Faces of the American Revolution
October 12, 2013 3:47 AM Subscribe
It would be good to be known as 'the last of our cocked hats,' somewhat less good to be known for genocide. Also, I wonder if Daniel Spencer's problems with his pension had to do with his account of his officer's death....
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:23 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:23 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Damn, fight or flight, you beat me to it. Clicking a link to the Daily Mail is a little dirty-feeling.
I think the Time link is where these photographs originally got put online, so that's the one that ought to be an FPP.
posted by Sleeper at 5:34 AM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think the Time link is where these photographs originally got put online, so that's the one that ought to be an FPP.
posted by Sleeper at 5:34 AM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
I wonder what it must have been like to have fought in the Revolutionary War, only to see the Union almost destroyed by the Civil War.
I'm currently listening to 1861: A Civil War Awakening on audiobook and I just finished the passage on Ralph Farnham, which explores this very issue. Farnham was 104 when he died and was hailed as the "last hero of Bunker Hill," and Goodheart goes into a considerable amount of detail on much life had changed for Americans in the period between the Revolution and the Civil War. It's fascinating.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 5:38 AM on October 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm currently listening to 1861: A Civil War Awakening on audiobook and I just finished the passage on Ralph Farnham, which explores this very issue. Farnham was 104 when he died and was hailed as the "last hero of Bunker Hill," and Goodheart goes into a considerable amount of detail on much life had changed for Americans in the period between the Revolution and the Civil War. It's fascinating.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 5:38 AM on October 12, 2013 [5 favorites]
Tragically, all of these men were photographed mere years before "say cheese" was invented.
posted by nathancaswell at 6:05 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by nathancaswell at 6:05 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wasn't the "smile in portraiture", or lack thereof, discussed on the Blue a couple of weeks ago?
Ah, yes, here it is.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:17 AM on October 12, 2013
Ah, yes, here it is.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:17 AM on October 12, 2013
I don't see Ichabod Crane's picture amongst them. Clearly he is a liar.
posted by Kitteh at 6:20 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 6:20 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
God I love how it is all staid and serious old men and then Hello Pirate!
and then yes, then I read the caption and less amusing, more genocide
posted by arha at 6:57 AM on October 12, 2013
and then yes, then I read the caption and less amusing, more genocide
posted by arha at 6:57 AM on October 12, 2013
I wonder what it must have been like to have fought in the Revolutionary War, only to see the Union almost destroyed by the Civil War.
The right and proper British Government was tossed out.
Then after 14 men had served as the President of the Continental Congress that was tossed out and yet another government was formed.
Having lived through 2 Government changes and almost dead would you be all that worried about another change?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:02 AM on October 12, 2013
The right and proper British Government was tossed out.
Then after 14 men had served as the President of the Continental Congress that was tossed out and yet another government was formed.
Having lived through 2 Government changes and almost dead would you be all that worried about another change?
posted by rough ashlar at 7:02 AM on October 12, 2013
A nice reminder that just because the average life expectancy back then was lower doesn't mean that some people didn't live for a very long time.
Just last night I say saying to some friends that John Tyler (the 10th president of the USA, who took office in 1841) still has two grandsons alive. I forebore to mention that he is also the only president whose death received no observance by the federal government, as it was during the Civil War, and he had been elected to the Confederate legislature... blameless Canadians that they are, their appetite for American presidential trivia is finite.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:47 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just last night I say saying to some friends that John Tyler (the 10th president of the USA, who took office in 1841) still has two grandsons alive. I forebore to mention that he is also the only president whose death received no observance by the federal government, as it was during the Civil War, and he had been elected to the Confederate legislature... blameless Canadians that they are, their appetite for American presidential trivia is finite.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:47 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be good to be known as 'the last of our cocked hats,' somewhat less good to be known for genocide.
Well, this was hardly the sole province of Revolutionary war fighters. Later generations had as much or more guilt in such matters.
Spencer’s account of the death of the officer differed markedly from that of Gen. Washington's; Spencer said the wounds of the officer had nearly healed when he caught a disease from a prostitute and this illness killed him, whereas Washington said he died of his wounds.
Heh. This makes me want to track down some memoir from the time, if any exist (from ordinary soldiers, I mean). One of the more interesting parts of taking coursework in the Civil War in college was reading the accounts of individual soldiers. A very different take than "officlal" (or officer-written) history.
posted by AdamCSnider at 8:03 AM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well, this was hardly the sole province of Revolutionary war fighters. Later generations had as much or more guilt in such matters.
Spencer’s account of the death of the officer differed markedly from that of Gen. Washington's; Spencer said the wounds of the officer had nearly healed when he caught a disease from a prostitute and this illness killed him, whereas Washington said he died of his wounds.
