Explosions at Boston Marathon Finish Line
April 15, 2013 12:12 PM   Subscribe

"At the finish line of the Boston Marathon, two explosions have left multiple people injured." via ParadisePost. CBS Boston has a live video feed up of the finish line.
posted by knile (4350 comments total) 83 users marked this as a favorite
 
Boston EMS live audio feed
posted by knile at 12:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Oh that's terrible.
posted by Mister_A at 12:15 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston.com is down, but @BostonGlobe is tweeting.
posted by knile at 12:17 PM on April 15, 2013


AP report: three hours after the first runners there was a loud explosion on the north side of boylson street, just before the photo bridge that marks the finish line. Another explosion could be heard a few minutes later.
posted by shothotbot at 12:17 PM on April 15, 2013


We just pulled this up on the TV at work. Bloomberg, always classy, is discussing how these explosions will affect gold futures prices.

The camera panned across a blown up person.
posted by phunniemee at 12:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Photo.
posted by Behemoth at 12:18 PM on April 15, 2013


A picture of the explosion as it happened. Really hoping that casualties and injuries are low.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The EMS audio is really good. These guys are on it. "put a message out on social media to people in restaurants and bars that we're sweeping the area and then you will be released." "get postal service police in here to open all these boxes"

Sounds like they are still trying to clear the area to make sure there are no devices.
posted by Big_B at 12:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


on cnn as well
posted by beukeboom at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2013


Shit, I have a relative who was there today.
posted by jquinby at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Whoa that photo.
posted by Big_B at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2013


Police scanner says still multiple suspicious packages on Boylston. :(
posted by mudpuppie at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2013


Holy crap. This is terrible. :-(
posted by mykescipark at 12:20 PM on April 15, 2013


Oh shit.
posted by homunculus at 12:20 PM on April 15, 2013


Police scanner says still multiple suspicious packages on Boylston

Just people dropping bags and running creates "suspicious packages".
posted by smackfu at 12:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [22 favorites]


True enough.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:21 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by likeatoaster at 12:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I imagine this is either an act of terrorism, or just your average pissed off white guy.

This is terrible. Sending good thoughts to people in Boston.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


RE: Suspicious packages - There seems to be some discussion on the scanner saying that a postal truck/mailbox may have been a source, and now there is an abandoned mail truck that has been discovered.
posted by Big_B at 12:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


friend of mine ran for the first time in the race to dad. She said on FB she crossed the finish line about a minute before the explosions. She doesn't know what happened or why.
posted by Mad_Carew at 12:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


We have no idea what's happening and it would be great if nobody jumped to any conclusions. It could be a bizarre accident for all we know.
posted by Avenger at 12:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [25 favorites]


Wow.
posted by schyler523 at 12:23 PM on April 15, 2013


Graphic photos from Deadspin.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm just typing what I'm hearing on the scanner, but good point Avenger.
posted by Big_B at 12:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


If it is your average pissed off white guy then it IS an act of terrorism!

But I really hope that it is just some sort of gas explosion or something.
posted by Our Ship Of The Imagination! at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [56 favorites]


The EMS audio is really good.

Radio discipline is a very real skill, and this is just the kind of situation you practice it (and hundreds of other skills) for.

It is good that this is the kind of event that already has emergency responders on hand.
posted by poe at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Husband said right away "you know what this means and who did it." I told him do not jump to conclusions. There are a lot of angry people in America. Oklahoma bombing was done by a guy here.

People need to chill the F out. Hurting innocents does nothing for anyone.
posted by stormpooper at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


They just showed a new video on CNN, and it definitely looked like two distinct explosions about 15-20 seconds apart.
posted by smackfu at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2013


You can check marathon runners' most recent checkins here.
posted by knile at 12:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'm honestly hoping it was some sort of gas main explosion (also that the casualties are minimum, obviously).

Because I'm going to be absurdly pissed off when it turns out to be domestic terrorism from the typical sources, and absolutely no one uses that phrase because we don't like thinking of ourselves in those terms.

We act like it's better when it's an other, but truth be told; it almost never is.
posted by quin at 12:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


The whole area is starting to shut down. The MBTA shut down the Green Line between Kenmore and Park Street, and Boston PD just tweeted that the Mass. Ave. bridge is being shut down.
posted by backseatpilot at 12:27 PM on April 15, 2013


phunniemee: "We just pulled this up on the TV at work. Bloomberg, always classy, is discussing how these explosions will affect gold futures prices."

Not to derail this too much, but the gold market has been in an all-out and unprecedented panic today. I don't think it's completely unreasonable for a financial news outlet to comment that a terrorist attack could worsen an ongoing economic panic. This is horrible, and I don't doubt that Bloomberg handled it tactlessly, but Bloomberg are not a general-purpose news outlet, and there are two very major news stories taking place right now.
posted by schmod at 12:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


To reiterate what other people have already said, we generally have a good record here on the blue of not jumping to conclusions based on early reports, so let's keep it up.

The one thing we can be sure that if these are deliberate, this is "terrorism", no matter who did it. But even that will take time to establish.

I find it very hard to believe that there would be an accident explosion at a spot where multiple news cameras happened to be pointed, but stranger things have happened.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 12:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Weird that I heard about this story via friends in Boston on Twitter and FaceBook letting friends and family know that they're OK. That was before I saw anything about the actual event so I had no clue what they were talking about and why they were sending out such a message.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 12:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fuck. I was just about to check on the status of two friends who were running when I heard the news.
posted by bondcliff at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Marathon is shutting down. Any runners still on the course are being redirected to the Commons.
posted by zachlipton at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm honestly hoping it was some sort of gas main explosion (also that the casualties are minimum, obviously).

Me too, but what makes me worry it might be something more is the potential psychological impact this might have if it were an attack. The Boston Marathon is a pretty iconic American tradition and has all sorts of cultural meaning. That said, it's still way too early to conclude anything and too much speculation will only confuse the process of figuring out what actually happened.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


(just got word that she's fine - was ~ 2 miles back when it happened)
posted by jquinby at 12:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


"Boston explosions were at 673 Boylston Street" - @BloombergTV.

Also, terrorism tag deleted. Apologies.
posted by knile at 12:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


How far into the race did the explosions go off?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:31 PM on April 15, 2013


On the "Boston Marathon" twitter stream I just saw the NY Post link to a photo of what looked to be a now-empty triage area stained with blood. Horrific. My thoughts are with those affected.
posted by audi alteram partem at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Three hours.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013


Pogo_Fuzzybutt: "I imagine this is either an act of terrorism, or just your average pissed off white guy."

C'mon, buddy.
posted by boo_radley at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [17 favorites]


How far into the race did the explosions go off?

At the finish line.
posted by alby at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013


WCVB has a live feed, including photos.
posted by tommasz at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013


How far into the race did the explosions go off?

three hours after people started finishing, near the finish line.
posted by shothotbot at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Anyone know anything about Boston's gas, etc. infrastructure? Were Boston's gas mains privatized?
posted by jeffburdges at 12:32 PM on April 15, 2013


Mediaite has video of the explosion as it happens.

It looks like the explosion happens on the sidewalk, in the crowd.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Not gonna look at any photos. And I guess we can always add the "terrorism" tag back in if we have to. Not that it makes any difference to the victims.
posted by emjaybee at 12:34 PM on April 15, 2013


This is very distressing. As someone who runs marathons I cannot help but put myself in a similar place. You think of your own family, friends, loved ones.

Stay safe people. Thoughts and prayers with everyone.
posted by Fizz at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Heard over the scanner: "At this time we have all the victims off the scene", via @Neda_Semnani, a reporter for Roll Call. who has been my source for much of this.
posted by knile at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


NBC is currently showing a lot of videos of the explosion and the immediate aftermath, with police, soliders, and security crew and volunteers, pulling apart the stands and coming to the aid of those who are injured.
posted by Stynxno at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Oh what the hell.
posted by rtha at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


This is awful :(

Also, I especially feel for the people of Boston, after being clowned on for this for so long.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Is the race now canceled for remaining participants? I was freaked out because a friend is running for charity, but it looks on the BAA website he's still on the course, just passed the 40k sensor.
posted by selfnoise at 12:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Weird that I heard about this story via friends in Boston on Twitter and FaceBook letting friends and family know that they're OK. That was before I saw anything about the actual event.

Me too. It's sad reading the updates in reverse chronology. You start by seeing insane photos and updates about how scared everyone is and messages to friends and family that they are OK and then you reach the point before the bombs went off and everyone is so excited and happy, wishing each other good luck, saying it's a beautiful morning for a race.
posted by theuninvitedguest at 12:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Three hours. - Thanks, that was what I was wondering. Didn't realize it starts so late in the day; I guess the weather is cool enough in Boston in April. Three hours into a marathon is the start of the big wave of finishers, I'd imagine :(
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Barring a gas / boiler explosion, this is going to mean even more repression and surveillance.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [22 favorites]


Yeah, they're redirecting anyone still on the course to Boston Common.
posted by backseatpilot at 12:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Is the race now canceled for remaining participants?

Yes, according to the Boston EMS feed, the marathon is officially cancelled.
posted by Spatch at 12:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


.
posted by spitefulcrow at 12:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Bleah.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Is the race now canceled for remaining participants?
The globe says people are being diverted to boston commons at mile 26
posted by shothotbot at 12:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Definitely don't look at photos. They are crazy upsetting.

Important reminders:

"FOG OF NEWS: Just a reminder this is the stage of the story when there are a lot of reports that have not been pinned down floating about." -- Garance Franke-Ruta

"Someone did this to scare us. Stop helping them. Just stop. Give money, time, or blood: http://www.redcross.org" -- Charlie Loyd
posted by Phire at 12:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [29 favorites]


At least 3 dead right now.

Ugh, this is horrible. I hope this is some weird accident of some kind. My heart goes out to all the victims.
posted by King Bee at 12:38 PM on April 15, 2013


Three hours into a marathon is the start of the big wave of finishers, I'd imagine :(

Just to be clear, I misread that source - it was three hours after the first finishers, like shothotbot said. Three hours after the start, only the really good runners are getting to the finish.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:38 PM on April 15, 2013


It's terrible how much I want it to be a busted gas line or something "natural" like that.
posted by rtha at 12:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


The race started at 9am.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:38 PM on April 15, 2013


OMG. I was really hoping no fatalities.
posted by sweetkid at 12:39 PM on April 15, 2013


selfnoise - runners still on the course are being diverted, but the race has been declared over.
posted by knile at 12:39 PM on April 15, 2013


If, like me, you don't know what to do when you see something like this, I recommend calling someone you love and telling them so.

You can also take a first aid class:

How to find a first aid class in your area. (Red Cross)
posted by poe at 12:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


So was the bombing at ~12pm EST or ~3pm EST?
posted by parmanparman at 12:40 PM on April 15, 2013


The race started at 9am. = well now I'm confused.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:40 PM on April 15, 2013


I work on Boylston Street and my office sits directly between the sites of the two explosions. Working from home today due to the marathon, hoping all my co-workers are OK.
posted by jeremias at 12:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


My prayers are with them all and I hope they catch whatever assholes did this posthaste.
posted by jonmc at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston’s 3,300-Plus Street-Level Gas Leaks (Dec 2012)
Study Details Natural Gas Leaks in Boston (Nov 2012)
posted by jeffburdges at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


I think the explosions happened about 5/6 hours after the race start time, at the finish line, around 2/3pm EST.
posted by Hello, Revelers! I am Captain Lavender! at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013


The explosions were shortly before 3pm EST.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Race started at 9 AM EST, first finishers crossed at around noon, bomb went off about 3 hours after the first finishers (aka ~3 PM EST)

The "3 dead" reporting I'm seeing on Twitter is attributed to FOX News. Does anyone else have corroborating sources?
posted by Phire at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013


CNN.com says that the first explosions were at 2:45 eastern time.
posted by King Bee at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


So was the bombing at ~12pm EST or ~3pm EST?

I don't think it's been established yet that it was a bombing. (Though my gut tells me it probably was.)
posted by saulgoodman at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Race starts at 9, first finishers between 11 and 12 (2 or 3 hours after start), explosions at 3pm EST, 3 hours after first finishers.
posted by Think_Long at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013


If, like me, you don't know what to do when you see something like this, I recommend calling someone you love and telling them so.

You can also take a first aid class

And of course, if you are able to, go donate some blood.
posted by padraigin at 12:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


It's terrible how much I want it to be a busted gas line or something "natural" like that.

Not at all. It's honestly the best we can hope for right now.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, the Red Cross maintains safe and well lists and family reconnect services in these situations.
posted by crush-onastick at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Hope this doesn't get too bad.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013


It's terrible how much I want it to be a busted gas line or something "natural" like that.

Same here.

There is mention that 4 people have been brought to Mass General.

There's also mention of a possible device found at the Mandarin hotel.
posted by ericb at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Can we please not have a thread full of comments about "your average pissed off white guy"? We don't even know if these explosions were terrorism or just an accident yet.

Premature speculation about the race of the perpetrators is as offensive as making the kneejerk assumption that the perpetrators of other violent crimes will eventually be found to be black. That's the kind of shit you see posted in the comments section of local newspaper articles linked to by the Drudge Report. Metafilter is better than this.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [34 favorites]


This is fucking awful. My heart hurts.
posted by Sweetmag at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Actually the more I think about this, the more I'm really, really hoping it's something infrastructure related, like a gas main.

At least that could act as a clarion call to the kinds of repairs that our country needs, and there is a slim, infinitesimal change that tragedy could turn to making our country a better place.

But my sickened gut tells me that we're not going to be that lucky.
posted by quin at 12:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Just to clarify for those in other timezones, this happened ~3pm EST, under an hour ago.
posted by heyforfour at 12:43 PM on April 15, 2013


ABC News (Stephanopoulos) just reported "several" deaths, victims with severed limbs and children with severe burns. Praying for the victims and their families.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:43 PM on April 15, 2013


I heard it both times across the river and thought it was thunder.. :(

This is really sad.
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 12:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


https://chat.metafilter.com/
posted by Wordwoman at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


3 pm (actually, about 2:45 pm).

The marathon has a staggered start, with groups like the wheelchair racers and the elite racers at the front. Here's a list of the start times for various groups.
posted by anastasiav at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A friend in Boston just posted on facebook that cell service (including texts) is shaky/down, for those trying to get in touch with loved ones.
posted by likeatoaster at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013


Hang in there Boston.
posted by Callicvol at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013


CBS is showing a video clip now that shows the official race time clock at 4:09 (elapsed time) when one of the blasts goes off.
posted by argonauta at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013


Metafilter is better than this.
Metafilter is what its users post. For better or for worse.
posted by DWRoelands at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Man this is terrible, and I hope they catch the bastards who did this.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


My wife is from Boston, this is very disturbing. My thoughts are with the victims and their families.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:44 PM on April 15, 2013


While there are many possible causes and some of them could be accidental, the last act of terrorism here in Austin was someone flying a plane into a building where the IRS had offices.

It's quite possible that NedKoppel is on the right track.
posted by Mad_Carew at 12:45 PM on April 15, 2013


Ok, so if it's terrorism, it's angry white guys. And if it's an accident, it's privatized gas lines. Glad we're dealing with this without ideological biases.
posted by gertzedek at 12:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [27 favorites]


Reddit thread which is being updated live with sources/pictures as news comes in.
posted by fight or flight at 12:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


This is awful. I'm joining the chorus of those hoping for an accidental cause, rather than an intentional one, just because otherwise WTF humanity.

I know at least one person running today. Shit.
posted by ambrosia at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's also quite possible that none of you can possibly know jack shit about anything that's going on given that none of you are there and work in EMS or Boston Police. Amazing how some of you are already convinced of what has happened.
posted by spicynuts at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


There was really only one comment from some one about them thinking it might be your average pissed off white guy so I guess I don't really see the point in getting so outraged but thats cool Jacqueline. The majority of people seem to be worried and wishing everyone well. That is what *I* expect from Metafilter.
posted by Our Ship Of The Imagination! at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [23 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, this is a fast-moving and scary situation with not a lot of info on the ground yet. Links are great, discussion is fine, but please let's maybe avoid any fight-starting speculation if possible.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [25 favorites]


I hope it was accidental but it seems incredibly unlikely. Explosions at the most crowded area of the biggest on-street event of the year (unless there's a major sports title in Boston, I guess), right around when the biggest group of runners is likely to be nearing the finish line (and thus, their well-wishers will be gathering)? If that's bad luck it is incredibly bad.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Reddit thread which is being updated live with sources/pictures as news comes in.

Top comment by "pandarapist" sweet jesus
posted by ominous_paws at 12:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Shit.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013


Recent tweet on my feed that I think is worth highlighting:
Thoughts with Boston. Bad people like to spread rumors in this environment, be careful what you amplify today.
posted by Fizz at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [18 favorites]


Pogo_Fuzzybutt: "I imagine this is either an act of terrorism, or just your average pissed off white guy."

C'mon, buddy.

Ok, maybe that was too on the nose - but it is a truism that POed white guys can blow things up all damned day and not get called what they are - terrorists.

Granted, we'd have to speculate as to groups and precise motives at this time, but there isn't much question in my mind as to intent - Boston Globe is reporting that Police have found secondary devices.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


1. My deepest condolences to all involved. I have friends and family in and around Boston.

2. I apologize if this is a tasteless question, but will the runners standings still be 'counted' for those who have already finished? Or does the cancellation mean that the entire slate is wiped clean and all the results cancelled? I know nothing about marathons.
posted by spinifex23 at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Top comment by "pandarapist" sweet jesus

Twitter and reddit were both ~15 mnutes ahead of the national news. These are the times we live in.
posted by fight or flight at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


I know someone who's friends with a Boston PD officer who confirmed it was two bombs. A number of deaths have been confirmed according to this source.
posted by docjohn at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013


Bwithh: " What kind of meanings does it have ? ( I'm curious - I just don't know)"

It's always held on Patriots' Day, which commemorates the battles at Lexington and Concord to start the American Revolutionary War. This could certainly be coincidental, but is likely to get some attention as people look for a motive.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by Iridic at 12:47 PM on April 15, 2013


Top comment by "pandarapist" sweet jesus

Never look at the Reddit usernames.

"Pandarapist" is mild.
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Hats off to the MeFites diligently scouring the Internet for things like video footage and photos and the reddit thread. Tweeps who weren't there have begun the "it was a bomb" chorus already to the point that the noise is overwhelming. Events like this really make Twitter seem useless.
posted by radicalawyer at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


This Vine shows the moment of explosion. Terrifying.
posted by themadthinker at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Dramatic video clip of the explosion found at the Deadspin page (mentioned above).
posted by ericb at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Bwithh: Patriots' Day & Boston Marathon.
posted by knile at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


To underline what Phire quoted up above:

"Someone did this to scare us. Stop helping them. Just stop. Give money, time, or blood: http://www.redcross.org"
posted by koeselitz at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


If you're in Boston right now, stay away from outdoor trash cans. Emergency responders are being cautioned to "beware of trash containers" (per radio scanner traffic).
posted by BobbyVan at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


The pictures of the wounded look like something from Afghanistan or Iraq. It looks so bloody and gruesome. I hope everyone is okay. Although I haven't lived there in years, Boston has always been home to me, and my heart breaks today.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


.
posted by Riton at 12:48 PM on April 15, 2013


On NBC: William Bratton, Fmr. Boston Police Commissioner, based on his sources, is saying that there were two explosions and at least 15 people injured, some extremely severe.
posted by Stynxno at 12:49 PM on April 15, 2013


@BostonGlobe: rt @JOSreports Police say are they still finding "secondary devices," pleading with crowd to go home

Looks like it was a bomb.
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Tweet from Mass EMA:

RedCross Safe and Well is active. Individuals can register themselvs as safe or search for loved ones at http://redcross.org/safeandwell
posted by tommasz at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm so proud of the race volunteers (the people in white Addidas jackets, if you're watching video). They're not technically trained for situations like this but damn it looks like they're busting their asses and pulling together to get injured people help.

Also, it goes without saying that I'm proud of the first responders and military personnel who were there. Bravo, everyone.
posted by cooker girl at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [24 favorites]


>The Boston Marathon is a pretty iconic American tradition and has all sorts of cultural meaning.

What kind of meanings does it have ? ( I'm curious - I just don't know)

Honestly? I think if it has great cultural significance, it's to people in the northeast. But the Boston Marathon is a big enough deal that basically everyone knows it exists, even if they don't know or care about marathons in general. Like... you'd kind of expect people in Britain to know the London marathon exists. In the US, that's Boston, New York and maybe Chicago (but I'm from Chicago, so I have no idea if people elsewhere know it exists).

Yeah, on preview, I had no idea 'Patriots Day' that other people have mentioned was a thing, never mind that it was today.
posted by hoyland at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Here is another live update thread from Reddit. Bear in mind any of the updates can later turn out to be false rumors or just plain misunderstandings.

There was just an explosion at the Boston Marathon
posted by tykky at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Fox News is already calling this terrorism.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


On the other hand, maybe knowing of its existence counts as 'great cultural significance'.
posted by hoyland at 12:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Twitter and reddit were both ~15 mnutes ahead of the national news. These are the times we live in.

Add to this the fact that one of the images was caught on Vine. We really are at a moment when social and collaborative online media spreads news faster than any time in history.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


What are "secondary devices"? Sounds like pretty specific jargon.
posted by klarck at 12:51 PM on April 15, 2013


@willsommer: Sign of the times: Boston police scanner full of plans to get news out on social media.

Horrible news but fascinating that modern technology is being used for aid.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


We always have no school/no work for Patriot's Day, I figured so everyone could go watch the marathon instead.

I'm glad I stayed home today.. /arnold
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"What kind of meanings does it have ? ( I'm curious - I just don't know)"

Also the Boston Marathon is the world's oldest annual marathon. On Patriots Day there is also a tradition of a Red Sox game at Fenway Park every year since 1959.
posted by ericb at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013


I think that Vine is just someone pointing their cameraphone at the TV.
posted by smackfu at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Fox News is already calling this terrorism.

The number of secondary sources indicating that these were bombs or "devices" would tend to back up their characterization, no?
posted by DWRoelands at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013


This is the worst still image I've seen so far. (from Fox News, NSFW/NSFL)
posted by dobi at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013


What are "secondary devices"? Sounds like a pretty specific jargon term.

Bombs meant to go off later, to target emergency services.
posted by hoyland at 12:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


I believe a "secondary" device would be an explosive intended to target the rescuers.
posted by NedKoppel at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston Marathon is a little special in that it's on Patriots Day and you also have to qualify for it, you can't just get a lottery placement/sponsorship entry like NYC marathon, for example.

It's a huge event in Boston since people have off work/school.
posted by sweetkid at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


.
posted by Strass at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Add to this the fact that one of the images was caught on Vine. We really are at a moment when social and collaborative online media spreads news faster than any time in history.

That Vine thing was just an edit from the video that was posted up-thread.
posted by jessssse at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


What are "secondary devices"? Sounds like pretty specific jargon.

That's when you put more bombs in the area designed to survive the first blast so that you can directly target first responders.

It's shit like this that makes me a little jumpy on station.
posted by fifthrider at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'd consider the 3300 street-level gas leaks far more suggestive than the tax day connection, NedKoppel, well until we hear more details from the police. Isn't the gas leak theory consistent with two explosions so close together too?
posted by jeffburdges at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013


feloniousmonk: "The pictures of the wounded look like something from Afghanistan or Iraq. It looks so bloody and gruesome. "

We all bleed the same.
posted by Splunge at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


Fox News is already calling this terrorism.

Shepard Smith just reported that "ball bearings" were found at the scene.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Keep in mind "still finding secondary devices" could mean "still looking for secondary devices".
posted by smackfu at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Everyone should remember too, that the 2007 New York City steam explosion was feared to be a terrorist attack when it first happened.

Not that this looks very good at all, but something to keep in mind.
posted by lampshade at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Top comment by "pandarapist" sweet jesus

look, he's just a panda therapist, why are you overreacting like that
posted by mightygodking at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


ericb, hate to correct you in a thread as serious as this, but Boston Marathon isn't even North America's Oldest Road Race.
posted by the dief at 12:53 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Third bomb just set off by police, according to CBS News.
posted by docjohn at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston’s 3,300-Plus Street-Level Gas Leaks (Dec 2012)
Study Details Natural Gas Leaks in Boston (Nov 2012)

Gas leaks almost never have an ideal oxidizer mix, they're always very fuel rich -- and thus, have dark black smoke. And if there was enough gas in open air to create that fireball, *everyboyd* was throwing up from the smell well before it lit. And the chances of them going off about 30 seconds within each o

These didn't burn like that. They look like oxidizer rich deflagrations. I say "deflagrations" because I don't see any shattered glass, and if you had a fireball that big from a detonating explosive, at least some of those windows would have shattered.

They actually don't look that powerful -- one of the goes off, only one runner falls (and he's obviously very old and has just run a marathon, so I'd also say very tired. The course monitors that are far closer flinch a bit, but they all remain standing and mobile (looks like one was hit/cut by debris, judging by the hands to head and hold.

However, for the people on the sidewalk, who aren't very visible, they were much close to this explosion. It moves a couple of interlinks barriers out, another sign of a deflagration. Deflagrations move things. Detonations shatter things.

I've only seen footage from one of the explosions, but it's a deflagration, burns with white smoke, didn't shatter windows and didn't knock over people 30' away, except for one old guy who might have fallen out of surprise.

Black/Smokeless powder, 5-10 pounds, someone compressed, not a lot of intentional fragmentation.

Manmade.

It's tax day

Oh, fuck, you're right.
posted by eriko at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [82 favorites]


Fox News is already calling this terrorism

In fairness though, Fox news calls pretty much everything terrorism. Until they determine that it wasn't foreigners, in which case it becomes a terrible tragedy that no one could have foreseen.
posted by quin at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [53 favorites]


"I hope it was accidental but it seems incredibly unlikely."

It's also Tax Day, and Boston is a city of historical significance for tax protests. :(
posted by Jacqueline at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Reports over news and radio of BPD blowing a secondary in place.
posted by Punkey at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013


:( Horrifying. :(
posted by zarq at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Ah, yes. That would be OSHA's exact definition of a "secondary device."
posted by NedKoppel at 12:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


There is another tradition of reenacting Paul Reve's ride (starting in Charlestown) and ending in Concord/Lexington

Lots of people also get up early to view the reenactments of the battles in Concord and Lexington.
posted by ericb at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Busily checking in with the people I know who run at about that time, and those I know who are always at the finish line. This is surreal and horrifying.
posted by xingcat at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013


God, I hope this is just a horrible accident. The crawl along the bottom of Boston's channel 5 says secondary devices were found.
posted by sarcasticah at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, it took a couple of days to piece together exactly what happened on 9/11 - it will take a few days to figure it out here. Longer if it's domestic, as they generally aren't all falling over themselves to take credit with the press the way some islamist groups are. Or it could be a freak accident.

Expect a few days of impossibly unrelated groups claiming credit, a lot of unsubstantiated rumors about follow-up attacks, and an official press release from the FBI and/or president in a few days.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Shepard Smith just reported that "ball bearings" were found at the scene.

Jesus Christ.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013


‏Oh, for fuck's sake:
@RealAlexJones: Our hearts go out to those that are hurt or killed #Boston marathon - but this thing stinks to high heaven #falseflag
And that hashtag is quickly rising. Regardless of whether or not this is accidental or intentional, this is the kind of person who's earning titles like "monster."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [31 favorites]


I just received a text message from Boston University saying police are asking everyone to stay away from Kenmore Square and surrounding areas. And a friend who works at the Prudential Center said they are currently being evacuated.
posted by theuninvitedguest at 12:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, I remember Sept 11th how there were reports of fires on the National Mall, and a car bomb at the State Department. Both of which were false. We should be cautious with early reports.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


"Look for the helpers. You'll always find people who are helping." --Mr. Rogers
posted by Phire at 12:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [180 favorites]


CNN is infuriating, just endlessly repeating the fact that they have no information about what happened. "Look at that smoke. That smoke is gray. Look at that."

I want to hear about how many people are safe and uninjured.
posted by damehex at 12:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


the dief, yes it is the oldest annual marathon in the world. Not a road race. ericb did say it was the oldest marathon. GTFO.
posted by mysticreferee at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Shepard Smith just reported that "ball bearings" were found at the scene.

Jesus Christ.

What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?
posted by donajo at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reports over news and radio of BPD blowing a secondary in place.

BPD is confirming that they are setting off a "controlled explosion."
posted by zombieflanders at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston globe reported the JFK library fire as mechanical fire
posted by shothotbot at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013


@RealAlexJones: Our hearts go out to those that are hurt or killed #Boston marathon - but this thing stinks to high heaven #falseflag

Jesus, I had no idea this was a thing.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013


All off-duty police officers just ordered to report to their precincts.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ball bearings are used as buckshot in homemade explosives.
posted by Think_Long at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Shepard Smith just reported that "ball bearings" were found at the scene.

For those that don't know these are commonly found as fragmentation devices in military level explosives/mines. If they're finding these, and it wasn't a rollerblade store that was targeted... pretty indicative of a planned attack.

Jesus Christ.

Indeed.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


EMS feed: "All off duty officers report to your districts. THAT IS AN ORDER!"
posted by double block and bleed at 12:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Ball bearings would be used to create projectiles after an explosion.
posted by dobi at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

Commonly used in IEDs for shrapnel damage.
posted by chrominance at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Shepard Smith just reported that "ball bearings" were found at the scene.

True, Smith said that, just waiting for other sources to verify a lot of this stuff.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

Ball bearings make for "good" (and by "good" I mean "horrific") ready-made shrapnel in explosives. The blast scatters bullet-sized bits of metal in all directions with tremendous force.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

You pack a bomb with ball bearings, nails and other small things to maximize the injuries it will produce.
posted by jquinby at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


donajo: "What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?"

Ball bearings are often loaded into explosive devices to increase the possibility of maiming or injuring people. Also nails.
posted by scrump at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?
Designed to make shrapnel. Though the people in the street in the video looked ok.
posted by shothotbot at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013


Ball bearings are a favorite to wrap around an explosive to increase the anti-personnel capabilities of the device. They fly out from the blast and hurt people.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

Little metal balls used in lubricated joints. (Like in the transmission of a car.) Also great for packing around your bomb to make it tear people apart more effectively.
posted by fifthrider at 12:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

Improvised devices are often packed with small hard or sharp things to create more grievous injuries.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013


What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?

I suspect it's because there's little good reason for ball bearings to be at the scene like that unless they were intended as shrapnel and packed around the bomb.

That is to say, the presence of ball bearings is relevant to whether this was a bomb or an accidental disaster.
posted by gauche at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013


donajo, ball bearings suggest a shrapnel bomb, which means someone was aiming for maximum injuries and deaths.
posted by tavella at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013


CNN is infuriating, just endlessly repeating the fact that they have no information about what happened.

Legally though aren't they supposed to wait until official information has been released? I mean it's great that Twitter/Vine/etc are providing a lot of info, but I'm okay with their families being notified.
posted by jetlagaddict at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thich Nhat Hanh on a Zen response to terrorism.
posted by Currer Belfry at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Yeah, I remember Sept 11th how there were reports of fires on the National Mall, and a car bomb at the State Department. Both of which were false. We should be cautious with early reports.

Correct. As far as we knew in downtown D.C. that day there were car bombs and the National Mall was on fire. It was a bizarre scene and indicates that early news reports are nothing to go on.
posted by NedKoppel at 12:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


WBUR radio live stream
posted by seemoreglass at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013


Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal.
posted by jessssse at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


Are these secondary device, ball bearings, etc. reports originating with Fox News or someone sane?
posted by jeffburdges at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013


donajo: "What does that mean? I know what a ball bearing is, but why are they significant?"

It's reasonable to assume that a lot of ball bearings near an explosion site signify a homemade claymore mine-like bomb. The bearings will increase the number of injured and the severity of their wounds.
posted by boo_radley at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013


Can someone with knowledge of the Boston Marathon tell me whether the red scattered on the sidewalk in many of those top-angle photos is maybe some kind of traditional streamers or sillystring or something? I would like it not to be blood but I earnestly have no idea and cannot tell from the tiny images.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


People, this thread is moving very fast, please take a breath and slow down. We don't need 15 comments answering one question, it will just fill this up with noise.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


Ball bearing cite: One of the first improvements was to replace the steel cubes with 7⁄32-inch (5.6 mm) hardened 52100 alloy ball bearings.*

I am not saying the explosion was a claymore or even a mass manufactured device. I repeat... I am NOT saying that.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013


The Guardian feed
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013


Wouldn't a gas explosion leave a crater?
posted by Mr. Yuck at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013


Dear god, #falseflag on Twitter is an insight into a strange and fascinating world. Lots of talk about the Rothschilds and David Icke there, I shit you not.
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013


I am not buying this "ball bearings" story until it's better-confirmed.
posted by koeselitz at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013


Secondary devices: Boston Globe.

Ball bearings: Fox News, but one of their token sane anchors.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


jessssse: "Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal."

We all read the Anarchists' Cookbook in high school.
posted by notsnot at 1:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


Legally though aren't they supposed to wait until official information has been released? I mean it's great that Twitter/Vine/etc are providing a lot of info, but I'm okay with their families being notified.

They're news media; legally they can say practically anything they want. Trying to balance only reporting the very certain with the desire to get information out fast is hard but they're not required or obligated in any way to keep silent until it's official. Families being notified is a separate matter entirely; you can provide a lot of information without actually listing names.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm imagining runners crossing the line: proud, happy, and exhausted, having trained toward running this marathon for months or years... and then this horror. Unthinkable. Madness.
posted by orange swan at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Fox is reporting the explosion has killed three and resulted in 10 amputations.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2013


One thing I learned from 9/11 (I was in the city), was to wait for some confirmed information before drawing too many conclusions (which I did not do then). The news media right now is in overdrive to simply keep talking until some hard fact is available. Until that happens, they will speculate, embellish and simply wonder aloud while their producers scream in their ears to keep talking.
posted by lampshade at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Wouldn't a gas explosion leave a crater?

Depends where the gas built up. It's not unheard of for a leak to build up gas in a surface-level building or room, then blow up without harming the pipe at all.

This, however, looks too much like the IEDs I've seen to hold out hope of a gas leak.
posted by Etrigan at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Ball bearings: Fox News, but one of their token sane anchors.

Shep Smith, right? Why is he still at Fox? He puts their entire lineup, and for that matter, most of the rest of the majors, to shame.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Could people please put their sources in their updates.

"Satan manifests in central Boston area" is not helpful
"Satan manifests in central Boston area - Fox News" is helpful

Thanks
posted by fullerine at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [39 favorites]


Photo of a victim (WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC/GORY).
posted by fight or flight at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal.

Really? I'm sure alot of people here could tell you about the workings of a nuclear device or god knows what else, the implication you may or may not have intended is not appreciated.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


Secondary devices: Boston Globe.

Yeah, I don't really feel that a single reporter tweeting stuff they hear is much of a source either.
posted by smackfu at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


shakespeherian: Can someone with knowledge of the Boston Marathon tell me whether the red scattered on the sidewalk in many of those top-angle photos is maybe some kind of traditional streamers or sillystring or something?

I don't think so, shakespeherian.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


For a Hollywoodization version of a bomb with ball bearings, just search Youtube for the movie Swordfish and explosion. Though, given the circumstances, it's a pretty graphic rendering and probably not one you want to watch today.
posted by Atreides at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Rory Marinich: "Dear god, #falseflag on Twitter is an insight into a strange and fascinating world. Lots of talk about the Rothschilds and David Icke there, I shit you not."

Everyone throwing the #falseflag hashtag around needs to surrender their humanity card.
posted by notsnot at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


I'm imagining runners crossing the line: proud, happy, and exhausted, having trained toward running this marathon for months or years...

Yeah, I can't even. When I finished my first (and only, so far) half I was so tired I had to get help to put on sweatpants. I ate a donut. I held my metal. I can't even imagine how hard a scene this was.
posted by jetlagaddict at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


BTW, for all the NYC and DC MeFites out there, our law enforcement is now officially at "heightened levels of security."
posted by zombieflanders at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Legally though aren't they supposed to wait until official information has been released? I mean it's great that Twitter/Vine/etc are providing a lot of info, but I'm okay with their families being notified.

They absolutely don't have to wait until official news releases (First Amendment).
posted by Jahaza at 1:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


22 injured. 2 dead - Boston Police Dept
posted by notme at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013


Lutoslawski: “Can someone explain the false flag stuff?”

Wikipedia: "Pseudo-operations are those in which forces of one power disguise themselves as enemy forces." Basically, the same kind of conspiracy theories people float about 9/11 being "an inside job."
posted by koeselitz at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?

Alex Jones tweeted it first, it seems. Largely it's people thinking either "Obama did this because he's a Muslim and you know those Muslims like bombs" (I saw that one on there) or "Rich people did it to distract from the gold crisis they secretly created so they can buy gold for low prices".
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Warning from BPD on BIP for secondary - Boston Globe
posted by Punkey at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013


I wouldn't necessarily take the controlled explosion as meaning a real secondary device, I suspect the police will be blowing up anything even vaguely suspicious over spending much time trying to confirm it's a bomb, and quite reasonably too. However, if there are real secondary devices, between that and the date, I'd put my bets on domestic anti-government types. It's one of their trademarks, the way the big coordinated multiple attacks was Al Queda's.
posted by tavella at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Ball bearings: Fox News, but one of their token sane anchors.


The anchors do not decide which bullshit comes out of their mouths.
posted by damehex at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


lazaruslong: "People, this thread is moving very fast, please take a breath and slow down. We don't need 15 comments answering one question, it will just fill this up with noise."

Lutoslawski: "Can someone explain the false flag stuff?"

I counted to 20 and then refreshed the page and this still wasn't answered, so here you go:

Imagine there's a fringe of people who believe that some government agency would engineer a crisis like this in order to restrict citizen's rights. That's what false flag nonsense is about.
posted by boo_radley at 1:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?

The usual conspiracy theorist bullshit: the catch-all explanation for a possible terrorist incident is that it's actually a government action intended to provide an excuse for subjugating the populace.
posted by fifthrider at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


ericb, hate to correct you in a thread as serious as this, but Boston Marathon isn't even North America's Oldest Road Race.


The Independent: "The Boston event is the world’s oldest marathon. and was first run in 1897."

It's not a 30k Road Race, 5k, 3-Person Relay or 2-Person Relay like 'Around the Bay.'
posted by ericb at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013


CBS says secret service closing pedestrian access to White House.
posted by shothotbot at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?

There are crazypants types out there who think that the government is doing this as a false-flag operation so it can take away our rights. Or something.

In the only clip of Alex Jones that I can remember hearing (talking about guns, I think), you can hear the foamy mountains of spittle forming.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The horrifying video still from Fox News that Dobi linked to really makes me cringe--not at the injury, which is appalling, but at prurience of it all. I understand that there are times the population really needs to know about the scope of terrible things that are happening. When there is an ongoing national crisis for which we must prepare, or a national debate that needs to occur, such graphic images can be justified.

But I just see gore and spectacle here. This image shows some person at their darkest moment, least prepared to face public scrutiny of their injuries. Friends and family of this runner may have seen this, all unprepared.

When disasters occur, I'd wish us to respond with empathy, and to the extent possible, dignity. I hate this sort of bread-and-circus exploitation.
posted by DrMew at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [44 favorites]


Here is a link to the Boston Police, Fire and EMS scanner feed. I had trouble with the "Web" and "Java" players but the "Windows Media Player" feed is working for me.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013


Here's the boston.com live feed update:

http://live.boston.com/Event/Live_blog_Explosion_in_Copley_Square

22 confirmed injured, 2 confirmed dead according to Boston PD.
posted by docjohn at 1:06 PM on April 15, 2013


I ran my first "long" race in February - a mere 8 miles. Part of what makes it thrilling and exciting are the throngs of supporters lining up along the route. Not spectators, but supporters. They're there to cheer you on and help you finish. The ones in the last mile especially turn your agony into joy - you feel an extra surge as you get near the finish line and feel the energy and hear the encouragement of the supporters.

Race staff are usually volunteers who are awesome as well - there to literally pick you up if you stumble or help you find the nearest porto-potty or hand you a much needed cup of water (and then pick up 10,000 crushed cups of water that missed the trash bags).

The volunteers and supporters are all people who show up not for their own glory, but to make some very tired runners feel a little less tired as they approach the end of the race. Obviously, nobody deserves to be killed or injured in a bomb blast, but the thought that somebody would place a bomb in a place where it would deliberately hurt people who are doing something nice for their fellow humans makes me very sad and very angry.

There's going to be a million rumors swirling around in the next few days (the breeding ground for eternal conspiracy theories). Let's do our best to squelch them and not repeat them. We make our own ability to process the event harder if we give credence to guesses, lies, and hysteria.

Thinking of you, Boston, and hoping for the best for all the victims of the blast.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [49 favorites]


MSNBC is saying it's an IED. But god only knows at this point.
posted by shiu mai baby at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013


WTF? Hope those responsible are found and dealt with by tomorrow. Fucking Assholes!
posted by ktrain at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


ABC just said that the cops blew up one package themselves.

Ugh, I worked two blocks away for half a dozen years, and proposed to my wife in Copley Square. I was just thinking about the Pour House today at lunchtime! Take care, Boston!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013


:( How do I stay sane while I hear about potential threats near me?
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?

A false flag operation is an attack carried out to look like it was someone else in order to make them look bad. In this case, these people believe the government and/or the Kenyan Socialist Muslim is personally responsible for the attack in order to round up True Patriots/implement Sharia law/assassinate Michelle Bachmann/etc.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:07 PM on April 15, 2013


Peeps: you can always type an answer to a question, then hit preview to see if someone answered it first.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


Can someone explain the false flag stuff?

False flag operations are military or other operations conducted in such a way as to draw blame away from the actual perpetrators and towards some other group.

In the context of domestic protest culture, the guy who "seizes the moment" of a protest in order to smash a window and start looting is often thought to be a false flag operator -- a plant put in by the police or FBI so as to give them an excuse to make arrests and raise conspiracy charges.

I am NOT saying that this was a false flag operation. I'm just describing the lingo.
posted by gauche at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Alex Jones and his ilk are a waste of fucking oxygen.
posted by Phire at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


..
posted by schmod at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2013


Sitting in a laundymat and saw this on Univision. Just amazing how little information there really is out.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 1:08 PM on April 15, 2013


(And probably a waste of this thread – we should focus on what's going on, if we can.)
posted by koeselitz at 1:09 PM on April 15, 2013


One of my closest friends is there right now, and instead of leaving the scene once explosions went off, she just started helping out as best she could, because that's the kind of person she is. I think times like this show us the worst in people but also the best too.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 1:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


:( How do I stay sane while I hear about potential threats near me?

If there were more bombs, they'd be going off. You're going to be fine.

Be careful anyway, though.
posted by Etrigan at 1:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


On the other hand, maybe knowing of its existence counts as 'great cultural significance'.

That's kind of more what I had in mind--that and the fact that it's a high-profile competition and the celebration of competition is so closely identified with American culture. And killing people indiscriminately just as they're reaching the finish line to a grueling endurance race almost seems designed to send a certain kind of destructive psychological message to those who read any kind of deeper cultural meaning into it.

Damn. If this really was another terrorist attack (whether of the domestic or non-domestic variety), it couldn't be a more cowardly, repugnant one.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).

Isn't every bomb an IED?
posted by Golden Eternity at 1:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal.

We're also the people who build the bomb sniffing and safe detonation equipment, or hope to. You can't have one without the other.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


Just watching the number of dead and wounded go up is sickening.

.
posted by kamikazegopher at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013


American Red Cross Blood Donation Centers in Boston & Schedules

Wish I was there to contribute. There in spirit. Inadequate.
posted by mean cheez at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013


. .

My neice who lives in Boston is staying with us at the moment, kind of glad of that.
posted by Artw at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Seymour Zamboni: “MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).”

I don't know that that means anything; I mean, anything outside of a natural gas accident is going to be an IED.
posted by koeselitz at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013


MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).

ALL bombs that aren't made by military contractors are IEDs.
posted by FatherDagon at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Isn't every bomb an IED?

*starts to argue*, *reconsiders*, *enlightenment*.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [23 favorites]


Isn't every bomb an IED?

As opposed to "a stick of C4 with a detonator in it."
posted by mightygodking at 1:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Can someone tell me is it true they were running this marathon in honor of the Newtown victims? I saw a tweet on one of the above links saying some of the family members were at the finish line at the VIP section. I would like very much for that not to be true.....
(My pastor has run the Boston Marathon twice. Very glad he was not there this year.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


I'd just listened to a story on NRP this morning about the group of runners from Newtown, CT who were dedicating their race to the shooting victims and families. Damn, damn and damn.
posted by Kat Allison at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Isn't every bomb an IED?

Some are manufactured; some are handcrafted. The difference is mostly one of delivery method and several billions of dollars in development costs.
posted by fifthrider at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).

I can't help but wonder if that term is being used because people already know what it means in association with the wars in the middle east.
posted by clockzero at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


It's hard to tell from the Twitter picture, but is that right at the top of the stairs for the Copley Sq. MBAT stop, at Dartmouth & Exeter? Or is it by the LIbrary, or even partway up the block by the Lenox Hotel?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).

Isn't every bomb an IED?

Not if they're mass-produced military ordnance. A stolen claymore mine, for instance, is not an IED (unless it's fiddled with).
posted by Etrigan at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston-area WBZ-TV is currently saying 2 dead and 22 injured. They interviewed a woman who said she's a nurse and was working on people in the medical tent until the police temporarily wanted to sweep it and she said she saw or treated a woman who had lost a leg.
posted by XMLicious at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


Isn't every bomb an IED?

Not manufactured munitions. For instance the failed grenade attack in Georgia (the country) during a Bush speech with a "Soviet-made RGD-5 hand grenade."
posted by Jahaza at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013


If it was in fact a bomb, I'm okay with Fox News calling it terrorism, as long as its terrorism regardless of who did it. But I suspect Fox News only calls it terrorism when the perpetrators have names like Mohammed.
posted by dry white toast at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


... and I swear to god the first internet meme that says something about people needing to run faster is getting a sucker-punch right to their karma.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


From Boston Police spokesperson RT @CherylFiandaca: 22 injured. 2 dead
posted by jetlagaddict at 1:12 PM on April 15, 2013


The race ends more or less right in front of the library, if I remember correctly.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:12 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston.com is down, but they're running a liveblog.
posted by donajo at 1:12 PM on April 15, 2013


John Green, whom I'm normally not a huge fan of:

"In the absence of info, who/what we assume is responsible ends up saying a lot more about us than it does about anyone or anything else."

posted by Phire at 1:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


At this point, I absolutely do not give a shit who did it, or why. I care that my friends and colleagues in Boston, and other people, are okay.

The 'who did it', and the 'why', are things for a different time. Not this precise time.
posted by Wordshore at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The 2 dead and 22 injured is coming from Cheryl Fiandaca, the Boston Police Department’s public information bureau chief, FYI.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2013


No Fly Zone declared over bombing site and surrounding areas

BPD and BFD have scheduled a conference for 1630 Eastern.
posted by Punkey at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2013


St. Alia of the Bunnies: It's true, but I don't know where people were located.

Newtown Parents To Run Boston Marathon


Boston race to honor Newtown
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Been about half an hour since the last mention: chat.metafilter.com
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2013


The Boston Globe twitter account is updating quickly.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston Police Department official number has now been adjusted to 23 injured, 2 dead.
posted by koeselitz at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Confirmed explosion at the JFK Library - (EMS live audio feed)
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


So just before 3:00 I decided to get up and out, go pick up some tortilla chips to go with my nice ripe avocado, and maybe get a coffee at my place along Boylston, and see some of the last runners. It's more fun to cheer for the people who finish with plus-3-hour times; they need it more.

There were a few ambulances in the distance, but some people who shouldn't really run a marathon sometimes try the Boston Marathon, and they sometimes faint. But the number of sirens just kept mounting, and everyone walking the other way was on their mobile phone, looking serious. So I asked a guy working in the Fenway Victory Garden and he said he heard two explosions, and was listening to the Boston Police scanners in his iPhone. Going further inbound everyone is on their phone, and looking more and more serious, a few people with finishers' medal among the spectators, one girl a little teary telling someone on her phone "I upset, yeah I'm okay".

I didn't even make it to Mass Ave before I decided to turn back and phone family on the West Coast, so they hear I'm okay before they hear the news.

Currently on the news: 2 dead, 23 injuries. My poor city.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [28 favorites]


Somebody just said "Confirmed explosion; JFK library" on the feeds.
posted by fifthrider at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Scanner says confirmed explosion at JFK library. No injuries reported.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


No source but this seems to show a mailbox before the explosion and not after
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A small homemade bomb caused the explosion according to NBC News, from law enforcement.
posted by blahblahblah at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


CBS News is reporting that Boston Marathon officials are calling the explosions as coming from "bombs" (as opposed to a natural gas leak or what-not).
posted by docjohn at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Scanner chatter says there was an explosion at the JFK Library.
posted by radicalawyer at 1:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Isn't every bomb an IED?

Strictly speaking, many of the roadside bombs used by insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan should not be called IEDs. "IED" originally referred to something like an Iraqi army artillery shell buried by the side of the road with a crude trigger attached.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


If, like me, you don't know what to do when you see something like this, I recommend calling someone you love and telling them so.

You can also take a first aid class

And of course, if you are able to, go donate some blood.
You can also look into getting involved with amateur radio emergency communications.
posted by knile at 1:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


via Reuters - a Twitter search for photos posted within one mile of the finish line. No guarantees re: triggers or explicit content.
posted by Phire at 1:15 PM on April 15, 2013


Unsurprisingly, The Guardian's liveblog is fantastic, also.
posted by donajo at 1:15 PM on April 15, 2013



:( How do I stay sane while I hear about potential threats near me?

This was a small anti-personnel device (to use military terminology). The people who did this were targeting the crowd. Avoid places where a crowd might collect and you're likely to be safe.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal."

One of the great things about this site is that the hivemind has expertise in almost every subject imaginable.
posted by Jacqueline at 1:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [29 favorites]


In shock. All our friends are safe and we never go downtown on marathon day. My sister in law is a nurse at mgh, she's fine and they are waiting for the influx of victims. I have no words, hopefully it is an accident. Please, let it be an accident.
posted by lydhre at 1:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


No source but this seems to show a mailbox before the explosion and not after

That's pretty darn thin, since the Google Street View could be years old, and it's pretty standard to remove trash cans / mailboxes from an event's area.
posted by smackfu at 1:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Punkey: “BPD and BFD have scheduled a conference for 1330 Eastern.”

Either that's an address, or it should be "1630 Eastern" – that is, 4:30pm eastern, which is in 13 minutes. I'm still looking for a live feed.
posted by koeselitz at 1:17 PM on April 15, 2013


BREAKING: Multiple explosive devices found, at least 2 which exploded, officials tell NBC News
posted by BobbyVan at 1:17 PM on April 15, 2013


News conference at 4:30 pm
Apparently, there were multiple explosive devices, two blew up. Again, from NBC news.
posted by blahblahblah at 1:17 PM on April 15, 2013


St. Alia of the Bunnies: Is it true they were running this marathon in honor of the Newtown victims?

AP via ESPN: There were 26 seconds of silence at the start of the race, and the last mile of the race was dedicated to the victims.

WBUR: A group of Newtown parents ran the marathon to raise money for scholarships for siblings of the children lost in the Sandy Hook massacre.

Dear God. I hope they're all safe. (I'm from Maine, and the marathon is a big deal here -- lots of people head down on Patriots Day to cheer on runners they know.)
posted by virago at 1:17 PM on April 15, 2013


Fire at JFK Library was not related -- mechanical in nature.
posted by shiu mai baby at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The library explosion was BPD detonating a package.
Boston Globe's twitter feed
posted by cmfletcher at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Again, seriously, please just put the brakes on gaming out the who-knew-what-when stuff and the false flag chatter, there'll be plenty of time to talk about media posturing or conspiracy theories or whatever tomorrow or next week but we don't need to do that right now and right here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


No source but this seems to show a mailbox before the explosion and not after

That's pretty darn thin, since the Google Street View could be years old, and it's pretty standard to remove trash cans / mailboxes from an event's area.

Not to mention that the circled area is nowhere near the lightpole, which should be a fixed point of reference.
posted by fifthrider at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


@LiamWCVB
Mass General has 19 patients, six critical, including multiple amputations #WCVB #Boston
(Tweet from WCVB, local ABC news, live feed page)
posted by maryr at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013


MSNBC is saying the fire at the library is "mechanical" and not suspicious.
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013


MSNBC reporting that 1 bomb was an IED (improvised explosive device).

And please remember that MSNBC loves to grab an idea and babble continuously about it until such time something bigger comes along. Then they pretend like they never said a word. Same too with Fox.

How many tens of thousands of times per day did they say the words fiscal & cliff in January?

CNN is infuriating, just endlessly repeating the fact that they have no information about what happened. "Look at that smoke. That smoke is gray. Look at that."

Trust the news sources that have the maturity to not speculate.
posted by lampshade at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


My brother ran that race a few years ago and his wife is from Boston. I hope none of their friends and family were hurt. I also hope everyone here and their loved ones are OK.
posted by TedW at 1:18 PM on April 15, 2013


ball bearings suggest a shrapnel bomb, which means someone was aiming for maximum injuries and deaths.

Some might remember this thread about a failed bombing attempt at a MLK celebration in Spokane, Washington, in 2011. That was a shrapnel bomb, though the article didn't mention ball bearings specifically:

The Bomb That Didn't Go Off
posted by homunculus at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I am really hating Twitter as a method for news dissemination. Thorough and accurate information seldom fits in 140 characters.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


> Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal.

There is no such thing as bad, correct knowledge.
posted by sourcequench at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [23 favorites]


@TimWilliamsCBS 28m #BREAKINGNEWS: AP reporter says Newtown families were in the VIP section right by the explosion. No injury reports. via @janus303
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Christ. One of my professors was running. He hadn't finished the race before the explosions occurred but I have no idea where he was.

Wish there were like, one nice thing that some asshole couldn't just fuck up.

Sick of hearing the same accounts over and over again on the news.
posted by dismas at 1:20 PM on April 15, 2013


Can anybody here tell me what the implications of the no fly zone are? I can't make any sense of that link. Does this mean planes bound for Logan will be diverted? My husband is currently en route from DC.

God this is horrifying.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 1:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Depends how big it is... they may just use a different approach in to Logan to avoid downtown. I'm not sure which way they're flying today.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:22 PM on April 15, 2013


Does this mean planes bound for Logan will be diverted?

Planes bound for Logan don't fly over that part of the city on any of the usual approaches.
posted by eriko at 1:22 PM on April 15, 2013


:( How do I stay sane while I hear about potential threats near me?

Be aware that you are quite literally more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist. This is a horrible crime, but it is not a statistically realistic threat to you personally. Fear is what the murderer wanted to produce. It is both right and rational to resist that feeling.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [74 favorites]


"Good to know that so many people here know how to make bombs more lethal."

We all read the Anarchists' Cookbook in high school.

Some of us just pay attention to news stories. This isn't some kind of forbidden knowledge.
posted by vidur at 1:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [29 favorites]


It'll only affect planes if they'd have to go over it if part of the normal traffic pattern. I'm fairly certain it's a stay the fuck away for news choppers.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


boston pd scanner:
device at jfk (?) appears to be incendiary.
confirmed explosion at (?) library need to deploy resources.
EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) needed at Westin
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Protip: watching a 24 hour newsnet is probably the worst thing you can do right now to keep your sanity. Their job is to keep your eyeballs glued to them, so they repeat any random information that comes their way, and then just say "we have unconfirmed reports". It will only freak you out unnecessarily, and keep you watching.

Remember, "a lie can make it half way around the world while the truth is still putting its boots on."

The Guardian or Boston Globe liveblogs are probably safe bets, and I'm sure others can suggest sources they consider sane.
posted by dry white toast at 1:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [45 favorites]


The no fly zone is only "From the surface up to and including 3000 feet AGL", and the purpose is to "TO PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR BOMB EXPLOSION". That's not much of a "no-fly zone", since most planes fly above 3000 feet.
posted by smackfu at 1:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Interesting (wonderful?) thing about the Guardian's coverage is that the majority of the commenters seem to be asking for comments to be closed.
posted by Jofus at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Airspace Definition:
Center: On the BOSTON VOR/DME (BOS) 279 degree radial at 4.1 nautical miles. (Latitude: 42º20'56"N, Longitude: 71º04'56"W)
Radius: 3 nautical miles
Altitude: From the surface up to and including 3000 feet AGL

It bumps up against Logan's property, apparently. Airlines could still fly in from the north or south, depending on which approaches are being used.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Be aware that you are quite literally more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist.

You are also much more likely to be killed by Chicago, not a person, but the whole city. Even if you don't live here. It will come to where you live. And kill you.

That said, my heart goes out to Boston and everyone affected by this egregious act.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Best liveblog option is a set of vetted twitter sources compiled by the Guardian.
posted by blahblahblah at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


How awful this must be for runners who knew that friends and family were ahead cheering them on, and perhaps they can't immediately get in touch because they may not have wanted to run with their Cell phone.
posted by saffry at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Friend of MsEld just posted this on facebook, no cite, could be her own thoughts:

"As a human this is heart breaking and beyond comprehension. As a runner, it makes me wish to use the speed, strength, and endurance to catch the lowly creature and slowly tear out their esophagus through their nostrils."
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


An old friend of mine was running today, and her entire family went to watch. Her sister and brother-and-law (who had flown in from CA) were a block away from the explosion. She would have finished at about 3:30PM if nothing had happened. I'm just glad she wasn't faster.

My mom, who's very close with the mother of my runner friend, was on a conference call at her house on Cape Cod when all of this happened. She found out about the explosion when I texted her to ask if she'd gone into the city to watch the race. We had about twenty minutes of panic before she managed to track people down.

What a sad, awful mess this all is.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 1:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


dry white toast: “Protip: watching a 24 hour newsnet is probably the worst thing you can do right now to keep your sanity.”

Absolutely true. Another great alternative: the WBUR public radio livestream. Calm and careful, exactly as it ought to be.
posted by koeselitz at 1:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Oh shit. My heart is in my throat for the first responders on scene. Possible multiple incendiary devices, multiple simultaneous explosions... that is exactly the sort of scenario where secondary devices (aimed at rescuers and designed to go off a certain amount of time after the first explosions) seem likely. I hope to God my intuition is wrong on this one, but I am fucking worried for those EMS personnel.
posted by WidgetAlley at 1:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


From The Boston Globe Twitter
UPDATE: Intelligence official: 2 more explosive devices found at Boston Marathon; being dismantled- @ap— The Boston Globe (@BostonGlobe) April 15, 2013

posted by right_then at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013


Protip: watching a 24 hour newsnet is probably the worst thing you can do right now to keep your sanity

Yea, I learned that during 9/11.
posted by sweetkid at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Map of the explosions' locations by the Globe
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Atlantic has photos. (Warning. These are photos in a thread about a bombing. They are probably not pretty.)

Picture #8 is *definitely* disturbing.
posted by eriko at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Based on what I've seen of the (horrible) injuries, the explosive force must have travelled along the ground somehow.
posted by Trochanter at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston Globe maps one unexploded device at 600 Boylston
posted by Punkey at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Terrorist logic is fascinating. If bombs had exploded at some small-town marathon it would still be news, but the way this is such a direct attack on American iconography makes it seem like that aspect of it is is unlikely to be random.
posted by crayz at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It bumps up against Logan's property, apparently. Airlines could still fly in from the north or south, depending on which approaches are being used.

Thanks, backseatpilot.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 1:28 PM on April 15, 2013


Actual question I once (long ago) heard an anchor ask a guest "expert" during a crisis on CNN: "Can you speculate about the assumptions we just heard?"
posted by dry white toast at 1:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [48 favorites]


Has anybody found a live stream of the press conference that's supposed to start right about now?
posted by koeselitz at 1:29 PM on April 15, 2013


I learned about ball bearings and bombs via Hogan's Heroes.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:29 PM on April 15, 2013


video of second explosion
posted by Mach5 at 1:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Damn, this is terrible. And yeah, the Boston Marathon is a big deal to runners. It's sort of the superbowl for runners.
posted by octothorpe at 1:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Reports of fire at JFK Library UNRELATED, electrical fire caused closure - Boston Globe
posted by Punkey at 1:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I had just left, and was on my bike over the bridge in Cambridge, when the explosions happened.

This is horrific. Sick.
posted by Cygnet at 1:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


"...seconds after the explosions, you see hundreds of people running TOWARDS the carnage to help. Not away." -- Paul Kozlowski (source)
posted by Phire at 1:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


News conference just confirmed they were bombs - NBC News

EDIT: Statement from from Mass General spokesperson.
posted by Punkey at 1:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just heard. WTF.
posted by Miko at 1:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I also have to say that it was amazing how many people were all using their mobiles at the same time, and I didn't see anyone muttering about not being able to get a signal.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by ageispolis at 1:33 PM on April 15, 2013


video of second explosion

I retract my statement about a deflagration. That was a clear detonation.
posted by eriko at 1:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


video of second explosion

Just audio, really.
posted by smackfu at 1:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Can we please get the speculating maroons off of CNN/MSNBC/Faux News please?
posted by playertobenamedlater at 1:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sweet holy fuck, I just found out about this. I looked up at work to the TV they have in the back to see a whole bunch of guys in yellow jackets milling about and the headline "NYPD on alert after explosions in Boston" and that makes one quite alarmed.

Just called both my parents (on Cape Cod) and my brother's family (just across the Cape Cod Canal from the Cape) to check in and make sure no one had gone to the marathon. Although as my brother's phone was ringing, I remembered Mom saying something about the whole family being down for the count with various illnesses, so when I got the machine I was sounding a bit more cheerful ("Hi - hope you all are doing okay and getting over everything, although that's probably a good sign that no one went to Boston today anyway so...yay?")
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:35 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm taking some small comfort in the fact that there were likely more medical personnel on hand than would be at most other types of large events/mass gatherings.
posted by Kabanos at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [24 favorites]


I also have to say that it was amazing how many people were all using their mobiles at the same time, and I didn't see anyone muttering about not being able to get a signal.

I guess they must have made preparations for increased cellular traffic during the marathon?
posted by fifthrider at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Makes me feel so old and so helpless and so sad.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


New York Post: Authorities ID'd a suspect in marathon bombings - he is being guarded in Boston hospital
posted by BobbyVan at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Can we please get the speculating maroons off of CNN/MSNBC/Faux News please?

Yes, let's return to the era of completely sane and reliable cable news.
posted by mattbucher at 1:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


How awful this must be for runners who knew that friends and family were ahead cheering them on, and perhaps they can't immediately get in touch because they may not have wanted to run with their Cell phone.

Having been in the middle of one such citywide event, I can assure you that no one who needed to borrow a cell phone went without.

It only takes a couple of shitheads to demonstrate how good millions of people are.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [43 favorites]


Re: "how to make bombs more lethal", one of the reasons that someone would be aware of shrapnel bombs from following the news or reading history is that a shrapnel bomb is specifically an anti-personnel weapon and if you build one you are intending to kill and injure people.

Bill Ayers, for example, said that when he was with the Weathermen they just wanted to blow up and damage buildings to gain publicity for their cause; which may have been true at the time because it was consistent with what they did up till then. But later on several members died while assembling a nail bomb, so they evidently had become more radicalized.
posted by XMLicious at 1:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Those images of bloody sidewalks and seriously injured people are horrific and heartbreaking.

Not, all in all, that dissimilar to the photos from this morning's bombings in Iraq. So many prayers.
posted by jetlagaddict at 1:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


CNN just mentioned Al Quaeda. Does that mean I have BINGO?
posted by Splunge at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


Does anyone know how the controlled explosions of suspicious devices work? Do they attempt to make it explode (like by jarring it or something) or do they add they add another explosive device?
posted by double bubble at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: If you have to ask if it's too soon, it's too soon.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [46 favorites]


New York Post: Authorities ID'd a suspect in marathon bombings - he is being guarded in Boston hospital

This is the same rag that reported 12 dead though
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


It only takes a couple of shitheads to demonstrate how good millions of people are.

Yeah. I'd like to give a brief shout out to the kind, thoughtful, and caring people of the world, in all of your multitudes.

Thank you.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 1:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


And that purported suspect in the hospital -- watch that guy turn out to be a bystander with brown skin.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Someone on Twitter reminded me that the London Marathon is this weekend. Given this evening's events I bet the security around the race going to be even more insane than usual.
posted by fight or flight at 1:41 PM on April 15, 2013


New York Post: Authorities ID'd a suspect in marathon bombings - he is being guarded in Boston hospital

When you post shit like that, you might want to provide a warning to people about the violent content. Jesus Fucking Christ, dude.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Does anyone know how the controlled explosions of suspicious devices work? Do they attempt to make it explode (like by jarring it or something) or do they add they add another explosive device?

Every method I've seen uses a second device to blow up the first one. The idea is to tear apart the first one so it doesn't explode at all.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Actual question I once (long ago) heard an anchor ask a guest "expert" during a crisis on CNN: "Can you speculate about the assumptions we just heard?"

I once heard someone on CSPAN say "I agree with what I just said".

Yeah, I'd hope so.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


We'll find out in enough time what happened - who did it, what kind of bomb it was for sure. I'll save any speculation.

But, since the world can use this right now, I'll just leave this right here. (found via reddit)
posted by azpenguin at 1:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [33 favorites]


so far, this page is the best informed news source out there, thank you all
posted by ouke at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm fine (work a few miles south of Boston) and everyone I know is - so far - fine. My girlfriend's a runner and a bunch of her friends were either at the finish line or in the race, and so far all but one (one of the runners) has checked in okay.

One of her friends who was running and was at mile 23 is currently volunteering in the med tents, and from all accounts it's pretty horrific in there right now. No other new info I haven't already seen in this thread.
posted by Ryvar at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Agree that the natural, immediate, human response is kind and beautiful. Usually takes a few days for the evil stupid response to take hold. (I guess if you're not that Alex guy.)
posted by Trochanter at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2013


I also have to say that it was amazing how many people were all using their mobiles at the same time, and I didn't see anyone muttering about not being able to get a signal.

I have at least 3 Boston-area people (including 2 people at or near the race) on Facebook saying that they're posting there and asking people to spread the word that they're okay because they can't get a call or text to go through. That was back when it first happened and the news started to break through. Haven't seen anything about phone signals since then.
posted by educatedslacker at 1:43 PM on April 15, 2013


And another reminder about chat.metafilter.com
posted by Stewriffic at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Someone on Twitter reminded me that it's also the London Marathon is this weekend. Given this evening's events I bet the security around the race going to be even more insane than usual.

Bombing at the London Marathon is even a key plot device in a spy novel (Dead Spy Running). UK has known terror for a long time, I am sure they are always prepared at such large events anyway.
posted by vidur at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


One of her friends who was running and was at mile 23 is currently volunteering in the med tents

Okay, I'm impressed.
posted by theodolite at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


And that purported suspect in the hospital -- watch that guy turn out to be a bystander with brown skin.

You don't know that, and assuming the worst won't help. There is a lot of injustice in the world, but maybe save discussing it for later, and leave this thread for actual information.
posted by dubold at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


Ground level video of explosions/aftermath from finish line - Boston Globe (WARNING)

AMERICAN RED CROSS REGISTERED SAFE LISTINGS PLEASE RT/SHARE
posted by Punkey at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity..."
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


News conference will begin in about 2 minutes from the command center based at the Westin Hotel. BPD Public Information Bureau Chief
posted by cmfletcher at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013


They're encouraging people to text instead of call because it uses less bandwidth.
posted by Weeping_angel at 1:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Red Sox game was played to completion today, in Boston, correct?

There is a Bruins (NHL/hockey) game tonight about a mile from the finish line (estimated looking at Google Maps) -- wondering if that's still happening.
posted by Lukenlogs at 1:45 PM on April 15, 2013


Agree that the natural, immediate, human response is kind and beautiful. Usually takes a few days for the evil stupid response to take hold. (I guess if you're not that Alex guy.)

Alex Jones might best be described as both unnatural and inhuman.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Does anyone know how the controlled explosions of suspicious devices work? Do they attempt to make it explode (like by jarring it or something) or do they add they add another explosive device?

Every method I've seen uses a second device to explode the first one. The idea is to tear apart the first one so it doesn't explode at all.

EOD personnel will occasionally shoot a suspected bomb, but only after they've confirmed its specifications and don't want to get close enough to it to set another device. Usually only in open environments, though.
posted by Etrigan at 1:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Red Sox played early today and game ended about 2:15.
posted by Miko at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


There is a Bruins (NHL/hockey) game tonight about a mile from the finish line (estimated looking at Google Maps) -- wondering if that's still happening.

Even if it wasn't a huge security risk, I doubt people's hearts would be in it (fans and players).
posted by dhens at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2013


Scanners reporting a Penske truck pulled up to scene, driver claimed truck contained "medical supplies." Truck was turned away. Authorities now searching for truck.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


> It's a huge event in Boston since people have off work/school

It always felt like a marker that spring was really here.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


They're encouraging people to text instead of call because it uses less bandwidth.

Tell my cellphone company that.
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


Bruins game is cancelled
posted by cmfletcher at 1:47 PM on April 15, 2013


An acquaintance of mine was there. (He lives nearby, was taking lots of pics.) He tweeted:
"I felt both blasts in my chest; there was considerable blast wave. But I am totally uninjured. The smoke smelled like gunpowder --- fireworks --- rather than a high-tech explosive. To me, that suggests some wacko amateur rather than a professional attack."

Disclaimer: [My personal speculation, skip this comment if you don't approve of doing that.] I can't find who first mentioned tax day above, but that came to my mind too. The teevee newspeople keep talking about "Patriots" Day, but not the fact it's April fricking 15. Also the Newton families, now associated, with the "controversial" topic of gun control, were being honored there.

I wouldn't be surprised this is not some large conspiracy or foreign attack, but a domestic "incident."
posted by NorthernLite at 1:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The BBC have confirmed that the London Marathon will still go ahead.
posted by fight or flight at 1:47 PM on April 15, 2013


Does anyone know how the controlled explosions of suspicious devices work? Do they attempt to make it explode (like by jarring it or something) or do they add they add another explosive device?

It depends. Explosive Ordnance Disposal.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I wasn't trying to be edgy and progressive. I was responding to another comment, but this thread is just moving too fast. Apologies.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:47 PM on April 15, 2013


You don't know that, and assuming the worst won't help. There is a lot of injustice in the world, but maybe save discussing it for later, and leave this thread for actual information.

Agreed. One of the things that really bugs me about these sorts of on-going discussions is the need people feel to speculate wildly when there's never any kind of accountability for being wrong. Coming in here to speculate that it's white people or Tea Party types is no different than getting on Facebook to say that you know it's the Muslims. The same goes for assuming, without evidence, that there's some kind of racist backlashing going on.

The news will come out, you don't have to make it happen by inventing it.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [18 favorites]


2 Dead, 64 Wounded - Boston Globe
posted by Punkey at 1:49 PM on April 15, 2013


Right now, if you are in Boston and you see a package lying around unattended, move away, call police.

Yes, it is almost certainly not a bomb. But in the next few hours, do not bet that it is not a bomb. More importantly, don't make people who didn't see the package bet that it isn't a bomb. Two devices exploded and one controlled explosion implies there might be more.

I hate to sound like I'm paranoid, but right now, if you're near Copley Square, boxes are presumed deadly.

Do they attempt to make it explode (like by jarring it or something) or do they add they add another explosive device?

You put a charge next to the device. If they have time and can either see a detonator or xray for it, they can use a water disruptor to try to destroy the detonator, but if you're moving fast, the best you can do is make the bomb blow up on your own terms.

The problem with using charges is sympathetic detonations. A water disruptor avoids that, but you need to know exactly how to point it. If you're dealing with something like smokeless powder, you can shatter the container -- without compression, the effects of gunpowder and smokeless power are dramatically reduced. But if you're thinking C4, setting off C4 next to it will almost certainly set off both charges.

But if you do that when you control the area, nobody gets hurt. When you can't control the area, or the charge is just too large, then you have to attempt to disarm it -- you don't want to go there, of course. The way you do that is you remove the detonators, if they go off outside of the primary explosive, it's an annoyance. Military explosives often have disarm traps, as well, which discourages direct disarming, and encourages controlled explosions, even more.
posted by eriko at 1:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


My college roommate and her husband raised over twenty thousand dollars for the homeless to run the marathon today in celebration of their tenth anniversary.

Someone posted on Facebook that they are ok.

I just am going to hold my sleeping baby now.
posted by bq at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


FAA is delaying all arrivals into Logan.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Picture #8 is *definitely* disturbing.


Oh. That confirms What I thought I saw on abcnews. God bless the people who help others in a crisis.
posted by double bubble at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


News conference starting now....
posted by docjohn at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013


That New York Post article that claimed a suspect is in custody is turning out to be a bit inaccurate on other details, incidentally. It says, for example, that the death toll is officially 12 - which is a bit bigger than the numbers released by BPD. Their "secret sources" might turn out to be right, but I'm not counting on it.
posted by koeselitz at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Part of the problem with this is that everything I hear I hear four times from facebook/twitter/WBUR/the web. so it's hard to tell whether new information is actually new information.

Can't concentrate on work, should stop paying attention to this stuff but can't help but worry about friends I haven't heard from and whose plans I don't know.

Fuck.

Also, seriously, quit fucking speculating about the perpetrators for now. Please.
posted by dismas at 1:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Won't there be a lot of camera footage and surveillance video from that area? I'd imagine private citizens were recording the scene at the finish line and the police might also have been using video surveillance given the size and nature of the event.

(I'm hoping this is true and helps the police catch the bomber.)
posted by Area Man at 1:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I can't find who first mentioned tax day above, but that came to my mind too. The teevee newspeople keep talking about "Patriots" Day, but not the fact it's April fricking 15. Also the Newton families, now associated, with the "controversial" topic of gun control, were being honored there.

In the god-forsaken land that is Facebook, a friend was pointing out that it's 20 year since Waco and 18 years since OK City. I noted the Newtown connection, and also that there were fairly large Tea Party rallies in Boston over the weekend.

Some woman chimed in (who was, apparently, fine with talking about the Waco/OK City connection) and got all bent out of shape when I pointed out the Newtown connection, saying that we shouldn't be speculating "while the bodies were still being counted".

People get all kinds of weird about Newtown.
posted by anastasiav at 1:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


WBUR is airing audio of the press conference now, if you want to listen.
posted by koeselitz at 1:51 PM on April 15, 2013


Won't there be a lot of camera footage and surveillance video from that area? I'd imagine private citizens were recording the scene at the finish line and the police might also have been using video surveillance given the size and nature of the event.

(I'm hoping this is true and helps the police catch the bomber.)

Cops have requested that anyone who was filming nearby at any point send them photos, in case they accidentally captured footage of the bomb being placed
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Holy shit, JFK Library may've been related after all.
posted by shiu mai baby at 1:52 PM on April 15, 2013


Stay classy, Jennifer Rubin.
posted by wikipedia brown boy detective at 1:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Deval Patrick just confirmed that there were three explosions.
posted by koeselitz at 1:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Update: my friend finished in 3:46 and is fine, as are those in her group.

And she's a nurse.
posted by Madamina at 1:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [17 favorites]


Thank you all for a relatively sane and calm place to get updates.

(People who are speculating about perpetrators, I'm flagging you. Stop it.)
posted by wintersweet at 1:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Bill Ayers, for example, said that when he was with the Weathermen they just wanted to blow up and damage buildings to gain publicity for their cause; which may have been true at the time because it was consistent with what they did up till then. But later on several members died while assembling a nail bomb, so they evidently had become more radicalized.


XMLicious, I think you have it backwards. It was the accidental detonation that caused them to reconsider the acceptability of human casualties. The bomb was intended for use at an NCO dance at Fort Dix. After seeing the consequences of the accident, they decided that it was not okay to attack people and limited themselves to a strategy of property damage.

At least, this is my understanding from watching a documentary a few years ago. The Wikipedia account has a citation needed tag.
posted by compartment at 1:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Another explosion at the JFK Library?!
posted by Our Ship Of The Imagination! at 1:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Man, one thing that's depressing to me is how good everyone's gotten at this. There are already Facebook memes with candles and hearts, "our thoughts and prayers go out," etc. We've gotten so great at autopiloting grief when it's mass murder time.
posted by Miko at 1:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [91 favorites]


Any alternative stream for the press conference? WBUR server seems overwhelmed.
posted by enn at 1:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Red Cross link to report in safe or attempt to find runners: http://www.redcross.org/find-help/contact-family/register-safe-listing
posted by mareli at 1:54 PM on April 15, 2013


Police are confirming only three incidents occurred -- the two bombs on Boylston St., and a separate explosion at JFK Library (which is way far away from these other 2 bombs).
posted by docjohn at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Also, Deval Patrick just stated that NO other devices were found; there were only the three explosions, and that's it.
posted by koeselitz at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Oklahoma bombing was done by a guy here ...

BTW -- that bombing was on April 19, 1995.

April 19 is the actual date of the battles of Concord and Lexington. Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols and others view/viewed the date as symbolic.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Not suggesting that this bombing is related, but want to point out the previous historical context.
posted by ericb at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm taking classes at Harvard, they just sent notice that classes are cancelled tonight.
posted by Miko at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013


From the Boston Globe Twitter feed: "Boston Police asking for everyone who has taken video of finish line to let them know, could have clues of activity."

I hope you're right Area Man.
posted by chatongriffes at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013


I live ONE BLOCK from Copley Sq and just coincidentally happened to be out of town today.

I am so sick over this. This is my HOME. The library where my son plays in the children's section is covered in blood. I walk that block nearly every day. Right behind the explosions is a grocery store where we buy our bread. Were we in town, we would have been outside at the playground, two blocks away. We would have see the smoke.

I can't get over this. Sickened hardly covers it. I've been crying and if puking would somehow help, I'd be doing that too.

Please hold my home in the light or what have you.
posted by sonika at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [62 favorites]


Stay classy, Jennifer Rubin.

Is this her idea of a joke re: Kermit Gosnell? If so, she's right down there with Alex Jones.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Keep trying the WBUR link - it will load eventually. Took a couple of tries.
posted by PuppyCat at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013


dubold: "And that purported suspect in the hospital -- watch that guy turn out to be a bystander with brown skin."

You don't know that, and assuming the worst won't help. There is a lot of injustice in the world, but maybe save discussing it for later, and leave this thread for actual information.

mudpuppy: I wasn't trying to be edgy and progressive. I was responding to another comment, but this thread is just moving too fast. Apologies.

I think that humans tend to speculate when they don't know what's going on, especially when events scare us. It's a natural tendency. We have entire television networks devoted to speculating about events, people, politics. I mean, this is essentially the business model for cable news.

While it'd be nice if MeFi were a speculation-free-zone I think that's a bit much to ask.

My opinion is, we ought to leave it to the mods to clean up instead of snarkily calling each other out about what is and what is not appropriate to say here. We can't know what each person's life experiences bring to the table and why they might be expressing the thoughts that they are.
posted by IvoShandor at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


If you are posting a link to a tweet, can you please post the text of the tweet, too? Twitter is blocked at work for me (and, I'd assume, many others too).
posted by troika at 1:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


NY Post account changed to be Saudi national

Given the BPD has just now stated no current suspects in custody, I'd disregard.
posted by Punkey at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Google has a Person Finder service spun up.
posted by mhoye at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


New York Post: "The suspect — a Saudi national who suffered shrapnel wounds in today's blast — is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital." (WARNING: Some photos in linked story are graphic.)

No other outlets reporting/confirming nationality of "suspect" yet.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2013


Any of the speculation mentioning domestic terrorists? It is, after all, April 15th.
posted by Chuffy at 1:56 PM on April 15, 2013


Glad to have this thread so I can keep up with the news without having to try to avoid pics.

Everyone here in DC seems a bit on edge. Security perimeter increased around the White House and extra Metro security reported, but I assume that's SOP and not in response to any sort of intelligence.
posted by JoanArkham at 1:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


WCVB STREAM
posted by Oddly at 1:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Please stop posting shit from the NY Post because they are making it up out of whole cloth.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [73 favorites]


From JFK Library Twitter: "Fire in building is out, appears to have started in the mechanical room of new building. All staff and visitors are accounted for and safe." This was at 4:23 so not sure if the recent reports on CNN etc. are just getting to it or if it's new.
posted by justnathan at 1:57 PM on April 15, 2013


The New York Post is not a reliable source, stop giving them page views PLEASE
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


I don't trust the New York Post. Maybe they got a scoop. Maybe they didn't. I'll wait 'til I hear from a less yellow source.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013


@sesamestreet: Our hearts go out to all those affected by today's tragic events. We recommend not exposing young children to repeated images in the news.
Protip for Alex Jones, Jennifer Rubin et al: that's how to be classy.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [42 favorites]


From Press Briefing by Comissioner: JFK explosion was related explosion, not controlled explosion.
posted by Stynxno at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013


Is this her idea of a joke re: Kermit Gosnell? If so, she's right down there with Alex Jones.

It's a reference to this Sarah Kliff (also at WaPo) tweet about Gosnell.
posted by wikipedia brown boy detective at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


According to Boston Globe, they are referring to the earlier incident at the library. See above.
posted by justnathan at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013


Confirmed by Police Commissioner press conference - two explosions near the finish line, plus one controlled detonation on Boylston street; another incident at JFK library that they are treating as related. Four explosions/devices total - no other devices found.
posted by Tiresias at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Given the BPD has just now stated no current suspects in custody, I'd disregard.

The Post has a long history of being full of crap, so yeah.

As far as any reputable news source has reported to my knowledge, there's currently no suspect, foreign or otherwise.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:58 PM on April 15, 2013


Next briefing at 7 pm.
posted by Stynxno at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013


My wife is a runner. Narrowly missed qualifying for Boston this year (thankfully?). I have been introduced to the sport through her, and we have travelled to a half dozen cities for Marathons. I have always been struck by how friendly the races are. Thousands of people show up to yell, cheer, ring cowbells, dance play music and generally push people along their fight against the course and the clock. They're one of the most reliable expressions of human drive and support I know.

Fuck the psychopaths who decided that would make good horror fuel. Fuck me for reacting in the exact opposite spirit as the races I love (that was the intent, I'm sure. Fuckers.)
posted by Popular Ethics at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


JFK Library had confirmed bombing, according to BPD - TPM

Library spokesman states no injuries.
posted by Punkey at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston PD are treating JFK Library incident as related to the Boylston St. bombs for now. Too early to say more... Friend who works at JFK Library says that it was only a fire in a mechanical room (not an explosion).
posted by docjohn at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah please no more New York Post.
posted by trip and a half at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


This makes me so sad for so many reasons. My heart goes out to the people of Boston and the families of the runners and first responders. This also makes me wish our news media was less about money and creating drama and more about verifiable information.

Was just talking to a friend in Allston last night about coming out to visit. Want to go more than ever.
posted by smirkette at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013


Won't there be a lot of camera footage and surveillance video from that area? I'd imagine private citizens were recording the scene at the finish line and the police might also have been using video surveillance given the size and nature of the event.

I was watching one of the private citizen videos that was focusing on the center of the explosion and I just kept repeating "turn around, turn around, pan slowly across the crowd. Record faces. Please."

Still, I doubt I would have had the presence of mind to do it either.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:59 PM on April 15, 2013


BobbyVan: “New York Post: "The suspect — a Saudi national who suffered shrapnel wounds in today's blast — is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital." (WARNING: Some photos in linked story are graphic.)”

As I said above, the data in that article diverges wildly both from all official accounts and from accounts we've heard from the ground. The death count it gives, for example, is more than four times higher. I think we need to view the NYP with a good deal of skepticism here, given that all "sources" are anonymous and not cited.

Chuffy: &Ldquo;Suspect is a Saudi national...brown person confirmed.”

NOBODY HAS CONFIRMED THIS. They just had a press conference; it wasn't even mentioned. This claim should be viewed with nothing but skepticism.
posted by koeselitz at 2:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Nthing not repeating every last dribbling of the NYP.
posted by Artw at 2:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


My cousin Joe ran the race today. He finished just before the bombs went off and was safely away. So glad he thought to update his family and friends through Facebook so we weren't worried.

My thoughts go out to all affected.
posted by deborah at 2:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Stay classy, Jennifer Rubin.

And no more of this either. Why are you linking to this? To make people angry? To show that people are assholes?
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 2:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


The New York Post isn't worthy of lining my bird's cage. In fact I'd worry that she would catch something from it. If you link to them you might as well link to the Weekly World News.
posted by Splunge at 2:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Boston Police Commisioner Davis says that there was a third related explosion at the JFK Library in the just aired press conference.
posted by ericb at 2:01 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm so upset that I find " following a fast moving thread about a horrible disaster." such a familiar feeling.
posted by The Whelk at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [32 favorites]


JFK Library had confirmed bombing, according to BPD - TPM

It's just fascinating to see how stuff gets so immediately corrupted. "Being treated as a related incident" turns into "had confirmed bombing according to BPD".
posted by smackfu at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hi guys, some of us are using this for a live update. Could we keep the speculation to a minimum as a public service? Thanks.
posted by Think_Long at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


If you link to them you might as well link to the Weekly World News.

The Weekly World News would never have stooped so low.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


I'm so upset that I find " following a fast moving thread about a horrible disaster." such a familiar feeling

Amen, brother. We're getting good at this, and it's fucking heartbreaking.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


Boston PD provides two hotline numbers:

• For families of victims: call 617-635-4500

• For witnesses who may have information: 800-494 8477
posted by docjohn at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


UPDATE: Director of the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library says fire there not related to #BostonMarathon explosions.
posted by zengargoyle at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm going to start training for my next marathon TODAY. Because, FUCK THESE ASSHOLES.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [76 favorites]


"We are not certain that these incidents are related, but we are treating them as if they are," Davis said.

Essentially: "we're the cops and the same way we have to treat every suspicious package as if it is a bomb prudence dictates that we have to treat this as connected until we are shown otherwise." But that is very different, to my ears, from THIRD BOMBING. Easy, everyone. Easy.
posted by dirtdirt at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Guardian: But he says that controlled explosions have been, and may continue to be, carried out on bags and packages that fleeing spectators may have left
posted by nostrada at 2:03 PM on April 15, 2013


Cell service shut down in Boston area - NY Mag/AP
posted by Punkey at 2:04 PM on April 15, 2013


My office building is between the blasts; I don't have much to say except that things are relatively calm, aside from obviously a lot of shaken people. I think the situation is being handled well.
posted by (parenthetic me) at 2:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


But I am totally uninjured. The smoke smelled like gunpowder --- fireworks --- rather than a high-tech explosive.

Dammit. That does imply black powder -- it has a very definite smell, and fireworks use a lot of black powder. But that explosion on video looked like a full detonation. Black powder goes boom, not crack.

Friend who works at JFK Library says that it was only a fire in a mechanical room

A black powder based device that wasn't compressed would just make for a fire. I note they're saying that they're treating the incident as "related", but not saying there was a fourth explosion.
posted by eriko at 2:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Video from finish line

Sounds like a second explosion going off in the distance about 15 seconds after the first one.
posted by trueluk at 2:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


This kind of stuff makes me appreciate everyone and everything a lot more than I normally do. I love you all. We need more love in the world. I cannot comprehend the people who would plan something brutal like this. Why such hatred? I'm grateful that I will never understand it. Peace and love, to you all.
posted by newfers at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


Cell service shut down in Boston area - NY Mag/AP

Wow. Has that ever happened before in a major city?
posted by mudpuppie at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2013


Cell service shut down in Boston area - NY Mag/AP

How does this work? Do they just have a coordinated shut-down of all the area towers?
posted by Lutoslawski at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2013


Video from finish line

Incredible video, but be warned it gets graphic (lots of blood).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2013


We’ve just confirmed with the Boston Police Department that there was a third explosion this afternoon at the JFK Library in Boston. But there were reportedly no injuries from this incident.

"There was another device, confirmed at JFK," Neva Coakley, an officer in the Boston Police Department's press office, told TPM.

Coakley said that device went off at 2:55 p.m. EST, but could not provide further details.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:05 PM on April 15, 2013


Punkey: "Cell service shut down in Boston area - NY Mag/AP"

That sounds... counterproductive?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


The couple minutes I watched on the work TVs said it was a white powder bomb (and showed it) so non plastic and less lethal. Then they started to show people falling down and I couldn't watch any more.
posted by sweetkid at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2013


Note: Do *not* go out and donate blood in Boston. They have posted on Twitter that they have enough. If you want to help in that way, set a calendar reminder to go off in two weeks and donate then.

Remember: Whole blood doesn't last forever in storage. If everyone gives today, we'll have a shortage in five weeks.
posted by eriko at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [89 favorites]


I hate that I need it, but I am so grateful to have this place to come when these things happen. What sanity and comfort there is, I can get here.
posted by emjaybee at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


My husband ran the marathon today. He had finished and we were off the course and back in our hotel when we heard the explosions go off. There were clearly two explosions. We ran to the window and could see the smoke and the crowds running away. We also heard the third explosion later, which oddly, shook me up most of all. Social media and twitter helped us reach our family and friends when the cell network was overwhelmed. I'm really really sad. The Boston Marathon is so special, and the goodwill of the people and the city of Boston have been so great. I feel heartbroken.
posted by Malla at 2:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [43 favorites]


eriko: “A black powder based device that wasn't compressed would just make for a fire. I note they're saying that they're treating the incident as "related", but not saying there was a fourth explosion.”

According to the press conference a few minutes ago, there were three explosions – two on Boylston, and then the later one at JFK Library.
posted by koeselitz at 2:07 PM on April 15, 2013


That sounds... counterproductive?

Not if the devices were detonated via cell phone. I'll admit to feeling ambivalent about the state's ability to do it, but that's as good an excuse as you'll ever get.
posted by yerfatma at 2:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


The cell phone shutdown must be localized to Back Bay and the surrounding area. I'm not that far from South Station and mine still works. I've been using my office landline to call people to avoid stressing the system further, though. Just camping out here until things settle down a little bit.
posted by Kosh at 2:07 PM on April 15, 2013


Surveillance video of interest already being analyzed by BPD/authorities - CBS News
posted by Punkey at 2:08 PM on April 15, 2013


Amen, brother. We're getting good at this, and it's fucking heartbreaking.

I'm grateful on days like this for MeFi. Threads like this have become 95% level headed updates. So, thanks guys.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


From @NBCSN:
Reports of Marathon Runners that crossed finish line and continued to run to Mass General Hospital to give blood to victims
posted by fight or flight at 2:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [47 favorites]


Please keep posting about people who were involved in the marathon and are okay, like Malla did. It's good to hear.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:08 PM on April 15, 2013


Cell phone shut down is indeed to preven remote detonations.
posted by sonika at 2:09 PM on April 15, 2013


Please keep posting about people who were involved in the marathon and are okay, like Malla did. It's good to hear.

My friend's brother in law was in the race today, but finished well before the explosions and is just fine.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Cellphone service went down in New York after 9/11. I'm still not sure if it was a conscious choice by the police or just the result of 10 million people calling each other at the same moment. But either way it was extremely spooky.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:10 PM on April 15, 2013


Just to clarify - the Police Commissioner stated there were four explosions in total, though one was a controlled detonation: two on Boylston plus a controlled detonation in the same area, and then a fourth explosion at JFK library that was being treated as a related incident.
posted by Tiresias at 2:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


eriko: “Note: Do *not* go out and donate blood in Boston. They have posted on Twitter that they have enough. If you want to help in that way, set a calendar reminder to go off in two weeks and donate then.”

Do you have a source I can retweet?
posted by koeselitz at 2:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Bombs at a public event, and an incident in a mechanical room at a library don't go together very well...
posted by zengargoyle at 2:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


My internet at work in NYC is mad slow, which I attribute to the bombings just because people are no doubt trying to get on all over the area. I could be wrong. But people are frantically calling the help desk WTF.
posted by sweetkid at 2:11 PM on April 15, 2013


On the Red line home from work- trains not stopping at park street or downtown crossing.

I ran 3 Boston marathons with a large charity team. The team has an amazing, incredibly dedicated and much-loved coach who makes sure to greet every single runner from our team at the finish line. Dear god I hope he is okay.

Not 100% sure but the timing of this may have hit mostly non-qualifying charity finishers- people who raised money running in honor of relatives who have cancer and for similar causes. For them to be caught in this during what is many people's experience of a lifetime is so fucked up.
posted by ghostbikes at 2:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Bombs at a public event, and an incident in a mechanical room at a library don't go together very well...

We don't know how widespread this attack was designed to be.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013


Well, "library" in this case also includes a museum for JFK that is a pretty big tourist destination.
posted by stopgap at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013


Note: Do *not* go out and donate blood in Boston. They have posted on Twitter that they have enough. If you want to help in that way, set a calendar reminder to go off in two weeks and donate then.

This holds true for all donations. After many events such as this, while admirable, the deluge of not very usable donations can overwhelm the system to the point they cannot offer the vital services because they are dealing with those not very usable donations.

Best to wait till a call is put out from official channels. If something is needed, there will be more than enough sources for those calls. Social media pleas from un-connected sources only makes a difficult situation more demanding.
posted by lampshade at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Local radio reports the Feds are saying one or more devices recovered intact, which greatly increases the chances we're going to know who did this.
posted by jenkinsEar at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Stop hurting each other you animals.
posted by RollingGreens at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Bombs at a public event, and an incident in a mechanical room at a library don't go together very well...

3 explosions on the same day in a city that averages a steady 0 per day suggests a flaw in your logic.
posted by yerfatma at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


How does this work? Do they just have a coordinated shut-down of all the area towers?

Yes. There's also a priority system in place, a registered cellphone can dial a special string and get a priorty connection -- they may have just told the towers not to accept calls unless they're using WPS.
posted by eriko at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Red Cross Twitter feed says they have enough blood.
posted by athenasbanquet at 2:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Do you have a source I can retweet?

I just heard the same on WBUR.
posted by Miko at 2:13 PM on April 15, 2013


Reports of Marathon Runners that crossed finish line and continued to run to Mass General Hospital to give blood to victims - that's incredible! How is that even physically possible? I feel like I would pass out!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'm going to start training for my next marathon TODAY. Because FUCK THESE ASSHOLES.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:03 PM on April 15


Hell, I'm a devoted couch potato, and I'm going to take up running TODAY. Because FUCK. THEM.
posted by magstheaxe at 2:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [49 favorites]


Well, "library" in this case also includes a museum for JFK that is a pretty big tourist destination.

JFK is a big destination, probably not today with Red Sox and Marathon. Might have been chosen as much for symbolism and to create chaos.
posted by madamjujujive at 2:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Do you have a source I can retweet?

ARC has it on their twitter feed. Linking feed, rather than post.
posted by eriko at 2:15 PM on April 15, 2013


If any of you Boston-folk with cars are looking for a way to help, consider helping runners get back to their hotels. A friend of mine is walking a long way bc he'd planned on taking a cab from the finish. He was in the med tent getting rehydrated at the time of the explosion.
posted by janell at 2:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reports of Marathon Runners that crossed finish line and continued to run to Mass General Hospital to give blood to victims - that's incredible! How is that even physically possible? I feel like I would pass out!

I'm about to pass out just reading about it.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Cell service shut down in Boston area - NY Mag/AP"

That sounds... counterproductive?

Emergency services personnel register their phones beforehand. In the event of an emergency normal service is suspended so that the emergency services can be guaranteed access to the network. In the UK the system is called MTPAS.
posted by alby at 2:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


JFK Library spokespeople continue to state that fire at library was unrelated - CBS News
posted by Punkey at 2:16 PM on April 15, 2013


If any of you Boston-folk with cars are looking for a way to help, consider helping runners get back to their hotels.

I would say do that only if you are already in Boston. On the radio they are basically asking people not to flood into Boston.
posted by Miko at 2:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Glad the local (Boston) news has backed away from showing the helicopter shots of pools of blood. The moment of explosion is bad, but the alternative was downright grizzly.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:17 PM on April 15, 2013


Police have asked folks repeatedly to stay home.
posted by Apropos of Something at 2:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


So was there a fire inside the library (accidental) but a bomb outside it?
posted by emjaybee at 2:17 PM on April 15, 2013


As awful as this story is, at least this is a reminder that a few people may do some awful things, but all these images of first responders rushing to the scene, of runners who are nurses helping out, of marathon runners racing to the hospital to give blood ...

The amount of goodness, at least for the moment, overwhelms the amount of evil by an enormous margin. It's a terrible reminder of something that's worth remembering anyway -- that so many people's immediate impulse is to do good, to help, to run into the face of danger because there is someone in need.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [17 favorites]


Cell phone shut down is indeed to preven remote detonations.

Unlikely. Most cellphone-controlled bombs are set to go off in the event of a (sustained) lack of service. Far more likely to be the US equivalent of MTPAS.
posted by alby at 2:18 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm listening to the most comforting music I can think of at the moment. It's this song.
posted by orange swan at 2:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


robocop is bleeding: "Glad the local (Boston) news has backed away from showing the helicopter hots of pools of blood. The moment of explosion is bad, but the alternative was downright grizzly."

I think the only reason they've stopped is because the airspace has been closed.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 2:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Boston.com is setting up a GoogleDoc for people to share information of places where stranded runners and their families can stay.
posted by fight or flight at 2:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A grisly humor, the one time I would have liked to have checked on a safe and well list, its well past overloaded with users.
posted by Slackermagee at 2:19 PM on April 15, 2013


As a marathoner, I have been so moved by the response to this awful tragedy, and have gotten so many texts and calls from friends who wanted to make sure I wasn't running.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:19 PM on April 15, 2013


> As awful as this story is, at least this is a reminder that a few people may do some awful things, but all these images of first responders rushing to the scene, of runners who are nurses helping out, of marathon runners racing to the hospital to give blood ...

"Look for the helpers," as Mister Rogers said.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


I hear that, Miko. I'm doubtful that my friend is the only person who doesn't need a 5 mile hike after running a marathon. He's almost back now, tho, and staying home is probably a better plan in the broader view.
posted by janell at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2013


Cowboy Hat Guy is a helper--I've seen him in two different shots. Good going, Cowboy Hat Guy.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [21 favorites]


BPD officially knocks down NY Post Saudi national story - TPM
posted by Punkey at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


Logan: FAA has announced ground stop.
posted by RakDaddy at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2013


Brigham and Women's is also saying they'll need blood donors in the future, not right now.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:22 PM on April 15, 2013


Weird, I just heard a radio update that Logan was open.
posted by Miko at 2:22 PM on April 15, 2013


This is horrible. My heart goes out to the victims and their family and friends.
posted by caddis at 2:22 PM on April 15, 2013


Cowboy Hat Guy is a helper--I've seen him in two different shots. Good going, Cowboy Hat Guy.

He's also pretty prominent in one of the videos, go Cowboy Hat Guy go!
posted by tetsuo at 2:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Runners are a strange and beautiful breed. We love each other. We help each other. We worry for each other. You're already hearing some inspiring stories about runners helping others. Keep that thought with you. There will be a lot of good that comes out at the end of this as we move forward into the next couple of days.
posted by Fizz at 2:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Last of my girlfriend's runner friends/volunteers checked in okay about 2 minutes ago (we were worried because we still hadn't heard when the cell shutdown happened). Looks like everyone I know made it okay.

For whatever it's worth - I was hitting up pretty much every source I could find and this thread was by far the best source of links/info out there. Thanks, Metafilter.
posted by Ryvar at 2:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


The JFK library explosion doesn't make sense to me- the two bombs that went off were evidently well placed to cause casualties. Putting a bomb in the mechanical room doesn't make sense.
posted by gsteff at 2:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


BPD officially knocks down NY Post Saudi national story - TPM.

Pathetic. Yet another reason to be careful about our sources of information and what we choose to amplify at a time like this.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 2:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Emergency services personnel register their phones beforehand. In the event of an emergency normal service is suspended so that the emergency services can be guaranteed access to the network. In the UK the system is called MTPAS.

As an interesting sideline to the horror: There is an precedent for this going back to landline days. My dad was in a central office when JFK was assassinated and he heard the switches going crazy. He said it was like nothing they had ever seen and they were close flipping a switch that would have turned off phone service to the general public so service could be guaranteed for police, hospitals, firefighters, etc. If I recall correctly he said there was another tier above that just for the military at the time.
posted by entropicamericana at 2:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


ON WBUR a reporter at the JFK library is saying that authorities there are saying the JFK library thing was an electrical fire, not a bomb.
posted by Miko at 2:24 PM on April 15, 2013


Ground stop at Logan was just lifted by the FAA.
posted by zachlipton at 2:24 PM on April 15, 2013


RT @boston_police: Update JFK incident appears to be fire related #tweetfromthebeat via @CherylFiandaca

Katie Johnston @ktkjohnston
FAA just lifted temporary ground stop at Logan Airport. Put in place to reconfigure the runways to keep aircraft from flying over Copley.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:24 PM on April 15, 2013


BPD officially knocks down NY Post Saudi national story - TPM.

To be accurate, they're saying they haven't arrested anyone; and they're saying the NYP's information "didn't come from us". Shrug.
posted by mrnutty at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


And for some feel-good in the middle of the updates:

Image of couple reunited after being separated by bombing
posted by Punkey at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Can we please get the speculating maroons off of CNN/MSNBC/Faux News please?

But all we have is speculation! We must talk about something! News is breaking, and if we're not on air all the time, some other station might get the jump on us! And if we're on all the time, we have to be talking all the time! About this late-breaking news! Which we know little about!
posted by filthy light thief at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


The JFK story is showing every sign of "early reports said that....". Given that no one was hurt I would strongly urge people to let it go until tomorrow when reports will have settled down.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013


Baggage update:

For runners looking to claim their bags - baggage claim is now open on Berkeley Street between Boylston Street and St. James Avenue. All unclaimed bags will remain secure. Stay posted for further details. Thank you for your patience.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is it not Patriots Day in Boston?
McVeigh/Nichols/Fortier chose April 19 to bomb OKC because it jibed with their super-patriot fantasies of Lexington/Concord, which Patriot's Day commemorates.
posted by robbyrobs at 2:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The JFK library explosion doesn't make sense to me- the two bombs that went off were evidently well placed to cause casualties. Putting a bomb in the mechanical room doesn't make sense.

There's no confirmed "explosion" at the JFK Library, just an "incident" that the Library said was a fire.
posted by stopgap at 2:26 PM on April 15, 2013


Well, "library" in this case also includes a museum for JFK that is a pretty big tourist destination.

And the "Library" part is a branch of the federal government's National Archives and Records Administration. (Though it seems it's not related to the attack at the Marathon?)
posted by Jahaza at 2:26 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston Police is stating JFK was a "fire incident", so apologies to zengargoyle.
posted by yerfatma at 2:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Runners are a strange and beautiful breed. We love each other. We help each other. We worry for each other.

Yes. Runners are awesome. They are some of the kindest people. Seeing the image of the young man with his legs severed -- obviously it's a tragedy for so many reasons, but all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again. I can't imagine. It really tears me up.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Steve Silva is the Boston.com sports producer who shot this video, which means, he ran towards the explosion.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


My 16 year old girl just came in and asked me if I'd seen the news. She's been following it on facebook.

She's been running cross-country on her school team the past couple of years. She runs practically every day. I envy her discipline and stamina and commitment to doing something healthy. And I'm almost in tears because in an alternate timeline the Boston Marathon is something she would have wanted to participate in and her Mom and I would have done everything to make that happen.

I asked her if she remembered the Olympic bombing in Atlanta. She didn't. I looked it up. It happened before she was born, of course. Who can keep track?

We talked a little about 9/11 and how no one knew what was going on at first. So far we've seen reports of two people dead. Three people dead. Two bombs. Three bombs. More bombs. She wants to know what's going on and I don't have anything more to tell her than "It's just awful and no one will really know anything for awhile". Which she already knows.

I'm an atheist. I'm praying. I don't believe anyone hears it. But there isn't really anything else I can do.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [29 favorites]


NY Post being inaccurate and fear-mongering? This is my surprised face. Not that it didn't sound pretty unlikely on the face of it; the bombs went off close together, which suggests no premature detonation. Which makes it unlikely that the bomber would have been standing close enough to get shrapnel'd into the hospital.
posted by tavella at 2:27 PM on April 15, 2013


To be accurate, they're saying they haven't arrested anyone; and they're saying the NYP's information "didn't come from us". Shrug.

True dat. Duly noted.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 2:27 PM on April 15, 2013


all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again. I can't imagine. It really tears me up.

Or he might become a cyborg super runner.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again

The good thing is that even without legs, this is not necessarily true nowadays.

Living in the future is a mixed bag, I guess.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Obama being briefed by FBI Director Muller on bombings in Boston - WH Flickr
posted by Punkey at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, fuck. One of my staff saw both both explosions while waiting for her dad to finish the marathon.

Never been so happy to be in a position of authority to say TAKE AS MUCH TIME OFF AS YOU NEED.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [130 favorites]


Miko: "We've gotten so great at autopiloting grief when it's mass murder time."

Sometimes I feel that the movie Brazil really was prescient.
posted by Red Loop at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [17 favorites]


Seeing the image of the young man with his legs severed -- obviously it's a tragedy for so many reasons, but all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again. I can't imagine. It really tears me up.

Don't discount the availability of great prosthetic. Science and medicine can help him overcome this tragedy.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


...but all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again.

While it is indeed a tragedy, the awful truth is that we've gotten really good at making prosthetics for the maimed soliders in Iraq and Afghanistan. He'll never be the same, but he might still run again.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Seeing the image of the young man with his legs severed -- obviously it's a tragedy for so many reasons, but all I keep thinking about is that he'll never be able to run again.

I hope he and the other injured runners have all the support and medical care they need to run again, and to race again, whether it's biking or on Cheetah supports or whatever the future invents.
posted by jetlagaddict at 2:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


If you're trying to figure out how to get somewhere, @MassDOT has been tweeting updates on the T and the roads.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:29 PM on April 15, 2013


Weird, I just heard a radio update that Logan was open.

It is. KBOS was ground stopped at 2027Z, and that ground stop was cancelled at 2114Z.

A ground stop means "do not take off for this airport if you are still on the ground." Planes already in the air would have continued, held or diverted. This particular one was for the east coast, namely airports in the areas controlled by the Air Route Traffic Control Centers for ZOB (Cleveland), ZNY (New York), ZBW (Boston) and ZDC (DC) and the four eastern Canada ones.
posted by eriko at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Don't discount the availability of great prosthetic.

Indeed! The Biomechatronics group at the MIT Media Lab is working on that.
posted by smirkette at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston hospitals are now reporting 100 wounded, according to the Boston Globe.
posted by nostrada at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Yes, you're all right. I would love to see that -- equipped with prosthetics, he runs again. Perhaps even a marathon. Hopefully his life was spared and he is able to do just that.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Steve Silva is the Boston.com sports producer who shot this video, which means, he ran towards the explosion.
posted by Ideefixe at 2:26 PM on 4/15
[1 favorite +] [!]


I noticed that. How?
posted by bq at 2:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Google Person Finder - Boston Marathon explosions
posted by SassHat at 2:31 PM on April 15, 2013


Video of runner using current generation running prosthetic.
posted by Jilder at 2:32 PM on April 15, 2013


I don't think that guy who had his legs severed was a runner... He was in long-sleeves and didn't sport a marathon number.
posted by docjohn at 2:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


NBUR reports that those in critical condition are unidentified....at Mass General.
posted by zerobyproxy at 2:32 PM on April 15, 2013


Never been so happy to be in a position of authority to say TAKE AS MUCH TIME OFF AS YOU NEED.

Have as many favorites as you need. Have a million favorites. You are good people.
posted by Artw at 2:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


NBC News: Officials say that Boston PD are "guarding" a wounded man at a Boston hospital as a "possible suspect" - @JimMiklaszewski
posted by BobbyVan at 2:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


WBUR pointed out a while ago that, if we're looking for silver linings, this happened within a three-mile radius of half a dozen of the best trauma hospitals in the United States. I wish all those working at those hospitals the very best, because I know they're doing awesome work right now.
posted by koeselitz at 2:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [35 favorites]


I'm curious in the wake of this stupid, senseless, horrifying event: Aren't bombs old tech? I can only think there must be a lot more science to making them than the "people" who build the homemade-variety consider, as a lot of them seem to fail to go off, or go off with a fraction of the power that was theoretically possible. I'm glad for that, as much as you can be glad about something horrible, but it's always a puzzler.
posted by maxwelton at 2:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Old tech is cheap and easily deployed.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some speculation about the government's ability to shut off cell service.
posted by yerfatma at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Aren't bombs old tech?

Sure, but chemistry is hard. Technology is hard. Ever try to build a steam engine?
posted by IvoShandor at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]


I don't think that guy who had his legs severed was a runner... He was in long-sleeves and didn't sport a marathon number.
posted by docjohn at 5:32 PM on April 15 [+] [!]

Agreed. And not to be too presumptuous, but video of the explosion suggests that the blast impact (at least the one visible near the finish line) impacted the spectators. Runners who were level with the site of the explosion on the street appeared (relatively) unscathed, and many continued running.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Looks like they're making arrests. Can anyone confirm?
posted by joedan at 2:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Ideefixe: Steve Silva is the Boston.com sports producer who shot this video, which means, he ran towards the explosion.
Christ… and then the balloons float away
posted by ob1quixote at 2:38 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm curious in the wake of this stupid, senseless, horrifying event: Aren't bombs old tech? I can only think there must be a lot more science to making them than the "people" who build the homemade-variety consider, as a lot of them seem to fail to go off, or go off with a fraction of the power that was theoretically possible.

I am guessing that the people with the skills to pull off something higher tech are more educated and easily employed. Not your typical frustrated and powerless type that seem to be drawn toward senseless acts of violence to make their point.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 2:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


joedan - That could be an arrest for any number of reasons, the bombing is only one of them.
posted by Punkey at 2:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Has the place to offer your house to a runner been set up yet?
posted by Cygnet at 2:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think that guy who had his legs severed was a runner... He was in long-sleeves and didn't sport a marathon number.

Okay, well, I still hope he has all his medical needs taken care of and is able to be mobile in all of his life's pursuits, whether that's running or video games or whatever. Basically, I hope they're all as okay as they can be, all of those 64 people, all of those spectators and runners and first responders.
posted by jetlagaddict at 2:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Wouldn't a runner who finished the race remove his bib and become a spectator? I suppose you're right, though -- there's no way to tell if he was a runner. He just looked like a runner to me, I guess. Anyway, this is all a bit of a derail. Just really hoping that that guy makes it through.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]



Sometimes I feel that the movie Brazil really was prescient.

Sometimes?

To greater or lesser degrees I've thought this since about 2002
posted by edgeways at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


BPD now tweeting that the JFK Library event may be an unrelated fire after all.
posted by tau_ceti at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Christ… and then the balloons float away

I haven't even watched this particular video, but when I read these words it reminded me that I made a mental note of that in another video but didn't process it. Now I think I know why. Ugh.
posted by Big_B at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013


There are too many rumors right now to know anything. This doesn't seem to be like 9-11 where there was consensus very quickly that it was Al Qaeda.
posted by humanfont at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Aren't bombs old tech?

Sure, but chemistry is hard. Technology is hard. Ever try to build a steam engine?

There's an awful lot of bomb makers with hooks for hands.
posted by Artw at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


As do we all. We all hope everyone comes through this okay...
posted by docjohn at 2:40 PM on April 15, 2013


No offense, but whether he raced or not, let's let it go: it's a guy who lost his legs and not for any good reason and that sucks.
posted by yerfatma at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


OBAMA TO ADDRESS NATION IN 15 MINUTES - NY Mag
posted by Punkey at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Aren't bombs old tech?

Yes, but big bangs and smoke create a sense of terror and danger. And most often that is the point of the attack, not the the actual damage. Plus, having the news media replaying the event and subsequent panic in the streets over and over, only enhances the effect.

Mission accomplished (for the terrorists) unfortunately.

Best advice: turn off the TV.
posted by lampshade at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Video of runner using current generation running prosthetic. yt

And for those who both run and swim, there's an amphibious prosthetic.
posted by homunculus at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013


I can only think there must be a lot more science to making them than the "people" who build the homemade-variety consider,

Essentially, making newer better explosives requires industrial chemistry skills and labs, and making old style explosves (black power / dynamite) is fiddly and inconsistent.
posted by smackfu at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013


It's a long thread, so just in case anyone missed it and might need it: Reunite with missing family members at 1-617-635-4500.
posted by trip and a half at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013


*************

NEED A PLACE TO GO, HAVE A PLACE FOLKS CAN STAY? Google Spreadsheet from the Globe

*************
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


As an interesting sideline to the horror: There is an precedent for this going back to landline days. My dad was in a central office when JFK was assassinated and he heard the switches going crazy. He said it was like nothing they had ever seen and they were close flipping a switch that would have turned off phone service to the general public so service could be guaranteed for police, hospitals, firefighters, etc. If I recall correctly he said there was another tier above that just for the military at the time.

Is it just emergency workers, or would other people at sufficiently high echelons be exempt from mobile phone shutdowns? Would the President be on the list? Congressmen? Could the wealthy and well-connected buy their way onto the list the way rich Russians can obtain migalki that exempt them from road laws?
posted by acb at 2:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Ah, here we go: here's where you post a place to stay
posted by Cygnet at 2:42 PM on April 15, 2013


Looks like they're making arrests. Can anyone confirm?

Could be anything. In an emergency, cops are gonna crack down on all sorts of behavior.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:42 PM on April 15, 2013


The spreadsheets to either ask for or offer accommodations in Boston are now live. The Globe has been super on this.
posted by Phire at 2:42 PM on April 15, 2013


XMLicious, I think you have it backwards.

Oops, yeah, you're right. The quotes from Ayers and material in the Wikipedia article indicate that other nail bomb attacks were carried out before the Greenwich explosion, not afterwards. Sorry about that.

In any case, the significance of shrapnel bombs is that they indicate the definite intention to kill and injure people instead of just damaging property and I think that's why lots of people know about them.
posted by XMLicious at 2:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


How does this work? Do they just have a coordinated shut-down of all the area towers?

Cell service has gone down because of the way cellular telephones work. Each tower can handle X number of calls at once. In areas where lots of people live they make the cells smaller and put the towers closer together. It's all about statistics. Under normal circumstances an average of Y people in the area covered by a tower will be making calls simultaneously and X>Y. When everybody tries to make a call at once the system is completely overloaded Y is much bigger than X and most people cannot get through.

If in the Boston area, stay off your cell phone if possible.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Cell phone service is overwhelmed, not shut off.
posted by yerfatma at 2:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow: "Cell service has gone down because of the way cellular telephones work. Each tower can handle X number of calls at once. In areas where lots of people live they make the cells smaller and put the towers closer together. It's all about statistics. Under normal circumstances an average of Y people in the area covered by a tower will be making calls simultaneously and X>Y. When everybody tries to make a call at once the system is completely overloaded Y is much bigger than X and most people cannot get through.”

Uh – so you are claiming that the "official" reports that cell service had been intentionally suspended to prevent remote detonations was wrong?
posted by koeselitz at 2:45 PM on April 15, 2013


‏@AdamSerwer: No confirmation from govt officials that cell phone service in Boston area has actually been shut down, according to NBC News.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I love Patton Oswalt.
I remember, when 9/11 went down, my reaction was, "Well, I've had it with humanity."

But I was wrong. I don't know what's going to be revealed to be behind all of this mayhem. One human insect or a poisonous mass of broken sociopaths.

But here's what I DO know. If it's one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. (Thanks FAKE Gallery founder and owner Paul Kozlowski for pointing this out to me). This is a giant planet and we're lucky to live on it but there are prices and penalties incurred for the daily miracle of existence. One of them is, every once in awhile, the wiring of a tiny sliver of the species gets snarled and they're pointed towards darkness.

But the vast majority stands against that darkness and, like white blood cells attacking a virus, they dilute and weaken and eventually wash away the evil doers and, more importantly, the damage they wreak. This is beyond religion or creed or nation. We would not be here if humanity were inherently evil. We'd have eaten ourselves alive long ago.

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, "The good outnumber you, and we always will."
posted by shiu mai baby at 2:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [152 favorites]


I'm seeing some activity on twitter about there being a police presence in Times Square. Does anybody know whether that is just a precaution?
posted by gauche at 2:46 PM on April 15, 2013


Can we just wait until someone is formally charged and the facts are in? Many here are too young to remember, I know, but if so you should read up on Richard Jewell and the 1996 Centennial Park bombing during the Olympics in Atlanta. There's no excusing speculation among those who remember this.
posted by raysmj at 2:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [38 favorites]


WNYC 93.9 FM in NYC is simulcasting WBUR out of Boston.

All the hospitals in Boston are reportedly locked down.

Lots of events are canceled. "Officials" are saying to stay home and avoid large crowds in Boston.
posted by Jahaza at 2:47 PM on April 15, 2013


I don't think THAT many people are too young to remember 1996.
posted by sweetkid at 2:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


gauche - I don't know specifically but there are always a ton of cops in Times Square because it's so crowded with tourists. I'm sure they're stepping up manpower just as a precaution.
posted by Wretch729 at 2:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


It warms my heart to see the HUNDREDS of people posting apartments in the last 5 minutes.
posted by Cygnet at 2:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Well.. there's usually police presence in Times Square.
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 2:48 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm seeing some activity on twitter about there being a police presence in Times Square. Does anybody know whether that is just a precaution?

There's almost always a large police presence there, but the NYPD regularly ups security after incidents like this.
posted by Jahaza at 2:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Im at 34th and 6th/Broadway in NYC and I can hear helicopters close.
posted by sweetkid at 2:49 PM on April 15, 2013


lampshade: Best advice: turn off the TV.

This is my general best advice for just about every situation.
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [22 favorites]


President Obama to speak live at 6 PM (WBUR).

Boston Mayor Tom Menino to also speak live (having left his hospital bed, he's been ill.)
posted by Jahaza at 2:50 PM on April 15, 2013


gauche - I don't know specifically but there are always a ton of cops in Times Square because it's so crowded with tourists. I'm sure they're stepping up manpower just as a precaution.


Thanks, that's what I meant. Having trouble framing my thoughts right now.
posted by gauche at 2:50 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, I'm in midtown on 7th Ave, and I can confirm that there's an increased police/helicopter presence, but no reason to believe it's anything but a precaution. They always do that when something like this happens.
posted by Ragged Richard at 2:50 PM on April 15, 2013


From NYPD FB page:

"The NYPD is stepping up security at hotels and other prominent locations in the city through deployment of critical response vehicles (CRVs) until more about the explosion in Boston is learned."
posted by Wretch729 at 2:50 PM on April 15, 2013


@sweetkid: people born after the '96 olympics can obtain driver's licenses. In fact, people who can legally drink may not have memories that go back that far.
posted by sideshow at 2:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


entropicamericana: He said it was like nothing they had ever seen and they were close flipping a switch that would have turned off phone service to the general public so service could be guaranteed for police, hospitals, firefighters, etc. If I recall correctly he said there was another tier above that just for the military at the time.

I'm not very familiar with the public telephone network's emergency/overload management plans in the early 1960s, but the military tier he was talking about was almost certainly AUTOVON, which was a separate telephone network for use only by the military which came online in 1963. It was designed to survive nuclear attacks, and one of its key features was the ability of a "high precedence" (priority) call to disconnect other calls that were already in progress in the event that all remaining circuits were busy.

As a side note, entropicamericana, do you happen to know whether the central office your dad was at was a local (class 5) end office, or a tandem office? I *think* that emergency/overload management in the early 60s was only available at the tandem level, but I am not at all sure of that...
posted by Juffo-Wup at 2:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


the cell phones shut down was to make it impossible for more bombs to be detonated by cell phones..in Afghanistan, we use jammers
posted by Postroad at 2:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Reuters live feed is saying that yes, Times Square police presence is just a precaution.
posted by clockbound at 2:51 PM on April 15, 2013


WBUR broadcasting from Brigham and Womens. Doctor says 26 patients transported to that hospital. (One a three-year-old who was transferred to Children's Hospital.) SWAT team outside Brigham and Womens. Injuries of a variety of severity up to very substantial and "really signifigant" burns. Doctor: "I've never seen anything like this ever before."
posted by Jahaza at 2:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


They're talking to a doctor at one of the hospitals on WBUR right now. They asked him about the lockdown – "oh, we ALWAYS do that here, even in drills." They asked him about the supposed suspect – "I don't know anything about that, we're just treating patients."

So the lockdown itself doesn't seem extraordinary, considering the circumstances.
posted by koeselitz at 2:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can we just wait until someone is formally charged and the facts are in? Many here are too young to remember, I know, but if so you should read up on Richard Jewell and the 1996 Centennial Park bombing during the Olympics in Atlanta. There's no excusing speculation among those who remember this.
posted by raysmj at 5:46 PM on April 15 [3 favorites +] [!]

It's not our job to refrain from discussing things that are posted in the media. We're not the gatekeepers -- there's nothing wrong with commenting on what has been reported. Whether it's true or not will ultimately be established. I do agree that just because a person is reported to have been involved, or is arrested, or considered a suspect, that doesn't mean they're responsible. But I don't feel an obligation to "wait until all the facts are in" to consider possibilities and to know what is being reported.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


It's what's called an NYPD "Surge" drill and it's extremely common.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:53 PM on April 15, 2013


@sweetkid: people born after the '96 olympics can obtain driver's licenses. In fact, people who can legally drink may not have memories that go back that far.

Yes, but on Metafilter specifically. In thread specifically. Anyway, it's unimportant: '96 Olympics is indeed an excellent lesson in not speculating.
posted by sweetkid at 2:53 PM on April 15, 2013


I just crossed Times Square on my way to Bryant Park. Yes, lots of additional police, but seemingly just a precaution. Nothing else unusual except for the choppers.
posted by kimdog at 2:53 PM on April 15, 2013


The closed portions of the subway were just reopened, so, they must be pretty confident that the area is clear.
posted by Kosh at 2:54 PM on April 15, 2013


I'll tell you what: yesterday was the wrong day for me to start following @YesYoureRacist on Twitter.
posted by yerfatma at 2:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out.

As President Bartlet once put it (after a fictional attack involving two pipe bombs at a college sporting event no less), and later plagiarized by NBC in a Kentucky Derby feature:
"When, after having heard the explosion from their practice facility, they ran into the fire to help get people out. Ran in to the fire. The streets of heaven are too crowded with angels tonight. They’re our students and our teachers and our parents and our friends. The streets of heaven are too crowded with angels, but every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we’re reminded that that capacity may well be limitless. This is a time for American heroes. We will do what is hard. We will achieve what is great. This is a time for American heroes and we reach for the stars."
posted by zachlipton at 2:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


@Kosh do you mean portions of the NY subway had been closed, or are you referring to the Boston T?
posted by telegraph at 2:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Live feed for Obama remarks?
posted by sonika at 2:55 PM on April 15, 2013


Aren't bombs old tech?

I am actually kind of surprised that we haven't seen lots of cases of bombs being delivered by quadcopters and other remote-controlled robots. I would think it's a much more effective way of carrying out an attack and safer for the attacker.

It's one reason that I find ludicrous the rationale of some pro-gun advocates and preppers that they must be allowed to stockpile firearms to be able to defend themselves in collapse-of-society situations; I would expect an inventive teenager with a toy to be able to overcome any such arsenal with ease. (And also, while I'm totally supportive of gun control efforts, it kind of seems like we might be fighting the last war there and the 21st century will see a whole new array of weapons to allow the average person to kill easily.)
posted by XMLicious at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Re the above questions about who can get WPS access that lets you get priority access to wireless resources (and WPS usually goes hand-in-hand with GETS, the same sort of system but for landline prioritization): that's handled by each organization's WPS/GETS contact person. Basically a sheriff's office or fire department or whoever goes to the OEC and applies for organizational access. If that's granted, they can then request WPS access for any of their users as well as GETS PINs. I strongly suspect that the OEC would come down on you like a ton of bricks if they found you were requesting WPS authorization for your mom or drinking buddy (unless that person worked for your fire department, of course).
posted by introp at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2013


telegraph: "@Kosh do you mean portions of the NY subway had been closed, or are you referring to the Boston T?"

The T, per the MBTA's twitter account.
posted by dismas at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2013


No secondary devices, it looks like. Thank God. Nothing is more than terror-inducing to me than when rescuers become victims. I don't know if it's significant, but the third week in April is also a time associated with a serious streak of arsons.
posted by WidgetAlley at 2:56 PM on April 15, 2013


MBTA Twitter feed: resuming service on all lines, please expect some residual delays
posted by koeselitz at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Jesus. I was near Back Bay station when I heard the explosions. Home now and I am okay, but if you know any stranded runners, Somerville residents have spare beds, via wickedlocal.com.
posted by angels in the architecture at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


(If you're still using the tumblr version of MeFi from a couple weeks ago the image caption is "LESS GRAR"!)

My sister in Massachusetts is running her first marathon later this month. I commented on FB that I'm glad you can't run Boston as your first. Her husband responded that she was considering running Boston this year and that she would have finished about this time and that he would have been at the finish line with their two kids. I don't even.
posted by bendy at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's not our job to refrain from discussing things that are posted in the media. We're not the gatekeepers

I'm sympathetic to your message, but yes and no, really. There's a reason a majority of Americans still think there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and it's that early stories were believed and endlessly repeated. Now that we're part of the "Endlessly repeated" cycle, there are things we can do to avoid contributing to any traction that false information gets.

