Military blogger exposes religious bias in US army recruitment and practice
January 6, 2011 12:34 PM Subscribe
"Smoking Gun" proves that mandatory US army "spiritual fitness" test is a religious test and therefore unconstitutional. A damning expose of certain US army recruiting practices, which openly favor religion and therefor violate the US constitution.
Furthermore, the blog explores how a group of US soldiers are forced to attend Christian music concert or be punished. (direct youtube link)
Furthermore, the blog explores how a group of US soldiers are forced to attend Christian music concert or be punished. (direct youtube link)
This post was deleted for the following reason: Subject is interesting but it seems like the framing here is pretty flawed. If someone wants to try again at some point, that's fine. Thanks for being a good sport, sarastro. -- cortex
the military already had scopes with bible verses and soldiers have been caught handing out bibles in afghanistan. we're in a holy war that was sold as protecting freedom. hearts and minds, indeed.
posted by nadawi at 12:44 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by nadawi at 12:44 PM on January 6, 2011
This is pretty interesting. I wish you (and the linked blog!) wouldn't put a speculative legal conclusion in the headline though (the test ". . . is . . . unconstitutional"). It comes across as axe-grindy. And I'm not sure it's an unconstitutional "religious test" for the military to ask whether you consider yourself a spiritual person.
If there's any kind of learned legal analysis of the subject, you should link to that.
posted by grobstein at 12:44 PM on January 6, 2011
If there's any kind of learned legal analysis of the subject, you should link to that.
posted by grobstein at 12:44 PM on January 6, 2011
US soldiers are forced to attend Christian music concert or be punished.
Well, it almost goes without saying that either way the soldiers are being punished.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:45 PM on January 6, 2011 [15 favorites]
Well, it almost goes without saying that either way the soldiers are being punished.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:45 PM on January 6, 2011 [15 favorites]
The point is that if the army is rejecting applicants based on a low "spiritual fitness" score, it is blatantly unconstitutional and to me, at least, that seems to be exactly what they're doing. I don't mean to be axe-grindy, it just seems pretty clear cut wrong.
posted by sarastro at 12:47 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by sarastro at 12:47 PM on January 6, 2011
nadawi: the military already had scopes with bible verses and soldiers have been caught handing out bibles in afghanistan. we're in a holy war that was sold as protecting freedom. hearts and minds, indeed.
There's a difference between being directed to hand out bibles while talking with the locals, or being given a sniper rifle with the biblical passage already there, and doing those things because of your personal beliefs. Neither are good for a military that claims no allegiance to religion, but only one stinks of hypocrisy.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:54 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a difference between being directed to hand out bibles while talking with the locals, or being given a sniper rifle with the biblical passage already there, and doing those things because of your personal beliefs. Neither are good for a military that claims no allegiance to religion, but only one stinks of hypocrisy.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:54 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
The word "recruiting" does not appear in any of the linked pages.
From what I can tell of the CSF^ program from its Wikipedia article, this is basically a survey that's given to people who are already in the military, not some sort of qualification for joining the military or any criterion for advancement, so the constitutionality thing looks pretty contrived and fighty.
I'm an atheist, this seems like a topic worth discussing, but this is a poorly framed post.
posted by XMLicious at 12:55 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
From what I can tell of the CSF^ program from its Wikipedia article, this is basically a survey that's given to people who are already in the military, not some sort of qualification for joining the military or any criterion for advancement, so the constitutionality thing looks pretty contrived and fighty.
I'm an atheist, this seems like a topic worth discussing, but this is a poorly framed post.
posted by XMLicious at 12:55 PM on January 6, 2011 [4 favorites]
"The point is that if the army is rejecting applicants based on a low "spiritual fitness" score, it is blatantly unconstitutional and to me, at least, that seems to be exactly what they're doing. "
Is that what the army is doing? I don't see that stated anywhere in the linked article. In fact, the offical claim as stated on the form is that this data is being collected "for research purposes only."
posted by tdismukes at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2011
Is that what the army is doing? I don't see that stated anywhere in the linked article. In fact, the offical claim as stated on the form is that this data is being collected "for research purposes only."
posted by tdismukes at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2011
The test is intended to measure a soldier's tendency to cause trouble rather than conform to institutional norms.
posted by ryanrs at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by ryanrs at 12:56 PM on January 6, 2011
From the link: I understand that there are exceptionally rare instances of atheists who meditate,
What? I know atheists and non-theists who meditate. It's not religious meditation, but it's still meditation.
posted by rtha at 12:58 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
What? I know atheists and non-theists who meditate. It's not religious meditation, but it's still meditation.
posted by rtha at 12:58 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
darksasami: "So that's why they say there are no atheists in foxholes. I always wondered."
