Sex slaves demand apology
February 15, 2007 6:36 PM Subscribe
Jan Ruff-O'Herne's idyllic childhood in Indonesia came to an abrupt end in 1942 when the Japanese invaded and forced her into sexual slavery. In this transcript she reveals her story; how she hid the secret from her children until she finally broke her silence in 1992 to demand an apology from the Japanese government. This week Ruff-O'Herne joins other former sex slaves in testimony before the US Congress as part of a resolution urging Japan to apologize. Japanese politicians are working to stop the resolution from passing.
It always confuses me how people keep demanding that Japan apologize for things it has already apologized for. In some cases, numerous times. But still this myth persists that Japan has not apologized for anything, or is otherwise unrepentant regarding the war.
posted by nightchrome at 7:17 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by nightchrome at 7:17 PM on February 15, 2007
So often people make the mistake of conflating their arguments in favor of Japanese apology with racism and ethnocentrism which greatly undermines any attempt at rational discussion.
And it really says something about the reliability of history and knowledge when people begin to talk about non-binding resolutions that would theoretically make a "government take historical responsibility" for something.
Interestingly, "On August 4, 1993, the Chief Cabinet Secretary expressed the Japanese Government’s sincere feelings of apology and remorse. After his Statement, the government and people of Japan searched for ways to offer atonement."
posted by Matt Oneiros at 7:41 PM on February 15, 2007
And it really says something about the reliability of history and knowledge when people begin to talk about non-binding resolutions that would theoretically make a "government take historical responsibility" for something.
Interestingly, "On August 4, 1993, the Chief Cabinet Secretary expressed the Japanese Government’s sincere feelings of apology and remorse. After his Statement, the government and people of Japan searched for ways to offer atonement."
posted by Matt Oneiros at 7:41 PM on February 15, 2007
Mr Honda's resolution calls on the Japanese prime minister to "formally and unambiguously apologise for, and acknowledge" the sexual enslavement of as many as 200,000 mainly Asian women by the imperial army in the 1930s and 40s.
I'm sorry... 200,000 women? That's something you could never apologize enough for.
Hopefully one day the US will apologize for all the Iraqi civilians killed during the current war. The days of rationalizing rape or murder for any purpose whatsoever are drawing to a close.
posted by crowman at 7:57 PM on February 15, 2007
I'm sorry... 200,000 women? That's something you could never apologize enough for.
Hopefully one day the US will apologize for all the Iraqi civilians killed during the current war. The days of rationalizing rape or murder for any purpose whatsoever are drawing to a close.
posted by crowman at 7:57 PM on February 15, 2007
2001. Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi (Also signed by all the prime ministers since 1995, including Ryutaro Hashimoto, Keizo Obuchi, Yoshiro Mori). "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women. We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we evade our responsibilities for the future. I believe that our country, painfully aware of its moral responsibilities, with feelings of apology and remorse, should face up squarely to its past history and accurately convey it to future generations" (Letter from Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi to the former comfort women. (Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan Web Site) Retrieved from [8].)posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:04 PM on February 15, 2007 [2 favorites]
I don't really see anything ambiguous there.
Japan also rejects accusations that it has done nothing to atone for its use of sex slaves. Since 1995 it has provided money, raised mainly through private donations, to about 300 women through the Asian Women's Fund. The women also received an unofficial letter of apology from the Japanese prime minister.
I hear they also spring for a box of hankies.
posted by dhartung at 8:05 PM on February 15, 2007
I hear they also spring for a box of hankies.
posted by dhartung at 8:05 PM on February 15, 2007
Further, if the number of victims is accurate and each women was raped only 10 times during her captivity, that's 2,000,000 rapes. I'd say a few hundred apologies wouldn't be too many.
posted by crowman at 8:08 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by crowman at 8:08 PM on February 15, 2007
The days of rationalizing rape or murder for any purpose whatsoever are drawing to a close.
Or not.
posted by taosbat at 8:08 PM on February 15, 2007
Or not.
posted by taosbat at 8:08 PM on February 15, 2007
The sick-making euphemism coined by Imperial Japan (see also: 'ethnic cleansing') that has currency is 'comfort women'. Estimates of their numbers vary (with the upper end being the quoted 200,000), and it is estimated that 80% of them were Korean.
