Mavis Beacon teaches how to efficiently kill zombies without using Shotguns or Dvorak.
March 29, 2006 11:17 PM Subscribe
The Typing of the Dead was a much loved game for the Dreamcast and PC. The out of print PC game was once available at the venerable Home of the Underdogs, but their site is borked after their domain expired, due to their insanely restrictive .htaccess referer blocking.
Alas! Have no fear: Some kind soul upped it to the Pirate Bay, where I'm currently seeding it.
Alas! Have no fear: Some kind soul upped it to the Pirate Bay, where I'm currently seeding it.
I'll be uploading at 50 Kbps for quite awhile.
I don't know how well the game works in WINE, though at least a few versions of it's less violent competitor seem to.
The game also supports multiplayer battles over a network (or I think over the internet if ports are open and forwarded)
posted by blasdelf at 11:26 PM on March 29, 2006
I don't know how well the game works in WINE, though at least a few versions of it's less violent competitor seem to.
The game also supports multiplayer battles over a network (or I think over the internet if ports are open and forwarded)
posted by blasdelf at 11:26 PM on March 29, 2006
If the game was housed at The Home of the Underdogs, that means it was abandonware, as in it's out of print and nobody with the werewithal to sue you gives a shit, `cause they already sold all the copies they printed to retailers, who sold them to customers, who now try to charge $150 for their used copy on amazon.com's used marketplace.
Metafilter has linked to Home of the Underdogs (which hosted many thousands of abandonware titles) many times before. We as a community have no qualms with the sharing of abandonware, so sod off.
posted by blasdelf at 11:32 PM on March 29, 2006
Metafilter has linked to Home of the Underdogs (which hosted many thousands of abandonware titles) many times before. We as a community have no qualms with the sharing of abandonware, so sod off.
posted by blasdelf at 11:32 PM on March 29, 2006
Pontius, legal issues aside, there's absolutely no way for Sega to make money off this game any more - either you can buy it from one of the very occasional Ebay sellers or forum traders who have a copy to flog, or you can download it at no cost to anyone. Either way, Sega gets exactly zero pounds. In fact, downloading it is potentially more lucrative for the developer, since the money you could have spent on the Ebay auction could go towards a shiny new Sega game that's still in print - I'd recommend Outrun 2006.
With that out of the way, The Typing of the Dead is amongst the most wonderfully batshit things Sega have done (and that's saying something - their games these days might be a bit hit-and-miss, but I'll always love a company willing to put a transsexual tiger-thing in a happy maraca game). The words and phrases you have to type when fighting the bosses (particularly the little story it tells when you're up against the chainsaw-wielding monster thing in the maze) are hilarious, and the fact they just replaced the characters' guns with Dreamcasts and keyboards in the cutscenes is a stroke of genius.
posted by terpsichoria at 11:39 PM on March 29, 2006
With that out of the way, The Typing of the Dead is amongst the most wonderfully batshit things Sega have done (and that's saying something - their games these days might be a bit hit-and-miss, but I'll always love a company willing to put a transsexual tiger-thing in a happy maraca game). The words and phrases you have to type when fighting the bosses (particularly the little story it tells when you're up against the chainsaw-wielding monster thing in the maze) are hilarious, and the fact they just replaced the characters' guns with Dreamcasts and keyboards in the cutscenes is a stroke of genius.
posted by terpsichoria at 11:39 PM on March 29, 2006
Just because a game is hosted at The Home of the Underdogs does not necessarily mean that it's abandonware - indeed, the fact that they provide links to purchasing the game online for many of the entries they list plainly contravenes that particular argument. (Please note that I am not speaking about Typing of the Dead in particular, but rather about THOU as a whole.)
posted by Pontius Pilate at 11:40 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by Pontius Pilate at 11:40 PM on March 29, 2006
There is no recognition of a legal term "abandonware" in any national set of copyright law. There is a long held concept of "abandonment" in trademark law, but it is a direct result of the infinite term of trademark protection. Currently, a copyright can be released into the public domain if the owner clearly does so using a writing (a process which has been done); however this formal process is not considered "abandoning", rather "releasing". Non-owners of a copyright cannot merely claim the copyright "abandoned" and start using it without permission of the copyright holder, who would then have a legal remedy.
posted by frogan at 11:46 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by frogan at 11:46 PM on March 29, 2006
Mah-ha! I own this game for Dreamcast! I am cool!
Really, I am!
posted by JHarris at 11:47 PM on March 29, 2006
Really, I am!
posted by JHarris at 11:47 PM on March 29, 2006
frogan, I think the argument is not that the host (e.g., Home of the Underdogs) is legally entitled to distribute the "abandonware" game; it's rather that they are confident that the company is not going to bother to go through the legal hassles of attempting to get them to pull the game down, because it's just not worth it to them to hassle over a 10 year-old game.
posted by Pontius Pilate at 11:49 PM on March 29, 2006
posted by Pontius Pilate at 11:49 PM on March 29, 2006
there's absolutely no way for Sega to make money off this game any more
Completely untrue. You're missing the point of opportunity costs. Go see GameTap.com to see someone charging plenty of money for the rights to play games that were previously considered "abandoned." If piracy were even more widespread than it is, the rights owners potentially lose whatever opportunity they had, however slim, in charging money for their work.
I'm admittedly not lily-white in my software usage, but neither do I fool myself into believing legal and economic fictions.
Don't copy that floppy!
posted by frogan at 11:56 PM on March 29, 2006
Completely untrue. You're missing the point of opportunity costs. Go see GameTap.com to see someone charging plenty of money for the rights to play games that were previously considered "abandoned." If piracy were even more widespread than it is, the rights owners potentially lose whatever opportunity they had, however slim, in charging money for their work.
