French revolution in 1789 and the subsequent U.S. and French constitutions, and was one of Europe's most radical constitutions at that time."
posted by rwkenyon at 12:21 PM on September 10, 2005
I wonder how things would work if they ranked individual US states in that list. I mean, they rank EU member nations seperately.
posted by delmoi at 12:42 PM on September 10, 2005
posted by delmoi at 12:42 PM on September 10, 2005
Norway: zero percent poverty, one hundred percent literacy.
United States: twelve percent poverty, ninety-seven percent literacy.
Does the Norwegian university system have jobs for people who teach writing and rhetoric? 'Cause I'm on the job market this fall. . .
posted by vitia at 2:11 PM on September 10, 2005
United States: twelve percent poverty, ninety-seven percent literacy.
Does the Norwegian university system have jobs for people who teach writing and rhetoric? 'Cause I'm on the job market this fall. . .
posted by vitia at 2:11 PM on September 10, 2005
It's a closely guarded secret that Swedes are no more (or less) attractive than any other nationality, but Norwegians are the true hotties of the planet...or at least Europe.
The Swedes are (only IMHO of course) a little too nationalistic for me -- takes the sheen off those looks, while Norwegians... mmm.
And reindeer doesn't taste too bad.
posted by dreamsign at 3:50 PM on September 10, 2005
The Swedes are (only IMHO of course) a little too nationalistic for me -- takes the sheen off those looks, while Norwegians... mmm.
And reindeer doesn't taste too bad.
posted by dreamsign at 3:50 PM on September 10, 2005
thedoctorpants: Norway, is it hiring? I am finishing up the doctorate and looking for jobs. :)
Where in Buffalo did you teach?
posted by oflinkey at 6:54 PM on September 10, 2005
Where in Buffalo did you teach?
posted by oflinkey at 6:54 PM on September 10, 2005
I forgot who said it, but all happy families are the same, each disfunctional family is unique in it's own way.
Tolstoy. First line of Anna Karenina.
posted by Heywood Mogroot
Thanks.
This cold is kicking my ass. On the plus side: codine!
posted by Smedleyman at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2005
Tolstoy. First line of Anna Karenina.
posted by Heywood Mogroot
Thanks.
This cold is kicking my ass. On the plus side: codine!
posted by Smedleyman at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2005
Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër
A moose bit my sister once.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2005
A moose bit my sister once.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2005
Norway might be the only country in the world that has managed to deal with it's immense oil wealth democratically and in a sustainable way.
Alaska? the, ah, country
posted by Aknaton at 11:32 PM on September 10, 2005
Alaska? the, ah, country
posted by Aknaton at 11:32 PM on September 10, 2005
A Norwegian girl taught me a not-so-subtle pickup line once. I can't quite remember it - "Kan jeg finger der dyp deilig hul"? No idea what it means, though I can guess. Putting that into Google gives me "Norske Sexnoveller" as the number one hit, so it must mean something naughty.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:14 PM on September 11, 2005
posted by obiwanwasabi at 9:14 PM on September 11, 2005
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posted by thedoctorpants at 4:30 PM on September 9, 2005