Emmitt Till case returns to Missisippi
June 26, 2006 11:36 AM Subscribe
Is he still just another N-word? Emmett Louis Till was black, 14 and way down south in the land of Bubba when he whistled at a white wommun. What came back north in a box was barely recognizable as a human being. The self-confessed murderers were declared not guilty by a jury of their toothless redneck peers, and apart from a song by Bob Dylan, that was it for Emmett Till.
That is, until work began on work began on the documentary, The Untold Story of Emmett Lois Till. Suddenly everybody wanted justice. Almost everybody. The Feds took up the investigation in 2004, and this March sent the findings back to the DA in Mississippi.
And, so far, that is it for Emmett Till. Any bets he's not no N-word no more, down in the lan' O cotton?
This post was deleted for the following reason: chill out on the editorial, eh?
"Is he still just another N-word?"
"toothless redneck peers"
Interesting how the times change.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:42 AM on June 26, 2006
"toothless redneck peers"
Interesting how the times change.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:42 AM on June 26, 2006
I was about to say. As loathsome as Till's killers and the jury who acquitted them were, using bigotry to attack bigotry is ignorant and ineffective.
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:43 AM on June 26, 2006
NTM, the stereotype of the typical racist as a 'toothless redneck,' is usually an educated northerner's way of scapegoating one group for something we all have a part in.
posted by jonmc at 11:45 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:45 AM on June 26, 2006
Inconsistent mixture of pseudo-Southern vernacular and Standard American English to establish pathos is also ineffective.
posted by mrmojoflying at 11:46 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by mrmojoflying at 11:46 AM on June 26, 2006
We're never going to have a sorely-needed Civil War II without anti-inbred rhetoric. Keep your liberal guilt to yourselves, sensitive people. Do you watch "The Guns of Navarone" and feel bad about the characterization of Germans?
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:48 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:48 AM on June 26, 2006
No collective sense of humor here, kindly move along.
posted by SweetJesus at 11:53 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by SweetJesus at 11:53 AM on June 26, 2006
(I'm not making a statgement about the efficacy of generalizations. I'm merely pleading for help to bring about a time when we see "Freedom Barbecue" and "Freedom Toast" on the menus of jingoistic northern restaurants. And strained relations with the President of Jesusland.)
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:56 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:56 AM on June 26, 2006
Mayor's got a right purty mouth.
But I don't look like Ned Beatty yet. But give me a few years.
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:57 AM on June 26, 2006
But I don't look like Ned Beatty yet. But give me a few years.
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:57 AM on June 26, 2006
This is how you make a post about Emmett Till.
Your post? Piece of shit, as the comments so far have indicated.
posted by dios at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2006
Your post? Piece of shit, as the comments so far have indicated.
posted by dios at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2006
That was over the line, so retracted, but you have completely bought the oversimplification that poor white southerners are responsible for a racist society despite also being impoverished and illiterate. It's a divide and conquer tactic. Wake up.
posted by jonmc at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2006
posted by jonmc at 11:59 AM on June 26, 2006
responsible for a racist society despite also being impoverished
How does being poor absolve one from responsibility for one's own prejudices?
posted by rxrfrx at 12:00 PM on June 26, 2006
How does being poor absolve one from responsibility for one's own prejudices?
posted by rxrfrx at 12:00 PM on June 26, 2006
I'm merely pleading for help to bring about a time when we see "Freedom Barbecue" and "Freedom Toast" on the menus of jingoistic northern restaurants.
I've seen it in NYC. The world is far more complicated than you'd imagine. But thanks for showing that the right dosen't have a monopoly of simplemindedness.
posted by jonmc at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2006
I've seen it in NYC. The world is far more complicated than you'd imagine. But thanks for showing that the right dosen't have a monopoly of simplemindedness.
posted by jonmc at 12:01 PM on June 26, 2006
How does being poor absolve one from responsibility for one's own prejudices?
It dosen't, but impoverished illiterates generally don't wield political and economic power, they merely are pawns of it. I'm merely pointing out the contradiction in the stereotype.
posted by jonmc at 12:02 PM on June 26, 2006
It dosen't, but impoverished illiterates generally don't wield political and economic power, they merely are pawns of it. I'm merely pointing out the contradiction in the stereotype.
posted by jonmc at 12:02 PM on June 26, 2006
I also have flagged a post for the first time.
Lets be honest with ourselves here. The actions that went on the south way back then were wrong. They are not excuseable and they never will be. Trust me, everyone down here (and I live in the south) knows that wether they admit it or not.
Having said all that, I would like to invite the poster to come on down and see what really has been going on down here since way back then. I think you would be suprised. Bubba isn't a "ni&&34" hatter anymore and while the racism still exist as it does anywhere in the US, more stides have been made than most realize.
It makes me sad.................................................by your post you prove that you haven't made any strides youself..................
posted by Mantix at 12:02 PM on June 26, 2006
Lets be honest with ourselves here. The actions that went on the south way back then were wrong. They are not excuseable and they never will be. Trust me, everyone down here (and I live in the south) knows that wether they admit it or not.
