Closure in the Reiser case
June 9, 2008 10:58 AM Subscribe
Years ago we discussed the news that open source software developer Hans Reiser had been accused of murdering his wife. More recently we discussed the guilty verdict handed down in his trial. Today, Wired is reporting that Reiser, who had maintained his innocence throughout his arrest and trial, may reveal the location of his wife's body in exchange for a reduction in his sentence.
Reiser had taken the stand to argue for his innocence, adopting a defense that his guilty-sounding behavior was explained by his unusually high intelligence and lack of conventional social skills. The prosecution was unable to produce a body. Taken together, these facts resulted in a degree of uncertainty which led some here to argue that Reiser was ill-served by the justice system. Today's news of a confession, if true, would eliminate that uncertainty.
Reiser had taken the stand to argue for his innocence, adopting a defense that his guilty-sounding behavior was explained by his unusually high intelligence and lack of conventional social skills. The prosecution was unable to produce a body. Taken together, these facts resulted in a degree of uncertainty which led some here to argue that Reiser was ill-served by the justice system. Today's news of a confession, if true, would eliminate that uncertainty.
This post was deleted for the following reason: let's wait until he actually confesses instead of making a post about speculation beforehand. -- mathowie
this post will be deleted because: premature speculation filter. Try again after he actually confesses.
posted by wendell at 11:04 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by wendell at 11:04 AM on June 9, 2008
THE REAL KILLER(S) IS(ARE) STILL OUT THERE!
Stop libeling this man's good name! Don't you know that open source developers are sacrosanct, pure as the driven snow!
posted by wfrgms at 11:07 AM on June 9, 2008
Stop libeling this man's good name! Don't you know that open source developers are sacrosanct, pure as the driven snow!
posted by wfrgms at 11:07 AM on June 9, 2008
This will end with a revelation as to the location of the thread's body.
posted by DU at 11:10 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by DU at 11:10 AM on June 9, 2008
this post will be deleted because: premature speculation filter. Try again after he actually confesses.
posted by wendell at 2:04 PM on June 9
If the article is correct that "there have been some overtures" that he "might disclose the location of Nina Reiser's body in exchange for a reduced term", that's an admission that he at least knows the location of her body. Which given the circumstances is a tacit admission of guilt.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:11 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by wendell at 2:04 PM on June 9
If the article is correct that "there have been some overtures" that he "might disclose the location of Nina Reiser's body in exchange for a reduced term", that's an admission that he at least knows the location of her body. Which given the circumstances is a tacit admission of guilt.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:11 AM on June 9, 2008
Try again after he actually confesses.
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:13 AM on June 9, 2008
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:13 AM on June 9, 2008
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?Of course it is. After all, he might just be saying he's willing to write a program that will figure out where the body is.
posted by Flunkie at 11:15 AM on June 9, 2008
He may not know where the body is, but I'm sure it's in the journal, so it won't take any time to restore the information.
posted by rusty at 11:17 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by rusty at 11:17 AM on June 9, 2008
Yes. Let's all crack jokes and show how clever we are about a man's murdered wife. A wife who bore this man children. Children who no longer have a mother. That fuckin' shit's hilaaaarious!
posted by basicchannel at 11:20 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by basicchannel at 11:20 AM on June 9, 2008
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?As a non-programmer with social skills, you can't possibly understand why a man would stumble across his dead wife's body, hide it in the woods, and pretend it never happened. But there's a perfectly logical explanation...
posted by verb at 11:22 AM on June 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Yes. Let's all crack jokes and show how clever we are about a man's murdered wife. A wife who bore this man children. Children who no longer have a mother. That fuckin' shit's hilaaaarious!
Your right. THE CHILDREN ARE THE REAL KILLERS!
posted by wfrgms at 11:23 AM on June 9, 2008
Your right. THE CHILDREN ARE THE REAL KILLERS!
posted by wfrgms at 11:23 AM on June 9, 2008
I was fascinated by the strange response from the tech community to his sentence of guilt, as if he had been railroaded for being a programmer. Strange.
I agree, but (charitably) for many of the tech / geek community, it may have been the first time they actually paid attention to the details of such a case. Many seemed to be outraged that he could be charged without a smoking gun or corpse, oblivious to the fact that this happens all the time to people that they don't notice.
In short: never attribute to malice what can be blamed on tunnel vision.
posted by outlier at 11:23 AM on June 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I agree, but (charitably) for many of the tech / geek community, it may have been the first time they actually paid attention to the details of such a case. Many seemed to be outraged that he could be charged without a smoking gun or corpse, oblivious to the fact that this happens all the time to people that they don't notice.
In short: never attribute to malice what can be blamed on tunnel vision.
posted by outlier at 11:23 AM on June 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was fascinated by the strange response from the tech community to his sentence of guilt, as if he had been railroaded for being a programmer.
I don't see evidence that the tech community is especially objective. One of their own was under attack, so they reacted defensively. I'll admit that I was much more skeptical of the guilty verdict than I should have been.