LOL
grobstein: "If there's any kind of learned legal analysis of the subject, you should link to that."
Agreed that link would be nice, too. I'm surprised to note that Volokh Conspiracy doesn't seem to have weighed in on this yet.
posted by Lorem Ipsum Wilder at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011
LOL
grobstein: "If there's any kind of learned legal analysis of the subject, you should link to that."
Agreed that link would be nice, too. I'm surprised to note that Volokh Conspiracy doesn't seem to have weighed in on this yet.
posted by Lorem Ipsum Wilder at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011
If you don't like it, don't volunteer to join the army. Duh.
posted by stevenstevo at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by stevenstevo at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
How are we supposed to win a war, if God is not on OUR side!
posted by stocknowledge at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by stocknowledge at 12:59 PM on January 6, 2011
See also: Religious bias at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs.
Note the date. This crap has been going on for a while.
posted by quin at 1:03 PM on January 6, 2011
Note the date. This crap has been going on for a while.
posted by quin at 1:03 PM on January 6, 2011
We're involved in no less than 4 simultaneous Crusades in Muslim countries, and have pleged to back the Immaculate and Infallible God Fearing JudeoChristian Nation of Israel to the ends of the earth and to the last American life. Why shouldn't our Holy Warriors swear a loyalty Oath to our most High Commander and Chief, Lord and Savior, Jesus Hussein Christ?
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on January 6, 2011
I can see that they're asking people about their religious beliefs, but without a scoring key, he's just assuming that they're assigning positive qualities to the strongly pro-religious answers. It may well be that they don't like the fact that the candidate apparently doesn't feel connected to humanity or that their partner's participation in the military is largely meaningless. The gun might be getting warm, but I'm not sure it's smoking.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the military counts spirituality as a positive when it come to soldiers' dealing with the shit they deal with. Whether you see it as faith or self-delusion, there's no denying religion has a strong power to comfort people.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:06 PM on January 6, 2011
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the military counts spirituality as a positive when it come to soldiers' dealing with the shit they deal with. Whether you see it as faith or self-delusion, there's no denying religion has a strong power to comfort people.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:06 PM on January 6, 2011
Shenanigans.
Even on this Rock Beyond Belief website, which is just a giant ad for the Rock Beyond Belief concert(?), there is no hard evidence listed that soldiers were forced to attend a seven hour gospel concert.
As much as I am an atheist, assbags like "Justin" annoy me just as much as the christian preachers. Yes, there was a religious event on military grounds. Yes, military chaplains had a hand in it. Yes, atheists are more hated by christians that most any other religion. Still don't care. Give us some actual unbiased articles. This doesn't belong as a FPP, flagged as such.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2011
Even on this Rock Beyond Belief website, which is just a giant ad for the Rock Beyond Belief concert(?), there is no hard evidence listed that soldiers were forced to attend a seven hour gospel concert.
As much as I am an atheist, assbags like "Justin" annoy me just as much as the christian preachers. Yes, there was a religious event on military grounds. Yes, military chaplains had a hand in it. Yes, atheists are more hated by christians that most any other religion. Still don't care. Give us some actual unbiased articles. This doesn't belong as a FPP, flagged as such.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2011
From what I can tell of the CSF^ program from its Wikipedia article, this is basically a survey that's given to people who are already in the military, not some sort of qualification for joining the military or any criterion for advancement, so the constitutionality thing looks pretty contrived and fighty.
I'm an atheist, this seems like a topic worth discussing, but this is a poorly framed post.
Hmm, yeah you may be right. I think I misunderstood a part of it and got a bit hot under the collar. Upon a second reading it's fairly clear that this is a survey given to existing soldiers rather than potential recruits. Hive mind, I prostrate myself before you for having not taken a minute to calm down before posting.
That being said, it still stinks. Especially the fact that they are collecting the data about the "spiritual fitness" of the service members to "design future education and training, and to make recommendations to senior leaders".
posted by sarastro at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2011
I'm an atheist, this seems like a topic worth discussing, but this is a poorly framed post.