Having said all that, I would like to invite the poster to come on down and see what really has been going on down here since way back then. I think you would be suprised. Bubba isn't a "ni&&34" hatter anymore and while the racism still exist as it does anywhere in the US, more stides have been made than most realize.
It makes me sad.................................................by your post you prove that you haven't made any strides youself..................
posted by Mantix at 12:02 PM on June 26, 2006
If you know of something other than anger that is effective, than explain why such acts remain free of effective justice. Deal with "The N-Word:" it's what every black Mississippi citizen has heard for over a hundred years, and they still hear it. It's the last thing Till heard. Whitewash does it no justice. It's a White Word. The word, as used, is "Nigger."As in "This is what you get for talking to your betters, Nigger."
I can understand why you don't like the word. But you'd better be able to look at it. Look at it and hate it, but don't you dare try to hide it away.
posted by Perigee at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2006
I can understand why you don't like the word. But you'd better be able to look at it. Look at it and hate it, but don't you dare try to hide it away.
posted by Perigee at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2006
Perigee: It's almost like you're trying to make us care less about Till, by posting so obnoxiously.
posted by beniamino at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by beniamino at 12:04 PM on June 26, 2006
Thank you, Perigee. Without your groundbeaking use of "Southern racist speechification" and innovative "righteous indignation bleeding through sarcasm" writing techniques, I could not have fully grasped the tragedy of Emmet Till. Your smug condemnation of Mississippi in the 1950s is quite refreshing...
posted by banishedimmortal at 12:05 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by banishedimmortal at 12:05 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
jonmc - is this where you start defending the south as a bastion of freedom and tolerance? because... you know... rose-colored glasses and all...
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:07 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:07 PM on June 26, 2006
If you know of something other than anger that is effective,
It isn't the anger that's the problem. It's the hypocrisy.
posted by jonmc at 12:07 PM on June 26, 2006
It isn't the anger that's the problem. It's the hypocrisy.
posted by jonmc at 12:07 PM on June 26, 2006
jonmc - is this where you start defending the south as a bastion of freedom and tolerance?
Um, no. It's just that us Northerners don't have a lot to brag about in the race relations department either. There's an old saw that if only those big evil Bubbas would disappear, we'd all be living in a multiculti utopia singing Cumbaya. If you believe that, then you probably don't get out much.
posted by jonmc at 12:09 PM on June 26, 2006
Um, no. It's just that us Northerners don't have a lot to brag about in the race relations department either. There's an old saw that if only those big evil Bubbas would disappear, we'd all be living in a multiculti utopia singing Cumbaya. If you believe that, then you probably don't get out much.
posted by jonmc at 12:09 PM on June 26, 2006
I think the objection is that you used "N-word" instead of nigger. Ineffective and pretty annoying. Along with the "toothless hick" bigotry. Pretty telling.
posted by puke & cry at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by puke & cry at 12:10 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
hey dios, we get it! you think this post is NO GOOD.
thank you for your services. you are free to go.
posted by Hat Maui at 12:16 PM on June 26, 2006
thank you for your services. you are free to go.
posted by Hat Maui at 12:16 PM on June 26, 2006
"No collective sense of humor here, kindly move along."
Ah, this post is supposed to be funny.
Perigee writes "I can understand why you don't like the word. But you'd better be able to look at it. Look at it and hate it, but don't you dare try to hide it away."
Your writing style totally derailed your post. No one is discussing the links or probably even read them. You've been here a long time so you should know better. Unless of course your intent was to draw attention to yourself in which case way to go.
posted by Mitheral at 12:17 PM on June 26, 2006
Ah, this post is supposed to be funny.
Perigee writes "I can understand why you don't like the word. But you'd better be able to look at it. Look at it and hate it, but don't you dare try to hide it away."
Your writing style totally derailed your post. No one is discussing the links or probably even read them. You've been here a long time so you should know better. Unless of course your intent was to draw attention to yourself in which case way to go.
posted by Mitheral at 12:17 PM on June 26, 2006
As someone who's lived on both sides of the Mason-Dixon, both sides have issues with race that will probably never be fully ironed out. (Check out the race baiting on Craigslist during the recent transit strike if you don't believe me.)