I'm admittedly not lily-white in my software usage, but neither do I fool myself into believing legal and economic fictions.
Don't copy that floppy!
posted by frogan at 11:56 PM on March 29, 2006
There is no recognition of a legal term "abandonware" in any national set of copyright law...Non-owners of a copyright cannot merely claim the copyright "abandoned" and start using it without permission of the copyright holder, who would then have a legal remedy.
This is unfortunately a very big problem with copyright law. Not only for software. There is a huge amount of literary work, film, etc that simply can't be accessed without violating some unknown entities copyright.
But if you don't know who the copyright owner is, and no one is making any money off of it, then there's nothing particularly wrong with distributing it. There's always a chance you could get sued out of the blue though.
As far as typing of the dead though, that was a fairly recent title, only a few years old, and it would still work on the vast majority of PCs. Sega could still make money off of it if they wanted to, maybe through one of those game licensing systems I've seen ads for.
Also, you're strictly wrong. There is a recognition in the rules created by the library of congress for circumventing DRM. It's legal to circumvent DRM in cases where a work is 'abandoned' and can no longer be played on modern technology.
posted by delmoi at 12:30 AM on March 30, 2006
This is unfortunately a very big problem with copyright law. Not only for software. There is a huge amount of literary work, film, etc that simply can't be accessed without violating some unknown entities copyright.
But if you don't know who the copyright owner is, and no one is making any money off of it, then there's nothing particularly wrong with distributing it. There's always a chance you could get sued out of the blue though.
As far as typing of the dead though, that was a fairly recent title, only a few years old, and it would still work on the vast majority of PCs. Sega could still make money off of it if they wanted to, maybe through one of those game licensing systems I've seen ads for.
Also, you're strictly wrong. There is a recognition in the rules created by the library of congress for circumventing DRM. It's legal to circumvent DRM in cases where a work is 'abandoned' and can no longer be played on modern technology.
posted by delmoi at 12:30 AM on March 30, 2006
Yeah, I've got TOTD for Dreamcast also. And two DC keyboards! I'm so cool.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:35 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:35 AM on March 30, 2006
Gah! Metafilter's server shat it's pants for a while...
Home of the Underdogs has historically been very respectful of reasonable copyright holders (those that are themselves, selling new copies of an old game). I'm pretty sure they've taken stuff down before when there was a good reason too. They are a classic example of what is "best of the web" (even with their restrictive .htaccess rules)
Pontius Pilate: They do link to sites selling dead stock copies of the games. If the game is available new, in a form reasonably close to the form it originally came in, they don't host a copy of it.
terpsichoria: I should add the batshitinsane tag! I pondered it when composing the post, but held back. In retrospect, this game is totally batshitinsane.
posted by blasdelf at 3:38 AM on March 30, 2006
Home of the Underdogs has historically been very respectful of reasonable copyright holders (those that are themselves, selling new copies of an old game). I'm pretty sure they've taken stuff down before when there was a good reason too. They are a classic example of what is "best of the web" (even with their restrictive .htaccess rules)
Pontius Pilate: They do link to sites selling dead stock copies of the games. If the game is available new, in a form reasonably close to the form it originally came in, they don't host a copy of it.
terpsichoria: I should add the batshitinsane tag! I pondered it when composing the post, but held back. In retrospect, this game is totally batshitinsane.
posted by blasdelf at 3:38 AM on March 30, 2006
I'm currently trying to track down a copy of the Japanese version for PC.
I don't know if anyone is able to help though :(
posted by Talez at 4:20 AM on March 30, 2006
I don't know if anyone is able to help though :(
posted by Talez at 4:20 AM on March 30, 2006
blasdef: Yes.
Faint of Butt: You sonovabitch. I'm coming over.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 4:21 AM on March 30, 2006
Faint of Butt: You sonovabitch. I'm coming over.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 4:21 AM on March 30, 2006
legal issues aside, there's absolutely no way for Sega to make money off this game any more
Wrong. Sega has the option of providing Dreamcast titles for Nintendo's upcoming Vitrual Console, or remaking the game at a later date with enhanced graphics. Though the majority of House/Typing of the Dead titles been out of circulation, their licenses are still under protection. ,
(Let's also remember that a heightened sense of of piety doesn't excuse the abusing of MeFi's policies.)
posted by Smart Dalek at 4:27 AM on March 30, 2006
Wrong. Sega has the option of providing Dreamcast titles for Nintendo's upcoming Vitrual Console, or remaking the game at a later date with enhanced graphics. Though the majority of House/Typing of the Dead titles been out of circulation, their licenses are still under protection. ,
(Let's also remember that a heightened sense of of piety doesn't excuse the abusing of MeFi's policies.)
posted by Smart Dalek at 4:27 AM on March 30, 2006
Sega has the option of providing Dreamcast titles for Nintendo's upcoming Vitrual Console
Is the Rev going to have the storage space for Dreamcast games, then? Awesome!
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 4:44 AM on March 30, 2006
Is the Rev going to have the storage space for Dreamcast games, then? Awesome!
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 4:44 AM on March 30, 2006
Sega has the option of providing Dreamcast titles for Nintendo's upcoming Vitrual Console
I would actually eat my hat. Megadrive games are confirmed, I'd be surprised but not gobsmacked to see Saturn games, but DC games? And a DC game that relies on keyboard input, at that? I suppose we'll be seeing a full keyboard released as a dongle for the Rev freehand as well.
