Protected by the legendary Jedi Order, the Galactic Republic stood as a bastion of peace in the galaxy for a thousand generations...
August 23, 2011 2:32 PM Subscribe
Can't wait for Star Wars: The Old Republic? You'd better be Jedi fast! EA wants you to pre-order its game real bad.
SWTOR or TOR, is an upcoming MMORPG based in the Star Wars universe that allows you to play whatever you want! Champion the Dark Side, be a force for good, or something in between. Webcomics, trailers, and developer blogs to catch you up on the lastest Empire doings.
Why SWTOR needs to succeed/fail.
SWTOR or TOR, is an upcoming MMORPG based in the Star Wars universe that allows you to play whatever you want! Champion the Dark Side, be a force for good, or something in between. Webcomics, trailers, and developer blogs to catch you up on the lastest Empire doings.
Why SWTOR needs to succeed/fail.
Harvest Blue?
posted by Rhaomi at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2011 [12 favorites]
I'm in the beta.
The game...needs work. A lot of work. Seriously. I'm thisclose to canceling my preorder.
posted by perilous at 2:46 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
The game...needs work. A lot of work. Seriously. I'm thisclose to canceling my preorder.
posted by perilous at 2:46 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh come on. Milk blue.
posted by Babblesort at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Babblesort at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2011 [7 favorites]
The game...needs work. A lot of work.
I've been interested in TOR for ages. Could you expand on this? I'd like to know if I need to deflate my expectations.
posted by fight or flight at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've been interested in TOR for ages. Could you expand on this? I'd like to know if I need to deflate my expectations.
posted by fight or flight at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I've kinda given up on this game for now, and my hopes are pinned on Guild Wars 2. I'll pick up KOTOR if everyone says it's a game-changer, but that's looking unlikely at this point.
posted by Huck500 at 2:48 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 2:48 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I look forward to future posts about ponzi-scheming Sith lords.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 2:49 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Salvor Hardin at 2:49 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
perilous: “I'm in the beta. The game...needs work. A lot of work. Seriously. I'm thisclose to canceling my preorder.”
They call it "beta" for a reason. Last I heard, they hadn't even announced an official release date.
posted by koeselitz at 2:50 PM on August 23, 2011
They call it "beta" for a reason. Last I heard, they hadn't even announced an official release date.
posted by koeselitz at 2:50 PM on August 23, 2011
Huck500: “I'll pick up KOTOR if everyone says it's a game-changer, but that's looking unlikely at this point.”
It is indeed unlikely that a game released eight years ago would turn out to become a game-changer.
posted by koeselitz at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
It is indeed unlikely that a game released eight years ago would turn out to become a game-changer.
posted by koeselitz at 2:55 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why bother pre-ordering? In another 50,000 years or so, The Old Republic will become Free to Play.
posted by Smart Dalek at 2:56 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Smart Dalek at 2:56 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I like that they assume the only reason it will succeed or fail is the amount of money they spent. I might be way off base here, maybe it will have something to do with whether the game is actually fun?
posted by thewumpusisdead at 2:58 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by thewumpusisdead at 2:58 PM on August 23, 2011
I feel a disturbance in my productivity.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:00 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:00 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
When it comes to MMO gameplay, "fun" becomes the most subjective idea in the galaxy.
posted by griphus at 3:04 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 3:04 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's a good idea, highly anticipated MMO launches have a track record for having shitty launches. There are a ton of people waiting for this game, I'll send them a pre-order if they want.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:05 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:05 PM on August 23, 2011
I like that they assume the only reason it will succeed or fail is the amount of money they spent.
No, no. The reason it's important if they succeed or fail has to do with the amount of money they spent. I mean, if two guys make an iPhone app over their lunchbreaks, sure they want it to succeed, but it won't bring down the local economy or seriously shake up the industry if they fail. EA has sunk a lot of money and a seriously scary headcount into this project, and success or failure will have major ripples at EA, in Austin, and in the MMO scene overall.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:06 PM on August 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
No, no. The reason it's important if they succeed or fail has to do with the amount of money they spent. I mean, if two guys make an iPhone app over their lunchbreaks, sure they want it to succeed, but it won't bring down the local economy or seriously shake up the industry if they fail. EA has sunk a lot of money and a seriously scary headcount into this project, and success or failure will have major ripples at EA, in Austin, and in the MMO scene overall.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:06 PM on August 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
I like that they assume the only reason it will succeed or fail is the amount of money they spent. I might be way off base here, maybe it will have something to do with whether the game is actually fun?
If you're talking about the last linked article, I didn't read it that way at all. Rather, it seemed to be talking about how the budget would factor into the repercussions of the game's success/failure, not whether it would succeed/fail.
Last I heard, they hadn't even announced an official release date.
I think the official line right now is probably almost definitely by the end of March 2012. And aiming for before the end of the year. Considering how long the game's been in development, it would be pretty late in the game for there to be still serious problems. But I haven't really read up to see if others are in perilous's camp.
(I almost wish the game would fail. I generally become a Bioware widower for a few weeks after one of their regular RPGs is released. I don't want to think about the consequences with an MMO!)
posted by kmz at 3:07 PM on August 23, 2011
If you're talking about the last linked article, I didn't read it that way at all. Rather, it seemed to be talking about how the budget would factor into the repercussions of the game's success/failure, not whether it would succeed/fail.
