I Know What You Think of Me

June 18, 2013 5:16 PM

"I’ve also been written about, in ways I could find no fault with but that were nonetheless excruciating for me to read. It is simply not pleasant to be objectively observed — it’s like seeing a candid photo of yourself online, not smiling or posing, but simply looking the way you apparently always do, oblivious and mush-faced with your mouth open. It’s proof that we are visible to others, that we are seen, in all our naked silliness and stupidity." -Tim Kreider writes about finding out what people really say about you, and how it's all okay.
posted by smock smock smock (45 comments total)

I am really really curious why he needed a herd of goats.

I had no idea that one could rent a herd of goats.
posted by louche mustachio at 5:26 PM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]

Metafilter: The context is that I had rented a herd of goats for reasons that aren’t relevant here
posted by eugenen at 5:32 PM on June 18, 2013 [8 favorites]

But seriously, some friends of mine recently rented out some goats to tend to their sloped, weedy backyard. It's a thing.
posted by eugenen at 5:33 PM on June 18, 2013 [4 favorites]

I’ve often thought that the single most devastating cyberattack a diabolical and anarchic mind could design would not be on the military or financial sector but simply to simultaneously make every e-mail and text ever sent universally public... the fabric of society would instantly evaporate, every marriage, friendship and business partnership dissolved. Civilization ... is held together by a fragile web of tactful phrasing, polite omissions and white lies

I've heard this somewhere before:

"Let me ask you this: have you ever wondered what it is that holds the fabric of society together? No, it's not cooperation or trust, or any of that stuff *hippies* want you to believe -- it's lies."
posted by weston at 5:33 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

I’ve often thought that the single most devastating cyberattack a diabolical and anarchic mind could design would not be on the military or financial sector but simply to simultaneously make every e-mail and text ever sent universally public. It would be like suddenly subtracting the strong nuclear force from the universe; the fabric of society would instantly evaporate, every marriage, friendship and business partnership dissolved. Civilization, which is held together by a fragile web of tactful phrasing, polite omissions and white lies, would collapse in an apocalypse of bitter recriminations and weeping, breakups and fistfights, divorces and bankruptcies, scandals and resignations, blood feuds, litigation, wholesale slaughter in the streets and lingering ill will.

At least a dozen murders could be attributed to Diplomacy alone.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:33 PM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]

I didn't read it as passive-aggressive - more hardcore navel-gazing.
posted by letitrain at 5:45 PM on June 18, 2013 [2 favorites]

I already know what everybody thinks of me. It's my primary reason to go on living: revenge.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:46 PM on June 18, 2013 [12 favorites]

their sloped, weedy backyard

Best euphemism.
posted by Nomyte at 5:50 PM on June 18, 2013 [5 favorites]

hardcore navel-gazing
Narcissism would be an occupational hazard of writers, were it not their occupation.
posted by thelonius at 5:52 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

The email didn't even sound that bad and frankly after the sentence "and had sent out a mass e-mail with photographs of the goats attached to illustrate that a) I had goats, and b) it was good." I wanted to say something snarky about the author.

My sister once told me some pretty nasty things someone else I was/am quite close to had allegedly said about me behind my back. I really regret not cutting her off halfway because it damaged that relationship for years, not in a dramatic way but in a really insidious way as well as damaging the relationship between me and my sister a little. On a good day I was sure she told me to be nice and on a bad day I was sure she'd done it to spite me. I learned then that what other people say about you behind your back is better left there.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 5:52 PM on June 18, 2013 [4 favorites]

Hearing other people’s uncensored opinions of you is an unpleasant reminder that you’re just another person in the world, and everyone else does not always view you in the forgiving light that you hope they do, making all allowances, always on your side.

yes, this is frightening. even though i put myself out constantly, and harmless insulting is common among friends, i get really freaked out/nervous when people straight up say things like "CiS, you're an autistic weirdo". i know it, but i hate other people saying it

that said, his author picture makes the author look super-smug
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:52 PM on June 18, 2013

We all make fun of one another behind one another’s backs, even the people we love. Of course we do — they’re ridiculous. Anyone worth knowing is inevitably also going to be exasperating

Ain't that the truth!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:53 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

goats on the go
posted by cjorgensen at 5:55 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

Well, metafilter sure doesn't have that problem.



