September 11, 2006
September 11, 2006 5:33 AM Subscribe
On this day, five years ago, the times changed. In honor of all who perished, just leave a period in the comments, and reflect on that day to yourselves.
This post was deleted for the following reason: somehow I missed this thread this morning. ugh.
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posted by wheelieman at 5:39 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by wheelieman at 5:39 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't think you have the authority to make that stipulation
posted by rxrfrx at 5:43 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by rxrfrx at 5:43 AM on September 11, 2006
I dont want to snark on this thread, however, I dont think you or anyone else should be dictating to anyone what to do or think.
On preview, what rxrfrx said.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 5:45 AM on September 11, 2006
On preview, what rxrfrx said.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 5:45 AM on September 11, 2006
Single dot posts have always irked me, because they seem so lazy. I always figured that if one is moved by a death or event, it's much better to put your thoughts into words. "Moments of silence" don't mean much on the internet.
posted by blue mustard at 5:48 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by blue mustard at 5:48 AM on September 11, 2006
If you really had to post this, you should have posted it on MeTa.
posted by MrMustard at 5:49 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by MrMustard at 5:49 AM on September 11, 2006
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posted by hollygoheavy at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by hollygoheavy at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
Well it was worth a try, you may delete this Mattamyn.
posted by wheelieman at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by wheelieman at 5:51 AM on September 11, 2006
Well it was worth a try
A link to a previous Metafilter thread as your only contribution? You call that a try?
posted by mediareport at 5:58 AM on September 11, 2006
A link to a previous Metafilter thread as your only contribution? You call that a try?
posted by mediareport at 5:58 AM on September 11, 2006
Did you really think no one was going to actually comment?
posted by stinkycheese at 6:00 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 6:00 AM on September 11, 2006
It was horrid but I think we, as a nation, would do a lot better not dwelling on it and treating it like a fucking Holiday.
In a couple of years I wouldn't be surprised if we saw twin tower shaped strings of memorial lights (maybe every alternate light would be an airliner?)
posted by Mick at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006
In a couple of years I wouldn't be surprised if we saw twin tower shaped strings of memorial lights (maybe every alternate light would be an airliner?)
posted by Mick at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006
I disagree with re-evocation of painful moments for the shake of re-evocation. It doesn't help understanding the moment, it doesn't help healing the scars, it is just a trip for people who like pain, people who like to feel again the hate, people who live in the past.
Yet there is some people who is mourning their deads in 9/11 , to these I suggest : leave it, let it go, try giving up commemoration every year. I promise there is no way you will ever forget your loved ones, but I am 99.9999% sure they wouldn't like you to feel again and again and again the pain of separation, the desperation of these moments.
Let your loved ones in peace so that you too can have some peace of mind.
posted by elpapacito at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yet there is some people who is mourning their deads in 9/11 , to these I suggest : leave it, let it go, try giving up commemoration every year. I promise there is no way you will ever forget your loved ones, but I am 99.9999% sure they wouldn't like you to feel again and again and again the pain of separation, the desperation of these moments.
Let your loved ones in peace so that you too can have some peace of mind.
posted by elpapacito at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
.
That's for those innocents who died on 9/11 - was a really shit day for america.
....................................................................................................................................................................................................
That's for those innocents who have died since 9/11 thanks to Americas godawful war on "islamofascists". It's been a shit 5 years for the rest of the world.
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That's for the death of this thread
posted by twistedonion at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
That's for those innocents who died on 9/11 - was a really shit day for america.
....................................................................................................................................................................................................
That's for those innocents who have died since 9/11 thanks to Americas godawful war on "islamofascists". It's been a shit 5 years for the rest of the world.
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That's for the death of this thread
posted by twistedonion at 6:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
How about a link back to the original event as experienced on Metafilter.
posted by zorro astor at 6:03 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by zorro astor at 6:03 AM on September 11, 2006
Can I also give you my paypal password too? How about a backrub or two?
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:04 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:04 AM on September 11, 2006
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posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:05 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:05 AM on September 11, 2006
I'd argue that the times didn't change. A terrible event happened, but the world didn't change. We just became aware of the fact that we were all living in it.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
How about a link back to the original event as experienced on Metafilter.
Wow, did you even read the post? I'm sorry, but do you people really think you're "honoring" the events of that day by being this lazy?
posted by mediareport at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Wow, did you even read the post? I'm sorry, but do you people really think you're "honoring" the events of that day by being this lazy?
posted by mediareport at 6:06 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Don't be sad for the people who died in the attacks. They're in heaven with Jesus now.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:09 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:09 AM on September 11, 2006
It's not a moment of silence, it's punctuation. If you truly wanted to "reflect on that day to yourselves" you would have reflected on that day to yourself, not start a regimented thread and expect everyone to follow.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 6:10 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 6:10 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
mediareport: watch out dude don't feed the indignation machine
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 6:10 AM on September 11, 2006
elpapacito: Bring it on. The post breaks the site's most basic guideline. It won't last long.
posted by mediareport at 6:11 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by mediareport at 6:11 AM on September 11, 2006
Who died and left Mr. Wheelieman the official commemorator of public events the ubiquitous memorialization of which has long ago rendered them as bland as "Hello Kitty," and given new meaning to the phrase "banality of evil"? (Those little periods that you leave in posts about someone dying? That's your brain. Actual size.)
posted by Faze at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Faze at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
If you're not with the poster, you're against him!
posted by clevershark at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by clevershark at 6:15 AM on September 11, 2006
Isn't the place for posts which only link to the blue the grey?
posted by public at 6:16 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by public at 6:16 AM on September 11, 2006
Dot-posts are the intellectual equivalent of "Support the Troops" trunk magnets.
posted by rzklkng at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by rzklkng at 6:17 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
Dot-posts are the intellectual equivalent of "Support the Troops" trunk magnets.
That's because it's a memorial post, not an opportunity to show everybody what a bright little boy you are.
posted by jonmc at 6:20 AM on September 11, 2006
That's because it's a memorial post, not an opportunity to show everybody what a bright little boy you are.
posted by jonmc at 6:20 AM on September 11, 2006
Did we do this for the Katrina anniversary, too? Because that was the one that really should have changed everything.
posted by muckster at 6:20 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by muckster at 6:20 AM on September 11, 2006
In honor of this thread's short projected lifespan, just leave a semicolon in the comments, and reflect on it to yourselves.
;
posted by signal at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
;
posted by signal at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
Think of it as a Memorial day for civilian casualties.
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posted by konolia at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
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posted by konolia at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
It was horrid but I think we, as a nation, would do a lot better not dwelling on it and treating it like a fucking Holiday.
Agreed! The best revenge is living well.
posted by banished at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
Agreed! The best revenge is living well.
posted by banished at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2006
No need to dis the dot. It's the post that's lame. The dot has its place.
posted by mediareport at 6:24 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by mediareport at 6:24 AM on September 11, 2006
9/11 changed everything.
Except Metafilter's ineffable capacity for snark.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2006
Except Metafilter's ineffable capacity for snark.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2006
DON'T TREAD ON ME.
(Sentiment directed at terrorists, pseudofascist theocratic federal officials and MeFi thread-dictating autocrats, in appropriately proportional measures.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2006
(Sentiment directed at terrorists, pseudofascist theocratic federal officials and MeFi thread-dictating autocrats, in appropriately proportional measures.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:25 AM on September 11, 2006
Except Metafilter's ineffable capacity for snark.
That will never change, thank god.
posted by twistedonion at 6:27 AM on September 11, 2006
That will never change, thank god.
posted by twistedonion at 6:27 AM on September 11, 2006
Stop your bitching and whining for once, assholes. Jeezus.
posted by bim at 6:30 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by bim at 6:30 AM on September 11, 2006
Think of it as a Memorial day for civilian casualties.
Konolia, that's a damn good idea. A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:35 AM on September 11, 2006
Konolia, that's a damn good idea. A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:35 AM on September 11, 2006
Happy 9/11 everybody.
posted by cillit bang at 6:35 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by cillit bang at 6:35 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
I don't think a country currently involved in rapidly adding to the total can hold such a day with a straight face. Or at least, it shouldn't.
posted by bonaldi at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't think a country currently involved in rapidly adding to the total can hold such a day with a straight face. Or at least, it shouldn't.
posted by bonaldi at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2006
BE QUIET
We've been fighting for 5 years. Can you put the snark and the cynicism and the political opportunism aside for 24 hours and just remember how things were before, and how they have been forever changed? To mourn the losses... of our life, and our innocence?
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posted by jammer at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2006
We've been fighting for 5 years. Can you put the snark and the cynicism and the political opportunism aside for 24 hours and just remember how things were before, and how they have been forever changed? To mourn the losses... of our life, and our innocence?
.
posted by jammer at 6:37 AM on September 11, 2006
Innocence? I yi yi!
posted by stinkycheese at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 6:39 AM on September 11, 2006
.
posted by hifiparasol at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by hifiparasol at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2006
*rolls eyes*
posted by randomination at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by randomination at 6:44 AM on September 11, 2006
The 9/11 terrorist attacks were groteqsue and sad. Last night on an NPR special they played an answering machine message from a guy on one of those flights. It was really sad.
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:45 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 6:45 AM on September 11, 2006
Hey, did you guys hear about the planes crashing into the buildings in new york? I hear a bunch of people died or something.
posted by Citizen Premier at 6:46 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Citizen Premier at 6:46 AM on September 11, 2006
We've been fighting for 5 years
I Know, it's a fucking crime. And no, I won't be quiet.
posted by twistedonion at 6:48 AM on September 11, 2006
I Know, it's a fucking crime. And no, I won't be quiet.
posted by twistedonion at 6:48 AM on September 11, 2006
right on twistedonion.
Don't tell me how to mourn. The life of an Iraqi child is no less valuable than the life of NYC fireman or a banker or pentagon officer. We took the death-energy from the terrorists, turned it up to "11" and rocked out.
America, fuck yeah. I'm ashamed of this country, and it's *almost* wiped out my residual grief for my fellow citizens and their loved ones who died on that day.
I'm a New Yorker first, American second. As New Yorker, I don't really think we need all this grieving from all the people who have exploited our tragedy, beginning with our President. Go away, George. You lost nothing, except the world's goodwill.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:48 AM on September 11, 2006
Don't tell me how to mourn. The life of an Iraqi child is no less valuable than the life of NYC fireman or a banker or pentagon officer. We took the death-energy from the terrorists, turned it up to "11" and rocked out.
America, fuck yeah. I'm ashamed of this country, and it's *almost* wiped out my residual grief for my fellow citizens and their loved ones who died on that day.
I'm a New Yorker first, American second. As New Yorker, I don't really think we need all this grieving from all the people who have exploited our tragedy, beginning with our President. Go away, George. You lost nothing, except the world's goodwill.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:48 AM on September 11, 2006
These memorial threads are starting to remind me more and more of the people in the temple that Jesus got all pissed off at for showing off their piety, and prompted him to exhort "If you want to pray, go into your fucking closet and pray, don't go to the temple to show off to everybody else how goddamn pious you are".
Any biblically minded folks know the passage I'm talking about, and if I'm remembering the general gist correctly?
posted by Bugbread at 6:49 AM on September 11, 2006
Any biblically minded folks know the passage I'm talking about, and if I'm remembering the general gist correctly?
posted by Bugbread at 6:49 AM on September 11, 2006
Aw.. I screwed up that hyperlink before..