I was somewhat close to events in 9/11 and am still appalled remembering the utter falsities I heard, believed, and passed on in the earliest days. Lots of people did. It was ultimately harmful in contributing to xenophobia and paranoia, the culture of fear.

That is different from speculation. Speculation, I think, is reasonable. I just want to speak up against passing on unverified information.
posted by Miko at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [38 favorites]


Live feed for Obama remarks?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live
posted by zombieflanders at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm still not sure whether the combination of this and the 2007 Boston bomb scare makes Boston PD prescient or doubly incompetent.
posted by GuyZero at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


As a grieving Bostonian can I please respectfully request that now is not the fucking time to talk about gun control? THNX.
posted by sonika at 2:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


Way up in this thread several people mentioned what looked like an older man falling as the explosion went off...they keep replaying that clip on abc. It looks like the ground shook underneath him.
posted by double bubble at 2:58 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston Marathon: All My Tears, All My Love.


Five miles into the race, one of the marathon directors actually jumped off a truck to forcibly remove Switzer from the course, yelling: “Get the hell out of my race!” But the men running with her fought him off. For them, Katherine Switzer had every right to be there. For them, the Boston Marathon wasnʼt about exclusion or proving male supremacy – pitting boys against girls. It was about people running a race.
posted by latkes at 2:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


magstheaxe: " Hell, I'm a devoted couch potato, and I'm going to take up running TODAY. Because FUCK. THEM."

I feel like the only proper response to this is to make next year's Boston Marathon the biggest ever. Fuck terrorism.
posted by graventy at 2:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [24 favorites]


BPD Commissioner now stating JFK Library device statement might have been "premature" - NBC News
posted by Punkey at 2:58 PM on April 15, 2013


NY Times seems to have lifted their paywall.
posted by Jahaza at 2:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm just on the ferry, on my way back home from an eight-day internet, phone and news break on Vancouver Island. This is the first thread I saw on my first Mefi checkin. I think I'm going to turn around and go right back again.
posted by jokeefe at 3:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [33 favorites]


BPD Commissioner stating no suspects in custody - NBC News
posted by Punkey at 3:00 PM on April 15, 2013


Very sorry to hear about this. Definitely a good idea to keep a tight hold on speculation for the next day or two.
posted by knapah at 3:00 PM on April 15, 2013


Live feed saying Obama's statement expected at 6.10pm Eastern
posted by TwoWordReview at 3:00 PM on April 15, 2013


BPD just confirmed in press conference that no one is currently in custody, although people are being questioned.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 3:01 PM on April 15, 2013


NBCNews.com "There is no suspect in custody." -Edward Davis, Boston Police Commissioner
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


BPD Commissioner stating no suspects in custody - NBC News

But also saying that they're "questioning" people. They may not even be sure if they've got someone being questioned who could be a suspect.
posted by Jahaza at 3:01 PM on April 15, 2013


I feel like the only proper response to this is to make next year's Boston Marathon the biggest ever. Fuck terrorism.

I'm already planning on showing up on time for next year's and yelling myself hoarse.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The BPD Commissioner's precise words were: "There's a heavy police presence at all the hospitals. You shouldn't read anything into that."
posted by koeselitz at 3:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


White House live feed for upcoming conference
posted by Punkey at 3:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I really don't want to imagine a future in which all of April is under lockdown.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


acb: Is it just emergency workers, or would other people at sufficiently high echelons be exempt from mobile phone shutdowns? Would the President be on the list? Congressmen? Could the wealthy and well-connected buy their way onto the list the way rich Russians can obtain migalki that exempt them from road laws?

It all works very differently now than it did in the 60s and 70s. As alby alluded to, the best way to "shut down service" so as to prevent bombs from being detonated is by a system called ACCOLC. (Despite the UK focus of the Wikipedia article, ACCOLC is in use in the US too, and not just on GSM networks.)

ACCOLC is really designed to manage network congestion during times of very high traffic, and not as a government-specific tool. The current USA-based government-specific tool for providing priority on cell phones is called WPS, and its landline counterpart is called GETS.

On the topic of who gets a high priority in ACCOLC or access to WPS or GETS: The membership lists for WPS and GETS are entirely up to the government. ACCOLC cell-site settings and privileged phone/SIM allocations are up to the telephone companies, but they have a long historical record of doing whatever the government tells them to do.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 3:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


As a side note, entropicamericana, do you happen to know whether the central office your dad was at was a local (class 5) end office, or a tandem office? I *think* that emergency/overload management in the early 60s was only available at the tandem level, but I am not at all sure of that...

I don't. I could (and should) ask my mother where he was working out of the time. He was L.A. area and worked out of several offices before we moved north. I think at the time he was in East L.A.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:04 PM on April 15, 2013


I feel like the only proper response to this is to make next year's Boston Marathon the biggest ever. Fuck terrorism.

I seriously wouldn't be surprised if this event overall improved the health of Bostonians by inspiring the entire city to run in next year's marathon.
posted by gsteff at 3:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


For the speculation about the electrical fire and the bombings being linked, I will say again that during a crisis with media determined to scoop everyone by reporting every alarmist thought they have, wires get crossed and speculations gain the solidity of fact in seconds. On September 11, 2001, as office buildings across the continent were being emptied, Toronto media were briefly focused on what turned out to be a broken steam pipe in the underground parking at City Hall -- the clouds of steam (looked like smoke) pouring out of the ventilation ducts made great B-roll for alarmist voiceovers.

After a thousand lame variations and viral memes, it might be time to heed the advice to KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


side note, but you can't just run the Boston Marathon. You have to qualify in separate qualifying races.

I wouldn't want them to change that for this reason. so no everyone in Boston can't run it.
posted by sweetkid at 3:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Folks this thread is shaping up to be very long, please link when possible instead of megaquoting
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I feel that the movie Brazil really was prescient.

The interesting thing about Brazil is that the 'terrorist' explosions may simply be the large super-structure of the mechanized city breaking down. Lowry's apartment going haywire at the start of the film is an example. Of course, the suspected 'terrorist' who causes all of the problems in the first place is a renegade repair-man, who left because he was sick of the paperwork of the super-structure. The viewer is left to ask, is there actually a terrorist at all, or is it just the system breaking down under its own weight? The state's reaction to 'terrorism' may be making hay of the situation, or a completely irrational response to the wrong problem, or a combination of the two that leads to Lowry getting his brain sucked out of his nose.

The state in Brazil creates a terrorist where it needs to, and in response creates terrorists it never intends to (the character of Jill, who is indeed using terror to take on the system).

This prefigures Baudrillard's writings in The Spirit of Terrorism:

This is the spirit of terrorism.

Never is it to attack the system through power relations. This belongs to the revolutionary imaginary imposed by the system itself, which survives by ceaselessly bringing those who oppose it to fight in the domain of the real, which is always its own. But (it) moves the fight into the symbolic domain, where the rule is the rule of challenge, of reversal, of escalation. Thus, death can be answered only though an equal or superior death. (Terrorism) challenges the system by a gift that the latter can reciprocate only through its own death and its own collapse.
This applies to both foreign and domestic terrorism in my opinion. In responding to terror with terror it becomes the language of the age, and for the sort of perpetual economic loser (whether he's from a bombed out village in Afghanistan or a gutted town in Kansas) who sees no other legitimate response to his status as a loser it becomes the one way out in a totality of powers that are greater than he. The cowardly act of killing the innocent and unaware makes sense when that is the method being employed by your enemy.

I hope that whoever the perpetrator is, America has learned its lesson from 12 years ago, and approaches its desire for retaliation in a more reasoned way.
posted by codacorolla at 3:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


We're not the gatekeepers

I'd have to mildly disagree with that. We are certainly in an age where news gathering and reporting is a much more democratic process. We ARE much more gatekeepers of ourselves then we have ever been, born out of distrust of the media and such a wide net of 'citizen reporters' blog owners and the near requirement we all have insta opinions on everything no matter how far from our areas of knowledge they may be.

So, yeah, we certainly are not the -sole- gatekeepers, but we are also not passive consumers of media as well.
posted by edgeways at 3:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Fred Roger's Advice on Tragic events in the News is particularly good for those with children but also totally valid for adults
posted by Blasdelb at 3:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Oh no, how sad--that must have been so frightening on what is supposed to be a happy day. I hope there are some answers soon.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 3:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reposting link to White House statement starting NOW
posted by Punkey at 3:10 PM on April 15, 2013


"On days like this there are no Republicans or Democrats – we are Americans, united in concern for our fellow citizens."
posted by zombieflanders at 3:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I feel like the only proper response to this is to make next year's Boston Marathon the biggest ever. Fuck terrorism.

Right on, brother.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 3:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Elly Vortex: "lampshade: Best advice: turn off the TV.

This is my general best advice for just about every situation."

But...but...I use my TV as a monitor, and I ever so treasure the Blue during times of crisis like this...
posted by Samizdata at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Obama conference is now over after a handful of minutes.
posted by Yowser at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013


I don't know what I was expecting from Obama, but I don't feel any better. Is this what growing up feels like?
posted by Strass at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


We will find out who did this, and we will hold them accountable.
posted by trip and a half at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sadly, presidential briefing didn't add any new information, and the President didn't take any questions. Just letting us know that the full federal government's resources are behind helping to find out who did this, and to ensure the safety of everyone in Boston this evening.
posted by docjohn at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013


thoughts from 2,500 miles away ... Vancouver (or thereabouts)

a. shock.
b. check Facebook, make sure my one Boston resident friend is okay. She is.
c. some more shock.
d. realization that I guess I officially don't hate the Bruins anymore.
e. Go Boston, Go.
posted by philip-random at 3:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


zombieflanders: ""On days like this there are no Republicans or Democrats – we are Americans, united in concern for our fellow citizens.""

To be clear, these are President Obama's words from his press briefing.
posted by boo_radley at 3:15 PM on April 15, 2013


Sadly, presidential briefing didn't add any new information, and the President didn't take any questions.

I don't think that's sad. He doesn't know anything.
posted by sweetkid at 3:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Calmly saying we don't know what's going on or blaming anybody until we have the facts. There may be no Republicans or Democrats today, but I know who I'd rather have in charge.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [37 favorites]


Disappointing statement from Obama, yeah, but I don't know what I expected him to say. Seems like this was probably the right thing to do-- make an official press statement saying "I'm on this."
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2013


Maybe he just wanted everyone to know he wasn't sitting there reading My Pet Goat while all this was going on.
posted by Big_B at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [85 favorites]


I don't know what I was expecting from Obama, but I don't feel any better. Is this what growing up feels like?

You were probably looking for reassurance from a leader figure, but Obama was all business, with little direct inspiration or comfort.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Didn't use the word terrorism though

I have an awful feeling that this is going to become a major Republican talking point.
posted by gsteff at 3:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


President really kept it short. I am glad, it would be terrible for the White House to jump the gun on information that hasn't been confirmed.
posted by annsunny at 3:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I feel like the only proper response to this is to make next year's Boston Marathon the biggest ever. Fuck terrorism.

Boston already turns away hundreds (if not thousands) of people who are fast enough to qualify. And to even qualify (sub 3:05 for men 34 and younger) is a great achievement in of itself.

I guess they could open it up to everyone next year, but part of Boston being Boston is that it's really hard to get into.
posted by sideshow at 3:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


gsteff: "I have an awful feeling that this is going to become a major Republican talking point."

Can we please not do this here and now?
posted by scrump at 3:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: "You were probably looking for reassurance from a leader figure, but Obama was all business, with little direct inspiration or comfort."

More like there's nothing that he could have said to make me feel better...
posted by Strass at 3:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


@PoliticoKevin: As a Massachusetts native, I could not give a flying fuck if Obama calls what happened today "terrorism."
posted by zombieflanders at 3:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"I have an awful feeling that this is going to become a major Republican talking point."

Eh, the fact that his occurred will be talking point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:21 PM on April 15, 2013


@EWErickson Sorry folks, I'm not interesting in beating up the President today. God bless him. He's got his work cut out for him.
Dogs, cats, mass hysteria.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


Can we please not do this here and now?

Why? The event is already being spun.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Metafilter really is a special place on the internet.
posted by Riton at 3:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


> Can we please not do this here and now?

Seconding this. We'll cross that bridge when the glass and the blood are off the ground.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


Mod note: Do not pre-doom the thread with random "I bet the people who feel other than I do will say/do $TerribleThing" comments please.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [36 favorites]


Apologies. I'm horrible at predictions anyway.
posted by gsteff at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I am glad Obama kept it short. It is a reflection of the reality that we don't know how all the pieces fit together. Acting on, or even suggesting a course of action would only further speculation and lead to more problems.

The event is most likely, completely over. Now is the time to figure out how it happened (and was not detected) in a sober and methodical manner. To do that, one needs analysis and fact. Not emotion fueled guesses peppered with calls for vengeance.
posted by lampshade at 3:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Adaptive Path built a tool a couple years ago that does geolocation with Twitter archives, so you can do stuff like look at the immediate aftermath and 30min that followed the explosions from just people that were physically near the explosion on Twitter.

It's a tool that was built for journalism, for events like this.
posted by mathowie at 3:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [53 favorites]


You know how at work you have an important report due and your boss calls to find out how it is going and that keeps you from actually getting work done, but you still have to give him an update?

We're Obamas's boss. Let him work.
posted by griphus at 3:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [62 favorites]


Cnn reports two unexploded devices recovered.
posted by vrakatar at 3:26 PM on April 15, 2013


Obama looked tired. I don't blame him.
posted by Splunge at 3:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


My cousin went to BU and graduated last year. I am so, so glad that she is back home and working because she would have been in the spectator crowd. I just home that all her younger friends who are still in college are okay.
posted by DoubleLune at 3:27 PM on April 15, 2013


This thread is so busy I just got a Jrun error...
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:28 PM on April 15, 2013


the last mile of the Boston Marathon was dedicated to the Sandy Hook victims
posted by robbyrobs at 3:28 PM on April 15, 2013


From Y! news livefeed: Matthew Keys@TheMatthewKeysCongressman Bill Keating: Two undetonated bombs found, one at hotel and another at undisclosed location - WBZ-TV

I'm not sure where Keating's getting his info, though.
posted by terrierhead at 3:28 PM on April 15, 2013


Oddly I'm getting peppered with status requests IMs like "hey, bombs in Boston. How are those bug fixes going" so in my own small way I know how Obama feels.

Yo Obama, I know you quit, but you have my permission to smoke a couple.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


> ... what looked like an older man falling as the explosion went off...they keep replaying that clip on abc. It looks like the ground shook underneath him.

That's doubtful, it wasn't that powerful a blast. No, he's hit by the shockwave in the air - you can see many of the runners put their hands to their ears as the same time as he does, and then he crumbles to the ground. Probably his balance centers were temporarily disturbed by the low-frequency sound of the blast.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hey when I was a kid in London in the 70s there were small IRA bombs like this all the time. By the 80s the bombs were getting bigger and nastier. By the 90s some bombs were big enough to demolish buildings.
posted by w0mbat at 3:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Just wanted to check in, been trying to follow the thread but also check in on the many of people I know who were right near the area. I actually found out about the incident f rom a friend who posted to FB about a minute afer it happened.

I'm OK, everyone I've been able to reach is OK.
posted by rollbiz at 3:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Re: Running marathons because "fuck that guy."

I couldn't agree more. If you are deciding to start training for a marathon, there's a ton of great resources online for how to train for one in a healthy and sane way, regardless of your current level of health. I've been training using the Galloway method (also called "the boy scout method") and, for my age and health level, its been amazing.

I've been training wearing my Newtown Turkey Trot 5K shirt but will gladly add my Red Sox hat to my training apparel now because, indeed, fuck that guy. I'm long done being afraid of these idiots with their insanity, hatred and weapons. Running a marathon for at least once in my life is going to be my little pointless symbolic action to say that I'm not afraid because - the this can't said enough- fuck that guy (whomever he may be) and fuck terrorism.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


Some of the local news is saying that they are shutting down a "15 block radius" -- is there any confirmation of that? Seems crazy, that would be a huge area for Boston. It wasn't remotely like that when I left an hour ago, was closed for maybe a 2 block radius.
posted by Perplexity at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013


Yo Obama, I know you quit, but you have my permission to smoke a couple.

And they don't even have to be tobacco. Probably better if they weren't.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Joey Michaels, ITA. I just signed up for the Dopey Challenge, which my parents are now trying to talk me out of. No way. I'm running.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Also, thanks to everyone around the world who is thinking of us Massholes today. This sucks, and we need the love.
posted by rollbiz at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


NBC News confirms one of 2 fatalities was 8 years old - NY Mag
posted by Punkey at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013


Fuck. An eight-year-old kid died.
posted by The Potate at 3:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by Morvran Avagddu at 3:34 PM on April 15, 2013


Holy shit. That poor family.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure where Keating's getting his info, though.

He's on the congressional Homeland Security Committee. Presumably this came from an official briefing.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Fuck. An eight-year-old kid died.

Shit.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Fuck.
posted by brundlefly at 3:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.

fuck.
posted by dismas at 3:35 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Wikipedia actually does quite a job of synthesising news reports about current disasters as they develop, providing a summary that's both more structured and comprehensive than most other sites.

The article on the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings already has hundreds of edits and 47 citations for particular claims.
posted by James Scott-Brown at 3:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


ugh.

.
posted by Rumple at 3:36 PM on April 15, 2013


NBC News just confirmed shrapnel was inserted into the bombs - NBC News
posted by Punkey at 3:37 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by lizjohn at 3:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Piling heartbreak on heartbreak.
posted by ambrosia at 3:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Friends who live at Newbury and Gloucester were asked to leave their apartment -- calmly, but firmly. I don't believe they've been allowed back in yet.

A coworker (who was cheering on a marathoning friend, who is safe) was at a bar on Stuart St toward the Theatre District and just reported that they were evacuated about 30 minutes ago as part of a widening security net. They are now near Downtown Crossing (near where a lot of people got stranded on the Common) at another bar and say it's very full.
posted by olinerd at 3:37 PM on April 15, 2013


A . seems so small, so insufficient for what I'm feeling right now. But words fail me, completely.

.
.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 3:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Oh, that poor baby. I hope it was over as painlessly as possible. I hope they never even heard the bang.

.
posted by Jilder at 3:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


Jesus. They killed a kid.

One dot's not enough.

.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by joedan at 3:39 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by luckynerd at 3:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Oh, I want to cry.
posted by Phire at 3:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Also, didn't see it mentioned above so for those who don't know, this is a HUGE day in the city. It's a state holiday, there's the marathon, and the Sox always play a day game at home for Patriots Day.
posted by rollbiz at 3:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Further details are coming in from multiple sources (LA Times, CBS News) regarding Saudi national story - reports stating Saudi national is NOT in custody but is being questioned, reported to be cooperative and not a suspect.
posted by Punkey at 3:41 PM on April 15, 2013


I thought I couldn't feel any worse about this.
posted by Sreiny at 3:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:42 PM on April 15, 2013


Punkey: "NBC News confirms one of 2 fatalities was 8 years old - NY Mag"

Heartbreaking. :(
posted by zarq at 3:42 PM on April 15, 2013


A few months ago, I started running after a long absence from races.

Now my goal is to qualify for Boston in two years.
posted by zippy at 3:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


400-500 stranded runners in the area of Boston College. PD is trying to locate and pick up.
posted by rollbiz at 3:43 PM on April 15, 2013


Also, didn't see it mentioned above so for those who don't know, this is a HUGE day in the city. It's a state holiday, there's the marathon, and the Sox always play a day game at home for Patriots Day.

Yeah. Normally it's my favorite day in Boston. The apple and cherry trees are just barely beginning to flower in the last day or two. Spring is beginning. It's school vacation. Boston really, really loves the marathon and it's supposed to be one of the most fun things you can do in the city.
posted by Cygnet at 3:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm in my cube at work and can't focus on anything. Ran a (very small and informal) 5K race this weekend and had so much fun, I decided to train for a half or full, and went on my first run yesterday. I guess add me to the list of people training for a marathon because FuckThatGuy.... And I'm leaving work early, cause this day is unbearable. I'm going running when I get home.
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 3:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Also, didn't see it mentioned above so for those who don't know, this is a HUGE day in the city. It's a state holiday, there's the marathon, and the Sox always play a day game at home for Patriots Day.

Yeah, it's been mentioned as timing for both motive (possibly in combination with Tax Day) and maximum casualties, possibly both.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also worth mentioning, for those who aren't familiar, is that Boston is a very small city with a teeny tiny downtown. You can easily walk from one end to another in an afternoon. A much smaller event than this can turn the whole city upside-down.

Boston MeFites, my heart is aching for all of you today. :(
posted by Narrative Priorities at 3:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by drezdn at 3:46 PM on April 15, 2013


Lord have mercy.

.
posted by pianoboy at 3:47 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 3:47 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:47 PM on April 15, 2013


8. Heartbreaking.
posted by Splunge at 3:48 PM on April 15, 2013


> Also worth mentioning, for those who aren't familiar, is that Boston is a very small city with a teeny tiny downtown. You can easily walk from one end to another in an afternoon. A much smaller event than this can turn the whole city upside-down.

Seconding this for emphasis. I've met people who expected Boston, and even the Boston metropolitan area, to be much, much bigger than it is, considering all the famous schools in the area.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fuck. An eight-year-old kid died.

God damn it. Fuck.
posted by ericb at 3:48 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by Jughead at 3:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston is tough, Boston will be ok.
posted by vrakatar at 3:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by NedKoppel at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by ericb at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
Just unbelievable.
posted by chococat at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


this is unreal - last year I was working not six blocks away from where this happened. I remember cheering the runners as they ran past my T stop. 8 YEARS OLD????? 8 YEARS OLD????

Whoever did this failed utterly as a human being and as a threat. Congratulations asshole - you just galvanized the entire country against the next great idea the swamp that birthed you can dream up.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


.
posted by glhaynes at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


. . . (So far)
posted by ericb at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by mds35 at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013


*crying*
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some touching thoughts on Patriots' Day from FILM CRITIC HULK.
posted by WidgetAlley at 3:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Fuck this shit. I miss my adopted hometown more than ever now that I'm back in my actual hometown. I'm putting on my Red Sox shirt and going out to do something. I can't watch any more TV or Internet stuff.

My friends (and my Boston-based cousin, a supercrazygood competitive runner who is thankfully not a marathoner) and my family there are safe. My Mefi friends seem to be fine (thinking of you, sonika). My friend who works in the Pru building 4 blocks away just got released from lockdown.

I'm going outside.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 3:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


When I was 8, I got to watch the moon landing.

Kid, we failed you somehow. Sorry doesn't cover it.

.
posted by Kinbote at 3:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [76 favorites]


One dot for each of the 67 years that eight-year-old had left in probable life expectancy until those bombs went off:

...................................................................
posted by orange swan at 3:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Boston, as a Great City, is a loose confederation of interlinked industrial cities in Northeastern MA: Cambridge, Newton, Waltham, Quincy, Lyn, Brockton, etc., most of which would be outraged to be considered part of Boston. Boston proper is very small.
posted by Slap*Happy at 3:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Any word if the NYPD has held over the day shift? There seem to be more cops than usual in my neighborhood... But I live in an "impact zone" so that happens a lot.
posted by Jahaza at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2013


McVeigh/Nichols/Fortier chose April 19 to bomb OKC because it jibed with their super-patriot fantasies of Lexington/Concord, which Patriot's Day commemorates.

No, they didn't.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Zombieflanders: Apologies, I missed that. Got a lot going on on this end...
posted by rollbiz at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2013


I work across the river in Cambridge and heard the explosions, thought it was a truck or construction. Then the ambulances/police.

The marathon is well-televised, international, and relatively soft target. This is a huge tragedy. I will save my analysis for later/elsewhere, right now we should simply be trying to help those impacted.

This can be summed up from my favorite quote from The Wire:

This is fucked up and bullshit, yo
posted by Farce_First at 3:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Jahaza, there were cops on my corner (72nd and Broadway) tonight. I have never seen cops on our corner just hanging out.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:56 PM on April 15, 2013


side note, but you can't just run the Boston Marathon. You have to qualify in separate qualifying races.

My understanding is that there are a lot of exceptions to this, like certain organizations/schools/whatever can put together a team somehow? There was a contingent of marathon runners at my Boston area grad school and I don't think they had to qualify individually - I graduated last year and am no longer in the area but there was a group again this year, and immediately after the explosions a fellow student put together a Google doc for everyone who was running and spectating from our program to check in and let everyone know they were safe. It has been comforting watching those cells fill in with "ok" - it looks like we're still trying to track down just one of the hundred-ish people on the list.

What a fucking sad day.
posted by naoko at 3:56 PM on April 15, 2013


another quick reminder: https://chat.metafilter.com/
posted by Stewriffic at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I put my name on the Google Doc list of apartments, pretty early on. I just got a call from NBC news asking if they could interview me for TV. I declined. Crazy... I wonder why they called me. Maybe they are calling everyone.
posted by Cygnet at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


As someone who used to manage a store at Newbury St + Fairfield St and who has also been a NYC Marathon Finish Line Medic for years - I can say this is shocking, to say the least. Its familiar territory, literally and exactly the disaster EMS/Fire/PD train for.... but its ultimately unstoppable if you want the event to be what makes it so great. Terrible day...
posted by blaneyphoto at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2013


what a nightmare.

.
posted by Elly Vortex at 3:57 PM on April 15, 2013


McVeigh/Nichols/Fortier chose April 19 to bomb OKC because it jibed with their super-patriot fantasies of Lexington/Concord, which Patriot's Day commemorates.

No, they didn't.

Y'know, the two are not mutually exclusive.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:58 PM on April 15, 2013


You can run Boston with a charity entry, where you raise money. Also, many companies and the cities that the marathon runs through get their own entries.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


like certain organizations/schools/whatever can put together a team somehow?

There are numbers given out to sponsor organizations and charities and such, so technically you don't have to qualify, but they're pretty highly sought-after and you generally have to know somebody to get one.

There are also a lot of people who just jump on the course and run it, but they've been cracking down on that lately.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 3:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is this going to get called the Patriot's Day Bombing, or the Boston Marathon bombing? Pretty clear how sentiment could be shoved around with the former... Wondering whether and how the perpetrator was thinking about the date that way (as opposed to thinking about the mass of people there).

Fox News has probably made lots of hay on that one, right? I don't know, I plan to stay as far from them as possible.
posted by gusandrews at 3:59 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by klangklangston at 3:59 PM on April 15, 2013


Cowboy Hat Guy is a helper--I've seen him in two different shots. Good going, Cowboy Hat Guy.

The WashingtonPost has identified him as Carlos Arredondo in a photo caption. He's wearing a Tough Rucker T-shirt. Is it possible he's this guy?
posted by peeedro at 4:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


.
posted by immlass at 4:00 PM on April 15, 2013


The Newtown Patch reports that the 6 Newtown parents running the marathon have checked in as OK, according to the fellow at the charity they were running for.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


My understanding is that there are a lot of exceptions to this, like certain organizations/schools/whatever can put together a team somehow?

Many, many runners do not qualify and run with the "elites", and instead run for charities and such. These would actually be the vast majority of the people who would be crossing the finish line at 4:09:45, which is approximately when the blasts happened, and from personal experience, many of those who were in the blast area are folks who are their family and friends, waiting to see them finish...
posted by rollbiz at 4:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by cooker girl at 4:02 PM on April 15, 2013


I wonder how many MeFi runners have already finished qualifying races. It would not be hard to find that out, nor hard to set up a way of funding them to run to raise money for us next year.
posted by Miko at 4:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


I just peeled myself away from the TV because I couldn't take it anymore, only to come to my computer and end up here.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Although I'm not a Bostonian, I am a New Englander married to a Bostonian, and it's heavy in the house tonight.

.
posted by absquatulate at 4:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The whole thing is bad enough. But an eight year old? That's a kick in the gut.

Oklahoma City. Tucson. Newtown. And this. How the hell do people do this to children - and their families, who will never escape these scars?
posted by azpenguin at 4:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


damnit twice.

.

.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It occurred to me just now how many of those people running toward the injured aren't first responders, but just marathon volunteers.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


WCBV reporting that parking garages at Mass. General have been locked down.
posted by ericb at 4:08 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by Neneh at 4:08 PM on April 15, 2013


Does anyone have any ideas where I could send a stack of pizzas or something to help feed people that are stranded or helping out tonight?

Boston was home for a while. I'm heartbroken and I want to help at least a little bit.
posted by justjess at 4:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:10 PM on April 15, 2013


but just marathon volunteers.

I mentioned this above, but it bears mentioning again that marathon volunteers spend the whole marathon day helping the runners (and really anyone there to watch the marathon) in any way they can. They're awesome and this is just more proof of their awesomeness.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by heresiarch at 4:10 PM on April 15, 2013


.

Godamighty damn.

I was in the office all day in the Financial District. I had a project that took up my whole attention all day, and I felt almost grateful that I had something that needed so much attention. Then when I came from a meeting, my phone had blown up with worried texts and emails and calls and FB messages. Ended up walking a good way to pick up the Red Line at Charles.

One of my coworkers has twin babies. Their sitter had taken them out for the day -- and they were there when the explosions went off. The children were fine and got out promptly, but can you imagine learning that? From the way he was talking, if Obama doesn't get somebody for this, he will.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Joey Michaels, I've volunteered for NYCM before, and will do it again in 2013.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


It really struck me how many of the photos show people wearing vests that say "BAA PHYSICIAN." How many doctors do they normally have on hand for the marathon?
posted by ocherdraco at 4:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


God, how many more people have to die before the mental healthcare system gets an overhaul? And not just the subsystems that look after those who present a potential threat, but just the whole goddamn thing?
posted by smirkette at 4:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Then you, roomthreeseventeen, are awesome, too. Much love to you for all you do to help tired, cranky runners!
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:13 PM on April 15, 2013


ocherdraco, a lot. Marathoners are stubborn folks, and sometimes end up in bad shape at the finish line.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by ob at 4:15 PM on April 15, 2013


Just heard an official near the EOD staging area announce to any hungry emergency personnel that they should go to the nearby Shaws and "grab whatever they want". Apparently they've opened their doors to feed those working the incident.
posted by rollbiz at 4:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [41 favorites]


God, how many more people have to die before the mental healthcare system gets an overhaul?

We shouldn't assume the perpetrator(s) are mentally ill, any more than we should assume without evidence that they are members of any other group.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:18 PM on April 15, 2013 [49 favorites]


rollbiz, are you hearing anything about places that could accept donations of food for police/fire/EMT etc working the scene, or for stranded runners/volunteers?
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:19 PM on April 15, 2013


Map of the locations

Obama's speech
posted by nostrada at 4:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Charles Pierce: "You Are Not Safe Here": The Remains of a Horrible Day in Boston
It was always going to be something like this. After the Olympic Park Bombing in 1996, it wasn’t going to be a big event. It wasn’t going to be the Super Bowl. Or the World Series. Or college basketball’s Final Four. It was going to be a happy gathering that everyone took for granted. It was going to be the average college football game. It was going to be a small college basketball game. It was going to be the Boston Marathon, one of the last big open events in a society closing in on itself from every direction.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [23 favorites]


We shouldn't assume the perpetrator(s) are mentally ill, any more than we should assume without evidence that they are members of any other group.

Surely someone who could do such a thing is suffering from some sort of serious mental illness. I did not intend my comment to imply that people with mental illness, in general, are capable of such an act--of course they're not. Apologies if that's how it came across.
posted by smirkette at 4:27 PM on April 15, 2013


This happened about a block from where a friend of mine lives. We were trying to hear from her since this happened, but she took hours to report back to us. So relieved to hear from her. She says her apartment building is closed? Maybe the street?


She's trying to contact a friend of hers that was at the marathon but hasnt been able to. Can someone please repost the links that help in finding people?
posted by CrazyLemonade at 4:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The mental illness issue is not one that we need to discuss here or now, please?
posted by Splunge at 4:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


Here's the Red Cross Safe & Well site.
posted by cooker girl at 4:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


There are two people-finders I think:

Red Cross site

Google site
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:31 PM on April 15, 2013


Okay, I am 90% sure my parents didn't plan on going to Boston today; but I've called twice and there's no answer.

come on mom and dad i was on the phone to you 30 seconds after the first plane on 9/11 because i knew you'd freak out if you didn't know i was okay well it's your turn now
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


CrazyLemonade, here is the Google Person Finder link:

http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/

(On preview, I see that LosterMitten linked to this as well.)
posted by Short Attention Sp at 4:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Surely someone who could do such a thing is suffering from some sort of serious mental illness."

Sane people kill for ideological reasons all the time. Do you assume that all soldiers suffer from serious mental illnesses, just for wanting to be soldiers?
posted by Jacqueline at 4:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


Google Person Finder
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 4:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


>> Surely someone who could do such a thing is suffering from some sort of serious mental illness.

Only if you'd define any act of terrorism as mental illness, a completely non-standard definition. Blaming it on a mentally ill person at this stage is similar to drawing a conclusion about the perpetrator's race or creed -- premature.
posted by garlic at 4:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Please don't start the mental illness debate right now, please
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


.
posted by mayurasana at 4:34 PM on April 15, 2013


Total total unacceptable bullshit.




.
posted by Skygazer at 4:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by unreason at 4:35 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:35 PM on April 15, 2013


CrazyLemonade:

Google Person Finder:

http://google.org/personfinder/2013-boston-explosions/

Redcross Safe and Well:

https://safeandwell.communityos.org/zf/safesearch/search
posted by magstheaxe at 4:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I hope your parents are OK, EC. FWIW, probability is on their side...
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A Reuter's reporter at Boston Children's just tweeted this list: A horrible list fr Boston Childrens Hosp: leg trauma, age 9; femur fracture, age12; head injury, age2; head injury, age14; leg trauma, age10
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Speculating on the cause - the mental health system! terrorists! - is not helpful.

Please stop.

Boston people, please keep updating.

It really struck me how many of the photos show people wearing vests that say "BAA PHYSICIAN." How many doctors do they normally have on hand for the marathon?

Probably more than you think, but bear in mind that the Boston Medical Center is wicked close to the finish line.

Today is a very, very sad day.

I called my dad in a panic. He'd been watching the race in Brookline and just heard about the explosion when I called. Imagine how incredibly shocked all those runners must have been? Everything seemed fine five miles from the finish line.

Okay, I am 90% sure my parents didn't plan on going to Boston today; but I've called twice and there's no answer.

If it makes you feel any better, EC, cell service has been down for much of today.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 4:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


.
posted by pernoctalian at 4:39 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by bdz at 4:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Try texting, EC. Texts seem to go through when phone calls don't.
posted by lydhre at 4:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Please, please, please....

-Don't use emergency sites unless you need them, you'll clog them up

-Speculation will only make the chaos worse

-The NY Post is full of misinformation

-The Red Cross has enough blood to meet current demand

-Don't donate to unofficial sites that spring up on Facebook or other such places.
posted by magstheaxe at 4:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [27 favorites]


Actually Boston Medical Center is not that close to the finish line (2 miles away). I work at BMC (associated medical school, actually) and it's in the South End. MGH is probably about the same distance away, as are Children's, Brigham and Women's, and Beth Israel. None of them are in the Copley area but we do have plenty of good hospitals here in Boston.
posted by Cygnet at 4:42 PM on April 15, 2013


and to add to magstheaxe's list:
Don't let your kids watch cable news.
posted by nostrada at 4:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Yeah, BMC is way far off, in Boston terms. It's down by Roxbury.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:44 PM on April 15, 2013


Don't let your kids watch cable news.
I don't even let MYSELF watch cable news.
posted by jeoc at 4:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


Eight hours ago I was disappointed because I wouldn't be able to get downtown for the marathon. Jesus. Had to turn off the TV hours ago because metafilter does this stuff better than just about anywhere else. Thank you guys.
posted by sonmi at 4:44 PM on April 15, 2013


"Speculating on the cause - the mental health system! terrorists! - is not helpful."

I wouldn't group "speculating that it was terrorism" and "speculating that it was mental illness" in the same boat at all. The authorities have said that they are investigating this as a terrorist incident. All evidence thus far points to this being a terrorist incident.

We just don't know what *kind* of terrorist yet -- domestic vs. international, specific ideology, how big the conspiracy / support network might be, etc.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's probably because I'm Greek, but I have a unreal level of anger and disbelief reserved for terrorist acts that take place during sporting events. It's up there with the desecration of the dead. This is a completely dishonorable act.

I want supernaturally bad things to happen to the household of the person who did this.

.
posted by phaedon at 4:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Don't let your kids watch cable news.

Yeah, people can decide for themselves what their kids can watch. My niece is cuddled up in my arms, playing games and asking questions and we're doing just fine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]



Actually Boston Medical Center is not that close to the finish line (2 miles away)

Yeah, BMC is way far off, in Boston terms. It's down by Roxbury.

Wait, I'm talking about all the hospitals in the Longwood Area . . . Forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology. I haven't lived in Boston for four years.
posted by ablazingsaddle at 4:48 PM on April 15, 2013


.

Out here in Missouri, I had the day off today and was getting my car serviced—the airbag light just came on and stayed on earlier. So I was just sitting down in the dealership's customer lounge when I saw the first news about this—from YourAnonNews on Twitter. The TV in the waiting room didn't cut to the situation until a few minutes later.

Another strange and sad thing: One of the other women in the customer lounge said she'd actually been sitting there when 9/11 happened, too.

Also, I just finished watching Caprica last week, so the whole notion of something like this happening was floating around in my mind already this weekend, especially when I went to the ballgame here on Saturday. It's so awful that such a thing became reality.
posted by limeonaire at 4:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


The WashingtonPost has identified him as Carlos Arredondo in a photo caption. He's wearing a Tough Rucker T-shirt. Is it possible he's this guy?

Apparently the page has been edited since you posted. It now identifies him as that guy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I know we ought not speculate but the kind of bomb seems to point away from sophisticated international terrorism with ample funding. These were cheap bombs.
posted by vrakatar at 4:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Mod note: Don't do that "people are getting bombed other places in the world every day" thing either. There is a MeTa thread, you can go there.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [28 favorites]


Picture of him in a cowboy hat here, carrying his diseased son's combat boots. What a life this guy has lived.
posted by peeedro at 4:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Hi, everyone. My heart goes out to everyone who was affected, no matter how many degrees of separation. I have a friend who lives in Boston and has ran the marathon, but she wasn't running this year. It was the first thing I checked.

And I was fine all through the thread and looking at horrible photos ... and then I read about the eight year-old, and I cried.

Anyway, the maps I've seen have been not very good. That Boston Globe one just posted has the first bomb farther to the west than it ought. The second location looks right, though. I've made a Google Map pinpointing the two locations, identifying them via the photos. The first location was, as many have said, just slightly to the west of Marathon Sports, though it's hard to tell where the blast was actually centered. The second location was just west of the Starbucks; I can't tell what that business is.

Early in the thread there was speculation and discussion about mailboxes and that the authorities regularly remove these before the event. Has that been verified? Because the thing that really stands out to me in pinpointing these locations is that both have boxes in front of them in the Google street view. And, unless I've missed some when scrolling up the street; it's not like there's some every other storefront. Seems an odd coincidence, if that's all that it is.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


ablazingsaddle,

The Longwood hospitals (Brigham and Women's, Beth Israel Deaconess, Children's) are also about 2 miles from Copley. MGH is about 1.5 miles, near the North End.

Don't worry though, Boston has so many hospitals it's super easy to get them mixed up.
posted by Cygnet at 4:52 PM on April 15, 2013


An astronaut posts condolences from the ISS
posted by brentajones at 4:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


.


For the first time in forever years, I woke up at 5, decided not to go to the Lexington re-enactment, subsequent pancake breakfast and hop on the Alewife T to the marathon finish line.

For the first time in over 25 years I didn't go.
posted by kinetic at 4:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [27 favorites]


Both my friends who were running have reported in. One of my friend's parents were waiting for her at the finish line. Glad they're ok too.

I keep feeling bad that their first Boston run was spoiled (neither of them got to finish) but then I remember that they are alive and still have their limbs. I guess I can feel bad for them and still feel bad for the victims.

I took a ton of photos today, almost all of them showing sheer joy. Then this. Fuck whomever did this.
posted by bondcliff at 4:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


The Boston Globe has a map and graphics of the site of the two explosions and one disarmed device here.



Editorial.

Whomever did this was deliberately going for massive casualties. First bomb goes off near the finish, where the crowd is likely to be. The next bomb goes off ~20 seconds later, where they're likely to be running away to -- and of course, to ramp the panic level up high.

The third? It's in a pretty good place to kill people running the other way and medics coming to help.

There's no question that this was an intentional attack, by someone reasonably skilled in explosives. Setting up bombs that rip the legs off people at a marathon? I don't think that was coincidence. And, of course, the problem for that poor 8 year old is that his chest was about knee high to an adult.

I'm also wondering if this was a lone bomber with pre-placed bombs, or a team effort. Nothing, so far, says that it couldn't be one guy.

The "good" news is if that third device is real, that's solid evidence for finding out who, at the very least, made the bombs.
posted by eriko at 4:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


I passed through Copley Square just a few weeks back while visiting friends--I recognize the places in the photos--my god. I have friends who were running in the marathon or living/working nearby; they're all okay, but it breaks my heart. Boston was a home away from home when I lived there.

I am sick with anger, and the vindictive side of me wishes that whoever is the perpetrator of such a terrible act is pursued by the goddamn Furies forever and ever.

.
posted by ilicet at 4:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston is a great town full of great people and this makes me cry.

. .
posted by kinnakeet at 4:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh, also, it's striking to me how far west of the second bombing was that one phone video where you hear it going off. It was about 200 feet to the west.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:54 PM on April 15, 2013


My thoughts and prayers to everyone affected. And as preferential as this sounds, I really hope beyond hope that the Sandy Hook families were untouched.
posted by dejah420 at 4:55 PM on April 15, 2013


welcome back, Ivan, even under sad circumstances
posted by Rumple at 4:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


I am sick with anger, and the vindictive side of me wishes that whoever is the perpetrator of such a terrible act is pursued by the goddamn Furies forever and ever.

Grant them immortality, chain them to a rock, and let an eagle eat their livers every day.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Regarding Charles Pierce's Esquire piece (also linked and quoted above)... Its worth reading, but its also worth saying that we, as a people, should agree that we won't ramp up security to stupid levels in the wake of this at the Boston (and other) Marathons. Because, really, fuck the bomber.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


I took a second pass at buying tortilla chips, mostly to get away from the TV set. Two helicopters hovering over Charlesgate/Fenway Victory Gardens, near Kenmore Square. That's about a short mile away from the finish line. One of them was much lower than they usually hover.

The Whole Foods near the Boston symphony (about 1/2 mile from the finish line) was closed, with a "Closed. Be Safe" sign in the door. Fewer cars than usual for a weekday evening in Spring, much fewer people walking around than usual for Patriot's Day. Saw a few police cars driving around, lights on, no siren. There was one parked just up from the Symphony, roof lights on. I think they're serious about securing a large area as a crime scene.

There was a group of 6 students near a cab on Westland Avenue, and a family (Mom in a track suit, Dad, two kids, and Grandma) yelled over "Are you guys using that cab?". I think they were about to try to fit all eleven of them in.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:58 PM on April 15, 2013


*deceased, stupid phone.
posted by peeedro at 4:58 PM on April 15, 2013


My wife says the old man who fell in the video above is the uncle of someone on Ravelry, and that he's fine, in case you were wondering,
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [32 favorites]


Elementary Penguin: "My wife says the old man who fell in the video above is the uncle of someone on Ravelry, and that he's fine, in case you were wondering,"

My first thought upon watching him fall was, "Shrapnel." So yeah. I was wondering. Good news.
posted by Splunge at 5:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I haven't really read this thread, I started to and then I started thinking about my niece. She's run in the marathon before and I knew she wasn't planning to run this year - but she is a nurse and often volunteers in the medical tent. When I heard them say the medical tent, it just clicked that she would be right there.

I tried to reach everyone in my family to find out if she was there. I couldn't get her Mom or any of my sisters and I was working myself up into a real panic. I finally reached one of my sisters a few hours ago. Yes, she was there, she was with a few other nurses. She told her Mom that in an instant, it was a war zone - the worst thing she has ever seen -- missing and broken limbs, bones jutting out of skin, terrible gruesome injuries. She said the injuries were so severe there wasn't really anything they could do for people there beyond rushing them to the hospital as soon as possible. After people were off for medical care, she and her friends left to come home. Her Mom says she is very shaken. I am so freaking grateful nothing happened to her, she is so important to me.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [35 favorites]


"Setting up bombs that rip the legs off people at a marathon? I don't think that was coincidence."

Maybe. But it could just be a function of how the bomb was placed by necessity, not by choice, right?

"And, of course, the problem for that poor 8 year old is that his chest was about knee high to an adult."

Yeah, I had thought the same thing when I noticed that injuries were to lower legs and then heard about the child.

"The 'good' news is if that third device is real, that's solid evidence for finding out who, at the very least, made the bombs."

I don't think that "good" needs the scare quotes, because surely it is good in itself that the device wasn't triggered and that it means solid evidence which could possibly lead to the bomber or, at least, be solid evidence incriminating a suspect they've found otherwise.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some idiot just called into WBUR asking if maybe the bombs went off because two recreational runners might have strapped the bombs to their legs as they ran?

WHAT WORLD ARE WE LIVING IN?
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


rollbiz, are you hearing anything about places that could accept donations of food for police/fire/EMT etc working the scene, or for stranded runners/volunteers?

I have not. I promise that if that changes, I will let folks here know.
posted by rollbiz at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


.
posted by Wordshore at 5:03 PM on April 15, 2013


Other than the offers for housing for stranded folks already posted here, that is....
posted by rollbiz at 5:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Don't worry though, Boston has so many hospitals it's super easy to get them mixed up.

I once went to visit friends who had just had their kid in a Longwood Area hospital. I must have wasted twenty minutes of the Beth Israel maternity receptionist's time before it clicked that they were actually at Brigham.
posted by benito.strauss at 5:04 PM on April 15, 2013


............
posted by learnsome at 5:04 PM on April 15, 2013


There's already an article in the local paper about the older gentleman in the orange shirt who collapsed as he was running. he's from lake stevens wa. (very near to me) and he's fine. completed the race and then, like a boss, walked half a mile to his hotel.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [22 favorites]


madamjujujive, please send hugs from a stranger to your sister.
posted by DrMew at 5:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Everett Herald
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Nurses deserve a hug no matter what. And teachers. I am sure the list goes on . . .
posted by nostrada at 5:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


dejah420, they seem to be fine.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:09 PM on April 15, 2013


From the Washington Post's Ezra Klein: If you are losing faith in human nature, go out and watch a marathon.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Does anyone know if there is a way to donate to help with the medical bills for the victims? Or, if anyone hears of one, please post. I will be looking also.
posted by double bubble at 5:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


CBS radio just confirmed that a Saudi male is in custody; but pointed out the individual is in custody, but not under arrest yet. The individual was captured by another witness who saw him running away and tackled him. Naturally lots of people were running away. The WTOP/CBS news folks were being very cautious and qualifying it. If the cops were more certain of anything they'd have convicted the man on air already.
posted by humanfont at 5:18 PM on April 15, 2013


madamjujujive: As I was driving home, NPR had an interview with a cardiac doctor working a Boston ER (I think Beth Israel) that got ~20 injured in the explosion. He said it was incredibly lucky that the injury tent was already set up near the finish line, and he reported being impressed at how stable from field-triage the patients already were upon entering the ER. By his account, the quick thinking and triage from the medical staff on the scene saved many lives.

Please give your niece a hug from the Internet and me.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [32 favorites]


Grant them immortality, chain them to a rock, and let an eagle eat their livers every day.

Prometheus was given that punishment as a result of the tremendous benefits he gave mankind.

The people who did this do not deserve the honor of even being tortured the same way.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


I sure wouldn't want to be a Saudi guy that someone decided was suspicious in the wake of a bombing, no sireee.
posted by BungaDunga at 5:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [18 favorites]


> Prometheus was given that punishment as a result of the tremendous benefits he gave mankind.

The people who did this do not deserve the honor of even being tortured the same way.

I keep thinking lakes of fire and darkness visible, but that's probably still too grand.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can we not talk about torture.
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [63 favorites]


Sorry for my part in it.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:26 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: Chill folks, there is an open MeTa thread if you need to complain or make this personal. People deal with terrible news in different ways.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sorry.
posted by Splunge at 5:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm taking my first trip to Boston in less than three weeks. I've never even been that far up the East Coast/New England, and it was always this weird black hole for me, geographically. I guess I was always a little...afraid of it? From things I'd read about certain areas of the city, especially growing up in the late '60s and '70s, when it seemed like there were a lot of tensions around stuff like busing. And I've been really excited and kind of nervous about my trip, even though my friends live in a suburb.

Somehow this just seems so surreal, so much more intensely awful because I've been laser focused on the city. Like, before, I never even knew about Patriot Day and the marathon was this footnote of feminist history for me. And that one of the dead is an 8-year-old child...

I don't even know what I'm trying to say, just that I guess I feel even more dialed in about this than I could have imagined, and I'm so, so sorry that this has happened.
posted by emcat8 at 5:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


People who find it therapeutic to talk about hunting down and punishing the perpetrators might want to try http://www.reddit.com/r/murica instead.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Friendly note: people who find it therapeutic to talk about hunting down and punishing the perpetrators need to have that conversation entirely someplace else and not in this thread.
posted by jessamyn at 5:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [31 favorites]


Senseless.

Ever since I heard, I've had this phrase on my mind on repeat:

"Let there be peace on Earth, and let it begin with me."

.
posted by mynameisluka at 5:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?
posted by empath at 5:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


The fantasies of violent vegence against those who wronged us are just the seeds that grow into bombs and bullets aimed at the innocent.
posted by humanfont at 5:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


entirely someplace else, folks.
posted by jessamyn at 5:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]


Apologies if this was posted already:

Patton Oswalt:

Boston. F*cking horrible.

I remember, when 9/11 went down, my reaction was, “Well, I’ve had it with humanity.”

But I was wrong. I don’t know what’s going to be revealed to be behind all of this mayhem. One human insect or a poisonous mass of broken sociopaths.

But here’s what I DO know. If it’s one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. (Thanks FAKE Gallery founder and owner Paul Kozlowski for pointing this out to me). This is a giant planet and we’re lucky to live on it but there are prices and penalties incurred for the daily miracle of existence. One of them is, every once in awhile, the wiring of a tiny sliver of the species gets snarled and they’re pointed towards darkness.

But the vast majority stands against that darkness and, like white blood cells attacking a virus, they dilute and weaken and eventually wash away the evil doers and, more importantly, the damage they wreak. This is beyond religion or creed or nation. We would not be here if humanity were inherently evil. We’d have eaten ourselves alive long ago.

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, “The good outnumber you, and we always will.”
posted by Splunge at 5:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?

If they wanna start something, this doesn't seem the likely way.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?

Doesn't seem like their style. I thought they didn't let anyone ( a terrorist for example) out of North Korea lest they see how much better the rest of the planet is.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?

I'm going to assume that you're kidding, because that's beyond preposterous, and I really question the judgement that leads to making a joke like that.
posted by dersins at 5:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?

North Korea has.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:40 PM on April 15, 2013


I was just wondering about North Korea as well.Kinda bad when you have several entirely different groups of people that want to kill you.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:40 PM on April 15, 2013


It's definitely NOT the North Koreans. Wow.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 5:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?"

That was my husband's first thought too (?!?!), but this just doesn't smell like North Korea to me. They don't seem to have the resources to support terrorist cells in the U.S. -- plus any agents they tried to send here would be a huge defection risk, I'd think.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:41 PM on April 15, 2013


BTW -- according to WHDH/WCVB/WBZ/CNN/MSNBC: a BPD/Boston press conference scheduled for 'moments away.'
posted by ericb at 5:41 PM on April 15, 2013


North Korea has.

That doesn't seem to be a North Korea account.
posted by Jahaza at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2013


I give up here.
posted by Splunge at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ok, I accept you guys know much more about world affairs than I do. sorry.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:42 PM on April 15, 2013


I was there right after, I hurried as my wife has stepped away from the crowd and was on the phone as the first bomb went off, bad connection, she described blood and legs, and and then the line went dead. OMFG. Left the office and started across town. My personal connections were ok but a really long nervous scary walk through the dense crowd. No one knew anything and the cell service was really dead, perhaps they did shut down the cell service. Insane.
posted by sammyo at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [12 favorites]


For some reason my cousin and my husband both decided that maybe it was North Korea... I was like.. wth o_O
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]



Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?

I dunno, man. I think the whole Patriot/Tax day thing is too big a notion to be unrelated, and I just can't see them grasping the significance.

Personally, I'd put money on it being one of those principled "Tree of Liberty/Blood of tyrants" patriot militia types. But I'm just spitballing here.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Seems crazy that Boston was the scene of two crazy over-reactions to things that weren't bombs, the Aqua Teen Hunger force light-up things and Star Simpson wearing a sweat-shirt with LEDs on it. I don't really remember hearing about the same kind of over-reaction events in other cities, and yet Boston is the place that ends up getting bombed.

Also people seriously this obviously has nothing to do with North Korea.
People who find it therapeutic to talk about hunting down and punishing the perpetrators might want to try http://www.reddit.com/r/murica instead.
Oh, Reddit. TIL there is an /r/MuricaNSFW
BPD officially knocks down NY Post Saudi national story - TPM
I remember rumors about "Arabs" being searched for in the hours after the OKC bombing as well.
Further details are coming in from multiple sources (LA Times, CBS News) regarding Saudi national story - reports stating Saudi national is NOT in custody but is being questioned, reported to be cooperative and not a suspect.
Yeah, that's what I figured happened. Someone from Saudi Arabia happened to get hit and a bunch of idiots freak out and think "Ermygerd Al-Quaeda!!!!!"
Aren't bombs old tech?
As opposed to what? Killer robots? Genetically modified viruses? What kind of tech do you think a terrorist could get their hands on that would be as dangerous as a bomb without requiring the attacker to be physically present.
posted by delmoi at 5:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can we please not speculate? Please?
posted by ambrosia at 5:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Press Conference Starting. via Mediaite.

couple of minutes away
posted by lampshade at 5:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Press conference starting now.
posted by ericb at 5:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


For people who think the North Korea idea is ridiculous -- I agree that it's incredibly far-fetched but I understand why some people might think of them.

Those of us who live in parts of the country that might be targeted (or live downwind from those targets) have had nuclear war with North Korea in our thoughts for several weeks now, and everything else is being filtered through that preoccupation.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2013


What lampshade just said.
posted by ericb at 5:46 PM on April 15, 2013


Jesus shit you guys, speculating helps no one. I live FEET from where this happened. "Nearby" Shaw's is about 100yds from the explosions. The Pru? Not four blocks away. Just one.

I appreciate MeFi in times like this, but as per jessamyn's request can you just knock it the shit off with speculating? It makes even MeFi hard for those of us personally affected and shit's hard enough right now. There will be plenty of REAL info later to get enraged about.
posted by sonika at 5:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [46 favorites]


There's a report that five more unexploded devices that have been found (Wall Street Journal).
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Has anyone considered that this might be the North Koreans?


Austin. It was Austin. Not Boston.
posted by bendy at 5:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


Jesus shit you guys, speculating helps no one.

It helps plenty of people to consider who did this and why. To expect people not to is asking for too much from human nature.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [31 favorites]


Apologies if this was posted already

Pick a phrase and search this page for it. Easy peasy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


There's a report that five more unexploded devices have been found (Wall Street Journal):
Counterterrorism officials found what they believe to be five additional, undetonated explosive devices around the Boston area, according to two people briefed on the rapidly moving investigation.

The devices—which are in addition to the two that exploded near the finish line of the marathon—were discovered over the course of a frantic inspection of suspicious packages, many of them abandoned as pedestrians, runners, and others scrambled away from crowded public streets. Each had been rendered inoperative or was in the process of being rendered inoperative, the officials said.

But the officials also sounded a note of caution, saying they are moving quickly and each device they believe is a bomb hasn't been fully dissected or analyzed.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:51 PM on April 15, 2013


So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, "The good outnumber you, and we always will."

This (beautiful) statement reminds me of what I think Mr. Rogers said to comfort people in such times of tragedy: look for the helpers. There are always helpers. And now I'm finally crying.
posted by theredpen at 5:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


"There is no suspect at Brigham and Women's Hospital," directly from the BPD.
posted by scrump at 5:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


People speculate to air their concerns, to get validation or not, and/or because we're all wound up with the horror, there's not actually anything we can do, but we need to talk, and we need to be together.
posted by theora55 at 5:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


BPD has reported "at least" a third death.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:55 PM on April 15, 2013


My God, the first question was a question about this being a false flag operation to "take away our civil liberties".

I just...I can't even comprehend this. What is wrong with us.
posted by scrump at 5:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


I'm taking my first trip to Boston in less than three weeks. I've never even been that far up the East Coast/New England, and it was always this weird black hole for me, geographically. I guess I was always a little...afraid of it?

Come visit us, emcat8! You're coming at the most beautiful time to visit Boston/Massachusetts, despite what happened today there's nothing to be afraid of here, and we'd all love to have you!
posted by rollbiz at 5:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


What is wrong with us.

Nothing. There's always a few people with extreme views or takes on things. Just let it go and concentrate on what's important.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Just wanted to let everybody know that I'm fine, I was actually flying into Logan when this happened, as DiscourseMarker mentioned above, and was caught in a hold of air traffic for a bit. I mostly had good luck getting home on the T, although we ran into signal trouble at Central Square and I gave up and walked to Harvard. It's good to be home.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [21 favorites]


If you'd like to talk and be together, http://chat.metafilter.com/ is always open and right now we've got lots of people in there, talking about this as well as side topics (and links to calming pictures of cute animals, as bonuses.)
posted by Mizu at 5:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Glad to hear you're home safe, HR!
posted by ocherdraco at 6:01 PM on April 15, 2013


The thing about speculation (and the weird thing about this event, and the sad thing in general) is that there are so many possible threads to follow: off-shore terrorism, Waco, Oklahoma City, Patriots Day, Tax Day, Newtown, North Korea, random bomber with a grudge against the marathon specifically ... not to mention random bomber with a motive we don't even know about ... and the list may go on. And the more we talk about it, the more lines get drawn.

I don't envy the BPD and the FBI their task in solving this. Unless someone left some very clear clues, the rabbit hole could be miles and miles deep.
posted by anastasiav at 6:01 PM on April 15, 2013


ChurchHatesTucker: " Apologies if this was posted already

Pick a phrase and search this page for it. Easy peasy."

Sorry again. I've been following this since it happened. I've been on here the whole, what, seven hours. I'm both stunned and numb. Sorry that I didn't think of a search. I actually scrolled thru the thread and obviously missed it.

You know what though? It bears repeating.
posted by Splunge at 6:01 PM on April 15, 2013


That would require NK to have agents that they could smuggle into the US that had sufficient loyalty to carry out such a long-range mission yet be sufficiently sophisticated and westernized that they would not stand out like a sore thumb trying to plant the bombs. This seems an unlikely combination. And even given that, the Boston Marathon would seem an unlikely target for a country that likes to puff themselves up about their military prowess. I would expect any actions would be aimed at something they could at least attempt to call "collaborators in the aggression on the Motherland", i.e. at least vaguely political or military.

So NK is way, way down on the likelihood scale. The target choice alone says to me someone American or at least substantially Americanized enough to think of Boston as a high profile target. If it turns out to be someone(s) foreign-born, I suspect they will have lived here for quite a while, and I still think anti-government types are the most likely pool.
posted by tavella at 6:02 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Mizu, how does chat.metafilter even work? Where do you register and all that.
posted by Trochanter at 6:03 PM on April 15, 2013


What was the question someone was shouting as the Governor and others were leaving the press conference? Anyone able to make it out?
posted by AwkwardPause at 6:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Trochanter, the username and password are your mefi username and password.
posted by ocherdraco at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2013


What was the question someone was shouting as the Governor and others were leaving the press conference? Anyone able to make it out?

It seemed to be the same guy who asked the first question in the press conference re: a false flag attack. Ugh.
posted by SNWidget at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2013


Come visit us, emcat8!

Seconded!
posted by theredpen at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


It's not North Korea, for reasons. I mean, I could be wrong, but that would mean my entire understanding of pretty much everything is wrong, in a oh maybe we are actually simulations in an alien computer and he's fucking with console commands kind of everything I understand is wrong.

DPRK isn't interested in terrorism. Or nuking anybody. They're interested in keeping their elites in power by maintaining absolute control over their population and keeping all the other countries from interfering through their persona as the crazy unpredictable wildcard on the international stage. Their leverage is South Korea, and the gun they have pointed at its head. The nuclear program is to make sure that particular equation doesn't ever veer into 'acceptable losses' territory.
posted by danny the boy at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


What was the question someone was shouting as the Governor and others were leaving the press conference? Anyone able to make it out?

It was the "false flag" guy, I think he was asking/shouting about how/why people were being directed a certain way? Or told a certain thing?
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:05 PM on April 15, 2013


He was shouting something about reaching in the pants of the American people and an excuse to put TSA on every street. Or something.

I'm trying to find a replay of that presser, because that dude needs to be called out and roundly mocked.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Instructions for using chat.metafilter.com: http://faq.metafilter.com/#281
posted by Jacqueline at 6:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


It was the same "false flag" guy; he was yelling something about "can you explain why marathon runners were warned to 'remain calm' before the bombs went off", and then some hurfdurf about false flags.
posted by scrump at 6:06 PM on April 15, 2013


AwkwardPause: It was the same guy repeating his first question, saying "Why were there loudspeakers telling people to remain calm before the first blast, and wasn't it true that this was a false flag operation meant to take away our civil liberties?"

To which the mayor answered (the first time) "No. Next question."
posted by brentajones at 6:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


And the reason why people are thinking North Korea is that fucking goddamn stupid ass racist movie
posted by danny the boy at 6:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Pulgasari?
posted by RakDaddy at 6:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


On replay - I missed it the first time - the explosion at the JFK library is believed to be related.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:08 PM on April 15, 2013


The target choice alone says to me someone American or at least substantially Americanized enough to think of Boston as a high profile target. If it turns out to be someone(s) foreign-born, I suspect they will have lived here for quite a while, and I still think anti-government types are the most likely pool.

I don't know. I agree with you that it's an obvious choice for militia-ish groups. But 'lots of people, many of whom will be wandering around in a somewhat disorganised fashion' is probably a common criterion to use when picking a bombing target. Bags tend to get searched going into stadiums, which makes the marathon an easier target than a lot of sporting events, which are an obvious category of events fulfilling that criterion.
posted by hoyland at 6:08 PM on April 15, 2013


And the reason why people are thinking North Korea is that fucking goddamn stupid ass racist movie

And because they've been threatening to blow us up all month, no?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


I'm from Hyderabad, India and Boston has been my new home over the past 4+ years. I'm trying to make a new life here, and I have made amazing friends in various locals and suburb-dwellers during grad school and after. This is a city that always felt perfect for me, and has given me so much solace as a home away from home. I've been assimilating the culture and the spirit of all the wonderful people I meet, and when this happened today, I just couldn't take it. It felt like they hit home.

And not just because my other home was traumatized just two months ago.

But, no matter. My city will bounce back, like all my cities.
posted by mysticreferee at 6:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [47 favorites]


The false flag guy should go take the "Newtown was a hoax" folks and they should go off in the woods somewhere very far away and stop making life more difficult for those of us in the reality-based community.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Actually, there is precedent for the North Korea speculations. Living near Fort Bragg I wait on a lot of soldiers. One claiming to be special forces or something similar (yeah right) was claiming a lot of the Korean asian food stores around here were actually staffed by NK agents.


I don't know whether to roll my eyes flat out of my head or have my world view tampered with but at the moment I lean heavily to the former.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can someone create an app that blocks access to news sites for 24 hours after a tragedy? I need to step away from the CNN.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 6:11 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm in New York City and got home a couple of hours ago. A very quiet, somber ride on the subway from Chambers St to the Bronx. This city remembers.
posted by sciencegeek at 6:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


were actually staffed by NK agents.

Thanks for finding something more insane than the false flag guy.
posted by GuyZero at 6:11 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


Danny the boy, I think that people are thinking it might be the NK because they have been threatening the US in the last couple of days. However I totally agree with tavella-- this doesn't sound like anything NK would or could carry out. Anybody who was sent to the USA to become covert operator would probably defect in a heartbeat, seduced by the abundance of food and the freedom to think and do what they like..
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2013


One of the scariest things about this attack is that there seems to have been no chatter about it beforehand - no one saw it coming. Which means either it was some crazy guy acting alone (which the growing number of bombs makes hard to believe, but maybe), or that the known groups who are out there are getting better at hiding how they plan their attacks. I don't believe this was NK, but I sure would rather believe it was them, or that it was a lone crazy guy no one knew about, than that Al Qaeda or other terror groups we are actively watching have figured out a way to coordinate completely silently.
posted by Mchelly at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


This movie.

And because they've been threatening to blow us up all month, no?

They've been doing that the entire time North Korea has existed. They do that. That's what they do.
posted by danny the boy at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


You can see an Info Wars mic at the PC, if you were wondering where the conspiracy question came from.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:12 PM on April 15, 2013


Apologies if this was posted already:

It was, Splunge. But you know something? It‘s a sentiment that bears repeating...

I am angry, and saddened, by today‘s events. But hearing so many Boston-area MeFites checking in to say that they and theirs are okay, that I find very comforting. The time for debating the whys and wherefores comes later; tonight, be safe and hold your loved ones close.

On preview: Jinx!
posted by Jughead at 6:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Seriously, fuck that guy. Boston is stronger than this and after this pain and horror fades we will be fine.

I'm sure I'm not the only person thinking of running next year to prove that idiocy like this only means what we let it mean.
posted by Aizkolari at 6:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


To anyone who might be interested, there seems to be a "thing" going around social media asking everyone to wear race shirts to work tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:14 PM on April 15, 2013


North Korea has done many bad things in the last, say, 20 years, but they have always used official military technologies (e.g. artillery shells, torpedoes) and struck against South Korean targets located along the border between the countries. This is not their MO in any way, shape or form.

The two broad groups of people who have planned or performed attacks like this (i.e. bombings against crowds in the United States) in that timeline are Islamist radicals and right-wing extremists. While there's always the possibility of something new, it is most likely that the perpetrators are in one of these two groups.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 6:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


I sure wouldn't want to be a Saudi guy that someone decided was suspicious in the wake of a bombing, no sireee.

‘Please don’t be a Muslim’: Boston marathon blasts draw condemnation and dread in Muslim world
posted by mediareport at 6:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Several things I just noticed watching the press conference.

1) Scott Thompson should play Deval Patrick in the movie.
2) watching these ad hoc streams on a mobile device has got to be wreaking havoc on the lizard people people. I mean, I'm (pretty) sure everyone in the room was human but each one of them was subject to some of those corrupted video decoding mutations that has the crazies convinced.
3) Seeing "False Flag" as the explanation to everything is the mark of a broken mind.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Can someone create an app that blocks access to news sites for 24 hours after a tragedy? I need to step away from the CNN.

Make like Nike and "Just Do It."

No, seriously...

I honestly don't mean to be insensitive, but if watching/reading the mainstream news after an event like this makes you ill at ease (which is completely understandable), perhaps it would be best if you simply refrain from doing so.

Take ownership of your refusal to be frightened and manipulated.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 6:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


While there's always the possibility of something new, it is most likely that the perpetrators are in one of these two groups.

Or just a random unhinged individual, like the Aurora cinema shooter or the guy who shot the congresswoman.
posted by acb at 6:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'd be really surprised if the perpetrator was anti-running or somehow against marathons. Does running next year really send a message?

I think the best response is to redouble a commitment to protect and even restore civil liberties in the face of their continuing erosion.

Consider rebeccablood's comment in the 9-11 thread:

my greatest fear is how our government is going to respond. more erosion of freedom in the name of security. mark my words.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:10 AM on September 11, 2001 [211 favorites +] [!]
posted by Rumple at 6:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


@jamescdownie: I've always assumed Alex Jones is a conspiracy designed to discredit Alex Jones.
OK, that's kind of chuckleworthy.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


because that dude needs to be called out and roundly mocked.

some poorly educated dude who has seen the aftermath of 9-11/has been led to unreasonable fear because of it is not my idea of a target of ridicule, and the internet is not your personal army
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 6:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: "And the reason why people are thinking North Korea is that fucking goddamn stupid ass racist movie

And because they've been threatening to blow us up all month, no?"

I don't want to feed into this but it's stupid and I'll try to clarify. North Korea wants to be seen as a nuclear power. They don't actually want to injure people the way a terrorist would. Their MO here is not small bombs. That is "beneath them". They want all the other nuclear powers in the world to view them as equals. They want to be seen as a Power (big P). Not a terrorist (very small t).

Okay?
posted by Splunge at 6:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [23 favorites]


I'm merely requesting people not speculate here in this thread. If that's not doable, peace be with you all and I'll hang out elsewhere.

I get that everyone copes differently, but Christ in Toast it's intense when it's your own backyard.

(Glad you got home, HR!)
posted by sonika at 6:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


No matter who did this, I keep being struck with the thought of that person (or group of persons) being out there somewhere seeing what they've done splashed across the news and I'm just so fucking pissed off. What the fuck, seriously.
posted by something something at 6:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I wasn't going to post in this thread, but upon hearing one of the unfortunate deceased victims was only 8 years old, my stomach sank. My thoughts are with the victims, their families, the medical personnel and police, and anybody else who may be involved with this tragic event.

I am also disgusted with those who are using this event to further whatever political message they are trying to get across. This is neither the time nor place.

I personally do not see this as anything other than an act of terrorism. I am confident Boston Police and the FBI will get us all answers as to who is involved. Foreign or domestic, terrorism is terrorism.
posted by Sarcasm at 6:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


(Glad you got home, HR!)

Thanks, so glad you guys were out of harm's way.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Curse of the armchair detective. I'm going to get out of this thread before I speculate more. Stay strong Beantown and stay strong good people everywhere. A coward with a pipe bomb is no match for love, and justice is not vengance.
posted by vrakatar at 6:25 PM on April 15, 2013


Press conferences after public emergencies are not the place for fear-mongering. Members of the press are supposed to be collecting information. That man was being a shit.

I am not well enough to be here lately (ironic silver lining of illness means I was miles away from the bombings) but I am thinking of all my fellow Massholes with love right now and thanks to everyone everywhere for caring about us.

I have another reason to get well now, to volunteer at next year's marathon, because fuck you bomber(s) we are going to have nice things despite you.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Bad craziness. I'm so sad for the victims. I wish I could do more than listen to "Animals" and brood.
posted by Gelatin at 6:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I also feel terrible I am unable to assist in any way. What compounds this terrible feeling is the fact that I flew into Logan last night and was in Boston until the wee hours.
posted by Sarcasm at 6:26 PM on April 15, 2013


I am also disgusted with those who are using this event to further whatever political message they are trying to get across. This is neither the time nor place.

Make no mistake: the odds are good that this was supposed to be a political message. The problem is, it says nothing. So whomever did it sort of sucks at that part.
posted by anastasiav at 6:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


False flag guy was Dan Bidondi of Infowars.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:26 PM on April 15, 2013


I thought I recognized his voice. Fucking shit. Fuck him. That shit is on a par with Howard Stern fans calling up and screaming "Ba-Ba-Booey!"
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


This is a global site and people should be respectful but it does not revolve around any single perspective or geographic locale.
posted by Rumple at 6:29 PM on April 15, 2013


"When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of 'disaster,' I remember my mother's words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers--so many caring people in this world." - Fred Rogers
posted by littlesq at 6:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


North Korea has been involved in terrorist acts previously such as the bombing of a South Korean airlines jet back in the 1980s. Today was an important day for them as birthday of Kim Il Sung (their founder). They could be hoping that the US would blame Iran or Al Qaeda and thereby be distracted from the current situation on the Korean penn. The consequences of being caught would be pretty bad for them.
posted by humanfont at 6:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


1) Scott Thompson should play Deval Patrick in the movie.

I realize that I'm focusing on the wrong thing, but unless I'm blind or otherwise stupid, wouldn't it make more sense to have a black actor portray Deval Patrick, the first African American Governor of Massachusetts?

Boston peeps: Stay inside!
posted by ablazingsaddle at 6:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Islamist radicals and right-wing extremists

Eric Rudolph, the guy who "bombed" the '96 Olympics in Atlanta was neither of these. I guess if he was in any group it would be "crazy guys".

We also have the '85 Air India bombing which was Sikh separatists and the '95 Sarin gas attacks in the Tokyo subway which was organized religious crazy people.

I mean, if we go by history, it could really be fucking anybody.
posted by GuyZero at 6:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Make no mistake: the odds are good that this was supposed to be a political message. The problem is, it says nothing. So whomever did it sort of sucks at that part.

I have no doubt you're correct, but that was not what I was talking about. To address your point, I belive violence is rarely acceptable to advance a message.
posted by Sarcasm at 6:33 PM on April 15, 2013


Eric Rudolph was certainly a right-wing extremist. He described himself as a "Catholic monarchist" and was aided by a number of militia groups while on the run.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


My company has offices on Arlington. I was there two weeks ago. My colleagues are reportedly okay.

Sad to hear about the boy.
posted by seemoreglass at 6:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


This is terrible, I feel bad for all the folks affected by this.

Foreign or domestic, terrorism is terrorism.

Yeah this. The Boston NPR station keeps reporting it as being investigated as a "potential case of terrorism." Like if it's not done by brown people from the Middle East it isn't terrorism?
posted by marxchivist at 6:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


FWIW Eric Rudolph was a white nationalist.
posted by Hello, Revelers! I am Captain Lavender! at 6:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Eric Rudolph was also anti-equal rights and anti-choice.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah my thoughts about NK are not only whatever racist movie or pure stupidity. I been wrapped up with the saga of them raising and lowering their launchers last week to scare Japan, Kim Jong Un's imfamous IMac and the threat to colorado. Last I heard we Japan and the US offered to renew talks yesterday but they hadn't responded.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:36 PM on April 15, 2013


Brown people? White people? Crazy people? Who gives a fuck.

Try this color:

Dead eight year old. Get a grip people.
posted by Splunge at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


I stayed at the Lenox on my first trip to Boston and have spent many happy hours among the books and warm bready smell that is BPL

I weep for my beloved, most favorite of US cities.
posted by brujita at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Guys, if it was North Korea there wouldn't be a complete absence of anyone claiming credit. They'd be spinning their weird funky little PR wheels. For that and many other reasons, it's not North Korea.

I also feel terrible I am unable to assist in any way.

It sounds trite and is not the kind of assistance most people long to give, but: give blood at your local blood bank. Less than 10% of Americans do it and there are shortages annually. Though it won't go to the Boston victims, your blood donation will help people facing all kinds of medical crisis.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


anti-gun-control fanatic(s) maybe?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Sarin gas attacks were done by a well-organized cult, Aum Shinrikyo.
posted by emjaybee at 6:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Eric Rudolph, the guy who "bombed" the '96 Olympics in Atlanta was neither of these. I guess if he was in any group it would be "crazy guys".

Not sure what's with the quotes around the word bombed. That son of a bitch bombed Atlanta and then bombed an abortion clinic just a few miles from where I live.
posted by ndfine at 6:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]



some poorly educated dude who has seen the aftermath of 9-11/has been led to unreasonable fear because of it is not my idea of a target of ridicule, and the internet is not your personal army

That was a press event that presumably requires some credentials to attend.

And, sure, I agree about the post 9/11 world, but you could make a case that if the people really wanted to not be subjected to pornoscans and border searches 50 miles from the border, they'd elect people who would make that stop. Hell, it's been over 10 years.

The larger point I'm driving to is that calling this a false flag, or that 9/11 truther BS, is the most pointless and stupidly unamerican thing going. It deserves to be mocked, and people who promulgate that idiocy along with it.

I just got an email asking if I was going to volunteer to help with the marathon here again this year. I can't this year, unfortunately, and now I am really sorry I won't be able to.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:38 PM on April 15, 2013


We also have the '85 Air India bombing which was Sikh separatists and the '95 Sarin gas attacks in the Tokyo subway which was organized religious crazy people.

Except the 'Islamist radicals and right wing extremists' comment was about people bombing crowds in the US. I mean, you'd have to have a pretty narrow view to think that covered all terrorism. It does cover an awful lot of (all?) bombings in the US in, say, the last 25 years.
posted by hoyland at 6:39 PM on April 15, 2013


The Boston NPR station keeps reporting it as being investigated as a "potential case of terrorism." Like if it's not done by brown people from the Middle East it isn't terrorism?

From their website, "The FBI defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives."" They're not calling it terrorism because they don't have proof that it is, in fact, terrorism. It probably is. But they can't say that until they know.
posted by Auguris at 6:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


@runchat is asking people to wear Boston race colors or a running shirt tomorrow. I ran my first marathon last year, I am wearing the shirt to work. My wife is doing the same; she ran her first 26.2 a few months before I did mine. My son (will be 4 in a month) is running his second ever race this weekend, and I have his first race shirt laid out for him to wear tomorrow as well. He has no idea what happened in Boston. But when he does his run, this one or any other, the only thing that will keep me from being at the finish line waiting for him is if I am running next to him. As long as I am able to be there, I will be. Fuck anyone who takes our love and support for friends and family and tries to use it against us.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Yeah this. The Boston NPR station keeps reporting it as being investigated as a "potential case of terrorism." Like if it's not done by brown people from the Middle East it isn't terrorism?

No, like if it wasn't politically motivated it wasn't terrorism. The Aurora or Newtown shootings may have killed more people without being terrorism.
posted by Jahaza at 6:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


I started a new job a few months ago and my company's office is on the corner of Boylston and Exeter which puts my building almost exactly between the two explosions. I worked from home today because I could, thank god.

For those of you who don't know Boston geography, the finish line of the marathon runs across Boylston street and essentially ends at the Boston Public Library. My first week at the job I got off the T and was taking in the sights of my new surroundings when I noticed for the first time the inscription on the North side of the library (about 100 feet from the finish line and right above many of the spectator stands.)

The inscription reads:
THE COMMONWEALTH REQUIRES THE EDUCATION OF THE PEOPLE AS THE SAFEGUARD OF ORDER AND LIBERTY
A month ago I read that and it left an impression on me. "That's a fucking badass quote" is basically what ran through my mind. Today that quotation is more important than ever, in ways I have yet to process. Those words are three stories high and looked down on the chaos and horror that took place this afternoon. We know nothing about the people behind this, but I think we can all agree this was an assault on Order and Liberty.

In America, assaults of this sort have not traditionally resulted in calls of greater education for the people and I fear for order and liberty a little bit right now. Let us hope that this message, carved in stone roughly 120 years ago, is heeded by our political representatives.
posted by jeremias at 6:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [145 favorites]


I live near Boston, but I am on vacation in NC right now. This whole event is so surreal. My mind is at home and I have to keep jerking it back to happy vacation thoughts. My teenagers were very mopey and quiet tonight and we just stayed in at the vacation rental and watched movies. Tomorrow we are supposed to go to Andy Griffith's hometown and I think I will institute a "no news" policy while we are there. Maybe the simple small town life will be a balm for us.
My thoughts are with all of you back home.
posted by Biblio at 6:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Except the 'Islamist radicals and right wing extremists' comment was about people bombing crowds in the US. I mean, you'd have to have a pretty narrow view to think that covered all terrorism. It does cover an awful lot of (all?) bombings in the US in, say, the last 25 years.

The Aurora guy had his apartment booby trapped to blow. The Columbine shooters also attempted bombings but they mostly failed to work. Crazy People/non-political mass murderers have attempted bombings. It's just that it's hard to pull off compared to just pointing and shooting.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Guardian's live blog has paused for the evening, with a roundup and summary of events and reactions.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013


Rudolph was an abortion clinic bomber and was enabled by antichoice types sympathetic to his cause. He is still lionized by many of them, and of course, violence against clinics continues.

Sorry to be pedantic but "random outburst of insanity" was not the operating factor in those cases. Terrorism, in both of those cases, was the clear intent and political impact was part of that.

Just ask any doctors who perform abortions and who have been targeted how random it feels.

We don't know much about this case; now we are up to 7 bombs, 5 unexploded, per the Wall Street Journal.
posted by emjaybee at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


I was at my company's Boston office last week, only a few blocks from Copley. I am old now but my dorm at Wellesley was right at the half way point of the marathon- I volunteered and was out there cheering when I was at school. So heartbreaking.
posted by lyra4 at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013


GuyZero: " Islamist radicals and right-wing extremists

Eric Rudolph, the guy who "bombed" the '96 Olympics in Atlanta was neither of these. I guess if he was in any group it would be "crazy guys"."

Eric Rudolph bombed the Olympics because he thought they promoted global socialism, and to protest abortion and homosexuality. What part of that is not "right-wing extremism"?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


The government seems to have some criteria for terrorism concerning involvement of organized political groups. In this incident, for example, where the perpetrator repeatedly claimed that his motive was to avenge the deaths of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Bush administration declined to prosecute the crime as a terrorist attack. I think this is because it was the action of a lone person.
posted by thelonius at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


US Code definitions for each species of terrorism, including domestic
posted by nickyskye at 6:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


The correct way to handle the perpetrator is damnatio memoriae.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]


jeremias: Another cool BPL trivia bit: The Boston Public Library is made of the same stone as the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. (Milford pink granite from Milford, MA, very close to Hopkinton, where the marathon starts.)
posted by rmd1023 at 6:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


"Dead eight year old. Get a grip people."

Our first and strongest thoughts should be for the victims, and certainly any speculation about the perpetrator(s) is at this point far more provocative than it is useful ... but insofar as anastasiav is correct that this was most likely intended as a political message of some sort, then the politics and groups associated with those politics is certainly relevant.

Again, given the total lack of information available about this, the speculation is at present unhelpful and unduly provocative. But given that this is a terrorist attack almost certainly motivated by a particular politics and intended to send a corresponding message, then of course the nature of those politics and that message is going to be of intense interest to people. Caring about that isn't a sign of moral deficiency.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [14 favorites]


WSJ: Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Thinking of what it might have been like for madamjujujive's niece, a nurse in that tent at the Boston marathon: First person account of medical personnel ready for sporting event suddenly confronting traumatic casualties.
posted by nickyskye at 6:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


We don't know much about this case; now we are up to 7 bombs, 5 unexploded, per the Wall Street Journal.

Deadly Blasts Rock Boston (wsj.com)

For clarity, the important line.......
"Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs."
posted by lampshade at 6:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Eric Rudolph also bombed a lesbian bar and a couple abortion clinics, and his statement describing why he bombed the Olympics, while strictly saying that the direct reason was to protest abortion, also mentioned that the "despicable" purpose of the Olympics was to promote socialism. I think that saying he is not a right wing extremist is mistaken.
posted by Flunkie at 6:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Try this color:

Dead eight year old. Get a grip people.

What would you like us to get a grip on, splunge? The fact that an eight year old died? Yes, that is horrible and I, for one, don't want to dwell on that too much because there is nothing that I can do about it except say that it is a bad thing, and that is pretty trite.

I've read this whole thread and there have been many attempts to try and steer the conversation in a certain direction-- to try and limit what people write and think about. It's human. There has been this horrible thing, you can't do anything constructive, so you attempt to take charge of the situation by dictating where and how the conversation goes.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of information being released at the moment and all of the helpful links have been posted (and reposted.) So we are left with anecdotes and old essays and responses to other posts. I'm no expert on North Korea but I've read more about them than most people so I do have an opinion.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


The Globe is reporting three other devices as "disarmed". Does anyone know if they were destroyed, or literally disarmed? If the latter, it's great news in that a) they didn't go off, and b) they'll be excellent clues to the perpetrators.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:50 PM on April 15, 2013


@jeremias: 711 Boylston / 33 Exeter?
posted by (parenthetic me) at 6:50 PM on April 15, 2013


I just saw this photo of the MIT Green Building tonight, with it's Boston-facing side lit up like an American flag. The building is right across the river from the marathon finish line.
posted by leslietron at 6:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


But given that this is a terrorist attack almost certainly motivated by a particular politics and intended to send a corresponding message, then of course the nature of those politics and that message is going to be of intense interest to people. Caring about that isn't a sign of moral deficiency.

Right, but can we wait for that discussion until we have an actual motive or message identified? This rampant speculation is useless given that the actual facts available are about zero.
posted by sonika at 6:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's really pissing me off that the news (at least WBZ) keeps running the same scroll text even after they keep running statements from officials that contradict the text.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:51 PM on April 15, 2013


.
posted by thewalledcity at 6:52 PM on April 15, 2013


I'm hearing back from friends and family who are still in Boston. I have a friend who hit a PR and finished early. I have a friend who has mono and had to miss the marathon. I have a good friend from undergrad with severe hearing loss from the explosions while she was waiting for someone at the finish line, so she'll be in the hospital overnight. I'm wishing I was back in New England instead of the middle of Ohio.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:54 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Rumple: "I'd be really surprised if the perpetrator was anti-running or somehow against marathons. Does running next year really send a message?"

Yes. It sends the message, "We will not be intimidated, we will not be cowed, we will not be pushed around by your actions. Fuck you."
posted by Chrysostom at 6:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


WSJ: Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.

Can anyone explain the technical distinction? What makes a thing-made-to-blow-up not a bomb?

(Yes, I realise there are, say, grenades, which blow up and aren't really what we'd think of as bombs, but you get the idea.)
posted by hoyland at 6:58 PM on April 15, 2013


I take it to mean that they found something that was initially suspicious in the out-of-an-abundance-of-caution mindset but turned out to just be a bundle of wires and someone's hobby project or something innocuous.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hoyland...i think a suspect device might be something like a junk tv left out for the trash...so not a bomb at all but suspect because they are checking everything???
posted by OHenryPacey at 6:59 PM on April 15, 2013


"Right, but can we wait for that discussion until we have an actual motive or message identified? This rampant speculation is useless given that the actual facts available are about zero."

Agreed.

I think it's fair to ask people to be sympathetic to other people's sensibilities, particularly of those like yourself for whom this is very close.

But I think that there should be some generosity in the other direction, too, in that — as a few have already said — when this sort of tragedy happens, it's just human nature for people to express all sorts of things to each other, including speculation about the whys and hows, and it's not because they're uncaring or intending to provoke (well, most people, anyway) but because they are caring and upset and this is just what people do in groups when this stuff happens.

It's like ... I don't know. For example, a certain kind of personality in these sorts of situations gets angry and, in being angry, can be unintentionally provocative to people around them. But being angry back at them for being angry is really not productive. I think it's possible to gently redirect discussion away from things that tend to upset people and be disruptive. Being judgmental of other people's reactions, even when those reactions are provocative, just sort of makes things worse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


.
.
.
Today I've been following the New York Times Lede live blog, and the Boston Globe on Twitter, and that's it. I couldn't wait to get home and read Metafilter - I almost never comment here, but this place feels like home on the internet to me. Because I know I can read the comments and remember there are still decent people on the intarwebs, and while I may be filled with the fiery rage of a thousand suns by the articles I read, it won't be because of the people in the comments thread.

So thank you, denizens of Metafilter, for that small mercy.
posted by skycrashesdown at 7:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [18 favorites]


Can anyone explain the technical distinction? What makes a thing-made-to-blow-up not a bomb?

My impression was that they weren't actually made to blow up. Perhaps they were inert decoys, or perhaps there was some perfectly innocent reason for, say, containers filled with suspicious-looking non-explosive substances to be there.
posted by acb at 7:00 PM on April 15, 2013


WSJ: Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.

Translation: we saw some lunchbox or backpack with nobody claiming it and it looked funny so we blew it up. Upon investigation of the remains we found bits of a PB&J sandwich.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [11 favorites]


Stories of Kindness After the Bombing
posted by youandiandaflame at 7:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


When you have the Yankees officially hearting the Red Sox, you know shit has gotten real.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [52 favorites]


There's a reason that the NYPost and the WSJ are so incredibly quick to be wrong. These are institutions that maximize ad revenue, not journalistic accuracy or integrity.

This is a feature and not a bug of these institutions.
posted by allen.spaulding at 7:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Ah, I totally misread and thought they were saying things that had blown up were somehow not bombs.
posted by hoyland at 7:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Police Have Video of Suspect Dropping Bombs in Trash Cans

"Of the 23,326 who started the marathon, 17,584 finished; 4,496 did not. The last crossed finish line at 2:57 p.m."
posted by nickyskye at 7:04 PM on April 15, 2013


So we are left with anecdotes and old essays and responses to other posts.

Yup. And just about every person who is talking about this, whether they be online or on TV, are in that not-so-exclusive club of "People Who Are Not In The Know".

And the "experts" who are feeding us this info (whether it be on TV or other media) could be better described as "Experts Not Currently Employed By The BPD, FBI, DHS or Other Involved Agency". They are as uninformed as anyone else but have the singular advantage of a camera crew working with them. For the rest of us, we may as well try to draw comparisons to potatoes for what that is worth because as soon as the real story comes (trickles) out, all this speculation will be for naught.

Information will come eventually. Answers will come eventually. A bit of patience will serve people well.....if in the least for their short term anxiety over this entire, horrible event.
posted by lampshade at 7:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


Police Have Video of Suspect Dropping Bombs in Trash Cans


I'd be very careful with trusting any info you get from Dim Jim Hoft.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:07 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


quit flipping interrupting the doctor.
posted by royalsong at 7:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]



I'd be very careful with trusting any info you get from Dim Jim Hoft.

Especially if the only source cited is Rupert Murdoch's tabloid in Queensland, Australia (sort of the Australian equivalent of Arizona or Mississippi, politically speaking).
posted by acb at 7:09 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


This made me laugh roll my eyes: Bill O'Reilly says Obama made a mistake calling it a tragedy "
President Obama promised justice, the host noted, “but he made one mistake.” He “called the attack a tragedy,” O’Reilly said. “It was not. It was a vile act of violence, designed to kill innocent people, including children…This makes me sick.”

King added that “there’s no doubt in my mind that this is a terrorist attack.” While we don’t have all the facts, and officials haven’t said who is responsible for the attack, King said we need to be looking at al Qaeda, or at least an offshoot of the organization.

Furthermore, the incident had the same m.o. as the 9/11 attacks, O’Reilly asserted — as King urged we use the attack as a wake-up to ensure we stay vigilant and aggressive in monitoring threats.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:14 PM on April 15, 2013


Does running next year really send a message?

Terrorism fails if we refuse to be terrified.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [28 favorites]


"Right, but can we wait for that discussion until we have an actual motive or message identified? This rampant speculation is useless given that the actual facts available are about zero."

You keep repeating that and trying to railroad the discussion in global medium to suit your specific needs. While understandable, it's intrinsically unfair and belittling to those who are not upset in the exact same way that you are.

I'm sorry you're experiencing pain and terror and wish it would be easier for you. But please do not attempt to deny others a method to cope with their own pain and terror.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


> This made me laugh roll my eyes: "Bill O'Reilly says Obama made a mistake calling it a tragedy "

Stop trolling, Bill. Seriously. Keep it to the internet.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:16 PM on April 15, 2013



Less Than Four Hours After Boston Bombings, There’s a Theory For Whatever You Want
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


So all the Murdoch owned outlets (The NY Post, etc.) are doing their usual business of muddying the waters, feeding conspiracy rumors and carrying out egregiously irresponsible journalism, eh? Jesus.

Sorry, but the way the various media outlets are running around, publishing all these horrific images of the wounded without any regard for the dignity or right of refusal of the victims and then snatching up the tiniest rumors and rushing to print with melodramatic misinterpretations of official news is really starting to make me feel sick.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


Thanks, angrycat and folks. I'm wishing there was something more tangible I could do than listen to Dropkick Murphys songs about Boston and try to get work done ... I'm feeling a little isolated. You know, not to make any of this about me, but Boston was the place I imagined I'd be a grownup in, and I wish I could be there to be with other folks who know it instead of being here where it's just the news.
posted by ChuraChura at 7:17 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


It's really pissing me off that the news (at least WBZ) keeps running the same scroll text even after they keep running statements from officials that contradict the text.


You are taking your first step to not taking TV news seriously.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [16 favorites]


Police Have Video of Suspect Dropping Bombs in Trash Cans

This comes from a web site where another story says "Crazy… Obama Won’t Call Boston Marathon Bomb Blasts a Terrorist Attack (Video)". They may end up being right on the first point, but if it's true we'll also hear it from people who aren't horrible.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:19 PM on April 15, 2013


I agree with you that it's an obvious choice for militia-ish groups.

Are there any recent US terror incidents driven by domestic political discontent where the target wasn't an obvious government symbol? Heck, where it wasn't government property that was attacked?

That seems like a major difference between today and OKC, and while it's certainly possible that there's symbology the perps saw as significant that's beyond my threshold of recognition, the speculated date-related stuff seems kindof thin to me.
posted by weston at 7:21 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


.
.
.
?

Hang in there, Boston. Maybe one small comfort: the whole world has seen how many Beantowners ran in to help instead of panicking. Condolences to the families of the dead, and best hopes for the injured -- both physically and emotionally.

As for whoever did this, I don't care about their motives. I just hope they're terrified right now, knowing that at least one of their bombs failed and left a gold mine of evidence.

Thanks, Mefites (especially from the Boston area), for staying pretty level-headed through all this and refusing to be terrorized.
posted by Zimboe Metamonkey at 7:21 PM on April 15, 2013


Having been on the periphery of both, this feels awful, but quite quite different from 9/11. That might just be me. It's most disturbing that we have absolutely no concept why this happened; on 9/11, by this time, we knew what was what.
posted by Miko at 7:22 PM on April 15, 2013


Brandon Blatcher: The problem is, all this speculation can have consequences. Crowds with the wrong ideas have been known to kill the wrong people in retaliation. Once a certain set of consensus ideas about what the truth is takes hold, if it later turns out to have been wrong, boom--new conspiracy theories are born.

We often act as if our words are consequence free, as if speech wasn't also a form of action. But the truth is, what we need now is clarity, so there isn't more confusion. Speech, like any other freedom, comes with responsibilities. We should just try to be careful. And hell, it's mostly been the people closest to these events that have been the ones to say they don't appreciate all the confusing speculation and off-the-cuff remarks.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:23 PM on April 15, 2013 [15 favorites]


O’Reilly said: “It was not [a tragedy]. It was a vile act of violence, designed to kill innocent people, including children"

Splitting hairs for political gain? Fuck you, BillO.
posted by notsnot at 7:23 PM on April 15, 2013


> Maybe O'Reilly was talking about the Greek use of the word tragedy and it shouldn't be used except in that sense, where you have the fatal flaw and the Aristotelian catharsis and all of that.

When I would have raised such objections, I was in high school. This is a hell of a doubt to extend to a grown man.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:24 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Scientific American: Two IEDs were detonated near the race’s finish line. An expert explains how they work and how they can lead investigators back to the bomb makers
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Maybe O'Reilly was talking about the Greek use of the word tragedy and it shouldn't be used except in that sense, where you have the fatal flaw and the Aristotelian catharsis and all of that.

You give him too much credit. The man is an ass.
posted by trip and a half at 7:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Crowds with the wrong ideas have been known to kill the wrong people in retaliation.

Come off it. This is stupid and laughably so. No-one is calling for a hangin' - and calming fears (North Korea?) seems to be the actual result, not mass-hysteria.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


What makes a thing-made-to-blow-up not a bomb?

Defusing it, primarily.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:29 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


nickyskye, thank you for posting that article.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


When I would have raised such objections, I was in high school. This is a hell of a doubt to extend to a grown man.

You give him too much credit. The man is an ass.

You guys, I'm pretty sure angrycat was being sarcastic. Making with the snarking. Hamburger. Like that.
posted by rtha at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Seems like extra helicopter activity tonight in DC. One just buzzed by my building going super fast.
posted by zennie at 7:30 PM on April 15, 2013


This is stupid and laughably so. No-one is calling for a hangin' - and calming fears (North Korea?) seems to be the actual result, not mass-hysteria.

I just meant that as one example of how hysterical speculation can actually lead to harm. It's not ridiculous at all. During the WWII era, whole neighborhoods sometimes erupted into violence directed at local Japanese Americans. The point is not that this specifically might happen, but that there can be serious consequences for real people when people just shoot of their mouths to say whatever happens to pop into their idiot heads in the moment.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


You're welcome mjjj. Worried about you all afternoon.
posted by nickyskye at 7:31 PM on April 15, 2013


Ross Douthat: Keep Calm and Carry On
posted by BobbyVan at 7:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Speculation online often leads to stuff like posting social media accounts about the wrong people or directing blame at groups like the Tea Party when a perpetrator turns out to have nothing to do with them. It's not a hanging but it's not harmless.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


No one is seriously afraid, as far as I can tell, that this had anything to do with North Korea. And again, there have been several calls in this thread from people who are actually in proximity to these events to stop the speculation. Call me an asshole for this if you like, but it seems to me there's less harm in extending them the courtesy than not.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A huge part of the experience of 9/11, for me, was how it reshaped the physical landscape of the city practically instantaneously. Not to be trite, but downtown NYC has literally not been the same ever since. There are locations I spent enormous amounts of time in which stopped existing over the course of a single morning.

But in a way that was sort of....bizarrely comforting? Like, at least the changed landscape of my city mirrored the changes in how I felt as a person living in it. Even now, all I have to do to be reassured that something Big and Terrible happened here is to walk down past City Hall and look. I never felt crazy for taking as long as I did to feel normal again, because the city itself was so broken for so long.

I wonder how it will feel for my friends in the Back Bay -- and for me, honestly, when I have a chance to go there again -- to walk down Boylston a couple weeks from now and have it look almost exactly the same as it did before this happened.

Ugh, sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I was only a college kid in 2001. It's hard for me to unpack all the ways that day kind of messed me up.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


That Scientific American link is really, really interesting.
posted by Miko at 7:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Are there any recent US terror incidents driven by domestic political discontent where the target wasn't an obvious government symbol? Heck, where it wasn't government property that was attacked?

There was the (failed) MLK Jr parade bombing in 2011. It's really hard to determine this because lists of domestic terrorist incidents are not well-kept, for many reasons (the definition of terrorism seems nebulous, for one). I also think it's hard to separate political discontent from other motivations for domestic terrorist attacks.
posted by muddgirl at 7:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


> You guys, I'm pretty sure angrycat was being sarcastic. Making with the snarking. Hamburger. Like that.

Yeah, yeah. I was pretty sure, too, but I didn't stop myself. Foot, mouth, you two know each other already.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: The problem is, all this speculation can have consequences. Crowds with the wrong ideas have been known to kill the wrong people in retaliation. Once a certain set of consensus ideas about what the truth is takes hold, if it later turns out to have been wrong, boom--new conspiracy theories are born.

This sounds weirdly like one should never, ever speculate, which is ridiculous idea. No one here is calling for "death to (insert group here)". Those who crowds that choose to retaliate are thinking individuals that are making their own wrong headed decisions. It's doubtful that speculation on Metafilter is going to do much to sway them one way or the other.

And hell, it's mostly been the people closest to these events that have been the ones to say they don't appreciate all the confusing speculation and off-the-cuff remarks.

I have family in Boston, who run marathons and are police officers, so now is it ok if I speculate?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:37 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


I have a dumb question: Where did all the wheelchairs come from, that wounded people are being wheeled away on in the photos right after the explosions? Are they in the medical tent because so many runners collapse, or do ambulances carry them, or ... ?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:37 PM on April 15, 2013


Seems like extra helicopter activity tonight in DC.

Obviously everything's going to be on a high state of alert. What's that old Terrorism colour scheme? Things're probably at condition tangerine or some such.

Thinking about it now, it's kind of funny that Obama didn't mention anything like that in his little presser.
posted by Trochanter at 7:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Are they in the medical tent because so many runners collapse

Yes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


They have them at the ready because runners collapse. But also, people in large crowds collapse. There's always a handful of people who get sunstroke or hypothermia or a heart attack who are just in the crowd at a major event. It's standard to have a bunch of wheelchairs at any big gathering.
posted by Miko at 7:39 PM on April 15, 2013


No--we should consider evidence and speculate when we have some.

It's uninformed, emotionally-driven speculation that's dangerous and I can't believe any grown human being hasn't had enough experience with the damages that can cause not to see that.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


it's kind of funny that Obama didn't mention anything like that in his little presser.

We stopped using it. Shows about how useful it ever freaking was.
posted by Miko at 7:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]



I have a dumb question: Where did all the wheelchairs come from, that wounded people are being wheeled away on in the photos right after the explosions? Are they in the medical tent because so many runners collapse, or do ambulances carry them, or ... ?

The races I have volunteered for always had a bunch for people who collapsed or had other injuries. I imagine a race as large as the Boston Marathon had a very well stocked medical tent available - that probably contributed to the low (apparent) death rate given the severity of the injuries.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:40 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: Maybe we can move meta-discussion about whether it's okay to speculate over to the open MetaTalk thread, and reserve this thread for signal about the event itself?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


I have a regular appointment in the Back Bay area, and afterwards I always walk back through Copley and the Pru and skim books in the BPL. My meeting this week was at 3 PM today, but this morning I last-minute cancelled my appointment because I didn't want to deal with the marathon-related traffic. I'm not certain how to feel right now. My poor city.

One of my coworkers reports that Google Person Finder is unfortunately getting trolled with fake deceased notices -- those using it for information may want to take it with a grain of salt.
posted by angst at 7:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


WBC says they'll protest the funerals.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:41 PM on April 15, 2013


Where did all the wheelchairs come from, that wounded people are being wheeled away on in the photos right after the explosions? Are they in the medical tent because so many runners collapse, or do ambulances carry them, or ... ?

Probably they were in the tent. If you have runners with leg injuries, or someone falls and breaks something, after you stabilize their spine (if they fell) and treat them for whatever, you want to keep them off that leg. But I'm just guessing, based on the fact that our ambulances don't carry wheelchairs. (Generally speaking, when ambulances show up on scene, we either let you walk to the ambulance yourself if we think you're capable, put you on the cot so we can poke at you, or strap you to a backboard to keep you totally still in case of spinal injury. There's not a lot of first responder scenarios where you'd want a wheelchair, and anyway, there isn't space in the back for an occupied wheelchair or a ramp to use to get the wheelchair back in the truck.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 7:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


One of my coworkers reports that Google Person Finder is unfortunately getting trolled with fake deceased notices

OH COME ON WHAT.

...yeah, that's it for me. I'm off to bed, with the blankets up over my head.
posted by theatro at 7:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [6 favorites]


There's not a lot of first responder scenarios where you'd want a wheelchair

Meanwhile at events they're great. In addition to using them with injured runners, if someone's just gassed out and needs to drink some water and sit in the shade, they're perfect - just get them in the seat and park them in the tent to wait it out. They can sort of help organize the space.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on April 15, 2013


WBC says they'll protest the funerals.


Well, duh. This goes without saying, they insert themselves into the conversation after every American tragedy. Why are we even paying attention to these people anymore by mentioning them?
posted by SkylitDrawl at 7:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [17 favorites]


There was the (failed) MLK Jr parade bombing in 2011.

That definitely works as a not-government-property example. But it's still pretty easy to see what's under attack (state recognition of MLK), and why some parties (racists/racial supremacists) would attack it.

I guess what I'm having trouble with is parsing any such politics out of today's attack. What would the marathon represent, and who would be its antagonists?
posted by weston at 7:46 PM on April 15, 2013


One of my coworkers reports that Google Person Finder is unfortunately getting trolled with fake deceased notices

> OH COME ON WHAT.

...yeah, that's it for me. I'm off to bed, with the blankets up over my head.

Same. I think I've had enough evil, great and petty, for one day.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:47 PM on April 15, 2013


ABC News' Terry Moran: "#Boston police officer tells me bombs were packed with small metal objects meant to maim--nails, zippers, blades."

Evil.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The FBI wants pictures, video and tips. "No piece of information or detail is too small."
posted by nickyskye at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I guess what I'm having trouble with is parsing any such politics out of today's attack. What would the marathon represent, and who would be its antagonists?

Terrorism doesn't need a particularly sane reason. It could be because it the final day to file taxes in the US or related to the Oklahoma bombings, which were related to the Waco, Texas siege. It could be because people figured out that the marathon was an easy target. Since no group has taken credit for it, I'm wondering if it's domestic terrorists trying to make a point.

But ultimately, the point is to make people scared to go about their regular lives. That's why it's important to no let that happen, while obviously taking precautions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


.

My heart aches for the family and friends of those killed and injured. Runners and spectators enjoying the day, celebrating being alive, and now this. I can only hope this is the end of it, and there are no more explosions.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:56 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: A few comments deleted; Aqua Teen jokes can please wait for another day.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


This NBC News montage is completely terrifying.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:56 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I guess what I'm having trouble with is parsing any such politics out of today's attack. What would the marathon represent, and who would be its antagonists?

It needn't represent anything other than a large group of people milling about. Granted, I've kind of been socialised to think the whole point of terrorism (whether actual bombings or just threats) is to take credit for it and thus show how powerful you are, which hasn't happened here.
posted by hoyland at 7:57 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


There was the (failed) MLK Jr parade bombing in 2011.

That was the subject of the previous thread I mentioned earlier.
posted by homunculus at 8:04 PM on April 15, 2013


the CBC was interviewing a retired FBI official, w

Do you have a link? Been listening to our NPR affiliate since 3 PM, have not yet heard an interview that good, unless maybe it was the general one with the woman that authored a couple books on terrorism.
posted by Miko at 8:06 PM on April 15, 2013


Carlos Arredondo's account.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [20 favorites]


> the problem for that poor 8 year old is that his chest was about knee high to an adult

I don't know why I'm being bugged by this small, irrelevant statement, but anyway: an eight-year-old's chest is not knee high to an adult unless he's in Family Circus or there's some detail I don't know because I'm avoiding the news anywhere other than here. An eight-year-old's chest is probably right around the level of your waist.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I guess what I'm having trouble with is parsing any such politics out of today's attack. What would the marathon represent, and who would be its antagonists?

One possibility is that this is a sovereign citizen/army of God/prepper who has drunk deep of conspiracy theories and who believes a single major public event could cause the ZOG/fiat currency/Kenyan Socialism to collapse. Timothy McVeigh certainly believed some of this - that his action would inspire others and cause society to collapse. That the people's eyes will be opened and this somehow loosely ties in to Patriot's day.

That could explain the politics - a toxic brew of far right extremism combined with the Anarchist understanding of the Propaganda of the Deed.
posted by allen.spaulding at 8:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Carlos Arredondo's account.

This guy right here. If I did what he did today helping some of the victims I would be curled in a fucking ball. Let me know is there is a link to donate a shot and a beer for him.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:10 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Would like to see the "retired FBI official" link from CBC also. Interesting that he urges against speculation, yet cites circumstantial "evidence" to point away from Al Qaeda and suggest domestic right-wing terrorists.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:10 PM on April 15, 2013


That Older Man Knocked Down in the Photo
posted by madamjujujive at 8:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Brooklyn Loves Boston.
posted by nickyskye at 8:14 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


One of my coworkers reports that Google Person Finder is unfortunately getting trolled with fake deceased notices -- those using it for information may want to take it with a grain of salt.

You know, if you're life path has led you into some kind of mental sinkhole where you believe you have some kind of logical reason to attack the Boston Marathon with explosives, I sort of pity you, even as I deplore you for the harm that you do.

But going onto Google person finder and putting fake death notices up after a tragedy like this? FUCK YOU!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:15 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


The Times is providing unlimited access to http://nytimes.com and mobile apps until 12:01 a.m. ET 4/16/13.
posted by nickyskye at 8:17 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: A few comments deleted; the Patriots Day, Waco, tax day etc angles, and the false flag angle, and the revenge-for-drones angle, are all broached upthread, but again let's maybe try to keep the signal high in here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:19 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


For BostonMarathon, contact your friends and family for free via your browser at http://callyourfamily.twilio.ly/ . Keep cell lines clear.
posted by nickyskye at 8:21 PM on April 15, 2013


What does a 78 year old man do when he's just been blown to the ground by a bomb? He gets up and finishes the race.
Bill Iffrig of Lake Stevens, Washington, you are awesome in all the ways.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:25 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


The fact that no one is claiming responsibility is the weirdest thing to me. My money is on a lone nutter.
posted by rosswald at 8:26 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


The Big Picture at Boston.com is up. You have been warned: NFSW / NSFL
Link (might be slow)
posted by nostrada at 8:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


.
posted by rougy at 8:27 PM on April 15, 2013


The fact that no one is claiming responsibility is the weirdest thing to me. My money is on a lone nutter.


That and the number of dud devices do point in that direction.
posted by ocschwar at 8:29 PM on April 15, 2013


I didn't hear about this until I got home today, having spent the day in Manhattan with my visiting sister and her four little kids, talking about 9/11 and such for some reason, and then taking a leisurely stroll past the WTC memorial on my way to the subway. I was in NYC when that happened. It all feels kind of distant now.

I don't know what this means or why I feel it's worth saying it, but while I'm upset as hell about all of this, it somehow never crossed my mind today to feel afraid. I don't know if I'm deadened to it or what, but there that is.

So to all those who would do something like this, condemn your humanity for whatever purpose in such a way, here's an anecdotal piece of evidence for you: it no longer works, if it ever did. I am distraught by your actions, but I am not afraid.

Best wishes and hopes for all the best for everyone in Boston and everyone with friends and loved ones in Boston.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:30 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


There seems to be a strong possibility that the "number of dud devices" is equal to zero.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:31 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


False flag guy was Dan Bidondi of Infowars.

Can we sic Anonymous on him?

...Mater and PaterCallipygos are fine - they were indeed still on the Cape, and in fact my father scoffed at the very idea that they might even consider going to Boston on Marathon Day ("do you KNOW what the driving would be like?") and the whole time I was worried where they were, they were engaged in their Monday ritual of "volunteer at the local soup kitchen and then hit the local Italian Restaurant" way out in East Sandwich. Whew.

Blessedly, too, my father began his call by making a corny joke. If my daddy is cracking jokes, my corner of the world is normal.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


The main story on the bombing from the NPR homepage seems a bit hacked at the moment. (Screen)
posted by Drinky Die at 8:33 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


>: "Most cellphone-controlled bombs are set to go off in the event of a (sustained) lack of service. "

That's a much more sophisticated bomb than one that just wires the detonator relay through the vibrate motor of a phone.

>: "There's no question that this was an intentional attack, by someone reasonably skilled in explosives. Setting up bombs that rip the legs off people at a marathon? I don't think that was coincidence. And, of course, the problem for that poor 8 year old is that his chest was about knee high to an adult. "

The average 8 year old is 4 feet high; their chests are not at knee level.
posted by Mitheral at 8:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Large police presence in Revere connected to Boston bombing
REVERE, Mass. (MyFoxBoston.com) – A law enforcement source tells Fox 25 that a large police presence at a home in Revere is related to the Boston Marathon bombings.

The source said that a suspicious driver was pulled over by Revere police after driving past the State Police barracks a number of times.

The driver reportedly had a "nervous demeanor."

The driver then led police, as well as the FBI, to a home in the area of Ocean Avenue and Beach Street.

It was not immediately known what police were searching for at the home. Three people died and more than 100 were injured after bombs went off within 100 yards of each other near the finish line of the Boston Marathon Monday afternoon.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:35 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


The WSJ has suggested that there may not be any dud devices. The things identified as duds may just have been suspicious packages that were swept up and initially misidentified.
posted by humanfont at 8:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Boston, taxes, April 15, tea parties. I think it's quite easy to draw a straight line to right-wing domestic terrorism.

I get the peripheral timing-related symbolism. It's just so weird to me that the actual target was a *sport* institution instead of an IRS office or a federal or capitol building. Or even a bank or university or newspaper office or public school or something that some people clearly hate.

But if there's one thing we Americans clearly don't hate -- and every American knows this -- it's sports. We love 'em. For individualists, we sure seem to find tribal sports sexier, so running's not exactly the highest of the high, but it seems to be a significant sport nonetheless. I'd bet every county in the US has at least one big community race, and every state probably has multiple distance running events. It doesn't seem highly politicized either: among my running friends there are both crazed conservatives and moonbat liberals, as well as those indifferent to politics and/or methodical about policy, so it doesn't exactly represent "those people".

Picking a significant sporting like this as a target in the US just seems so damn tone deaf and stupid.

I recognize we're already talking about an evil act that indicates corroded thinking somewhere, so further corrosion seems not particularly amazing, but that's what makes me lean towards the idea that this is more pure crazy and less would-be political-strategic crazy.
posted by weston at 8:35 PM on April 15, 2013


Oh Gourd, it's the little details that get me. Pic #28 in the Big Picture post linked above shows parents with a stroller. Very, very few people would notice this, but the stroller has a purple monkey tag on it. That tag is from Isis, a local parenting center in the Pru where my son would have had playgroup today.

Oh my poor city.
posted by sonika at 8:36 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


REVERE, Mass. (MyFoxBoston.com) – A law enforcement source tells Fox 25 that a large police presence at a home in Revere is related to the Boston Marathon bombings.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:38 PM on April 15, 2013


Runner's video of the explosion.
posted by nickyskye at 8:39 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


It's just so weird to me that the actual target was a *sport* institution instead of an IRS office or a federal or capitol building.

Sporting events have large crowds of people that are in concentrated places that are less secure. Getting a bomb into a federal building is hard, a regular building, not so much.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


that the actual target was a *sport* institution instead of an IRS office

There were bound to be way more cameras pointed at the finish line of the Marathon than there were at the IRS office. Most things like this are about publicity more than anything else.
posted by bendy at 8:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Instagram pic from a person said to be at the apartment building being searched in Revere showing a bomb squad truck.
posted by humanfont at 8:41 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


There's something simple and reassuring about the runner's video posted by Nickyskye. Running, running, explosion, turn around, keep running but in the other direction...
posted by SemiSophos at 8:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Dear God, please let the Syrian Electronic Army be an ELO tribute band.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [7 favorites]


Today's National (CBC tv evening news program) is here, but I don't know if it will stream outside of Canada. The National archives are here.

Ray Boisvert, a former CSIS officer (not FBI), is interviewed for about three minutes starting just before the 10:00 mark. Among other things, he says that it seems more likely that this was home-grown extremism rather than something state-sponsored because of what the white smoke and other factors suggest about the origins of the explosion. He also said that he was not a forensic explosives expert. He may be a bit of a publicity hound.
posted by maudlin at 8:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's bad symbolism. At least with a football stadium there is the whole American decadence angle that would kind of make sense for an attack. Even a local Post Office would make a better terror target if the person was a crazy libertarian or whatever.

Blowing up a bunch of lanky fit people racing for sport and charity? There is a reason no one is claiming responsibility. Definitely an amateur move.
posted by rosswald at 8:45 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


So confused... looks like an NPR post about the event was hacked:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/15/177349725/syrian-electronic-army-was-here
posted by braksandwich at 8:45 PM on April 15, 2013


Are they in the medical tent because so many runners collapse

Alas, yes.

I watched a fella die at the 12 mile mark at the Detroit Marathon a few years ago. He was only running the half, 13.1 miles, collapsed just feet from my friend's house just before the 12 mile mark. (That was the first year a couple friends ran that race, and since then, my husband has run with them. I feel a little panicky every time they all get together to run, now.)

I am grateful that the major races are so well organized and so well provided with medical personnel, or this could have been so much worse. It seems kind of wrong to say "only three fatalities"...but without such ready access to medical professionals, we may well have been looking at double digits.

My husband and friends are running a half-marathon here in two weeks, it begins and ends on our University campus. I fear that the panic from this incident is going to make every damned race a massive clusterfuck now. I'd like to beat the living shit out of the bomber(s) myself for that.
posted by MissySedai at 8:46 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, they hacked the BBC last month. At least somebody using that name did.
posted by Miko at 8:46 PM on April 15, 2013


.


.


.
posted by 221bbs at 8:47 PM on April 15, 2013


Yep. Just like 911.

Isn't Boston where the wingnuts think all the dirty socialist hippies live?
posted by rougy at 8:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Herald has the Revere story too (can't believe Fox and the Herald are my go-to sources but no one else is reporting on this right now).
posted by Miko at 8:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I have been following this story since I was at work and finally broke down in tears this evening after letting everything soak in. What a tragedy.

When I was 8 years old, I got to run my first major race in the stockyards of Fort Worth, Texas. I had spent several months running after school and on bad weather days we'd work out to Richard Simmons videos in the gym. Richard Simmons came to Fort Worth for the Cowtown Marathon and my child-dream came true when he invited the kids up on stage to do a pre-race warm-up... dancing to the oldies. I ran the 10k that year, and at the end of the race remember the roaring crowds of strangers, race coordinators, friends, and family... the sound of dance music and cowbells when you're ready to crawl across the finish line... and best of all, all the free food!
From that experience on I did the race every year, went to high school and qualified for regionals Cross Country and Track almost every year. An injury and serious physical / mental stress kept me from pursuing a college athletic scholarship. I still ran though, and recently did one of those crazy theme runs that take the stress out of competition.
To this day I hold marathon runners on a 'holier than thou' pedestal, and always admired the Boston Marathon participants as they had to qualify to participate, an insanely amazing feat.
Every runner knows the most inspiring thing in your run are the people on the side lines that are there looking for YOU to come by, sometimes for hours, so that they may greet you with the much needed enthusiasm you need to get to the finish line.

I would love to see some links to help pay for medical expenses / therapy for the people involved in this. It would be my honor to contribute back to the people who helped me through the many races in the past, even complete strangers. Let's focus on this, please.
posted by hillabeans at 8:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


It's just so weird to me that the actual target was a *sport* institution instead of an IRS office or a federal or capitol building.

The target was not the marathon. The target was a large group of civilians gathered in an urban center. The goal was maximum carnage, coverage and chaos. If these are your goals, the marathon is better than the ball game because the security in a stadium is tighter than the security in downtown Boston.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:49 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


rougy, also the 'birthplace of the tea party'. At this point I wouldn't be surprised by this scenario, but to tell the goddamn truth I think my facilities of shock and surprise have been all tapped out today.
posted by 221bbs at 8:50 PM on April 15, 2013


If anyone's trying to read the Syrian Electronic Army posts that are out there on Twitter, etc., in Arabic, Google Translate isn't doing the job, but this online translator seems to actually work decently enough that you can get the gist.
posted by limeonaire at 8:50 PM on April 15, 2013


It's bad symbolism. At least with a football stadium there is the whole American decadence angle that would kind of make sense for an attack. Even a local Post Office would make a better terror target if the person was a crazy libertarian or whatever.

The Boston Marathon is the second largest single day sporting event, after the Superbowl. It's run on Patriot's Day, commemorating the battle of Lexington and Concord. In Boston, there is no single day that's a bigger deal than Marathon Monday.

Perhaps for outsiders it's hard to see the symbolism, but if the attacker is indeed local - it's not hard to think "If I want to make this about BOSTON, how would I do it best?" and come up with the Marathon as your answer.
posted by sonika at 8:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [9 favorites]


Interesting to see the agencies at the Revere apartment complex (from the Herald report).
Boston police and a cadre of federal officials descended on an Ocean Avenue apartment complex in Revere last night.

In addition to two Boston Police K-9 units and a bomb squad unit, a large contingent of federal agents from the FBI, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as well as Homeland Security investigations and state police had assembled at the two buildings.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:51 PM on April 15, 2013


rougy, also the 'birthplace of the tea party'. At this point I wouldn't be surprised by this scenario, but to tell the goddamn truth I think my facilities of shock and surprise have been all tapped out today.

I hear ya. I think this is going to be a tough one to catch.
posted by rougy at 8:51 PM on April 15, 2013


Isn't Boston where the wingnuts think all the dirty socialist hippies live?

Oh hell no. Elitist white tower academics, please.

(Srsly, there are no hippies in Boston. Ok, there are like five. Total.)
posted by sonika at 8:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


"It's just so weird to me that the actual target was a *sport* institution instead of an IRS office or a federal or capitol building. ... Picking a significant sporting like this as a target in the US just seems so damn tone deaf and stupid."

For at least a couple of decades, major college football programs have had terror contingency plans for their stadia (and you can absolutely bet the NFL got there first). After 9/11, IIRC, a bunch of big-time college matchups were given no-fly zones during games to prevent light aircraft from crashing into a live-broadcast stadium full of 100,000 people, 30,000 of them college students (and there used to be lots of those little planes carrying word banners around football games). Sporting events are symbolic, beloved, broadcast live, full of people, and -- as these things go -- fairly soft targets.

I know what you mean because bombing a marathon makes me go, "What, you hate people who work really hard at things and have a lot of self-discipline?" But you don't even have to get into a stadium to attack a marathon, and you have 26 miles of route to infiltrate. I won't be surprised if it turns out to be a local Boston-area nutjob (it all seems like an episode of Flashpoint, in the worst possible way), but I won't be super-surprised if it's a non-local attack either.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's why my complete-b.s.-theory is that it is a lone nutter. Probably local.
posted by rosswald at 8:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, I think it looks a lot different to people in Boston than from across the country. The event is iconic, a big deal.

The socialist hippy wingnuts live in Cambridge, silly.
posted by Miko at 8:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


Isn't Boston where the wingnuts think all the dirty socialist hippies live?


I would have said Cambridge...
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:53 PM on April 15, 2013


rougy: "Isn't Boston where the wingnuts think all the dirty socialist hippies live?"

I've heard people using the "Taxachusetts" name for the place without a hint of irony. It seems to mean "Those socialist liberals out there."
posted by barnacles at 8:57 PM on April 15, 2013


Oh, also, it just occurred to me that a link from yesterday's webcam thread might come in handy somehow during all of this: Massachusetts webcams online right now. Thankfully, most everything looks calm on those.
posted by limeonaire at 8:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"The average 8 year old is 4 feet high; their chests are not at knee level."

No, but, sadly, if the blast was in fact more directed along the ground than upwards, then it would be more deadly to the child.

One thing that I noticed when I watched the video of the first explosion was that it seemed to my (ignorant) eye that it was particularly directed perpendicular to and toward the street. I recall thinking that the video would tell an expert quite a lot about where the explosive was positioned, what type it was, and what the bomber intended.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:58 PM on April 15, 2013


(Ah, as would Miko, at the same time. But the two cities are a lot more distinct to their respective residents, I suspect, than in the eyes of the rest of the US.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:58 PM on April 15, 2013


But if I recall correctly, conservatives have a professed affinity for Bostonians picked at random (say, from a phone book).
posted by BobbyVan at 8:59 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


But if there's one thing we Americans clearly don't hate -- and every American knows this -- it's sports.

One would think, and yet, consider the Olympic Park Bombing and the motivations behind that.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Even Cantabridgians joke about the People's Republic, it's only fair. But you're right, most people from away don't make much of a distinction.
posted by Miko at 9:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


In MA, "taxachusetts" is directed at State Government being greedy and has little to nothing to do with hippies (who on MA are associated with the Berkshires, or Cambridge). We use it too. See also, Masshole, which is often self applied with pride.
posted by sonika at 9:00 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sports had nothing to do with this. The target was the crowd, not the race.
posted by vrakatar at 9:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


A friend is flying out of Logan on Tuesday night after 9pm. Any thoughts on whether it's worth going extra early? Also usually it takes me only 20 minutes to go from Somerville to Logan at that hour, but I wonder if it'll take longer.
posted by shortfuse at 9:02 PM on April 15, 2013


I have to fly from there on Wednesday morning, shortfuse. You're right, it's probably going to be extra hassle-y. I haven't heard anything specific yet though.
posted by Miko at 9:03 PM on April 15, 2013


That could explain the politics - a toxic brew of far right extremism combined with the Anarchist understanding of the Propaganda of the Deed.

Oh please oh please oh please do not try and pull us into this. This is fucking despicable.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 9:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


It could have been the race. You never know what some crazy person could fixate on.
posted by humanfont at 9:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Oddly, my hometown paper in NJ just reported that police have a warrant and are searching the Revere apartment building. (Odd because why do they know before the Boston papers, but anyhow).
posted by Miko at 9:04 PM on April 15, 2013


Carlos Arredondo's account.

That man NEEDS A HUG. Someone give that man a hug.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:04 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


Oh please oh please oh please do not try and pull us into this. This is fucking despicable.

Seconded.
posted by jessamyn at 9:05 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think we should all take a moment to thank the mods tonight. I'm sure its a rough and often thankless job, and you all make the Blue look its best, exactly when things get tough.

All our thoughts are with you Boston -
posted by newdaddy at 9:06 PM on April 15, 2013 [40 favorites]


WBZ news is the source.
posted by Miko at 9:06 PM on April 15, 2013


This is fucking despicable

I didn't intend any guilt-by-association and I wish I had removed that adjective. Propeganda of the Deed or something similar is widely adopted by activists who believe the phrase "a diversity of tactics" justifies all sorts of bad behavior. It's not limited to anyone on any particular end of any spectrum: you'll see it from anti-abortion clinic blockades to PETA paint throwers (and the anti-Huntington people who exhumed dead parents of their enemies). The belief that a short display of violence will somehow shock society into suddenly agreeing with a fringe minority, well, that's a position held by far too many fringe minorities...who believe that the reason that the majority doesn't agree with them is because...well you get the point.

To anyone who identifies as non-violent, sorry to have smeared you with an overly broad brush.
posted by allen.spaulding at 9:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Bomb Sniffing Dogs, Spotters on Roofs Before Explosions. "They kept making announcements to the participants do not worry, it's just a training exercise." Sorry if this link has been previously posted.
posted by phaedon at 9:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Bomb sniffing dogs...hmmm...did the crank(s) who did this call the cops and make a bomb threat before detonation?
posted by rougy at 9:22 PM on April 15, 2013


Yes, yes, this has been fueling a lot of tinfoil hat stuff. It has already been posted. Don't people go to major events ever? Don't they see security exercises and dogs?