Hmm, yeah you may be right. I think I misunderstood a part of it and got a bit hot under the collar. Upon a second reading it's fairly clear that this is a survey given to existing soldiers rather than potential recruits. Hive mind, I prostrate myself before you for having not taken a minute to calm down before posting.
That being said, it still stinks. Especially the fact that they are collecting the data about the "spiritual fitness" of the service members to "design future education and training, and to make recommendations to senior leaders".
posted by sarastro at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2011
Why shouldn't our Holy Warriors swear a loyalty Oath to our most High Commander and Chief, Lord and Savior, Jesus Hussein Christ?
At least you didn't resort to hyperbole.
posted by found missing at 1:08 PM on January 6, 2011
At least you didn't resort to hyperbole.
posted by found missing at 1:08 PM on January 6, 2011
From what I can tell of the CSF^ program from its Wikipedia article, this is basically a survey that's given to people who are already in the military, not some sort of qualification for joining the military or any criterion for advancement, so the constitutionality thing looks pretty contrived and fighty.
Right, the spiritual fitness component of the program is arguably poorly designed and could alienate non-Christians, but this doesn't really resemble the sort of religious litmus test for public office that the constitution is talking about.
The test is intended to measure a soldier's tendency to cause trouble rather than conform to institutional norms.
To me it seems like the standard Christian military chaplain services which have been around forever, awkwardly vagued-up to sound secular, and jammed into a new program centered around mental health services disguised as "fitness." There is a huge stigma around seeking out mental health services even though PTSD and other problems are extremely common, so even if the execution is flawed the overall program seems to be directed at a real problem that needs to be addressed. The question is whether religious services should play a part in that and how that fits within a religiously diverse military.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:08 PM on January 6, 2011
Right, the spiritual fitness component of the program is arguably poorly designed and could alienate non-Christians, but this doesn't really resemble the sort of religious litmus test for public office that the constitution is talking about.
The test is intended to measure a soldier's tendency to cause trouble rather than conform to institutional norms.
To me it seems like the standard Christian military chaplain services which have been around forever, awkwardly vagued-up to sound secular, and jammed into a new program centered around mental health services disguised as "fitness." There is a huge stigma around seeking out mental health services even though PTSD and other problems are extremely common, so even if the execution is flawed the overall program seems to be directed at a real problem that needs to be addressed. The question is whether religious services should play a part in that and how that fits within a religiously diverse military.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:08 PM on January 6, 2011
I understand that there are exceptionally rare instances of atheists who meditate,
damn.. I knew I was a special snowflake.
meditation is tangential to religion, lots of "religious people" don't meditate
posted by edgeways at 1:09 PM on January 6, 2011
damn.. I knew I was a special snowflake.
meditation is tangential to religion, lots of "religious people" don't meditate
posted by edgeways at 1:09 PM on January 6, 2011
The survey specifically says that "the Army will remove any and all identifying information about you." So unless there's some reason to believe they're not doing that, this is clearly not a "religious test... required as a qualification," i.e. the headline is a bald-faced lie. (This isn't a swipe at you, sarastro — it's the site you linked to that came up with it.) So why is this still here?
I don't doubt that there's religious bias in the US military, and a post on that topic would be very interesting to read. But this is probably not that post.
posted by teraflop at 1:15 PM on January 6, 2011
I don't doubt that there's religious bias in the US military, and a post on that topic would be very interesting to read. But this is probably not that post.
posted by teraflop at 1:15 PM on January 6, 2011
You're all going to burn in hell.
posted by dougrayrankin at 1:20 PM on January 6, 2011
posted by dougrayrankin at 1:20 PM on January 6, 2011
Hive mind, I prostrate myself before you for having not taken a minute to calm down before posting.
We accept your confession. Say three hail cortexes. Go forth and grar no more, my son. (Unless, y'know, it's over something REALLY outrageous.)
Personally, though I'm an atheist, I would want soldiers who are out there at war, who are already religious, to dwell in and feel strong in their faith, whether they're Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccan, Jedi, or whatever. I guess maybe it's the one situation in which I'd be okay with the government "promoting" religion. But there certainly are lots of potential problems, for bad design of the program or for the program to be abused.
posted by XMLicious at 1:23 PM on January 6, 2011
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