Last I heard, they hadn't even announced an official release date.
I think the official line right now is probably almost definitely by the end of March 2012. And aiming for before the end of the year. Considering how long the game's been in development, it would be pretty late in the game for there to be still serious problems. But I haven't really read up to see if others are in perilous's camp.
(I almost wish the game would fail. I generally become a Bioware widower for a few weeks after one of their regular RPGs is released. I don't want to think about the consequences with an MMO!)
posted by kmz at 3:07 PM on August 23, 2011
I hesitated to violate the NDA more than I already have because I'm actually still testing, though not as actively or eagerly as I was when I first got into the beta. Then I thought about it and realized...I dont even give a shit if I'm thrown out of the beta at this point. That's how uninteresting and poorly done the game is to me. Plus, the community of beta testers is the absolute worst I have ever experienced in my life. Unbelievable what goes on in that beta forum.
The game itself? It is uninspired. It is boring as fuck. It's tedious and repetitious and dull. The storylines are promising but shallower than a Britney Spears lecture on pedicures.
It's pretty to look at until it starts getting boring. And it will. Fast. The world is HUGE, and you are required to run through the same parts of it so many times, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, that you will lose your mind before you lose count. You kill exactly the same guys over and over again, in steadily increasing numbers.
Well, that's not quite accurate. Technically, they aren't the same guys at all. They have different names.
There are a lot of things left out of the UI - things basic enough that it kind of boggles you why they haven't been included.
The game is homogenous to the point of madness. There isn't an ounce of creativity in this game. Everything is old, and other games are better at lots of it. Not everything, but lots. There is almost no interaction with your companions or with other NPCs in the game. I like the fact that you really dont have to group if you dont want to - I hate grouping - but the word feels like a dead husk and youre running around deaf and mute in it. Your own companions hardly even speak to or interact with you. Maybe I should wash my robes more often, I dunno.
There are many more things I could say about it, but really, I'm so tired of trying to get my point across on the beta forums and in the feedback and bug reports I send to the devs that I'm very close to beyond caring. I waited for this game for years. That they have done no better than they have is astonishing. There are some undeniably cool things - super cool - but they are so few and far between and usually so poorly implemented that it makes you want to brick whoever thought it would be acceptable the way it is right in the face. Lazy development, right to the core.
Anyway, lots of testers like it. Some testers like it at first and then wind up asking, about 10-20 levels in, "Is this it? Where's the rest?" And others, like myself, ask that from the get go. It's glaring.
A growing number of people, both regular beta testers like me right up to articles in the gaming media, are saying the same things I'm saying. I played several characters for a while and followed several storylines, and now I have no urge whatsoever to log into the game at all. That's bad, bad news if someone like me, a devoted gamer chick who's played for more than 30 years and who has been in the majority of every MMO beta for the last 15 or so. I played EverQuest for YEARS. WoW. Anarchy Online. Hell, I even played SWG for years. I'd rather see that game revived than this game released. Man, that was the best beta ever.
Well, there you have it. I dont want to have to say it, but this game sucks as it stands right now. It has immense potential. It could be a brilliant game. But it's not now, and it won't be anytime soon. From my point of view, that's just the brutal fact of the matter.
posted by perilous at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2011 [36 favorites]
The game itself? It is uninspired. It is boring as fuck. It's tedious and repetitious and dull. The storylines are promising but shallower than a Britney Spears lecture on pedicures.
It's pretty to look at until it starts getting boring. And it will. Fast. The world is HUGE, and you are required to run through the same parts of it so many times, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, that you will lose your mind before you lose count. You kill exactly the same guys over and over again, in steadily increasing numbers.
Well, that's not quite accurate. Technically, they aren't the same guys at all. They have different names.
There are a lot of things left out of the UI - things basic enough that it kind of boggles you why they haven't been included.
The game is homogenous to the point of madness. There isn't an ounce of creativity in this game. Everything is old, and other games are better at lots of it. Not everything, but lots. There is almost no interaction with your companions or with other NPCs in the game. I like the fact that you really dont have to group if you dont want to - I hate grouping - but the word feels like a dead husk and youre running around deaf and mute in it. Your own companions hardly even speak to or interact with you. Maybe I should wash my robes more often, I dunno.
There are many more things I could say about it, but really, I'm so tired of trying to get my point across on the beta forums and in the feedback and bug reports I send to the devs that I'm very close to beyond caring. I waited for this game for years. That they have done no better than they have is astonishing. There are some undeniably cool things - super cool - but they are so few and far between and usually so poorly implemented that it makes you want to brick whoever thought it would be acceptable the way it is right in the face. Lazy development, right to the core.
Anyway, lots of testers like it. Some testers like it at first and then wind up asking, about 10-20 levels in, "Is this it? Where's the rest?" And others, like myself, ask that from the get go. It's glaring.
A growing number of people, both regular beta testers like me right up to articles in the gaming media, are saying the same things I'm saying. I played several characters for a while and followed several storylines, and now I have no urge whatsoever to log into the game at all. That's bad, bad news if someone like me, a devoted gamer chick who's played for more than 30 years and who has been in the majority of every MMO beta for the last 15 or so. I played EverQuest for YEARS. WoW. Anarchy Online. Hell, I even played SWG for years. I'd rather see that game revived than this game released. Man, that was the best beta ever.