Happy 9/11!
posted by Balisong at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2006
Happy 9/11!
posted by Balisong at 6:50 AM on September 11, 2006
This thread has gotten out of hand. I feel sorry for the people who died as the result of the behaviour of some narcisstic, deluded fucks; I feel bad for the outrageous actions that have since been carried out in the names of those who died ; I feel bad about the pile of stuff that has gone on in the world since then.
However, there are many atrocities and natural disasters that occur throughout the world. 9/11 isnt any more or less important than any of those. Whilst I feel every sympathy for those who had their lives wrecked by this event I do not think that this event is more important than others. It is just another fucked up event in the history of a fucked up species that has a capacity to do great things and horrible things in equal measure. Far too many people conflate the horrific spectacle of 9/11 with its importance.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2006
However, there are many atrocities and natural disasters that occur throughout the world. 9/11 isnt any more or less important than any of those. Whilst I feel every sympathy for those who had their lives wrecked by this event I do not think that this event is more important than others. It is just another fucked up event in the history of a fucked up species that has a capacity to do great things and horrible things in equal measure. Far too many people conflate the horrific spectacle of 9/11 with its importance.
posted by ClanvidHorse at 6:52 AM on September 11, 2006
Bugbread, that's a good one.
Matthew 6:6
6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
posted by anomie at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Matthew 6:6
6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
posted by anomie at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Number of american civliians killed on September 11, 2001, in the attack. ~3000
Number of documents directly and conclusively linking Sadaam Heussein to Al Queda. 0
Number of american war dead in Iraq ~2669
Number of civilian's killed in Iraq due to the military intervention 41650 to 46530
Amount of money Haliburton has made off of no bid contracts: Over $10 billion dollars
Ring leader / chief architect of 9/11: Osama Bin Laden
Osama's location: Pakistan
US Ally: Pakistan
Number of US troops currently allowed in Pakistan: <1 000 number of us troops in iraq:>100000
.
posted by Mwongozi at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2006 [3 favorites]
Number of documents directly and conclusively linking Sadaam Heussein to Al Queda. 0
Number of american war dead in Iraq ~2669
Number of civilian's killed in Iraq due to the military intervention 41650 to 46530
Amount of money Haliburton has made off of no bid contracts: Over $10 billion dollars
Ring leader / chief architect of 9/11: Osama Bin Laden
Osama's location: Pakistan
US Ally: Pakistan
Number of US troops currently allowed in Pakistan: <1 000 number of us troops in iraq:>100000
.
posted by Mwongozi at 6:53 AM on September 11, 2006 [3 favorites]
bugbread:
Matthew 6:1-8:
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
posted by jonmc at 6:54 AM on September 11, 2006
Matthew 6:1-8:
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
posted by jonmc at 6:54 AM on September 11, 2006
. for the ~180K people killed in the name of freedom in the last 5 years.
posted by jimmythefish at 6:55 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by jimmythefish at 6:55 AM on September 11, 2006
Today is a no-media day for me...after a half hour of radio on the way to work I decided I too was tired of the exploitation of these deaths, and the continued use of them to cause even more deaths.
If you must grieve, do it quietly, and certainly don't tell me how to do it.
posted by HuronBob at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2006
If you must grieve, do it quietly, and certainly don't tell me how to do it.
posted by HuronBob at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2006
You and all the clowns in the media should stop fucking telling me how and when I shoud reflect on that day.
posted by bondcliff at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by bondcliff at 6:57 AM on September 11, 2006
Hey Blazecock, where you find that picture of me? Good resemblance.
posted by twistedonion at 6:58 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by twistedonion at 6:58 AM on September 11, 2006
Bugbread, I think you might be mentally conflating two different instances described in the Bible.
There's this one where Jesus talks about what you described:
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
-Mathew 6:5-7
And this one where he gets really pissed off in the temple:
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
-John 2:13-17
In any case, I think your observation in this instance is pretty valid.
posted by Stauf at 7:01 AM on September 11, 2006
There's this one where Jesus talks about what you described:
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
-Mathew 6:5-7
And this one where he gets really pissed off in the temple:
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
-John 2:13-17
In any case, I think your observation in this instance is pretty valid.
posted by Stauf at 7:01 AM on September 11, 2006
Hey welcome to the United States of 9/11. I call bullshit on the whole phony somber thing. No more fucking cellos playing dirges while well-groomed multicultural ladies mournfully chant the names of victims in order to make us feel good about every horror we have perpetrated in the names of those 3000 unfortunates since Sept. 11, 2001.
posted by Mister_A at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Mister_A at 7:03 AM on September 11, 2006
Why not de-snark this thread by talking about our favorite War-On-Terror-related MeFi threads? Let's make this our very own five-year-anniversary clip show! I'll start with this and that.
posted by Herr Fahrstuhl at 7:05 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Herr Fahrstuhl at 7:05 AM on September 11, 2006
whatever. No love. No honor.
I thought the CNN re-live coverage was a bad idea. But tune in for 30 seconds and you're day will change - it messed me up.
posted by tomplus2 at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2006
I thought the CNN re-live coverage was a bad idea. But tune in for 30 seconds and you're day will change - it messed me up.
posted by tomplus2 at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2006
anomie, jonmc, thanks, that's exactly what I was thinking of.
Stauf: Thanks. I wasn't thinking of the casting-out-of-the-moneychangers, but my "Angry Jesus" phrasing may have given that impression.
posted by Bugbread at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2006
Stauf: Thanks. I wasn't thinking of the casting-out-of-the-moneychangers, but my "Angry Jesus" phrasing may have given that impression.
posted by Bugbread at 7:08 AM on September 11, 2006
.
posted by pax digita at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by pax digita at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2006
You know, I was doing a slow boil during much of this thread because of all the snark and cheap jokes, but then I realized that it's the crimes perpetrated by Bush & Co, in the name of 9/11 that have made such trivialization of a horrendous event possible. So, while I'm still a bit irked, I'll point my anger where it belongs.
posted by jonmc at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by jonmc at 7:09 AM on September 11, 2006
. for the ~180K people killed in the name of freedom in the last 5 years.
.
posted by amberglow at 7:10 AM on September 11, 2006
.
posted by amberglow at 7:10 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by flapjax at midnite: A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
posted by bonaldi: I don't think a country currently involved in rapidly adding to the total can hold such a day with a straight face. Or at least, it shouldn't.
Well, as long as we're talking theoretical observances, let me elaborate: what I have in mind is not a day that this country, or any country, would hold. This would be a international people's day of remembrance. Those individuals around the world who wish to remember and honor those unfortunate dead could do so, with a "straight face". This would be a day where we reflect upon the horrors that can spring from nationalism, from xenophobia, from the very notion of "country".
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:12 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by bonaldi: I don't think a country currently involved in rapidly adding to the total can hold such a day with a straight face. Or at least, it shouldn't.
Well, as long as we're talking theoretical observances, let me elaborate: what I have in mind is not a day that this country, or any country, would hold. This would be a international people's day of remembrance. Those individuals around the world who wish to remember and honor those unfortunate dead could do so, with a "straight face". This would be a day where we reflect upon the horrors that can spring from nationalism, from xenophobia, from the very notion of "country".
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:12 AM on September 11, 2006
Mourning the people killed on 9/11 without mention of those killed subsequently by military action or natural distaster is not necessarily any insult to the latter. We feel bad when we lose things we know and understand; that's humanity.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:12 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:12 AM on September 11, 2006
Jonmc, I'd add that, even if it Bush & Co hadn't perpetrated any crimes, the trivialization would still be possible due to the media's use of 9/11 as a ratings-puller.
posted by Bugbread at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Bugbread at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2006
You know, I was doing a slow boil during much of this thread because of all the snark and cheap jokes, but then I realized that it's the crimes perpetrated by Bush & Co, in the name of 9/11 that have made such trivialization of a horrendous event possible. So, while I'm still a bit irked, I'll point my anger where it belongs.
Yeah!
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2006
Yeah!
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:13 AM on September 11, 2006
bob sarabia I think that's the greatest thing I've ever seen.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2006
Exactly jonmc. 9/11 was horrific, never should have happened. The real criminals who were behind 9/11 are getting away with it, while 10s of thousands of innocents are slaughtered in an illegal war.
So I won't be remembering 9/11 today. I'll be mourning the 100's of civilians who will die today at the hands of Bush, Blair and all the other war criminals responsible for the past 5 horrific years since that one horrific day.
Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some. The truth hurts.
posted by twistedonion at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2006
So I won't be remembering 9/11 today. I'll be mourning the 100's of civilians who will die today at the hands of Bush, Blair and all the other war criminals responsible for the past 5 horrific years since that one horrific day.
Sorry if that doesn't sit well with some. The truth hurts.
posted by twistedonion at 7:14 AM on September 11, 2006
Hey that's a Jack Kirby Captain America in that completely awesome collage!
That's the just about the only good thing about this thread.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 7:16 AM on September 11, 2006
That's the just about the only good thing about this thread.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 7:16 AM on September 11, 2006
In case anyone thinks I have my tinfoil hat on when I talk about "The real criminals who were behind 9/11"... I did mean Osama Bin Laden and the rest of his band of killers.
posted by twistedonion at 7:17 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by twistedonion at 7:17 AM on September 11, 2006
So I won't be remembering 9/11 today. I'll be mourning the 100's of civilians who will die today at the hands of Bush, Blair and all the other war criminals responsible for the past 5 horrific years since that one horrific day.
No reason you can't do both, which is what I'll do at least for a few minutes. I have some personal connections to that day that I couldn't forget if I wanted to. And I'm as disgusted with the war as anyone here and have done what I could to make that displeasure known.
Y'know, I'm getting married a week from Saturday. September is gonna be an odd set of emotions for me for years to come.
posted by jonmc at 7:17 AM on September 11, 2006
No reason you can't do both, which is what I'll do at least for a few minutes. I have some personal connections to that day that I couldn't forget if I wanted to. And I'm as disgusted with the war as anyone here and have done what I could to make that displeasure known.
Y'know, I'm getting married a week from Saturday. September is gonna be an odd set of emotions for me for years to come.
posted by jonmc at 7:17 AM on September 11, 2006
twistedonion, if you're family was killed in a plane crash, would you mourn more for the other 125 people killed or your own family?
posted by tomplus2 at 7:20 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by tomplus2 at 7:20 AM on September 11, 2006
I was wondering all morning how MetaFilter would mark this occasion.
This is about what I expected...good job guys and gals.
posted by rocket88 at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
This is about what I expected...good job guys and gals.
posted by rocket88 at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
Can you put the snark and the cynicism and the political opportunism aside for 24 hours
posted by jammer at 6:37 AM PST
Yea...because I'm sure that is Mr. Bush's plan for his speech tonite.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by jammer at 6:37 AM PST
Yea...because I'm sure that is Mr. Bush's plan for his speech tonite.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
Well it was worth a try
Dictacting to everyone how to memorialize national tragedy was worth a try?
posted by jonson at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
Dictacting to everyone how to memorialize national tragedy was worth a try?
posted by jonson at 7:22 AM on September 11, 2006
I am sorry for your loss (and anyone else who lost someone that day, that much should at least be obvious). People don't deserve to die as a result of egomaniacs.
What irritates me about threads like this is that they seem to reinforce the notion that a westerners blood is worth so much more than some poor bastard from the third world.
9/11 was bad. What has been done in it's name, evil.
posted by twistedonion at 7:23 AM on September 11, 2006
What irritates me about threads like this is that they seem to reinforce the notion that a westerners blood is worth so much more than some poor bastard from the third world.
9/11 was bad. What has been done in it's name, evil.
posted by twistedonion at 7:23 AM on September 11, 2006
What irritates me about threads like this is that they seem to reinforce the notion that a westerners blood is worth so much more than some poor bastard from the third world.