Most of the women involved, of course, have died. Japan only officially recognized what had been done in 1991, and has claimed in the past that compensation paid in the 1960's for the imperial colonization of Korea in the first hald of the century pre-empted any further compensation to individual women who were enslaved for sexual purposes, but in 1995 did collect money and pay reparations to a total of 364 women in Taiwan, Korea and the Phillippines.
The issue remains one that spurs anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea, and is (in my personal opinion) a source of rage and shame (since Koreans have tended in the past to shy away from both dispassionate examination of 20th century history and frank discussion of sexual matters) that manifests itself in surprising depth of feeling about such ostensibly unimportant disputes as the 'Sea of Japan' vs. 'East Sea' nomenclature, or the territorial dispute over tiny, useless, Dok-Do/Takeshima.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:38 PM on February 15, 2007
Most of the women involved, of course, have died. Japan only officially recognized what had been done in 1991, and has claimed in the past that compensation paid in the 1960's for the imperial colonization of Korea in the first hald of the century pre-empted any further compensation to individual women who were enslaved for sexual purposes, but in 1995 did collect money and pay reparations to a total of 364 women in Taiwan, Korea and the Phillippines.
The issue remains one that spurs anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea, and is (in my personal opinion) a source of rage and shame (since Koreans have tended in the past to shy away from both dispassionate examination of 20th century history and frank discussion of sexual matters) that manifests itself in surprising depth of feeling about such ostensibly unimportant disputes as the 'Sea of Japan' vs. 'East Sea' nomenclature, or the territorial dispute over tiny, useless, Dok-Do/Takeshima.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:38 PM on February 15, 2007
stavros: But both Japan and South Korean governments consider all war-related issues to have been adequately resolved. Completely. It would seem to me that the people involved should be taking issue with their own government's premature (in their eyes) closure of the issue.
posted by nightchrome at 8:46 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by nightchrome at 8:46 PM on February 15, 2007
Also, I reckon apologies mean precisely jack shit.
Public apologies are even more meaningless in Korean and Japan than they are in the rest of the world. It is standard procedure for public figures to commit the most atrocious of violations of propriety or regulation or law, and issue a public apology and statement of contrition. The language used -- to think about one's mistakes -- is always pulled from the same script. Hell, even in private life, people are not pushed to make any kind of restitution when they fuck up, they are directed to think about what they've done. Because it is such a boilerplate, meaningless verbal gesture, it is dismissed for what it is worth, and everyone including the transgressor goes back to what they were doing before.
It's not insignificant that at the same time as formulaic apologies have been offered, government-sponsored textbooks in Japan are presenting a revisionist history minimizing Japanese responsibility and criminal acts during WWII.
It's reasonable to scratch one's head over the fact that these things happened more than half a century ago, but the wounds remain wide open, and it doesn't take much to get them oozing purulence again. Most people would rather forget (if not forgive), of course, but it's a living anger still.
On preview: But both Japan and South Korean governments consider all war-related issues to have been adequately resolved. Completely. It would seem to me that the people involved should be taking issue with their own government's premature (in their eyes) closure of the issue.
Well, no. The textbook issue is just one of many that neither the public nor the government of Korea consider 'adequately resolved'.
Regardless, from where I'm sitting, both the Korean and Japanese governments can suck it. The Korean government wants to appear as if they collectively possess a testicle between them while not encouraging the wild-eyed demagogues and finger-severing, molotov-throwing anti-Japanese contingent to start up with the demonstrations. They do not possess that testicle. It's bad for business, is the bottom line, and the occasional flare-up of what sounds like plain-speaking is the mouse flipping the bird at the elephant before scampering back under cover.
The Japanese, on the other hand: of course they want to close the book, and tell themselves and the world that they've atoned for their crimes, compensated the victims, and feel appropriate remorse. Anything else would be foolishness on their part, from a political perspective.