It's been repeated that there were no advance threats. I don't see any reason yet to doubt that other than the uniformed speculation of people who don't seem to know how to understand this. This is one of the biggest public events in the state - it needs good security.
posted by Miko at 9:22 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm not a tin-foil hat guy, but this wouldn't be the first time that an agency denied something only for us to find out it was true a few weeks later.

That said...can you imagine the scale of disruption that someone could now instigate by making a bomb threat, and only a threat?
posted by rougy at 9:25 PM on April 15, 2013


"Police Leave Revere Apartment", Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo, April 16, 2013, 12:03 AM
posted by ob1quixote at 9:26 PM on April 15, 2013


can you imagine the scale of disruption that someone could now instigate by making a bomb threat, and only a threat?

But that happens with regularity.

this wouldn't be the first time that an agency denied something only for us to find out it was true a few weeks later.

Then we'll find it out in time. There were thousands of people present who saw the drill going down. Only the XC coach from Mobile, Alabama, seems to think that bomb sniffing dogs are unusual at mass events. I withhold my paranoia.
posted by Miko at 9:27 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


rougy: "That said...can you imagine the scale of disruption that someone could now instigate by making a bomb threat, and only a threat."

rougy, I'd suggest that this is already the case. The authorities take bomb threats very seriously, and have for a while, now.
posted by barnacles at 9:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


It does not happen with regularity.
posted by rougy at 9:29 PM on April 15, 2013


Yeah, I go to football games of a major college from time to time, and since Sept 11th, they've had snipers on up on the roof. Bomb sniffing dogs at the Marathon would not surprise me at all.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:30 PM on April 15, 2013


Bomb sniffing dogs...hmmm...did the crank(s) who did this call the cops and make a bomb threat before detonation?

Bomb sniffing dogs and snipers are standard issue crowd security these days. You'll see them at parades and protest marches as well.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:32 PM on April 15, 2013


First: I'm grateful for the turbulent harmony of the stream of comments thus far. Thank you, everyone, for coming here to read and post.

Second: I've been a runner since my first 5-mile run thirty years ago. My happiness is deeply tied with the stress and demands of moving my body across the land using mainly my legs. I know intimately the pain and love running requires and begets.

The people gathered in Boston today to support their friends, the people who strove to bring their bodies across the finish line, the volunteers who gave material and emotional sustenance to people who for the most part are strangers, the cheerers and the curious--these people are my people and I am devastated at what's happened today.

Today, I'm strengthening my commitment to run as far and fast as I can until I can't anymore.

I hope the perpetrators will be brought to justice and that the victims will find peace and solace.

.
posted by mistersquid at 9:32 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


An interesting study about how to reduce the possibility of flashbacks if you saw something traumatic today - play Tetris. Tetris May Treat PTSD, Flashbacks. Via Jane McGonigal.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:34 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


It does not happen with regularity.

Yes it most certainly does. Back in the early 90s, I can recall one stretch of time when several bomb threats shut down my high school in a single month. One of them turned out to be prank-call by a kid we all knew was a little--well, emotionally troubled to put it kindly--but we still got a couple of days off. Another kid in my drama class that I had always thought seemed pretty nice and basically harmless, if alienated, actually got caught bringing a makeshift bomb to class in his back-pack one day.

America's been a little on-edge for a long time now. Bomb threats really are pretty routine these days.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:36 PM on April 15, 2013


It does not happen with regularity.

Of course it does. I work in a place of public accommodation. We've had 2 bomb threats in 3.5 years. My SO works in downtown Boston. He's had his commute disrupted by at least one bomb threat that i can remember (I have trouble remembering if they were bomb threats or electrical failures or whatever that shut the Green Line down every other week). Schools frequently get them - we had two at my high school, well before 9/11. Colleges get them. Offices get them. Bomb threats are pretty common. You evacuate, the fire department comes out. Everyone does their job. Usually there is no real bomb, but you have to check. The day continues.
posted by Miko at 9:38 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


If you think this is a false flag operation or other government conspiracy please seek an evaluation from a qualified mental health professional.
posted by humanfont at 9:40 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


U.S. News Best Hospitals in the country:
#1 -- Massachsetts General Hospital.

# 9 -- Brigham & Women's Boston.

# 1 -- Boston Children's Hospital.
posted by ericb at 9:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Bomb sniffing dogs and snipers are standard issue crowd security these days.
 why is this okay
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 9:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


rougy: "It does not happen with regularity."

Tell it to Pitt.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm less worried about why it is okay than why, in this case, it wasn't effective.
posted by Miko at 9:43 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


ctrl-F 'afghanistan' - moderately satisfied.
posted by legospaceman at 9:44 PM on April 15, 2013


"That man NEEDS A HUG. Someone give that man a hug."

Yeah, he really did need a hug during that video. He was visibly shaking and while it may have been from cold, I'm sure it was also the aftershock. But what really got me was when he said how many people were asking for help, but he could only help one person at a time, and his voice almost dropped to a whisper at the end of that sentence. Just hearing him say that, seemingly without much affect at first but kind of coming to a premature stop at the end, made me realize that that's the sort of thing that will ring in the ears of people like him for the rest of their lives.

I may be projecting, and I've never been in such a situation, but I think I'd want to help and would try, but when confronted with the reality of all the people I couldn't help, it would just tear me up.

It's worth pointing out that arguably the larger part of the bravery of first responders and good samaritans and the like isn't so much that they rushed in and helped, but that they live with the trauma of being in those situations afterwards.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:44 PM on April 15, 2013 [33 favorites]


> If you think this is a false flag operation or other government conspiracy please seek an evaluation from a qualified mental health professional.

That is not a polite way to tell someone, "You're wrong."

People are justifiably suspicious of their own government. And once you don't have any framework of trust, you can believe a lot of things, including things that probably aren't true.

From the limited information we have so far, a government conspiracy would appear to be extremely unlikely, but can't we just limit ourselves statements to like that and not comments on people's mental health?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:46 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


I'm less worried about why it is okay than why, in this case, it wasn't effective.


Sheer size of the space to inspect, all of it open to the public with people and their belongings moving around nonstop.

All that stimulation putting the bomb dogs off their guard.

Not to mention the dogs are only trained for some scents. which may not have matched the explosives used here.

And, well, dogs suck. Training them is a process that really has to be designed with rigor so the dogs know they should alert on the right things and not just on the trainer's unconscious tics.
posted by ocschwar at 9:47 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


"America's been a little on-edge for a long time now. Bomb threats really are pretty routine these days."

Out of curiosity, the one such event I personally experienced was a bomb threat phoned in on a passenger jet I was on in the late 90s and we were diverted to a landing on a distant runway with emergency vehicles and such. My question is this: are bomb threats on planes less common these days? Because it was a heck of a lot more believable that someone could get a bomb on a plane in 1996 than it is now.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Carlos Arredondo's account

It's hard to watch a brave man's hands shake.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:48 PM on April 15, 2013 [26 favorites]


I think that "false flag" has become "fuck the police" for a younger and more niche (thanks to the internet) generation. In this sense it's more of a statement of world view and identification rather than a literal assertion.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:50 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


One thing that I noticed when I watched the video of the first explosion was that it seemed to my (ignorant) eye that it was particularly directed perpendicular to and toward the street. I recall thinking that the video would tell an expert quite a lot about where the explosive was positioned, what type it was, and what the bomber intended.

Sorry if this is too in-depth, but it's been a very long day spent checking in with/on local friends, co-workers, etc. "ARE YOU OKAY? IS YOUR FAMILY?" and nerding out is therapeutic for me, so permit me to feign some semblance of control of the situation by analyzing it.

The principle behind sharped-charge warheads, Claymore landmines, etc. is the Misznay-Schardin effect, which basically notes that if you have a "sheet" of explosives, then the vast majority of the force goes directly outward from the two sides of the sheet (along the surface normal, for those of you who remember your geometry).

Furthermore, if you have a metal plate or similar solid surface on one side, then overwhelming majority of the force pushes outward and away from the metal plate. For a real world example, Claymore landmines are basically a three-layer cake - metal plate, thin sheet of plastic explosive, and about 200 9mm ball bearings that get carried along with the directed explosive force - turned on its side.

Given the lack of sophistication in the basic chemistry of the bomb based on what we can glean from initial police reports, I really doubt there was anything as sophisticated as blast shaping going on, but those same principles & the Munroe effect also apply far, *far* more loosely, to overall surroundings of floors, walls, etc.

Which is likely what you're seeing. All of this is uninformed speculation, but it felt really good to write.

Also this:
@jamescdownie: I've always assumed Alex Jones is a conspiracy designed to discredit Alex Jones.

Was the only time I laughed today. VERY appreciated, zombieflanders.
posted by Ryvar at 9:51 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


he said how many people were asking for help, but he could only help one person at a time, and his voice almost dropped to a whisper at the end of that sentence

Yeah, I noticed that too. More than the shaking, that's what made me want to hug him so bad. He probably saved a person's life today, and still he's probably going to be haunted by what he saw, did, and couldn't do today.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I think that "false flag" has become "fuck the police" for a younger and more niche (thanks to the internet) generation. In this sense it's more of a statement of world view and identification rather than a literal assertion.
 but if this is the case how will i validate myself by mocking those i perceive as dumber than i
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 9:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Although it's clear some people mean it literally, which is ridiculous. I don't really understand it, personally, but it's all over the internet.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:53 PM on April 15, 2013


I am confident you'll find a way.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:53 PM on April 15, 2013


It does not happen with regularity.

I found my favorite shortcut on my college campus years ago because of of bomb threat. We had a week of them--the gym, a dining hall, the physics building. The entire bus line was shut down for a few hours so each bus could be inspected. Roads were closed pretty quickly so you had to be creative getting to class. I think this was in 2002?

I think they finally caught someone calling from the payphone outside of a dining hall. Thing is, there were so many false alarms it got to be a joke. If we heard a fire truck, no one assumed it was a 'real' emergency, we just tried to guess what would be shut down next.
posted by weskit at 9:53 PM on April 15, 2013


Initial response broadcasts can he heard here.

I don't think I need to warn you that it's a tough listen, but I will anyway.
posted by rollbiz at 9:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [4 favorites]


That is not a polite way to tell someone, "You're wrong."
People are justifiably suspicious of their own government. And once you don't have any framework of trust, you can believe a lot of things, including things that probably aren't true.

From the limited information we have so far, a government conspiracy would appear to be extremely unlikely, but can't we just limit ourselves statements to like that and not comments on people's mental health?

If someone coughs up a bunch of mucus in a violent fit you might suggest they go to the doctor and get that looked at. Same principle here. If you don't have a framework of trust; you probably should get some help on that.
posted by humanfont at 10:01 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


why is this okay

Well, given the state of American civil rights these days and the fact that unlike virtually ever other "security" protocol instituted since 9/11, neither the dogs nor the snipers infringe on my rights of free movement, privacy, assembly or speech, I'm actually pretty okay with both the snipers and the dogs.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:03 PM on April 15, 2013 [5 favorites]


Oh my God :( Hang in there, Boston.
posted by rozaine at 10:07 PM on April 15, 2013


Mod note: Comment deleted; please don't do the 'ironically taking on the voice of people you think are stupid" thing here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:08 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


A few years ago when we still had the national guard here I saw something funny I'll never forget.

I was walking through one of the hallways in Grand Central towards the one of the Lexington avenue exits. I heard a commotion behind me, shouting, people running, walkie talkies squawking. Couple seconds later a national guard guy halls ass past me, so I sort of move over and stand against the wall. He bangs through the exit onto Lex.

Everyone is stopped and watching now.Three or four national guard run past, then behind them some younger NYPD. Trailing all of them were older NYPD, running and pulling up their utility belts at the same time. I swear one was running still holding a coffee cup out in front of him so it wouldn't spill.

After they all run past I start walking again and finally reach the door and step out. There are like 20 cops out there sort of standing around looking befuddled. At the curb was a cab driver standing pressed against his cab. A bomb dog was just standing there staring him down.

I never found out what happened but obviously nothing blew up. The national guard is mostly gone but we still have the bomb dogs.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:09 PM on April 15, 2013


For the record, I wasn't suggesting this was a false flag operation, I was sharing a witness account. At best, I thought maybe the police had been given a tip or a warning and they were trying to be on top of it without causing a panic. What I seem to have done is resurrect a false flag conversation that has already taken place and it's kind of lame pigeon-holing people and then shutting them down all over again.
posted by phaedon at 10:11 PM on April 15, 2013


13 Examples Of People Being Awesome After The Attack On The Boston Marathon
posted by rozaine at 10:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [8 favorites]


Twenty-odd years ago, by going in to work an hour early, I was almost an unintended victim of a bomb bigger than the McVeigh/OKCity blast, intended for the IRS office next door to me. Some inept wiring in a detonator kept a 55-gallon drum of mixed flammable liquids from peeling off the front of the building where I was working at a desk facing the window. The bomber had better luck in Fresno, where he did blow up part of an IRS facility and take the life of a security guard even earlier in the morning. I didn't know the whole story (including its destructive capability) until over a year later when it was part of a documentary on terrorist bombers (and this one was homegrown, and caught after the parts of his unexploded bomb were traced to the electronics company he worked for). I still kind of flash back to the 'big kaboom that didn't happen to me' when something like this happens. It just reminds me of the thin veneer of civilization that the irrational and soulless sometimes break through and makes me realize what a wonder it is that these things do not actually happen more often, security precautions or not. And it reminds me never to take a job next door to the IRS or go into work an hour early.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:16 PM on April 15, 2013 [30 favorites]


The tide of reaction here is always so comforting in events like these. Even the frustrating parts as people try to work out how to balance incoming information, lack of facts, and strong emotions. But it's an eery sort of comfort - as several others said, the fact that we have a response pattern figured out, virtual gathering places where we know the traditions for horror and grief...it's a little chilling, too.

I feel as if I've been saying it all day: my heart is with those in pain, whether directly or because of what has happened to a loved one. May every soul have comfort, every body an embrace, every one know love.

When I saw the very first shocking image, before any news outlet had any information at all, I thought of the runners. When the first piece of real information communicated that it was all at the sides of the finish line, I felt so sick, so crushed. We all know who is waiting at the sides of the finish line, and it seemed inevitable that tiny loved ones would be included in whatever the toll ends up being.

And here we are. So many gravely wounded. So many scarred in body and mind. Even one adult would have been too many to lose, and it's sadly, sorrowfully worse. Yet...there were the helpers. The good people ran forward and began making beauty out of horror, peace from violence. Comforting strangers, directing responders to those most in need, tying off wounds without flinching. Even in a city famed for its gruffness and lack of tact, kindness shines forth and love wins.

So many of us are ridiculously distant from what happened to be as affected as we are by this. Isn't that one of the complex glories of humanity, though? Our ability to so strongly resonate with our fellow humans when something terrible happens, no matter the miles or other divides? The urge to help, the drive to support, the pull to keep information flowing - it starts us on the right foot, unlike other tendencies that are also entirely human, but not nearly as useful.

Bless the brave helpers, the courageous rescuers, and all those who are suffering. Bless them with the strength to make it through this despicable affront on happiness and community, body and mind. And a giant hug to everyone feeling sad, bereft, shocked, worried, or sickeningly confused.

I'm glad this place is here, bumps and all, so we can find that safe place to finally feel it all and grieve without going off the deep end. Thanks to the mods for the had work they've done and will do to keep this readable and mostly signal.
posted by batmonkey at 10:20 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else, so, at the risk of adding to baseless speculation, in addition to it being tax day, and Patriots Day, 2013 marks the 100th anniversary of the ratification of the 16th amendment, which created and codified the permanent ability of the federal government to collect income tax directly.

It was, in essence, the 100th tax day.

Yeah, this was likely some lone nut, but the significance of this happening on April 15th at the location of the original Tea Party is very difficult for me to ignore.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:28 PM on April 15, 2013 [19 favorites]


Sucky news. I am too far away to be affected. I feel sad for those who are. I have other more complex thoughts (mostly philosophical and political), but don't feel this is the place for them. Sending my best wishes to all who either live near the area or have loved ones who have been affected, etc... People can be such dicks. :(
posted by symbioid at 10:48 PM on April 15, 2013


Ugh, I saw Piers Morgan asking some 'terrorism' expert all kinds of speculative questions about whether or not this was an AQ attack. Apparently cable news is a lot less restrained then metafilter.
Danny the boy, I think that people are thinking it might be the NK because they have been threatening the US in the last couple of days. However I totally agree with tavella-- this doesn't sound like anything NK would or could carry out. Anybody who was sent to the USA to become covert operator would probably defect in a heartbeat, seduced by the abundance of food and the freedom to think and do what they like..
Not everyone cares about material things, and the highest level people in NK have plenty of food, not to mention people's families back home being at risk. Also, NK has engaged in terrorism in the past, against South Korea, but not the US.

But why would they do something like this? It wouldn't help them in any way. And these are people who have nuclear weapons. Doing this would just make them look weak and pathetic.
The Aurora guy had his apartment booby trapped to blow. The Columbine shooters also attempted bombings but they mostly failed to work. Crazy People/non-political mass murderers have attempted bombings. It's just that it's hard to pull off compared to just pointing and shooting.
Look at the Norwegian shooter, he actually used bombs that went off in one area followed by a shooting in another location.
Can anyone explain the technical distinction? What makes a thing-made-to-blow-up not a bomb?
I think they are saying they were not things that were made to be blow up, just 'suspicious' objects that they may have detonated out of caution.
Police Have Video of Suspect Dropping Bombs in Trash Cans
The actual text of the article says: "From a cop friend in Boston–A former partner says there was a reporter at the hospital in Boston. She overheard police saying they have video of the suspect dropping bombs into the garbage cans." Hardly seems reliable.
posted by delmoi at 10:53 PM on April 15, 2013 [2 favorites]


Slarty Bartfast, that sort of connection might make sense if it were an attack on a tea warehouse or an IRS office or something like that, but what's the connection between taxes or unrepresentative government and people watching a race?

The only thing we know about whoever's behind this is that they wanted to kill and maim people: scaring them with a fake bomb wasn't enough for them, and neither were the injuries that would have come from a bomb without shrapnel. We could speculate about the sort of mind behind this, but there's no obvious symbolic value to the attack.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:12 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


Photo of a victim (WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC/GORY).

Here are two uncropped, extremely graphic photos of the person Carlos Arredondo was helping in that picture that ran on Deadspin earlier. You've been warned. I believe he is clamping a femoral artery with his hands. I'm posting this only for posterity. Please skip this if you can't stomach the sight of severe injury. [NSFW] [1] [2]
posted by phaedon at 11:13 PM on April 15, 2013 [10 favorites]


I'm in Lahore. Woke up to this news. Quickly checked on family and friends in Boston, went to work. Came back and checked in to the Blue, because I knew my best news source in situations like these.

Thoughts and prayers with everyone affected.
posted by bardophile at 11:24 PM on April 15, 2013


"Please skip this if you can't stomach the sight of severe injury."

For those who've already seen it and don't want to see it again, the first is of the guy in the wheelchair. It would be difficult to overstate how gory and graphic that photo really is. It sort of boggles my mind, frankly.

But do you really think that Arredondo is clamping a femoral artery with his fingers while he runs alongside a wheelchair carrying the victim? Granted, I can't really guess what else he would be holding like that; but it seems like a very unreliable thing to do while moving someone.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:26 PM on April 15, 2013


I think he's holding on to makeshift tourniquet. It's not obvious what's going on in the first linked photo, but the second photo shows it more clearly.
posted by compartment at 11:41 PM on April 15, 2013


The photos that phaedon linked (and I think have been linked several times above, in slideshows (the man in the wheelchair who is grievously injured from the knees down, if you don't want to click)) are the second worst photograph I've ever seen, and my entire adult life has been internet-enabled. I don't even understand how that young man is conscious, much less survived (if he did, I'm having trouble keeping up), and it speaks volumes to the efforts of the medical professionals on the scene.

I'm sure they sign up knowing they might see fatal heart attacks or a really nasty fall. I know people who work foot and bicycle races, and they've seen some shit. The faces of the helpers in that photo tell the story. But to be able to keep your head screwed on in the face of that magnitude of injury, to get that man tied off and bust ass out of there like that, with him still sitting up alive, that's stuff I'm pretty certain I'm not made of. Though I wish I knew I was.

My giant cowboy hat is off to every paramedic, nurse, doctor, field medic, veterinarian, lifeguard, and plain old tough-stuff volunteer who can step up and get this shit done when it needs to be done. It saved lives today.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:42 PM on April 15, 2013 [37 favorites]


Wow. I didn't find out about this until just now. I don't really watch tv and hadn't read the news until bed. My husband is asleep but I really want to wake him up and hug him. We are very fortunate to be safe and warm at home tonight. A terrorist sleeper cell was arrested in my city at the end of last year. It could have easily been us.

It means nothing but my thoughts are with the people of Boston.
posted by Malice at 11:44 PM on April 15, 2013


I think he's holding on to makeshift tourniquet.

You're probably right, it looks like he could be holding onto the edge of a blood-soaked rag. If you look under the right leg and in front of the right wheelchair wheel, you can see what look like 2 or 3 similar strips of rag floating in the wind. Ugh. Sorry, I'm a photo nerd, I don't particularly like violence. Man, except for the curls in the hair, that guy is a dead ringer for a friend of mine. So unbelievably sad.
posted by phaedon at 11:47 PM on April 15, 2013


mother jones is following Arredondo's story and has further info about the young man he helped.
posted by lapolla at 11:52 PM on April 15, 2013 [13 favorites]


I've been listening to the radio and reading Metafilter all day. I'd not seen very much in the way of video--that video shot by a runner; my God. That explosion.
posted by professor plum with a rope at 11:54 PM on April 15, 2013


The worst shit I have ever seen was when i had a job in a government documents library. I made the mistake of looking in a medical book about reconstruction of WW1 soldiers with facial injuries. Maybe I'm jaded now, but nothing I have seen on the Internet, at least, no photos, were that bad.
posted by thelonius at 11:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I hate that photos of people in grievous pain and terror are so casually bandied about on the internet.

photos like that should be tagged NSFE (not safe for empathy)

but given there is absolutely no place to find a link to that photo anywhere on the intertubes, it makes perfect sense to post here.

best of the web and all that
posted by lampshade at 11:58 PM on April 15, 2013 [1 favorite]


That explicit and sorrowful photo has been on The Atlantic's website for close to 10 hours at this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:12 AM on April 16, 2013


You know how after Hurricane Katrina, the National Weather Service, after a prolonged review, was lauded for its efforts to warn the public, and its wording of warnings for that storm was cited among the best practices for future storms?

I feel like Boston is going to have a lot of similar things written about it in coming weeks after watching these videos and reading the news stories. Within a minute and a half you have National Guard troops working to access and secure the scene. The voices of the responders on the scanners. The immediate (and by all accounts flawless) triage in a medical tent wholly unprepared for a mass disaster.

Despite horrific injury and death, Boston seemed to take a breath, got its collective shit together, and said, in unison, "This is what needs to be done right now. We will grieve, but we have work to do first."

These are the good stories. This is what we need to take away from the day.
posted by OHSnap at 12:14 AM on April 16, 2013 [29 favorites]


mother jones is following Arredondo's story and has further info about the young man he helped.

A must read.
posted by Chuckles at 12:15 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


"photos like that should be tagged NSFE (not safe for empathy)"

I'm ambivalent about this issue because, at the very least, I share the concerns that nacho fries raised, but I don't think your comment is fair or even accurate (assuming you were making a normative argument — which the rest of your comment suggests — rather than the simple observation that the more empathy one has, the more painful such photos will be).

Your assumption (if I understand you correctly) is not totally inaccurate — I recall back when people were watching those "faces of death" videos that it really bothered me because, in that context, it seemed to me to surely be voyeuristic in the very worst sense.

But with regard to things like disasters or war or terrorism, I don't avoid such photos of video and, when learning about such events, will sometimes seek them out because I have empathy and it's important to me to see that this happened to actual, individual people and not be distanced from it by more abstracted words on a page or statistics or euphemistic talk about "casualties".

Which is to say two things: 1) I agree that for some/many people these things are voyeuristic and dehumanizing and that's a problem but that also for others it's the very opposite of dehumanizing (because I really do think that non-explicit media reporting of this stuff just encourages us to think about statistics and not individuals); and 2) the strongest argument against it is the privacy and dignity of those depicted and not that somehow everyone who ever looks at such photos or videos is a degenerate.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:20 AM on April 16, 2013 [18 favorites]


mother jones is following Arredondo's story and has further info about the young man he helped.
The Redditor added an update to say Jeff is in stable condition, and that "Carlos Arrendondo should never have to buy a drink in this town again."

In any town.
posted by dersins at 12:34 AM on April 16, 2013 [35 favorites]


You know what kills me, we're 1300 comments and 12 hours into this - and of course, still only scratching the surface - meanwhile the 9/11 Metafilter thread was under 500 comments. I wonder if that's ever been explained or discussed on MetaTalk. I'm not trying to compare the scale of the disasters, just curious. Maybe we just have more users. 9/11 was a very confusing event and therefore you would think it sparked more conversation. Maybe it has to do with the rise of online reporting. Shit, imagine back then Facebook was three years out.
posted by phaedon at 12:36 AM on April 16, 2013


In addition to fewer users, there were also fewer sources to post links to in 2001. Social media was almost nonexistent, there weren't as many online news sites, and many of the news sites that did exist were overwhelmed and crashed under the surge of traffic on 9/11. So there wouldn't have been as much material for people to post in the comments.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:41 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Maybe we just have more users

Not saying this is the reason, necessarily, but there were about 11,000 registered accounts then. There are close to 180,000 now. So, yeah, more users by an order of magnitude.
posted by dersins at 12:41 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


While (as I understand it, though perhaps I'm mistaken) the number of active users has generally been about the same for many years, I'm pretty sure that way back in 2001 the active userbase was notably smaller than now. But, perhaps more importantly, events like these are probably exceptions to that "active user" rule — the pool of members has certainly grown much larger and a big event like this will surely draw some of the latent ones to participation. I, myself, re-activated my account for this thread.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:42 AM on April 16, 2013


Yeah, I spend more time on Reddit than MetaFilter these days, but I come back here whenever serious shit happens because the level of discourse here is better than it is anywhere else on the internet.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:48 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Just a reminder that there's a Metatalk thread that might be a better place for discussing the Meta stuff about how many users/comments etc. on the site.

The Mother Jones article linked above doesn't have gruesome images in the photo/videos, btw, for those who are trying to avoid that, though you won't want to follow the link to the Atlantic in the first paragraph. When looking at that interview with Arredondo, I just kept thinking that I didn't know how the interviewers could keep themselves from stopping for a moment to just give him a big strong hug. I would have had to do that, knowing what he had just done and what he had been through and seeing him shaking like that.

(As far as debating the the ethics of the photos online, that could easily be a huge thread all on its own, and I'd say we need to be mindful here of labeling disturbing images – and maybe be a little careful with graphic text descriptions so that people have the chance to sort of skip over that too if they want, but we don't really have the bandwidth in this thread to get into an in-depth examination of whether such photos should be published or viewed, generally, and concerns about whether/how to link on this site can be discussed in the Metatalk thread.)
posted by taz at 12:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I guess what I'm having trouble with is parsing any such politics out of today's attack. What would the marathon represent, and who would be its antagonists?

The IRA used to bomb pubs, shopping centres, train stations, &c. - it's a much more effective terror tactic than attacking targets that 'make sense' symbolically, or arguably legitimate ones like military bases, police stations.
posted by jack_mo at 12:54 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


I'm not trying to compare the scale of the disasters, just curious.

Think of everything that's happened since 9/11. That's why we have so much more to talk about regarding this situation.
posted by tzikeh at 12:54 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Shit, imagine back then Facebook was three years out.

The iPod, not iPhone, was introduced in November of 2001. 5 gigs was considered huge, USB 2 wasn't out yet and social media was probably a strange phrase.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Phaedon, FWIW I was an avid reader of Mefi back then. However, I have didn't have an account. If I'm not mistaken I recall kicking myself for not getting an account when it was free. But I was glued to the 9/11 thread for days even if I didn't contribute. I imagine there were many of us who were silent lurkers at the time. Social media was different than it is now.


Yet here I am repeating history. I had no tv back then so didn't find out what happened until I saw my AOL home screen splash, and just like today I came right here. This is my internet Town Square and I love you guys. So glad you are all safe.
posted by Malice at 1:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


The thing that struck me most in the video of the explosion & aftermath, other than the obvious, were the photographers helping to drag away the barriers.
posted by HFSH at 2:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Liz Broomfield on running the day after the Boston marathon.
posted by Wordshore at 3:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Slarty Bartfast, that sort of connection might make sense if it were an attack on a tea warehouse or an IRS office or something like that, but what's the connection between taxes or unrepresentative government and people watching a race?

I have no idea where you're getting tea warehouse from, as the American Tea Parties use it only as a symbolic reference for themselves (and the tea was British). But the easy connection is that the Marathon is easily one of if not the largest gatherings of people on April 15, so for whatever reason the perpetrators chose, it was the most likely to include mass casualties. The fact that it would likely have less security than any given IRS office there (which may have been lightly staffed, as yesterday was a holiday in MA) or in highly-protected DC, and orders of magnitudes more victims with much smaller weapons makes a twisted, horrible kind of sense in retrospect.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by Coaticass at 4:02 AM on April 16, 2013


Helicopters continuously whirring over the Times Square area this morning.

Thatcher's funeral tomorrow in London and the London marathon this Sunday.

I can imagine any crowd this week, whether commuting or gathering for an event, may likely feel somewhat anxious.

Went to sleep last night ruminating about the people whose limbs were amputated yesterday, who may have lost their eyes or their hearing, the operations they will need to endure in the months and years ahead and those suffering from the PTSD, the horrors of what they saw.
posted by nickyskye at 4:20 AM on April 16, 2013


What a sad scene. Once the dead and wounded are taken away and the blood cleaned off, the horrible thing is that terror works. It always seems curious - though understandable - that the day after events like these the security apparatus focuses on that city, events like that. People convince themselves they'll fight the fear of terrorism but mostly they don't. America post 9/11 feels like a place that still struggles with how scared it should be. Perhaps that is a godsend - that terrorism, unlike, say, mass shootings, is not part of the national landscape.

A generation ago a hard core of Irish Americans in Boston actively supported NorAid, which was commonly understood in the early seventies to be raising money for the IRA as well as the wider cause. During that period there were several IRA bombs targeting civilians. On the 21st July 1972 alone more than twenty bombs exploded in Belfast. I mention this not because it is ironic, or some perverted karmic justice that an entirely different group of innocent people have been hurt by the bombs.

But rather because one of things that got almost entirely lost after 9/11 was that just because we do not get graphic pictures and slow motion videos of bomb blasts and blast injuries elsewhere they are no less horrible, destructive, divisive or emotional for the people they affect. The deaths of these three poor people in Boston are not diminished by horrors elsewhere. But, while one's reactions are entirely understandable in the face of such graphic imagery it is a form of solipsism most of us are guilty of to place the horrors with which we can empathise in a special box and gloss over subsequent ones that happen off screen, in dark corners of countries we won't go to.

The people of Boston have my sympathies. I hope they heal swiftly.
posted by MuffinMan at 4:21 AM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/15/177349725/two-explosions-rock-boston-marathon-finish-line-at-least-3-dead-dozens-injured

> NPR's Peter Sagal tells All Things Considered that he had just finished the marathon when he heard an explosion. He said he turned his head and that's when the second explosion hit.

This week's Wait Wait Don't Tell Me is going to be an interesting show.
posted by ardgedee at 4:26 AM on April 16, 2013


That whole area has huge memories for me.

When I was in middle school, I remember my dad being resistant to taking me to the BPL, because it was so huge. ("We might need a sherpa! If we get lost, bring a snack and some water!") A few years later, I took a part-time job at the Strawberries Music flagship store on Boylston Street (now an Atlantic Fish Co.), and I'd go there on my days off to do my homework.

I worked in that neighborhood off and on for a few years -- first at Strawberries and later as a second-shift receptionist at the old Copy Cop (where the Apple Store is now). The first year I worked on Marathon Monday, I found the inbound trip frustrating -- the Copley Station was closed and I had to walk an extra three blocks from the Hynes/ICA stop to get to work. My first impulse was to shove my hands in my pockets and curse quietly to myself, but when I got out, I found the sense of community inspiring. All these families were waiting for "their" runners, and you had volunteers lining the sidewalks with water and towels for the participants. It really brought out the best in the city.

I'm heartbroken about what's been happening today. As someone upthread said, my poor city.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:26 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'm ambivalent about this issue because, at the very least, I share the concerns........

Ok. Fine, then be ambivalent about it. As noted, this is too de-raily to continue discussing here.
posted by lampshade at 4:31 AM on April 16, 2013


I am half a world away, and cannot offer more than sympathy. It is not nearly enough. This is awful, and I, like a few above, am so glad that I am able to come here and read about it, rather than being subjected to horrific images that will haunt me.

On the 9/11 thread comments: the internet and the world and Metafilter were very different places in 2001, for a start. However, as I remember (and a few clicks are proving this memory - just keep clicking the "newer" links at the bottom for more), discussion of the event was not mainlined into a single thread, as is current practice; rather, the entire front page of Metafilter was dominated, for the next few days, by ensuing posts, related or bringing fresh news or developments. The number of comments goes up when you add the other posts, which these days would most likely have been deleted from the front page and asked to post in the main thread.

Anyway. I am so glad that the community spirit is still very much alive here just as it was then, even if I am guilty of only lurking these days. Metafilter, you are such good people. Thank you.
posted by po at 4:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Despite horrific injury and death, Boston seemed to take a breath, got its collective shit together, and said, in unison, "This is what needs to be done right now. We will grieve, but we have work to do first."

Yes. With all of the horrible images, in almost every one, you can see someone doing something the right goddamn way. The cops standing over the fallen runner, gun drawn and pointed safely at the ground, finger off the trigger while assessing the situation. The two national guardsmen working in co-ordintated unison to calmly pull away the barrier, the two of them giving the impression of the steady strength of a bulldozer at work. The race workers moving into action after only a minute or two of confusion to divert the runners to someplace safe. Carlos Arredondo. That guy, he's like the anti-terrorist. You see him in action, you know people are going to make it through.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [16 favorites]


Schneier on the most important thing we can do now: Refuse to be terrorized.
posted by mediareport at 4:44 AM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


Yeah, I'm impressed by that picture of those Boston police officers. To my untrained eye, they seem to have responded in just the right way to such an explosion. I'm reminded of the cops and firefighters who ran into the WTC to help.
posted by Area Man at 4:51 AM on April 16, 2013


I worked in that neighborhood off and on for a few years

I worked on the Newbury St side of that block for a few years in college. It is mindnumbing to see such violence in general, but to see it in a place you are intimately familiar with is more painful than I could have imagined.
posted by Rock Steady at 4:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I'm impressed by that picture of those Boston police officers. To my untrained eye, they seem to have responded in just the right way to such an explosion. I'm reminded of the cops and firefighters who ran into the WTC to help.

Especially when you consider the easygoing, celebratory mindset they must have had literally seconds earlier. When they strapped on the badge that morning they probably figured the worst thing they'd see that day was a belligerent day-drunk college kid. Amazing to see just how quickly first responders actually respond.
posted by Rock Steady at 4:57 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yesterday I followed this as soon as it broke here and on tv, on my phone through my nieces soccer game and son's soccer practice after, and back here when we finally got home. I had a hard time sleeping, thinking about it.

For some reason, through all that watching and trying to understand (which is a fool's folly, I know) I was struck by the Cowboy Hat Guy, Carlos Arredondo. I saw a picture this morning that seemed he was one of the first people to scale the barriers and rush to help. He seemed to be beating the first responders and medics into the carnage. And then, of course, there's the photos and interviews that have been linked here.

Before I knew his name yesterday I started digging into the dark corners of the the internet thinking I could find it, just so I could focus my thoughts on such a helper instead of the tragedy of this whole thing. I was pretty sure this was him but didn't say anything because the odds seemed slim.

But it was him. This man's life, I can't even. Hero doesn't even come close to cutting it for this man.

Arredondo is a peace activist and Red Cross volunteer. He is an immigrant from Costa Rico who lost his son during his second tour of duty in Iraq. Distraught, he covered himself in gasoline and caught fire while standing on top of the Marine's van that came to notify him of his son's death. He suffered burns on 26% of his body. He later apologized to the Marines for his actions.

Later his other son, the only he had left, committed suicide due to the grief of losing his brother. Arredondo was beaten by members of the Gathering of the Eagles at an anti-war march in DC.

So many hugs to all the helpers. Endless hugs to Arredondo. He may not have been born an American but he is one now and one of the greatest, no less.
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:03 AM on April 16, 2013 [64 favorites]


From my tumblr feed:

"Just a note to all people planning on giving blood, remember it only has a shelf life of 42 days. After 9/11, so many people donated that there was a glut of blood in the system and much of it expired on the shelves, unused, because there was more than needed. Also, if you donate right now, you will not be eligible to donate again for 8 weeks, so about a month after 9/11 there was a bit of a shortage, because many people couldn't donate again for several weeks. Consider delaying your donation for a week or two to insure a good steady flow of blood that will allow blood banks to replenish their inventory. Most blood banks in the United States are part of an emergency sharing system and will be shipping ready to transfuse products to Boston if they are needed. Spacing out donations insures everyone will have blood to provide their community in the coming weeks."
posted by Jilder at 5:04 AM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


When I heard about the blast the first thing I did was go back and read this awesome (and terrifying) comment by warbaby. Here's the most resonating paragraph:
The current cycle will likely peak next spring. The usual pattern is for the Patriots to ride on the energy of electoral cycles and then the more violent ones will have a temper tantrum (usually in the form of mass killings) in the spring after the federal elections. You may recall the last cycle turned violent in 1995, six months after the right-wing frenzy gained the Republicans control of the House of Representatives for the first time since the Depression. The crazies like Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph don't have any investment in electoral politics, but they are activated by political agitation and take the hot air coming from the far right as encouragement and approval for their own extremism.
posted by PenDevil at 5:12 AM on April 16, 2013 [24 favorites]


I will be wearing my Wine & Dine Half Marathon shirt to work today. It may not do any tangible good, but if I acknowledge my identity as a runner, I prove that we will not be afraid.

I will still run these streets. I will still volunteer at marathon finish lines. I will not forget. I will run towards something better.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:12 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


An eyewitness account by a man, obviously suffering from shock, who helped a victim of the bombing by holding the victim's artery closed.
posted by nickyskye at 5:13 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


To my untrained eye, they seem to have responded in just the right way

There sure were a lot of them. In the couple hours it took to find my wife and walk across town to get the car the number of swat teams and tanks that converged from the surrounding area was just astonishing. The guys hovering in certain areas with sub-machine guns at ready were polite to onlookers. Everyone was somewhat subdued and shocked but not too clear on the details. Then there would be a moment almost cinematically surreal when 20 police on bike cruised past.
posted by sammyo at 5:17 AM on April 16, 2013


Charles Pierce (new article this morning, not the one linked above): "In the lobby, there were bleeding runners—not, it turned out, hurt by the explosions, but who had been in the medical tent next door, being treated for such comparatively mundane maladies as dehydration. They’d ripped out their IVs and made space on the cots for the injured."
posted by Eyebeams at 5:26 AM on April 16, 2013 [19 favorites]


Carlos Arredondo's account.

That man NEEDS A HUG. Someone give that man a hug.

I know Carlos and Melida and am likely to see them again. I will definitely give him a hug and also one for any other MeFite who wants to thank him.

To explain just how incredible what he did was, though, his son Alex was killed in Iraq. It would have been completely understandable if he had frozen up. Instead he rushed in.

He is such a sweet man even with everything that has happened.

On preview, yes, he was definitely beaten by Gathering of Eagles while mourning his son, badly - I was one of those first on the scene. And he still has the boundless compassion to help strangers.
posted by corb at 5:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [143 favorites]


Guardian on the beginning investigation (NB: contains a few potentially distressing images and videos)
posted by tykky at 5:33 AM on April 16, 2013


Corb, that's absolutely amazing. How lucky you are to count him as a friend. His wife, as well. I understand, from reading about them, that they've both worked tirelessly and selflessly for veteran's issues. They both sound like simply wonderful humans. The world could use more Arredondo's.

Hug them for me. I know the thanks of a stranger will not mean much but please impart upon them that at least this one random person out in internet land is in awe of his life and feels great gratitude towards him.
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


corb, I suggest you cordon off most of Wednesday for hugging Carlos, because a few hundred people are going to ask you to. Add me to the list.
posted by Peevish at 5:46 AM on April 16, 2013 [15 favorites]


Arredondo is a peace activist ..

Wow...thanks for pointing this out. I met Carlos in 2007 at a peace march in DC. He was pulling the coffin memorial for his son as we marched. I spent some time walking with him, talking about losing our sons. He had lost his son recently, I had lost mine 17 years before that. He is a compassionate, caring individual.
posted by HuronBob at 5:47 AM on April 16, 2013 [26 favorites]


"NBC: Police Were Investigating Saudi Man When They Searched Revere Apartment" (via Talking Points Memo)
posted by BobbyVan at 6:00 AM on April 16, 2013


That's a very thin article BobbyVan. Also quotes NBC but doesn't link to their report?
posted by panaceanot at 6:10 AM on April 16, 2013


CBS News also reported the link between the Revere apartment and the Saudi national.
CBS News Senior Correspondent John Miller reported Tuesday morning the apartment search was related to a man who is reportedly under guard at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.

Miller reported the man is a Saudi national who is in the United States on a student visa.
Whether the Saudi was actually connected to the planning of the bombings is obviously unknown, but it seems factual to state that the widely reported search of the Revere apartment was connected to the investigation of the Saudi man.
posted by BobbyVan at 6:14 AM on April 16, 2013


Apparently there's a police press conference in 15 mins - from Guardian:
"Reuters is reporting that there will be a police press conference at 9.30am local time (2.30pm BST)."
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:14 AM on April 16, 2013


I belong to a running team in NYC. Our team sent about a dozen people to the Boston marathon this year, plus another 6-10 to cheer them on. I didn't know everyone who was going (the team has several hundred members) but the people I knew well who were running it were mainly first-time qualifiers, who were so excited to get the opportunity to run Boston for the first time. I had followed their progress- training for months to qualify, spending the past 16-24 weeks on their long-time goal: to qualify for and run Boston. Yesterday morning my facebook feed was full of encouragement, excitement, and cheering for them. 24 hours later it is such a different story. We were so lucky that none of our team members were hurt, but the sadness, especially after the elatedness of earlier, is overwhelming.

I do have to admit (though I know it's not statistically any less safe now, etc. etc.) that this is impacting my decision whether to run the NYC marathon this year, which I was somewhat on the fence about-- though hearing about the first of my friends finishing, seeing their pride and happiness, I thought I had made the decision.

This is incredibly selfish, but I've never felt so happy to have been to slow to qualify.

I am so grateful to everyone who has been able to help out.

My thoughts are with the people of Boston.
posted by matcha action at 6:15 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Unexploded Boston bombs could yield vital clues
posted by Artw at 6:15 AM on April 16, 2013


Map Delineating the Crime Scene in Downtown Boston
posted by seemoreglass at 6:17 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Unexploded Boston bombs could yield vital clues

NBC are apparently now saying there were no unexploded devices. That really says something about how difficult it is to discuss this type of event so soon after it happens.
posted by knapah at 6:20 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


There are going to be a lot of news links posted to this thread over the next few days and weeks, and it is probably wise to give everyone the benefit of the doubt on both sides. Just because someone posts something doesn't mean they are claiming it is the gospel truth, but at the same time, not every link must be vetted by a team of factcheckers. Be thoughtful about what you add to the discussion here, and understand that by posting things, people are just trying to be helpful and informative. Hugs all around, OK?
posted by Rock Steady at 6:21 AM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


Chicago Tribune's Sports section this morning
posted by zombieflanders at 6:24 AM on April 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


zombieflanders: Chicago Tribune's Sports section this morning

I'm increasingly embarrassed at the level of importance Boston sports has in my day-to-day life, and I'm trying really hard not to let the antics of a couple dozen millionaires affect me as strongly as it does, but goddamnit if that graphic doesn't have me tearing up here at work this morning. Thanks zombieflanders.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Brandon Blatcher: The problem is, all this speculation can have consequences. Crowds with the wrong ideas have been known to kill the wrong people in retaliation. Once a certain set of consensus ideas about what the truth is takes hold, if it later turns out to have been wrong, boom--new conspiracy theories are born.

I recall eleven and a half years ago, watching buildings fall, hearing a conservative coworker say, "Well, that's it for Saddam Hussein."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


IRS statement on the Boston Explosions. They will be providing extensions to Boston-area tax payers, with details to be announced later today.
posted by skycrashesdown at 6:28 AM on April 16, 2013


Don't worry Rock Steady; Boston sports has about zero importance in my day-to-day life, and that ad totally made me tear up, too.
posted by taz at 6:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


I recall eleven and a half years ago, watching buildings fall, hearing a conservative coworker say, "Well, that's it for Saddam Hussein."

OKC Bombing, I yelled at people for assuming it was "Arab terrorists" (they used less polite wording), and those people were big conspiracy theory nuts in the next year or so. They just couldn't believe McVeigh did it. Small minded Americans are the worst, and there are soo many of them.
posted by DigDoug at 6:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


More from CBS' John Miller on why the Saudi national fell under suspicion. Standard disclaimers about early information being possibly (even likely) incorrect apply.
Law enforcement sources told Miller a witness saw a person acting suspiciously when the explosions happened along the marathon route.

"They see him running away from the device," said Miller. "Now, a reasonable person would be running away. But this person had noticed him before. This is a civilian -- chases him down, tackles him, turns him over to the Boston police. The individual is being looked at [and] was suffering from burn injury. That means this person was pretty close to wherever this blast went off, but not so close as to suffer the serious injuries that other people did."

Authorities told Miller that the person in custody is not charged and not under arrest. He is being cooperative, answering their questions, and denying involvement. They'll likely be going over this person's communications and examine every aspect of his life, as well as talk to the witness who tackled him to find out what the person of interest did that seemed suspicious.
posted by BobbyVan at 6:35 AM on April 16, 2013


Despite horrific injury and death, Boston seemed to take a breath, got its collective shit together...

That's kinda how Boston rolls, though. It's what I love most about it. The people can be outright rude (despite the stereotypes, your typical New Yorker on the street is waaaaay nicer than the average Bostonian), but when things happen, they are ON it.

I don't know why, but I'm thinking about this one time I blew a tire a few miles from my house in Somerville, and I was stupidly, overly upset about it for some reason. Probably because I was pretty broke, come to think of it. The tow guy was 110% Pure Masshole, with an accent as thick as a Kelly's roast beef sandwich. I couldn't understand about half of what he said to me, but he was just so, so capable, and sweet, and told me he'd make sure his cousin who owned the garage would give me a deal. (And he did).

Bostonians, and particularly the stereotypical Massholes, often take a little time to win over, but once you have, you've got a friend for life.

I don't live there anymore but I've been thinking about Boston a lot in the past several hours. Even once I knew my family and friends there were ok, I just kept thinking about all the things that make it dear to me.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [16 favorites]


Ah... Fleeing while Arab.
posted by edgeways at 6:39 AM on April 16, 2013 [29 favorites]


A friend just posted a photo from her morning commute -- the IBEW Local 103 headquarters right off I-93 has a massive electronic billboard whose messages range from the political to the charitable depending on what the 103 is up to. It currently reads COWARDS.
posted by olinerd at 6:40 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Update press conference via NBC News
posted by lampshade at 6:42 AM on April 16, 2013


From Deval Patrick at the news conference going on now:

Only 2 devices found, all others not explosive
150 injuries
Interfaith prayer service tomorrow
Continued heightened police presence
posted by zombieflanders at 6:44 AM on April 16, 2013


My office is on Berkeley at Boylston. We had the day off yesterday for Patriots' Day, so I was at home in the burbs. A 15-block area is shut down as part of the crime scene, and our building is inside that zone, so no word when we might be able to get back in.

I was living in NY on 9/11, and arrived at work in lower midtown just in time to see the second plane hit. I remember the chaos as everyone spilled out into the streets and walked for miles to get home, since the subway was shut down, with the smoke and the smells drifting uptown.

I really couldn't face this news yesterday, but have been just reading and reading all morning, Paul Simon's American Tune on repeat and tears streaming down my face.

Not again, we just can't go through this again.
posted by libraryhead at 6:44 AM on April 16, 2013


Guardian liveblog is covering the press conference that's just starting.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:45 AM on April 16, 2013


Sidenote: I like the auto-update thing that the Guardian liveblogs do where they add (1) to the page title when there's an update, the exact same way that MeFi does.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:46 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


zombieflanders, thanks for listening and posting that for those of us who are trying to avoid non-Metafilter media.

150 casualties? That seems really up from yesterday's count - any hope that they are minor injuries and not on the scale of what we saw in pictures?
posted by corb at 6:47 AM on April 16, 2013


I'll reiterate that everyone should read Bruce Schneier's piece Keep Calm and Carry On :  "Even the 9/11 terrorists got lucky."  "Our society is more robust than it might seem from watching the news. We need to start acting that way."
posted by jeffburdges at 6:47 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


as well as talk to the witness who tackled him to find out what the person of interest did that seemed suspicious

Let me guess.
posted by enn at 6:47 AM on April 16, 2013


150 casualties? That seems really up from yesterday's count - any hope that they are minor injuries and not on the scale of what we saw in pictures?

This is what I'm assuming, yes. There were probably a lot of people who got hit with shrapnel but weren't seriously damaged, and those people probably didn't all go to the hospital immediately.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:49 AM on April 16, 2013


spitbull: "Also, as a Boston-born New Yorker who was also here for 9/11, I'm not down with all the 9/11 comparisons at all. Orders of magnitude separate the death tolls. This is horrible. But it is not comparable in any way to 2700 dead."

As far as damage goes, I agree with you. As far as observing media patterns, though, there's some useful comparison.
posted by Karmakaze at 6:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


corb: It covers everyone who went to a hospital, which I imagine covers minor injuries as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:51 AM on April 16, 2013


Mod note: Let's steer clear of the "which tragedy is worse?" angle. For metadiscussion there is an open MetaTalk thread.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 6:51 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm not all that familiar with Boston but I'm guessing like most cities there must be a ton of CCTV, either police or city ones or in ATM's and outside of private businesses. So here's hoping at least one camera was pointed at one of the trash cans in question.
posted by bardic at 6:55 AM on April 16, 2013


> meanwhile the 9/11 Metafilter thread was under 500 comments

I was reading MeFi then, although I hadn't signed up yet. I lived in NYC and my Internet connection was up and down all day. Many people who would have said something might not have been able to post.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:57 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some people respond to a crisis like this by running into the crowd to try to help and administer aid to the wounded; others respond by tackling the first person they see that they have a fleeting suspicion might be the enemy. I think I know which of the two I'd want watching my back. (Nthing the praise for Carlos Arredondo...)
posted by saulgoodman at 6:57 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Pakistani Taliban denies involvement in Boston bomb blasts

The Pakistani Taliban, an insurgent group focused mostly on the Pakistani state but which claimed responsibility for a failed bomb attack in New York nearly three years ago, has denied any involvement in the bomb blasts at the Boston Marathon on Monday. The group is responsible for many of the suicide bombings and terror attacks that have wreaked havoc on this South Asian nation for years. It does, however, regard the U.S. as an enemy and helped train Faisal Shahzad, the Pakistani American who confessed to engineering a botched bombing attempt in New York’s Times Square in 2010.

Nevertheless, the group’s spokesman, Ehsanullah Ehsan, issued a statement Tuesday disowning any connection to the bombings in Boston. "Certainly, America is our target and we will attack the U.S. and its allies whenever the [Pakistani Taliban] finds the opportunity, but we are not involved in this attack," Ehsan said.
posted by mediareport at 6:58 AM on April 16, 2013


corb: It covers everyone who went to a hospital, which I imagine covers minor injuries as well.

I heard an eye-witness account from a 13 y.o. boy(!) on NPR yesterday - his mom was in the hospital, because her hearing was damaged. Local hospitals are taking everything seriously. These are some of the best medical institutions in the world, of course they're going to come through in the clutch.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:59 AM on April 16, 2013


Also, I'm guessing that they will have some sort of info re: when the trash bag liners were most recently replaced. It's the end of the race -- a lot of people standing around -- those trash cans are probably getting filled up quickly -- many volunteers helping keep things clean -- that all adds up to the fact that whoever placed the bomb probably did so in the minutes or hour/hours before the explosions. Unless of course the device was placed in a bag or in a postal box. Have they confirmed that the devices were placed in trash cans?

One more thought: Deval Patrick's voice is indistinguishable from Garry Shandling's.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:00 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


In 2001, most of the major news websites were down or only sporadically accessible - at my office in Los Angeles we were all crowded around somebody's portable TV for news - and I remember CNN eventually taking everything offline except the main story of the day, presumably because their servers couldn't handle the traffic. I thought of that yesterday, when boston.com wasn't working for about a half hour in the immediate aftermath. That kind of thing almost never happens now, and really drove home the seriousness of the situation. The internet doesn't work??!? Anyway, it made me realize how much our access to media really has changed in the past decade. For better or worse.
posted by something something at 7:02 AM on April 16, 2013


I was reading the story of Carlos Arredondo (the guy in the Cowboy hat helping the most injured person w/ legs totally blown off). He is an amazing human being. For someone who has experienced so much personal pain, his unselfishness is outstanding. It gives us all hope that not everyone is a raging, angry person who is out to get others. To bad the person(s) who is/are responsible for the explosions couldn't redirect their anger into something good like Carlos did.
posted by stormpooper at 7:03 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


bardic: I'm not all that familiar with Boston but I'm guessing like most cities there must be a ton of CCTV, either police or city ones or in ATM's and outside of private businesses. So here's hoping at least one camera was pointed at one of the trash cans in question.

I'm also thinking of the dozens if not hundreds of hours of smartphone videos that must have been taken of that area over the course of the morning. It's going to require a massive effort to organize and sort through it all, but I would be shocked if we don't end up with at least a few images of the perpetrator(s).
posted by Rock Steady at 7:03 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


others respond by tackling the first person they see that they have a fleeting suspicion might be the enemy.

You don't know what the tackler saw, so "fleeting suspicion" is rather loaded. Right now his action has given investigators a lead that they believe is worth pursuing. It might have been racism that spurred him to take the action he did, but then again he might still turn out to be heroic.
posted by 0 at 7:04 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Deval Patrick's voice is indistinguishable from Garry Shandling's.

Glad I wasn't the only one that thought that. By the way, our local news here in DC (Fox 5) gave out the name of the "person of interest" this morning but I'm not seeing that anywhere else. Anyone else hear this?
posted by playertobenamedlater at 7:06 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Boston PD reports that two bomb sweeps were made prior to marathon. What that means exactly, I don't know.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on April 16, 2013


One more thought: Deval Patrick's voice is indistinguishable from Garry Shandling's.

Garry Shandling and Deval Patrick have never been seen in public together. Alex Jones should investigate this lead.
posted by ocschwar at 7:06 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


That was the day I learned about robots.cnn.com, which stayed up all through the crisis.

I shed a real tear when that URL quit working. Then CNN became a sort of lite version of Fox, combined with a celebrity tweet aggregator, and I quit missing it
posted by thelonius at 7:06 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


NYPD removes trash cans from the street for major public crowd events. Tell me Boston had reasons for not doing that?

My guess would be because marathons (and any long race) generate an enormous amount of trash. There are space blankets, banana peels, GU things, all kinds of other gel packaging, basically a million tiny cups...and that's just the runners. The spectators had been there for five or six hours, so there's all the detritus of signs and water bottles and what not. I really don't know how they'll handle it in the future because races without large amounts of trash cans have lots of stretches that are slippery nightmares to run on.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:07 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


FBI official: "This will be a worldwide investigation...we will go to the ends of the earth..."
posted by BobbyVan at 7:09 AM on April 16, 2013


roomthreeseventeen: The Boston PD reports that two bomb sweeps were made prior to marathon. What that means exactly, I don't know.

They begin setting up the grandstands and barricades several days in advance of the race, so the sweeps may have at that point, and the bombs were placed afterwards, maybe (probably?) during the race.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:09 AM on April 16, 2013


My guess would be because marathons (and any long race) generate an enormous amount of trash.

Not to mention that the course is 26 miles long.
posted by smackfu at 7:11 AM on April 16, 2013


You've got a more charitable reading of human nature in times of crisis than I do, 0. If the person that tackled the guy was going on anything more substantial than the vague suspicions that have been reported so far, it would be a huge surprise to me. We're still the same animals we've always been deep-down. And if the Saudi guy was actually involved, he'd most likely have taken credit immediately and started trying to issue press conferences to get his message out--if history is any guide, Islamist terrorists are almost always quite eager to take credit for their actions, hoping for a chance to sell their message.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:12 AM on April 16, 2013


From the press conference (via The Guardian again):
Police commissioner Ed Davis is asked about a bomb placed in a trash can. "There's no evidence of that," he says.
Davis said there were two sweeps for explosives before the bombing, one in the early morning and one just before the lead runners came through.
Those sweeps turned up nothing, he said, but because there's unrestricted access to the course someone could have planted a device later.
Davis gives a new, higher number for casualties, saying that local hospitals took 176 injured people. He said that 17 people were in a critical condition and that three people were confirmed dead.
He adds: "No-one's in custody."
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:15 AM on April 16, 2013


And if the Saudi guy was actually involved, he'd most likely have taken credit immediately and started trying to issue press conferences to get his message out--if history is any guide,

No. He would still need to give his accomplices time to GTFO.
posted by ocschwar at 7:15 AM on April 16, 2013


Doubtful. The true believers prefer to be martyred.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:16 AM on April 16, 2013


No. He would still need to give his accomplices time to GTFO.

That implies a higher degree of planning than "start running after the boom."
posted by shothotbot at 7:17 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Yeah - 9/11 on Metafilter. Great swathes of the internet were down. I couldn't find news anywhere. All the major news sites were being slammed. But Metafilter was still accessible. At the time, the thread seemed HUGE.

I had been reading Metafilter for about 6 months or so at that time, but that was the day I actually signed up.
posted by Windigo at 7:19 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Folks idle speculation on what a random suspect might or might not be doing gets real non-useful really fast. Please consider taking more of the speculative stuff to chat. This is just a friendly suggestion, not an edict, but we'd like to keep this thread as useful as possible. There's an open MeTa thread, as you know.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:19 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


The true believers prefer to be martyred.

Timothy McVeigh didn't....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:19 AM on April 16, 2013


Total 176 injured, 17 critical, Boston Police Commissioner says.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:22 AM on April 16, 2013


I used to work nearby (31 St. James) and the whole neighborhood was full of trash after the race.

They cleaned it up promptly, of course, but spectators leave a lot of junk, and the couple of blocks of "chute" beyond the finish line where runners get a space blanket & medal & water were simply a mess of water bottles and fruit and power bar wrappers and fluttering space blankets and the like.

My brother-in-law ran as a bandit (unregistered runner who hides among the pack) one year -- maybe 1997 or '98 -- and we went down to meet him at the finish line. It was thrilling, but the crowds were very thick, and my mother-in-law was a little uncomfortable. I ran in a few of the Corporate Challenge races in the 1990s and those were smaller affairs: maybe a few thousand runners going from the Boston Common to Kenmore Square and back again. And even that was a huge crowd who made a big mess.

I also went to college in Boston, and lots of kids spent the day along the course drinking at parties or bars and lustily cheering on whoever was running past at the moment. It was fun!
posted by wenestvedt at 7:26 AM on April 16, 2013


I think there's a lot of hokum about this sort of event that we've all internalized after 10 years of hearing pundits opine about it. The truth is, these events have some major similarities, but they also vary quite a bit. Acting like we have a total bead on how terrists do their evildoin' deeds reflects shallow media platitudes instead of observation and thought and I think we can do better.

It's truly amazing that we have so very little information about this 20 hours later. It's astounding really. I understand the cops may not have a theory yet, but whatever information they do have, they are sitting on pretty tightly, even very basic information about bomb construction and placement, time window, etc. I don't mean to be hysterial but the thought has also crossed my mind that other shoes may drop.
posted by Miko at 7:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


CNN is reporting that the 8-year-old boy who was killed was with his family waiting for his dad to finish the race - and that his sister lost a leg and his mom has a brain injury. I just can't even.
posted by bibbit at 7:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [13 favorites]


Miko, Reality does not operate on the same time-frame of a tv police procedural. Nor is it subject to our digital age's instantaneous information mind-set. Figuring this out will take whatever time it takes. There's a lot of evidence to sift through.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


Or it costs nothing for investigators to not issue press releases and twitter updates but people get all bent out of shape when released information turns out to be false. There is very little upside for investigators releasing any information and lots of down.
posted by Mitheral at 7:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Miko, I don't think I understand you. What are you thinking? I think maybe it's just more likely that cops are leaking less than usual - maybe in average things, people will talk to a reporter because they figure it's not a big deal, but this, they want to make sure they get right.

CNN is reporting that the 8-year-old boy who was killed was with his family waiting for his dad to finish the race - and that his sister lost a leg and his mom has a brain injury.

Oh god. I can't imagine being popped up on runner's high, participating in one of the Great Events...and then running up to find that.
posted by corb at 7:34 AM on April 16, 2013


‘I don’t think he could do that,’ says roommate of Saudi Arabian man questioned in Marathon bombings
posted by BobbyVan at 7:34 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


No more hurting people.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [19 favorites]


the IBEW Local 103 headquarters right off I-93 has a massive electronic billboard whose messages range from the political to the charitable depending on what the 103 is up to. It currently reads COWARDS.

That's a good reminder - I'll have to see if Sav-Mor has anything to say at lunch time.
posted by maryr at 7:35 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Has anything about the actual construction of the bombs been established yet? I've seen various speculations that the type of smoke produced by the blast suggests a weed-killer based explosive, that the devices were triggered by cellphone, etc., but nothing that seems more definitive than pure conjecture.

Timothy McVeigh didn't....

Yeah. I was thinking mainly of the Islamist stripe of true-believer, who do tend to go looking to become martyrs, since some people keep harping on the Saudi national guy. It's all just speculation at this point.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:36 AM on April 16, 2013


Has anything about the actual construction of the bombs been established yet?

Nope. This information hasn't been released yet.
posted by Miko at 7:37 AM on April 16, 2013


There are foreigners (including Saudis) on the streets of Boston every day: tourists, students, and workers. I wouldn't have it any other way. I love the fact that I can walk around and hear all kinds of languages. As one example, my manager is from Turkey, but he and his wife just got their citizenship here a couple years ago. Despite yesterday's bombing, I believe that Boston has a good future, and I hope people from all over continue to come here and join it.
posted by A dead Quaker at 7:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [13 favorites]


Sorry Saul - I get what you're getting at now. My apologies.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:42 AM on April 16, 2013


The photo of Martin linked upthread made me cry.

I just. Can't. Even.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


I'm still in Vermont, but as luck old have it, my parents both came down with a horrible stomach bug last night. Plan was for me and my son to stay here until Thursday, but I'm strongly considering heading back...

... That is if I can get there. The map is hard to tell, but maybe someone in town can tell me what the restrictions are like in Back Bay. I live just off of Huntington Ave, which is in the "crime scene" zone. What are the odds I could get home?

(Specifically I live on a tiny side st just behind the Marriott between Huntington and the SW corridor park.)
posted by sonika at 7:44 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


(Specifically I live on a tiny side st just behind the Marriott between Huntington and the SW corridor park.)

I live in Cambridge, and I've been wondering about those specifics myself (just out of curiosity.) From the radio reports, they haven't been completely clear, but to me it sounds like they're saying if you live inside the crime scene perimeter, stay away for a couple of days if you can? If I hear anything more specific, I'll post it here for you.
posted by atbash at 7:48 AM on April 16, 2013


More on Carlos:
Arredondo had been at the race to support a group running for fallen veterans, one of them his son, according to the Maine newspaper, which described him charging in to help the wounded after the explosions.

Afterward, he was shaking, sometimes violently, as he told bystanders what had happened.
Arredondo didn’t set out to become a heroic figure – or a tragic one, for that matter.

Life dealt the Costa Rica native the cards that brought him national media attention long before Monday.

In 2004, Arredondo’s son, Marine Lance Cpl. Alexander S. Arredondo, died in battle in Najaf, Iraq.

When Marines arrived in a van to deliver the news, on Arredondo’s 44th birthday, he grabbed a can of gasoline and a torch from his garage, climbed inside the van and doused it, then set fire to it, severely burning himself in the process, The Associated Press reported at the time.
posted by ericb at 7:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


My colleagues who live inside the "crime scene" are unable to enter the area, either to stay or to pick things up. They report that the residences inside the zone aren't being evacuated, but once you leave, you can't come back.

The John Hancock Tower is just outside the border of the "crime scene", and it's business as usual here today.
posted by Perplexity at 7:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Cambridge is accessible.

They scaled back the crime scene from 15 blocks to 12 blocks. I think this is the new map.

Might want to stay where you are for a few days, sonika, if you can.
posted by zizzle at 7:54 AM on April 16, 2013


According to the new map, I'm juuusssssttttttttt outside the crime scene line. I don't know if I'll head back or not, it would have been a no brainer to stay here but my parents having to cope with a stomach flu with a toddler turning their house upside down changes the calculus significantly.

Thanks so much for the updated info!
posted by sonika at 7:58 AM on April 16, 2013


When, And Why, to Call a Bombing ‘Terrorism’
“I’m not even getting this debate right now,” says Juliette Kayyem, the former homeland security adviser to Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick. “Terrorism is a very, very scary word. If the president decides not to use it, I’ve got to believe it’s to keep people calm… If it’s just some random crazy guy with no political bent, you don’t want to get tripped up.”

That is, Kayyem explains, there’s a legalistic subtlety at work here. Calling something an “act of terror” is a legally neutral term. “Terrorism” is more problematic: a defense attorney could, for instance, say that Obama prejudiced the investigation by pre-stigmatizing a potential suspect as a terrorist. Notably, for the moment, the FBI, which is leading the Boston investigation, says it’s “too early to establish the cause and motivation” behind the bombing.

Lurking behind this definitional debate is a massive amount of subtext. The word terrorism is neutral as to the identity of the terrorist behind the act. But the association in the United States, nearly twelve years after 9/11, is anything but.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


Craig Ferguson Reacts To Boston Marathon Bombing: 'Is Anyone Else Sick Of This Sh*t?' (VIDEO).
posted by ericb at 7:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


As an aside, there are interesting articles on the 100th anniversary of the 16th Amendment at Wall St Journal and About.com.
posted by jeffburdges at 8:00 AM on April 16, 2013


Spoke with colleagues this morning. Our office is around Columbus and Arlington, about a block outside of the crime scene; nevertheless, the president of the company asked everyone to work from home today, presumably not just for their safety but also to prevent complicating the investigation.

From the city press release: "Buildings will be inaccessible while the crime scene is active."
posted by seemoreglass at 8:01 AM on April 16, 2013


I was reflecting on the fact that this disaster, unlike 9/11, will produce a lot of survivors with permanent injuries. In 9/11, people either got out, maybe with minor injuries and lung issues from inhaling dust, or they didn't - there was little middle ground. Really, Oklahoma City is the closest analogue to that, and I don't know enough about that event to know what the nature of those injuries were and if there was as much limb loss. This number of heavily physically impacted survivors will pose a unique challenge not only for those people, of course, but also for law enforcement/reconstruction of the events and for the city's healing.
posted by Miko at 8:01 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


sonika: According to the new map, I'm juuusssssttttttttt outside the crime scene line.

The map doesn't even match the press release. It says the cross streets will be closed from Huntington to Newbury, but the map only shows them closed from Huntington to Boylston. I guess the question would be whether or not Huntington itself is closed, which it doesn't sound like it is. Can you access your street from Columbus?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:02 AM on April 16, 2013


Miko, there are actually a lot of people who "escaped" from the WTC with permanent serious lung injuries, and many have died from those diseases, but they weren't as visible because many people didn't get very sick until years later.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:03 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


The map doesn't even match the press release. It says the cross streets will be closed from Huntington to Newbury, but the map only shows them closed from Huntington to Boylston.

There was a larger area that went to Newbury last night; they scaled it back to Boylston this morning and updated the map at that time. They've also been saying that they expect to roll it back one block at a time as the investigation continues.

I have no idea about the outside boundary being closed or not.
posted by atbash at 8:06 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


According to the new map, I'm juuusssssttttttttt outside the crime scene line.

Another thing to take into consideration is the potential for constant noise and sirens from the crews. I lived close to downtown DC during September 11th and the noise of the helicopters and military planes overhead, along with constant police sirens and vehicles for days, is what I remember the most. Do you have any neighbors you can ask? I imagine that if there is noise, it could be hard on a toddler.
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:06 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Carlos Arredondo's account.

I went back to look for Carlos' last name as I realized that he was this MeFite's major hero yesterday. As many mentioned, he seemed to be everywhere. There he was right after, his flag held high in the air, being the goddamned citizen we wish we all were at heart. The hat, the photo of him in it with his dead son's boots, there at the race line. With that guy who'd had his legs stripped from him. His face amongst that collage of two scenes, amongst the four respponders.

The same flag, bloodied in the video above: I begin to cry as this motherfucker has held on to it, held on to it all this time. Cried as his hands shook more as he unfurled it and knew that there were two symbols of my country trying to hold it together.

Carlos would go.

Carlos stands out in a crowd with his hat and his flag. He was not alone in his deeds, just amongst the more conspicuous.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 8:09 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


New York Times reports, according to anonymous law enforcement source, that Saudi national "was not involved in the attack."
posted by BobbyVan at 8:10 AM on April 16, 2013


Yes, I can access my street from Columbus. Getting to my house from the south is trickier but by no means impossible. I wouldn't get there until this evening at the earliest, probably still plenty of noise but I imagine the worst of it will have quieted down some. Again, no idea if I'm going to make the trek, just needed info as to whether or not it's actually an option.
posted by sonika at 8:10 AM on April 16, 2013


I'm off this week, but I work at one of the hospitals that received victims. Even in IT, where I work, we're basically told that if there is some sort of disaster we might need to be called in to assist. My ID even lets me get past road blocks if I'm going to work. Yesterday they activated the mass casualty command center and we all got an alert page. I knew I wouldn't need to come in (seriously, I deal with software) but I did follow the emails that were sent out giving status updates.

Today the president/CEO of the hospital sent as an email saying that because so many staff came in on their own, they didn't need to ask additional staff to come in.

This is a great fucking city. Next year's Marathon will be the best ever. Hopefully my friend who had to stop 100 yards from the finish line will run again and cross the line next year.
posted by bondcliff at 8:12 AM on April 16, 2013 [24 favorites]


Ezra Klein and Bruce Schneier: ‘If you are scared, they win. If you refuse to be scared, they lose.’
posted by zombieflanders at 8:14 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I hope this doesn’t come off as a comparison of tragedies, because I do not mean to do so, but between NYCM 2013 (2012 was cancelled because of Hurricane Sandy) and Boston 2014, I think runners are going to do an incredible amount of healing to the Northeast Corridor.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


There are reports that they are evacuating La Guardia for a suspicious package? I need to fly out of Logan tomorrow morning and all of this is making me incredibly jittery. I hate flying enough as it is.
posted by lydhre at 8:15 AM on April 16, 2013


Here's a photo of people evacuating La Guardia today. Crazy.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:16 AM on April 16, 2013


bostonmarathonconspiracy.com

Thank you, Jaime Muehlhausen.
posted by wensink at 8:17 AM on April 16, 2013 [37 favorites]


There are reports that they are evacuating La Guardia for a suspicious package.

There will likely be a lot of "suspicious package" calls/evacuations in NYC over the next few days (hopefully without any bombs being found.) According to NY Scanner on Twitter, there were a lot of them yesterday.
posted by Jahaza at 8:17 AM on April 16, 2013


They just evacuated a US Airways flight at Logan, too.
posted by backseatpilot at 8:17 AM on April 16, 2013


Apparently they've stopped a flight from Philly to Boston on the ground at Logan for a "security incident", but that could be anything with everyone on alert.
posted by marmot at 8:18 AM on April 16, 2013


Wensink this was so not what I was expecting. Thank you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:21 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sources told FOX 25 there was an American Airlines flight that was headed to Chicago. There were two men on that plane – not sitting next to each other – and speaking Arabic.

There were some concerned marathoners on the flight so the plane was brought back to the gate and the two men were escorted off the plane.

Oh dear.
posted by knapah at 8:22 AM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


Sigh, so it begins.
posted by Think_Long at 8:25 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I just want to thank everyone for being explicit as to what they're linking to, and the content of pictures. I am not going to any other news sites about this because I can't bear the thought of running across any pictures I can't unsee.
posted by KathrynT at 8:25 AM on April 16, 2013 [20 favorites]


ahh..."sources".....Fox News.....speaking Arabic....airplanes
posted by lampshade at 8:30 AM on April 16, 2013


President Obama press conference just started.
posted by ericb at 8:31 AM on April 16, 2013


Miko, there are actually a lot of people who "escaped" from the WTC with permanent serious lung injuries, and many have died from those diseases, but they weren't as visible because many people didn't get very sick until years later.

That's what I meant by "lung issues from inhaling dust." I can see the way the sentence is might be suggesting I thought that was minor, but I don't. Still, that is secondary to the event. Something feels different, psychologically, about a domestic event's having created dozens of instant amputees.
posted by Miko at 8:32 AM on April 16, 2013


President Obama just said FBI is investigating the bombings as "an act of terrorism."
posted by BobbyVan at 8:36 AM on April 16, 2013


Fox has about the same amount of credibility as the New York Post. Please do not assume the worst of people because of a Fox News story.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:41 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston and Halifax have a significant historical tie, so I'm glad and not at all surprised to see Nova Scotia is sending help. For all the damage they do, tragedies do bring good people together, and help you see that there are more good people than you realized.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Obama:
What the world saw yesterday were stories of heroism and love...If you want to know who we are, who America is, how we respond to evil -- that's it. Selflessly, compassionately, unafraid."
posted by zombieflanders at 8:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


Honestly, who cares if Obama calls it terrorism? I mean, we all know the answer to that question, but seriously -- what fucking difference does it make?

The cops and FBI are working the case. And the president's job is to let them do their job, not hop on Air Force One and track down the perpetrators himself, wing-nut fantasies about how he "failed" in Benghazi by not personally stopping the consulate assault himself.
posted by bardic at 8:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


President Obama just said FBI is investigating the bombings as "an act of terrorism."

Well, he said the magic word, so everything is good now.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


BobbyVan, I'm not sure why you think that's important, but it does seem an at least slightly different statement than if the president had said yesterday that the bombings were terrorist acts, which as was pointed out above, can have a specific legal meaning defense lawyers might be able to take advantage of in court - i.e., claiming that the president had prejudiced the case against the defendants.
posted by mediareport at 8:43 AM on April 16, 2013


We all know that it's only terrorism when a brown and/or Muslim person does it. If it's a lone-nut white male (statistically by far the most likely perp) he was a bad apple/deranged loner/troubled young man, etc.

These are the rules for American media outlets, at least.
posted by bardic at 8:46 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just choked up a little reading about the Boston-Halifax relationship and relief. Thanks for posting that.
posted by corb at 8:47 AM on April 16, 2013


Mod note: Folks, please. Parodying the voices of media outlets you dislike is counterproductive to reasonable discussion in this thread. Riffing on worst case scenarios is toxic at this point. Reconsider doing that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:48 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


The definition of what is a terrorist act has always seemed vague to me, but I think we can all agree that it's not just something that scares people. We don't call most mass shootings "terrorist acts" (although I probably would define many of them that way), and I don't know why a bombing has a lower threshold for using that word. Is it somehow scarier?
posted by muddgirl at 8:48 AM on April 16, 2013


Hey folks, we had the "white people can't be terrorists herpderp" conversation yesterday, and it was obvious then, too.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:48 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Maybe we could keep this thread about actual facts about the actual incident and hand wringing about the state of the media/nation for another forum?
posted by shothotbot at 8:49 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


We all know that it's only terrorism when a brown and/or Muslim person does it. If it's a lone-nut white male (statistically by far the most likely perp) he was a bad apple/deranged loner/troubled young man, etc.

You know, people are always complaining about this, but is it really true? I have never heard anyone in the media try to say that people like Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski were anything but terrorists. On the contrary, it seems widely accepted even by Fox News types that domestic, white-man-perpetrated terrorism is still terrorism. I mean, I'm as left-wing as the next MeFite, but I'm not sure I believe that this assumption we throw around is actually a truth.
posted by something something at 8:49 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


These are the rules for American media outlets, at least.

There's an extent to which this is true, but I'd point out that terrorism is the dominant narrative of the bombing right now, even absent any evidence about who did it or why. There's obviously a type of act that gets called terrorism when the perpetrator is Muslim, but not when the perpetrator is white, but I really don't think anyone's going to stop calling this terrorism if it turns out to be a white guy.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The definition of what is a terrorist act has always seemed vague to me, but I think we can all agree that it's not just something that scares people.

I think part of the definition is that the violence is connected with a political agenda or message, a la the Unabomber manifesto.
posted by Miko at 8:51 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


muddgirl: "The definition of what is a terrorist act has always seemed vague to me, but I think we can all agree that it's not just something that scares people. We don't call most mass shootings "terrorist acts" (although I probably would define many of them that way), and I don't know why a bombing has a lower threshold for using that word. Is it somehow scarier?"

Terrorism is specifically the systematic use of violence as a means of coercion. Mass shootings,especially if they are by lone gunman, may not fit that definition.
posted by zarq at 8:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


I think part of the definition is that the violence is connected with a political agenda or message, a la the Unabomber manifesto.

So it would not be appropriate to use it here, yet, since we know neither the perpetrator nor the motivation.

I really do think it says something about our relationship with violence that mass bombings are seen as more likely to be politically motivated than mass shootings.

Mass shootings,especially if they are by lone gunman, may not fit that definition.

Neither might bombings. (I also don't really agree with the 'lone gunman' distinction. The idea that someone is a 'lone gunman' or in the case of bombings a 'lone madman' is often used to deliberately obscure ties to organized groups who provide financial and philosophical backing to a perpetrator but don't want to lose any social legitimacy. We see this with anti-abortion-motivated terrorism all the time.)
posted by muddgirl at 8:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


You know, people are always complaining about this, but is it really true? I have never heard anyone in the media try to say that people like Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski were anything but terrorists. On the contrary, it seems widely accepted even by Fox News types that domestic, white-man-perpetrated terrorism is still terrorism. I mean, I'm as left-wing as the next MeFite, but I'm not sure I believe that this assumption we throw around is actually a truth.

The discursive shift from terrorism to extremism/similar was pretty noticeable around Anders Behring Breivik.
posted by knapah at 8:56 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


If you are scared, they win. If you refuse to be scared, they lose.

This is such a dumb way to frame events like this. I have no idea who bombed the Boston Marathon, but I can guarantee that whoever did is not going to "win" in any coherent, reality-based way, no matter how people react. Terrorists can hurt and scare people in Boston but they will never be on the winning side, because in Boston and the US in general there's not any kind of successful insurgency that reaches tangible goals through terrorism. The people who live in Boston are going to continue living their lives despite the bombing, even if it does make an impact on their lives. And the people who want to inflict pain and suffering on others through attacks like this will continue to be an untolerated fringe with no real power in the world. People who help others and try to make the world a slightly better place than it would be without them will always win, regardless of whether small numbers of people are able to make the world worse.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:58 AM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


What Terrorists Want: Understanding the Enemy, by Louise Richardson, has a good definition of terrorism.

She says the act has to be politically inspired; it has to be violent; it has to be intended to send a message; the act and victim usually have political significance; it isn't done by a state; individual victims are interchangeable; and civilians are the target.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


I really do think it says something about our relationship with violence that mass bombings are seen as more likely to be politically motivated than mass shootings.

I think there's a lot of history behind that assumption, more than anything else. We can all probably name several terrorist bombing campaigns, but not so many can name mass shooting campaigns (I can't name any offhand, but I assume some group, somewhere had one).
posted by hoyland at 9:01 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Mass shootings,especially if they are by lone gunman, may not fit that definition.

2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting: "The 2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting was a terrorist attack carried out on July 4, 2002 by a lone gunman at the airline ticket counter of El Al, Israel's national airline, at Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California."

While it's logical to expect our public discourse to use the word terrorism to refer to acts of mass violence carried out by more-or-less politically motivated actors, in reality, our discourse distinguishes at least in part based on the perceived ethnicity and political orientation of the actors. It's not fair, or right, or accurate. But it is how the language is used.
posted by mwhybark at 9:02 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just wanted to thank Wordshore for posting the link to my little blog post about a nondescript UK runner popping round her local park in a half marathon tshirt in honour of the victims and everyone affected and runners around the world. I didn't mean for it to go a bit viral, it was just a personal expression, and I'm in hugely exalted company on this page, but I am a Mefite as well as a runner, and it means a lot to me. Thank you.
(Liz Broomfield)
posted by LyzzyBee at 9:05 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Mass shooting campaigns:

Guatemala

Balkans

Granted, these were genocidal in intent and carried out by military and neo-military forces. But it's reasonable to argue that they are also acts of terror.
posted by mwhybark at 9:06 AM on April 16, 2013


WASHINGTON (AP) — Person briefed on probe: #Boston explosives made of pressure cookers with metal, ball bearings
posted by BobbyVan at 9:07 AM on April 16, 2013


Well, and Norway.
posted by Miko at 9:07 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


This is such a dumb way to frame events like this. I have no idea who bombed the Boston Marathon, but I can guarantee that whoever did is not going to "win" in any coherent, reality-based way, no matter how people react. Terrorists can hurt and scare people in Boston but they will never be on the winning side, because in Boston and the US in general there's not any kind of successful insurgency that reaches tangible goals through terrorism. The people who live in Boston are going to continue living their lives despite the bombing, even if it does make an impact on their lives.

I believe that that's what "if you're scared they win" is trying to say.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:08 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


anyway, kind of a derail, sorry to interject.
posted by mwhybark at 9:09 AM on April 16, 2013


muddgirl: " Neither might bombings.

Of course. There are exceptions to every rule, and one does not preclude the other. However, as we've seen in the last few decades, terrorist groups (including Al Queda and the IRA) as well as individual terrorists with a clear political agenda (McVeigh, Rudolph) seem more likely to use bombs as well as targeted assassinations to incite terror and coerce a population rather than mass shootings.

... anti-abortion-motivated terrorism...

Many of which have been classed by the government and media as acts of domestic terrorism, including the shooting of George Tiller.
posted by zarq at 9:11 AM on April 16, 2013


mwhybark: ""The 2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting was a terrorist attack carried out on July 4, 2002 by a lone gunman at the airline ticket counter of El Al, Israel's national airline, at Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California.""

Yes, which is why I used the word "may."
posted by zarq at 9:13 AM on April 16, 2013


A bit of a sidetrack, but I dug up a photo of Carlos Arrendondo pulling the memorial that I took in 2007 in DC... Thought I would share it with you.
posted by HuronBob at 9:15 AM on April 16, 2013 [13 favorites]


Does anyone know what "Person briefed on probe" means in that Globe tweet? Is "Person" a name?
posted by Miko at 9:15 AM on April 16, 2013


It's just odd. Was it an "official?" an "individual?" "Person" seems so vague.
posted by Miko at 9:16 AM on April 16, 2013


This is getting a bit off-topic and I think we're mostly agreeing with each other about what constitutes terrorism, but quibbling around the edges.
posted by muddgirl at 9:17 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Muddgirl, yes. Agreed.

A journalist colleague explained to me once that her outlet (large NYC newspaper) tries to be circumspect when using the words 'terrorist' and 'terrorism' because of how much import they have in post-9/11 America. We hear the words and immediately think that any incident might not be isolated, etc. So that might also be a factor?

(Obviously she doesn't work for the NY Post.)
posted by zarq at 9:21 AM on April 16, 2013


According to this guy, apparently the devices were not placed in trash cans. The devices were inside 6 liter pressure cookers; those were inside black duffel bags that were placed on the ground. Inside the pressure cookers were shards of metal, nails and ball bearings.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:23 AM on April 16, 2013


I dislike the restriction of the term terrorism to non-state action, but really this probably isn't the place for a debate on that.
posted by knapah at 9:24 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Can you even easily just buy ball bearings? Seems like an obvious line of investigation if you can, since how many random citizens buy a few gallons of them?
posted by Rumple at 9:26 AM on April 16, 2013


The AP seems to have the reporters getting the goods: everything new I've seen in the last few hours is other producers/outlets citing the AP. I'm just gonna follow their Twitter for the time being.
posted by Miko at 9:27 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


You can totally just buy ball bearings, yeah.
posted by penduluum at 9:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Rumple: ebay, if nothing else.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:28 AM on April 16, 2013


I make indie nail polish. I buy OODLES of ball bearings to put in the bottles. Easy-peasy to buy.
posted by Windigo at 9:28 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh, I found my "person" at the AP too: "The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing."
posted by Miko at 9:28 AM on April 16, 2013


Yeah. As an engineering student in a kinetic sculpture class we bought tons of them. Go to McMaster, order fancy ones if you want, or just order BBs.
posted by olinerd at 9:29 AM on April 16, 2013


Amazon.com

Industrial & Scientific › Power Transmission Products › Bearings › Ball Bearings

Showing 1 - 16 of 29,563 Results
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, people buy ball bearings all the time. Hardware stores carry them. People use 'em in games, to make weights, etc.
posted by Miko at 9:30 AM on April 16, 2013


They're pretty inexpensive.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:31 AM on April 16, 2013


Heck I can go down to the salvage store in my small city and get a shit ton of them, do it in smallish increments and pay cash = no trail.
posted by edgeways at 9:31 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


And lead and stainless steel shot are just as easy to get.
posted by peeedro at 9:32 AM on April 16, 2013


On FB, this photo is circulating as a photo of Martin Richard, age 8, who was killed in the explosion. If it's really him .... well, I hope his message of peace is the enduring image of this event. (links to George Takei's FB page; don't read the comments.)
posted by anastasiav at 9:32 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Tea Party Nation: Boston Attack Occurred Because Obama Administration Is 'Not Committed to Protecting America'
posted by Miko at 9:36 AM on April 16, 2013


Women Leave Flowers at the Home of Martin Richard
posted by Miko at 9:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


anastasiav: As far as I can tell, this is the source of that photo
posted by trueluk at 9:40 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'll believe that the Tea Party wants to fight radical ideologies that threaten America when they disband and permanently stop fearmongering against brown people, Muslims and the Federal government.
posted by zarq at 9:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Advice on how to be a helper, from the members of the Walt Disney World 3 o'clock parade
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Tea Party Nation: Boston Attack Occurred Because Obama Administration Is 'Not Committed to Protecting America'

Yep, that will be a headline for the next few weeks. They've been inching towards it since yesterday.

There will also b an "outcry" because he didn't use the word terrorism in that first press conference.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Democracy Now had interviews with Carlos Arredondo, Charles Pierce and Dave Zirin (the author of this piece) this morning.
posted by homunculus at 9:44 AM on April 16, 2013


Tea Party Nation: Boston Attack Occurred Because Obama Administration Is 'Not Committed to Protecting America'

George W. Bush just wanted to hold the hand of the Saudi king and Barack Obama just wants to bow to him.

Jeez, so many dog whistles. How many coded messages are they going for at once.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:45 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


On FB, this photo is circulating as a photo of Martin Richard, age 8, who was killed in the explosion.

That picture is breaking my heart! What a darling.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:47 AM on April 16, 2013


A cousin of mine on FB is sharing a picture of a man in a red shirt, hugging someone on the ground. The caption says that the person in the red shirt was planning on proposing to his girlfriend after she finished the marathon--his girlfriend being the person on the ground, now dead.

Can anyone confirm this, with a source more credible than a photo shared on Facebook?
posted by meese at 9:48 AM on April 16, 2013


On Facebook, a security consultant describes how they will investigate the Boston bombing...
posted by neroli at 9:49 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Meese, that same photo was on Boston.com's The Big Picture captioned as "man comforts a woman injured in the bombing". It's unclear what the story behind it is.
posted by olinerd at 9:49 AM on April 16, 2013


I've seen the photo, but not with that story. It definitely sounds like something to verify., though the image is really moving even without that story to go with it.
posted by Miko at 9:49 AM on April 16, 2013


meese: Snopes isn't sure but suggests it's probably made-up.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Michael Crowley (Time Magazine): 2004 DHS alert called pressure cooker bombs "a technique commonly taught in Afghan terrorist training camps"
posted by BobbyVan at 9:50 AM on April 16, 2013


That Facebook security consultant seems to be Richard Clarke, who was Security Czar under a couple presidents.
posted by Miko at 9:52 AM on April 16, 2013


I never knew about ball bearings! I guess I was imagining the industrial kind which are precision to tens of thousands of an inch. These things sound more like "round metal spheres" of no particular precision, or expense.
posted by Rumple at 9:53 AM on April 16, 2013


Buzzfeed: Boston Marathon Runners Marry Despite Terror Attacks
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Here's another released photo of Martin Richard. There's a 3rd (more recent) photo showing that missing front tooth had grown. Very sad.
posted by de at 9:55 AM on April 16, 2013


These things sound more like "round metal spheres" of no particular precision, or expense.

A major application for a variety of balls is in polishing machines - you throw a bunch in to a rotating metal drum and they'll shine up the object you put in with it. No precision needed there. You can also use smaller ones for "sand"blasting applications (I think ceramic is common for this, but I'm not sure).
posted by backseatpilot at 9:56 AM on April 16, 2013


Boston Marathon Runners Marry Despite Terror Attacks

Life goes on, immediately. This is what I love about people.
posted by pjern at 9:58 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Yeah, the thing is, you really don't need precision anything to make it into a killing machine. You just need things to be small, numerous, and harder than flesh and muscle. The explosion does the rest.
posted by corb at 9:59 AM on April 16, 2013


This incident has brought back memories of going to see my Daddy run the LA Marathon in the late 80's/early 90's. I was always so proud to see my Daddy cross the finish line.

I can't imagine what it must have been like to have an event like that turn so tragic.
posted by luckynerd at 9:59 AM on April 16, 2013


The gruesome "immediately after the incident" pictures didn't really phase me, but the "way before the incident" pictures of Martin Richard are just killing me.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:00 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


A major application for a variety of balls is in polishing machines - you throw a bunch in to a rotating metal drum and they'll shine up the object you put in with it. No precision needed there. You can also use smaller ones for "sand"blasting applications (I think ceramic is common for this, but I'm not sure).

I know a guy who collects antique bottles and he polishes them in way very similar to this. Like a giant rock tumbler, except with little bits of cut brass rod instead of sand.
posted by jquinby at 10:06 AM on April 16, 2013


“My dear son Martin has died from injuries sustained in the attack on Boston." (FB link to statement from ABC News)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:07 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Marathon, Charles P. Pierce, Grantland, 16 April 2013
The Marathon was the old, drunk uncle of Boston sports, the last of the true festival events. Every other one of our major sporting rodeos is locked down, and tightened up, and Fail-Safed until the Super Bowl now is little more than NORAD with bad rock music and offensive tackles. You can't do that to the Marathon. There was no way to do it. There was no way to lock down, or tighten up, or Fail-Safe into Security Theater a race that covers 26.2 miles, a race that travels from town to town, a race that travels past people's houses. There was no way to garrison the Boston Marathon. Now there will be. Someone will find a way to do it. And I do not know what the race will be now. I literally haven't the vaguest clue.

Salivating Over The “T” Word, Brian Beutler, Talking Points Memo Editor's Blog, 16 April 2013
[T]hinking back over the past decade, I could only come up with one other instance in which anyone was quite so fixated on the president’s initial description of a violent tragedy in quite the same way, and it was the election year fake outrage over when exactly Obama described what happened in Benghazi as terrorism.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:07 AM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


A pressure cooker was also used in the attemped 2010 Times Square bombing, although seemingly in a different manner.
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 10:09 AM on April 16, 2013


On FB, this photo is circulating as a photo of Martin Richard, age 8, who was killed in the explosion. If it's really him ...

It's him. CNN just broadcast the 'peace' photo while reading his Dad's statement.
posted by ericb at 10:16 AM on April 16, 2013


I am so glad that what is likely to be an iconic image to come from this event, of Martin Richard, has him holding a sign that says peace. I mourn for him, and the image is an unambiguous statement for his legacy.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:22 AM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


Someone on Twitter reminded me that the London Marathon is this weekend. Given this evening's events I bet the security around the race going to be even more insane than usual.

UK police review London Marathon security plans.

London Marathon to include tributes to Boston bombing victims.
posted by ericb at 10:25 AM on April 16, 2013


Damn ... not only are the Richards' and their family friends mourning Martin's horrible death, but I also think about his schoolmates and friends. When I was eight I lost one of my closest friends. To my little mind it was bewildering. Those poor kids who will be struggling with this. The sadness, the fear, the anger.

Damn.
posted by ericb at 10:29 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Tea Party Nation: Boston Attack Occurred Because Obama Administration Is 'Not Committed to Protecting America'

Tea Party Congressman Uses Boston Marathon Bombing To Justify Opposing Immigration Reform
posted by homunculus at 10:42 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


To my little mind it was bewildering. Those poor kids who will be struggling with this.

Oh, man, you've reminded me - my brother's family lives on the Cape as well. My sister-in-law's grandmother just died, and they've both been uneasily trying to figure out how to explain that to my niece, who's four and a half. This is probably COMPLETLY freaking them out.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:43 AM on April 16, 2013


Opportunistic Politicians Say Boston Bombing Demonstrates Need to End Sequestration, Halt Immigration Reform
posted by BobbyVan at 10:44 AM on April 16, 2013


Boston Marathon victims include two brothers who each lost a leg.
posted by ericb at 10:46 AM on April 16, 2013


Opportunistic Politicians Say Boston Bombing Demonstrates Need to End Sequestration, Halt Immigration Reform

Everyone sucks.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:46 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Everyone sucks.

If there's anything at all to be learned from yesterday's events it's that most people do not, indeed, suck. Tons of them are awesome. Shame the few sucky people get so much attention.
posted by bondcliff at 10:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [30 favorites]


Any opportunistic politicians seeing the harm done to the Richard family as a demonstration of the need for national health and disability assistance?
posted by de at 10:50 AM on April 16, 2013 [38 favorites]


After the OK city bombings there where a lot of 'please let the bombers be white' running through the heads of many non whites. Not in any way to play the game of blame, but to avoid the inevitable all X are Y that happens when it is a non-white perpetrator.

Sometimes it seems there is a trap of all "whites" are individuals and all "non-whites" must speak for their people. Hell, I am white and I am (unfortunately) pre-cringing about what the backlash would be if it does end up being some Saudi student, or Somali taxi driver or... well anything except a white dude I guess.


(parenthetically: Steve King has been an asshole his entire political career, no reason for this to soften his image or make him less of an idiot)
posted by edgeways at 10:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am continually swinging between "people suck" and "look at all the heroic awesome people." I can't even fathom.

It makes me wonder what I would do in a situation like this. Flee or help? I just don't know.

I really need to pull myself together to run a meeting in a few minutes, but my heart is breaking for Boston and the people who have been affected by this tragedy.
posted by blurker at 10:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Opportunistic Politicians Say Boston Bombing Demonstrates Need to End Sequestration, Halt Immigration Reform

We need to resurrect the word scoundrel.
posted by jquinby at 10:53 AM on April 16, 2013 [20 favorites]


More on Martin Richard:
Friends and neighbors in the Richards’ middle-class neighborhood of Dorchester, Mass. were stunned by the family’s loss.

They are a “typical, all-American, lovely family,” neighbor Margaret Admirand said, choking back tears.

“It’s devastating. He was an adorable little boy,” she added. “It’s very hard to talk about. He was a sweet little kid.”

Martin’s sister who lost a leg in the blast had run in a kid’s race on Saturday, said neighbor Beth Nagy. She had won a medal and was “all excited,” Nagy said.

Jane Sherman, the family’s next-door neighbor, described Martin as a “happy-go-lucky” little boy who was always outside playing basketball, hockey, soccer, or riding his bike.

“The whole thing is just devastating to everybody,” Sherman said. “It’s just a tremendous loss.”

Rep. Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts described what happened at the marathon after speaking to the dad.

“The kids were all up on the barrier” as runners streamed in, Lynch said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

“They were all focused forward and the blast came from the back and the side.”

“The dad is a runner, but he wasn’t running yesterday,” Lynch said. “They were there to support some of their friends who were running.”

... “We think of the Richard family as one unit,” said Bill Forry, editor of the local Dorchester Reporter and a friend of the family said on Tuesday. “For them not to be one now is the hardest thing for us to get our heads around. In addition to the grief of losing Martin, it’s that that family has been so badly wounded. “

“They are beloved by this community. They contribute in many ways. That’s why you see this outpouring,” City Councilor at Large Ayanna Pressley told the Boston Globe. “It’s surreal, it’s tragic, it’s incomprehensible. Everyone here tonight is trying to comfort one another and be prayerful.”

On the stoop of the family’s home, a few bouquets and a small stuffed bear had been left. One word was written in chalk on the front walk: “Peace.”
posted by ericb at 10:54 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's a constant swing of emotions between the awe inspiring heroes and the unbelievable suffering created by someone who does, in fact, suck.

It's a bit close to home, so it's a bit raw.

Shame the few sucky people get so much attention.

That.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:55 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Everyone sucks.

What Patton Oswalt said (one more time):

Boston. Fucking horrible.

I remember, when 9/11 went down, my reaction was, "Well, I've had it with humanity."

But I was wrong. I don't know what's going to be revealed to be behind all of this mayhem. One human insect or a poisonous mass of broken sociopaths.

But here's what I DO know. If it's one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. (Thanks FAKE Gallery founder and owner Paul Kozlowski for pointing this out to me). This is a giant planet and we're lucky to live on it but there are prices and penalties incurred for the daily miracle of existence. One of them is, every once in awhile, the wiring of a tiny sliver of the species gets snarled and they're pointed towards darkness.

But the vast majority stands against that darkness and, like white blood cells attacking a virus, they dilute and weaken and eventually wash away the evil doers and, more importantly, the damage they wreak. This is beyond religion or creed or nation. We would not be here if humanity were inherently evil. We'd have eaten ourselves alive long ago.

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, "The good outnumber you, and we always will."
posted by philip-random at 10:56 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Second Boston marathon victim identified: Krystle Campbell.
posted by ericb at 10:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston Schools Superintendent Shares Tips for Talking with Kids about Marathon Bombing -- "Superintendent Carol R. Johnson sent out a letter to staff and student families on Tuesday."
posted by ericb at 11:07 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Trash cans being removed from Capitol Hill (House side, at least), bomb dogs all over the place.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:11 AM on April 16, 2013


.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:11 AM on April 16, 2013


"The good outnumber you, and we always will."

This I believe.

I hate the repercussions that these events cause. Yesterday about a half hour after the bombs went off there was what turned out to be a small trash fire in the subway near the building in Chicago where I work. The streets were blocked with emergency vehicles and before word got out that it was just a small thing the fear in the air was palpable.

This morning seeing cops with dogs walking thru the subway set me more on edge than I'd expect. We got used to this level of security in preparation for the G8 and NATO Summits last year, but arrrggghh.
posted by readery at 11:11 AM on April 16, 2013


^ Bloody hell: "... 8-year-old Martin Richard, was running away from the first explosion with his family when the second blast killed him."
posted by de at 11:12 AM on April 16, 2013


It sucks that a picture of Krystle after the blast is available on the net.
posted by RedShrek at 11:12 AM on April 16, 2013


Krystle is from my hometown. She was a few years younger than my brother.

Fuck.
posted by pxe2000 at 11:13 AM on April 16, 2013


Boston heart map
posted by nickyskye at 11:17 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


.
posted by donajo at 11:19 AM on April 16, 2013


WaPo: "U.S. law enforcement officials said Tuesday that a Saudi national injured in the Boston Marathon bombing is regarded as a witness, not a suspect."
posted by Eyebeams at 11:22 AM on April 16, 2013


I'm heartbroken and I want to help at least a little bit.

Boston Marathon Help: Relief Groups Aid Victims (How To Help).
posted by ericb at 11:23 AM on April 16, 2013


Photos of Krystle Campbell.
posted by ericb at 11:24 AM on April 16, 2013


Boston Bombing -- Front Pages (77) -- scroll down.
posted by ericb at 11:28 AM on April 16, 2013


Sean Hannity Set A Boston Marathon Disaster Montage To Dr. Who Music.

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ericb at 11:31 AM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


MrMoonPie: Trash cans being removed from Capitol Hill (House side, at least), bomb dogs all over the place.
This appears to be a standard security precaution and not due to any specific threat.

Trash Cans Removed From Capitol Hill After Boston Bombs, Benjamin R. Freed, DCist, 16 April 2013 10:30
A Capitol Police spokeswoman referred DCist to the brief press release the agency put out yesterday after the Boston explosions, stating that Capitol Police are "being diligent in response to the events in Boston and taking additional practiced steps."
posted by ob1quixote at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2013


“I have done post-attack analyses on attacks around the world, trying to learn lessons. ... The timing here, the devices themselves, the ball bearings used—you know, that’s not some kid in his garage putting something together,” Lynch said.
This guy needs to meet some smarter kids. Seriously, anyone who has done the slightest bit of reading knows about pipe bombs and shrapnel. Whoever did this didn't have access to high explosive. It could very well be some kid in his garage, and that seems much more likely than someone coming half-way around the world and not even being able to get proper HE.

Also, the second bomb part of the strategy wasn't executed right; it was too soon and too far away to get the first responders, which is the rationale for the strategy.
posted by localroger at 11:33 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


photos like that should be tagged NSFE (not safe for empathy)
On Reddit they're called "NSFL" (not safe for life). Pictures like that aren't really that uncommon.
But with regard to things like disasters or war or terrorism, I don't avoid such photos of video and, when learning about such events, will sometimes seek them out because I have empathy and it's important to me to see that this happened to actual, individual people and not be distanced from it by more abstracted words on a page or statistics or euphemistic talk about "casualties".
The other thing is that these things all actually happen whether you see pictures of them or not. If you really have empathy for people, shouldn't it be just as horrifying to read about atrocities then to see actual images of the results? There's no rational reason why seeing a picture like that should be any worse then reading about it.
The definition of what is a terrorist act has always seemed vague to me, but I think we can all agree that it's not just something that scares people. We don't call most mass shootings "terrorist acts" (although I probably would define many of them that way), and I don't know why a bombing has a lower threshold for using that word. Is it somehow scarier?
Generally it means actions by a group of people, for a specific political goal. If it's just a single person, it might not count. Anders Breivik obviously had a political goal, but since he was acting alone it might not qualify given the current definitions. It's interesting that we don't have any group claiming responsibility. If the purpose of the bombs was to advance an agenda, how does it help if you don't tell people why you did it?
but not so many can name mass shooting campaigns (I can't name any offhand, but I assume some group, somewhere had one).
There was the Mumbai shootings. Bombs were used but most of the people killed were killed with bullets.

The thing is, shootings are actually much more lethal then bombings. Look at Breivik (who used bombs but killed way more with guns), the Aurora Shootings, Newtown were both much more lethal then this attack.
posted by delmoi at 11:33 AM on April 16, 2013


It seems the Tea Party types among the pundits have already as good as declared this an act of Islamic terrorism, so hopefully, in the interest of actually getting at the truth, President Obama, investigating authorities, and the rest of the media will have the decency to ignore them into oblivion.

Statistically speaking, it's a lot more likely this attack came from domestic right-wing radicals. Especially since there's been a significant up-tick in radical right-wing activity recently (including the recent white-supremacist Colorado murder plot). If the media starts pushing the narrative aggressively that this must have been a foreign terrorist attack and we end up wasting a lot of time and resources investigating in that direction when the real culprits turn out to have been domestic, the murderous assholes responsible may have an opportunity to cover their tracks and advance their political agenda anyway, even without anybody taking credit. Hell, even folks on the right whom I assume weren't involved in planning this attack seem to be wasting no time seizing on it as an opportunity to score points for "their side."

(I don't mean to speculate here, but it seems fair to balance out the various links up-thread about terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, Obama's "failure to keep us safe," etc., with another perspective. Don't hesitate to delete this comment, mods, if I've gone too far.)
posted by saulgoodman at 11:36 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


sio42, I'm right there with you.
posted by KathrynT at 11:37 AM on April 16, 2013


localroger: Also, the second bomb part of the strategy wasn't executed right; it was too soon and too far away to get the first responders, which is the rationale for the strategy.
I hestiate to even point this out, but I think it was executed exactly as planned so that it would catch people fleeing the first bomb, and—God damn the son-of-a-bitch—it worked.
posted by ob1quixote at 11:37 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


backseatpilot: A major application for a variety of balls is in polishing machines - you throw a bunch in to a rotating metal drum and they'll shine up the object you put in with it. No precision needed there.

And one of the most common things that are polished with them by people at home in their garages are brass ammo casings.
posted by localroger at 11:37 AM on April 16, 2013


Each time this page says there are new comments, I click in hopes that the authorities have found a suspect who has given some reason for the attack because I am finding it very hard to process without having any motive given.

Yup. Yesterday was horrible in it's own myriad of ways, but it's a very unsettling feeling to not know what motivated someone to do this, or even whether they're done blowing shit up.
posted by rollbiz at 11:43 AM on April 16, 2013


If it were a foreign terrorist group trying to make a point to the world, I'd expect them to have set it off an hour and a half before, when you've got the elite cohort of runners coming in and the maximum media coverage going on.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:43 AM on April 16, 2013


Sean Hannity Set A Boston Marathon Disaster Montage To Dr. Who Music.
He wrapped Sean Hannity in unbreakable chains forged in the heart of a dwarf star. He tricked Dan Bidondi into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy to be imprisoned there, forever. As for me, I was suspended in time and the Doctor put me to work standing over the streets of Boston, as their protector.

...He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing — the fury of the Time Lord. And then we discovered why — why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden...he was being kind.

Adapted from The Family of Blood, by Paul Cornell
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:43 AM on April 16, 2013 [16 favorites]


Lack of waste containers in subway stations and other densely populated places is often due to general concern for bombs, not specific threats. Removal of trash cans from a public area now is just like ramping up police presence: making it harder to commit similar crimes in the near future.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:43 AM on April 16, 2013


Sean Hannity Set A Boston Marathon Disaster Montage To Dr. Who Music.

I clicked on that expecting it to be the main title Doctor Who theme music which would have been surreal and horrible; instead, it was standard "drama music" that sounded a bit like a theme used in recent Doctor Who episodes, though not identical to my ear.

I hate those sort of montages, they're unnecessary and offensive when anyone does them, but I don't think choosing music that sounds like the music from a TV show necessarily makes it worse than using any other piece of music.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:44 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Michael Crowley (Time Magazine): 2004 DHS alert called pressure cooker bombs "a technique commonly taught in Afghan terrorist training camps"

Which doesn't mean anything yet:
"That doesn't mean it was the Taliban -- other people can read about this," said Beatty, who served in the FBI, CIA, and the military's Delta Force.

So far investigators have found no foreign or al Qaeda connection to the bombings, a U.S. official told CNN.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:44 AM on April 16, 2013


When I lived in Israel, police had a regular practice of checking trash cans in shopping areas and airports. I've wondered since I moved back to the US if we would need to become so vigilant. I'm still hoping that we won't need to be, no matter how naive that sounds.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:45 AM on April 16, 2013


The other thing is that these things all actually happen whether you see pictures of them or not. If you really have empathy for people, shouldn't it be just as horrifying to read about atrocities then to see actual images of the results? There's no rational reason why seeing a picture like that should be any worse then reading about it.

I have a son who can be rather accident-prone, add to that poor experiences with medical professionals, he freaks out anytime he sees blood. Just last week he had another incident that needed home first aid. When peroxide was mentioned the stakes, and the screaming increased. Looking at or thinking about the wound was anxiety inducing, the thought of the peroxide just added to that. I had to transfer the peroxide to a cup where he didn't see what I was doing. At that point he thought it was just water and was ok with me using it on him. He is getting much better at self-talk that distracts him from what is being done to manage his anxiety.

I think that avoidance of particularly graphic photos is similar to what my son does. It is a way to manage the anxiety while still knowing what is going on.
posted by Talia Devane at 11:46 AM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I just had a scheduled monthly conference call for work. All of us work in Boston, and as far as I could tell none of us wanted to be on the call. Someone asked how we were all doing and no one seemed sure how to answer.

What's strange about this event (among other things) is how limited it is in practical terms and how large it is symbolically. I am intellectually aware that there are more people murdered in Boston in an average month than have died in this event.* But everyone I know might plausibly be among the victims, and everyone's connected in some way -- they were there the night before, or they were at some other part of the race, or they saw the explosion from their office or they were stuck on the train coming home from work or they can't get back to work today or they have fond memories of watching their dad run in this race or whatever. So every email includes a line to check in, see how people are doing -- emails with work colleagues, wedding vendors, people I haven't spoken to since college tagging me on Facebook. It is both good and bad to have people continually check in on you when nothing is technically wrong.

I don't yet know anyone who was directly affected and I don't think any of my friends do, and we're talking about so few people (still far too many!) that maybe it will stay that way. There's nothing any of us can do to help, as far as I know. We just keep checking in ...

So it's strange. But if there's anything we can do to help, large or small, drop me a line.


* Don't get me wrong -- it's a safe and awesome city! Come visit! You can stay on our couch. Seriously. Possibly not all of you at once.
posted by jhc at 11:48 AM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


There's no rational reason why seeing a picture like that should be any worse then reading about it.

Pictures have always had a more powerful impact than words and verbal description. If you're still not convinced - consider how quickly television overtook radio as an entertainment medium.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:49 AM on April 16, 2013


Krystle had a great smile.
posted by Miko at 11:51 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Sophie1: "When I lived in Israel, police had a regular practice of checking trash cans in shopping areas and airports."

NYPD and the National Guard stationed in New York's Penn and Grand Central stations also check the garbage cans on a regular basis. Since 9/11, trash cans in those stations have been changed to models with frosted (but mostly transparent) plastic sides and use clear trash bags, so unusual objects can be seen / identified.
posted by zarq at 11:52 AM on April 16, 2013


Advice on how to be a helper, from the members of the Walt Disney World 3 o'clock parade

Goddamn it, why does that have to be the story that finally makes me cry? I hate the saccharine bullshit of the Disney empire, and it's this photo of all the people dressed up as their characters that makes me cry.

Maybe it's because of the quote "If you want to make a difference, than you simply have to serve others." The Dalai Lama? Thich Nhat Hanh? Nope. Goddamn Goofy.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


If you really have empathy for people, shouldn't it be just as horrifying to read about atrocities then to see actual images of the results?

Yes. For me, anyway, reading about events is more likely to activate my empathy, where images of people suffering are more likely to make me want to look away. It's one reason I'm grateful for MetaFilter when things like this happen -- I'm more likely to encounter the information I need to engage my empathy.

I have a lot of friends who have taken up running in recent years, and I've been impressed with the generosity of the amateur running community: the charity runs, the enthusiastic support for one another, the encouragement to anyone who expresses an interest in running. There was a lot of enthusiasm about the Boston marathon on my Facebook feed yesterday morning. I don't think anyone knew anyone who was running yesterday, but I know they're feeling this deeply, nonetheless.
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:52 AM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I just can't.
posted by inertia at 11:53 AM on April 16, 2013


I find that looking at images is informative on one level, but always, always raises questions that can only be answered in words. Who is this? What happened to them? Why? Where are they going? Who is with them? What happened before? What happens next? Etc.

We communicate in both images and words - they do different things, and we find both things useful in their own ways.
posted by Miko at 11:54 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


If you are wondering how the pressure cooker is involved it seems to be just a convenient shape in a innocuous device. You just pack the pressure cooker with explosives and shrapnel, with a blasting cap at the top and detonate it with whatever mechanism you have handy. Per Foreign Policy.
posted by shothotbot at 11:57 AM on April 16, 2013



There's no rational reason why seeing a picture like that should be any worse then reading about it.

Well, yeah there is, levels of abstractionism, writing is a greater layer of abstraction than photos. Writing is powerful, but it is a few steps removed from experience. Something is seen, thought of, interpreted to language then translated into various assemblies of 26 characters (for English), someone else sees that, interprets those characters into language, thinks about it and has their reaction to it.
An image, well, an image can be manipulated for effect, but at it's base it is just there, to be seen thought of and reacted to. (often times by passing the initial thought process) It is a lot easier to identify with an image than with a block of text.
posted by edgeways at 11:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Yes. For me, anyway, reading about events is more likely to activate my empathy, where images of people suffering are more likely to make me want to look away."

Yeah. In my previous defense of such images, I very much didn't intend to make universal statements or invalidate anyone's personal limits.

I'm especially sensitive to tragedies involving children and for that reason, I almost entirely avoided all coverage of the Newton shootings. Even print media. I felt and still vaguely feel guilty irresponsible for is ... but, for me, this wasn't a rational matter. I just couldn't. I can't even think about those kids, even tangentially. It's bothering me just to type this now.

It's okay that we all have our various limits. And I think that fewer than some might think are uncaring people who lack empathy, whether they do or don't look at these images or read these stories. Most people care.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:59 AM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I hestiate to even point this out, but I think it was executed exactly as planned so that it would catch people fleeing the first bomb, and—God damn the son-of-a-bitch—it worked.

If that's the case then it definitely wasn't trained terrorists because that's not how they're trained.
posted by localroger at 12:00 PM on April 16, 2013


On Reddit they're called "NSFL" (not safe for life). Pictures like that aren't really that uncommon.

I uh. Wow. I never heard of that tag before and went googling. There are some NSFL pics on Reddit of the triage at the Boston Marathon that are devastating. I've already posted some gruesome shit on here so I'm not going to link. At the very least, I posted a pic of Arredondo helping someone. If someone else wants to post them, that's fine. I just can't stomach it.
posted by phaedon at 12:00 PM on April 16, 2013


saulgoodman: If the media starts pushing the narrative aggressively that this must have been a foreign terrorist attack and we end up wasting a lot of time and resources investigating in that direction when the real culprits turn out to have been domestic, the murderous assholes responsible may have an opportunity to cover their tracks and advance their political agenda anyway, even without anybody taking credit.

I don't get the sense that the "media narrative" has much influence over how the FBI, the Boston PD and our national security/intelligence agencies are conducting this investigation.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:01 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


It is a lot easier to identify with an image than with a block of text.

And this has both good and bad, truth-telling and misleading effects.
posted by Miko at 12:02 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston Globe: Source: Investigators found circuit board believed used to trigger marathon bombs. #Bostonmarathon
posted by BobbyVan at 12:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


If you are wondering how the pressure cooker is involved it seems to be just a convenient shape in a innocuous device.

It also confines the blast until enough pressure builds up to rupture the enclosure, which increases the speed with which the shrapnel is propelled. This is why a pipe bomb is so much more dangerous than an equivalent amount of gunpowder set off in the open.
posted by localroger at 12:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I got MeMails from two quite literally next door neighbors with details on how to get home. My husband is flying in tonight, so it looks like I will be heading back tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest. Thanks so much for all of your help!
posted by sonika at 12:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


No, but it may have influence over the kinds of information they're offered from the public. Who didn't get tackled when someone was busy running down the Saudi guy?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:05 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


6,000 More Reasons to Love Boston
In the aftermath of the bombings that killed three and injured hundreds more, a spreadsheet publicly hosted by Google went viral. There, almost 6,000 people (5,817 by our sketchy count) offered their homes to out-of-town runners with nowhere to stay. It wasn’t just the number of potential hosts that inspired, but the descriptions of each place, peppered with notes like “LGBT friendly,” “Chinese and Japanese speaker available,” and “Stay as long as you need to.” Boston’s streets might not invite easy navigation. We might have a typically New England kind of sangfroid. You might avoid wearing a Yankee hat at Fenway. But when it counts, people here care for the strangers in their midst.
posted by ericb at 12:06 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


29 Reasons To Love Boston.
posted by ericb at 12:07 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


I don't get the sense that the "media narrative" has much influence over how the FBI, the Boston PD and our national security/intelligence agencies are conducting this investigation.

Media narratives can certainly drive public perception, and how useful is it to investigators if they get a zillion tips about suspicious "Arabs" the caller has seen doing [thing]? Tips have to checked; all that takes time and people. Signal-to-noise is a thing.
posted by rtha at 12:09 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I don't get the sense that the "media narrative" has much influence over how the FBI, the Boston PD and our national security/intelligence agencies are conducting this investigation.

Ask the Iraqi people how much influence the "media narrative," especially from the right, had on their country post-9/11 as opposed to Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, and the UAE.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:13 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Media narratives can certainly drive public perception, and how useful is it to investigators if they get a zillion tips about suspicious "Arabs" the caller has seen doing [thing]? Tips have to checked; all that takes time and people. Signal-to-noise is a thing.

But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

I was in DC during the sniper shootings, and remember well the people who said that "statistically speaking" we should be looking for a white "lone-wolf" when in fact the killers turned out to be two African Americans.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:14 PM on April 16, 2013


....our Marathon
April 16, 2013

Bostonians are rightly proud of our Marathon.

It is a uniquely American event which opens its arms to the world.

Any and all are welcome: men and women, able-bodied and disabled, young and old across the races and religions of the planet.

That anyone could target this celebration of global family is impossible to conceive.

Our hearts ache for the injured innocents; and we are so grateful and proud of our first-responders, our President, our Governor and Mayor for their calm strength and leadership in this tragic time.

~ James Taylor, April 15, 2013
posted by ericb at 12:16 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I was in DC during the sniper shootings, and remember well the people who said that "statistically speaking" we should be looking for a white "lone-wolf" when in fact the killers turned out to be two African Americans.

It was a white van they were looking for, which led to them missing the actual car they were in.
posted by dng at 12:17 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


It's okay that we all have our various limits. And I think that fewer than some might think are uncaring people who lack empathy, whether they do or don't look at these images or read these stories. Most people care.

On the other side of this, I think it can also potentially be an affront to another person's personal dignity to publish photos of them in circumstances like this--particularly if they aren't given a choice in the matter. For some, it can be embarrassing and painful to imagine that strangers might be gawking at a photo of them taken even in the most innocent unguarded moments; I can't imagine how bad it might be for someone who feels that way to find their image in everybody's twitter feed after being made to feel so vulnerable already. All I know is I wouldn't want my picture passed around like that without my consent. Does the press have to get signed photo releases from each individual before publishing photos in these kinds of circumstances? Do they even still have those, or am I showing my age?
posted by saulgoodman at 12:18 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


I'm not advocating for a blanket prohibition on media narratives, whatever that might look like. I'm saying that they're not All That, even if a shitload of people act like they are. Signal-to-noise is a thing, and so is critical thinking.
posted by rtha at 12:19 PM on April 16, 2013


But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

That story was posted five minutes ago. It's not like rtha wrote her comment with this information.
posted by hoyland at 12:19 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I don't get the sense that the "media narrative" has much influence over how the FBI, the Boston PD and our national security/intelligence agencies are conducting this investigation.

It has influence over the politicians they answer to, though.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:20 PM on April 16, 2013


Does the press have to get signed photo releases from each individual before publishing photos in these kinds of circumstances?

Not if you're in a public place. The right of the press, or anyone, to capture your image in a public place is pretty well established. If you were inside a store or restaurant, they'd likely need to secure a release, but any time you are in public your image can be taken and used by anyone, for any legal reason.
posted by Miko at 12:21 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The sports world is working overtime in being a class act (no sarcasm):
@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


That story was posted five minutes ago. It's not like rtha wrote her comment with this information.

That particular report has been out for quite a while. Here's an Al Jazeera write-up from 9:39am.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:25 PM on April 16, 2013


But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

Why is it that regular people become canonized for coming to the help of strangers, and yet nobody in this thread has bothered to thank the police that were there that day, and thanking God that we have an organization like the FBI for promising to find out who did this no matter what it takes?

I appreciate critical thinking, but unless you have information otherwise, you might as well be thankful that there are swarms of highly-trained individuals out there that have dedicated their strengths and their lives to solving mysteries like this one.

Don't even bother calling me hopelessly naive. I can say that when I lived in New York in 2001, the "media narrative" did not come from New York. It didn't come from the police or the firefighters or the politicians. So you can sit in your couch hundreds or thousands of miles away and pretend like you know what people on the ground are thinking. But don't let your take get in the way of actual reporting and investigation.
posted by phaedon at 12:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd.

Dammit, I've been a BoSox fan my whole life, I'm not used to the Yankees being nice.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

I don't see that quote in the linked article. Was it removed, or am I missing it?
posted by amarynth at 12:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd.

Having lived in Boston 7 years and New York almost 10, I know the vitriol between Yankees/Red Sox fans quite well...that is HUGE. Won't be a dry eye in the house I'm sure.
posted by sweetkid at 12:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [21 favorites]


Won't be a dry eye in the house I'm sure.

I am actually choking up right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:28 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Oh man, the Yankees playing Sweet Caroline is bringing tears to the eyes of this member of Red Sox nation.

(If you don't know, the song is played at the 7th inning stretch of every home game at Fenway.)
posted by sonika at 12:29 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Peter Sagal (of NPR and Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me fame) has posted his account of the explosions (he ran the marathon).
posted by devinemissk at 12:29 PM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


I don't see that quote in the linked article. Was it removed, or am I missing it?

It may have been removed -- the article is being continuously updated. See here instead (update at 8:36 p.m.).
posted by BobbyVan at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2013


Yeah. That's really sweet of the Yankees.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2013


PS: For a while "Sweet Caroline" was my ringtone and I'm totally going to set it up again.
posted by sonika at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't see that quote in the linked article. Was it removed, or am I missing it?

I don't see it either.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2013


I don't see that quote in the linked article. Was it removed, or am I missing it?

I can't find that quote, either. Sounds like another New York Post-sourced "Saudi bogeyman" comment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:30 PM on April 16, 2013


I find that looking at images is informative on one level, but always, always raises questions that can only be answered in words. Who is this? What happened to them? Why? Where are they going? Who is with them? What happened before? What happens next? Etc.

We communicate in both images and words - they do different things, and we find both things useful in their own ways.


Cognitively people learn and processes information differently. This is well established and and applied in pedagogical theory. Simplistically there is visual, auditory (reading falls here) and proprioceptive ways of learning and analysing information. While most people fall into some sort of combination of the type of learning one category is generally stronger then the others in specific situations.

I don't see how this wouldn't apply to the question of pictures or reading about whats in the pictures evoking empathy. For one person a picture could do more. For another reading about it could because of each's cognitive processing.
posted by Jalliah at 12:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


zombieflanders: "@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd."

Holy cow. That's pretty wonderful of them.
posted by zarq at 12:32 PM on April 16, 2013


Born and raised in bland as anything suburban Northern Virginia, one of my favorite things about ;iving in the Northeast (specifically New England/New York) is the strong sense of place people have. It's addictive but it adds an extra sting to things like this. Hard to describe.
posted by sweetkid at 12:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's a shame. All rights do come with a concomitant responsibility to exercise them responsibly, though, and I'm personally not convinced there's much valid public interest purpose served in throwing around images of people in these kinds of circumstances. The setting may be public, but the suffering and grief a lot of the people in these images are experiencing seem like intensely private and personal matters to me. But I'm an old fashioned grumpy old man, so YMMV.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:32 PM on April 16, 2013


There's no rational reason why seeing a picture like that should be any worse then reading about it.
Well, yeah there is, levels of abstractionism, writing is a greater layer of abstraction than photos. Writing is powerful, but it is a few steps removed from experience.
That isn't rational. The event itself would be just as bad had you seen an image or just read about it. Obviously an image produces a more visceral response
posted by delmoi at 12:33 PM on April 16, 2013


But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

You're really invested in this having been perpetrated by a Muslim, aren't you?
posted by dirigibleman at 12:34 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


That story was posted five minutes ago. It's not like rtha wrote her comment with this information.


It's been reported since 8 pm last night when I heard Anderson Cooper report it.
posted by Unified Theory at 12:34 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Al Jazeera article Bobby Van links to includes this "on the one hand / on the other hand" bit:
There are those who suspect it may have been a domestic attack. They point to the day – 'Patriots' Day'; that other attacks such as Columbine, Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing all happened in this same week, several years apart. They noticed there was no "chatter" ahead of the event that it may be targeted which discounts the usual suspects.

But the police have identified a 'black or dark skinned man with a foreign accent' that may be a person of interest. The double bombings – with other devices discovered – suggest similarities with attacks seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No mention of a backpack or an attempt to enter a restricted area, and this description could be conflated with the Saudi student, who was a witness, not a suspect. Please note that no official source is quoted. I would not take this as an official statement from the cops.
posted by maudlin at 12:35 PM on April 16, 2013


Holy crap, that Peter Sagal story linked above is a good (and scary) one.
posted by emjaybee at 12:35 PM on April 16, 2013


phaedon: agreed. From what I can tell, the police in this case have offered a model of self-restraint and responsible police-work so far. They really do seem to be taking their responsibilities very seriously.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:36 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


It may have been removed -- the article is being continuously updated. See here instead (update at 8:36 p.m.).

Yeah, a google phrase search shows it in the CNN story, but when you click through to the story itself, it's not there anymore.

