You say you want a revolution
July 19, 2009 12:19 PM Subscribe
Free Republic founder calls for overthrow of US. Free Republic founder Jim Robinson has posted a draft manifesto calling for the overthrow of the United States government, the ouster of the President, Vice President, all members of Congress, the repeal of the 16th & 17th Amendments, defunding Social Security into private accounts held by individual citizens, handing ownership of all Federal properties outside Washington DC to the states those properties are inside and a number of other measures, all to be enacted by a mass march of millions of citizens upon Washington DC and simply demanding it happen. That is all.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Eh, I'm not sure this is anything that's worth a post on mefi's front page, and freep links in general don't make very successful front page material in general. -- cortex
Even a post to metafilter is too much press for this guy.
posted by 517 at 12:23 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by 517 at 12:23 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
"MAN, THIS HOMELAND SECURITY REPORT WARNING ABOUT RIGHT-WING AGITATION AND VIOLENCE IS TOTALLY UNFOUNDED"
*goes on blog, calls for overthrow of federal government*
*gets orange cheeto grit all over manga*
posted by Damn That Television at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2009 [10 favorites]
*goes on blog, calls for overthrow of federal government*
*gets orange cheeto grit all over manga*
posted by Damn That Television at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2009 [10 favorites]
The government is no longer responsive to we the People. They have stretched and shredded the constitution to the point that they have illegally seized for themselves virtually unlimited powers over the citizens and act as if we have no rights and no powers of our own. They are acting without our consent.
Yeah, yeah. Where the hell were they five years ago, huh?
posted by jokeefe at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2009 [9 favorites]
Yeah, yeah. Where the hell were they five years ago, huh?
posted by jokeefe at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2009 [9 favorites]
On second thought-- not the best of the web, and they don't deserve the attention, agreed.
posted by jokeefe at 12:25 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by jokeefe at 12:25 PM on July 19, 2009
Just imagine how batshitinsane the guy and his screed might be if we had actual liberals in-charge. Woo!
posted by Thorzdad at 12:26 PM on July 19, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 12:26 PM on July 19, 2009 [6 favorites]
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; orposted by Kirth Gerson at 12:28 PM on July 19, 2009 [11 favorites]
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
I wonder what color the sky is on his planet.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009
Don't you GET IT. He wants to overthrow the government installed after the silent SOROS COUP and put in its place a true-blooded DEMOCRACY. YOU are the traitor!
posted by billysumday at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by billysumday at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah good luck with that.
Just one question: will you be bringing all those guns you keep saying you need to keep the government in check?
posted by pyrex at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009
Just one question: will you be bringing all those guns you keep saying you need to keep the government in check?
posted by pyrex at 12:30 PM on July 19, 2009
Something something "Rule of Law" something something "render unto Caesar" something...
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by darkstar at 12:31 PM on July 19, 2009
He should be tossed in solitary for that god-awful flashing gif at the bottom of the page. THAT thing is treason.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
Life is fully protected by the U.S. Government.
so we'll also do away with the death penalty, yesyes? No? Oh...
posted by slater at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2009
so we'll also do away with the death penalty, yesyes? No? Oh...
posted by slater at 12:32 PM on July 19, 2009
Life is fully protected by the U.S. Government.
so we'll also do away with the death penalty, yesyes? No? Oh...
Military, too. And take the guns away from the police. And everybody has nerf cars.
posted by Balisong at 12:35 PM on July 19, 2009
Can they just up and do it already? Talk talk talk, blah blah blah.
Cowards.
posted by Flunkie at 12:37 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Cowards.
posted by Flunkie at 12:37 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Treason? That's a hangin'!
posted by adipocere at 12:37 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by adipocere at 12:37 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
And yet I am the treasonous one for not wanting the US to torture prisoners of war.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:38 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:38 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Last night I twittered:
If I thought it wouldn't get me banhammered, I'd post this to MetaFilter
and if I had, I would've used this link to a 'lefty' blog reporting on it instead of the Freep.
If the tired, partied-out mods don't want to kill this entirely, may I suggest changing the link to the one I have here?
posted by wendell at 12:40 PM on July 19, 2009
If I thought it wouldn't get me banhammered, I'd post this to MetaFilter
and if I had, I would've used this link to a 'lefty' blog reporting on it instead of the Freep.