Look, a lot of resentment of Japan in a historical context has rubbed off on me from living so long in Korea. And although there is no excusing what was done to Korea in the first half of the last century (and the complicity of the Americans and others should not be forgotten or underestimated), the blame for the way in which this and other issues from that time are still alive, thrashing away deep in the individual and collective subconscious of the Korean people, lays squarely and fully on the heads of the politicians who ruled the place with an iron hand, and who created and perpetuated a culture of silence, fear, and deliberate suppression of anything but the most jingoistic historical analysis. They created the economic miracle that the country has become, but the scars left on the culture as a whole with be another half-century closing up and healing over, if Korea’s lucky. Then, of course, comes the next round when a whole new set of agonies begin with reunification (even if it’s peaceful) of North and South.
Though Noh Moo Hyun is by most measures an abject failure as president, it is under his administration that for the first time -- mark me, the first time in more than half a century -- that any real attempt to look clear-eyed at the past and attempt some stabs at truth and reconciliation have been undertaken. I think history will judge him on his success there, if for little else, and my hope is that his pushes in those directions, and his attempts to deconstruct the Prime Leader mentality, will take root.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:12 PM on February 15, 2007
Public apologies are even more meaningless in Korean and Japan than they are in the rest of the world. It is standard procedure for public figures to commit the most atrocious of violations of propriety or regulation or law, and issue a public apology and statement of contrition. The language used -- to think about one's mistakes -- is always pulled from the same script. Hell, even in private life, people are not pushed to make any kind of restitution when they fuck up, they are directed to think about what they've done. Because it is such a boilerplate, meaningless verbal gesture, it is dismissed for what it is worth, and everyone including the transgressor goes back to what they were doing before.
It's not insignificant that at the same time as formulaic apologies have been offered, government-sponsored textbooks in Japan are presenting a revisionist history minimizing Japanese responsibility and criminal acts during WWII.
It's reasonable to scratch one's head over the fact that these things happened more than half a century ago, but the wounds remain wide open, and it doesn't take much to get them oozing purulence again. Most people would rather forget (if not forgive), of course, but it's a living anger still.
On preview: But both Japan and South Korean governments consider all war-related issues to have been adequately resolved. Completely. It would seem to me that the people involved should be taking issue with their own government's premature (in their eyes) closure of the issue.
Well, no. The textbook issue is just one of many that neither the public nor the government of Korea consider 'adequately resolved'.
Regardless, from where I'm sitting, both the Korean and Japanese governments can suck it. The Korean government wants to appear as if they collectively possess a testicle between them while not encouraging the wild-eyed demagogues and finger-severing, molotov-throwing anti-Japanese contingent to start up with the demonstrations. They do not possess that testicle. It's bad for business, is the bottom line, and the occasional flare-up of what sounds like plain-speaking is the mouse flipping the bird at the elephant before scampering back under cover.
The Japanese, on the other hand: of course they want to close the book, and tell themselves and the world that they've atoned for their crimes, compensated the victims, and feel appropriate remorse. Anything else would be foolishness on their part, from a political perspective.
Look, a lot of resentment of Japan in a historical context has rubbed off on me from living so long in Korea. And although there is no excusing what was done to Korea in the first half of the last century (and the complicity of the Americans and others should not be forgotten or underestimated), the blame for the way in which this and other issues from that time are still alive, thrashing away deep in the individual and collective subconscious of the Korean people, lays squarely and fully on the heads of the politicians who ruled the place with an iron hand, and who created and perpetuated a culture of silence, fear, and deliberate suppression of anything but the most jingoistic historical analysis. They created the economic miracle that the country has become, but the scars left on the culture as a whole with be another half-century closing up and healing over, if Korea’s lucky. Then, of course, comes the next round when a whole new set of agonies begin with reunification (even if it’s peaceful) of North and South.