I don't think anybody here thinks that.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:24 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't think anybody here thinks that.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:24 AM on September 11, 2006
I am sorry for your loss
My personal connection (a close friend who was a paramedic for the NYFD at the time) survived. I just remember spending the whole day picturing him at the bottom of a pile of rubble. His unit lost a few men that day. Just for the record.
posted by jonmc at 7:25 AM on September 11, 2006
My personal connection (a close friend who was a paramedic for the NYFD at the time) survived. I just remember spending the whole day picturing him at the bottom of a pile of rubble. His unit lost a few men that day. Just for the record.
posted by jonmc at 7:25 AM on September 11, 2006
.
posted by foxywombat at 7:26 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by foxywombat at 7:26 AM on September 11, 2006
Y'know, I'm getting married a week from Saturday. September is gonna be an odd set of emotions for me for years to come.
In all earnestness, my first anniversary is next saturday, and whatever emotions you have about September 11, September is too wonderful a month for a wedding to lose the whole thing. The emotions will separate very quickly when you wake up on your wedding day and say "this is perfect!" Got my fingers crossed for good weather for you!
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:26 AM on September 11, 2006
In all earnestness, my first anniversary is next saturday, and whatever emotions you have about September 11, September is too wonderful a month for a wedding to lose the whole thing. The emotions will separate very quickly when you wake up on your wedding day and say "this is perfect!" Got my fingers crossed for good weather for you!
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:26 AM on September 11, 2006
twistedonion, if you're family was killed in a plane crash, would you mourn more for the other 125 people killed or your own family?
A plane crash... I'd be mourning my family, no-one else. That would be a horrible accident, not an act of war/terror/whatever.
I paid my respect on 9/11/01
And I pay my respect to anyone killed in an atrocity as soon as I hear about it. However, 9/11 has obviously been hijacked and spun so much it is now meaningless.
Like I said, if you personally suffered a loss 5 years ago then you have my sympathy. I doubt a . will give any meaning to your grief though.
posted by twistedonion at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
A plane crash... I'd be mourning my family, no-one else. That would be a horrible accident, not an act of war/terror/whatever.
I paid my respect on 9/11/01
And I pay my respect to anyone killed in an atrocity as soon as I hear about it. However, 9/11 has obviously been hijacked and spun so much it is now meaningless.
Like I said, if you personally suffered a loss 5 years ago then you have my sympathy. I doubt a . will give any meaning to your grief though.
posted by twistedonion at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
Those individuals around the world who wish to remember and honor those unfortunate dead could do so
But you can't do that with a straight face as an individual either, because far and away the best way to honour them is by trying to stop more of their deaths. And while your country is perpetrating such deaths, anything else is just mocking those you would honour.
posted by bonaldi at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
But you can't do that with a straight face as an individual either, because far and away the best way to honour them is by trying to stop more of their deaths. And while your country is perpetrating such deaths, anything else is just mocking those you would honour.
posted by bonaldi at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
Strangely, this is also the anniversary of Henry Hudson landing on Manhattan Island in 1609.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2006
whatever emotions you have about September 11, September is too wonderful a month for a wedding to lose the whole thing.
Don't worry, I won't.
Got my fingers crossed for good weather for you!
It's in Vegas, so that shouldn't be a problem. and thanks.
posted by jonmc at 7:29 AM on September 11, 2006
Don't worry, I won't.
Got my fingers crossed for good weather for you!
It's in Vegas, so that shouldn't be a problem. and thanks.
posted by jonmc at 7:29 AM on September 11, 2006
It doesn't suprise me the least to see assholes dragging their unrelated politics into a remembrance thread. It doesn't suprise me, but it depresses a little. What vile little shits there are here.
If you want to protest Bush and the Iraqi war, then do a proper protest and keep it out of this thread, because its not the place for unrelated protesting and bitching and moaning and spewing of political grievances. Its off-topic, derailing, and trolling.
It's revolting to see people so self-absorbed in their politics that they can't even recognize when a discussion of their politics is inappropriate.
posted by dios at 7:30 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
If you want to protest Bush and the Iraqi war, then do a proper protest and keep it out of this thread, because its not the place for unrelated protesting and bitching and moaning and spewing of political grievances. Its off-topic, derailing, and trolling.
It's revolting to see people so self-absorbed in their politics that they can't even recognize when a discussion of their politics is inappropriate.
posted by dios at 7:30 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
It was horrid but I think we, as a nation, would do a lot better not dwelling on it and treating it like a fucking Holiday.
Holiday? I have an 11am meeting, bastard.
The collage reminds us all that no matter what happened on 9/11, Dale Earnhardt died for their sins.
I think everyone should just post a 3 instead of a period to remind everyone of that and post their feelings about Dale.
3
posted by dw at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2006
Holiday? I have an 11am meeting, bastard.
The collage reminds us all that no matter what happened on 9/11, Dale Earnhardt died for their sins.
I think everyone should just post a 3 instead of a period to remind everyone of that and post their feelings about Dale.
3
posted by dw at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2006
It doesn't suprise me the least to see assholes dragging their unrelated politics into a remembrance thread.
dios, with all due respect, 9/11 has been manipulated by the Bush administration into justification for the Iraq war, so the politics are hardly 'unrelated,' they're almost inextricably intertwined, sadly.
posted by jonmc at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2006
dios, with all due respect, 9/11 has been manipulated by the Bush administration into justification for the Iraq war, so the politics are hardly 'unrelated,' they're almost inextricably intertwined, sadly.
posted by jonmc at 7:32 AM on September 11, 2006
They're almost inextricably intertwined, sadly.
posted by jonmc at 9:32 AM CST on September 11
Therefore one can never discuss the tragic loss of life on that day without necessarily discussing people'sassholes opinions on the Iraqi war and George W. Bush, despite the fact those opinions are voice ad nauseum every single day here in other threads?
posted by dios at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by jonmc at 9:32 AM CST on September 11
Therefore one can never discuss the tragic loss of life on that day without necessarily discussing people's
posted by dios at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2006
dios... 9/11 isn't about politics?
This thread is "not the place"?
Thanks.....we've been told how to grieve, we've been told where the place is to express our displeasure with the politicians that are expoiting this event.
Anything other rules we're not following? I certainly don't want to get this whole thing wrong!
posted by HuronBob at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2006
This thread is "not the place"?
Thanks.....we've been told how to grieve, we've been told where the place is to express our displeasure with the politicians that are expoiting this event.
Anything other rules we're not following? I certainly don't want to get this whole thing wrong!
posted by HuronBob at 7:38 AM on September 11, 2006
Who would have ever guessed that proper protesting involves self-immolation. Thanks for the heads up dios.
posted by romakimmy at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by romakimmy at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2006
Therefore one can never discuss the tragic loss of life on that day without necessarily discussing people's assholes opinions on the Iraqi war and George W. Bush, despite the fact those opinions are voice ad nauseum every single day here in other threads?
No, but one shouldn't be surprised, nor overly upset if the subject comes up. Which is fine with me, as long as all the dead, both from 9/11 and on both sides of the war in Iraq are accorded some respect.
posted by jonmc at 7:40 AM on September 11, 2006
No, but one shouldn't be surprised, nor overly upset if the subject comes up. Which is fine with me, as long as all the dead, both from 9/11 and on both sides of the war in Iraq are accorded some respect.
posted by jonmc at 7:40 AM on September 11, 2006
"despite the fact those opinions are voice ad nauseum every single day here in other threads"...
crap...
Let's just silence everyone shall we?
posted by HuronBob at 7:41 AM on September 11, 2006
crap...
Let's just silence everyone shall we?
posted by HuronBob at 7:41 AM on September 11, 2006
if you're family was killed in a plane crash, would you mourn more for the other 125 people killed or your own family?
When something like that happens, you create a bond with some or all of the 124 other families of the deceased. You mourn together and provide strength for another. You don't get together to kill other people to make yourselves feel better.
That's one reason there are so many haters on this tread: the mourning has been turned into a justification for revenge killing.
posted by peeedro at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2006
When something like that happens, you create a bond with some or all of the 124 other families of the deceased. You mourn together and provide strength for another. You don't get together to kill other people to make yourselves feel better.
That's one reason there are so many haters on this tread: the mourning has been turned into a justification for revenge killing.
posted by peeedro at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2006
It's not "politics" dios. It's recognition of the much larger tragedy that this administration has inflicted upon the world in the name of those who died five years ago. It's not a difference of opinion, it's not left vs. right, it's not an episode of fucking Crossfire. It's the greatest abomination commited by my country during my lifetime, and it's your goddamn fault. Yours and all of those who think like you, who continue to give these murderers the power that they so poisonously crave.
So kindly shut the fuck up, and watch who you're calling an asshole. I'm surprised you can type with all the blood on your hands.
posted by Optamystic at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2006
So kindly shut the fuck up, and watch who you're calling an asshole. I'm surprised you can type with all the blood on your hands.
posted by Optamystic at 7:42 AM on September 11, 2006
"Patriot Day" is a misnomer. Patriotism and Patriots have nothing to do with it.
I also made the mistake of turning on msnbc, and it's true: watching it again will mess you up. I understand people wanting to seperate the politics from the remembrance/memorial, but I don't think it's possible, given the way things turned out. I watched the towers go down to a Katie Couric voiceover, and all I could think was "How tragic. And then this was used as an excuse."
disgusted.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2006
I also made the mistake of turning on msnbc, and it's true: watching it again will mess you up. I understand people wanting to seperate the politics from the remembrance/memorial, but I don't think it's possible, given the way things turned out. I watched the towers go down to a Katie Couric voiceover, and all I could think was "How tragic. And then this was used as an excuse."
disgusted.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2006
This may or may not be the time and the place for a discussion of the political ramifications of 9/11, but it is certainly the time and the place for an argument over whether or not it's the time and the place for a discussion of the political ramifications of 9/11. Carry on! I mean, if you want to. I'm not telling you what to do.
posted by cortex at 7:44 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by cortex at 7:44 AM on September 11, 2006
I'm surprised you can type with all the blood on your hands.
posted by Optamystic at 9:42 AM CST on September 11
I keep a lot of moist towelettes next to my keyboard.
posted by dios at 7:46 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Optamystic at 9:42 AM CST on September 11
I keep a lot of moist towelettes next to my keyboard.
posted by dios at 7:46 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Now is not the time to discuss porn.
posted by jonmc at 7:47 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 7:47 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Anything other rules we're not following?