And frogan, with regard to that subscription retro-gaming service, each and every one of those games has been pirated to high heaven since it was released. If you're suggesting that piracy of something like ToTD will prevent Sega including it in a service like that in future and profiting from its inclusion, I don't see any evidence in gametap.
All this talk of digital distribution and opportunity costs is probably thrilling for the economically-minded, but we're talking about potential rather than actual lost profits, aren't we? When Sega come up with a means of legally obtaining games like this, I absolutely think talking about the sales being lost to torrents and the like will be valid. If, by then, everyone who wanted to play the game already has via piracy and doesn't want it any more, than that's a shame. On the other hand, even with a limited number of original copies in existence changing hands via the second-hand market, and particularly for such a niche game, I would imagine many of the people interested enough to have paid for a re-released version will have had their fill via Ebay and sold it on if Sega take too long in making new copies available, and the developers still won't have seen a penny. I'm not convinced it makes any real difference, but it allows enthusiasts to play old games now rather than waiting years for a legal option that might never surface.
Anyway, taking Sega specifically, they've yet to even try to capitalise on classics like Panzer Dragoon Saga, which are from a whole generation before something like The Typing of the Dead. There's still no way to pay for that and have the money go to the developers, and it's eight years old. If the options are either letting pieces of gaming's cultural history get mothballed or stealing potential, theoretical profits from a distribution system that doesn't exist yet and may never exist, I know which side I come down on.
posted by terpsichoria at 5:14 AM on March 30, 2006
I would actually eat my hat. Megadrive games are confirmed, I'd be surprised but not gobsmacked to see Saturn games, but DC games? And a DC game that relies on keyboard input, at that? I suppose we'll be seeing a full keyboard released as a dongle for the Rev freehand as well.
And frogan, with regard to that subscription retro-gaming service, each and every one of those games has been pirated to high heaven since it was released. If you're suggesting that piracy of something like ToTD will prevent Sega including it in a service like that in future and profiting from its inclusion, I don't see any evidence in gametap.
All this talk of digital distribution and opportunity costs is probably thrilling for the economically-minded, but we're talking about potential rather than actual lost profits, aren't we? When Sega come up with a means of legally obtaining games like this, I absolutely think talking about the sales being lost to torrents and the like will be valid. If, by then, everyone who wanted to play the game already has via piracy and doesn't want it any more, than that's a shame. On the other hand, even with a limited number of original copies in existence changing hands via the second-hand market, and particularly for such a niche game, I would imagine many of the people interested enough to have paid for a re-released version will have had their fill via Ebay and sold it on if Sega take too long in making new copies available, and the developers still won't have seen a penny. I'm not convinced it makes any real difference, but it allows enthusiasts to play old games now rather than waiting years for a legal option that might never surface.
Anyway, taking Sega specifically, they've yet to even try to capitalise on classics like Panzer Dragoon Saga, which are from a whole generation before something like The Typing of the Dead. There's still no way to pay for that and have the money go to the developers, and it's eight years old. If the options are either letting pieces of gaming's cultural history get mothballed or stealing potential, theoretical profits from a distribution system that doesn't exist yet and may never exist, I know which side I come down on.
posted by terpsichoria at 5:14 AM on March 30, 2006
Yeah why the hell do people always seem to come out of the woodwork to say:
They always seem to come lately, whether it's a vinyl rip album blog hosting it's files on rapidshare or links to ROMS and abandonware. They didn't seem to shit all over the Home of the Underdogs FPP though. Maybe it's a relatively recent phenomena?
posted by blasdelf at 5:44 AM on March 30, 2006
"Your Stealing!!1! No posting links to copyrighted files!! The owners might hypothetically be suffering!!" We must respect copyright above all things, even our ability to appreciate the work at all!Every time someone posts a link to copies of stuff that's long out of print and unattainable except through finding a rare, expensive, used copy (where none of the sale price even theoretically gets back to the creators).
They always seem to come lately, whether it's a vinyl rip album blog hosting it's files on rapidshare or links to ROMS and abandonware. They didn't seem to shit all over the Home of the Underdogs FPP though. Maybe it's a relatively recent phenomena?
posted by blasdelf at 5:44 AM on March 30, 2006
As a side note, if you want to rummage around Underdogs today, just copy:
209.120.136.200 community.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.203 dfg.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.196 files.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.205 mac.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.197 old.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.207 ron.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.194 the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.195 www.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.209 zzt.the-underdogs.org
to your host file.
Just downloaded the old buggy-as-hell Magic: The Gathering computer game. Promises to be days of Kird Ape related fun.
posted by Simon! at 5:59 AM on March 30, 2006
209.120.136.200 community.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.203 dfg.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.196 files.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.205 mac.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.197 old.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.207 ron.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.194 the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.195 www.the-underdogs.org
209.120.136.209 zzt.the-underdogs.org
to your host file.
Just downloaded the old buggy-as-hell Magic: The Gathering computer game. Promises to be days of Kird Ape related fun.
posted by Simon! at 5:59 AM on March 30, 2006
Faint of Butt: You sonovabitch. I'm coming over.
Hey, if you want to fly from Hawaii to Maryland just to play my copy of Typing of the Dead, who am I to say no? I'll take you on in SNK vs. Capcom 2, also.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:27 AM on March 30, 2006
Hey, if you want to fly from Hawaii to Maryland just to play my copy of Typing of the Dead, who am I to say no? I'll take you on in SNK vs. Capcom 2, also.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:27 AM on March 30, 2006
I just checked and does not appear that there is any ripped copy of Typing of the Dead for the Dreamcast. Apparently ripping a Dreamcast GD-ROM is quite an undertaking.