Well, there you have it. I dont want to have to say it, but this game sucks as it stands right now. It has immense potential. It could be a brilliant game. But it's not now, and it won't be anytime soon. From my point of view, that's just the brutal fact of the matter.
posted by perilous at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2011 [36 favorites]
my hopes are pinned on Guild Wars 2
Well I suppose even DNF came out eventually.
posted by Talez at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2011
Well I suppose even DNF came out eventually.
posted by Talez at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2011
Koeselitz, the game is slated for release during holidays 2011. They did state that.
I know very well what "beta" means, thanks. At this point, there is so much important stuff that's so badly broken in the game that four more months of beta won't touch it. It requires recoding of large swaths of the game itself.
Please dont condescend. I get enough of that juvenile bullshit in the beta forum, and to be honest I'm sick and tired of such a pat, strawman defense.
posted by perilous at 3:10 PM on August 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
I know very well what "beta" means, thanks. At this point, there is so much important stuff that's so badly broken in the game that four more months of beta won't touch it. It requires recoding of large swaths of the game itself.
Please dont condescend. I get enough of that juvenile bullshit in the beta forum, and to be honest I'm sick and tired of such a pat, strawman defense.
posted by perilous at 3:10 PM on August 23, 2011 [11 favorites]
Perilous. If I can ask one question.
Is the combat system a MUD style combat engine (a'la Everquest, WoW, AO) or is it an action RPG style combat engine (i.e. Phantasy Star Online, PSU)?
Because honestly I'm damn tired of MUD style combat engines.
posted by Talez at 3:12 PM on August 23, 2011
Is the combat system a MUD style combat engine (a'la Everquest, WoW, AO) or is it an action RPG style combat engine (i.e. Phantasy Star Online, PSU)?
Because honestly I'm damn tired of MUD style combat engines.
posted by Talez at 3:12 PM on August 23, 2011
I'm playing Rift now. I've thought about pre-ordering SWTOR, because I miss (pre-NGE) SWG, but I'm not yet sold on it.
I'm concerned that this move makes BioWare's initial, deep investment look shaky - they're worried that the money they've spent on voice talent, visual design, and immersion will go belly up if the launch goes less than smoothly.
It's a relatively minor concern. We're used to launches going less than smoothly.
What we're not used to is getting a high-pressure pre-order, for a product without a release date, during the biggest recession since the Great Depression. We just went through the 15-year debacle that was "Duke Nukem Forever", and I'm not keen on blowing $160 for two licenses just to get a few nifty in-game items... a decade from now.
BioWare, until you announce an official release date, I'm not touching it with a stick.
posted by FormlessOne at 3:17 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm concerned that this move makes BioWare's initial, deep investment look shaky - they're worried that the money they've spent on voice talent, visual design, and immersion will go belly up if the launch goes less than smoothly.
It's a relatively minor concern. We're used to launches going less than smoothly.
What we're not used to is getting a high-pressure pre-order, for a product without a release date, during the biggest recession since the Great Depression. We just went through the 15-year debacle that was "Duke Nukem Forever", and I'm not keen on blowing $160 for two licenses just to get a few nifty in-game items... a decade from now.
BioWare, until you announce an official release date, I'm not touching it with a stick.
posted by FormlessOne at 3:17 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Similar to WoW / EQ. There is no auto-attack. On purpose. This is a really stupid omission. Lots and lots of keyboard-mashing/mouseclicking for combat. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
It looks really nice, though. Combat ani is pretty good...but again, it gets homogenous after a while.
posted by perilous at 3:17 PM on August 23, 2011
It looks really nice, though. Combat ani is pretty good...but again, it gets homogenous after a while.
posted by perilous at 3:17 PM on August 23, 2011
Oh, right, I wanted to say - BioWare is billing it as a sort of MMO RPG. That's a very good way to describe it. Very appealing. I like the idea a lot. This game could be spectacular if only they cared enough to put in the creative work to make it so.
posted by perilous at 3:19 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by perilous at 3:19 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why bother pre-ordering? In another 50,000 years or so, The Old Republic will become Free to Play.
If I'm reading that right, it's wrong.
"A long time ago in a galaxy far far away..."
</nerdpedantry>
posted by eyeballkid at 3:20 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
If I'm reading that right, it's wrong.
"A long time ago in a galaxy far far away..."
</nerdpedantry>
posted by eyeballkid at 3:20 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
World of Warcraft these days is lots of keyboard mashing. Especially since each class has a priority based system now instead of rotations.
I'm probably going to play Phantasy Star Online 2 alongside WoW but I think I'm going to skip TOR.
posted by Talez at 3:20 PM on August 23, 2011
I'm probably going to play Phantasy Star Online 2 alongside WoW but I think I'm going to skip TOR.
posted by Talez at 3:20 PM on August 23, 2011
Frankly I'm pleased as punch at the initial look at WildStar. (Disclaimer: a bunch of friends of mine work there, as is true of every other MMO currently in development. My objectivity on this topic is wildly suspect.)
Regarding the "it's in beta" defense: very, very few MMOs with major systems issues in beta manage to go anywhere successful. Scaling problems, sure, end-game systems, those can wait, technical problems can be fixed - but if the core game isn't fun now, it's not going to get better by Christmas. The ship's simply too big to turn it very far at this point.
