He Was a Crook
October 1, 2011 6:09 PM Subscribe
"Nixon will be remembered as a classic case of a smart man sh*tting in his own nest. But he also sh*t in our nests, and that was the crime that history will burn on his memory like a brand." Hunter S. Thompson eulogizes Richard Milhous Nixon.
Nixon would be run out of town today for being a socialist liberal.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
One of my favorite eulogies ever:
If the right people had been in charge of Nixon's funeral, his casket would have been launched into one of those open-sewage canals that empty into the ocean just south of Los Angeles. He was a swine of a man and a jabbering dupe of a president. Nixon was so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning. Even his funeral was illegal. He was queer in the deepest way. His body should have been burned in a trash bin.
posted by nevercalm at 6:20 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
If the right people had been in charge of Nixon's funeral, his casket would have been launched into one of those open-sewage canals that empty into the ocean just south of Los Angeles. He was a swine of a man and a jabbering dupe of a president. Nixon was so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning. Even his funeral was illegal. He was queer in the deepest way. His body should have been burned in a trash bin.
posted by nevercalm at 6:20 PM on October 1, 2011 [5 favorites]
Hah, a mere burglary got him ousted -- when our current president is killing American citizens by executive order. Trial by loud assertion in the media is sufficient, these days, for a death sentence.
Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed and murdered. There are lots of other examples.
I'm not trying to excuse Obama's decision to nuke that guy, but if you really think he's reached some new low, then I think your perception of history is... a bit lacking.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:22 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed and murdered. There are lots of other examples.
I'm not trying to excuse Obama's decision to nuke that guy, but if you really think he's reached some new low, then I think your perception of history is... a bit lacking.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:22 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
He's a bleedin' saint compared to recent POTUSes.
Here we go again.
Sorry, but this is a lot of ignorance.
Let me know the next time a president sends armed militia to raid his own Attorney General's office to destroy evidence.
posted by victors at 6:25 PM on October 1, 2011 [16 favorites]
Here we go again.
Sorry, but this is a lot of ignorance.
Let me know the next time a president sends armed militia to raid his own Attorney General's office to destroy evidence.
posted by victors at 6:25 PM on October 1, 2011 [16 favorites]
That's a hell of an article. We need more writers like Hunter.
posted by arcticseal at 6:32 PM on October 1, 2011
posted by arcticseal at 6:32 PM on October 1, 2011
Hunter was right, and his fury was righteous and pure, and he used his monumental talent to try to tell the truth and expose the rot at the heart of the republic, and the great thing was that even in the throes of his rage and chemical abuse, he was hilarious.
I wish we had more like him. Today, other than Stephen Colbert and Matt Taibbi, I can't think of many who do what he did anywhere near as well.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
I wish we had more like him. Today, other than Stephen Colbert and Matt Taibbi, I can't think of many who do what he did anywhere near as well.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [12 favorites]
You actually can hear him reading the last two paragraphs, remixed by Paul Oakenfold.
posted by em at 6:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by em at 6:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
He was human like all of us, he had good and bad qualitys... He who is without fault, cast the first stone...
posted by MetaRoc at 6:40 PM on October 1, 2011
posted by MetaRoc at 6:40 PM on October 1, 2011
If you want to know how our political system can sink so much further compared to the worst of the Nixon era, have a look at Fourth Estate luminary Hunter S. Thompson, and his effect on the quality of discourse in the country.
posted by ocschwar at 6:45 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 6:45 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Nixon got caught. He made a number of mistakes. He was the one of the first true Plutocratic Presidents. Those who have followed in his wake have been more carefully chosen by the corporate sponsors of our slippery-slope democracy; those corporate sponsors are close to concocting the perfect recipe.
Don't waste your breath on Nixon; look for legal ways to take your country back. Start by getting the money out of politics.
posted by Vibrissae at 6:46 PM on October 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
Don't waste your breath on Nixon; look for legal ways to take your country back. Start by getting the money out of politics.
posted by Vibrissae at 6:46 PM on October 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
Naw. Nixon will be remembered for this.
posted by Doohickie at 6:53 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Doohickie at 6:53 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
.
Where have you gone, Spider Jerusalem?
posted by butterstick at 6:53 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
Where have you gone, Spider Jerusalem?
posted by butterstick at 6:53 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
Let me know the next time a president sends armed militia to raid his own Attorney General's office to destroy evidence.
We'll never hear about the next time. We'll "move forward".
posted by DU at 6:58 PM on October 1, 2011 [9 favorites]
We'll never hear about the next time. We'll "move forward".
posted by DU at 6:58 PM on October 1, 2011 [9 favorites]
If you want to know how our political system can sink so much further compared to the worst of the Nixon era, have a look at Fourth Estate luminary Hunter S. Thompson, and his effect on the quality of discourse in the country.