I guess even if someone did get a copy to someone who could rip it, you'd still have to have keyboards to play it with. They only seem to cost $5 a pop on the amazon.com marketplace, and the game is just another $5. Probably not worth the trouble to pirate.
posted by blasdelf at 6:48 AM on March 30, 2006
I guess even if someone did get a copy to someone who could rip it, you'd still have to have keyboards to play it with. They only seem to cost $5 a pop on the amazon.com marketplace, and the game is just another $5. Probably not worth the trouble to pirate.
posted by blasdelf at 6:48 AM on March 30, 2006
Why Typing of the Dead is the funniest game ever made
posted by ZippityBuddha at 7:15 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by ZippityBuddha at 7:15 AM on March 30, 2006
TTOTD is one of the most fun games I have ever played. There is one moment I remember from the final battle (I'd reveal it, but I don't want to spoil anyone's enjoyment) that will stick with me forever, a sudden revelation under pressure that was absolutely brilliant to experience.
And besides, it's hilarious. Everyone should play this game.
posted by blacklite at 8:08 AM on March 30, 2006
And besides, it's hilarious. Everyone should play this game.
posted by blacklite at 8:08 AM on March 30, 2006
frogan
Don't Copy That Floppy seriously made my day. I don't know if it would be a dupe, but that's plain ripe for a FPP. Thank you.
posted by themadjuggler at 8:23 AM on March 30, 2006
Don't Copy That Floppy seriously made my day. I don't know if it would be a dupe, but that's plain ripe for a FPP. Thank you.
posted by themadjuggler at 8:23 AM on March 30, 2006
I'm sure DCTF has been an FPP already ... although maybe it should be again. Best rap ever. If I had actually seen that when I was a ripe young age, I might have taken it into consideration. This guy means business. Don't don't don't don't copy that floppy.
posted by blacklite at 8:38 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by blacklite at 8:38 AM on March 30, 2006
I used to have the ToTD, Keyboard, Mouse and Unreal Tournament. I am coolest
posted by subaruwrx at 9:33 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by subaruwrx at 9:33 AM on March 30, 2006
The Typing of the Dead is the most surreal and fun typing game I've ever played. There is no greater joy than typing a word, and seeing your letters/bullets slam into the zombies. heheh
posted by graventy at 10:08 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by graventy at 10:08 AM on March 30, 2006
I played this game in an arcade in Japan like 2 years ago - it was ridiculously fun, I could barely drag myself away from it. Thanks for bringing me back to that moment... also reminded me of another game I played that day in the arcade - the dog-walking game, where you walked on a treadmill holding a leash and your dog was shown on a big screen in front of you. Incidentally, I stopped to let my dog eat something off the street and he died..
posted by venus in furs at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by venus in furs at 10:26 AM on March 30, 2006
I have never considered valied, even for a moment, the "potential loss of revenue" anti-infringement argument. It just doesn't hold water. It's like the young earth creationist viewpoint; the evidence just isn't there to back it up and it isn't worth the effort to continually refute it, yet the argument keeps getting trotted out like clockwork.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2006
posted by solid-one-love at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2006
I have never considered valied (sic), even for a moment, the "potential loss of revenue" anti-infringement argument. It just doesn't hold water.
Demise of Napster
+
Inability of other P2P networks to gain mainstream traction
=
The success of ITunes.
Again, you do what you want. Just be truthful about it. But hey, information wants to be free. Peace out.
posted by frogan at 12:07 PM on March 30, 2006
Demise of Napster
+
Inability of other P2P networks to gain mainstream traction
=
The success of ITunes.
Again, you do what you want. Just be truthful about it. But hey, information wants to be free. Peace out.
posted by frogan at 12:07 PM on March 30, 2006
Home of The Underdogs hosted a game I made myself which was distributed through a shareware license. It is listed on their site as "Freeware", and I was not asked if this would be okay.
In fact, I am perfectly happy with this, and am honored that a game I made as a school project is a Top Dog, but I have to wonder about the legality of simply assuming that titles are freely distributable. Not the morality, mind you, the legality.
/derail
Thank you so much for posting this link. I can't wait to get home. I actually played the arcade version in Japan a few years ago and thought "Now this is the kind of thing you'd never see in the states." Glad I was wrong.
posted by Durhey at 1:03 PM on March 30, 2006
In fact, I am perfectly happy with this, and am honored that a game I made as a school project is a Top Dog, but I have to wonder about the legality of simply assuming that titles are freely distributable. Not the morality, mind you, the legality.
/derail
Thank you so much for posting this link. I can't wait to get home. I actually played the arcade version in Japan a few years ago and thought "Now this is the kind of thing you'd never see in the states." Glad I was wrong.
posted by Durhey at 1:03 PM on March 30, 2006
Faint of Butt, I also have two DC keyboards, so my cool-fu is at least equal to yours. I also have ToeJam & Earl and Todd's Adventures in Slime World for Genesis, however, does that push me over the edge?
Dreamcast games are potentially over a gigabyte in size, *and* I doubt any next-gen system could emulate one. It's possible, however, that the owners could just port their DC games. For reference, the Revolution will have 512mb of on-board Flash memory, a SD card port, and two USB ports as well, in addition to possible "unannounced" storage options.
blacklight, I've played that final battle, but I don't remember what you're talking about. Care to spill the beans?
Anyway, Typing of the Dead will always stick out in my mind as being the very first video game in history to include the words "rhythm method" in any context.
posted by JHarris at 1:12 PM on March 30, 2006
Dreamcast games are potentially over a gigabyte in size, *and* I doubt any next-gen system could emulate one. It's possible, however, that the owners could just port their DC games. For reference, the Revolution will have 512mb of on-board Flash memory, a SD card port, and two USB ports as well, in addition to possible "unannounced" storage options.
blacklight, I've played that final battle, but I don't remember what you're talking about. Care to spill the beans?