Though Noh Moo Hyun is by most measures an abject failure as president, it is under his administration that for the first time -- mark me, the first time in more than half a century -- that any real attempt to look clear-eyed at the past and attempt some stabs at truth and reconciliation have been undertaken. I think history will judge him on his success there, if for little else, and my hope is that his pushes in those directions, and his attempts to deconstruct the Prime Leader mentality, will take root.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:12 PM on February 15, 2007
My apologies: I just realized that was a total derail. Coffee bad.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:13 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:13 PM on February 15, 2007
"sorry for all the rape" just doesn't work for me either.
posted by cazoo at 9:14 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by cazoo at 9:14 PM on February 15, 2007
It would seem to me that the people involved should be taking issue with their own government's premature (in their eyes) closure of the issue.
Sorry, I was unclear. I agree with this, and, in fact, they are, to some extent. The region would be a much better place and a shiny, bright, happy future more likely if Koreans caned the living shit out of their politicians (both current and past) and the Japanese did the same, rather than glaring at each other across the straits.
Not gonna happen, though.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:25 PM on February 15, 2007
Sorry, I was unclear. I agree with this, and, in fact, they are, to some extent. The region would be a much better place and a shiny, bright, happy future more likely if Koreans caned the living shit out of their politicians (both current and past) and the Japanese did the same, rather than glaring at each other across the straits.
Not gonna happen, though.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:25 PM on February 15, 2007
"The Japanese, on the other hand: of course they want to close the book, and tell themselves and the world that they've atoned for their crimes, compensated the victims, and feel appropriate remorse."
I always find it interesting when people suggest all people of an ethnicity are anything. The Japanese do not move as a monolithic body on this matter, as I'm sure you know.
These are two governments, interacting, right?
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:47 PM on February 15, 2007
I always find it interesting when people suggest all people of an ethnicity are anything. The Japanese do not move as a monolithic body on this matter, as I'm sure you know.
These are two governments, interacting, right?
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:47 PM on February 15, 2007
Oh fucking duh. Spare me your overweening condescension. In the context, is it not sufficiently clear that I meant 'the Japanese government' as a parallel construction to the way I started the previous paragraph?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:52 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:52 PM on February 15, 2007
I think you mean Roh Moo Hyun, stav.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 10:03 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 10:03 PM on February 15, 2007
From what I've read about this current thing with three women talking to the US Congress (no offence but doesn't the US Congress have far better things to be doing right about now?), it seems that the women acknowledge that there have been apologies and they rejected those apologies because they did not come with financial compensation.
Now, I am not saying these people don't deserve something for what they've been through, nor am I saying the government doesn't need to do something beyond just saying sorry. But rejecting an apology because you want some cash is something I can't really muster a lot of emotion over.
posted by nightchrome at 10:06 PM on February 15, 2007
Now, I am not saying these people don't deserve something for what they've been through, nor am I saying the government doesn't need to do something beyond just saying sorry. But rejecting an apology because you want some cash is something I can't really muster a lot of emotion over.
posted by nightchrome at 10:06 PM on February 15, 2007
I think you mean Roh Moo Hyun, stav.
Nah, there are precisely zero people in Korea with the surname 'Roh'. It is an artifact of the tendency towards random, wacky romanization of Korean (particularly with names) in tandem with some odd ideas of what foreigners will find readable (and it infuriates me no end) that his surname is romanized as 'Roh'.
His name is 노 무 현. The first character 'ㄴ', niun, is precisely the English 'n' when it begins a syllable (except in some rare cases where the preceeding syllable ends with 'ㄹ').
His surname name is 'Noh'. Presumably the preference exists so it doesn't sound like "no", which I reckon would be pretty cool in a Bondian kind of way, particularly if you're a doctor, but there you go.
Similar goofy things happen with the surname 이 (pronounced 'Eee' but variously romanized as Lee or Rhee) and 우 (pronounced 'Ooo' but usually romanized Woo). The wild variation in romanization is a thorny issue, and makes (to pick an example) using Google or any other search engine to find English-language information on Korea nearly impossible.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:17 PM on February 15, 2007
Nah, there are precisely zero people in Korea with the surname 'Roh'. It is an artifact of the tendency towards random, wacky romanization of Korean (particularly with names) in tandem with some odd ideas of what foreigners will find readable (and it infuriates me no end) that his surname is romanized as 'Roh'.