That said, the wording of this post does nothing to create intelligent debate or an effective call to justice.
posted by lemoncello at 12:21 PM on June 26, 2006
That said, the wording of this post does nothing to create intelligent debate or an effective call to justice.
posted by lemoncello at 12:21 PM on June 26, 2006
That would have been the recent NYC transit strike.
posted by lemoncello at 12:23 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by lemoncello at 12:23 PM on June 26, 2006
Perigee, you appear to not understand that it was an objection to your inability to look at the "N-word" which drew the criticism.
posted by OmieWise at 12:24 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by OmieWise at 12:24 PM on June 26, 2006
hey hat maui, we get it! you think dios' comment is NO GOOD.
thank you for your services. you are free to go.
posted by dazed_one at 12:25 PM on June 26, 2006
thank you for your services. you are free to go.
posted by dazed_one at 12:25 PM on June 26, 2006
ah, the defenders of that famous minority, white men. because, as we all know, black women rule the world, really.
and dios, don't use that language around here, this is not your home thankfully
posted by matteo at 12:26 PM on June 26, 2006
and dios, don't use that language around here, this is not your home thankfully
posted by matteo at 12:26 PM on June 26, 2006
Trust me, everyone down here (and I live in the south) knows that wether they admit it or not.
really? i was born and raised in the south, and my family is still there. from what i experienced, and what they occasionally tell me, there are plenty of people in the south who not only don't feel that what "went on went on the south way back then" is wrong, they feel like it may not have gone far enough. these people are few in number, thank all the gods, but they're still there, and they pass that worldview on to some -- though by no means all -- of their offspring and neighbors.
what's really unfortunate is that their extreme stance enables the less overt racism one finds throughout the usa (despite what you'll read in the posts that'll soon appear proclaiming the south to be the sphere of racial progress and tolerance while the north is the bastion of insidious racism.)
anyway, perigee, you blew it with this post. given the chance, we liberals would much rather talk about how an issue is talked about instead of talking about the issue itself and how it might be addressed. the wording of your post very much enables that sort of liberal toothpicking. hence, this thread will soon dissolve into arguments about north vs. south, language, how liberals are actually the most vile racists on the planet (note that a liberal will put forth this argument), etc. poor emmet till won't even get a moment of silence.
.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:27 PM on June 26, 2006
really? i was born and raised in the south, and my family is still there. from what i experienced, and what they occasionally tell me, there are plenty of people in the south who not only don't feel that what "went on went on the south way back then" is wrong, they feel like it may not have gone far enough. these people are few in number, thank all the gods, but they're still there, and they pass that worldview on to some -- though by no means all -- of their offspring and neighbors.
what's really unfortunate is that their extreme stance enables the less overt racism one finds throughout the usa (despite what you'll read in the posts that'll soon appear proclaiming the south to be the sphere of racial progress and tolerance while the north is the bastion of insidious racism.)
anyway, perigee, you blew it with this post. given the chance, we liberals would much rather talk about how an issue is talked about instead of talking about the issue itself and how it might be addressed. the wording of your post very much enables that sort of liberal toothpicking. hence, this thread will soon dissolve into arguments about north vs. south, language, how liberals are actually the most vile racists on the planet (note that a liberal will put forth this argument), etc. poor emmet till won't even get a moment of silence.
.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:27 PM on June 26, 2006
FWIW, Perigee, the article on your blog about "drag-queen" foetuses is completely moronic too. You paint the research as some kind of conserverative plot to cure homosexuality. Actually it is presenting evidence that homosexuality may be linked to foetal development. This is in opposition to a common conservative stance that homosexuality is a psychological illness you get if you're "brought up wrong". I understand you're trying to be funny, but you come off as plain confused.
And the headline 'Do you have older brothers? Chances are you're gay'. Just wrong. Not what they said at all.
posted by beniamino at 12:31 PM on June 26, 2006
And the headline 'Do you have older brothers? Chances are you're gay'. Just wrong. Not what they said at all.
posted by beniamino at 12:31 PM on June 26, 2006
This is certainly not the 'best of the net'. Well, it COULD have been good - if it a) hadn't already been presented before and b) wasn't presented in such an insipid manner.
I've posted some FPP's before that probably had no business being there, but when the presentation is offensive, regardless of content (which was never researched in the archives), it should be removed.
Please delete this post. Please.
posted by matty at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2006
I've posted some FPP's before that probably had no business being there, but when the presentation is offensive, regardless of content (which was never researched in the archives), it should be removed.
Please delete this post. Please.
posted by matty at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2006
This is pretty much a blazecock pileon, right here.
Hey, please leave me out of this mess. I'm ashamed for all of you who've participated. Truly.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2006
Hey, please leave me out of this mess. I'm ashamed for all of you who've participated. Truly.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:38 PM on June 26, 2006
ah, the defenders of that famous minority, white men. because, as we all know, black women rule the world, really.
no, poor white southerners rule the world. (see where I'm going here..)
posted by jonmc at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2006
no, poor white southerners rule the world. (see where I'm going here..)
posted by jonmc at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2006
jonmc, why did you have to start your response with "um,no."? It's very condescending.
I fully agree with you - racism is not a strictly southern issue. However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North. I know it stings, but it's true.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2006
I fully agree with you - racism is not a strictly southern issue. However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North. I know it stings, but it's true.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 12:41 PM on June 26, 2006
Waitaminute .... I followed this link in the post Any bets he's not no N-word no more, down in the lan' O cotton?
The DA in Mississippi is a black woman, who laments the fact that it's difficult because the people involved in the murder are mostly dead already.
So why "Any bets he's not no N-word no more"? The South wouldn't look as racist if you didn't make it look as if there's a continuing coverup?
posted by adzuki at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2006
The DA in Mississippi is a black woman, who laments the fact that it's difficult because the people involved in the murder are mostly dead already.