Brilliant as he was, apparently Hans wasn't psychopathic enough to fool a jury. Or smart enough to listen to his lawyer.
posted by yath at 11:25 AM on June 9, 2008
I don't see evidence that the tech community is especially objective. One of their own was under attack, so they reacted defensively. I'll admit that I was much more skeptical of the guilty verdict than I should have been.
Brilliant as he was, apparently Hans wasn't psychopathic enough to fool a jury. Or smart enough to listen to his lawyer.
posted by yath at 11:25 AM on June 9, 2008
Yes. Let's all crack jokes and show how clever we are about a man's murdered wife. A wife who bore this man children. Children who no longer have a mother. That fuckin' shit's hilaaaarious!
posted by basicchannel at 2:20 PM on June 9
To be specific, it isn't her murder that is hilarious, it's Reiser's Marx Brothers antics and arguments after the fact that are hilarious.
And to quiet your indignation: "The boy, in letters to his father last year, asked his dad why he "hid" his mother." Reiser is the insensitive asshole here, not us.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:26 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by basicchannel at 2:20 PM on June 9
To be specific, it isn't her murder that is hilarious, it's Reiser's Marx Brothers antics and arguments after the fact that are hilarious.
And to quiet your indignation: "The boy, in letters to his father last year, asked his dad why he "hid" his mother." Reiser is the insensitive asshole here, not us.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:26 AM on June 9, 2008
I was fascinated by the strange response from the tech community to his sentence of guilt, as if he had been railroaded for being a programmer. Strange.
Really? That's certainly not the sense I got around here, I don't read slashdot or digg. Were people really rallying around him?
posted by delmoi at 11:29 AM on June 9, 2008
Really? That's certainly not the sense I got around here, I don't read slashdot or digg. Were people really rallying around him?
posted by delmoi at 11:29 AM on June 9, 2008
Yes. Let's all crack jokes and show how clever we are about a man's murdered wife. A wife who bore this man children. Children who no longer have a mother. That fuckin' shit's hilaaaarious!
Luckily, now that you've decided to deride people for not being respectful enough, the children live in a world of lemondrops and lollipops. And it's all thanks to you.
posted by splice at 11:35 AM on June 9, 2008
Luckily, now that you've decided to deride people for not being respectful enough, the children live in a world of lemondrops and lollipops. And it's all thanks to you.
posted by splice at 11:35 AM on June 9, 2008
...adopting a defense that his guilty-sounding behavior was explained by his unusually high intelligence...
But the police know better; that's why they arrest so many dumb, innocent guys.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:37 AM on June 9, 2008
But the police know better; that's why they arrest so many dumb, innocent guys.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:37 AM on June 9, 2008
So when he produces the body [online], everyone who rallied round him [online] will be embarrassed into apologizing [online]?
Because nobody, and I mean NOBODY, wants to be wrong [online].
posted by jsavimbi at 11:38 AM on June 9, 2008
Because nobody, and I mean NOBODY, wants to be wrong [online].
posted by jsavimbi at 11:38 AM on June 9, 2008
It's hard to imagine that he could manage to botch a defence that required only reasonable doubt when his wife was having an affair with a confessed serial killer.
posted by mhoye at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 11:43 AM on June 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
I wonder if that plea deal includes an agreement to not prosecute Reiser for perjury. What a crock. This story deserves skepticism if only because it seems highly unlikely that the prosecution would even consider this deal.
posted by spiderwire at 11:44 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by spiderwire at 11:44 AM on June 9, 2008
In short: never attribute to malice what can be blamed on tunnel vision.
Yeah, it's weird. When I first read about this my initial reaction was "No way did he do it!", which was based on exactly, uh, nothing.
After I read all the details of the case I switched my view, because the dude is pretty clearly guilty if the evidence is as stated (big caveat). But it's odd that my first response was to jump to his innocence just because I think journaling filesystems are awesome.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:45 AM on June 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it's weird. When I first read about this my initial reaction was "No way did he do it!", which was based on exactly, uh, nothing.
After I read all the details of the case I switched my view, because the dude is pretty clearly guilty if the evidence is as stated (big caveat). But it's odd that my first response was to jump to his innocence just because I think journaling filesystems are awesome.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:45 AM on June 9, 2008 [3 favorites]
I wonder if that plea deal includes an agreement to not prosecute Reiser for perjury.
A perjury charge? The guy already is in for murder 1. I don't think it's worth reprosecuting the guy at this stage.
posted by aspo at 11:49 AM on June 9, 2008
A perjury charge? The guy already is in for murder 1. I don't think it's worth reprosecuting the guy at this stage.
posted by aspo at 11:49 AM on June 9, 2008
as if he had been railroaded for being a programmer.