Maybe we should call this an "unreliable media narrative." Or is that redundant?
posted by rtha at 12:36 PM on April 16, 2013


I may be wrong, but I think the last time Sweet Caroline was played by the Yankees, it was opening day of the new stadium. They had a 10-piece orchestra play the song, and went on to lose to Cleveland 22-4.
posted by zarq at 12:36 PM on April 16, 2013


"...but any time you are in public your image can be taken and used by anyone, for any legal reason."

You're correct up until that last bit. There are restrictions on how such images can be used. (In particular, they can't be used in advertisements).
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:37 PM on April 16, 2013


Why is it that regular people become canonized for coming to the help of strangers, and yet nobody in this thread has bothered to thank the police that were there that day, and thanking God that we have an organization like the FBI for promising to find out who did this no matter what it takes?

Well, I hate to sound condescending, but they're paid and trained to do that. It's their job to do that. While they do have my thanks, they're there because, well, they were ordered to be there, trained to be there and paid to be there.

Joe on the street? He has no duty of rescue. Nobody would blame him if he ran away -- indeed, the police would probably encourage him to do so. Joe stays not for duty, not for pay, but because Joe wants to help.

So, yeah, that's why Joe gets canonized more.
posted by eriko at 12:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


Dammit, I've been a BoSox fan my whole life, I'm not used to the Yankees being nice.

Yankees fan here with my mother-in-law and 3 of my best friends all from Boston. Cant wait for things to get back to normal.
posted by shothotbot at 12:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Obviously an image produces a more visceral response

Obviously nothing. That may be obvious to you and for you, but not for others - see Jaliah's comment above about the differing sensory processing people have. For some, heck, the auditory sense is the most crushing. My SO was saying how the recording he heard on the radio of someone wailing "help me, help me" has been his most haunting moment.
posted by Miko at 12:37 PM on April 16, 2013


And one of the most common things that are polished with them by people at home in their garages are brass ammo casings.

That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. This is not the gun thread.
posted by clorox at 12:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


They had a 10-piece orchestra play the song, and went on to lose to Cleveland 22-4.

So, two gifts for Boston.
posted by Iridic at 12:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


You're really invested in this having been perpetrated by a Muslim, aren't you?

That seems like an uncharitable reading of the comment. It seems like BobbyVan is simply suggesting that while many people in this thread have expressed a conviction that the perpetrator will end up being a right-wing extremist, we should perhaps withhold judgment and that we shouldn't be surprised if the perpetrator does, in fact, end up being a foreign national. I have no idea who did it and could care less about speculating at this point.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:39 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


I guess people can process things differently, but reading about the man with both legs gone and seeing it were two VERY different things for me. Seeing it made me sick to my stomach.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:39 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


dirigibleman: You're really invested in this having been perpetrated by a Muslim, aren't you?

Not really. I was the first person to post here that the Saudi national was cleared as having nothing to do with the attack.

I am invested, however, in pushing back against purely speculative fantasies about who might have been involved.

Blazecock Pileon: I can't find that quote, either. Sounds like another New York Post-sourced "Saudi boogeyman" comment.
[Update, 8:36 p.m. ET] Investigators have warned law enforcement officers to be on the lookout for a "darker-skinned or black male" with a possible foreign accent in connection with Monday's bombings at the Boston Marathon, according to a law enforcement advisory obtained by CNN.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:40 PM on April 16, 2013


nobody in this thread has bothered to thank the police

I think people were praising the police and other first responders pretty consistently, upthread. There's a big list of people who did good yesterday, and it's good (for me anyway) to focus on that.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:41 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure the "black hoodie, black backpack" person was mentioned several times on the EMS radio yesterday. If so, and if they haven't been located yet, it seems entirely too soon to make any speculation as to their involvement or lack of it.

It seems like the poster is simply suggesting that while many people in this thread have expressed a conviction that the perpetrator will end up being a right-wing extremist, we should perhaps withhold judgment and that we shouldn't be surprised if the perpetrator does, in fact, end up being a foreign national.

Why not just say this, then? I don't really understand the urge to counteract unwarranted speculation with further unwarranted speculation.
posted by muddgirl at 12:42 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


nobody in this thread has bothered to thank the police that were there that day, and thanking God that we have an organization like the FBI for promising to find out who did this no matter what it takes?

I find that making sort of empty comments-to-the-internet thanking people isn't actually that helpful. From what I can tell from my facebook, people are plenty appreciative of the police, the first responders, the runners, the City of Boston and many other folks. And I don't thank god for anything. Some do, excellent for them. Everyone has their own differing ways of being grateful, thankful, appreciative and just quietly in solidarity with. People telling other people how to feel is one of the worst parts of the aftermaths of these sorts of terrible events.
posted by jessamyn at 12:43 PM on April 16, 2013 [29 favorites]


It really should not be too much to ask for a cite that matches the link you posted, when you had repeatedly cast the perpetrator as Saudi (Muslim) from speculation that turned out to be false, from sources that are known to be unreliable.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:43 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


It seems like the poster is simply suggesting that while many people in this thread have expressed a conviction that the perpetrator will end up being a right-wing extremist,

Have you seen his other contributions to the thread? FWIW, if you meant to include me in the last part of that comment, I don't know who the perpetrators will end up being. I haven't expressed my own personal conviction. I only mentioned the likelihood of domestic right-wing terrorists being to blame in response to the many (spurious) links this particular contributor has posted in this thread prematurely suggesting evidence of links to foreign terrorists.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:45 PM on April 16, 2013


Wow, Sagal's account of crossing the finish line 5 minutes before the blast is chilling. When I learned he was near the explosion yesterday, I had wondered why (knowing he's capable of a sub-3:30), and now I know it was because he was running alongside a man with a visual impairment who was doing Boston for the first time. He must have been one of the last few dozen to finish. Glad they had each other at the finish line. Especially glad Sagal pushed his friend to run, rather than walk, that last mile.
posted by activitystory at 12:46 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


It really should not be too much to ask for a cite that matches the link you posted, when you had repeatedly cast the perpetrator as Saudi (Muslim) from speculation that turned out to be false, from sources that are known to be unreliable.

I posted my comment at 3:14 p.m. The article was updated at 3:36 p.m. It shouldn't be too much to ask for you to notice that sort of thing before you cast aspersions my way.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:47 PM on April 16, 2013


Mod note: Folks, leave it alone please.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Maybe y'all want to drop this exchange at this point and wait for something a little firmer?
posted by cortex at 12:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, I hate to sound condescending, but they're paid and trained to do that.

Trained and paid, and you know, dedicating their lives to protecting other people. It is totally condescending. You know what? Fuck it. [NSFW] This is the reality [/NSFW] on the ground there. If you click on that link, you'll go to a Reddit page with 4 pictures on there that are completely NSFL/NSFW. If you think there is room in those photos for cynicism, sarcasm, questioning peoples' motives or prejudices, arguing for or against speculative fantasies, questioning or downgrading or taking for granted the public institutions that consist of fellow citizens that are there to help us, then by all means fly to Boston and make your voice heard. I'm sure you're on top of things.

I find that making sort of empty comments-to-the-internet thanking people isn't actually that helpful.

That's too bad. Neither is sharing pre-emptive, speculative contempt.
posted by phaedon at 12:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


BobbyVan: I am invested, however, in pushing back against purely speculative fantasies about who might have been involved.

I sure support you in doing that. But please push back directly against that, not by posting alternative speculations. (Apologies if I've mischaracterized your postings; it's been a long thread.)
posted by benito.strauss at 12:48 PM on April 16, 2013


wait for something a little firmer

Sounds good to me.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:49 PM on April 16, 2013


chill phaedon
posted by edgeways at 12:51 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


Neil Diamond Performs 'Sweet Caroline' at Fenway Park ... and the crowd goes nuts!
posted by ericb at 12:53 PM on April 16, 2013


@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd.

So I grew up in New England, went to college in Worcester, moved to and lived in Boston for fifteen years after graduation, and worked for five years as an RN in a Boston hospital that is currently caring for critically injured patients from this event before relocating to Boston West (AKA San Francisco) in 2009. Anyone in my family who cares about baseball has always been a Red Sox fan. My grandmother in particular didn't miss a game, and once she got old enough that instant replay confused her, she listened to Joe Castiglione on WEEI.

My brain is genetically and culturally predisposed to find this information utterly incomprehensible, and the fact that I just feel moved and grateful instead is... well, it's kind of wonderful, honestly, in a moment where very little feels wonderful.
posted by jesourie at 12:53 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


It seems the Tea Party types among the pundits have already as good as declared this an act of Islamic terrorism, so hopefully, in the interest of actually getting at the truth, President Obama, investigating authorities, and the rest of the media will have the decency to ignore them into oblivion.

Sadly, initial impressions stay with the general public more than the truth, and so does "preaching to the choir" speculation, which conservative outlets have done with the unfounded "Islamist" notions. I mean, this is how propaganda works.

Because the right-wing media led hard with these speculations, many people will continue to believe these misconceptions and misrepresentations, regardless of the facts that are later determined by detectives, because they get bored and stop following the story when substantial details emerge, or because they have an ideological stake in considering later details lies from authorities they have been trained to distrust (i.e. Obama, FBI, etc. for the right wing extremists).
posted by aught at 12:53 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


The Onion hits the nail on the head yet again:

Authorities: Sadly, There Are Many People Who Could Have Done This
posted by Jacqueline at 12:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [13 favorites]


Lack of waste containers in subway stations and other densely populated places is often due to general concern for bombs, not specific threats. Removal of trash cans from a public area now is just like ramping up police presence: making it harder to commit similar crimes in the near future.
Bins were removed from a number of public places in the UK during the 80s and 90s due to the threat of IRA bombs, some of which had been left in bins. Sadly, but predictably, it was of no lasting use. Many of the latest IRA bombs were so big that they could never have fitted in a bin in the first place. But the Warrington bombs in 1993, which were placed in bins, scared me greatly because the victims were children, one of them my age the other only a toddler. But "bomb resistant bins" are a thing here now, and I distinctly remember as child watching a news program about their development. Sad times.

Tell your children that they're going to be okay and let them know that bad thoughts are better out than in.
posted by Jehan at 12:54 PM on April 16, 2013


Well, I hate to sound condescending, but they're paid and trained to do that.

Yeah, nobody gets into being a fireman or an EMT for the money, let me tell you ('cause it ain't there.) They do it as a way to sustain doing what they love, which is helping out during times of crisis. So in many ways they deserve exactly the same sort of praise that the spur-of-the-moment volunteers do.

That being said, I do get what you're saying about the bravery of the people jumping barriers, etc., to help. That's instinctive human courage of the purest kind, right there. Firefighters and police and medics have that as well, but it's tempered by the fact that we have thought about and trained for being in these situations before, so we have an extra layer of protection and reflex should our instinctive courage fail.

On the other hand, we also know what we're going into. I cannot possibly imagine the idea of secondary devices designed to kill rescuers was not forefront in absolutely every medic, cop and firefighter's mind, especially after the second blast. And they did it anyway, knowing where their duty lay. That's probably not uppermost in the thoughts of the "civilians" who just wanted to help.

Courage and praise ain't a zero sum game. Everybody was brave in a different way, but holy shit, everybody was brave.
posted by WidgetAlley at 12:55 PM on April 16, 2013 [42 favorites]


localroger: If that's the case then it definitely wasn't trained terrorists because that's not how they're trained.
I don't necessarily disagree. However, without speculating too much I would note that not all people are trained in terror bombing tactics by the same teachers. The tactics of the IRA may not be same as those taught by AQAP or what you might read in a Paladin Press book.

In their IED Fact Sheet [PDF], the DHS specifically warns against secondary devices targeting first responders and onlookers, and mentions multiple devices in the context of creating multiple scenes necessitating a response. However, it also specifically states that what people should do is move away from explosions. Yesterday's attack seems like an obvious evolution in tactics given the evolution in response.

Still, I'm not disagreeing with your overall analysis. The MO seems all wrong for this to be an expertly planned operation.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:56 PM on April 16, 2013


Why do Red Sox fans sing "Sweet Caroline" in Fenway during the 7th inning stretch?
"The song got its start at Fenway Park thanks to Amy Tobey, who was the ballpark’s music director from 1998 to 2004. She was responsible for choosing the music to be played between innings and picked Sweet Caroline simply because she had heard it played at other sporting events.

At first, Tobey played the song at random games sometime between the seventh and ninth innings, and only if the Red Sox were ahead. Tobey considered the song a good luck charm and it soon became something the fans anticipated.

But it wasn’t until 2002, when John Henry’s group bought the Red Sox, that Sweet Caroline become an official Fenway tradition. That’s when the new ownership requested that Tobey play the song during the eighth inning of every game.

Today Megan Kaiser is the person who chooses the between innings songs at Fenway Park, with the 8th inning exception.

Kaiser did add a slightly new touch to the playback of Diamond’s tune, as she turns off the sound during the most popular parts of the song. Red Sox fans know the words by heart now so they don’t need much help with the lyrics, and the song has become an important part of the ballpark atmosphere.

“Singing Sweet Caroline. That’s cool,” said Red Sox third basemen Mike Lowell when asked about the vibe at Fenway Park."
posted by ericb at 12:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Why is it that regular people become canonized for coming to the help of strangers, and yet nobody in this thread has bothered to thank the police that were there that day, and thanking God that we have an organization like the FBI for promising to find out who did this no matter what it takes?

Also, it goes without saying that I'm proud of the first responders and military personnel who were there. Bravo, everyone.

--

My heart goes out to the people of Boston and the families of the runners and first responders.

--

As awful as this story is, at least this is a reminder that a few people may do some awful things, but all these images of first responders rushing to the scene, of runners who are nurses helping out, of marathon runners racing to the hospital to give blood ...The amount of goodness, at least for the moment, overwhelms the amount of evil by an enormous margin.

It didn't take me too long to find those quotes, phaedon.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


I guess people can process things differently, but reading about the man with both legs gone and seeing it were two VERY different things for me. Seeing it made me sick to my stomach.

It's sorta off topic but relevant to this sub conversation. My personal example. I fall into the strong 'doing' category which tends to cover a minority of people. I learn and process information better by physically practicing (skill or sport) or having something physical occuring when other types are being presented. (doodling, yawning and fidgeting during lectures, using smell when studying).

I don't lack empathy for stuff like this at all but I have no problem, seeing pictures or reading about things like this without getting horribly upset. That picture in question was horrible but emotionally wasn't super affecting.

It's not that pictures don't evoke a response, they do but it usually takes some time and sometimes when it's something big it takes my brain to 'physically' take me through it in some way. It may sound weird to a lot of people but this usually happens during daydreams, zone outs or actual night time dreams. When 9/11 happened I spent the entire day glued to the tv and reading about it online. I was upset and stressed. It wasn't until the next morning though after I woke up from some weird montage dream where a lot of what a read, saw and heard was felt physically in dream world that I cried my eyes out for the tragedy of it all.
posted by Jalliah at 12:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


It didn't take me too long to find those quotes, phaedon.

Good. I spoke too broadly. I was responding to a very specific comment, and I'm glad that not everyone on the internet is an asshat. My apologies for losing my temper.
posted by phaedon at 1:01 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Actually, on looking back, phaedon's remark does go a little too far--I glossed over the chiding-people-for-not-ever-thanking-the-police aspects a little too much when I initially responded to that comment. But it seems to me the police do deserve a little extra praise in this case for not feeding the media circus like authorities sometimes do in similar circumstances. That's one area where they really have gone above and beyond the usual in terms of their professionalism so far, in my opinion.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:01 PM on April 16, 2013


At the risk of being pedantic about something that's really not that important, Sweet Caroline is actually played mid-inning in the eighth. The seventh inning stretch features Take Me Out To The Ballgame.
posted by jesourie at 1:02 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston Bomb Blasts Awaken Veterans' IED Fears
Like other combat veterans at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, he immediately crouched down, exchanging a knowing glance with a woman next to him who said she was an Iraq combat veteran. "We immediately recognized that noise," he said. "Then we kind of dismissed that thought -- no, no way this was an IED."

But the blasts were from explosives, and with them came the awful realization that the perils Kenney and others volunteered to fight on distant battlefields have come directly home.
[...]
Two months ago the White House released a new counter-IED strategy that said the administration is "expanding and broadening its counter-IED focus" in response to the evolving threat. An internal U.S. threat assessment provided to The Huffington Post recently warned that Americans should "expect IED attacks by homegrown violent extremists (HVE) and individuals." The assessment said "high profile events will present additional targets."
posted by zombieflanders at 1:03 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


You're correct up until that last bit. There are restrictions on how such images can be used. (In particular, they can't be used in advertisements).

I'm pretty sure we won't have to worry about that exception in this case.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:06 PM on April 16, 2013


Sweet Caroline is one of those songs that are annoying, cloying earworms when heard on the radio - Mom music.

When sung aloud in a group, it takes on another character, and old-time broadway number, or a ballad performed by a young man in a letter sweater and a straw boater with a ukelele: the genial anthem of a team from before they wore ball gloves... I know it's a recent addition as Red Sox traditions and american music goes, but it feels like something that's been always done.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:07 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Just told someone in MeMail that the thing that would really break my brain is if the Yankees also did Dirty Water, but even I think that's pushing it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:09 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I think the regular guys who leaped in to help are avatars for us, the helpless bystanders, hundreds of miles away. I can hardly even conceive of what police and firefighters and EMS do. I understand better, because of my personal work history, what it is like to be a journalist who runs towards a disaster. But the bystander who rushes to help instead of running away says, "That guy helping shift the barriers is like me -- if I were there, I could help. I could be brave. This is a terrible thing but look how many good people there are, people just like me. Not just police and doctors who know all about self-sacrifice in emergencies, but regular guys, guys like me."

I am profoundly grateful for everyone who runs towards a disaster, who overcomes every animal instinct we have to run away and hide from danger. I am extra-grateful for public safety officers and emergency responders who train and practice and face these grim scenarios over and over again, in practice, so that they can protect and help us when they happen. And I am also grateful for regular people who, faced with others in danger or in pain, run towards that.

We had a little emergency with a child earlier this year where we had to call 911, and the bystanders were so awesome -- SO awesome. I mean literally everyone within earshot came running to help us, and some of them were trained first responders. The EMTs were fantastic too, when they arrived 90 seconds later, but I was incredibly overwhelmed by the way random people came racing to help, before the reassuring people in uniforms with medical equipment got there. And I thought to myself, if I ever see something like this happening, I hope I'm one of these people, who runs to help and knows what to do. So that night I signed up for the very next Red Cross First Aid/CPR class available in my city.

I think it's a little late in my life to think about being a cop or a firefighter or a doctor when I grow up, but I can definitely be a regular person who runs towards, who knows how to give emergency wound care or do CPR or just hold someone's hand.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:10 PM on April 16, 2013 [26 favorites]


MeFi's own cstross: PSA: Ignore the news.

"Terrible though the bombings may be, we won't learn anything significant about the responsible parties for some time: and in the meantime I see no reason to allow my emotional state to be manipulated for the benefit of advertisers."
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:13 PM on April 16, 2013 [18 favorites]


Sweet Caroline sounds old but is really a recent tradition. If you're looking for an old tradition, Tessie is what you want:
the singing of the original "Tessie" by the Royal Rooters fan club helped the Boston Americans win the first World Series in 1903.
Here's the original version.
And here's the Dropkick Murphys singing about singing Tessie.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:15 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


The MO seems all wrong for this to be an expertly planned operation.

Exactly. It's like the bomber had read about using the second bomb and executed your plan -- get the people running from the first bomb -- which is actually not all that good, since people tend to scatter from the initial blast, so you'd only catch the ones who happen to flee in the direction of your second bomb. It's really pretty much a waste of the second bomb, since you're just retargeting a small fraction of the people who were around the first device.

The whole point of the one-two punch is to wait until the first blast scene becomes an attraction for responders, and when they're well concentrated around the victims and scene take out a bunch of higher value targets who you've brought together. It's exactly as if whoever did this had read a few books and websites.

Also, I find it interesting that both powder and tumbling shot are things someone who loads their own ammo would have a source for.
posted by localroger at 1:15 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


This seems like a good time to say that your local volunteer fire brigade, Community Emergency Response Team (which even large cities have), Red Cross, volunteer ambulance corps, or reserve Sheriff's Deputy department is probably really, really strapped for reliable volunteers right now. And we need people to do a million different things, including making us healthy food when we're on shift, helping us figure out our damn 501(c)3 paperwork, fundraising (as we are all stretched further and further by "fiscally responsible" policies), and lots of other things that you can be a part of even if you never ever want to run into a burning building or tourniquet an artery.

The big events get a lot of attention for public service people, but we do this stuff every single day on a smaller scale. If you decide you want to be a trained helper, please Memail me and I'll check and see what might be a good fit for you in your area.
posted by WidgetAlley at 1:18 PM on April 16, 2013 [16 favorites]


I am very pleased to read that they are giving Boston finisher’s medals to everyone picking up their bag today. The people who were stopped at mile 26, mile 25… even those who were going to take 6 hours to finish or longer… achieved something equal to those who ran a 3:30.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:19 PM on April 16, 2013 [21 favorites]


If you're looking for an old tradition, Tessie is what you want

Yeah, but Tessie is a terrible song. Overagressive with awkward lyrics (fans rushing the stadium to scare away the other team? What?).

I love the Dropkick Murphy's on general principle, tho.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:20 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


> [The pressure cooker] also confines the blast until enough pressure builds up to rupture the enclosure, which increases the speed with which the shrapnel is propelled.

Yep.

I had a habit of calling pressure cookers "cooking bombs" -- not because of the explosive risk (well, not *directly*) but because of their resemblance to bomb calorimeters (esp in the hands of someone liable to burn her food). Suddenly my little joke has some very ugly associations... I will most certainly NOT be saying that any more.

For the past few years, my brother has been a medical volunteer at the marathon finish line. He sat this year out, as it happened, and after a few frantic phonecalls I found him safe & sound in Cambridge yesterday. This thread has been my rock.

My heart goes out to everyone affected by this senseless tragedy.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:21 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


In addition to learning first aid and CPR, I keep wondering how I could make tourniquets out of my clothing or whatever else I regularly have on my person at any given time. I have a hard-enough time opening plastic bags with my teeth; how can I start tearing strips of material like cotton or polyester?
posted by CancerMan at 1:21 PM on April 16, 2013


What comes next: Here’s how the feds will investigate the Boston Marathon bombing
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:23 PM on April 16, 2013


The Atlantic Wire: Pressure Cookers, Nails, BBs, and Bags: What We Know About the Boston Bombs
posted by BobbyVan at 1:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


but I can definitely be a regular person who runs towards

It just takes one person doing the thing that makes sense to get most of the crowd out of shock. People will listen if you start telling them what to do.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 1:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


One of my favorite little mefi meetup memories was visiting New York and sitting around in a bar with a bunch of mefites, bullshitting the evening away when Sweet Caroline came on in the background, and when the chorus was coming around ocherdraco threw out some jazzhands and started singing along and basically sucked all of us in immediately.

I got a bit of it on camera since i was filming a bunch of that trip, and stuck it into my video of that day.

I'd never really like the song before—just some cloying cornball Neil Diamond nonsense—but ever since it's been kind of a warm happy thing for me whenever I trip across it on the radio somewhere.
posted by cortex at 1:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [23 favorites]


localroger: " Exactly. It's like the bomber had read about using the second bomb and executed your plan -- get the people running from the first bomb -- which is actually not all that good, since people tend to scatter from the initial blast, so you'd only catch the ones who happen to flee in the direction of your second bomb. It's really pretty much a waste of the second bomb, since you're just retargeting a small fraction of the people who were around the first device."

There was a report last night that a total of seven bombs were discovered, but five had not gone off. Is that still accurate? Because if so, it's possible that the final deployment could have looked much different than what actually happened.
posted by zarq at 1:27 PM on April 16, 2013


Also, I find it interesting that both powder and tumbling shot are things someone who loads their own ammo would have a source for.

I find it interesting that fertilizer and barrels are things someone who owns a farm would have a source for.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:28 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


There was a report last night that a total of seven bombs were discovered, but five had not gone off. Is that still accurate? Because if so, it's possible that the final deployment could have looked much different than what actually happened.

No. To the BPD's knowledge there were only two.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:28 PM on April 16, 2013


There was a report last night that a total of seven bombs were discovered, but five had not gone off. Is that still accurate?

Current reports are no, none of those devices were bombs.
posted by eriko at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2013


Ah. Thanks for the clarification.
posted by zarq at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2013


There was a report last night that a total of seven bombs were discovered, but five had not gone off. Is that still accurate?

No, I think these reports from yesterday were based on the Bomb Squad detonating "suspect packages", not on the Bomb Squad finding actual bombs. The news conferences today all agreed that no additional bombs were found yesterday.
posted by muddgirl at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2013


Gah, should preview.
posted by muddgirl at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2013


CancerMan: This is--well, not this, but god knows what kind of emergency--is why I carry a small pocket knife everywhere that permits such things.
posted by Sequence at 1:30 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


zarq: There was a report last night that a total of seven bombs were discovered, but five had not gone off. Is that still accurate? Because if so, it's possible that the final deployment could have looked much different than what actually happened.
BobbyVan's link—thanks for that BV, that's a good link—says there were only two bombs.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:31 PM on April 16, 2013


muddgirl, thanks. No worries.
posted by zarq at 1:31 PM on April 16, 2013


Any opportunistic politicians seeing the harm done to the Richard family as a demonstration of the need for national health and disability assistance?

My colleague and I, both part time/ no benefits, were discussing that the son of a college friend of hers lost a foot from this, and his 3 y.o. got hit by shrapnel, and then they were separated by emergency responders and taken to different hospitals. Yet the first thing I wanted to blurt out was, “What kind of insurance do they have?”

And just to be reminded of what a small world it really is - turns out that at least two people I met at a NASASocial event live close to this scene. Both OK, but at least one couldn't go home last night.

"@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd."

Jesus, all this grief, and it’s THIS that put a lump in my throat? And I’m not even really a baseball fan. (Well, enough of one to NEVER root for the Yankees – except in the 2001 World Series. And you know why.)
posted by NorthernLite at 1:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


posted by EvaDestruction at 11:52 AM on April 16 [2 favorites +] [!]

I hope to god that's your rollergirl name.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:34 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


NYT on marathon security challenges
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:34 PM on April 16, 2013


But is it just a "media narrative" that police were told to be on the lookout "for a 'darker-skinned or black male' with a possible foreign accent [who] was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion"?

It seems like some are hoping for a certain narrative and are in touch with others who have the same hope.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:36 PM on April 16, 2013


I got a bit of it on camera since i was filming a bunch of that trip, and stuck it into my video of that day.

Drunks! ; )
posted by ericb at 1:37 PM on April 16, 2013


> I don't really remember hearing about the same kind of over-reaction events in other cities

I vote confirmation bias. e.g. Tiny Ohio town freaked out by Mario prank

Star Simpson was arrested at Logan where 1/2 the 9/11 planes originated, wearing a mess of wires on her hoodie. I'm in the "don't waste money on security theater" camp and agree the Aqua Teen thing was an over reaction, but Ms. Simpson shoulda taken some sewing lessons.
posted by morganw at 1:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I remember when my aunt's pressure cooker blew up in her kitchen. There were stray lentils being cleaned off kitchen surfaces for years afterwards, it seemed. Ball bearings? That is terrifying.
posted by bardophile at 1:38 PM on April 16, 2013


Boston Globe's Dan Shaughnessy:

"So this was a good place to make a statement, and now our quaint little event will never be the same.

We won’t be able to walk into Trinity Church or the Boston Public Library without thinking about the day the bombs went off. We won’t be able to step into the Lenox Hotel — where Red Auerbach lived when he coached the Celtics — without thinking about spectators being maimed. We will forever remember the day nobody could call anybody on a cellphone in Copley Square.

Everybody will have a story."
posted by anastasiav at 1:39 PM on April 16, 2013


We won’t be able to walk into Trinity Church or the Boston Public Library without thinking about the day the bombs went off. We won’t be able to step into the Lenox Hotel — where Red Auerbach lived when he coached the Celtics — without thinking about spectators being maimed. We will forever remember the day nobody could call anybody on a cellphone in Copley Square.

Dear Boston,

I really, really wish you weren't forced to join this particular club. But the silver lining is - you're not alone.

Love,

New York
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:41 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Any opportunistic politicians seeing the harm done to the Richard family as a demonstration of the need for national health and disability assistance?

Well, I also read about the two roofer brothers who had recently been laid off, one with five kids. Each brother lost part of a leg. UGH.

Several times over the last day I've wiggled my toes just to be glad I still have intact legs, and I don't even need legs to do my job.
posted by sweetkid at 1:43 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


localroger: It's exactly as if whoever did this had read a few books and websites.
It occurs to me there's a much simpler explanation: The time delay between the two detonations could be as simple as the time it took to activate two timers in succession, both set to go off in n minutes/hours.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:44 PM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


"United We Stand" banner on Yankee Stadium
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


Fuck it, roomthreeseventeen, that finally did it. Tears. I can't wait until I say "Fuck the Yankees" and mean it, again. I wish I never had a reason not to say it.
posted by gaspode at 1:47 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


These Soldiers Did the Boston Marathon Wearing 40-Pound Packs. Then They Saved Lives.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:47 PM on April 16, 2013 [22 favorites]


I noticed those soldiers when I watched the video yesterday. Thanks for linking to their story, roomthreeseventeen.
posted by muddgirl at 1:49 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


"@Yankees: Tonight there will be a special moment of silence & Fenway favorite Sweet Caroline @ end of 3rd."

The editorial cartoon in today's Daily News was simply a man in a Yankees uniform with his arm around the back of a man in a Red Sox uniform, and that also touched me more than it should have.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:50 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jezebel: The People Who Watch Marathons
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:51 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Experts Skeptical Home-Grown Terrorists Were Behind Boston Bombings
posted by BobbyVan at 1:51 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


As a lifelong Sox fan, one thing I have always said about the Yankees is that they are a classy organization. They understand their place in the history of baseball, and they understand that there is a certain responsibility that goes with that place. Keeping the uniform pristine, not selling naming rights to the new Stadium, etc. I am not at all surprised at the way the Yankees organization is embracing a wounded Red Sox Nation, and I thank them deeply for it.

I'm with gaspode. Can't wait 'till I can hate the Yankees again.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:51 PM on April 16, 2013 [13 favorites]


And one of the most common things that are polished with them by people at home in their garages are brass ammo casings.

Actually, ball bearings are not generally used for brass - you want something like walnut shells instead.Or corn cobs. There are strong opinions about this. But my point is, it's unlikely someone had them just lying around and decided to use them.

In addition, most reloaders do not have black powder around - it's way too dangerous and not used in modern firearms. They have smokeless powder, which you emphatically would not use to make bombs.
posted by corb at 1:52 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Experts Skeptical Home-Grown Terrorists Were Behind Boston Bombings

That's a pretty deceptive headline. "Home grown terrorists" is not equivalent to right-wing anti-government terrorists, which is what the article is actually talking about.
posted by muddgirl at 1:55 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Experts Skeptical Home-Grown Terrorists Were Behind Boston Bombings

Misleading headline, and more speculation in the absence of any solid evidence about anything. Let the FBI and police do their job.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 1:57 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Experts Skeptical Home-Grown Terrorists Were Behind Boston Bombings

And yet most of the apart from the intro article discusses that very possibility. Example:
Instead of the work of organized movements, the attack could have been the work of a single person, either motivated by ideology or someone who’s clinically insane. Eric Rudolph, an anti-abortion and anti-gay activist, set off bombs at the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta that killed three people to promote his ideology.

If a domestic terrorist was involved, experts say it’s likely they were a part of a virulently antigovernment, anti-tax group that fit under the broader “Patriot Movement.”

People that identify with this movement aren’t looking for less government or less taxes, but fundamentally believe the U.S. government has been delegitimized though a slow-boiling, malicious conspiracy.
Either the editor slapped a misleading headline on there (not unknown for the National Journal) or the writer's thesis switched somewhere along the way.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:57 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I was volunteering for the marathon in Natick yesterday, and saw those soldiers start coming through in groups as we were setting up around 8:30-9am, and continuing all day until we left at 1:30pm. Some National Guard, some ROTC from local colleges. They were definitely hauling ass at an impressive clip.
posted by angels in the architecture at 1:57 PM on April 16, 2013


I never thought I'd be raising my children in a world where the Yankees are being so nice to the Red Sox.
posted by padraigin at 1:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [15 favorites]


"United We Stand" banner on Yankee Stadium

*jaw drops*

Nice. :)
posted by zarq at 1:59 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Outstanding. Very classy move, Yankees. My genetically-mandated Yankee hate is definitely on-hold. For now. I look forward to the day when we will only have to stand united against the threat of the National League.
posted by rmd1023 at 2:01 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Either the editor slapped a misleading headline on there (not unknown for the National Journal) or the writer's thesis switch somewhere along the way.

I think the first part of the article supports the headline (it quotes recognized experts on right-wing domestic extremist/terror groups who voice doubts); the second part is speculative hedging by the author ("if the experts I just quoted are wrong, then...").
posted by BobbyVan at 2:03 PM on April 16, 2013


BobbyVan: Experts Skeptical Home-Grown Terrorists Were Behind Boston Bombings

muddgirl: “That's a pretty deceptive headline. "Home grown terrorists" is not equivalent to right-wing anti-government terrorists, which is what the article is actually talking about.”

Not only that, but the subheadline – "Attacking the Boston Marathon would be an unusual target for anti-government groups." – is so obvious that it's clear that there's not much there.

I mean, really – at this point, the most remarkable and striking thing we know about what happened yesterday is that the Boston Marathon on Tax Day isn't a likely or attractive target for anybody. Right? Give any significant terrorist cause, and we can come up with at least a dozen better targets, be they right-wing, left-wing, foreign, domestic, whatever. It's not even a nationally well-known event, at least not enough to be attractive as a target. I know plenty of people who hadn't even heard of the Boston Marathon until yesterday, and I'm in New Mexico in the USA. Why would anybody pick this? Even in terrorist terms, this is senseless and stupid; it lacks even the barest symbolism. Which is why the whole thing is so confusing.
posted by koeselitz at 2:05 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Perhaps the target is less of a factor, rather it is the amount of people who would be gathered and could be directly affected.
posted by CancerMan at 2:14 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Right now, pretty much all of the whodunit speculation -- here and in the media at large -- is reminding me of the great Anne Lamott line: "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

I think people are creating (and spreading) clues in the image of the people they hate, whether it's "pressure cooker -- sounds like Afghan jihadis" or "ball bearings -- sounds like gun nuts."

Not that I can do anything about this of course, but I really wish people would take a moment before they promulgate a theory and ask themselves: "does this particular idea just happen to correspond with beliefs I already hold?" That's the stuff to be especially skeptical about, I think, and perhaps the stuff to think twice about spreading.
posted by neroli at 2:16 PM on April 16, 2013 [42 favorites]


"United We Stand" banner on Yankee Stadium.

Jesus Christ, Yankees ... now you're making me cry. I promise I'll never say "Yankees Suck!" ever again.
posted by ericb at 2:19 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


They have smokeless powder, which you emphatically would not use to make bombs.

Wait, what? A guy I knew (ahem) made plenty of (idiotic) pipe bombs out of smokeless powder when he was a bored teenager in suburbia. They were clearly explosive - I don't know how much energy or whatever, but they were very loud and threw fragments very far, embedding into trees and such. It's basically a miracle that this guy was not injured.
posted by Mid at 2:21 PM on April 16, 2013


I predict ericb will be looking for an edit window extension of several months before September.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [26 favorites]


Bulgaroktonos --- shhhhh!
posted by ericb at 2:24 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Snopes page for the Boston Marathon Bombing is a good place to check whether something has already been debunked or retracted.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


CancerMan: “Perhaps the target is less of a factor, rather it is the amount of people who would be gathered and could be directly affected.”

Even in that case, I don't think it makes much sense. The Boston Marathon is big, but there are many much bigger sporting events. Perhaps somebody thought there'd be a very large concentration of people at the finish line, and that there'd be less security than you'd have to go through at a stadium? I guess, and there was a crowd, but it certainly wasn't a massive crowd as far as I can tell.

I don't know. I mean, I know speculation is a bad idea, but the profile I've worked up so far of whoever did this is: "an awful person who also happens to be a complete idiot." There's probably some personal bias in there, if I'm going to be honest.
posted by koeselitz at 2:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


"...you're not alone.

Love, New York"

...and also, from London. The horrors that we've seen and heard make me remember the July day when we saw blood and smoke and crumpled, blasted metal in our own familiar streets and squares. Thinking back, some of the things to remember most are the days afterwards - people making the effort to be extra kind and gentle. Meeting friends after work, all of us having it brought home to us how important we were to each other after the initial scramble to confirm people were safe...the relief when someone checked in online. Walking to the market on Saturday, where a man was singing "Redemption Song", everyone standing around to listen, and then the most heartfelt applause.

Standing outside in Soho a week afterwards for the silence, with all the cars stopped. I've never, ever heard London still before. Even at 3 or 4 am there's always noise - but not then. A fire engine stationary outside the building - everyone got out of it and stood in the road. After the silence, the whole street applauding them.

London can be tough, and not always in a good way, but people were very kind to each other in the days and weeks following the bombs. It made everyone think about what was important, and along with the awful sadness I saw some of the very best of the city - a human solidarity that I've never forgotten.

These are horrible, senseless acts. I send all the love I can to people in Boston. I know they'll be taking good care of one another, and it will help.
posted by tardigrade at 2:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


I disagree with your "experts" BobbyVan. The Atlanta Olympic bombings were done by a domestic terrorist and followed a similar script.
posted by humanfont at 2:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Maybe y'all want to drop this exchange at this point and wait for something a little firmer?

Can we do something about that?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:29 PM on April 16, 2013


...and also, from London.

...and also, from DC. New Yorkers always forget that DC got hit on 9/11, too.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


Standing outside in Soho a week afterwards for the silence, with all the cars stopped. I've never, ever heard London still before. Even at 3 or 4 am there's always noise - but not then

Man, that is the same experience I had on 9/11/02 in lower Manhattan. The most silent morning ever. Somebody was going around with a tape recorder recording the silence. You could hear footsteps.
posted by phaedon at 2:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I shuddered when I heard pressure cookers. I've never owned one - they were a staple in my mom's kitchen, but when I was a little girl, she called one a bomb and that is always how I've thought of them. They always seemed very scary and unsafe to me. Now, even more so. (My Mom, the kitchen terrorist.)
posted by madamjujujive at 2:41 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The horrors that we've seen and heard make me remember the July day when we saw blood and smoke and crumpled, blasted metal in our own familiar streets and squares.

In a phone conversation with a friend in Germany we spoke this afternoon about the 2005 London bus bombings, the 2004 Madrid train bombings, the 2002 Bali bombing, the 2010 Moscow Metro bombings, etc. Not happy to join the club, but ever aware that this shit sucks! Big time!
posted by ericb at 2:41 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


If Boston has just under 250,000 households and over 8,000 Bostonians have offered to open their homes to perfect strangers that is over 3.23% of all the households in Boston. Even considering that some portion of those homes are likely just outside of Boston's borders and do not count towards the denominator, Wow.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Man, that is the same experience I had on 9/11/02 in lower Manhattan. The most silent morning ever. Somebody was going around with a tape recorder recording the silence. You could hear footsteps.

Way back on the evening of 9/11, hours after the FAA had ordered the "ground stop" for all aircraft, I recall heading out for a stroll (Southern California) and noting the quiet above.

Much later that night, reading in bed, there was that familiar sound again, but it didn't register. I heard it, but I'd forgotten about the ground stop. But then it registered. It could only have been the sound of an Air Force or Navy (or Marine) jet, conducting a patrol, way on the other side of the continent.
posted by notyou at 2:47 PM on April 16, 2013


As a Masshole native (and Red Sox fan) who grew up watching dozens of Yankees/Red Sox games at Fenway through the 70s, 80s, 90s and naughts, I feel reasonably confident that the "Yankees suck!" chant will be heard the next time NY visits Boston on July 19th. Hoping, though, that it will be modified to something more politic, like, "Yankees suck -- but not as much as they used to." (Sorry, but I'm old enough to remember Bucky fucking Dent.)
posted by wensink at 2:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


(fwiw pressure cookers are pretty safe nowadays, unless intentionally tampered with. I use one fairly often. they are certainly safer than automobiles which so many folks use without a second thought)
posted by edgeways at 2:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Wait, what? A guy I knew (ahem) made plenty of (idiotic) pipe bombs out of smokeless powder when he was a bored teenager in suburbia. They were clearly explosive - I don't know how much energy or whatever, but they were very loud and threw fragments very far, embedding into trees and such.

I'm sorry - you're right, you certainly could use it, but from my recollection, you would have to work harder to get the same effect - that things like black powder and such are much more effective. I could absolutely be wrong, though!
posted by corb at 2:51 PM on April 16, 2013


BU just announced the third victim was a student. No name until family agrees to release that info.
posted by annsunny at 2:52 PM on April 16, 2013


In addition, most reloaders do not have black powder around - it's way too dangerous and not used in modern firearms. They have smokeless powder, which you emphatically would not use to make bombs.

Corb, I think you are assuming that the bombers had experience. I was a 55 Delta, EOD, and my gut says they didn't have any experience. This might sound callous, but a real bomber could have annihilated everyone within 30 feet.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Fear not, true believers! Alex Jones is on the case! A Family Guy episode predicted this false flag attack, you see.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:54 PM on April 16, 2013


Pressure cookers were just in the xkcd What if? blog.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:55 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


madamjujujive: "I shuddered when I heard pressure cookers. I've never owned one - they were a staple in my mom's kitchen, but when I was a little girl, she called one a bomb and that is always how I've thought of them. They always seemed very scary and unsafe to me. Now, even more so. (My Mom, the kitchen terrorist.)"

Yeah, there's a reason I wasn't allowed in the kitchen when my mom used the pressure cooker. Frankly, exploding pressure cookers are such a cliche that I'm a little surprised they seem to be dismissed as "just a container" in the press I've seen, even if they were not actually under pressure.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on April 16, 2013


(fwiw pressure cookers are pretty safe nowadays, unless intentionally tampered with. I use one fairly often. they are certainly safer than automobiles which so many folks use without a second thought)

Seconded. I'd even say they're very safe, not just pretty safe, when used properly. Much safer than the generic go-to of 'driving to work everyday' standard.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:56 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jasper White's Summer Shack Mourns Loss of Krystle Campbell
The Summer Shack family is devastated by the loss of our beloved Krystle. No words can describe how much she meant to all of us. She was an incredible woman, always full of energy and hard at work, but never too tired to share her love and a smile with everyone. She was an inspiration to all of us. Please keep her and her family in your thoughts and prayers. We are continuing to remain positive for Karen [friend and former co-worker] and ask that you keep her in your prayers as well.
Jimmy's Director Remembers Krystle Campbell as Likable, Hard Working
... Campbell had been a manager at the restaurant for three months.
posted by ericb at 3:02 PM on April 16, 2013


To clarify, I was referring to the older type of pressure cooker.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:02 PM on April 16, 2013


Frankly, exploding pressure cookers are such a cliche that I'm a little surprised they seem to be dismissed as "just a container" in the press I've seen, even if they were not actually under pressure.

I think the press is assuming that they weren't plugged in.
posted by msalt at 3:02 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


The New Yorker got a call from the woman near Kenmore Square.
posted by donnagirl at 3:03 PM on April 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


Amid The Chaos And Carnage In Boston, Heroes Emerge.
posted by ericb at 3:05 PM on April 16, 2013


Runners unite in online movement to #runforBoston.
posted by ericb at 3:07 PM on April 16, 2013



The New Yorker got a call from the woman near Kenmore Square.
posted by donnagirl at 6:03 PM on April 16 [+] [!]

Ugh that last sentence in the link made me cry. What people these are.
posted by sweetkid at 3:08 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


This might sound callous, but a real bomber could have annihilated everyone within 30 feet.

I agree with this. This stinks heavily of a learned amateur. I can't wait to see what the "circuit board" they found is.

Also, I agree a typical reloader wouldn't necessarily have tumbling shot or black powder lying around. But he would (1) know tumbling shot exists and (2) have sources for both. The places that sell walnut shells sell tumbling shot, and the places that sell smokeless powder also sell black for the muzzle loaders.
posted by localroger at 3:08 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Gay Officer is Among Three Boston Marathon Police Responders Shown on Powerful 'Sports Illustrated' Cover.
posted by ericb at 3:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


"I think the press is assuming that they weren't plugged in."

I don't think the bomber used electric pressure cookers!
posted by Room 641-A at 3:13 PM on April 16, 2013


So listen, I'm reading all this emerging, detailed coverage of the individual victims and their horrific injuries, many of them still in ICU, many others facing multiple surgeries, and I can't help worrying about their medical bills. How was that handled after 9/11? If the injured in Boston are going to have to cover their own costs, is there somewhere specific folks can make a donation to help them meet the medical, sick leave and rehab costs?
posted by DarlingBri at 3:18 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The more I think about it the more the choice of materials really seems to narrow it down to a small number of niche hobbies.

Who uses tumblers? Machinists, shooters, lapidarists... anyone else? All of us get the same catalogs featuring each others' supplies, which is how I know tumbling shot exists.

And we haven't established exactly what the explosive was, but it was LE not HE and burned with an orange flame and white smoke. Way upthread eriko made the case for powder. What he missed was the pressure containment; it was a deflagration, consistent with powder, which turned into a detonation because of the pressure containment. But not the kind of detonation you'd have gotten with a real explosive like TNT.

So who knows where to buy gunpowder? I don't have it bookmarked, but I don't need to accelerate my gemstones to the speed of sound.
posted by localroger at 3:18 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think the bomber used electric pressure cookers!

It's easy to find older stovetop pressure cookers at thrift shops because they're less safe and harder to use than modern ones with temperature control and built-in heaters.
posted by localroger at 3:20 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


ericb: "Gay Officer is Among Three Boston Marathon Police Responders Shown on Powerful 'Sports Illustrated' Cover."

I really wish I lived in a world where such articles weren't necessary. Where it would simply be understood and acknowledged by the general population that anyone, no matter their profession, might be gay. And that would not be worth remarking upon.
posted by zarq at 3:21 PM on April 16, 2013 [14 favorites]


They could've been electric pressure cookers -- the issue is the construction of the thing so it holds high pressure before rupturing. I'd assume newer ones would have more safety features, though, so probably they're older ones.

As for where to buy gunpowder, most any gun store would have it, here in MA (where there's only a handful of stores in the general Boston area) or up in NH (where there are many more and you can buy ammo, at least, in Wal-Mart - not sure about reloading supplies).

As for medical bills, I'm hoping that because it was in MA, more of the folks might've had health insurance than in other places in the US.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:21 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


> is there somewhere specific folks can make a donation to help them meet the medical, sick leave and rehab costs?

This is what I want to know. I'm thinking of giving blood next week, but I also want to give money to people who will need it much more than I will, considering that story in Time.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:22 PM on April 16, 2013


localroger: I'm not sure if FBI/ATF should be hiring you ASAP or stopping by for a house call.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Check with the donation centers - they might do better if you wait a couple of weeks to give blood so as to even out the supply levels.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


rmd1023, what would the logistics be of acquiring 5-10 pounds of powder? Would this be a suspicious amount for a single transaction?

It could of course be that the explosive was homemade from chemicals from a place like thechemistrystore.com. But I am thinking that if I were the police I would start with that intersection between tumbling and the propellant. Not many people know tumbling shot even exists. The pressure cookers probably came from Goodwill or equivalent.
posted by localroger at 3:25 PM on April 16, 2013


"United We Stand" banner on Yankee Stadium

I am wary of our collective reversion to post 9/11 expressions of grief through nationalism.

I do not intend to criticize what is no doubt a heartelt statement of solidarity. But it seems that our primary language for responding to acts of terror is one that is fraught with difficulty.

It's only human to identify with the victims of a tragedy like this --especially when it's close to home. I've walked that strip of Boylston a thousand times myself. It could have been me. Or any of us, in any city, taking part in a treasured public event. These type of acts are frequently interpreted as an affront on all of us--and in many ways, they are. The effects are felt acutely at the epicenter - but the reverberations extend far beyond. These events shake our sense of security. And for some, they remind us of dark days that are never far from our thoughts.

But I wish that we could resist the powerful urge to align ourselves so completely with the victims. To make our entire community, or country, the victim. That we could limit ourselves to sending love, prayers, and aid without resorting to the rhetoric of "us against them" which brought us the Patriot Act and more than a decade of war.

Please know that this is not intended as a criticism of anyone here. As many have said before, there's no right way to react to something like this. And I know I'm struggling to find the words.
posted by murfed13 at 3:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [20 favorites]


And I just had a chilling thought, which is that I really *really* hope the bomber didn't have anything to do with my local hackerspace over in Somerville.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:25 PM on April 16, 2013


New Yorkers always forget that DC got hit on 9/11, too.

I didn't forget, I'm speaking of my own lived experience. Which was New York.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


TheGuardian liveblog , at the bottom of the latest update, says the city of Boston has established a fund called One Boston to provide for victims. Tried googling with not much luck.
Also, I will look, but the Boston Globe had a page of how you can help listings.
posted by annsunny at 3:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


my local hackerspace

If the "circuit board" turns out to be any of the usual popular hobby microcontrollers that's another intersection point -- and will be the source of a great freakout in hobby circles when it's made public.
posted by localroger at 3:28 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


localroger: I don't do reloading, so I don't know. The containers I've seen are about the size of a rectangular metal pint bottle like you'd buy linseed oil or something in. I'm not sure how big a purchase would be enough to raise eyebrows, though.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:28 PM on April 16, 2013


Oh god, I hadn't even thought about healthcare bills. Ugh.
posted by knapah at 3:28 PM on April 16, 2013


I agree with this. This stinks heavily of a learned amateur.

All this chatter about all the ways the attacker could have optimized the attack if they really knew their stuff or that they were somehow not very good at blowing people up. Where is this coming from? Is this some attempt to mock the bomber for being a n00b? Are you trying to demonstrate your knowledge of bomb / gun porn to the larger group. I just don't get it.
posted by humanfont at 3:28 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


humanfont - at least for me, it's a counter-reaction to all the babbling in the press about how "technically sophisticated" the attack was. There is at least some reason to believe that it was not sophisticated, is how I read some of these comments (and my own).
posted by Mid at 3:30 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Is this some attempt to mock the bomber for being a n00b?

It's about the countering bullshit like I quoted here where the authorities are trying to set this up as some kind of major international terroristic 9/11 level threat, when the fact is if I had been motivated I could have built one of these bombs when I was 14. And with 1970's technology to boot. (14-YO me wouldn't have thought of the one-two punch though, as that didn't get well publicized until after Iraq II.)
posted by localroger at 3:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


showbiz_liz: "The New York Post is not a reliable source, stop giving them page views PLEASE"

Col Allan, 'New York Post’ Editor: This Is A Tragedy—Does It Really Matter Exactly How Many People Died Or What Any Of The Details Are?

(I'd trust the Onion before I'd trust anything ever written in the Murdoch Post)
posted by tonycpsu at 3:33 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


I mean we're seriously supposed to believe someone came here from Afghanistan and didn't even arrange to get hold of any real explosives?
posted by localroger at 3:34 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, I agree a typical reloader wouldn't necessarily have tumbling shot or black powder lying around. But he would (1) know tumbling shot exists and (2) have sources for both. The places that sell walnut shells sell tumbling shot, and the places that sell smokeless powder also sell black for the muzzle loaders.

Somewhere else this morning, I saw a schematic for bombs like this. Different computer, so I can't link.

that they were somehow not very good at blowing people up

They kinda sucked at it. You should be glad about that. I am.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


humanfront: some of my speculations (like the timing) is more talking out loud to try to make sense of a senseless situation.
posted by rmd1023 at 3:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


At the moment, evaluating the bomber's technical skills is the least speculative way of inquiring about the bomber's identity.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


(14-YO me wouldn't have thought of the one-two punch though, as that didn't get well publicized until after Iraq II.)

Given that it was Boston, and that some people would presumably have some familiarity with the Northern Irish conflict, the Narrow Water Massacre is a fairly horrendous example of a "one-two punch" and it happened in 1979.

I'm not saying this was even remotely an inspiration by the way. Just noting that familiarity with the tactic could go back well before Iraq II.
posted by knapah at 3:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I agree with localroger. And the "near simultaneous detonation" that is held up by the media as proof of a bombing mastermind can be accomplished by the technology known as "synchronized wind-up clocks."
posted by Mid at 3:36 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The runners of the 2013 Boston Marathon hailed from 71 different countries, making Monday's attack very much an international incident, regardless who may have been responsible.

6 False Things You Heard About the Boston Bombing
posted by nickyskye at 3:39 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


When I think about the targeting, I keep thinking the plan was to have set them off much earlier, when the blast would've gone out over live television, but that for some reason that didn't happen.

But mostly I'm just sad. That area is my favorite part of Boston
posted by hoople at 3:40 PM on April 16, 2013


Also, hello, we are nerds and there is a news story that relates in large measure to an amateur technical device.
posted by Mid at 3:40 PM on April 16, 2013 [22 favorites]


Poking about online I see black powder is sold in 8 pound lots, so not really an obstacle if you can afford a couple of hundred bucks worth of mayhem.
posted by localroger at 3:41 PM on April 16, 2013


Here is the link I saw earlier, on how to help. Boston.com, not the Globe. It's expanded since I saw it this earlier, so you might keep checking back.
posted by annsunny at 3:41 PM on April 16, 2013


The Boston Marathon is plenty big enough. (It's also technically more elite than the New York Marathon.) Whatever the intellectual shortcomings of this crook, he was smart enough to know that bombing it would result in international attention.

My bet is that this person lives locally. This person chose Boston because it was easier to do so than to go elsewhere. This person probably learned how to make bombs from the internet, and probably didn't go through many tests. This person is probably meticulous in some ways, but very far from a criminal mastermind. I would be surprised to learn that this person had any more than one confederate.

My apologies for being glib, but I also wonder if I'm the first person to be reminded of Four Lions, in which inept terrorists attempt to bomb the London Marathon.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:42 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"near simultaneous detonation"

I suspect the real tactic was supposed to be true simultaneity, so neither target group would have the warning of the other's explosion to cause them to start scattering. Just a way of getting more victims because the builder couldn't make a single bigger or more effective bomb.
posted by localroger at 3:43 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Given that it was Boston, and that some people would presumably have some familiarity with the Northern Irish conflict, the Narrow Water Massacre is a fairly horrendous example of a "one-two punch" and it happened in 1979.

I'm not saying this was even remotely an inspiration by the way. Just noting that familiarity with the tactic could go back well before Iraq II.

I think the IRA idea is a major stretch and I'm someone who has a very low opinion of anyone who put money anywhere near the IRA.

Probably anyone inclined to bomb something can think of leaving a second, delayed bomb. I'm sure someone can come up with an example from television from before 2003, even.
posted by hoyland at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2013


When I think about the targeting, I keep thinking the plan was to have set them off much earlier, when the blast would've gone out over live television,

I'm not saying this bombing went off as planned, but my thinking is that a bomb targeted between hours 4 and 5 would probably give you the maximum density of people crossing the line. We have a lot of time-trial marathoners here, though, so any of them could be more accurate about that.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:44 PM on April 16, 2013


So who knows where to buy gunpowder?

??? It's not some mystery — you can get it at the local hardware store. At mine they keep it in a cabinet so you have to ask, but they don't keep a log of sales.
posted by stopgap at 3:46 PM on April 16, 2013


In fact seeing that 8 pound bottle of powder I'm wondering if this didn't all start out as one of those, a pressure cooker, and the realization that all the powder didn't leave enough room in a single cooker for a satisfying load of shrapnel.
posted by localroger at 3:46 PM on April 16, 2013


We unfortunately have enough prior examples to determine some patterns in the effects these events have on cities. Any MeFites know what sort of effect this is likely to have on the local tourism industry? I suspect terrorism does end up depressing the number of visitors to a city, but how much, and how long does it take for the effect to fade?
posted by brainwane at 3:46 PM on April 16, 2013


No one is sure if this is related, of course, and take it with the grain of salt always recommended for such, but CNN is reporting that an envelope at the US Capitol's mail facility has tested positive for ricin, in three tests.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:47 PM on April 16, 2013


I think the IRA idea is a major stretch and I'm someone who has a very low opinion of anyone who put money anywhere near the IRA.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have even posted that comment, but I just wanted to contest any suggestion that coming up with delayed bombs targeting responders or whatever was in any way novel.
posted by knapah at 3:47 PM on April 16, 2013


Pictures show bag or package outside security fences before and after blast.
posted by raztaj at 3:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


Also, on the ricin thing, NBC is immediately pointing out that investigators think it may well be a false positive caused by paper byproducts.
posted by koeselitz at 3:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Oklahoma City Memorial Marathon organizers invite runners who didn't finish Boston Marathon to run for free.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:49 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


koeselitz: "Also, on the ricin thing, NBC is immediately pointing out that investigators think it may well be a false positive caused by paper byproducts."

That story is from 2004. Although the same false positive might apply here.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:50 PM on April 16, 2013


No. 6 in the "6 False Things" article that nickyskye linked above may very well be the mysterious "darker-skinned or black male" with a backpack referenced earlier.
posted by Eyebeams at 3:51 PM on April 16, 2013


Ah, thanks JZ. Geez, the stuff I pick up on Twitter.
posted by koeselitz at 3:51 PM on April 16, 2013


. What he missed was the pressure containment; it was a deflagration, consistent with powder, which turned into a detonation because of the pressure containment.

(I'm being clinical here to stay sane, btw....)

Yeah. I *knew* that fireball and smoke was powder, not HE. I suspect it could be Pyrodex, which isn't as good in terms of burn rate, but is vastly easier to get, or one of the newer not actually black powder but can be used in black powder weapons. Black powder isn't that hard to make, though.

It wasn't that much of containment. Enough to make a sharp boom, but a pipe bomb holds vastly more pressure than a pressure cooker. I'd guess it would fail at 3-5 atmospheres -- there's already a safety to release in case it starts to build, but I'm sure the pressure rose far faster than the safety could clear.

Still, call it 18x12" cylinder, about 188 square inches. 3 atm is about 45psi, so over four *tons* of force. The big thing, I think, is that it let the pressure ramp up a little more before the shrapnel was flung, which meant it flew faster. There are conflicting reports on that, one hospital reported nothing like ball bearings or nails, just bits of metal.

Typically, solid metal like this won't shatter like safety glass, you'll get several large hunks. This is why the old "pineapple" grenades were replaced, you wanted lots of small bits, you got a few big ones. This might explain the injury patter we saw, where several people lost limbs, but lots of people very close to the explosion were basically unhurt -- some caught the big pieces, and others didn't.

Gunpowder is easy to get. Black powder is harder, because to legally sell it you need to have an explosives license, insurance, etc., but things like pyrodex are easy to find. Buying 5 pounds of BP would get you noticed, indeed, you'd have to buy it 1 pound at a time, unless you had an explosives license yourself. It's not the safest stuff to transport, so it's expensive.

Pyrodex and the like? Mail order. Not a problem to get 5-10 pounds locally either, though it would help if the guy you were buying it from knew you were a muzzleloader.

You could probably use smokeless powder, since you have containment. Also easy to get, and you can get it in big lots -- I think 8 pounds is the standard, but I never got into hand loading modern weapons, but my dad did a lot of muzzleloaders, so I saw lots of that.
posted by eriko at 3:53 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Pictures show bag or package outside security fences before and after blast.

Be warned. Even though there's nothing graphic in the "before" picture and WHDH has blurred out parts of the "after" picture, I'd still consider both to be equally NSFL or NSFE.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:53 PM on April 16, 2013


Pictures show bag or package outside security fences before and after blast.

Good lord. That's a really good link. It also shows photos of someone running from the scene.
posted by phaedon at 3:56 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, the pictures just posted by raztaj just above I think reinforce the idea that this was not some kind of bombing mastermind at work. It's hard to look at (be warned) because the bomb is placed directly at leg level for several people. But the mailbox standing only a foot or two away appears not to have been seriously damaged.
posted by Mid at 3:56 PM on April 16, 2013


I found another link from CNN on how to help. The first link is to onefundboston.org, the link I was looking for.
posted by annsunny at 3:57 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Photos of the remains of the bomb
posted by humanfont at 3:59 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The ricin thing sounds like a false alarm. The news is saying it was to Roger Wicker, a junior senator from Mississippi, which would be kind of an odd target.
posted by unreason at 3:59 PM on April 16, 2013


The last even quasi-IRA bombing was in 2001. Of all the places in the world any covert or splinter IRA group is likely to bomb, Boston would be the absolute last target, followed quickly by Chicago. Where do you think all the money that funded the IRA came from back in the Day?
posted by DarlingBri at 3:59 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


If that satchel was the explosive how would the metal railing get wrapped around the mailbox the way it did? It looks like it got bent from the other direction in the "after" photo.
posted by hoople at 4:00 PM on April 16, 2013


phaedon: “It also shows photos of someone running from the scene.”

Really? I'm not seeing that. Where?
posted by koeselitz at 4:00 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Pictures show bag or package outside security fences before and after blast.

With the blurring, it's hard to tell, but it looks plausibly like center of blast. I wish I could see the mailbox better -- if that was the bomb, it should be beat to hell.

The question --

Is there another bag in a pic up the street that looks like that?

The article says it might be "an hour" or more between shots. You think someone would notice that bag sitting there? That also might be marathon related, but lordly, it's the right size, shape and in the right place.

Good lord. That's a really good link. It also shows photos of someone running from the scene.

Okay, I admit it. I LOLd there.
posted by eriko at 4:01 PM on April 16, 2013


What koeselitz said. Unless it's a tacky joke about the marathon runners?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:02 PM on April 16, 2013


Ah. Joke. I see.
posted by koeselitz at 4:03 PM on April 16, 2013


Really? I'm not seeing that. Where?

Guys, watch the video through in raztaj's link. The "photos" are actually part of the video segment, sorry for not making that clear. It's a white guy in black shorts. I mean, it's a little much to suggest he is suspiciously running from a crime scene, but he is singled out in the segment.
posted by phaedon at 4:04 PM on April 16, 2013


Yeah, there are other people running from the scene as well.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 4:04 PM on April 16, 2013


There is a video at that same link. It's not a joke; there are highlighted images of a individual guy running from the scene, away from other victims who are crouching near the railings. Whether or not his running is significant is a different story, but that wasn't a damned joke.
posted by Coatlicue at 4:05 PM on April 16, 2013


But the mailbox standing only a foot or two away appears not to have been seriously damaged.

If it indeed the bomb, it seems to me, if we're playing Armchair Procedural, that this is another sign of an amateur bomber. That mailbox is going to absorb a lot of the blast and shrapnel that would otherwise tear into human beings. That whole in the picture to the up-and-right of the mailbox is almost totally debris, body, and blood free. The left windows of the Starbucks is intact and the right window is not.
posted by absalom at 4:05 PM on April 16, 2013


Ah, sorry, phaedon. I wanted to avoid video. The shot from the finish line has basically been gutpunching me since yesterday.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:05 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I mean we're seriously supposed to believe someone came here from Afghanistan and didn't even arrange to get hold of any real explosives?
It could be someone sympathetic to them, look at the time-square bomber, for example. He obviously didn't know what he was doing.
when the fact is if I had been motivated I could have built one of these bombs when I was 14.
I'm not sure what the point is though, bombs don't need to be sophisticated to be effective. For all we know this person didn't actually want to kill a large number people, as opposed to causing a lot of injuries and chaos.
posted by delmoi at 4:06 PM on April 16, 2013


I have no idea why they single him out. It looks like his trousers are all tore up. Lots of other people in those shots are moving away from the scene. He's just the fastest.
posted by IanMorr at 4:06 PM on April 16, 2013


The last even quasi-IRA bombing was in 2001. Of all the places in the world any covert or splinter IRA group is likely to bomb, Boston would be the absolute last target, followed quickly by Chicago. Where do you think all the money that funded the IRA came from back in the Day?

As far as I can tell, nobody, especially not me, is saying the IRA has anything to do with this.
posted by knapah at 4:07 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


If that satchel was the explosive how would the metal railing get wrapped around the mailbox the way it did?

The railing looks broken, and someone just pulled it up against the side -- but it's hard to tell, that's a low res and intentionally blurred photo.
posted by eriko at 4:09 PM on April 16, 2013


There is a video at that same link. It's not a joke; there are highlighted images of a individual guy running from the scene, away from other victims who are crouching near the railings. Whether or not his running is significant is a different story, but that wasn't a damned joke.

FYI the guy running, is from the scene of the first blast. The pictures of the bag before/after are from the second blast.
posted by raztaj at 4:09 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The thing that doesn't add up is that they recovered what they think is part of the bag, and it was black, and they're smart enough to make sure it was black, not just burned black.

That bag is white -- though it's possible that the two bombs were in different colored bags.
posted by eriko at 4:11 PM on April 16, 2013


Rustic Etruscan: “Ah, sorry, phaedon. I wanted to avoid video.”

Heh – me too. After I clicked "play" and got an awful pixellated Outback Steakhouse commercial, I just closed it thinking "pictures" must mean "pictures in page."
posted by koeselitz at 4:11 PM on April 16, 2013


The black and white fabric on the ground next to the bald man in grey trousers in the pictures from 7 News of the possible bag looks like the remains of the bag in the 5th picture from Fox Atlanta to me. They're both right next to a crossing line (of course, all the debris is in the street, so...)
posted by headspace at 4:12 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Guys, watch the video through in raztaj's link.
"THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO VIEW IS UNAVAILABLE"
It's a white guy in black shorts. I mean, it's a little much to suggest he is suspiciously running from a crime scene, but he is singled out in the segment.
Uh, isn't that one of the marathon runners? The two photos were taken "maybe an hour or more" apart.
posted by delmoi at 4:12 PM on April 16, 2013


Apparently, the envelope tested positive for ricin three times.

Given that I work in one of those buildings, I'm absolutely thrilled to be hearing about this from CNN, and not one of the 50,000 "emergency" messages that the Capitol Police feel compelled to send us every day.
posted by schmod at 4:14 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


As far as I can tell, nobody, especially not me, is saying the IRA has anything to do with this.

You had sort of weirdly implied (intentionally or not) that IRA sympathisers were the sort of people who would think of a delayed second bomb. That's where DarlingBri is coming from, I think.
posted by hoyland at 4:14 PM on April 16, 2013


It's a whole other set of pictures, delmoi. The pictures of the potential bomb show the second explosion; the pictures of the man in black show the first.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:14 PM on April 16, 2013


Uh, isn't that one of the marathon runners? The two photos were taken "maybe an hour or more" apart.

Completely different photos. The video has a set of 10+ photos taken in quick succession.
posted by acidic at 4:14 PM on April 16, 2013


delmoi: “Uh, isn't that one of the marathon runners? The two photos were taken "maybe an hour or more" apart.”

No, delmoi, the pictures of someone running away that they're talking about are completely different pictures. They're only in the video, conveniently.
posted by koeselitz at 4:14 PM on April 16, 2013


You had sort of weirdly implied (intentionally or not) that IRA sympathisers were the sort of people who would think of a delayed second bomb. That's where DarlingBri is coming from, I think.

Or, scrolling back, it was me responding to you and everything just sounded really muddled.
posted by hoyland at 4:16 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"THE VIDEO YOU ARE TRYING TO VIEW IS UNAVAILABLE"

You're not the first person to say that to me, not sure why that's happening.

Completely different photos. The video has a set of 10+ photos taken in quick succession.

Yes, that and just to be clear, if you can't access the video, the segment greys out the screen and circles one guy in multiple photos who appears to be dressed as a marathon runner who is running on the sidewalk away from the scene, while everyone else is still cowering in pain. I am not suggesting this is a strong lead, just describing the video.
posted by phaedon at 4:16 PM on April 16, 2013


They're only in the video, conveniently.
Which won't play. I thought it might be adblock, so I tried it chrome. Same thing, except I had to sit through a 15 second ad before informing me I couldn't see it.


I think the point about the IRA is that they were the first to do "double taps", so people knew about it before the Iraq War.
posted by delmoi at 4:19 PM on April 16, 2013


You had sort of weirdly implied (intentionally or not) that IRA sympathisers were the sort of people who would think of a delayed second bomb. That's where DarlingBri is coming from, I think.

Yeah, looking back I can see how it happened. I needlessly derailed from localroger's comment about first responder-targeting secondary devices being publicised after "Iraq II" to make a fairly pointless comment about it being an old and potentially commonly known tactic well before that. Sorry!
posted by knapah at 4:19 PM on April 16, 2013


I wish I could see the mailbox better -- if that was the bomb, it should be beat to hell.

That's a holding box for carriers to pick up from. Bolts in the ground. Built like a tank. It deflected the blast to the left.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:21 PM on April 16, 2013


Which won't play.

I did my best to create an animated gif of what is being described in the video as a person running away from the scene while everyone else is still cowering.
posted by phaedon at 4:22 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


For all we know this person didn't actually want to kill a large number people, as opposed to causing a lot of injuries and chaos.

They left two bombs in a densely packed highly publicized area loaded with shrapnel intended to turn into bullets at boom time. If they had the means or knowledge to make the bombs more lethal they would have done so.

This is the work of a person who doesn't have a lot of resources and probably didn't go far off his usual courses to get what he used. Someone with the means to buy an airline ticket, expecially an overseas ticket, would probably have the means to get a couple of pounds of HE. This whole project cost less than $500, and that's assuming Dad didn't leave that nearly full bottle of powder lying around after losing interest in the hobby. You can also look at this thing as a model rocket without a nozzle which brings up some other propellant possibilities, all accessible to teenagers but only attractive to somone without better means. Someone into model rocketry* would also have easy access to timer options and suitable electrically fired primers.

* or into a closely related hobby which would put him in touch with model rocketry vendors, ads, and project articles.
posted by localroger at 4:22 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


The dude in the "running away" video looks to be wearing pants that are all torn up or melted from the knee down, like he was pretty close to the blast. My guess is that he was just a bit quicker to react or lucky enough to be less hurt than those around him.
posted by rollbiz at 4:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thousands of comments in and nothing but speculation. Please can we all just stop and wait until verified FACTS emerge.
posted by RedShrek at 4:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Please can we all just stop and wait until verified FACTS emerge.

Verified by who? Millions of people in this country don't trust the usual sources. They will gripe for years. Let's muddle on.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I mention this book a lot, but Mr Yuck wrote "It just takes one person doing the thing that makes sense to get most of the crowd out of shock. People will listen if you start telling them what to do." in response to Eyebrows McGee mentioning being motivated to take a Red Cross first aid course.

My Red Cross chapter encourages all its employees and volunteers to read Unthinkable: Who survives When Disasters Strike and Why. Author Amanda Ripley talks specifically about how panic often looks less like what we expect (people screaming and running and behaving without purpose) and more like people becoming slack, immobile and in need of someone to tell them what to do. She talks about how to move swiftly through stunned disbelief into action which can help you and those around you.

What else is very striking about her research is the need that survivors have to teach people how to do what they have done. She talks about socialization and how practicing reactions may be more useful in crisis than people tend to think.

Anyway. It's good advice, I think, taking these tragedies to empower yourself to help others in crisis, to be useful in times of distress, to be the one to link arms with a stranger and help her through the emergency exit.
posted by crush-onastick at 4:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [43 favorites]


They left two bombs in a densely packed highly publicized area loaded with shrapnel intended to turn into bullets at boom time. If they had the means or knowledge to make the bombs more lethal they would have done so.
Airline tickets aren't that expensive. Maybe this bomb cost $500. But there are a lot of things to consider.

1) You can't get caught while collecting supplies. Remember Najibullah Zazi? He got caught trying to buy large amounts of hydrogen perxodie and acetone.

2) You need to be able to place the bombs. If you built a larger, more expensive bomb, you might get caught.

3) The more people you involve in your plot, the more likely it is one of them will screw up or be a snitch.

4) Where exactly would they get the HE in the first place? They certainly couldn't bring it with them on the plane.
posted by delmoi at 4:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


In other news: Ricin Letter: Senate Office Correspondence To Roger Wicker Intercepted At U.S. Capitol.
posted by ericb at 4:35 PM on April 16, 2013


Mr. Yuck: "They will gripe for years. Let's muddle on."

I don't get it: they won't believe verified facts, so we shouldn't even wait for facts to emerge?
posted by Bugbread at 4:36 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


4) Where exactly would they get the HE in the first place? They certainly couldn't bring it with them on the plane.

The fact that you or I don't know where to buy it doesn't mean someone interested in bombing things couldn't. It's not like the stuff doesn't exist in the US. You don't have to bring it on a plane from elsewhere.
posted by hoyland at 4:40 PM on April 16, 2013


so we shouldn't even wait for facts to emerge?

Intelligent public speculation will help insure that the real facts do emerge. We are dealing with the FBI here.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 4:41 PM on April 16, 2013


To Boston from Kabul with love
posted by Jacqueline at 4:42 PM on April 16, 2013 [12 favorites]


You don't have to bring it on a plane from elsewhere.

Or you mail it in to mail drops. Of a half dozen sub-pound packages carefully wrapped, washed, and re-wrapped, it's likely most would get through as the resources don't exist to thoroughly screen all the packages of that size.
posted by localroger at 4:44 PM on April 16, 2013


Candlelight vigil for Martin Richard in Dorchester park. His sister who was a dancer lost one leg. It is possible that she will have to have the other one amputated. Mother still in critical condition with brain injury.

Fuck.
posted by ericb at 4:44 PM on April 16, 2013


Apropos of not much, but I noticed on the photos of the bomb remains that it looks like the pressure cookers were electric models and not stovetop models.
posted by vibrotronica at 4:44 PM on April 16, 2013


vibrotronica, they showed a label that said "electric or gas." That suggests stovetop.
posted by localroger at 4:46 PM on April 16, 2013


Intelligent public speculation will help insure that the real facts do emerge. We are dealing with the FBI here.

I would LOL but my screen would turn black.
posted by localroger at 4:47 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Gay Officer is Among Three Boston Marathon Police Responders Shown on Powerful 'Sports Illustrated' Cover.

It is a dramatic, perhaps iconic shot, and while I agree with zarq that anyone's orientation is irrelevant, perhaps we are not the target demographic here: Sports Illustrated's readership may view the matter differently than you and I.

That said, the link has a surely unintentional but of grim humour: it shows three Boston police officers rushing to respond while in the foreground, Bill Iffrig (known to many as "the older guy in the orange shirt who fell to the ground") is beginning to rise from where he fell. Seven paragraphs in, the page reads, "Incidentally, Iffrig was okay." The combination of image, lede, the focus of the piece and this offhand observation kind of adds up to DRAMA FIRST RESPONDERS HEROES GAY COP HERO oh, yeah, old guy was okay too btw.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:50 PM on April 16, 2013


To Boston from Kabul with love

Given the literacy rate in Afghanistan, are we certain that the people posed with the sign (the exact same sign over and over again) know what they're holding? These seem a kind of staged. If I'm wrong, it's a very wonderful sentiment. But the pictures leave me feeling like this was more about a weirdly planned photographic series, than capturing sincere sentiment. I'm not saying it's insincere, but not everyone in the world pays attention to everything going on in the US (and I say that as a Bostonian).
posted by raztaj at 4:50 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Check with the donation centers - they might do better if you wait a couple of weeks to give blood so as to even out the supply levels.

On local Boston news Mass General, Brigham & Women's, Children's Hospital and the Red Cross center that has popped-up in Harvard Square say they have enough blood ... But, want folks to sign up on the waiting lists for donations for the next few days and weeks.
posted by ericb at 4:51 PM on April 16, 2013


To Boston from Kabul with love

I followed the information on the page to the documentary Beyond Belief [Netflix]:
After forming a common bond in their grief when both lost their husbands on Sept. 11, 2001, strangers Patti Quigley and Susan Retik cope with their unimaginable loss by traveling to Afghanistan to meet women there who were also widowed by violence.

It is a dramatic, perhaps iconic shot, and while I agree with zarq that anyone's orientation is irrelevant, perhaps we are not the target demographic here: Sports Illustrated's readership may view the matter differently than you and I.

Note that the link is not to SI. It is the prominent gay blog Towleroad highlighting something in the cover photo, not what SI chose to headline.
posted by dhartung at 4:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The article says it might be "an hour" or more between shots.

Guessing at the timespan is the laziest of as lot of lazy journalism I have seen in the last 24 hours. I don't think it would be that hard for investigators (and by this, I mean not people looking at gifs at home) to establish how far apart these pictures were taken. In fact, near the finish line of a marathon would surely be the easiest place imaginable to establish a timeline. There are nine or ten marathon runners visible, and there are surely records of when (to the second) each one crossed the finish line.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:00 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Third marathon bombing victim identified as Boston University grad student, Chinese national.
posted by ericb at 5:01 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Family Guy Episode at Center of Boston Marathon Conspiracy Theory Pulled from Web by Fox

The bullshit is flying thick and fast.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


The images in the bomb remains match the lid and bottom of my Fagor stovetop pressure cooker.
posted by SillyShepherd at 5:09 PM on April 16, 2013


So who knows where to buy gunpowder? I don't have it bookmarked, but I don't need to accelerate my gemstones to the speed of sound.

It's not hard to buy, and people tend to stock supplies in large quantities for perfectly innocent reasons - it's cheaper to buy in bulk.
posted by corb at 5:16 PM on April 16, 2013


morganw: Star Simpson was arrested at Logan where 1/2 the 9/11 planes originated, wearing a mess of wires on her hoodie.

Underneath, actually. The photos of the jacket shown by BPD had the hoodie inverted.

I've had the pleasure of meeting Ms Simpson a few times, most recently last August at ToorCamp; she's a truly awesome person.
posted by LanTao at 5:20 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Envelope with white powder being investigated at Dallas Federal Building. Can't find a news link yet, just my local scanner feed on Facebook.Vwe got one of these last Oct. that was a false alarm, though, so....
posted by emjaybee at 5:22 PM on April 16, 2013


Hard to believe that metal object linked in humanfront's comment is the bomb. You would think from the amount of carnage it would be in much smaller pieces.
posted by rosswald at 5:25 PM on April 16, 2013


Boston Marathon Memorabilia Sold On eBay Hours After Bombing (PHOTOS)
While some items, like bumper stickers, are being sold for less than $5, others, like medals, are receiving bids for as much as $132.
I'm torn on this. I can see why someone might not want to keep a reminder of the day, yet I don't like the idea of trading in on a national tragedy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:27 PM on April 16, 2013


Hard to believe that metal object in humanfront's link is the bomb. You would think from the amount of carnage it would be in much smaller pieces.

Think of it as being like hanging too much weight from a string - the string only breaks in one place to relieve the tension. In this case, the explosive is going to rip the container apart along a few weak areas but it's unlikely to shred the housing. That's why they put the metal bits in there.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:32 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


The ricin in the letter to Senator Ricin may have been a false positive.
posted by humanfont at 5:34 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jeff Bauman has been named as the man in the wheelchair in the simultaneously most horrific and heroic picture from yesterday.

[edited to change link from blaze with annoying signup bullshit]
posted by Cold Lurkey at 5:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Star Simpson was arrested at Logan where 1/2 the 9/11 planes originated, wearing a mess of wires on her hoodie.

Underneath, actually. The photos of the jacket shown by BPD had the hoodie inverted.

Yeah, this is verging on derail territory, but many news articles about her arrest included the phrase "fake bomb." If a sweatshirt is a fake bomb, is there anything that is not a fake bomb? When the screeners swab my laptop to see if it is a concealed explosive and find nothing amiss, surely they agree that what I am boarding the plane with is a fake bomb.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:35 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


There has always been a disaster market, or if now "always" than at least for a long time, Hindenburg, Titanic, 9/11 etc. Things are more "valuable" the more dramatic history is associated with it, or at least dramatic Euro/American history. It is kind of perverse, especially when it happens so soon after the event. Viva Capitalism
posted by edgeways at 5:36 PM on April 16, 2013



Envelope with white powder being investigated at Dallas Federal Building. Can't find a news link yet, just my local scanner feed on Facebook.Vwe got one of these last Oct. that was a false alarm, though, so....

There are two local news stations carrying the story news but they don't have much to report


Dallas Morning News

WFAA
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:36 PM on April 16, 2013


>While some items, like bumper stickers, are being sold for less than $5, others, like medals, are receiving bids for as much as $132.

I'm torn on this. I can see why someone might not want to keep a reminder of the day, yet I don't like the idea of trading in on a national tragedy.

Like this?

Why do you care? Do you need an excuse for righteous indignation?
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:43 PM on April 16, 2013


The longer the silence goes on the weirder the story becomes to me. Has there ever been a large bombing in America where somebody or some group didn't claim the credit? Why would you bomb the public unless it was to make some political (or religious) point? If you don't tell us why you did it than what was the goal?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


This isn't a large bombing. It's a small bombing that got very lucky in terms of placement and exposure.
posted by localroger at 5:45 PM on April 16, 2013


I did my best to create an animated gif of what is being described in the video as a person running away from the scene while everyone else is still cowering.
Ah, it does look a little different then someone who's simply running from the bomb. For one thing, he's running towards the explosion, then runs past it and away, and it looks like he knows exactly where he's headed, rather then just running randomly. But if he was the bomber, why would he stand so close to the bomb that his pants got blown off?
I don't think it would be that hard for investigators (and by this, I mean not people looking at gifs at home) to establish how far apart these pictures were taken. In fact, near the finish line of a marathon would surely be the easiest place imaginable to establish a timeline.
Or you could just look at the timestamp, since they were probably taken with the same camera.
The fact that you or I don't know where to buy it doesn't mean someone interested in bombing things couldn't. It's not like the stuff doesn't exist in the US. You don't have to bring it on a plane from elsewhere.
Yeah, of course it exists in the US - but the question is how would someone fresh off a plane from Afghanistan or Pakistan buy it without raising a billion red flags and thus making themselves much more likely to get caught, like Zazi?
Or you mail it in to mail drops. Of a half dozen sub-pound packages carefully wrapped, washed, and re-wrapped, it's likely most would get through as the resources don't exist to thoroughly screen all the packages of that size.
Then why didn't Zazi or the Time Square bomber do that? How do you coordinate these mail drops with other members of AQ without using the phone or email? Even with good encryption, you still have to send the messages.

Sure, maybe it's theoretically possible for them to get high explosives. But it would drastically increase the amount of effort and drastically increase the risky things they would need to do to pull it off.


I'm not saying I think AQ did it. In fact, I highly doubt it. I just don't think you can rule it out based on the type of bomb.
posted by delmoi at 5:47 PM on April 16, 2013


If you don't tell us why you did it than what was the goal?

The man who carried out the London nail bombings in the 90s released no statements nor made any attempt to claim credit until after he was caught.
posted by dng at 5:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Why do you care? Do you need an excuse for righteous indignation?

First of all, it is hard to tell over the internet but I am hardly full of "righteous indignation." I just find it a bit distasteful.

Second, comparing it to the Titanic? Come on. That's a stretch. The Titanic was a hundred years ago. This tragedy happened yesterday. Do you not see a difference? To me this smacks of people trying to profit of of the event. The sellers are out to make a quick buck, the buyers (I assume) are investing for the future.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


This isn't a large bombing

It is certainly large in terms of victims and media exposure.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:50 PM on April 16, 2013


Thanks for the pointers to The Unthinkable- I just bought the kindle edition, so that's now in my to-read list.

Sandy was (in NJ at least) much more of a slow motion event than Boston, obviously, but I do remember a big difference between how some of my uber type A friends dealt with it (badly/a lot of wasted effort, as I recall) & thinking "wow, calm down and be effective already." As the spouse of a first responder type I don't think I'd realized until then how much I've absorbed from him about how to deal with chaos. Whenever something truly bad happens- a car accident I was in, for instance, he goes into a very focused mode that's fascinating to watch. I know that they drill for this kind of thing, but it's kind of fascinating to see as a civilian.

Has this Atlantic article been linked in yet? My facebook feed has been full of college friends, now scattered all over the world, commenting on how dear Boston still is to us.
posted by lyra4 at 5:50 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Why would you bomb the public unless it was to make some political (or religious) point?

There are a bunch of reasons why some asshole might do something like this that have nothing to do with politics or religion and have everything to do with being a sociopath or an idiot. We won't, of course, know until a suspect is in custody (and even then we might not really ever know).
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:53 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Idiots with bombs have been around for many years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
posted by Mr. Yuck at 5:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Robert Kraft is donating money to the victims:
New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, a lifelong Massachusetts resident, has announced that his family will be donating up to $100,000 to help the victims of Monday's Boston Marathon bombing.

The Patriots have set up a website where people can go to donate money. The Kraft family will match all donations up to $100,000.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Washington Post article about the injuries being treated.
The disproportionate number of leg injuries has convinced some medical experts that the bombs were on the ground or not high above it. The carnage from two- to three-millimeter diameter pellets and half-inch nails has convinced some that the main goal of the bombs was to injure as many people as possible.

“You can’t put into words how disturbing this is,” said trauma surgeon Tracey Dechert, who had finished a 28-hour shift at Boston Medical before the twin bombs went off, then raced back to the hospital, arriving in time to perform a double amputation on one woman. The hospital had five patients who required amputation of part of at least one leg, and “more than one” patient lost both legs, Dechert said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on April 16, 2013


FWIW, I think Titanic memorabilia is tasteless, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:02 PM on April 16, 2013


rosswald: You would think from the amount of carnage it would be in much smaller pieces.

The pictures show a modern stainless steel pressure cooker. Had it been an older cast model things might have been a bit different.

When you rupture a vessel made of a ductile material like stainless steel, it's very similar to popping a balloon except with much higher pressures. The metal will rupture at some single weakest point. Because PC manufacturers have gotten very paranoid about failures, that won't be the oh so vulnearable lid to vessel interface (a common early failure mode put a big hole in the ceiling above the cooker). The lid and seal will be tough. The bottom will be tough because it's flat and it's very noticeable when something flat like that stops being flat and starts rocking.

That leaves the sides, which are convex and can therefore be treated entirely as tension elements by the designer. Once a rupture forms, it will unzip in milliseconds allowing the pressurized contents to spew forth. And this is actually what we saw; the explosion was almost a jet aimed below the knees of the victims.

But while this can bend and mangle things it doesn't really do much more damage to the parts of the cooker that don't unzip. I won't be surprised if they find the thing covered with fingerprints and DNA. Once the pressure is relieved by venting through the unzipping rupture, there just isn't a lot of force left to pulverize the rest of the container. Yeah it will go flying and get knocked about and bent up but it's not going to end up molten droplets or little fragments. There just isn't enough energy delivered to the system or contained properly to do that.

Now, had the cooker been cast and the metal more brittle, as was the case for many early 20th century specimens ... first, you would have had much higher pressures before the rupture. Then instead of bending you'd have gotten breakage, and more breakage as flying pieces impacted the surroundings. Still not necessarily dust, but probably more like what you expected. And probably more like what the bomber was hoping for too.
posted by localroger at 6:05 PM on April 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


my thinking is that a bomb targeted between hours 4 and 5 would probably give you the maximum density of people crossing the line

FWIW, I'm not sure that's true of Boston because the qualification times are so stringent -- most who entered by qualifying are running faster than 4 hours, many significantly faster. The partner entries, about 20% of the field for sponsors, charities etc, are likely slower.

The place where marathons are most crowded with people: the start.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:08 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


It is certainly large in terms of victims and media exposure.

Again, only because the bomber got really lucky in having access to a perfect place to put his wares for both purposes. This did not involve a lot of planning; the bomber missed an opportunity to maybe take out some bigshots and international celebrities if he had just timed the explosion closer to the winners' finish.
posted by localroger at 6:08 PM on April 16, 2013


I am still in shock at seeing the picture of the guy in the wheelchair. Both of his legs flayed, shattered and torn below the knees. He was awake. Very pale. No doubt in shock. And All I could think was, "You poor guy. You probably don't even know what's happened to you. But you will. If you live you will know. You poor man."
posted by Splunge at 6:12 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Secret Life of Gravy: "The longer the silence goes on the weirder the story becomes to me. Has there ever been a large bombing in America where somebody or some group didn't claim the credit?"

That's what happened at the Atlanta Olympics bombing, right?
posted by Bugbread at 6:14 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


The place where marathons are most crowded with people: the start.

Putting a bomb in downtown Boston will get more media attention than putting one in Hopkinton, maybe?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:16 PM on April 16, 2013


The New York Times wrote a nice piece about the man in the wheelchair, his father, and the man in the cowboy hat.
posted by raztaj at 6:18 PM on April 16, 2013


Boston Marathon Will Go on Next Year


Tomorrow's edition of Sports Illustrated will have a cover photo of 78-year-old Bill Iffrig of Washington State, who went down from the concussion of the first bomb.


Charity Scams Crop Up for the Boston Marathon (duh)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on April 16, 2013


I hope Jeff Bauman and Carlos Arredondo end up being friends for life.
posted by argonauta at 6:22 PM on April 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


The place where marathons are most crowded with people: the start.

The start of the Boston Marathon is packed with security. Not for counter-terrorism, but to keep people from jumping into the race.

A person hauling large bags around is going to stand out, and those bags will stand off before they open the starting ground.

At the end of the race, security is relaxed. They're almost done, after all...
posted by eriko at 6:23 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's what happened at the Atlanta Olympics bombing, right?

Yeah, you're right. It took the FBI over 6 months and more bombings to get a lead after they figured out Richard Jewell was not their man. Ugh. I hate to think about it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Greenwald has a new piece up, much of which will be familiar to folks following this thread (empathy should be global for victims of bombings, eager anti-Muslim bias is despicable, officials will almost certainly use this episode to restrict more civil liberties). I was struck, however, by this bit I don't recall anyone mentioning above: Tom Brokaw's appearance on NBC last night offering a mini-lecture on how we should react to what he said will be newly tightened security measures across the country:

"Everyone has to understand tonight that, beginning tomorrow morning early, there are going to be much tougher security considerations all across the country, and however exhausted we may be by that, we're going to have to learn to live with them, and get along and go forward, and not let them bring us to our knees. You'll remember last summer, how unhappy we were with the security at the Democratic and Republic conventions. Now I don't think we can raise those complaints after what happened in Boston."

I'll call bullshit on that last bit. I'm sure the false flag folks are loving that statement, but you don't need to sink to that level of conspiracy in order to have serious concerns about what new civil liberties we might lose in this country after Boston. Brokaw's patronizing aside, we can indeed continue to "raise those complaints." To me, *that's* what not letting yourself be terrorized is all about.
posted by mediareport at 6:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [47 favorites]


From what I understand, some of the runners, once they've qualified for Boston, take their time from Hopkinton to Boston and just enjoy it.
posted by SillyShepherd at 6:27 PM on April 16, 2013


From what I understand, some of the runners, once they've qualified for Boston, take their time from Hopkinton to Boston and just enjoy it.

Sure. For a lot of runners, qualifying for Boston is the end goal. Especially their first time there, they'll just pace themselves to ensure they finish.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:33 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I hate to think about it.

I know. What I've been thinking since yesterday is if only there had been a Richard Jewell in Boston who saw that satchel and began moving people away.
posted by dhartung at 6:47 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


FFS, the bomb was large enough as far as Boston is concerned. This is not going to remembered in Boston as a "small bombing." We know it could have been worse, but minimizing it as "not that bad" is a bit insensitive at this point.
posted by sonika at 6:48 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Oh come on, take it easy on Tommy Boy. He didn't have a script. Think Anchorman. Or Dana Carvey.
posted by phaedon at 7:04 PM on April 16, 2013


Just popped up on twitter, Children's Hospital Boston Amazon Wishlist.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Wow, I discovered 2 sets of high rez pics at Cryptome.org. Stunning and absolutely gory, I'm not going to link, you can find them yourself. The first pic is mere seconds after the bomb blast, just feet from ground zero. You can see Carlos Arredondo still standing at the fence, with that little flag in his hand. He is looking at a scene of complete horror. The scene is so awful, it made me cry.

The second set is similarly horrible, but shot from a high vantage point. While the horror is relentless, you can see that in moments, the injured are surrounded by the medical team. The next to last photo is probably Pulitzer Prize material. The med team members are wearing yellow vests with large labels like Physician, Nurse, EMS, etc. Firemen are standing by with backboards and their big red medical supply cases. Everyone is wearing blue disposable gloves. And everyone seems to be absolutely engaged with caring for the wounded. And in the middle, a soldier in grey camo hands the limp body of a little boy into the arms of a doctor.
posted by charlie don't surf at 7:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Saying it's a small bombing isn't the same as saying it's not that bad. The killer constructed two cheap inferior devices, placed them poorly, and still managed to kill three people, disfigure a dozen, and render international chaos. The place and time were as well chosen as the devices themselves were crude and haphazard.

It furthers nothing except more chaos to claim that this amateur hour bombing was the work of international terrorists with the backing of huge organizations and possibly nations.

The biggest problem we have now with getting the truth is that I am very convinced the truth is going to be very banal, and after all the hysteria the authorities are going to be reluctant to admit that no matter what the evidence says. This isn't even a Tim McVeigh. McVeigh actually had money for drums and ANFO and a truck and apparently a scouting expedition for the right kind of Federal building to target. This could have been done by anybody with an IQ over 100 and a couple of hundred dollars. And the details increasingly make it seem less likely that it was done by anyone with much more resources than that.
posted by localroger at 7:06 PM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


sonika: “FFS, the bomb was large enough as far as Boston is concerned. This is not going to remembered in Boston as a 'small bombing.' We know it could have been worse, but minimizing it as 'not that bad' is a bit insensitive at this point.”

I think there are a couple of things that people easily miss in reading about this whole thing. For one thing, I think there's just a general tendency to externalize which leads to people totally not understanding what the experience is like of being in a city that goes through this. It's not for nothing that many of the most heartfelt displays of solidarity have come from New York; New York has been through this in a way many cities have not.

I mean – we have to think a bit about what it means, knowing that three people died, that more than a hundred were hospitalized. We have to think about the fear that can inspire, and about the way that that leaves a mark on a specific place. Bostonians will be stolid and headstrong and force themselves not to change their habits, I'm sure, but those are emotions that anyone can know – the feeling that there might be another bombing, the feeling that you or someone you love might be hurt, the knowledge that that kind of violence has been made real and brought into the world so close to you.

The other thing I think people elsewhere totally don't realize about Boston is that it is a small city with a huge population. There's a sense in which it's very centralized, and although of course greater Boston is really a confederation of other districts and neighborhoods, Boston proper is relatively small, and it's kind of shared by all. It's something people all over greater Boston have an experience of. So the sense is almost physical, this sense that a spot that you yourself are familiar with was violated in this way. "Close to home" is not really a deep enough phrase, I don't think.

I mean, I haven't even been in Boston in nearly a decade, and I only lived there for nearly two years, but I remember that spot well enough.
posted by koeselitz at 7:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


It furthers nothing except more chaos to claim that this amateur hour bombing was the work of international terrorists with the backing of huge organizations and possibly nations.

Who is making such claims?

The biggest problem we have now with getting the truth is that I am very convinced the truth is going to be very banal, and after all the hysteria the authorities are going to be reluctant to admit that no matter what the evidence says.

I don't think any of us has enough evidence to be "very convinced" about anything.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:14 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Enough Sympathy to Go Around: Social Media And The Boston Bombings

Saying it's a small bombing isn't the same as saying it's not that bad. The killer constructed two cheap inferior devices, placed them poorly, and still managed to kill three people, disfigure a dozen, and render international chaos. The place and time were as well chosen as the devices themselves were crude and haphazard.

It furthers nothing except more chaos to claim that this amateur hour bombing was the work of international terrorists with the backing of huge organizations and possibly nations.

Exactly. The death toll is incredibly low for an attack at such a crowded event.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:15 PM on April 16, 2013


More on Roger Wicker, the Senator that the letter that tested positive for ricin was adressed to:
Wicker was one of 16 GOP senators who voted to end a filibuster against a gun control bill on Thursday. He was also one of the 12 Senate Republicans who dined with President Barack Obama at the White House last week.
As mentioned earlier, it could be a false alarm, but now we have a possible motive.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:22 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


crush-onastick: Thanks for the book suggestion. That looks like it's right up my alley - I went through a phase a few years ago when I read up on engineering disasters and Deep Survival, which looks to cover similar territory.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, postmark was from Memphis, TN. How about that.
posted by absalom at 7:26 PM on April 16, 2013


I don't think any of us has enough evidence to be "very convinced" about anything.

On the contrary.

The devices used LE, not HE explosives consistent in flame and smoke characteristics with powder or similar chemical propellants. We've got video.

The devices used tumbling shot in the shrapnel mix. We've got pix and testimony. There is a very significantly small percentage of the population that even knows what tumbling shot is, much less that you can buy it cheap.

The two-device deployment was not characteristic of how you do a two device sucker punch. The second device was too far away and went off too soon.

This all adds up to a picture of a bomber that is domestic, not affluent, not connected to an organization, and probably just smart enough to use teh GOOG. I consider that a hell of a lot of pretty good evidence.
posted by localroger at 7:26 PM on April 16, 2013 [14 favorites]


Has there ever been a large bombing in America where somebody or some group didn't claim the credit?"

Umm, doesn't OKC fit that bill in addition to Centennial Park?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


It furthers nothing except more chaos to claim that this amateur hour bombing was the work of international terrorists with the backing of huge organizations and possibly nations.
No one is saying that, my point is that this does not rule out AQ or similar groups, because they are obviously packed with idiots. I mean, would you say the underwear or shoe bomber or time square bomber or Zazi was the result of a "huge organization and possibly nations" - they appear to be the work of a handful of idiots.

All of the attacks AQ and other Muslims groups have done since 9/11 have been total bumbling failures, with the exception of Nidal Hassan who used a gun. And of course this person would have killed far more people if he'd used a gun then this bomb (of course, they wouldn't have been able to get away.)
This all adds up to a picture of a bomber that is domestic, not affluent, not connected to an organization
How does that rule out Islamic terrorism? Those things were all true about the other attacked they tried (and failed) to do in the US since 9/11.

___

That said, I don't personally think it was international or Islamic terrorism either, but I don't think you can rule it out.
posted by delmoi at 7:36 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


This blog entry has some interesting information, including links to a 2010 release by Homeland Security warning about pressure-cooker bombs. I did not realize it, but there was a pressure cooker device involved in the Times Square attempt.

Also, the blog entry points out that the infamous "Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom" Al Queda article mentioned pressure cookers as a suggested bomb housing.
posted by Mid at 7:36 PM on April 16, 2013


Yeah, domestic terrorists tend to be the ones that don't claim credit. The fact that nobody has claimed this makes me think it's a lone mass-shooter type of killer, probably without a coherent political motivation.
posted by empath at 7:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


There is a very significantly small percentage of the population that even knows what tumbling shot is, much less that you can buy it cheap.

Has anyone in the press used the term "tumbiing shot" or is that your own extrapolation from "ball bearings"?
posted by neroli at 7:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Please don't add any more detailed descriptions of gory and disturbing images.
posted by bq at 7:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


CSM - Boston Marathon attack: Circle of possible bombers narrows, experts say
Details emerging from the Boston Marathon bombing so far suggest that the perpetrators are most likely to be identified as American jihadis or, possibly but less likely, antigovernment extremists, say counterterrorism experts.
...
“We’ll know for sure when we get the forensic evidence on these pressure cookers,” says Alexia Ash, head of North America forecasting for IHS Exclusive Analysis Ltd., a specialist intelligence company. “But at this point what we are potentially talking about is really just one or two types of individuals or small groups – both are home-grown terrorists, either home-grown Islamic jihadists or right-wing extremists.”
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:39 PM on April 16, 2013


here is a link to the organization running Tough Ruck.. That is the fundraiser that Carlos Arredondo was at the marathon to support.
posted by bq at 7:39 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


delmoi: "All of the attacks AQ and other Muslims groups have done since 9/11 have been total bumbling failures,"

London and Madrid might disagree.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:40 PM on April 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


This all adds up to a picture of a bomber that is domestic, not affluent, not connected to an organization, and probably just smart enough to use teh GOOG. I consider that a hell of a lot of pretty good evidence.

I think it's incredible that you've figured this much out already, with only the tiniest fraction of the evidence and resources available to investigators.

It's also great that the Metafilter community is indulging your amazing, confident leaps of logic because your conclusion fits the preferred narrative.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:41 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Has anyone in the press used the term "tumbiing shot" or is that your own extrapolation from "ball bearings"?

The term "ball bearings" was used in early news releases by people who didn't have more information than "small steel spheres." Since then it's become apparent that these aren't precisely machined spheres. There are a very limited number of reasons to manufacture crappy steel spheres. Tumbling shot is the only one I know.
posted by localroger at 7:43 PM on April 16, 2013


I just got back from a 4.5-mile run through Cambridge and Boston that was organized today as a sort of combination fundraiser/rally/screw-you-terror event. All day today there have been more runners out than I've seen in a long time. The effect of such a big group was more than I imagined -- easily 500 people, gathered with less than 8 hours notice. I knew it would be (selfishly) cathartic to go out together and reclaim even a little insignificant bit of what was taken from all of us yesterday. What I hadn't expected was how strong the reaction was from folks on the streets, cars, everyone we came across along the route -- the level of support was astonishing.

I'm not much for cheerleading but holy cow I'm proud of my home right now, seeing how hard everyone's fighting back against this crap, from the IBEW sign on the expressway to the fact that in the few hours between the announcement and the run tonight some awesome guy made bibs for us.
posted by range at 7:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Wow, I discovered 2 sets of high rez pics at Cryptome.org. Stunning and absolutely gory

FWIW none of those photos were images I had not seen distributed in mainstream online venues. None are as disturbing as the uncropped version of this photo (cropped) of Carlos Arredondo assisting victim Jeff Bauman Jr.

It happened, and the injuries are horrific. I actually feel like it's less appropriate to be shielded from the grim reality of this bomb's impact than it is to be willing to see and acknowledge it. One of the issues I have with war reporting is that we only see a sanitised version of the impact: the faces of by standers, the careful cropping of victims, the newsreels of wailing mourners, the triumphant struggle of survivors rehabbing months later. That's not what it is. Real human casualty is getting your legs blown off by an IED or a drone or finishing line bomb, in a way that is so indescribably abhorrent it actually must be seen to be understood.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [14 favorites]


> There are a very limited number of reasons to manufacture crappy steel spheres.

It could simply be crappy, beat-up ballbearings from someone's garage. Someone could easily have just dumped a bin of metal trash into the bomb as the last step...
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 7:46 PM on April 16, 2013


There are a very limited number of reasons to manufacture crappy steel spheres.

That's assuming they were crappy spheres before the explosion they were at the heart of.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:48 PM on April 16, 2013


It could simply be crappy, beat-up ballbearings from someone's garage.

Nope. Ball bearings are polished. Even very badly abused precision ball bearings will show characterisitics of their precision past. Also to ChurchHatesTucker, the explosion would not be capable of obliterating this legacy.
posted by localroger at 7:50 PM on April 16, 2013


It could simply be crappy, beat-up ballbearings from someone's garage.

Yeah, I was thinking that someone might go through a junk yard with a hammer and other tools to see what they could scrounge.
posted by XMLicious at 7:50 PM on April 16, 2013


ChurchHatesTucker: " There are a very limited number of reasons to manufacture crappy steel spheres.

That's assuming they were crappy spheres before the explosion they were at the heart of"

That's actually a pretty good assumption. Steel spheres are very hard to deform. There's no way there's enough pressure in an explosion like this to accomplish that. Perhaps if they hit something very hard, but the vast majority would be basically completely intact. Especially, horribly enough, the ones that were removed surgically from victims, there's nothing in or on the typical body that would make much of a dent.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:52 PM on April 16, 2013


Wow, I discovered 2 sets of high rez pics at Cryptome.org. Stunning and absolutely gory, I'm not going to link, you can find them yourself.

Direct links:
Boston Bomb Blasts
Boston Bombs 2

Some of them are quite gory, and just as difficult to view as other pictures already posted. As charlie pointed out, what makes the 2nd set worth looking at, maybe, is the from-above-relatively-wide-angle shots that get a lot of the crowd. It's a good bet the FBI is looking carefully at those.
posted by mediareport at 7:53 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Look, if you are going to manufacture a sphere you are either going to do it right or have a good reason for doing it wrong.

It's been made plain these were made wrong. They were not actually ball bearings. There's a limited number of other options where they came from. Worn ball bearings do not at all resemble casting shot. I've held both in my hand.
posted by localroger at 7:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is there some obvious reason to think they weren't just BBs?
posted by Mid at 7:55 PM on April 16, 2013


It's been made plain these were made wrong. They were not actually ball bearings.

Do you have a source for that?
posted by neroli at 7:56 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


BB's are smaller and not usually made of steel.
posted by localroger at 7:57 PM on April 16, 2013


As promised, the current Medford Sav-Mor Liquors sign on route 16. I think it's even better than IBEW's.
posted by maryr at 7:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [18 favorites]


but if they weren't, what were they?
posted by subbes at 7:58 PM on April 16, 2013


Real human casualty is getting your legs blown off by an IED or a drone or finishing line bomb, in a way that is so indescribably abhorrent it actually must be seen to be understood.

They shouldn't be top secret and inaccessible, but neither should they be shoved in anyone's face because someone thinks they know what it takes for some strawman unenlightened person to fully finally understand "abhorrent" things.
posted by stagewhisper at 7:58 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


There's a reason why the phrase "he could screw up a steel ball" means what it does. And amassing a mess of crappy, beat-up ball bearings is not a trivial task as they are used less often than you probably imagine and the few in cars are probably much larger than was used in this device since it's mass times velocity squared.

It could have been steel shot for shotguns, but when they described it as little metal bits, I, like localroger I suspect, immediately thought of this.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:58 PM on April 16, 2013


Just because a lot of people in this thread have either wondered how helpful they'd be in an emergency, or want to learn to be more helpful in an emergency, I'm linking to this AskMe which was full of good stuff that corroborates what's been said here.
posted by Miko at 8:00 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Slate: What Clues Do Explosions Leave Behind? Incredibly useful ones.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:02 PM on April 16, 2013


...For example, the father of the man who lost his legs. (the nsfl photo in the link) In Grisly Image a Father Sees His Son
posted by stagewhisper at 8:03 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I actually feel like it's less appropriate to be shielded from the grim reality of this bomb's impact than it is to be willing to see and acknowledge it.

As long as the victims are okay with pictures of them in the worst moment of their lives going viral. I don't think I would be.
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:04 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Oh yay. I was wondering what Sav-Mor would do for it. Stay wicked strong!
posted by rmd1023 at 8:07 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


BB's are smaller and not usually made of steel.

But we are charming!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:08 PM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


In Grisly Image a Father Sees His Son

Ooofff. My heart to them. What a way to learn of this.
posted by Miko at 8:08 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


As promised, the current Medford Sav-Mor Liquors sign on route 16.

Love the Sav-Mor in Meffa!
posted by rollbiz at 8:11 PM on April 16, 2013


Who's saying BBs are not usually made of steel? My impression is that usually they are made of steel. I have a BB gun, and I have zinc-plated steel BBs for it.
posted by Miko at 8:11 PM on April 16, 2013


localroger: "what would the logistics be of acquiring 5-10 pounds of powder? Would this be a suspicious amount for a single transaction?"

Late to answer, but even one pound of smokeless powder can do some serious damage. Four ounces of powder can utterly obliterate a large section of concrete lightpost.
posted by notsnot at 8:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sweet Caroline in Yankee Stadium.

Neil Diamond's reaction.

The crowd at Fenway doing it earlier this year.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


With the first blast, Mr. Arredondo jumped over the fence and ran toward the people lying on the ground. What happened next, he later recounted to a reporter: He found a young man, a spectator, whose shirt was on fire. He beat out the flames with his hands. The young man, who turned out to be Jeff Bauman, had lost the lower portion of both legs. He took off a shirt and tied it around the stump of one leg. He stayed with Mr. Bauman, comforting him, until emergency workers came to help carry him to an ambulance.


God bless them all.
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:12 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I for one am okay with disturbing/graphic images in the news - it's the story of reality and what happened, and it's not always cool.

But Christ - how that poor man found out what happened with his son....
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:13 PM on April 16, 2013


Four ounces of powder can utterly obliterate a large section of concrete lightpost.

Dude, you're supposed to follow this sort of thing with "don't ask me how I know this".
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:14 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Kid Charlemagne: "Dude, you're supposed to follow this sort of thing with "don't ask me how I know this"."

Ok, I have friends. Or had - back in high school. I saw the lightpost - the rebar was bent over itself.

Point being, it really didn't take much powder at all.
posted by notsnot at 8:17 PM on April 16, 2013


Published reports indicate that bomb was a simple design, constructed of common materials and required information that was readily available to anyone with the most trivial amount of research. There really isn't anything that can be deduced from that about the person behind it. Tumbling shot isn't some secret mystery revealed only to the 9th level masons. Anyone selling black powder is going to have it on the shelf. Anyone researching black powder is going to have hard time NOT learning of it.

You can order up to 50 pounds of Black Powder at a time from online suppliers based on quick googling. Order sizes seem to be in 1, 5, 10, 25, and 50 pound cases of the stuff.
posted by humanfont at 8:19 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Well, even without definitive evidence to say more, there's at least one thing we can definitely say about whoever planned and carried out this attack: they're cowards. Cowards who kill men, women, and children indiscriminately without even having the decency to explain why or publicly take responsibility for their actions. Whoever did this seems to prefer skulking around in the shadows, fantasizing there's something heroic about murdering unsuspecting eight-year-old kids.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:25 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


neither should they be shoved in anyone's face because someone thinks they know what it takes for some strawman unenlightened person to fully finally understand "abhorrent" things.

Boston.com's Big Picture feature has a policy of presenting disturbing images in the flow of other images, but blacking them out with a warning that the content is graphic. You click to remove the blackout and see the image. I'm fine with that; I prefer that approach to the older mainstream media policy of simply not publishing graphic images.

As long as the victims are okay with pictures of them in the worst moment of their lives going viral. I don't think I would be.

Photojournalism is documentary in nature. Photographing victims is how we report the news, and always have. Nick Ut didn't ask Kim Phuc before snapping her photo as she ran screaming, burned and naked after a napalm bomb, and that photo may well have victimised her twice. It also did more to raise understanding outside the war zone about the atrocities being visited on civilians than any other photo taken during the Vietnam War.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Whatever helps people sleep at night.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:28 PM on April 16, 2013


Has there been a bombing like this in recent history where the person who's done it hasn't stepped forward and has gotten away with it scott free?
posted by codacorolla at 8:29 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Those cryptome photosets are just fascinating. Horrific, but facinating.

There's a fellow in a red jacket and a ballcap visible near the center of the first blast in both sets of photos, helping a prone woman who, as is visible in one of the photos in the first set, is losing quite a lot of blood from severe wounds in her lower legs (I won't describe that in more detail).

It's hard to figure how close together the photos are spaced chronologically, but I've been estimating it by tracking the passage of people who are visible fleeing down the street in multiple photos. In the time it takes a young woman carrying a child in a blue jacket to move a few dozen feet, he has his belt off and has applied a tourniquete to at least one leg. I think in the first shot of the first set, you can see him calling for a man in a white t-shirt to take off his belt for the other leg. Next to no hesitation, just quickly performing the necessary actions to hopefully save a life.

I really hope he didn't know her personally. It would be horrible to have to do that for a loved one.
posted by figurant at 8:31 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


"Has there ever been a large bombing in America where somebody or some group didn't claim the credit?"

Established terrorist groups are usually falling all over themselves to take credit for an attack, whether they did it or not. It would defeat their political purposes not to take credit. Lone nut-ball types not so much, a la Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh. They see themselves as long-term guerilla warriors a la The Turner Diaries.

So we'll see, sooner rather than later I hope.

Also, do pressure cookers have serial numbers? Is it hard to scrape them off?

Not something I ever expected to be Google-ing in my lifetime.
posted by bardic at 8:34 PM on April 16, 2013


like a baby EmpressCallipygos, and I don't even like baseball. Loved how people- at least as live-edited by the sports camera, were initially (and kind of continually) indifferent, but not anti-, and then gradually enthusiasm seemed to build... Patton Oswalt's right, people- even Yankees fans - and even though I don't like baseball I know how weird *that* is- are good. Those are good people. We're almost *all* good people, it's good to say so sometimes.
posted by hap_hazard at 8:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I really hope he didn't know her personally. It would be horrible to have to do that for a loved one.

On that topic, I saw this video from a victim today who had to do just that for his wife.
posted by Miko at 8:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Published reports indicate that bomb was a simple design, constructed of common materials and required information that was readily available to anyone with the most trivial amount of research. There really isn't anything that can be deduced from that about the person behind it.

I agree with this, but only up to this point: we can deduce that this is likely not the work of a sophisticated group operating inside the U.S. If you theorize that a person/group bent on terror will strike with the maximum impact reasonably available to it, then whoever did this has meager technical and organizational means. Limited technical means because everything published so far suggests that these devices were unsophisticated. Limited organizational means because there were "only" two devices, when, if you had a lot of people in your group, you could replicate the devices and do more damage.

So, my money is on a lone wolf Eric Rudolph type or some lone unsophisticated patsy who was influenced/encouraged from afar like Faisal Shahzad (Times Square), but, yeah, that doesn't really narrow it down much.
posted by Mid at 8:38 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


bardic: Also, do pressure cookers have serial numbers? Is it hard to scrape them off?
Even if the pot had a serial number, what difference would it make unless it was registered with the manufacturer? It's not like guns where somewhere in Washington there's a slip of paper with the sale recorded.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:42 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Whatever helps people sleep at night.

Sure, I was being selfish here. The way I found out that this horrible thing had just happened to the community, organization, event, and *people* that were (and still are) a huge part of my 46 years on this earth was by inadvertently clicking on a twitter link of the marathon finish and seeing what I at first thought was a confetti strewn pavement at the finish line of the race. I rolled around on the floor screaming for a good ten minutes before collecting myself enough to be able to start dialing the numbers of all the people I knew would be at the finish line area. If you really need to know, not having that sprung on me in that way would have helped me sleep better, it's true.
posted by stagewhisper at 8:42 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


Even if the pot had a serial number, what difference would it make unless it was registered with the manufacturer? It's not like guns where somewhere in Washington there's a slip of paper with the sale recorded.

The manufacturer might know what retailer it was shipped to, and when.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 8:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"what difference would it make unless it was registered with the manufacturer?"

Isn't that the whole point of serial numbers? To track where and when stuff is purchased via manufacturer records?
posted by bardic at 8:45 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Those cryptome photosets are just fascinating. Horrific, but facinating.

Am I missing something? The blue mailbox vanishes. How did somebody get a cooker in it? Key?
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:55 PM on April 16, 2013


In terms of Brokaw, civil liberties, and all that. As I posted on Facebook to someone suggesting torture was OK to save American lives:

We are Americans. We should be braver than this. Yes there will be deaths due to terror attacks. That's the price we pay for our freedoms. We should be braver...
posted by Windopaene at 8:56 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


There are a very limited number of reasons to manufacture crappy steel spheres. Tumbling shot is the only one I know.

Shotguns now commonly use steel shot to avoid lead issues.
posted by Jahaza at 8:59 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Blue Jello Elf: The manufacturer might know what retailer it was shipped to, and when.
bardic: Isn't that the whole point of serial numbers? To track where and when stuff is purchased via manufacturer records?
I guess what I'm saying is I would be very surprised if given just the serial number the manufacturer could track that kind of mass produced item to a retail location. There's no benefit to it and a non-trivial cost for them. I expect they only care once the consumer has purchased and registers it.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:59 PM on April 16, 2013


Well organized, sophisticated terrorist groups use these kinds of bombs in attacks on public spaces regularly.

I guess what I'm saying is I would be very surprised if given just the serial number the manufacturer could track that kind of mass produced item to a retail location.

One of the benefits of the Walmart and Costco universe is that these retailers track the serial number of everything they sell because they are obsessed with returns and customer satisfaction. Manufacturers the implement Six Sigma quality plans and track the heck out of everything get better deals in setting margins with those big retailers. If it was bought new, it probably can be tracked to the store that sold it, possibly to the sales transaction. However items like this also end up on secondary markets like eBay, garage sales and thrift shops where it would be untraceable.
posted by humanfont at 9:07 PM on April 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I was sceptical of localroger's assertion about tumbling shot, but dang me if the link to this auction wasn't convincing. Round bits, funny bits, and sticks of metal. Compare those sticks to this description of the shrapnel as containing "nails without heads".

There are actual "nails without heads" you can buy, but they're not common items. In contrast, here you have all the elements described in one package.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


That's the price we pay for our freedoms.

Could someone explains to me what exactly this means? I don't think foreign terrorists hate the US because they hate french fries and freedom, but because US foreign policy is deeply flawed and destructive and exercised in their own backyards and on their own family members. And I'm pretty sure all of the right wing domestic terrorists are pissed off because America isn't free enough for them, what with the taxes and the piss-poor socialist healthcare and the background checks for gun licenses and the ban against armor-piercing pistol ammunition.

I'm not being a smart ass: the statement "That's the price we pay for freedom" just doesn't add up for me. What am I missing?
posted by DarlingBri at 9:12 PM on April 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


He's saying it's worth suffering some casualties to be the kind of country where terror suspects and witnesses aren't tortured by police and intelligence agencies.
posted by chrchr at 9:15 PM on April 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Boston's "Man on the Roof" Captures Amateur Detectives' Attention.
posted by ericb at 9:16 PM on April 16, 2013


DarlingBri: "I'm not being a smart ass: the statement "That's the price we pay for freedom" just doesn't add up for me. What am I missing?"

I don't think it's saying "people will do this because we're free and they don't like it", but "we could reduce these incidents if we lived in more of a police state with less freedom, more extensive monitoring, etc., but we have (so far, more or less) chosen not to live in a police state to that extent, and therefore things like this are bound to happen, hence it is the price for freedom".
posted by Bugbread at 9:18 PM on April 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


Dennis Lehane: Messing With the Wrong City.
posted by ericb at 9:19 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Well organized, sophisticated terrorist groups use these kinds of bombs in attacks on public spaces regularly."

But they tend to use much more powerful bombs. What happened in Boston was horrible but I'm relatively thankful that apparently an expert wasn't at work.
posted by bardic at 9:20 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston's "Man on the Roof" Captures Amateur Detectives' Attention.
posted by ericb at 12:16 AM on April 17 [+] [!]
from article, quoting The Sun:
THIS chilling image shows a mystery figure lurking on a rooftop – as a bomb blast rips through the Boston Marathon finishing line below. The person does not seem to react as the ground-floor of the building erupts into flames following the second explosion.

huh? how on earth can they see enough to see if the person was "reacting?" They can't.
posted by sweetkid at 9:21 PM on April 16, 2013


Did the Boston Marathon Bomber Time the Explosions to Guarantee the Most Possible Casualties?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:25 PM on April 16, 2013


ob1quixote: "Even if the pot had a serial number, what difference would it make unless it was registered with the manufacturer? It's not like guns where somewhere in Washington there's a slip of paper with the sale recorded."

Odds are, pressure cooker sales are tracked more closely than gun sales in some states. Those slips of paper don't exist.
posted by schmod at 9:27 PM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


Harvard EdCast: Discussing Tragedy with Children.
posted by ericb at 9:30 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Does it seem odd that noone has claimed responsibility? Given that the attack was in some sense 'successful' I would think there would be a surplus of people or groups claiming to have done it, rather than the opposite. I dont mean to be disrespectful or snarky or cynical.
posted by newdaddy at 9:57 PM on April 16, 2013


I think it is odd. Though it seem consistent with the idea that the person responsible is not a 'professional' terrorist. The person's mind was focused on the act itself, not the aftermath. It's not terribly unreasonable to think that they expected to be dead at this point.
posted by Quonab at 10:22 PM on April 16, 2013


"Dennis Lehane: Messing With the Wrong City."

Thanks for linking that, ericb. Most of what I know about Boston, which is very little, comes from reading Lehane's books. When it was announced that Martin Richard was from Dorchester, that had meaning for me (and I thought, "'middle-class' not working-class?").

"Am I missing something? The blue mailbox vanishes. How did somebody get a cooker in it? Key?"

I'm very unclear on what the deal is with the blue US mailboxes and the olive package pick-up boxes. I still think it's interesting that the bombs were placed pretty much exactly in locations where these show up in Google Street View. But those Street View images are pretty old (for example, the second bomb was right in front of "Forum", which in Street View was "Vox Populi" before it went out of business).

I don't think either of the kinds of boxes were at the first site yesterday. I've not found any evidence of them in photos taken yesterday, before or after the blast.

And I don't think the second site had a US mailbox at all — there's not one visible in Street View. But the olive pick-up box was still there yesterday, before and after the blasts. So, all in all, I mostly think it was a coincidence.

However, after studying the video and photos extensively, I'm pretty sure that the first blast was centered closer to the storefront, maybe about six feet toward the storefront from the lightpost. But the second blast was quite close to the street. I'm not convinced it was that white bag sitting next to the box curbside (just on the street side of the barrier) in the photo that's been linked; but maybe. It looks like post-blast some metal railing was bent around the edge of the pick-up box, but I could be misinterpreting the image.

For anyone interested in the exact location on a Google Map, I'll re-link my map. (I've added some details and made the positioning more exact with regard to what I've determined from photos. Also — I was wrong when I earlier wrote that the phone video posted early in the thread in which the second blast is heard was 200 feet away. It's more like 540 feet west.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:37 PM on April 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


newdaddy: "Does it seem odd that noone has claimed responsibility?"

If you mean "isn't it odd that people who didn't do it haven't tried to take credit", I'm not really sure. I know that is a stereotype of terrorist activities, but I don't know how true it is.

If you mean "isn't it odd that the person/people who did it hasn't/haven't taken credit", then no, it's not really odd. I don't believe Timothy McVeigh claimed responsibility for the Oklahoma City bombings. Again, I'm not positive, but I don't think the Unabomber took credit at first either. I know the Atlanta Olympic bomber didn't take credit.
posted by Bugbread at 10:40 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"If you mean 'isn't it odd that the person/people who did it hasn't/haven't taken credit', then no, it's not really odd. I don't believe Timothy McVeigh claimed responsibility for the Oklahoma City bombings. Again, I'm not positive, but I don't think the Unabomber took credit at first either. I know the Atlanta Olympic bomber didn't take credit."

For what it's worth, which is little, contra BobbyVan, I think this is one among several clues that the perpetrator(s) weren't part of some larger, organized terrorist organization. I think it's one person, two at the most, working alone with no prior experience and, right now, is more concerned with getting away than taking credit and making whatever political point they're trying to make.

That is to say, I'm guessing that he's thinking there will be plenty of time to make a difficult-to-trace phone call or send a letter when he's farther away. Right now, it would be just one more clue to his whereabouts. He should be worried about all the photographic evidence (because, as I read it, he must have dropped the bombs off not too long before they exploded) and the forensic evidence from the cookers and whatnot. Anything the bomber does right now to reveal his motivation will substantially narrow the already-narrowing list of evidenciary intersections.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:51 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


"No more hurting people. Peace." -- Martin Richard.

Bless you, young boy man. Bless you. Gone too soon.
posted by ericb at 10:54 PM on April 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


It would be very interesting to have a public database of all the recorded footage around the bomb blast areas from the 48 hours up through a few hours after the event.
posted by humanfont at 10:57 PM on April 16, 2013


I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but I was just thinking about the recent post about the North Korean terrorist who bombed a Korean Air flight in 1987, killing over a hundred passengers, and who was pardoned by the South Korean president in 1998, because it was his understanding that she had been brainwashed.

Even reading it last week I was blown away, trying to imagine such an action of mercy being taken today.

Now it seems pretty much impossible. Imagine the most sympathetic perpetrator you can possibly think of for this. In no way will they get that kind of treatment.

And I'm not saying that whoever the perpetrator is should get any sympathy - this was crazy and horrific and senseless and frankly inhuman. All I'm saying is that Kim Hyun Hui went on to marry, have a child, write books, give the money from those books to the families of her victims, and give intelligence to the South Korean government.

And that is unimaginable now.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:11 PM on April 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


"trying to imagine such an action of mercy being taken today"

There was a ton of propaganda value in the South Korean government being able to claim they'd "cured" a North Korean spy and terrorist. In a sense, it was like saying "our propaganda is stronger than yours!"

So I wouldn't read to much tender feeling into it. South Koreans still identify strongly with North Koreans in an ethnic sense. "Rehabilitating" the spy, whether her conversion was authentic or not, was a much better move from a PR standpoint than execution of life in prison.
posted by bardic at 11:33 PM on April 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Was out last night onthe Yas Marina Formula 1 racetrack (a big, 3.5-mile track), in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, which they open up on Tuesdays for walkers, runners and cyclists to take laps, and saw a serious runner go by with "BOSTON" written down his arm. Nice to see.
posted by ambient2 at 12:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


I dreamed last night that this happened as I was finishing at one of my marathons. it seems really confusing. the elation, the happiness, the relief, then THAT? this must have been such a rapid change in emotions.
posted by krautland at 12:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wouldn't a lone nut have used a gun? It would have lead to a higher death toll. The method - the bomb - is what leads to the terror so whoever did this is, by definition, a terrorist.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 1:44 AM on April 17, 2013


"Wouldn't a lone nut have used a gun?"

Not if he wanted to live to terrorize another day. Again, cf. Rudolph.