So why "Any bets he's not no N-word no more"? The South wouldn't look as racist if you didn't make it look as if there's a continuing coverup?
posted by adzuki at 12:42 PM on June 26, 2006
Of course had he whistled at a white woman today he may of ended up on this sweaty scrotum of a blog : hollabacknyc. Of course despite our achievements we shouldn't rest in our fight against stuff.
posted by econous at 12:47 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by econous at 12:47 PM on June 26, 2006
Not only is it obnoxious, it's downright inaccurate. The poster writes:
"The self-confessed murderers were declared not guilty by a jury of their toothless redneck peers, and apart from a song by Bob Dylan, that was it for Emmett Till."
Anyone who sees the repercussions of the Till murder ending with a Bob Dylan song is an idiot. Till's murder was a major galvanizing event in the civil rights struggle.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2006
"The self-confessed murderers were declared not guilty by a jury of their toothless redneck peers, and apart from a song by Bob Dylan, that was it for Emmett Till."
Anyone who sees the repercussions of the Till murder ending with a Bob Dylan song is an idiot. Till's murder was a major galvanizing event in the civil rights struggle.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:48 PM on June 26, 2006
Wow, I hate to say it, but without even having read the articles, I was able to tell immediately that the racist who posted this thread is a Northerner. (Yes, I see the irony in that statement.)
posted by oaf at 12:50 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by oaf at 12:50 PM on June 26, 2006
Perigee: As noted above, my objection is to the weirdly inconsistent language. The rest of your post is trying to get a rise out of the reader, but then you skirt the issue by using "N-word" in place of "nigger." Say what you mean.
posted by beerbajay at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by beerbajay at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2006
I guess I don't mean racist. I mean full of himself, and confident in his nonexistent superiority.
posted by oaf at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by oaf at 12:51 PM on June 26, 2006
OK, and before I read the rest of the thread, allow me to point out that the most racially segregated school systems and cities in the U.S. are in the North.
posted by oaf at 12:52 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by oaf at 12:52 PM on June 26, 2006
There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North.
More open, admitted racists.
I know it stings, but it's true.
Why would it sting me? I live in the Yankeest of Yankee cities.
posted by jonmc at 12:55 PM on June 26, 2006
More open, admitted racists.
I know it stings, but it's true.
Why would it sting me? I live in the Yankeest of Yankee cities.
posted by jonmc at 12:55 PM on June 26, 2006
I've lived a lot of my life in Mississippi, with most of my family from and still there, and this whole time I had no idea I was such an ignorant, narrow-minded, insufferable prick. Thanks, pal.
So we just got the internet down here in the lan' O cotton (?) so I'm going to go see if I can't find a website about Jesus or pick-up trucks or something.
Bubba out.
posted by gordie at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2006
So we just got the internet down here in the lan' O cotton (?) so I'm going to go see if I can't find a website about Jesus or pick-up trucks or something.
Bubba out.
posted by gordie at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2006
Baby_Balrog, would you care to point to some empirical evidence that supports your assertion?
posted by lemoncello at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by lemoncello at 12:57 PM on June 26, 2006
This is the most overtly bigoted post I've ever read here. Perigee, if you don't realize that, I feel deeply sorry for you.
posted by re6smith at 12:58 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by re6smith at 12:58 PM on June 26, 2006
what's really unfortunate is that their extreme stance enables the less overt racism one finds throughout the usa (despite what you'll read in the posts that'll soon appear proclaiming the south to be the sphere of racial progress and tolerance while the north is the bastion of insidious racism.)
You're discounting the possibility that such posts are correct. In fact, they are correct.
I fully agree with you - racism is not a strictly southern issue. However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North. I know it stings, but it's true.
I know it stings, but you're wrong.
posted by oaf at 12:58 PM on June 26, 2006
You're discounting the possibility that such posts are correct. In fact, they are correct.
I fully agree with you - racism is not a strictly southern issue. However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North. I know it stings, but it's true.
I know it stings, but you're wrong.
posted by oaf at 12:58 PM on June 26, 2006
lemoncello, I already have. Please read the thread before knee-jerking.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:02 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:02 PM on June 26, 2006
The N Word? Isn't that on Showtime?
posted by klangklangston at 1:03 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 1:03 PM on June 26, 2006
...and I just realized that you probably don't have an AJPS subscription. I apologize.
Please hold while I search for the full text.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:03 PM on June 26, 2006
Please hold while I search for the full text.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:03 PM on June 26, 2006
The N Word? Isn't that on Showtime?
I thought it was the nighttime version of Noggin.
posted by oaf at 1:04 PM on June 26, 2006
I thought it was the nighttime version of Noggin.
posted by oaf at 1:04 PM on June 26, 2006
“Many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.” — William James
posted by spock at 1:04 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by spock at 1:04 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
C'mon, everyone, there's nothing wrong with this post. Racial stereotypes are ignorant and unacceptable, unless of course they are directed at white people, as Matteo so rightly points out above.