Heh. This makes me want to track down some memoir from the time, if any exist (from ordinary soldiers, I mean). One of the more interesting parts of taking coursework in the Civil War in college was reading the accounts of individual soldiers. A very different take than "officlal" (or officer-written) history.
posted by AdamCSnider at 8:03 AM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
AdamCSnider, look up the book written by Joseph Plumb Martin. It's been published under umpteen different titles over the years. Well written, easy to read, and quite humorous, especially if you appreciate sarcasm.
posted by lharmon at 10:03 AM on October 12, 2013
posted by lharmon at 10:03 AM on October 12, 2013
Also worth tracking down is An Original and Authentic Journal of Occurrences during the late American War by Sergeant R. Lamb of the Welch Fusiliers, the basis for Robert Graves' Sergeant Lamb books.
The genocidal event was Sullivan's Campaign, a reaction to the Iroquois Six Nation Confederacy siding with the British. (Their original impulse was to let the white folk to themselves, but Thayendanega talked them out of it - understandable, but possibly not the best move; other tribes allied with the revolutionaries.) Basically it was a scorched earth campaign, along the lines of Philip Sheridan in the Shenandoah Valley and Sherman's march through Georgia. Americans are heavy handed at war.
posted by IndigoJones at 10:39 AM on October 12, 2013
The genocidal event was Sullivan's Campaign, a reaction to the Iroquois Six Nation Confederacy siding with the British. (Their original impulse was to let the white folk to themselves, but Thayendanega talked them out of it - understandable, but possibly not the best move; other tribes allied with the revolutionaries.) Basically it was a scorched earth campaign, along the lines of Philip Sheridan in the Shenandoah Valley and Sherman's march through Georgia. Americans are heavy handed at war.
posted by IndigoJones at 10:39 AM on October 12, 2013
To look into the eyes of men who actually deliberately participated in genocide is chilling - not all of these guys but some of them. For all their exploits as 'dignified heroes of the revolution" I can't help but see the dark core to their moral centre. Absolutely chilling.
posted by salishsea at 11:25 AM on October 12, 2013
posted by salishsea at 11:25 AM on October 12, 2013
Tragically, all of these men were photographed mere years before "say cheese" was invented.
I'm not sure these men even knew what an honest smile was. They all look extremely grim and dour. I'm sure their lives were hard, but none of them look like people I'd want to spend time with.
Makes me wonder what the women looked like. While some of them were revolutionist soldiers, I doubt any of them took part in the Indian genocide.
A short google search found the above. In addition there was:
Phoebe Vincent, who fought in the Battle of Fort Freeland (July 28, 1779), was a recognized Revolutionary War soldier, but she died in 1809, 3 decades before the camera was made available. The day before the battle, she gave birth, but despite that, she proved herself valuable by melting spoons into ammunition. The battle was lost....
I'm sure many of them died prior to the daguerreotype being invented. Most likely they weren't considered important enough to photograph. Maybe someone else here has mega google-fu and can turn something up.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:51 PM on October 12, 2013
I'm not sure these men even knew what an honest smile was. They all look extremely grim and dour. I'm sure their lives were hard, but none of them look like people I'd want to spend time with.
Makes me wonder what the women looked like. While some of them were revolutionist soldiers, I doubt any of them took part in the Indian genocide.
A short google search found the above. In addition there was:
Phoebe Vincent, who fought in the Battle of Fort Freeland (July 28, 1779), was a recognized Revolutionary War soldier, but she died in 1809, 3 decades before the camera was made available. The day before the battle, she gave birth, but despite that, she proved herself valuable by melting spoons into ammunition. The battle was lost....
I'm sure many of them died prior to the daguerreotype being invented. Most likely they weren't considered important enough to photograph. Maybe someone else here has mega google-fu and can turn something up.
posted by BlueHorse at 3:51 PM on October 12, 2013
rough ashlar: "Having lived through 2 Government changes and almost dead would you be all that worried about another change?"
John Quincy Adams was worried enough about it that he had a cerebral hemorrhage on the floor of the House of Representatives in 1848. I don't know. I think a lot of them worried about it ... people don't stop paying attention just because they're old, or hoping for a better future for their children.
ricochet biscuit: " he is also the only president whose death received no observance by the federal government, as it was during the Civil War, and he had been elected to the Confederate legislature"
awwwwwkward!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:18 PM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
John Quincy Adams was worried enough about it that he had a cerebral hemorrhage on the floor of the House of Representatives in 1848. I don't know. I think a lot of them worried about it ... people don't stop paying attention just because they're old, or hoping for a better future for their children.
ricochet biscuit: " he is also the only president whose death received no observance by the federal government, as it was during the Civil War, and he had been elected to the Confederate legislature"
awwwwwkward!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:18 PM on October 12, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is really cool. So we have still images of veterans of the Revolutionary War, and motion picture images of Civil War veterans marching in a parade. Extraordinary!