Anyway, Typing of the Dead will always stick out in my mind as being the very first video game in history to include the words "rhythm method" in any context.
posted by JHarris at 1:12 PM on March 30, 2006
And Durhey, don't keep quiet about the game. Use this message as your excuse to tell about it, as I am curious. (Or post it to Projects.)
posted by JHarris at 1:14 PM on March 30, 2006
posted by JHarris at 1:14 PM on March 30, 2006
My friend saw Typing of the Dead in the $5 bargain bin at EB Games one day and picked it up as a joke. We were both surprised... it's actually a pretty fun game.
Plus the characters having Dreamcasts strapped to their backs as weapons is hilarious.
posted by Sibrax at 1:28 PM on March 30, 2006
Plus the characters having Dreamcasts strapped to their backs as weapons is hilarious.
posted by Sibrax at 1:28 PM on March 30, 2006
This game looks hilarious. I'll be playing it tonight. Thanks for the up!
posted by jcruelty at 1:41 PM on March 30, 2006
posted by jcruelty at 1:41 PM on March 30, 2006
JHarris, At the risk of pseudo-self-linking: here. I will warn you that it is 10 years old (not 16 as HoTU claims), and will require an old Mac or emulator to run.
posted by Durhey at 2:31 PM on March 30, 2006
posted by Durhey at 2:31 PM on March 30, 2006
Again, you do what you want. Just be truthful about it.
I am. I don't think you are. Nothng in your equation is compelling evidence (or evidence of any kind) that the fiction of "potential loss of revenue" is worth discussing except to deride ithe idea utterly.
(I apologize for the typo in my previous post, but I'm laid up in bed with a leg broken in three places. Some might call that a link to a potential loss in accuracy. Me, I see it as being my own damn fault that I didn't explore other means of increasing my accuracy. So, again, sorry.)
posted by solid-one-love at 2:37 PM on March 30, 2006
I am. I don't think you are. Nothng in your equation is compelling evidence (or evidence of any kind) that the fiction of "potential loss of revenue" is worth discussing except to deride ithe idea utterly.
(I apologize for the typo in my previous post, but I'm laid up in bed with a leg broken in three places. Some might call that a link to a potential loss in accuracy. Me, I see it as being my own damn fault that I didn't explore other means of increasing my accuracy. So, again, sorry.)
posted by solid-one-love at 2:37 PM on March 30, 2006
Is the Rev going to have the storage space for Dreamcast games, then? Awesome!
Supposedly you'll be able to attach external drives to it.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 3:17 PM on March 30, 2006
Supposedly you'll be able to attach external drives to it.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 3:17 PM on March 30, 2006
Hey, cool idea there Durhey! Mad props have been credited to your account.
posted by JHarris at 3:40 PM on March 30, 2006
posted by JHarris at 3:40 PM on March 30, 2006
Inability of other P2P networks to gain mainstream traction
18 months ago: BitTorrent accounts for an astounding 35 percent of all the traffic on the Internet -- more than all other peer-to-peer programs combined -- and dwarfs mainstream traffic like Web pages.
It's only gotten bigger since then. If that's not mainstream, well, what is?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:15 PM on March 30, 2006
18 months ago: BitTorrent accounts for an astounding 35 percent of all the traffic on the Internet -- more than all other peer-to-peer programs combined -- and dwarfs mainstream traffic like Web pages.
It's only gotten bigger since then. If that's not mainstream, well, what is?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:15 PM on March 30, 2006
I can vouch for Typing of the Dead having played the arcade version, DC version and PC version. I don't know why I thought that was worth mentioning, but there it is.
Typing of the Dead can still be found for sale used and I believe it kicks around $50.
Frankly I think Sega would be more than happy if people downloaded it by whichever means and gave them some new business when the Nintendo Revolution comes around.
Aside from Namco they really had some of the most innovating and interesting games made. Rez for PS2 is *still* one of my favorite all-time games.
posted by gnash at 6:36 PM on March 30, 2006
Typing of the Dead can still be found for sale used and I believe it kicks around $50.
Frankly I think Sega would be more than happy if people downloaded it by whichever means and gave them some new business when the Nintendo Revolution comes around.
Aside from Namco they really had some of the most innovating and interesting games made. Rez for PS2 is *still* one of my favorite all-time games.
posted by gnash at 6:36 PM on March 30, 2006
Dreamcast games are potentially over a gigabyte in size, *and* I doubt any next-gen system could emulate one. It's possible, however, that the owners could just port their DC games. For reference, the Revolution will have 512mb of on-board Flash memory, a SD card port, and two USB ports as well, in addition to possible "unannounced" storage options.
There's a DC emulator out for the PC that can do a fair job of Ikaruga on our 2ghzish machine, so with a bit of finessing it could probably fit into the Rev. The problem in the way of DC games downloadable for the Rev is that I doubt Nintendo, with their dedication to simplicity and ease-of-use, will want 500mb+ downloads for their virtual console. They'll likely want it to keep any game download under, say, 100mb, just for the "click and play"ness of it all, which may allow something like Silvergun to sneak in but disqualifies most DC games.
The other issue is that, even if the storage is expandable, I doubt they'll want any games downloadable that'll fill up the whole block of 512mb that comes with the machine. Anything that makes the system hard to use for teens (and under) is likely to be avoided.