Matteo, could you please post another one of those early-20th century lynching photos to drive this point home?
posted by banishedimmortal at 1:10 PM on June 26, 2006
Matteo, could you please post another one of those early-20th century lynching photos to drive this point home?
posted by banishedimmortal at 1:10 PM on June 26, 2006
perigee, I'm not sure anyone pointed out the fact that you spelled his fucking name wrong as well.
Last comment. Please. I hope. Emmett deserves a lot better than this.
(And while perigee's lame editorializing and baiting is annoying, so is the tendency of (I can only assume) white posters to show how radical they are by dropping n-bombs. We get it--you guys are too cool for school. But it's offensive as hell and you should know better. In fact, you do know better but somehow you think you earn points for that shit. You don't. Please leave the computer and go out in public and act like a human being now.)
posted by bardic at 1:10 PM on June 26, 2006
Last comment. Please. I hope. Emmett deserves a lot better than this.
(And while perigee's lame editorializing and baiting is annoying, so is the tendency of (I can only assume) white posters to show how radical they are by dropping n-bombs. We get it--you guys are too cool for school. But it's offensive as hell and you should know better. In fact, you do know better but somehow you think you earn points for that shit. You don't. Please leave the computer and go out in public and act like a human being now.)
posted by bardic at 1:10 PM on June 26, 2006
How is politely asking for evidence (which I'm sorry I missed) knee-jerking?
posted by lemoncello at 1:13 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by lemoncello at 1:13 PM on June 26, 2006
How is politely asking for evidence (which I'm sorry I missed) knee-jerking?
Because it's saying that white people might be something other than racist.
posted by oaf at 1:14 PM on June 26, 2006
Because it's saying that white people might be something other than racist.
posted by oaf at 1:14 PM on June 26, 2006
so is the tendency of (I can only assume) white posters
why assume? Black people are on the internet, too, I'm told. And the issue isn't really with his use or non-use of the 'n-word.' It's with the hypocrisy of not using that word and then trotting out 'toothless redneck' and 'lan' o' cotton.'
posted by jonmc at 1:16 PM on June 26, 2006
why assume? Black people are on the internet, too, I'm told. And the issue isn't really with his use or non-use of the 'n-word.' It's with the hypocrisy of not using that word and then trotting out 'toothless redneck' and 'lan' o' cotton.'
posted by jonmc at 1:16 PM on June 26, 2006
I grew up in the Mississippi Delta region, and was never really exposed to Northerners until I went to college and graduate/professional school. Because I hadn't met many Northerners, I naively bought into the view that the South was the hotbed of racism and the North was the tolerant half of the country.
Then in college I did a Congressional internship in Washington, D.C., and was exposed to highly educated Northerners who were more openly racist that anyone I had ever met in the South. (I was in a dorm at Gallaudet with a group of Cornell students, interning for the Department of Labor, who openly called blacks "melons.") And in law school I met Northerners whose open racism --- including use of the word "nigger" --- shocked me. I've had a lot of these experiences. My tentative conclusion was that Northerners don't have the collective shame that hangs over Southerners, so Northerners tend to be more open about their racism.
Anyway, those experiences disabused me of the idea that Southerners are more racist than Northerners. Racism appears to be equally prevalent in both regions.
posted by jayder at 1:18 PM on June 26, 2006
Then in college I did a Congressional internship in Washington, D.C., and was exposed to highly educated Northerners who were more openly racist that anyone I had ever met in the South. (I was in a dorm at Gallaudet with a group of Cornell students, interning for the Department of Labor, who openly called blacks "melons.") And in law school I met Northerners whose open racism --- including use of the word "nigger" --- shocked me. I've had a lot of these experiences. My tentative conclusion was that Northerners don't have the collective shame that hangs over Southerners, so Northerners tend to be more open about their racism.
Anyway, those experiences disabused me of the idea that Southerners are more racist than Northerners. Racism appears to be equally prevalent in both regions.
posted by jayder at 1:18 PM on June 26, 2006
Seriously bardic, thanks for showing you're now cooler than all us other cool posters by deriding us for calling out perigrees hypocrisy.
posted by puke & cry at 1:19 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by puke & cry at 1:19 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
"Black people are on the internet, too, I'm told."
Just three: Delmoi here, Cornell West on Fark and Alan Keyes on Something Awful.
posted by klangklangston at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2006
Just three: Delmoi here, Cornell West on Fark and Alan Keyes on Something Awful.
posted by klangklangston at 1:20 PM on June 26, 2006
Why would it sting me? I live in the Yankeest of Yankee cities.