Classes in American History would have been much more enjoyable if these had both been included.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:45 PM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Classes in American History would have been much more enjoyable if these had both been included.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:45 PM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]
Surely the expressions are partly to do with the difficulty of maintaining a smile for however long it took for the exposure?
posted by jokeefe at 10:01 PM on October 12, 2013
posted by jokeefe at 10:01 PM on October 12, 2013
I don't think the Battle of Newtown should be classed as an act of genocide, and I wouldn't of necessity label anyone involved genocidal. It was in response to what happened at Cherry Valley; that doesn't excuse it, but it contextualizes the situation a bit better. The Six Nations were not a vastly outnumbered and inferior fighting force that we slaughtered by the thousands; they were one of the most important and powerful political, social, economic, and military forces in the country at the time, and they had seriously entered the war on the side of the British, demonstrating clearly their ability to hold their own.
The tragedy of the Six Nations was not that they were victims of genocide; it was that at precisely that moment they saw their fortunes turn and could see their future crushed. Their leaders, wiser and more perspicacious than the "Americans," had wanted to stay out of the conflict but saw that an "American" victory would be disastrous for their people, for their livelihood, for their well-being. They were proved right in a short time; and while most "Americans" at the time apparently harbored a faint distaste for actual genocide that the Spanish had enjoyed so much, they were as good as we are today at killing slowly by marginalizing, by slow quasi-legal theft, by gradual encroachment and by grinding down.
I say all this because genocide is an important phenomenon, perhaps the important phenomenon in American history. It's necessary to trace it to its beginning. If we had stopped this in 1803, it might not have been genocide. It might have been a series of struggles that led to an understanding; it might have been a path to resolution. By 1864 - probably decades before that, but certainly by then - there were at least several thousand "Americans" who had lost that distaste and descended into genocide proper. This is our hideous legacy; that, at the moment when we could have turned and stopped this, we chose to grind our heels into the ground and stand firm in our monstrosity. And that there were at least a thousand moments just like that - we didn't use a single solitary one for good.
posted by koeselitz at 1:39 AM on October 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
The tragedy of the Six Nations was not that they were victims of genocide; it was that at precisely that moment they saw their fortunes turn and could see their future crushed. Their leaders, wiser and more perspicacious than the "Americans," had wanted to stay out of the conflict but saw that an "American" victory would be disastrous for their people, for their livelihood, for their well-being. They were proved right in a short time; and while most "Americans" at the time apparently harbored a faint distaste for actual genocide that the Spanish had enjoyed so much, they were as good as we are today at killing slowly by marginalizing, by slow quasi-legal theft, by gradual encroachment and by grinding down.
I say all this because genocide is an important phenomenon, perhaps the important phenomenon in American history. It's necessary to trace it to its beginning. If we had stopped this in 1803, it might not have been genocide. It might have been a series of struggles that led to an understanding; it might have been a path to resolution. By 1864 - probably decades before that, but certainly by then - there were at least several thousand "Americans" who had lost that distaste and descended into genocide proper. This is our hideous legacy; that, at the moment when we could have turned and stopped this, we chose to grind our heels into the ground and stand firm in our monstrosity. And that there were at least a thousand moments just like that - we didn't use a single solitary one for good.
posted by koeselitz at 1:39 AM on October 13, 2013 [4 favorites]
To look into the eyes of men who actually deliberately participated in genocide is chilling - not all of these guys but some of them.
Oh, for Christ's sake. ONE of them falls into that category.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:22 AM on October 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh, for Christ's sake. ONE of them falls into that category.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:22 AM on October 13, 2013 [2 favorites]
The one with his old-fashioned hat reminds me of the Oliver Wendell Holmes poem The Last Leaf, about an old man of this era in Holmes's town.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:40 AM on October 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:40 AM on October 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
I say all this because genocide is an important phenomenon, perhaps the important phenomenon in American history.
Well, that and slavery. It's like this terrible struggle between the ideals of freedom and the facts of depriving others of it.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:14 AM on October 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, that and slavery. It's like this terrible struggle between the ideals of freedom and the facts of depriving others of it.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:14 AM on October 13, 2013 [1 favorite]
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I wonder what it must have been like to have fought in the Revolutionary War, only to see the Union almost destroyed by the Civil War.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:21 AM on October 12, 2013 [1 favorite]