Oof.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:59 PM on June 18, 2013 [4 favorites]

It is my cruel fate in life to always run into Mr. Kredier but only when I am at my sweatiest, most incoherent most totally inconvenient time to meet him.
posted by The Whelk at 6:01 PM on June 18, 2013

That beng said, I am trying really, really hard to cut down on the level of gossip and behind the back talk I engage in because apparently I am very good at it and I don't want to be. ( puts on day dress and Betty Draper fright wig " Nice girls don't engage in idle chit chat!" )
posted by The Whelk at 6:05 PM on June 18, 2013

Also, don't we normally, as a set of regular users, love-love-love Tim Kreider? For his comic strip and his thoughtful essays and his appearances and talks? For his honesty and clarity of expression? Why are we suddenly calling him out for this harmless essay? The personal example may have sparked the idea, but to call the piece as a whole passive-aggressive or navel-gazing or smug is really uncharitable.
posted by Nomyte at 6:06 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

Why are we suddenly calling him out for this harmless essay?

Because it was posted as an FPP, and therefore must be torn apart with vigor.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:11 PM on June 18, 2013 [8 favorites]

"We" who? I wasn't aware there was homework. Are we supposed to have an opinion of Tim Kreider? Damnit, I never get the assignments!

*I don't hate this, I just think it's kind of... obvious?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:14 PM on June 18, 2013

Why are we suddenly calling him out for this harmless essay?

Because it was posted as an FPP, and therefore must be torn apart with vigor.

Vigor? You call this vigor?

All I hear is mumblemumble whisperwhisper.

Common people, let's see some vigor over here!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:27 PM on June 18, 2013

*casts murder of crows*
posted by The Whelk at 6:29 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

....If "oof" is all it takes for someone to say about Mr. Kreider to send him into the vapors, the things I could say would probably send him into a severe funk.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:40 PM on June 18, 2013

Years ago a friend of mine had a dream about a strange invention; a staircase you could descend deep underground, in which you heard recordings of all the things anyone had ever said about you, both good and bad. The catch was, you had to pass through all the worst things people had said before you could get to the highest compliments at the very bottom.

I would feel more comfortable hearing the worse things about me, over hearing all the great things about me. So, I stop on the step when I hear "I'd do him, but I wouldn't marry him". That seems as neutral as I could imagine.
posted by QueerAngel28 at 6:43 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

Yeah, it all seems very ordinary to me. Kreider is merely saying what everyone thinks at least several times a day. Of course he's getting paid to say it in the NYT which is a pretty good gig and one that I'd certainly like to have. And I could have it, too, if you fuckers didn't keep spreading lies about me.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:48 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's my primary reason to go on living: revenge.

Sure is.

Death by a thousand cuts. I'm going on a tangent, so everyone else, carry on.

I wonder what makes people think it's OK to keep publicly mocking someone, sometimes with that person's awareness, after the information becomes public. It's why I've spent my life as a hardcore loner. I'm not interested in gossip, bullying, anyone else's image or social status, or the social hierarchy in general. I never was. Because I tend to be solitary, I spent most of my life living blissfully free from other people's cattiness. When I'm in the spotlight against my will, I'm only ever resentful and abrasive.

So basically I agree with the author's thoughts on how society would be torn apart if everything about everyone were made public.
posted by quiet earth at 6:50 PM on June 18, 2013

We all make fun of one another behind one another’s backs, even the people we love.

Not really, no. Certainly not as an adult.
posted by MillMan at 7:02 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

We all make fun of one another behind one another’s backs, even the people we love.

I think we do. I also think that its part of some cultures - at least Australian culture - to make fun of your friends to their faces, but stop short of causing any real harm.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:11 PM on June 18, 2013

Also, don't we normally, as a set of regular users, love-love-love Tim Kreider?

Sure, but even Terry Pratchett has off days.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:19 PM on June 18, 2013

To call the piece as a whole passive-aggressive or navel-gazing or smug is really uncharitable.