Well, there's the "Don't link to Metafilter threads as your sole link in a post" rule, but apparently that one's been temporarily suspended to keep the noxious 9/11 anniversary fallout contained here. Or something.
posted by mediareport at 7:47 AM on September 11, 2006
Well, there's the "Don't link to Metafilter threads as your sole link in a post" rule, but apparently that one's been temporarily suspended to keep the noxious 9/11 anniversary fallout contained here. Or something.
posted by mediareport at 7:47 AM on September 11, 2006
Carry on! I mean, if you want to. I'm not telling you what to do.
your passive agressive controlling comment is stopping me from properly manipulating everyone else to do what i say. fyi.
posted by Stynxno at 7:48 AM on September 11, 2006
your passive agressive controlling comment is stopping me from properly manipulating everyone else to do what i say. fyi.
posted by Stynxno at 7:48 AM on September 11, 2006
It's pretty unsettling to read the 9/11/01 thread and the 9/11/06 thread back to back. What a difference a few years make.
posted by danb at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by danb at 7:50 AM on September 11, 2006
It's pretty unsettling to read the 9/11/01 thread and the 9/11/06 thread back to back. What a difference a few years make.
posted by danb
A few years, a few hundred thousand more dead, a few billion spent--yeah it's all different.
posted by leftcoastbob at 7:52 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by danb
A few years, a few hundred thousand more dead, a few billion spent--yeah it's all different.
posted by leftcoastbob at 7:52 AM on September 11, 2006
I knew I could rely on MeFi for something like this. Good on yers. Keep up the good work.
posted by unixrat at 7:52 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by unixrat at 7:52 AM on September 11, 2006
A few years and and several thousand equally innocent lives taken in revenge.
posted by Flashman at 7:53 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Flashman at 7:53 AM on September 11, 2006
And in related news, poor misunderstood good-guy-at-heart Ayman al-Zawahri chose today to call upon Muslims and American liberals to attack the west with renewed zeal.
posted by CodeBaloo at 7:55 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by CodeBaloo at 7:55 AM on September 11, 2006
It's a really lovely day here in downtown Manhattan, clear blue skies, sunshine, light breeze. I'm glad to be alive.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:59 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:59 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
I gotta be honest folks... I usually feel pretty sorry for myself on this day. But thanks to this thread, my first media of the day, I'm feeling irritable and vaguely sorry for y'all. Strangely, that's an improvement.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006
Granted, Mink Car signaled a new direction for TMBG, but this seems a bit much.
posted by designbot at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by designbot at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
The idea that 9-11 could ever become an international day of honouring civilan casualties is *so* very wrong and *so* very off the mark that it's gone beyond funny and to somewhere just very, very sad.
Haven't you learned anything in the last five years? The rest of the world has really had it up to the tits with the whole USA! USA! thing, and it's pretty pathetic that, even when you want to honour Dead People Who Aren't American, you'd suggest doing it on America's new Holy Day.
How can that not be clear? Seriously.
posted by stinkycheese at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Haven't you learned anything in the last five years? The rest of the world has really had it up to the tits with the whole USA! USA! thing, and it's pretty pathetic that, even when you want to honour Dead People Who Aren't American, you'd suggest doing it on America's new Holy Day.
How can that not be clear? Seriously.
posted by stinkycheese at 8:00 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Thanks. I wasn't thinking of the casting-out-of-the-moneychangers, but my "Angry Jesus" phrasing may have given that impression.
For years I've had a personal joke: Whenever someone pulls out the "what would Jesus do?" chestnut (hasn't been that many times, in all honesty), I reply (paraphrased):
"Well, for starters he'd get angry at both of us for being so lame. He'd be disappointed that figuring this out could be so hard for us, and he'd end up telling us a story that wasn't clear to us how it related to anything, but when he was done we'd feel kind of stupid and maybe a bit ashamed.
Then he'd probably fuck off for the desert or something."
To all the piouser-than-thou about 9/11 or any of the United States' other failures to live up to our own ideals, forget it: This day has already been lost to those who were willing to trade our grief for their own gain.
To all those who have lost their lives or loved one's or freedom over this 5 year cascading disaster, I am really fucking sorry.
No dot for this post.
posted by illovich at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2006
For years I've had a personal joke: Whenever someone pulls out the "what would Jesus do?" chestnut (hasn't been that many times, in all honesty), I reply (paraphrased):
"Well, for starters he'd get angry at both of us for being so lame. He'd be disappointed that figuring this out could be so hard for us, and he'd end up telling us a story that wasn't clear to us how it related to anything, but when he was done we'd feel kind of stupid and maybe a bit ashamed.
Then he'd probably fuck off for the desert or something."
To all the piouser-than-thou about 9/11 or any of the United States' other failures to live up to our own ideals, forget it: This day has already been lost to those who were willing to trade our grief for their own gain.
To all those who have lost their lives or loved one's or freedom over this 5 year cascading disaster, I am really fucking sorry.
No dot for this post.
posted by illovich at 8:02 AM on September 11, 2006
"On this day, five years ago, the times changed."
At this very moment, I am watching this on TV: the Statue of Liberty superimposed over fireworks, followed by a full-screen waving American flag. Now red-white-and-blue lettering accompanies a man standing in front of the flag, a man wearing a NASCAR driver's outfit. He is exhorting me to show my patriotism on this fifth anniversary of 9/11, by buying an all-American gas-guzzling Chevy SUV.
Indeed, the times have changed.
posted by orthogonality at 8:04 AM on September 11, 2006
At this very moment, I am watching this on TV: the Statue of Liberty superimposed over fireworks, followed by a full-screen waving American flag. Now red-white-and-blue lettering accompanies a man standing in front of the flag, a man wearing a NASCAR driver's outfit. He is exhorting me to show my patriotism on this fifth anniversary of 9/11, by buying an all-American gas-guzzling Chevy SUV.
Indeed, the times have changed.
posted by orthogonality at 8:04 AM on September 11, 2006
"Happy 9/11 everybody.
posted by cillit bang at 9:35 AM EST on September 11"
We had some trouble lighting the candles.
posted by Eideteker at 8:05 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by cillit bang at 9:35 AM EST on September 11"
We had some trouble lighting the candles.
posted by Eideteker at 8:05 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
You know who's getting short changed in all of this? The families of those lost in the Oklahoma City bombing. How many of you think that they would have had the same hoopla about their atrocity if the perpetrator hadn't have been a white Christian?
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by leftcoastbob at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
Anything other rules we're not following?
Here are four:
1. ||
2. ||·
3. ||.
4. ||_
We're definitely not following those rules.
[When the atmosphere is chilling, put on a jumper.]
posted by pracowity at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
Here are four:
1. ||
2. ||·
3. ||.
4. ||_
We're definitely not following those rules.
[When the atmosphere is chilling, put on a jumper.]
posted by pracowity at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
Don't forget the doggy heroes of 9/11.
And a cute puppy refresher.
posted by marxchivist at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
And a cute puppy refresher.
posted by marxchivist at 8:09 AM on September 11, 2006
and it's pretty pathetic that, even when you want to honour Dead People Who Aren't American, you'd suggest doing it on America's new Holy Day.
I don't think anyone seriously thinks of it like that. There are people who want to "honor" the American dead on 9/11 and those reacting to these yearly memorial rituals with the reminder that there are a lot of non-Americans (or "Dead People Who Aren't American") who have suffered and died due to events that have a direct connection with 9/11 and the subsequent actions of the U.S. I don't think people are seriously suggesting that 9/11 be the day to honor dead non-Americans; it's simply a way of reminding/pointing out that we, as a nation, have a tendency to focus on our own dead to the exclusion of the harm that has been done (and is being done) to non-Americans.
Also, Metafilter seems to be having a rough time at the moment.
posted by Stauf at 9:39 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't think anyone seriously thinks of it like that. There are people who want to "honor" the American dead on 9/11 and those reacting to these yearly memorial rituals with the reminder that there are a lot of non-Americans (or "Dead People Who Aren't American") who have suffered and died due to events that have a direct connection with 9/11 and the subsequent actions of the U.S. I don't think people are seriously suggesting that 9/11 be the day to honor dead non-Americans; it's simply a way of reminding/pointing out that we, as a nation, have a tendency to focus on our own dead to the exclusion of the harm that has been done (and is being done) to non-Americans.
Also, Metafilter seems to be having a rough time at the moment.
posted by Stauf at 9:39 AM on September 11, 2006
A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
I don't think people are seriously suggesting that 9/11 be the day to honor dead non-Americans
???
posted by stinkycheese at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't think people are seriously suggesting that 9/11 be the day to honor dead non-Americans
???
posted by stinkycheese at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2006
dios writes "Its off-topic, derailing, and trolling."
Well, this thread violates the double-linking policy, and it also violates the "posts about MetaFilter should all be on the grey", and in most cases that results in thread deletion. In those types of threads, the rules about off-topicness and derailing usually don't apply, and silliness and animated gifs are the order of the day.
Regarding trolling, I use the old school definition of "trolling" (which is why I've never thought of you as a troll, while others have). Since the people here do actually seem to be thinking what they're saying, few, if any, are trolling.
As far as people being broken records: well, yeah, that sucks, but unfortunately you and I are just as guilty of it.
posted by Bugbread at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2006
Well, this thread violates the double-linking policy, and it also violates the "posts about MetaFilter should all be on the grey", and in most cases that results in thread deletion. In those types of threads, the rules about off-topicness and derailing usually don't apply, and silliness and animated gifs are the order of the day.
Regarding trolling, I use the old school definition of "trolling" (which is why I've never thought of you as a troll, while others have). Since the people here do actually seem to be thinking what they're saying, few, if any, are trolling.
As far as people being broken records: well, yeah, that sucks, but unfortunately you and I are just as guilty of it.
posted by Bugbread at 9:43 AM on September 11, 2006
Stauf writes "Metafilter seems to be having a rough time at the moment."
One of the servers is on fire, and Matt's daughter is throwing a toy airplane at the other server as we speak.
posted by Bugbread at 9:45 AM on September 11, 2006
One of the servers is on fire, and Matt's daughter is throwing a toy airplane at the other server as we speak.
posted by Bugbread at 9:45 AM on September 11, 2006
stinkycheese,
flapjax was clearly responding to konolia's statement.
Think of it as a Memorial day for civilian casualties.
Konolia, that's a damn good idea. A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:35 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
Read my comment again. I don't think flapjax was seriously suggesting that 9/11 be commemerated like that. He was responding to konolia's comment in such a way as to suggest... well, jeeze I just went over this, didn't I? I mean if flapjax was being dead serious, I'll take it back, but that's not how I see it.
posted by Stauf at 9:50 AM on September 11, 2006
flapjax was clearly responding to konolia's statement.
Think of it as a Memorial day for civilian casualties.
Konolia, that's a damn good idea. A day of remembrance for all the noncombatants, worldwide and throughout history, who've died in acts of war.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:35 AM PST on September 11 [+] [!]
Read my comment again. I don't think flapjax was seriously suggesting that 9/11 be commemerated like that. He was responding to konolia's comment in such a way as to suggest... well, jeeze I just went over this, didn't I? I mean if flapjax was being dead serious, I'll take it back, but that's not how I see it.
posted by Stauf at 9:50 AM on September 11, 2006
Well, my suggestion to consider it a memorial day had to do with the US not the world.
Meanwhile while the rest of us piss and moan there are plenty of radical groups out there plotting ways to take out more "infidels" in various and sundry ways, who despise the West for its sins real and imagined and won't be happy till Mathowie is praying five times a day towards Mecca and Jessamyn is confined to her house in a burka, whilst Amberglow and I are beheaded. No matter what politics are right or wrong, no matter what your view on Iraq, no matter if you are a liberal or conservative or Ayn Rand devotee, this world is in deep doo and that's a fact.
posted by konolia at 9:56 AM on September 11, 2006
Meanwhile while the rest of us piss and moan there are plenty of radical groups out there plotting ways to take out more "infidels" in various and sundry ways, who despise the West for its sins real and imagined and won't be happy till Mathowie is praying five times a day towards Mecca and Jessamyn is confined to her house in a burka, whilst Amberglow and I are beheaded. No matter what politics are right or wrong, no matter what your view on Iraq, no matter if you are a liberal or conservative or Ayn Rand devotee, this world is in deep doo and that's a fact.
posted by konolia at 9:56 AM on September 11, 2006
Jesus people, weren't you listening:
JUST LEAVE A PERIOD IN THE COMMENTS, AND REFLECT ON THAT DAY TO YOURSELVES.