The thought that the person or persons responsible are still out there is genuinely disturbing.
posted by bardic at 1:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not being a smart ass: the statement "That's the price we pay for freedom" just doesn't add up for me. What am I missing?
Just that we could prevent these things by becoming an obsessed security state where every sale of everything is tracked, multiple checkpoints everywhere, etc.
And I'm not saying that whoever the perpetrator is should get any sympathy - this was crazy and horrific and senseless and frankly inhuman. All I'm saying is that Kim Hyun Hui went on to marry, have a child, write books, give the money from those books to the families of her victims, and give intelligence to the South Korean government.

And that is unimaginable now.
It's not unimaginable in the rest of the world. Anders Brevik was given 21 years or something, after which he'll likely be released, supposedly.
Wouldn't a lone nut have used a gun? It would have lead to a higher death toll. The method - the bomb - is what leads to the terror so whoever did this is, by definition, a terrorist.
You'll note whoever did this is still neither dead or in jail, which would likely be the case if they'd use a gun.
posted by delmoi at 1:59 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Charlemagne In Sweatpants: "Wouldn't a lone nut have used a gun? It would have lead to a higher death toll. The method - the bomb - is what leads to the terror so whoever did this is, by definition, a terrorist."

As bardic says, he wouldn't have used a gun if he wanted to get away with it, plus he may have believed that two bombs would kill more than he could have with a gun.

Second, terrorism is the use of terror in order to achieve political aims. Language is malleable, so I guess you can call anyone who causes terror a terrorist if you want, but don't go descriptivist on the word "terrorist" and use the prescriptivist expression "by definition" at the same time. One or the other.

(Personally, I find that definition of "terrorist" weird, because it would mean that the kid on my block we were all scared of because he gave us rabbit punches and charlie horses wasn't a bully, he was a terrorist. As much as I disliked him, calling him a terrorist just seems silly.)
posted by Bugbread at 2:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Even reading it last week I was blown away, trying to imagine such an action of mercy being taken today.

For context, recall that Kim Dae-Jung was only the second civilian president of South Korea since the end of hostilities, and was the first to push a "Sunshine Policy" on improving relations with the North.

I would also caution against judging attitudes in the US to apply to other countries. 9/11 certainly put us in a mode of condemning "terrorism" with a vehemence that only partially befitted our being victimized by the largest such attack in history, and with an even more unbefitting resistane to self-analysis such that we condemn a tactic itself rather than an ideology. This has left us in two states of mind about such events, which I think is demonstrated by some of the division in this very thread between those ready to ascribe this to foreign terrorism, whether or not by rational means, and those rather more disposed to have the outcome be condemnation of domestic right-wing militants.

After all, "Land for Peace" was, for instance, a real Israeli policy position, and in extrapolation it's an "action of mercy" in the eyes of those who believe that only unending punishment is deserved by Palestinians because some of them have chosen to express themselves using terror. History generally shows that buying off groups (cf: Taliban, lots of soft-power diplomacy by the US during the Cold War) works better than eradicating them, although it may just be possible if you're pretty old-school in your allowed morality (cf: Putin).

So there may be places where mercy, or what others may simply define as humane punishment, remains a viable option, even if not in the US.
posted by dhartung at 2:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The method - the bomb - is what leads to the terror so whoever did this is, by definition, a terrorist.

Well, if you want to be all definitional, the time my uncle got into a verbal war of words with a sheriff's deputy was "making terroristic threats" [ACTUAL GEORGIA STATUTE] and required a plea bargain down to a disorderly conduct to escape the county clink.

Personally, I'm pretty leery about applying the word "terrorism" to something that may turn out to be one guy in his backyard shed. I think we should for our own utilitarian sakes apply that almost only when there is an organized group attempting to create a political end state in some fashion, as evidenced by statements, manifestoes, phone warnings, or whatever means so that the media discusses the message. I say almost because I think there are exceptions to every rule, in this case, Breivik being an example.

But the words we use should be chosen with a view to the outcome we desire here. I think some people *cough* FOX *cough* think the word "terrorism" means "gear up and invade somewhere" and if you don't say it, like the President almost didn't, then you hain't gonna gear up and invade somewhere, which makes you a bad patriot and so and so forth and hey, can't the House hold impeachment hearings? In other words, a tendentious use of words.
posted by dhartung at 2:21 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Wouldn't a lone nut have used a gun?

Unabomber, Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh, Hans Brevick. Many of your mass-shooters also had bombs, such as columbine as well.
posted by empath at 2:44 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


NFL hopeful Brandon O’Brien re-enlists in Marines following Boston attacks
posted by Drinky Die at 3:52 AM on April 17, 2013


THIS chilling image shows a mystery figure lurking on a rooftop

Any number of tinfoil hat relatives have posted that photo as if they had discovered the all-important Easter egg in the investigation. If you know anything about the marathon or the area it's totally unremarkable. There are loads of balconies and roof decks around, and even in office buildings, people open up those spaces to family and friends and have parties. Lots of people watch from their apartment windows. I know this is like a perfectly composed shot in a movie, but really. It's not a "Mystery figure," it's someone who was probably watching the race and came outside to see what the fuck the giant noise was.

terroristic threats

That's the normal verbiage in most states for making threats of harm or death against someone - even if it's just disordered "I'm gonna kick your ass" yelling, it's a charge often applied in assaults of the altercation kind.
posted by Miko at 4:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


It's not unimaginable in the rest of the world. Anders Brevik was given 21 years or something, after which he'll likely be released, supposedly.

Q: Will Breivik ever get out?
A: Legal experts say it is unlikely Breivik will ever be released but no one can say for sure. One thing is certain though: it won't happen for as long as Norwegian authorities consider him dangerous to society.

"Legally speaking, he could of course theoretically be a free man in some years. But realistically speaking he would be incarcerated for perhaps the rest of his life," said Lasse Qvigstad, a former Oslo chief prosecutor.
posted by dng at 4:20 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


.....not to mention that at any large event in a major city post-911 is likely to have law enforcement positioned strategically, often on rooftops.
posted by Windigo at 4:21 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Snopes has covered the man on the roof.
posted by pixie at 4:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I had seen the Snopes but I think the entry fails to create the context - that the roofs and balconies are all full of people that day.
posted by Miko at 4:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Oh, man. I really hope this does not see the enlistments that it did last time.

Look, if you are upset by the Boston Marathon bombing, and want to do something to stop it from happening, become an EMT. Become a policeman. Join up with the FBI or Homeland Security or the NSA. But for the love of god, do not enlist in the military. There is literally zero you can do in the armed services to stop these things. All you can do is go take war to other countries - which won't stop terror at home.
posted by corb at 4:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [49 favorites]


Look, there have been worse mass casualty incidents on American highways several times in the last month.

Knock it off.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:31 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


Look, if you are upset by the Boston Marathon bombing,

...go outside and run, or look up Couch to 5k, and start running. Everyone who died or who was injured on Monday was there to celebrate their runner. There is no better way to honor them than to run for people who cannot.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:33 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Mod note: People who want to argue the "worse things happen every day" thing, please go do that in the Metatalk thread. This thread is for talking about this incident, even if you don't personally think people should do that.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:38 AM on April 17, 2013 [10 favorites]


dhartung, the inability of government and media to classify the sustained campaign of stalking, harassment, bombings and murders directed against those who work at abortion clinics "terrorism" has been a pretty upsetting sticking point for feminists in this country. It is a hell of a lot more serious than the actions of a neighborhood bully.
posted by emjaybee at 5:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


For what it's worth, someone on LiveLeak thinks they may have found a photo of someone carrying a bag that looks like the one in an image provided by the FBI.
posted by BobbyVan at 5:27 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


Well you can't argue that he doesn't fit the "sort of crazy looking white guy" profile. But is that bag big enough to fit a 6 liter pressure cooker?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:30 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm struck by the awkward way he is holding the bag. It appears to be a backpack that he is carrying with both straps hanging from his forearm, as if it is very delicate and/or heavy.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:34 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: But is that bag big enough to fit a 6 liter pressure cooker?

A 6 liter pressure cooker isn't as big as you might think. This one is 19" x 10" x 7".
posted by Rock Steady at 5:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


In fairness though, lots of people in a crowd like that would be taking extra care to keep their bags in front of them (to avoid pickpocketers) rather than have it on their backs. Could be someone just not used to big cities trying to keep his bag safe and looking awkward doing it.

Similarities in the bag and his placement on the sidewalk are interesting, however.
posted by olinerd at 5:38 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


If you enlarge the last picture, you can see that he is definitely standing in the area of the first blast. However, there are also many other people with black bookbags, and some of those bags even have gray stripes on them. Ultimately, where are these pictures from? Are there more? Shouldn't there be another picture of him without the bag? At the least, that dude needs to be found and have a chat with authorities -- if not for the sake of the investigation, then at least for his own sake to say that it wasn't him.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:39 AM on April 17, 2013


In further fairness, any conclusions drawn regarding the similarities between the bag in the photo and the bag in question should consider the sheer number of backpacks present. Even on a non-marathon day in that part of Boston, I'd say chances are not insignificant that you'd find two people with the same exact color/make/model of backback in Copley Square.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:41 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm struck by the awkward way he is holding the bag. It appears to be a backpack that he is carrying with both straps hanging from his forearm, as if it is very delicate and/or heavy.

Yeah, I noticed that. It is, though, the sort of thing you might do in a crowd, though not with a heavy bag. (I never carry my backpack in any way but on my back. I did on the subway in Japan--it was much easier to hold it so it was in from of my shins over my feet than to try and not whack commuters with it.)

Honestly, though, while you might be able to get a 19" x 10" x 7" object into a typically-sized backpack, which is what it looks like in the photo, you wouldn't be able to do it easily. 19" is too big for my backpack, I'm pretty sure.
posted by hoyland at 5:42 AM on April 17, 2013


Yeah, don't go overboard on crowd founded suspects. There's another one and I've seen at least 3 "suspicious backpack incident person" over the past few hours.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, in one picture he appears to have it on one forearm, with both of them downwards - tilting and one hand kind of casually over the other. It seems not like how you'd react to something really heavy - you'd tilt your arms upwards to keep it from sliding down.
posted by corb at 5:45 AM on April 17, 2013


I really struggled with whether to post the links to those photos. The mods may want to give some thought about whether it's appropriate. This guy's face is clearly recognizable, and for all we know he might have been cleared by the authorities (and maybe even injured by the blast himself). The similarities between the backpacks are intriguing, but I'd hate to be even a small part of a Richard Jewell-like situation.
posted by BobbyVan at 5:45 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


olinerd: In fairness though, lots of people in a crowd like that would be taking extra care to keep their bags in front of them (to avoid pickpocketers) rather than have it on their backs.

That's a good point.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:46 AM on April 17, 2013


The other thing is that if you look at the marathon timer (noticeable in the upper right of many pics), then that guy was standing in that spot for at least twenty minutes. That doesn't seem like a guy with a bomb in a bag. I suppose he could have been scanning for authorities and waiting for the perfect opportunity to leave it. But still -- doesn't quite fit.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:48 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hopefully the internet 'crowdsourcing' sleuthing that's going on, will end at 'here's a theory we put together with red circles and arrows'... for the FBI to use.

I don't think 4chan et al will be able to convert what's borderline racial/appearance profiling into doxing some poor sod who had nothing to do with it. (but I could be wrong of course)
posted by panaceanot at 5:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


And also, the place where this guy is standing is actually not at the blast site -- it's next to the lamp-post that is further down the street (away from the finish line). Doesn't mean he couldn't have turned toward the finish line and dropped it off while walking away, but it does mean that he was standing in a place that was not the first blast site for about 20 minutes.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Honestly, though, while you might be able to get a 19" x 10" x 7" object into a typically-sized backpack, which is what it looks like in the photo, you wouldn't be able to do it easily. 19" is too big for my backpack, I'm pretty sure.

The 19" is because there is a handle. You could cut the handle off, or find a pressure cooker without a long handle like that pretty easily. I think one would fit in a backpack without too much trouble.
posted by Quonab at 5:54 AM on April 17, 2013


Hopefully the internet 'crowdsourcing' sleuthing that's going on...

If only Photoshop played a major role in perpetrating this crime.
posted by shothotbot at 5:57 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


On the way to work today, I noticed that the Capitol Police have systematically removed all of the trash cans around the Capitol.
posted by schmod at 6:02 AM on April 17, 2013


Check this photo from Grand Central Station, linked from schmod's link. Intermission's over and the curtain rises on a new act, here at Security Theater.
posted by mediareport at 6:13 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


>(could it have turned black in the explosion?)

Anything's possible... could have turned brown at the very least.

Wild speculation would be an attack by George Bush's religious enemy "Al Queda".

Less wild speculation would be an attack by Barack Obama's political enemy "Right Wing Patriots".

My speculation would be an attack on people who bullied a fat kid who couldn't make the marathon.

Speculation is what it is (although Hanlon's Razor is useful).
posted by panaceanot at 6:27 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: The only thing that's off is that the bag is not black (could it have turned black in the explosion?).

My understanding was that the FBI was confident in saying the bag was black before the explosion, based on their testing.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reddit has an entire subcategory devoted to poring through these photos. Take everything with massive amounts of salt.
posted by BobbyVan at 6:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


My understanding was that the FBI was confident in saying the bag was black before the explosion, based on their testing.

Both bags or only one bag? Was the picture of the fabric of the black bag that is being circulated from the first or second blast site? Same bags at both sites?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:40 AM on April 17, 2013


New photo of one of the bags, released by law enforcement.
posted by BobbyVan at 6:42 AM on April 17, 2013


Was the XLR cable in the bag? Seems like a weird thing to be in there...
posted by schmod at 6:44 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


mediareport: "Check this photo from Grand Central Station, linked from schmod's link. Intermission's over and the curtain rises on a new act, here at Security Theater."

Oh, neat. The NYPD installed covers to hide the bombs.
posted by schmod at 6:45 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Just popped up on twitter, Children's Hospital Boston Amazon Wishlist.

Thanks for posting this. I think I should send a lego set and a few Ratatouille DVDs. Just cuz.
posted by Theta States at 6:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: Both bags or only one bag? Was the picture of the fabric of the black bag that is being circulated from the first or second blast site? Same bags at both sites?

I guess I have only heard about one bag. I don't know if that is because they think it was the same kind of bag at both sites or if they only have solid info about one of the bags.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:56 AM on April 17, 2013


The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that two people were involved. Two people, two backpacks, two bombs. A person walking through the streets with two large backpacks would be very conspicuous. Two people walking together, each with a backpack, would not.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Blasdelb: If Boston has just under 250,000 households and over 8,000 Bostonians have offered to open their homes to perfect strangers that is over 3.23% of all the households in Boston. Even considering that some portion of those homes are likely just outside of Boston's borders and do not count towards the denominator, Wow.

This is actually just the news media (even the *local* news media) being incredibly misleading in a way they practice all the time. One minute they'll say Boston is the 89.63 sq mi city of 625K people named "Boston", another minute they'll refer to some other data that assumes they're going with the "urban" area of 1,774 sq mi with 4.2M people, another minute they'll be referring to the official US OMB Metropolitan Statistical Area of 4,511 sq mi and 4.6M people. The last of those is the federal government's quite useful definition of the city, which basically everybody should be using for everything except when talking about counsel and mayoral elections.

So in your example, it's 250K households, i.e. City of Boston, but I assure you a significant chunk of the households that people have offered up are in Cambridge, Newton, Somerville, Ashland, Framingham, Natick, Wellesley, and Hopkinton, almost all of which is reasonably classified as "in the city".
posted by atbash at 7:01 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that two people were involved. Two people, two backpacks, two bombs. A person walking through the streets with two large backpacks would be very conspicuous. Two people walking together, each with a backpack, would not.

Maybe someone else who is familiar with hanging out at the finish line of a marathon can comment on this. Would it be that unusual? I imagine lots of people who are there to meet multiple runners might be carrying multiple bags.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:08 AM on April 17, 2013


The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that two people were involved. Two people, two backpacks, two bombs.

Or the guy made two trips from his car.
posted by enn at 7:10 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that two people were involved. Two people, two backpacks, two bombs. A person walking through the streets with two large backpacks would be very conspicuous. Two people walking together, each with a backpack, would not.

Or a large duffel bag, carried by one person, could have held two smaller backpacks/bags.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:12 AM on April 17, 2013


Maybe someone else who is familiar with hanging out at the finish line of a marathon can comment on this. Would it be that unusual? I imagine lots of people who are there to meet multiple runners might be carrying multiple bags.

You've either just finished the run or you're watching carefully for whoever you're waiting for. I'm not sure it would draw much attention.
posted by jquinby at 7:13 AM on April 17, 2013


Two bags wouldn't stand out. Most people would just think you are looking after a runner's gear.
posted by pixie at 7:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The released pics of circuit boards are pretty low-rez but they are very consistent with some hardware I've seen for UHF RF remote control.
posted by localroger at 7:22 AM on April 17, 2013


Looking for black backpack photos seems a bit like looking for white trucks during the DC sniper thing.
posted by humanfont at 7:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Is that released pic have a bicycle chain in the debris?

I wonder if the suspect biked to the location to avoid needing to take a car with all the traffic issues. Much easier to escape on a bike than via a car or on foot.
posted by vuron at 7:30 AM on April 17, 2013


Is that released pic have a bicycle chain in the debris?

I've heard reports of not just the ball bearings, but also razor blades, zippers, and bike chains in the "shrapnel". So probably that's what you're seeing. Anything that would cause damage when hit.
posted by anastasiav at 7:33 AM on April 17, 2013


I imagine lots of people who are there to meet multiple runners might be carrying multiple bags.

Spectators don't carry the runners' bags; race officials take care of that. There were a lot of unclaimed bags after the explosions.

Of course, someone with two bags might just be carrying a friend's while they sought out a port-a-potty or something.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:37 AM on April 17, 2013


Higher res photos of the circuit board here

Warning: includes blood

Also has a shot of the ball bearings and nails.
posted by pixie at 7:37 AM on April 17, 2013


Spectators don't carry the runners' bags; race officials take care of that.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. At many races, bag check is a huge pain in the butt. If I had my husband with me, I would probably give him my bag at a big city race.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:38 AM on April 17, 2013


Last week's xkcd "What If?" was eerily prescient, and yet even Randall Munroe didn't predict this horrific use of "science": http://whatif.xkcd.com/40

EDIT: Sorry, didn't check that this was already posted.
posted by mysticreferee at 7:38 AM on April 17, 2013


Yeah I never check a bag if I can avoid it.
posted by pixie at 7:39 AM on April 17, 2013


Looking for black backpack photos seems a bit like looking for white trucks during the DC sniper thing.

No kidding. There are at least four backpacks carried by four different people in this one photo that fit the basic profile.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


There are at least four backpacks carried by four different people in this one photo

Sigh. Happy people.
posted by Trochanter at 7:44 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sigh. Happy people.

Damn, that photo upset me more than most of the ones of the aftermath of the blasts.
posted by marxchivist at 7:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The New Yorker has this piece on the not-a-suspect Saudi national.
posted by pixiecrinkle at 8:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


An open letter to the person(s) responsible for the Boston Marathon bombings on April 15, 2013.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:09 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Those Tenergy batteries in the link from Pixie aren't common. The brand and the sub-C size is not a commodity, walmart-type item. Maybe a hobby/RC shop...hopefully a little lead there.
posted by werkzeuger at 8:11 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Does anyone recognize the logo on the zipper pull in the fifth photo (warning: blood) from pixie's link? It looks familiar but I can't place it.
posted by enn at 8:13 AM on April 17, 2013


enn, foxhead
posted by pixie at 8:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


enn: Does anyone recognize the logo on the zipper pull in the fifth photo (warning: blood) from pixie's link? It looks familiar but I can't place it.

Fox Head
posted by Rock Steady at 8:15 AM on April 17, 2013


I've bought tenergy cells from some all-battery.com for RC use. They are cheap and easily available online.
posted by jclarkin at 8:24 AM on April 17, 2013


According to bloomberg, the secret service says that yesterday a letter containing a suspicious substance addressed to the president was received.
posted by shothotbot at 8:25 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The New Yorker has this piece on the not-a-suspect Saudi national.

Wierd photo choice... I walk by that newspaper seller outside Penn Station all the time.
posted by Jahaza at 8:26 AM on April 17, 2013


I'm really uneasy about armchair internet investigating based on contextless photos. It seems to me like the chance of striking on and harassment of a completely innocent party is unacceptably high. This happened even in the pre-internet days, but mob mentality seem to make it more likely.
posted by muddgirl at 8:30 AM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


It's not for nothing that many of the most heartfelt displays of solidarity have come from New York; New York has been through this in a way many cities have not.

Something Jon Stewart mentioned last night. (Video).
posted by ericb at 8:32 AM on April 17, 2013


Long thin circuit board is a dead ringer for one of these.

The less slim board doesn't exactly match any products I see offhand but is exactly the right size to be a carrier for a CIP-8D decoder IC. Schematics.
posted by localroger at 8:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The devices used tumbling shot in the shrapnel mix. We've got pix and testimony. There is a very significantly small percentage of the population that even knows what tumbling shot is, much less that you can buy it cheap.

Isn't this tumbling shot just ball bearings?

Everyone knows what they are and could easily find where to buy them if they wanted to.
posted by Reggie Knoble at 8:41 AM on April 17, 2013


Would this Foxhead bag be big enough for a pressure cooker? Or could that zipper have come from a bystander's clothing or bag?
posted by Talia Devane at 8:41 AM on April 17, 2013


NBC: Federal officials say they believe they know who sent the letters to the Senate and the White House

I'm assuming it's unrelated to Boston.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on April 17, 2013


I thought the SMDs in the crime scene photos seemed larger and the board cruder than the sparkfun link, but who knows what damage it suffered in the blast? So what would the implication be if there was a UHF reciever involved? Would it be used in a cellphone-trigger scenario or does it mean the bomber was nearby and detonated with a homemade transmitter?
posted by werkzeuger at 8:43 AM on April 17, 2013


Isn't this tumbling shot just ball bearings?

My understanding is that ball bearings are machined to tighter tolerances.
posted by Jahaza at 8:47 AM on April 17, 2013


I have a couple of these tx-rx pairs and there are several manufacturers whose models vary a bit in component placement but have similar form factors for interchangeability. If that is what was used then the transmitter would also be homemade, with separate buttons for each control channel. The range would be a few hundred feet.
posted by localroger at 8:49 AM on April 17, 2013


"I'm assuming it's unrelated to Boston."

MSNBC is reporting that they are not related. I'm not sure if that included the suspicious package found near Senator Richard Shelby's office today.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:50 AM on April 17, 2013


Another poignant New Yorker piece.

Also, Trayvon Martin's family send message to Martin Richard's family. Something in my eye...
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


The New York Times is reporting that the bombs were set off by common kitchen timers, not by radio.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:53 AM on April 17, 2013


Oh, meant to also include Colbert's intro from last night, and this Dennis Lehan piece in the NYT today. These have been cropping up on my Facebook this morning (Boston-area resident).
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:56 AM on April 17, 2013


(sorry, forgot to double-check whether the Lehane piece had been posted -- it had).
posted by AwkwardPause at 8:59 AM on April 17, 2013


Also wouldn't it be strange (and I know I am talking about a lunatic here) if the bomber chose to place tumbling shot into the devices when BB's would work just as well and are much more common and less likely to hint at his identity (the list of people who know about/have reason to own tumblign shot being much smaller than the equivelent for BB's).
posted by Reggie Knoble at 9:03 AM on April 17, 2013


AwkwardPause: "Also, Trayvon Martin's family send message to Martin Richard's family. Something in my eye..."

That's absolutely heartbreaking— thank you for that link. Treyvor Martin looks a lot like my younger brother it gave me chills.

.
.
posted by yaymukund at 9:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Listening to a radio interview with Matt Light, a physically enormous former star player for the New England Patriots - he and his family were in a restaurant right next to one of the blasts, along with equally enormous former teammate Joe Andruzzi. The two were bodily carrying the wounded through the chaos to medical help... talk about the right guys in the right place at the right time...
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


raztaj: Pictures show bag or package outside security fences before and after blast.

If you look closely at those photos, you'll notice that the metal barricade, between the tree and the mailbox, is bent outward and wrapping around the mailbox. Whatever that plastic garbage bag and paper sack contraption is (water bottles, maybe?) is not exactly the point of detonation. Whatever it was, was behind the barricade, somewhat to the image-left of that sack (toward the tree), judging entirely from the debris radii. To my eye, the bomb would have been--using the "before" image--behind the barricade, maybe between the feet of the lady in sunglasses and black coat, and the man next to her in tan coat and jeans. (there's a seam between two barricade panels right where tan-coat-and-jeans is standing.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:09 AM on April 17, 2013


Also, Trayvon Martin's family send message to Martin Richard's family.

Oh, God, reading that link I just learned that the sign Martin Richard is holding in the iconic photo was made in response to a classroom lesson on Trayvon Martin's death and the issue of violence.

I don't even have words for what I'm thinking and feeling right now. It's all just so senseless.
posted by lord_wolf at 9:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


The New Yorker has this piece on the not-a-suspect Saudi national.

Now is a good time to remember the words of Justice Brandeis, "[I]t is immaterial that the intrusion was in aid of law enforcement. Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect personal liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficit. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438 (1928) (dissenting).
posted by murfed13 at 9:25 AM on April 17, 2013 [20 favorites]


murfed13, do you realize you are using the same decision that Timothy McVeigh used in his only statement before the court to justify his actions? Was that deliberate?
posted by msali at 9:28 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I certainly did not realize it. But just because it was co-opted by McVeigh doesn't mean that it lacks its original meaning. Courts continue to cite that dissent with regularity.
posted by murfed13 at 9:33 AM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


Also wouldn't it be strange...if the bomber chose to place tumbling shot into the devices when BB's would work just as well and are much more common....

If I ever turn into a mad bomber (I would hope that this would come into play before that) I'd be sure to source everything at WalMart and I'd buy it over the better part of a year and I'd pay with cash. and.... But in saying that, I'm thinking things through clearly and rationally, assuming I'm making a plan a year or more in advance and have a pretty good idea of how forensic science works.

My guess is that, if tumbling shot is in fact what was used, it was bought at the same gun store as the black powder, possibly at the same time.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:33 AM on April 17, 2013


SillyShepherd: The images in the bomb remains match the lid and bottom of my Fagor stovetop pressure cooker.

Yeah, given that they've been saying 6qt, it appears to be this one that I've got. The pressure release valve and handle appear to have been removed, a hex nut (and presumably rubber gasket) has been put in the release valve hole, and some square nuts have been put where the handle's screwed in. Not sure why the other hole looks black; there's normally a nut there that's part of the release valve.

So from this we can determine that whoever did this took Cook's Illustrated's advice on which brand of pressure cooker to use, but ignored their advice to get the 8qt one instead of the 6qt one.
posted by atbash at 9:34 AM on April 17, 2013


Also has a shot of the ball bearings and nails.

They're not ball bearings or tumbling shot. They're BBs. -- .177" diameter, or just shy of 3/16ths of an inch, which is *exactly* what size they are against the ruler.

And you can buy 2400 bbs for $4.97 at Walmart. Online, even.

If he did use bike chains, that's why we saw so many traumatic amputations. In the days of sail, chainshot was used for cutting rigging, but if it flew low, it cut down legs just as easily.
posted by eriko at 9:35 AM on April 17, 2013


Bottom of that pressure cooker, for reference.
posted by atbash at 9:38 AM on April 17, 2013


murfed13, do you realize you are using the same decision that Timothy McVeigh used in his only statement before the court to justify his actions? Was that deliberate?

Also, part of that dissent is inscribed on the walls of the Boston federal court house, which was dedicated in 2001.
posted by murfed13 at 9:39 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Also, Trayvon Martin's family send message to Martin Richard's family. Something in my eye..."

God, and that some racist assholes are already complaining there about Trayvon being a "thug." I wish there was a hell for them to burn in.
posted by klangklangston at 9:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Boston.com . . . . just now

There has been "substantial progress" made in the investigation into the Boston Marathon bombings, CNN reports. A law enforcement source has told the network's John King that there has been "significant developments in the case. No details
posted by dhacker at 9:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


If I ever turn into a mad bomber (I would hope that this would come into play before that) I'd be sure to source everything at WalMart and I'd buy it over the better part of a year and I'd pay with cash

About the only thing I've seen from this bomb that might not be purchasable at WalMart is the remote control, if that's what it is. If it's a cellphone, then *everything* I've seen is on the shelves there.

Yes, that includes the powder. I don't think they have black powder, but they have pyrodex and smokeless powder.

Thinking more about the bike chains. Those BBs and tiny nails would hurt, might even blind, but they'd be hard pressed to kill you. Those bike chains, though? They'd be horrific -- and whenever you're talking traumatic amputation, you're talking a good chance of death from blood loss.
posted by eriko at 9:42 AM on April 17, 2013


Getting warmer on the control electronics I think
posted by localroger at 9:45 AM on April 17, 2013


localroger someone mentioned above NYT is reporting standalone kitchen timers not radio...have you seen reporting to the contrary or just going on those PCBs in the crime scene photos?
posted by werkzeuger at 9:50 AM on April 17, 2013


I believe a 6L pressure cooker could fit into most reasonably sized backpacks, but carrying three separate bags with pressure cookers inside them sounds mildly distinctive. If each bag were carried separately, the alternating trips with and without bags might show up in photos. Reddit is crowd sourcing this discrepancy hunt on /r/findbostonbombers.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:53 AM on April 17, 2013


Those PCBs could be anything. Nothing about them screams RF to me.
posted by schmod at 9:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Getting warmer on the control electronics I think

Maybe you could (1) hold off on posting multiple pictures of circuit boards to this thread, and (2) when you find a (close) match, notify authorities.
posted by Mapes at 9:54 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I wonder if the bike chains were intentionally meant to amputate limbs? It seems like a poetically cruel thing to do at the end of a marathon.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:54 AM on April 17, 2013


Going on the PCB's. Those do not look like the guts of an egg timer to me. And this wouldn't be the first reported "fact" that turned out to be otherwise.

If I'm right then the bomber had to be almost in sight of the bombs, and will almost certainly be in dozens of pictures. They may be trying not to make that too public.
posted by localroger at 9:54 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


So are we discussing the ricin thing here? Let alone motives for *that?* Because it’s so reminiscent of the also-not-related but still horrible anthrax mailings following 9/11, which just pissed me off so much. And now Sen. Carl Levin’s *Saginaw, MI* office - an area I know very well - has received a suspicious envelope.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:56 AM on April 17, 2013


They may be trying not to make that too public.

FWIW, A friend of my family, who is also a former police officer in MA, has a theory that it's been so quiet because they have a suspect in mind and are trying not to "spook" him until they sweep in for the arrest - even to the point of there being some minor misdirection with the media to give the impression they are looking at an non-US source when really it's someone very local. Dunno if I agree, but it's an interesting theory.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


And this wouldn't be the first reported "fact" that turned out to be otherwise.

Is there any real evidence that the PCB in the picture was part of the bomb, and not some other piece of electronics that was caught in the explosion?

Again, these photos are completely contextless.
posted by muddgirl at 10:01 AM on April 17, 2013


#BREAKING Source tells #CNN video from department store may have helped authorities identify a suspect in the #BostonMarathon bombings. (headline only / tweet)
posted by BobbyVan at 10:02 AM on April 17, 2013


CNN is just guessing at how hashtags work.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [46 favorites]


CNN now reporting a "dark skinned, male individual" was caught on camera placing a package at the site of the explosion.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:08 AM on April 17, 2013


The New Yorker has this piece on the not-a-suspect Saudi national.
After the bombs went off, people were running in every direction—so was the young man. Many, like him, were hurt badly; many of them were saved by the unflinching kindness of strangers, who carried them or stopped the bleeding with their own hands and improvised tourniquets. “Exhausted runners who kept running to the nearest hospital to give blood,” President Obama said. “They helped one another, consoled one another,” Carmen Ortiz, the U.S. Attorney for Massachusetts, said. In the midst of that, according to a CBS News report, a bystander saw the young man running, badly hurt, rushed to him, and then “tackled” him, bringing him down. People thought he looked suspicious.
The bystander who tackled him should be charged with assault.
posted by homunculus at 10:09 AM on April 17, 2013 [29 favorites]


CNN is just guessing at how hashtags work.

Or gotten the latest news confused with the new Larry "The Cable Guy" promo.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 10:09 AM on April 17, 2013


Video of his face? Let's hope he's still in the country, the bastard. And, dear God, I hope the fact that they are releasing this info now means they have an idea of where he is. Otherwise, why say this? (unless it's a leak or something)
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:10 AM on April 17, 2013


Reddit users are saying there are large numbers of Boston PD Special Ops gathering at MIT.
posted by penduluum at 10:11 AM on April 17, 2013


"Investigators believe they have identified a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings, a source who has been briefed on the investigation told CNN's John King"

Once again it's 'a source who has been briefed'. Sources who have been briefed have been credited for a lot of later discounted information in the last couple of days.
posted by Dojie at 10:12 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Otherwise, why say this?

To flush out a suspect by making them panic?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:13 AM on April 17, 2013


I've got that same pressure cooker, too. Only, mine was found in a free box on the curb in my neighborhood in Cambridge last year. Don't think I'll hold my hopes out for any more free pressure cookers...
posted by msbrauer at 10:13 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


More Charles Pierce: We Are The Commonwealth Of Massachusetts
posted by homunculus at 10:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


To flush out a suspect by making them panic?

Yeah I dunno I don't think that's how it usually works.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:14 AM on April 17, 2013


muddgirl, those boards had to be part of the bomb. The explosion wasn't the type that would catastrophically remove a circuit board from an enclosure from a consumer device.

Also, going back to the high rez pics, it's clear the chunkier board is sitting on a relay. It's not in exactly the same position as the product I linked but it's probably a very similar product by another manufacturer. That board also has longish wires coming from it which are the type you would use to hook up a battery and high current controlled device; you don't see wires like that in consumer electronics. The small thin board is an extremely common form factor for 300-400 MHz RF receivers modules.

I have worked on a lot of electronic devices, both industrial and consumer, in the last 30 years. I would now bet a substantial sum of money that the bombs were triggered by a 315 or 433 MHz carrier presence modulated remote control module.
posted by localroger at 10:15 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Charlotte Observer has the story of this woman (photo from the Big Picture, warning very graphic), who was at the marathon with her sister to watch their mother run.

One of the things that is so unbearable about these stories is the massive hurt within families--including this one, the two brothers who each lost a leg, the Richard family. My heart aches for them all.
posted by torticat at 10:15 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston globe: Authorities have an image of a suspect carrying, and perhaps dropping, a black bag at the second bombing scene
posted by shothotbot at 10:16 AM on April 17, 2013


Reddit users are saying there are large numbers of Boston PD Special Ops gathering at MIT.

Reddit users are calling guys CLEARLY wearing State Police jackets "Boston PD Special Ops?" They are either illiterate or full of shit. (Or, y'know, both).
posted by dersins at 10:17 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Reddit users are calling guys CLEARLY wearing State Police jackets

See second from right, fourth from right, fifth from right, and others, all wearing BPD special ops jackets. But, for all I know, special ops does community outreach.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 10:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


dersins, in the thread he goes on to state there were 'special ops' patches on some shoulders
posted by Mach5 at 10:19 AM on April 17, 2013


Update on the Reddit thread suggests that they're there for a dignitary in a function room, or something.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 10:21 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reddit users are calling guys CLEARLY wearing State Police jackets "Boston PD Special Ops?" They are either illiterate or full of shit. (Or, y'know, both).

Dude. The ones on the white HDs are wearing hi-vis saying "Boston Police Special Operations." The one at the far left, and the only one not on a HD, is Cambridge PD. The three on blue HDs are Mass State Police.

They're clearly setting up as a escort.
posted by eriko at 10:22 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


muddgirl, those boards had to be part of the bomb.

I'm not saying you're wrong - you certainly have more experience than most people. I'm just saying that it is very, very easy to get sidetracked by photos presented out of context to the actual scene. It happens to seasoned investigators trying to investigate at a distance and can lead to nasty results.

from an enclosure from a consumer device.

It doesn't have to be a consumer device to be innocent. It could have been a student project, or a piece of home electronics. Again, I'm not claiming that it is - I'm saying that we're not on-site and we have no idea what pictures are relevant and what were just pulled out and leaked to the press by a random, uninformed cop.
posted by muddgirl at 10:22 AM on April 17, 2013


Yeah, false alarm. Sorry everybody; seemed well timed with all the "suspect IDed" stuff.
posted by penduluum at 10:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


And, why?

"UPDATE: Upon returning and being a nosy student, discovered that it looks like it's some kind of dignitary in the Vannevar Bush room in Bldg 10 instead. The cops are all in the back lobby of 10 eating a bag lunch, but there's a crap ton of guys in black suits, ear pieces, and weird lapel pins (triangles with E's, white shields with a metallic star in the center) hanging around and greeting each other. No flags. Some are near the Bush room within which there appears to be a fancy event, some are out back with the black SUVs and motorcycles."

Nothing to see here. Move along.
posted by eriko at 10:23 AM on April 17, 2013


So I just found out that the EMT in the photo[cropped] with Jeff Baumen and Carlos is a friend from highschool.

I was floored yesterday when I made that connection on facebook.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:23 AM on April 17, 2013


CNN's John King says his sources says they have a clear ID, including a facial image, of a suspect based on video.

In this context does ID mean "we can see a person who we could theoretically identify" or does it mean "we have a picture and we are sure it is Joe Smith"?
posted by dirtdirt at 10:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


there's a crap ton of guys in black suits, ear pieces, and weird lapel pins

Sounds like it could be the advance team for President Obama.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:24 AM on April 17, 2013


(triangles with E's, white shields with a metallic star in the center)

The Secret Service, and other protective agencies in suits, will wear a lapel pin as ID to other LE types. That pin changes daily. The fact that there are two indicates that there's two agencies involved, or at least two teams.

Last time I saw three agents up close, they were wearing bright red squares. I asked if the President needed a pizza that soon after moving away. They smiled, but obviously didn't confirm anything.
posted by eriko at 10:25 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


muddgirl, if you look at the picture of the control board (between the two cones) you can see that the connecting wires have been violently separated and singed. Given that the device was not HE, it had to be pretty much sitting on the bomb for that to happen.
posted by localroger at 10:28 AM on April 17, 2013


NBC's Pete Williams is pouring a bit of water on CNN's report: @PeteWilliamsNBC reports that authorities are looking into "a number of people" from cameras, but too soon to say if suspect or not
posted by BobbyVan at 10:30 AM on April 17, 2013


Boston globe full story: Image shows suspect carrying, perhaps dropping, black bag
(Er, the image is not in the story, in case that's not clear)
posted by shothotbot at 10:32 AM on April 17, 2013


Boston University graduate student Lingzu Lu has been identified by the school as the third person who died in Monday's bombings at the Boston Marathon.
posted by Dojie at 10:34 AM on April 17, 2013


Things are going really fast now. Here's the latest from Boston's ABC affiliate:

#BREAKING: According to @WuWCVB, an arrest in #BostonMarathon bombing is imminent or has already taken place.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:35 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Link to a donation fund for Jeff Bauman (bottom of article).
posted by Coatlicue at 10:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston as it is today was built by those coming here for a better life... immigrants and scholars both. This is one American experience I wish they didn't have to share.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:38 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


The story about the Saudi suspect is basically what I heard Monday: the Saudi man was running from the bomb site, and was tackled by some idiot. This created a situation where the FBI had to investigate him - now he was publicly labelled "suspicious". I personally believe that they thought all along that they were simply going through the motions, and that this dude had nothing to do with the attack, but they made as thorough job of it as they would with any person of interest.

I didn't post any of this then, since people were so strongly trying to discourage rumors and conjecture.
posted by thelonius at 10:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


According to Twitter, a suspect has been identified, a suspect has not yet been identified, and an arrest may have been made. Somebody has bad sources. And here's yet another one:

@AP: BREAKING: Law enforcement official: Arrest imminent in Boston Marathon bombing, suspect to be brought to court.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wow. From the Associated Press:

@AP: BREAKING: Law enforcement official: Arrest imminent in Boston Marathon bombing, suspect to be brought to court.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Suspect to be brought to court? Odd phrasing, that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:47 AM on April 17, 2013


#BREAKING @JohnKingCNN reports an arrest has been made in the #BostonMarathon bombings. #CNN [Hashtag warning]
posted by BobbyVan at 10:47 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Any news outlets on it and liveblogging? I want to keep up with this.
posted by corb at 10:49 AM on April 17, 2013


Holy shit, BobbyVan, can't believe I learned this news through "4 new comments, show," but I am so glad to hear it.
posted by torticat at 10:51 AM on April 17, 2013


Source: Authorities have image of suspect dropping black bag near Boston Marathon terror bombing scene; investigation seen ‘very close’
posted by jquinby at 10:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Lingzu Lu was named in this morning's paper as potentially the third victim - Chinese state TV was reporting it, talking to her father.
posted by maryr at 10:52 AM on April 17, 2013


ChurchHatesTucker -

The courthouse is where suspects are arraigned. Typically they'd be processed in a police precinct before appearing before a judge (fingerprints, photos, other paperwork), I'm not certain if the courthouse also does processing in Boston, but it wouldn't surprise me.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's already been hard enough to work and not be going crazy--now with this stuff about an arrest, I feel like I need to play hooky from my 2:00 conference call and just take a walk.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2013


In 48 hours? This follows the Richard Jewell/Stephen Hatfill/"random OKC Arabs" storylines pretty closely.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2013


AP: "Arrest imminent in marathon bombings"
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 10:54 AM on April 17, 2013


corb: “Any news outlets on it and liveblogging? I want to keep up with this.”

I'd probably just go here, to see the latest live-updated tweets on the #BostonMarathon hashtag.
posted by koeselitz at 10:55 AM on April 17, 2013


Hmm, NBC says no, these reports are false - there are people of interest but no arrests.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Guardian has a live update stream of the investigation.

Atlantic has an article about online "vigilantism:"
Hey Reddit, Enough Boston Bombing Vigilantism
posted by tykky at 10:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


Ah, that would make sense, Slap*Happy.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2013


Oh for fuck's sake. Some of us have to work, instead of repeatedly refreshing the internet.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


CNN on TV says they have both Federal and State law enforcement sources telling them that an arrest has been made.
posted by thelonius at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2013


And from CBS:
BOSTON (CBS) - A law enforcement official has told CBS News that an arrest has been made in the Boston Marathon bombings.

The person has been taken into custody by federal marshals and will be in court Wednesday afternoon.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:57 AM on April 17, 2013


BPD is saying they have a suspect, US Atty's office is saying they do not. Per Twitter, this person is officially Schrodinger's Suspect.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:57 AM on April 17, 2013 [24 favorites]


zombieflanders: “In 48 hours? This follows the Richard Jewell/Stephen Hatfill/'random OKC Arabs' storylines pretty closely.”

On one had, I agree that it's quick, and I will view this arrest with some skepticism no matter what.

However, on the other hand, in 1996 every single person on the street wasn't carrying a tiny video camera in their pocket that was connected to a worldwide network for sharing pictures and footage. I keep thinking about this – it seems very unlikely at this point that somebody wouldn't have pictures of whoever did this.
posted by koeselitz at 10:58 AM on April 17, 2013 [13 favorites]


Well I hope so. I have TV on in background so just relaying what I just heard. If they change the report, I'll post.
posted by madamjujujive at 10:58 AM on April 17, 2013


Jason Gelman ‏@jasongelman 49s
Conflicting reports over arrest in #BostonMarathon bombing. CNN says suspect in custody, US Attorney (via NBC) says no arrest has been made
posted by tilde at 10:59 AM on April 17, 2013


BPD is saying they have a suspect, US Atty's office is saying they do not.

Makes sense. The cops would know who they arrest before the lawyers.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Per Twitter, this person is officially Schrodinger's Suspect.

God help me, my first thought on reading that was "WHAT'S IN THE BOX?"
posted by eriko at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


In 48 hours? This follows the Richard Jewell/Stephen Hatfill/"random OKC Arabs" storylines pretty closely.

There is a big difference, though, between cases based on profiling and circumstantial evidence and one based on video of the actual planting of the bomb and explosion.
posted by torticat at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


They'll be in court Wednesday afternoon? Like, today, or as in, next week?
posted by corb at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013


I suppose both could be true: suspect in custody, not arrested yet.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


WSJ says they cannot independently confirm CNN's report.
posted by devinemissk at 11:01 AM on April 17, 2013


Some of us have to work, instead of repeatedly refreshing the internet.

I am secretly glad that my office has CNBC on in a continuous loop....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:01 AM on April 17, 2013


How are gold prices doing today, EmpressCallipygos? ;-)
posted by Jahaza at 11:02 AM on April 17, 2013


How are gold prices doing today, EmpressCallipygos? ;-)

Not a god-damn clue. I spend all day not knowing what anyone around me is talking about.

They're showing a whole bunch of guys in white hazmat-suit-looking things studying a sidewalk, what's that about?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:04 AM on April 17, 2013


I really hope they found the person who did this.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


They're showing a whole bunch of guys in white hazmat-suit-looking things studying a sidewalk, what's that about?

Pretty sure that they're still investigating the site and looking for further evidence; those are designed to limit site contamination. The Guardian's had a few pictures throughout the day.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:05 AM on April 17, 2013


CNN is really desperate to break news these days aren't they?

I mean after the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare you'd think they'd be cautious but I guess not.
posted by vuron at 11:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Arrest is made. Well done Boston!
posted by de at 11:06 AM on April 17, 2013


ABC news in LA reporting suspect in custody.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:06 AM on April 17, 2013


Boy, Matthew Yglesias sure had it right a little while back when he wrote about these being the "Glory Days of American Journalism," huh?

(Metaphorically, it's like we've refitted all our public drinking fountains with fire hoses instead of bubbler valves.)

So what's actually going on now? I'm really having a hard time sorting it all out.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:06 AM on April 17, 2013


koeselitz: "in 1996 every single person on the street wasn't carrying a tiny video camera in their pocket that was connected to a worldwide network for sharing pictures and footage."

Yeah, this is the upside of the panopticon, I guess.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Gold is up a bit ($9) in heavy trading
posted by shothotbot at 11:07 AM on April 17, 2013


Who is this Juliette Khayyam on CNN? Is she a "professional" journalist? She always seems to be looking away from the camera and making strange hand gestures. I kind of like her.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


> Boston University graduate student Lingzu Lu has been identified by the school as the third person who died in Monday's bombings at the Boston Marathon.

Lingzi Lu. With an i (also per the BU directory). Unfortunately the CNN typo is catching on.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:08 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


FWIW the AP is also on board with the arrest report.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:09 AM on April 17, 2013


I think the AP is the source of the arrest report.
posted by devinemissk at 11:10 AM on April 17, 2013


Regardless of whether or not NBC says an arrest has been made, you know something is going down when Brian Williams pops up on MSNBC at 2 in the afternoon.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:10 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


However, on the other hand, in 1996 every single person on the street wasn't carrying a tiny video camera in their pocket that was connected to a worldwide network for sharing pictures and footage.

We have met the panopticon and it is us.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 11:10 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


How soon can we realistically expect to know who this guy is, if the arrest has just been made?
posted by corb at 11:11 AM on April 17, 2013


CNN reported the arrest independently of the AP.
posted by stopgap at 11:11 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


NBC still not comfortable with stating an arrest is made. They say they know others are reporting differently but they are holding back. But they have a video from Lord & Taylor showing an individual dropping a black bag.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:11 AM on April 17, 2013


CNBC reporting suspect is "in custody."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:12 AM on April 17, 2013


I hope his name is not the same as mine, that's all.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:12 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


This is the AP story about it, I think, in case it hasn't been linked yet. "A suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings is about to be arrested, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation said Wednesday." Their source is anonymous.
posted by koeselitz at 11:12 AM on April 17, 2013


Gah, I'm going to go have lunch. Maybe this will be sorted by the time I'm done.
posted by ocherdraco at 11:12 AM on April 17, 2013


How soon can we realistically expect to know who this guy is, if the arrest has just been made?
posted by corb at 2:11 PM on April 17 [+] [!]

The cnn people seem to think 5pm but I am sure they are throwing everything at getting some sort of unofficial leak.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:12 AM on April 17, 2013


Per boston globe: Authorities planned to brief the media on the progress of the investigation at 5 p.m. today
posted by shothotbot at 11:13 AM on April 17, 2013


Twitter / Boston Police: Daily briefing has been scheduled by the FBI today @5pm @Westin Copley
posted by tykky at 11:13 AM on April 17, 2013


Who is this Juliette Khayyam on CNN?

Kennedy School prof.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:13 AM on April 17, 2013


CNN reported the arrest independently of the AP.

Gotcha. WSJ and Boston.com referenced the AP report, so I thought AP was the sole source.
posted by devinemissk at 11:13 AM on April 17, 2013


The cnn people seem to think 5pm but I am sure they are throwing everything at getting some sort of unofficial leak.

I think that's an already scheduled press conference? If they have in fact made an arrest, everything will be up in the air and that presser might not even happen.
posted by Jahaza at 11:13 AM on April 17, 2013


Whole lot of (not terribly informative but more than I see anywhere else) updates from WCVB - evidently huge security & media presence at the Federal Courthouse.
posted by Dojie at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013


Live local Fox TV aerial feed of federal courthouse. Awaiting suspect's arrival. Audio seems a bit dodgy.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013


Anatomy of a bombing: Photos show battery, wires used in device.

These photos are some of the best quality I've seen of the bomb components.
posted by ericb at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


It would seem that there would still have needed to have been a second person to plant the other bag, if they actually have footage of one guy planting one bag at the proper time. I'd think he wouldn't risk the first one being found prematurely to go down the street to plant the other one himself.
posted by Curious Artificer at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013


jamesonandwater, Juliette Kayyam is also a columnist for the Boston Globe. I don't think she's usually on tv. (I think that she and whoever supplied the headline and images for her column Monday wish that they had reconsidered. But who knew that this was going to be such a horrible day?)
posted by maudlin at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013


Folks let's not forget an arrest is not a guilty verdict. Police can and do mess up. This could very well be another Richard Jewell.
posted by PenDevil at 11:15 AM on April 17, 2013 [14 favorites]


Folks let's not forget an arrest is not a guilty verdict.

This is something people forget?
posted by IvoShandor at 11:16 AM on April 17, 2013


This is something people forget?

Yes, all the time, actually.
posted by muddgirl at 11:16 AM on April 17, 2013 [46 favorites]


It would seem that there would still have needed to have been a second person to plant the other bag, if they actually have footage of one guy planting one bag at the proper time.

That's what I was thinking.
posted by PHINC at 11:17 AM on April 17, 2013


NBC is really standing behind their sources. No suspect arrested; no suspect in custody, according to the FBI.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:17 AM on April 17, 2013


If they arrest Richard Jewell again, that would be so stupid.
posted by found missing at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2013 [48 favorites]


So CNN's Deborah Feyerick is suggesting it was the "sprinting guy in black rags" that appeared in a video and some photos upthread. They're showing those photos.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2013


David Boeri (WBUR super-journalist) saying his sources are indicating an arrest has happened.
posted by rollbiz at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2013


Al Jazeera's definite. Footage of guy positioning 2nd bomb provided identity. He's just been picked-up and is on way to court. Press conference due at 5 pm (Boston time, I guess).
posted by de at 11:18 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, all the time, actually.

Actively ignore I can see, I just don't think people forget this. "Innocent until proven guilty" is pretty much an American mantra. Hopefully they have the right person.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:19 AM on April 17, 2013


"Innocent until proven guilty" is pretty much an American mantra.

*snort*
posted by entropicamericana at 11:20 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


This is something people forget?

Quite often people view an arrest with the mindset that "s/he must have done something wrong if the cops have the handcuffs out." Perhaps it is less that they forget and more like they conveniently ignore in order to place blame.
posted by CancerMan at 11:20 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


So if the suspect is going to a Federal Courthouse, does this indicate the charges may included Terrorism (the Government Definition)? Honest Question, I'm no expert in these areas.
posted by Twain Device at 11:21 AM on April 17, 2013


Homeland Security at the front door of the federal courthouse
posted by Dojie at 11:21 AM on April 17, 2013


found missing: “If they arrest Richard Jewell again, that would be so stupid.”

Poor guy died in 2007, but even so I agree.
posted by koeselitz at 11:21 AM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


Actively ignore I can see, I just don't think people forget this.

I think you're taking it too literally. It's not like any time a defendant pops into people's heads, they evaluate the significance of the fact that they've been accused of a crime vis a vis their probability of actually having committed the crime.
posted by benbenson at 11:21 AM on April 17, 2013


So much confusion. Now CNN seems to be backing away from report that arrest has taken place.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:21 AM on April 17, 2013


@newsbreaker: CBS' Bob Orr: sources say bomber was on phone when he dropped second backpack. Cell records led to ID
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:22 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


How does law enforcement go about identifying someone definitively through grainy department store security camera footage? Does that facial recognition software they're always using on CSI-type shows actually exist?
posted by something something at 11:22 AM on April 17, 2013


@brendlewhat: Suspect Arrested in Boston Bombing Revealed to be Protean Creature Who Appears As Whatever You Fear the Most
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on April 17, 2013 [49 favorites]


"Innocent until proven guilty" is pretty much an American mantra.

You know unless you are a minority or god forbid some sort of muslim terrorist
posted by vuron at 11:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


So much confusion. Now CNN seems to be backing away from report that arrest has taken place.

Color me shocked that the same people who jumped the gun on Obamacare may have done so again.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's gonna be super embarrassing when NBC finds out that they're actually checking in with the Festival Internacional de Benicàssim.

"Suspect In Custody? Non, non, but we weel have Alice In Chains, oui?"
posted by cortex at 11:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


found missing: “If they arrest Richard Jewell again, that would be so stupid.”

Poor guy died in 2007, but even so I agree.

I just has a great idea for a Weekend at Bernie's style caper flick... (And by "great" I mean awful.)
posted by saulgoodman at 11:23 AM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


WBUR is saying that one of the surveillance cameras that picked up the arrested guy was at Lord and Taylor.

Man, yesterday I learned that I'll have to be nice back to Yankees fans the next time they are in town, and now I'll have to stop snorting at Lord and Taylor as I walk by. What's this city coming to?
posted by benito.strauss at 11:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


MSNBC is reporting that the FBI and DoJ will be releasing a statement refuting that a suspect is in custody.

Pete Williams: "Someone out there is right."
posted by Room 641-A at 11:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Innocent until proven guilty" is pretty much an American mantra.

Which is exactly why the phrase "lynch mob" has no literal or metaphoric meaning in the United States, yes.
posted by scody at 11:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


through grainy department store security camera footage?

Haven't looked at a relatively new security system recently, eh? Most of them are full-color HD nowadays with digital recording.
posted by localroger at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Lots of police units en route to the Moakley (Federal courthouse). Lots and lots. Sounds like some of that is to control a growing crowd, though.
posted by rollbiz at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2013


Boston Globe source reports the suspect is enroute to courthouse this afternoon.

I'm not a lawyer, but could this be a non-custodial, voluntary interview with a "person of interest"?
posted by BobbyVan at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2013


Does anyone have an alternative to the myfoxboston feed ? There's no audio.
posted by desjardins at 11:26 AM on April 17, 2013


less than 1m ago
FBI: 'no arrest'

A spokesman for the FBI at their national office in Washington DC confirmed to the Guardian's Matt Williams that "no arrests had been made" in the Boston case.

She refused to comment on reports of a suspect being identified.
posted by Dojie at 11:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Pete Williams: "Someone out there is right."

I'm not really sure about that; I think we should wait for the press conference to see what the authorities say. Could be nobody is right.
posted by koeselitz at 11:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Could be nobody is right.

Well now you're the one that's right, and then you just broke your own statement. Good job.
posted by komara at 11:27 AM on April 17, 2013 [23 favorites]


Haven't looked at a relatively new security system recently, eh? Most of them are full-color HD nowadays with digital recording.

Even so, how do they go from a picture of someone to identification in less than 2 days?

schoolgirl report answered my question in this case with the phone records bit, but I'm still curious if there is some vast database somewhere of pictures that can be matched to video footage.
posted by something something at 11:27 AM on April 17, 2013


NPR just stated, no arrests have been made.
posted by JohnR at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2013


For anyone wondering about the "dark-skinned male" quote from CNN's John King (referenced in BobbyVan's CBS link a while ago), here's a bit more on that.
posted by torticat at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2013


identifying someone definitively through grainy department store security camera footage?

Al Jazeera: Footage was discovered days back and "enhanced".
posted by de at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2013


Well now you're the one that's right, and then you just broke your own statement. Good job.

koeselitz slips away through a paradox field and becomes a time lord.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Wow, CNN has egg on its face again today.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013


I work 5 minutes away from the Federal Courthouse in Boston, seeing a lot of activity outside my office now. Helicopters, vans, people on rooftops, etc.
posted by mysticreferee at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013


"days back" ? This happened 48 hours ago.
posted by maryr at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


We need answers. Ben Affleck is wrapping up shooting the film version and needs an ending.
posted by perhapses at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


You're our "eyes on the scene" mysticreferee.
posted by maryr at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013


koeselitz: "found missing: “If they arrest Richard Jewell again, that would be so stupid.”

Poor guy died in 2007, but even so I agree."

That would actually make it even more stupid.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:29 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


CNN seems to have disappeared John King, after his excited blackberry-thumping confirmation of arrests. Their FBI correspondent says no arrest.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2013


The police and FBI, as I recall, tend to withhold statements about arrests until they're ready to tell everybody. So CNN may simply be reporting what the police aren't ready to confirm.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2013


I'm guessing they had cell records of people at that specific site -- they ID those people and try to find pictures of those people (not sure how that's possible -- if this is a foreign national, then perhaps Visa or Passport photo), then attempt to find a match to the picture of the person in the surveillance footage.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2013


OK, that's enough TV for today. I should have known better than to repeat the early CNN certitude here.
posted by thelonius at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013


if there is some vast database somewhere of pictures

Sounds like they might have noticed he was on the phone and traced all the cell phone records for that moment and cell back to their owners. Plain old police work.
posted by localroger at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013


We need answers. Ben Affleck is wrapping up shooting the film version and needs an ending.

Eh he can just stick in a car chasing an airplane down a runway.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


maryr: "days back" ? This happened 48 hours ago.

Suspect will be in custody, Department of PreCrime sources report.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


IivoShandor, you'd be amazed. In almost every other jury selection process I read, someone states they don't even believe in innocent until proven guilty.
posted by agregoli at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013


I hate when they say "dark skinned" or "darker skinned" as a rule anyway - darker compared to what?
posted by sweetkid at 11:31 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


CNN lady "it's not that we misunderstood, it's that there were misunderstandings". Nice try.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:32 AM on April 17, 2013 [16 favorites]


Mod note: Comment removed, there's an open CISPA thread if you want to talk about that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:32 AM on April 17, 2013


"it's not that we misunderstood, it's that there were misunderstandings".

The passive voice: the last refuge of scoundrels and shitty journalists.
posted by scody at 11:33 AM on April 17, 2013 [40 favorites]


As I said, I see a flurry of activity here. Is it possible they want the suspect fully arraigned at the courthouse before the media frenzy?
posted by mysticreferee at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2013


Which is exactly why the phrase "lynch mob" has no literal or metaphoric meaning in the United States, yes.

Oh Christ, yes, because something is a mantra it must clearly mean that I believe everything is peachy and works exactly how it's supposed to.

Please, tell us all how you've never heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".

The only point I had was that no one is going to forget that arrest doesn't mean convicted, especially not here.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2013


komara: "Well now you're the one that's right, and then you just broke your own statement. Good job."

He must be from Crete.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


In almost every other jury selection process I read, someone states they don't even believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Because they believe that, or because they believe that saying that will get them home sooner?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2013


"understandings were missed"
posted by Rock Steady at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2013 [17 favorites]


If I got any whiter I'd be transparent, so I'm happy to be one end of the scale there, sweetkid.
posted by Jilder at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN lady "it's not that we misunderstood, it's that there were misunderstandings". Nice try.
Jon Stewart, please pick up the white courtesy phone. Jon Stewart...
posted by tonycpsu at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


The only point I had was that no one is going to forget that arrest doesn't mean convicted, especially not here.

And the point many of us are making is that many people DO in fact forget this.
posted by scody at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


"days back" ? This happened 48 hours ago.

Footage picked up early and worked on, leading to clear ID.

But right now Al Jazeera is withdrawing confirmation that anyone is in custody; identity is confirmed and news conference in Boston at 5pm. (Clumsy hint of 2nd suspect.)
posted by de at 11:36 AM on April 17, 2013


mysticreferee - is the activity definitely official? It seems there could easily be a flurry of activity that's just news vans trying to get the good parking spot.
posted by maryr at 11:36 AM on April 17, 2013


BPD scanner making an announcement to all units that "to their knowledge, there has been no arrests" and that "all units are to remain on high alert".
posted by rollbiz at 11:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


And the point many of us are making is that many people DO in fact forget this.

I don't think they do. I think they are actively ignoring that in police/hero worship mode. So I disagree with the point "many" are trying to make. I think I should be able to do that here without you (or someone else) acting like I'm some kind of idiot.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:36 AM on April 17, 2013



Boston Police Dept. @Boston_Police
Despite reports to the contrary there has not been an arrest in the Marathon attack.
2 minutes ago

posted by Dojie at 11:37 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


@Boston_Police
Despite reports to the contrary there has not been an arrest in the Marathon attack.
posted by maryr at 11:37 AM on April 17, 2013


Many people do something like this:

This situation is DIFFERENT. Can't you SEE that they're obviously guilty? We're not on the jury so it doesn't matter if we judge them NOW.
posted by Green With You at 11:37 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


And the Boston Globe retracts:

Dramatic change in status of Boston Marathon bombing invstigation: Authorities are now saying:"No arrest and no one in custody.''
posted by BobbyVan at 11:37 AM on April 17, 2013


mysticreferee - is the activity definitely official? It seems there could easily be a flurry of activity that's just news vans trying to get the good parking spot.

There is definitely a large, and recently growing, police presence there.
posted by rollbiz at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2013


So if the suspect is going to a Federal Courthouse, does this indicate the charges may included Terrorism (the Government Definition)? Honest Question, I'm no expert in these areas.

Yes. If they take him or her to the federal courthouse, it likely means that they're charging him or her with a federal crime.

Federal terrorism charges are possible even if there was not a political motive as the bombings were carried out in the United States and a foreign national was killed (statute).
posted by Jahaza at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2013


Dramatic change in status of Boston Marathon bombing invstigation: Authorities are now saying:"No arrest and no one in custody.''

Heh. Someone just got Gitmo'd....
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


This suspect, no suspect thing is weird.
posted by nickyskye at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2013


IANYFP
posted by Jahaza at 11:39 AM on April 17, 2013


WBUR: "There has not been an arrest."

As a point of information, it's possible to have the police pick you up, handcuff you, and hold you all night handcuffed to a bench without actually arresting you.

/There is a fairly entertaining story behind me knowing this.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:39 AM on April 17, 2013 [21 favorites]


OK, I'm out. I can't take this roller coaster ride.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


BPD scanner making an announcement to all units that "to their knowledge, there has been no arrests" and that "all units are to remain on high alert".

So even the police on the ground are having to deal with trying to cut through the noise all the bad/misleading/confusing information buzzing around is creating now. Goes to my point about careless speech having real-world consequences.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


The fact that it's a lot of activity isn't the big news for me; it is that it's right next to the federal courthouse here in Boston. And also helicopters. Just saying. Not entirely sure what's happening of course, who am I to speculate? CNN?
posted by mysticreferee at 11:41 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


People will be very ready to believe in the guilt of any suspect who is revealed today, partly because it will be emotionally comforting to think the bomber is behind bars. I don't know whether saying an arrest isn't the same as a conviction is a useful way to convey the message, but it is worth remembering that the police can be mistaken, particularly when there is this much pressure to quickly arrest someone.
posted by Area Man at 11:41 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


I don't think they do. I think they are actively ignoring that in police/hero worship mode.

So your argument is not that people don't jump to conclusions about guilt based on an arrest alone, but rather that this occurs out of "actively ignoring" rather than "forgetting." Well... okay. I think the greater point still stands that the presumption of innocence that is attached to legal proceedings in the U.S. often has precious little to do with public sentiment and media coverage in the wake of an event such as this.
posted by scody at 11:41 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


quoted by ArtW: @brendlewhat: Suspect Arrested in Boston Bombing Revealed to be Protean Creature Who Appears As Whatever You Fear the Most

In a surprise twist, this turned out to be the most correct out of all the tweets about the arrest.
posted by koeselitz at 11:42 AM on April 17, 2013 [23 favorites]


Brian Williams pops up on MSNBC at 2 in the afternoon.

It's actually Pete Williams who has been on MSNBC.
posted by ericb at 11:42 AM on April 17, 2013


I like how news organizations write "Authorities are now saying [blah blah]," as though there were some official release that somehow changed itself despite never being issued.

By that I mean I do not like it.
posted by CancerMan at 11:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [10 favorites]


/There is a fairly entertaining story behind me knowing this.

I'm sure it's hilarious, but let's remember that that point of information can reflect the abuse of justice.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


benito.struass: I, for one, vote for the telling of that story, seeing as I'm endlessly refreshing this page waiting for news that doesn't want to arrive, and avoiding all work. Please, share!
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 11:43 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Whoa. I just woke up from a nap, I grab some coffee, read the headlines of the local news, and now you're telling me there is no suspect?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:43 AM on April 17, 2013


Some undoubtedly want off the jury, some seem adamant that criminals are the people who get arrested. I work in appeals, its a common attitude.
posted by agregoli at 11:43 AM on April 17, 2013


It's actually Pete Williams who has been on MSNBC.

Yes.

But also, Brian Williams was on for about five minutes around 2pm.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:44 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Heh. Someone just got Gitmo'd....

You joke, but it's possible the person is being secretly detained/interrogated as an enemy combatant. Here's some background. This scenario is unlikely, but it could explain the dramatically different accounts.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:44 AM on April 17, 2013


So long great thread, I can't deal with the play-by-play. I will listen to the news when I get home.
peace out.
posted by Theta States at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013


I dunno, I kinda suspect that an arrest has been made, but law enforcement wants to keep that under wraps (perhaps in the interest of going after a second suspect)? Both CNN and AP reported on news from their source(s?) with some specificity. Maybe CNN lady's expanation is not so much a weaselly apology as an admission that things were reported (by the source) that shouldn't have been.
posted by torticat at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013


Let me guess. It's Richard Jewell, isn't it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think the greater point still stands that the presumption of innocence that is attached to legal proceedings in the U.S. often has precious little to do with public sentiment and media coverage in the wake of an event such as this.

I simply think that people know that there's a presumption of innocence, but they don't care. Page views, ratings and speculative conversation are more important to them and that's fine, whatever. But "forgetting" makes something seem so . . . accidental. And I don't think it is at all. The assumption that "first responders" (whomever that encompasses) does nothing to help the perception.
posted by IvoShandor at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013


Or maybe CNN are a bunch of incompetent buffoons.
posted by Justinian at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


Maybe we should just agree to post a new thread for an official arrest? >_>

At this rate, there'd need to be several, each one followed up almost immediately by another post critical of the reliability of US news coverage.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:46 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


MSNBC is showing aerial video of the crowds gathering in front of the federal courthouse. One commenter said it demonstrates the anxiety of people ... And that it's likely they will be disappointed in not seeing a suspect taken there.
posted by ericb at 11:46 AM on April 17, 2013


Depending on how these events unfold (suspect/no suspect/errors in reporting/etc) I would be interested to see how wikipedia deals with this. It seems to be our record of date for events, and knowing leads/errors/false flags/ unfolded at at a given time is worth knowing from a cultural research stand point.
There is a Richard Jewel note I think only because it was such a large rush to judgement/verdict.
posted by fluffycreature at 11:46 AM on April 17, 2013


I don't think they do. I think they are actively ignoring that in police/hero worship mode. So I disagree with the point "many" are trying to make.

IvoShandor, I think that there's a degree of nuance here. I think rather than "actively ignore", it may be more of an "allow themselves to temporarily forget" situation. Or, rather, that people may accept the arrest itself as being the "proof" you need to "prove someone guilty".

"Innocent until proven guilty" also comes with the further clause "in a court of law," and I believe that that clause is the part that people forget all too often.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:47 AM on April 17, 2013


Or maybe CNN are a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Last night Erin Burnette had some security expert on to discuss the photo of the suspicious bag near the mailbox and Burnette asked, "Why is there even a mailbox there? Fair question, right?"
posted by Eyebeams at 11:48 AM on April 17, 2013 [14 favorites]


In my experience, news outlets cite anonymous sources who aren't cleared to speak about the subject in an official manner. It's used so often it's become like the small-print "not approved by the FDA" disclaimers on diet pills.

So it doesn't surprise me that news organizations would jump the gun on stuff like this. It could just be one cop or lawyer or someone who works for the authorities that has a connection to a reporter, that relays what they've heard.
posted by CancerMan at 11:49 AM on April 17, 2013


CBS News: JUST IN: Man sought as possible suspect is WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, gray hoodie and black jacket.

(Seriously CNN, WTF?!)
posted by BobbyVan at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2013


Or maybe CNN are a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

That's my take. If it were an ordinary news week, they'd be filling the time with entirely uncredible analysis from whatever talking head they could get in the studio. This week, it's about the right to say, "first," even if they have to retract afterward.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:51 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Geez. If these reports are all completely false, I want to see someone from CNN taken to the court house.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:51 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


(Seriously CNN, WTF?!)

Seriously, there might be two suspects here. One in custody (NOT under arrest yet!) and one still sought.
posted by torticat at 11:52 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


This suspect, no suspect thing is weird.

Very. The Boston journo informing Al Jazeera seemed really annoyed and reluctant to change his report.

He stuck to his guns that the scheduled 1pm press conference had been cancelled, and a 5pm conference has been set.
posted by de at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013


Great, now he will turn his cap forward. Way to go CNN.
posted by tykky at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [30 favorites]


WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards


This is literally every third person in Boston.
posted by dersins at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [54 favorites]


Do people not realize that their rabid desire for any news at all is the direct cause of inaccurate news getting pushed out without proper sourcing?
posted by smackfu at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]



Seriously, there might be two suspects here. One in custody (NOT under arrest yet!) and one still sought.

Or they went to talk to a person of interest and found that he's not involved in the bombing, but has got a warrant or some other such.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


JUST IN: Man sought as possible suspect is WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, gray hoodie and black jacket.

So there is some new form of "bro" terrorism now?
posted by rosswald at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I love how Drudge is reporting the suspected white male: with the exact same description, only leaving out the white male part.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:54 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Seriously, there might be two suspects here. One in custody (NOT under arrest yet!) and one still sought.

Then they'd still be incompetent for breaking the news prematurely and jeopardizing on ongoing investigation by credulously accepting information from unauthorized sources.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:54 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure that Peter King is the actual bomber and he's just throwing out red herrings at this point.

Either that or he's just really really bad at his job.
posted by vuron at 11:54 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


dersins: "WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards


This is literally every third person in Boston"

Aren't Red Sox hats typically red or black/dark blue?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:54 AM on April 17, 2013


There are a bunch of people sighing a big sigh of relief at "white male."
posted by desjardins at 11:54 AM on April 17, 2013


I never thought I'd say this, but 4chan has a very interesting set of analyses of crowd photos before and after here.

(I thought a bit about the privacy implications, but they haven't doxed anyone, it's just image analysis of publicly available photos, done in a pretty adult fashion...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 11:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Just saw a brilliant tweet from a local news channel regarding CNN's fubar. They've since deleted it, but it's nice to know there's someone there with a sense of snark.

"CNN just tripped and sprained an ankle while backpedaling from their own reports that an arrest had been made in Boston."
posted by CancerMan at 11:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


I nominate the "Protean creature" tweet (linked above) as the Tweet of the Year.
posted by Eyebeams at 11:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


There are a bunch of people sighing a big sigh of relief at "white male."

Not me. I have to live and work around a bunch of white males.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


CNN? I was going by AP which was claiming there will be a news briefing later today
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:55 AM on April 17, 2013


There are a bunch of people sighing a big sigh of relief at "white male."

Seriously. I haven't stepped out of my house in two days because I'm afraid of getting hate crimed.
posted by cozy at 11:56 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that Peter King is the actual bomber and he's just throwing out red herrings at this point.

John King! Peter King is really, really terrible at his job too, though.
posted by jamesonandwater at 11:56 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


EC: "Innocent until proven guilty" also comes with the further clause "in a court of law," and I believe that that clause is the part that people forget all too often.

True. In fact, I think we're often ethically obligated to treat reasonably grounded suspicion as grounds for judgement in some areas.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:57 AM on April 17, 2013


Sorry cozy. Didn't mean to make light of those real concerns. But I actually am a little nervous about the beliefs of my fellow white males sometimes.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:57 AM on April 17, 2013


Then they'd still be incompetent for breaking the news prematurely and jeopardizing on ongoing investigation by credulously accepting information from unauthorized sources.

An awful lot of journalism relies on 'unauthorized sources'. We'd be worse off if no one ever leaked anything. (Yes, I realise some leaks are orchestrated.) If someone leaks something that jeopardises an investigation, the source should probably be the one taking the blame--you can't insist the media never report anything that's been leaked if you any hope of them actually not simply reporting what the people in power want them to report.
posted by hoyland at 11:57 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston Globe source reports the suspect is enroute to courthouse this afternoon.

I'm not a lawyer, but could this be a non-custodial, voluntary interview with a "person of interest"?

Not likely. Suspects are not routinely questioned at courthouses. Although sometimes (in small towns, generally), state's attorney's offices or public defender offices are in the courthouse, police departments pretty much aren't. If a state's attorney need to come in for felony review or some other decision with regard to charging, she'll go to the police, not the other way around. Generally, the only people of interest to the police brought to courthouses are "defendants", not "arestees" or "suspects"--meaning they've already been arrested on suspicion of some particular charge.

And, sadly, as noted above, you can pretty much be held by the police for more then 24 hours without it counting as an arrest if some magic words are said or random conditions met, even if you yourself are under the impression you are under arrest. But that is another story.
posted by crush-onastick at 11:57 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yup, just went out to the courthouse, guys. HUGE crowd there. Lots of cops, TV vans everywhere, teeming with onlookers. Something is up.
posted by mysticreferee at 12:00 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Just to note, I wouldn't really characterize what all these news sites were saying as "retractions." They were reporting what law enforcement was SAYING, which is not the same as saying "what we reported earlier was false."

From CNN: "A federal law enforcement source told CNN's Fran Townsend that someone was arrested. But later, two senior administration officials and another federal official told Townsend that there had been a misunderstanding among officials and that no one has been arrested."

That is not CNN admitting they got it wrong. And it could well be that the "misunderstanding" among officials consisted of the source being told to shut the hell up.
posted by torticat at 12:00 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Question just came up on BPD scanner regarding a motorcade headed from MIT to the courthouse. It has not been responded to yet, at least on air.
posted by rollbiz at 12:01 PM on April 17, 2013


I'm fine with the media reporting based on leaks (for reasons outlined by hoyland), but I wish they'd slow down a bit, check with other sources (such as other leakers), and get a little more certainty before sending out a tweet.
posted by Area Man at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Yup, just went out to the courthouse, guys. HUGE crowd there. Lots of cops, TV vans everywhere, teeming with bystanders and onlookers. Something is up."

Just checked this thread, guys. 100s of comments in the last hour. Something is up.
posted by benbenson at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [25 favorites]


> That Atlantic piece about digital vigilantes is so get off my lawn that it's kind of funny. If the reddit kids want to put eyeballs to video and see what they can figure out...more power to them. Also, welcome to the future folks. It's fine to talk due process, but civilians pouring over video privately shot does not deprive one of this.

In fact it seems lately that one can't get justice without pressure from the internet.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


(For those who missed it in a fast-moving thread, that would correspond with reports of police and suits congregating at MIT)
posted by rollbiz at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2013


I'm fine with the media reporting based on leaks (for reasons outlined by hoyland), but I wish they'd slow down a bit, check with other sources (such as other leakers), and get a little more certainty before sending out a tweet.

Good point. The issue is not leaks, it's being rubbish at reporting.
posted by hoyland at 12:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


If anyone sees an official way to leave condolences for Lu Lingzi's family, will you post it for us? I feel extra bad that she was so far from home and her family will have to deal with a very foreign culture. I am sure the Chinese consulate and the BU foreign students office will take good care of them, but I just feel so very bad for her family being so far away.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2013 [16 favorites]


Unfortunately, with the 24-hour news cycle and the need to claim first-ies, news sites no longer try to verify with secondary sources or just a bit more digging. So I do consider them as retractions because sites like CNN decided to just spread rumor or unverified information and pass it off as fact.
posted by CancerMan at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2013


CNN is really desperate to break news these days aren't they?

I mean after the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare you'd think they'd be cautious but I guess not.

Why should they bother? No matter how badly they fuck up, there are never any negative repercussions for them. People just keep watching.
posted by homunculus at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


FBI Statement

Contrary to widespread reporting, no arrest has been made in connection with the Boston Marathon attack. Over the past day and a half, there have been a number of press reports based on information from unofficial sources that has been inaccurate. Since these stories often have unintended consequences, we ask the media, particularly at this early stage of the investigation, to exercise caution and attempt to verify information through appropriate official channels before reporting.
posted by Dojie at 12:04 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Hospital in Brookline (near Boston) is being evacuated.
posted by item at 12:02 PM on April 17 [1 favorite +] [!]

Cite please? (I live in Brookline, a neighbor works at a local hospital.)
posted by athenasbanquet at 12:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


"The official who spoke to The Associated Press did so on condition of anonymity and stood by the information even after it was disputed."
posted by BobbyVan at 12:06 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


They're being really quiet about that motorcade. All comms about it are being immediately moved to cell phones. That's not odd in and of itself, just noting.
posted by rollbiz at 12:06 PM on April 17, 2013


schmod: Odds are, pressure cooker sales are tracked more closely than gun sales in some states. Those slips of paper don't exist.
They in fact do exist—and exist only as slips of paper, because it's been against federal law since 1986 to computerize the records—at the National Tracing Center. Although, obviously, if Bubba sells his Glock to Dick-Bob there's no record of that at the NTC and that's perfectly leagal.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:06 PM on April 17, 2013


Heh. Someone just got Gitmo'd....

So they're going to be held without charges for the rest of their lives?
posted by homunculus at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Holy fuck, that 4chan photo-thread is intense.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


live feed federal courthouse building, interesting folks inside being evacuated, media everywhere.
posted by dhacker at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013


The liveblog at boston.com is reporting the Federal courthouse is being evacuated.
posted by annsunny at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013


Aren't Red Sox hats typically red or black/dark blue?

Yes ... but there is a broad range of style and color -- even pink.
posted by ericb at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Okay, serious question - I can understand the calls to the media to tone it down and dial it back, but even if you factor out the news media, we have also been hearing from nearby residents in here that there is some Shit Going Down at the Boston Courthouse anyway. So if there hasn't been an arrest, then what is the explanation for what people have seen?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013


I'm still curious if there is some vast database somewhere of pictures that can be matched to video footage
You mean a really really big book of faces
posted by fullerine at 12:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [20 favorites]


Crowds gathering because of false news reports?
posted by rosswald at 12:09 PM on April 17, 2013


The liveblog at boston.com is reporting the Federal courthouse is being evacuated.

A threat was called in to the U.S. Marshals office, apparently.
posted by rollbiz at 12:09 PM on April 17, 2013


Boston liveblog, take with a grain of salt: Brigham & Women's Hospital is also being evacuated, according to a witness
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:09 PM on April 17, 2013


Globe reports federal courthouse and Brigham & Women's Hospital are both being evacuated; twitter reports of "babies in cribs just pushed outside."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:10 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Code Red, evacuation of the federal courthouse. Reported via the WCVB livestream?
posted by Windigo at 12:10 PM on April 17, 2013


I feel extra bad that she was so far from home and her family will have to deal with a very foreign culture. I am sure the Chinese consulate and the BU foreign students office will take good care of them, but I just feel so very bad for her family being so far away.

I was actually thinking about her last night when I was falling asleep. It is such terrible luck to go to school in another country only to get blown up-- it must make her death immeasurably harder for her family to come to grips with. To be so far away. It's horrible.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:11 PM on April 17, 2013


"The Brigham & Women's incident is apparently unrelated; a driver who locked his keys inside the car was helped by a valet parking attendant noticed there were gas cans inside the car and alerted security."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


People just keep watching [CNN].
CNN market share declining.
posted by shothotbot at 12:11 PM on April 17, 2013


CBS News says that the ID was thanks to call logs: Source tells @CBSNews that possible suspect identified in Boston bombings through cell phone tower call logs

If true, localroger called it above.
posted by compartment at 12:12 PM on April 17, 2013


I think the reason CNN is so desperate to break news is because people actually haven't kept watching them.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:12 PM on April 17, 2013


To reiterate, something big happening at the Courthouse

http://boston.cbslocal.com/cbs-boston-live-stream/

Live stream with reporters BEING CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY . . . . could be just a bomb threat, it's cray zee
posted by dhacker at 12:13 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Lots of cops, TV vans everywhere, teeming with bystanders and onlookers. Something is up.

That something would be incredibly bad reporting - with a slower news cycle, this would have been worked out before the extra edition went to press, or Ron Burgundy sobered up enough to sit behind the anchor desk without slumping sidewise.

Breaking news of something like an arrest should only be believed from official sources, which it just so happens, all have twitter accounts and web sites. Everything else is rumor and hearsay in a vain attempt to "scoop" the story. (How can you scoop the FBI on their own announcement? You can't and in this case, with an ongoing investigation, you shouldn't even if you could.)
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:13 PM on April 17, 2013


There's a live video feed of outside the Boston courthouse which is the worst thing ever - it's just a shot of sidewalk and the camera bobbing around.
posted by GuyZero at 12:13 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


EC: I'm reminded of a scathing article on the JonBenet Ramsey case in Brill's Content years ago about how the tabloid press would troll the media by phoning in false leads, leading to a three-ring circus of local affiliates rushing to the address. This "new activity" was then breathlessly reported to keep the story fresh.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 12:14 PM on April 17, 2013


homunculus: Why should they bother? No matter how badly they fuck up, there are never any negative repercussions for them. People just keep watching.
I note for the record that CNN is the only domestic news outlet I've figured how to get a live stream for directly from their website. I tried to stream an NBC live feed for 10 minutes this afternoon before giving up and going to CNN. There are sketchy sites that claim to stream MSNBC, etc. but I ain't allowing Javascript from, e.g. livenewschat.tv. I'm even logged in through my cable provider, but no dice anywhere except CNN.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2013


There's a bomb sniffing dog outside the courthouse.
posted by desjardins at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, I just watched a dog peeing on a tree live, lol.
posted by annsunny at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [24 favorites]


The other night, whoever was typing the scroll at MSNBC couldn't even bother to do their own spellcheck.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2013


Red, evacuation of the federal courthouse. Reported via the WCVB livestream?

Watching it myself. Dogs sniffing the area. Police boats, Coast Guard boats and other security on the harbor side.
posted by ericb at 12:15 PM on April 17, 2013


I never thought I'd say this, but 4chan has a very interesting set of analyses of crowd photos before and after here.

it ain't a pretty community, but I'm increasingly glad 4chan exists. Seriously, that link's worth a view ... even if it ends up having been faked. It ends up being an indication as to just how skeptical we must now be of any photo evidence of anything.
posted by philip-random at 12:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Bomb threat was called in to the courthouse, that's why it was evacuated.
posted by desjardins at 12:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I may or may not demand that Vroomfondel may or may not demand that there may or may not be someone whose claim may or may not be correct
posted by Flunkie at 12:17 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


WBZ said someone made a bomb threat regarding the courthouse.
posted by ericb at 12:18 PM on April 17, 2013


annsunny: Well, I just watched a dog peeing on a tree live, lol.
I spotted "reporters" looking at their phones live on the air!
posted by ob1quixote at 12:18 PM on April 17, 2013


local cable news. NECN
posted by grimley at 12:18 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


desjardins: “Bomb threat was called in to the courthouse, that's why it was evacuated.”

That's very disconcerting, considered in the light of the weird "they're taking the suspect to the courthouse" rumor from earlier. If the foolish recklessness of AP and CNN turns out to cause or facilitate a riot or some other disaster at the courthouse or elsewhere – well...
posted by koeselitz at 12:18 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


via ABC: Sources tell @ABC they have a clear image of an individual who may prove to be a suspect. Suspect not yet identified and no arrest made.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:18 PM on April 17, 2013


Dogs love to have jobs, and some of the happiest dogs I've seen in person were bomb-sniffing dogs (I think with the US secret service) doing their thing. When searching they were VERY EXCITED THAT THEY MIGHT FIND THE THING AND GET THE TOY NOTHING WAS GONNA GET BY THEM! And when not searching, the dour-looking agent was standing being expressionless, while the dog was sitting all perky and wagging its tail just a bit.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:19 PM on April 17, 2013 [17 favorites]


The Boston Globe reported that officials have found an image of "a suspect carrying, and perhaps dropping, a black bag at the second bombing scene."

Wasn't this thread discussing the image of the guy carrying a heavy bag last night?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:20 PM on April 17, 2013


I wonder how the knowledge that they have a photo of the suspect will affect the suspects behavior.

Will he try and flee, commit another attack, suicide?
posted by rosswald at 12:22 PM on April 17, 2013


Whats the point of the 4chan thread again? it just looks like a bunch of people making arrows.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:23 PM on April 17, 2013 [10 favorites]


some of the happiest dogs I've seen in person were bomb-sniffing dogs

On Monday the DC metro had some bomb sniffing dogs out and one of them was really ecstatic about licking the floor. Not sure if that confirms your statement or not.
posted by troika at 12:24 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


obviously, someone must've dropped some very suspicious bacon grease that needed careful doggie inspection.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:26 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


one of them was really ecstatic about licking the floor.

Well, duh, can you imagine how much food is dropped and drink is spilled in the metro? The floor is like a doggie buffet.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:26 PM on April 17, 2013


...the dour-looking agent was standing being expressionless...

Five bucks says that maybe three seconds out of public sight, said agent was all WHO IS A GOOD BOY IS IT YOU IS IT YOU IT IS!
posted by griphus at 12:26 PM on April 17, 2013 [42 favorites]


No food or drink allowed on DC Metro. C'mon people.
posted by TurkishGolds at 12:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'm just glad we don't have bomb-sniffing cats.
posted by desjardins at 12:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Twitter: possible suspect?
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:28 PM on April 17, 2013


Never know when someone going to have an exploding pie TurkishGolds
posted by vuron at 12:28 PM on April 17, 2013


Meanwhile, more ricin, and not only in letters to Senator Wicker: Poison Feared in Letters to Obama and Lawmakers [NYT].
posted by Westringia F. at 12:28 PM on April 17, 2013


Sticky floors are way worse on the DC Metro because they actually do generally try to enforce the no food or drink rules, so you have the extra mystery of what it might be if it isn't food or drink on top of the normal mystery. Dog heaven, in other words.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm just glad we don't have bomb-sniffing cats.

You'd wake up in the morning and find the cat left half a bomb on the floor of the kitchen.
posted by eriko at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [40 favorites]


I'm just glad we don't have bomb-sniffing cats.

They did but they would pee in their handlers beds whenever they didn't find a bomb.
posted by shothotbot at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The problem I have with that 4chan arrow-drawing is that it starts by finding a person with a backpack in clear view, and then works from that. But the selection of who has a backpack in clear view out of the people overall who have backpacks is essentially random, based on the crowd position and the camera position and the timing.
posted by smackfu at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Twitter: possible suspect?

That's from the Reddit/4chan dissections linked up-thread.
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on April 17, 2013


Braking news: contradictory reports about suspension of bomb sniffing cat program.
posted by shothotbot at 12:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


I've been expecting a Photosynth to emerge, I'm kind of surprised there isn't one yet.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


UPDATE: The Onion apologizes for killing innocent Boston man
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


Speaking of ricin, if you want to make it, you can just check the FBI's website for a recipe.

griphus: I would certainly hope so. :)
posted by rmd1023 at 12:32 PM on April 17, 2013


Wasn't this thread discussing the image of the guy carrying a heavy bag last night?

That guy was one of dozens of people carrying black bags in the various photos that were posted.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:32 PM on April 17, 2013


contradictory reports about suspension of bomb sniffing cat program.

Cats only work between midnight and 4am. Get real.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:32 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Did anyone see the motorcade arrive at the courthouse? I am hearing it just got there but I wasn't watching the feed.
posted by rollbiz at 12:33 PM on April 17, 2013


The problem I have with that 4chan arrow-drawing is that it starts by finding a person with a backpack in clear view, and then works from that.

The reason I don't really have a problem with the 4chan arrow-drawing is because there's an infinitesimally small but non-zero chance their effort will lead to something worthwhile, which stands in stark contrast to what they'd normally be doing.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:33 PM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


Yeah, a couple of the "backpack seems to be missing" people have their shoulders jutted forward and their hands together at the crotch, which is a posture that only makes sense if you're doing something like holding a backpack by the little loop on top because you're trying not to bump it into everyone in the crowd.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:33 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I've been expecting a Photosynth to emerge, I'm kind of surprised there isn't one yet.

There is.
posted by ewagoner at 12:34 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Interesting, I'm surprised Google didn't know about that.
posted by feloniousmonk at 12:34 PM on April 17, 2013


smackfu: The problem I have with that 4chan arrow-drawing is that it starts by finding a person with a backpack in clear view, and then works from that. But the selection of who has a backpack in clear view out of the people overall who have backpacks is essentially random, based on the crowd position and the camera position and the timing.
Indeed. Not to mention that since a photo captures just a faction of a second, it could show the one fraction where the person wasn't looking at the race or was otherwise doing something that seems suspicious only when viewed as a still photo.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:34 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


WCVB is saying some judges have gone back into the courthouse ... And the security perimeter around the building has been expanded significantly.
posted by ericb at 12:35 PM on April 17, 2013


You needed the companion (initial) onion report too, Joakim Ziegler.
posted by gaspode at 12:35 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, more ricin, and not only in letters to Senator Wicker: Poison Feared in Letters to Obama and Lawmakers

Yeah this is a hot topic around here. Last time (the anthrax letters) the only people who died were postal workers. It also resulted in some expensive Anthrax detection equipment (which of course won't work on ricin) and new gloves issued and hours of boring training videos. So my husband the postal worker is not thrilled.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:36 PM on April 17, 2013


The reason I don't really have a problem with the 4chan arrow-drawing is because there's an infinitesimally small but non-zero chance their effort will lead to something worthwhile, which stands in stark contrast to what they'd normally be doing.

There's also a nonzero chance that someone will dox one of those guys and make their life a living hell, possibly while they're also struggling with the traumatic aftermath of a bombing.
posted by muddgirl at 12:36 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


...dox an innocent guy, I mean.
posted by muddgirl at 12:37 PM on April 17, 2013


I don't get - why mail ricin ? I thought you had to eat it for it to be lethal, and are senators or their staff well known for eating their mail ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


If the leaked report of an arrest and media briefing is a plot to get a crowd to gather at the courthouse for a followup bombing, we are living in a simulation.
posted by humanfont at 12:38 PM on April 17, 2013


Whats the point of the 4chan thread again? it just looks like a bunch of people making arrows.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:23 PM on April 17 [9 favorites +]

I'm glad y'all aren't working in the FBI analysis lab.

As I read it, a possible suspect is A. being identified, then B. someone taking a photo which might have a clearer angle on the suspect is identified (hence the arrows).

C. next step would be to find the person who took the photo, see what they've got that they may not know they have ...

I believe they call this police work. No guarantee they're on the right track, but it needs to be explored, one more end to be ruled "dead", or perhaps not.
posted by philip-random at 12:39 PM on April 17, 2013


Now WCVB is saying that according to multiple sources an arrest is imminent.

This is becoming such a see-saw.
posted by ericb at 12:39 PM on April 17, 2013


Yeah, I am not convinced the Internet crime solving going here is all that much more than interactive rubbernecking, with the possible unintended downside of creating a lot of noise (see also: the media, in particular the 24 hour speculative kind).
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


The media in this country is a joke.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'll be pissed if /b/ posts information on anyone. Internet vigilantes might get their man, but they probably won't get the man.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:41 PM on April 17, 2013


I'm the sort of person who might check out such an event, not because I was interested in watching people run by, but because I'm more interested in the people watching the runners. I'd probably be looking at everything but the runners. And I have a black backpack.
posted by perhapses at 12:41 PM on April 17, 2013


A great gawker headline: Marathon Bombing Suspect Has Been Arrested and Is In Custody But Has Not Been Arrested and May Not Exist
posted by Area Man at 12:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


I believe they call this police work.

Exactly.
posted by muddgirl at 12:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I don't get - why mail ricin ? I thought you had to eat it for it to be lethal

Actually, eating ricin is one of the least effective ways for it to kill. Inhalation is also a method by which one might be exposed to ricin.

It also resulted in some expensive Anthrax detection equipment (which of course won't work on ricin) and new gloves issued and hours of boring training videos. So my husband the postal worker is not thrilled.

If they haven't implemented any of this for ricin yet, it's not likely they will.

Incidents involving ricin
posted by IvoShandor at 12:42 PM on April 17, 2013


> I don't get - why mail ricin? I thought you had to eat it for it to be lethal, and are senators or their staff well known for eating their mail?

Consider how many times people unthinkingly hold things in their mouths when their hands are full, or lick their fingers while reading to turn a page....
posted by Westringia F. at 12:42 PM on April 17, 2013


ABC News ‏@ABC 1m
#Breaking: The Boston Police Department has given an all-clear at the Federal courthouse http://abcn.ws/17GoUZa per @AaronKatersky
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:42 PM on April 17, 2013


philp-random,

policework tends to be performed by police and, ya know, people in those fields with training and knowledge.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:42 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I've been looking at the photo series from Cryptome the mediareport posted the links to, and am wondering if anyone else noticed the slightly balding guy in dark hiking boots sitting to the right, apparently under the small glass overhang, in this picture and others subsequent to it? He's appears to be just sort of chilling there amongst the chaos, head turned to look at the commotion, legs crossed at the ankles. There are other better pictures of him sitting there in the next several minutes and then he's gone. Is he . . . injured? in shock? drunk? His posture just seems so odd to me.
posted by miss patrish at 12:44 PM on April 17, 2013


@charltonbrooker: CNN just confirmed Thatcher's made a full recovery.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 12:44 PM on April 17, 2013 [43 favorites]


The livestream seems to be a bit behind the ABCNews Twitter feed then.....
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 12:45 PM on April 17, 2013


The 4chan analysis of this photo is puzzling. How can sight-line trajectories be determined from a single, 2-d image? Half of those people appear to be looking toward the camera, not the ground level of the race. And, while the circled guy does appear to be looking away, so is the uncircled male in the bottom left of the image.
posted by audi alteram partem at 12:45 PM on April 17, 2013


and are senators or their staff well known for eating their mail ?

Well...Jim Inhofe...*makes sort of hand-wavey gesture*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:46 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


Guys, maybe it would be awesome if we didn't speculate on people's motives from still pictures.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


The problem I have with the 4chan photo link, aside from the fact that being "brown" is a reason to point someone out, is that one of the photos of the guy they have so cleverly drawn circles around is after the explosions (he and his friend are standing in the street and people are running around and it's smokey), and they both still have their obviously not empty bags.
posted by Orb at 12:47 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Yeah, I am not convinced the Internet crime solving going here is all that much more than interactive rubbernecking

There's also the fact it's been tried before. In 2001, the Cloudmakers ARG group tried to solve 9-11. Of course, we all know from our history that they were the first ones to identify the hi-jackers and that Osama Bin Laden were behind the attacks.
posted by FJT at 12:47 PM on April 17, 2013


I don't get - why mail ricin ? I thought you had to eat it for it to be lethal, and are senators or their staff well known for eating their mail ?

They're known for eating their words.
posted by maryr at 12:49 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Relive It (CNN’s 90 Minutes of Awesome)
posted by zombieflanders at 12:49 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just don't understand what sort of gripe the terrorists have with postal workers and legislative interns...
posted by schmod at 12:50 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


More (including a bit about the how letters to the White House are screened), from the WaPo: Letter to Obama containing suspicious substance intercepted by Secret Service.
posted by Westringia F. at 12:52 PM on April 17, 2013


rmd1023: "Speaking of ricin, if you want to make it, you can just check the FBI's website for a recipe."

Some links, you look at 'em and think, "Definitely shouldn't click that one."

The ensuing phone call might be awkward:

"This is Mike from IT. The NYPD would like to know why you're looking up ricin recipes online."
posted by zarq at 12:52 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


philp-random,

policework tends to be performed by police and, ya know, people in those fields with training and knowledge.

and/or in a situation where you've got a massive amount of evidence, possible suspects etc to filter through, you resort to some crowdsourcing, see if any possible leads pop up that way.

The caveat to this is, what if the "evidence" itself has been faked? So easy to do. I'm sure someone's already hard at work with PhotoShop, putting Obama on the scene with one of those old-fashioned dynamite plunger devices, smiling malevolently.
posted by philip-random at 12:53 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Babies in Cribs: "In regards to babies in cribs during evacuation, told they're from courthouse day care. Were among first out door. Props to their providers." -- Billy Baker, Boston Globe
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:54 PM on April 17, 2013


How can sight-line trajectories be determined from a single, 2-d image?

Also, in a marathon, there is a continual stream of runners going from left to right, and by time this picture is taken a couple thousand of those runners have already gone by. How can you say anyone is not paying attention when there should be close to 180° of event in front of them. Also, the guys posture suggests to be he's holding his pack by a loop (which I mentioned earlier).
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:54 PM on April 17, 2013


Practically speaking, the actual police did pretty much what you would expect for detective work: find all the CCTVs in the area, get the footage, watch it, get a description of the suspect, then look for other sources that provide more info, like spectators wide-angle SLR crowd shots. Not having the CCTV severely handicaps any amateur sleuths.
posted by smackfu at 12:57 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I just remembered there's rice pudding in the fridge.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:57 PM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


I just don't understand what sort of gripe the terrorists have with postal workers and legislative interns...

I worked in a Congressman's home-district office after the first round of poisoned mail. The House website specifically advised constituents to mail stuff to the local offices because all mail to Capitol Hill offices would be greatly delayed by the screening process. In other words, "Bad guys, aim over there."
posted by the christopher hundreds at 12:58 PM on April 17, 2013


WCVB is saying that they are being prohibited ("lock downed") from moving their helicopter which is filming over the courthouse.

WCVB is showing video they shot at the height of the evacuation. It shows a van with an armed security guard on the outside running board. The van speeds up the side street, quickly turns around and zips backwards into the side of the courthouse.
posted by ericb at 12:58 PM on April 17, 2013


...a couple of the "backpack seems to be missing" people have their shoulders jutted forward and their hands together at the crotch, which is a posture that only makes sense if you're doing something like...

urinating.

On our Freedom.
posted by Floydd at 1:00 PM on April 17, 2013 [15 favorites]


Reports that US Marshalls' Office has officially said it was a called-in threat ... and they are still sweeping the building's interior.
posted by ericb at 1:00 PM on April 17, 2013


(Side note: I park my car in that lot they're all standing in, across from the courthouse, on a pretty regular basis. I am REALLY glad I'm not parked there today)
posted by rollbiz at 1:01 PM on April 17, 2013


Not having the CCTV severely handicaps any amateur sleuths.

Plus, I have to imagine there are several thousand other photos that got turned into the cops and aren't available on the internets. Well, yet, anyway.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:01 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


An anonymous source says that the phone call of the threat originated from the offices of CNN.
posted by perhapses at 1:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [26 favorites]


ericb: WCVB is saying that they are being prohibited ("lock downed")

Welp, that about wraps it up for the English language, don't you think? It's been a good run, but sounds like time to shut it down. Or maybe downshut it.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:03 PM on April 17, 2013 [28 favorites]


Sorry, Rock, I don't understand a word of what you just said.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:04 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's a shame that shut is an irregular verb, or you could make the shutted down vs. shut downed joke.
posted by cortex at 1:04 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


@charltonbrooker: CNN just confirmed Thatcher's made a full recovery.

Yeah, I don't think my earlier post went through, but #CNNReports parodies were trending earlier.

The Atlantic calls Reddit vigilantes.
posted by NorthernLite at 1:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I just shutted down my pants.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


POINTLESS CONJECTURE: They find the suspect they're looking for, get him in custody, and word gets out. Then, in conversation with suspect, they realize there is another suspect. They call off the media reports of an arrest/suspect in custody until they are able to find/secure the second suspect.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


A little over 24 hours and the thread is peppered with jokes. Sometimes it is a bit jarring to be reading about kids dying and terrorist threats and bump into a one liner.

I understand that different folks handle things in different ways, but, perhaps "too soon" is appropriate here.
posted by HuronBob at 1:06 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


"CNN just confirmed Thatcher's made a full recovery."

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:08 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Well, to be fair, no one here is joking about the event itself so much as the tragicomic coverage of its aftermath. I think everyone agrees there's nothing funny about what just happened.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:10 PM on April 17, 2013 [29 favorites]


Tonight's Bruins game will take place at The Garden, but people are being told to get there early, as security will be tight and a long process.
posted by ericb at 1:10 PM on April 17, 2013


HuronBob, I don't see anyone joking about the attack itself, which would be abhorrent, but rather about the sensational coverage of the investigation.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


How can you say anyone is not paying attention when there should be close to 180° of event in front of them.

It looks to me like he's watching the texting of the person in front of him, actually.
posted by stebulus at 1:11 PM on April 17, 2013


@DonnyFerguson: CNN anchors concerned arrest will harm suspect's promising football future.
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on April 17, 2013 [32 favorites]


Anyway, no one needs to make jokes about CNN's coverage, they're managing just fine on their own.
posted by Jilder at 1:14 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I feel like we're all living in a Don DeLillo novel today.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [16 favorites]


Not really sure why AP is getting a pass, they got it just as wrong as CNN.
posted by enn at 1:18 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Not really sure why AP is getting a pass, they got it just as wrong as CNN.

Because until relatively recently they weren't considered a news source by reasonable people - just a service to pass news from one news source to another.

Suddenly a few years ago the AP newswire and Reuters feed service randomly transitioned from being the tertiary source to a primary sources for things, at the same time formerly secondary sources such as newspapers and CNN started being treated as primary sources.

It's all weird.
posted by atbash at 1:21 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


HuronBob, I don't see anyone joking about the attack itself, which would be abhorrent, but rather about the sensational coverage of the investigation.

Well, there was Stephen Colbert who IMO pulled off a brilliant example of how you can joke with rather than at a subject.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 1:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Boston Globe: Officials cancel promised 5 p.m. briefing on the Boston Marathon citing 'today's events at Moakley Courthouse' where bomb scare led to evac.

This is unfortunate. A public briefing would be really welcome given all the chaos of the last few hours.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Amazon has suddenly decided that I need to see ads for Fagor pressure cookers.
posted by localroger at 1:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [21 favorites]


CNN Makes U-Turn On Bombing Arrest—Talking Points Memo TV
posted by ob1quixote at 1:29 PM on April 17, 2013


That was fast: GIVE IT ARREST, "A guide to the clusterf$&k of misinformation during Wednesday afternoon's Boston Marathon bombings coverage."
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 1:32 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Anyway, no one needs to make jokes about CNN's coverage, they're managing just fine on their own.

"Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping."

And say what you will, the quality of journalism provided by our "watchdogs of democracy" has been is the second scariest thing I've seen in the news all week, made all the more frightening by the fact that it was not perpetrated by a lone nut or fringe group and rather than hunting these people down for their irresponsible acts the authorities will continue inviting them to press conferences.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:34 PM on April 17, 2013



Twitter: possible suspect?

For a moment there I was hoping twitter would be incarcerated.
posted by srboisvert at 1:35 PM on April 17, 2013 [12 favorites]


That's fair, CBrach. If a joke is crass, it's the crassness that matters, and in this thread, when I made that comment, I hadn't seen any crass jokes about the bombing.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:35 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


An essay Matt Damon wrote about the Boston Marathon last month (March 13, 2013) has taken on a new poignancy since Monday's attack.
posted by ericb at 1:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Mod note: If you want to argue mefi policy with a moderator, do it in the Metatalk thread you've already been in.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:39 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's possible the marathon press update got cancelled because Obama is going to speak at 5:30 about the Senate gun vote disaster.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on April 17, 2013


In almost every other jury selection process I read, someone states they don't even believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Attorney General of the United States Edwin Meese III, for example:

"...the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect."
posted by dhartung at 1:58 PM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


Jeff Bauman is the man in the photograph that has become an icon of the Boston Marathon attack, the one showing a bloodied, distraught young man, holding his left thigh, being wheeled away by a man in a cowboy hat. If the world could not identify him immediately, Mr. Bauman’s father — also named Jeff Bauman — certainly could.
posted by merelyglib at 2:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"...the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect."

Or more poetically:

Strawberry Alice: You just kicked the shit out of an innocent man.

Little Bill Daggett: Innocent? Innocent of what?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"...the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect."

I thought this might have been in the context of an argument for the "guilty/not guilty" terms used in US courts, as opposed to "guilty/innocent," but apparently not.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:05 PM on April 17, 2013


AwkwardPause: "Oh, meant to also include Colbert's intro from last night, "

That was really fantastic, thanks.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:06 PM on April 17, 2013


being wheeled away by a man in a cowboy hat

I've been singing the praises of Carlos Arredondo far and wide, but this phrase bothered me. He is not wheeling Jeff Bauman away. An unnamed woman is. She should not be invisible.
posted by ewagoner at 2:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [16 favorites]


Guardian's US reporter: "FBI says 'need more time to prepare' before face the media. Have to wonder what they're preparing"
posted by BobbyVan at 2:07 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Matthew Keys (Reuters): Just in: Law enforcement source tells me person -- possible suspect -- being interviewed right now by authorities.
posted by BobbyVan at 2:10 PM on April 17, 2013


^ I should note Keys has been suspended by Reuters. Mods can delete my comment above pending further verification.
posted by BobbyVan at 2:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah unless a named source or an official comes forward I'm not buying any sources on this stuff.

Twitter based journalism is so bad.
posted by vuron at 2:12 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Attorney General of the United States Edwin Meese III, for example:

All mentions of Meese trigger the this cartoon in my brain.
posted by emjaybee at 2:12 PM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


Based on what I just hard on NPR it seems they have identified a suspect that left a black nylon bag at the scene of the explosion, but they need more than that to make an arrest.
posted by Golden Eternity at 2:13 PM on April 17, 2013


Guardian's US reporter: "FBI says 'need more time to prepare' before face the media. Have to wonder what they're preparing"

"Alex Jones was right!"
posted by Drinky Die at 2:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Given the immense amount of "police have arrested someone...no, wait, the police haven't" updates from the media, could we perhaps exercise some self restraint and not just follow in their exact footsteps with, "XYZ reports that police have arrested some...no, wait, XYZ now reports that the police haven't" updates?
posted by Bugbread at 2:24 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Guardian's US reporter: "FBI says 'need more time to prepare' before face the media. Have to wonder what they're preparing"

Perhaps they're preparing to face a torrent of ill-founded speculation.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:25 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Yeah unless a named source or an official comes forward I'm not buying any sources on this stuff.

It used to be very, very rare for news outlets to run stories where sources refused to be named - especially if what they were divulging was a major break in the story. Especially with no confirmation from other sources. There are too many risks to that - as we're seeing, abundantly.

That's all vanished in the time of corporate news businesses who really, really just need you to keep tuning in, or they won't hit their numbers for the quarter.

I look forward to this week's On The Media and CJR.
posted by Miko at 2:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Another contaminated letter has shown up which officials don't think is related to the ricin letters. 11 injured, 65 quarantined in Beloit after handling envelope
Sixty-five people were all quarantined, but as of 4 p.m. Thursday, 15 of those people have been "decontaminated."

"Of the fifteen, seven people were transported to Beloit Memorial Hospital and eight were transported Mercy Hospital for additional evaluation," Jacobson said. "This number includes two emergency responders, a three year old child, and two women who are pregnant. Some of the fifteen were transported as a precautionary measure and may not have had direct contact with the substance."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just wanted to say thanks for being here, Metafilter. You're smarter than any news crew and way more comforting when the world has gone to shit. I don't know how people who watch network TV for news handled today but at work, refreshing Metafilter, it was all good.
posted by toastedbeagle at 2:37 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


I think CNN should have closed up shop the last several times they got scooped by @DRUNKHULK. Now that @DRUNKHULK didn't falsely report an arrest he beats them on credibility again!

Seriously, it's a strange world when I get my accurate news from a drunk comic book character and CNN efts it up.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


Is there a video of CNN's greatest hits in regard to false reporting? It would have to include the Boston bomb arrest, the Supreme Court Overturns Obamacare report, and the Gabbie Giffords Is Dead fiasco at the very least. I'm sure there must be more.
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2013


That's in my area, SLoG (my sister-in-law used to work at that facility, actually) and the letter was said to have been hand-delivered. If this isn't mass hysteria, which I'm not discounting (there was a lot of that in the wake of the anthrax attacks), I don't think it's likely to be ricin.
posted by dhartung at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2013


HULK NOT CONSTANTLY TALKING JUST TO FILL AIRTIME!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


>DRUNK HULK ‏@DRUNKHULK 6h
>APPLICANTS WANTED FOR ONE WAY TICKET TO MARS! KARDASHIANS! TIME TO MAKE DRUNK HULK PROUD!

Thank you so much for introducing me to this.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


CNN seems to be pretty much a tabloid now. Their breaking news graphic looks like something in a supermarket checkout lane.
posted by feloniousmonk at 2:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


At what point do the contaminated letters go in a separate thread? I appreciate being able to read about them here (in a weird, "this week in terrorism" kind of way, I guess), but aren't they separate incidents? A good post about the history of mail scares looping in these recent incidents would not be terrible thing.
posted by troika at 2:42 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jesus. Some of the commentary on that "need more time to prepare" tweet.... Have these people just come here from a world where "hoisted by his own petard" was not an expression?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:42 PM on April 17, 2013


"hoisted by his own petard" was not an expression?

Uh oh...
posted by Trochanter at 2:46 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


The average pressure-cooker-based IED is going to have precious little effect on the average battlement.
posted by dhartung at 2:50 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sixty-five people were all quarantined, but as of 4 p.m. Thursday, 15 of those people have been "decontaminated."

Proof reader/editor needed in aisle 1. Today is Wednesday!
posted by ericb at 2:52 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Great day for journalism!
posted by ericb at 2:55 PM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


I haven't had time to be online at all today and I have zero time right now to read the 639 comments I've missed, I just want to update and say my husband is back from the West Coast and I'm headed back into Boston tonight.

A sincere thanks for everyone in thread and via MeMail who has helped me with logistics. I am so anxious to get back home to my city that I have so much newfound love and appreciation for. Hopefully driving in to Back Bay will be alright, we shall soon find out!
posted by sonika at 3:06 PM on April 17, 2013 [13 favorites]


The real exploding pressure cooker is apparently CNN's fact-checking staff.
posted by GuyZero at 3:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Given the immense amount of "police have arrested someone...no, wait, the police haven't" updates from the media, could we perhaps exercise some self restraint and not just follow in their exact footsteps with, "XYZ reports that police have arrested some...no, wait, XYZ now reports that the police haven't" updates?
I disagree. It should be highly obvious at this point that any such reports should be taken with a grain of salt, but simply getting a record of what major news organizations are misreporting what is in and of itself something of interest here.
posted by Flunkie at 3:18 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


CNN: The network that cried Wolf Blitzer.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [39 favorites]


troika: “At what point do the contaminated letters go in a separate thread? I appreciate being able to read about them here (in a weird, 'this week in terrorism' kind of way, I guess), but aren't they separate incidents? A good post about the history of mail scares looping in these recent incidents would not be terrible thing.”

Er – why exactly are you assuming they're separate incidents? I think we're talking about them here because of the possibility that they're connected.
posted by koeselitz at 3:27 PM on April 17, 2013


Elizabeth Warren Speech On Boston Marathon Bombings: 'We Will Not Be Broken'
posted by Room 641-A at 3:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


After the Marathon: We Contain Multitudes (Holly LeCraw at The Millions): But even if it’s a larger conspiracy—even if it was some vast international network—it is dwarfed by what I saw on Monday, on Commonwealth Avenue, at the top of just one of the many hills (there are always more, there is always one more): the runners coming, coming, not stopping. Thousands. Thousands. Thousands.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 3:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Flunkie: "I disagree. It should be highly obvious at this point that any such reports should be taken with a grain of salt, but simply getting a record of what major news organizations are misreporting what is in and of itself something of interest here."

Sorry, perhaps I expressed myself poorly. I meant we should avoid this:
MeFite A: CNN reports a suspect has been arrested!
because we know it will almost certainly be followed by:
MeFite B: CNN reports that no suspect has been arrested!
...and not that we should avoid this:
MeFite A: At 10:00 CNN reported a suspect had been arrested. Then at 10:15 they said no suspect had been arrested"
In other words, reporting on misreporting is great, but just non-critically repeating reports as-is, knowing that, given what we've seen, they're probably wrong, is just committing the same folly.
posted by Bugbread at 3:34 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN: {Insert joke here.}
posted by Skygazer at 3:41 PM on April 17, 2013


Bugbread: “In other words, reporting on misreporting is great, but just non-critically repeating reports as-is, knowing that, given what we've seen, they're probably wrong, is just committing the same folly.”

What you're asking us to do, really, is to wait until all reports are in and then summarize all of them at once – which seems more than a little impractical.

More to the point, I think we are reporting on misreporting, and maintaining a critical eye. Noncritical repeating of reports wouldn't state the source objectively. But we're just reporting what the media has said; I think that's a fair way to proceed here.
posted by koeselitz at 3:42 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


(I mean, I would totally agree if this thread were filled with people going "omigod guise they just arrested the guy who did it!" – but thankfully it's not.)
posted by koeselitz at 3:54 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN: {CNN}
posted by Tsuga at 3:56 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


CNN: #CNN
posted by Strass at 4:00 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


I don't do Twitter myself, but I think #CaughtNoNevermind would make a nice hashtag.
posted by neroli at 4:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


CNN: {We're here all week.}
posted by seemoreglass at 4:04 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Deadspin just put together a nice 90 second breakdown of today's cable news clusterfuck.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 4:06 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Anyone know if there's a non-geolocked version of the Colbert intro out there? Youtube searching is coming up blank for me.
posted by andraste at 4:08 PM on April 17, 2013


I like seeing discussion of the latest headlines, even when the headlines are subject to change. The larger amount of noise in the thread at this point is people saying "x network SUCKS!"--which shed no light on the situation.

As I commented above, the confusion may have to do with legitimately mixed messages from law enforcement rather than bungling by CNN/ABC/AP. Could be that the earlier stories were true and it's the later ones that are being fudged (and not by the media). I don't know if it means anything, but I don't think any of the statements from the police or FBI have denied having a person in custody. They have very specifically said no one has been arrested.

In any case it seems like we could wait to excoriate the reporters until the whole story is out.
posted by torticat at 4:09 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


(The assumption, if law enforcement is fudging, would be that there are two persons of interest/suspects/whatever, of course. Since they are still looking for baseball cap guy.)
posted by torticat at 4:13 PM on April 17, 2013


Call it (bungling by the media) what you will, it's not journalism, and it deserves its derision, here and elsewhere. CNN does suck and has sucked for years because they have largely lead the dissolution of televised 'news' into the packaged infotainment and 'firstie' one upmanship that we now get instead of measured news stories. the east coast day is pretty much over, so it's gonna be a long night of scoffing at this and hoping that the real perp hasn't been tipped off or offed himself anonymously somewhere so that the answers never come.
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


NBC is reporting an arrest in the Ricin thing. They have named the suspect arrested which would seem to indicate it is a done deal.
posted by Justinian at 4:17 PM on April 17, 2013


koeselitz: "What you're asking us to do, really, is to wait until all reports are in and then summarize all of them at once – which seems more than a little impractical."

Not necessarily all reports. Pairs (assertion + retraction) would be, in my opinion, an improvement over rebroadcasting of dubious reports. I was kinda hoping for MeFi to filter the media, not present it unfiltered but with additional commentary. Given that you've gotten a lot of favorites, though, perhaps it's just that my objectives don't match up well with the majority of folks here, so I retract my request.
posted by Bugbread at 4:19 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Use of scare quotes gives this a Richard Jewell cast, agreed?

Marathon Bombing ‘Hero’ Questioned By FBI, Police At Boston Home
posted by dhartung at 4:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


It looks like the FBI is going to make a brief statement at 8pm at the Westin hotel. It probably won't amount to much, being short and fairly late..
posted by annsunny at 4:23 PM on April 17, 2013


Not necessarily all reports. Pairs (assertion + retraction) would be, in my opinion, an improvement over rebroadcasting of dubious reports. I was kinda hoping for MeFi to filter the media, not present it unfiltered but with additional commentary.

Modern Journalism is useless. The major news sources are really only any good in the aggregate; you can't rely on any one actor not totally shitting the bed in their reportage, so you have to use multiple sources.

That is where Metafilter excels on this stuff - when people post links and cite sources, it allows you to take in and judge much more efficiently. It filters.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:24 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Use of scare quotes gives this a Richard Jewell cast, agreed?

Ehh. Seems more like a bit of journalistic pedantry about not taking a position on who is or is not a hero.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:28 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


In any case it seems like we could wait to excoriate the reporters until the whole story is out.

Yes. Especially when sources are standing by their stories even in the face of law enforcement denial.

The knee jerk condemnation of reporters for getting this "wrong" is a bit strange under these circumstances.
posted by Unified Theory at 4:30 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


FBI has cancelled its 8pm briefing, according to the Boston Police's Twitter account.
posted by shortfuse at 4:31 PM on April 17, 2013


Time's Heartbreaking Boston Bombing Cover (PHOTO).
posted by ericb at 4:33 PM on April 17, 2013


Well, if they want no more speculation about things happening, they're doing a bang-up job.
posted by dhartung at 4:34 PM on April 17, 2013


Let's not repeat dubious reports of press briefings until we get an official statement from a credible source.
posted by ceribus peribus at 4:34 PM on April 17, 2013


Yeah, the FBI is doing their job. Let them get this right and then let us know.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It was tweeted by BPD, so yeah, fairly reliable.
posted by annsunny at 4:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Pogo_Fuzzybutt: "That is where Metafilter excels on this stuff - when people post links and cite sources, it allows you to take in and judge much more efficiently. It filters."

I think that sentence should end "you filter", not "it filters". But, like I said, perhaps I'm just expecting other people to do the brunt work instead of myself, which isn't really fair of me.
posted by Bugbread at 4:40 PM on April 17, 2013


The Beloit, Wis. incident mentioned above was not due to a biological agent.
posted by dhartung at 4:47 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Bugbread, if CNN plastered a headline on its website that said: "Suspect Captured, His Name is Ben Johnson, Here is a Picture of Him" -- would you really expect the MeFi community to wait until that was 100% proven before posting it here? It's sort of one of those things where in theory it may make complete sense but practically there's no way it could work. To the extent that people are jumping the gun posting reports that are then later proved to be not factual, at least they are posting somewhat reputable news sources. Thankfully we haven't had a lot of "hey my sister knows a guy who knows a cop who says..." kind of stuff. And on top of that, most information that is presented here is then discussed in a skeptical way. I like that. "Here is what is being reported, and here's how we should view it until we get more information." I really don't understand how you improve on that, other than just staying out of this thread and reading the inevitable 12-page Vanity Fair article in three weeks.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:51 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Watching the news media chasing a story around like a bunch of five year olds playing soccer today made me think of Madness' song "In The Middle Of The Night." In this song, a knicker thief learns the police are after him from the newspaper and gets out of dodge before they can arrest him.

I imagine if the bomber was watching the news and he saw a story that "authorities are on their way to arrest a suspect," he or she would likely hop in the car and drive north. Its irresponsible to report that even if you do hear it from an unnamed "reliable source" from within the police hierarchy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:53 PM on April 17, 2013


FYI, Kenneth Curtis of Tupelo, MS arrested for ricin letters. Confirmed all kinds of places.
posted by absalom at 4:57 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh, beowulf573, you fickle favoriter, you.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:59 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yes. Especially when sources are standing by their stories even in the face of law enforcement denial.

Well, we don't know that, because there's zero accountability or transparency in this story. We don't know who those sources are, if they were actually in a position to know, or what those sources actually said. Which is why it's important to get someone willing to go on the record. If there's a disagreement among your sources, you report that, which we've already seen with one surgeon claiming that he was pulling nails out of bodies, and another one saying there were no nails.

Anonymously sourced stories stink, and shouldn't be accepted without criticism, a half-hour in the washing machine, and confirmation by a few other sources. So far this week, we've had reliable sources tell us that there were five devices and 12 fatalities. We've also had sources on the record correct each other in a press conference. A bit of skepticism about who knows what and to what degree of reliability would be welcome in those newsrooms.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 5:01 PM on April 17, 2013


Sorry, using them to track my last read comment. Had to go make popcorn.
posted by beowulf573 at 5:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


FYI, Kenneth Curtis of Tupelo, MS arrested for ricin letters. Confirmed all kinds of places.

Wow, if so he's kind of bad at this terrorism lark, isn't he? Also, I guess, unrelated, unless he and whatever nutcase planted the bombs share a cause.
posted by Artw at 5:03 PM on April 17, 2013


I figured you had a method!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:03 PM on April 17, 2013


The only Kenneth Curtis in Tupelo is an 80 year old guy, so nothing in the way of online presence.
posted by absalom at 5:04 PM on April 17, 2013


(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates: "Bugbread, if CNN plastered a headline on its website that said: "Suspect Captured, His Name is Ben Johnson, Here is a Picture of Him" -- would you really expect the MeFi community to wait until that was 100% proven before posting it here?"

No, a name, or a photo, (or a description, or, or, or...) would be sufficient. But I've already said, twice, that my expectations are not aligned with those of the rest of the MeFites, and selfish (expecting other MeFites to filter so I don't have to), and that I therefore retracted my request. What else do you want from me?
posted by Bugbread at 5:10 PM on April 17, 2013


Fair enough. Didn't mean to badger you.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


What else do you want from me?

Get me a beer. :-)

Fox is saying that they are looking for two "Persons of interest", and they apparently have images of them, too.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


After today's lovely media clusterfuck, I've had it with this "LOLFIRST" news trend. I quit getting news from the television years ago because of it, and now the damn internet is saturated with it too. Argh. Argh. Argh.

I want a news network that waits until its stuff is verified. If it has to have 24/7 coverage, it can do so with "Here's what we know for sure so far," and then have stuff on repeat. That'd be fine.

As long as I'm dreaming impossible things, said station can fill the rest of its airtime with frolicking animals at local shelters who need homes. And footage of baby pandas, too.
posted by cmyk at 5:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


Romney will be at the service tomorrow, CNN reports.
posted by shortfuse at 5:16 PM on April 17, 2013


Some suggestion on the conspiracy nut forums that these two guys with backpacks etc are Navy Seals. I don't really want to link to infowars, but its easily findable if you're interested. They're basing a lot of it on the apparent 'Punisher' skull visible on one of their caps.

There is another photo where another man, dressed similarly, to them seems to be holding a radiation detector.
posted by knapah at 5:19 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I want a news network that waits until its stuff is verified. If it has to have 24/7 coverage, it can do so with "Here's what we know for sure so far," and then have stuff on repeat. That'd be fine.

Thing is, I bet CNN had a - up until now, anyway - credible source. Maybe the source was wrong, or lying, or maybe the FBI changed the story to hide something.

I'm fine with them going with what they've got. I can apply skepticism, and the story can get fixed later.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:19 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


No worries.
posted by beowulf573 at 5:21 PM on April 17, 2013


After today's lovely media clusterfuck, I've had it with this "LOLFIRST" news trend. I quit getting news from the television years ago because of it, and now the damn internet is saturated with it too. Argh. Argh. Argh. I want a news network that waits until its stuff is verified. If it has to have 24/7 coverage, it can do so with "Here's what we know for sure so far," and then have stuff on repeat. That'd be fine.

So . . . MSNBC? I mean, they weren't perfect but they were consistent all day -- here's what we know, we can't confirm with our sources that a suspect is in custody, we'll let you know what we know when we can confirm it.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Reddit live update posts are particularly good for tracking these sort of changes to the story because the post authors are taking the time to go back and update previous items with strikeout formatting to indicate when something is later retracted.

The current one is Boston Marathon Explosion - Live Update Thread #13. It contains links to the previous 12 update threads and once it fills up it will contain a link to the next thread.

Note: I'm only speaking to the quality of the posts themselves -- take all the comments with a big grain of salt.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:23 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Bugbread: “Not necessarily all reports. Pairs (assertion + retraction) would be, in my opinion, an improvement over rebroadcasting of dubious reports. I was kinda hoping for MeFi to filter the media, not present it unfiltered but with additional commentary. Given that you've gotten a lot of favorites, though, perhaps it's just that my objectives don't match up well with the majority of folks here, so I retract my request.”

Well – favorites don't mean much, I don't think. Hundreds of people are probably reading this thread, so unless somebody gets something like a thousand favorites it's still going to be a small proportion.

Anyway – yeah, I see how it would help if we could do assertion + retraction. However, I still see a lot of trouble with that; namely, those things don't always come in pairs, unfortunately, and nobody knows if or when a retraction is going to come. I mean, geez, the reports of an arrest have been asserted and retracted over and over again by some sources, it seems like.