His name is 노 무 현. The first character 'ㄴ', niun, is precisely the English 'n' when it begins a syllable (except in some rare cases where the preceeding syllable ends with 'ㄹ').
His surname name is 'Noh'. Presumably the preference exists so it doesn't sound like "no", which I reckon would be pretty cool in a Bondian kind of way, particularly if you're a doctor, but there you go.
Similar goofy things happen with the surname 이 (pronounced 'Eee' but variously romanized as Lee or Rhee) and 우 (pronounced 'Ooo' but usually romanized Woo). The wild variation in romanization is a thorny issue, and makes (to pick an example) using Google or any other search engine to find English-language information on Korea nearly impossible.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:17 PM on February 15, 2007
Further, according to the current government-recommend romanization, his name in the English alphabet would be Noh Mu Hyeon.
Go figure.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:23 PM on February 15, 2007
Go figure.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:23 PM on February 15, 2007
Damn, sorry, even I get messed up: No Mu Hyeon.
(And I'm really really sorry for totally derailing this. I'll try and shut up now.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:24 PM on February 15, 2007
(And I'm really really sorry for totally derailing this. I'll try and shut up now.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:24 PM on February 15, 2007
Please don't. I enjoy hearing about the experiences of other westerners living in Asia on a longterm basis, and given that we're on "opposing" sides of this issue it's good for me to see stuff that challenges my own absorbed bias.
posted by nightchrome at 10:46 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by nightchrome at 10:46 PM on February 15, 2007
It's not insignificant that at the same time as formulaic apologies have been offered, government-sponsored textbooks in Japan are presenting a revisionist history minimizing Japanese responsibility and criminal acts during WWII.
It should be noted that these textbooks were from just one prefecture in Japan, and were actually never used. A far cry from insinuating that they are currently used all over the country.
posted by zardoz at 10:49 PM on February 15, 2007
It should be noted that these textbooks were from just one prefecture in Japan, and were actually never used. A far cry from insinuating that they are currently used all over the country.
posted by zardoz at 10:49 PM on February 15, 2007
It should also be noted that I meant "opposing sides" as in "nations", not as in "I think they are wrong".
posted by nightchrome at 10:52 PM on February 15, 2007
posted by nightchrome at 10:52 PM on February 15, 2007
zardoz: You're correct that the books are not widely used, happily. I did not intend such an insinuation, and apologize if that's the impression I gave. Another editing pass might have cleared things up.
It's political gamesmanship, and cheap rabble-rousing. Again, I was excoriating the political 'leadership' in both countries. The education system (in Korea at least; I can't speak for Japan) suffers from enough indoctrination and incompetence without the added freight of political hot-potato tossing.
nightchrome: Sadly, I think almost everybody's wrong in this game. The mud and filth of unpleasant history still clings to everyone's boots over here (as in so many places in the world), and politicians are almost always overeager to dredge it up and exploit it.
Me, I like Korean folks and Japanese folks, but the legacy of resentment and anger is corrosive. Sunlight, as they say, is the best disinfectant.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:01 PM on February 15, 2007
It's political gamesmanship, and cheap rabble-rousing. Again, I was excoriating the political 'leadership' in both countries. The education system (in Korea at least; I can't speak for Japan) suffers from enough indoctrination and incompetence without the added freight of political hot-potato tossing.
nightchrome: Sadly, I think almost everybody's wrong in this game. The mud and filth of unpleasant history still clings to everyone's boots over here (as in so many places in the world), and politicians are almost always overeager to dredge it up and exploit it.
Me, I like Korean folks and Japanese folks, but the legacy of resentment and anger is corrosive. Sunlight, as they say, is the best disinfectant.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:01 PM on February 15, 2007
Yes, it is always unfortunate when you have two friends you really like but who despise one another. Not much you can do about it.