Holy shit, Jonmc moved to Boston!
posted by LarryC at 1:21 PM on June 26, 2006
Holy shit, Jonmc moved to Boston!
posted by LarryC at 1:21 PM on June 26, 2006
Luckily, the opinion of any one black person counts as binding for all of them, so our relative paucity isn't a detriment.
posted by klangklangston at 1:21 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 1:21 PM on June 26, 2006
racism is not a strictly southern issue. However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North. I know it stings, but it's true.
posted by Baby_Balrog
Wow, what simple minded drivel. As someone pointed out, maybe more openly racist, maybe louder than a northern racist, poorer, sure, but more prevalent? Hardly. Morgan Freeman himself said racism was more insidious in new york than mississippi, where he lives. He can't get a cab in nyc, and he's Morgan freakin' Freeman.
We're never going to have a sorely-needed Civil War II without anti-inbred rhetoric. Keep your liberal guilt to yourselves,
posted by Mayor Curley
Everytime you post racist accusations against the south, which you do on every southern thread, I remember you're from boston. I get a kick out of that.
It must kill you to be from a city with as much a history of racism as the south.
posted by justgary at 1:24 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog
Wow, what simple minded drivel. As someone pointed out, maybe more openly racist, maybe louder than a northern racist, poorer, sure, but more prevalent? Hardly. Morgan Freeman himself said racism was more insidious in new york than mississippi, where he lives. He can't get a cab in nyc, and he's Morgan freakin' Freeman.
We're never going to have a sorely-needed Civil War II without anti-inbred rhetoric. Keep your liberal guilt to yourselves,
posted by Mayor Curley
Everytime you post racist accusations against the south, which you do on every southern thread, I remember you're from boston. I get a kick out of that.
It must kill you to be from a city with as much a history of racism as the south.
posted by justgary at 1:24 PM on June 26, 2006
Baby_Balrog: However, racism is more prevalent in the South. There are more racists in the South, on average, than there are in the North. If you live in the South, you are more likely to be a racist than if you live in the North.
I, too, would like to see some numbers to support your claims. I've lived most of my life in the south. Most southerners who are racists have to know you quite a long time before they'll admit to being such. However, during the brief time I lived in Philadelphia, racists in bars and at bus stop felt free to share their views with me, assuming, because of the color of my skin, that I would be in agreement with them.
posted by wheat at 1:25 PM on June 26, 2006
I, too, would like to see some numbers to support your claims. I've lived most of my life in the south. Most southerners who are racists have to know you quite a long time before they'll admit to being such. However, during the brief time I lived in Philadelphia, racists in bars and at bus stop felt free to share their views with me, assuming, because of the color of my skin, that I would be in agreement with them.
posted by wheat at 1:25 PM on June 26, 2006
So we just got the internet down here in the lan' O cotton (?)
Makes sense to me. LANs of cotton wouldn't work very well. Y'all should try LANs O' copper, or LANs O' fiber.
The South is going to be a really interesting place over the next couple decades as more and more of the people who were brought up under segregation have mixed-race grandkids (who would be, under the rules of their childhood, plain and simple niggers).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:28 PM on June 26, 2006
Makes sense to me. LANs of cotton wouldn't work very well. Y'all should try LANs O' copper, or LANs O' fiber.
The South is going to be a really interesting place over the next couple decades as more and more of the people who were brought up under segregation have mixed-race grandkids (who would be, under the rules of their childhood, plain and simple niggers).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:28 PM on June 26, 2006
It must kill you to be from a city with as much a history of racism as the south.
But it was only poor Bostonians that caused racial problems! Wealthy Bostonians are pillars of anti-racism despite living in segregated neighborhoods, not knowing any black people and having the most influence in the political and economic systems that keep the whole stupid dance going.
posted by jonmc at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2006
But it was only poor Bostonians that caused racial problems! Wealthy Bostonians are pillars of anti-racism despite living in segregated neighborhoods, not knowing any black people and having the most influence in the political and economic systems that keep the whole stupid dance going.
posted by jonmc at 1:29 PM on June 26, 2006
1. Someone in a rural area or a small town is more likely to be a racist than his urban counterpart.
2. Someone whose socio-economic level can be classified as lower-middle class or below is more likely to be a racist than someone who is considered middle-class or upper-middle class.
3. Someone with only a high school education, or someone with less than a high school education, is more likely to be a racist than someone with a college education.
4. Someone over the age of 50 is more likely to be a racist than someone under the age of 30.
If I go by the anecdotal evidence I've gathered with my own eyes and ears, these statements are far more true-and more easily supported- than the statement that Southerners are more racist than Northerners. That doesn't mean that I would ever consider stating them as simple, unassailable facts outside of this specific context. At most, I would consider them starting points for a carefully considered discussion about racism, education, and class. As a life-long Southerner, I no longer get angry about the smug assertions of how racist we are all down here, but I do tend to think a bit less of the people who make those assertions. It's the mark of a lazy thinker.
And yeah, this post is just plain awful. It's an incredible disservice to this important, moving story.
posted by cilantro at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2006
2. Someone whose socio-economic level can be classified as lower-middle class or below is more likely to be a racist than someone who is considered middle-class or upper-middle class.
3. Someone with only a high school education, or someone with less than a high school education, is more likely to be a racist than someone with a college education.