Yes, of course. The decline of the American conversation into warring camps of semi-literate, poorly-informed bellowing ideologues clamoring for their moments of airtime is all Hunter S Thompson's fault. It's a straight line from him to Glenn Beck, and the failure of American media to inform a populace so weary of a broken political system bought and paid for by moneyed interests can be laid right at his feet. How could I not have seen that until now?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:59 PM on October 1, 2011 [42 favorites]
Yes, of course. The decline of the American conversation into warring camps of semi-literate, poorly-informed bellowing ideologues clamoring for their moments of airtime is all Hunter S Thompson's fault. It's a straight line from him to Glenn Beck, and the failure of American media to inform a populace so weary of a broken political system bought and paid for by moneyed interests can be laid right at his feet. How could I not have seen that until now?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:59 PM on October 1, 2011 [42 favorites]
It is a judgment on me that I didn't really discover HST until he was dead.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:10 PM on October 1, 2011
posted by adamdschneider at 7:10 PM on October 1, 2011
The only obituary essays I can think of that quite reach that level of articulate and scathing anger are by H.L. Mencken, written about William Jennings Bryan (The Baltimore Evening Sun, the American Mercury.)
posted by ubersturm at 7:12 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by ubersturm at 7:12 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
Don't waste your breath on Nixon; look for legal ways to take your country back. Start by getting the money out of politics.
It's possible to study history and at the same time work for a better future. In fact I'd highly recommend that one does the first before attempting the second.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:16 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
It's possible to study history and at the same time work for a better future. In fact I'd highly recommend that one does the first before attempting the second.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:16 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
"Yes, of course. The decline of the American conversation into warring camps of semi-literate, poorly-informed bellowing ideologues clamoring for their moments of airtime is all Hunter S Thompson's fault. It's a straight line from him to Glenn Beck, and the failure of American media to inform a populace so weary of a broken political system bought and paid for by moneyed interests can be laid right at his feet."
Sarcasm aside, it's not a particularly long bow to draw. You've just got to look at what was really the core appeal of his writing - the style. The bellicose, OTT, slyly-knowing yet ranting polemic style, coupled with his induction of the reader into a group of knowing cognoscenti based on their exisiting political leanings - the very style that Thompson popularised - forms the core of what now passes instead of genuine political debate, and has been co-opted by the most popular pundits on both sides.
Yes, there is a straight line from Hunter S. Thompson to Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh. There's also a straight line from Hunter S. Thompson to Stephen Colbert, Matt Taibbi, and Jon Stewart.
Thompson grabbed minds with his style. It'd been done before him (the very patrician, "let-me-sit-you-down-and-explain-things-logically-so-you-know-everything-I'm-saying-is-right" style was once popular), but styles change and the effect wears off. His style is still a remarkably effective method strategy, so others have co-opted that and use it to their own advantage.
posted by Pinback at 7:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
Sarcasm aside, it's not a particularly long bow to draw. You've just got to look at what was really the core appeal of his writing - the style. The bellicose, OTT, slyly-knowing yet ranting polemic style, coupled with his induction of the reader into a group of knowing cognoscenti based on their exisiting political leanings - the very style that Thompson popularised - forms the core of what now passes instead of genuine political debate, and has been co-opted by the most popular pundits on both sides.
Yes, there is a straight line from Hunter S. Thompson to Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh. There's also a straight line from Hunter S. Thompson to Stephen Colbert, Matt Taibbi, and Jon Stewart.
Thompson grabbed minds with his style. It'd been done before him (the very patrician, "let-me-sit-you-down-and-explain-things-logically-so-you-know-everything-I'm-saying-is-right" style was once popular), but styles change and the effect wears off. His style is still a remarkably effective method strategy, so others have co-opted that and use it to their own advantage.
posted by Pinback at 7:19 PM on October 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
It is a judgment on me that I didn't really discover HST until he was dead.
No. You discover HST when you're ready for him, when you're open to him, and when you need him the most.
We need him now more than ever.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:22 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
No. You discover HST when you're ready for him, when you're open to him, and when you need him the most.
We need him now more than ever.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:22 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
You've just got to look at what was really the core appeal of his writing - the style. The bellicose, OTT, slyly-knowing yet ranting polemic style, coupled with his induction of the reader into a group of knowing cognoscenti based on their exisiting political leanings
Pedagogues have always been a part of the American press... Sam Adams (the beer guy) practically invented the American Revolution with bombast and "style."
HST was something different. He's our St. Germain, our Caine, marked and cast out, but a bearer of a terrible truth we must heed.
Thomspon's task was to re-engage and entire generation who had devoted themselves to "dropping out", to collect and marshal the scattered and defeated remnants of the amazing revolution of the '60s... and he knew, knew from the start he would never succeed. He could only chronicle our defeat, explain how it happened, and arm and energize those who would come after with the truth, because the truth is always a product of those who seek it, and never an absolute.
In this is hope.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
Pedagogues have always been a part of the American press... Sam Adams (the beer guy) practically invented the American Revolution with bombast and "style."
HST was something different. He's our St. Germain, our Caine, marked and cast out, but a bearer of a terrible truth we must heed.