I've got one friend who is descended from Koreans brought over as forced labor (aka slaves) during the war. Another friend is related to someone who got abducted by that other Korea. Both sides blame an entire "race" for their problems. All I can do is keep my mouth shut.
posted by nightchrome at 11:09 PM on February 15, 2007
I've got one friend who is descended from Koreans brought over as forced labor (aka slaves) during the war. Another friend is related to someone who got abducted by that other Korea. Both sides blame an entire "race" for their problems. All I can do is keep my mouth shut.
posted by nightchrome at 11:09 PM on February 15, 2007
What I don't understand is why doesn't Japan just go up and make a big apology and give out a couple 10s of millions of dollars or even more. It would be cheap in the long run even if it only slightly tampered down the rising nationalism in China. But even though I've lived in China for about 3 years I still don't really understand face (all I can make out is that if someone has lots of money you give him respect), and everyone says this is a face issue. It would just be so easy for them to apologise and give out some money and it would be the right thing to do.
If I were Japanese, I would be scared shitless by the Chinese. The anti-Japanese sentiment in China still shocks me to this day. Every time I go out to a bar, or start a random conversation with a vendor on the street, they will make some remark about how China and America are friends, but then they almost always throw in the seeming non-sequitur that they hate Japan. It's a knee jerk response and I've seen it in everyone from migrant workers to Professionals who went to school overseas.
As I said above, Japan should apologize and offer reparations because it is the right thing to do, but it would also be in their best interest.
[Japan] really has little to say here. Their access to the US market is critical to their economy. And their ability to act as a counter-weight to the Chinese becomes more insignificant by the day.
Why is this true? China is equally if not more tied to the US market than Japan is, and Japan's economy has been much better in the past couple of years. Simply because China is growing very fast does not mean that Japan is weakening at the same time. From a purely economic standpoint, Japan and China are very compatible and would greatly profit from increased trade.
posted by afu at 2:49 AM on February 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
If I were Japanese, I would be scared shitless by the Chinese. The anti-Japanese sentiment in China still shocks me to this day. Every time I go out to a bar, or start a random conversation with a vendor on the street, they will make some remark about how China and America are friends, but then they almost always throw in the seeming non-sequitur that they hate Japan. It's a knee jerk response and I've seen it in everyone from migrant workers to Professionals who went to school overseas.
As I said above, Japan should apologize and offer reparations because it is the right thing to do, but it would also be in their best interest.
[Japan] really has little to say here. Their access to the US market is critical to their economy. And their ability to act as a counter-weight to the Chinese becomes more insignificant by the day.
Why is this true? China is equally if not more tied to the US market than Japan is, and Japan's economy has been much better in the past couple of years. Simply because China is growing very fast does not mean that Japan is weakening at the same time. From a purely economic standpoint, Japan and China are very compatible and would greatly profit from increased trade.
posted by afu at 2:49 AM on February 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
[Japan] really has little to say here. Their access to the US market is critical to their economy. And their ability to act as a counter-weight to the Chinese becomes more insignificant by the day.
It's true not because Japan's economy is shrinking but because the US trade imbalance with Japan's closed markets makes them far more dependent on the US than vice versa, so the US has ample leverage here. And China's (and Korea's and the rest of Asia's) growing economic strength makes Japan's former prestige as a capitalist ally in a communist-dominated region less meaningful all the time.
posted by crowman at 3:15 AM on February 16, 2007
It's true not because Japan's economy is shrinking but because the US trade imbalance with Japan's closed markets makes them far more dependent on the US than vice versa, so the US has ample leverage here. And China's (and Korea's and the rest of Asia's) growing economic strength makes Japan's former prestige as a capitalist ally in a communist-dominated region less meaningful all the time.
posted by crowman at 3:15 AM on February 16, 2007
I woulld like to apologise on behalf of the scottish nation for exporting whisky to stavs house in korea, which has resulted in untold threads being derailed and the horrific loss of many interesting subjects - I would also like to apologise for the career of ewan macgregor and the fact that it always rains in Oban.