I wasn't intending to be uncharitable. Like thelonious, I think an inward and sensitive view is what separates the most creative people. Besides, it's produced masterpieces like this.
posted by letitrain at 7:24 PM on June 18, 2013

I think what really terrifies me is discovering that what other people find ridiculous about me is different than what I think is ridiculous about me. I try to be fairly self-aware, and try to understand my blind spots when I find them (for starters, there a lot of things I do because That Is How Things Are Done, and get thrown for a loop when someone points out that there's no reason to behave that specific way).

Finding out about my unknown unknowns would probably crush me.
posted by thecaddy at 7:49 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

Anyone worth knowing is inevitably also going to be exasperating

I deleted a passive-aggressive-self-pitying statement (mine, yes) on Facebook yesterday, which said something like, "Don't get close to people because they will inevitably find you annoying."

So that sentence helps, particularly because ThePinkSuperhero agrees with it.

Fuck, I am now caught up in a turbulent it does and doesn't matter what other people think spin. Must be time for Merlot. And ADHD and anxiety meds. And maybe a nice nap. And some online dating.
posted by b33j at 7:52 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

if anything eases anxiety it is online dating
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:58 PM on June 18, 2013 [3 favorites]

Well, it's more that on certain sites, you can get instant approval from your dating pool. You need to have a very hot shower using bleach later, but it's approval.
posted by b33j at 8:07 PM on June 18, 2013

fair 'nough. that said, merlot would be great right around now and I keep forgetting to buy some on my way home.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:18 PM on June 18, 2013

I'm not drinking any fucking merlot!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:21 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

(I don't have any.)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:27 PM on June 18, 2013

Anyone worth knowing is inevitably also going to be exasperating

if u can't take me at my worst u don't deserve me at my best
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 9:02 PM on June 18, 2013

It is my cruel fate in life to always run into Mr. Kredier but only when I am at my sweatiest, most incoherent most totally inconvenient time to meet him.

Well, it was probably always John Edwards anyway.
posted by Anything at 9:20 PM on June 18, 2013

That accompanying illustration by Christelle Enault alone was worth the price of admission.
posted by noway at 9:24 PM on June 18, 2013 [1 favorite]

Great article by Tim as usual. I used to love reading his comics in the city paper and his morphing into a NYT columnist is beyond well-deserved. I wish I was one of his IRL mates, I'd definitely never talk about him behind his back more than I do anyone else which is often.

If you didn't read to the end of this essay, you probably should.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:11 AM on June 19, 2013

There's only 2 kinds of people, those who make fun of someone behind their back and then add "But of course I love the old dunderhead" and those that pretend they only make fun of people they don't like. I prefer the former, but then I doubt there is anything any of my friends feel they can't make fun of me about to my face. Except my gelato addiction. Thems fighting words.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:14 AM on June 19, 2013

I once had a friend who was orthodox jewish and a philosopher. He'd explain fascinating things to me. Once he said that according to his religion gossiping was a really bad thing, in fact, it caused leprosy.

I thought he meant actual leprosy and spent the next week until I could speak to him again extremely worried about how far mine had progressed.
posted by Omnomnom at 6:22 AM on June 19, 2013

There’s something existentially alarming about finding out how little room we occupy, and how little allegiance we command, in other people’s heads.

This sort of feeling of entitlement to space (mental or physical) has to do with being in a position of (relative) privilege in some (social) hierarchy and is not a universal human experience.

This, on the other hand,

We don’t give other people credit for the same interior complexity we take for granted in ourselves,

I think is far more often true, and an important thing to keep in mind.
posted by eviemath at 6:29 AM on June 19, 2013

We are subjectively observed so we perform. Don't look for meaning. Look for use.
posted by xjudson at 7:30 AM on June 19, 2013

This kind of thing is why I am happy to leave my head in the sand about many things, such as googling myself on the Internet. You can't have the good without the horrendously bad and/or death threats and nasty sexual comments on that one.

You know those celebrity name filter sites that come out periodically, like when Charlie Sheen was acting up all over the place and you could block yourself from having to read about him? I really like the idea of getting one of those for myself if I ever became well known/could be told apart from the many other versions of me online. You're better off not knowing, folks.

Of course, none of that would fix the oopsie e-mail here. I wonder what he said back to it? Besides this article that I kind of zoned out on after the goats, I mean.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:16 PM on June 19, 2013