Thomspon's task was to re-engage and entire generation who had devoted themselves to "dropping out", to collect and marshal the scattered and defeated remnants of the amazing revolution of the '60s... and he knew, knew from the start he would never succeed. He could only chronicle our defeat, explain how it happened, and arm and energize those who would come after with the truth, because the truth is always a product of those who seek it, and never an absolute.
In this is hope.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
The point of Thompson's style was that you couldn't have a decline in the American conversation because the conversation wasn't interested in facts at all. Report facts and it sounded hallucinatory to most people.
That is exactly the same as now. Our bizarro press is precisely the same as it was when Thompson was talking football with Nixon in his limo.
And it's also was one of the things that pained him deeply enough to generate that heat of rage. He couldn't understand why people that insisted on maintaining control of their faculties could have so little interest in reality.
And this FPP has absolutely got to be at least a double.
posted by dglynn at 7:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
That is exactly the same as now. Our bizarro press is precisely the same as it was when Thompson was talking football with Nixon in his limo.
And it's also was one of the things that pained him deeply enough to generate that heat of rage. He couldn't understand why people that insisted on maintaining control of their faculties could have so little interest in reality.
And this FPP has absolutely got to be at least a double.
posted by dglynn at 7:37 PM on October 1, 2011 [7 favorites]
I don't understand how anyone could draw a line from HST to Beck. Yes, Thompson was hyperbolic but it was in the service of truth and he was a genius with words. Beck is a blatant liar and a fool. HST was a goddamn genius.
posted by Mavri at 7:38 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 7:38 PM on October 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Geeeeeezusssss crist? What is wrong with you people. Do you know anything about Nixon?
He killed an American -- in a war zone in a enemy camp engaged in attacks on US soldiers. You have about a million better cases against Lincoln, don't you, fools?
Now, if you want to argue against this stupid fucked up war, that's a different matter. But the creeps that are now whining won't do that, no, no, no, no. It was started by a good man, and it's only "that one" that does do bad things. F-ing hypocrites. If you fight the war than you fight it. Now, come up with a way Obama could have got out of this crap 43 started, I'd really like to hear it, a way that people in the Repuplican party, and a lot like you would not be yelling? Tell me! Me mail. But you andd I know it will all be bull shit.
Now, go out and vote for the party that destroyed the worlds economy four years ago, and that have fought every imaginable way to help fix it. (If you don't believe that even sane right wing economist think that is what they've done, read up, or shut up)
Because Santorum, Perry, Romney, Buchmann are just waiting to Santorum me and you, friends
posted by Webnym at 7:42 PM on October 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
He killed an American -- in a war zone in a enemy camp engaged in attacks on US soldiers. You have about a million better cases against Lincoln, don't you, fools?
Now, if you want to argue against this stupid fucked up war, that's a different matter. But the creeps that are now whining won't do that, no, no, no, no. It was started by a good man, and it's only "that one" that does do bad things. F-ing hypocrites. If you fight the war than you fight it. Now, come up with a way Obama could have got out of this crap 43 started, I'd really like to hear it, a way that people in the Repuplican party, and a lot like you would not be yelling? Tell me! Me mail. But you andd I know it will all be bull shit.
Now, go out and vote for the party that destroyed the worlds economy four years ago, and that have fought every imaginable way to help fix it. (If you don't believe that even sane right wing economist think that is what they've done, read up, or shut up)
Because Santorum, Perry, Romney, Buchmann are just waiting to Santorum me and you, friends
posted by Webnym at 7:42 PM on October 1, 2011 [4 favorites]
Yes, there is a straight line from Hunter S. Thompson to Glenn Beck & Rush Limbaugh.
Hunter S. Thompson was a journalist. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are entertainers. There's no comparison- one was a professional who deeply believed in the things he wrote and the importance of digging deep into whatever craziness lay under the bullshit, the other two are the bullshit.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:00 PM on October 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
Hunter S. Thompson was a journalist. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are entertainers. There's no comparison- one was a professional who deeply believed in the things he wrote and the importance of digging deep into whatever craziness lay under the bullshit, the other two are the bullshit.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:00 PM on October 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
He's a bleedin' saint compared to recent POTUSes.
Christopher Hitchens:
"In the fall of 1968, Richard Nixon and some of his emissaries and underlings set out to sabotage the Paris peace negotiations on Vietnam. The means they chose were simple: they privately assured the South Vietnamese military rulers that an incoming Republican regime would offer them a better deal than would a Democratic one. In this way, they undercut both the talks themselves and the electoral strategy of Vice President Hubert Humphrey. The tactic worked, in that the South Vietnamese junta withdrew from the talks on the eve of the election, thereby destroying the peace initiative on which the Democrats had based their campaign. In another way, it did not work, because four years later the Nixon Administration tried to conclude the war on the same terms that had been on offer in Paris. The reason for the dead silence that still surrounds the question is that in those intervening years some 20,000 Americans and an uncalculated number of Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians lost their lives. Lost them, that is to say, even more pointlessly than had those slain up to that point."