Dammit!
posted by mazola at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2006
JUST LEAVE A PERIOD IN THE COMMENTS, AND REFLECT ON THAT DAY TO YOURSELVES.
Dammit!
posted by mazola at 9:59 AM on September 11, 2006
I don't want to actively piss in this thread, however lame, but your "fact" is bullshit, konolia. If the US wasn't active in the Middle East, it wouldn't be attracting the ire it is. There is cause and effect here, and the cause isn't Mom's Apple Pie and liberty for all
There are plenty of "western" targets that aren't at threat from Islamic extremists, and the 9/11 attacks weren't because "they hate your freedoms".
posted by bonaldi at 10:01 AM on September 11, 2006
There are plenty of "western" targets that aren't at threat from Islamic extremists, and the 9/11 attacks weren't because "they hate your freedoms".
posted by bonaldi at 10:01 AM on September 11, 2006
What really matters is that, on the evening of 9/11, practically the entire world was behind the USA. More than ever in history, everyone felt like an American. The Bush administration threw it all away.
posted by riotgrrl69 at 10:10 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by riotgrrl69 at 10:10 AM on September 11, 2006
This whole period thing is glib and meaningless. Posting a period in a thread honors exactly nothing, and just maybe it's more of an insult.
posted by Jupiter Jones at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by Jupiter Jones at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
If the US wasn't active in the Middle East, it wouldn't be attracting the ire it is
That may be a component but the factions I speak of would like the whole world to be Islamic. They see us as the Great Satan for far more than our interest in Israel. They see us as exporters of pornography, they think all our women are whores, I could go on and on.
They do their terrorist acts in lots other places besides here-in fact most are not here. A lot of that has nothing to do with us in the middle east.
posted by konolia at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2006
That may be a component but the factions I speak of would like the whole world to be Islamic. They see us as the Great Satan for far more than our interest in Israel. They see us as exporters of pornography, they think all our women are whores, I could go on and on.
They do their terrorist acts in lots other places besides here-in fact most are not here. A lot of that has nothing to do with us in the middle east.
posted by konolia at 10:13 AM on September 11, 2006
Jonmc: Congrats, and as someone who was married seven years ago today, I can tell you, yes it is a little weird now, celebrating.
*shakes fist at terra*
posted by everichon at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2006
*shakes fist at terra*
posted by everichon at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2006
One more thing. If someone disagrees with me here they type out a reply. If an islamic terrorist disagrees with something he wants to blow it up. That is evil, period.
posted by konolia at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by konolia at 10:17 AM on September 11, 2006
riotgrrl69 writes "What really matters is that, on the evening of 9/11, practically the entire world was behind the USA. More than ever in history, everyone felt like an American."
Er, hold on. I understand what I think you're getting at, but when you say "everyone" in your second sentence, after "the whole world" in the first, are you meaning the same group? Because while much of the world was behind the USA, they did not feel like Americans.
posted by Bugbread at 10:18 AM on September 11, 2006
Er, hold on. I understand what I think you're getting at, but when you say "everyone" in your second sentence, after "the whole world" in the first, are you meaning the same group? Because while much of the world was behind the USA, they did not feel like Americans.
posted by Bugbread at 10:18 AM on September 11, 2006
Sorry all those peopl are dead, even sorrier our leaders used it as a reason for war that had nothing to do with the act that killed them.
posted by Dome-O-Rama at 10:20 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Dome-O-Rama at 10:20 AM on September 11, 2006
Jupiter Jones writes "This whole period thing is glib and meaningless. Posting a period in a thread honors exactly nothing, and just maybe it's more of an insult."
And even more so when the period is compelled by the poster ("just leave a period in the comments") rather than spontaneous.
Yes, we're all saddened by the tragedy of 9/11, but insisting on ritualistic manufactured "reflection" or wallowing in repeated broadcasts of the horror of that day doesn't honor the victims, it's just bizarre navel-gazing self-pity and fetishization of fear.
It happened. It was terrible. Now it's time to move on.
posted by orthogonality at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2006
And even more so when the period is compelled by the poster ("just leave a period in the comments") rather than spontaneous.
Yes, we're all saddened by the tragedy of 9/11, but insisting on ritualistic manufactured "reflection" or wallowing in repeated broadcasts of the horror of that day doesn't honor the victims, it's just bizarre navel-gazing self-pity and fetishization of fear.
It happened. It was terrible. Now it's time to move on.
posted by orthogonality at 10:21 AM on September 11, 2006
konolia writes "If someone disagrees with me here they type out a reply. If an islamic terrorist disagrees with something he wants to blow it up. That is evil, period."
Huh?
So how did the Islamic terrorists blow up the twin towers? I mean, if they blow up everything they disagree with, they'd have all blown themselves up upon opening the morning newspaper, or trying to find a decent radio station with few commercials. They'd never have gotten to the airport.
I think the accurate phrasing is "If someone who isn't a terrorist disagrees with me here, they type out a reply. If someone who is a terrorist disagrees with something strongly enough to blow it up, they blow it up. That is evil, period."
And am I to take it that the "blowing up" thing only applies to Islamic terrorists, and not non-Islamic terrorists?
Your comment is confusing, period.
posted by Bugbread at 10:23 AM on September 11, 2006
Huh?
So how did the Islamic terrorists blow up the twin towers? I mean, if they blow up everything they disagree with, they'd have all blown themselves up upon opening the morning newspaper, or trying to find a decent radio station with few commercials. They'd never have gotten to the airport.
I think the accurate phrasing is "If someone who isn't a terrorist disagrees with me here, they type out a reply. If someone who is a terrorist disagrees with something strongly enough to blow it up, they blow it up. That is evil, period."
And am I to take it that the "blowing up" thing only applies to Islamic terrorists, and not non-Islamic terrorists?
Your comment is confusing, period.
posted by Bugbread at 10:23 AM on September 11, 2006
and as someone who was married seven years ago today
That was awfully insensitive of you, why didn't you plan ahead?
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:24 AM on September 11, 2006
That was awfully insensitive of you, why didn't you plan ahead?
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:24 AM on September 11, 2006
That may be a component but the factions I speak of would like the whole world to be Islamic. They see us as the Great Satan for far more than our interest in Israel. They see us as exporters of pornography, they think all our women are whores, I could go on and on.
Yes, but no more, and over a similar spectrum of dedication, than Christians would like to have everyone believe in Jesus. This is not what fuels the terrorism, and it's why there isn't currently Christian terrorism.
What drives it -- like it drove the Crusades -- is realpolitik. They use religious rhetoric, but it's all about power. The US is in the Middle East -- particularly Saudi Arabia -- because it makes economic sense for them to be so. Terrorist attacks are an attempt to tilt that equation the other way. If given the choice, they'd much prefer to hate the Great Satan from a very comfortable distance.
posted by bonaldi at 10:25 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yes, but no more, and over a similar spectrum of dedication, than Christians would like to have everyone believe in Jesus. This is not what fuels the terrorism, and it's why there isn't currently Christian terrorism.
What drives it -- like it drove the Crusades -- is realpolitik. They use religious rhetoric, but it's all about power. The US is in the Middle East -- particularly Saudi Arabia -- because it makes economic sense for them to be so. Terrorist attacks are an attempt to tilt that equation the other way. If given the choice, they'd much prefer to hate the Great Satan from a very comfortable distance.
posted by bonaldi at 10:25 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
JUST LEAVE A PERIOD IN THE COMMENTS, AND REFLECT ON THAT DAY TO YOURSELVES. - mazola
But then what's the point of having a thread at all? I imagine some of the bickering would have come up in any post related to this topic, but I think it's moreso because of the bossy FPP. If you're going to say to people "you must mourn for this, and you must do it in this particular way" they're going to push against that.
posted by raedyn at 10:32 AM on September 11, 2006
But then what's the point of having a thread at all? I imagine some of the bickering would have come up in any post related to this topic, but I think it's moreso because of the bossy FPP. If you're going to say to people "you must mourn for this, and you must do it in this particular way" they're going to push against that.
posted by raedyn at 10:32 AM on September 11, 2006
And in related news, poor misunderstood good-guy-at-heart Ayman al-Zawahri chose today to call upon Muslims and American liberals to attack the west with renewed zeal.
posted by CodeBaloo
What the fuck is that? Was that a joke? I don't speak Arabic, so I can't watch the original video, but none of the news services I checked are reporting this call to American liberals to "attack the west".
Stop being such a cunt.
posted by Mister_A at 10:33 AM on September 11, 2006
2 things.
1st, konolia: I'm under the impression that the nasty habit of "blowing up" what one doesn't like is pretty widespread, unfortunately. One example, in Sept. 11, 1973, the U.S. backed a coup in Chile against a govt. they didn't like. The images of their Palacio de la Moneda being blown up are quite famous, so, so much for "typing out" our differences.
2nd, and more importantly. Lots of people died in the 1973 coup, lots of people died in the 2001 events. I think both are tragic and we should mourn the dead because they are innocent victims. Could we skip checking their passport to see if we should be mourning them?
posted by micayetoca at 10:33 AM on September 11, 2006
1st, konolia: I'm under the impression that the nasty habit of "blowing up" what one doesn't like is pretty widespread, unfortunately. One example, in Sept. 11, 1973, the U.S. backed a coup in Chile against a govt. they didn't like. The images of their Palacio de la Moneda being blown up are quite famous, so, so much for "typing out" our differences.
2nd, and more importantly. Lots of people died in the 1973 coup, lots of people died in the 2001 events. I think both are tragic and we should mourn the dead because they are innocent victims. Could we skip checking their passport to see if we should be mourning them?
posted by micayetoca at 10:33 AM on September 11, 2006
DONATE YOUR '.' HERE
If we collect eight-million dots we can get a poor crippled girl a much-needed wheelchair!
posted by mazola at 10:33 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
If we collect eight-million dots we can get a poor crippled girl a much-needed wheelchair!
posted by mazola at 10:33 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Islamic terrorists blow themselves up because they have been taught that it will give them eternal paradise. konolia just happens to have been taught something else.
posted by riotgrrl69 at 10:34 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by riotgrrl69 at 10:34 AM on September 11, 2006
"plenty of radical groups out there plotting ways to take out more "infidels" in various and sundry ways"
Was this a reference to "W" ??
posted by HuronBob at 10:39 AM on September 11, 2006
Was this a reference to "W" ??
posted by HuronBob at 10:39 AM on September 11, 2006
Islamic terrorists blow themselves up because they have been taught that it will give them eternal paradise.
To a certain extent, this is true. However, the primary goal of any such attack is always an earthly one, an attempt to induce real change in the minds of others, both among one's own people and in the minds of the perceived enemy. If a blind antagonism backed up by a belief in eternal reward was really all that motivated terrorists, the world would look very very different than it does.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:39 AM on September 11, 2006
To a certain extent, this is true. However, the primary goal of any such attack is always an earthly one, an attempt to induce real change in the minds of others, both among one's own people and in the minds of the perceived enemy. If a blind antagonism backed up by a belief in eternal reward was really all that motivated terrorists, the world would look very very different than it does.
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:39 AM on September 11, 2006
This is a thread that is supposed to be filled with nothing but periods. So let me assist:
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There. That's about 3000 periods, enough for every person who died in the attacks. I AM MORE HARDCORE AT REMEMBERING THAN YOU ALL.
posted by chrominance at 10:40 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
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There. That's about 3000 periods, enough for every person who died in the attacks. I AM MORE HARDCORE AT REMEMBERING THAN YOU ALL.
posted by chrominance at 10:40 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's definitely a day to remember the tragedy of that day.