Maybe another way of coming at this would be to say – Twitter does this kind of live-blogging thing well, but maybe it'd be good if Metafilter could hang back and do less live-blogging and more reflect. I still don't know how easy it would be to really demand that of people, but in principle I totally agree. I think it's at least a great thing to contemplate as we're going through all this – reflections on everything that's already been reported so far are often much more helpful or worthwhile than hasty posts of brand-new information. We'll probably end up with a lot of both, but I do agree that we should make sure we have the former at least as much as the latter.
posted by koeselitz at 5:30 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Arsenio: I saw the CBS Boston anchor basically repeating the same thing: "We've been saying this all along. We are not reporting this, but other sources are reporting it." Interesting differentiation that you rarely see outside of election night "calling Florida" situations.
posted by dhartung at 5:32 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think I'm going to try to take the other side. Something big does seem to have happened today, in terms of perps. CNN thought they had it from two places. They went with it.

I'm not falling all over myself to blame them.
posted by Trochanter at 5:33 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


FYI, Kenneth Curtis of Tupelo, MS arrested for ricin letters. Confirmed all kinds of places.

AP, Buzzfeed, NYT have it as Paul Kevin Curtis.
posted by anastasiav at 5:38 PM on April 17, 2013


Possibly the discussion of how we have the discussion should go to the Meta?
posted by Artw at 5:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yes, the NYTimes has this at the bottom of their article:

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: April 17, 2013

An earlier version of this article gave an incorrect name for the suspect. He is Paul Kevin Curtis, not Kenneth Curtis.
posted by nightwood at 5:41 PM on April 17, 2013


CNN thought they had it from two places. They went with it.

The Trouble with Scoops
I'd argue that the reason is that in the frenzy of this kind of happening, they fail to realize something important: Scoops are beside the point. When Americans are looking to learn about and understand this kind of horrible event, they don't care whether you got a scoop. They want to understand what happened. I don't think the news organizations, particularly the TV networks, understand this at all.
...
There are two kinds of scoops, the real and the ephemeral. A real scoop is a story that would not have come to light, either at all or at least for a considerable amount of time, had it not been for your reporting. When a reporter exposes corruption, or details the unforeseen consequences of official policy, or even just offers a compelling portrait of people whose story wouldn't have otherwise been told, she has gotten a genuine scoop. Then there's the far more common kind, what many in the media consider a scoop but is no scoop at all. That's when you discover and publish some piece of information that everyone is going to learn very soon, but you happen to be the one who got it out ten minutes or ten seconds before your competitors.
(emphasis mine)
posted by tonycpsu at 5:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [22 favorites]


fbi.gov press release
posted by maggieb at 5:44 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Onion continues to be awesome:

Internet Comes Up With 8.5 Million Leads On Potential Boston Bombing Suspect
posted by Jacqueline at 5:45 PM on April 17, 2013 [16 favorites]


I'm kinda confused why people keep talking about the ricin stuff here.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:46 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


For starters, because it's eerily like the anthrax letters that happened about the time of the September 11th attacks and people naturally see patterns even when none are present.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:49 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Watch Rene Rancourt and 17,565 Bruins fans sing the national anthem tonight at the TD Bank Garden.

Yes, Rene can barely carry a tune, but he's our Rene.
posted by wensink at 5:50 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


A Boston law enforcement source told CNN, "We got him," but wouldn't clarify whether that meant a suspect has been identified or arrested.

I wonder if that was the source of the confusion earlier.
posted by cozy at 6:01 PM on April 17, 2013


Watch Rene Rancourt and 17,565 Bruins fans sing the national anthem tonight at the TD Bank Garden.

I love that you can hear the crowd's collective Boston accent. Rampahts and rawkets.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:02 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Unless it's a tornado, tidal wave, train derailment, or zombie invasion in my neighborhood, getting it right is more important than getting it fast.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 6:08 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Just now catching up with some of the media reports today. When news outlets weren't busy tsk tsking Reddit, they were using Reddit content as news (usually without any credit).

Here is a clip from a Boston local news station. Their "breaking news" items are photos of these two guys that Reddit has been circulating for over 24 hours. They report that police are asking for help in identifying those individuals. Which begs the question: is law enforcement looking to Reddit for help? Did they independently reach the Reddit users' conclusion that these guys might be of some interest? Or is the news just reporting Reddit threads because they have run out of verifiable facts to report?

The reporter says that these photos have been "culled from thousands of photos viewed by investigators." Or Reddit users.
posted by murfed13 at 6:09 PM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


The little bits of reporting I've listened to that have had interviews with locals with strong accents has made me so homesick.

Re: speed scoops - I bet that if the Watergate scandal broke today, we'd get it via nothing but Twitter and unreliable sources and end up knowing less than nothing.
posted by rtha at 6:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


We don't actually know the other incidents are not related either. Why is everyone seemingly so invested in the idea that if one or two white guys carry out a terrorist attack, they must just be lone nuts? I mean, not to say there is evidence of a connection either, it's just pretty odd how insistent people always reflexively seem about it. Is it like some kind of 3D social chess move meant to discourage any potential would-be copycats, or are people in a country that practically started life as a conspiracy of white guys against their government--and that actually fought a major civil war against another conspiracy of white guys against their government--really incapable of conceiving it's possible for white guys to conspire against their government?
posted by saulgoodman at 6:12 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


@murfed13: that is a clip from a Houston station, not Boston.
posted by wordsmith at 6:12 PM on April 17, 2013


Marathon Bombing ‘Hero’ Questioned By FBI, Police At Boston Home

This surprised even my jaundiced, paranoid mind. But it totally makes sense as an investigative lead.
posted by Mid at 6:13 PM on April 17, 2013


@murfed13: that is a clip from a Houston station, not Boston.

Oops, sorry about that.
posted by murfed13 at 6:14 PM on April 17, 2013


@MagicJohnson: My continuous thoughts and prayers are with the families and those affected by the Boston Marathon bombings. #PrayForBoston
posted by Room 641-A at 6:14 PM on April 17, 2013


We don't actually know the other incidents are not related either. Why is everyone seemingly so invested in the idea that if one or two white guys carry out a terrorist attack, they must just be a lone nuts?

I guess because they've already arrested the ricin guy and are still looking for the Boston perps? But other than that, it's because of bias and prejudice and a massive conspiracy to keep the sheeple in the dark oops I said too much.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2013


incapable of conceiving it's possible for white guys to conspire against their government?

Is two guys a conspiracy or just a confederacy of dunces?
posted by GuyZero at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Ten bucks says THIS is the ricin guy.
posted by cyndigo at 6:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


From the Ten bucks says THIS is the ricin guy. link:

Let the record show that on this date, March 05, 2008, I, Paul Kevin Curtis, being of sound mind, am attempting once again to expose various parties within the government, FBI, police departments, legal & healthcare systems, etc. that a conspiracy to ruin my reputation in the community as well as an ongoing effort to break down the foundation I worked more than 20 years to build in the country music scene, began on the day I accidentally discovered a refrigerator full of dismembered body parts & organs wrapped in plastic in the morgue of the largest non-metropolitan healthcare organization in the United States of America, AKA North Mississippi Medical Center where I was employed from 1998 until March of 2000.

That dude definitely wins weird Twitter.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:19 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


saulgoodman: "Why is everyone seemingly so invested in the idea that if one or two white guys carry out a terrorist attack, they must just be a lone nuts?"

You mean "in general"? Because I don't know that I've heard anyone say that.

You mean "in this case"? Because if there were more of them, they would have been able to work together to create a better bomb. This is also true if it was one or two black guys, or one or two Asian guys, or one or two whatever. The timing of the blasts and construction of the bombs is what is pointing at a lone nut or small group. It's not a race thing.
posted by Bugbread at 6:20 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


That's very probably correct, cyndigo. Those are . . . certainly some body parts. And very convincing blood. Where's the bowl full of the dead man's guts?

Thanks again for convincing us to tear down the state mental hospitals, libertarians! We have all gained so much.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:21 PM on April 17, 2013


Ten bucks says THIS is the ricin guy.

I know it's not really funny, but the pic of the trash can with "body parts" spray painted on it cracked me up. WTF?
posted by cottonswab at 6:21 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


dhartung: Use of scare quotes gives this a Richard Jewell cast, agreed?

Marathon Bombing ‘Hero’ Questioned By FBI, Police At Boston Home
Mid: This surprised even my jaundiced, paranoid mind. But it totally makes sense as an investigative lead.
As long as they don't hound him into the grave they way the did Richard Jewell. He was only two years older than I am.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:21 PM on April 17, 2013


Don't be an asshole. I'm not one of those people. But I have known an awful lot of really hardcore wingers in my life. It's not a crazy question to raise, is it?
posted by saulgoodman at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2013


This (blood in pic) from Reddit seems like better than the average speculation. There is some indication (YouTube) that the FBI is seeking information on the same two dudes.
posted by Mid at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


cyndigo: "Ten bucks says THIS is the ricin guy."

If you look at the bottom of the page it's signed the same way the ricin letter was: "This is Kevin Curtis& I approve this message."
posted by Strass at 6:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Nah, ricin is relatively easy to make.
posted by Justinian at 6:25 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ricin mailing arrestee is an Elvis impersonator who is into dismembered body parts awareness
posted by nickyskye at 6:26 PM on April 17, 2013


Also, it looks like his book's myspace(?) has been taken down for "routine maintenance?"
posted by Strass at 6:27 PM on April 17, 2013


saulgoodman: "Don't be an asshole. I'm not one of those people."

Sorry, I didn't mean to be an asshole, I meant, literally, that I haven't seen people invested in the "in general, if terrorists are white, they must be lone nuts" thing, and in this case, it seems like people believe that it's one or two nuts based on the bomb construction and explosion timing, not on the race.

I don't think it's a crazy question, but I do think it is, literally, begging the question, in that it asks "Why do people believe X?", while I don't think there's any evidence that people even do believe X.
posted by Bugbread at 6:28 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


This from Reddit seems like better than the average speculation. There is some indication (YouTube) that the FBI is seeking information on the same two dudes.

Eh it's possible but it really probably isn't. First of all, those guys were standing by the first blast site for, I believe, hours. That would be pretty weird. Secondly, they stated that it was a black bag at the second blast site, but it's the guy with the blue bag moving to the second blast site. On top of all that, they really just look like runners, which is, I know, exactly what THEY want you to think they look like!! but honestly, other than the fact that they are a bit Arab looking, everything else points to the fact they are just two dudes taking in the race (and what I mean by that is some might think that Arab looking = possible bombers). On top of all that, I'm not convinced that the guy loses his backpack -- it actually kind of looks like he's still wearing it or is holding it by his feet. If the FBI thinks those are the guys who did it, it's not because of evidence presented so far, but surveillance footage that weren't not privy to.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:30 PM on April 17, 2013


That's all fair criticism, I agree.
posted by Mid at 6:38 PM on April 17, 2013


I'm sorry, there's been a lot of chatter - is it confirmed that the FBI are interested in those two guys specifically? Or is that an assumption?
posted by Miko at 6:38 PM on April 17, 2013


they really just look like runners

Well, you have to admit, that would be a pretty reasonable way to dress if you WERE going to drop a bomb.
posted by unSane at 6:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, there's been a lot of chatter - is it confirmed that the FBI are interested in those two guys specifically? Or is that an assumption?

The speculation so far has been based off of two things at this point: a Reddit thread and a quick story from a local Fox affiliate in Texas. I don't think there's been an official connection to the FBI yet.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:41 PM on April 17, 2013


As opposed to, you know, a twirly moustache and a top hat, or bringing a camel.
posted by unSane at 6:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [5 favorites]


Well, you have to admit, that would be a pretty reasonable way to dress if you WERE going to drop a bomb.

Sure, absolutely. But it doesn't match the descriptions we were getting earlier about a guy in a gray hoodie and black jacket and so forth. Of course, that was back during the "they've arrested someone!" stage of things, so that info might be just as dated/incorrect as everything else.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:43 PM on April 17, 2013


Or flying a Sopwith Camel
posted by mollweide at 6:44 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


How are camels at distance running, anyhow?

Edited to add: answer. /derail
posted by evidenceofabsence at 6:44 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm sorry, there's been a lot of chatter - is it confirmed that the FBI are interested in those two guys specifically? Or is that an assumption?

If I am following correctly, Fox News (national) has said that the FBI has passed around pics of 2 guys they want to identify, but Fox (national) has not shown the pics. A Texas Fox affiliate showed the pics and it is these two guys. The Texas affiliate story is here.
posted by Mid at 6:44 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I am looking at the wikipedia page for Ken Feinberg, who has been named as administrator for the One fund to help victims of the bombing. He seems a bit controversial. Anyone who can comment on him?
posted by annsunny at 6:46 PM on April 17, 2013


Why is everyone seemingly so invested in the idea that if one or two white guys carry out a terrorist attack, they must just be lone nuts?

I dunno about invested, but I would rate the possibility high because that is the history of recent white guy terrorism in America. You'd have to go back 40 or 50 years to get a good violent conspiracy from white America.

Not that there hasn't been lots of threatened violence by would-be terrorist groups, it's just that they never seem to get around to lighting the fuses either due to incompetence, lack of will, or law enforcement.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:48 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think a bomber would be casually hanging around the scene of the crime. They'd deposit the bomb and get the hell out. Do any of the photos show someone running before the explosion?



Too soon?
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:53 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


I imagine if the bomber was watching the news and he saw a story that "authorities are on their way to arrest a suspect."

This is my next pitch to the Cohen brothers.
posted by SPrintF at 6:59 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think a bomber would be casually hanging around the scene of the crime. They'd deposit the bomb and get the hell out.

I wouldn't. You'd want to establish the bag on the ground as belonging there for a while, and then casually walk away five minutes or so before it's set to go off so as to minimize the chance of anyone trying to match the bag to its owner.

Dropping and running would be hella suspicious.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:00 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


You'd have to go back 40 or 50 years to get a good violent conspiracy from white America.

Unless of course you were talking about abortion providers - the targets of the largest ongoing terrorist threat in America and one that comes from white America. Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder are more closely linked in terms of race, religion, political ideology, and methodology than much of what we call Al-Qaeda. And they are better funded.

So let's not pretend there hasn't been a terrorist agenda consisting of violent demonstrations, arson, bombing, threats, and murder going on for decades carried out by White America.
posted by allen.spaulding at 7:09 PM on April 17, 2013 [22 favorites]


A fertilizer factory just exploded in Waco, Texas.
posted by rollbiz at 7:11 PM on April 17, 2013


Does anyone else feel like everything crazy is just suddenly happening all at once?
posted by SkylitDrawl at 7:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


Guess someone only order the 10 pound bag when we got about 20 pounds to pack
posted by drewbage1847 at 7:16 PM on April 17, 2013


A fertilizer factory just exploded in Waco, Texas.

So, far be it from me to be an expert on fertilizer factories, but isn't this one of those things that's kind of liable to happen once in a while?
posted by hoyland at 7:17 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


The timing is certainly concerning, but at the same time, a fertilizer factory seems like about the likeliest thing to explode on its own, doesn't it?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:17 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Dropping and running yes, but hanging around with your accomplice for an hour and then going over to drop your second bomb down the way - when you aren't going to have time to set your bag down and mingle for a while. I suppose it's not beyond question, but if I were doing this we'd split up a couple blocks apart on our way in.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:17 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


This aft, during the "we have an arrest" phase, when MSNBC was saying "we can't confirm that" they did say that the FBI had film footage shot from the second floor of Lord & Taylor that showed someone dropping a bag at the second site. And I can't recall - but I think they matched them up with the pics.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:18 PM on April 17, 2013


Crazy shit happens all the time, but right now the media's filters (and our own) are attuned to noticing and spreading news of explosions and possible terrorist incidents. It's like how for a while there seemed to be an epidemic of face-biting, whereas more likely what were normally just local news stories were temporarily being reported on a national scale after the first particularly horrific face-biting attack.

My knee jerk reaction to the fertilizer plant explosion is industrial accident, not terrorism. Given that fertilizer is such an inherently explosive substance that it's used to make bombs, it makes sense that sometimes it would blow up on accident as well.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:20 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


So, far be it from me to be an expert on fertilizer factories, but isn't this one of those things that's kind of liable to happen once in a while?

The timing is certainly concerning, but at the same time, a fertilizer factory seems like about the likeliest thing to explode on its own, doesn't it?

Certainly, yes. The timing and location caught my attention, and it's just happened, so just thought I'd note it. Not trying to make or even imply a connection.
posted by rollbiz at 7:21 PM on April 17, 2013


The fertilizer plant is in West, not in Waco. The likelihood of the explosion being related to the Branch Davidians instead of being an industrial accident is very low. That's been all over my twitter feeds and nobody is implying it's terrorism.
posted by immlass at 7:22 PM on April 17, 2013


Lawrence O'Donnell is saying that the Boston investigation is being hampered because they can't track the gunpowder lot because some years ago, the NRA blocked the ability to do the tagging/tracking because the domino theory that first you track my powder, etc etc
posted by madamjujujive at 7:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


So, far be it from me to be an expert on fertilizer factories, but isn't this one of those things that's kind of liable to happen once in a while?

Yep, whenever the shit hits the fan.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [10 favorites]


Fertilizer isn't inherently explosive. You generally have to combine it with some kind of fuel (e.g. sugar, diesel).
posted by unSane at 7:23 PM on April 17, 2013


It's also not in Waco, it's 20 miles of nothing away from Waco. We'd never have heard of Waco without that incident years ago, and if this happened in West, TX, without a Waco having happened before, we'd scratch and yawn about a fertilizer explosion in some backwater Texas town.
posted by Miko at 7:23 PM on April 17, 2013


Fertilizer isn't inherently explosive. You generally have to combine it with some kind of fuel

It is a fuel. C.f. flour.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:27 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well. The BD complex was not actually in Waco either, but northeast of it. I mean this place must be within 15 miles of it. It is a pretty weird coincidence, two days off the 20th anniversary.

Not that pretty weird coincidences don't happen.
posted by torticat at 7:28 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fertilizer isn't a fuel. It's an oxidizer.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:32 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Pretty weird coincidences happen all the time. The human brain makes patterns out of things that aren't related. No one should be alarmed over this being anything other than just an industrial accident until we have good reason to believe otherwise (good reason = something more than the date and location triggering our brain's proclivity to see patterns).
posted by Jacqueline at 7:33 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The New Yorker: Why Boston’s Hospitals Were Ready.
posted by ericb at 7:33 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I don't think you guys understand how a dust explosion works.
posted by charlie don't surf at 7:34 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I don't think it's that weird, honestly. Everything has to happen somewhere. That Waco thing was 20 years ago.
posted by Miko at 7:34 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fertilizer isn't a fuel. It's an oxidizer.

Ah, then I had it backwards. What's the fuel in an industrial fertilizer explosion, then?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:34 PM on April 17, 2013


I do not think these events are at all related. I am just surprised by how much shit has gone wrong in the last 72 hours or so.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 7:35 PM on April 17, 2013


I don't have a TV at home but I am at a conference right now and we have one in the hotel. I'm watching interviews with people now coming out of the hospitals. What's killing me is that in the case of so many of the victims, they were entire groups of friends and family who were, of course, standing nearby one another at the event. It's hard to think about one victim, let alone your two friends, and your wife's two brothers, all at once, which is the interview I'm looking at now on Anderson Cooper. Martin Richard's family friends, another example.
posted by Miko at 7:36 PM on April 17, 2013


We Are Boston Strong!
posted by ericb at 7:37 PM on April 17, 2013


Ammonium Nitrate Disaster
posted by Miko at 7:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Back in Boston. Boylston/Copley still closed down - signs warning to seek alternate route as far out as Malden. I had no issue coming around a weird way to my house, which was mostly weird because I'm no good with directions, but there was no real traffic at 9PM and everything went smoothly. It's weird that huge portions of my neighborhood are cordoned off and there are police/Nat'l Guard around, but other than that... Boston feels pretty Bostonian.

To say I had ALL THE FEELS when the skyline came into view is putting it mildly.
posted by sonika at 7:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [11 favorites]


Relax. Texas surely fully funded its emergency response, regulatory inspection, and worker safety programs. I'm sure they'll handle this as well as Atul Gawande - they take safety seriously down there.
posted by allen.spaulding at 7:39 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


City Wide Interfaith Service tomorrow (April 18, 11 a.m.) at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross (with President and First Lady, Mrs. Obama).
posted by ericb at 7:39 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


allen.spaulding: "Relax. Texas surely fully funded its emergency response, regulatory inspection, and worker safety programs. I'm sure they'll handle this as well as Atul Gawande - they take safety seriously down there."

Oh, hey, awesome! Snark!
posted by Bugbread at 7:39 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


> I am just surprised by how much shit has gone wrong in the last 72 hours or so.

Most of us have probably been paying more attention to the news in the last 72 hours than we would normally, so of course we're going to be aware of more shit happening, and this increased awareness is increasing our levels of cyborg deer stress.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:40 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


West, TX fertilizer explosion is unrelated.

Except in that it's rattling my already shaky nerves. This week has been too much already.
posted by donajo at 7:40 PM on April 17, 2013


Reverend Al Sharpton Attacks CNN’s John King For ‘Coded, Offensive Language’ Describing Boston Suspect As ‘Dark-Skinned’.
posted by ericb at 7:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, the poison letter attacks are probably related - Cory Doctorow covers this a bit in "When Sysadmins Ruled the Earth." Once a large terrorist event happens, it causes copy-cat attacks - those who've been planning them lose their last inhibitions once they see someone else acting, or they're afraid their own attacks will be foiled/ignored if they don't act immediately.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:41 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I grew up watching Sharpton grandstand on the evening news and taking him with a big grain of salt, but in the past 10 years I find I often think he's spot on.
posted by Miko at 7:42 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm sure they'll handle this as well as Atul Gawande

How did Atul Gawande get involved in this? Checklists? Or is that a new phrase now "as well as Atul Gawande?"

Confused...
posted by sweetkid at 7:42 PM on April 17, 2013


He works at Mass General (right? Do I have that right?) He works at some Boston hospital where he piloted the checklist thing.
posted by Miko at 7:44 PM on April 17, 2013


The poison letters were postmarked April 8th, so it's hard to see how they could be related.
posted by something something at 7:45 PM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


Also he wrote this which came out today which I haven't read yet-- Why Boston's Hospitals Were Ready.
posted by Miko at 7:46 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


ahh maybe that's it.
posted by sweetkid at 7:48 PM on April 17, 2013


He works at Brigham and Women's Hospital.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:49 PM on April 17, 2013


THanks ocherdraco. Just read the article which verifies that - I misremembered.
posted by Miko at 7:52 PM on April 17, 2013


The poison letters were postmarked April 8th, so it's hard to see how they could be related.

Yikes, missed that bit. Bizarre-ass coincidence, then - I don't think the two acts were co-ordinated.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:54 PM on April 17, 2013


Holy Cross seems like a... random... spot for a memorial. Though it also explains nicely the somewhat incongruous horde of news vans around Washington St and police guard at same. Drove by it tonight and thought "Huh" but shrugged it off.

Given that I live directly between the crime zone and the cathedral, tomorrow is going to be an AMAZING day to try and go anywhere. So, I guess I won't.
posted by sonika at 7:54 PM on April 17, 2013


donajo: "Except in that it's rattling my already shaky nerves. This week has been too much already."

Exactly, this week has just had a bit of an apocalyptic vibe to it. In my neck of the woods, we got earthquakes early Tuesday morning and tornadoes today. I'd like to stay in bed tomorrow and just curl up in a fetal position, but the way this week is shaking down, even that could be dangerous.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:56 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Holy Cross seems like a... random... spot for a memorial.

I think it's 1) big, and 2) away from downtown so easier to get motorcades to and from.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:56 PM on April 17, 2013


Shit blows up all the time in Texas, only occasionally as part of a political statement. Our government, the same one that's a-ok with companies burning toxic waste to make cement and fracking everything to hell and back, makes sure of that.

Actual violent outbursts tend to be more about shooting things.

Of course, I could be wrong, but in general you do well in assuming incompetence for this kind of thing.
posted by emjaybee at 8:01 PM on April 17, 2013


The incident in/near Waco has its own thread now.
posted by seemoreglass at 8:05 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


Unless of course you were talking about abortion providers - the targets of the largest ongoing terrorist threat in America and one that comes from white America.

Good point. I stand corrected.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:11 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Hi! I work here. It's been sort of a tough week. Some of the people here are from Texas and they care about the place and that people were hurt. Making lazy cracks about this is uncool. Please don't do that. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:22 PM on April 17, 2013 [52 favorites]


Cathedral of the Holy Cross is indeed the church I thought it would be - if there's a larger church in Boston, I'm not familiar with it. It is pretty huge for our little city.

Plus, the review on Google Maps describes it as, and I quote, "Look good". So it sounds like the best choice.
posted by maryr at 8:51 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh, no doubt Holy Cross is as big as you're gonna get. I guess Trinity is out for crime scene reasons... as is Arlington St... So, yeah, that does take out the more "Boston-y" churches. Not like you could really get a crowd in Old North Church either.
posted by sonika at 9:01 PM on April 17, 2013


This made the hair on the back of my neck stand up a little.
posted by dersins at 9:34 PM on April 17, 2013


dhartung: "Use of scare quotes gives this a Richard Jewell cast, agreed?

Marathon Bombing ‘Hero’ Questioned By FBI, Police At Boston Home"

I was kind of waiting for them to go after him somehow. Anonymous announced on Twitter yesterday (I think) that he had been with Occupy.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:53 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


GuyZero: "Is two guys a conspiracy or just a confederacy of dunces?"

Two white guys? Probably a neo-confederacy of dunces.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:57 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Their "breaking news" items are photos of these two guys that Reddit has been circulating for over 24 hours.

These two guys were outted or doxxed or whatever you want to call it. Apparently Reddit and 4Chan are sufficiently satisfied that they have nothing to do with the bombing. I'm not going to post to their photos anymore, but I did just want to let people know that the internet mob has now declared that there is to be no more speculation about these two.
posted by murfed13 at 10:54 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Carlos Arredondo was on Democracy Now yesterday. Apparently he had been on DN in the past. I was also struck by Dave Zirin's interview during the same hour. Uncommonly eloquent in the face of such a disaster.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:16 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Reddit and 4Chan are probably thinking the same thing I am - that you'd split up on your way in, mingle a bit with the crowd, place your bombs and head out separately, not hang out together for an hour with bombs strapped to your back like it was a film about cops terrorists who are buddies. But the media, burned by its special inside sources earlier today, has now latched onto those two for better or worse (and admittedly, they were right at ground zero of one of the two blasts at some point).

I would think that if those were the two guys the police are interested in, the cat would be pretty much out of the bag what with their pictures being all over the web and the cops would be all "These are our suspects - can anyone identify them or tell us where they are? Now!" Since the cops are being all cards close to their chest I'm wondering if any of the people who've been featured in circle and arrow theater (with a paragraph on the back of each one to be used against them) haven't already been eliminated as suspects.

Time will tell.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:20 PM on April 17, 2013


Web is awash in advice on making bombs, killing people - "Bomb-making videos and instruction manuals are protected by the Constitution’s First Amendment, which guarantees free speech. Federal law also protects media platforms from liability for the actions of their users."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:30 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


These two guys were outted or doxxed or whatever you want to call it. Apparently Reddit and 4Chan are sufficiently satisfied that they have nothing to do with the bombing.

- knock knock -

You open your front door. You see several thousand people staring at you, scowling, squinting, scribbling notes in dog-eared journals. They fill your front yard and sprawl out over the sidewalk and into the street. One of them, a man standing far too close for comfort, wild-eyed and disheveled, thrusts out a finger. His fingertip is wavering inches from your left eye. A hush descends. Silence.

A cough here, a shrug there and the spell is broken. People look awkwardly at their shoes. Muttering. Grumbling. Gesticulations. Shouting. Scuffling. Animal noises. Suddenly a bugle sounds and every single head in the crowd snaps to the left, staring off at the horizon bearing precisely north by northeast. Stampede. In seconds all that remains are footprints, mud that once was grass and a single straggler urinating on your sunflowers.

You spend the rest of the morning boarding up your windows.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [32 favorites]


Found via Reddit, this excellent cautionary tale by Errol Morris referencing the "umbrella man" at Dealey Plaza the day that Kennedy was shot. I'm impressed with how well they're walking back the cat on the speculation that led to the identification of two apparently innocent men (also posted here, above), said to be a high school athlete and his running coach, now media fodder and possibly conflated with the leaks about supposed FBI persons of interest "shown only to law enforcement".
posted by dhartung at 12:42 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Also, someone took the footage the Boston Globe's photog took at the finish line ("we've had an attack") and stabilized it.
posted by dhartung at 12:53 AM on April 18, 2013 [38 favorites]


dhartung: "Also, someone took the footage the Boston Globe's photog took at the finish line ("we've had an attack") and stabilized it."

Astonishing stuff, and a drastic change in clarity from the original video (not blaming the photographer, of course!). I would love to see this done to more videos like it was done here. Thanks for sharing it.
posted by barnacles at 2:05 AM on April 18, 2013


dhartung: "Also, someone took the footage the Boston Globe's photog took at the finish line ("we've had an attack") and stabilized it."

That is absolutely amazing. I think it's the first time where an on-site video made me feel like it was truly real.
posted by Bugbread at 2:12 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Rush Limbaugh submits his entry for biggest asshole of the month.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:43 AM on April 18, 2013


Fertilizer isn't inherently explosive. You generally have to combine it with some kind of fuel

Ammonium Nitrate is definitely an explosive. Well, because it's a *very* insensitive one, it's actually called a blasting agent*, but as the Oppau explosion will tell you, if you poke it right, it can detonate, by decomposing into N2O, and H2O.

Note the formulation -- NH4NO3. Basically, you have fuel (H) and oxidizer(O) in place, bound by nitrogen. A rule of thumb for explosives is the more nitrogen about, esp. bound to each other, the more sensitive. AN has two, but they're not bound to each other.

ANFO does need some compression to detonate, but in a big pile, gravity provides that -- this is why you generally don't want to make a big pile of this stuff. When it decomposes non-explosively, it gets very warm. If things get very warm in the pile, it can runaway and explode.

The point of adding fuel oil to make ANFO is basically to make the AN more sensitive, and you don't need much. Commercial ANFO is 92-96% AN and 4-8% fuel oil. You do get some extra reaction from the fuel oil grabbing the N2O and using that as an oxidizer.

There are ways to make ANFO more special. Al+ANFO used to be a common "super" ANFO, with finely powdered aluminum as an extra reactant**, and ANNM is AN with NitroMethane instead of fuel oil. Aluminized ANFO is pretty rare now because of cost, but ANNM has the nice property of being a slurry, and being mixable on site, so you basically mix it as you're dumping it into a borehole, so it's very safe until just before you put it into place.

And, yes, it can be used by the bad guys. The OKC bombing was done with a combination of ANFO and ANNM -- they basically poured some nitromethane into the ANFO.

And, looking at this post? I should say hi to the FBI. No, I'm not a bad guy. I just like fireworks.

* A blasting agent isn't "cap sensitive", that is, a blasting cap or detonator won't set it off. You use a small booster charge, like PETN, or historically, Dynamite. A truly large pile, however, gets a lot of compression at the bottom of the pile, which can make the substance more sensitive -- or just let it get warm enough that it starts decomposing. At the start, this decomposition isn't explosive, but it does release a lot of heat, and if things get hot enough, it can then detonate.

** Advice. Stay away from finely powdered aluminum. It wants oxygen *RIGHT NOW*. Watch someone who makes fireworks, the German flake Al is something they treat with a lot of respect. And, because flash powder is both easy to make and quite powerful, most websites won't sell it to you until you can prove that you're not making bombs, or until you have a federal explosives licenses. Even when they will sell it, without the license, you can't get more than a pound per order, and most places limit you to two pounds per year.

Aluminum: Surprisingly pissy in small sizes. Still, there are things it can do in fireworks that nothing else can -- generally, if it makes a very loud bang or a very white flash, aluminum is involved.
posted by eriko at 2:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [13 favorites]


And not just props, but MAD PROPS, to taz and the mefi moderator corps for the formatting fix.
posted by eriko at 3:04 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


dhartung: "Also, someone took the footage the Boston Globe's photog took at the finish line ("we've had an attack") and stabilized it."

That is absolutely amazing. I think it's the first time where an on-site video made me feel like it was truly real.

Yeah, with basic open-source video editing software and pre-designed plugins, this is actually easy to do. I've seen it done with a couple videos, most notably the Zapruder JFK assassination film, and once your eye focuses on the subject, it actually feels like it was taken with a camera on a tripod. This may end up being pretty useful, because (at least for me), it removes that sense of imbalance and discombobulation that comes from jerky camera moves and provides a better sense of what's going on. IIRC law enforcement agencies have their own methodology for doing this, but if they don't, someone should really point them to how to do it.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:40 AM on April 18, 2013


Gawker's Adrian Chen has collected some of the "find the bombers" commentary on 4chan and Reddit.

I guess this is the age we live in, but it's strange to see serious speculation that the FBI (which has access to CCTV footage, first-hand testimony &c.) is getting its tips from people drawing red circles around the heads of people in stills from YouTube videos.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:17 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Authorities have clear video images of two separate suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings carrying black bags at each explosion site and are planning to release the images today in an appeal for the public’s help in identifying the men, according to an official briefed on the case. The official said that the two suspects were seen separately on videotape -- one at each of the two bombing sites, which are located about a block apart."

This supports earlier theories suggesting two perpetrators. It also seems to rule out the two guys who were Scooby-Doo'd by Reddit/4-Chan.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:03 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I suspected the reddit detective squad was not all that, but withheld judgment. Humans are inclined to do whatever they can to solve things that stress them out, and they're exceedingly inclined to make up stories. There's a ton of visual data to make up stories abot. That Gawker piece was great: "But one thing is certain: If any of these details turn out to be remotely correct, the 99% that weren't will be ignored and this will become the story of "How Reddit Solved The Boston Marathon Bombing."

West is hardly "miles of nothing away from Waco". It's on I35 and this plant was unfortunately placed right smack dab in the middle of a residential area. I can absolutely guarantee you that you'd be hearing about this even if David Koresh's mommy had decided a Mexican abortion was the way to go

Sorry, I didn't meant that to read like a TX disparagement; I was born in TX and spent a lot of time there growing up, and sometimes I make "in the family" jokes about TX and this one was ill-advised. The two locations aren't right on top of each other. I think we'd be hearing about an industrial fire as big as this. What we wouldn't be doing is saying "Whoa, it's connected to Waco!" In other words, Waco is only imprinted on most Americans' consciousness because of the seige. We'd see it for what it almost certainly is, an industrial fire. I really can't see it as being related - it's not on the actual anniversary, it's not anywhere symbolic, and fertilizer plants are dangerous. It really looks like horses, not zebras.
posted by Miko at 5:11 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I suspected the reddit detective squad was not all that, but withheld judgment. Humans are inclined to do whatever they can to solve things that stress them out, and they're exceedingly inclined to make up stories.

Yeah - the vast majority of the online detective work going on at the moment is a kind of coping mechanism. It's an interesting thing to do, but it also gives the sense of having done something. The problem with doxxing, however, is that it's pretty easy to do, and somebody is almost always going to think that it is justified in a particular circumstance - and the narrative that law enforcement needs this kind of information, which can only come from external sources, is a powerful driver.

(I mean, who knows? The crowd might turn up something vital, but it seems more likely that the Internet will come into play usefully if and when law enforcement publishes photos of people they want to talk to, rather than in identifying methods and suspects itself.)

I don't think there's anything much to be done about that - it's just something that now happens, because of the amount of human processing cycles able to be directed to these things and shared on the web. I was in London when the subway was bombed, and a similar thing happened - except that at that point there weren't communities that the mainstream media could go to to report on "what the Internet is thinking" in the way that there are now, which seems to create a feedback loop sometimes...
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:32 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


A high school friend who lives in Mass and was in Boston for the marathon just posted on facebook that he was awakened this morning by a call from Homeland Security asking questions about the photos he took on Boylston St.
posted by phunniemee at 5:33 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I remember seeing a stabilized version of the Zapruder film somewhere. Felt completely different.
posted by chinston at 5:51 AM on April 18, 2013


Not going to link directly to it, but it seems like the New York Post is fucking up again. (Or at the very least way, way out on a limb.)
posted by BobbyVan at 5:52 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Terrorism and Privilege
White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result, subjected to special screening, or threatened with deportation.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:53 AM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


Hope the NYPost ends up bankrupt over that photo/headline.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:00 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


For those interested, there's a number of stabilized versions of the Zapruder film, but this one (and I feel like this should be obvious, but NSFL/gore) seems to be the most comprehensive.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:02 AM on April 18, 2013


If you want to see the effect without the gore, the famous 1967 footage of Bigfoot got the same treatment.
posted by jquinby at 6:06 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think there's anything much to be done about that - it's just something that now happens

Yeah. But I think as individuals we can choose the kind of relationship we have to that process, as well. I am trying a lot harder to reserve judgment than I otherwise would.
posted by Miko at 6:09 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


the New York Post is fucking up again.

Yeah. So, are the local Fox affiliate in TX and the NYP the only media (apart from blogs and such) that have actually claimed those were the photos distributed in the internal FBI memo? Just wondering how far this went for your average news viewer (as opposed to obsessive internet comber).
posted by torticat at 6:10 AM on April 18, 2013


Saying "The New York Post fucked up again" makes possibly unwarranted assumptions about the goals of the New York Post as an institution.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:20 AM on April 18, 2013 [18 favorites]


Yeah, as far as its owner is concerned, the Post is doing it right. I haven't heard the Post referred to this much since the Koch administration.
posted by Miko at 6:21 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's a shame because they've already been cleared.

Really? I haven't seen that officially. Do you have a link?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:22 AM on April 18, 2013


Really? I haven't seen that officially. Do you have a link?

They weren't officially suspects so they weren't "officially" or publicly cleared. Reddit/4chan posted their Facebook pages. They were both clearly runners, and one of them posted and then deleted that he had already spoken to law enforcement. There's info about this on Reddit.
posted by murfed13 at 6:34 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Or replace "The New York Post" with the name of any media company, and my previous comment is just as true *glares at CNN*
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:37 AM on April 18, 2013


Cheers, Internet detective squad! Now maybe calm the fuck down?
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Saying "The New York Post fucked up again" makes possibly unwarranted assumptions about the goals of the New York Post as an institution.

It's also kind of like saying "The sun rose from an easterly direction this morning" or "water tends to make things wet".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Aaron Katersky ‏@AaronKatersky 8m
FBI has images of 2 men, 1 characterized as suspect, 1 characterized as person of interest, taken from surveillance images... @ABC #Boston
Photos may be released to public today. So far, no arrests have been made and no one is in custody or being questioned. #Boston
Retweeted by ABC News
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 AM on April 18, 2013


Boston Globe writes on the two suspects whose images may be released to the public soon. Another similar article was posted above by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates.
posted by tykky at 6:48 AM on April 18, 2013


Despite my better judgment, I clicked on the Rush Limbaugh link - and thankfully was immediately distracted by the news in the sidebar that the Newtown Therapy Dogs are headed for Boston. (Lovely pictures of them at HuffPo.) So, there's another way I can help - supporting the counselors with fur. Thank you so much, you lovable, gentle, huggable sweeties.
For more information on therapy dogs and how you can get involved, check with Therapy Dogs International or Pet Partners. Many states have local groups, too, so Google “therapy dogs” and add your state. to find out if you have one.
posted by peagood at 7:02 AM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


For what it's worth, Dunkin' Donuts just announced a $100,000 donation to The One Fund Boston, and state that they have been and will continue to serve coffee and hot chocolate to the investigators.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:03 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


The NYTimes article describes both men as suspects.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:08 AM on April 18, 2013


Gawker: The Post’s ‘Person of Interest’ Is a Local High-School Track Runner
posted by BobbyVan at 7:13 AM on April 18, 2013


How the gun lobby has [obstructed] Boston’s bombing investigators (via)
posted by jeffburdges at 7:13 AM on April 18, 2013


Ah yes - that reminds me, is there a legitimate, checked fund that people overseas can donate into (I have had trouble donating to US friends' charity websites before) preferably via Paypal? There are so many scams around. I have already #runforboston and logged my miles and location and a message, but would like to send something more tangible, too. Thanks! Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask and I could find this elsewhere ...
posted by LyzzyBee at 7:15 AM on April 18, 2013


LyzzyBee, OneFund Boston
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:16 AM on April 18, 2013


The One Fund takes Paypal (backed by the Governor of Massachusetts and the Mayor of Boston).
posted by AwkwardPause at 7:17 AM on April 18, 2013


The NYTimes article describes both men as suspects.

Lots of interesting info on the investigation on page two of the article. I especially like the characterization of the investigation as squishy:
The official added: “There are several videos with people in them, and we’re looking to talk to more than one guy. It’s still very squishy but there are a lot of interesting people” the authorities want to talk to.
posted by 0 at 7:19 AM on April 18, 2013


You have to feel particularly horrible for the people who are going to spot themselves next to the suspects in those videos.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:23 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I think the cops who are sources for reporters are sharing gossip they are hearing. Normally this office gossip is useful because it starts from the investigative team. However this is a huge investigation and there is so much going on that one cop reads something on the Internet, tells another cop and like the old "telephone" game random reddit post has now become actual info from the investigation.
posted by humanfont at 7:25 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I don't think the Times prints gossip.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on April 18, 2013


roomthreeseventeen, not sure if there's still confusion on this point, but the photos referenced in the NYT are not of the same guys that are in the publicized photos.
posted by torticat at 7:30 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Post’s ‘Person of Interest’ Is a Local High-School Track Runner

The worst part:
You don't even need to leave the Post's website to understand why that's so damaging. For most of the morning, the article below their exposé on the scary Arab "persons of interest" was "Bx. idiots beat up ‘Arab' in revenge," a story about a Bangladeshi-American man who'd been assaulted in New York City the day of the marathon:
[O]ne of the men snarled, "Yeah, he's a f—king Arab," and the gang pounced, punching him on the head and body, dislocating his left shoulder and leaving him semiconscious. [...]

The victim said he went home and turned on the TV, and only then learned about the bombing and put two and two together.

"I saw the news, and then it hits me: That's why I got jumped," he said.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:30 AM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


I sneer at the old Gray Lady from time to time, but they are really on top of things in the interactive graphics department.
posted by dirtdirt at 7:32 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


roomthreeseventeen, not sure if there's still confusion on this point, but the photos referenced in the NYT are not of the same guys that are in the publicized photos.

I realize that. I thought that humanfont was talking about the NYT article. Sorry!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:32 AM on April 18, 2013


I haven't been following the events surrounding the investigation, as the speculation has been sort of frustrating.

But as I've been thinking about it, I actually have decided on who I sincerely hope is responsible; a veteran suffering from PTSD.

Anybody else will be vilified (and rightly so), but a shell-shocked vet could bring much needed attention to a huge number of people who have been completely fucked over the by the country that broke them, and hopefully start the immediate discussion of what needs to happen to get them help.

That said, we won't be that lucky. It'll be something predictable, and predictably not called domestic terrorism.
posted by quin at 7:34 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


You have to feel particularly horrible for the people who are going to spot themselves next to the suspects in those videos.

I don't get this. You're saying you/they would feel guilty for not preventing/catching/noticing the suspect? I guess I'd get a creepy, 'wow that's crazy' feeling for sure. But I don't think they should feel responsible for not pointing a dude with a backpack* that might have made a metallic clanking noise (or not) out to the cops.

Truly I'm not judging your feelings but maybe I'm missing something?

*Who, even after professional review and attention with probably dozens of man hours of analysis already, is still just *a suspect* and all...
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:34 AM on April 18, 2013


RolandofEld, I'm just talking about the creep factor.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 AM on April 18, 2013


How the gun lobby has [obstructed] Boston’s bombing investigators

That's more than a little loaded... While there are some distasteful things going on, making it look like the gun lobby is taking some active step to obstruct the investigation is feeding the outrage machine. Using "obstructed" in place of "already blocked" is more than a little misleading.

Granted, the article itself is only moderately better about this.

It is absolutely worth mentioning that there could have been an additional source of information via taggants, and that this has historically been an effort blocked by the gun industry. This is a good time to re-open the discussion, and bring the issue into the debate.

However, implication that the investigation is actively being blocked RIGHT NOW by the gun lobby, when in fact all of the relevant legislation went into place the prior millennium, is disingenuous at best.
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:37 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Driving in to work today, I listened to Glenn Beck.
Yeah, masochist.
Anyway his "news" org The Blaze is breaking news that the injured Saudi is being deported for "terrorism" and they are speculating that they are most likely connected to the guys fingered by the NYPost.

I am not going to hunt that down at the blaze or link to anything there because just listening to him was enough stupid to start my day off badly.
posted by Seamus at 7:38 AM on April 18, 2013


But as I've been thinking about it, I actually have decided on who I sincerely hope is responsible; a veteran suffering from PTSD. ¶ ... a shell-shocked vet could bring much needed attention to a huge number of people who have been completely fucked over the by the country that broke them, and hopefully start the immediate discussion of what needs to happen to get them help.

Nice idea, but nothing like that happened after we learned that veteran Timothy McVeigh was behind the OKC bombings.
posted by stopgap at 7:39 AM on April 18, 2013


quin, I disagree with you. I think if it's a vet with PTSD, that would stigmatize PTSD and veterans even more.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:40 AM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


I'm just talking about the creep factor.

Ah, ok. Totally agree. It would be creepy as hell.

It's just that I get a bit of an icky feeling everytime I hear the PSA in an airport or something saying to be sure to 'report any suspicious packages or behaviors'. I mean, I understand why they're saying that and why they search people before they get on a plane and why nail files and clippers were banned... ok not so much on the last one.

But it's still a sad situation when we are being encouraged to be paranoid about the person sitting next to us. Personally, it's another sign that we're not living in a world that facilitates trust and respect and love and all that jazz. ...and that means the people that espouse terror tactics have won.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:40 AM on April 18, 2013


Seamus: "The Blaze is breaking news that the injured Saudi is being deported for "terrorism""

Oh, my, god, people are stupid if they believe that. Wouldn't they *prosecute* if there were something terrorism related? Sheesh.
posted by notsnot at 7:41 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


But as I've been thinking about it, I actually have decided on who I sincerely hope is responsible; a veteran suffering from PTSD. ¶ ... a shell-shocked vet could bring much needed attention to a huge number of people who have been completely fucked over the by the country that broke them, and hopefully start the immediate discussion of what needs to happen to get them help.

Nice idea, but nothing like that happened after we learned that veteran Timothy McVeigh was behind the OKC bombings.

The OKC bombing didn't happen during a national discussion about PTSD. Tying something into an existing narrative is a lot easier than starting a new one.
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on April 18, 2013


Everyone should take a look at the stabilized video; it takes some of the worst video work I've ever seen and turns it into something halfway viewable. It starts at the finish line so it must have been taken by a 'professional,'' but that's really stretching the definition. Maybe it was an intern.
posted by Yowser at 7:43 AM on April 18, 2013


not sure if there's still confusion on this point, but the photos referenced in the NYT are not of the same guys that are in the publicized photos

How can we tell? Did someone officially rule them out? (Not that I think they're likely suspects, but neither was that Saudi guy and he got his apt. searched.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:44 AM on April 18, 2013


CNN lady "it's not that we misunderstood, it's that there were misunderstandings". Nice try.
Jon Stewart, please pick up the white courtesy phone. Jon Stewart...

Jon Stewart eviscerates CNN’s misreporting of Boston arrest (video).
posted by ericb at 7:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yowser, I believe the video was taken by a professional journalist.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:47 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The stabilized video shows several runners continuing to finish the race well after both bombs had gone off, people were screaming, and it was clear something was very wrong; one even holds up his race number for the cameras in a triumph while the police are swarming around. I found this very weird, but I have never run anything like that distance and perhaps you are in a "trance" or something where the outside world is blocked out?
posted by Mid at 7:47 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


God, when I finished my first full marathon I had to sit down for close to a half hour before I had any idea what was going on. I had a completely incoherent conversation with my husband over the phone. Add in that some runners were probably wearing headphones.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


It starts at the finish line so it must have been taken by a 'professional,'' but that's really stretching the definition.

It was, by definition, a chaotic scene. I'm not sure what they could have done better. Pack a stedicam just in case?

The stabilized video shows several runners continuing to finish the race well after both bombs had gone off, people were screaming, and it was clear something was very wrong

What are they supposed to do? Run?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:53 AM on April 18, 2013


...the Newtown Therapy Dogs are headed for Boston.

Also:

NBC: 'A distraction from reality': Comfort dogs bring peace to Boston victims (with video from last night's NBC Nightly News).
posted by ericb at 7:53 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


How can we tell? Did someone officially rule them out? (Not that I think they're likely suspects, but neither was that Saudi guy and he got his apt. searched.)

There is a story on Gawker this morning explaining that the "blue jacket guy" who was held up as a person of interest last night and today in the NY Post is a local high school track runner who seems totally innocent.
posted by Mid at 7:54 AM on April 18, 2013


What are they supposed to do? Run?

No, no, of course they are going to run away - but several people continued running across the finish line with arms raised, etc., clearly focused on finishing the marathon - not just getting away from danger. I'm not criticizing, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "trance"-type effect at play from the long race.
posted by Mid at 7:57 AM on April 18, 2013


There is a story on Gawker this morning explaining...

...Also, a source talking to the Boston Globe suggested that the images the FBI has are of two separate guys, one at each explosion site (not of two guys together). And also, multiple news reports say the FBI is deciding whether to make their photos public, which would be a moot point if their suspects were the ones in the NYP photos.
posted by torticat at 8:03 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Seamus: "Driving in to work today, I listened to Glenn Beck.
Yeah, masochist.
Anyway his "news" org The Blaze is breaking news that the injured Saudi is being deported for "terrorism" and they are speculating that they are most likely connected to the guys fingered by the NYPost.

I am not going to hunt that down at the blaze or link to anything there because just listening to him was enough stupid to start my day off badly"

Even worse, the token Drudge/Beck/Limbaugh regurgitator at work said this morning that "it's just like Benghazi. There's something weird going on, and they're covering it up and we'll never know what it is."
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:05 AM on April 18, 2013


it must have been taken by a 'professional,'' but that's really stretching the definition.

The video was taken by Boston.com sports producer Steve Silva. His eyewitness account is here.
posted by ericb at 8:05 AM on April 18, 2013


Ah, from that Gawker piece: As CBS' John Miller reports, neither man is a suspect in the bombings, and these are not the pictures of the possible suspects that authorities plan on releasing.

That's what I was looking for. I was worried that the officials were looking at the same two guys that the internet had already dismissed.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "trance"-type effect at play from the long race.

Yeah, I see what you're saying and it sounds likely, but I don't think it even requires a trance. They're already running, which is the sane thing to do, might as well keep running the same direction. Even holding up your number in case anyone is still checking times doesn't slow you down.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:06 AM on April 18, 2013


It was, by definition, a chaotic scene. I'm not sure what they could have done better. Pack a stedicam just in case?

Yeah, that's interesting that people would think a "professional" is capable of taking steady footage while moving. There's a reason they invented the very cumbersome steadicams and have trained operators to use them.
posted by smackfu at 8:07 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


I hope those track kids end up laughing all the way to the bank.
posted by rosswald at 8:08 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Mid: " I'm not criticizing, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "trance"-type effect at play from the long race."

Very much so. Last half-mile of a race, if you have any reserves left, you mentally block everything out and pour on the speed. At one half-marathon, I apparently waved and yelled hi to my wife 50 yards from the finish but I didn't recall it ten minutes later. You hit the finish, wonder to yourself how you could possibly still feel this good, get your medal, space blanket and water, and suddenly the tired you catches up and you don't know what the fuck. An explosion? Screaming? If your path isn't physically blocked, you don't notice.
posted by notsnot at 8:09 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I hope those track kids end up laughing all the way to the bank.

The Post's source is allegedly a law enforcement email. If true, not sure who they can sue.
posted by smackfu at 8:13 AM on April 18, 2013


I wonder whether those making the decisions to falsely report on "guilty" Arabs take pleasure in the abuse, harassment, and even beatings they are encouraging, or whether they simply don't care.

Although I haven't stepped outside of my door for three days (ever since hearing about Erik Rush encouraging the "national security ankle grab", which struck a nerve for some reason, even I have witnessed this happening. The man who delivered my dinner the other night forgot his pen so I went into the other room to get one. Apparently while I was inside my drunk hoarder of a neighbor who likes to sit in front of his open door in his underwear all day had asked him where he was from. I got back to the door just in time to hear him answer that he was from Iraq and hear the tirade of racial abuse that he received in response.

The numbers of these incidents will never be counted because they don't rise to the level of crime, but they produce incredible anxiety. I have been planning since last week to go out with my husband tonight, but I honestly don't know whether I'll feel like it if photos of a couple of white guys aren't produced before then.

These are small matters, though. At least no one is calling for a new war this time.
posted by cozy at 8:13 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


At least no one is calling for a new war this time.

Yet.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:15 AM on April 18, 2013


Emergency Planning, Speed Saved Lives After the Boston Marathon Attack
posted by Golden Eternity at 8:16 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


As CBS' John Miller reports, neither man is a suspect in the bombings, and these are not the pictures of the possible suspects that authorities plan on releasing.

I think Gawker overstates what John Miller actually said. They are linking to a Twitter user paraphrasing Miller about the men being cleared. Dylan Byers of Politico quoted Miller as saying something different: "Those are not the pictures that are going to be released today by the authorities." Here is the video of Miller's report. (Starts at 1:20)

I'm finding it a little odd that the morning is almost over and we haven't had an official statement (anonymous or not) that these two guys aren't suspects.

I know a lie can travel a long ways while the truth is still deciding whether to get out of bed, and investigators are busy, but you'd think somebody in the FBI could have a one-minute phone call with Pete Williams and tell him to definitively shoot down the New York Post story that is getting so much attention, despite the Post's severely damaged credibility.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:17 AM on April 18, 2013


The Post's source is allegedly a law enforcement email. If true, not sure who they can sue.


The source is irrelevant to a libel action. The Post published it, so they're the defendants. The affirmative defence is that it's true, not that they had good faith grounds for believing it.
posted by unSane at 8:18 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Man, people are dumb. Blue tracksuit guy isn't even Arab, he's Moroccan. Bangladeshi isn't Arab either.
posted by desjardins at 8:22 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


At least no one is calling for a new war this time.

Please. There are plenty of people who would love to invade Massachusetts. Big Chowder for one.
posted by shothotbot at 8:23 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


The source is irrelevant to a libel action. The Post published it, so they're the defendants. The affirmative defence is that it's true, not that they had good faith grounds for believing it.

Right. The Post doesn't actually make a claim and cite a source, the Post just says there is an email and reports what it said. As long as there really is an email, and they accurately reported it, I don't know where the libel would come from.
posted by smackfu at 8:25 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


BobbyVan, I agree there ought to be an official response to the Post. But seriously, if one of the guys the FBI is interested in has a Facebook page, the feds would hardly have to put out an APB asking people to help identify him. They would have already picked him up. The Post's report on this is pretty self-evidently wrong, unless the reports from all the other news media saying the FBI is still trying to identify these guys are false.
posted by torticat at 8:26 AM on April 18, 2013


The source is irrelevant to a libel action. The Post published it, so they're the defendants. The affirmative defence is that it's true, not that they had good faith grounds for believing it.

No, having good-faith grounds to believe it is an affirmative defense. A press outlet accused of libeling a private person must show that the reporter was not "negligent" - that is, that any mistake was a mistake that a "reasonable" person in the same situation would have made.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2013


Right. The Post doesn't actually make a claim and cite a source, the Post just says there is an email and reports what it said. As long as there really is an email, and they accurately reported it, I don't know where the libel would come from.

It's not a get out of jail free card. The question is whether it damaged the reputation of the person concerned. You can't just repeat a libel and hedge by saying 'so-and-so says'. I mean, sometimes you can, public interest and all, but it's more complicated than that.
posted by unSane at 8:30 AM on April 18, 2013



Re the Gawker article on The Post’s ‘Person of Interest’ Is a Local High-School Track Runner posted by zombieflanders:
You don't even need to leave the Post's website to understand why that's so damaging. For most of the morning, the article below their exposé on the scary Arab "persons of interest" was "Bx. idiots beat up ‘Arab' in revenge," a story about a Bangladeshi-American man who'd been assaulted in New York City the day of the marathon:
[O]ne of the men snarled, "Yeah, he's a f—king Arab," and the gang pounced, punching him on the head and body, dislocating his left shoulder and leaving him semiconscious. [...]

The victim said he went home and turned on the TV, and only then learned about the bombing and put two and two together.

"I saw the news, and then it hits me: That's why I got jumped," he said.

Yeah. This is why I roll my eyes when people are saying "who cares what color ethnicity they are?"

Because of this? Also, Bangladeshi people, not Arab (not that it matters, no one should be jumped). Glad the guy is OK. Or mostly OK. I mean damn. It makes me sick.
posted by sweetkid at 8:32 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


"Right. The Post doesn't actually make a claim and cite a source, the Post just says there is an email and reports what it said. As long as there really is an email, and they accurately reported it, I don't know where the libel would come from."

Actually, that's a really good way to get sued for libel — getting told something by an official (unnamed) source and reporting it without verifying it. Unless they're really specific about the story being that the email exists, and here's, incidentally, what it says, it's opening them up to some lawsuits. Especially since the subjects of the email aren't public figures.
posted by klangklangston at 8:34 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Man, people are dumb. Blue tracksuit guy isn't even Arab, he's Moroccan. Bangladeshi isn't Arab either.

Um, what? Most Moroccans are Arab. The ones that aren't are most likely Berber.

How do you know this guy isn't Arab and is a Berber?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:40 AM on April 18, 2013


Grep Epstein, a chaplain at the Humanist Community of Harvard, offers his thoughts on tragedy and community from a nontheistic perspective. A mother and daughter close to the staff of the Humanist Community were injured in the bombing, the mother losing both her legs.
Obviously when people say “I’ll pray for you” or “May God grant you strength,” they’re only expressing their own sincere convictions. But while not everyone holds those same beliefs, we all want to be acknowledged in a way that feels right to us....

Secular people place our faith in the human ability to value life over death. We believe in committing ourselves to love and care and help as indiscriminately as possible, because that is what makes our lives worthwhile. We try our best, despite our doubt, to ensure that the good will that comes from tragedy will ultimately exceed the bad.
Boston area secular groups sought to be included in today's interfaith service. I haven't heard whether they were.
posted by audi alteram partem at 8:40 AM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


NBC: 'A distraction from reality': Comfort dogs bring peace to Boston victims (with video from last night's NBC Nightly News).

Aw, man, I guess everyone has that one thing that tips them over the edge and chokes them up, and those links to the therapy dogs stories from ericb and peagood did it for me. It goes without saying that the dogs and their handlers are just the best, but I'm also so moved by the fact that therapy dogs work - that people can go through something as unimaginable as the Boston Marathon bombing or the Sandy Hook shooting, and still find comfort in the simple, jolly earnestness of an entirely different species.

The looks on the faces of the people in those links as they pet those dogs keeps tearing me up - they've seen and been through so much since Monday, and yet there remains in them whatever it is that enables people to feel a connection with, and even gain comfort from, the love of other creatures. In one way I guess it feels obvious that it would be so, but in another, it just amazes me that we can react so strongly to a dog or other animal when we're going through terrible things. I love that so much.

Dogs are awesome. But people are awesome, too.
posted by DingoMutt at 8:42 AM on April 18, 2013 [13 favorites]


Man, people are dumb. Blue tracksuit guy isn't even Arab, he's Moroccan. Bangladeshi isn't Arab either.

In the eyes of the xenophobic, I suspect that "Arab" is a synonym for "slightly darker than me".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I really wish I hadn't been proven right about the dangers of armchair investigation. Sometimes our drive to help is selfish. Sometimes our drive to know is selfish.

I am Practicing Patience (written before the Post's recent front page, so rather prescient)
posted by muddgirl at 8:44 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


In the eyes of the xenophobic, I suspect that "Arab" is a synonym for "slightly darker than me

Yes, I saw comments on the internet after the Delhi rape incident about how "this is their Arab culture, they are barbaric to women."

Like...cut out all that mess, idiot internet commenters.
posted by sweetkid at 8:44 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Man, people are dumb. Blue tracksuit guy isn't even Arab, he's Moroccan. Bangladeshi isn't Arab either.

My husband is Bangladeshi-American, too, and we lived in NYC during and after 11 Sept. I remember at one point being on the subway a few weeks afterward and an otherwise sane and friendly looking couple complimenting my husband on being a "good" hispanic immigrant rather than a "bad" muslim immigrant. People really are dumb.
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:46 AM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


In case you're wondering why the text in my comment doesn't match the text in the link, it's because Gawker has now updated their post. It now reads:
"As CBS' John Miller reports, neither man is likely to be a suspect in the bombings, and these are not the pictures of the possible suspects that authorities plan on releasing." (emphasis mine)
posted by BobbyVan at 8:49 AM on April 18, 2013



People really are dumb.

My brother's boss told him he "looked like a terrorist." We are Indian American. Luckily it was his last day (this was his last day lunch!) and it was last Friday, and it was in Virginia.

But seriously WTF. Apparently after the lunch the boss asked my brother's colleague "do you think that bothered him?"
posted by sweetkid at 8:50 AM on April 18, 2013


I'm finding it a little odd that the morning is almost over and we haven't had an official statement (anonymous or not) that these two guys aren't suspects.

But they were never suspects. Why should law enforcement have to affirmatively clear every person with a backpack that had a circle drawn around them? I don't want FBI resources to be swallowed up by an internet rumor response team.

The Post and whatever other half ass news organizations who reported on blue track suit guy and black backpack guy got their info from bad sources and didn't bother to do their research. That's on them. I don't blame law enforcement for failing to monitor and correct the media.

Bottom line: if a reputable news source hasn't ID'd these guys as POI, then they aren't. I don't need officials to come out and "clear" two kids who were never of interest in the first place. In fact, so far their names haven't appeared in national media. If I were them, I wouldn't want Brian Williams saying, oh and by the way, Murfed13 has been cleared of any involvement in this terrorist plot. The internet has moved on to blue fleece guy. How ridiculous. No one wants their names within a thousand miles of this "cleared" or not.
posted by murfed13 at 8:50 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


sweetkid: One of my brothers continually uses a slur for Arabs when discussing folks in India. I keep trying to point out that if you're going to insult them, insult them accurately, at least.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:50 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


But they were never suspects. Why should law enforcement have to affirmatively clear every person with a backpack that had a circle drawn around them? I don't want FBI resources to be swallowed up by an internet rumor response team.

If I were falsely implicated in a horrific terrorist attack, with my image blared across the front page of a major daily newspaper, and the news report cited law enforcement, I'd sure as hell want someone in law enforcement to correct the record.

And as long as investigators want the public's help in tracking down the perpetrators, they ought to be correcting false reports so as not to waste everyone's time looking for the wrong people.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


And as long as investigators want the public's help in tracking down the perpetrators

Maybe I've missed something - has any named source actually said that they want the public's help in tracking down the perpetrators? The only source I can find is "a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation" which could be one of literally hundreds of people "...and potentially lead to hundreds of false sightings that could eat up the time of law-enforcement officers."
posted by muddgirl at 8:59 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The only time racist ever seem to be concerned with "facts" is when they're explaining why something isn't really racism - the rest of the time it's a free-for-all.
posted by Artw at 8:59 AM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


forgot to finish my thought. ...which could be one of literally hundreds of people with various degrees of actual influence on the investigation.
posted by muddgirl at 9:00 AM on April 18, 2013


Anyone watching the interfaith service memorial?
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:02 AM on April 18, 2013


Why should law enforcement have to affirmatively clear every person with a backpack that had a circle drawn around them? I don't want FBI resources to be swallowed up by an internet rumour response team.

Because these people are identifiable and thus vulnerable to deeply misguided vigilantes.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:04 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yes. Patrick's great last line: "And I know that long after the buzz of Boylston street is back and the media has turned its attention elsewhere, that the grace this tragedy exposed is the best of who we are."
posted by shortfuse at 9:04 AM on April 18, 2013


Maybe I've missed something - has any named source actually said that they want the public's help in tracking down the perpetrators?

FBI appeals to public for help solving Boston Marathon bombings; over 2,000 tips received
posted by BobbyVan at 9:05 AM on April 18, 2013


And as long as investigators want the public's help in tracking down the perpetrators, they ought to be correcting false reports so as not to waste everyone's time looking for the wrong people.

Well, I hope law enforcement has been working on debunking Reddit's multi-tab google doc spreadsheet of suspects and 4chan's image dump of scientific arrows and circles, any of which could be tomorrow's headline.
posted by murfed13 at 9:06 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Law enforcement agencies pleaded Tuesday for the public to come forward with photos, videos or any information that might help them solve the twin bombings that killed three people and wounded more than 170 a day earlier.
I see a pretty clear difference between "send us any photos, videos, or information that might help" and "help us track down the perpetrator by poring over evidence and identifying suspicious people in some kind of misguided parallel investigation based on less information, fewer resources, and less training."
posted by muddgirl at 9:08 AM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


I am watching the interfaith service. Governor Patrick was great, as is the President right now.
posted by ericb at 9:08 AM on April 18, 2013


What a thrill it must have been for the Boston Children's Chorus to be accompanied by Yo Yo Ma.
posted by ericb at 9:09 AM on April 18, 2013


Well, I hope law enforcement has been working on debunking Reddit's multi-tab google doc spreadsheet of suspects and 4chan's image dump of scientific arrows and circles, any of which could be tomorrow's headline.

They're most likely going through that info and circulating it around. Which is probably how the New York Post story got started in the first place.
posted by BobbyVan at 9:10 AM on April 18, 2013


I am watching the interfaith service. Governor Patrick was great, as is the President right now.

And "Mumbles" Menino, for that matter. Clearest the man has ever spoken.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:10 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Boston's your hometown, but, we claim it a little bit too." - Obama
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:12 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Here's the part of Obama's speech that connects all of us to the victims. Or as Rand Paul calls them, "props."
posted by zombieflanders at 9:12 AM on April 18, 2013


Mayor Menino checked himself out of the hospital on Monday afternoon to attend to the tragedy and City. That's grit.
posted by ericb at 9:12 AM on April 18, 2013


For what it's worth, Dunkin' Donuts just announced a $100,000 donation to The One Fund Boston, and state that they have been and will continue to serve coffee and hot chocolate to the investigators.

I don't want to be too picky about this but isn't it illegal to give free things to police and federal officials?
posted by srboisvert at 9:15 AM on April 18, 2013


Obama: "I have no doubt you will run again. You will run again! Because that's what the people of Boston are made of...It should be pretty clear they picked the wrong city [to mess with]. Not here in Boston! Not here in Boston."

Standing ovation.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:16 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Obama addressed those injured who may be watching from their hospital beds directly. "You will run again." His speech is incredibly moving.
posted by cozy at 9:16 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think snacks and probably exceedingly inexpensive things are exempt. So, no free motorcycles and laptop computers, but free keychain fobs and snackies are okay. (I think the rules for postal employees explicitly list snacks, for instance.)
posted by rmd1023 at 9:18 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


What a thrill it must have been for the Boston Children's Chorus to be accompanied by Yo Yo Ma.

Some of them maybe might be a little less than thrilled, given what occasioned it.
posted by dersins at 9:18 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't want to be too picky about this but isn't it illegal to give free things to police and federal officials?

Years ago, I worked at a sandwich shop in Ithaca, NY that had a "cops eat free" (or at half price or some significant amount off) policy. It went on for a while, but then we were told their commanding officers said they (as in, the cops) couldn't do that anymore and had to pay full price. So at least in that town, it wasn't expressly illegal, but strictly discouraged.
posted by griphus at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2013


isn't it illegal to give free things to police and federal officials?

Illegal, no, not for police anyhow. Against policy, sometimes. There are more rules about federal officials and usually there's a minimum level at which it kicks in that would not include coffee and a sandwich.
posted by jessamyn at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2013


Bobbyvan- if the attention re: those two kids was a result of law enforcement leaks, I agree there's a responsibility to clear that up. I'm just skeptical of the fact that it was a leak, and not just the Post publicizing internet rumors.

Blue fleece guy is all over Facebook, and that's got a way higher "circulation" than the Post, and probably has nothing to do with the police, and everything to do with an over zealous lay person. Should law enforcement step in to "clear" that guy?

Who knows- maybe we have fully crossed into this place where social media controls the news, and maybe that requires some special attention from law enforcement. That just seems like a really, really big job for people who have a lot of other things on their plate right now.
posted by murfed13 at 9:21 AM on April 18, 2013


I don't want to be too picky about this but isn't it illegal to give free things to police and federal officials?

I've always heard that Waffle House gave a sizable discount to police (and maybe other uniformed public employees?) in uniform. With the idea being, as I understand it, that a place that's open 24/7 can't help but benefit from having the police around that much more often. I could be mistaken on both counts.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:22 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


That crescendo...I feel like have seen more emotion out of Obama in the last 24 hours than most of the last 5 years.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:22 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Those pictures were on the Internet yesterday morning and then they started going viral on different sites, and then different intelligence fusion centers around the country picked those up and they post them into bulletins and say any law enforcement agencies who can identify these people, we’ll take that information. Then it ends up leaking back to the newspaper, so it comes out in one big circle

What the heck does this mean exactly (from the Business Insider article)? FBI offices in Kansas City or California or wherever find these things somehow via reddit or twitter and publish them for cops in their cities, who then leak the info?
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:23 AM on April 18, 2013


Yeah, the ethics rules vary by government agency. The last agency I worked for had a rule that you could only accept food and beverage if it was consumed while standing up: so, no free lunch, but free hors d'oeuvres are OK. My current agency has a dollar value limit -- I think it's something like $50 over the course of the month. I think free coffee for cops is pretty standard everywhere, so I can't imagine there are any rules being broken here.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:23 AM on April 18, 2013


Apparently the Seattle Police Department deals with this buy having their own espresso cart that they send to major incidents.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:24 AM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Is there any update on what time they're going to release the photos?
posted by andruwjones26 at 9:26 AM on April 18, 2013


That was one very emotive speech from Obama.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 9:28 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


According to the NYT and CNN it's not certain that they are going to release photos at all.
posted by muddgirl at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2013


All of Boston thanks you Mr. President.
posted by ericb at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


As Obama sat down he wiped tears from his eyes.
posted by ericb at 9:30 AM on April 18, 2013


A month ago I read that and it left an impression on me. "That's a fucking badass quote" is basically what ran through my mind.

Badass indeed. Curious about the inscriptions, I looked at the Wikipedia page and found out about the Kahlil Gibran monument across the street which has its own inscription that I find relevant and comforting:
The monument's inscription responds to the McKim building reading "IT WAS IN MY HEART TO HELP A LITTLE, BECAUSE I WAS HELPED MUCH".
posted by audi alteram partem at 9:32 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Massachusetts Conflict of Interest Law

Specifically, the section on gifts (G.L. c. 268A, Section 3 paraphrased):
Whoever knowingly, being a present or former state, county or municipal employee or member of the judiciary, or person selected to be such an employee or member of the judiciary, otherwise than as provided by law for the proper discharge of official duty, directly or indirectly, asks, demands, exacts, solicits, seeks, accepts, receives or agrees to receive anything of substantial value* for himself for or because of any official act or act within his official responsibility performed or to be performed by him…shall be punished by a fine of not more than $50,000, or by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years, or in a jail or house of correction for not more than 2 ½ years, or both.

*The state ethics commission shall adopt regulations: (i) defining "substantial value,"; provided, however, that "substantial value" shall not be less than $50; (ii) establishing exclusions for ceremonial gifts; (iii) establishing exclusions for gifts given solely because of family or friendship; and (iv) establishing additional exclusions for other situations that do not present a genuine risk of a conflict or the appearance of a conflict of interest.
Just passed the state employee exam! I'm good until 2015.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:37 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Here's audio of Obama at the Interfaith Service.
posted by donajo at 9:37 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just occurred to me: am betting that the sellout streak at Fenway Park will now resume in earnest.
posted by Melismata at 9:44 AM on April 18, 2013


srboisvert: "I don't want to be too picky about this but isn't it illegal to give free things to police and federal officials?"

There's a whole bunch of rules for various situations, but generally if you're giving food/water/supplies/port-a-potties to workers in a disaster situation, those are construed as donations to the department, and they're generally okay. If they want to be able to write it off as a charitable donation for tax purposes, Dunkin Donuts will have to provide some documentation to the police department administrators who do that sort of thing, later on. But it's open and public and can't reasonably be construed as buying leniency for Dunkin Donuts' giant rum-running operation or attempting to purchase votes. All that Dunkin Donuts will reasonably get out of this is good publicity and a good relationship with the police.

They're also low-value individual items; around here, gifts to public officials trigger reporting requirements at $50. When I go to meet with constituents, people all the time offer me cookies or coffee or some zucchini from their garden, to thank me for taking the time. And I do the same; when we had an unusually large student gathering that required extra police to supervise, I took the cops home-made cookies because I knew they'd be out there a long time, and I've dropped cookies by my nearest firehouse and Occupy encampments too, and when it's very hot I keep water bottles on hand for my postman and UPS guy. These are just ways people express gratitude to the people who make their city work and try to provide a little care to a fellow human being who's doing work that means they're uncomfortable sometimes. I mean, I know my postman gets paid well, but I also appreciate him and I worry when it's 104*, you know?

You'd probably be surprised how often folks actually do things like this; you'll often see, if there's a car accident (for example), a local merchant will come out with coffee or bottles of water and offer them to the people involved and the first responders. We're really only hearing about this because it's such a large operation. People are mostly pretty decent.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


Yeah. The streak ended last week.

For those not familiar:
"At 794 regular season games, the streak was the longest by far in Major League Baseball, and only 20 games shy of the major professional sport record set by the Portland Trail Blazers."
posted by ericb at 9:48 AM on April 18, 2013


I recall stories of restaurants offering free meals to first responders and others in lower Manhattan after September 11.
posted by ericb at 10:00 AM on April 18, 2013


The Red Sox streak was kind of a sham (and I'm a fan of the Red Sox and (mostly) of their ownership). If it begins again, it will likely be because the Red Sox are exceeding the low expectations set for them this year.
posted by benbenson at 10:02 AM on April 18, 2013


The "Streak" wasn't real in any case. Just because scalpers buy all the tickets, that doesn't mean that the game is truly "Sold Out". Some of those "Sold Out" games looked pretty empty on TV.
posted by sideshow at 10:04 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


False streak or no, I'm doing my part to get it going again. Got tickets yesterday to see the Astros at Fenway on the 28th with my Dad and brother. Dad was really affected by this, feeling like these scumbags had tarnished our wonderful family memories of going up to see the Marathon and the morning game. He took up running in the 80's and always said he'd do Boston someday. Can't wait to go back and make some new memories.
posted by saffry at 10:06 AM on April 18, 2013


Mo Vaughn Takes Out Half-Page Ad in The Boston Globe, Says ‘You Are All Heroes in My Eyes’.
posted by ericb at 10:14 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm in a place of terrible internet........... could someone post an mp3 of Obama's remarks?
posted by kaibutsu at 10:16 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


The Red Sox streak was kind of a sham

The streak was no more or less a sham than any other streak of the kind. I agree if the point is that not every ticket was sold to every one of those games, but I disagree if the contention is that there are (were) more shenanigans going on in the streak than in similar ones. There's no denying that the Sox and Fenway have had a hell of a run.
posted by dirtdirt at 10:17 AM on April 18, 2013


Is there any update on what time they're going to release the photos?
posted by andruwjones26 at 9:26 AM on April 18 [+] [!]

This just came up: @nbcnightlynews: FBI will most likely release photos of persons of interest in Boston bombings this afternoon - @PeteWilliamsNBC
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:20 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Red Sox streak was kind of a sham

Since arriving in Dayton in 1999, the Dayton Dragons (affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds) have sold out every home game they've played. On July 9, 2011, the team had their 815th straight sell-out -- the longest streak for any professional sports team in the U.S. -- passing the previous record set by the Portland Trail Blazers from 1977–1995. The Dragons finished the 2012 season with their 913th straight sold-out game. The 2013 season opener on 11 April also sold out.

As you were.
 
posted by Herodios at 10:23 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


why are they releasing photos? I don't want to see photos until there's some degree of certainty, or whatever is passing for that right now.

The reaction to the event is starting to freak me out more than the event itself.
posted by sweetkid at 10:34 AM on April 18, 2013


why are they releasing photos?

Because they have no idea where to find the people in the photos.
posted by benbenson at 10:36 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


I agree, sweetkid. Yesterday I asked why they even admitted they had surveillance footage of the suspects. It doesn't seem apparent to me what good any public release of information does, other than perhaps calm nerves. Of course, nerves are not calm when the news is that an arrest has been made oops wait sorry we actually have nobody in custody we are still tracking people down. My guess is that some information is being released strategically while other information is simply being leaked, possibly to the detriment of the investigation.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:37 AM on April 18, 2013


Rush Limbaugh submits his entry for biggest asshole of the month.

And now I feel even worse for having made a joke about fertilizer. Sorry folks.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:41 AM on April 18, 2013


Yesterday I asked why they even admitted they had surveillance footage of the suspects.

Even that information hasn't been officially released. The New York Times, for example, only cites "a person briefed on the investigation" in their story on the surveillance footage.
posted by stopgap at 10:43 AM on April 18, 2013


why are they releasing photos?

Because they have no idea where to find the people in the photos.

I don't know if that's serious, but wouldn't they have better ways of finding the people rather than saying, "hey America, have at them?"
posted by sweetkid at 10:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I would suppose it would be the same as releasing stills of video of bank robbers to local media. There's the idea that someone will see the photo and say. "hey that's the guy from down the hall!"

I would assume when the FBI releases a photograph they have not quite the same assurance that the person is, in fact, THE person of interest. In the 24 hours since the initial talk of releasing a photograph they must have been covering every angle.
posted by readery at 10:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Any transcripts available of Obama's remarks?
posted by sonika at 10:53 AM on April 18, 2013


Transcript of Obama's remarks today (NYT)
posted by seemoreglass at 10:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Teen: I Am Not the Boston Marathon Bomber
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Meter Maid Don't Care
posted by backseatpilot at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2013 [27 favorites]


Federal authorities passed around images of Barhoun, attempting to learn more information about him, sources told ABC News.

I really think the authorities need to publicly clear this poor kid, and apologize to him and his family.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:57 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


sweetkid: why do they release pictures of missing children? I mean, they already know who they are. But they're missing, thus they need the public's help. Even if they know that the bomber is Joe Smith from Anytown, MA, they still have to find him. I doubt he's going to be sitting at home on his sofa watching the news and waiting for the SWAT team.
posted by desjardins at 11:01 AM on April 18, 2013


I wonder if part of the frenzy in finding these guys is because no one has claimed responsibility, and so no one knows if it will happen again. But either way, it's starting to seriously make me edgy.
posted by corb at 11:02 AM on April 18, 2013


Me too, corb, for that reason. And, because they now seem to think it's two people, not one, which rules out the lone nut theory.
posted by Melismata at 11:03 AM on April 18, 2013


sweetkid: why do they release pictures of missing children? I mean, they already know who they are.

This is different because vigilante justice. That is my fear here.
posted by sweetkid at 11:03 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


but you'd think somebody in the FBI could have a one-minute phone call with Pete Williams and tell him to definitively shoot down the New York Post story that is

If I was in the FBI I wouldn't do it. If it later turns out that either of these guys had, say, just one small issue with a visa, there would be United States Representatives wasting time in congress trying to spin that up into some conspiracy. It might be a good thing to do, but there's a downside due to the current toxic political environment.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:07 AM on April 18, 2013


Melismata: Me too, corb, for that reason. And, because they now seem to think it's two people, not one, which rules out the lone nut theory.

Well, to me "lone nut" doesn't literally mean a single person planned and executed the bombing, it just means that whoever did perpetrate it didn't do it in cooperation with a larger organization.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:09 AM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Right, agreed. Harris and Klebold were lone nuts.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:11 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, to me "lone nut" doesn't literally mean a single person planned and executed the bombing, it just means that whoever did perpetrate it didn't do it in cooperation with a larger organization.

Rudolph drew on the support of white supremacists and militia groups when he was a fugitive, and yet, the widespread perception is still that he was a "lone nut."
posted by saulgoodman at 11:14 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I doubt he's going to be sitting at home on his sofa watching the news and waiting for the SWAT team.

Actually, having hung with some SWAT guys (who were "on the clock" at the time) this strikes me as possibly being the most chilling proposition of all.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:17 AM on April 18, 2013


The lone nut/Terrorist distinction is perhaps not as useful as all that.
posted by Artw at 11:18 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I think it's actually harmful because, like J. Edgar Hoover's insistence that there was no such thing as the mafia for much of his career, it allows these movements to grow and gain in influence in the shadows.

How many people, for instance, even realize there are actually active groups of anti-abortion radicals like The Army of God that actively encourage abortion clinic bombings and other forms of domestic terrorism? Most people don't seem to realize there are actual influential hate-groups in this country that encourage and support acts of right-wing terrorism. Why isn't that more widely acknowledged and addressed by policy makers?
posted by saulgoodman at 11:21 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


saulgoodman: Rudolph drew on the support of white supremacists and militia groups when he was a fugitive, and yet, the widespread perception is still that he was a "lone nut."

There's a difference between carrying out an act at the behest of or with the blessing of an organization and getting support after the fact, but I agree with Artw that it is probably not a useful enough distinction to debate in depth anyway.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:21 AM on April 18, 2013


There are whole compounds dedicated to these groups that guys like Rudolph grew up in--like the Christian Identity compound discussed in the article I linked above. And yet, people act like these guys are just average joes who suddenly and inexplicably lost their shit and started killing people. It's just a very weird sort of blind-spot in our society.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:25 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


NY Post: Two men probed in Boston Marathon bombings cleared by investigators
posted by BobbyVan at 11:26 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Two men probed in Boston Marathon bombings cleared by investigators: "Our Bad"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:31 AM on April 18, 2013


Pulitzers all around.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:32 AM on April 18, 2013 [14 favorites]


Thousands of Bostonians showing up to form a human wall against Westboro Baptist Church protest (via Reddit)
posted by zombieflanders at 11:33 AM on April 18, 2013 [16 favorites]


It's a shame we all don't skip this middle man crap and have the terrorists attack the Westboro Baptists.
posted by rosswald at 11:35 AM on April 18, 2013 [18 favorites]


Apparently the Seattle Police Department deals with this buy having their own espresso cart that they send to major incidents.


Really? How odd that I've lived in Seattle my whole life and I've never seen this or been able to find corroboration of its existence.
posted by palomar at 11:35 AM on April 18, 2013


saulgoodman: when they try to investigate right-wing extremists, there's a huge amount of political blowback. A few years ago, there was a report that listed right-wing extremism as a big threat and the conservative establishment got so wound up that the DHS had to defend the report.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:36 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Really? How odd that I've lived in Seattle my whole life and I've never seen this or been able to find corroboration of its existence.

It's real. I've seen the pictures. A good friend of mine lives next-but-one to the house where the Columbia City shooting clusterfuck went down a couple weeks ago, and she took pictures. If you email me (my address is in my profile) I can share.
posted by KathrynT at 11:38 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Thousands of Bostonians showing up to form a human wall against Westboro Baptist Church protest (via Reddit)

Dammit, I thought this was gonna be one of those cases where they just say they'll be somewhere to get the attention and then never show up.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:40 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


NY Post: Two men probed in Boston Marathon bombings cleared by investigators

Is it possible that the Post is using "investigators" to mean "people on Reddit"?
posted by amarynth at 11:44 AM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


angrycat, I guess I am not as numbed by all these explosions as I may have thought, because I feel really sad to hear that.
posted by zyxwvut at 11:45 AM on April 18, 2013


Obama: I know this because there’s a piece of Boston in me. You welcomed me as a young law student across the river;

I had forgotten, somehow, that he'd been at school in Cambridge. So of course he's walked down these streets and knows first hand about the people of the city.
posted by anastasiav at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's a shame we all don't skip this middle man crap and have the terrorists attack the Westboro Baptists.

Come on. WBC is repellent. But they've never (physically) hurt anyone. They act within constitutional boundaries to make their disgusting and hateful points. Maybe we'd all be a little better off if fringe crazies were more like WBC and less like whoever might have done this.
posted by murfed13 at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


UPDATE: ‘The Onion’ Apologizes For Killing Innocent Boston Man Tom Mahoney
We Spoke Too Soon
posted by BobbyVan at 11:51 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think Boston's going to be ok - things getting back to normal for city's meter maids.
posted by raztaj at 11:53 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


the conservative establishment got so wound up that the DHS had to defend the report.

That pesky democracy!
posted by Jahaza at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2013


anastasiav: He lived in Somerville while he was at Harvard, and moved away while still owing some parking tickets to the city. One of the local news rags reported when someone suddenly paid his parking tickets around the time people were wondering if he was going to run for president, and suggested that this was proof he was going to do so.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


NY Post: Two men probed in Boston Marathon bombings cleared by investigators

“It's not like we're going to have somebody in cuffs in five minutes but it is evolving,” said a federal law enforcement source.

WTF. They keep making statements like this. "It's not like we are arresting anyone yet, but ......" Then later we here reports that they don't even have a suspect. This is a total PR clusterfuck.

Boston bombing victims mourned
In Medford, 10 miles to the north of Dorchester, anguish marked the face of Patty Campbell, mother of victim Krystle Campbell, as she appeared briefly on the front steps of her family's modest two-story home.

"We are heartbroken at the death of our daughter," Campbell told reporters, her voice shaking between sobs. "This doesn't make any sense."

Krystle Campbell had been watching the marathon alongside her friend Karen, said her grandmother Lillian Campbell, and the family initially believed that she had survived with leg injuries. But they learned Tuesday morning that it was Karen who had lived.
I think part of why not knowing anything about who did it or why is bothering me so much is the illusion that finding this out would allow me to make sense of it in some way. But it truly doesn't matter what dumbfuck did this or why. If they find the person, I really don't want to hear one word of what they have to say about anything. I just want us to do what is reasonable to prevent things like this from happening and make the world a better place in whatever way we can.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Jesus, I'm getting goosebumps imagining how different the world would be today if Bush had given a speech like that a decade ago instead of telling the world just how much it would soon be hearing of American anger.
posted by Blasdelb at 11:55 AM on April 18, 2013 [16 favorites]


5PM briefing info
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Blasdelb- me too! Stuff like this
That’s the message we send to those who carried this out and anyone who would do harm to our people. Yes, we will find you. And, yes, you will face justice. We will find you. We will hold you accountable. But more than that; our fidelity to our way of life -- to our free and open society -- will only grow stronger. For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but one of power and love and self-discipline.
would have been really nice to hear back then, in fact to me it reads
like a rebuke to all that bluster and swaggering. Whatever, it sure the hell sounds more presidential than a bunch of faux-cowboy 'smoke 'em out of their hidey-holes' guff.

no hat, all cattle?
posted by hap_hazard at 12:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


That pesky democracy!

What does democracy have to do with suppressing and politicizing accurate information? One of the bedrock principles of American democracy has always been that, in order to be functional, democracy requires an informed citizenry.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


So this isn't really my story to tell, but I wanted to pass on from my Facebook feed the message from several amputees that an amputation is not the end of an athletic, capable or happy life.

This is in response to e.g. the New York Times article linked above:
For the victims, the physical legacy could be an especially cruel one for a group that was involved in the marathon: severe leg trauma and amputations. ...

The Boston Marathon is so special, a day to celebrate athleticism and the thrill of the sport. For those runners who trained for months and now can be facing months or years or rehabilitation, and the end of their running days, the bombs took away “the thing they loved,” Dr. Yaffe said.
One commenter who has been through recovery warned that this attitude will do harm to the runners themselves. Plenty of amputees will be able to run again, and every one of the survivors will be able to take part in athleticism and the thrill of the sport again.

The broader point, I guess, is that the bombs took enough; let's not assume they took away one damn thing more than we have to.
posted by jhc at 12:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [22 favorites]


Diagram of yesterday's media reports.

(Also describes this thread?)
posted by Eyebeams at 12:14 PM on April 18, 2013


jhc, thanks for that link. I actually saw a runner with a prosthetic leg and a Boston shirt in Central Park on Tuesday night. It made me happy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure it's right to compare the responses to this and to 9/11. For starters, 9/11 involved approximately ONE THOUSAND times more people killed.
posted by rmd1023 at 12:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Advances in prosthetics will aid bomb victims

Ex-Marine amputee from Reedsburg on way to support Boston bombing victims
Ganem will be leaving in a day or two for Boston with several other staff members from the Semper Fi Fund to offer their support to victims of the Boston bombings. The nonprofit organization provides immediate financial and other support for members of the military and their families who are injured or critically ill.
posted by Golden Eternity at 12:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Dammit, I thought this was gonna be one of those cases where they just say they'll be somewhere to get the attention and then never show up.

Update from the Reddit thread:
Bpd says no indication of them coming. Then the entire crowd erupted. I just left. Awesome experience. Glad I forced my hungover ass out of bed.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


What does democracy have to do with suppressing and politicizing accurate information? One of the bedrock principles of American democracy has always been that, in order to be functional, democracy requires an informed citizenry.

The information is clearly "political" to begin with (nothing wrong with that). It wasn't supressed, you can read it here (pdf). If anything, the criticism got it more widely distributed.

The original comment complained "that the DHS had to defend the report" and being accountable for work product through public discussion and debate is certainly part of democratic government.
posted by Jahaza at 12:38 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Diagram of yesterday's media reports.

Good diagram, but what's the difference between WCVB and "ABC Boston"?
posted by Melismata at 12:38 PM on April 18, 2013


Yesterday's media circus in 90 seconds. (via)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:45 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


being accountable for work product through public discussion and debate is certainly part of democratic government

It is, but the right wing has a history of carving out exceptions for themselves.
posted by dhartung at 12:51 PM on April 18, 2013


Muslim woman harassed, assaulted in nearby Malden, MA
posted by raztaj at 1:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is the New York Post Edited by a Bigoted Drunk Who Fucks Pigs? (harsh criticism/parody of NYP coverage)
posted by zombieflanders at 1:05 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


Boston, Newtown, Challenger: How To Talk To Kids About Awful Things
posted by BobbyVan at 1:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just a short while ago I watched the press conference at Mass General. One of the surgeons they interviewed was the fellow who after running the marathon headed over to the hospital. He has been there since Monday afternoon. He was asked about how he felt that the President mentioned him in his speech this morning. The doctor wasn't aware of it and was humbled and honored by it. He hasn't really had time to watch television, but has seen snippets here and there.
posted by ericb at 1:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Meter Maid Don't Care.

That photo has been cropped. The original is here.

The vehicle is not parked on a road. It is parked on a paved path (running parallel to Charles Street) beyond the Boston Common park fence. You can see the Soldiers and Sailors Monument in the background.

It could have been on the windshield prior to parking there, but it could also be the result of a prank.

But, yet again knowing the meter maids in Boston, it could indeed be real.
posted by ericb at 1:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Apparently the Seattle Police Department deals with this buy having their own espresso cart that they send to major incidents.

Discussed recently in the Adria Richards FPP.

I can't find any confirmation of such via my Googling.

Personally, I think it's not true.
posted by ericb at 1:32 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm telling you, I have a photo of the Mobile Espresso Unit deployed at a crime scene, anyone who wants to see it can memail me. I'm getting permission from the woman who took the photo to put it up on Flickr.
posted by KathrynT at 1:42 PM on April 18, 2013


FBI confirms photo of possible 2nd bomber, possible bomb before explosion

(what a shitty photo)
posted by desjardins at 1:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thousands of Bostonians showing up to form a human wall against Westboro Baptist Church protest (via Reddit)

Nope. Reddit, again.

That photo is of part of the huge line that winded its way through the South End with people wanting to attend the service. Once they filled up the cathedral and the school across the street thousands waited outside. Friends said there were no protests at today's event. They have also posted photos on FB of the line and waiting.

Westboro has claimed it will attend the funerals of the 3 victims. Anonymous has stepped in.
posted by ericb at 1:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Who am I looking at in that photo?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:44 PM on April 18, 2013


The one guy whose face isn't blurred, I guess. In the white hat. What happened to the "clear video" they said they have?
posted by desjardins at 1:45 PM on April 18, 2013


You're looking at a very fuzzy image of a guy in a white hat. Poor image quality. If that's what they're going off of . . . eesh.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:45 PM on April 18, 2013


'm telling you, I have a photo of the Mobile Espresso Unit deployed at a crime scene, anyone who wants to see it can memail me.

Thanks for sending me the me mail. Wow.
posted by ericb at 1:45 PM on April 18, 2013


You're looking at a very fuzzy image of a guy in a white hat. Poor image quality. If that's what they're going off of . . . eesh.

But there's another guy with sunglasses and a backpack who is not blurred.
posted by Jahaza at 1:46 PM on April 18, 2013


FBI is supposed to have a presser at 5:00 p.m. (15 minutes from now). Let's hope this one isn't postponed or cancelled.
posted by ericb at 1:47 PM on April 18, 2013


Well, it's Fox, not the FBI. Who knows if this is the real picture or not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:47 PM on April 18, 2013


(but also not highlighted... this is very confusing.)
posted by Jahaza at 1:47 PM on April 18, 2013


The white male with backwards white baseball cap in that photo does match the description that was floating around yesterday.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:48 PM on April 18, 2013


Where can we watch the 5PM presser live online?
posted by TurkishGolds at 1:50 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The guy in the white cap. It is the same one we have seen on several pictures posted before here running away from the explosion site with his clothes ripped.
posted by carmina at 1:51 PM on April 18, 2013


Even "white male" seems like a stretch. Could just be a light-skinned [insert possible ethnicity here] male. Or even a female? I mean, sure, backwards white hat. Bag at feet. Beyond that, though, seems really speculative.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Live feed
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:52 PM on April 18, 2013


This CBS Boston site had a good livestream yesterday, I'm betting they'll have it up at 5 again. Also try Reuters.
posted by desjardins at 1:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


the guy in the white cap. It is the same one we have seen on several pictures posted before here running away from the explosion site with his clothes ripped.

Uh, it is?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:53 PM on April 18, 2013


It is the same one we have seen on several pictures posted before here running away from the explosion site with his clothes ripped.

Really? I don't remember that guy wearing a hat. Does anyone have a link to that video/photo series?
posted by burnmp3s at 1:53 PM on April 18, 2013


FBI confirms photo of possible 2nd bomber, possible bomb before explosion

Did they change the story? The current article says that a "high-ranking federal law enforcement official confirmed a photo of what is believed to be the second suspect." Nothing about the FBI.

I mean, I guess "federal law enforcement" is the FBI, but it's not exactly the FBI confirming anything officially.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:54 PM on April 18, 2013


My university marathon team gave out white baseball hats to all their volunteers and runners. So there were several hundred hats like that in the crowd, at least.
posted by angels in the architecture at 1:56 PM on April 18, 2013


PBS News Hour livestream
posted by desjardins at 1:56 PM on April 18, 2013


Previously, about it *not* being a guy a (different?) guy in a white hat
posted by Jahaza at 1:56 PM on April 18, 2013


carmina: The guy in the white cap. It is the same one we have seen on several pictures posted before here running away from the explosion site with his clothes ripped.
Really? I've seen those animated GIFs of that dude and the first thing I thought is, "What the hell else do you expect some dude that just got his clothes shredded but appears otherwise unhurt to do?"
posted by ob1quixote at 1:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Enhance.....ENHANCE DAMMIT!!!
posted by Trochanter at 1:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


NBC says the FBI is about to release a video of BOTH men.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:58 PM on April 18, 2013


No audio on the PBS feed. Is that intentional?
posted by TurkishGolds at 1:58 PM on April 18, 2013


well, he dropped the hat! Sorry, I couldn't find another link.

On preview, I know ob1quixote, I am just saying that those two look the same person to me.
posted by carmina at 1:59 PM on April 18, 2013


NyTimes app just told me FBI is about to release images of suspects wanted for questioning.
posted by sideshow at 1:59 PM on April 18, 2013


Audio on PBS now.
posted by TurkishGolds at 2:00 PM on April 18, 2013


videos are gonna be released too
posted by Mach5 at 2:01 PM on April 18, 2013


Just announced video will be available at FBI.GOV
posted by TurkishGolds at 2:02 PM on April 18, 2013


Diagram of yesterday's media.

I get a Balloon Juice page not found.

Here's the original link BJ references.
posted by ericb at 2:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


CBS Boston link has closed captions, and it looks like the FBI will have an ASL translator as well.
posted by desjardins at 2:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Beyond that, though, seems really speculative.

Investigators would have had the advantage of time stamps and footpath scarring, no? Co-ordinates in time and space. Right place. Right time. Right photo.
posted by de at 2:07 PM on April 18, 2013


It boggles my mind that running man could be standing so close to the blast that it fucking hulks his pants and he still is able to scoot out like a march hare. And doesn't apparently end up going to a hospital for anything.

And if he was one of the bag men, why would he stick around after dropping the bag? Unless he perhaps didn't expect the detonation when it went off (i.e., someone else had the remote)?

This whole thing is so horrible and so bizarre.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:07 PM on April 18, 2013


desjardins: "This CBS Boston site had a good livestream yesterday, I'm betting they'll have it up at 5 again. Also try Reuters."

I have Boston CBS stream going and it's running fine.

no one else go there
posted by jquinby at 2:08 PM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


If anyone is wondering about how life is just outside the crime scene: it's.... surreal. I've never been fond of the duck boats in front of Shaw's, but they've been replaced by a SWAT van and I can't wait to have them back. In addition to valets, there are (very friendly) armed soldiers in front of hotels. Copley is still closed - Boylston St is like a ghost, a very inaccessible ghost.

The helicopters were at their peak during Obama's speech, but they've been present all day and picked up again in the last half hour.

Life goes on, but there is a pain just below the surface. I ran errands and "Can I help you find anything?" was replaced with "How are you doing?" There is a clear grief - I stopped by Isis (parenting center in the Pru) and it was devoid of kids. I chatted with one of the staff, who I know from being there three times a week, and she spoke of just wanting to see kids again.

The playground had kids running, and parents who were seeking a little relief, a little normalcy, a little chat with the neighbors. Still, not the usual afternoon crowd. In addition to the normal chalk drawings and kids' names written on the ground are hearts around the word BOSTON.

I am so happy to be home and so ready to help my city heal. We are strong, we will get through this, but there's a deep wound just under the surface.
posted by sonika at 2:08 PM on April 18, 2013 [18 favorites]


Love the cop by the door. Sooo Boston.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 2:09 PM on April 18, 2013


And doesn't apparently end up going to a hospital for anything.

We have no evidence of that -- only that he was able to flee the immediate scene.
posted by dhartung at 2:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I wonder why they're running so late.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:10 PM on April 18, 2013


I assume they're busy
posted by fullerine at 2:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I wonder why they're running so late.

If it's anything like around here, it's because the copier jammed.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


Your copier code is a distinct 21-digit number that is unique to you and you only!
posted by dhartung at 2:13 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Breaking news stories remind me why I love my workplace's IT department so much and truly make me appreciate that I have the world's worst cell coverage.

Without you guys updating us, I'd be in the dark. So, thanks. In advance. And for the last few days. I'd have really gone insane without the updates, discussion and general level of civility around here.
posted by BrianJ at 2:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


If it's anything like around here, it's because the copier jammed.

I believe the FBI has my stapler.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [18 favorites]


Waiting for one of those guys by the easels to rebelliously fling off the black cover ahead of schedule.
posted by cozy at 2:17 PM on April 18, 2013


I do not envy the camera-person with the itchy arm.
posted by psylosyren at 2:18 PM on April 18, 2013


Does that podium say "Sheraton"? Hotels have big fancy podiums with the name of the hotel on them?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:18 PM on April 18, 2013


Ooh, one minute warning for the press conference to start.
posted by cozy at 2:18 PM on April 18, 2013


This dude on CBS is talking about how the FBI will plug leads into Orion Software. Sounds cool.
posted by TurkishGolds at 2:18 PM on April 18, 2013


One minute warning for the presser to start.
posted by ericb at 2:18 PM on April 18, 2013


. . . In addition to valets, there are (very friendly) armed soldiers in front of hotels.

Friendly, yes, and so young. When one of them checked my bag out at the T stop, that suddenly struck me.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:19 PM on April 18, 2013


Hotels have big fancy podiums with the name of the hotel on them?

Not necessarily, but sometimes they have lecterns on their podiums with the name of the hotel on them.
posted by dhartung at 2:20 PM on April 18, 2013


Here we go.
posted by ericb at 2:20 PM on April 18, 2013


Is there a running liveblog of the conference somewhere?
posted by troika at 2:21 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm pretty sure that some corner of the Internet is going to think Whitey Bulger is behind this if CBS doesn't stop mentioning it.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


troika: "Is there a running liveblog of the conference somewhere?"

I think this it
posted by jquinby at 2:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [9 favorites]


Is there a running liveblog of the conference somewhere?

I'm pretty sure you're soaking in it.
posted by penduluum at 2:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Listening to audio. Booooo I need the photos!
posted by Big_B at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013


ZOOM

ENHANCE
posted by zombieflanders at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Good imagery of two people who walked in together and set down backpacks.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013


Reddit and 4Chan just got told.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Oh man, it's a guy with a backwards hat, just like CNN said the other day. I hope they didn't tip him off to turn it around.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Chalk one up for the surveillance state.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013


They say there are photos of the two suspects on fbi.gov. but it's not loading for me. You'd think they'd have the computer power for a moment like this.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013


wow seeing those security cam vids is like watching something from Person of Interest
posted by OHenryPacey at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Photos of two suspects released, available (they say) on FBI.gov. Two young white-looking guys wearing black and white. they emphasize that only the photos provided by the FBI should used for ID purposes (!) as using other photos results in so many unecessary alarms.
posted by Miko at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2013


I appreciate the plea to only consider the FBI footage as official and to disregard any other image.
posted by CancerMan at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


They had better hope the police get to them before some kind of mob forms...
posted by rosswald at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2013


What's up with that video? It seems to be doubling up each frame.
posted by smackfu at 2:25 PM on April 18, 2013


NY Times Live Blog
posted by Jahaza at 2:25 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Two young white-looking guys wearing black and white.

You think so? I'm getting an "indeterminate ethnicity" vibe more than white.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:26 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


"We consider them armed and dangerous."
posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on April 18, 2013


The latest casualty of the bombings seems to be the FBI's web servers.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:26 PM on April 18, 2013


From Guardian liveblog:
The FBI agent in charge of the investigation, Rick DesLauriers, begins the news conference, and announces a public appeal for two suspects. He says: "Within our last day or so, we initially developed a single person of interest. Not knowing whether that person was working alone or in concert, we obviously worked with extreme purpose to make that determination."

DesLauriers says all arms of the FBI worldwide worked to identify all potential suspects. "The FBI developed a second suspect. Today we are enlisting the public's help to identify the suspects." He unveils placards showing the suspects. "Suspect 1 is wearing a dark hat. Suspect 2 is wearing a white hat."

DesLauriers says suspect 2 put down a bag in front of Forum restaurant "The two walked together in the crowd on Boylston [street]", he says.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


bahahaha INFOWARS DOT COM FOLKS
posted by Countess Elena at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


OK, maybe. I wouldn't want to stand firm on that with such bad photos.
posted by Miko at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Direct link: here. Photo-specific page here.
posted by hoople at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Not terribly helpful, but here's a screenshot of the photos from the press release. Presumably the ones on fbi.gov will be better quality, though I can't get it to load either.
posted by ashirys at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


What was that guy just saying that was cut off during his question?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Random crazy dude shouting questions..."Next question"
posted by zombieflanders at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Infowars!
posted by smackfu at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


I can't tell the ethnicity either, but they appear very young, like late teens or early twenties.
posted by cozy at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Hecklers?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Here's the official video from the FBI. [Youtube link]
posted by BobbyVan at 2:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Unfortunately, I think the suspects look Arab enough to uncork mob mentality towards the community. Might be, might not be.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


And a random New York Post defender jumps in.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:28 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone seems to screaming a domain name? Something dot com.
posted by shortfuse at 2:28 PM on April 18, 2013


What was that guy just saying that was cut off during his question?

"We have photos up on infowars.com..." False flag douchebags.
posted by smackfu at 2:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


And the photos: http://www.fbi.gov/news/updates-on-investigation-into-multiple-explosions-in-boston/photos
posted by gubenuj at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2013


Coral Cache of the FBI photos.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Unfortunately, I think the suspects look Arab enough to uncork mob mentality towards the community.

Dunno, looks like random white dudebros to me.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Some guy was repeatedly trying to get in "Infowars". Clearly heard him say "we will expose your lies." Alex is swinging for the fences on this one! He must have the government documents to prove it!
posted by Big_B at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2013


The pictures aren't very good -- but they are certainly good enough that if you knew them, you'd recognize them.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm surprised that they let infowars reporters into these hearings. I mean, we all know they're going to disrupt it. It's almost like they wanted him there. It must be the Lizard People! Quick, buy bitcoins!
posted by allen.spaulding at 2:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


"We have photos up on infowars.com..." False flag douchebags.

Thank you. False flag douchebags indeed. Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 2:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah.

I'm watching this on BBC TV and they called the hats "basketball hats."
posted by Miko at 2:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [23 favorites]


Bob Orr (CBS) says authorities are "leaning towards" this being a "domestic attack".
posted by BobbyVan at 2:31 PM on April 18, 2013


White Hat has a beak on him, don't he?
posted by restless_nomad at 2:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


I would kind of like to know what Captain Conspiracy Pants was trying to say, but even more so I want to know how he got into the press conference, and got to be the second questioner. Isn't that supposed to be a privilege?
posted by Countess Elena at 2:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Ok, from the Youtube vid, it looks like they crossfaded between frames on the security camera since the framerate wasn't very good.

That is dumb.
posted by smackfu at 2:31 PM on April 18, 2013


> What was that guy just saying that was cut off during his question

"Why are you denying that there's bombs [were there?] Monday morning, we've got photographs on [shouty mumble].com, folks."
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:32 PM on April 18, 2013


Dunno, looks like random white dudebros to me.

Speaking as someone who knows a very large number of white dudebros and ambiguously brown dudebros, these guys look like ambiguously brown dudebros to me. For whatever that's worth.
posted by phunniemee at 2:32 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm watching this on BBC TV and they called the hats "basketball hats."

Adorable!


Dunno, looks like random white dudebros to me.

Oh the irony if they are prolific redditors.

[not-redditist]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:32 PM on April 18, 2013


Miko, you don't want to lose your hat during a lay-up. That's why it's backwards from a baseball hat.
posted by dhartung at 2:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


"findbostonbombers" subreddit suspends posting of all pictures except the ones the FBI released just now. (post)
posted by desjardins at 2:33 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


and got to be the second questioner. Isn't that supposed to be a privilege?

I think he was he first at the last press conference I saw! Sort of unbelievable.
posted by jamesonandwater at 2:33 PM on April 18, 2013


Guardian liveblog (has photos and is loading for me):
DesLauriers warns that photos of the suspects, on FBI.gov, should be the only ones used in attempts to ID them. "We know the public will play a critical role in identifying and locating these individuals," DesLauriers says. He says no bit of information is too small.

DesLauriers warned the public not to approach the suspects. "We consider them to be armed and extremely dangerous. No one should approach them. No one should attempt to apprehend them on their own."

He urges members of the public to call 1-800-CALL-FBI, 800-225-5334. Or visit the web site bostonmarathontips.fbi.gov. The FBI has posted this video on YouTube.
and then
DesLauriers said that identifying those responsible for the Boston bombings is now the FBI's "highest priority", DesLauriers says. "This is our focus now."

The only one observed planting what we believe to be the device is suspect number 2, with the white cap, he says. "At this time these are people of interest to the FBI," he says. After the attack, suspect two, in the white cap, "proceeded west on Boylston street, and that's all we know right now," DesLauriers says.

Here is a photo of the two suspects provided by the FBI. Suspect 1 is at left.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:34 PM on April 18, 2013


zombieflanders, for the sake of world peace I hope you are right. I used to live on the very block in Malden where that lady reported she was jumped yesterday. It's so hard to imagine, considering how many Muslims, how many people of all nationalities live there.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:34 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm watching this on BBC TV and they called the hats "basketball hats."

They're not immediately recognizable to me, but I expect someone will be able to figure out exactly what kind of hats they are. They don't really look like baseball team hats (yes, I understand that "baseball hat" is the generic term.)
posted by Jahaza at 2:35 PM on April 18, 2013


Of all the images of the crowds I've seen on reddit and at other places - these seem to be the worst resolution. Huh.
posted by Big_B at 2:35 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


White Hat has a beak on him, don't he?
I've been trying to think of a way of saying that which doesn't sound all loljews but still indicates the vastness of the dude's beak.
I'm surprised they haven't been able to track him down just by asking random people, "what's the name of the biggest-nosed fucker you know?"
posted by fullerine at 2:35 PM on April 18, 2013 [32 favorites]


They're not immediately recognizable to me, but I expect someone will be able to figure out exactly what kind of hats they are.

The reddit detectives think it has a PGA logo on it.
posted by jamesonandwater at 2:36 PM on April 18, 2013


Seems as though a crowd-sourced combing through scene photos, in search of BETTER photos of these guys, would be very helpful. I hope Reddit's "suspension of posting other pics" doesn't stop that effort.
posted by Unified Theory at 2:37 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


I would kind of like to know what Captain Conspiracy Pants was trying to say, but even more so I want to know how he got into the press conference, and got to be the second questioner. Isn't that supposed to be a privilege?

I listened to all the press conferences on Boston radio before I left on my trip, and there was a wingnut like that in each and every one. At one of them with Deval Patrick, either the day of or the morning after, a wingnut shouted something like "is there a chance these were planted by the government?" to which Deval Patrick, after a juicy pause, said "No" and moved right on.

In any case, I think the wingnuts are coordinating. I'm not sure how they're credentialling press, but it's kind of possible sometimes to get credentials for blogs that sound importantly titled depending on how an event is being run. I guess there are strategies for this.
posted by Miko at 2:37 PM on April 18, 2013


Guy on CBS: "Let's find these animals and hunt them down like the dogs that they are."

Um, did the FBI really express 100% certainty that these are the perpetrators? Or just that they are suspects wanted for questioning? WTF, CBS dude??
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:37 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Here's an Imgur gallery of the low res pictures. I'm slowly loading the high res images.

http://imgur.com/a/0HLWQ


(Much like wikipedia and footnotes, you shouldn't really believe me posting this images, and should check them against the FBI's page at your leisure. Too much bad information out there right now.)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:38 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


What was the name of that magic de-blurring thing that got linked in an AskMe a while back? Like an actual Zoom-Enhance tool?
posted by ob1quixote at 2:38 PM on April 18, 2013


I hope Reddit's "suspension of posting other pics" doesn't stop that effort.

The ban is on pictures not of the FBI's two suspects. It doesn't have to be those specific images.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:39 PM on April 18, 2013


Maybe it's a fake nose? It truly is comically large.
posted by cozy at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Um, did the FBI really express 100% certainty that these are the perpetrators?

Well, only a court of law can determine that. But they did confirm they were suspects, not just people they wanted to question.
posted by Miko at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2013


Note at reddit says "only images that may contain the fbi's suspects" which makes more sense than just relying on these 11 images.
posted by Big_B at 2:40 PM on April 18, 2013


Guy on CBS: "Let's find these animals and hunt them down like the dogs that they are."

Um, did the FBI really express 100% certainty that these are the perpetrators? Or just that they are suspects wanted for questioning? WTF, CBS dude??

I think that's a not-too-infrequent response to an event like this bombing. One is completely helpless to defend against it and in their frustration the need for revenge bubbles to the forefront. We've seen some of that exact same behavior in this very thread.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 2:41 PM on April 18, 2013


The reddit detectives think it has a PGA logo on it.

I think if we really studied it, it would be clear that golf generates far more aggressive and violent thoughts than videogames or violent movies. At least, that's my club tossing experience.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:41 PM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


Re: Brown, white, whatever:

I can't tell if the FBI is as mixed up as to the characteristics of these guys as we are, or if they just haven't released that info yet. What I see as white and phunniemee sees as brown could just be the way our monitors are set up, and I'm sure it's the same for everyone looking at the pictures and video.

Or, quite possibly, it could actually be both. I'm "Caucasian" on all the government forms, but of Italian and Ukrainian heritage. I've been mistaken for Iranian, Mexican, Indian (both US and Asian), Tunisian, and Egyptian, all by members of those ethnicities just depending on how much sun I've got. I've been getting sideways stares from the Anglo-Saxon tourist folk all week.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:42 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Oh crap those are the same yellow balloons.
posted by Big_B at 2:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


reddit reckons the other hat is this one
posted by pixie at 2:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Drinky Die - apparently the black hat is also a golf-related hat. Weird.
posted by desjardins at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm glad we have some sequences of images showing them walking - for such blurry images, the gait will be a huge clue for anyone who knows one of these guys.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think now that Reddit is focused there's a decent chance they will get this thing done. I'm watching closely.
posted by murfed13 at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's the "high res" pictures. It looks many of them were just digitally enhanced, but you can click to see them larger.

http://imgur.com/a/15VyG


(Same disclaimer. Don't necessarily believe random images that random people (me) are posting on websites. We've had enough of that this week.)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


The timestamp on one of the photos shows 14:37:39, which assuming the clock is correct would have been about 12 minutes before the bombs went off.
posted by burnmp3s at 2:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Trending on Twitter: Brofiling.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:49 PM on April 18, 2013 [25 favorites]


@jamisonfoser: Maybe sit the rest of this story out, CNN. RT @DCPlod: CNN: "You can't tell from the video if they're Americans."
Please be an Anchorman reference. I think we all need the laughs.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Seems as though a crowd-sourced combing through scene photos, in search of BETTER photos of these guys, would be very helpful.

Yeah, this is the kind of thing crowd-sourcing tends to excel at.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2013


I think now that Reddit is focused there's a decent chance they will get this thing done. I'm watching closely.

I don't understand how Reddit's threads are organized. Is there a Reddit thread that can be linked to, where all the important activity is going on?
posted by Unified Theory at 2:53 PM on April 18, 2013


CNN: "You can't tell from the video if they're Americans."

This was really said on air. By two people. I just finished emailing it in horror to a friend! This is the first time I've had the TV news on since the bombing happened and I've already had to mute it.
posted by something something at 2:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [17 favorites]


I don't understand how Reddit's threads are organized. Is there a Reddit thread that can be linked to, where all the important activity is going on?

There's a subreddit (like in a forum) with a bunch of threads at /r/findbostonbombers.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN: "You can't tell from the video if they're Americans."

I'm embarrassed to say that my first instinct was to think to myself: "what's wrong with that comment?" Yeesh.
posted by BobbyVan at 2:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't see how anyone can really tell if they are 'brown' or 'white' or what. Also what zombieflanders said - people are going to see what they want to see.
posted by sweetkid at 2:57 PM on April 18, 2013


Reporter on WBUR was just asked if the POIs look Caucasian. He said that's a touchy subject and didn't answer the question.

Spot on.
posted by seemoreglass at 2:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Unified Theory, start here but they have about 90 duplicates for the photos so it is a mess. Sort by new/rising/top as needed.

This one is interesting, someone spotted one of the two suspects in their own photo.
posted by pixie at 2:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Is there a Reddit thread that can be linked to, where all the important activity is going on?

This seems to be the one the reddit detectives are organising in. Just be cautious about clicking any links without takinga deep breath, there have been some seriously disturbing photos being "analyzed" on that subreddit in the last day or two.
posted by jamesonandwater at 2:58 PM on April 18, 2013


Maybe it's a fake nose? It truly is comically large.

Hey, now, some of us have totally natural comically large noses.
posted by cortex at 2:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [17 favorites]


With a beak like that isn't suspect #2 something of a flight risk?
posted by hoople at 2:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [13 favorites]


"wow seeing those security cam vids is like watching something from Person of Interest"

I just finished watching last night's episode of The Americans (which is set in 1981) and thought of this line: "His gym has exterior video surveillance -- don't ask me why."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:59 PM on April 18, 2013


cortex: "Maybe it's a fake nose? It truly is comically large.

Hey, now, some of us have totally natural comically large noses."

Yup... My nose is at least as large as the suspect's. My friends ask me if I store my Jewgold up there...
posted by Strass at 3:00 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


> I'm embarrassed to say that my first instinct was to think to myself: "what's wrong with that comment?" Yeesh

Well, it's true! You can't.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:00 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


people are going to see what they want to see

So we haven't ruled out the protean creature(s) yet?
posted by burnmp3s at 3:01 PM on April 18, 2013 [17 favorites]


Hey, now, some of us have totally natural comically large noses.

No offense was intended to those with a natural abundance of nose. But black hat has this weird pointy goatee thing going on too. With that many cameras around, it would have been smart for them to put on a little facial disguise.
posted by cozy at 3:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


ob1quixote: What was the name of that magic de-blurring thing that got linked in an AskMe a while back? Like an actual Zoom-Enhance tool?
I found the AskMe I was looking for, but actually applying it to this problem is a little beyond me and I don't have time to learn how at the moment.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:04 PM on April 18, 2013


> No offense to those blessed with a natural abundance of nose

Suspect #2 has an alleged natural abundance of nose.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:05 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm telling you, the nose plays.
posted by ceribus peribus at 3:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Husband just came home, took a look at the video and said "Anarchists."
posted by desjardins at 3:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, it's true! You can't.

I mean, it seemed like an obvious, unobjectionable observation. Then I realized I was subconsciously conflating "American" with "white."

The apparent ethnicity here is sort of meaningless. Remember the guy who blew up the bus full of Israelis in Bulgaria? He had the "bro" look as well. Just a cautionary note to say that the photographic evidence is way too thin to draw any useful conclusions from appearances alone.
posted by BobbyVan at 3:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Husband just came home, took a look at the video and said "Anarchists."

My two year old cousin walked halfway across a room and said "da da poo poo". About as germane.
posted by threeants at 3:08 PM on April 18, 2013 [19 favorites]


> Husband just came home, took a look at the video and said "Anarchists."

In PGA hats?
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [8 favorites]


Husband just came home, took a look at the video and said "Anarchists."

What does that even mean? Is this 1918?
posted by Miko at 3:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [27 favorites]


CNN: "You can't tell from the video if they're Americans."

I'm embarrassed to say that my first instinct was to think to myself: "what's wrong with that comment?" Yeesh.

Wait is that what they're doing in that comment? Conflating 'American' with 'white'? Like instead of saying 'white or black or whatever' they are saying 'American or not'?
posted by sweetkid at 3:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Husband just came home, took a look at the video and said "Anarchists."

In PGA hats?

It's a perfect false flag operation!
posted by zombieflanders at 3:10 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


I found the AskMe I was looking for, but actually applying it to this problem is a little beyond me and I don't have time to learn how at the moment.

That particular technique only works for photos where the camera was moving and you get a motion blur effect. You guess at a path that the camera followed while the photo was taken and "undo" that motion to unblur it. The FBI photos are from a static security camera, so the problem is that they were super low resolution to begin with (so that the camera could store hours of them all the time). There might be techniques to "upscale" the low resolution photos somehow but it would have to use different sorts of techniques than the one from that AskMe post.
posted by burnmp3s at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Anarchists."

Man, does your husband ever hang out with the wrong kind of anarchists. The ones I know just do vegan potlucks and argue for hours about grammatical nitpicks in politely worded letters to local politicians.
posted by cmyk at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [38 favorites]


It's true, you can't tell if they're Americans, because Americans can look like anything.
posted by Miko at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [24 favorites]


I sure hope da da is in the bathroom.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


In PGA hats?

Oh, libertarians, then.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [17 favorites]


NPR just pointed out that one appears to be left handed, so there's that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:12 PM on April 18, 2013


Daddy plays golf.
posted by rosswald at 3:12 PM on April 18, 2013


lefties. I knew it.
posted by Big_B at 3:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [14 favorites]


^ Miko's got it.
posted by BobbyVan at 3:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


In PGA hats?

Putt Where Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Tournament Regulations
posted by cortex at 3:13 PM on April 18, 2013 [10 favorites]


I'm going to beat up the first left-handed anarchist golfer I see.
posted by perhapses at 3:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


The FBI photos are from a static security camera, so the problem is that they were super low resolution to begin with

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever. Or maybe it's sneakers. Or Crocs. We're not entirely sure, but Reddit will find out in 15 minutes.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


What if #2 is just an extremely loyal caddy?
posted by hoople at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [29 favorites]


I can't tell if the FBI is as mixed up as to the characteristics of these guys as we are, or if they just haven't released that info yet.

I think maybe they just don't want to prime anyone to assume one or the other because it might change the way people think about them if they are categorized - by which I mean it might induce people to rule out people they shouldn't. I agree also that the categories are pretty flabby. I am always amazed, as I was this week, when someone gets picked on for "looking Arab." I don't even know what "looking Arab" is supposed to be - growing up in NJ, there were people from all kinds of places, including places in Europe, who could fit whatever the criteria are for that. It's confusing to me. I think it's better that the FBI offer no racial identifiers.
posted by Miko at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


So, just trying to sort this out, is the first series of photos from around the site of the first explosion (yellow balloons) and the second, with white-hat only, from the site of the second? And they (reportedly) have video of white-hat dropping his bag, but haven't released that?
posted by torticat at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2013


I mean, it seemed like an obvious, unobjectionable observation. Then I realized I was subconsciously conflating "American" with "white."

It's an amazing (self-)revelation, isn't it? I had approximately the same realization a year or two ago, and I'm still trying to figure out what to do with it.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The thing about the golf hats - I immediately thought of where would you get one (because there probably isn't a golf course anywhere near downtown Boston), and where I've seen tons of these. Ross. Marshalls. This strikes me as "hey we should get hats" and stopped into one the second rate clothing retailers. Turns out there is a Marshalls at 500 Boylston.
posted by Big_B at 3:18 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


Romney is on CNN talking about how much God loves us. WTF.
posted by homunculus at 3:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I guess the helicopters were part of security for the press conference - I'm about 3 blocks from the Sheraton and they've stopped now.
posted by sonika at 3:19 PM on April 18, 2013


There is a history of anarchist political violence in America, but you'll need a flux capacitor to get video of a suspect. It's like being worried that the Whigs will retake Congress.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [9 favorites]


I don't even know what "looking Arab" is supposed to be

My ex-brother-in-law was Greek by ethnicity, but apparently Arab-looking enough to ALWAYS get hassled at airports and border crossings (even before 9/11). Last I heard, he was living and working in China. Unclear what assumptions get made about his appearance there.

Just don't lend him money.
posted by philip-random at 3:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


You can also find them at the numerous thrift shops around. But I also don't know how much planning they took into planning their clothing, to try to look as bland as possible.
posted by spinifex23 at 3:23 PM on April 18, 2013


Big_B, call the tipline and mention that. Might be helpful.
posted by cmyk at 3:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


This person's tweets are thought-provoking (edited for formatting)

Ayesha A. Siddiqi ‏@pushinghoops
white privilege is the freedom to live without being seen in terms of racial membership

a brown kid in a hoodie is threatening enough to inspire murder but white guys in baseball caps can be terror suspects + remain 'just bros'

white people it must be amazing that even as a terror suspect you're still endearingly charming! just bros, having a laugh

hard to laugh at 'brofiling' when the premise that seems like a joke for white people is a daily reality for muslim and nonwhite Americans

when the suspect is white we get bro jokes, when the suspect is brown people like Heba Abolaban & Abdullah Faruque are attacked in public
posted by desjardins at 3:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [36 favorites]


I'll bet the folks working the tipline could use some hugs. And beer.
posted by SassHat at 3:25 PM on April 18, 2013


FBI said the second guy was "observed planting the bomb", which doesn't necessarily mean video. via
posted by annsunny at 3:25 PM on April 18, 2013


While watching the same 3 second video clip over 27,412 times within 10 minutes, one thing that jumps out is how everyone walking around them has their head down and is looking at their phones.

I'll bet nobody noticed them. Because nobody notices anything but the Matrix.
posted by kinetic at 3:26 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


I traveled in Iraq with an Italian New Yorker, who never got a second glance or was ever assumed to be anything other than a local, even with his blond "wife." A great thing about Americans -- we look like everyone!
posted by cyndigo at 3:26 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


And they (reportedly) have video of white-hat dropping his bag, but haven't released that?

I suspect The Lord & Taylor video from across the street showing the white bag in front of the wooden temporary barrier and the green postal box shows him leaning over and dropping it.
posted by ericb at 3:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


cmyk: "Big_B, call the tipline and mention that. Might be helpful."

I thought about it at first, and decided it would be silly. But you're right. You never know what could help.

Done. Thanks.
posted by Big_B at 3:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


I'll bet the folks working the tipline could use some hugs. And beer.

A friend of mine worked the LAPD tip line during the Chris Dorner thing. And yeah, people call in with some craaaaaazy shit.
posted by sideshow at 3:29 PM on April 18, 2013


That is a creepy point about phones, kinetic, and one I've never heard mentioned as a publicsafety risk factor before. It is a really critical thing for public security, the informal "policing of the streets' that Jane Jacobs identified as essential to a free society and the most effective deterrent against crime. Our heads are halfway elsewhere all the time now. How are we going to notice what's going on?
posted by Miko at 3:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


So now that the grownups have said, "it's these guys" and people are digging through all their photos, I wonder how quickly the available quality of picture will go from "blurry security video" to "drivers license" to "uncle Ron's Christmas pictures" to "cover of National Geographic".
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 3:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


White Hat has a beak on him, don't he?