posted by Adventurer at 8:26 PM on October 1, 2011 [32 favorites]
Christopher Hitchens:
"In the fall of 1968, Richard Nixon and some of his emissaries and underlings set out to sabotage the Paris peace negotiations on Vietnam. The means they chose were simple: they privately assured the South Vietnamese military rulers that an incoming Republican regime would offer them a better deal than would a Democratic one. In this way, they undercut both the talks themselves and the electoral strategy of Vice President Hubert Humphrey. The tactic worked, in that the South Vietnamese junta withdrew from the talks on the eve of the election, thereby destroying the peace initiative on which the Democrats had based their campaign. In another way, it did not work, because four years later the Nixon Administration tried to conclude the war on the same terms that had been on offer in Paris. The reason for the dead silence that still surrounds the question is that in those intervening years some 20,000 Americans and an uncalculated number of Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians lost their lives. Lost them, that is to say, even more pointlessly than had those slain up to that point."
posted by Adventurer at 8:26 PM on October 1, 2011 [32 favorites]
If you want to know how our political system can sink so much further compared to the worst of the Nixon era, have a look at Fourth Estate luminary Hunter S. Thompson, and his effect on the quality of discourse in the country.
I could see maybe Ann Coulter taking a page from him, or thinking she was, but the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are Father Coughlin wannabes, and there's not much Fox does that hadn't already been invented by the likes of William Randolph Hearst. What happened to the real mainstream media is something else. Their problem is that they will not -- here I'm thinking especially of the likes of Meet the Press -- seriously question any mainstream argument whose proponents are likely to call them "biased," even when that argument is built on easily-dismantled lies any real journalist should feel a responsibility to fact-check before passing on to the public. It's cowardice and a desire to ingratiate, and that has nothing to do with Thompson.
posted by Adventurer at 9:00 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
I could see maybe Ann Coulter taking a page from him, or thinking she was, but the likes of Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are Father Coughlin wannabes, and there's not much Fox does that hadn't already been invented by the likes of William Randolph Hearst. What happened to the real mainstream media is something else. Their problem is that they will not -- here I'm thinking especially of the likes of Meet the Press -- seriously question any mainstream argument whose proponents are likely to call them "biased," even when that argument is built on easily-dismantled lies any real journalist should feel a responsibility to fact-check before passing on to the public. It's cowardice and a desire to ingratiate, and that has nothing to do with Thompson.
posted by Adventurer at 9:00 PM on October 1, 2011 [6 favorites]
He wrote about watching Nixon helicopter away from the White House for the last time, then going to a bar popular with reporters. He described the profound gloom of the political junkies who understood that there would never be that kind of high again.
posted by Trurl at 9:07 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Trurl at 9:07 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
MetaRoc, your Jesusing rings hollow.
Bring his fucking body. I got my stones ready.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:10 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Bring his fucking body. I got my stones ready.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:10 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Now, come up with a way Obama could have got out of this crap 43 started, I'd really like to hear it, a way that people in the Repuplican party, and a lot like you would not be yelling? Tell me! Me mail. But you andd I know it will all be bull shit.
Really? All the troops from Iraq, home, now. Troops from Afghanistan, home, now. Consider to hunt Bin Laden as he did, with Special Forces. Simple. Guantanamo: closed. All inmates get a trial in federal court or are released. Simple. No more torture. Simple. People who broke the law in the Bush administration go to jail. Simple.
About "republicans yelling:"
a) They're not "yelling" anyway.
b) who gives a FUCK??? Me and every other liberal complained about Bush, his approval rating was under 30 by the end and he sure did what he wanted anyway. I will never get this idea that Obama wants to do good but is somehow hamstrung by the baddie republicans who will yell at him. He is the President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world. He can do what he chooses, and what he chooses is to subvert the Constitution in a way that is potentially fatal to our democracy. I'd also ask what the point of being elected was, if you don't intend to do anything that might piss off the opposition. It's not an end of itself.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:13 PM on October 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
Really? All the troops from Iraq, home, now. Troops from Afghanistan, home, now. Consider to hunt Bin Laden as he did, with Special Forces. Simple. Guantanamo: closed. All inmates get a trial in federal court or are released. Simple. No more torture. Simple. People who broke the law in the Bush administration go to jail. Simple.
About "republicans yelling:"
a) They're not "yelling" anyway.
b) who gives a FUCK??? Me and every other liberal complained about Bush, his approval rating was under 30 by the end and he sure did what he wanted anyway. I will never get this idea that Obama wants to do good but is somehow hamstrung by the baddie republicans who will yell at him. He is the President of the USA, the most powerful man in the world. He can do what he chooses, and what he chooses is to subvert the Constitution in a way that is potentially fatal to our democracy. I'd also ask what the point of being elected was, if you don't intend to do anything that might piss off the opposition. It's not an end of itself.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:13 PM on October 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
These things are not optional. They are the bedrock of our democracy and the principles on which our country was founded. To say that because his predecessor started them so there he must continue them is, pardon me, horseshit. Not only does he not "have to," his continuation of them makes him a war criminal too.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Allow me to repeat myself from a previous thread:
Richard M Nixon was a complex man and a master politician. The fact that some of his policies (from 40+ years back) seem liberal now is far more a reflection of how times (and overall thinking) have changed, not the man's personal politics. He was the definition of machiavellian, a man who made his initial name by riding the coat-tails of Joseph McCarthy, a political animal who would have flourished in any culture ... which probably explains how he managed to connect so well with Mao.