The Typing of the Dead was released for £4.99 (less than US$10) in the UK and it sank without trace. Sega have discovered that this game has next-to-no commercial potential and the chances of a re-release in any form are close to zero. Download it, play it, and then go and buy Outrun 2: Coast 2 Coast to say thanks! It's available on Xbox, PS2, and PSP! Go, kids, go!
You'll thank me. You can play it with the Jet Set Radio soundtrack on and everything.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 11:42 PM on March 30, 2006
There's a DC emulator out for the PC that can do a fair job of Ikaruga on our 2ghzish machine, so with a bit of finessing it could probably fit into the Rev. The problem in the way of DC games downloadable for the Rev is that I doubt Nintendo, with their dedication to simplicity and ease-of-use, will want 500mb+ downloads for their virtual console. They'll likely want it to keep any game download under, say, 100mb, just for the "click and play"ness of it all, which may allow something like Silvergun to sneak in but disqualifies most DC games.
The other issue is that, even if the storage is expandable, I doubt they'll want any games downloadable that'll fill up the whole block of 512mb that comes with the machine. Anything that makes the system hard to use for teens (and under) is likely to be avoided.
The Typing of the Dead was released for £4.99 (less than US$10) in the UK and it sank without trace. Sega have discovered that this game has next-to-no commercial potential and the chances of a re-release in any form are close to zero. Download it, play it, and then go and buy Outrun 2: Coast 2 Coast to say thanks! It's available on Xbox, PS2, and PSP! Go, kids, go!
You'll thank me. You can play it with the Jet Set Radio soundtrack on and everything.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 11:42 PM on March 30, 2006
There's a DC emulator out for the PC that can do a fair job of Ikaruga on our 2ghzish machine, so with a bit of finessing it could probably fit into the Rev.
Ikaruga has the advantage of being primarily a 2D game, while Typing of the Dead is full of polygons, so it may not be a fair test. Seems unlikely, although no one would be happier than I to be proven wrong on this point.
The other issue is that, even if the storage is expandable, I doubt they'll want any games downloadable that'll fill up the whole block of 512mb that comes with the machine. Anything that makes the system hard to use for teens (and under) is likely to be avoided.
They sold games whose saves filled up entire Memory Card 59s back when the 251 was just a rumor.
Download it, play it, and then go and buy Outrun 2: Coast 2 Coast to say thanks! It's available on Xbox, PS2, and PSP! Go, kids, go!
Um, no, I don't think I will.
posted by JHarris at 12:18 AM on March 31, 2006
Ikaruga has the advantage of being primarily a 2D game, while Typing of the Dead is full of polygons, so it may not be a fair test. Seems unlikely, although no one would be happier than I to be proven wrong on this point.
The other issue is that, even if the storage is expandable, I doubt they'll want any games downloadable that'll fill up the whole block of 512mb that comes with the machine. Anything that makes the system hard to use for teens (and under) is likely to be avoided.
They sold games whose saves filled up entire Memory Card 59s back when the 251 was just a rumor.
Download it, play it, and then go and buy Outrun 2: Coast 2 Coast to say thanks! It's available on Xbox, PS2, and PSP! Go, kids, go!
Um, no, I don't think I will.
posted by JHarris at 12:18 AM on March 31, 2006
Ikaruga has the advantage of being primarily a 2D game
The backgrounds and the "sprites" are all 3D, aren't they? It was only an example. Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, and Sonic Adventure 2 all run acceptably too. Google for Chankast. A lot of games run smoothly, although there are loads of bugs since it's only an alpha, and one that hasn't been updated for yonks, too. Sigh.
It proves the point, anyway: if a single-core, 2ghz CPU and a mid-range GPU card can run DC games on an emulator that's a long way from completion, you just might be able to squeeze them into the Rev. Although I don't think that's going to happen, sadly.
They sold games whose saves filled up entire Memory Card 59s back when the 251 was just a rumor.
Yes, but you can buy a new Memory Card 59 -- or a third-party equivalent -- for peanuts (I got my Cube when it was still relatively new and I got a GAME-branded 16mb card for about £10). An external storage source of 1gig plus is going to be more costly. If Nintendo are going to pitch the Rev as an out-of-the-box solution for £150 or however much they're unlikely to offer downloads that are going to cost you another £50 on top of that. If, after console and video cables and hard drive and whatever they're only a few quid cheaper than an Xbox 360 they're only going to sell to the Nintendo fans. I think this will probably be the thing that stops DC games from being ported. I'd love to be proven wrong, though -- the DC's funny RGB mode doesn't work in our new TV!
Um, no, I don't think I will.
Everyone hates enthusiasm.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 7:33 AM on March 31, 2006
The backgrounds and the "sprites" are all 3D, aren't they? It was only an example. Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, and Sonic Adventure 2 all run acceptably too. Google for Chankast. A lot of games run smoothly, although there are loads of bugs since it's only an alpha, and one that hasn't been updated for yonks, too. Sigh.
It proves the point, anyway: if a single-core, 2ghz CPU and a mid-range GPU card can run DC games on an emulator that's a long way from completion, you just might be able to squeeze them into the Rev. Although I don't think that's going to happen, sadly.
They sold games whose saves filled up entire Memory Card 59s back when the 251 was just a rumor.
Yes, but you can buy a new Memory Card 59 -- or a third-party equivalent -- for peanuts (I got my Cube when it was still relatively new and I got a GAME-branded 16mb card for about £10). An external storage source of 1gig plus is going to be more costly. If Nintendo are going to pitch the Rev as an out-of-the-box solution for £150 or however much they're unlikely to offer downloads that are going to cost you another £50 on top of that. If, after console and video cables and hard drive and whatever they're only a few quid cheaper than an Xbox 360 they're only going to sell to the Nintendo fans. I think this will probably be the thing that stops DC games from being ported. I'd love to be proven wrong, though -- the DC's funny RGB mode doesn't work in our new TV!