If the tired, partied-out mods don't want to kill this entirely, may I suggest changing the link to the one I have here?
posted by wendell at 12:40 PM on July 19, 2009
An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive.
That would be Hillary.
posted by e1presidente at 12:41 PM on July 19, 2009 [8 favorites]
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive.
That would be Hillary.
posted by e1presidente at 12:41 PM on July 19, 2009 [8 favorites]
This is definitely batshitinsane, but I must take pains to point out that he has chosen his words carefully --
Also, for those of you who didn't RTFA, if this screed were actually implemented right now, Jim Robinson would find himself in a nation where the President of the United States is Hillary Clinton.
posted by chimaera at 12:42 PM on July 19, 2009
Therefore, We the People of America choose to exercise our right to throw off and alter the abusive government by peacefully recalling and removing from office the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States and all U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives effective immediately.Now whether he really intends that the overthrow be peaceful or not, and aside from any lack of established method for "peacefully recalling and removing from office" all those people he mentioned, I'm failing to see where this crosses the line to treason.
Also, for those of you who didn't RTFA, if this screed were actually implemented right now, Jim Robinson would find himself in a nation where the President of the United States is Hillary Clinton.
posted by chimaera at 12:42 PM on July 19, 2009
First, note that he's not talking about violence. "Overthrow" is an extremely loaded word.
"It cannot be denied that the central government has become destructive of our unalienable rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and our rights to live free. The government is no longer responsive to we the People. They have stretched and shredded the constitution to the point that they have illegally seized for themselves virtually unlimited powers over the citizens and act as if we have no rights and no powers of our own. They are acting without our consent."
That's pretty much true. We talk about this here all the damn time. The politicians have become a separate class, that pander to us instead of listening to us. And they have largely done this through gerrymandering, which makes them almost impossible to remove.
And, hell, look at the use of the Commerce Clause by the Supreme Court to regulate drug law. I mean, could you get any transparently more extra-Constitutional than that bullshit?
Whether we happen to like it or not, this Freeper is right that we're on a suicidal path, and that we need a major reboot of the system to survive as the United States of America. We're within a decade or so of not being a going fiscal concern, and we will have to renege on a great number of promises that we have foolishly made. All this hooplah about a health program is fucking whistling past the graveyard, because we're already broke. There is no no money to support a new program -- we're already running a trillion dollar deficit this year alone. A trillion here, a trillion there, and it starts to get noticeable, ya know?
This particular approach would be cataclysmically destructive to the world economy, one of the all-time worst ideas ever. But we have to do something major, and we have to do it fast, or that cataclysm is going to come anyway. What he's recommending would essentially break the world, but the world is going to break anyway if we don't get our shit together. Empires collapse from fiscal overstretch, and ours is past the point of inevitability if we don't make truly enormous changes very quickly. Defaulting on the debt later is going to even more destructive than defaulting on it now, because there's going to be so much more if it.
As horrific an idea as this is, it's still better than our present course of doing nothing. If we do nothing, the outcome will be even worse.
posted by Malor at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2009
"It cannot be denied that the central government has become destructive of our unalienable rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and our rights to live free. The government is no longer responsive to we the People. They have stretched and shredded the constitution to the point that they have illegally seized for themselves virtually unlimited powers over the citizens and act as if we have no rights and no powers of our own. They are acting without our consent."
That's pretty much true. We talk about this here all the damn time. The politicians have become a separate class, that pander to us instead of listening to us. And they have largely done this through gerrymandering, which makes them almost impossible to remove.
And, hell, look at the use of the Commerce Clause by the Supreme Court to regulate drug law. I mean, could you get any transparently more extra-Constitutional than that bullshit?
Whether we happen to like it or not, this Freeper is right that we're on a suicidal path, and that we need a major reboot of the system to survive as the United States of America. We're within a decade or so of not being a going fiscal concern, and we will have to renege on a great number of promises that we have foolishly made. All this hooplah about a health program is fucking whistling past the graveyard, because we're already broke. There is no no money to support a new program -- we're already running a trillion dollar deficit this year alone. A trillion here, a trillion there, and it starts to get noticeable, ya know?