But also a day to renew our quest for peace in the world and to reaffirm our committment to remove from power and punish those who are exploiting this day to their own personal ends and trying to do a power grab both in the United States and throughout the world.
.
posted by MythMaker at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2006
But also a day to renew our quest for peace in the world and to reaffirm our committment to remove from power and punish those who are exploiting this day to their own personal ends and trying to do a power grab both in the United States and throughout the world.
.
posted by MythMaker at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2006
okey, chrominanceyou gathered enough dots, now let's see if NationalKato can agitate 'em.
posted by micayetoca at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by micayetoca at 10:43 AM on September 11, 2006
This has been a poignant and moving memorial thread. I hope someone is asked to 'stop being such a cunt' at my funeral service.
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:46 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:46 AM on September 11, 2006
I hope the corpse is asked that, accompanied by a lot of futile beating of fists on the casket. Just stop it already, even in death you can't let me beeee!
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2006
Pushing through the market square, so many mothers sighing
News had just come over, we had five years left to cry in
News guy wept and told us, earth was really dying
Cried so much his face was wet, then I knew he was not lying
I heard telephones, opera house, favourite melodies
I saw boys, toys, electric irons and t.v.s
My brain hurt like a warehouse, it had no room to spare
I had to cram so many things to store everything in there.
And all the fat-skinny people, and all the tall-short people
And all the nobody people, and all the somebody people
I never thought I'd need so many people.
- 'Five Years' by David Bowie
posted by NationalKato at 10:53 AM on September 11, 2006
News had just come over, we had five years left to cry in
News guy wept and told us, earth was really dying
Cried so much his face was wet, then I knew he was not lying
I heard telephones, opera house, favourite melodies
I saw boys, toys, electric irons and t.v.s
My brain hurt like a warehouse, it had no room to spare
I had to cram so many things to store everything in there.
And all the fat-skinny people, and all the tall-short people
And all the nobody people, and all the somebody people
I never thought I'd need so many people.
- 'Five Years' by David Bowie
posted by NationalKato at 10:53 AM on September 11, 2006
I lost my youngest child in the south tower. He had started his new job just a few months before.
There are no politics, no heroes, no villains to ponder -- most times, there are no other victims except that young man who is always 3 years old in my memories.
If you really cared, you'd leave an ellipsis.
Thanks, cortex -- made me smile.
posted by joaquim at 11:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
There are no politics, no heroes, no villains to ponder -- most times, there are no other victims except that young man who is always 3 years old in my memories.
If you really cared, you'd leave an ellipsis.
Thanks, cortex -- made me smile.
posted by joaquim at 11:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [2 favorites]
It happened. It was terrible. Now it's time to move on. - orthogonality
Yes. I saw some of the memorial ceremonies on the TV this morning while I was getting ready for work. I watched a NYPD officer speak of his late wife who is one of the many first responders (NYPD as well) who died at the WTC that day. He had their daughter with him (pic). She couldn't have been more that 3 (maybe less) when this tragedy occured. While her life will be forever affected by the loss of her mother I hope that it isn't made into a cross for her to be weighed down by for the rest of her days. Seeing that kid for me was sort of a symbol of what the whole country needs to do. To move on. Never forget, but to not sacrifice all the beautiful vibrant possibilites of the future because of a tragedy in the past.
There's a point at which the nation needs to decide not to come to a standstill on the anniversary. For each person to empower themselves and their familes/friends etc to take back control of their lives and their country and to stop living in fear.
As someone upthread quoted, the best revenge is a life well-lived.
posted by raedyn at 11:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yes. I saw some of the memorial ceremonies on the TV this morning while I was getting ready for work. I watched a NYPD officer speak of his late wife who is one of the many first responders (NYPD as well) who died at the WTC that day. He had their daughter with him (pic). She couldn't have been more that 3 (maybe less) when this tragedy occured. While her life will be forever affected by the loss of her mother I hope that it isn't made into a cross for her to be weighed down by for the rest of her days. Seeing that kid for me was sort of a symbol of what the whole country needs to do. To move on. Never forget, but to not sacrifice all the beautiful vibrant possibilites of the future because of a tragedy in the past.
There's a point at which the nation needs to decide not to come to a standstill on the anniversary. For each person to empower themselves and their familes/friends etc to take back control of their lives and their country and to stop living in fear.
As someone upthread quoted, the best revenge is a life well-lived.
posted by raedyn at 11:02 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Stauf: I don't think flapjax was seriously suggesting that 9/11 be commemerated like that.
konolia: Well, my suggestion to consider it a memorial day had to do with the US not the world.
OK guys, if you say so, that's fine. But to further quote flapjax:
Well, as long as we're talking theoretical observances, let me elaborate: what I have in mind is not a day that this country, or any country, would hold. This would be a international people's day of remembrance. Those individuals around the world who wish to remember and honor those unfortunate dead could do so, with a "straight face". This would be a day where we reflect upon the horrors that can spring from nationalism, from xenophobia, from the very notion of "country".
Now, such a day of remembrance is a nice idea - and falpjax's delivery is quite sincere, it seems to me. So falpjax, at least, really was actually completely straight-facedly suggesting that 9-11 be celebrated as a day of remembrance for civilian casualties/war dead - even if Stauf and konolia were not.
But we already have such a day, it seems to me: I dwell on those very things every 11th of November.
And while I don't mean to slight flapjax personally, I find such an idea not only bizarre, but the very height of arrogance. It is just stunning in its implicit worldview.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:03 AM on September 11, 2006
konolia: Well, my suggestion to consider it a memorial day had to do with the US not the world.
OK guys, if you say so, that's fine. But to further quote flapjax:
Well, as long as we're talking theoretical observances, let me elaborate: what I have in mind is not a day that this country, or any country, would hold. This would be a international people's day of remembrance. Those individuals around the world who wish to remember and honor those unfortunate dead could do so, with a "straight face". This would be a day where we reflect upon the horrors that can spring from nationalism, from xenophobia, from the very notion of "country".
Now, such a day of remembrance is a nice idea - and falpjax's delivery is quite sincere, it seems to me. So falpjax, at least, really was actually completely straight-facedly suggesting that 9-11 be celebrated as a day of remembrance for civilian casualties/war dead - even if Stauf and konolia were not.
But we already have such a day, it seems to me: I dwell on those very things every 11th of November.
And while I don't mean to slight flapjax personally, I find such an idea not only bizarre, but the very height of arrogance. It is just stunning in its implicit worldview.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:03 AM on September 11, 2006
Sorry for getting your name wrong there a few times flapjax, I'm just typing too fast.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:06 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 11:06 AM on September 11, 2006
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posted by orthogonality at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
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posted by orthogonality at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
I may disagree with you, but I should at least spell your name correctly.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
chrominance writes "There. That's about 3000 periods, enough for every person who died in the attacks. I AM MORE HARDCORE AT REMEMBERING THAN YOU ALL."
Fixed that for you.
posted by orthogonality at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
Fixed that for you.
posted by orthogonality at 11:07 AM on September 11, 2006
Don't MAKE me add little ASCII planes to my dot towers.
posted by chrominance at 11:12 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by chrominance at 11:12 AM on September 11, 2006
bugbread : One of the servers is on fire, and Matt's daughter is throwing a toy airplane at the other server as we speak.
I did not laugh at this, I swear.
Honestly. I didn't.
/looks around nervously.
Seriously.
posted by quin at 11:13 AM on September 11, 2006
I did not laugh at this, I swear.
Honestly. I didn't.
/looks around nervously.
Seriously.
posted by quin at 11:13 AM on September 11, 2006
Anybody remember when you were a kid sitting in church with your hair uncomfortably combed and your feet dangling from that wood bench?
You sat there breaking a sweat to work up pure and sacred thoughts. You KNEW God was peering into your brain with his magic magnifying glass. The Big Guy was ready to pounce vengence on you for any stray neuron in your noggin occupied with anything other than visions of Jesus.
And then that quiet moment between sermons. And sombody would fart. A tiny squeeker. It would echo just a little down the isle. Maybe that old lady in the lavender hat? Maybe the fat guy with the nasal spray?
Then your realized it was you. Your horror only made it worse and you farted again.
And vengence never came.
Being so uptight about what is the natural and varied ways people deal with the sacred is not healthy.
If there is a god he KNOWS you fart. I bet it doesn't bother him.
If there are firemen and banker ghosts wandering around the WTC site they know you fart, too.
People that lost people they love— they just want to know you think about them in a way that means something to YOU.
posted by tkchrist at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
You sat there breaking a sweat to work up pure and sacred thoughts. You KNEW God was peering into your brain with his magic magnifying glass. The Big Guy was ready to pounce vengence on you for any stray neuron in your noggin occupied with anything other than visions of Jesus.
And then that quiet moment between sermons. And sombody would fart. A tiny squeeker. It would echo just a little down the isle. Maybe that old lady in the lavender hat? Maybe the fat guy with the nasal spray?
Then your realized it was you. Your horror only made it worse and you farted again.
And vengence never came.
Being so uptight about what is the natural and varied ways people deal with the sacred is not healthy.
If there is a god he KNOWS you fart. I bet it doesn't bother him.
If there are firemen and banker ghosts wandering around the WTC site they know you fart, too.
People that lost people they love— they just want to know you think about them in a way that means something to YOU.
posted by tkchrist at 11:14 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
__ ) | | _(_ | || *< -''->- | || |`I think this is what quonsar was going for.
posted by cortex at 11:21 AM on September 11, 2006
stinkycheese, I think you may be right. But then, I'm not sure if at that point flapjax was talking specifically about September 11th or just generally. In any case, I do agree that having such a day be held on 9/11 would be terribly self-centered.
Of course, really, I think that people shouldn't need a specific day to "remember" civilian/innocent deaths. Such so-called "collateral damage" should always be kept in mind.
posted by Stauf at 11:25 AM on September 11, 2006
Of course, really, I think that people shouldn't need a specific day to "remember" civilian/innocent deaths. Such so-called "collateral damage" should always be kept in mind.
posted by Stauf at 11:25 AM on September 11, 2006
What an asinine topic.
posted by Cycloptichorn at 11:33 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by Cycloptichorn at 11:33 AM on September 11, 2006
I thought the CNN re-live coverage was a bad idea. But tune in for 30 seconds...
Yeah, I found myself riveted. I was working in Manhattan that day, so I had no opportunity to watch CNN (which is what my wife was doing) -- I was getting my news from phone calls and the famous MeFi thread. What struck me more and more forcibly as time went on was how lame and boring the coverage was. For over an hour they just kept showing the same shot (from what, several miles north?) of the burning towers and consulting the same talking heads. I wanted to kill the next person who used the phrases "these extraordinary events" or "this senseless tragedy." I kept thinking: "Right down there, where your cameras are pointing, there are thousands of people running and falling and dying, there's a catastrophe of unknown proportions taking place, and you're content to sit here and show us the view from afar and speculate and spew cliches? Where are the close-up shots, the man-in-the-street interviews, the unsanitized reality of the event?" I realize CNN is Atlanta-based, but hell, they've got a big crew in NYC, and they could have switched to ABC coverage as they did for about 20 seconds early on. It wasn't until 10:00 that they finally went to on-the-scene coverage, interviewing a near-hysterical woman who talked about all the people she'd seen jumping to their deaths (the first time that had been mentioned, I think); then they went back to Aaron Brown, and as he was talking the second tower collapsed, right on camera, and for a few blessed seconds he shut up, finally saying "Good lord... there are no words." Of course he quickly found his way back to dead-cliche-land, but for a few minutes there you felt the full horror of the situation in all its immediacy. My gut is still a little churned up.