The caveat to that is that a popular MMO is more fun than an empty MMO, and beta testers in general only ever see an empty MMO. The social systems always require a certain critical mass before they start to have an impact. There are often other systems that have the same weakness in beta testing (PvP, any sort of "public quest" system a la WAR.)
The other issue is that pre-NDA lift reports are always deeply biased and few enough in number that it's hard to get a sense of the overall scene. People who are bitter about the game for whatever reason? Those are the ones willing to break the NDA. People who love the game keep their mouths shut (and perilous, I won't rat you out but the Bioware folks do act on NDA breaches and I am not the only Mefite with connections there.) Burnout happens, usually quicker in beta than would happen pre-launch (see above re: social critical mass and delayed end-game systems.) So yeah, I've heard deeply mixed (but, happily, improving) reports from the beta and the office, but they're all worth taking with a grain of salt.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:22 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Regarding the "it's in beta" defense: very, very few MMOs with major systems issues in beta manage to go anywhere successful. Scaling problems, sure, end-game systems, those can wait, technical problems can be fixed - but if the core game isn't fun now, it's not going to get better by Christmas. The ship's simply too big to turn it very far at this point.
The caveat to that is that a popular MMO is more fun than an empty MMO, and beta testers in general only ever see an empty MMO. The social systems always require a certain critical mass before they start to have an impact. There are often other systems that have the same weakness in beta testing (PvP, any sort of "public quest" system a la WAR.)
The other issue is that pre-NDA lift reports are always deeply biased and few enough in number that it's hard to get a sense of the overall scene. People who are bitter about the game for whatever reason? Those are the ones willing to break the NDA. People who love the game keep their mouths shut (and perilous, I won't rat you out but the Bioware folks do act on NDA breaches and I am not the only Mefite with connections there.) Burnout happens, usually quicker in beta than would happen pre-launch (see above re: social critical mass and delayed end-game systems.) So yeah, I've heard deeply mixed (but, happily, improving) reports from the beta and the office, but they're all worth taking with a grain of salt.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:22 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
The game itself? It is uninspired. It is boring as fuck. It's tedious and repetitious and dull.
So, it's an MMO?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:23 PM on August 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
So, it's an MMO?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 3:23 PM on August 23, 2011 [4 favorites]
It is indeed unlikely that a game released eight years ago would turn out to become a game-changer.
I disagree. Carth is a game changer in any generation.
posted by NoraReed at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I disagree. Carth is a game changer in any generation.
posted by NoraReed at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
perilous: “Please dont condescend. I get enough of that juvenile bullshit in the beta forum, and to be honest I'm sick and tired of such a pat, strawman defense.”
Not trying to condescend, just stating what I knew. It's really worthwhile to get your extended take on it, though. Seriously, thanks for a good preview of it.
And, yeah, from what you've said, it sounds distinctly like they'd better get their shit together. Or else that "holiday release" will have to be the holidays of 2015 or something. Wow.
posted by koeselitz at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not trying to condescend, just stating what I knew. It's really worthwhile to get your extended take on it, though. Seriously, thanks for a good preview of it.
And, yeah, from what you've said, it sounds distinctly like they'd better get their shit together. Or else that "holiday release" will have to be the holidays of 2015 or something. Wow.
posted by koeselitz at 3:30 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
What you say about "empty MMOs" during beta is very true, and I would never dispute that. But remember that this game is an MMO RPG - it is meant to be played in a very different way than standard MMOs, so you do not miss the interaction from other player characters as much as you would in, say, WoW or others. SWTOR is not built the same way at all.
That said, you should totally take my own personal opinion about the game with a grain of salt (you meaning everyone) because I am not you. For all I know, you could log in that first day and think SWTOR was the best game you ever played. If that's true, I'd be very happy for you. Confused, but happy.
Things in the beta are still being implemented. The game isnt even finished yet. UI changes are going in, character changes are going in, dialogue, planets, etc. The game will improve - which is why I haven't wiped it off my hard drive or canceled my preorder. Yet.
But as restless_nomad said, the core weaknesses cannot be fixed by Christmas, or even by spring. They'd have to roll back any hint of a release date. It would require rebuilding a large part of the game to fix the core issues. These will NOT be fixed, and my honest assessment is that the implementations that have yet to be made can and will go some way toward making the game better than it is today, but will not fix a lot of the really major problems.
Hopefully they will take some time to tweak the hell out of the questing system, at least, before live, because OMG DULL.
posted by perilous at 3:31 PM on August 23, 2011
That said, you should totally take my own personal opinion about the game with a grain of salt (you meaning everyone) because I am not you. For all I know, you could log in that first day and think SWTOR was the best game you ever played. If that's true, I'd be very happy for you. Confused, but happy.
Things in the beta are still being implemented. The game isnt even finished yet. UI changes are going in, character changes are going in, dialogue, planets, etc. The game will improve - which is why I haven't wiped it off my hard drive or canceled my preorder. Yet.
But as restless_nomad said, the core weaknesses cannot be fixed by Christmas, or even by spring. They'd have to roll back any hint of a release date. It would require rebuilding a large part of the game to fix the core issues. These will NOT be fixed, and my honest assessment is that the implementations that have yet to be made can and will go some way toward making the game better than it is today, but will not fix a lot of the really major problems.