Nixon (probably Oliver Stone's best movie) captures this very well.
posted by philip-random at 9:32 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Richard M Nixon was a complex man and a master politician. The fact that some of his policies (from 40+ years back) seem liberal now is far more a reflection of how times (and overall thinking) have changed, not the man's personal politics. He was the definition of machiavellian, a man who made his initial name by riding the coat-tails of Joseph McCarthy, a political animal who would have flourished in any culture ... which probably explains how he managed to connect so well with Mao.
Nixon (probably Oliver Stone's best movie) captures this very well.
posted by philip-random at 9:32 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Mod note: can we stick to talking about Nixon and leave Obama and Bush out of this?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:33 PM on October 1, 2011 [8 favorites]
Let me know the next time a president sends armed militia to raid his own Attorney General's office to destroy evidence.
I'm sure that the next time it is necessay for evidence in the Attorney-General's office to be destroyed, there will be no need for a militia.
Anyone else read Our Gang? It's the second-best literary memorial to Nixon, after Thompson's eulogy.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 10:03 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that the next time it is necessay for evidence in the Attorney-General's office to be destroyed, there will be no need for a militia.
Anyone else read Our Gang? It's the second-best literary memorial to Nixon, after Thompson's eulogy.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 10:03 PM on October 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed and murdered. There are lots of other examples.
Yeah, but...in Texas
posted by Hoopo at 10:49 PM on October 1, 2011
Yeah, but...in Texas
posted by Hoopo at 10:49 PM on October 1, 2011
Pedagogues have always been a part of the American press...
I think you mean demagogue. A pedagogue is more like a teacher.
posted by Mars Saxman at 11:24 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think you mean demagogue. A pedagogue is more like a teacher.
posted by Mars Saxman at 11:24 PM on October 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
The more things change, the more things stay the fucking same.
I'm not talking about Presidents, I'm talking about their critics.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:30 AM on October 2, 2011
I'm not talking about Presidents, I'm talking about their critics.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:30 AM on October 2, 2011
Let me know the next time a president sends armed militia to raid his own Attorney General's office to destroy evidence.
Indeed. Though truly, the thirst for power is almost a universal, and the urge to sate reactionary passions exceedingly common. The key difference is that Nixon operated in an era when the political institutions would not accept his ends, so his means became corrupt to bypass and subvert the institutions: He was a crook. Today, the entire political body of our nation is insanely corrupt, and what Nixon had to do illegally is done, today, openly and nakedly and without shame.
So whatever one can say about [those Presidents this thread is not about], they haven't had to do it by underhanded crookery.
There are a number of threads here, such as Ailes, Fox, and the GOP propaganda wars; Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy; Citizens United and the recent history of money in politics; regulatory capture of Congress. It isn't just one thing. But it's a world of difference for a President to assert power that is backed by a pliant Congress and Court, and for one to subvert that power in the service of destroying the capability of those institutions to oppose him. That was how Nixon was a crook.
posted by dhartung at 12:34 AM on October 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
Indeed. Though truly, the thirst for power is almost a universal, and the urge to sate reactionary passions exceedingly common. The key difference is that Nixon operated in an era when the political institutions would not accept his ends, so his means became corrupt to bypass and subvert the institutions: He was a crook. Today, the entire political body of our nation is insanely corrupt, and what Nixon had to do illegally is done, today, openly and nakedly and without shame.
So whatever one can say about [those Presidents this thread is not about], they haven't had to do it by underhanded crookery.
There are a number of threads here, such as Ailes, Fox, and the GOP propaganda wars; Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy; Citizens United and the recent history of money in politics; regulatory capture of Congress. It isn't just one thing. But it's a world of difference for a President to assert power that is backed by a pliant Congress and Court, and for one to subvert that power in the service of destroying the capability of those institutions to oppose him. That was how Nixon was a crook.
posted by dhartung at 12:34 AM on October 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
I hadn't read this in years. One of my all-time favorite pieces of writing; it's brilliant. Reminds me that I need to bring pigfucker back into my vocabulary.
The only obituary essays I can think of that quite reach that level of articulate and scathing anger are by H.L. Mencken, written about William Jennings Bryan (The Baltimore Evening Sun, the American Mercury.)
Thanks, I'd never seen those. The Nixon obit shows up by way of an interview in which HST cites Mencken's Byran obit as the inspiration behind his of Nixon.
posted by lost_cause at 5:38 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
The only obituary essays I can think of that quite reach that level of articulate and scathing anger are by H.L. Mencken, written about William Jennings Bryan (The Baltimore Evening Sun, the American Mercury.)
