Jimmy Massey atrocity stories found to be false
November 8, 2005 5:32 PM Subscribe
Newsfilter: Iraq atrocity allegations by former Marine sergeant Jimmy Massey investigated, found to be unsubstantiated. Via The Poor Man.
I must be out of touch here - if I'm reading this article right, this dude has been getting all sorts of attention for himself on the ol' lecture circuit? I like to think I am pretty plugged in with the anti-War crowd and I have never heard of him. Has he been a more major figure than it seems he is?
Anyhow, there seems to be plenty of actual proof of misdeeds (like, for example, the Abug Ghraib photos) without having to resort to anecdotal evidence from one dude with a Andy Dick haircut. Dump him fast and, if the right jumps on the left for supporting him, remind them that they supported somebody (specifically their president) who duped them, too.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:52 PM on November 8, 2005
Anyhow, there seems to be plenty of actual proof of misdeeds (like, for example, the Abug Ghraib photos) without having to resort to anecdotal evidence from one dude with a Andy Dick haircut. Dump him fast and, if the right jumps on the left for supporting him, remind them that they supported somebody (specifically their president) who duped them, too.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:52 PM on November 8, 2005
Never heard of him. He looks funny. A real comedian. That's what he is to me.
posted by stbalbach at 5:54 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by stbalbach at 5:54 PM on November 8, 2005
What's more disgusting, killing a 6 year old in cold blood or making it up to land a book deal?
I remember this guy when he was up here for his "refugee" hearing. As I recall, he was a media darling briefly until his statements became more and more outlandish and less and less verifiable.
Joey Michaels - Whatever happened at Abu Ghraib is a far cry from an accusation of civilian massacre as a matter of policy and/or sport.
posted by loquax at 5:56 PM on November 8, 2005
I remember this guy when he was up here for his "refugee" hearing. As I recall, he was a media darling briefly until his statements became more and more outlandish and less and less verifiable.
Joey Michaels - Whatever happened at Abu Ghraib is a far cry from an accusation of civilian massacre as a matter of policy and/or sport.
posted by loquax at 5:56 PM on November 8, 2005
I have a feeling this will be viewed by the chickenhawks as another "Memogate." What's that? 1 piece of evidence in an otherwise strong case turns out to be false? A WITCH!
posted by papakwanz at 5:58 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by papakwanz at 5:58 PM on November 8, 2005
What's more disgusting, killing a 6 year old in cold blood or making it up to land a book deal?
That's a rhetorical question, I hope.
Whatever happened at Abu Ghraib is a far cry from an accusation of civilian massacre as a matter of policy and/or sport.
Sure, but it's still pretty horrifying. Here's a Human Rights Watch report on torture in Iraq by the 82nd Airborne Division.
posted by russilwvong at 5:59 PM on November 8, 2005
That's a rhetorical question, I hope.
Whatever happened at Abu Ghraib is a far cry from an accusation of civilian massacre as a matter of policy and/or sport.
Sure, but it's still pretty horrifying. Here's a Human Rights Watch report on torture in Iraq by the 82nd Airborne Division.
posted by russilwvong at 5:59 PM on November 8, 2005
One guy says his unit committed atrocities. Other guys say, no, no atrocities.
Say, you guys know those Swift Boat dudes?
posted by swell at 6:06 PM on November 8, 2005
Say, you guys know those Swift Boat dudes?
posted by swell at 6:06 PM on November 8, 2005
Yeah, I'd never heard of him before, and I read Metafilter every day. A search turns up only one mention, by fold_and_mutilate, in a comment on an Iraq thread. Where did foldy go, by the way?
posted by planetkyoto at 6:14 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by planetkyoto at 6:14 PM on November 8, 2005
loquax: well, if we are going to play that game, what is worse? Making it up and attrocity to land a book deal or making up evidence of yellowcake uranium to start a war?
Plenty of liars everywhere in the world. It seems to me that this guy has been mostly ignored by the anti-war movement. I will continue to ignore him. Indeed, I roundly denounce him for his lies. To be frank, I never heard of any of these accusations of his (or even rumors of them) until reading this article right now. Had I heard them, even as a far left anti-war person, I would have scoffed at them because, well, frankly, he looks a little like Andy Dick. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be much of a suggestion that these things are happening in the rest of the world's media.
No evidence and a stupid haircut pretty much undermine a person's credibility in my book. Really, it would just take the stupid haircut, but I'm shallow like that. And, since the dude wants publicity, being revealed as a liar has gotten him much more than his lies. All in all, mission accomplished for him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:25 PM on November 8, 2005
Plenty of liars everywhere in the world. It seems to me that this guy has been mostly ignored by the anti-war movement. I will continue to ignore him. Indeed, I roundly denounce him for his lies. To be frank, I never heard of any of these accusations of his (or even rumors of them) until reading this article right now. Had I heard them, even as a far left anti-war person, I would have scoffed at them because, well, frankly, he looks a little like Andy Dick. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be much of a suggestion that these things are happening in the rest of the world's media.