And when they cut to the Prez in Florida I noticed that before his solemn vow that terrorism "would not stand" (just like the Towers!) he took the time to thank the Booker School (if I'm remembering the name correctly) for their hospitality. What a polite, confused, hapless little boy. Then they whisked him off and read him bedtime stories while the grownups dealt with the situation.
joaquim: I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
jonmc: Congratulations, man. I got married in the summer of 2001, but fortunately before the shit came down. Getting married is great—enjoy it to the full!
posted by languagehat at 11:33 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I found myself riveted. I was working in Manhattan that day, so I had no opportunity to watch CNN (which is what my wife was doing) -- I was getting my news from phone calls and the famous MeFi thread. What struck me more and more forcibly as time went on was how lame and boring the coverage was. For over an hour they just kept showing the same shot (from what, several miles north?) of the burning towers and consulting the same talking heads. I wanted to kill the next person who used the phrases "these extraordinary events" or "this senseless tragedy." I kept thinking: "Right down there, where your cameras are pointing, there are thousands of people running and falling and dying, there's a catastrophe of unknown proportions taking place, and you're content to sit here and show us the view from afar and speculate and spew cliches? Where are the close-up shots, the man-in-the-street interviews, the unsanitized reality of the event?" I realize CNN is Atlanta-based, but hell, they've got a big crew in NYC, and they could have switched to ABC coverage as they did for about 20 seconds early on. It wasn't until 10:00 that they finally went to on-the-scene coverage, interviewing a near-hysterical woman who talked about all the people she'd seen jumping to their deaths (the first time that had been mentioned, I think); then they went back to Aaron Brown, and as he was talking the second tower collapsed, right on camera, and for a few blessed seconds he shut up, finally saying "Good lord... there are no words." Of course he quickly found his way back to dead-cliche-land, but for a few minutes there you felt the full horror of the situation in all its immediacy. My gut is still a little churned up.
And when they cut to the Prez in Florida I noticed that before his solemn vow that terrorism "would not stand" (just like the Towers!) he took the time to thank the Booker School (if I'm remembering the name correctly) for their hospitality. What a polite, confused, hapless little boy. Then they whisked him off and read him bedtime stories while the grownups dealt with the situation.
joaquim: I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
jonmc: Congratulations, man. I got married in the summer of 2001, but fortunately before the shit came down. Getting married is great—enjoy it to the full!
posted by languagehat at 11:33 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
On this day, five years ago, the times changed. In honor of all who perished, just leave a period in the comments, and reflect on that day to yourselves.
posted by wheelieman
You know what? Bite me. I'm not letting you, this administration, the Democrats, the Republicans, The Theocrats, or the general populace tell *ME* to follow some bullshit rule about how *I'M* supposed to mourn, remember, etc.
How dare you presume that you have that authority. What on earth would give you the giant brass balls it would take to think you're suddenly the Memorial etiquette Police. Bite me, kid. Bite my shiny, CIA coup remembering, non-flag draped ass.
As to 9/11 itself, let's pull ourselves out of our national prostration and fix things, shall we? We are not some wounded prom queen who needs to show off her owies for attention. We're the United States of America, goddammit. Let's act like it. Suck it up, brush the gravel out of the wound, and pull our shit together.
I am sick and tired of hearing that "Everything changed!" Everything didn't fucking change unless you lived in New York City, or a cow field in Pennsylvania, or worked in the Pentagon. LA is still the same crime ridden whore of a city, Dallas is still a vacuous excuse for breeding trophy wives, Houston still sucks...Kansas...well, who the hell knows what's going on in Kansas, but I'm pretty goddamn sure it hasn't been invaded by crazed scimitar wielding Muslims. And neither has any other place. Ergo...everything DIDN'T change until the government MADE it change. Nothing to do with 9/11. Everything to do with a government looking for an excuse to enforce ideas first plotted in the Nixon administration...by the same damn people.
Every major country in the world has had a terror attack of some denomination. Were any of them as stylistically impressive as 9/11? No. I mean, the Towers falling is a media wet dream as far as rebroadcasting goes. But do you see the Brits replaying all of the IRA bombs, over and over while masturbating with a flag? No. Indonesia? Nope. Russia? Nope. Turkey, India, Pakistan...anyone, anyone at all insisting that the world modify the way it does everything from tourist travel to war because a handful of citizens were killed by outsiders? No? Huh.
Yes, 9/11 sucked. It sucked for my friends that died that day more so than it sucked for me. It sucks more now for my friends who still live in the toxic cloud. It sucks for the rest of NY, who not only has to deal with the physical manifestation of the attack, but has to deal with the constant focus of nationalistic drum beating...while getting virtually no help to fix it, or make sure it doesn't happen again. That sucks. Maybe the millions of people living with the aftermath deserve a dot. You want dots, wheelieman? Here's your dots.
How about a dot for government transparency?
How about a dot for public servants? (all of whom have assumed the mantle of masters)
How about a dot for our lost civil liberties.
How about a dot for our Bill of Rights, our Constitution, and the Magna Carta?
How about a dot for our missing independent press?
How about a dot for the WWII vets that must be spinning in their graves as American turns to "nationalism".
How about a dot for America.
posted by dejah420 at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2006 [11 favorites]
posted by wheelieman
You know what? Bite me. I'm not letting you, this administration, the Democrats, the Republicans, The Theocrats, or the general populace tell *ME* to follow some bullshit rule about how *I'M* supposed to mourn, remember, etc.
How dare you presume that you have that authority. What on earth would give you the giant brass balls it would take to think you're suddenly the Memorial etiquette Police. Bite me, kid. Bite my shiny, CIA coup remembering, non-flag draped ass.
As to 9/11 itself, let's pull ourselves out of our national prostration and fix things, shall we? We are not some wounded prom queen who needs to show off her owies for attention. We're the United States of America, goddammit. Let's act like it. Suck it up, brush the gravel out of the wound, and pull our shit together.
I am sick and tired of hearing that "Everything changed!" Everything didn't fucking change unless you lived in New York City, or a cow field in Pennsylvania, or worked in the Pentagon. LA is still the same crime ridden whore of a city, Dallas is still a vacuous excuse for breeding trophy wives, Houston still sucks...Kansas...well, who the hell knows what's going on in Kansas, but I'm pretty goddamn sure it hasn't been invaded by crazed scimitar wielding Muslims. And neither has any other place. Ergo...everything DIDN'T change until the government MADE it change. Nothing to do with 9/11. Everything to do with a government looking for an excuse to enforce ideas first plotted in the Nixon administration...by the same damn people.
Every major country in the world has had a terror attack of some denomination. Were any of them as stylistically impressive as 9/11? No. I mean, the Towers falling is a media wet dream as far as rebroadcasting goes. But do you see the Brits replaying all of the IRA bombs, over and over while masturbating with a flag? No. Indonesia? Nope. Russia? Nope. Turkey, India, Pakistan...anyone, anyone at all insisting that the world modify the way it does everything from tourist travel to war because a handful of citizens were killed by outsiders? No? Huh.
Yes, 9/11 sucked. It sucked for my friends that died that day more so than it sucked for me. It sucks more now for my friends who still live in the toxic cloud. It sucks for the rest of NY, who not only has to deal with the physical manifestation of the attack, but has to deal with the constant focus of nationalistic drum beating...while getting virtually no help to fix it, or make sure it doesn't happen again. That sucks. Maybe the millions of people living with the aftermath deserve a dot. You want dots, wheelieman? Here's your dots.
How about a dot for government transparency?
How about a dot for public servants? (all of whom have assumed the mantle of masters)
How about a dot for our lost civil liberties.
How about a dot for our Bill of Rights, our Constitution, and the Magna Carta?
How about a dot for our missing independent press?
How about a dot for the WWII vets that must be spinning in their graves as American turns to "nationalism".
How about a dot for America.
posted by dejah420 at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2006 [11 favorites]
dejah420 writes "We're the United States of America, goddammit. Let's act like it."
Er, we are. The way America is acting right now? That's how the United States of America acts.
posted by Bugbread at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Er, we are. The way America is acting right now? That's how the United States of America acts.
posted by Bugbread at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Ergo...everything DIDN'T change until the government MADE it change. Nothing to do with 9/11. Everything to do with a government looking for an excuse to enforce ideas first plotted in the Nixon administration...by the same damn people.
Yes. "Everything changed" == "I want to change everything"
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:46 AM on September 11, 2006
Yes. "Everything changed" == "I want to change everything"
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:46 AM on September 11, 2006
Jonmc is getting married? Now that's really going to change things!
posted by delmoi at 11:50 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by delmoi at 11:50 AM on September 11, 2006
well, who the hell knows what's going on in Kansas
something involving wheat, I imagine.
posted by jonmc at 11:50 AM on September 11, 2006
something involving wheat, I imagine.
posted by jonmc at 11:50 AM on September 11, 2006
For joaquim's son, and all the other mothers' babies:
.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:51 AM on September 11, 2006
.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:51 AM on September 11, 2006
Jonmc is getting married? Now that's really going to change things!
yes, I'm off-limits now. you'll all have to settle for the second sexiest being on the planet, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 11:52 AM on September 11, 2006
yes, I'm off-limits now. you'll all have to settle for the second sexiest being on the planet, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 11:52 AM on September 11, 2006
Of course, really, I think that people shouldn't need a specific day to "remember" civilian/innocent deaths. Such so-called "collateral damage" should always be kept in mind. - Stauf
Yes. When I wear the poppy in November every year, I wear it for everyone lost in the horrors of war. For a few years, I wore a button next to it that said "for ALL casualties of war". I wonder if I can find that button before Rememberance day this year.
[two dot towers]
Fixed that for you. - orthogonality
I was thinking the same thing. But you went and did it, so I bow to your hardcareness. =)
posted by raedyn at 11:52 AM on September 11, 2006
Yes. When I wear the poppy in November every year, I wear it for everyone lost in the horrors of war. For a few years, I wore a button next to it that said "for ALL casualties of war". I wonder if I can find that button before Rememberance day this year.
[two dot towers]
Fixed that for you. - orthogonality
I was thinking the same thing. But you went and did it, so I bow to your hardcareness. =)
posted by raedyn at 11:52 AM on September 11, 2006
It'll be a cold day in hell before I give up a dot for the Magna Carta.
posted by jefbla at 11:54 AM on September 11, 2006
posted by jefbla at 11:54 AM on September 11, 2006
a passing thought:
What's the difference between an fundamentalist Muslim boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for Islam and a Christian boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for America?
posted by raedyn at 11:57 AM on September 11, 2006
What's the difference between an fundamentalist Muslim boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for Islam and a Christian boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for America?
posted by raedyn at 11:57 AM on September 11, 2006
I lost my youngest child in the south tower. He had started his new job just a few months before.
Puts it in perspective for me. It was a human tragedy, and unfortunately led to many other tragedies, many other youngest children dead- and for what? So maniacs all over the world can play games and get more power.
posted by cell divide at 12:00 PM on September 11, 2006
Puts it in perspective for me. It was a human tragedy, and unfortunately led to many other tragedies, many other youngest children dead- and for what? So maniacs all over the world can play games and get more power.
posted by cell divide at 12:00 PM on September 11, 2006
What's the difference between an fundamentalist Muslim boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for Islam and a Christian boy that is brought up thinking that it's heroic to die fighting for America?
Simple, the former is a barely sentient ape-man and the other is a product of Civilization, which Christians invented.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:00 PM on September 11, 2006
Simple, the former is a barely sentient ape-man and the other is a product of Civilization, which Christians invented.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:00 PM on September 11, 2006
Of course, not all victims of 9/11 are the same. And some people of trying to take advantage of 9/11. No, no, not George Bush, silly! The sodomites!