This particular approach would be cataclysmically destructive to the world economy, one of the all-time worst ideas ever. But we have to do something major, and we have to do it fast, or that cataclysm is going to come anyway. What he's recommending would essentially break the world, but the world is going to break anyway if we don't get our shit together. Empires collapse from fiscal overstretch, and ours is past the point of inevitability if we don't make truly enormous changes very quickly. Defaulting on the debt later is going to even more destructive than defaulting on it now, because there's going to be so much more if it.
As horrific an idea as this is, it's still better than our present course of doing nothing. If we do nothing, the outcome will be even worse.
posted by Malor at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2009
Reading the comments so you don't have to:
"The parallels with 1775 are fairly exact (also parallels with Germany in the 30’s as well)."
posted by Flunkie at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2009
"The parallels with 1775 are fairly exact (also parallels with Germany in the 30’s as well)."
posted by Flunkie at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2009
First, note that he's not talking about violence.His supporting commenters certainly are.
posted by Flunkie at 12:45 PM on July 19, 2009
Oh, and Kirth Gerson, note one critical clause in that law:
"by force or violence".
I see none of that here.
posted by Malor at 12:46 PM on July 19, 2009
"by force or violence".
I see none of that here.
posted by Malor at 12:46 PM on July 19, 2009
The only force I call for is the force of numbers. We need millions of our citizens to sign on to this petition and execute its provisions. Will require millions to march on D.C...
They couldn't even get close to that many people for the teabagging parties. And that was with the promise of teabagging.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:49 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
They couldn't even get close to that many people for the teabagging parties. And that was with the promise of teabagging.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:49 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Whatever you say about Obama, you can't say he isn't getting things done. Only, what, 5 months in office and he's already "achieved absolute Despotism" via "a long train of abuses and usurpations".
In not much more than 200 days!
(The ending of the manifesto, where it just trails off into a list of things that need to be filled in, is good, too)
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:50 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
In not much more than 200 days!
(The ending of the manifesto, where it just trails off into a list of things that need to be filled in, is good, too)
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:50 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
"The parallels with 1775 are fairly exact (also parallels with Germany in the 30’s as well)."
Also, train tracks. They are parallel. And those bars that those young hussies in tight clothing tumble about on. The 38th Parallel, too. Damn Koreans. Has anybody seen my Thorazine?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:52 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, train tracks. They are parallel. And those bars that those young hussies in tight clothing tumble about on. The 38th Parallel, too. Damn Koreans. Has anybody seen my Thorazine?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:52 PM on July 19, 2009 [2 favorites]
It'd be laughable if it wasn't guaranteed to inspire more violence, regardless of the disingenuous claims of the writer.
posted by edheil at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by edheil at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
Seriously, though. This doesn't have a chance of happening. It doesn't have a chance of a chance of 2/10ths of a chance of happening.
This is, ultimately, a very low-impact form of LARPing.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009 [4 favorites]
This is, ultimately, a very low-impact form of LARPing.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009 [4 favorites]
The Constitution of the United States must be kept intact and must be adhered to and strictly followed by all government entities as originally intended.
Well, okay... not sure how you're planning on reading the minds of the Constitution's dead authors, let alone its dead ratifiers and those who intended very different things with their votes, but bravo for style-points and I respect the sentiment even if it needs a little work in the thinking-out department....
We hereby repeal the 17th amendment.
Your Constitution. Let me show you it:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress....
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
Well, okay... not sure how you're planning on reading the minds of the Constitution's dead authors, let alone its dead ratifiers and those who intended very different things with their votes, but bravo for style-points and I respect the sentiment even if it needs a little work in the thinking-out department....
We hereby repeal the 17th amendment.
Your Constitution. Let me show you it:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress....