Hopefully they will take some time to tweak the hell out of the questing system, at least, before live, because OMG DULL.
posted by perilous at 3:31 PM on August 23, 2011
Thanks, koeselitz, and sorry if I seemed overly sensitive to it. I am. That beta forum is a fucking jungle. A smelly, badly written one with no spelling or punctuation and lots of pimples and "no u" in it. :P
posted by perilous at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by perilous at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2011
BioWare is billing it as a sort of MMO RPG
Isn't that what it is? That's pretty much the standard acronym for these sorts of things 'Muh more puh guh's' as Yahtzee puts it.
posted by empath at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Isn't that what it is? That's pretty much the standard acronym for these sorts of things 'Muh more puh guh's' as Yahtzee puts it.
posted by empath at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm completely torn on this. I want it to fail so that Bioware can focus on what they do best: stories. On the other hand, if it fails, it could well be the end of the company.
God damn it. If only they had made KOTOR3 and 4 instead of this ridiculous MMO. I would've even dealt with, like, in-game stores if it meant something on par with the original KOTOR.
posted by spiderskull at 3:33 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
God damn it. If only they had made KOTOR3 and 4 instead of this ridiculous MMO. I would've even dealt with, like, in-game stores if it meant something on par with the original KOTOR.
posted by spiderskull at 3:33 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'd prefer an MMO based around the production of the prequels (struggle to salvage terrible Lucas scripts etc)
Or a RedLetterMedia MMO.
posted by memebake at 3:34 PM on August 23, 2011
Or a RedLetterMedia MMO.
posted by memebake at 3:34 PM on August 23, 2011
I think the big budget MMORPG's are doing it all wrong honestly, and what the world really needs is minecraft crossed with eve and with a blockbuster budget and an actual team of programmers who have to work for a living.
You don't need amazing graphics and a realistic looking world. You need adequate graphics and a realistic behaving world -- one where the stories are created by the players through their interactions with each other, which will always be more meaningful than an interaction with an instanced encounter will ever be.
posted by empath at 3:35 PM on August 23, 2011 [9 favorites]
You don't need amazing graphics and a realistic looking world. You need adequate graphics and a realistic behaving world -- one where the stories are created by the players through their interactions with each other, which will always be more meaningful than an interaction with an instanced encounter will ever be.
posted by empath at 3:35 PM on August 23, 2011 [9 favorites]
Re: "It's in beta"
I've been in beta tests for several games of different types.
I was in the alpha and the beta for Final Fantasy 14. Over and over and over we kept submitting reports of major issues, flat-out saying "There is no way this game is remotely ready for launch." They went ahead and shipped it as-is, to meet the Christmas rush, and the rest is history.
So for a game to have serious issues this far along, yeah, it's probably going to suck when it launches, too.
posted by xedrik at 3:37 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I've been in beta tests for several games of different types.
I was in the alpha and the beta for Final Fantasy 14. Over and over and over we kept submitting reports of major issues, flat-out saying "There is no way this game is remotely ready for launch." They went ahead and shipped it as-is, to meet the Christmas rush, and the rest is history.
So for a game to have serious issues this far along, yeah, it's probably going to suck when it launches, too.
posted by xedrik at 3:37 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
"But remember that this game is an MMO RPG - it is meant to be played in a very different way than standard MMOs, so you do not miss the interaction from other player characters as much as you would in, say, WoW or others. "
I'm not sure what WoW you've been playing, but what you're describing in SWTOR sounds, well, a lot like WoW. Lots of quests, don't talk much to NPC's, they just tell you go to kill things, many things, that often look alike but have different names, lots of keyboard mashing in sequences, and a whole lot of solo content to accompany group content, but if you only play the solo game you're not going to miss out.
WoW is a 'standard' MMO in that it's the 500 pound gorilla and it dominates the market right now so it's what people think of when they hear MMORPG, but it's branded an MMORPG. I'm not sure what you're seeing as the difference here.
posted by FritoKAL at 3:38 PM on August 23, 2011
I'm not sure what WoW you've been playing, but what you're describing in SWTOR sounds, well, a lot like WoW. Lots of quests, don't talk much to NPC's, they just tell you go to kill things, many things, that often look alike but have different names, lots of keyboard mashing in sequences, and a whole lot of solo content to accompany group content, but if you only play the solo game you're not going to miss out.
WoW is a 'standard' MMO in that it's the 500 pound gorilla and it dominates the market right now so it's what people think of when they hear MMORPG, but it's branded an MMORPG. I'm not sure what you're seeing as the difference here.
posted by FritoKAL at 3:38 PM on August 23, 2011
It is worth remembering that Bioware Austin is more or less completely unrelated to the Bioware that made KOTOR, Mass Effect, etc. There's some personnel overlap, but it's basically an Austin MMO studio with the Bioware branding - lot of old Origin, Shadowbane and SWG people. Bioware proper is the studio cranking out Mass Effect and Dragon age sequels at this point.
The forums - oh, god, the forums. Let's just say one of the happiest phone calls of my life was the one where I called Bioware's recruiter and told her I wouldn't be interviewing for a forum mod position there because I'd already accepted a position here.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:38 PM on August 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
The forums - oh, god, the forums. Let's just say one of the happiest phone calls of my life was the one where I called Bioware's recruiter and told her I wouldn't be interviewing for a forum mod position there because I'd already accepted a position here.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:38 PM on August 23, 2011 [6 favorites]
It's a single-player game, expanded. In an MMORPG, it's just a description of the kind of game it is. The way they mean it when they say that is that it's an RPG that's also an MMO - theyre talking about the game genres themselves.