4. Someone over the age of 50 is more likely to be a racist than someone under the age of 30.
If I go by the anecdotal evidence I've gathered with my own eyes and ears, these statements are far more true-and more easily supported- than the statement that Southerners are more racist than Northerners. That doesn't mean that I would ever consider stating them as simple, unassailable facts outside of this specific context. At most, I would consider them starting points for a carefully considered discussion about racism, education, and class. As a life-long Southerner, I no longer get angry about the smug assertions of how racist we are all down here, but I do tend to think a bit less of the people who make those assertions. It's the mark of a lazy thinker.
And yeah, this post is just plain awful. It's an incredible disservice to this important, moving story.
posted by cilantro at 1:30 PM on June 26, 2006
2. Someone whose socio-economic level can be classified as lower-middle class or below is more likely to be a racist than someone who is considered middle-class or upper-middle class.
Yes, but if we accept the premise that racism=bigotry + power, than it would seem unfair to scapegoat relatively powerless citizens for what is an institutional problem.
The same Bob Dylan who wrote about Emmit Till also wrote this song. Sounds like he can handle complexity better than many here.
posted by jonmc at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2006
Yes, but if we accept the premise that racism=bigotry + power, than it would seem unfair to scapegoat relatively powerless citizens for what is an institutional problem.
The same Bob Dylan who wrote about Emmit Till also wrote this song. Sounds like he can handle complexity better than many here.
posted by jonmc at 1:33 PM on June 26, 2006
I think Jayder's comment is fascinating. I've lived in the north, and gone to northern liberal arts schools, My whole life, and have never been further south than Maryland, and I have never in my life encountered anything like that story. All of my experiences with racism, due no doubt to how little I've traveled, have consisted of one of the following:
1. middle-upper class kids with a heavy guilt of privilege complex accusing each other of racism every time one of them says they don't like hip hop.
2. Straight up violent racists who are invariably, in my personal anecdotal experience, poor and poorly educated.
Now, the only real outspoken racists I've ever met were all people I met when I attended school in upstate new york, and they were all local folk, and the overwhelming majority of them were cops. A couple of them claimed (though they may have been bullshitting the college kids) to have a kkk chapter in town.
this is rambling, let me sum up. I'd like to think that these anecdotes will contribute to the notion that the nature and variety of racism and who is racist is nothing if not diverse and indefinable. You cannot rely on anecdotes, even personal experience, to tell you who will or will not be racist. If I went solely on my own personal experience, I'd say that it's 100% surety that all racists were poor, poorly educated, and likely officers. Obviously, jayder demonstrates more than adequately that that's simply not true.
also, anyone who thinks new yorkers are less likely to tolerate racism, I have two words for you. Rudy. Giuliani.
posted by shmegegge at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2006
1. middle-upper class kids with a heavy guilt of privilege complex accusing each other of racism every time one of them says they don't like hip hop.
2. Straight up violent racists who are invariably, in my personal anecdotal experience, poor and poorly educated.
Now, the only real outspoken racists I've ever met were all people I met when I attended school in upstate new york, and they were all local folk, and the overwhelming majority of them were cops. A couple of them claimed (though they may have been bullshitting the college kids) to have a kkk chapter in town.
this is rambling, let me sum up. I'd like to think that these anecdotes will contribute to the notion that the nature and variety of racism and who is racist is nothing if not diverse and indefinable. You cannot rely on anecdotes, even personal experience, to tell you who will or will not be racist. If I went solely on my own personal experience, I'd say that it's 100% surety that all racists were poor, poorly educated, and likely officers. Obviously, jayder demonstrates more than adequately that that's simply not true.
also, anyone who thinks new yorkers are less likely to tolerate racism, I have two words for you. Rudy. Giuliani.
posted by shmegegge at 1:34 PM on June 26, 2006
Racism in New York is a different, though equally offensive beast. If a black man was dragged behind a truck in New York instead of Texas, there'd be a white guy behind a truck the next day, and open racial hatred on the streets for months afterward. Plus, the city's political system thrives on race-baiting and racial patronage and resentment from all sides. To be fair to my beloved New York, it is by no means unique in this regard. (see Boston, Chicago, Baltimore, DC, etc).
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on June 26, 2006
I was raised in a segregated South where people did not use the n word because it was considered vulgar and reflecting an uneducated background. This still meant that my black playmate could not go to the pool with me. Coming to college at Amherst Mass I was stunned to find people from Boston (South ironically) using the n with a vitriol that any clansman would have admired. I was also one of the 1st kids bussed in the US. I was stomped by gangs of black kids at my new school, I thought because I was white. When I went into the service it became clear that society was delineated along economic lines. This was proved later when I read an article from a classmate from high school who was black. He said he had been stomped at school because he was from the wrong neighborhood. He had wanted to go to the school his brothers had gone to & I totally identified. My brother who went to the same school as I married a North Vietnamese woman and I live in the reputed lesbian capital of the US. The one thing that never did change was the economic division of class. Money is virtue in the US.
posted by Rancid Badger at 1:41 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Rancid Badger at 1:41 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
The self-confessed murderers were declared not guilty by a jury of their toothless redneck peers, and apart from a song by Bob Dylan, that was it for Emmett Till.