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
BTW, say what you like about his manifesto, that man has a fine, fine mustache.
posted by edheil at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by edheil at 12:53 PM on July 19, 2009
I reckon that Obama will eventually have to leave office in about seven and a half years.
posted by tapeguy at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by tapeguy at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009
I am reminded of an anecdote about the application for FBI agent. One of the questions, read: Do you advocate overthrow of the United States by violent or non-violent means? It was supposed to be a yes/no question. Half of the applicants understood it as multiple choice.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009 [3 favorites]
I hear he also wants "Matlock" back on the air and would like to know who stole his pills.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:54 PM on July 19, 2009
I think "by force or violence" can reasonably include "force of numbers", especially given the commentary of his membership. They could no more actually organize this than they could a trip to Denny's, but the intent is there.
posted by scalefree at 12:57 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by scalefree at 12:57 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's also worth pointing out that, because of changes in laws and police practice during the term of GW Bush, if they get millions of Freepers marching on Washington, they will end up with violently dispersed crowds and thousands of Freepers in jail. Possibly permanently, without trial.
And they cheered this shit when it was 'their side' taking away their rights.
posted by Malor at 12:57 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
And they cheered this shit when it was 'their side' taking away their rights.
posted by Malor at 12:57 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's also worth pointing out that, because of changes in laws and police practice during the term of GW Bush, if they get millions of Freepers marching on Washington, they will end up with violently dispersed crowds and thousands of Freepers in jail. Possibly permanently, without trial.
It's about as likely as millions of people showing up to a Seven Mary Three reunion show. I just don't think we have to worry about it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:03 PM on July 19, 2009
It's about as likely as millions of people showing up to a Seven Mary Three reunion show. I just don't think we have to worry about it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:03 PM on July 19, 2009
Are there even a million people who visit that site regularly?
posted by borges at 1:05 PM on July 19, 2009
posted by borges at 1:05 PM on July 19, 2009
This is, ultimately, a very low-impact form of LARPing.
This is off topic, but that reminds me of the time I experienced high-impact LARPing, someone had a set of tennis-ball tipped arrows and one of them hit me in the groin.
That was the last time I went LARPing.
posted by hellojed at 1:08 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is off topic, but that reminds me of the time I experienced high-impact LARPing, someone had a set of tennis-ball tipped arrows and one of them hit me in the groin.
That was the last time I went LARPing.
posted by hellojed at 1:08 PM on July 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
anotherpanacea: ".... on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths ...."
If he wants to advocate anything, this is pretty much the way to do it. The founding fathers left us a way to change our government without rising up in armed rebellion. Of course he would have to persuade two thirds of the state legislatures to go along with the idea, instead of preaching to a small minority of crackpots.
posted by jefeweiss at 1:08 PM on July 19, 2009
If he wants to advocate anything, this is pretty much the way to do it. The founding fathers left us a way to change our government without rising up in armed rebellion. Of course he would have to persuade two thirds of the state legislatures to go along with the idea, instead of preaching to a small minority of crackpots.
posted by jefeweiss at 1:08 PM on July 19, 2009
It's also worth pointing out that, because of changes in laws and police practice during the term of GW Bush, if they get millions of Freepers marching on Washington, they will end up with violently dispersed crowds and thousands of Freepers in jail. Possibly permanently, without trial.
They'll be lucky to get a thousand cranks (people enjoy talking shit on the internet--it's another thing altogether to actually go march somewhere).
And who are the victims--even under Bush--of these mass arrests and permanent detentions-without-trial for protesting? Please leave these kinds of paranoid fantasies where they belong: in freeperland.
posted by yoink at 1:11 PM on July 19, 2009
They'll be lucky to get a thousand cranks (people enjoy talking shit on the internet--it's another thing altogether to actually go march somewhere).
And who are the victims--even under Bush--of these mass arrests and permanent detentions-without-trial for protesting? Please leave these kinds of paranoid fantasies where they belong: in freeperland.
posted by yoink at 1:11 PM on July 19, 2009
The founding fathers left us a way to change our government without rising up in armed rebellion. Of course he would have to persuade two thirds of the state legislatures to go along with the idea, instead of preaching to a small minority of crackpots.
Funny you should mention that.
posted by scalefree at 1:13 PM on July 19, 2009
Funny you should mention that.
posted by scalefree at 1:13 PM on July 19, 2009
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posted by Nelson at 12:22 PM on July 19, 2009 [3 favorites]