The Rev. Lou Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition, a lobbying group, has criticized the drive to treat gay survivors as spouses.posted by orthogonality at 12:03 PM on September 11, 2006
"We feel that the homosexual agenda is trying to take advantage of the tragedy," he said, speaking from his offices in Anaheim, Calif. "We're treating them like they're married, and in doing that, we're destroying marriage because you're lowering it to a homosexual level."
.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:08 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:08 PM on September 11, 2006
Since we're reminiscing, what ever happened to that Osama Bin Something guy, anyway?
posted by mazola at 12:20 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by mazola at 12:20 PM on September 11, 2006
You want a period? Sorry, you'll have to wait until next month when the progesterone levels drop again. I'll come back and draw a bloody ASCII rag.
I've always been under the impression that the dot was something you posted in a thread voluntarily, when you wanted to say something but couldn't find the right words. Don't insult us by presuming we all can't articulate our thoughts. Don't fucking tell us, or anyone, how to act and think today, or any other day, because just as we each had different experiences of Sept. 11, 2001, each one of us have the bloody right to remember it, or not, however the hell we each want.
I'm sorry if you had the idea that you were going to produce the Moving Memorable Fifth Anniversary FPP.
posted by casarkos at 12:21 PM on September 11, 2006
I've always been under the impression that the dot was something you posted in a thread voluntarily, when you wanted to say something but couldn't find the right words. Don't insult us by presuming we all can't articulate our thoughts. Don't fucking tell us, or anyone, how to act and think today, or any other day, because just as we each had different experiences of Sept. 11, 2001, each one of us have the bloody right to remember it, or not, however the hell we each want.
I'm sorry if you had the idea that you were going to produce the Moving Memorable Fifth Anniversary FPP.
posted by casarkos at 12:21 PM on September 11, 2006
dejah420 said: We're the United States of America, goddammit. Let's act like it.
fandango_matt replied: We always have. That's why people want to kill us.
Fair cop. What I should have said is "behave the way 1950's black and white television and WWII era fiction would lead one to believe was the norm in the Truman/Eisenhower years. " You know, all that grit, and gumption, and nose-to-the-grindstone sort of Horatio Alger-ness.
joaquim: I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
Jonmc: I am stunned...nay...crushed. How shall I go on, knowing that you shall be forever melded with another. First matteo, and now you. You all leave me for "real" women. *sniff* (Hee! Congrats you big goof, you're a lucky man to find a woman who'll put up with you. ;)
posted by dejah420 at 12:23 PM on September 11, 2006
fandango_matt replied: We always have. That's why people want to kill us.
Fair cop. What I should have said is "behave the way 1950's black and white television and WWII era fiction would lead one to believe was the norm in the Truman/Eisenhower years. " You know, all that grit, and gumption, and nose-to-the-grindstone sort of Horatio Alger-ness.
joaquim: I'm terribly sorry for your loss.
Jonmc: I am stunned...nay...crushed. How shall I go on, knowing that you shall be forever melded with another. First matteo, and now you. You all leave me for "real" women. *sniff* (Hee! Congrats you big goof, you're a lucky man to find a woman who'll put up with you. ;)
posted by dejah420 at 12:23 PM on September 11, 2006
Preach it, dejah420!! Best post in this thread!
posted by disgustipated at 12:24 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by disgustipated at 12:24 PM on September 11, 2006
mazola writes "Since we're reminiscing, what ever happened to that Osama Bin Something guy, anyway?"
Same thing that happened to rogue nuclear-bomb expert A. Q. Khan: our ally Pakistan, recipient of $3 Billion in US Aid since 9/11, offered him sanctuary.
posted by orthogonality at 12:24 PM on September 11, 2006
Same thing that happened to rogue nuclear-bomb expert A. Q. Khan: our ally Pakistan, recipient of $3 Billion in US Aid since 9/11, offered him sanctuary.
posted by orthogonality at 12:24 PM on September 11, 2006
Well, it certainly changed life here, locally.
But then, Fort Bragg is right up the road.
posted by konolia at 12:28 PM on September 11, 2006
But then, Fort Bragg is right up the road.
posted by konolia at 12:28 PM on September 11, 2006
I've read that 9/11 thread many many many times. It should be a book. Somehow the pace, the shock, the fear, and the haphazard exposition of facts bring that day right back for me.
posted by originalname37 at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by originalname37 at 12:34 PM on September 11, 2006
I've been nursing a crush for awhile, but I am now officially in love with dejah420.
posted by Roommate at 12:41 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by Roommate at 12:41 PM on September 11, 2006
what would be really cool is if someone made a WTC Zombie movie... That way wecould mourn the dead, then they could rise and get their own revenge.
posted by evilgenius at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by evilgenius at 12:42 PM on September 11, 2006
what would be really cool is if someone made a WTC Zombie movie
It's New York. Nobody would notice a zombie. It takes a lot to draw a crowd here.
posted by jonmc at 12:44 PM on September 11, 2006
It's New York. Nobody would notice a zombie. It takes a lot to draw a crowd here.
posted by jonmc at 12:44 PM on September 11, 2006
what would be really cool is if someone made a WTC Zombie movie...
Do Iraq war casualties rising from the dead in order to vote out the current administration count?
posted by Roommate at 12:54 PM on September 11, 2006
Do Iraq war casualties rising from the dead in order to vote out the current administration count?
posted by Roommate at 12:54 PM on September 11, 2006
you'll all have to settle for the second sexiest being on the planet
*preens*
posted by quonsar at 12:56 PM on September 11, 2006
*preens*
posted by quonsar at 12:56 PM on September 11, 2006
Sonofsamiam: Xtians have certainly contributed to civilization, but fuck if they invented it.
posted by everichon at 12:56 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by everichon at 12:56 PM on September 11, 2006
Deja is right.
They should build the WTC centers EXACTLY like they were. Exactly. They should name them the same. And invite the same businesses back. The government should comp them the back rent for the time missed. And we should all shrug this fucking thing off like it was no big deal. Essentially send a big "Fuck You" to the forces of ignorance.
That is what Bush SHOULD have done.
He should have flown immediately back to the Whitehouse the second he heard. He should have called a press conference on the Whitehouse lawn. THAT's when he should have said "bring it on."
He should have phrased his address something like this:
"As I talk many of our fellow citizens have been struck tragically and unfairly from this life. Right now there are places in our nation in flames. There are buildings reduced to rubble. Right now people are in anguish over the loss of people they love.
But tomorrow we will go on. Tomorow we must go on. We will put out the flames. We will clear the rubble. Tomorrow we will be better people. We will build a better world. And we will be stronger. Tomorrow our tears will turn to resolve.
I stand here now, in my home, in YOUR home, to show you my fellow citizens that I am unafraid of the forces of ignorance that have done this terrible thing. I am here to show our misguided enemies that we are still free. And we shall remain so.
I am confident that we are better than they. I am confident tomorrow will come and this day will pass and we will be unafraid. And I hope that our example heals our enemies darkened heart from evil ignorance.
If I am struck down I know this Great and at times flawed Republic will go on and the principles for which it stand will go on and bring light and justice to the people of the planet earth.
You and I together. We will ease the suffering of the poor and the ill. We will stand by the weak. We will champion the oppressed. And each day forward from here on will be better than the one before. Better than today.
I have one message to those that dare think we are weak and afraid.
[flips off camera]
Thank you my fellow citizens. Now go back to living."
posted by tkchrist at 1:04 PM on September 11, 2006 [5 favorites]
They should build the WTC centers EXACTLY like they were. Exactly. They should name them the same. And invite the same businesses back. The government should comp them the back rent for the time missed. And we should all shrug this fucking thing off like it was no big deal. Essentially send a big "Fuck You" to the forces of ignorance.
That is what Bush SHOULD have done.
He should have flown immediately back to the Whitehouse the second he heard. He should have called a press conference on the Whitehouse lawn. THAT's when he should have said "bring it on."
He should have phrased his address something like this:
"As I talk many of our fellow citizens have been struck tragically and unfairly from this life. Right now there are places in our nation in flames. There are buildings reduced to rubble. Right now people are in anguish over the loss of people they love.
But tomorrow we will go on. Tomorow we must go on. We will put out the flames. We will clear the rubble. Tomorrow we will be better people. We will build a better world. And we will be stronger. Tomorrow our tears will turn to resolve.
I stand here now, in my home, in YOUR home, to show you my fellow citizens that I am unafraid of the forces of ignorance that have done this terrible thing. I am here to show our misguided enemies that we are still free. And we shall remain so.
I am confident that we are better than they. I am confident tomorrow will come and this day will pass and we will be unafraid. And I hope that our example heals our enemies darkened heart from evil ignorance.
If I am struck down I know this Great and at times flawed Republic will go on and the principles for which it stand will go on and bring light and justice to the people of the planet earth.
You and I together. We will ease the suffering of the poor and the ill. We will stand by the weak. We will champion the oppressed. And each day forward from here on will be better than the one before. Better than today.
I have one message to those that dare think we are weak and afraid.
[flips off camera]
Thank you my fellow citizens. Now go back to living."
posted by tkchrist at 1:04 PM on September 11, 2006 [5 favorites]
twistedonion writes "What irritates me about threads like this is that they seem to reinforce the notion that a westerners blood is worth so much more than some poor bastard from the third world."
thirteenkiller writes "I don't think anybody here thinks that."
40K+ user accounts and you really think not a single one of them thinks we should just glass over the middle east and let god sort it out?
dios writes "It's revolting to see people so self-absorbed in their politics that they can't even recognize when a discussion of their politics is inappropriate."
This whole thread is inappropriate, both in the metafilter sense and in the grand scheme of things.
chrominance writes "That's about 3000 periods, enough for every person who died in the attacks. I AM MORE HARDCORE AT REMEMBERING THAN YOU ALL"
Was it really 3000 people exactly who died in the WTC collapses? The media sure caught a break that it wasn't 3427 victims.
posted by Mitheral at 1:13 PM on September 11, 2006
thirteenkiller writes "I don't think anybody here thinks that."
40K+ user accounts and you really think not a single one of them thinks we should just glass over the middle east and let god sort it out?
dios writes "It's revolting to see people so self-absorbed in their politics that they can't even recognize when a discussion of their politics is inappropriate."
This whole thread is inappropriate, both in the metafilter sense and in the grand scheme of things.
chrominance writes "That's about 3000 periods, enough for every person who died in the attacks. I AM MORE HARDCORE AT REMEMBERING THAN YOU ALL"
Was it really 3000 people exactly who died in the WTC collapses? The media sure caught a break that it wasn't 3427 victims.
posted by Mitheral at 1:13 PM on September 11, 2006
everichon: I had hoped the sarcasm was heavy-handed enough to not require explication. My bad.
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:15 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 1:15 PM on September 11, 2006
you'll all have to settle for the second sexiest being on the planet
quonsar : *preens*
I meant Planet Earth, q.
posted by jonmc at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2006
quonsar : *preens*
I meant Planet Earth, q.
posted by jonmc at 1:17 PM on September 11, 2006
Ok, next year I will not give orders *makes mental note*
posted by wheelieman at 1:21 PM on September 11, 2006
posted by wheelieman at 1:21 PM on September 11, 2006
wheelieman: Too late. You RUINED 9/11!
posted by mazola at 1:22 PM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 1:22 PM on September 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
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posted by greedo at 5:36 AM on September 11, 2006