While the Southerners beat down Perigee for the ignorance and slander, I want to go after this statement, because it's utterly, totally wrong.
Emmett Till's mother demanded an open casket funeral so that the world could see what the thugs had done to her son. The photo of his badly beaten face ran on the cover of new magazine aimed at the growing black middle class, Ebony.
The event galvanized black America, and by the fall of 1955 black action groups in the South were encouraged enough to start agitating for change. On December 1st, Rosa Parks got on the bus. If it weren't for Emmett Till, there's a possibility that the SCLC and NAACP wouldn't have been successful with making the Montgomery Bus Boycott a national event, because the support among working and middle class blacks may not have been there.
And the return to the Emmett Till case isn't about him being forgotten to history, but more about Southern guilt and trying to right the wrongs of Civil Rights Era. Remember, this is on the heels of the successful prosecution of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church bomber and the conviction of one of the people involved with the Mississippi civil rights worker murders. Eventually, someone was going to come back to Emmett Till.
posted by dw at 1:48 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
While the Southerners beat down Perigee for the ignorance and slander, I want to go after this statement, because it's utterly, totally wrong.
Emmett Till's mother demanded an open casket funeral so that the world could see what the thugs had done to her son. The photo of his badly beaten face ran on the cover of new magazine aimed at the growing black middle class, Ebony.
The event galvanized black America, and by the fall of 1955 black action groups in the South were encouraged enough to start agitating for change. On December 1st, Rosa Parks got on the bus. If it weren't for Emmett Till, there's a possibility that the SCLC and NAACP wouldn't have been successful with making the Montgomery Bus Boycott a national event, because the support among working and middle class blacks may not have been there.
And the return to the Emmett Till case isn't about him being forgotten to history, but more about Southern guilt and trying to right the wrongs of Civil Rights Era. Remember, this is on the heels of the successful prosecution of the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church bomber and the conviction of one of the people involved with the Mississippi civil rights worker murders. Eventually, someone was going to come back to Emmett Till.
posted by dw at 1:48 PM on June 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
now, that's how the fpp should have been made. you know, with a more inside like that or something.
posted by shmegegge at 1:50 PM on June 26, 2006
posted by shmegegge at 1:50 PM on June 26, 2006
Everytime you post racist accusations against the south, which you do on every southern thread, I remember you're from boston. I get a kick out of that.
It must kill you to be from a city with as much a history of racism as the south.
Yeah justgary, you should see the folks lined up to spit on William Lloyd Garrison's grave. And it's funny, but there are only four states with no record of a lynching in their history. They're all in New England. And Massachusetts is one of them. But yeah, the 1972 bussing riot was totally worse than the whole history of southern slavery.
And point of information-- I'm originally from Maine, the state that gave the highest percentage of its sons to good side of the Civil War. And on some level they died in vain because Deliverance Nation apologists like yourself weren't eradicated when we had the chance.
It must kill you to be from a city with as much a history of racism as the south.
Yeah justgary, you should see the folks lined up to spit on William Lloyd Garrison's grave. And it's funny, but there are only four states with no record of a lynching in their history. They're all in New England. And Massachusetts is one of them. But yeah, the 1972 bussing riot was totally worse than the whole history of southern slavery.
And point of information-- I'm originally from Maine, the state that gave the highest percentage of its sons to good side of the Civil War. And on some level they died in vain because Deliverance Nation apologists like yourself weren't eradicated when we had the chance.
This war differs from other wars in this particular: We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make young and old, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war.posted by Mayor Curley at 1:55 PM on June 26, 2006
--General William Tecumseh Sherman
Hmmmmm....strange...were the racists that beat Rodney King toothless? Is that how you recognize racists, by their accents and lack of teeth?
Should be pretty easy to get rid of them, then. Just round up anyone with a southern accent and take them to re-education camps.
posted by nyxxxx at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2006
Should be pretty easy to get rid of them, then. Just round up anyone with a southern accent and take them to re-education camps.
posted by nyxxxx at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2006
Wow, I hate to say it, but without even having read the articles, I was able to tell immediately that the racist who posted this thread is a Northerner. (Yes, I see the irony in that statement.)
Judging from the number of times the word "Northerner" has been used in this thread, it seems pretty much everyone is.
The proper term to describe those who hail from above the Mason Dixon line, my Northerner friends, is YANKEE.
posted by three blind mice at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2006
Judging from the number of times the word "Northerner" has been used in this thread, it seems pretty much everyone is.
The proper term to describe those who hail from above the Mason Dixon line, my Northerner friends, is YANKEE.
posted by three blind mice at 1:57 PM on June 26, 2006
« Older Jews and The Russian Revolution | Learning can be fun. Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
There are all kinds of racism, all of them ignorant and ugly.
posted by LarryC at 11:40 AM on June 26, 2006