I got relatives with a similar schnozz... good scottish stock.
posted by Slap*Happy at 3:33 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Are you kidding? Those tweets aren't thought provoking. No one finds potential bombers to be CHARMING. I've been hoping since it happened (as a white American) that the suspect(s) would turn out to be white. Yes that says something, that I hope they're white so some other ethnicity doesn't get broadly punished for what someone else did, but those tweets are crap.
posted by haveanicesummer at 3:33 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


While watching the same 3 second video clip over 27,412 times within 10 minutes, one thing that jumps out is how everyone walking around them has their head down and is looking at their phones. I'll bet nobody noticed them. Because nobody notices anything but the Matrix.

Really interesting point. With so many people constantly glued to their mobile devices, eyes on the street, well, aren't.
posted by threeants at 3:39 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I suspect The Lord & Taylor video from across the street showing the white bag in front of the wooden metal temporary barrier and the green postal box shows him leaning over and dropping it.

On second thought, probably not. The photo of the white bag looks like a paper bag inside a plastic bag.
posted by ericb at 3:39 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone on reddit: Oh my gosh.... I've seen both of these men. I work at a motel 6 in Massachusetts. I think saw them yesterday checking in. How do I give this information to the FBI?
posted by pixie at 3:41 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Really interesting point. With so many people constantly glued to their mobile devices, eyes on the street, well, aren't.

Or it could be that people waiting around at the end of a marathon were using their mobile devices to check the BAA's website for an estimate of when their friends/loved ones/associates might be crossing the finish line so they could get into a good position to cheer them on.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:42 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Someone on reddit: Oh my gosh.... I've seen both of these men. I work at a motel 6 in Massachusetts. I think saw them yesterday checking in. How do I give this information to the FBI?


Whoah.
posted by unSane at 3:43 PM on April 18, 2013


Well, it was good to get this update, but now we start with a whole new round of speculation by, well, just about everyone (especially the cable news idiots). Already I have probably heard 100 scenarios (if not more) from the news knuckleheads, and it has only been an hour or so. Stuff like “well they can’t take public transportation anymore because we know who they are” and so on and so forth. Gee....deep.

I hope Speculation v2.0 is a bit more nuanced and certain news organizations (read: NY Post) act more responsibly this time.
posted by lampshade at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2013


Because nobody notices anything but the Matrix.

And these horrible double-edged swords everyone was using took all those photos too!
posted by dhartung at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Someone on reddit: Oh my gosh.... I've seen both of these men.

The chances that that is not a troll or joke are roughly the same as that the Sabres will win the Stanley Cup this year. I love all the redditors going UPDATE PLEASE.
posted by Eyebeams at 3:46 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Speaking of brofiling, I preemptively assume everyone on reddit is full of shit unless I can verify elsewhere.
posted by desjardins at 3:46 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


So CBS News comes out of yesterday's mess unscathed. This tweet from yesterday afternoon is right on: "Man sought as possible suspect is WHITE MALE, wearing white baseball cap on backwards, gray hoodie and black jacket."
posted by stopgap at 3:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Or it could be that people waiting around at the end of a marathon were using their mobile devices to check the BAA's website for an estimate of when their friends/loved ones/associates might be crossing the finish line so they could get into a good position to cheer them on.

I'm not judging (or, obviously, even vaguely knowing) the reasons people were looking at their phones. It's just a fact that people spend a lot of time looking at mobile devices, and this has implications.
posted by threeants at 3:48 PM on April 18, 2013


Turns out there is a Marshalls at 500 Boylston.

There are 18 sporting goods store in the Back Bay.
posted by ericb at 3:49 PM on April 18, 2013


I also like that the redditors believe the two options are 1) this is it! the clue that will bust this case wide open! or 2) troll.

One very likely scenario is that the poster does really work at a motel 6 in Mass and really did see two guys check in yesterday, but that they were not THESE guys.
posted by peep at 3:49 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Not a big Reddit fan but just to be fair to them, the active r/ does state:

r/FindBostonBombers is a discussion forum, not a journalistic media outlet. We do not strive, nor pretend, to release journalist-quality content for the sake of informing the public.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:49 PM on April 18, 2013


But black hat has this weird pointy goatee thing going on too. With that many cameras around, it would have been smart for them to put on a little facial disguise.

Maybe that is the facial disguise.
posted by limeonaire at 3:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Speaking of brofiling, I preemptively assume everyone on reddit is full of shit unless I can verify elsewhere.

A little disappointing to hear that from someone I respect. Reddit is a big place; check out my profile if you are interested in seeing a better side of it.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 3:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Maybe that is the facial disguise.

Is it made of felt?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 3:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sorry, the "eyes on the street" thing is interesting and valid in its own right, but I just realized it's a major derail that I'm helping perpetuate, so I'll note that and quit it. It's not like if nobody had been looking at their phone they would have been all, "j'accuse!" and pulled the bomb out of the guys' backpacks. There was no real reason to think they looked suspicious at all.
posted by threeants at 3:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is it made of felt?

Are you aware of shaving?
posted by stopgap at 3:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Someone upthread mentioned a goatee but what I'm seeing is more like a shadow on the inside of the Sideburn Mcblurry's jacket.
posted by mcrandello at 3:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Well, if the one guy does turn out to have been wearing a Gandalf-level fake nose, that would be suspicious.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Honestly, first thing I thought of seeing the profile of him (on that FOX site earlier in the day) was that it was an Anonymous mask. Clearly not, but it gave me pause.
posted by dhartung at 3:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I wish there was a map estimating where the security cameras were that took the videos. It would help me understand it spatially. Are they shown in sequence?
posted by annsunny at 3:58 PM on April 18, 2013


"what's the name of the biggest-nosed fucker you know?"
Is that really the biggest nose anyone here has ever seen? I ask because, uh, personal reasons. :(
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:00 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


> I wonder who CNN's source was for "darker-skinned or black male with a possible foreign accent"?
posted by Eyebeams at 4:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]



That is a creepy point about phones, kinetic, and one I've never heard mentioned as a publicsafety risk factor before. It is a really critical thing for public security, the informal "policing of the streets' that Jane Jacobs identified as essential to a free society and the most effective deterrent against crime. Our heads are halfway elsewhere all the time now. How are we going to notice what's going on?

On the other hand, Miko, what I was thinking about yesterday is that GB has 4.5 million CC Cameras and we may not need to go down that Big Brother Route because everyone has a cell phone that takes pictures and video. As evidenced in this breaking case.

I was also thinking about the crowd sourcing. Lots of people related their unease at the idea of the internet crowd sourcing, but I was thinking that the idea of an established police force is a relatively new concept. Maybe it is evolving. I'm not suggesting we go back to the day of Hue and Cry but perhaps there is a way for ordinary citizens to be more involved.

This is a big stretch, but I was relating it to how midwives used to deliver all babies. Then professional doctors got involved and pushed the midwives out. Now midwives and doulas are making a return.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on April 18, 2013


annsunny, Whiskey's Smokehouse, Boylston Street is one of the camera locations
posted by pixie at 4:03 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


BREAKING: Sources tell CBS News investigators have possible names of the men seen in the video (twitter)
posted by desjardins at 4:03 PM on April 18, 2013


"what's the name of the biggest-nosed fucker you know?"
Is that really the biggest nose anyone here has ever seen? I ask because, uh, personal reasons. :(

"Is that a nose, or did a bus park on your face ?" was always my favorite.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:04 PM on April 18, 2013


Everybody's talking about this dude's nose and I'm about to develop a complex. Maybe I just come from big-nosed stock and spend time with big-nosed folks, but his nose really doesn't seem all that egregious to me...? If my brother had longer, curly hair and was an evil fuck, the guy could easily be my brother.
posted by phunniemee at 4:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Someone on reddit: Oh my gosh.... I've seen both of these men.

Subsequent someone on Reddit: "He posted "OK you got me lol" under one of the replies and promptly deleted it, this is likely just a kid with a bad sense of humor."

ugh, commenting here about a comment about a comment on Reddit about another comment on Reddit: we do not need more of this.
posted by wormwood23 at 4:05 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, that nose looks totally average-sized to me. I don't see why we're talking about it.
posted by stopgap at 4:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah can we stop talking about the nose, pls? If he were a fat guy, I think those comments would have been nipped in the bud.
posted by desjardins at 4:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Eyebeams: "I wonder who CNN's source was for "darker-skinned or black male with a possible foreign accent"?"

I have no idea what time it was but I was listening to the scanner for a few hours right after the bombing. There was a discussion over the radio where an officer was reporting that a citizen reported seeing a dark skinned or black male, black hoodie, black backpack acting very suspicious. I think this might be one of the places this line of thinking started.
posted by Big_B at 4:08 PM on April 18, 2013


Thanks, pixie. :)

Well, I have always liked big noses.
posted by annsunny at 4:08 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah can we stop talking about the nose, pls? If he were a fat guy, I think those comments would have been nipped in the bud.

"We" are not talking about it. Some users are ... and that's ok, I think.
posted by Unified Theory at 4:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


C'mon folks, haven't we really had enough of this nosefiling already? We're better than that.
posted by Skygazer at 4:10 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Just as an aside: my dad has a hawk-like nose and people always guess he is Italian but he is actually Hungarian-Czechoslovakian
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on April 18, 2013


The guy has a more than average sized nose. It's an observation of something that stands out. This is not an indictment of all with large noses. Get over it.
posted by Big_B at 4:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Mod note: can everyone cool it on the nose talk? It's getting kind of old/derail-y
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


How This Photo of the Boston Marathon Gives the FBI a Bounty of Data, Spencer Ackerman, Wired Danger Room, 18 April 2013
posted by ob1quixote at 4:13 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


To be sure, re-examining the newly released photos, I can't entirely discount the mask/disguise theory, either. Is black hat's mustache real? Is that prominent schnozz on white hat part of a tight mask? What about the eyebrows and bro cut? Truthfully, though, for every shot where I think I'm seeing Tony Mendez at work there's another in which they look completely natural. I guess there's an outside chance we'll know soon -- if they can match them to names they can match them to other photos.
posted by dhartung at 4:13 PM on April 18, 2013


[Speaking of big noses... Wink.]
posted by Skygazer at 4:14 PM on April 18, 2013


Wearing a mask in a crowd would get you noticed, not ignored. I highly doubt he's wearing a mask.
posted by agregoli at 4:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


SUSPECTS IDENTIFIED AS WOODY ALLEN'S PARENTS IN 'TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN'
posted by Eyebeams at 4:17 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Man the picture in ob1quixote's link has some bizarre artifacting that has runners missing legs and disembodied feet on the road. Life is frickin' weird.
posted by Trochanter at 4:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


How This Photo of the Boston Marathon Gives the FBI a Bounty of Data

Do the two guys appear in it? I couldn't find them anywhere in it.
posted by mathowie at 4:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Not that I could tell, and they say the image was taken 90 minutes before the explosions. If they were, they would be in the far right.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:29 PM on April 18, 2013


He posted "OK you got me lol" under one of the replies and promptly deleted it...

Turns out that was an impostor, FWIW.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:29 PM on April 18, 2013


Or perhaps, How This Photo Of The Boston Marathon Will Make The FBI Yawn When They See That One Dude, Because Damn.

(why is that so contagious, anyway? has science nailed that one yet?)
posted by cmyk at 4:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think Attackerman is saying it has the guys in it, but it can help locate other subjects due to its panoramic sweep and high resolution. But it's more a we-got-nothin', let's-talk-tech column if you ask me.

agregoli, I'm actually talking more Hollywood mask than Halloween mask, a la Argo and the Mossad's alleged Dubai operation. But then other indications have had people leaning toward more amateurish homegrown perpetrator(s).
posted by dhartung at 4:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


It sounds like this was written before the FBI gave out the pictures of suspects, so that is not what's supposed to be useful about this pic, I think.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:33 PM on April 18, 2013


mathowie: How This Photo of the Boston Marathon Gives the FBI a Bounty of Data

Do the two guys appear in it? I couldn't find them anywhere in it.
Not that I could find. Although I was looking at the crowd so much I completely missed the disembodied legs among the runners. Still it's an interesting photo and story.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:35 PM on April 18, 2013


Ricin mailing arrestee is an Elvis impersonator who is into dismembered body parts awareness

Here Is Alleged Ricin Guy Singing “Little Red Corvette” to Mortified Teens
posted by homunculus at 4:36 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, Miko, what I was thinking about yesterday is that GB has 4.5 million CC Cameras and we may not need to go down that Big Brother Route because everyone has a cell phone that takes pictures and video. As evidenced in this breaking case.
This is untrue. I can't believe people are still repeating this "fact" years after it was debunked. It is on the same level as saying that Eskimos have 50 words for snow. It is the height of stupidity and the depth of ignorance.
posted by Jehan at 4:43 PM on April 18, 2013


His Elvis voice is decent enough?
posted by Strass at 4:44 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone on reddit posted a picture that seems to show him fleeing.
posted by VoteBrian at 4:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [19 favorites]


Reddit, Facebook Help Son of Boston Marathon Bombing Victims Locate His Missing Parents
posted by homunculus at 4:45 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspect #2, on the left. Took me a minute.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:46 PM on April 18, 2013


Trying to keep up with this from a plane flying home from NY, and the only satellite channel coming in is msnbc featuring Chris Matthews yelling and speculating... sigh. thank goodness metafilter will load still.
posted by iamabot at 4:46 PM on April 18, 2013


Could be a fake... looks weird.
posted by VoteBrian at 4:47 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


JPG compression. Needs to be uploaded in an uncompressed format.
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah, those darn reddit vigilanties!
posted by cjorgensen at 4:50 PM on April 18, 2013


To follow up on this local (mostly-non-)story, Envelope irritant dropped off in Beloit still unknown. The alleged source has been interviewed but is not in custody. I happened to see the county hazmat van returning to base last night.

Jehan: This Channel4 Fact Check seems to say it may or may not be true but is essentially unverifiable. The figure comes from a 2002 study that extrapolated public and private camera usage from a couple of London streets.

Reddit photo looks like him, proboscis included, all right. The thing is, you can clearly see his face has some sort of artifact on it [also visible in the same profile on the FBI site], which may be his real face but makes it look like he may be wearing something from the middle of his chin and cheek up.
posted by dhartung at 4:51 PM on April 18, 2013


Is that suspect #1 back a bit between the girl in the fuscia sweater and the one in blue jeans?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


iamabot: Trying to keep up with this from a plane flying home from NY, and the only satellite channel coming in is msnbc featuring Chris Matthews yelling and speculating... sigh. thank goodness metafilter will load still.
Well, the upside is you'll get Chris Hayes at 8 PM.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Jehan: "I can't believe people are still repeating this "fact" years after it was debunked. It is on the same level as saying that Eskimos have 50 words for snow. It is the height of stupidity and the depth of ignorance."

I'd never heard it was debunked. I'll grant you "ignorance", but I'm not quite sure why believing it is also "the height of stupidity".
posted by Bugbread at 4:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


And these horrible double-edged swords everyone was using took all those photos too!
posted by dhartung at 6:44 PM on April 18

I'm not sure I understand. The pictures I'm referring to were taken from street surveillance videos, not from people on the street.

All I'm trying to say is that the public is shown pictures of suspects asking people if they saw anything that day, and most of the people walking around the two suspects have their heads down and are looking at their phones.

I am not disparaging their characters. I am not making snotty comments about society.

It's just a point. The people who could have seen them in that specific video clip all have their heads down.
posted by kinetic at 4:54 PM on April 18, 2013


The guy in front of him has the same weird artifact on his face, though. Weird.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspect #1 is in that pic too, next to the woman in the pink coat.
posted by unSane at 4:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Is that suspect #1 back a bit between the girl in the fuscia sweater and the one in blue jeans?


Damn, I think so.
posted by murfed13 at 4:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston Marathon Victim Searches for Rescuer -- and Finds Him, Lylah M. Alphonse, Yahoo! Shine, 18 Apr 2013
Victoria McGrath, 20, was panicked and in pain after shrapnel drilled into her legs when the bombs went off at the finish line of the Boston Marathon on Monday. A man noticed and stopped to comfort her, and his kindness had such an impact on the young woman that officials felt compelled to reach out to him on her behalf. "His name is Tyler. That's all we know. Tyler," Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick said at a press conference on Tuesday.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I really think the hivemind can contribute something to this investigation. I have no skillz to apply myself however. What special skills do we need to round up and bring to this conversation? Where's internet fraud detective squad, station number 9 when we need her?

Re the baseball caps - baseball cap wearers, do they say anything to you? I see bright white hat and I think 'new.' And these hats strike me as something a young dude would not necessarily wear. I like the theory that they may have been purchased recently, at a discount store or souvenir type store. I have to admit, these hats are making me think the guys are not Americans. But I don't know much about baseball hats.
posted by semacd at 5:01 PM on April 18, 2013


Meanwhile, at MIT:

February 26th: the Cambridge Police received a false report...of a “male with a large firearm and wearing body armor” at 77 Massachusetts Avenue who was going after MIT President L. Rafael Reif and school staff in retaliation for the death of Aaron Swartz. (MIT's The Tech)

February 28th: MIT says hoax motivated by Swartz death (Boston Globe)

March 20th: This Accidental Aaron Swartz Hoax Almost Cancelled Class at MIT Today (Atlantic)

April 3rd: MIT reveals improved security plans, following threats in retaliation for the death of Aaron Swartz (boston.com)
posted by seemoreglass at 5:03 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The hats have been definitively identified as a Bridgestone golf hat (black) and a Ralph Lauren polo hat (white).
posted by desjardins at 5:04 PM on April 18, 2013


The Reddit commenter who claimed to have spotted the suspects at a Motel 6 has deleted his entire comment history (including the one claiming to have spotted the suspects) after Reddit sleuths dug through it and pointed out that he could only be 16 years old and thus unlikely to be working at Motel 6. So it looks like he was just trolling. :(
posted by Jacqueline at 5:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


VoteBrian: "Someone on reddit posted a picture that seems to show him fleeing."

If this is real its amazing. Much better resolution, and shows that they did stuck around. Wow. Do you have the link to the subreddit?
posted by Big_B at 5:05 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Wow, those guys look mighty young, which I guess would not be surprising. Also, the people standing near them might not have seen anything, but they probably caught a whiff of Axe body spray.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


err seemoreglass, I don't quite understand the relevance of the MIT links. Are you speculating (wildly) on some sort of connection?
posted by murfed13 at 5:06 PM on April 18, 2013


So it looks like he was just trolling

Or the FBI said get that shit off the internet now.
posted by unSane at 5:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's the thread in question. Subreddit is /r/findbostonbombers.
posted by VoteBrian at 5:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is the person in the pink coat in the "fleeing" pic also in the panorama pic, just right of center next to the tall white-haired person in the black coat?
posted by KathrynT at 5:09 PM on April 18, 2013


I keep thinking it looks like suspect #2 has some kind of false nose and chin on, but it could just be the quality of the photos. As others have pointed out, it would likely have attracted attention up-close.
posted by rosswald at 5:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I can't help but think that, if Reddit ends up being a huge part of finding these guys, that 1) Obama's AMA will look brilliant in hindsight and 2) that the Infowars guys will think that the AMA was part of a long-game false flag operation. It's gonna get crazy.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


> "Or the FBI said get that shit off the internet now."

Given that the person deleted everything he's ever posted to Reddit from that account and not just the comment about the suspects, I'm pretty sure it was trolling.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:12 PM on April 18, 2013


You're assuming the user deleted it.
posted by unSane at 5:13 PM on April 18, 2013


shows that they did stuck around

Well, we know White Hat stuck around as long as the first explosion. Or at least, that's what reports were saying yesterday, reports consistent with the images released today (i.e., that he was seen dropping the bag and then using his phone). The reports said he was using the phone when the first explosion happened. (The timestamp of the FBI photo of him on the phone should confirm this.)
posted by torticat at 5:14 PM on April 18, 2013


The dude with the backward cap looks exactly like Dean Cameron in "Summer School".
posted by playertobenamedlater at 5:16 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


This may be obvious, but regarding the new photo, the guy in the white hat is also missing his backpack.
posted by Osrinith at 5:17 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


torticat: "Well, we know White Hat stuck around as long as the first explosion."

I think this picture is west of the second explosion, and therefore after it also. The first explosion was closer to the finish line, east down Boyleston from Fairfield.
posted by Big_B at 5:18 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah, on second view that also appears to be Suspect #1 with the distinctive Bridgestone cap, but wearing/putting on (?) a red jacket (which lends slight credence to the disguise angle). It makes sense they're still close together given their behavior (which itself is not necessarily the best in tradecraft), but bizarre that they let themselves be so close to the explosion itself. If you have any kind of timer capability you'd want to use it to make yourself as absent as possible (while still avoiding discovery of your bomb). So, maybe not professional at all. Bewildering.

As evidence of closeness -- is the guy with the MIT hoodie sporting a nosebleed?
posted by dhartung at 5:18 PM on April 18, 2013


The dude with the backward cap looks exactly like Dean Cameron in "Summer School".

Holy shit yes.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


murfed13: I think it's only worth noting that two weeks before this event, one of the major universities in the city "revealed improved security plans" in response to threats of violence. I hadn't heard anything about it before today.
posted by seemoreglass at 5:19 PM on April 18, 2013


playertobenamedlater: The dude with the backward cap looks exactly like Dean Cameron in "Summer School".

Thank you, that's been on the tip of my mind all afternoon.
posted by neilbert at 5:21 PM on April 18, 2013


This may be obvious, but regarding the new photo, the guy in the white hat is also missing his backpack.

We can't see his right side, so it's possible he's carrying it alongside himself. However, given that he was sought for having dropped his bag, that seems unlikely.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:22 PM on April 18, 2013


but bizarre that they let themselves be so close to the explosion itself

Yeah, that's pretty troubling to think they were near enough to watch the blasts and see the aftermath but also bizarre that they were close enough that they could have gotten injured themselves? How did they know they would escape injury from their own blasts?
posted by mathowie at 5:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I wish there was a map estimating where the security cameras were that took the videos. It would help me understand it spatially.

In the video where they are turning the corner -- that is where they are coming off Gloucester and turning onto Boylston heading to the bombing spots. The footage is from Whiskey's Steakhouse (885 Boylston). During the FBI presser still photo boards marked the intersection as such.
posted by ericb at 5:26 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


How did they know they would escape injury from their own blasts?

Hubris and an inflated sense of their own diabolical cleverness?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:28 PM on April 18, 2013


Ugh, they keep mentioning a specific person's name in the reddit threads with only the flimsiest of "evidence."
posted by desjardins at 5:28 PM on April 18, 2013


I wouldn't be surprised if they just screwed up somehow and had planned on being blocks away when the bombs went off.
posted by feloniousmonk at 5:28 PM on April 18, 2013


There's also this way less amazing shot of what is believed to be suspect #1's back before the explosion. Reddit thread here.
posted by Big_B at 5:29 PM on April 18, 2013


Really just the same qualities that result in most idiotic fireworks mishaps.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:29 PM on April 18, 2013


> "You're assuming the user deleted it."

This user had posted and commented across multiple subreddits and each subreddit has its own moderators, or no moderators at all. Short of the Reddit owners/admins getting involved -- which I've never seen them do except in cases of moderators of large subreddits egregiously abusing their powers -- there's no one with the ability to delete every comment a user has ever made except the user him/herself.

Also, the user's other posts and comments were on subjects and subreddits that had nothing to do with the BMB. So even if someone did have the power to do this, what would be the reason for deleting the user's posts to /r/furries etc.?

This person was trolling and nuked his/her account after getting caught. Treating accounts as disposable is actually pretty standard behavior on Reddit, where you don't even need an email address much less pay $5 to create an account. Some people routinely switch accounts every week, day, etc. just because they don't want to leave a posting history for others to dig through.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:29 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]



How did they know they would escape injury from their own blasts?

They could have done a test run somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
posted by drezdn at 5:30 PM on April 18, 2013


Or they might have been well away and then just hovered and waited for more fleeing people to catch up with them for added cover.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:30 PM on April 18, 2013


Ugh, they keep mentioning a specific person's name in the reddit threads with only the flimsiest of "evidence."

Yea, I was going to not bring that up in this thread. It's really shitty.

Also, redditors don't think that the black hat suspect is the guy in that other photo.
posted by murfed13 at 5:31 PM on April 18, 2013


Has anyone official stated anything definitive as to the "egg timers" v.s. "internet says these are standard RC circuit boards?" issue? I ask because their (apparent) proximity to the blasts is not incompatible with a third party preparing their explosives and doing some remote detonation (perhaps a hair too slow to eliminate the two bombers?).
posted by hoople at 5:32 PM on April 18, 2013


Also, the user's other posts and comments were on subjects and subreddits that had nothing to do with the BMB. So even if someone did have the power to do this, what would be the reason for deleting the user's posts to /r/furries etc.?

Well, if I'd been the FBI guy I'd have said "Delete that comment, and if there's anything remotely identifiably in your posting history, delete it too".

He may well have been a troll but I don't think the disappearance of the posts is evidence either way.
posted by unSane at 5:34 PM on April 18, 2013


They could have done a test run somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

In fact there were a series of mysterious blasts in the Boston area in the weeks before the bombing.
posted by unSane at 5:35 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone in one of those Reddit threads posted this piece about mystery explosions in Salem. The FBI did mention such things as practice runs.
posted by feste at 5:36 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


these mystery explosions?
posted by desjardins at 5:37 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Yep and I think there were others in was it Hanover?
posted by unSane at 5:38 PM on April 18, 2013


Okay, now I'm totally creeped out.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:39 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yes, explosions in Hanover, MA.
posted by TurkishGolds at 5:40 PM on April 18, 2013


AP: Marathon Runner Witnesses Double Disasters
People keep asking Joe Berti if he feels unlucky.

A bomb exploded at the finish line of the Boston Marathon seconds after Berti finished the race. Two days later, he was in his home state of Texas when he saw a fertilizer plant explode near Waco.
posted by BobbyVan at 5:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


That's getting to be a lot of $80 pressure cookers, powder and shot.
posted by Trochanter at 5:44 PM on April 18, 2013


They recovered devices in the Hanover, MA explosions, so hopefully they can make a connection? Unless they destroyed them.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:45 PM on April 18, 2013


Enhanced version of the FBI video (levels/contrasts/highlights manipulated, video sharpened)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This is untrue. I can't believe people are still repeating this "fact" years after it was debunked. It is on the same level as saying that Eskimos have 50 words for snow. It is the height of stupidity and the depth of ignorance.

But... but... Sandy Toksvig told me so on the News Quiz. Aaaah Sandy. And I see that the BBC was using that number.

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say
An article published in CCTV Image magazine estimates that the number of cameras in the UK is 1.85 million. The number is based on extrapolating from a comprehensive survey of public and private cameras within the Cheshire Constabulary jurisdiction.[29] This works out as an average of one camera for every 32 people in the UK, although the density of cameras varies greatly from place to place. The Cheshire report also claims that the average person on a typical day would be seen by 70 CCTV cameras.

The Cheshire figure is regarded as more dependable than a previous study by Michael McCahill and Clive Norris of UrbanEye published in 2002.[30] Based on a small sample in Putney High Street, McCahill and Norris estimated the number of surveillance cameras in private premises in London at around 500,000 and the total number of cameras in the UK at around 4,200,000. According to their estimate the UK has one camera for every 14 people. Although it has been acknowledged for several years that the methodology behind this figure is somewhat dubious,[31] it has continued to be quoted in the absence of a better figure.
Well, well. I'm a regular dummkopf not to know better than the hosts on BBC radio.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Not that I could tell, and they say the image was taken 90 minutes before the explosions. If they were, they would be in the far right.

Yes. That is a panorama of the crowd standing between Gloucester and Fairfield. The suspects planted the bombs approximately 12 minutes before they exploded. Hence, the video from Whiskey's which caught them turning the corner off Gloucester onto Boylston was taken way after she took that photo.
posted by ericb at 5:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh what the hell...apparently some guy just walked into the Hooters in Hollywood and said he had a bomb?
posted by limeonaire at 5:50 PM on April 18, 2013


It seems that Reddit posts are disappearing. I think the FBI are watching it pretty closely.
posted by unSane at 5:51 PM on April 18, 2013


apparently some guy just walked into the Hooters in Hollywood and said he had a bomb?

He said boner. I've got a boner.
posted by Trochanter at 5:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


It seems that Reddit posts are disappearing. I think the FBI are watching it pretty closely.

SOP for Reddit. People post something stupid/controversial, get downvoted, and delete to protect their precious karma.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


The mods of that subreddit are actively deleting any posts that speculate on a connection between one of the suspects and the missing kid. That might account for what you're seeing, unSane.

I'm having a hard time pulling myself off reddit, just watching the information move so quickly. I find it amazing that 2 hours ago the FBI (presumably) did not have the photo of one of the suspects leaving the scene and now they do, potentially thanks to a website.

2013 / the future is crazy.
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


It seems that Reddit posts are disappearing. I think the FBI are watching it pretty closely.
posted by unSane 3 minutes ago [+]

I'm sorry, those two sentences seem to be a non sequitur to me. Are you suggesting the FBI has something to do with them being deleted?

And if so, what kinds of comments are disappearing?
posted by Unified Theory at 5:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Man, I'm a nerd. I watch this unfold and my first thought is "Reddit, you are on the Global Frequency."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [10 favorites]


Oh what the hell...apparently some guy just walked into the Hooters in Hollywood and said he had a bomb?

Source?
posted by scody at 5:58 PM on April 18, 2013


The mods of that subreddit are actively deleting any posts that speculate on a connection between one of the suspects and the missing kid.

Now I am really confused. What "missing kid"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on April 18, 2013


What is the issue with the missing kid? I'm seeing a big stink there on Reddit -- is there a missing person from the bombing that has not been accounted for or something? This is the first I've heard of a missing person.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:00 PM on April 18, 2013


The mods of that subreddit are actively deleting any posts that speculate on a connection between one of the suspects and the missing kid.

I feel like I missed something. What missing kid?
posted by limeonaire at 6:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Google hooters hollywood bomb and you'll find some breaking news posts, Twitter posts, etc. on the subject.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:01 PM on April 18, 2013


Here is what I seeing re Hooters:

HOOTERS UPDATE: Suspect still in restaurant, LAPD says. Officers are assessing the situation
#BREAKINGNEWS A man has reportedly walked into a Hollywood Hooters claiming to have an explosive device. Story developing. (CBS LA)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on April 18, 2013


There's a missing Brown University student that some are speculating is one of the suspects. But in my opinion he CLEARLY isn't him. The nose isn't the same.
posted by Unified Theory at 6:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


There was a kid from MIT that went missing March 13.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:02 PM on April 18, 2013


Looks like the posts on Twitter about the Hollywood Hooters are all working off of this post by @CBSLA. I first saw it via @YourAnonNews.
posted by limeonaire at 6:03 PM on April 18, 2013


There was a young man from Providence who went missing last month and was suspected to be in the Boston area. He's a tall man with a resemblance to White-Hat, although I think the missing guy's skin is darker and his nose not as prominent. I can see that they might want to avoid mentioning him, because that young man had depression, and if he has been living rough on the streets trying to find himself, being a possible international suspect would not help him decide to come home.

On preview: Unified Theory has it.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:03 PM on April 18, 2013


There was a kid that went missing a month or so back that bears resemblance to one of the suspects. There was rampant speculation in every other new thread in that subreddit that the two were one and the same. I won't post the name of the missing kid here (I certainly don't want to do any further harm) but it's incredibly unlikely the missing kid is actually the suspect and the given that they were throwing the guy's name around like crazy, I can see why all the speculation was deleted...

on preview: zombieflanders is much more succinct than I am.
posted by youandiandaflame at 6:03 PM on April 18, 2013


The 15-year-old inside my head can not stop giggling at the phrases "Here is what I['m] seeing re Hooters" and "HOOTERS UPDATE."
posted by zombieflanders at 6:03 PM on April 18, 2013


A college student went missing recently, the family has been searching for him, with the FBI. Several posters have been speculating he is linked, its basically horribly irresponsible.
posted by iamabot at 6:04 PM on April 18, 2013


Hooters is named the way it is for the 15-year-old inside all of us.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:05 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


There was a bomb scare in Tampa today, at the cruise ship port. A bomb sniffing dog perked up at a package; another dog was brought in and it did too.

Nearby schools were put on lockdown and all the law enforcement from everywhere came in so as not to miss out on the fun and the cruise passengers were shuffled off the boat and waited around somewhere in an unseasonably hot day and the boat itself was not allowed to leave and everything got cordoned off, examined, selected, detected, and inspected. Somewhere, I am sure, there is a stack of eight by ten glossy photographs.

Turns out it was booze. I blame pirates because where's the rum gone etc.
posted by cmyk at 6:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


That's some serious availability bias and general irresponsibility, go internet! But I shouldn't talk, I keep hoping that the Saudi gentleman who got tackled and questioned will turn out to be the guy seen sprinting away like a madman, so who am I to pass judgment?
posted by hoople at 6:06 PM on April 18, 2013


I wouldn't necessarily blame that entire subreddit for the irresponsibility of a couple users. I mean, in the past two hours they've produced a clearer picture of one of the suspects than the FBI was able to distribute.

I mean, I guess the FBI might have already had that photo but it seems to me that if they did they've have released it instead of the blurry ones they had...
posted by youandiandaflame at 6:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


If you want to monitor the area scanners, you can do so here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:11 PM on April 18, 2013


The Reddit commenter who claimed to have spotted the suspects at a Motel 6 has deleted his entire comment history (including the one claiming to have spotted the suspects) after Reddit sleuths dug through it and pointed out that he could only be 16 years old and thus unlikely to be working at Motel 6.

Er, you can be 16 and working at a Motel 6. You just can't work after 10pm on a school night, according to Massachusetts youth employment laws. You can certainly be working there if your parents own it and they make you do stuff at their motel and pay you under the table (or not at all). Surely people on Reddit had jobs as teenagers and would not find a 16 year old with a job surprising?
posted by oneirodynia at 6:12 PM on April 18, 2013


Hooters thing is likely not even a bomb (of course, the cops have to treat it as if it is). The copycattery starts now (I'm surprised it hadn't earlier). Brace yourselves, there's going to be a lot of this shit during the coming days, including people calling in fake bomb threats, people looking for suicide by cop, various extremists trying to get publicity, etc.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:13 PM on April 18, 2013


There's a claim an address was just put out on the scanner for the suspects.
posted by unSane at 6:13 PM on April 18, 2013


Ugh, that mystery explosions thread was from my town. That's the moment when your stomach knots up. Still, as you can see from the thread, there are "mystery explosions" around the country all the time. Most likely this is not at all related. I did send the link to the tipline, but I bet that angle would have been checked out eventually anyway.
posted by Miko at 6:13 PM on April 18, 2013


So this guy runs the Marathon, finishes just before the bombs, flies home to Texas, and is driving past the fertilizer plant when it explodes.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Joakim Ziegler: Brace yourselves, there's going to be a lot of this shit during the coming days
Indeed. Including and especially every unattended bag and package being deemed suspicious.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reddit trying to solve the Boston Bombing case
posted by homunculus at 6:17 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


So this guy runs the Marathon, finishes just before the bombs, flies home to Texas, and is driving past the fertilizer plant when it explodes.

Poor guy. Please stay home.
posted by desjardins at 6:21 PM on April 18, 2013


Poor guy. Please go out and live your life as you would normally do.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 6:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [13 favorites]


So this guy runs the Marathon, finishes just before the bombs, flies home to Texas, and is driving past the fertilizer plant when it explodes.

Oh man are his arms AND legs tired.
posted by humanfont at 6:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [33 favorites]


"You can certainly be working there if your parents own it and they make you do stuff at their motel and pay you under the table (or not at all)."

When I was 13 and my family was going through some tough times financially, a coworker of my mom who owned a local motel offered to let us move in there and be the night management. (There was a two-bedroom apartment built onto the office.) This seemed to me like the coolest thing that could possibly happen ever since ever and even before we moved I began making plans for having an entire motel at my disposal through my adolescence. Unfortunately, there were rats the size of small dogs and my mother was certain one was going to eat my infant sister, so we moved right back out after only a week.

Sometimes I still sort of dreamily pine for those crazy fun times that might-have-been. But probably I would have been mostly put to work cleaning the pool, greeting guests, and helping dispose of used condoms that weren't even mine.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Reddit trying to solve the Boston Bombing case

I've been worried, throughout the day today, that reddit was being linked here so much and with some relatively good stuff, that we, the non-reddit internet, would have to admit that they are in someway superior to us.
NO, my fellow citizens, no, they are in no way superior... in some respects not even equal. In the above link they are talking about boobies and House M.D. NOT solving the current crimes against humanity.
(unless they really are, and their STUPID up/downvoting is obscuring that with lupus jokes)
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:34 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Poor guy. Please stay home.
posted by desjardins at 9:21 PM

This guy may be the luckiest bastard of all time. He should buy a couple of lottery tickets.
posted by kinetic at 6:35 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I wouldn't be surprised if the bombers turn out to fit the school shooter model more than any ideologically driven model, whether anti-government, foreign terrorist, or Aaron Schwartz revenge. It could just be two young men (or teenage boys) who wanted to cause mayhem and chaos, and that is more difficult for us to accept because there's no one to point the finger at, although many will try to blame video games, the parents, violent movies, marriage equality, or anything they can think of to pin a reason behind why someone would commit such a senseless act. But it might remain that forever, a senseless act with no motive, no reason.
posted by perhapses at 6:37 PM on April 18, 2013 [14 favorites]


Cold Lurkey:

I want to remind the audience: This is not a competition, it's only an exhibition.

As always: no wagering.
posted by absalom at 6:38 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


reddit was being linked here so much and with some relatively good stuff, that we, the non-reddit internet, would have to admit that they are in someway superior to us.

I'm both a MiFier and a Redditer. Some days I prefer a ton of links and a lot of jokes and amusing kitty/puppy pictures and gardening solutions. Other days I prefer more in-depth discussion. Both sites are excellent for what they provide.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


turn out to fit the school shooter model

That's the vibe I get from the footage.
posted by vrakatar at 6:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.
posted by unSane at 6:41 PM on April 18, 2013 [23 favorites]


In the above link they are talking about boobies and House M.D. NOT solving the current crimes against humanity.

Not to rain on your parade but that's a joke subreddit, not the crime solving one.
posted by murfed13 at 6:42 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.
posted by unSane at 6:41 PM on April 18 [+] [!]

That picture is infuriating.
posted by VoteBrian at 6:45 PM on April 18, 2013 [38 favorites]


The mysterious 'plonk!' noises you may hear are either small earthquakes, secret TSA bomb ranges, or my tongue popping out of my cheek.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 6:46 PM on April 18, 2013


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.
posted by unSane at 9:41 PM on April 18

Oh my g*d. I actually felt my heart break.
posted by kinetic at 6:47 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


This guy may be the luckiest bastard of all time. He should buy a couple of lottery tickets.

He would probably just wind up standing right beside a bunch of people who go broke.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:47 PM on April 18, 2013 [17 favorites]


It could just be two young men (or teenage boys)

Oh I hope they are not teenage boys. That would be too horrible for their parents and terrible to think that such a stupid choice at a dumb age would condemn them to life in prison, forever. It makes me sick to think of it.

If they do turn out to be 18 or 20, I can totally imagine them sitting in prison at age 50 and every day having to bear the burden of what they did as young, thoughtless jackasses.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:47 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm both a MiFier

Aw, shit...now you done fucked up.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [19 favorites]


Time for bed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:49 PM on April 18, 2013


And "Redditer" on top of that.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Oh I hope they are not teenage boys.

They're not much beyond it.
posted by Trochanter at 6:50 PM on April 18, 2013


If they do turn out to be 18 or 20, I can totally imagine them sitting in prison at age 50 and every day having to bear the burden of what they did as young, thoughtless jackasses.

I mean, I can think of shit I did as a young, thoughtless jackass, and I can think of shit other folks I know who aren't nearly as nice as I am did when they were young, thoughtless jackasses, and none of those things comes anywhere near making a bomb and setting it in a place where they know they'll blow folks up.

So whoever did this, I don't really care how old they are. If you make the conscious choice to harm others, you are welcome to sit and bear that burden forever.
posted by phunniemee at 6:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.
posted by unSane at 9:41 PM on April 18

My god, that is really really hard to see. That hurts my heart.
posted by JenMarie at 6:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm both a MiFier and a Redditer.

MeFite and Redditor.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

Well, wrong bag anyway. It would have been toward the back of the crowd. See the exhaustive take here (careful with individual picture links. Some NSFW.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Oh I hope they are not teenage boys. That would be too horrible for their parents and terrible to think that such a stupid choice at a dumb age would condemn them to life in prison, forever. It makes me sick to think of it.

"Stupid choice" is not a strong enough phrase to describe planting a pair of bombs in a crowd of people and detonating them.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


I also got a kind of creepy jauntiness vibe about white hat that suggests callow youth and/or insanity. Black hat seemed more determined, maybe the pseudo-ideological leader.
posted by seemoreglass at 6:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Wait, someone help me out here, it that pic a fake? Where did it come from? Because that is beyond horrible if real, and evil if faked.
posted by torticat at 6:55 PM on April 18, 2013


Oh, that photo.
posted by gerryblog at 6:55 PM on April 18, 2013


NSFW does not even cover those photos - there's a dead body with no warning in the link description.
posted by desjardins at 6:56 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm referring to ChurchHatesTucker's reddit link
posted by desjardins at 6:56 PM on April 18, 2013


That pic is devastating. I assume that's his mom and little sister standing on either side of him on the fence?
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:57 PM on April 18, 2013


What strikes me--assuming, of course, these dudes are (a) the right guys and (b) not supposed to have been martyrs for some ideological cause who wouldn't have cared about being recognized later--is how dumb they are. I mean, if there was any measure of "camera density" in the world, the finish line at the Boston Marathon would have to figure up there somewhere, wouldn't it?

Also, they should get Castle and Beckett on the case. They always get great HD surveillance footage immediately after a crime, which then immediately spits out a facial match via a Bad Guys database.
posted by maxwelton at 6:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Also, Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic. Just because.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 PM on April 18, 2013


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

In a very shitty week, this is the most upsetting picture I've seen. Just so distressing.
posted by toastedbeagle at 6:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Was this debunked, or wasn't Martin Richard killed in the second blast, after running away from the first blast? So that's probably not the right bag. Also.
posted by donajo at 7:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2

It really doesn't look like one of the bombers to me, looks like a younger kid (15-16?) in a white hat, and the actual FBI photos make him look like he has a thinner face and is looking 18-20 to me.
posted by mathowie at 7:02 PM on April 18, 2013


-is how dumb they are. I mean, if there was any measure of "camera density" in the world, the finish line at the Boston Marathon would have to figure up there somewhere, wouldn't it?

That's why it fits the shooter model more than any terrorist model.
posted by perhapses at 7:05 PM on April 18, 2013


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

I saw that photo and flashed to my nephew at a mardi gras parade a few months ago, how he wanted something from a vendor in the crowd and how I promised him something even better when we got back home and how he then clung to the barricade and had a great time.

I need for this poor little guy to have been having a fantastic time and to have no idea at all what happened. Seeing him there like that is just destroying my soul.
posted by BrianJ at 7:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

Holy shit. That is where the second blast went off in front of Forum (formerly Vox Populi) to the left of Starbucks. Google Street View.
posted by ericb at 7:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Maybe this has been posted here ... Sorry if it's a duplicate.

But this user submitted video really chilled me, it's such a visceral and immediate view of the immediate aftermath. It starts slowly but the woman shooting it then walks to the scene of the bombing. It is quite surreal to see a person with clothes shredded from the blast who is clearly in a daze, while curious, calm onlookers just drifting past him trying to figure out what just happened and others scream in fear and terror. It really gives a sense of the collective disorientation people were experiencing.
posted by Unified Theory at 7:11 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

That is one of the official photos - photo 5. Atrocious, he put it down near women and children? I am with Reddit on this one, lock him in a room and keep him alive but in solitary.
posted by marienbad at 7:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This map from Reddit seems pretty good. (It lacks the WTF HOLY SHIT picture linked by unSane)
posted by maryr at 7:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Unified Theory: "Maybe this has been posted here ... Sorry if it's a duplicate.

But this user submitted video really chilled me, it's such a visceral and immediate view of the immediate aftermath. It starts slowly but the woman shooting it then walks to the scene of the bombing. It is quite surreal to see a person with clothes shredded from the blast who is clearly in a daze, while curious, calm onlookers just drifting past him trying to figure out what just happened and others scream in fear and terror. It really gives a sense of the collective disorientation people were experiencing"

It's really strange how people are kind of all doing their own thing, and some, like the woman filming here, even runs towards the area (she seems to say something about her friend, but I'm unclear on who that is and why she expects him/her to be there).

Also, I guess this is confirmation that all those found footage horror films are pretty realistic. People will indeed keep filming way beyond the point where they should really either get the fuck out of there or just at least prioritize something else.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


It really doesn't look like one of the bombers to me, looks like a younger kid (15-16?) in a white hat, and the actual FBI photos make him look like he has a thinner face and is looking 18-20 to me.

But that is one of the FBI photos.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.Holy shit. That is where the second blast went off in front of Forum (formerly Vox Populi) to the left of Starbucks. Google Street View.

You can see in that photo that it is indeed the site of Forum with Starbucks on the right and Atlantic Fish Company (761 Boylston) on the left. In the Google Street View you can see the green mailbox as captured by photos/video from across the street (Lord & Taylor).
posted by ericb at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


This guy may be the luckiest bastard of all time.
Not even close. Tsutomu Yamaguchi survived the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. Three days later, he survived the atomic bombing of Nagasaki.
posted by Flunkie at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


That is one of the official photos - photo 5.

Interestingly, there're are slight differences between the official photo and the one in unSane's link. Specifically, the official photo doesn't show the yellow hat just behind Suspect #2. So it would seem there is either a series of photos or video from that viewpoint.
posted by VoteBrian at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2013


That map is good, although it strikes me as the exact thing the FBI is doing right now, except with more CCTV, more photographs, and more interviews. Establishing sequence, tracking movement, and drawing a timeline is just fundamental police.

I can't help but notice, when Reddit/"crowd-sourcing" is given nothing to go on, it will uncover a million bombers, but when given a specific pair of people to find and track, they will establish a decent chronology within an hour.

The FBI has better training and better information, but Reddit has the brute force of a million eyeballs. It's still really weird living in the future.
posted by absalom at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


holy shit -- Jeff Bauman, the guy with the legs severed in the iconic photo: "He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me,"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [60 favorites]


That is one of the official photos - photo 5.

So, that's the actual FBI-released photo, but the FBI had blacked out the surrounding area because it shows victims, I guess?

Wow. Heartbreaking picture.
posted by torticat at 7:25 PM on April 18, 2013


this user submitted video really chilled me

Ugh. What exactly was this woman doing other than being the worst kind of bystander? She rushes to the scene, does nothing but freak out for several minutes, and generally indulges in all the most voyeuristic impulses she could. The entire time she was standing near that mass of casualties I was so angry I actually wanted to yell "THEN WHY DON'T YOU PUT DOWN THE CAMERA AND EITHER GET SOMEWHERE SAFE OR FUCKING HELP!"

I repeat: Ugh.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:25 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


Holy shit is right, (A)H&(W)O.
posted by devinemissk at 7:26 PM on April 18, 2013


That picture made me feel worse than anything else I've seen over the past week, even the gory stuff. It's really a terrible image.
posted by codacorolla at 7:27 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not watching the video, because it sounds like it's too much for me. But let's not criticize as being irrational people who've just come this close to dying in an explosion.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


I find it really upsetting that Jeff Bauman's family found out he was so badly injured by seeing the now-famous picture on Facebook. Can you imagine? I don't think the gory coverage from the day of the marathon was at all warranted. That shit just isn't fucking news. Save it for the historical record after people have found out whether their loved ones are alive/injured/dead. Jesus.
posted by threeants at 7:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Unbelievable, AHAWO. Just unbelievable. That poor man, what a story, but I cannot imagine what kind of help you would need to overcome the trauma of that memory.
posted by torticat at 7:31 PM on April 18, 2013


But let's not criticize as being irrational people who've just come this close to dying in an explosion.

She comes from what looks like a cafe several blocks away with at least one building between it and the blast. She was nowhere near close to the explosion, let alone dying from it.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I stopped watching it shortly after she approached the mass of casualties but I don't fault her. I think it's hard to fault someone for trying to figure out what was going on, and if she felt she had nothing to offer and that she would "just be in the way," or was too shaken and confused, or too afraid for loved ones, to be of assistance ... then who are we to judge her?

Her video may seem voyeuristic or selfish but it could be her video or someone else's that provides a vital clue. At least she had the presence of mind to shoot the video, which is something.
posted by Unified Theory at 7:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


So how does the "this is more like an inexplicable school shooting" hypothesis fit with the fact that the FBI has said that these guys are "armed and extremely dangerous" and still on the lam? In the school/otherwise shootings I recall, the suspect was apprehended posthaste, being too insane to do otherwise.
posted by seemoreglass at 7:37 PM on April 18, 2013


You've just got to assume that, seemoreglass. Best practices and all.
posted by Trochanter at 7:39 PM on April 18, 2013


I think "armed and dangerous" means "leave apprehension to the experts."
posted by toastedbeagle at 7:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


being too insane to do otherwise.

er, cite?
posted by unSane at 7:40 PM on April 18, 2013


Jeff Bauman, the guy with the legs severed in the iconic photo: "He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me,"


I'm just itching for the poetic justice that that sentence promises.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


Teen Stunned at Portrayal as Boston Bomb Suspect

This poor kid, and the unfortunate woman beaten for Walking While Brown, should sue the cruel and shameless bastards at the New York Post management, and anyone else who was complicit, for every (blood) red cent they have.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:41 PM on April 18, 2013 [9 favorites]



This whole thing is getting awfully surreal.
posted by Jalliah at 7:41 PM on April 18, 2013


Some shooters killed themselves and/or prepared for a standoff with the police. If these suspects do turn out to be along those lines, you got to suspect that they might do something similar when police go after them.
posted by perhapses at 7:42 PM on April 18, 2013


Way to go Jeff, by the way. Tough nut.
posted by Trochanter at 7:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


So if Jeff Bauman saw one of the bombers, he should be able to provide a description to an FBI sketch artist, right? I wonder why that hasn't been released yet.
posted by joan_holloway at 7:43 PM on April 18, 2013


the fact that the FBI has said that these guys are "armed and extremely dangerous"

I assumed the point of this was basically to say "we don't know 100% for sure that these are the guys, and on the off chance that we are wrong, never mind the fact that we have a Constitution in this country, innocent until proven guilty, PLEASE DO NOT GO HUNT THESE PEOPLE DOWN YOURSELVES." Except in a way that might actually be effective.
posted by phunniemee at 7:43 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Teen Stunned at Portrayal as Boston Bomb Suspect
In a statement, New York Post editor Col Allan said, “We stand by our story. The image was emailed to law enforcement agencies yesterday afternoon seeking information about these men, as our story reported. We did not identify them as suspects.”
I was really rooting for Rush Limbaugh to be the biggest jackass in the media from this whole nightmare, but I think the Post has pretty much locked up victory, barring a late entry from FOX news.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


There's something about the way that White Hat walks that is distinctive. He is sort of bowlegged and sort of shuffles - kind of like soccer players in high school?
posted by Mid at 7:49 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


There's something about the way that White Hat walks that is distinctive. He is sort of bowlegged and sort of shuffles - kind of like soccer players in high school?

Where I'm from, that's how hockey players walk
posted by fluffycreature at 7:50 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


This looks like a picture of #2 and the 8 year old victim, with the bag on the ground.

Well, wrong bag anyway. It would have been toward the back of the crowd. See the exhaustive take here (careful with individual picture links. Some NSFW.)

According to that exhaustive take, bomb number two was placed on the tree grate, which is where it is in the photo.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Meant to add the relevant bit:

Where's all your info for bomb #2?

This post took hours longer to write than I was expecting and I'm really tired. Short answer: the bomb was placed on the iron grate around the tree, towards the back. The blast bent the barricade around the mailbox so badly that it could not be removed easily, which is why it's in almost all the later pictures.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


... which means that horrible photo is legit, or someone who has been following discussions of bomb placement is a really good photo manipulator. :(
posted by oneirodynia at 7:55 PM on April 18, 2013


Gunshots at MIT. (emergency.mit.edu)
At 10:48 PM today gunshots were reported inear Building 32 which is currently surrounded by responding agencies. The area is cordoned off. . Please stay clear of area until further notice. Unknown if injuries have occurred.. Although the situation is considered active and extremely dangerous, an investigation is underway. Updates will be provided at this site when more information becomes available.
 Not linking directly because I don't want to crash the website.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Some shooters killed themselves and/or prepared for a standoff with the police. If these suspects do turn out to be along those lines, you got to suspect that they might do something similar when police go after them.

These guys are chicken shits. There will be no firefight, they don't have the stomach for it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Jeff Bauman, the guy with the legs severed in the iconic photo: "He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me,"

So if Jeff Bauman saw one of the bombers, he should be able to provide a description to an FBI sketch artist, right? I wonder why that hasn't been released yet.

Um ... Did you read AHaWO's linked article?
While still in intensive care, Jeff Bauman gave the FBI a description of the man he saw, his brother said. Bauman’s information helped investigators narrow down whom to look for in hours of video of the attack, he said.
posted by ericb at 8:01 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


MIT newspaper reports "officer down."
posted by BobbyVan at 8:02 PM on April 18, 2013


Shots at MIT???????
posted by maryr at 8:02 PM on April 18, 2013


Roommate who works at MIT got an email just now.
posted by maryr at 8:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh no.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 8:03 PM on April 18, 2013


People will indeed keep filming way beyond the point where they should really either get the fuck out of there or just at least prioritize something else.

Everyone fashions himself a roving reporter- and really, with Twitter/Facebook, aren't we all? I still remember reports from a year or so ago when there was a deranged man in Times Square that cops ended up chasing and fatally shooting, all the while being followed by a huge gang of folks holding up iPhones and digital cameras, documenting the whole thing.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:03 PM on April 18, 2013


Probably apropos of nothing related to this thread, but I am monitoring Cambridge PD as an officer was shot on Vassar St. (Kendall/MIT area) about 30 minutes ago.

No article to link to yet, so here's the relevant scanner feed.
posted by rollbiz at 8:03 PM on April 18, 2013


In a statement, New York Post editor Col Allan said, “We stand by our story. The image was emailed to law enforcement agencies yesterday afternoon seeking information about these men, as our story reported. We did not identify them as suspects.”

Emphasis added. I think they forgot the words "by random people on the internet" in that statement.
posted by amarynth at 8:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


MIT newspaper The Tech's twitter.
posted by maryr at 8:04 PM on April 18, 2013


... which means that horrible photo is legit.

I think it's definitely legit. The FBI darkened all the people around the suspect, I assume because it is the blast site, but you can still see them a bit in the FBI photo, and they match the horrible photo.
posted by torticat at 8:04 PM on April 18, 2013


Sorry, should've previewed.

Officer was transported to MGH, EMS was stepped up so it sounds relatively serious. No description of the shooter or the car at this time.
posted by rollbiz at 8:05 PM on April 18, 2013


CNN just reported the MIT shooting.
posted by ndfine at 8:08 PM on April 18, 2013


Referencing the photo of the bombing suspect standing near the Richard's family, (mother, Martin, daughter, father, older brother,) compare this photo (distant, post blast, still disturbing.)

The section of railing that Martin, mother, and daughter are standing on has been blown out into the street (though perhaps not as far as the picture suggests; it may have been dragged out of the roadway to allow emergency vehicle access.) To the left of where they were standing another section of railing has been bent around the mailbox, such was the force of the blast.

What a heart-wrenching photo for this family.
posted by zueod at 8:09 PM on April 18, 2013


From the scanner traffic it appears the shooting may be related to a robbery at a 7-11 store. Not necessarily connected to the Boston marathon.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:13 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


compare this photo

oh god maybe don't compare that photo, it shows Martin's little sister getting up from the ground. Fuck, fuck, fuck.
posted by torticat at 8:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


ericb, yes indeed I did read the article and it refers to the description being used for scouring video, which resulted in rather crappy-quality photos of the suspect. My question is whether an FBI sketch artist could have produced something more recognizable for the public from these descriptions.
posted by joan_holloway at 8:15 PM on April 18, 2013


Ah. 7-11, Cambridge, MA, to MIT, Cambridge, MA.
posted by limeonaire at 8:18 PM on April 18, 2013


Chris Hayes, as always, had a great read of today's events on tonight's program: posted by ob1quixote at 8:19 PM on April 18, 2013


Per the scanner feed, the 7-11 robbery does not appear related to the MIT shooting. They've made it explicitly clear in the scanner dispatches that the description for the robbery is separate from the officer shooting.
posted by rollbiz at 8:22 PM on April 18, 2013


Also, I don't believe the 7-11 robbed was on Portland Street, limonaire.
posted by rollbiz at 8:23 PM on April 18, 2013


Note that the area around MIT isn't violence-free. People are frequently surprised by the level of crime in Cambridge, it has a safe feeling but not-great statistics.

I bring this up because this may be your more common crime-related shooting as opposed to a "shooter" going for a body count. Obviously too early for anything definitive, just providing some context if you aren't familiar with the area. It sickens me that this is a best case scenario.
posted by nowoutside at 8:25 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah, I have no idea. I don't live there. Was just trying to help out with a map! In other news, there was just an earthquake in Japan. I'm going to bed.
posted by limeonaire at 8:25 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Re: MIT -- WCVB is reporting that shots were shot around building 32. Confirmed that a MIT policeman was shot. Obviously, developing story.
posted by ericb at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2013


Chris Hayes of MSNBC and NYT confirmed the hi res image
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


State Police: life-threading injuries to the MIT officer.
posted by ericb at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2013


I have access to the archived scanner feeds, but they only archive every 30 minutes. I am waiting for this relevant section to archive to clear some things up to a minimal extent at least...
posted by rollbiz at 8:28 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Note that the version of that hi-res image posted by the NYTimes is the full resolution original, with better quality than what was posted before.
posted by stopgap at 8:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


The high res image.
posted by ericb at 8:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Becoming hard to tell difference between credible news organizations like 4chan and troll sites like New York Post.—Nate Silver (@fivethirtyeight)
posted by ob1quixote at 8:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [74 favorites]


I wonder how much CC footage they can get, knowing what street he turned down based on that photo, to follow his path?
posted by perhapses at 8:32 PM on April 18, 2013


What stopgap said.
posted by ericb at 8:33 PM on April 18, 2013


limeonaire: "In other news, there was just an earthquake in Japan."

I'm not seeing much on Japanese news sites about it, and I didn't feel it here in Tokyo. Must have been pretty small.
posted by Bugbread at 8:34 PM on April 18, 2013


Not to show any disrespect, but was the "MIT officer" an actual policeman or a private security guard? I guess, how would anyone know at this point?
posted by newdaddy at 8:35 PM on April 18, 2013


@thetech posted an overhead photo of the shooting scene at MIT. Somewhat graphic, but low-res.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:37 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


MIT police are "real" police and carry firearms.
posted by rollbiz at 8:39 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


The MIT twitter feed says MIT police officer.
posted by toastedbeagle at 8:39 PM on April 18, 2013


MIT has its own police force - 55 armed, academy-trained sworn officers, who have full arrest authority on campus.
posted by mkb at 8:39 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm not seeing much on Japanese news sites about it, and I didn't feel it here in Tokyo. Must have been pretty small.

Pretty far north. USGS seems to classify it as being in Russia.
USGS
posted by VoteBrian at 8:39 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


WHDH: Large police presence at the MGH (Mass General) T-stop ... as well as at Mass. Ave. Bridge and the Salt-and-Pepper bridge.
posted by ericb at 8:41 PM on April 18, 2013


WHDH: "Large police presence at the MGH (Mass General) T-stop ... as well as at Mass. Ave. Bridge and the Salt-and-Pepper bridge.

If the police are trying to catch someone, it seems irresponsible for WHDH to report this.
posted by drezdn at 8:42 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


What is WHDH?
posted by toastedbeagle at 8:42 PM on April 18, 2013


Yes ... WHDH is the local NBC affiliate here in Boston.
posted by ericb at 8:45 PM on April 18, 2013


Basic timeline on MIT:

The 7-11 robbery was at 750 Mass Ave. at about 10:29PM. Hispanic male, cowboy hat, jeans. Thought to be on foot.

The first report of shots fired/officer down at MIT (32 Vassar) comes in at 10:32PM. Initial reports indicate someone in a vehicle, but no description or direction of travel.
posted by rollbiz at 8:46 PM on April 18, 2013


If the police are trying to catch someone, it seems irresponsible for WHDH to report this.

On the other hand, if one lived or worked in that area, I'm sure you would want to know that there's something going down so you can stay out of the way.
posted by donajo at 8:47 PM on April 18, 2013


MGH is the hospital across the river where the MIT Officer has been taken to. I don't think they're there to catch anyone. Maybe

Also my husband (MIT grad student) still hasn't come home from lab and won't pick up his phone and I know he's probably fine but arrrgh
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 8:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm going to refrain from posting some of what I'm hearing, but...the officer's injuries were serious.
posted by rollbiz at 8:49 PM on April 18, 2013


CNN is currently discussing the new high-res picture and how that can help lead next steps in tracking his "escape route."
posted by ericb at 8:50 PM on April 18, 2013


The suspect in the white hat in that high res NYT picture looks SO YOUNG. I know it's from a distance and everything but all I can think is he looks maybe 16.
posted by lullaby at 8:50 PM on April 18, 2013


So frustrating, TBDreamer! I'm sure he's fine. Hang out here til you hear from him.
posted by toastedbeagle at 8:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jesus, This Week, The Onion, 18 April 2013
According to a new poll by the Pew Research Center, when reached for comment on this week, 93 percent of Americans responded “Okay, enough’s enough here, you have seriously got to be kidding me with this week,” with 84 percent saying “Is it Sunday yet? What? How in the hell are we only at Thursday? What the hell is going on?” and 100 percent of Americans responding “No, no, go ahead, just pile some more horrific shit on this hellish shitshow of a week. Have at it.”
posted by ob1quixote at 8:51 PM on April 18, 2013 [25 favorites]


Note that the version of that hi-res image posted by the NYTimes is the full resolution original, with better quality than what was posted before.

Still a jpeg, albeit a *slightly* higher quality one. The first one was posted to Imgur, which adds its own compression to any uploads.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:52 PM on April 18, 2013


I'd have expected the bombing perps to be doing shots and high-fiving each other in an airport lounge somewhere faaaaar away by now. If instead they are blowing away a cop in Cambridge, that's surely bad news for the cop, but good news for the wheels of Justice.
posted by newdaddy at 8:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Update from emergency.mit.edu:
Thursday, April 18, 2013 11:41 PM
Update on shooter incident. Responding agencies continue to investigate the situation. The scene is outside of Building 32 (Stata) and 76 (Koch) near Vassar and Main Streets. Injuries have been reported. The situation is still very active and we ask everyone to stay inside.
posted by BobbyVan at 8:55 PM on April 18, 2013


It doesn't seem that the MIT thing is related. Just another crazy thing for this week.
posted by humanfont at 8:55 PM on April 18, 2013


My husband's theory is that the bombing perp is someone international, and that when that internationally-based person finally gets back to home country then they'll be all ha ha that was me oh can't touch this!
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 8:55 PM on April 18, 2013


Mod note: probably best to leave the MIT situation for now, it doesn't appear to be related to this post
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think it's way to early to even talk about whether the MIT shooting is related.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Sending you & yr husband so many safe thoughts, The Biggest Dreamer.
posted by sonika at 8:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


NBC Connecticut says the MIT officer has died.
posted by drezdn at 8:58 PM on April 18, 2013


...Welp, that's it. I'm done with humanity, I'm gonna turn myself into a dachshund.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:00 PM on April 18, 2013 [9 favorites]


If nobody minds, I'll take Corgi.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:01 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


The Biggest Dreamer, does your husband think the hypothetical internationally based individuals might be students in one of the Boston universities?
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:02 PM on April 18, 2013


My husband's theory is that the bombing perp is someone international, and that when that internationally-based person finally gets back to home country then they'll be all ha ha that was me oh can't touch this!

I'm sure SEAL Teams 1 through 5 would like a turn.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:02 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


So . . . good thing tomorrow's Friday eh?
One of my friends decided to run 26 miles to raise money for those affected by the tragedy in Boston this week. I dunno what the rules here are for linking to her page. But I thought it was a neat thing to do (I won't be doing it, because I'm much more of a fat@$$).
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 9:04 PM on April 18, 2013


Other news outlets here in Boston also confirm that the officer has died ... according to the District Attorney.
posted by ericb at 9:04 PM on April 18, 2013


My husband's theory is that the bombing perp is someone international, and that when that internationally-based person finally gets back to home country then they'll be all ha ha that was me oh can't touch this!

And I think drones were designed to give us the last laugh in that situation.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:05 PM on April 18, 2013


people think a missing Indian kid from Brown has reappeared as a bomber? Apparently CNN is saying this?

This is making me sick.
posted by sweetkid at 9:05 PM on April 18, 2013


The Biggest Dreamer, does your husband think the hypothetical internationally based individuals might be students in one of the Boston universities?

Can't say that has occurred to us...
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 9:05 PM on April 18, 2013


What a weird fucking week here in Boston.
posted by ericb at 9:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Apparently CNN is saying this?

I think after this week we can safely disregard anything CNN reports.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [18 favorites]


Can we call off April now, just stick a fork in it?
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


[probably best to leave the MIT situation for now, it doesn't appear to be related to this post]

There doesn't seem to be any way to know this at this point.
posted by rollbiz at 9:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN if you fuck this one up, what little remains of your credibility is officially gone.
posted by vuron at 9:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


On the other hand, Piers What'shisface is interviewing the guy who took the "fleeing Suspect #2" photo (the one the Redditors were discussing), and it's fairly interesting. This is the only pic he took.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:09 PM on April 18, 2013


CNN producers need to stop reading Reddit. I had it on earlier and the lady onscreen was smugly hinting about the (wrong) photos that the NYPost published, describing the two (innocent) men in some detail as if it was secret insider info for journalists only. Yuck.
posted by stopgap at 9:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


The best thing about this week is that it'll be over by monday.
posted by hoople at 9:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Building 32 - aka the Stata Center (as mentioned above) is the Frank Gehry designed building at MIT.
posted by ericb at 9:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Terrible building.. wish they had left the old temporary WWII wooden labs there instead. Now I've got to go look and see if MIT ever actually pursued that lawsuit against him.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:12 PM on April 18, 2013



Apparently CNN is saying this?

I think after this week we can safely disregard anything CNN reports.

I know but the fact that supposedly liberal people I grew up with on Facebook seem to not understand that Indians are not Arabs/Al Qaeda and it makes me want to scream/never leave my house.

Because that is pretty much a straight up Indian Hindu kid, the Brown kid.
posted by sweetkid at 9:15 PM on April 18, 2013


The MIT officer has apparently died.

.
posted by rollbiz at 9:16 PM on April 18, 2013


I just. I can't understand all this.
posted by sweetkid at 9:17 PM on April 18, 2013


This is now the seventh longest Metafilter thread ever.
posted by Jahaza at 9:17 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Apparently suspect in MIT shooting is unknown and at large. This is from WBZ.com

The Middlesex DA’s office says the officer was responding to a report of a disturbance in the area of Vasser and Main streets. Authorities found him with multiple gunshot wounds.

No arrest has been made and the search for a suspect or suspects is ongoing.
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:18 PM on April 18, 2013


crush-onastick, thank you so much for that linking to The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - and Why. Just finished it ... amazing read.
posted by cyndigo at 9:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


a . for the officer. The Campus Cops were always decent folks to students and handled a decidedly odd population with grace and humor
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:23 PM on April 18, 2013


.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:23 PM on April 18, 2013


So, that's the actual FBI-released photo, but the FBI had blacked out the surrounding area because it shows victims, I guess?

My guess is that it's to (a) reduce distraction and (b) forestall theories that implicate other people shown in the photo, which the internet unfortunately did not give the FBI any reason to think would not be the first thing that happened.
posted by Miko at 9:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Again... take it all with a grain of salt... WCVB is showing footage of a number of fire engines gong beyond the shooting crime seen up Vassar Street. Another wave of police vehicles. Something immediate? A heightened situation?
posted by ericb at 9:24 PM on April 18, 2013


(This week has gone from fucking with my hometown to the specific neighborhood I grew up in. It can therefore really and truly go fuck itself.)
posted by rollbiz at 9:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


"This is now the seventh longest Metafilter thread ever."

That's bound to be my fault, isn't it?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:25 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


A column of State Trooper vehicles now heading into the same area. Report of suspicious package at Mass Ave. & Pleasant Street.
posted by ericb at 9:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Related ... or, overreaction?
posted by ericb at 9:27 PM on April 18, 2013


Basically I agree with Matthowie and I'm going to bed. All the same, given the circumstances (post terrorist strike, tippy-top alert) if somebody kills a cop in Cambridge and the culprit isn't in custody in the morning, that's going to look pretty bad for the local Force. Everyone's going to be all " this couldn't possibly be related to the... Naw, couldn't be, right?"
posted by newdaddy at 9:28 PM on April 18, 2013


WCVB is showing footage of a number of fire engines gong beyond the shooting crime seen up Vassar Street. Another wave of police vehicles. Something immediate? A heightened situation?
The scanner traffic included mention of a fire in the lobby of a building in the area. They also seem to be looking for a car driven around by men with guns.
posted by yz at 9:28 PM on April 18, 2013


Report of suspicious package at Mass Ave. & Pleasant Street.

There were tons of reports of suspicious packages after the marathon bombing, and all were eventually cleared. Eh..

The fact that no one's been getting caught, it's just nuts
posted by The Biggest Dreamer at 9:30 PM on April 18, 2013


Armed carjacking was reported on Memorial Drive. Two suspects, both apparently had guns.
posted by rollbiz at 9:31 PM on April 18, 2013


"Two Middle Eastern men" just reported by scanner to have carjacked a black Mercedes SUV in Cambridge. Both men reported to be armed with firearms. One is 5'7", another has "darker skin."
posted by BobbyVan at 9:31 PM on April 18, 2013


Damn ... I was hoping to watch my DVR'ed first episode of the new season of 'The Borgias', but have been sucked into all of this breaking news. Likely a late night!
posted by ericb at 9:31 PM on April 18, 2013


On scanner-A guy reported that the middle eastern guys with guns car-jacked him and when they slowed down he jumped out and ran.
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:32 PM on April 18, 2013


This is just a few blocks away. MIT emergency notifications woke me up and I can hear the helicopters and the police cars going towards MIT. I'm afraid to go back to bed. It's completely unreasonable because what can I really do even if I stay up, but this has all been too much. I want to feel safe in my own city again.
posted by Shusha at 9:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Mass Ave and Pleasant Street is Central Square, beyond the MIT campus. But not really near Memorial Drive (which runs along the river), for those not familiar with the area.
posted by stopgap at 9:33 PM on April 18, 2013


My guess is that it's to (a) reduce distraction and (b) forestall theories that implicate other people shown in the photo,

Maybe, but I suspect they did it because the whole Richard family is there. And victims, I'm sure, I don't know. They didn't give this treatment to the other photos. I also suspect this is why they didn't release the video of that sighting; it must be very disturbing. :(
posted by torticat at 9:35 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sorry, and other victims, I meant in that second sentence.
posted by torticat at 9:40 PM on April 18, 2013


    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.
 Yeats
posted by five fresh fish at 9:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


The suspicious package report at Pleasant Street has been cleared.
posted by ericb at 9:44 PM on April 18, 2013


"crush-onastick, thank you so much for that linking to The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - and Why. Just finished it ... amazing read."

Yeah, I was going to say something earlier — I read it a couple years ago, I guess, and I liked it a lot. It's a little more "light" than I'd prefer — I prefer more heavily researched and authoritative non-fiction — but there's still a lot of interesting stuff in it that's very much worth learning.

What stays with me the most — and I'm curious if this is the case with you, having just finished it — is that the cliche of people panicking and running around dangerously is more often than not exactly the opposite of the truth. More likely, people are passive. They underestimate the danger they're in and they wait for someone to tell them what to do. And so often, sadly, they're standing around doing nothing until it's too late and they die.

The horrible Beverly Hills Supper Club fire is what I remember most, even more than the WTC stuff.

I now tend to associate that book with another of my favorites, Why Airplanes Crash, by Oster, Zorn, and Strong. It is, or was, considered authoritative. And they talk a lot about pilot error, which accounts for a huge chunk of crashes, and about the kinds of things that happened more frequently before crew resource management.

The common thread between the two is that people are more like cats than we imagine — we get fixated on things, we lose sight of the priorities in urgent and dangerous situations. As in combat or medicine or similar, relying upon people actually deliberating everything doesn't work — what works is training, training, and more training.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Shots fired at officers from inside the vehicle. Oh shit.
posted by RedShrek at 9:45 PM on April 18, 2013


And I think drones were designed to give us the last laugh in that situation.

No. Not a laughing matter.
"No more hurting people"
posted by de at 9:45 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Confirm I heard that as well, RedShrek.
posted by BobbyVan at 9:46 PM on April 18, 2013


Shots fired at officers from inside the vehicle. Oh shit.

I thought that was what I just heard. Jesus.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:46 PM on April 18, 2013


It's now in news sources, incidentally: "MIT Police Officer Shot, Killed" - Boston.com
posted by koeselitz at 9:47 PM on April 18, 2013


Explosions!
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:47 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm really curious as to how people can apparently identify a "Middle Eastern" person in absence of, like, an Arabic-language Lonely Planet guide on their person. I've never met anyone of a "Middle Eastern" background that couldn't also theoretically be Jewish-American, Latino/a, South Asian, Anglo, etc. based on appearance.
posted by threeants at 9:49 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


WCVB: New crime scenes at the Shell and Mobil stations on Memorial Drive.

If you are a criminal trying to do something wrong these days in Boston/Cambridge, you've fucked up.

Everyone is 'on fucking edge.' IDIOTS -- the EYES and EARS of the local, state and federal agencies are on you!
posted by ericb at 9:49 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Explosives and grenades what the fUCKKK
posted by RedShrek at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


If you are not listening now, consider logging in if you are following this. It is moving quickly.

Explosives and grenades. Jesus christ.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Cops reported "explosions" "some type of grenades" "shots fired". Total pandemonium.
posted by BobbyVan at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Police on scanner yelling "shots fired, multiple shots fired, explosions in Watertown."
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Holy crap gernades being used...
posted by vuron at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Logging in?
posted by koeselitz at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Loud explosion. Shots fired.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Shots fired, reports of grenades being used, area of Dexter Ave. in Watertown.

FUCK. That's 2 blocks from my aunts and their children.
posted by rollbiz at 9:50 PM on April 18, 2013


Jesus! I heard "explosives", "grenades", "loud explosions", "shots fired", "in between houses".
posted by VoteBrian at 9:51 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm sorry, not log in -- listen to the scanner linked above.
posted by Unified Theory at 9:51 PM on April 18, 2013


WTF Watertown? I did a film internship there...my time in Boston/Cambridge was idyllic. This is craziness.
posted by sweetkid at 9:51 PM on April 18, 2013


Where are y'all getting this info? I don't like these media circuses but pretty much all my people are in the Boston area and these comments about Cambridge, Watertown, etc. are starting to concern me a lot.
posted by threeants at 9:52 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm exhausted. Local/cable media are you fucking enflaming us? If so, FUCK YOU.

WCVB is reporting that if you are in Watertown, "STAY OFF THE ROADS." Crying wolf?
posted by ericb at 9:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Or here if you want local Boston news:
http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by torticat at 9:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Just heard on the scanner they stole a state police SUV!
posted by infinitewindow at 9:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Screaming cops. "Explosives, explosives". Suspects in black pickup Adams St. Get the eff off the street y'all.
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Where are y'all getting this info?

Police Scanner
posted by VoteBrian at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Boston police feed.
posted by drezdn at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspects stole SUV from State Police.
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Ambulance
posted by RedShrek at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


Looking at a map, Dexter Ave. is entirely residential. Ugh.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


I can't fucking believe this. My family is RIGHT THERE.
posted by rollbiz at 9:53 PM on April 18, 2013


There was a guy that sounded like a bad Jack Kennedy impression!
posted by drezdn at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Eyewitness Reports of a gunfight in watertown.
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Heard on police scanner: shots fired, explosions, and grenades.
posted by murfed13 at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013


They are asking for long guns.
posted by RedShrek at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Why has the Boston Marathon thread become the MIT thread?
posted by five fresh fish at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Reports of officer down.
posted by RedShrek at 9:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Jesus, listening to them, I can picture everywhere they're talking about.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Police are treating the MIT suspects as the Marathon suspects.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


They are asking for long guns.

Is that for taking ranged shots?
posted by drezdn at 9:55 PM on April 18, 2013


Why has the Boston Marathon thread become the MIT thread?

Because people have been monitoring the scanner for news of the suspects and gunshots and grenades just happened.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


[probably best to leave the MIT situation for now, it doesn't appear to be related to this post]

And you know this how?
posted by ericb at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


OMG, rollbiz, thinking of you and your family.
posted by toastedbeagle at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013


Hang in, rollbiz. Hoping (and likely) that it'll be okay. Thoughts your way.
posted by threeants at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013


I had that thought but thought maybe it was too neat, infinitewindow.
posted by Miko at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Because people think they might be related, fff.
posted by nat at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Undetonated ordinance in the street, thrown from a car.
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013


rollbiz: you have my prayers.
posted by hoople at 9:56 PM on April 18, 2013


This is beyond fucking crazy. Stolen Police SUV, Explosives, Officers down....
posted by vuron at 9:57 PM on April 18, 2013


Definately reports of a second officer down; automatic gunfire.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:57 PM on April 18, 2013


"Definitely hand grenades and automatic gunfire." -Scanner
posted by BobbyVan at 9:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I can't load the scanner for some reason, so thank you for relaying.
posted by Miko at 9:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Even if the Marathon and this are two totally unrelated incidents, it seems inevitable to (at least for now) file them both under Jesus Fucking Christ on a Sidecar What the Hell Does the Universe Have Against Boston This Week?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


Amazed at the calm on the scanner.
posted by eddydamascene at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


One suspect down on Laurel St
posted by infinitewindow at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


There are at least 20K people listening to the police scanner I'm on.
posted by drezdn at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


WCVB: "Undenoted devices in the street." WTF.
posted by ericb at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


dynamite in the street. I'm supposed to be writing and instead I'm worried about this.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


Wcvb - channel 5- has a reporter on the scene.
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


What in the effing fuck
posted by rtha at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


A suspect may be injured.
posted by drezdn at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


Cops being ordered back. Suspect may be injured. "All units retreat."
posted by BobbyVan at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Possible injured subject.
posted by eddydamascene at 9:59 PM on April 18, 2013


Dexter and Laurel. All units are being ordered to retreat and minimize radio traffic.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Officer down.
posted by toastedbeagle at 10:00 PM on April 18, 2013


White male. Something about pajamas.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Shit, and I was going to go to bed. Now this mess; too many friends in that area to sleep.
posted by nat at 10:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Something Awful poster who babysat for the family of the boy who died:

I'm home, now, so the only thing I'm in immediate danger of is an Armenian uprising. Which would at least be delicious.

I say that, and then there are sirens outside my door.

Scanner just announced they have grenades and explosives. Shots fired.

They're down the road from me.

All this is getting me pretty upset.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:00 PM on April 18, 2013


one is down and in custody.
posted by Justinian at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013


1 in custody
posted by toastedbeagle at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


From WCVB "What's being described as an IED is on Laurel"
posted by VoteBrian at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013


One in Custody, IED on Laurel st, One in an SUV.
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013


"There's an IED on our street honey!" -- citizen contact on WCVB
posted by dhartung at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013


Is this on tv anywhere? CNN has Texas.
posted by shothotbot at 10:01 PM on April 18, 2013


Location
posted by drezdn at 10:02 PM on April 18, 2013


This is insane. Right in my old neighborhood. This doesn't happen in Cambridge. This is obviously related to the bombing.

Wounded police evacuated.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:02 PM on April 18, 2013


NewsCenter 5 is doing live coverage that's a bit more coherent, if less direct, than the police scanner.

Ugh. Thinking of everyone in Watertown. I hope this is the end of the whole business, if this is related to the bombings, and that nobody else gets hurt.
posted by threeants at 10:03 PM on April 18, 2013


Is this on tv anywhere? CNN has Texas.

That's probably for the best.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:03 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


(Contact may be a reporter whose home this is outside.)
posted by dhartung at 10:03 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


OK, that's it. I've avoided it thus far this week, but I just give up. I'm going to get the whiskey.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:03 PM on April 18, 2013 [20 favorites]


Damn, they are ordering plain clothes officers to not go sneaking around inside permitter. Sounds they like are afraid of shooting each other.
posted by sideshow at 10:03 PM on April 18, 2013


CBS Boston is covering it.
posted by oulipian at 10:04 PM on April 18, 2013


White male, PJs, didn't they also say blonde?

shothotbot, local Boston TV here. They are interviewing a guy on location, taking cover, pretty intense.
posted by torticat at 10:04 PM on April 18, 2013


They are creating a perimeter around 98 Spruce. Two blocks, then four blocks.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:04 PM on April 18, 2013


98 Spruce is in Watertown?
posted by Unified Theory at 10:04 PM on April 18, 2013


On the scanner, they're asking if their cell phones could set off an IED.
posted by VoteBrian at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


"Will our cell phones inadvertently set these off?"

"It is possible."

Jesus.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Officer asking if cell phone might inadvertently set off IED. They are powering down all cell phones.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


"Power down all cell phones for fear of explosion" Whoa
posted by Yowser at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Gunfire, explosions reported around Dexter Street in Watertown.
posted by ericb at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


"One in custody at gunpoint"
posted by drezdn at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Second device may be near where the officer is down.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:05 PM on April 18, 2013


Apparently robot from city on site.
posted by vuron at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Awful. Hang in there, Boston, be safe.
posted by marimeko at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Everybody be okay, everybody be okay, please let everyone stay safe and okay.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [21 favorites]


Image supposedly from the scene.
posted by drezdn at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Did they say they have a robot in the area? (for disarming the bomb I'm guessing?)
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


City is bringing in a bomb disposal robot. One suspect is still at large.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Jesus, sounds like these guys scattered explosive devices as they drove.
posted by eddydamascene at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Device on ground at 543 Mt. Auburn.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Are there more than one scanner? I heard the order to power down cell phones but not the question about them.
posted by Justinian at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


White male, PJs, didn't they also say blonde?

Yes, I heard that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Got a suspect. Taking to hospital.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:07 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspect being brought to Beth Israel.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:07 PM on April 18, 2013


Lost my WCVB feed. Must be slammed.
posted by dhartung at 10:07 PM on April 18, 2013


a friend of mine used to work for the people who make those bomb disposal robots, doing programming beep boop stuff. Mark, man, I hope you're as good as your reputation.
posted by KathrynT at 10:07 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


One suspect injured, coming in to a nearby hospital.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:07 PM on April 18, 2013


Cambridge scanner says EOD going to Mt. Auburn and Uppland.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:08 PM on April 18, 2013


One live feed just said they were discarding "ordinance" out the car windows as they drove.
posted by faineant at 10:08 PM on April 18, 2013


Just finally got my aunts on the phone, ordered them to the basement with their kids. This is all right outside their home. Told them I loved them and then hung up because PD is saying not to use cell phones...

I have never been so scared in my fucking life.
posted by rollbiz at 10:08 PM on April 18, 2013 [15 favorites]


WCVB seems to sort of be downplaying the scene at MIT as unrelated. I'm really not convinced though.
posted by Miko at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013


gas smell reported on the news.
posted by empath at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013


There are at least 20K people listening to the police scanner I'm on.

Fifteen minutes later, there are now 40K.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


rollbiz, I am saying so many prayers right now, please everyone be safe.
posted by KathrynT at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


FBI on scene.

Got another suspect on ground at gunpoint.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


With ordinance? How can it be?
posted by nat at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013


This is just crazy. I feel like we are living in GTA:IV or something.
posted by feloniousmonk at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


One suspect down on the ground at gunpoint; not in custody yet.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013


White male, PJs, didn't they also say blonde?

If my disguise long-shot pays off, you all agreed you owe me a buck, right?
posted by dhartung at 10:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Apparently according to MIT, the suspect from over that way is still at large. Please be careful and safe, Cambridge, Watertown, Somerville people.
posted by threeants at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013


One suspect injured in custody, one suspect pinned down at gunpoint but technically not in custody.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Ah good rollbiz. Sorry, so terrifying; all the best to your family.
posted by torticat at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013


One in custody, one on ground at gunpoint not in custody.
posted by Unified Theory at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Mod note: we're over 3,500 comments now, can we maybe cut back on posting every single new thing that is happening in this? This is really what the chat server was designed for
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


With ordinance? How can it be?

Because Jesus, this week.
posted by Artw at 10:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Is this some kind of teenage/college militia or what? Jesus Fuck.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:11 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspects stole SUV from State Police.
are you shitting me
posted by Flunkie at 10:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Chat.metafilter.com
posted by empath at 10:12 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


rollbiz- I wish I could email you a shot of whiskey. Or a cookie.
posted by toastedbeagle at 10:12 PM on April 18, 2013


If my disguise long-shot pays off, you all agreed you owe me a buck, right?

Suspect #2 looks a bit like he's wearing nose and chin putty in this enhanced hi-res image from Reddit.
posted by palindromic at 10:13 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Is this local overreaction/hysteria? CNN and MSNBC are not covering it live. Only 20/20 will inform us.
posted by ericb at 10:14 PM on April 18, 2013


Boston reporter near the scene, reporting what he hears.
posted by drezdn at 10:15 PM on April 18, 2013


Okay ... CNN is now reporting live from Watertown.
posted by ericb at 10:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


CNN just went live.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:15 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reports of explosions right by the Harvard quad in Cambridge. Wow. Friends say they heard 4 booms.
posted by BobbyVan at 10:15 PM on April 18, 2013


Well, it is the police scanners talking about grenades and explosions. Media doesn't have to exaggerate much.
posted by M Edward at 10:16 PM on April 18, 2013


CNN and MSNBC are not covering it live.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that CNN and [insert media outlet] not covering something isn't indicative of a happening being highly pertinent.
posted by clearly at 10:16 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Funny enough its on our local, after primetime news here in Nor cal.
posted by Big_B at 10:17 PM on April 18, 2013


Suspect #2 looks a bit like he's wearing nose and chin putty in this enhanced hi-res image from Reddit.

I wouldn't be shocked if that's a wig too.
posted by drezdn at 10:18 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Boston Globe reporter: Handcuffed male being questioned by FBI in back of ambulance

posted by BobbyVan at 10:19 PM on April 18, 2013


MSNBC can now confirm a police officer was shot on campus. Thanks for the breaking news, guys. What was that, five hours ago?
posted by Justinian at 10:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


SethMnookin livetweeting from scene at MIT.
posted by Miko at 10:20 PM on April 18, 2013


Second suspect in custody, awaiting ID.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:20 PM on April 18, 2013


second suspect in custody! Did I just hear that right?
posted by Windigo at 10:20 PM on April 18, 2013


MSNBC can now confirm a police officer was shot on campus. Thanks for the breaking news, guys. What was that, five hours ago?

This seems like a childish complaint given the way we all completely excoriated CNN for flailing around about an arrested/not-arrested/made up suspect yesterday.
posted by sparkletone at 10:20 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


[we're over 3,500 comments now, can we maybe cut back on posting every single new thing that is happening in this? This is really what the chat server was designed for]

Seriously, what damage was done with a couple more comments posted? We know of at least one family that was warned to avoid using their cell phones. And it cost what... some additional scrolling required for everyone else?
posted by VoteBrian at 10:21 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Holy shit Boston, what the fuck. I've been reading Ant De Rosa and Seth Mnookin's feeds for live updates and things are just....nuts.

I should have just gone to sleep when I finished complaining about Harry Potter.
posted by Phire at 10:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


AKitz is near Laurel Street, with photos.
posted by drezdn at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013


He might have explosives strapped to his body.
posted by Windigo at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013


Now they are worried that they don't have the second suspect. May just be a witness.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013


Metafilter and Twitter are far ahead of the TV feed, which is a bit surreal.
posted by jokeefe at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


They may not have the second suspect. Shit man.
posted by RedShrek at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013


Now reports "they may not have the second suspect. He may still be out there."
posted by BobbyVan at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013


VoteBrian: "And it cost what... some additional scrolling required for everyone else?"

No, it cost making the thread huger and less and less possible to load, and probably means that a few hundred (maybe a few thousand?) more people will not see it.
posted by koeselitz at 10:24 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Update from police scanner: they might not have 2nd suspect in custody.
posted by murfed13 at 10:25 PM on April 18, 2013


Metafilter and Twitter are far ahead of the TV feed, which is a bit surreal.

The news outlets have the scanner too, but they have more production to do to get it to an audience. Good for us, we don't have to worry about production, editing, branding, stylesheets...
posted by Miko at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013


Meta-ish on huge threads.
posted by Artw at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013


We crashed chat.
posted by toastedbeagle at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013


you guys, chat is totally hopping and has all your live update out-freaking needs covered.
posted by KathrynT at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


A NYT reporter near the scene
posted by drezdn at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013


Police just loaded naked man into car.

posted by BobbyVan at 10:26 PM on April 18, 2013


Seth Mnookin ‏@sethmnookin 2m

"Police just loaded naked man into car."
posted by Windigo at 10:27 PM on April 18, 2013


From drezdn's link: "Also, officer just told me I should turn off my cell phone if I want to live."
posted by jokeefe at 10:29 PM on April 18, 2013


So all the reporters live-tweeting from the scene are ignoring the requests from the FBI to not use cell phones for fear of setting off explosive devices? Can that be right?
posted by mediareport at 10:29 PM on April 18, 2013


I'm seeing some people on twitter saying they are turning off their phones at police orders.
posted by gingerbeer at 10:30 PM on April 18, 2013


I love listening to live police radio with 50,000 other people, but is there a reason police don't encrypt that? Right now they're giving locations of possible suspects, which could potentially aid a tech savvy fugitive.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:30 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Andrew Kaczynski just tweeted that there's another active shooter.
posted by Phire at 10:30 PM on April 18, 2013


but is there a reason police don't encrypt that

I know Milwaukee does. Supposedly the encrypted systems don't work as well though.
posted by drezdn at 10:31 PM on April 18, 2013


They're shutting down a highway?

What's this about a children's hospital?
posted by Windigo at 10:32 PM on April 18, 2013


[we're over 3,500 comments now, can we maybe cut back on posting every single new thing that is happening in this? This is really what the chat server was designed for]

No. Some of us choose to not participate on the secondary chat server site.
posted by ericb at 10:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [14 favorites]


I think it's totally okay to disengage from this - frankly the chaos is so bad that I'm sure nobody, not even the cops, will know what happened tonight until this weekend at the earliest.

I am not helping anybody by being utterly confused and worried and lost in this chaos. Following this only serves to put me in a state of befuddlement, and I can't imagine that I'll find clarity any time tonight if I keep following this.

I can only say that I deeply hope and pray that everyone, including rollbiz and their family and everyone else in Boston, is safe when the dust settles.

Take care, folks. Good night.
posted by koeselitz at 10:33 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


I got out of bed because nothing on my tablet is working and things keep crashing. I'm extremely confused/upset and I can't get the scanners to work for some reason even on my comp.

Is this related to Boston? Were there explosions or is it just gunfire?
posted by Malice at 10:33 PM on April 18, 2013


The authorities figure it's better to have everyone on their side be able to talk to each other (relatively) easy than it is to keep out the "bad guys"
posted by sideshow at 10:34 PM on April 18, 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCt_9bWrpA&feature=youtu.be
posted by RedShrek at 10:34 PM on April 18, 2013


Police are saying Children's Hospital does not have shots fired, but it is on lockdown.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:36 PM on April 18, 2013


I finally got the scanner working - they just said they do NOT have a second suspect in custody like I read on another news page.
posted by Malice at 10:40 PM on April 18, 2013


Breaking Polic News in MA has updates and photos.
posted by drezdn at 10:40 PM on April 18, 2013


Second suspect appeared to have fled. Or some suspect fled.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:41 PM on April 18, 2013


[we're over 3,500 comments now, can we maybe cut back on posting every single new thing that is happening in this? This is really what the chat server was designed for]

Regarding MeFi chat -- many of us MeFites like to have our personal contributions in discussions 'recorded' for future 'historical context.'
posted by ericb at 10:41 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Is this related to Boston? Were there explosions or is it just gunfire?

The connection isn't clear. Witnesses reported they heard "booms" (not just gun fire). No injuries reported -- other than the MIT officer down, of course.
posted by murfed13 at 10:43 PM on April 18, 2013


Reddit live feed
posted by five fresh fish at 10:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also, I apologize for not turning to chat. Can't get it to work on iPhone, and the news is reported better here then anywhere else.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:44 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


I would love to get into chat but chat won't let me in. it's pissing me off.
posted by Trochanter at 10:45 PM on April 18, 2013


The connection isn't clear. Witnesses reported they heard "booms" (not just gun fire). No injuries reported -- other than the MIT officer down, of course.

Thanks for clarifying, murfed13.

Also, I apologize for not turning to chat. Can't get it to work on iPhone, and the news is reported better here then anywhere else.

I couldn't get it working on my tablet, either. In fact, I can't get it working on my computer, either. Guess it's overwhelmed?
posted by Malice at 10:45 PM on April 18, 2013


This is quite a clusterfuck. Information is extremely muddled.
posted by Miko at 10:46 PM on April 18, 2013


Is this related to Boston? Were there explosions or is it just gunfire?

My best understanding as of now (but this is all very confusing) is: (courtesy in part to illicet in chat)
- There was a shooting of an MIT cop at MIT
- The suspects stole a car (I've heard Police SUV?) leading to a car chase west along the Charles River to Watertown
- Grenades/explosives were scattered by the suspects during the chase, are still going off
- Some sort of shootout + explosions took place against the police
- A suspect is in custody, with a witnesses also in custody
- A suspect is not in custody
- The cops are concerned about IEDs; cell phones turned off, reports of bomb robots

I don't think anyone has said it's officially related to the marathon bombers, but I certainly hope that there's a limit to how many explosive-wielding folks there could possibly be in the Boston area.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 10:46 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


New York Times reporter: Local resident says two men threw what appeared to be "pressure cooker bomb" at police. Bomb robot still on Laurel St, he says.

posted by BobbyVan at 10:47 PM on April 18, 2013


Muddled info is all the more reason to not spam the thread with live feed updates. IMO, best to let things settle, and post substantive content a little later.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:48 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


Picture of suspect being arrested.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:50 PM on April 18, 2013


I think I speak for everyone when I say: what is this i don[t even...
posted by vibrotronica at 10:50 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Picture of suspect being arrested.

His hair is similar to the guy in the hi-res picture posted above, but I'd have to agree he would have to be wearing nose and chin putty to match that. If it is in fact related to Boston.
posted by Malice at 10:51 PM on April 18, 2013


Code Black at Mt. Auburn... Code Black could be a bomb code.
posted by drezdn at 10:51 PM on April 18, 2013


That looks like suspect #1
posted by Trochanter at 10:52 PM on April 18, 2013


Mod note: Chat FAQ info here, for a little help, but maybe make a Metatalk if you need more assistance. Since the thread is big, let's try to keep comments more info-focused, less chatty here
posted by taz (staff) at 10:52 PM on April 18, 2013


I hope the police catch those fuckers, if they're behind this.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


For the MetaChat on mobile/tablets you may be better off trying to find a Jabber/XMPP chat client and connecting directly. Web interfaces to XMPP chat have historically been a bit on the wonky side and the newer/nicer ones like MetaChat it using probably require recent browsers, good javascript performance, better network than cell phones provide, etc.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Best example of how muddled things are, even on the scene. Probably should wait until it all sorts out, but difficult to turn away b
posted by blahblahblah at 10:54 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


A suspect was described as a "clean shaven middle-eastern looking male". I'm guessing that's the one in the picture above.

What exactly are we allowed to post here now? The moderation is getting confusing, too.

For the MetaChat on mobile/tablets you may be better off trying to find a Jabber/XMPP chat client and connecting directly. Web interfaces to XMPP chat have historically been a bit on the wonky side and the newer/nicer ones like MetaChat it using probably require recent browsers, good javascript performance, better network than cell phones provide, etc.

It was working yesterday for me, and last week on both my comp and tab. Tonight it works on neither.

But I shall take that convo elsewhere!
posted by Malice at 10:55 PM on April 18, 2013


Reporter next to me just said on phone "Smell of gunpowder is overwhelming." There is absolutely no smell of gunpowder.
posted by drezdn at 10:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [5 favorites]


Ravi Somaiya tweets code black is bomb threat or bomb discovered
posted by Trochanter at 10:56 PM on April 18, 2013


I tried to go on chat and about had an anxiety attack, things were moving so fast. Is this the most people who have ever been signed in there at one time?
posted by torticat at 10:58 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


The MA police news tweeter claims Code Black in this situation may just mean the ER is closed.
posted by drezdn at 10:58 PM on April 18, 2013


boston.com has a twitter and photo feed up now.
posted by annsunny at 10:59 PM on April 18, 2013


Gunpowder smell was apparently a reference to another area. Not a stupid reporter.
posted by blahblahblah at 11:00 PM on April 18, 2013


Everyone be careful with photos of people being arrested.

WCVB reporter on scene: One person taken into custody earlier has already been released by police
posted by BobbyVan at 11:00 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Reporter next to me just said on phone "Smell of gunpowder is overwhelming." There is absolutely no smell of gunpowder.

I was listening to that feed - he was describing the situation when he arrived about an hour ago, not at the time.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:01 PM on April 18, 2013


FYI for those having chat troubles I did get the chat working in Internet Explorer oddly enough as opposed to Chrome.
posted by Malice at 11:01 PM on April 18, 2013


torticat, it was MUCH worse on election night.
posted by KathrynT at 11:03 PM on April 18, 2013


To all above: Thank you- My aunts are in a secure location in their home, and a relative is reading them my updates over a landline. It's a fucked up night, but they're all OK right now and that's paramount. They are right amidst the cordon right now.

Code Black at Mt. Auburn... Code Black could be a bomb code.

Code Black is usually a fatality.
posted by rollbiz at 11:04 PM on April 18, 2013 [14 favorites]


Reporter next to me just said on phone "Smell of gunpowder is overwhelming." There is absolutely no smell of gunpowder.

"@sethmnookin Maybe it's time to rethink your cologne."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152778880075249
posted by RedShrek at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone asked upthread what the "long guns" request was for. Long gun means something longer than a pistol, such as a rifle. That is, they were asking for the assault rifles, etc., so yes, for both shooting at targets farther away and also for shooting bullets that are much heavier and faster than those from a pistol.
posted by introp at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Code black means a million different things depending on the locality.
posted by incessant at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


If that Code Black was at Mt. Auburn Hospital, it could be "not accepting patients".

If it's a Code Black on Mt. Auburn Street (right in the middle of things here) it's probably a fatality.
posted by rollbiz at 11:08 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Code Black is usually a fatality.

Been watching for a status regarding the 'office down' we heard earlier. I really hope this isn't it.
posted by toastedbeagle at 11:08 PM on April 18, 2013


Code black means a million different things depending on the locality.

I live here, so I'm telling you what they mean here.
posted by rollbiz at 11:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [7 favorites]


WCVB reporter on scene: One person taken into custody earlier has already been released by police

Yes, apparently the guy on the ground they keep showing photo/video of was just a case of wrong place, wrong time.
posted by murfed13 at 11:09 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


torticat, you can turn off autoscroll in the chat with the control at the bottom that looks like a pair of up/down arrows.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:10 PM on April 18, 2013


Someone is live updating a summary of what they're hearing over the scanner audio feed:

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1cnwms/mods_removed_thread_live_updates_of_boston/
posted by Jacqueline at 11:11 PM on April 18, 2013


If that Code Black was at Mt. Auburn Hospital

I heard it come over and he specifically said "Mt. Auburn Hospital is Code Black." Also there's been no mention of any additional fatalities or even altercations since some time before that.
posted by Miko at 11:12 PM on April 18, 2013


chat has an ignore feature which is nice.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:13 PM on April 18, 2013


In that case, Miko, it's almost certainly that they're closing the hospital.
posted by rollbiz at 11:13 PM on April 18, 2013


chat has an ignore feature which is nice.

I'll try not to take that personally.

Not that you'd see this
posted by mazola at 11:13 PM on April 18, 2013


NY Times: Explosives Detonated in Massachusetts Standoff
posted by oulipian at 11:14 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, I think that was the implication as they then said it was on lockdown.
posted by Miko at 11:14 PM on April 18, 2013


Reading suspects name and DOB, apparently. Won't repeat in case it is an error/something else.
posted by blahblahblah at 11:15 PM on April 18, 2013


We don't know he was a suspect! He just got ID checked. That's not the same as being a suspect.
posted by Miko at 11:16 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


torticat, it was MUCH worse on election night.

Oh, ha, didn't think of election night!

zengargoyle, thanks, I finally did turn that off but then lost my connection and got booted off right after. It's okay, I think I need to get to bed anyway, hard as it is to pull away.
posted by torticat at 11:16 PM on April 18, 2013


78,000 listening to the scanner feed!
posted by Big_B at 11:17 PM on April 18, 2013


Miko. Agree. No idea who that was. Not repeating name for that reason.

Okay, good night all. Please stay safe.
posted by blahblahblah at 11:18 PM on April 18, 2013


The FBI just released new photos of the suspects.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:19 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


@GlobeJenPeter A marathon suspect is in custody as manhunt continues for another in Watertown, according to official with knowledge of the investigation.
posted by drezdn at 11:20 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


Some useful links if you're just tuning in:
- Boston.com has a story summarizing some of what has happened in a coherent fashion.
- They also have a live set of tweets from their reporters, which is the most up-to-date
- This video (not graphic) has the sounds of a serious shootout from earlier tonight.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:22 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


Just got awakened by a text from the Harvard emergency messaging system and I can hear helicopters overhead. This all seems to be happening like a mile from my house, which is disturbing.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I keep thinking back to the LAPD/Dorner catastrofuck, and good god the Boston PD are doing such an outstanding job compared to that while dealing with so much more chaos. I'm really impressed with how (by admittedly sparse and confused accounts) they're handling this.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:23 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


"The FBI just released new photos of the suspects."

They labeled both of those photos "Suspect 1", though they're clearly both of them.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:23 PM on April 18, 2013


Boston Globe also reporting bombing suspect in custody.
posted by annsunny at 11:27 PM on April 18, 2013


"New York Times reporter: Local resident says two men threw what appeared to be "pressure cooker bomb" at police. Bomb robot still on Laurel St, he says."

If true, that could make it easier to link the suspects to the other bombs.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:29 PM on April 18, 2013


Twitter pic of an errant bullet that entered a guy's apartment:
posted by Windigo at 11:30 PM on April 18, 2013


What a relief.

But what a nightmare of a night.
posted by torticat at 11:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm about as unimpressed with the male WCVB newcaster as I am impressed with the female newscaster. The guy is bugging me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:31 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can someone direct me to a live streaming news channel? I don't have a tv.
posted by phaedon at 11:31 PM on April 18, 2013


‏@sethmnookin "FBI agents walked by averted their eyes from cameras; Boston pd looked bemused."
posted by Trochanter at 11:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


WCVB
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


@phaedon

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by RedShrek at 11:32 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


People reporting from Watertown on twitter
posted by drezdn at 11:33 PM on April 18, 2013


Boston Globe front page says "An official with knowledge of the investigation said a Marathon bombing suspect is in custody," big headline "A Marathon bombing suspect is in custody."
posted by oulipian at 11:33 PM on April 18, 2013


According to WHDH news, the captured suspect was injured and has died.
posted by SemiSophos at 11:33 PM on April 18, 2013


What a relief.

But what a nightmare of a night.

Only one of 'em
posted by Trochanter at 11:33 PM on April 18, 2013


From the Globe, "One marathon suspect has been captured, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation."

This sounds familiar.

Can someone direct me to a live streaming news channel? I don't have a tv.

Without proper linking, for speed:

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
http://boston.cbslocal.com/live-video/
http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon
http://www.wwhdtv.com/cnn-news-live-streaming/

I was watching all four but I'm going to bed.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:34 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's not over.
posted by Miko at 11:34 PM on April 18, 2013


Yeah, one in custody ... still looking for number 2.
posted by ericb at 11:34 PM on April 18, 2013


Redditor says it all:
EDIT 2:27 EST: Reports of shots fired at Aberdeen & Mr. Auburn.
EDIT 2:29 EST: NBC is showing a cat screaming NO! while being put into a tub...
posted by dhartung at 11:34 PM on April 18, 2013 [10 favorites]


Seth Mnookin ‏@sethmnookin "Likely staging area will be Arsenal Mall. Two suspects accounted for. "

Praise be?
posted by Trochanter at 11:35 PM on April 18, 2013


[Chat FAQ info here, for a little help, but maybe make a Metatalk if you need more assistance. Since the thread is big, let's try to keep comments more info-focused, less chatty here]

Mods: Chat won't work for me and I'd really appreciate a little leeway here. This post and the scanner feed are how I am getting info relayed to my family in the affected area.
posted by rollbiz at 11:35 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


There are a pair of folks doing live transcription of police scanners in ##bostonscanner on Freenode IRC, which is another great source of information.
posted by SemiSophos at 11:36 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston Globe is the only major newspaper/network I see headlining this yet, interesting. (I do trust their source is solid.)
posted by torticat at 11:36 PM on April 18, 2013


"According to WHDH news, the captured suspect was injured and has died."

That's not good, if true. I mean, assuming he was guilty of the bombing, I'm not unhappy that he's dead. But I find that I'd rather have a live suspect to arrest and interrogate and try than a death.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:36 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


That's not good, if true.

Agreed, but what are you going to do?
posted by Trochanter at 11:39 PM on April 18, 2013


‏@sethmnookin I know http://Boston.com is reporting suspect related to Marathon. Response at scene certainly indicates - but I haven't gotten word.

@sethmnookin This is classic I'd rather be late and right scenario. It doesn't matter who's first by five minutes; it does matter if bad info given out.

This is the guy to follow.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:40 PM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Police Scanner has all but confirmed that they're after the marathon bombers
posted by Yowser at 11:50 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Missing suspect, per scanner, is the male in the white hat from the photos released by the FBI.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:50 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


If nothing else, it seems the speculation that these guys were rank amateurs was way, way off.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


The NYT has some details on what happened in their new story.

The two were behind a black Mercedes and exchanging gunfire with many police about 70 yards away and the police drove an SUV at them — the pair fired at it repeatedly and it went of control and crashed into two cars in the driveway of the witness. You should read the three paragraphs that follow.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:52 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


"If nothing else, it seems the speculation that these guys were rank amateurs was way, way off."

I don't see any evidence of that.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:53 PM on April 18, 2013 [9 favorites]


If nothing else, it seems the speculation that these guys were rank amateurs was way, way off.

I'm not sure they weren't. I think it's all still consistent with being a nutjob, and I don't think we've seen any amazing display of technical warcraft here tonight. Has weapons, is desparate = nasty standoff.
posted by Miko at 11:54 PM on April 18, 2013


Twitter pic of an errant bullet that entered a guy's apartment:

Man! If he'd hung his calendar about two inches higher...
posted by rifflesby at 11:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [12 favorites]


skygazer had the line of the day in the chatroom: Pressure cookers will require background checks before guns will.
posted by Trochanter at 11:55 PM on April 18, 2013 [11 favorites]


If they were pros they would've gotten out of Boston ASAP.
posted by PenDevil at 11:56 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


I haven't commented yet, but... THE FUCK!

I have no words.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 11:57 PM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Seriously. They missed their window.
posted by Miko at 11:58 PM on April 18, 2013


"If they were pros they would've gotten out of Boston ASAP."

They would have done a lot of things different.

WCVB says that the police just verified that the MIT shooting and the rest is connected. Sounds like perhaps the MIT cop had an unexpected encounter with them. Maybe recognized them?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:58 PM on April 18, 2013


Let me clarify: I'm not saying they're elite special operators, but neither are they the bumbling terrorists (the Shoe Bomber, the Times Square Bomber) we've seen in the past. They were organized, well equipped and committed.

In any case, we'll know a lot more soon enough, and my speculation isn't worth a lot right now.
posted by BobbyVan at 11:59 PM on April 18, 2013


skygazer had the line of the day in the chatroom: Pressure cookers will require background checks before guns will.

Nah... I vote:

golden eternity: The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a pressure cooker bomb, is a good guy with a pressure cooker bomb
posted by mazola at 11:59 PM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


But I find that I'd rather have a live suspect to arrest and interrogate and try than a death.

This isn't the kind of crime where they give you a trial in this country.
posted by ryanrs at 12:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Maybe they were going to plant more bombs?
posted by Kevin Street at 12:00 AM on April 19, 2013


You know, if this was a movie, people would be complaining about how "over-dramatic" and "Hollywood" it was.

Life, man. So fucking weird.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 12:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]


Reddit will be spanking themselves empty when the missing Brown student ends up being suspect # 2. Oh...Police have already mentioned his name.
posted by qinn at 12:02 AM on April 19, 2013


Well I mean if the police made visual contact with both suspects, which it sounds like they did, then they've established a perimeter and this is just a matter of time.
posted by phaedon at 12:02 AM on April 19, 2013


If they were pros they would've gotten out of Boston ASAP.
---
WCVB says that the police just verified that the MIT shooting and the rest is connected. Sounds like perhaps the MIT cop had an unexpected encounter with them. Maybe recognized them?

I'm wondering if they were planning another bombing at MIT and the officer there caught them and interrupted it. They stayed in Boston, had more bombs on hand... their plan could have been as simple as sticking around to do as much damage to Boston as possible until stopped.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reddit will be spanking themselves empty when the missing Brown student ends up being suspect # 2. Police have already mentioned his name.

I had an intuition early on that the suspects would be young. What a shame if it ends up being true.
posted by phaedon at 12:04 AM on April 19, 2013


"...but neither are they the bumbling terrorists (the Shoe Bomber, the Times Square Bomber) we've seen in the past. They were organized, well equipped and committed."

They planned this and were prepared, about like the Columbine duo, but these guys were more careful to build bombs that worked. Otherwise, they are comparable with regard to being willing, perhaps determined, to go down shooting.

But they didn't have external support and they didn't have training in all this.

I'm not convinced that they won't turn out to be ideologically motivated (terrorists), but I'm starting to lean toward the mentality of the Columbine duo.

But, yeah, most of these nuts are just screw-ups, basically. But a small portion of them are motivated and careful and competent enough to be as much a danger to others as they are themselves.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Watertown residents just got a call from the Watertown police saying to stay inside and to lock our doors. This is a hell of a thing to wake up to. Going to read all the previous comments now, and try to ignore the sound of screeching tires. Ugh,
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Reddit will be spanking themselves empty when the missing Brown student ends up being suspect # 2. Police have already mentioned his name.

Well, they shouldn't be spanking themselves. It never hurts to refrain from plastering the name of a potentially innocent person all over the place. It's not like the FBI weren't aware of the various theories being propagated there.
posted by threeants at 12:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The dispatcher just said suspect 2 is the missing Brown student, Sunil Tripathi. He'd been previously identified by Reddit contributors as a possible suspect. Another photo of Tripathi.

Dispatcher now says they're in a foot pursuit, and instructing "only SWAT assets" pursue the suspect.
posted by BobbyVan at 12:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


They lit a bomb and threw it at the police, like in a cartoon?
posted by XMLicious at 12:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


If nothing else, it seems the speculation that these guys were rank amateurs was way, way off.

Still not close to the Starkweather/Fugate body count.
posted by dhartung at 12:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I got the breaking news from "Binders Full of Women" on facebook. Haven't really confirmed on any reputable sites, but just searched here for the name, hemmed and hawed for a few minutes, and saw BobbyVan's comment. Pretty amazing to see news unfold like this and feel like rapid justice is approaching; pretty terrifying to imagine which pre-set war scenario / agenda this might be used to "catalyze."
posted by lordaych at 12:07 AM on April 19, 2013


I don't know. This Tripathi goes underground a month ago? That's way more pro than Columbine.

Bit scary, really.
posted by Trochanter at 12:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I really hope it isn't the case, and I haven't been following things as closely as some (read: all) of y'all... but does it look like the suspects are MIT students of some sort?

I've heard horror stories about the stress that school puts on people* and I truly hope this isn't some brilliant mind(s) that cracked in an awful, terrible, and violent way.

*A quick and dirty example with data, I'm sure more is out there for the picking but it's late.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:10 AM on April 19, 2013


Two more things:
  1. It is weird watching the news people broadcasting for a manhunt a quarter fucking mile from my apartment.
  2. Fuck these jackasses.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


"The dispatcher just said suspect 2 is the missing Brown student, Sunil Tripathi. He'd been previously identified by Reddit contributors as a possible suspect. Another photo of Tripathi."

Wow. But following that link, that top-left photo really looks very much like suspect 2.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Holy shit, y'all.
posted by subbes at 12:12 AM on April 19, 2013


Okay, this is officially unfuckingbelievable.
posted by torticat at 12:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]


You know, if this was a movie, people would be complaining about how "over-dramatic" and "Hollywood" it was.

It's only a matter of time until it is a movie, and we do.
posted by Miko at 12:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


The future has turned out to be a lot weirder than I expected.
posted by scody at 12:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]


Let's keep in mind that just because someone "said" or "confirmed" that suspect #2 is Tripathi doesn't necessarily mean it's true. For real.
posted by threeants at 12:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


[probably best to leave the MIT situation for now, it doesn't appear to be related to this post]

How sure are you? Willing to bet your opinion up there with the recent reporting of CNN and the NY Post these past few days?
posted by ericb at 12:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


I've heard some people listening on the scanner say they heard it, and some said they didn't hear it. I went back to CNN myself. Wait and see or maybe someone can produce a recording.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:17 AM on April 19, 2013


Man, right now I've got five tabs open dealing with what's going on; all I really want to do is go look at cute animal pictures for a while and then go to sleep with the blankets up over my head, but I can't stop reading/watching things unfold. This all feels so surreal, and I'm off safe in Pittsburgh - I can't imagine what it's like for people actually near the scene.

Be safe, Elementary Penguin, and the rest of you who are close by or have family/friends in the area.
posted by DingoMutt at 12:17 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, that boy has a family who have been going crazy about his absence. I prefer to err on the side of preventing unnecessary suffering for them.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


"Let's keep in mind that just because someone "said" or "confirmed" that suspect #2 is Tripathi doesn't necessarily mean it's true. For real."

Definitely. But I'm just flabbergasted that he looks so much like 2. Something's different about the brow. But when I read about that theorizing on Reddit, I just assumed it was total bunk. I completely didn't know that there was that much of a resemblance.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:19 AM on April 19, 2013


They packed someone in a police car nude.
posted by user92371 at 12:19 AM on April 19, 2013


Suspect 2 / Sunil Tripathi comparison
posted by Rhomboid at 12:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Let's keep in mind that just because someone "said" or "confirmed" that suspect #2 is Tripathi doesn't necessarily mean it's true. For real.

I just watched this video and I'm utterly convinced it's the same person in the photos. A few images in is an angle that replicates one of the FBI angles, and I find it pretty unmistakeable.
posted by Miko at 12:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wait, about the Tripathi kid. If the FBI was involved with his family in the search for him, wouldn't they know what he looked like? Did they not put 2 and 2 together?
posted by torticat at 12:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


imagine which pre-set war scenario / agenda this might be used to "catalyze."
None. As bad as this Columbine 2.0 nightmare is, nobody is about to be bombed for revenge sake. In the new today, this is the "best" outcome. As for his survival... I'm not sure we need to have a new celebrity killer around. We've got plenty, no?
posted by qinn at 12:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Firefight Video
posted by lordaych at 12:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


They packed someone in a police car nude.

WTF?
posted by homunculus at 12:21 AM on April 19, 2013


nude, so you know they aren't wearing a suicide vest.
posted by KathrynT at 12:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Did they not put 2 and 2 together?

Did we not have a big stink at MIT on the day afer the attack? Did sources not leak to CNN that they were about to make an arrest?
posted by Trochanter at 12:24 AM on April 19, 2013


So, what, they stripped him?
posted by homunculus at 12:24 AM on April 19, 2013


They packed someone in a police car nude.

Like, just now? Earlier in this whole thing, there were reports of someone arrested after ordered to strip who was a mistaken arrest and let go. I've seen on Twitter that some news outlets have been replaying that footage well after the incident, causing confusion.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:25 AM on April 19, 2013


NBC News: Sources say pressure cooker was found at the scene in #Watertown. #7News
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Jesus, that video, maybe it's echos but it sounds like a heap of shots were fired. Not just a few, not a couple, not a clip, but multiple tens of rounds. Sounded like pistol fire so I'm guessing the officers put in a sustained volley at the suspects. Serious business.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:26 AM on April 19, 2013


@davidwade: Police walking the banks of the Charles River in Watertown with flashlights searching. #wbz
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:28 AM on April 19, 2013


The gunfire reminds me of the various Arab spring shootouts, particularly Egypt. That's probably hyperbolic but holy crap.
posted by lordaych at 12:28 AM on April 19, 2013


If the FBI was involved with his family in the search for him, wouldn't they know what he looked like?

The FBI is not one guy; it's thousands of individuals. They don't all know what everyone is up to.
posted by stopgap at 12:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Guardian, as ever, with a vetted (or at least, unvetted-with-caveat) liveblog.
posted by OHSnap at 12:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Earlier in this whole thing, there were reports of someone arrested after ordered to strip who was a mistaken arrest and let go.

Awkward.
posted by homunculus at 12:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


If it is the Brown student, for some reason I feel even worse for his poor family than I would have otherwise. To go from looking for a missing family member to this is just ... well, it's heartbreaking. For them.

But it's always heartbreaking and horrifying for family. They get blamed and ostracized and they blame themselves and, ultimately, the perpetrator hurts them in some sense as badly as they hurt their intended victims. Which maybe is a clue, I guess.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


My family is still safe, they got the reverse 911 and they are in a secure place in their home. That's about all I want to say in any venue.

Please continue to post here in case I miss anything. Right now I am relaying through a relative that has them on a landline, and I don't want to miss anything pertinent as this is all very, very, close to their home.
posted by rollbiz at 12:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


I watched the video Sunil's family put up asking him to come home (when he was just missing). Completely heartbreaking.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:32 AM on April 19, 2013


I cannot believe how this is unfolding, and that we are getting primary source accounts (video/audio/text) in real time.

It sounds like they had a lot of bombs with them and were out to do something awful. The police officer who was shot to death at MIT may very likely have saved a lot more lives and further carnage.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Ivan, watching the video basically saying they love him and please come home... as heartbreaking as anything.
posted by dhartung at 12:33 AM on April 19, 2013


Also, to those of you in the middle of this, and with loved ones in the middle of this, peace and safety to you all.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


If the FBI was involved with his family in the search for him, wouldn't they know what he looked like?

The FBI is not one guy; it's thousands of individuals. They don't all know what everyone is up to.

Also, even if they strongly suspected it was him, they couldn't confirm from blurry images and still needed to release the photos of the suspects for tips and to get higher-resolution accidental snapshots from citizens, and it's smart and safe in that situation to just never bring him up. The FBI personnel in charge of this have been excellent about erring on the side of caution with sensitive info during this whole thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The theory being that the MIT cop interrupted the planting of devices there, LooseFilter? That's an interesting one I hadn't though of.
posted by Justinian at 12:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


News conference gathering at Carter store, at the Watertown Mall.
posted by mayurasana at 12:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ivan, this kid looks like he was a serious, smart amateur. He was on a mission. I'm starting to think you've got to move this into the political column.
posted by Trochanter at 12:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston NBC News Feed
posted by lordaych at 12:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Justinian, yes. Certainly seems like he either happened on something bad, or simply recognized them and was promptly shot to death. Either way, that incident seems to have sent the bombers' evening askew.

(at least, with the limited and confusing information we have now.)
posted by LooseFilter at 12:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's the link with the photo comparison of Sunil Tripathi and suspect #2. The figure in the suspect photo looks thinner and perhaps grungy and in need of sleep) but it's him.

This is a really bright guy who was majoring in philosophy with "impeccable" grades, and what looks like a whole group of people who cared about him pretty deeply. So what happened here??
posted by Skygazer at 12:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


WCVB is reporting that suspect 1 (black hat) is dead and suspect 2 (white hat) is still being chased on foot at Watertown.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:39 AM on April 19, 2013


They don't all know what everyone is up to.

No, but. WOW. I mean, they held a major news conference to publicize blurry, pixelated pictures of the guy and appeal to the nation to identify him. Did one of the agents on the Tripathi case then send an email saying "Uh, we know who that guy is, and we've got some clearer pictures of him too"? This is going to come across, at least, as seriously inept.

Also, even if they strongly suspected it was him, they couldn't confirm from blurry images and still needed to release the photos

Um, you don't think the FBI has the resources to match up the images and determine whether it's the same guy? They have video of him planting the bomb for christs sake. They could have asked his family to confirm!
posted by torticat at 12:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Reporter on Channel 5 says her sources have confirmed that suspect 1, black hat, is dead.
posted by camneely at 12:40 AM on April 19, 2013


They "have the perimeter" and will be going street-by-street, house-by-house ... waiting until daylight?
posted by user92371 at 12:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm starting to think you've got to move this into the political column.

I think so, too. Philosophy major from Brown? Not stupid. Disappeared a month ago? Clearly very premeditated and carried out over at least weeks, likely longer, so very likely not mental illness.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:40 AM on April 19, 2013


Sky News in the UK are being very cautious and only reporting one arrest and still searching for one other suspect. Still saying Police warning each other on scanners not to open fire on each other....
posted by Wilder at 12:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The warning to not to shoot each other was repeated not long ago.
posted by sideshow at 12:43 AM on April 19, 2013


"Jesus, that video, maybe it's echos but it sounds like a heap of shots were fired. Not just a few, not a couple, not a clip, but multiple tens of rounds."

I could be mistaken, this isn't anything I have any experience with and it's just something I heard a long time ago, but it's my understand that police are trained that, if they end up in firing at a suspect, particularly if they're being fired upon or otherwise in deadly peril, they use overwhelming deadly force, emptying their clips.

Because one thing I do know is that the majority of gunshot victims, most of whom have only one or a few gunshot wounds, don't even know they've been shot for up to a minute afterward, even when it's a fatal wound (not including a brain or heart injury, of course). It's not at all like movies because Newton's third law. People don't go flying backward unless you're shooting a gun that would make you go flying backward (with a few exotic exceptions). The point is that if you really and truly want to put someone down with your handgun, you shoot them a lot.

And the reports are that they were exchanging gunfire with numerous police. So that would add up to a huge number of shots fired. But I mostly know jack about guns. (However, the gunshot victim stuff comes from one of the most comprehensive studies of what happens in the short term to gunshot victims and when they know they've been shot. That's pretty reliable.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


It sounds like they had a lot of bombs with them and were out to do something awful.

Yeah. It looks like the reason they hadn't gotten the hell out of Dodge was that they had more damage to do. It might have been a suicide mission from the start, just a slowly unfolding one. For maximum drama. Fuckers.
posted by torticat at 12:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Does anyone know what "the perimeter" is? I'm wondering how long I am trapped in my house.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Ivan, yea that mirrors what I've heard about gunshot wounds as well. I'm not as privy to police tactics/SOP but it doesn't sound surprising to be honest.

It's just surreal to hear that outside of war footage clips or a movie theater.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:45 AM on April 19, 2013


Um, you don't think the FBI has the resources to match up the images and determine whether it's the same guy? They have video of him planting the bomb for christs sake. They could have asked his family to confirm!

And that still wouldn't be a 100% positive identification, just "this guy really really looks like him". Family confirmation couldn't even be trusted 100%, because their feelings will skew their perceptions in a situation like this. And with anything less than 100%, it's the right thing to do to withhold the name when the guy may be a bomber or may genuinely be in distress and in need of help.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


"Directed fire vs. suppressive fire"
posted by lordaych at 12:45 AM on April 19, 2013


WCVB/ABC News: Suspect #1 killed; Suspect #2 on the run in/from Watertown.
posted by ericb at 12:47 AM on April 19, 2013


From the Reddit thread, which is worth following:

3:45 EST: Perimeter is on lock down. They seem to be waiting till daylight to continue the search.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:48 AM on April 19, 2013


This was the permitter earlier, but it sounds like it was expanded.

http://i.imgur.com/wrJusck.png
posted by sideshow at 12:49 AM on April 19, 2013


Penguin: reporters keep getting moved around, so fluid.
posted by dhartung at 12:49 AM on April 19, 2013


Sounds like there's a lot of house-to-house searching within the perimeter still, though they're waiting for daylight to ratchet up the search effort: @RedCrossEastMA: Police: Stay inside #Watertown Only answer door for police. Update your social media saying you're OK when you're OK
posted by jason_steakums at 12:50 AM on April 19, 2013


House-to-house backyard searching at Dexter/Fairfield .... big houses there, only a block from the big firefight earlier. Don't know how large perimeter is. "Drive the perimeter and make sure there are no gaps." map
posted by user92371 at 12:50 AM on April 19, 2013


Does anyone know what "the perimeter" is? I'm wondering how long I am trapped in my house.

