Shutter Madness
June 14, 2013 10:53 AM Subscribe
Garry Winogrand, best known for his street photography, left behind "three hundred thousand pictures (at a minimum), barely sorted, unorganized, with no indication of why or when they were taken" after his death in 1984. Jacob Mikanowski from The Awl. previously
Winogrand's late work was a failure. Not only that, it was a failure so grand and ambitious, so vast in its scope and comprehensive in its extent, that it immediately turned into a cautionary tale. What could better embody the seductive ease and terrible difficulty of photography than those three hundred thousand aimless, shambolic pictures?
The guy was a premonition of flicker.com
posted by sammyo at 11:22 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
The guy was a premonition of flicker.com
posted by sammyo at 11:22 AM on June 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I photograph to see what the world looks like in photographs."
posted by oulipian at 12:44 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by oulipian at 12:44 PM on June 14, 2013
This guy seems to think Winogrand was taking those pictures for his (Mikanowski's) benefit. It's not really a grand artistic failure if the artist decides never to look at the proofs (let alone release the images). Winogrand was taking pictures for its own sake, and while we can only wonder at his motivations, it's a little disingenuous to pretend those pictures are equivalent to a bad gallery show.
In other words, I'll put Garry Winogrand in one hand and The Awl in the other and see which fills up first.
posted by donblood at 12:51 PM on June 14, 2013
In other words, I'll put Garry Winogrand in one hand and The Awl in the other and see which fills up first.
posted by donblood at 12:51 PM on June 14, 2013
This guy seems to think Winogrand was taking those pictures for his (Mikanowski's) benefit. It's not really a grand artistic failure if the artist decides never to look at the proofs (let alone release the images). Winogrand was taking pictures for its own sake, and while we can only wonder at his motivations, it's a little disingenuous to pretend those pictures are equivalent to a bad gallery show.
In other words, I'll put Garry Winogrand in one hand and The Awl in the other and see which fills up first.
"I think that it's possible that those 300,000 photographs Winogrand left behind have been misunderstood. I think that they weren't a product of his talent dropping off, but instead they were part of an attempt to test the limits of street photography, to see whether he could make his work to be as mundane, random, and accidental as possible and still come out with something worth looking at. Taken this way, those last photographs are as potent and troubling as anything Winogrand ever did. They remind me of a Balzac story called "The Unknown Masterpiece." It's about three painters in 17th-century France. Two artists, a young upstart and an old pro, visit to the workshop of a master named Frenhofer. He's obsessed with the theoretical possibilities of painting, with its ability to imitate living flesh and the tension between color and line. He's been working on a single painting for years. They think it must be a masterpiece. Frenhofer assures them that it's the most perfect representation of a women ever made. But when they get there, all they see is a single, perfectly realized foot. Everything else is obscured by masses of cloud-like color. In his quest to find the essence of painting, Frenhofer dissolved all of its rules, losing himself in a freedom he could no longer master."
posted by TrolleyOffTheTracks at 1:13 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
In other words, I'll put Garry Winogrand in one hand and The Awl in the other and see which fills up first.
"I think that it's possible that those 300,000 photographs Winogrand left behind have been misunderstood. I think that they weren't a product of his talent dropping off, but instead they were part of an attempt to test the limits of street photography, to see whether he could make his work to be as mundane, random, and accidental as possible and still come out with something worth looking at. Taken this way, those last photographs are as potent and troubling as anything Winogrand ever did. They remind me of a Balzac story called "The Unknown Masterpiece." It's about three painters in 17th-century France. Two artists, a young upstart and an old pro, visit to the workshop of a master named Frenhofer. He's obsessed with the theoretical possibilities of painting, with its ability to imitate living flesh and the tension between color and line. He's been working on a single painting for years. They think it must be a masterpiece. Frenhofer assures them that it's the most perfect representation of a women ever made. But when they get there, all they see is a single, perfectly realized foot. Everything else is obscured by masses of cloud-like color. In his quest to find the essence of painting, Frenhofer dissolved all of its rules, losing himself in a freedom he could no longer master."
posted by TrolleyOffTheTracks at 1:13 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
This interview touches on quite a few of these themes—from photography and the banal to Winogrand's own feelings about his process both artistically and mechanically. I think it's particularly useful in showing that success and failure were not concepts that applied to his way of thinking about photography. Like most of his talks and interviews, there's no shortage of quotable aphorisms, but it also has a bit of Garry at his most dylanesque:
D: Then you don't have much faith in the longevity of the surge of interest, either economic or aesthetic, in photography. Do you see it as something typical of this moment?posted by Lorin at 1:38 PM on June 14, 2013
W: I don't know what you mean by aesthetic.
It isn't that 300,000 pictures show a person's talent dropping off.
It is an indication that there isn't a whole lot of "talent" involved in the first place, at least not in taking the pictures.
It is the same with news photographers. Look at the photographer whose shot was used for the iconic Obama poster. He didn't recognize his own image because, as he explained, he takes 1000's of pictures a day.