I know it's confusing, but I'm trying to think of a better way to describe it. WoW is different than SWTOR is in this capacity.
posted by perilous at 3:40 PM on August 23, 2011
I know it's confusing, but I'm trying to think of a better way to describe it. WoW is different than SWTOR is in this capacity.
posted by perilous at 3:40 PM on August 23, 2011
"The way they mean it when they say that - " Clarification: The way *BioWare* means it when they say MMO RGP is that it's an RPG that's also an MMO. Game genres, not just game description like MMORPG is for WoW.
Sorry, I have a headache and now I'm sad again, thinking of SWTOR. :( Also, I hate earthquakes.
posted by perilous at 3:42 PM on August 23, 2011
Sorry, I have a headache and now I'm sad again, thinking of SWTOR. :( Also, I hate earthquakes.
posted by perilous at 3:42 PM on August 23, 2011
I miss Asheron's Call.
posted by Max Power at 3:42 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Max Power at 3:42 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
They should wait until the salesman makes his annual visit and buy some bug spray, and consider using research data to boost fun. Maybe this game will make it to the Hall of Fame.
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
The forums - oh, god, the forums. Let's just say one of the happiest phone calls of my life was the one where I called Bioware's recruiter and told her I wouldn't be interviewing for a forum mod position there because I'd already accepted a position here.
Oh god. BSN is like 4chan crossed with the Pit of Voles. So. Fucking. Creepy.
posted by kmz at 3:58 PM on August 23, 2011
Oh god. BSN is like 4chan crossed with the Pit of Voles. So. Fucking. Creepy.
posted by kmz at 3:58 PM on August 23, 2011
God damn it. If only they had made KOTOR3 and 4 instead of this ridiculous MMO. I would've even dealt with, like, in-game stores if it meant something on par with the original KOTOR.
I'm still waiting for the last third of KOTOR2.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:02 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm still waiting for the last third of KOTOR2.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:02 PM on August 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
SW:TOR looks like it's probably not going to be my thing for two reasons. The first is, I play games because I want to spend an hour or so blowing stuff up and discovering the hidden jokes, perhaps cooperatively with family members. I can't stand being on the hook (at $10-25 a month) to play to the expectations of other people. That's too much like work.
The second is I'm really loathing the grimdark/darkgrim turn Bioware has taken with DA2 and ME2:Arrival that coerces you into puppy-kicking and then subjects you to a cut scene on the morality of puppy-kicking in the setting. Thus far, the pre-release hype on the writing of TOR is that it takes both the singularity mass of extended universe lore and the morality of Republic vs. Sith puppy-kicking entirely too seriously. I've just virtually murdered hundreds of mercenaries, zealots, and aberrations to get to the endgame, and now you're taking over the game to lecture me on a choice between dialogue options?
Wildstar impresses me as something with the potential to be both fun and funny. Torchlight 2 is on my must-buy list. Diablo 3 is on the wait-for-sale-if-it-reviews-well list. I'm loving the Champions Online free-to-play because you can't take silver-age crime gangs and singing robot cowboys seriously.
TOR? Probably not.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:07 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
The second is I'm really loathing the grimdark/darkgrim turn Bioware has taken with DA2 and ME2:Arrival that coerces you into puppy-kicking and then subjects you to a cut scene on the morality of puppy-kicking in the setting. Thus far, the pre-release hype on the writing of TOR is that it takes both the singularity mass of extended universe lore and the morality of Republic vs. Sith puppy-kicking entirely too seriously. I've just virtually murdered hundreds of mercenaries, zealots, and aberrations to get to the endgame, and now you're taking over the game to lecture me on a choice between dialogue options?
Wildstar impresses me as something with the potential to be both fun and funny. Torchlight 2 is on my must-buy list. Diablo 3 is on the wait-for-sale-if-it-reviews-well list. I'm loving the Champions Online free-to-play because you can't take silver-age crime gangs and singing robot cowboys seriously.
TOR? Probably not.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:07 PM on August 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm still waiting for the last third of KOTOR2.
Wasn't that Lucas's fault? (Like so many other things.) The story I've always heard is that Lucas forced Obsidian to release the game early to coincide with the release of something else SW related. There's some mods out there for the PC version that try to complete the story based on unused on-disk assets.
posted by kmz at 4:11 PM on August 23, 2011
Wasn't that Lucas's fault? (Like so many other things.) The story I've always heard is that Lucas forced Obsidian to release the game early to coincide with the release of something else SW related. There's some mods out there for the PC version that try to complete the story based on unused on-disk assets.
posted by kmz at 4:11 PM on August 23, 2011
I'm still waiting for the last third of KOTOR2.
Wait no longer: The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod.
posted by gd779 at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2011
Wait no longer: The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod.
posted by gd779 at 4:56 PM on August 23, 2011
Huttball? HUTTBALL? Lucas rapes a little bit more of my childhood.
posted by ciderwoman at 5:21 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by ciderwoman at 5:21 PM on August 23, 2011
I know very well what "beta" means, thanks. At this point, there is so much important stuff that's so badly broken in the game that four more months of beta won't touch it. It requires recoding of large swaths of the game itself.