Um, no, I don't think I will.
Everyone hates enthusiasm.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 7:33 AM on March 31, 2006
They sold games whose saves filled up entire Memory Card 59s back when the 251 was just a rumor.
I can't think of any other than Pokemon Colosseum and Animal Crossing, and both of those shipped with a free Memory Card 59, for god's sake. Nintendo are observably averse to releasing games that require add-ons that aren't included in the box (the microphone for Odama, the bongos for Donkey Konga, the GBA link lead with Four Swords etc), and have been since the N64 days, presumably having learned from Sega's disasters with the Mega CD and 32X. Unless they up the amount of storage in the Rev before it launches, I really can't see the Virtual Console menu offering Dreamcast games to download then showing a screen with 'not available unless you go out and buy the 20gb USB hard drive' when you select one. While it might be an enticing selling point to have DC games available, it wouldn't be very Nintendo at all to obsolete the console's built-in storage from the point of release, or to have anything available that won't work without an addon.
It's all speculation for now, of course (and I'd much rather the speculation about the Rev being user-creativity focused was true than the speculation about Dreamcast games on the VC), but it'd take a massive turnabout from a very consistent company to get DC games on the Rev.
posted by terpsichoria at 7:47 AM on March 31, 2006
I can't think of any other than Pokemon Colosseum and Animal Crossing, and both of those shipped with a free Memory Card 59, for god's sake. Nintendo are observably averse to releasing games that require add-ons that aren't included in the box (the microphone for Odama, the bongos for Donkey Konga, the GBA link lead with Four Swords etc), and have been since the N64 days, presumably having learned from Sega's disasters with the Mega CD and 32X. Unless they up the amount of storage in the Rev before it launches, I really can't see the Virtual Console menu offering Dreamcast games to download then showing a screen with 'not available unless you go out and buy the 20gb USB hard drive' when you select one. While it might be an enticing selling point to have DC games available, it wouldn't be very Nintendo at all to obsolete the console's built-in storage from the point of release, or to have anything available that won't work without an addon.
It's all speculation for now, of course (and I'd much rather the speculation about the Rev being user-creativity focused was true than the speculation about Dreamcast games on the VC), but it'd take a massive turnabout from a very consistent company to get DC games on the Rev.
posted by terpsichoria at 7:47 AM on March 31, 2006
The Typing of the Dead! Awesome!
Coincidentally, I spent a huge chunk of time last night watching video of the upcoming PS2 game Zombies Vs. Ambulances, still another genre-bendingly bizarre survival-horror crossover in the spirit of "Crazy Taxi."
posted by jennanemone at 8:10 AM on March 31, 2006
Coincidentally, I spent a huge chunk of time last night watching video of the upcoming PS2 game Zombies Vs. Ambulances, still another genre-bendingly bizarre survival-horror crossover in the spirit of "Crazy Taxi."
posted by jennanemone at 8:10 AM on March 31, 2006
Nintendo are observably averse to releasing games that require add-ons that aren't included in the box (the microphone for Odama, the bongos for Donkey Konga, the GBA link lead with Four Swords etc), and have been since the N64 days, presumably having learned from Sega's disasters with the Mega CD and 32X.
Except for memory cards themselves: practically all Gamecube games require them, but other than the examples you gave (and the Pokemon game comes with one?), games do not come with them. And there are Gamecube games that have saves that are larger than a Memory Card 59.
But if that doesn't convince you, the N64 had games that required the 4mb system memory expansion but didn't come with one. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask will not run without it. There are also games that technically run without one but have much diminished features in that case, like Perfect Dark and Gauntlet Legends.
Nintendo DOES like to make sure that necessary peripherials come with games that require them. That's one of the reasons the Revolution controller is a big deal, for they won't have to distribute any parts at all: the wand comes in the box. But I don't think they'd let it stand in their way if they had a notion to do something really cool, so long as the peripherial were the only physical object needed for purchase beyond the console.
Virtual Console games would thus be a bit of an exception to this all anyway, since they won't be coming in a box. There is nothing to pack in. There would probably be a memory warning if a large game were downloaded, and that's all. Note that this is not to say that Dreamcast games will be made available for Revolution -- I'm rather sure they won't, but it won't be because of memory size.
posted by JHarris at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2006
Except for memory cards themselves: practically all Gamecube games require them, but other than the examples you gave (and the Pokemon game comes with one?), games do not come with them. And there are Gamecube games that have saves that are larger than a Memory Card 59.
But if that doesn't convince you, the N64 had games that required the 4mb system memory expansion but didn't come with one. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask will not run without it. There are also games that technically run without one but have much diminished features in that case, like Perfect Dark and Gauntlet Legends.
Nintendo DOES like to make sure that necessary peripherials come with games that require them. That's one of the reasons the Revolution controller is a big deal, for they won't have to distribute any parts at all: the wand comes in the box. But I don't think they'd let it stand in their way if they had a notion to do something really cool, so long as the peripherial were the only physical object needed for purchase beyond the console.
Virtual Console games would thus be a bit of an exception to this all anyway, since they won't be coming in a box. There is nothing to pack in. There would probably be a memory warning if a large game were downloaded, and that's all. Note that this is not to say that Dreamcast games will be made available for Revolution -- I'm rather sure they won't, but it won't be because of memory size.
posted by JHarris at 9:30 AM on March 31, 2006
The backgrounds and the "sprites" are all 3D, aren't they?