Taking 1000's and 1000's of images is a sure-fire way to end up with multiple works of art. Doesn't take any talent though. The talent may be in choosing the picture out of the 1000's. The real talent is in marketing the image.
posted by 2manyusernames at 1:55 PM on June 14, 2013
It is an indication that there isn't a whole lot of "talent" involved in the first place, at least not in taking the pictures.
It is the same with news photographers. Look at the photographer whose shot was used for the iconic Obama poster. He didn't recognize his own image because, as he explained, he takes 1000's of pictures a day.
Taking 1000's and 1000's of images is a sure-fire way to end up with multiple works of art. Doesn't take any talent though. The talent may be in choosing the picture out of the 1000's. The real talent is in marketing the image.
posted by 2manyusernames at 1:55 PM on June 14, 2013
Someone once likened Winogrand to a great white shark. Talent is not a word of meaning to such a monomaniacal entity. But, if you really believe that, check out his 1977 book on media, Public Relations. Volume alone is not enough to produce the kind of work he did.
posted by Lorin at 2:16 PM on June 14, 2013
posted by Lorin at 2:16 PM on June 14, 2013
Look at the photographer whose shot was used for the iconic Obama poster. He didn't recognize his own image because, as he explained, he takes 1000's of pictures a day.
...and also because, on those same days, many other photographers were standing in roughly the same places, shooting their own thousands of photos of the same subject (Obama). That's a somewhat unique example to try using to prove a broad point.
I don't want to step into the minefield of defining what is or isn't a "work of art," but I guarantee it takes talent to shoot thousands and thousands of photos and end up with any iconic shots. Try it. I have. I've shot thousands of photos, and I know other photographers who have shot thousands and thousands of photos, and none of us have anything iconic although we're all hopefully improving.
You're right that it takes talent to select and market the good shots. But those are separate talents, just like an author needs an editor and a publisher. The photographer's job is to develop his skill set to capture the shot, to place himself in the right circumstances to capture the shot, and then to do it. Ending up with thousands of discards doesn't necessarily indicate lack of talent. It can indicate experimentation or professionalism.
posted by cribcage at 2:40 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
...and also because, on those same days, many other photographers were standing in roughly the same places, shooting their own thousands of photos of the same subject (Obama). That's a somewhat unique example to try using to prove a broad point.
I don't want to step into the minefield of defining what is or isn't a "work of art," but I guarantee it takes talent to shoot thousands and thousands of photos and end up with any iconic shots. Try it. I have. I've shot thousands of photos, and I know other photographers who have shot thousands and thousands of photos, and none of us have anything iconic although we're all hopefully improving.
You're right that it takes talent to select and market the good shots. But those are separate talents, just like an author needs an editor and a publisher. The photographer's job is to develop his skill set to capture the shot, to place himself in the right circumstances to capture the shot, and then to do it. Ending up with thousands of discards doesn't necessarily indicate lack of talent. It can indicate experimentation or professionalism.
posted by cribcage at 2:40 PM on June 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Doesn't take any talent though.
You don't know what you're talking about.
As a street photographer, Garry Winogrand would have been nowhere without his inhuman dedication to discovering what humans look like through the machine gaze of his camera. The intensity of effort is an essential aspect of his photography, and perhaps street photography in general. To me, your comment is similar to the argument that if everybody trained as regularly and as hard as professional cyclists, never mind whether all of us are blessed with their discipline, we would have equal chance of winning the Tour de France.
posted by quosimosaur at 4:33 PM on June 14, 2013
You don't know what you're talking about.
As a street photographer, Garry Winogrand would have been nowhere without his inhuman dedication to discovering what humans look like through the machine gaze of his camera. The intensity of effort is an essential aspect of his photography, and perhaps street photography in general. To me, your comment is similar to the argument that if everybody trained as regularly and as hard as professional cyclists, never mind whether all of us are blessed with their discipline, we would have equal chance of winning the Tour de France.
posted by quosimosaur at 4:33 PM on June 14, 2013
It just dawned on me that this was THAT Garry Winogrand.
Absolutely iconic Marilyn.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:18 PM on June 14, 2013
Absolutely iconic Marilyn.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:18 PM on June 14, 2013
I'm sure great photos were/are in there but his life was kicking his ass by then and without the free space to sort them out, who can blame him for not editing them?
I kind of think, when he's described as a zen master, that that is closer to his relationship with photography than the quasi precious moment captured. He thought of it (I always thought) as a thing he went out and did and then later (a year or more) went through to find the photographs that told him more about photography. Not hoping he captured that thing he saw that one time.
That is, the taking of pictures was one thing the editing them something else entirely.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:32 PM on June 15, 2013
I kind of think, when he's described as a zen master, that that is closer to his relationship with photography than the quasi precious moment captured. He thought of it (I always thought) as a thing he went out and did and then later (a year or more) went through to find the photographs that told him more about photography. Not hoping he captured that thing he saw that one time.
That is, the taking of pictures was one thing the editing them something else entirely.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:32 PM on June 15, 2013
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