Yeah, that reminds me of how I felt about FFXIV in the months leading up to its launch. I was pretty amazed that they thought it was in a launchable state, as were many other beta testers. I mean, they had trouble even keeping the servers up long enough for us to test for a few hours at a time, not to mention all the fundamental gameplay issues.
Unsurprisingly, it launched to massive fail. From what I've heard they're still trying to fix it, but I imagine that ship has not just sailed but sunk.
posted by wildcrdj at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that reminds me of how I felt about FFXIV in the months leading up to its launch. I was pretty amazed that they thought it was in a launchable state, as were many other beta testers. I mean, they had trouble even keeping the servers up long enough for us to test for a few hours at a time, not to mention all the fundamental gameplay issues.
Unsurprisingly, it launched to massive fail. From what I've heard they're still trying to fix it, but I imagine that ship has not just sailed but sunk.
posted by wildcrdj at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I loved SWG before the NGE. I had high hopes for TOR. /bummed out
And it looks like SWG is closing this December. That makes me sad, too, although I haven't played in years.
posted by deborah at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
And it looks like SWG is closing this December. That makes me sad, too, although I haven't played in years.
posted by deborah at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm going to re-up my SWG account and take a swing through the galaxy for old time's sake. Then I will go to my favourite area in the game, set up a camp, and watch the sun go down one last time. There will probably be fireworks. I will probably shed a tear.
I was really very invested in SWG on many levels. I've never gotten over the loss of what it could have been, what it once was, and probably we'll never see another game like it. The bad parts of SWG were pretty damn bad, but the good parts were unbelievably cool. No other game has ever held a candle to it in a number of ways. SWTOR? Dont make me laugh.
posted by perilous at 6:01 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was really very invested in SWG on many levels. I've never gotten over the loss of what it could have been, what it once was, and probably we'll never see another game like it. The bad parts of SWG were pretty damn bad, but the good parts were unbelievably cool. No other game has ever held a candle to it in a number of ways. SWTOR? Dont make me laugh.
posted by perilous at 6:01 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Or a RedLetterMedia MMO.
I would put down good money for a version of WOW narrated by Harry S. Plinkett.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:08 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would put down good money for a version of WOW narrated by Harry S. Plinkett.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:08 PM on August 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm still waiting for the last third of KOTOR2 to get past the loading screen.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:01 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by Brocktoon at 7:01 PM on August 23, 2011
I want to set aside some time and get into Spiral Knights
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:10 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:10 PM on August 23, 2011
Is MeFi turning into Kotaku-Reddit-Hacker News?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:56 PM on August 23, 2011
posted by Apocryphon at 10:56 PM on August 23, 2011
Still my fave Star Wars game I've played was Star Wars: Rebellion. Apparently it got butchered in reviews, but man was it fun playing against my roommate back in university. I recall we wouldhit pause and take a break to the balcony for a smoke, and the whole time we'd be silent and staring each other down, like "oh man you are so about to get invaded and you will never see it coming."
posted by Hoopo at 9:23 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Hoopo at 9:23 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is MeFi turning into Kotaku-Reddit-Hacker News?
What would you prefer to read? Post the content you want to see.
posted by adamdschneider at 9:47 AM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
What would you prefer to read? Post the content you want to see.
posted by adamdschneider at 9:47 AM on August 24, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ah man, I've been so stoked for this game too and now le sad :(
[long SWG reminiscing section removed prior to posting]
Sigh.
posted by PlutoniumX at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
[long SWG reminiscing section removed prior to posting]
Sigh.
posted by PlutoniumX at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Fair warning - if you do buy SWTOR, don't buy it digitally through EA's Origin service. The licensing terms for Origin are ridiculous. Buy a physical copy instead. A physical copy doesn't require Origin.
posted by FormlessOne at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by FormlessOne at 11:58 AM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was really very invested in SWG on many levels. I've never gotten over the loss of what it could have been, what it once was, and probably we'll never see another game like it. The bad parts of SWG were pretty damn bad, but the good parts were unbelievably cool. No other game has ever held a candle to it in a number of ways. SWTOR? Dont make me laugh.
I loved the original SWG. I hardly played any game content... I just had this HUUUUUUUUUUUGE mining operation that I attended to. I just leveled up enough to survive random mobs and was a gazillionaire with nothing to spend my money on.
posted by fusinski at 12:26 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I loved the original SWG. I hardly played any game content... I just had this HUUUUUUUUUUUGE mining operation that I attended to. I just leveled up enough to survive random mobs and was a gazillionaire with nothing to spend my money on.
posted by fusinski at 12:26 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
*sigh* I was SO excited about this game. I couldn't contain my glee. Now I'm sad.
(And nervous as a virgin, making my first FFP.)
posted by _paegan_ at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2011
(And nervous as a virgin, making my first FFP.)
posted by _paegan_ at 1:50 PM on August 24, 2011
Is MeFi turning into Kotaku-Reddit-Hacker News?
FWIW, I don't read those. I came to MeFi looking to see what was said about it on the blue. Nothing. So I put something there. It's content I wanted to see.
posted by _paegan_ at 1:52 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
FWIW, I don't read those. I came to MeFi looking to see what was said about it on the blue. Nothing. So I put something there. It's content I wanted to see.
posted by _paegan_ at 1:52 PM on August 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
I started reading MeFi (and joined) only a few months ago, and I guess I've always felt that the content wrt video games were geared towards hipster retro games and noteworthy indie titles. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just surprised that coverage of an upcoming mainstreaming game is getting posted here. I actually prefer this to hipster love of the aforementioned retro 8-bit games, to be honest.