Thanks, I'd never seen those. The Nixon obit shows up by way of an interview in which HST cites Mencken's Byran obit as the inspiration behind his of Nixon.
posted by lost_cause at 5:38 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's pretty easy, really, to look at the past 30+ years of political discourse as simply Conservatives attempting to bring-down Democrats in a similar way that Nixon was toppled. Trying to even the score, if you will, by any means necessary.
They thought they had their moment in Clinton, but he dodged that bullet. This simply served to push Conservatives even further over the edge into the full-on batshit craziness we suffer from today.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:01 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
They thought they had their moment in Clinton, but he dodged that bullet. This simply served to push Conservatives even further over the edge into the full-on batshit craziness we suffer from today.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:01 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Some people will say that words like scum and rotten are wrong for Objective Journalism -- which is true, but they miss the point. It was the built-in blind spots of the Objective rules and dogma that allowed Nixon to slither into the White House in the first place. He looked so good on paper that you could almost vote for him sight unseen. He seemed so all-American, so much like Horatio Alger, that he was able to slip through the cracks of Objective Journalism. You had to get Subjective to see Nixon clearly, and the shock of recognition was often painful.
Dick Cheney and GW slithered through the same cracks.
posted by caddis at 7:01 AM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Dick Cheney and GW slithered through the same cracks.
posted by caddis at 7:01 AM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
They thought they had their moment in Clinton, but he dodged that bullet.
Better he had resigned as well.
Seriously. For all the ill Nixon did, he at least left voluntarily when the jig was up. Clinton by contrast lies under oath, gets caught, and then brazens it out. In the end considers himself too special, too important, too vital to hand the reins over to the next in line.*
Well, eff him too. Just lowers the bar a few more notches and makes shamelessness a viable career maneuver. I don't much like Obama, but he at least gives the appearance of dignity.
*(And just imagine if he had - Gore in the driver's seat at the time of 9/11. Would that have mattered? Impossible to know, but he could hardly have done worse than Bush.)
posted by IndigoJones at 8:08 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Better he had resigned as well.
Seriously. For all the ill Nixon did, he at least left voluntarily when the jig was up. Clinton by contrast lies under oath, gets caught, and then brazens it out. In the end considers himself too special, too important, too vital to hand the reins over to the next in line.*
Well, eff him too. Just lowers the bar a few more notches and makes shamelessness a viable career maneuver. I don't much like Obama, but he at least gives the appearance of dignity.
*(And just imagine if he had - Gore in the driver's seat at the time of 9/11. Would that have mattered? Impossible to know, but he could hardly have done worse than Bush.)
posted by IndigoJones at 8:08 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
That is Watergate, in a nut, for people with seriously diminished attention spans. The real story is a lot longer and reads like a textbook on human treachery. They were all scum, but only Nixon walked free and lived to clear his name.If only that last sentence were true.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:45 AM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Seriously. For all the ill Nixon did, he at least left voluntarily when the jig was up. Clinton by contrast lies under oath, gets caught, and then brazens it out.
The difference is that Nixon actually, y'know, violated criminal laws and directed the cover-up of those crimes from the Oval Office. Clinton, on the other hand, was simply stupid in the manner with which he lived his personal life. Also, he understood that the Republican attempt to unseat him was nothing more than trumped-up charges and political gamesmanship. He simply played their little cynical game better.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:48 AM on October 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
The difference is that Nixon actually, y'know, violated criminal laws and directed the cover-up of those crimes from the Oval Office. Clinton, on the other hand, was simply stupid in the manner with which he lived his personal life. Also, he understood that the Republican attempt to unseat him was nothing more than trumped-up charges and political gamesmanship. He simply played their little cynical game better.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:48 AM on October 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
Clinton, on the other hand, was simply stupid in the manner with which he lived his personal life.
There was also that part about lying under oath which is what actually got him impeached. Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:11 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
There was also that part about lying under oath which is what actually got him impeached. Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 10:11 AM on October 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
Exactly.
I think he rolled the dice on the whole affair, and just went along with the theater the Republicans were playing.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:13 AM on October 2, 2011
Exactly.
I think he rolled the dice on the whole affair, and just went along with the theater the Republicans were playing.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:13 AM on October 2, 2011
And this FPP has absolutely got to be at least a double.
That's what I figured, but I couldn't find it and it doesn't look like anybody else has either.
posted by HotPants at 11:35 AM on October 2, 2011
That's what I figured, but I couldn't find it and it doesn't look like anybody else has either.
posted by HotPants at 11:35 AM on October 2, 2011
Reminds me that I need to bring pigfucker back into my vocabulary.
Indeed. A little unfair to pigs, but then so's pigfucking, I guess.
Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
Exactly.
I think he rolled the dice on the whole affair, and just went along with the theater the Republicans were playing.