I don't honestly know, as Ikaruga is one of those games that came out when I was between semesters and vanished from stores before I could afford it. The rule of thumb is that emulation doesn't become viable across architectures until at least two generations later. The news about Sonic Adventure is interesting, I may have to look into that....
Yes, but you can buy a new Memory Card 59 -- or a third-party equivalent -- for peanuts (I got my Cube when it was still relatively new and I got a GAME-branded 16mb card for about £10). An external storage source of 1gig plus is going to be more costly.
What are the sizes of SD cards? Anyway, you can buy USB drives in excess of 512 megabytes, if they allow storage on that medium. I'm not disputing that it'd be difficult, and unlikely, but that I'm just not sure Nintendo would be that averse to it. At least, I'd like to believe they wouldn't.
Concerning enthusiasm: it's not hating it so much as being suspecious of it. Anyway, I have to admit I'm not all that excited about Outrun. It could be the coolest driving game in the world, but at the end of the day it's still another driving game, and there are way too many of those floating around.
posted by JHarris at 9:45 AM on March 31, 2006
I don't honestly know, as Ikaruga is one of those games that came out when I was between semesters and vanished from stores before I could afford it. The rule of thumb is that emulation doesn't become viable across architectures until at least two generations later. The news about Sonic Adventure is interesting, I may have to look into that....
Yes, but you can buy a new Memory Card 59 -- or a third-party equivalent -- for peanuts (I got my Cube when it was still relatively new and I got a GAME-branded 16mb card for about £10). An external storage source of 1gig plus is going to be more costly.
What are the sizes of SD cards? Anyway, you can buy USB drives in excess of 512 megabytes, if they allow storage on that medium. I'm not disputing that it'd be difficult, and unlikely, but that I'm just not sure Nintendo would be that averse to it. At least, I'd like to believe they wouldn't.
Concerning enthusiasm: it's not hating it so much as being suspecious of it. Anyway, I have to admit I'm not all that excited about Outrun. It could be the coolest driving game in the world, but at the end of the day it's still another driving game, and there are way too many of those floating around.
posted by JHarris at 9:45 AM on March 31, 2006
The rule of thumb is that emulation doesn't become viable across architectures until at least two generations later.
The Saturn requires a much more powerful PC to emulate than the Dreamcast does. Sega are too batshit insane to follow rules-of-thumb. That's why we love 'em! Hell, the DC itself could just about cope with PSX games if you stroked in the right places and sang it soothing songs.
Anyway, I have to admit I'm not all that excited about Outrun. It could be the coolest driving game in the world, but at the end of the day it's still another driving game
The only driving games out there much like Outrun 2 are other Outruns. Outrun has cars in it and Odama has armies in it, but the one is as much a driving game as the other is an RTS.
As far as the storage goes, I rather hope you're correct, and that Nintendo will offer large games to download. Given their recent history -- their strategy with the Cube offers more clues to their behaviour than does their strategy with the N64, I believe, for Nintendo have been much chastened since then -- I still believe that they will be very reluctant to provide games for download that equal or exceed the size of the storage offered with the machine.
And there are Gamecube games that have saves that are larger than a Memory Card 59
This is a surprising statement, unless said games are third party? I had thought that all first party Cube games that required an unusal amount of space came with a 59. Unless the situation was different in the US.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 11:20 AM on March 31, 2006
The Saturn requires a much more powerful PC to emulate than the Dreamcast does. Sega are too batshit insane to follow rules-of-thumb. That's why we love 'em! Hell, the DC itself could just about cope with PSX games if you stroked in the right places and sang it soothing songs.
Anyway, I have to admit I'm not all that excited about Outrun. It could be the coolest driving game in the world, but at the end of the day it's still another driving game
The only driving games out there much like Outrun 2 are other Outruns. Outrun has cars in it and Odama has armies in it, but the one is as much a driving game as the other is an RTS.
As far as the storage goes, I rather hope you're correct, and that Nintendo will offer large games to download. Given their recent history -- their strategy with the Cube offers more clues to their behaviour than does their strategy with the N64, I believe, for Nintendo have been much chastened since then -- I still believe that they will be very reluctant to provide games for download that equal or exceed the size of the storage offered with the machine.
And there are Gamecube games that have saves that are larger than a Memory Card 59
This is a surprising statement, unless said games are third party? I had thought that all first party Cube games that required an unusal amount of space came with a 59. Unless the situation was different in the US.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 11:20 AM on March 31, 2006
This is a surprising statement, unless said games are third party? I had thought that all first party Cube games that required an unusal amount of space came with a 59. Unless the situation was different in the US.
Hmm. I may actually be mistaken on this one, now that I examine the memory. I do know that Smash Bros. has a memory size in the teens, but that you can't take more than two or three screenshots in the game before you reach capacity, and the Zelda Collector's Edition disk (the one with Majora's Mask on it) takes up a surprising amount of space if you have one save from each game, but it turns out I can't name a game that has huge requirements, unless it were the second Pokemon game for GC.
posted by JHarris at 1:11 AM on April 1, 2006
Hmm. I may actually be mistaken on this one, now that I examine the memory. I do know that Smash Bros. has a memory size in the teens, but that you can't take more than two or three screenshots in the game before you reach capacity, and the Zelda Collector's Edition disk (the one with Majora's Mask on it) takes up a surprising amount of space if you have one save from each game, but it turns out I can't name a game that has huge requirements, unless it were the second Pokemon game for GC.
posted by JHarris at 1:11 AM on April 1, 2006
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