I dp get annoyed by crossposts from Hacker News, because it feels like general/open-ended places are starting to homogenize.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:17 PM on August 24, 2011
I dp get annoyed by crossposts from Hacker News, because it feels like general/open-ended places are starting to homogenize.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:17 PM on August 24, 2011
I started reading MeFi (and joined) only a few months ago, and I guess I've always felt that the content wrt video games were geared towards hipster retro games and noteworthy indie titles. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just surprised that coverage of an upcoming mainstreaming game is getting posted here. I actually prefer this to hipster love of the aforementioned retro 8-bit games, to be honest.
IIRC we've recently had love-in threads for Just Cause 2 and Carmageddon, and general Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever controversy threads.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:24 PM on August 24, 2011
IIRC we've recently had love-in threads for Just Cause 2 and Carmageddon, and general Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever controversy threads.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:24 PM on August 24, 2011
Huttball? HUTTBALL? Lucas rapes a little bit more of my childhood.
Yes, because something you don't like from its preview, in a game based on a property you loved as a child, is EXACTLY like being sexually violated.
And for myself, as a sort who's about as non-PVP as they come, I like the thematic idea of Huttball. It's got kind of a Rollerball/Murderworld feel, which I think is totally in line with the Hutts, so long as they get a cut from every bookie who lays odds on the matches.
posted by Tknophobia at 6:43 PM on August 24, 2011
Yes, because something you don't like from its preview, in a game based on a property you loved as a child, is EXACTLY like being sexually violated.
And for myself, as a sort who's about as non-PVP as they come, I like the thematic idea of Huttball. It's got kind of a Rollerball/Murderworld feel, which I think is totally in line with the Hutts, so long as they get a cut from every bookie who lays odds on the matches.
posted by Tknophobia at 6:43 PM on August 24, 2011
For those who are disappointed, I just want to reiterate here that you could very well be one of the folks who think SWTOR is awesome. I dont know why you or anyone would, but you could be. There are a lot of beta testers who are in love with the game, even while they admit (and defend) all its faults. Most of them behave like fanbois, as far as I'm concerned, but again, that's just my own opinion.
Based on my experiences in the game, I find it inexcusably dull, uninspired, repetitious - all the things I stated in my previous posts and more. With the entire Star Wars universe at their disposal, the fact that they could only come up with what they have at this point would be laughable if it weren't so sad and inexcusable. The game is worth maybe $25, tops, and maybe a $10 monthly sub. But $70 standard / $15 sub? No. Just...no. In fact, hell no.
Also, update on my own preorder status: Now that I've heard that EA's Origins service is basically little more than egregious spyware, I *will* be canceling my preorder directly. Fuck them and their shitty game. The reasons *not* to play are piling up like skulls in a Roman catacomb.
posted by perilous at 5:58 AM on August 25, 2011
Based on my experiences in the game, I find it inexcusably dull, uninspired, repetitious - all the things I stated in my previous posts and more. With the entire Star Wars universe at their disposal, the fact that they could only come up with what they have at this point would be laughable if it weren't so sad and inexcusable. The game is worth maybe $25, tops, and maybe a $10 monthly sub. But $70 standard / $15 sub? No. Just...no. In fact, hell no.
Also, update on my own preorder status: Now that I've heard that EA's Origins service is basically little more than egregious spyware, I *will* be canceling my preorder directly. Fuck them and their shitty game. The reasons *not* to play are piling up like skulls in a Roman catacomb.
posted by perilous at 5:58 AM on August 25, 2011
perilous, I really appreciate your experiences and opinions you've presented - a variety of views is desired. I understand SWTOR may be tres lame for experienced gamers/testers like yourself and am wondering if you could give a snowflake recommendation:
While a fan enough of Star Wars be interested, I'm no fangirl - haven't read the books, joined forums, or owned collectables. Also, I'm new to online MMOs, RPGs and (the combinations of those letters) and have only recently having started with WOWC. These two factors do not leave high expectations but merely an interest in amusing myself. Would you recommend SWTOR with this in mind?
(I have a roommate with an AVID interest hoping for his pre-order by the holidays, but willing to wait. It will be in my home eventually anyway.)
posted by _paegan_ at 8:52 AM on August 25, 2011
While a fan enough of Star Wars be interested, I'm no fangirl - haven't read the books, joined forums, or owned collectables. Also, I'm new to online MMOs, RPGs and (the combinations of those letters) and have only recently having started with WOWC. These two factors do not leave high expectations but merely an interest in amusing myself. Would you recommend SWTOR with this in mind?
(I have a roommate with an AVID interest hoping for his pre-order by the holidays, but willing to wait. It will be in my home eventually anyway.)
posted by _paegan_ at 8:52 AM on August 25, 2011
recently having started.
Ugh. I get why an edit pony is a bad idea, but if I had a magic wand...
posted by _paegan_ at 8:54 AM on August 25, 2011
Ugh. I get why an edit pony is a bad idea, but if I had a magic wand...
posted by _paegan_ at 8:54 AM on August 25, 2011
On the bright side, I can focus my attentions to Guild Wars 2 then.
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on August 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 4:28 PM on August 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
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posted by Renoroc at 2:38 PM on August 23, 2011