Speaking of pigfucking (and I'm not referring to Monica L here), I didn't pay much attention to all that bullshit back when it was going down ... but I do recall catching some key moment wherein President Clinton was staring down the prosecution and playing cynical word-games (dancing around the meaning of "sex"), lying when he needed to, and otherwise fucking with them. What struck me was just how profound his loathing was for the people sitting across the table from him (and thus all of Moral America), how utterly he despised their cynicism (on the part of the leaders) and ignorance (on the part of the followers) and how the two were combining to STOP all meaningful political progress in its tracks ... all because of a few blowjobs.
Strangely, I remember suddenly feeling respect for Clinton at that moment. Yeah, he was no saint, but neither is anyone else I've ever met. What he did have was a sense of priority which, sadly, America as a whole still doesn't seem close to having when it comes to "personal affairs". And thus this lack of priority gets played again and again by certain cynical pigfuckers in positions of influence.
posted by philip-random at 12:11 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Indeed. A little unfair to pigs, but then so's pigfucking, I guess.
Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
Exactly.
I think he rolled the dice on the whole affair, and just went along with the theater the Republicans were playing.
Speaking of pigfucking (and I'm not referring to Monica L here), I didn't pay much attention to all that bullshit back when it was going down ... but I do recall catching some key moment wherein President Clinton was staring down the prosecution and playing cynical word-games (dancing around the meaning of "sex"), lying when he needed to, and otherwise fucking with them. What struck me was just how profound his loathing was for the people sitting across the table from him (and thus all of Moral America), how utterly he despised their cynicism (on the part of the leaders) and ignorance (on the part of the followers) and how the two were combining to STOP all meaningful political progress in its tracks ... all because of a few blowjobs.
Strangely, I remember suddenly feeling respect for Clinton at that moment. Yeah, he was no saint, but neither is anyone else I've ever met. What he did have was a sense of priority which, sadly, America as a whole still doesn't seem close to having when it comes to "personal affairs". And thus this lack of priority gets played again and again by certain cynical pigfuckers in positions of influence.
posted by philip-random at 12:11 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you want to know how our political system can sink so much further compared to the worst of the Nixon era, have a look at Fourth Estate luminary Hunter S. Thompson, and his effect on the quality of discourse in the country.
Despite his weird facade, HST help deeply humane values. Just read his stuff on Jimmy Carter (whom he supported for president) for example.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:13 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Despite his weird facade, HST help deeply humane values. Just read his stuff on Jimmy Carter (whom he supported for president) for example.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:13 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Dick Cheney and GW slithered through the same cracks.
Rumsfeld and Cheney were a couple of Nixon White House retreads.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:15 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rumsfeld and Cheney were a couple of Nixon White House retreads.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:15 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rumsfeld and Cheney were a couple of Nixon White House retreads.
As is Roger Ailes.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 2:14 PM on October 2, 2011
As is Roger Ailes.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 2:14 PM on October 2, 2011
And Pat Buchanan.
And Roger Stone, founder of Citizens United Not Timid, later renamed Citizens United for their Supreme Court case.
And George H.W. Bush was his ambassador to the UN from 1971-1973.
It was like the Reptile House at the zoo.
posted by dglynn at 2:51 PM on October 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
And Roger Stone, founder of Citizens United Not Timid, later renamed Citizens United for their Supreme Court case.
And George H.W. Bush was his ambassador to the UN from 1971-1973.
It was like the Reptile House at the zoo.
posted by dglynn at 2:51 PM on October 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
Whenever I talk about HST I feel like Dennis Hopper's character in Apocalypse Now.
"He's a scholar, maaaaannnn! He KNOWS things, maaaan! He's not a stooge for the man, MAAAAAAANNNNNN!"
Seriously, educators should use him as an example in English classes. "Write whatever the fuck you want, but do it well, so I'll want to read it and not think that you're wasting my time."
posted by snsranch at 2:52 PM on October 2, 2011
"He's a scholar, maaaaannnn! He KNOWS things, maaaan! He's not a stooge for the man, MAAAAAAANNNNNN!"
Seriously, educators should use him as an example in English classes. "Write whatever the fuck you want, but do it well, so I'll want to read it and not think that you're wasting my time."
posted by snsranch at 2:52 PM on October 2, 2011
Style note: The word "shit" is spelled with an i, not an asterisk. Thompson, Rolling Stone, and the Atlantic all seem to have been comfortable with this.