I feel so humble now.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:16 AM on February 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
I feel so humble now.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:16 AM on February 16, 2007 [1 favorite]
from where I'm sitting, both the Korean and Japanese governments can suck it
Well I really can't see how finishing up with oral sex makes rape less of a crime.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:55 AM on February 16, 2007
Well I really can't see how finishing up with oral sex makes rape less of a crime.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:55 AM on February 16, 2007
One thing I've always respected about the Germans I knew is that when the subject of Big Mistake #2 came up, they seemed to have this almost lyrical sense of collective shame about it and didn't try to shy away from it or minimize it. I'm totally with cazoo on this one, and while I don't want to see rending of garment and gnashing of teeth, it'd be helpful if the Js were a little more matter-of-fact about what their forebears did. We USians at least admit to the Trail of Tears and nisei internment, and there'll be some coming-to-Jayzus about Iraq too -- the Js aren't even to that point.
Louis Brandeis was right: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
posted by pax digita at 5:58 AM on February 16, 2007
Louis Brandeis was right: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
posted by pax digita at 5:58 AM on February 16, 2007
pax digita, all the Japanese people i've met seem equally embarrassed by WWII the few times it has come up in conversation. (These were exchange students, so maybe the fact they wanted to fly out to Canada to study makes them less typical.) I also find a lot of art and cinema to come out of Japan post WWII is veyr much anti-war, if that counts for anything.
posted by chunking express at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2007
posted by chunking express at 7:26 AM on February 16, 2007
I imagine that whole atom-bomb incident might have coloured their thinking, too.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:06 AM on February 16, 2007
posted by the quidnunc kid at 10:06 AM on February 16, 2007
The interesting thing about that Wikipedia thread of Japanese apologies is that there was a long period during which the effects of rape were described as "stains on the honor and dignity" of the women who had been abused. And it's about so much more than honor or dignity. There are physical wounds, emotional wounds, wounds so deep no one should ever have to live with them.
The 2001 apology referenced above ("As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.") seems to be the only one from this decade to really address those issues. It seems that, with the dawn of a new century, Japan has attempted to leave behind the memories of what happened in their past, and even after 100 years have passed this should be remembered.
posted by brina at 12:50 PM on February 16, 2007
The 2001 apology referenced above ("As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.") seems to be the only one from this decade to really address those issues. It seems that, with the dawn of a new century, Japan has attempted to leave behind the memories of what happened in their past, and even after 100 years have passed this should be remembered.
posted by brina at 12:50 PM on February 16, 2007
it'd be helpful if the Js were a little more matter-of-fact about what their forebears did. We USians at least admit to the Trail of Tears and nisei internment, and there'll be some coming-to-Jayzus about Iraq too -- the Js aren't even to that point.
But they are at that point. These issues (Rape of Nanking, sex slaves, etc etc) are discussed openly on TV, in newspapers, and listed in textbooks. I was reading a Japanese junior high school history text yesterday, one that had maybe 200 pages for the whole of history (since it was only a supplementary text) and even it had a paragraph with photo about the massacre in Nanking. The idea that Japan is somehow "minimizing" these issues is, quite frankly, bizarre. Maybe it seems that way from the outside, when compared to the way the West does things, but if you look at the apologies, the Asian Women's Fund, textbook reform, etc. in terms of Japanese culture, the Japanese have done plenty to expose this issue. Especially over the last 20 years, Japan has made real steps to confront history.
What I don't understand is why doesn't Japan just go up and make a big apology and give out a couple 10s of millions of dollars or even more.
First of all, it would accomplish nothing. The anti-Japanese sentiment in China is continually being stirred up by the government there, partly in order to distract the people from domestic issues. Given that he already lives in an atmosphere of hatred for Japan, the average Chinese guy on the street is not going to suddenly start loving the country, no matter how much Japan apologizes and how much they pay. Also, a lot of tough domestic politics surround this issue in Japan. A lot of the old right-wing assholes are still alive and still holding power and/or influence, which makes this issue much more politically complicated than "why don't we just apologize".
