October 15, 2001
9:25 AM Subscribe
Defining Terrorism with about 109 definitions of terroism, defining what it is and isn't is no easy task. Its no wonder the govt. officials want to stop using the word in the media. this is an in depth look at terrorism and why its important to define it. Is one man's terrorist another man's freedom fighter? The article even incudes
diagrams for the visual persons like myself.
Another big problem is that in recent days Russia, China, and today Saudia Arabia and Arafat have all come out against "terrorism" , my question to them is which definition are you speaking of ? ahh linguistics.
posted by redhead at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2001
posted by redhead at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2001
Cut to the chase: Terrorism is the theology that acts of terror can be used ethically to political or personal ends. The end justifies the means. I see no difference between setting a bomb off in a building or using a gun to hold up a convenience store. Both are the use of terror to accomplish a goal. Any kind of violence to force one's own beliefs onto another constitutes terrorism. Yes. That means war is terrorism. Historically, Americans have been terrorists too. The zealots are attacking us now because they believe we have attacked them. We have repeatedly been obstacles between the Palestinian goals to remove Israel from what they believe to be their holy lands.
How does bombing Kabal improve the situation? We had no choice. We had to meet force with force or they'd just keep escalating the terror until they got a rise out of us, but by resorting to violence we're no better than the terrorists. So long as one human being on this planet believes violence of any kind is acceptable behavior under certain circumstances, we will continue to be the greatest threat to our own extinction. George Carlin was right: "The world isn't going anywhere - WE are!" Making that fist means you lost the argument.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:13 AM on October 15, 2001
How does bombing Kabal improve the situation? We had no choice. We had to meet force with force or they'd just keep escalating the terror until they got a rise out of us, but by resorting to violence we're no better than the terrorists. So long as one human being on this planet believes violence of any kind is acceptable behavior under certain circumstances, we will continue to be the greatest threat to our own extinction. George Carlin was right: "The world isn't going anywhere - WE are!" Making that fist means you lost the argument.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:13 AM on October 15, 2001
ter·ror·ism
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
dictionary.com
The Terrorists, and their supportes believe that the end justifies the means.
A recent example would be the killing of the Northeren Alliance leader Ahmed Shah Masud by a couple of suicide bombers posing as journalists.
Being a student of Islam, I find that Islam rejects this method of pursuation. Islam not only looks at the Start, the End but also the means and the intention.
Those who lie, decieve, and pose as peaceful in order to cause harm and death and fear, are fooling no one, but themselves.
This also passes for governments and armies, who hide part of the facts, or propogate false facts in order to gather support for annihilation of another nation. They lie, decieve and pose as The Good for their nation and cause harm and death to another nation.
By this understanding, I therefore declare the USA, Israel, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the PLO, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan (for helping Taleban and Kashmiri separatists), India, Taleban, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah, Jaish-e-Muhammad, the KKK as Terrorist Nations and Organizations.
This list can go on to include any number of Nations and Groups and Individuals cuz all of us, in the lame excuse of National Interest, have committed Terrorism against humanity.
Let us as humans, set aside all hate, and look at ourselves in the face. We will surely see red. The blood of all those who have been slaughtered, murdered in the name of ideologies, religions and national interest.
May God give us courage to look for peace.
May God bless us with peace.
posted by adnanbwp at 11:09 AM on October 15, 2001
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
dictionary.com
The Terrorists, and their supportes believe that the end justifies the means.
A recent example would be the killing of the Northeren Alliance leader Ahmed Shah Masud by a couple of suicide bombers posing as journalists.
Being a student of Islam, I find that Islam rejects this method of pursuation. Islam not only looks at the Start, the End but also the means and the intention.
Those who lie, decieve, and pose as peaceful in order to cause harm and death and fear, are fooling no one, but themselves.
This also passes for governments and armies, who hide part of the facts, or propogate false facts in order to gather support for annihilation of another nation. They lie, decieve and pose as The Good for their nation and cause harm and death to another nation.
By this understanding, I therefore declare the USA, Israel, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the PLO, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan (for helping Taleban and Kashmiri separatists), India, Taleban, Al-Qaeda, Hizbullah, Jaish-e-Muhammad, the KKK as Terrorist Nations and Organizations.
This list can go on to include any number of Nations and Groups and Individuals cuz all of us, in the lame excuse of National Interest, have committed Terrorism against humanity.
Let us as humans, set aside all hate, and look at ourselves in the face. We will surely see red. The blood of all those who have been slaughtered, murdered in the name of ideologies, religions and national interest.
May God give us courage to look for peace.
May God bless us with peace.
posted by adnanbwp at 11:09 AM on October 15, 2001
terrorism is whenever a middle class shithead like myself gets killed. when it's a poor person or oppressed peoples, it's totally cool. it's um...? oh yeah defending our way of life or something. so like when an israeli soldier starts telling palestinian children over a megaphone that they're "sons of cunts" (see Harper's magazine, current issue cover article) and then lures them out and fires live ammunition into their torso's that's not terrorism it's um..... whadduyacallit..... a preventive measure to ensure the security of the israeli people.....you get it?
posted by aLienated at 11:50 AM on October 15, 2001
posted by aLienated at 11:50 AM on October 15, 2001
I am certainly sorry my post was not clear and maybe some of you thought I condoned the practice of terrorism, by anyone. I do not.
adnanbwp
I don't have a problem with the definition per se, but we all know that words convey meaning beyond that.