You do Thompson's memory a disservice by bowdlerizing his words, since the specific vocabulary was essential to the rage and frustration he went to such lengths to communicate. If your audience is capable of hearing the import of the message, why not the contents?
posted by AkzidenzGrotesk at 3:13 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
You do Thompson's memory a disservice by bowdlerizing his words, since the specific vocabulary was essential to the rage and frustration he went to such lengths to communicate. If your audience is capable of hearing the import of the message, why not the contents?
posted by AkzidenzGrotesk at 3:13 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Possibily HST could have better explained the utter nonsense underlying the Great Financial Disarray, that increasingly looks like a massive make-believe pillaging scheme so warped even Nixon would have distanced himself.
posted by elpapacito at 3:28 PM on October 2, 2011
posted by elpapacito at 3:28 PM on October 2, 2011
It's possible to study history and at the same time work for a better future. In fact I'd highly recommend that one does the first before attempting the second
It's also possible to get hooked on nostalgia and thus scatter one's energy among the already-converted choir.
posted by Vibrissae at 7:03 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's also possible to get hooked on nostalgia and thus scatter one's energy among the already-converted choir.
posted by Vibrissae at 7:03 PM on October 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
From Hey Rube, one of my favorite quotes of all time, discussing how Al Gore would never be president, when he saw the Bush family on television...
"Here was the whole bloody Family laughing & hooting & sneering at the dumbness of the whole world on National TV. The old man was the real tip-off. The leer on his face was almost frightening. It was like looking into the eyes of a tall hyena with a living sheep in its mouth. The sheep's fate was sealed, and so was Al Gore's.
posted by Oyéah at 8:11 PM on October 2, 2011
"Here was the whole bloody Family laughing & hooting & sneering at the dumbness of the whole world on National TV. The old man was the real tip-off. The leer on his face was almost frightening. It was like looking into the eyes of a tall hyena with a living sheep in its mouth. The sheep's fate was sealed, and so was Al Gore's.
posted by Oyéah at 8:11 PM on October 2, 2011
Style note: The word "shit" is spelled with an i, not an asterisk.
Waitaminnit...you mean HotPants' "sh*t" actually means "shit"?
( pales in shock, fans himself furiously )
I don't even want to know what "f*ck" means, then! No, don't tell me! I don't want to know!
/ bowdlerism is stoopid.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:42 PM on October 2, 2011
Waitaminnit...you mean HotPants' "sh*t" actually means "shit"?
( pales in shock, fans himself furiously )
I don't even want to know what "f*ck" means, then! No, don't tell me! I don't want to know!
/ bowdlerism is stoopid.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:42 PM on October 2, 2011
There was also that part about lying under oath which is what actually got him impeached. Granted that it was pretty ridiculous that it actually got to the point where he was being questioned about his sexual exploits.
Let's view the age clearly, now. Clinton lying under oath about a blow job was the instrument; the will existed before. In a more rational age they would have censured him, but realized how petty impeaching a man over what was ultimately sexual indiscretion was. Why did they even ask Clinton about this under oath?
That same enmity, doubled, is aimed at Obama. They haven't impeached him yet because Obama is so boring and by-the-book they wouldn't get anything to stick.
posted by JHarris at 10:49 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Let's view the age clearly, now. Clinton lying under oath about a blow job was the instrument; the will existed before. In a more rational age they would have censured him, but realized how petty impeaching a man over what was ultimately sexual indiscretion was. Why did they even ask Clinton about this under oath?
That same enmity, doubled, is aimed at Obama. They haven't impeached him yet because Obama is so boring and by-the-book they wouldn't get anything to stick.
posted by JHarris at 10:49 PM on October 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
/ bowdlerism is stoopid.
I bowlderize my fucks sometimes. Other times I don't bowlderize my f***s. It's got everything to do with context, and the mood I'm in (which context includes anyway).
posted by philip-random at 12:44 AM on October 3, 2011
I bowlderize my fucks sometimes. Other times I don't bowlderize my f***s. It's got everything to do with context, and the mood I'm in (which context includes anyway).
posted by philip-random at 12:44 AM on October 3, 2011
So....I assume HST didn't care much for Nixon.
posted by VicNebulous at 7:06 AM on October 3, 2011
posted by VicNebulous at 7:06 AM on October 3, 2011
Really? All the troops from Iraq, home, now. Troops from Afghanistan, home, now. . Guantanamo: closed.
Wow, you were rooting for democracy so hard there you forgot about Congress. Things don't happen "now".
Iraq has been winding down for a year now. Afghanistan is starting that process. The president started to close Guantanamo and Congress refused to fund it.
posted by spaltavian at 7:54 PM on October 3, 2011
Wow, you were rooting for democracy so hard there you forgot about Congress. Things don't happen "now".
Iraq has been winding down for a year now. Afghanistan is starting that process. The president started to close Guantanamo and Congress refused to fund it.
posted by spaltavian at 7:54 PM on October 3, 2011
JHarris wrote: They haven't impeached him yet because Obama is so boring and by-the-book they wouldn't get anything to stick.
Either that or the Republicans may have learned from the last time around the block that all impeaching him does is garner sympathy for him.
posted by wierdo at 9:19 AM on October 4, 2011
Either that or the Republicans may have learned from the last time around the block that all impeaching him does is garner sympathy for him.
posted by wierdo at 9:19 AM on October 4, 2011
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I long for the days of Richard Nixon, when I could count on my fellow citizens to be upset at abuses of power, knowing that someday they might be the target.
posted by Malor at 6:14 PM on October 1, 2011 [18 favorites]