No evidence and a stupid haircut pretty much undermine a person's credibility in my book. Really, it would just take the stupid haircut, but I'm shallow like that. And, since the dude wants publicity, being revealed as a liar has gotten him much more than his lies. All in all, mission accomplished for him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:25 PM on November 8, 2005
Sorry. Not "making it up and" but "making up an." Bad spelling and lack of proofreading skills undermine the credibility of a statement even more than a bad haircut.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:26 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:26 PM on November 8, 2005
Please see also: "Jimmy Massey, Ron Harris and Ambush Journalism", on Counterpunch. Via Cursor.org.
posted by puppygalore at 6:35 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by puppygalore at 6:35 PM on November 8, 2005
Hard to admit guilt indeed.
I've never heard of this guy either. Where has he lectured? And just because someone hangs out with Sheehand doesn't mean that he speaks for the left. Or at least me...
posted by klangklangston at 7:36 PM on November 8, 2005
I've never heard of this guy either. Where has he lectured? And just because someone hangs out with Sheehand doesn't mean that he speaks for the left. Or at least me...
posted by klangklangston at 7:36 PM on November 8, 2005
And that Counterpunch does just what the name says... Weird stuff, man.
posted by klangklangston at 7:46 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by klangklangston at 7:46 PM on November 8, 2005
Yeah, never heard of him.
The white phosphorous thing has me literally sick to my stomach though. I would love to know that that's a lie, no matter how face the anti-war movment lost in the process.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:53 PM on November 8, 2005
The white phosphorous thing has me literally sick to my stomach though. I would love to know that that's a lie, no matter how face the anti-war movment lost in the process.
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:53 PM on November 8, 2005
The white phosphorous thing has me literally sick to my stomach though
WP, AFAIK, is just an artillery shell that goes "POOF!" instead of "BOOM!".
That, and spreading blazing chunks of molten metal in all directions and a chokingly-toxic cloud of particulates downwind, hopefully downrange.
Fallujah was pretty fucked-up, WP or no.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 8:28 PM on November 8, 2005
WP, AFAIK, is just an artillery shell that goes "POOF!" instead of "BOOM!".
That, and spreading blazing chunks of molten metal in all directions and a chokingly-toxic cloud of particulates downwind, hopefully downrange.
Fallujah was pretty fucked-up, WP or no.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 8:28 PM on November 8, 2005
It's not enough that they're using napalm-like firebombs?
Sure, they changed the formula, but it's still gelled gasoline on fire in your lap.
posted by Balisong at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2005
Sure, they changed the formula, but it's still gelled gasoline on fire in your lap.
posted by Balisong at 8:48 PM on November 8, 2005
I'm hoping no one uses this asshole to marginalize or paint the actual abuses going on with the same brush.
posted by Smedleyman at 8:56 PM on November 8, 2005
posted by Smedleyman at 8:56 PM on November 8, 2005
I never heard of him until he was "debunked."
Rush Limbaugh has used this tactic for years: find someone on the fringe edge of sanity, then pretend he has a large following and represents a huge number of people.
Knocking down strawmen is what you do when you can't justify your own position and you need a diversion.
posted by Jatayu das at 3:14 AM on November 9, 2005
Rush Limbaugh has used this tactic for years: find someone on the fringe edge of sanity, then pretend he has a large following and represents a huge number of people.
Knocking down strawmen is what you do when you can't justify your own position and you need a diversion.
posted by Jatayu das at 3:14 AM on November 9, 2005
Jatayu das:
Read the piece by Stan Goff linked above in Counterpunch. Goff - Massey's not a fringe lunatic, he's being badly misrepresented in the "debunking." He's not the mainstream (I'm in the antiwar movement pretty actively and never heard of him before all this) but that doesn't mean he's a fringe loony. It sounds more like he's making solid claims that are being distorted and knocked down in strawman form.
posted by graymouser at 3:36 AM on November 9, 2005
Read the piece by Stan Goff linked above in Counterpunch. Goff - Massey's not a fringe lunatic, he's being badly misrepresented in the "debunking." He's not the mainstream (I'm in the antiwar movement pretty actively and never heard of him before all this) but that doesn't mean he's a fringe loony. It sounds more like he's making solid claims that are being distorted and knocked down in strawman form.
posted by graymouser at 3:36 AM on November 9, 2005
I read dKos, Americablog, etc. every day. I've never heard of the guy.
posted by rxrfrx at 7:42 AM on November 9, 2005
posted by rxrfrx at 7:42 AM on November 9, 2005
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The anti-war movement needs to dump Massey hard. This Iraq misadventure was based on lies; to effectively oppose it, and to oppose the people who told those lies, you must align yourself strictly and unerringly with the truth.
posted by russilwvong at 5:34 PM on November 8, 2005