This Google Map has locations of activity as reported on the scanner.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 12:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Elementary Penguin - according to the scanner feed there is a 20 block perimeter in the vicinity of the Arsenal Mall, if that helps.
posted by islander at 12:51 AM on April 19, 2013


Thanks, all. A few hundred feet away. Jesus. This week.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


WCVB announce a controlled detonation around Dexter/Laurel st very shortly, to be preceded by air horn.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:53 AM on April 19, 2013


3:50 EDT: They requested a tactical bear to move/dispose of bombs. - reddit

What's a "tactical bear"?
posted by _paegan_ at 12:53 AM on April 19, 2013


According to Boston news station,they are getting ready to do a controlled detonation,trying to warn Watertown residents, air horn will sound first.

Stay safe, please MeFites.
posted by SuzySmith at 12:53 AM on April 19, 2013


Jesus. This week night.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:54 AM on April 19, 2013


over in chat there's a pic posted...tactical bear is a swat truck
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston Globe 1: arrested 1: at large.

Rt.com & Gawker listing Brown Uni student missing 1 month a suspect.

http://rt.com/usa/boston-bombing-suspect-custody-101/
posted by tilde at 12:55 AM on April 19, 2013


thanks to thack3r.... tactical bear
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Christ. Stay safe, Elementary Penguin.
posted by brennen at 12:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


LooseFilter: "From the Reddit thread, which is worth following:

3:45 EST: Perimeter is on lock down. They seem to be waiting till daylight to continue the search."

That thread just said the police requested a "tactical bear". If that's a grizzly, I think this is going to be over very soon.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


_paegan_, Lenco is a company in Massachusetts that makes a tactical vehicle called a BearCat.
posted by RichardP at 12:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Oh, with regard to the missing student, I was going to mention that about a half-an-hour ago WCVB was talking to one of their reporters and asked her if she'd heard a name for 2. I wasn't listening to what came before so I don't know what prompted them to ask this — what I noticed was that they were repeating over and over that they have been and are still being very careful about this stuff and not saying things they've not confirmed. Anyway, the reporter was extremely reluctant to answer but said, yeah, she'd heard a name.

I guess the police could have gotten a name for someone else from some other source, but my thought was that this fits that they think it's the student but aren't going to say until they get him (because, if true or they think it's true, they don't need to release that name).
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:59 AM on April 19, 2013


Tactical bear.
posted by MuffinMan at 12:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Two swat teams are going into a building where motion detectors have gone off. Also stating multiple explosive devices on streets of Watertown.
posted by SuzySmith at 12:59 AM on April 19, 2013


Contained detonation at Laurel Street, Watertown, MA scheduled soon.Residents to be notified and air-horn warning.
posted by ericb at 12:59 AM on April 19, 2013


Tactical bear.

The Incredible Story of Wojtek, the Soldier Bear

Previously.
posted by homunculus at 1:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Boston Scanner ‏@BostonScanner 6m
WATERTOWN: (Update) Guy has locked himself in a conference room at a company on Talcott. Motion detectors going off inside, help coming.
posted by lordaych at 1:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, he's not coming out of that building alive.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:03 AM on April 19, 2013


"Disturbance or armed robbery in Cambridge which the MIT officer responded to" — WCVB, says confirmed from multiple law enforcement sources. Also confirmed that connected to marathon bombing.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:03 AM on April 19, 2013


The WCVB in ABC seems to only have a write-and-run report of the death of suspect 1.

Is anyone else definitively reporting suspect 1's death?
posted by mistersquid at 1:03 AM on April 19, 2013


So, does he want a blaze of glory?

I think the other one surrendered. (But he may have been mortally wounded.)
posted by Trochanter at 1:04 AM on April 19, 2013


Well, he's not coming out of that building alive.

Which is infuriating, because I want to know why they did it.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]


"Is anyone else definitively reporting suspect 1's death?"

Commissioner just tweeted it.

ericb, you've made your point. Valid point, but you've made it. :)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:04 AM on April 19, 2013


Tactical Bear: A sort of SWAT vehicle that can carry bomb robots or be used to hold explosives:
posted by Skygazer at 1:06 AM on April 19, 2013


mistersquid:

WCVB-TV Boston twitter: 4am Update: Two #Marathon bombing suspects were involved in MIT Shooting, car jacking and Watertown shootout. One Dead. One At Large
posted by mayurasana at 1:06 AM on April 19, 2013


Oh dear. Thanks for that bit of news, Ivan, bad though it is.
posted by mistersquid at 1:06 AM on April 19, 2013


Commissioner who tweeted what?
posted by dersins at 1:06 AM on April 19, 2013


Reporters on the 7News streaming video have said several times that the captured suspect was killed by the police.
posted by TwoToneRow at 1:07 AM on April 19, 2013


I think the other one surrendered.

Not according to the NYT:
The two shooters, he said, had a large and unwieldy bomb. “They lit it, still in the middle of the gunfire, and threw it. But it went 20 yards at most.” It exploded, he said, and one of the two men ran toward the gathered police officers. He was tackled, but it was not clear if he was shot, Mr. Kitzenberg said.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:07 AM on April 19, 2013


It's puzzling, given everything else, that they released the driver of the car they carjacked. But maybe they only have the stomach to kill civilians when they don't have to look them in the eyes.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I thought there was a cop yelling "Show me your hands" and "Take off your shorts" on the various videos.
posted by Trochanter at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2013


Boston police commissioner, Ed Davis, tweeted this: "One suspect dead. One at large. Armed and dangerous. White hat suspect at large."
posted by maudlin at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2013


Not that I'm complaining. Thanks goodness they did release him!
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm not hearing the "they have him surrounded" comms. Can anyone substantiate?
posted by rollbiz at 1:09 AM on April 19, 2013


Another reason for calling for long guns is that you're facing people wearing body armor. Pistols generally won't go through armor but rifles most definitely will. This was the case in that bank shoot-out in North Hollywood, where you had officers running into gun stores and appropriating AR-15s in order to kill the robbers.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 1:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


A deeper look at the missing student from a few weeks back. Interesting that the FBI were so involved in the search, the writer felt it was because of money.
posted by saucysault at 1:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Was trying to verify Ed Davis on Twitter (the word "verified" is only visible in the source); but the NBC news station is reporting same.
posted by lordaych at 1:10 AM on April 19, 2013


Pretty reliable for the last hour and an half: http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by mistersquid at 1:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thanks goodness they did release him!

From the scanner/Reddit thread transcription: 12:32 EST: Car owner is fine, escaped while they were filling up.

So it looks more like they were lousy at securing hostages rather than that they released him.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:12 AM on April 19, 2013


Edward Davis ‏@EdDavis3 10m

One suspect dead. One at large. Armed and dangerous. White hat suspect at large.
Retweeted by Jess Bidgood
posted by Trochanter at 1:13 AM on April 19, 2013


They don't sound suicidal.
posted by Trochanter at 1:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Any chance that they might try to wait him out, get him to deplete ammo - in other words do everything possible to take him alive? Presuming he doesn't kill himself.
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 1:15 AM on April 19, 2013


They'll never trust that he's out of ammo.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:16 AM on April 19, 2013


Fuck me. I'm related to a MA state trooper who occasionally has done SWAT stuff with the staties. I hope to hell he's off duty and home with his new baby right now.
posted by rmd1023 at 1:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


They killed a cop. And to paraphrase Vic Mackey, cop killers generally aren't brought in alive.
posted by subbes at 1:17 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston NBC just showed this "new?" picture (on the right) -- they had no real idea of its provenance or whether it was taken tonight as far as I can tell, yet, they hedged saying that it could just be a random video from a robbery.
posted by lordaych at 1:18 AM on April 19, 2013


No matter how this ends, it will be unsatisfying.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Lordaych - that's pretty substantial.
posted by OHSnap at 1:20 AM on April 19, 2013


Live police update now:

One car jacking. One policeman shot and killed. One suspect shot and in custody. Search underway by tactical teams and other law enforcement for the second suspect, who is the white capped suspect from the earlier pictures. He is believed to be in a gray hooded top and is described as a light skinned or caucasian individual with brown curly hair.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:20 AM on April 19, 2013


But maybe they only have the stomach to kill civilians when they don't have to look them in the eyes.

Interesting you should say that, Ivan - apparently one of the victims did
posted by heyjude at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013


Wow, have to second saucysault's link--Tripathi is the son of wealthy software CEO:
In reality, however, this young man isn't missing, per se, and he's not a student at Brown University either.

But those calculated embellishments are far more attention-grabbing than the unadorned truth would be: That Tripathi's scholastic career at the esteemed institute of learning he used to attend was derailed by chronic, untreated depression; and that he left a three word goodbye-cruel-world note just before deliberately dropping off everybody's radar.

[...]And, while the Tripathi clan's crisis is undeniably sad, a five-state all out manhunt for an emotionally disturbed, underweight youth who "always wears three winter coats" and has a history of mental illness frankly isn't merited.
Posted March 28.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


That pic was released by the Boston Police Dept. It was from the robbery at the 7-11 earlier, and supposedly shows suspect #2.
posted by Rhomboid at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


wow he was at the 7/11
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013


That's true, benito.strauss. It's not like there is an explanation for all of this that will make me think, "Oh! That makes sense."
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013


lordaych, For what it's worth, I did hear someone on the scanner say that they had pictures of the suspect "from the store", and that left me wondering if these guys were involved in the reported 7-11 robbery tonight.
posted by Silly Ashles at 1:22 AM on April 19, 2013


Read saucysalt's link if you get the chance. It sounds like this alleged missing Brown student had some serious issues.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:23 AM on April 19, 2013


They killed a cop. And to paraphrase Vic Mackey, cop killers generally aren't brought in alive.

These aren't gangbangers.
posted by Trochanter at 1:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The new picture is from a 7-11, involved in latest incident and also the second suspect.
posted by annsunny at 1:23 AM on April 19, 2013


Lordaych, the anchors were unsure what the deal is with the drawing, not the photo. The photo is from the FBI.
posted by torticat at 1:23 AM on April 19, 2013


Thanks Rhomboid, that's what I was hoping for, crowdsourced photo ID :) OHSnap, eponysterical!
posted by lordaych at 1:23 AM on April 19, 2013


Trochanter: "They don't sound suicidal"

Not giving yourself up when you're being chased by basically all the cops in New England is as good as being suicidal.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


The video feed has been cutting on and off so they may have actually said more about its provenance that I missed, I just heard the speculation about whether it was from today or not, or just a random robbery entirely.
posted by lordaych at 1:24 AM on April 19, 2013


At the police conference, one of the people talking said it was terrorism and that "they came here" to commit said terrorism. All while saying that they don't have names. Not good.
posted by Yowser at 1:24 AM on April 19, 2013


At the news conference just-ended the police refused to confirm death of suspect 1.
posted by mistersquid at 1:25 AM on April 19, 2013


To Elementary Penguin and anyone else in Watertown: I just spoke with Watertown PD (and another contact who reached out to them on behalf of my family), and basically the situation is that if you're anywhere in that part of Watertown, you are within the perimeter they are establishing. Stay put and locked in.
posted by rollbiz at 1:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


So seems like they carjacked someone, then stopped at the 7-11 to get gas (and rob it), at which point the carjacking victim escaped and they got that picture of White Hat.

Maybe?
posted by subbes at 1:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I really wish that in tradgedies and disasters there were a website like Wikipedia that was just about crowdsourcing timelines of events, as they continue to event. I've been away for a day or two and I'm so confused about what's happened more recently. Does anybody have a good link up to the present so I can get an overview of what I've actually missed (without all the conjecture and misinformation)? Thanks!

(I'm sure there's a link upthread, but this is a monster and I can't find a good one. Also, traditional news sources are unsurprisingly not good at providing such things these days.)
posted by iamkimiam at 1:26 AM on April 19, 2013


The chat crashed for me but I'm glad the thread is still being updated here. So he robbed a gas station?
posted by Malice at 1:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Honestly, the Wikipedia page for the bombing was a really good source of information on Monday. It is probably a good source, now.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:27 AM on April 19, 2013


http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by Mister Bijou at 1:27 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm sure some mod is watching this page right now — any chance of getting chat back up?
posted by Bugbread at 1:28 AM on April 19, 2013


"they came here" to commit said terrorism.

I thought "here" was referring to Watertown. (Chat down for me too).
posted by benito.strauss at 1:28 AM on April 19, 2013


Chat appears to be all the way down, malice.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:28 AM on April 19, 2013


Report: Suspect in Boston Marathon bombing captured after MIT police officer killed.
posted by ericb at 1:29 AM on April 19, 2013


The police did say that picture was of suspect #2 and was from the 7-11 robbery.
posted by team lowkey at 1:29 AM on April 19, 2013


You can listen to the Boston Police, Fire and EMS scanner here.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, he's wearing a gray hoodie, and that was how he was described on the scanner.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:29 AM on April 19, 2013


#bostonscanner on freenode IRC had a good feed of emerging links (no actual scanner dialogue that I saw) but I pried myself away after Chrome crashed from all of the stressed out websites I'm accessing. Time for bed, hoping for the best. Stay safe everyone.
posted by lordaych at 1:31 AM on April 19, 2013


Peering out of the bushes?

What is "SP male"?
posted by Bugbread at 1:31 AM on April 19, 2013


The Reddit thread is continuing here and the top comment in the thread is a great list of links to live scanner, news, twitter, etc. feeds.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:31 AM on April 19, 2013


Sounds from the scanner like they're arranging barriers.
posted by subbes at 1:32 AM on April 19, 2013


Oh jesus, chatter on radio says suspects might be wearing explosives on their person.
posted by subbes at 1:33 AM on April 19, 2013


"units use caution. person may have an explosive on his person" (from scanner)
posted by lenny70 at 1:33 AM on April 19, 2013


Whawhawha! Police scanner says the first suspect may have had an explosive device on his chest that detonated after he was arrested.
posted by Bugbread at 1:33 AM on April 19, 2013


holyshit..they are now saying that blackhat (dead one) had a bomb strapped to him and white hat might too
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:33 AM on April 19, 2013


1st suspect may have had explosive vest on him, warning to watch out for 2nd.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:33 AM on April 19, 2013


Did the participants on the scanner just say that the suspect who died in custody might have had an explosive they wore that was involved in their death?
posted by massless at 1:34 AM on April 19, 2013


lordaych: KegCoyote and herduckyness in ##bostonscanner are directly transcribing the scanner activity.
posted by SemiSophos at 1:34 AM on April 19, 2013


Suspect is apprehended, possible explosoives.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


My mistake Lordaych! I see you were referencing the picture that I thought was a drawing.

Not giving yourself up when you're being chased by basically all the cops in New England is as good as being suicidal.

Yeah, when I mentioned a suicide mission upthread I was referring more to suicide-by-cop based on their behavior so far. A plan to do whatever damage they could without concern for an exit strategy.
posted by torticat at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


89 Dexter sounds like a scary place to be right now. They just asked for FBI help with some devices.
posted by feloniousmonk at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


(Lots of sodas being exchanged here in jinxtown) WOW is this quite the listen
posted by LooseFilter at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


First suspect was pronounced DOA at Mass General. Unsurprising, if he was wearing an explosive device that triggered when he went down.
posted by subbes at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


Possible victim coming out, call for FBI bomb expert at 89 Dexter.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:35 AM on April 19, 2013


CNN showed shots of a man lying (alive) face down on the pavement.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:36 AM on April 19, 2013


tungstenchef... i think that was "if" he's apprehended
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:36 AM on April 19, 2013


if he was wearing an explosive device that triggered when he went down.

That explains why he ran toward the police during a firefight. Fucker was hoping to take as many cops with him as possible.
posted by LooseFilter at 1:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


FelliniBlank: "CNN showed shots of a man lying (alive) face down on the pavement."

Believe that is Naked Guy, who is not a suspect.
posted by subbes at 1:38 AM on April 19, 2013


So seems like they carjacked someone, then stopped at the 7-11 to get gas (and rob it), at which point the carjacking victim escaped and they got that picture of White Hat.

They apparently paid for their gas at Harvard and Broadway, weirdly.
posted by rollbiz at 1:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The alive and face-down dude was an innocent bystander according to what I've seen on NBC.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:39 AM on April 19, 2013


"CNN showed shots of a man lying (alive) face down on the pavement."

Believe that is Naked Guy, who is not a suspect.

CNN, be dark for a while and let the responsible adults report this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]


"All tactical commanders into the state trucks for a brief."
followed by
"That was not the bust, the bust didn't come down yet.
posted by TungstenChef at 1:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, they're not time-stamping the videos and showing them sort of randomly. What a surprise.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:39 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


FelliniBlank: "CNN showed shots of a man lying (alive) face down on the pavement"

Lots of people saying CNN is fucking this up again, the guy lying face down is the guy who was later filmed naked in police custody. It seems he didn't move back when instructed by police and was apprehended, but is not actually a suspect.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Calling all tactical commanders into the state police truck for a briefing.

rollbiz: "They apparently paid for their gas at Harvard and Broadway, weirdly."

Wouldn't want to compound mass murder and bombing with a gas-n-go.
posted by subbes at 1:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Who bicycles into work at 5am? In April?
posted by ceribus peribus at 1:41 AM on April 19, 2013


Listening to the scanner, the people biking into work are starting to be an issue.
posted by mikelieman at 1:41 AM on April 19, 2013


Why draw attention by robbing the place if you don't have to
posted by pixie at 1:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


TungstenChef: ""All tactical commanders into the state trucks for a brief."
followed by
"That was not the bust, the bust didn't come down yet."

I thought I heard "bus," not "bust." Might "bus" refer to a tactical vehicle?
posted by subbes at 1:41 AM on April 19, 2013


iamkimiam and any others who're totally disoriented with what and when and where of what happened tonight start with this article that went up recently (an hour or two ago) in the NYT. It worked pretty well for me.
posted by Skygazer at 1:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


A picture of White Hat with the kid who was killed at the marathon
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:42 AM on April 19, 2013


Who bicycles into work at 5am? In April?

Massholes?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:43 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Friday, April 19, 2013 4:30 AM
A suspicious package has been reported in the area of 500 Memorial Drive. Police are setting up a perimeter. Please stay away from this area until further notice.
posted by lordaych at 1:43 AM on April 19, 2013


Might "bus" refer to a tactical vehicle?

They've been waiting on a T bus ( public transit ) to shelter residents for an hour or so now.
posted by mikelieman at 1:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Chat's back
posted by Bugbread at 1:44 AM on April 19, 2013


[chat is back]
posted by lenny70 at 1:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Chat is back up. Thanks ?pb?.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Police scanner caught someone being told to "get down" followed by a back and forth that ended with "cancel that, all is well."

Meanwhile my cat is snoring and it's helping to keep me sane.
posted by subbes at 1:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


There is discussion of that photo upthread, Elementary, if you want to read it. It's a horrible image.
posted by torticat at 1:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


According to ABC, they did NOT pay for their gas at 7-11 but rather robbed the convenience store.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 1:48 AM on April 19, 2013


My last link was from MIT's Emergency Information Site; stark contrast between the last two updates:

Friday, April 19, 2013 4:30 AM
A suspicious package has been reported in the area of 500 Memorial Drive. Police are setting up a perimeter. Please stay away from this area until further notice.

Friday, April 19, 2013 1:56 AM
MIT Police have determined that the suspect in this evening’s shooting is no longer on campus. It is now safe to resume normal activities. Please remain vigilant in the coming hours.

Friday, April 19, 2013 1:31 AM
Please remain indoors. Police have NOT determined that the campus is safe.

Friday, April 19, 2013 1:04 AM
Suspect remains at large. Please continue to stay indoors.

Friday, April 19, 2013 12:37 AM
Update on shooter situation. The shooter remains at large, police continue to search the campus. Please REMAIN INDOORS until further notice.

Friday, April 19, 2013 12:28 AM
Update on shooter situation. Responding agencies are actively investigating the situation, which remains very fluid at this time. Police continue to sweep the campus. Stay indoors and remain inside until further notice.
posted by lordaych at 1:48 AM on April 19, 2013


So this makes two nights in a row at work that I've been glued to MeFi instead of, you know, working. Prob'ly my boss will notice soon.
posted by OHSnap at 1:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Another good report and early timeline from the Middlesex DA's office about the events last night and the death of the MIT Police Officer.
posted by Skygazer at 1:49 AM on April 19, 2013


As someone who has worked an overnight shift at a convenience store...dear God would I not want to have been working anywhere in Boston tonight.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


WCVB is making it sound like the SUV was the carjacked vehicle. Argh! The NYT gives a different impression.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:54 AM on April 19, 2013


The Boston police scanner stream site lists today's schedule as "5AM - 11AM: Manhunt in Watertown". Do they know something we don't?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:54 AM on April 19, 2013


"I have a crazy story for you." - the naked guy who is not a suspect, every day for the rest of his life.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


Argh! The NYT gives a different impression.

Yeah...putting together the NYT story with the one Skygazer just linked, it looks like maybe they never carjacked the police SUV, but the car they stole was also an SUV so it was confusing? Sorry if I'm mistaken or saying something that's been said, it's hard to keep up.
posted by torticat at 1:57 AM on April 19, 2013


The SUV, a Mercedes, was carjacked. The driver was also taken. He escaped at a filling station.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sorry for not asking this on chat, but I'm on my phone: can someone tell me where 70 pacific street (ma 02139) is relative to all of the ongoing activity / suspected bombs?

It looks like it's right in the middle, but I'm really hoping someone can tell me that's wrong...
posted by metaBugs at 1:59 AM on April 19, 2013


That's right by MIT, but the action has moved a mile or so west now.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


70 pacific street is pretty much completely uninvolved - the initial shooting of a campus police officer happened just a few blocks east of there, but everything else in tonight's craziness happened about two miles west of there.
posted by Ryvar at 2:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Wowee. Twitter feed from witness/resident in Watertown where shootout/car crash has occurred: Jraske
posted by wensink at 2:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Wait, now, WHDH has reporting that the guys came to the U.S. about a year ago? Does this call into question whether white hat is in fact Tripathi? Did anyone else hear that?
posted by torticat at 2:10 AM on April 19, 2013


Thanks.
posted by metaBugs at 2:11 AM on April 19, 2013


torticat: "Wait, now, WHDH has reporting that the guys came to the U.S. about a year ago? Does this call into question whether white hat is in fact Tripathi? Did anyone else hear that?"

Yeah, not sure where that came from as I haven't seen any citations; maybe a misinterpretation of the "they came here to kill people" line from the press conference earlier?
posted by subbes at 2:13 AM on April 19, 2013


" Does this call into question whether white hat is in fact []? Did anyone else hear that?"

2 looks like him, but I've stopped using his name because I think we ought to be careful. But maybe what you heard applies to 1? Or it's just bogus.

And, I think that line from the press conference was ambiguous. Perhaps intentionally.

This moment: WCVB anchors pushing reporter on info on the suspects. She's not saying.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:16 AM on April 19, 2013


It's looking like there will soon be a press conference from Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, where suspect #1 was taken and presumably died.
posted by Rhomboid at 2:17 AM on April 19, 2013


MSNBC is saying that officials have told them that Sunil Tripathi is not suspect #2.
posted by RichardP at 2:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


FBI news conference incoming.
posted by subbes at 2:19 AM on April 19, 2013


I've been up for 37 hours. That's probably not good.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


NBC/MSNBC: Officials have said that the missing Brown student is not one of the suspects.
posted by Silly Ashles at 2:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


MSNBC is saying that officials have told them that Sunil Tripathi is not suspect #2

Never in my life have I so wanted MSNBC to be a harbinger of fair and balanced reporting.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


oh my god, that is incredible.
posted by torticat at 2:21 AM on April 19, 2013


Well I'm sure he's going to be just leaping at the opportunity to make himself un-missing now.
posted by threeants at 2:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


Doctor at press conference said that the suspect brought in under police escort was essentially DOA -- they worked on him for ~20 minutes and then pronounced at 1:35 EST. Have no information on identity of deceased.
posted by Rhomboid at 2:23 AM on April 19, 2013


The Reddit thread is reporting the second suspect is dead.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:24 AM on April 19, 2013


NBC/MSNBC: Officials have said that the missing Brown student is not one of the suspects.

That would mean the person top trending worldwide on Twitter for the last few hours is not one of the suspects.
posted by Wordshore at 2:25 AM on April 19, 2013


That would mean the person top trending worldwide on Twitter for the last few hours is not one of the suspects.

Pretty sure that's the least of his problems.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:26 AM on April 19, 2013


At this point, I would caution you to take posts on Reddit with massive grains of salt. I am a Redditor but I am disgusted by the way several posters jumped to conclusions about Sunil and linked him to something we now know he was not a part of. I can only imagine what the family is going through. Two brown kids slandered in less that 72 hours. Not cool.
posted by RedShrek at 2:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


The Reddit thread is reporting the second suspect is dead.

That is the only place I'm seeing this. In his latest update, he thinks "second suspect" may refer to the black hat guy (the first being Naked Guy*).

*He's going to be known as that for a long time...
posted by dirigibleman at 2:28 AM on April 19, 2013


I hope there are no repercussions for that young doctor who said he felt instinctively there was a relationship between the explosives/gunfight and then went in to work and received the patient. He refused to answer the question if he had worked on the Pt.

suspect had multiple gunshot wounds and a blast injury to the chest.

I'm hugely impressed that 2 medics who heard the event already warned their ED before the ambulance service could notify them so they could gear up. That poor team on call thinking they possibly faced another event like the Marathon bombings.
posted by Wilder at 2:29 AM on April 19, 2013


Anything else but an excuse to start bombing people on the other side of the world. All I'm asking.
posted by qinn at 2:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


The Beth Israel press conference: an ER doctor lives in Watertown and heard gunshots and an explosion and took the initiative to call the hospital, they staffed and prepared for worst without waiting to hear from law enforcement and he drove into hospital. Then not too much later he got #1 as patient. Impressed with initiative.

"oh my god, that is incredible."

It's pretty amazing how similar they look but that's the problem with this stuff. Same people look different in different pictures and different people look same. It's freaky, but I'm not the least surprised that I could be convinced it's the same person but be wrong. If that makes sense. That's why I stopped using his name (and assuming we might want to delete other references? but it's too late, MeFi is a drop in the bucket at this point) because my eyes told me one thing and my worry told me another.

Likewise, I won't be surprised if he actually is the person. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be surprised at anything.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am disgusted by the way several posters jumped to conclusions about Sunil and linked him to something we now know he was not a part of

Sigh. Yes, I really really regret having been drawn into that if it was in fact not true. I thought people here actually heard the name on the police scanner, but I guess it was all based on a tweet?

Also I will be very sad if this turns out to be an international matter.
posted by torticat at 2:36 AM on April 19, 2013


Incidentally, that article said the student is 6' and 130 pounds. It's not just the face, it's the build, too.

"I thought people here actually heard the name on the police scanner,"

That's what I thought because someone said so, but then there was never any other confirmation of it after. And someone said that others said they didn't hear it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:38 AM on April 19, 2013


They just closed the T.
posted by Diablevert at 2:40 AM on April 19, 2013


Diablevert, where are you seeing that?
posted by rmd1023 at 2:43 AM on April 19, 2013


Sounds like the whole MBTA is closed today, including commuter rail and subway. Bostonians: Remain Indoors
posted by subbes at 2:44 AM on April 19, 2013


police scanner is where it's at ^
posted by victory_laser at 2:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Watch Boston WHDH, seriously they have had the best news all night.
posted by torticat at 2:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


rmd ABC Boston just announced that.
posted by Catch at 2:45 AM on April 19, 2013


Oh, TV news talking about grenades and I'm skeptical but if they really had grenades, then that changes my assessment of who they are quite a bit. Unless I'm confused about it. But I'm pretty sure grenades are hard to come by. But we know how reliable the TV news is. It could have been some improvised small bombs. Or just junk.

"Diablevert, where are you seeing that?"

Announced it on the local TV news. From some official notification. But then they're also talking about grenades.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:45 AM on April 19, 2013


I think the only confirmed information is there were explosions and some sort of go-boom devices but no definite grenades.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:48 AM on April 19, 2013


Does anyone have the links for suspect #2 being cleared as not being Sunil Trapathi?
posted by Skygazer at 2:48 AM on April 19, 2013


Police dept representative at press conference ordering all residents of Watertown, Newton, Belmont, Waltham, Cambridge, and Allston-Brighton to stay at home, and asking businesses to remain closed.
posted by Rhomboid at 2:49 AM on April 19, 2013


Man this is like some crazy sci-fi story, not only is the original crime basically broadcast in near real-time online but the ensuing capture basically gets live-tweeted as well.
"If nothing else, it seems the speculation that these guys were rank amateurs was way, way off."
Amateurs as opposed to what? People who get paid to do this kind of thing? If they were actual 'professionals' they'd be in a different country by now.
Let me clarify: I'm not saying they're elite special operators, but neither are they the bumbling terrorists (the Shoe Bomber, the Times Square Bomber) we've seen in the past. They were organized, well equipped and committed.
I disagree. There's nothing to indicate they are connected to any wider network (so far). They are committed to avoid capture, but we don't know if they're actually committed to any cause. One thing that's definitely true is that they spent a lot more then $500 on bombs and weapons, like localrodger was speculating.
They lit a bomb and threw it at the police, like in a cartoon?
Apparently!
Wait, about the Tripathi kid. If the FBI was involved with his family in the search for him, wouldn't they know what he looked like? Did they not put 2 and 2 together?
The FBI has tens of thousands of employees. And now it sounds like maybe Tripathi isn't even the killer. I swear I read it had been confirmed somewhere, now I don't see it anywhere.
I am a Redditor but I am disgusted by the way several posters jumped to conclusions about Sunil and linked him to something we now know he was not a part of.
Metafilter did just as bad, apparently.

___
Wearing a mask in a crowd would get you noticed, not ignored. I highly doubt he's wearing a mask.
It depends on the mask. There are some good. There was an article about someone applying for asylum in Canada getting on a plane in china with an 'old man' mask bought off the internet. They make some pretty realistic ones these days. Throw on some sunglasses and keep your mouth closed and people might not notice in a crowded environment.
posted by delmoi at 2:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Harvard sent a text saying everyone near campus should stay inside their homes. Press conference on WBUR is saying the same thing for the whole surrounding area, including Belmont and Cambridge.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:49 AM on April 19, 2013


Does anyone have the links for suspect #2 being cleared as not being Sunil Trapathi?

The claim is from NBC News.

NBC News ‏@NBCNews 26m

Speculation that one of bombing suspects is a missing student is not correct, sources tell @PeteWilliamsNBC
posted by Drinky Die at 2:51 AM on April 19, 2013


For MeFites just getting up, here's about as concise a summary of the evening's events as I've seen.
posted by OHSnap at 2:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I was told to watch Boston WHDH here on the Blue a few hours ago and they are seriously good.

I'd recommend it to anyone trying to keep up
posted by Wilder at 2:53 AM on April 19, 2013


al jazeera livestream is pretty much right on top of this, if one is interested in watching online.
posted by lapolla at 2:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


delmoi, yeah, I had in mind latex masks such as were used by Tony Mendez of CIA/Argo fame (where they were apparently NOT used) and the Mossad in the infamous Dubai operation where they basically fooled practically everyone according to local authorities. This would obviously factor into the question of whether they are lone wolf amateurs or highly supported professionals. Really curious how that falls out -- per qinn above if nothing else.
posted by dhartung at 2:55 AM on April 19, 2013


For MeFites just getting up, here's about as concise a summary of the evening's events

Thanks. I was just about to ask that very question. A basic recap. I went to bed just as this was starting a couple of hours ago and now the whole things is going crazy.
posted by lampshade at 2:55 AM on April 19, 2013


I've never seen Reddit so thoroughly down.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:58 AM on April 19, 2013


I can't tell wtf is going on.
posted by zardoz at 2:59 AM on April 19, 2013


http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/51593314/#51593314
...currently reporting, I suspect might have comments on Brown student since this is where the supposed debunking came from.
posted by torticat at 3:00 AM on April 19, 2013


sorry to keep spamming this link, but WHDH has been right on since all this started: http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive

Also lots of updates here: https://chat.metafilter.com
posted by mistersquid at 3:03 AM on April 19, 2013


I just put together that #2 is wearing a grey hoodie on Monday as well as in the 7-11 photo.
posted by OHSnap at 3:03 AM on April 19, 2013


Is there any official link to confirm that Sunil Tripathi is not Bomber #2? The NBC twitter link doesn't mention his name, making it less useful for showing it wasn't him. It would be good if there was a link specifically saying "Sunil Tripathi is not a suspect, is not the man being chased"
posted by delmoi at 3:05 AM on April 19, 2013


yeah I agree on whdh, mistersquid, but NBC is where the foreigners claim came from so it's worth hearing what Isikoff and Williams have to say.
posted by torticat at 3:05 AM on April 19, 2013


yeah, laundry really wasn't a priority I'm guessing
posted by Wilder at 3:06 AM on April 19, 2013


NBC got some things not quite right — for example, they're saying that they ambushed the MIT cop because they panicked and wanted to flee. But I'm pretty sure that the cop was called to some kind of disturbance and then they shot him. NBC's story doesn't make any sense — why would they just shoot an MIT cop in his car and then carjack a car to get away?

NBC's going hard with the "international connections" thing and the way they're saying it and what they're saying sort of sets off my spidey-sense in that it feels like they're seizing on something minimal and running with it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:12 AM on April 19, 2013


Let's be clear re latex masks and other more sophisticated methods of disguising onself: I really doubt these guys are state-sponsored professionals in the way that military personnel are nor trained terrorists in the way that ETA, the IRA and others were.

Their bombs were relatively crude. Their means of bombing was crude, and made it relatively easy to identify the bombers. They hung around when their bombs went off. They do not appear to have an exit plan, or believed that repeat attacks in the same area straight after the main attacks was a tactically clever idea. Carjacking and holding up stores is a sign of panic, not a terror tactic.

There are lots of flavors of what one might call "amateur" depending on what training they received and where they got it, but these guys are not terrorist masterminds, nor technical experts. The Taliban, for example, use more sophisticated bombs in terms of both construction and detonation. Tactically, they have gifted US law enforcement opportunities that counterterrorism forces dream of.

I do not intend to downplay things because there is a distinction between the operators and the effects - 9/11 was crude but effective - but when the time is right to look back with some hindsight and distance these guys will look less threatening to the wider safety of the US than they do currently. This is a good thing.

The bad news - in the US and elsewhere - is that this may be irrelevant to public sentiment. The whole appeal of terrorism is that it does not require sophistication or scale to become impactful. We don't place all risks in the same box so the randomness and scattering effect of terrorism punches above its actual impact.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]


They got him.
posted by subbes at 3:17 AM on April 19, 2013


link?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:17 AM on April 19, 2013


^ (on postview) subbes is reporting suspect 2 has been captured in https://chat.metafilter.com
posted by mistersquid at 3:18 AM on April 19, 2013


From ABC - Second suspect spotted on Charles Circle?
posted by Catch at 3:18 AM on April 19, 2013


please let this be true
posted by Wilder at 3:19 AM on April 19, 2013


It came in on the scanner.

Possible false alarm; might have been someone else. They're looking for confirmation.
posted by subbes at 3:20 AM on April 19, 2013


If I am following the scanner correctly. There was a white male with a red backpack trying to get a cab. This was reported as suspicious. They have three people from that cab in custody.
posted by Drinky Die at 3:21 AM on April 19, 2013


pasted from chat:

zix: boston cab 375
zix: 1 white (driver), 2 middle eastern males
yowser: one white male, two middle eastern males - driver and an unidentified
zix: all on deck outside the car
zix: haven't checked the trunk yet
subbes: ? is that him?
empath: i dunno man



Looks like it wasn't him but they have EOD investigating the cab.
posted by subbes at 3:23 AM on April 19, 2013


Sorry, my reporting is as shoddy as CNN's.
posted by subbes at 3:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


There was chatter on the radio about getting a negotiator, as well as a call out amongst the police for those officers equipped with "less lethal" beanbag shotguns, with the guns apparently being gathered and converging on Arsenal Mall, which appears to be a kind of base of operation.

An announcement just came across the police scanner. All transportation and businesses in the area are closed until further notice. People shouldn't congregate near transportation stops.

Three occupants of a cab in custody. BOSTON CAB 375. Apparently 464 Commonwealth Ave. White male, middle eastern described.
posted by markkraft at 3:27 AM on April 19, 2013


I was just told to not come to work in Belmont!
posted by theredpen at 3:31 AM on April 19, 2013


464 Commonwealth is all the way back in the Back Bay, not Watertown. Not impossible but not likely either. Let's hold off on describing any random jumpy questioning of people as "getting him"....
posted by dhartung at 3:33 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, sorry for jumping to conclusions earlier.
posted by subbes at 3:36 AM on April 19, 2013


AP: Suspects are Chechnyan.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:40 AM on April 19, 2013


464 Commonwealth is about 1500 feet from me. Whoopee!

But seriously, there's a thousand cabs near Kenmore square and multiple thousand BU students near there who might not have heard about the effective curfew.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:40 AM on April 19, 2013


They're apparently going to go house-to-house in order to clear a significant area in Watertown.

Meanwhile, it sounds like they are sending the bomb squad out to that taxi, which was reported as having bags in the back of the cab, though again, it does sound really out of the way.

(Glad that's not my luggage.)
posted by markkraft at 3:42 AM on April 19, 2013


Which would be Islamist, almost certainly. Don't let "Russian" confuse you.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:42 AM on April 19, 2013


NBC are reporting the bombers come from Turkey (although that does not mean they have to be Turkish), have been in the country one year and may have had military training.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:43 AM on April 19, 2013


A long way from Staraya, Ivan.
posted by Catch at 3:44 AM on April 19, 2013


AP: Suspects are Chechnyan.
The bombers, or the people arrested in the cab?
posted by delmoi at 3:44 AM on April 19, 2013


The exact wording was "from Russia region near Chechnya" but who knows. It's really hard to know which sources to trust on these things.
posted by Rhomboid at 3:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Sounds like that Code Black at Mt. Auburn Hospital may have been related to an MBTA officer who was shot in the Watertown madness. Not good.
posted by rollbiz at 3:45 AM on April 19, 2013


Holy shit, just woke up and shit is crazy!

Pete Williams saying they had (para?)military training on NBC.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:46 AM on April 19, 2013


BREAKING: AP: Surviving Boston bomb suspect identified as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass. -SS
posted by Drinky Die at 3:46 AM on April 19, 2013


@shanewharris: Pete Williams not reporting names. Says they are confirmed by 2 sources. Are brothers. One born 7-22-93. Resident of Cambridge. MA dr lic.
Shit. I have family in Cambridge.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:47 AM on April 19, 2013


"A long way from Staraya, Ivan."

Heh.

"The bombers, or the people arrested in the cab?"

Bombers.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:47 AM on April 19, 2013


I wonder who they will be in two hours.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [17 favorites]


Anyone else finding reality increasingly implausible?
posted by orrnyereg at 3:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]


Cable TV is going total News Pornholio on this.
posted by lampshade at 3:49 AM on April 19, 2013


One consequence, possibly, of ad-supported (and thus click-driven) media is that news sources are gracing to dig up whatever story they can muster about anyone named - a picture of the (possible, alleged, not confirmed, apparently now superseded) suspect wearing a Che Guevara T-Shirt! - thus creating a permanent, Google cached information trail.

At this point, if I had been been naming people, I would be hoping that I turn out to be right, and not only for the resulting flow of Reddit gold.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:49 AM on April 19, 2013


orrnyereg- the onion: This What World Like Now
posted by victory_laser at 3:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


If the guys are Chechen, Putin will be overjoyed.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


If the name Twitter is reporting is right, then Google is showing them in the US longer than just a year. He was attending high school as of 2011. Half the sites with his name have been crashed/DDOSed already.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:51 AM on April 19, 2013


orrnyereg- the onion: This What World Like Now
When has the world not been like that?
posted by delmoi at 3:52 AM on April 19, 2013


If zombieflanders is right, not just attending high school as of 2011, but apparently also a City Scholarship recipient. Man. What went wrong?
posted by curious.jp at 3:53 AM on April 19, 2013


Reddit is apparently now battling a malicious DDoS attack. Welcome to Shit Week!
posted by Rhomboid at 3:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


American military gears up to invade Chechnya, level Grozny, finds out Putin got there first.
posted by dhartung at 3:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Just got an e-mail from family in Cambridge...cousin was 2 blocks from SUV shootout, aunt and uncle 3 blocks from MIT shooting. Holy fuck.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:53 AM on April 19, 2013


Reddit is apparently now battling a malicious DDoS attack.

Oh gee, let me get out my crying towel.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


http://umdfyebookblink.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/thin-slicing-turns-tragic/ commented on by suspect?

Google search is already swamped by references to today's events.
posted by Catch at 3:55 AM on April 19, 2013


delmoi: I agree, I just think it's hilarious to see that sentiment in news-speak, sans articles. It's such an awkward sentence.
posted by victory_laser at 3:56 AM on April 19, 2013


I feel confident in this identification, even though it surprises me, because you have to think about how anyone got those names and, having those names, what they'd (the authorities) automatically know about them with regard to having been tracked coming into the US (being Chechens). If the authorities think that's who these guys are, then they're almost certainly right.

So, somewhere in-between mine and BobbyVan's position. The press and the right-wing will go nuts with the Islamist and Al Qaeda connection, and these guys almost certainly had some connection with Chechen Islamist insurgents (and thus likely some minimal training, at least), but they're very young and the didn't have support or much resources here (relative to what an organized terrorist cell could put into their hands) and, as has been pointed out, this just doesn't "smell" pro. It smells like young Islamists doing this mostly on their own initiative, maybe with a bit of help getting here and a pat on the shoulder, and then they've just been determined to cause havoc for the cause.

It's a long way from an Al Qaeda cell, but it's also a long way from a couple of disgruntled overgrown adolescents.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


For me he has been Ziggy since the first photo.
posted by Free word order! at 3:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Pipebomb reported detonated on police scanner.
posted by markkraft at 4:00 AM on April 19, 2013


"If the guys are Chechen, Putin will be overjoyed."

Yeah.

"American military gears up to invade Chechnya, level Grozny, finds out Putin got there first."

Heh.

But that won't stop us. Remember what we just did? If we can't go after the target that makes sense, we'll go after a target that's convenient. Because that's Just How We Roll. We bomb and kill foreigners when we're upset, it's like our national coping mechanism.

sigh
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


It sounds like a bomb (or suspected bomb) was detonated somewhere by a bomb disposal team. May not be near that cab, though... and may not be anything. There was also some talk about a suspicious package under a roadway.

Today, everything is going to look like a bomb.
posted by markkraft at 4:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


If we can't go after the target that makes sense, we'll go after a target that's convenient.

US invades ... *throws dart* Bulgaria.
posted by Catch at 4:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


But that won't stop us. Remember what we just did? If we can't go after the target that makes sense, we'll go after a target that's convenient. Because that's Just How We Roll. We bomb and kill foreigners when we're upset, it's like our national coping mechanism.

I'd like to think that a lot more Americans are tired of this shit, and that Obama doesn't have a cowboy complex and daddy issues, and that level heads will prevail. But who knows?
posted by zombieflanders at 4:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]


Well we can't really invade Chechnya, so I'm not sure what we'd do.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:07 AM on April 19, 2013


Russian radio Echo Moscow just published scans of suspect Tsarnaev's VKontakte (Russian facebook clone) page.
posted by susuman at 4:09 AM on April 19, 2013


FBI Criticizes Internet Vigilantes in Boston Case
posted by delmoi at 4:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


A "device" has been reported. Charlesgate needs to be shut down. They will be detonating it.
posted by markkraft at 4:11 AM on April 19, 2013


Device exploded.
posted by markkraft at 4:12 AM on April 19, 2013


pic of suspect on Twitter BuzzfeedAndrew
posted by Wilder at 4:13 AM on April 19, 2013


Interesting. Tsarnaev's VK page lists his former school as Mahachkala Number 1 school. So 'near Chechnya' might mean Dagestan.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 4:14 AM on April 19, 2013


pic of suspect on Twitter BuzzfeedAndrew

yeah the original link was already posted.
posted by delmoi at 4:16 AM on April 19, 2013


I wouldn't want to be anyone who commented on his VKontakte page right now.
posted by Catch at 4:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


"US invades ... *throws dart* Bulgaria."

The EU might not like that so much.

"Well we can't really invade Chechnya, so I'm not sure what we'd do."

It's obvious, isn't it? With 9/11, it was Al Qaeda and, aside from Afghanistan and the Taliban who were partners/allies of Al Qaeda, we couldn't exactly bomb Saudi Arabia.

So we invaded Ba'athist Iraq, who was, as it happens, one of Al Qaeda's enemies. Made no sense. But, hey, it's an old enemy! Convenient.

So no invasion, just a big bombing campaign. Who? Iran. Makes no sense. But it makes perfect sense. Because they're evil and a preoccupation of Israel and the American right.

They're talking about a military response right now on WCVB. Which, by the way, the discussion on WCVB right now about Chechnya is abhorrent. They don't like authority, the expert says. The anchor says that they Chechens have committed horrible atrocities.

Let's just ignore how the Russians have treated Chechnya since forever and, after the breakup of the USSR and the Chechens tried to break away, the unbelievably brutal campaign where the Russians essentially destroyed the largest city in Chechnya and indiscriminately bombed and killed much of the civilian population. The atrocities began on the Russian side. FFS.

The narrative is already being crafted. Yeah, Putin is loving this. Lovin' it. Still, we can't bomb Chechnya, Russia has a puppet there who is building tall new buildings to demonstrate that they've all been pacified by the glorious Russian military prowess, perhaps even Putin himself wrestled some Chechen to death. So, sadly, we can't bomb Chechnya.

So we'll bomb Iran.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]


WCVB is saying that this guy RAN OVER suspect #1 with the car during the shoot-out earlier this morning.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:23 AM on April 19, 2013


So we invaded Ba'athist Iraq, who was, as it happens, one of Al Qaeda's enemies ... Yeah, Putin is loving this.
Loving it. Until we invade Russia.
posted by delmoi at 4:25 AM on April 19, 2013


Which guy ran over suspect 1?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:25 AM on April 19, 2013


His VK profile page says "last seen yesterday at 6:04 pm". Kind of strange to think of this guy dicking around on social media after the bombing.
posted by Rhomboid at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Well, it's only April, so it's the time to try it.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013


So we'll bomb Iran.

I was about to type "No way, because ..."

And then I stopped.

And my heart dropped.

Please God No.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's a long way from an Al Qaeda cell, but it's also a long way from a couple of disgruntled overgrown adolescents.

I'm not so sure. The live suspect has the same name as a kid who graduated from Cambridge Rindge and Latin in 2011, and the ages match. It's possible the the older bro had military experience, or that they've been in a training camp for the past year. But this cluster duck last night --- not professional. The ethnic Chechen immigrant version of Dylan Klebold, maybe?
posted by Diablevert at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Sounds of a chase in Cambridge according to friends. Also media told to clear out of a section of Cambridge.
posted by batou_ at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013


*30 million people look up Chechnya on Wikipedia*
posted by shakespeherian at 4:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]


This is where we, the rest of the world, hope to see the difference a new administration and a different President makes in US foreign Policy.

Insh'allah
posted by Wilder at 4:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]


Wikimedia has a useful ethnolinguistic map of that part of the world. I suspect this will be somewhat simplified by Fox New et al in the days ahead.
posted by Wordshore at 4:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Sounds of a chase in Cambridge according to friends. Also media told to clear out of a section of Cambridge.

Nothing corresponding to this on the scanner.

Could be they're headed to where the suspects lived, though...?
posted by rollbiz at 4:33 AM on April 19, 2013


(Also interesting will be what happens as a result of the reporting of false attributions. You can't sue the Internet, but I'm starting to wonder how skilled a number of untrained news bloggers are going to have been in managing their language around the various brown people confidently fingered on Twitter as suspects. ABC and CNN should have standards and practices all over this, but the smaller sites trying to get some of the clicks by getting inb4 verification? Some of whom may not even be registered as LLCs...)
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:33 AM on April 19, 2013


This story has become even more crazy. Three accomplices, two of whom are Chechnyan brothers, throwing pressure cooker bombs at police? Boston public transport shut down? Chaos reigns.

On a glib note: Chechens will be the new stock movie villains. The Dark Knight had just a tease of this.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:34 AM on April 19, 2013


As pointed out in ChatFi, this pretty well kills immigration reform, even though this guy looks like one of the "nice European immigrants" (read: white) that Trump et al wanted to come here instead of Mexicans and Ay-rabs.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Rollbiz you are quite likely correct. Supposedly they lived on Norfolk St in Cambridge from what I hear. Perhaps headed there.
posted by batou_ at 4:36 AM on April 19, 2013


As pointed out in ChatFi, this pretty well kills immigration reform, even though this guy looks like one of the "nice European immigrants" (read: white) that Trump et al wanted to come here instead of Mexicans and Ay-rabs.
Uh, no it won't.
posted by delmoi at 4:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


"nice European immigrants"

I'll bet $10 that they'll start to be described as "basically Asian" on right-wing radio within the month.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


As pointed out in ChatFi, this pretty well kills immigration reform, even though this guy looks like one of the "nice European immigrants" (read: white) that Trump et al wanted to come here instead of Mexicans and Ay-rabs.

Chechens are largely Muslim. Trump stands unbroken, unbowed, four bald eagles on each muscular arm.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Is "foaming at the mouth" speculation of coming racism as bad as racism? It's kind of unnerving for you all to describe various scenarios in which people of various races will be discriminated against.
posted by mysticreferee at 4:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


Wow this is just so crazy. One is now believed to have been a student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin (the public high school).
posted by batou_ at 4:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Is "foaming at the mouth" speculation of coming racism as bad as racism?

Yes. That is totally as bad as racism.
posted by ominous_paws at 4:40 AM on April 19, 2013


CNN analyst just said it was a good thing the suspects tried to rob a 7-11 because "terrorist masterminds tend not to do that".
posted by chavenet at 4:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


NPR is reporting that a third suspect has been taken into custody, they think it was naked man.
Update at 7:30 a.m. ET. Arrest Of Third Person:

A third man, who authorities believe was an accomplice of the bombing suspects, has been arrested according to NPR's Dina Temple-Raston. He may be the man, seen in videos earlier Friday, who police ordered to strip naked and was then put in the back of a patrol car
posted by tilde at 4:45 AM on April 19, 2013


It wouldn't have mattered if these guys were white Christians from the UK, a large part of the GOP has been looking for the slightest excuse to kill immigration reform, to them all these guys have to be is foreign. Hell, they could be 2nd-gen or have immigrated during the Bush or Clinton administrations and the GOP will 1) still blame this on Obama, and 2) refer to them as foreigners.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


NBC News: Suspects came to the United States in 2002 or 2003.

So it seems unlikely they were "radicalized" in Chechnya before coming to the United States. Also, some reports that the family is from Chechnya, other reports from Dagestan. Any clarification there?

EDIT: In the last minute, it's also come in that the white-hat younger brother was born in Kyrgyzstan. So, that's interesting, I suppose. Hopping back out of making comments until more concrete facts roll in.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


A third man, who authorities believe was an accomplice of the bombing suspects, has been arrested according to NPR's Dina Temple-Raston. He may be the man, seen in videos earlier Friday, who police ordered to strip naked and was then put in the back of a patrol car
May? Where is this 'may' coming from? I thought that guy was already confirmed to be an innocent bystander.
posted by delmoi at 4:47 AM on April 19, 2013


Woah, crazy timing (A)Ha(W)O.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:48 AM on April 19, 2013


Even if, for sake of argument, Obama wanted to "invade" Dagestan/Chechnya: wouldn't Russia act as a bulwark against the US doing such a thing? Putin has no love for Chechens, but he wouldn't want to be seen as Obama's Tony Blair. Putin would probably share intelligence about Chechen militants, tell the US to suck it up, and then ride his giant, jet black raven back to his twisted obsidian castle atop a thin craggy mountain against a lightning-dotted sky.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


Our alarm clock is set to wake us up to WBUR and it was just chaos and confusion this morning. Girlfriend can't get to work because the MBTA is totally shut down, and I called in because my route of travel is through the shutdown cities. Somerville hasn't declared a shutdown yet but Tufts is closed and we're close enough to the action that we're staying put for now.
posted by backseatpilot at 4:48 AM on April 19, 2013


Tamerlane, august name, was the brother who died.

Eyewitness reports (from WHDH)
the brother escaped by driving over his brother's body. Can it get more Hollywood??
posted by Wilder at 4:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Wanted poster and names
NY Times identifies both bombers as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass. and Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26.

Sunil Tripathi is not one of the bombing suspects.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


FYI, that Norfolk St address is in Central Sq, about two blocks from T, just north of former Harvest Co Op.

Could this stuff please stop happening in areas I am this familiar with now?
posted by maryr at 4:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Dzhokhar Tsaraev wins 2011 City Scholarship.
posted by youandiandaflame at 4:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


So it seems unlikely they were "radicalized" in Chechnya before coming to the United States. Also, some reports that the family is from Chechnya, other reports from Dagestan. Any clarification there?

According to this comment, one of the suspects went to school in Dagestan proper. This does not conflict with his being a Chechen. There's a Republic of Chechnya, but the Chechens are a people unto themselves. There are also some Chechens who want to annex part (all?) of Dagestan - no clue if that movement has any connection with what's going on here.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:55 AM on April 19, 2013


It wouldn't have mattered if these guys were white Christians from the UK, a large part of the GOP has been looking for the slightest excuse to kill immigration reform, to them all these guys have to be is foreign. Hell, they could be 2nd-gen or have immigrated during the Bush or Clinton administrations and the GOP will 1) still blame this on Obama, and 2) refer to them as foreigners.
What are you talking about?

When the Benghazi thing happened someone here predicted it would mean Obama would lose the election. For some reason or other. It's not like the attacks in Bengazi suddenly made Mitt Romney not an out of touch ultra-rich banker plutocrat.

In order for Immigration reform to pass, republicans have to vote for it. They currently think they need to do that or they will be thought of as anti-hispanic. And they think that is they are seen as anti-hispanic they will never win the whitehouse again, for the foreseeable future. Nothing about this event changes that calculation. Immigration reform is something the republicans believe they must support in order to survive as a political party in the US.
posted by delmoi at 4:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was born in 1993? I have socks older than him.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]


Photos of older brother training for MMA
posted by sciencegeek at 4:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Wow, this is all happening a mile away from my house. The streets here are empty. It's eerie.
posted by not_on_display at 4:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Two tweets from Boston Globe reporter Wesley Lowery, from the Norfolk st. location:

Camera operators say officers dragging a handcuffed woman out of suspects' apartment

Camera operators looking back at tape. Woman may not have been handcuffed when pulled out. Began resisting, then got cuffed led down street
posted by amy lecteur at 4:57 AM on April 19, 2013


Here is your update from Brighton: Sirens all up outside my window. My neighborhood is on lockdown. Bombs were apparently getting tossed less than a mile from my house.

FUCK

THIS

WEEK
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 4:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [18 favorites]


What the hell are we gonna do if they don't catch this guy in the next 24 hours or so...?
posted by Dr.Enormous at 5:01 AM on April 19, 2013


press conference: shelter in place extended to Boston
posted by madamjujujive at 5:02 AM on April 19, 2013


Jeff Bauman recovering in hospital.

Reddit convo.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 5:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


it does my little Irish heart proud to see an African American man called Patrick speaking on behalf of the city of Boston....somehow it speaks of everything positive I believe about the USA.
posted by Wilder at 5:02 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]


Gov Patrick says ALL of Boston should now shelter in place, lock doors, do not come out. #WCVB
posted by Dojie at 5:02 AM on April 19, 2013


I have gotten 2 robocalls from the Belmont PD, text messages from my employer: "stay inside, work's closed, city's closed, this is srs shit"
posted by not_on_display at 5:05 AM on April 19, 2013


Several blocks from the Norfolk St. location in Cambridge, I'm hearing sirens every couple minutes, but no intense activity. (Intense activity reported in Watertown, though.) MIT texted us to stay home, MBTA has suspended operation. A correction for some upthread comments: the 7-11 wasn't a gas station.
posted by Mapes at 5:07 AM on April 19, 2013


Photos of older brother training for MMA

These guys don't seem very "Muslim extremist" to me. Here he is touching a woman Although it does say he got her to convert to Islam. He also drove a Benz. So I guess we can say he was "Affluent" contra localroger.
posted by delmoi at 5:07 AM on April 19, 2013


Somewhat off topic (but potentially not?), I'm wondering who is both capable and inclined to DDoS Reddit.
posted by digitalprimate at 5:11 AM on April 19, 2013


According to the stories about the older brother's MMA pictures, he wanted to become an American and go to the Olympics representing the US. Either he became totally radicalized in the span of couple months (not impossible) or this was about something else. I wonder if we'll find out there was a large contingent of Russians or whatever the Chechnyan equivalent of quislings are in the crowd at the marathon.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Cable news needs to really cool it with the assertions that these guys are "Chechen rebels" who "want to be martyred." What!? It's possible that that is the situation here, but it seems to me equally possible that these are a couple of maladjusted middle-class social outcasts who hit their young-male masculine-threat stage and snapped, like we've seen so many times before. Most are white kids/men, but not always -- the VA Tech shooter was South Korean, for example. This is different because bombs, yes, but other than that, these guys fit the profile pretty well -- social media profiles, talk of not fitting in at school, trouble with girls. Just doesn't sound like a bogey man big bad terrorist to me. I suppose we'll see in the coming days. But, man, hey, news: please don't get it in every clay-eater's head that these men are "attacking America" or whatever if that's actually not the case.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [19 favorites]


Reddit itself. The DDoS is coming from inside the boards!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


These guys don't seem very "Muslim extremist" to me. Here he is touching a woman Although it does say he got her to convert to Islam. He also drove a Benz. So I guess we can say he was "Affluent" contra localroger.

This means nothing. The night before 9/11, the hijackers were at a strip club. Terrorists are often much less devout than non-terrorists.

(I know we don't know for sure if there's even a political motivation behind these attacks.)
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Guys, let's not speculate on if someone specific is a girlfriend of either of the suspects, since we don't have that info. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


That whole slideshow "Will Box for Passport" is interesting, though I agree that trying to identify and connect someone from years (?) ago to the bombers today seems like a bad idea. From image 12: "Originally from Chechnya, but living in the United States since five years, Tamerlan says: "I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them."
posted by jetlagaddict at 5:15 AM on April 19, 2013


"So it seems unlikely they were 'radicalized' in Chechnya before coming to the United States."

If they are ethnic Chechens, then whether or not they were too young to be involved in anything in Chechnya, they very well could be radicalized since they were toddlers.

You have to know the history of Chechnya, particularly the 90s-00s. It was a brutal, terrible, monstrous war for years and years until Putin kept upping the stakes until Grozny was rubble and gosh, I don't know, thousands and thousands had been killed. And, by that point, most of Chechnya had internalized radicalization and so during the Afghanistan/Iraq war period, Al Qaeda and others took advantage of this to use Chechens for their purposes. The war caused a diaspora and the dedication to a larger Islamic cause in place of the lost Chechen cause became the sponge for the anger of the young men who fight wars and insurgencies.

Not all Chechens, of course. But many of them would have been radicalized with their mother's milk. And given what these guys have done, it stands to reason that it's more likely that they're in that group.

However, they also could just be deeply disaffected the way that dispossessed diaspora first-generation young men can be. It really could be more like two angry young people just blowing people up than ideology. Or it could be ideology. Or it could be one disguised as the other.

It's unclear whether they had any training at all, whether they had any contact with organized terror groups or any support. But that's just not going to matter within the context of the American media and political context. They're going to be forced into the mold of the 9/11 suicide bombers, except with more shooting people and less accepting death quietly. Even if they've been here for years and years. Especially if they've been here for years. The right loves the "enemy among us" narrative. Really, they're much better candidates for what the right wants us all to think about Islam — an irrational, raging murderous horde who wants to kill us all. It could be total BS, but it won't matter. Al Qaeda and Iraq were allies. Iraq had WMDs. We've always been at war with Eastasia.

I've been half-listening to the discussion on that local TV news station and it's already starting. The anchorwoman asked the terrorism expert if this crazed ferocious attacking was typical of Chechens and asked where that came from.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [19 favorites]


From the boxing pictures:
If he wins enough fights there, Tamerlan says he could be selected for the US Olympic team and be naturalized American. Unless his native Chechnya becomes independent, Tamerlan says he would rather compete for the United States than for Russia.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:16 AM on April 19, 2013


Not cool Chechens; I thought your beef was with the Bear, not the Eagle.

Also, I bet a lot of people are confused as to should they be considered white people or brown people...
posted by Renoroc at 5:17 AM on April 19, 2013


Wow. The quotes from the MMA boxing page are interesting in the light of events:

- "Originally from Chechnya, but living in the United States since five years, Tamerlan says: "I don't have a single American friend, I don't understand them."
- "If he wins enough fights there, Tamerlan says he could be selected for the US Olympic team and be naturalized American. Unless his native Chechnya becomes independent, Tamerlan says he would rather compete for the United States than for Russia."
- "Tamerlan, who studies at Bunker Hill Community College in Boston and wants to become an engineer, took the semester off from school to train for the competition."
- "Tamerlan says he doesn't usually take his shirt off so girls don't get bad ideas: "I'm very religious."
- Tamerlan says he doesn't drink or smoke anymore: "God said no alcohol." A muslim, he says: "There are no values anymore," and worries that "people can't control themselves."

I mean, if you had checklist of things to look for in a bomber, few friends, violent/disrupted childhood, engineering knowledge, recent devotion to religion. He certainly trends towards a certain profile.
posted by MuffinMan at 5:18 AM on April 19, 2013 [16 favorites]


All taxi service in Boston has been suspended, according to WBZ news.
posted by not_on_display at 5:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I went to bed and got 4 hours' sleep and certainly didn't expect this last turn of events with the IDs. I'm guilty of feeling the ID of the Brown student as suspect #2 was probably correct although I did note that his name was never, ever given by any authority and was only Tweeted by a person claiming to have heard it on the police scanner.

I'm starting to wonder how skilled a number of untrained news bloggers are going to have been in managing their language around the various brown people confidently fingered on Twitter as suspects

THere is a lot of unclearness about what means what that I noticed. What "suspect" means, what a "source" is, etc.

There are some good things the internet did in this incident but also a lot of seriously wrong things. I'm going back to my NY Times and giving up on this rush. The 24-hour news cycle comes in for a lot of critique; constant Tweeting and updating is a part of that same illness. Maybe I don't need the fastest/latest/most accurate news, just the real news. Part of the reason old media is slow (well, I'm going to confine my comments to newspapers) is that they have to verify things. They have to do on-the-ground reporting and sort out the kind of confusion we saw last night to put into a coherent presentation. And that takes time. Slow News.

I just hope they get the guy fast because so many people are impacted today and it is unthinkable that he evades capture.
posted by Miko at 5:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, I bet a lot of people are confused as to should they be considered white people or brown people...
From upthread (from chat):
empath: he's LITERALLY caucasian
empath: as in from the caucuses
inire: Impossible to be more Caucasian
posted by delmoi at 5:19 AM on April 19, 2013 [21 favorites]


Also, I bet a lot of people are confused as to should they be considered white people or brown people...

Given the divergent opinions here based on the pictures last night Chechnyans is an actually satisfactory answer; it explains, more or less, what everyone was seeing.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:21 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Cable news needs to really cool it

Stay away from cable news. Watch Boston WHDH! This has been said over and over in this thread, I know, but they were great all night. They seem to have good sources and have consistently reported breaking news while avoiding all the infuriating speculation/mistaken reports. Not sure how they've done it, tbh.
posted by torticat at 5:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


I woke up at 7:30 and started reading this thread from when I went to bed at 11:00. Holy Hell. What an incredible thread, guys. And I cannot even imagine what it must be like to wake up to this when it is happening in your neighborhood.

So who won the pot by guessing Chechens? Anybody? This makes it more horrifying to me somehow-- I just picture these guys as kids living in the middle of a bloody war and then growing up and bringing the war with them. Heartbreaking.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


What We Know About Boston Marathon Bomb Suspects Dzhokhar And Tamerlan Tsarnaev
posted by jonp72 at 5:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


The anchorwoman asked the terrorism expert if this crazed ferocious attacking was typical of Chechens

Ha. This is bad enough. I literally can not imagine the response if something similar to the Beslan siege or the Moscow theater crisis happened in the US.
posted by dragoon at 5:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Given how uncommon the suspects names are it's not hard to find these boys parents names. And I hate that for them (provided they were innocent in all this).

I almost wish they'd had the last name Smith because you know they're family will be bombarded now because they're so easily located...
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just hope they get the guy fast because so many people are impacted today and it is unthinkable that he evades capture.

Even if they get the guy, I'm sure the "shelter in place" order will remain in place for several hours since they still don't know if the suspects were working alone, or are part of a larger cell.

Anyways, my thoughts are with you all up there. Stay safe.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:28 AM on April 19, 2013


So who won the pot by guessing Chechens? Anybody?

I made a comment to my wife that one thing I hated about all the day one speculation is that someone was going to be right, and they were going to think that their knee jerk assumption that it was Arabs or Tea Party supporters or whomever was just logical and that their speculation was justified.

Turns out I might be wrong; I don't think anyone was guessing Chechens.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Anybody have more info on the "foreign military training" thing?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:28 AM on April 19, 2013


They're going to be forced into the mold of the 9/11 suicide bombers, except with more shooting people and less accepting death quietly.

The first time I hear "sleeper cell" (surely any minute now), I've got BINGO.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:29 AM on April 19, 2013


What We Know About Boston Marathon Bomb Suspects Dzhokhar And Tamerlan Tsarnaev

"A Dagestani, a Chechen, and an Ingush man are sitting in a car.
Question: Who is driving?
Answer: The police."

:(
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


I was up until three am last night listening to the police scanner and reading chat.metafilter ... I have awakened with what can only be called a "news hangover."
posted by Unified Theory at 5:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


LOL, Somerville.
RT: @311Somerville all City services are not effected by the manhunt in Watertown, please move your car for street sweeping
posted by maryr at 5:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [38 favorites]


NPR just played a Storycorps episode featuring a guy who lost his leg and then became a marathon runner, and I have to say it made me weepy. THAT's the attitude we should be having for these folks who were hurt in the bombing.
posted by bibbit at 5:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Slice of normal: trash pickup in Somerville proceeding as usual. Poor guys.
posted by shortfuse at 5:31 AM on April 19, 2013


If the manhunt were in Somerville, they would ask the SWAT team to move their vans for street sweeping.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [12 favorites]


jonp72: "What We Know About Boston Marathon Bomb Suspects Dzhokhar And Tamerlan Tsarnaev"

It's jarring to read through all of that material and then hit "18 Microwave Snacks You Can Cook in a Mug"
posted by jquinby at 5:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


Well, at least it's not going by common terms and popping up with the 15 Best Pressure Cooker Recipes. *shudder*
posted by zombieflanders at 5:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]


The WBUR livestream is insane right now: Robin Young (local commentator) has her NEPHEW on air; he went to school with the guy. She just called him "sweetheart" on the air.

WBUR
posted by athenasbanquet at 5:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Right now on WBUR, one of the anchors is interviewing her nephew, who went to school with Dzhokhar.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:35 AM on April 19, 2013


WHDH has an address that they aren't revealing. They've impressed me.
posted by benito.strauss at 5:35 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


please move your car for street sweeping
STAY AWESOME, SOMERVILLE.

That's even funnier than the National Guard truck with the Boston parking ticket on it.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [8 favorites]


Holy cow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:36 AM on April 19, 2013


CBS Boston just had the boys' uncle on the air. This is insane.
posted by Kinbote at 5:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Anybody have more info on the 'foreign military training' thing?"

I haven't heard any substantiation of that whatsoever. I think it was just pure assumption.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:36 AM on April 19, 2013


@ABCBREAKING: Suspect #2 believed to have assault rifles, assortment of other weapons
Well, that'll get interesting.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:37 AM on April 19, 2013


My wife's aunt, mid 80s, has lived in Watertown all her life and is scared someone is going to break in on any given day. Thank god she is in the hospital, I am afraid she couldn't handle this.
posted by shothotbot at 5:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I went to bed early (for me) last night. This is nuts. I feel like we've all woken up in a Tom Clancy novel.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


That's even funnier than the National Guard truck with the Boston parking ticket on it.

Sidenote: I have a friend who works for a certain federal law enforcement agency. Fighting parking tickets is a disappointingly/hilariously large part of his job.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


WHDH: There are a whole mess of cops massing on a property near where the firefight occurred.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:38 AM on April 19, 2013


Possibly near Laurel and Oak?
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:39 AM on April 19, 2013


I haven't heard any substantiation of that whatsoever. I think it was just pure assumption.

I was sick of MSNBC mentioning it without any sort of attribution, so I went to the WHDH livestream and it was like one of the first things they stated. Seems weird, though -- means Suspect #2 was living his life in Cambridge all year, then spending summers in Chechnya getting military training?

Also, this kid is going to end up dead too, isn't he?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Checking back in now. Feel really bad for relaying the police scanner info, which now appears to be incorrect, about the missing student. I can only imagine the additional stress this entire situation has caused for his family.

Lots to process this morning with the news about these guys being Chechen terrorists.
posted by BobbyVan at 5:39 AM on April 19, 2013


WHOA. Armored truck just pulled in, personnel with guns drawn.
posted by cooker girl at 5:40 AM on April 19, 2013


The cops on the scanner are being veeeeery careful. They sound like they want to take him alive FWIW.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:40 AM on April 19, 2013


CNN is now all abuzz because they smell smoke in the air, there's a helicopter and lots of police activity in Watertown.
posted by chavenet at 5:40 AM on April 19, 2013


Police seem to surrounding a house.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:41 AM on April 19, 2013


And I cannot even imagine what it must be like to wake up to this when it is happening in your neighborhood.

We're two to three miles away. My fiancée came and woke me up to tell me about it. I was lying there thinking, "this is the least tense and wound up I'm going to be all day." Then I came here.
posted by jhc at 5:41 AM on April 19, 2013


Either that or some rando with a black hoodie is about to have a REALLY bad day.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:41 AM on April 19, 2013


watching the police helicopter from out our front window. about 1/4 mile away, maybe?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:42 AM on April 19, 2013


Well, obviously they want him alive!

Crazy to hear NPR reporter realize she has photos of bombing suspect in his prom tux.
posted by maryr at 5:42 AM on April 19, 2013


This thread is reminding me of where I was one morning almost 12 years ago. Just wanted to thank everyone for being on top of new information as it comes in. Compared to the reliability of major news outlets, I've realized why I prefer to come here.
posted by samsara at 5:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


WHDH took down video voluntarily a few minutes ago, but have a guy on the scene.
posted by torticat at 5:43 AM on April 19, 2013




Hey all just woke up. ...............

I know it's probably been posted but I there's a lot to scroll and I'm freaked out for personal reasons and not quite thinking straight.

What is the best livestream net coverage to go to?
posted by Jalliah at 5:43 AM on April 19, 2013


HDH just lost live feed, cops surrounding a house. Not giving the address.
posted by maryrussell at 5:44 AM on April 19, 2013


I was beginning to think this ounded like an ARG or "War of the Worlds" type thing, but then I realized that no writer would think a lockdown of all metro Boston was at all plausible.

To my old neighbors in Meffa/Sum'ville and Brighton and Allston (Lockdown) Rock City, take care. This is wild and scary.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Remember when Margaret Thatcher dying was big news?
posted by benito.strauss at 5:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


CBS Local
posted by R. Mutt at 5:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Compared to the reliability of major news outlets, I've realized why I prefer to come here.

Yeah, I know Matt doesnt like news threads and obviously they are a huge pain for all the mods, but I really, really prefer to get information here.
posted by shothotbot at 5:44 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]


WCVB has decent live coverage, Jalliah. Not a lot of speculation, just facts.
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


WBUR has been very good so far.
posted by athenasbanquet at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Excellent and non-inflammatory: http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013


CNN just switching to "delayed" signal "so we don't show anything unduly violent"
posted by chavenet at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013


whdh 7 in Boston - camera feeds off though as per police request
posted by marienbad at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013


Checking back in now. Feel really bad for relaying the police scanner info, which now appears to be incorrect, about the missing student. I can only imagine the additional stress this entire situation has caused for his family.

Well, hey, at least we're all learning some valuable -

Lots to process this morning with the news about these guys being Chechen terrorists.

Ah.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [15 favorites]




Thanks all. :)
posted by Jalliah at 5:46 AM on April 19, 2013


This twitter feed (posted here a few thousand comments ago) is a good collection of official and news tweets, if you prefer text to video.
posted by jhc at 5:47 AM on April 19, 2013


Despite your recent travails, I'm really fucking jealous that Bostonians have daily access to a) local news of this amazing caliber and b) chowder.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


If the scanner is to be believed, they think there might be a rocket in one of the houses. Jesus, this is getting even crazier, if that's possible.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:47 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


What We Know About Boston Marathon Bomb Suspects Dzhokhar And Tamerlan Tsarnaev

I was half expecting that to be a big page that said only, "Nothing, people. We were thinking Al-Qaeda and totally didn't see this coming."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Mother Jones: Boston Bombing Suspect Posted Video on Al Qaeda Prophecy on YouTube
posted by BobbyVan at 5:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


AQ are active in Chechnya.
posted by marienbad at 5:50 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm really fucking jealous that Bostonians have daily access to a) local news of this amazing caliber and b) chowder.

*snerk* I'm a New England expat; I actually consoled myself on Monday by making chowder that night for dinner.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


My husband works in Newton and is coincidentally working an hour+ out of town today. Absolutely everything in Boston seems to be closed, judging by email/Twitter. The tot and I are safe in Back Bay hunkered down with Elmo. Lots of sirens... hope this is over soon and with no more casualties. This is just... I'm trying to be cool, but I'm really freaked out.
posted by sonika at 5:51 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


So who won the pot by guessing Chechens? Anybody?

*raises hand* Actually, I think what I said was that I would bet money it was a descendant of the Chechen diaspora of the 1800s that was raised in either Turkey, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Jordan or Iraq.
posted by dejah420 at 5:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't know why I started to cry when I read how young these guys are, but I did. I'm turning into my mom.
posted by rtha at 5:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]


They're interviewing one of his former teachers He says the guy was a really nice guy, caring, nice guy, etc. "Totally clean cut" - It sounds like his older brother was the bad one, not many friends while the younger brother had more friends.
posted by delmoi at 5:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


HUge Hug sonika
posted by Wilder at 5:52 AM on April 19, 2013


If I might intrude on the collective freak-out just a bit, it's worth remembering that these losers had to improvise their big hit bombs from pressure cookers and low explosive. There is a limit to the arsenal and 007-level gadgetry they can be expected to produce.

This isn't 9/11. It's very exactly similar to Columbine, with a little more competence. There is no Chechen cause here, except for the fact that the brothers are disaffected and angry. They attacked the US because that's where they are and they didn't have the means to get anywhere else. They would have probably gone off wherever else their parents might have moved after the diaspora.

Oh, and driving a Benz does not make one affluent. I have a friend who bought a used Benz but who otherwise doesn't have a pot to piss in.
posted by localroger at 5:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]


sonika, Elmo sounds pretty much perfect right about now.

I think I'll go bake cookies. Why couldn't my new job have started today instead of next week?
posted by cooker girl at 5:54 AM on April 19, 2013


Didn't they carjack the Benz?
posted by RussHy at 5:55 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm really fucking jealous that Bostonians have daily access to a) local news of this amazing caliber and b) chowder.

The really weird thing is, when WHDH was bought by Sunbeam in the early 1990s it was the "if it bleeds, it leads" station. Of course, that title has long since passed to FOX25...
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I was going to suggest sonika go bake cookies. Small child + baking = enough distraction?
posted by hoyland at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013


It's jarring to read through all of that material and then hit "18 Microwave Snacks You Can Cook in a Mug"

Enough with the graphic images already!
posted by Rykey at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013


Thank you for that, localroger. It seems pretty apparent to me that with their family makeup and the nature of the things used in the attack, this isn't some grand conspiracy by Muslims to terrorize us but instead two just really fucked up kids. But hey, that narrative isn't great for cable news so, you know...

(Also, I drive a BMW. I'm a single mother living in poverty -- it's 20+ years old. But I guarantee you could spin that to make me look like an affluent member of society too, if you wanted.)
posted by youandiandaflame at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013


The YouTube video posted by the older brother is certainly an interesting clue. These guys do seem to be pretty religious (at least one of them). With that said, there is a vast difference between "I'm a part of al Qaeda" or even "I'm a part of a political separatist movement" and "I'm a bit lonely and unhinged and was motivated by apocalyptic al Qaeda videos to do something horrible because it gives me some measure of control over my shitty life."
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


Oh, Sonika, that's scary! I'm so sorry. Big internet hugs!
posted by dejah420 at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2013


NYC UPDATE *ALERT TO POLICE* Lookout for Honda CRV, MA Plate #36ES9 - Poss heading to #Manhattan Male white may be wearing suicide vest
posted by BobbyVan at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013


They're interviewing one of his former teachers

Guys, if you want to know what's happening now, go to WHDH.
posted by torticat at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013


This isn't 9/11. It's very exactly similar to Columbine, with a little more competence. There is no Chechen cause here, except for the fact that the brothers are disaffected and angry. They attacked the US because that's where they are and they didn't have the means to get anywhere else. They would have probably gone off wherever else their parents might have moved after the diaspora.
Except that most people are saying these were "wholesome", clean-cut well liked, 'white-hat' was described as "caring" by a former teacher. etc, not outcasts. Very strange.

Oh and he has a girlfriend. Very, very uncommon with these loner shooter types.

Maybe they thought they would do this and totally get away with it, and get on with their lives?
posted by delmoi at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013


Guy saying Suspect #2 came by to pick up his girlfriend's car on TUESDAY. He seemed nervous.

Making cookies helped calm me down last night. Eating them will help thus morning.
posted by maryr at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


RussHy: "Didn't they carjack the Benz?"

One of the albums featuring the older brother shows him walking away from his car, which is a MB.
posted by jquinby at 5:57 AM on April 19, 2013


Sweet mother of fuck.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Scanner: "He is boasting online 'I will kill all you as you killed my brother.'"
posted by zombieflanders at 5:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, the live scanner is nuts. Did they just relay that the suspect said "I will kill all you as you killed my brother"?
posted by youandiandaflame at 6:00 AM on April 19, 2013


I just got a reverse 911 in Boston, but I hit "1 for English" too early and it hung up
posted by benito.strauss at 6:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Kind of the suspects to have such unique, googleable names.
posted by maryr at 6:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Live scanner link (in case you missed it upthread).
posted by youandiandaflame at 6:00 AM on April 19, 2013


From the What We Know About Boston Marathon Bomb Suspect
The City of Cambridge appears to have given him a $2,500 scholarship in 2011
Uh oh. Somebody is going to be in trouble for this. Not that I think they should have had second sight and guessed what the future held for Tsarnaev, but once this becomes widely known there will be some blowback.

Somebody with a familiarity of Russian language/names: Is there any significance to having a last name that starts "Tsar"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 AM on April 19, 2013


Oh what the fuck Inigo Montoya shit is that.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:01 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


I'd say the odds of this guy being take alive are rapidly approaching zero.
posted by jquinby at 6:02 AM on April 19, 2013


Guys, if you want to know what's happening now, go to WHDH.

Link to live WHDH feed? Only see old videos on their site.
posted by Rykey at 6:02 AM on April 19, 2013


youandiandaflame: Someone has spoofed a Twitter account in the live suspect's name, and has "Dzhokar" threatening police.
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 6:02 AM on April 19, 2013


Is there any significance to having a last name that starts "Tsar"?

Maybe find an American named "King" and ask them.
posted by aught at 6:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]


youandiandaflame: "Live scanner link (in case you missed it upthread)."

I find it unnerving that the Scanner Link calls this a "show"


All Shows
1 - 1 of 1

Manhunt in Watertown: Apr 19, 2013

on now
posted by chavenet at 6:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Link to live WHDH feed?

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive
posted by cooker girl at 6:03 AM on April 19, 2013


Apparently the older brother was arrested for domestic assault and battery in 2009.
posted by dragoon at 6:03 AM on April 19, 2013


No idea, Gravy, but it's probably as significant as having the last name "Kingsley".
posted by GhostintheMachine at 6:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ah, thanks for that Andrew. It's being reported over the scanner so I took it as gospel. I suppose the police are just being cautious and not necessarily reporting it as fact. I clearly need to calm down with this scanner, man.
posted by youandiandaflame at 6:04 AM on April 19, 2013


I can't hug all my family who is in Boston right now, that is a little frustrating.

I come from a big close-knit family, and when things happen, we always get together and eat and talk, because there's nothing else you can do sometimes.

I know some people do not like the breaking news threads, but I'm at work right now and in New York and can't hug anyone or bake anyone cookies. So thanks mefi, for filling in for me. Internet hugs and cute kitten gifs for everyone.
posted by inertia at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2013


Friends in Cambridge, Belmont and Watertown have gotten reverse 911 calls this morning to stay inside.
posted by ericb at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2013


Apparently, the suspect just posted online somewhere, according to the police radio. "I'm going to kill all of you, like you killed my brother."

I wonder where they are reading that? I'm checking out the videos on Tamerlan's Youtube right now. Lots of extremist Islam kind of stuff.
posted by markkraft at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2013


NYC UPDATE *ALERT TO POLICE* Lookout for Honda CRV, MA Plate #36ES9 - Poss heading to #Manhattan Male white may be wearing suicide vest

holy mother of fuck with five-point restraints and a lobster bib please no i can't handle that i'm already freaked out because my whole family is in massachusetts i would not be able to handle this
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]


What bright young spark from the interbutt thought that now was the time for a spoof twitter?
posted by Countess Elena at 6:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Rykey - police asked for cameras off
posted by marienbad at 6:06 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, I'm really angry about that fake twitter account. This isn't the time for deliberate misinformation.
posted by Area Man at 6:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


WHDH livestream is giving me a 503 right now.

[edit] OK it's loading now.
posted by Peevish at 6:07 AM on April 19, 2013


WBUR repeating timeline that basically comes down to Don't Fuck With 7-11.
posted by maryr at 6:07 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


A lot of random shit from the internet ends up on that scanner, apparently.
posted by delmoi at 6:08 AM on April 19, 2013


oh man the Fbi is going to raid the f out of the person who's made a spoof twitter account and disrupting a live police investigation
posted by Burgatron at 6:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


police asked for cameras off

I am pretty solid on freedom of the press, but not showing live pictures of a siege seems reasonable.
posted by shothotbot at 6:08 AM on April 19, 2013


We don't have the stuff for baking, but we do have ice cream. I'm not worried about US right now, we're in a really safe spot, but y'know EVERYBODY ELSE.

I heard on the Twitters that a Cambridge police officer was killed, but no confirmation of that from an actual news source. Elmo's news is limited to bringing us the latest in How Many Wheels Are On A Bicycle.

(So far, still just two. If it changes, Elmo is on it.)
posted by sonika at 6:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [40 favorites]


oh man Fbi is going to raid the f out of the person making a spoof twitter account right now

Unless that person is in Russia or China or Australia or something, of course.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Boston_Police Twitter: #MediaAlert: WARNING: Do Not Compromise Officer Safety by Broadcasting Tactical Positions of Homes Being Searched.
posted by inertia at 6:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


Recycling and street sweeping still happening in the Winter Hill area of Somerville, even as I'm listening to sirens go roaring up McGrath Highway.
posted by angels in the architecture at 6:10 AM on April 19, 2013


Maybe find an American named "King" and ask them.

No idea, Gravy, but it's probably as significant as having the last name "Kingsley".

But it may not be. I have no idea if Russian names have a different significance because I have not studied Russian names and naming traditions. Not all names around the world are based on the same traditions of status/work/location as English language names. So that's why I was asking for someone with a knowledge of Russian culture/language.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Unless suspect No. 2 paused to create a Twitter account an hour ago and upload a profile pic that had already been on Twitter, this is a what the Internet has come to: goading cops online while the manhunt rages.
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 6:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Just got the reverse 911 call from the CITY OF BOSTON. Staying inside.
posted by ericb at 6:11 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


FYI, lockdown area now contains towns from three different counties (Suffolk, Norfolk, and Middlesex)
posted by maryr at 6:11 AM on April 19, 2013



I want to not follow this. I tried turning it all off and distracting myself but I find that's more stressful then listening. So now I'm trying a combo.


Living in surreal land right now playing EVE with police scanner on in the background.
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 AM on April 19, 2013


LaTulippe: "This week is so bad that an Elvis-impersonating conspiracy theorist sent poison to Obama and THAT'S LIKE THE TENTH BIGGEST STORY"
posted by exogenous at 6:12 AM on April 19, 2013 [79 favorites]


Wow. WHDH reporter being very discreet even though something is going on. He basically just said he couldn't describe what he was seeing.
posted by torticat at 6:12 AM on April 19, 2013


The root that name is "tsarn" not "tsar."
posted by griphus at 6:13 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


HDH being oblique about situation; something just happened?
Also, news reporting suspect's father calling him a gifted medical student. At 19? No.
posted by maryrussell at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013


I have no idea if Russian names have a different significance because I have not studied Russian names and naming traditions.

Since the suspects are ethnic Chechyans, Russian name conventions might not even apply. And I would think if there were any Chechyans MeFites interested in sharing with the group, we'd know by this point.
posted by aught at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013


Somerville has finally issued a shelter-in-place advisory.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013


Is the uncle the dude that looks like Fred Durst? The video feed is screwy for me.
posted by playertobenamedlater at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013


It's being reported over the scanner so I took it as gospel. I suppose the police are just being cautious and not necessarily reporting it as fact.

There are over 600 law enforcement officers on the ground around Boston. The scanner is not any kind of official statement podium; it's a firehose of unfiltered, unverified information. A lot of the information going across the scanner between agencies and personnel has been unsubstantiated rumours. 20 years ago crime reporters monitored the scanner and then went out to get two reliable sources to verify before discarding or reporting. Now it's posted and re-tweeted line by line and there's no filtering going on in the public's minds at all, as we saw this morning when two people were incorrectly named, via Reddit > Twitter > online news > broadcast news, for more than five continuous hours.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]


Is there any significance to having a last name that starts "Tsar"?

"Tsaraev" is a variant of "Tsarev", I believe, which means "royal". You get it in pre-revolutionary placenames, as well. It's just a Russian surname, AFAIK. Very little chance it has any deeper meaning.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:14 AM on April 19, 2013


Everything about this makes me really pissed. Mostly at the internet.
posted by likeatoaster at 6:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Sorry, to be more clear: WHDH reporter said that at that house that was rushed by police, things had in one way calmed down but in another way had kind of "spread out." And that he didn't feel he could say more right now. This is at the location where they have their video shut down.
posted by torticat at 6:15 AM on April 19, 2013


No, the Durst guy is a mechanic who saw them on Tuesday.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


maryr: WBUR repeating timeline that basically comes down to Don't Fuck With 7-11.

I'd love a summary of that timeline for folks that are limited to text only.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:16 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just realized that everything I know about the Chechnya/Russian war comes from HBO documentaries.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:16 AM on April 19, 2013


Also, news reporting suspect's father calling him a gifted medical student. At 19? No.

I can't help but this of my clueless (but somewhat arrogant) uncle who, years ago, advised my cousin who worked at a video store that used computers to check in returned discs to put her job title as "Computer Analyst."
posted by aught at 6:17 AM on April 19, 2013


From the city of Somerville:
Due to an ongoing manhunt in the Boston area, state authorities have shut down the MBTA and issued a shelter-in-place advisory for a number of surrounding towns. At this time, Somerville has NOT been included in the advisory, but we ask that Somerville residents observe the shelter-in-place advisory. If possible, please stay home, keep doors locked, and do not open the door for anyone other than identified law enforcement officials. Please also limit travel as much as possible. State authorities do not perceive a threat to our community, and residents are not required to remain in their homes, but please use common sense and stay tuned to area news sources for updates
posted by rmd1023 at 6:19 AM on April 19, 2013


Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 25s
So I've now seen several accounts that the younger brother went through all of high school in Cambridge. Meaning he's been here since 14.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:20 AM on April 19, 2013


I'd love a summary of that timeline for folks that are limited to text only.

Guardian Live summary (38 mins ago)
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:20 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, WHDH talking to student who went to highschool with him in Cambridge.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 AM on April 19, 2013


"Also, news reporting suspect's father calling him a gifted medical student. At 19? No. "

Well, not in North America. But medical degrees are undergraduate degrees elsewhere.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:23 AM on April 19, 2013


Ugh, it's too early for me to be schooling people on etymology. I've been misreading the name as "Tsarnanaev." Anyway, "Tsarnaev" could be derived from "Tsar," but especailly considering this guy is from Chechnya, it wouldn't hold any more significance than if it was a Sicilian guy named "Caesar."
posted by griphus at 6:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


Reddit, Boston and the missing student - when crowd sourcing goes wrong
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


CNN, maintaining the quality journalism and airtight integrity that they have displayed over the last 48 hours, apparently made the decision to air the address of the uncle of the suspects. F'in brilliant.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The surname Dzhokhar is certainly meaningful in contemporary Chechnya. If Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is 19, he was born in 1994, severals months before the first Chechen war (1st December).
posted by elgilito at 6:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I was wondering when they would pull the scanner feeds.
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 6:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


"The BBC Moscow bureau reports that Dzhokhar Tzarnaev moved to the US in 2001 or 2002 from Makhachkala - the capital of Dagestan, a southern Caucasus Republic near to Chechnya. His school there says he was only a student for a couple of years, and had arrived from Kyrgyzstan." (source)

Apologies if this is old news.
posted by kariebookish at 6:25 AM on April 19, 2013


The father says he is a "second year medical correspondent". I have no idea what that means.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:25 AM on April 19, 2013


'Tsar' just means chief. The head of a village up in the mountains can be called the Tsar.
posted by unSane at 6:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


One is now believed to have been a student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin...

The high school from which Matt Damon and Ben Affleck graduated.
posted by ericb at 6:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Also, news reporting suspect's father calling him a gifted medical student. At 19? No

If he graduated high school in 2011, he could very well have been in college for two years in preparation for medical school. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a father in another country to describe him as a medical student if that's the case.
posted by Dojie at 6:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


For the record, anyone have a count on how many false "suspects" have been identified so far this week?
posted by edgeways at 6:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I heard the name Dzhokhar when in the shower this morning and immediately thought of Dzhokhar Dudaev. Years ago, I had a friend from the caucusus who liked to wear a t-shirt with a picture of Dudaev. I'm wondering if he's kept up his ties to people back home and whether he'll be visited by the FBI.
posted by Area Man at 6:28 AM on April 19, 2013


Charles Pierce: Grozny on the Charles
posted by zombieflanders at 6:29 AM on April 19, 2013


One is now believed to have been a student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin...

The high school from which Matt Damon and Ben Affleck graduated.

So you are trying to say this is Hollywood's fault?
posted by shothotbot at 6:29 AM on April 19, 2013


If you're looking for significance in names, Tamerlan is a lot juicier.
posted by unSane at 6:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


UPDATE for Residents near Norfolk St. Somerville Police will shortly conduct a contained, controlled explosion of a suspicious object in the Norfolk Street area. The explosion will be contained and does not pose a threat. This is a safety precaution.

https://www.facebook.com/311Somerville/posts/583379651685834
posted by shortfuse at 6:30 AM on April 19, 2013


So you are trying to say this is Hollywood's fault?

I'm gonna go with "What is 'No' on this one, Alex."
posted by zombieflanders at 6:31 AM on April 19, 2013


Is anyone watching or reading any coverage of the place that the police swarmed, and where firetrucks arrived a while ago? I probably should respect WHDH's no doubt responsible blackout of the reporting they are getting from their guys on the ground there, but is it being covered elsewhere?
posted by torticat at 6:31 AM on April 19, 2013


For the record, anyone have a count on how many false "suspects" have been identified so far this week?

By Reddit? About 26. By Fox? More like 10. By credible news sources? At least three.
posted by DarlingBri at 6:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


I'll be very surprised if this guy lets himself be taken alive.
posted by Telpethoron at 6:33 AM on April 19, 2013


This appears to be the younger brother's (Russian?) Facebook account. Video in middle of page, someone (maybe older brother) speaking in a language that is not English. Also, spells his name "Djohar." Eerily, top of page says: "last seen today at 5:04 am"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:35 AM on April 19, 2013


Mod note: Yeah, let's not announce locations of police, fire, etc. here. Chat might be a good place to find that out.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:35 AM on April 19, 2013


MIT police officer killed in confrontation with terror suspects was Sean Collier, 26, of Somerville, per Middlesex DA.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:37 AM on April 19, 2013


This may be Dzhokar's real Twitter account. Last tweet is December 2012. Apparently a soccer fan.
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 6:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Felt a little sad when I posted about the MIT shooting last night in a thread and woke up this morning realizing that I had posted it in the wrong terrorism/shooting/explosion thread.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:38 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]



Two russian nationals pulled over in Niagra Falls.

On twitter feed so no clarification of course.

https://twitter.com/WGRZ
posted by Jalliah at 6:38 AM on April 19, 2013


Whoa there - since when is CNN a creditable news source?

Hey; they're getting there...
posted by Wordshore at 6:39 AM on April 19, 2013


Not that I'm a fan of them, but isn't this just the sort of situation where the Justice Department thought it would be OK to use drones? Even if just for surveillance?
posted by drezdn at 6:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I've been giving money to the Cambridge City scholarship fund the past 2-3 years (I don't remember if I did in 2011 and recently threw out my old checkbook records, so I can't tell). This is a serious bummer, but I'm going to keep giving.

Also, the Shell station on Memorial Drive is where I usually fuel up my car. It has an iconic sign (but not as big as the Citgo sign). The chase would have gone within a few blocks of my apartment, but I slept through it, and I can't say I mind.
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


.

for Sean Collier.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:40 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Yeah, let's not announce locations of police, fire, etc. here

Apologies, my question was unclear! I meant news sources, not anyone who would be irresponsibly give away locations and such. But yeah, point taken.
posted by torticat at 6:40 AM on April 19, 2013


Hey Empress:

NYC UPDATE *ALERT FOR SUSPICIOUS VEHICLE* Honda CRV, MA Plate #36ES9 has been found in Boston by POlice. #BREAKING
posted by BobbyVan at 6:41 AM on April 19, 2013


Apparently a soccer fan.

It's cool, Dzhokhar, Liverpool doesn't like you either.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [5 favorites]


I said this in chat, but I want it 'on the record,' so to speak -- times like this, I feel so lucky to have MeFi as a resource to sort out what is going on. I know it's Metafilter, not Newsfilter, but I think we do this pretty damn well.
posted by cmyk at 6:41 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


Andrew G: If that is his real Twitter account, he posted this tweet on December 17, 2012.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:41 AM on April 19, 2013


.

Sean Collier was a hero.
posted by drezdn at 6:42 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure what the significance of that tweet is supposed to be.
posted by OmieWise at 6:43 AM on April 19, 2013


What the hell? Chechnyan separatists?

Shouldn't we maybe hold off on all the linking to the suspects' possible Facebook/Twitter accounts, considering all the confusion that sort of thing has been creating so far?

I guess I'm glad we finally know a little more about what's going on here, but I still really wish there were some clearer picture of why they carried out these attacks and what (if anything) they hoped to accomplish beyond killing innocent people. I wish I knew more about what kind of role has the US played in Chechnya...
posted by saulgoodman at 6:44 AM on April 19, 2013


He likes french cheese?
posted by cmfletcher at 6:44 AM on April 19, 2013


One thing that didn't dawn on me until looking at photos for the white hat last night... If they would have timed the bombing differently, far more people could have been killed or injured. They are photos from the race where there are gigantic groups of people, to the point that it would have been hard to move.
posted by drezdn at 6:47 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm not sure what the significance of that tweet is supposed to be.

Well, it is pretty darn . . . strange, considering current events.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:47 AM on April 19, 2013


Jesse Rodriguez ‏@JesseRodriguez 47s
NBC: One suspect is believed to be in the Boston area. The other is believed to have taken a train to Connecticut.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:48 AM on April 19, 2013


I'm not sure what the significance of that tweet is supposed to be.

He was apparently tweeting in support of gun control.
posted by unSane at 6:48 AM on April 19, 2013


What the hell? Chechnyan separatists?

Even if their background is Chechen, it doesn't mean they are Chechen separatists or that the motive for these attacks was to establish Chechen independence.
posted by knapah at 6:48 AM on April 19, 2013 [14 favorites]


I'm not sure what the significance of that tweet is supposed to be.

Really? Is this a semantics thing? Are you just arguing that it's not "significant" but instead kind of strange that the bombing suspect would post a tweet suggesting he doesn't approve of violent weapons? Because yes, it's strange.
posted by pineappleheart at 6:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm not sure what the significance of that tweet is supposed to be.
You don't think it's a little ironic that he was tweeting in support of gun control a few months before becoming a terrorist and getting into massive shootouts with police?

(Assuming, Of course, he wasn't just a huge fan of exotic cheese)
posted by delmoi at 6:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


He was apparently tweeting in support of gun control.

Or just really opposed to the cruel oppression of ripe, unpasteurized soft cheeses.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:49 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


That gun control tweet will be used by the right to argue: "See, the terrorists want you to be defenseless."
posted by BobbyVan at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


What the hell? Chechnyan separatists?

Honestly, I think their politics are pretty murky at this point.

(I do think it's kind of amusing that the media assumes no one has ever heard of Dagestan. It's not like Anzhi Makhachkala were in this year's Europa League or anything. That was sarcasm. They were.)
posted by hoyland at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013


Shouldn't we maybe hold off on all the linking to the suspects' possible Facebook/Twitter accounts, considering all the confusion that sort of thing has been creating so far?

Yeah, I agree. Finding inflammatory political statements on the social networking site of a person from a Russian-speaking country is like pointing to a DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS bumper sticker on someone's car and assuming they're part of a secessionist militia.
posted by griphus at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


What the hell? Chechnyan separatists?

I wouldn't leap to that conclussion. TBH right now I wouldn't leap to any conclusions, the while thing being a clown car of contradictory data points from the start.
posted by Artw at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013


Even if their background is Chechen, it doesn't mean they are Chechen separatists or that the motive for these attacks was to establish Chechen independence.

Very true. That's why I tried to put it as a question. My only real operating theory here at this point is WTF?!?
posted by saulgoodman at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


This is just... I'm trying to be cool, but I'm really freaked out.


Sonika, I'm in Texas & I'm freaked out. I wish I could hug everyone in Boston right now.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:50 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


NBC: One suspect is believed to be in the Boston area. The other is believed to have taken a train to Connecticut.

Is "taking a train to Connecticut" slang for 'dead' now?
posted by maryr at 6:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [13 favorites]


They have been here 10 years? I would say they were Americans. How long do you have to be here before your country of origin is no longer considered relevant in terms of who you are and what you do? I guess we obviously need to learn more about their motivation...assuming suspect#2 is captured alive.

Assuming that these men had some kind of Chechen political agenda (which is still very much just an assumption at this point), that's not unheard of. Often members of diasporas have a more "nationalist" POV than individuals who still live in the homeland -- a mixture of selective nostalgia and nationalist ex-pat presses. If they were alienated young men, it wouldn't be surprising if they were more "nationalist" than their parents.
posted by dhens at 6:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Twitter account may be renamed football account.
posted by fullerine at 6:52 AM on April 19, 2013


My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:53 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


maryr, no, they are talking about the accomplice, the third person.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:53 AM on April 19, 2013


Do we even know those accounts are the real thing? At any rate, I wouldn't assume they are either just yet.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Links to social networking sites are kind of doxxy by proxxy, as well - I imagine people listed as friends or followers are going to start getting death threats. This is going to happen whether or not MetaFilter shares them, of course, but sometimes it's worth taking a view on these things regardless.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:54 AM on April 19, 2013 [9 favorites]


Both accounts posted above (the Russian FB account and Twitter account) had postings from 2012. So, possibly fake, but unlikely. Unless I'm not thinking through how else they could be manufactured.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:55 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's cool, Dzhokhar, Liverpool doesn't like you either.

Well, they still have Orange marches round these parts, so there'll be at least a few Liverpool fans spreading the 'jokes' and comments about karma, 'see how they like it for a change', &c. that a bombing in Boston inevitably prompted among the extreme dickhead wing of the Unionist community.
posted by jack_mo at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013


Feeling a bit like Tommy Lee Jones in No Country for Old Men this morning. Hells bells.
posted by seemoreglass at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


Tamerlan's Amazon Wishlist (allegedly).
posted by unSane at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013


It will be very interesting in the coming weeks and months to see what, if anything, changes about the how the media reports breaking news like this, what, if anything, changes about the ways people use social media.

As DarlingBri pointed out before, police scanner info being unfiltered and retweeted. The NYPost ran that cover with the two "suspects", people are posting the locations of the police, SWAT teams, etc. as they happen, Reddit/4chan's attempts to name suspects....

It's fascinating to me to watch the news reporting breaking news like this, in a time where there is such a constant, instant flow of information that law enforcement isn't sure how to deal with, and doesn't always allow for sources to be properly vetted as credible while things are happening.

If this was 20 years ago, the Boston Police might have asked the radio and television stations to stop posting exact locations of police activity. Now are they asking every single person with a smartphone or computer?
posted by inertia at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I mean, if the timeline I'm reading is correct, the younger of the two has been in the US for more than half his lifetime-- from the age of 9 onward. Hard to think of him as a radical Chechen.
posted by shakespeherian at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


maryr, no, they are talking about the accomplice, the third person.

There's a third accomplice now?

Both accounts posted above (the Russian FB account and Twitter account) had postings from 2012. So, possibly fake, but unlikely. Unless I'm not thinking through how else they could be manufactured.

Well, there's this:

Twitter account may be renamed football account.

Spoofers can always just rename existing, older accounts for the LULZ.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Both accounts posted above (the Russian FB account and Twitter account) had postings from 2012. So, possibly fake, but unlikely. Unless I'm not thinking through how else they could be manufactured.


The only thing I can think of is that someone with the same first name as Suspect 2 decided to revive his twitter account and mess around. In fact, I'm convinced of it.
posted by alligatorman at 6:57 AM on April 19, 2013


Got it. Makes sense.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Spoofers can always just rename existing, older accounts for the LULZ.


Or that .. that's probably it.
posted by alligatorman at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Yeah, the football/gun control account looks fake too.
posted by BobbyVan at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


There's a third accomplice now?

Yes, they've been talking about a third person since last night.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Twitter account may be renamed football account.
Hmm, good point.
posted by delmoi at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


That gun control tweet will be used by the right to argue: "See, the terrorists want you to be defenseless."

On #watertown, there's already been a steady stream of (paraphrasing, not exact quotes) "I bet those Watertown people wished they had guns" and "Gun control = if a terrorist comes to your door you only get 7 shots."
posted by Andrew Galarneau at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013


Chechens are largely Muslim.

Man, I was cringing as NPR's Morning Edition pointed this out very clunkily today. "Chechens are mostly Muslim?" "Chechens are largely Muslim."
posted by psoas at 6:58 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


If they would have timed the bombing differently, far more people could have been killed or injured. They are photos from the race where there are gigantic groups of people, to the point that it would have been hard to move.

It's hard to say. If you set off a bomb right next to a person, it kills that person, but then that person may shield people behind them, depending on the power of the bomb.
posted by smackfu at 6:59 AM on April 19, 2013


My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?


My cognitive diss is going strong right now. It's weird. The thought ' I just want to fast forward to the end (of this movie) and find out how it ends' keeps popping into my head.

Anyone else having surreal thoughts like this occuring?
posted by Jalliah at 6:59 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


The guns/cheese tweet isn't pro-gun-control. It's anti-government regulation. As in, "damn the nanny state for regulating raw milk." For some reason my facebook feed has at least one person in the "prepper" movement who posts stuff like that all the time. Talk about strange bedfellows - they hate Monsanto and Obama pretty much equally.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:00 AM on April 19, 2013


I doubt these guys woke up one day last week and decided they all of a sudden wanted/needed to strike a blow for a free Chechnya. The frosting here may seem political, but the cake is probably personal. More Columbine than Qaeda.
posted by vrakatar at 7:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Here's a nice, concise breakdown of the overnight events from WBUR in case, like me, you are still trying to catch up:

– After 10 p.m. last night, a robbery took place at a 7-Eleven in Cambridge
– After that, an MIT police officer was fatally shot, allegedly by the two marathon suspects
– There was a carjacking in Cambridge involving the two suspects taking a Mercedes SUV
– The car was discovered by police in Watertown, which led to an exchange of gunfire
– During the chase, explosive devices were reportedly thrown from the suspects’ car
– During the exchange, one suspect was killed
– Also during the exchange of gunfire, an MBTA officer was shot and is in critical condition
– The second suspect fled and is at-large
– There’s an active search for the suspect who fled, the FBI’s bombing “white hat suspect”
posted by Rock Steady at 7:00 AM on April 19, 2013 [23 favorites]


If you set off a bomb right next to a person, it kills that person, but then that person may shield people behind them, depending on the power of the bomb.

That's a good point... The new Mary Roach book actually talks about how much the human body can block an explosion (and weirdly enough, how explosive fertilizer is).
posted by drezdn at 7:03 AM on April 19, 2013


Is this his account?: http://vk.com/id160300242
posted by caddis at 7:03 AM on April 19, 2013


The guns/cheese tweet isn't pro-gun-control. It's anti-government regulation.

That may be how you read it but it was plastered all over FB by pro-gun-control types.
posted by unSane at 7:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


the cake is probably personal. More Columbine than Qaeda.

I totally buy that about Tamerlan -- his profile sounds very Columbiney. But Djohar? Unless he's totally under the thumb of his brother, or deeply impressionable, or like the weak link in a murder duo, he just doesn't seem to fit any of the usual scenarios.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:04 AM on April 19, 2013


webcache of previous name of twitter feed, "footytube_"
posted by stavrogin at 7:04 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


"My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?"

Maybe because people who do horrifying things aren't alien monsters from Andromeda possessed by Pure Evil but are more like the rest of us, and we like them, than we want to admit?

It's the banality of evil. Stanley Milgram and John Yoo and Lt. William Calley have taught us this, if somehow the majority of the German public during WWII didn't. Or all the soldiers who rape civilian women during every war from the beginning of time until yesterday. It just doesn't take much for someone to take a left turn into a brutal lack of empathy and acts of casual horror. Just, you know, that it makes sense and other people agree with me.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:05 AM on April 19, 2013 [33 favorites]


Suspect is identified as a student at UMass Dartmouth, and now that school is on lockdown.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:05 AM on April 19, 2013


The older brother was a Muslim and had got his girlfriend to convert, according to the photo captions. Don't know about the younger brother, who seems to have to been well liked by his American classmates and teachers.
Stupid question.....so the two brothers robbed the 7-11?
Yes.
posted by delmoi at 7:06 AM on April 19, 2013


backseatpilot, which suspect?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:07 AM on April 19, 2013


Does this kill immigration reform?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:07 AM on April 19, 2013


My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?

Ever heard of people hating their job, but keeping it while they plot to move onto a better one? Same basic idea. When one has a "mission" one can smile and act all sorts of ways, while keeping their eye on the goal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 AM on April 19, 2013


It's very odd to be outside of my country looking in right now...I feel so removed yet scared about what this means for the future. I was scared enough when the gun control bill failed....there are just so many angry and scared people out there right now and I am so sorry.

The birds are singing outside my window in the early afternoon and the entire city of Boston is just shut down.

Surreal.

Prayers and good thoughts for everyone. Things will get better- I have to believe that.
posted by Bibliogeek at 7:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Jesus, the boys' poor uncle. Listen to this interview.
posted by peacheater at 7:08 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Doesn't say, but I think it's the 19-year-old. UMass press release is pretty brief.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:09 AM on April 19, 2013


Maybe because people who do horrifying things aren't alien monsters from Andromeda possessed by Pure Evil but are more like the rest of us, and we like them, than we want to admit?

I never said or implied that they were. I'm quite aware that ordinary people do terrible things.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:09 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


I totally buy that about Tamerlan -- his profile sounds very Columbiney. But Djohar? Unless he's totally under the thumb of his brother, or deeply impressionable, or like the weak link in a murder duo, he just doesn't seem to fit any of the usual scenarios.

From what little we know at this point it looks like it could be a folie à deux type situation, with the elder brother going nuts and dragging the younger along with him.
posted by jack_mo at 7:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


If this was 20 years ago, the Boston Police might have asked the radio and television stations to stop posting exact locations of police activity. Now are they asking every single person with a smartphone or computer?

Pretty much. Unfortunately, this kind of appeal presupposes that people will not believe themselves to be a) more skilled in police work and profiling than the police themselves and b) possessed of an infallible sense about what it is appropriate to share. I imagine that there are people out there who read that request and became offended that the police are not being more appreciative of their help in keeping straight which areas they had so far searched.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:10 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Now looking for a grey Honda CRV with Mass. plates traveling through Connecticut.
posted by ericb at 7:10 AM on April 19, 2013


My mother is watching MSNBC and telling me that they have one suspect cornered and another on an Amtrak train.

I'm listening to the scanner and reading here and I'm not seeing anything like that.

Soooo, is my brain fried from the 24 hour news cycle or is my mother's? What did I miss?
posted by youandiandaflame at 7:12 AM on April 19, 2013


Suspect is identified as a student at UMass Dartmouth, and now that school is on lockdown.

They've evacuated his dorm and are scouring his room.
posted by ericb at 7:12 AM on April 19, 2013


I can't get the UMass statement to load, but just before it went down I was able to get to the main UMass Dartmouth website, which had a statement saying the campus is closed.
posted by pie ninja at 7:12 AM on April 19, 2013


youandiandaflame, nobody seems to be reporting that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:13 AM on April 19, 2013


Sort of a derail, but I think the "banality of evil" meme gets overplayed. Ron Rosenbaum wrote a pretty amazing rebuttal of Hannah Arendt on the subject a few years back.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:14 AM on April 19, 2013 [11 favorites]


Make that a folie a trois. That actually sounds much more plausible in accounting for Djohar's involvement.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:14 AM on April 19, 2013


roomthreeseventeen, I'm glad my brain is still working then. My mother is an avowed news junkie with an affinity for MSNBC. I've tried to talk her off it but there's no hope. Thanks for the clarity.
posted by youandiandaflame at 7:14 AM on April 19, 2013


Here's an NBC interview with a classmate "He was very normal, had lots of friends. Did relatively well from what I understand" She goes on to call him nice, funny and shy.

In fact, she said she instantly recognized him but assumed it was just a freak coincidence. (in fact, she had already heard that it was the guy from Brown. So presumably if they didn't already know who he was there's a chance that they might never have even found out due to the level of certainty the name was getting passed around with)
posted by delmoi at 7:15 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


youandiandaflame, NYT is reporting that an Amtrack train in Connecticut has been searched.
posted by inertia at 7:16 AM on April 19, 2013


Gray Honda believed to be in CT now.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:18 AM on April 19, 2013


I mean, if the timeline I'm reading is correct, the younger of the two has been in the US for more than half his lifetime-- from the age of 9 onward. Hard to think of him as a radical Chechen.

It doesn't surprise me that much. Reid and all four of the London bombers grew up in the U.K. Khan worked in an elementary school. I think, wasn't it Atran who suggested that many of the people involved in terrorism don't fit the crazy loner stereotype, but often are well-educated with strong civic and moral commitments that are devoted to a specific political cause?
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Jesus, the boys' poor uncle. Listen to this interview.
posted by peacheater at 9:08 AM on April 19
[2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

What on earth? That journalist is a jerk! "Oh hey, one of your nephews is dead and the other is on the run...what do you want to say to runners and the people of Mass?" The poor man handled it as best he could, basically telling the interviewer that if his nephew was involved he deserved to die but damn...way to emotionally ambush someone.
posted by jeanmari at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


New thread, moderator approved.

http://www.metafilter.com/127205/Boston-in-lockdown-as-hunt-for-marathon-bombers-unfolds
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


New thread! (Thanks, cortex)
posted by Rhaomi at 7:24 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


New Thread!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:25 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


FYI, the new thread was discussed with Cortex in the chat, and he gave it his tentative blessing, so it's likely to stick around.
posted by Bugbread at 7:26 AM on April 19, 2013


Does this kill immigration reform?

Not if people remember that Carlos Arredondo is an immigrant, too.
posted by philotes at 7:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [27 favorites]


Now I gotta camp two threads?
posted by Peevish at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013


That's a big if in today's political climate.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013


"I never said or implied that they were. I'm quite aware that ordinary people do terrible things."

Yeah, sorry: my comment was unfair to you. I'm responding to what I've been hearing on the TV and what I read/hear all the time in similar contexts. I feel pretty strongly that this, um — demon possession theory about people who commit evil? — is complicit in the perpetuation of the psychosocial conditions that allow such evil.

"I doubt these guys woke up one day last week and decided they all of a sudden wanted/needed to strike a blow for a free Chechnya. The frosting here may seem political, but the cake is probably personal. More Columbine than Qaeda."

I can't really see any reasoning behind this assertion other than that these kids lived here for many years, grew up here. But this is a deeply ironic position to take in the context of Boston, which has a high concentration of Irish Catholics who financially supported or even joined the IRA generations after their ancestors had moved to the US. As someone up-thread mentioned, and especially with disapora ethnic populations, and triply especially with those who left their homeland during a nationalist fight for independence, it's not unusual for those emigrated populations to be, on average, more radical than the people back in the home country.

So they may have harbored such radical political aspirations for all their lives. Or, yes, they might have awakened one day and decided with sudden fervor that this is their purpose in life. This is how this stuff works.

Or it's not political. But that it might be is entirely credible.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [7 favorites]


Jesus, the boys' poor uncle. Listen to this interview.

Poor guy.

Can someone help me make sense of the first part of that clip? The uncle reports calling one of his nephews a 'prick' during (I think) a discussion about Islam, and that he 'just cut from them' (either the brothers or the whole immediate family), but because the clip on the web starts mid-interview it's hard to know whether he's suggesting they'd parted ways over extremist views or something else entirely...

Make that a folie a trois.

Has a third suspect been confirmed? I just can't keep up with the cycle of report and retraction the media are caught in.
posted by jack_mo at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013


Now I gotta camp two threads?

My thought also.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013


It wasn't so much the blessing that was tentative as it was the belief that that wouldn't come back to haunt me somehow. After the way this week has gone I expect a piano to fall on my head at some point.
posted by cortex at 7:29 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?

Because it's really easy to kill people, as long as you can tell yourself they are Other. "Look at these people, cheerfully celebrating over a race while my people are dying!"
posted by corb at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


The Guardian's reporting the gray Honda Civic was found in Cambridge.
posted by mollweide at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013


Peevish: "Now I gotta camp two threads?"

Nope, you just have to switch over to the:

New Thread

That's right, a fancy shmancy New Thread. No reason to keep posting here folks, we have a...

New Thread
posted by Bugbread at 7:32 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


Nope, you just have to switch over to the:

New Thread

The mods should 'go ahead and close this one up', as they say in MetaTalk. Makes no sense to have two on the go.
posted by jack_mo at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Unless he's totally under the thumb of his brother, or deeply impressionable, or like the weak link in a murder duo, he just doesn't seem to fit any of the usual scenarios.

I don't know about this case, but it's not unusual for teenagers to be influenced into crimes by adults. They're more susceptible to social pressure than adults, and more easily manipulated by emotion -- an effect that doesn't fully fade in studies until about 25.

This report about juvenile life without parole in Massachusetts gives some interesting perspective on juvenile murderers (under 17 years old). For example, they tend to receive harsher penalties than adults. "In the United States, in 11 of the 17 years between 1985 and 2001, youth convicted of murder were more likely to enter prison sentenced to life without parole than were adults convicted of the same crime." The theory is that when you have adult and juvenile codefendants, the adults are smart enough to plea out and testify against the juveniles. Juveniles can't plan that far in advance -- 15 years in prison sounds as bad as a life sentence.

(I am totally not asking for sympathy for this particular kid at this point. Just saying that "teenager influenced by adult to do something terrible" is a common scenario.)
posted by jhc at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


Does this kill immigration reform?

There is no simple answer to this. But the answer is it makes the issue more, not less, toxic for its supporters because "soft on terror" is a label no serious politician wants, and if Republicans are able to link immigration to terror (as opposed to immigration as drugs, or immigration as anything else) then support will waver.

The current crop of hardline Republicans start with positions that are either anti-Obama or pro vested interests - preferably both - and backfill the reasons.

Hence absurd contortions on budgets or healthcare where senior Republicans criticise compromise positions they themselves have advocated.

Hence Iraq=Al Qaeda, Newtown means we need guns in schools, budget deficits mean lower taxes are needed. As long as the money is there to fund hardline policy positions and as long as there are enough channels of information to promulgate those policy positions then up can be down, sideways or anywhere else. The single largest defining feature of Republicanism at the moment is an unwillingness to compromise, because the rhetoric has ramped up to the extent that compromise threatens to wedge the party into two halves.

I suspect that there will be a running theme of the "enemy within", ignoring that hardline Republicans and tea partyists advocate openly want to take down the state, stocking up on ammunition to fight the tyranny of the state, the history of violent right wing groups, Timothy McVeigh, abortion bombers et al.
posted by MuffinMan at 7:34 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


jack_mo: "The mods should 'go ahead and close this one up', as they say in MetaTalk."

I believe MeFi and MetaTalk functionality are different, and you can't simply close up MeFi threads.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:36 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah but cortex could post a video of a cat playing a uke and totally make this thread worthless for discussion of anything else.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


The mods should 'go ahead and close this one up'

We don't have a mechanism for that on mefi, and in any case these things tend to naturally dry up to a creek if not a trickle on their own once the new thread comes along. No harm in folks who want to keep a low burble in here doing so, basically.
posted by cortex at 7:37 AM on April 19, 2013


My cognitive dissonance is deafening at this point. How the hell does a possibly pre-med, reportedly happy, well-adjusted, Americanized kid with friends magically end up standing nonchalantly cheek-by-jowl with a crowd of kids and spectators at a sporting event that he fully hopes he will have blown to bits 5 minutes later?

Because it's really easy to kill people, as long as you can tell yourself they are Other. "Look at these people, cheerfully celebrating over a race while my people are dying!

I don't think we know the motivations here clearly. What people are "my people?"
posted by sweetkid at 7:38 AM on April 19, 2013


Fair do's, cortex.
posted by jack_mo at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2013


Just in: Suspect 2 on the ground at gunpoint.

I just heard it on the scanner too. "Got a device on him."

"Keep a safe distance" the dispatcher warns.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:42 AM on April 19, 2013


Just in: Suspect 2 on the ground at gunpoint.

I just heard it on the scanner too. "Got a device on him."

"Keep a safe distance" the dispatcher warns.

Update: They're now saying he's in his 60's, with a "device" and a "transmitter" in his jacket. Could be nothing, could be 3rd suspect.
posted by BobbyVan at 7:44 AM on April 19, 2013


Second suspect is "on the ground at gunpoint?" Well, there's some deja vu. At this point, I'm not believing a word on that scanner, really.
posted by koeselitz at 7:46 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


So who's on second?
posted by de at 7:57 AM on April 19, 2013


Here's a link to QWOP to nudge the redirection. It's worked before.
posted by klarck at 8:06 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, sorry: my comment was unfair to you. I'm responding to what I've been hearing on the TV and what I read/hear all the time in similar contexts. I feel pretty strongly that this, um — demon possession theory about people who commit evil? — is complicit in the perpetuation of the psychosocial conditions that allow such evil.

And I apologize to you for stating my point incoherently :). I was specifically addressing the young (usually) men who do this particular type of super-violent blaze-of-glory crime. I ain't no expert, but in all the school/univ shootings and similar attacks, I've never ever heard one of those guys described as "a lovely person with lots of friends," They almost always seem to present much more like Tamerlan . . . mainly functional and normal but kind of complainy, detached, nursing some sort of grievance, misfit-y in at least some minor way. Disappointed about something, angry at mom or dad, etc.?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:15 AM on April 19, 2013


Scanners Live In Vain
posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


>"The frosting here may seem political, but the cake is probably personal. More Columbine than Qaeda."

I totally buy that about Tamerlan -- his profile sounds very Columbiney.

I think that opinion shows a remarkable lack of awareness about what the major threat is of Islamic terrorism nowadays.

These people aren't likely to have ever trained overseas with terrorists, and they've been in the US for long enough that their Chechen heritage isn't really the point. Rather, it was their isolation and separatism in the US, which turned them more towards their religion, which, in turn, turned them towards online hate preachers such as this guy, Sheikh Fahd Mohammed, who was repeatedly found on Tamerlan's youtube page.

Religion and the need for a sense of power and identity is a vulnerability that these preachers exploit, in order to further their irrelegious, amoral, murderous ends.

The Australians and British know about what this guy preaches, and he was outed on major news exposes in both countries.
" Sh Feiz: Today, many parents, they prevent their children from attending lessons, why? They fear they might create or place in their hearts, the love, just a bit of love, of sacrificing their lives for Allah. . . We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this, there is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid, put in their soft tender hearts the zeal of jihad and the love of martyrdom..."

Well, thanks to the internet his teachings are available worldwide, for anyone yearning for faith and a sense of strength, dignity, and identity. He's like a "rockstar" for those who identify as young, Islamic, and who want cred, much in the same way that this American was... until we dropped a drone on him, after he requested bombmaking equipment for a AQ training facility in Yemen that he was preaching at.

Where do you think Al Awlaki got the trainees for AQ in Yemen, who traveled from countries around the world -- including many western countries -- to personally hear the words of their preacher, and to learn the ways of jihad? They came from YouTube. And they're still coming, because the message is still out there.

And some who can't make the call? They will fight where they stand.

But never forget... though they may be critical of the US military, just as you may be... they are religious tyrants at heart, and are most certainly the enemy.
posted by markkraft at 8:27 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


New thread!
posted by limeonaire at 8:28 AM on April 19, 2013


though they may be critical of the US military, just as you may be... they are religious tyrants at heart, and are most certainly the enemy.

I'm more wiling to buy their uncle's "because they're losers" theory as opposed to ascribing their actions to religious tyranny.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:52 AM on April 19, 2013 [2 favorites]


until we dropped a drone on him

Man if drones worked that way I would find them a lot more comical.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:55 AM on April 19, 2013


Look at the tiny news scroll at bottom of screen
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:03 AM on April 19, 2013 [10 favorites]


So how long before that Bruce Willis movie with the Moslems becomes a sad reality?
posted by Renoroc at 9:17 AM on April 19, 2013


The Twitter account that posted the "guns vs. cheese" picture currently says "This is a PARODY account and is no way shape or form related with the real Dzhokhr Tsarnaev".
posted by Flunkie at 9:27 AM on April 19, 2013


They already made it.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 AM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Twitter account that posted the "guns vs. cheese" picture currently says "This is a PARODY account and is no way shape or form related with the real Dzhokhr Tsarnaev".

Wow. Way to read the room, fake Twitter account guy.
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:04 AM on April 19, 2013


That gun control tweet will be used by the right to argue: "See, the terrorists want you to be defenseless."

The far-right line on guns gets unwelcome endorsement
posted by homunculus at 10:56 AM on April 19, 2013 [6 favorites]


I was out and about today and there's a palpable sense of relief. The streets are full, but that's also just Saturday.

I will say that it feels properly Bostonian, I went out for burgers and chatted with some strangers and had others scowling at my toddler. Another day in Beantown.
posted by sonika at 2:52 PM on April 20, 2013 [3 favorites]


The Russian Connection : What Can Moscow’s Tip Tell Us About The Boston Bombings?
posted by jeffburdges at 9:40 AM on April 21, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm more wiling to buy their uncle's "because they're losers" theory as opposed to ascribing their actions to religious tyranny.
posted by EmpressCallipygos

Alot of "losers" in the world, 99% do not bomb children.
posted by clavdivs at 7:12 AM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Alot of strongly religious people in the world, 99.999% of them do not bomb children. These guys are an abberation regardless of what motivated them.
posted by Mitheral at 7:30 AM on May 6, 2013


Alot of "losers" in the world, 99% do not bomb children.

Well, no, some of them try to start fights by making weird nitpicky comments on the Internet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 AM on May 6, 2013 [4 favorites]


'A lot'. Or allot. But not alot.
posted by unSane at 8:01 AM on May 6, 2013


Maybe we could all just try and not start nit-picky fights at this late date?
posted by cortex at 8:13 AM on May 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


Starting nit-picky fights on the Internet is EXACTLY THE SAME as bombing children.

I know it's true because I saw it on the Internet.
posted by localroger at 9:30 AM on May 6, 2013


alot
posted by desjardins at 2:45 PM on May 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


I also spelled aberration incorrectly.
posted by Mitheral at 5:31 PM on May 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


I had previously failed to find an alot made of losers. Have alot of cake instead.
posted by maryr at 4:41 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]


A lot.
posted by Atreides at 5:24 PM on May 10, 2013


allotment, yes.

Perhaps we can blame Marshal arts?
posted by clavdivs at 7:51 AM on May 14, 2013


« Older "...the memory of a blue door with a small wired...   |   Fan of In the Aeroplane Over the Sea? Check out... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments