How politics has made us stupid
April 7, 2014 5:08 AM Subscribe
Ezra Klein's Vox.com launched yesterday, featuring such articles as What happens to low-income students on the way to college? and Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained
Vox, previously and Ezra Klein, previously
Vox, previously and Ezra Klein, previously
Matt Yglesias really doesn't like the Amtrak process, and I can't say I blame him. He's written about this topic a couple times before.
posted by jason6 at 5:21 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by jason6 at 5:21 AM on April 7, 2014
Yes, they are. It's not unique to Amtrak either, as similar measures are e.g. used for Eurostar trains into the UK (marginally more justified because you cross a national border, but not needed to e.g cross into Belgium from the Netherlands by train, or even going to France.)
posted by MartinWisse at 5:21 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by MartinWisse at 5:21 AM on April 7, 2014
I'm really digging the card system Vox is using for its explainers, e.g., on modern board games. Very elegant and intuitive.
posted by Cash4Lead at 5:37 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Cash4Lead at 5:37 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Didn't vox.com used to be a blogging platform or something?
posted by pompomtom at 5:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by pompomtom at 5:38 AM on April 7, 2014 [8 favorites]
I find the Amtrak article off-putting for some reason I can't put my finger on. Is complaining about Amtrak going to make me think your new website is cool?
Also, I pretty much assume that the author has only been on Amtrak on the east coast. On long haul trains, the line before boarding is used to match people to cars with space.
posted by hoyland at 5:41 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Also, I pretty much assume that the author has only been on Amtrak on the east coast. On long haul trains, the line before boarding is used to match people to cars with space.
posted by hoyland at 5:41 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
The Penn Station trick won't work on Amtrak in Portland or Seattle at least, because you don't get your seat assignment until you stand in that queue, so skirting the ticket inspector won't get you on the train. If there's an early check-in seat assignment feature like most airlines have, I don't know about it.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:43 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:43 AM on April 7, 2014
Didn't vox.com used to be a blogging platform or something?
Yep
posted by slater at 5:43 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Yep
posted by slater at 5:43 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Also, I pretty much assume that the author has only been on Amtrak on the east coast. On long haul trains, the line before boarding is used to match people to cars with space.
That's not just the west coast—the Amtraks I've taken in NC also did that. Plus, they do destination sorting, so everyone in a car gets off at roughly the same time. It's not really slow, and it makes the disembarking stage better!
posted by Maecenas at 5:57 AM on April 7, 2014
That's not just the west coast—the Amtraks I've taken in NC also did that. Plus, they do destination sorting, so everyone in a car gets off at roughly the same time. It's not really slow, and it makes the disembarking stage better!
posted by Maecenas at 5:57 AM on April 7, 2014
The Penn Station trick won't work on Amtrak in Portland or Seattle at least, because you don't get your seat assignment until you stand in that queue
On long haul trains, the line before boarding is used to match people to cars with space.
Wow, really? I'm so jealous. It's just a massive free-for-all here and it's kind of a huge PTIA. Particularly if you're dragging a small child with you. Running around like a chicken without a head, dodging nasty looks from people who are desperately worried you're going to stay in the quiet car (I'm just passing through!!! leave me alone!!!)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:59 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
On long haul trains, the line before boarding is used to match people to cars with space.
Wow, really? I'm so jealous. It's just a massive free-for-all here and it's kind of a huge PTIA. Particularly if you're dragging a small child with you. Running around like a chicken without a head, dodging nasty looks from people who are desperately worried you're going to stay in the quiet car (I'm just passing through!!! leave me alone!!!)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:59 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
Honestly, articles that 'explain' things like Amtrak's boarding rules by 'breaking them down' into umpteen steps each accompanied by stock photography..... go a long way towards contributing to mass stupidity, when they boil down to 'because Security'. I'm disappointed. I was hoping for more than ... buzzfeed.
Giving up the shortcuts was nice, though.
posted by Dashy at 6:01 AM on April 7, 2014 [13 favorites]
Giving up the shortcuts was nice, though.
posted by Dashy at 6:01 AM on April 7, 2014 [13 favorites]
'because Security'.
That's the reason for a lot of not-good things these days, frustratingly.
I'm interested though that Amtrak is doing at least some destination sorting and seat assignments now; that was definitely not the case in the good old days, when they mostly sorted people by their ability to handle crazy long delays. (I remember as a kid being stuck with my parents in some out of the way station for seven hours, with Amtrak promising the train would arrive momentarily the entire time.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:05 AM on April 7, 2014
That's the reason for a lot of not-good things these days, frustratingly.
I'm interested though that Amtrak is doing at least some destination sorting and seat assignments now; that was definitely not the case in the good old days, when they mostly sorted people by their ability to handle crazy long delays. (I remember as a kid being stuck with my parents in some out of the way station for seven hours, with Amtrak promising the train would arrive momentarily the entire time.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:05 AM on April 7, 2014
I really, really miss Ezra Klein's blog from a few years ago, when it was just him himself writing about a few things every day he thought were important.
posted by gerstle at 6:06 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by gerstle at 6:06 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
So, how 'bout that article about a leaky pipeline to attainment of college degrees for high-achieving kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. That link from the FPP that might actually have some important local, state, and national policy implications in the US?
posted by eviemath at 6:14 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 6:14 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Part of the problem at NY Penn is that the platforms are extremely narrow and cramped, and if you let everyone go down to wait on the platform, you'd have serious crowding issues with everyone getting off the train at the same time. Also, the "waiting in the LIRR waiting room trick won't work for some tracks. Ask me how I know.
At Washington, for tracks 24-27, you can also use Gate F.
posted by thecaddy at 6:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
At Washington, for tracks 24-27, you can also use Gate F.
posted by thecaddy at 6:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
I take the Acela/northeastern Amtrak between Union station and Penn periodically and I've never seen any undue delays or inconvenience due to the boarding process thus far. The fact that this article exists implies that the boarding process at major stations is really painful or difficult, and that's not been my experience. I agree that airline security is a huge pain though.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 6:16 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by CaffinatedOne at 6:16 AM on April 7, 2014
So, how 'bout that article about a leaky pipeline to attainment of college degrees for high-achieving kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. That link from the FPP that might actually have some important local, state, and national policy implications in the US?
That article's not as bad, but it's still bad. It's as if the website's style is based on powerpoint. On the other hand, if you had absolutely no clue about inequality in the education system, it'd at least walk you through it. But otherwise it's a bit content-free (unless I missed something while the page was jumping about as the stock photography loaded late).
posted by hoyland at 6:22 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
That article's not as bad, but it's still bad. It's as if the website's style is based on powerpoint. On the other hand, if you had absolutely no clue about inequality in the education system, it'd at least walk you through it. But otherwise it's a bit content-free (unless I missed something while the page was jumping about as the stock photography loaded late).
posted by hoyland at 6:22 AM on April 7, 2014 [2 favorites]
I find it interesting that in 2013-2014 several esteemed professional journalists are starting their own professional blogs. Thought leaders!
posted by srboisvert at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by srboisvert at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
So, how 'bout that article about a leaky pipeline to attainment of college degrees for high-achieving kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. That link from the FPP that might actually have some important local, state, and national policy implications in the US?
I just read it; it's not wrong, but it's a huge oversimplification. It's true that fewer low-income students to go selective colleges, and the reasons they list are accurate (especially the fact that low-income students often have no idea how to navigate the college application process and do things like apply only to Harvard and one non-selective local school). That said, college is often viewed as the finish line for low-income students, and that's really not accurate; as many of us know, a college degree is no guarantor of a job and encouraging low-income students to take on debt isn't super cool. I've noticed almost a fetishization of college attendance among low-income schools in my area, especially charter schools, where you get three-year-olds wearing t-shirts that say stuff like "college bound". I mean, great, I hope you do go to college, but I worry that we're going to have a generation of smart, hard-working low-income and minority kids who feel hugely betrayed when they get to college and either they're not prepared because their schools haven't actually given them the background they need (I wrote a long comment about this recently) or because it tuns out going to college doesn't actually fix everything. I mean, also, the specific issues like fewer AP classes are fair points but these are also largely factors in high school at which point it's statistically too late for many, many students.
Basically, yes, a lot of the things mentioned in the article are accurate, and they're big problems, and we should fix them, but the focus on college as the ultimate positive outcome for low-income students ignores any number of important issues including their preparedness for college, debt, the effect on future prospects and culture shock. It also ignores many other metrics like drop out rate and reading/math proficiency, both of which give you a lot more information about a greater number of students than "college attendance". I agree college is important and all students should have the option of attending, but I object to the fixation on college attendance as a panacea for low-income students.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
I just read it; it's not wrong, but it's a huge oversimplification. It's true that fewer low-income students to go selective colleges, and the reasons they list are accurate (especially the fact that low-income students often have no idea how to navigate the college application process and do things like apply only to Harvard and one non-selective local school). That said, college is often viewed as the finish line for low-income students, and that's really not accurate; as many of us know, a college degree is no guarantor of a job and encouraging low-income students to take on debt isn't super cool. I've noticed almost a fetishization of college attendance among low-income schools in my area, especially charter schools, where you get three-year-olds wearing t-shirts that say stuff like "college bound". I mean, great, I hope you do go to college, but I worry that we're going to have a generation of smart, hard-working low-income and minority kids who feel hugely betrayed when they get to college and either they're not prepared because their schools haven't actually given them the background they need (I wrote a long comment about this recently) or because it tuns out going to college doesn't actually fix everything. I mean, also, the specific issues like fewer AP classes are fair points but these are also largely factors in high school at which point it's statistically too late for many, many students.
Basically, yes, a lot of the things mentioned in the article are accurate, and they're big problems, and we should fix them, but the focus on college as the ultimate positive outcome for low-income students ignores any number of important issues including their preparedness for college, debt, the effect on future prospects and culture shock. It also ignores many other metrics like drop out rate and reading/math proficiency, both of which give you a lot more information about a greater number of students than "college attendance". I agree college is important and all students should have the option of attending, but I object to the fixation on college attendance as a panacea for low-income students.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:28 AM on April 7, 2014 [9 favorites]
Or, okay, cool, what hoyland said with significantly fewer words.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:30 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:30 AM on April 7, 2014
CaffinatedOne: "I take the Acela/northeastern Amtrak between Union station and Penn periodically and I've never seen any undue delays or inconvenience due to the boarding process thus far. The fact that this article exists implies that the boarding process at major stations is really painful or difficult, and that's not been my experience. I agree that airline security is a huge pain though."
Out of curiosity, have you taken it during peak holiday time? Say, on a Friday night prior to Christmas break. It's a zoo.
During off-peak hours it's much easier to navigate.
posted by zarq at 6:33 AM on April 7, 2014
Out of curiosity, have you taken it during peak holiday time? Say, on a Friday night prior to Christmas break. It's a zoo.
During off-peak hours it's much easier to navigate.
posted by zarq at 6:33 AM on April 7, 2014
I see they haven't yet gotten all the kinks out. Tried to sign up using my Facebook login and got an error message:
"Error
App Not Setup: The developers of this app have not set up this app properly for Facebook Login."
Oops.
posted by zarq at 6:41 AM on April 7, 2014
"Error
App Not Setup: The developers of this app have not set up this app properly for Facebook Login."
Oops.
posted by zarq at 6:41 AM on April 7, 2014
During off-peak hours it's much easier to navigate.
Everything is easier to navigate when it's not Thanksgiving or Christmas week.
And re the Obamacare cards - they put in a joke haha! What's an individual man date?
posted by rtha at 6:43 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Everything is easier to navigate when it's not Thanksgiving or Christmas week.
And re the Obamacare cards - they put in a joke haha! What's an individual man date?
posted by rtha at 6:43 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
CaffinatedOne: "I take the Acela/northeastern Amtrak between Union station and Penn periodically and I've never seen any undue delays or inconvenience due to the boarding process thus far. The fact that this article exists implies that the boarding process at major stations is really painful or difficult, and that's not been my experience. I agree that airline security is a huge pain though."
Union Station sucks because you can only enter the platform from the very end. Also, the Acela and other business-y trains during busy hours tend to board more promptly.
The process becomes a pain in a few instances:
1) The train arrives late, and they need to jam everyone onto the train in a short amount of time.
2) The train isn't late, but they do this anyway, and create a HUGE queue in the waiting area. (It's a surprisingly orderly queue, although Amtrak could probably take some tips from Southwest Airlines here...)
3) The train isn't parked at the near-end of the platform. The platforms at Union Station are almost 3 city blocks long, which translates to a lot of walking.
4) The train is arriving/departing on one of the "through" tracks (17 or 18, IIRC). If a train is just passing through the station, this slow boarding process unnecessarily increases dwell times.
I get why they want to keep people off of the tracks, and also why they want to fill up the train sequentially (if they can entirely close a car or two, the conductor's job gets much easier). However, the current security procedures sure do suck, and aggravate customers for no good or logical reason.
posted by schmod at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2014
Union Station sucks because you can only enter the platform from the very end. Also, the Acela and other business-y trains during busy hours tend to board more promptly.
The process becomes a pain in a few instances:
1) The train arrives late, and they need to jam everyone onto the train in a short amount of time.
2) The train isn't late, but they do this anyway, and create a HUGE queue in the waiting area. (It's a surprisingly orderly queue, although Amtrak could probably take some tips from Southwest Airlines here...)
3) The train isn't parked at the near-end of the platform. The platforms at Union Station are almost 3 city blocks long, which translates to a lot of walking.
4) The train is arriving/departing on one of the "through" tracks (17 or 18, IIRC). If a train is just passing through the station, this slow boarding process unnecessarily increases dwell times.
I get why they want to keep people off of the tracks, and also why they want to fill up the train sequentially (if they can entirely close a car or two, the conductor's job gets much easier). However, the current security procedures sure do suck, and aggravate customers for no good or logical reason.
posted by schmod at 6:44 AM on April 7, 2014
I could swear I remember standing in line to go down to the tracks in Philly long before 9/11.
posted by interplanetjanet at 6:45 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by interplanetjanet at 6:45 AM on April 7, 2014
If you follow the Ezra Klein previously link, there'sa quote from The New Republic about Klein:
With its emphasis on the empirical, conspiracism is uncomfortably similar to the technocratic mindset of mainstream political discourse. Technocratic pundits — typified by the likes of Ezra Klein, a journalist and blogger who runs the Washington Post's Wonkblog — are likewise driven almost exclusively by data sets and empirical studies. As Bhaskar Sunkara suggested in this piece for In These Times, such pundits operate under the assumption that the facts are so powerful that they might lead people of all ideologies to embrace a particular array of ideology-free policies.
This is great, because Vox's headlining article "How Politics Made us Stupid" is about how education and facts do not change people's political opinions.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:46 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
With its emphasis on the empirical, conspiracism is uncomfortably similar to the technocratic mindset of mainstream political discourse. Technocratic pundits — typified by the likes of Ezra Klein, a journalist and blogger who runs the Washington Post's Wonkblog — are likewise driven almost exclusively by data sets and empirical studies. As Bhaskar Sunkara suggested in this piece for In These Times, such pundits operate under the assumption that the facts are so powerful that they might lead people of all ideologies to embrace a particular array of ideology-free policies.
This is great, because Vox's headlining article "How Politics Made us Stupid" is about how education and facts do not change people's political opinions.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:46 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
I liked the lead article - it has interesting implications when applied to the anti-vaccination movement.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:48 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:48 AM on April 7, 2014
More than 650,000 eighth graders scored in the top quarter nationally on standardized math and reading tests, researchers from the Education Trust found. Only about 10 percent were from families with the lowest socioeconomic status, a measure of income, occupation and educationIs either of those things a meaningful statement? Surely the number of eighth graders who scored in the upper quartile is just [no. of eight graders] x 0.25; it's not a "finding" that tells us anything about kids' academic progress. For the second point, what proportion of kids overall are from families defined as having "the lowest socioeconomic status"? 30%? 20%? 10%? Without knowing this, knowing that they make up 10% of the top quartile isn't useful.
I mean, I'm sure that the thrust of the argument is correct (specifically, that kids from less advantaged backgrounds are less likely to be in the upper quartile in school), but the article as written doesn't support it.
Regarding the Amtrack thing, ticket checks before getting onto the platforms are the norm for intercity and busy commuter rail in the UK. I've always assumed it's to help limit the number of people waiting on the platforms. In the instances where this leads to crowds and queuing at the turnstiles, I'm happier being part of a heaving, impatient mass of travellers in the station concourse than I would be on a platform next to moving trains.
In the case of Eurostar to and from the UK, they do actually have luggage X-rays and metal detector gates, as well as a British then French passport control, so the queues there aren't a surprise. It has always been pretty quick and painless for me, even on over-booked trains at Christmas.
posted by metaBugs at 6:49 AM on April 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
Amtrak boarding at Penn Station has been like that since the 1990's. I doubt pinning this one on "security theater" is fair.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Here in the midwest, the only issue with boarding Amtrak is that we don't have raised platforms, so a staff member has to deploy The Single Stepstool for everyone to get on via a single door. Which is just nuts, compared to trains everywhere else where the multitude of doors makes boarding easy. I know adding raised platforms isn't exactly easy, but I haven't even seen it discussed when major station overhauls are being planned.
Also I don't know what destination sorting is or why anyone would want that, since the big advantage with trains is having lots of doors that can all be used for boarding/disembarking (although, only if you have raised platforms, see previous complaint).
posted by kiltedtaco at 6:52 AM on April 7, 2014
Also I don't know what destination sorting is or why anyone would want that, since the big advantage with trains is having lots of doors that can all be used for boarding/disembarking (although, only if you have raised platforms, see previous complaint).
posted by kiltedtaco at 6:52 AM on April 7, 2014
I have one Penn Station trick. The main information boards don't say which track the Amtrak is going to depart on until it's basically in the station and arriving passengers are getting out, and then there's a mad scramble to line up at the right escalator. But there are a few small monitors in the corners of the room that show which tracks the arriving trains are coming in on. So if I'm taking the train to Boston, I check one of those monitors to see which track that train is coming in on from Washington, which gives me some advance notice. I think other people have figured this out too, or have other tricks, because I'm never the first in line, but it definitely helps.
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:54 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by A dead Quaker at 6:54 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
zarq: Nope, I've just done the usual weekday transit, though some of those at "peak rush" times for the days in question. I do expect that any transit at an annual peak time (christmas, thanksgiving) would be a mess regardless of the mode though, but I can't comment on how much worse Amtrak is then (I've flown around that time before and it was indeed a mess).
schmod: I'd argue that most of that is due to really poor station design at Penn rather than the "security"; the place is terrible.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 6:56 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
schmod: I'd argue that most of that is due to really poor station design at Penn rather than the "security"; the place is terrible.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 6:56 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I didn't know that boarding Amtrak trains was such a negative thing. The process outlined in the article is basically how you board trains in Spain. I read the whole thing thinking, ". . . wait, what? You're NOT supposed to board trains like this?"
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2014
The last few times I went to Philly by Amtrak from NY Penn, the TSA have a checkpoint set up to pull random people aside for bag swabbing. Other times, I see a heavily armed Amtrak cop blocking the doors on the edge of the NJ Transit corridor where it abuts the LIRR in the central hallway. I imagine that would be to prevent people from skipping the queue upstairs.
On a side note, I see Homeland Security cops on some days at NY Penn station near the NJ Transit hall entrance at the bottom of the 7th ave stairway. I must be getting old because those kids in khaki pants carrying heavy artillery look wayyyy too young.
posted by dr_dank at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2014
On a side note, I see Homeland Security cops on some days at NY Penn station near the NJ Transit hall entrance at the bottom of the 7th ave stairway. I must be getting old because those kids in khaki pants carrying heavy artillery look wayyyy too young.
posted by dr_dank at 7:00 AM on April 7, 2014
This might be because high-status students tend to have college-educated parents, who understand it's important to take a challenging class even at the risk of a lower grade.
Jesus H. Murphy Tap Dancing Christ on a Cracker, it might also be because poor kids already have a full-time job called "being poor," which keeps them very busy and doesn't leave a lot of time and energy at the end of the day for extra work.
I was one of those smart, poor, eighth-graders with top test scores, and I took whatever opportunities my school offered, but it was fucking exhausting. Other kids worked part-time jobs to save money for cars and clothes and semesters abroad, but I worked as many hours as I could get to pay rent and groceries and medical expenses. I was working under the table before I was legally old enough, because we needed the money.
I used to dream that there were boarding schools for poor, smart kids where we could go and just concentrate on school; that would have been amazing. We didn;t need encouragement, or somebody with a page of statistic explaining the importance of grades to us, or encouraging us to go to college - we needed the damn money.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2014 [22 favorites]
Jesus H. Murphy Tap Dancing Christ on a Cracker, it might also be because poor kids already have a full-time job called "being poor," which keeps them very busy and doesn't leave a lot of time and energy at the end of the day for extra work.
I was one of those smart, poor, eighth-graders with top test scores, and I took whatever opportunities my school offered, but it was fucking exhausting. Other kids worked part-time jobs to save money for cars and clothes and semesters abroad, but I worked as many hours as I could get to pay rent and groceries and medical expenses. I was working under the table before I was legally old enough, because we needed the money.
I used to dream that there were boarding schools for poor, smart kids where we could go and just concentrate on school; that would have been amazing. We didn;t need encouragement, or somebody with a page of statistic explaining the importance of grades to us, or encouraging us to go to college - we needed the damn money.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2014 [22 favorites]
Actually, maybe this is a sign we should back away from the Amtrak derail (pun not intended but caught 2.3 seconds after I typed that) as this is about Vox.com anyway rather than Amtrak.
I'll go first: so, Vox was a blogging platform? Did Klein buy the whole thing out or what?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2014
I'll go first: so, Vox was a blogging platform? Did Klein buy the whole thing out or what?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2014
I'll go first: so, Vox was a blogging platform? Did Klein buy the whole thing out or what?
The blogging platform is defunct - it died in 2010.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:22 AM on April 7, 2014
The blogging platform is defunct - it died in 2010.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:22 AM on April 7, 2014
I'm pretty sure Klein just bought the vox.com domain - it used to be a blogging platform run by Six Apart (the company behind Movable Type) but shut down three or four years ago.
posted by zempf at 7:22 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by zempf at 7:22 AM on April 7, 2014
Vox was a blogging platform from 6A (who owned LJ at the time) waaaaaaaaaaay back in the day. The name has long since been bought by Vox Media, who own sites like SBNation, Polygon, etc. Vox.com is the newest Vox Media site; they hired Ezra Klein to run it.
posted by kmz at 7:23 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by kmz at 7:23 AM on April 7, 2014
Goooot it. Looks like it's trying to be a news magazine type of thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 AM on April 7, 2014
Honestly the layout and navigation of all Vox Media sites tend to be a bit much for me. I like a lot of the people that work for them (Jon Bois, Justin and Griffin McElroy) so I muddle through the layouts when I can't get what I need purely from the RSS feeds.
posted by kmz at 7:28 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by kmz at 7:28 AM on April 7, 2014
I was pleasantly surprised to see that the RSS feeds actually have content. I was worried when I paged through the games list last night that the RSS feeds were going to be worthless because the layouts wouldn't translate.
posted by immlass at 7:35 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by immlass at 7:35 AM on April 7, 2014
The Underpants Monster said what I wanted to say, but much more eloquently than I was going to say it. That article is too wordy to be effective linkbait and too glib and contentless to work as anything else.
posted by trunk muffins at 7:36 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by trunk muffins at 7:36 AM on April 7, 2014
Amtrak's boarding rules are less insane when you consider that different places have different safety rules, and that's okay.
posted by gorbweaver at 7:46 AM on April 7, 2014
posted by gorbweaver at 7:46 AM on April 7, 2014
I wish I'd put more money into the stock photography market a few years back.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 8:06 AM on April 7, 2014 [6 favorites]
The socioeconomic background/college article definitely failed to consider any factors having to do with classism and everyday realities of being poor. One particular thing that struck me was the assumption that poorer students didn't take the SAT at as high rates due to lack of knowledge and not, y'know, lack of money. Applying to college, likewise, was expensive when I did it, and had only gotten more so. So applying to those aspirational, "reach" schools is simply not a reasonable economic gamble for all. And that's not even considering classism in student advising, like a friend of mine who was actively discouraged from applying to higher status, more academically challenging colleges by her high school guidance counsellor, because of her family background and in spite of her obvious academic successes.
But I did like the framing as a leaky pipeline problem. Flawed as it is, I found it an improvement on the usual tone in mainstream-ish media discussions about socioeconomic class and higher ed, which seems to involve heavy doses of blaming individuals (including kids) and general poor-bashing. And while the link is less direct for any given individual, college has historically and at the broader population level been a major route to upward economic mobility.
'Course, this article comes at a time when, in the US, a college degree is increasingly a gatekeeper or requirement for middle/upper-middle-class status, but decreasingly a guarantor of such status; and there are a lot of structural sociological and economic factors that make "just send everyone through college" not a feasible solution to poverty or the increasing class segregation/decreasing class mobility in the US.
posted by eviemath at 8:13 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
But I did like the framing as a leaky pipeline problem. Flawed as it is, I found it an improvement on the usual tone in mainstream-ish media discussions about socioeconomic class and higher ed, which seems to involve heavy doses of blaming individuals (including kids) and general poor-bashing. And while the link is less direct for any given individual, college has historically and at the broader population level been a major route to upward economic mobility.
'Course, this article comes at a time when, in the US, a college degree is increasingly a gatekeeper or requirement for middle/upper-middle-class status, but decreasingly a guarantor of such status; and there are a lot of structural sociological and economic factors that make "just send everyone through college" not a feasible solution to poverty or the increasing class segregation/decreasing class mobility in the US.
posted by eviemath at 8:13 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I can't handle going down escalators (weird depth perception) but on my last trip through Penn Station I learned you can take the elevator down to the platform.
posted by shiny blue object at 8:14 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by shiny blue object at 8:14 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I take the Acela/northeastern Amtrak between Union station and Penn periodically and I've never seen any undue delays or inconvenience due to the boarding process thus far.
Really? You've never seen the several-hundred-foot-long line of passengers winding its way through the departure hall in Union Station, starting up a good 20 minutes before a Regional train leaves? It's ridiculous.
What it really comes down isn't so much "security" but, seemingly, control: Amtrak really doesn't want passengers standing on the train platforms, which is how you'd traditionally board a train. You stand on the platform, the train arrives, you enter the train through the nearest door. Trains with assigned seating, or sleeper trains where you need to get sent to a specific car, are the exception rather than the rule (and one that was traditionally solved by having someone tell you where to stand on the platform; most rail platforms have "Location" numbers running along them for this reason, e.g. Location 1, 2, ... X, where each location is about a car-length apart.)