I thought the article was trying to point out the many mindsets that different groups have and how we could possibly communicate non - violently.
Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers, was that act right or wrong? It was violent, it was force against someones property. But you could argue that he was fighting for freedom from the laws of the religious leaders at that time.
Can you make someone not hate?
posted by redhead at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2001
adnanbwp
I don't have a problem with the definition per se, but we all know that words convey meaning beyond that.
I thought the article was trying to point out the many mindsets that different groups have and how we could possibly communicate non - violently.
Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers, was that act right or wrong? It was violent, it was force against someones property. But you could argue that he was fighting for freedom from the laws of the religious leaders at that time.
Can you make someone not hate?
posted by redhead at 11:52 AM on October 15, 2001
Can you make someone not hate?
Yeah, but it sometimes also involves making them dead.
posted by NortonDC at 12:03 PM on October 15, 2001
Yeah, but it sometimes also involves making them dead.
posted by NortonDC at 12:03 PM on October 15, 2001
That means war is terrorism.
Not to split hairs...well, OK, I will anyway. War is NOT terrorism IF we adhere strictly to the dictionary definition of terrorism presented above, i.e. "unlawful use...of force," etc. This, of course, bearing in mind that a declaration of war has been made following the legal processes/methods of the countries involved. As such, would you call World Wars One and Two acts of terrorism?
Just my $.02 worth.
The blood of all those who have been slaughtered, murdered in the name of ideologies, religions and national interest.
May God give us courage to look for peace.
May God bless us with peace.
Unfortunately, "God" and divergent concepts and interpretations terof is partly what got us into this fubar in the first place.
posted by PeteyStock at 1:25 PM on October 15, 2001
Not to split hairs...well, OK, I will anyway. War is NOT terrorism IF we adhere strictly to the dictionary definition of terrorism presented above, i.e. "unlawful use...of force," etc. This, of course, bearing in mind that a declaration of war has been made following the legal processes/methods of the countries involved. As such, would you call World Wars One and Two acts of terrorism?
Just my $.02 worth.
The blood of all those who have been slaughtered, murdered in the name of ideologies, religions and national interest.
May God give us courage to look for peace.
May God bless us with peace.
Unfortunately, "God" and divergent concepts and interpretations terof is partly what got us into this fubar in the first place.
posted by PeteyStock at 1:25 PM on October 15, 2001
Terrorists kill people without being elected. You can't vote them out of office. Dictatorships are no better than secret organizations.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:32 PM on October 15, 2001
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:32 PM on October 15, 2001
The main link above does toss out many suggested definitions for terrorism, but then makes a good case for this one:
Terrorism is the intentional use of, or threat to use violence against civilians or against civilian targets, in order to attain political aims.
I would say that as the word has traditionally been used, the definition would be more like:
Terrorism is the intentional use of, or threat to use violence against civilians or against civilian targets, in order to attain political aims, except when done by armed forces clearly identified and associated with recognized governments.
posted by bowline at 2:12 PM on October 15, 2001
Terrorism is the intentional use of, or threat to use violence against civilians or against civilian targets, in order to attain political aims.
I would say that as the word has traditionally been used, the definition would be more like:
Terrorism is the intentional use of, or threat to use violence against civilians or against civilian targets, in order to attain political aims, except when done by armed forces clearly identified and associated with recognized governments.
posted by bowline at 2:12 PM on October 15, 2001
"..except when done by armed forces clearly identified and associated with recognized governments."
That's the mindset I will protest to my dying breath. I respect your right to your opinion. Again, so long as one human being accepts violence as a viable option, we will continue to be the greatest threat to our own extinction. And when I say that I'm not saying Christians against Muslims or Buddhists against Communists. I mean human beings fighting amongst themselves for any reason. When congress okays war, that's us as a nation rationalizing violence. Putting our white hats on and going out to fight the mean bad guys. Was World War Two wrong? Was World War One wrong? Is this wrong?
Violence against one's fellow man is wrong. We have to match force with force here or we'll be consumed, but that doesn't change the fact that innocents are dying, and will continue to die, on both sides. I may not see the end of humanity's violent behavior in my lifetime, but we as a species will go the way of the dinosaurs if we keep on this course.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:08 AM on October 16, 2001
That's the mindset I will protest to my dying breath. I respect your right to your opinion. Again, so long as one human being accepts violence as a viable option, we will continue to be the greatest threat to our own extinction. And when I say that I'm not saying Christians against Muslims or Buddhists against Communists. I mean human beings fighting amongst themselves for any reason. When congress okays war, that's us as a nation rationalizing violence. Putting our white hats on and going out to fight the mean bad guys. Was World War Two wrong? Was World War One wrong? Is this wrong?
Violence against one's fellow man is wrong. We have to match force with force here or we'll be consumed, but that doesn't change the fact that innocents are dying, and will continue to die, on both sides. I may not see the end of humanity's violent behavior in my lifetime, but we as a species will go the way of the dinosaurs if we keep on this course.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:08 AM on October 16, 2001
I think this thread has pretty much run its course, but just to clarify -- I don't believe that violence specifically directed against civilians is justified, regardless of the goal or who does it.
However I do believe that the second definition I presented reflects the current usage of the word, both in the media and by most individuals.
posted by bowline at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2001
However I do believe that the second definition I presented reflects the current usage of the word, both in the media and by most individuals.
posted by bowline at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2001
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posted by moz at 9:39 AM on October 15, 2001