In addition, many Japanese feel (and rightfully so, IMHO) that they've already done plenty to atone for their atrocities, and doing so didn't change relations with China or Korea one bit. For instance, Japan lost all foreign territory after the war. They gave China alone about 14 billion dollars worth of assets in the Treaty of San Francisco -- and that's not counting money given in other agreements, or the reparations made directly to the sex slaves in recent years via the Women's Fund. After the war, Korea got around 4 billion dollars from Japan, Indonesia got 200 million, etc. In light of this, it seems to me that reasonable reparations have already been made... certainly enough to allow each nation to help the former sex slaves themselves, rather than using them as a political bargaining chip against Japan.
posted by vorfeed at 12:58 PM on February 16, 2007
But they are at that point. These issues (Rape of Nanking, sex slaves, etc etc) are discussed openly on TV, in newspapers, and listed in textbooks. I was reading a Japanese junior high school history text yesterday, one that had maybe 200 pages for the whole of history (since it was only a supplementary text) and even it had a paragraph with photo about the massacre in Nanking. The idea that Japan is somehow "minimizing" these issues is, quite frankly, bizarre. Maybe it seems that way from the outside, when compared to the way the West does things, but if you look at the apologies, the Asian Women's Fund, textbook reform, etc. in terms of Japanese culture, the Japanese have done plenty to expose this issue. Especially over the last 20 years, Japan has made real steps to confront history.
What I don't understand is why doesn't Japan just go up and make a big apology and give out a couple 10s of millions of dollars or even more.
First of all, it would accomplish nothing. The anti-Japanese sentiment in China is continually being stirred up by the government there, partly in order to distract the people from domestic issues. Given that he already lives in an atmosphere of hatred for Japan, the average Chinese guy on the street is not going to suddenly start loving the country, no matter how much Japan apologizes and how much they pay. Also, a lot of tough domestic politics surround this issue in Japan. A lot of the old right-wing assholes are still alive and still holding power and/or influence, which makes this issue much more politically complicated than "why don't we just apologize".
In addition, many Japanese feel (and rightfully so, IMHO) that they've already done plenty to atone for their atrocities, and doing so didn't change relations with China or Korea one bit. For instance, Japan lost all foreign territory after the war. They gave China alone about 14 billion dollars worth of assets in the Treaty of San Francisco -- and that's not counting money given in other agreements, or the reparations made directly to the sex slaves in recent years via the Women's Fund. After the war, Korea got around 4 billion dollars from Japan, Indonesia got 200 million, etc. In light of this, it seems to me that reasonable reparations have already been made... certainly enough to allow each nation to help the former sex slaves themselves, rather than using them as a political bargaining chip against Japan.
posted by vorfeed at 12:58 PM on February 16, 2007
Japan really needs to acknowledge what they did in the past.
posted by delmoi at 3:41 PM on February 16, 2007
posted by delmoi at 3:41 PM on February 16, 2007
Also, U.S. service members forced into slave labor during the war received nothing.
posted by delmoi at 3:43 PM on February 16, 2007
posted by delmoi at 3:43 PM on February 16, 2007
delmoi : "Japan really needs to acknowledge what they did in the past."
I think you borked your grammar. "Needs" is present tense, "needed" is past tense. Since Japan has already acknowledged it, the grammatically correct sentence would be "Japan really needed to acknowledge what they did in the past". Whether or not their acknowledgement or apologies are sufficient is a point of debate, but the fact that they have acknowledged and apologized isn't.
posted by Bugbread at 4:02 PM on February 16, 2007
I think you borked your grammar. "Needs" is present tense, "needed" is past tense. Since Japan has already acknowledged it, the grammatically correct sentence would be "Japan really needed to acknowledge what they did in the past". Whether or not their acknowledgement or apologies are sufficient is a point of debate, but the fact that they have acknowledged and apologized isn't.
posted by Bugbread at 4:02 PM on February 16, 2007
South Korea has criticised the Japanese prime minister for questioning whether women were forced to become sex slaves by Japan's army during World War II.
posted by homunculus at 12:27 AM on March 3, 2007
posted by homunculus at 12:27 AM on March 3, 2007
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They really have little to say here. Their access to the US market is critical to their economy. And their ability to act as a counter-weight to the Chinese becomes more insignificant by the day.
I hope the US takes the high road on this one if human rights means anything other than the usual lip service. Let these women die in peace.
posted by crowman at 7:07 PM on February 15, 2007