You won't find me wearing a "Free Hans!" T-shirt soon, but that doesn't stop me from feeling uneasy about some aspects of the case. Among them are wondering how his lack of social skills (possibly Asperger's) might have tinted perceptions in the courtroom, the fact there was at least one other ready suspect available (Sturgeon), and that much of the case against him really seems to add up to the fact that he's (a) the classic suspect for domestic violence and (b) he has been observed doing odd things around that time.
Were people really rallying around him?
I think a number of programmers feel uneasy about that last part in particular, being a demographic composed of people who've likely been framed as odd for much of their lives. And as a person who's had some near-ridiculous recent encounters with the police over some rather normal activities they considered odd, it's extra easy for me to sympathize.
Of course, most programmers don't have a missing, apparently dead ex.
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?
As the folks on Slashdot have already noted, this story is about the prosecution's statements, which may be an accurate assessment of Reiser's position or may be part of the prosecution game. I don't believe there are any statements from the defense yet.
If Reiser does offer a location, that lays most of the lingering questions about his guilt to rest, other than some rather slim possibilities (i.e., Sturgeon did it and Reiser got the location from him). If he doesn't, it's not really clear what the bargaining says at all.
posted by weston at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2008
You won't find me wearing a "Free Hans!" T-shirt soon, but that doesn't stop me from feeling uneasy about some aspects of the case. Among them are wondering how his lack of social skills (possibly Asperger's) might have tinted perceptions in the courtroom, the fact there was at least one other ready suspect available (Sturgeon), and that much of the case against him really seems to add up to the fact that he's (a) the classic suspect for domestic violence and (b) he has been observed doing odd things around that time.
Were people really rallying around him?
I think a number of programmers feel uneasy about that last part in particular, being a demographic composed of people who've likely been framed as odd for much of their lives. And as a person who's had some near-ridiculous recent encounters with the police over some rather normal activities they considered odd, it's extra easy for me to sympathize.
Of course, most programmers don't have a missing, apparently dead ex.
Is it really speculation if the bargaining over locating the body is now on public record?
As the folks on Slashdot have already noted, this story is about the prosecution's statements, which may be an accurate assessment of Reiser's position or may be part of the prosecution game. I don't believe there are any statements from the defense yet.
If Reiser does offer a location, that lays most of the lingering questions about his guilt to rest, other than some rather slim possibilities (i.e., Sturgeon did it and Reiser got the location from him). If he doesn't, it's not really clear what the bargaining says at all.
posted by weston at 11:50 AM on June 9, 2008
This case serves as a inkblot test for the techies. We don't want to believe he did it. Nerds are non-violent, we use our brains to win. It's not that he's guilty, it's that the norms *cough* just don't get his dearth of social skills style. He's brilliant, not arrogant. He lives in a abstract, virtual world of dancing B+trees, and therefore would not do something so grossly physical as a bloody murder and disposal of a corpse.
Hans Reiser is the OJ Simpson for geeks.
posted by adipocere at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2008
Hans Reiser is the OJ Simpson for geeks.
posted by adipocere at 11:53 AM on June 9, 2008
I think a number of programmers feel uneasy about that last part in particular, being a demographic composed of people who've likely been framed as odd for much of their lives.
I understand this, but I also think that many female programmers, being in a demographic composed of people who often are targets of intimate partner violence, may have had a different reaction.
posted by transona5 at 11:55 AM on June 9, 2008
I understand this, but I also think that many female programmers, being in a demographic composed of people who often are targets of intimate partner violence, may have had a different reaction.
posted by transona5 at 11:55 AM on June 9, 2008
I didn't get the impression that the initial slashdot coverage rallied around him. I remember stories about him being extremely difficult to work with and having flameouts with rival developers.
posted by condour75 at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2008
posted by condour75 at 11:57 AM on June 9, 2008
I wonder if that plea deal includes an agreement to not prosecute Reiser for perjury.
IANAL, but, um, 5th amendment???
posted by gsteff at 12:04 PM on June 9, 2008
IANAL, but, um, 5th amendment???
posted by gsteff at 12:04 PM on June 9, 2008
Blazecock Pileon: Initially I thought that he was being railroaded, but that's because of crappy reporting. Prior to the trial, I read several articles that I recall said that he'd bought the books on how law enforcement examines crimes *after* he was already being investigated (when apparently after the trial it was reported that he bought the books before (If I were being investigated, I'd surely do research)). There was mention of a small amount of her blood in his car (I know of one blood stain in my car belonging to my wife, and one already that belongs to one of my kids), but nothing about the missing passenger seat, and nothing about the fact that the car was flooded despite his assertions that he was sleeping in the car. That combined with the crackpot boyfriend, made the investigation seem quite questionable.
If I had read the post-trial reporting pre-trial I'd never have thought he was being inappropriately charged.
posted by nobeagle at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2008
If I had read the post-trial reporting pre-trial I'd never have thought he was being inappropriately charged.
posted by nobeagle at 12:05 PM on June 9, 2008
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posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:03 AM on June 9, 2008