Despite the fact that passengers manage to stand safely on train platforms the world over, including in many other parts of Amtrak's own system, Amtrak apparently figures that we're — at least those of us in Washington and New York — are way too stupid to not, I don't know, waltz off the platform and down onto the rails and get crushed by slow-moving equipment or something. You would think, if this was an issue, then the DC and NYC Metro and Subway respectively would be absolute rivers of blood and gore, but hey that's light rail and totally different.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Really? You've never seen the several-hundred-foot-long line of passengers winding its way through the departure hall in Union Station, starting up a good 20 minutes before a Regional train leaves? It's ridiculous.
What it really comes down isn't so much "security" but, seemingly, control: Amtrak really doesn't want passengers standing on the train platforms, which is how you'd traditionally board a train. You stand on the platform, the train arrives, you enter the train through the nearest door. Trains with assigned seating, or sleeper trains where you need to get sent to a specific car, are the exception rather than the rule (and one that was traditionally solved by having someone tell you where to stand on the platform; most rail platforms have "Location" numbers running along them for this reason, e.g. Location 1, 2, ... X, where each location is about a car-length apart.)
Despite the fact that passengers manage to stand safely on train platforms the world over, including in many other parts of Amtrak's own system, Amtrak apparently figures that we're — at least those of us in Washington and New York — are way too stupid to not, I don't know, waltz off the platform and down onto the rails and get crushed by slow-moving equipment or something. You would think, if this was an issue, then the DC and NYC Metro and Subway respectively would be absolute rivers of blood and gore, but hey that's light rail and totally different.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:16 AM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
And that's not even considering classism in student advising, like a friend of mine who was actively discouraged from applying to higher status, more academically challenging colleges by her high school guidance counsellor, because of her family background and in spite of her obvious academic successes.
Oh, yeah, don't get me started on evil guidance counselors. Mine told me there was no point in even sending for a brochure for my first-choice college. I found out years later that I would have gotten an automatic full scholarship there on the basis of my SAT/ACT scores alone. I was so mad I wanted to go dig him up and smack him upside the head.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:24 AM on April 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
Oh, yeah, don't get me started on evil guidance counselors. Mine told me there was no point in even sending for a brochure for my first-choice college. I found out years later that I would have gotten an automatic full scholarship there on the basis of my SAT/ACT scores alone. I was so mad I wanted to go dig him up and smack him upside the head.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:24 AM on April 7, 2014 [5 favorites]
Judging by the response here, he was right about one thing: people are interested in discussing train boarding procedures. Capturing interest is everything.
posted by mantecol at 8:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by mantecol at 8:51 AM on April 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Kadin2048: No, I've taken the Acela and the Regional during "rush times" and have never seen a "several-hundred-foot" line. There's a rush and a line when they announce the boarding track, but every time that I've done it the line cleared fairly quickly. Since everything funnels to a single person width escalator descending to the track, "security" is really just a checker or two looking to see if you have a ticket when you're getting on it, and that's not been an impediment.
As I mentioned in a different reply, I think that a good deal of this is just due to the terrible layout/design of Penn station. The train platform is really, really small and it's likely a good idea to not have masses of people cramming onto it prior to the train coming in.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2014
As I mentioned in a different reply, I think that a good deal of this is just due to the terrible layout/design of Penn station. The train platform is really, really small and it's likely a good idea to not have masses of people cramming onto it prior to the train coming in.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 8:58 AM on April 7, 2014
And re the Obamacare cards - they put in a joke haha! What's an individual man date?
It looks like there are other jokes embedded in the site too. (links to this)
posted by gladly at 9:33 AM on April 7, 2014
It looks like there are other jokes embedded in the site too. (links to this)
posted by gladly at 9:33 AM on April 7, 2014
Ask me how I know.
Ticket inspectors hate him!
posted by rhizome at 10:32 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ticket inspectors hate him!
posted by rhizome at 10:32 AM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
The way they do it is they have a printed sheet of stickers with car/seat numbers, which they peel off and stick on a little card to hand to you.
When you get to the head of the boarding line, the guy looks at you, and decides whether he hates the sight of you enough to hand-pick you one of his copious supply of car-end seats that don't recline because they back right up against the oversize baggage cabinet, thus guaranteeing you'll get lots of thumping and banging and people sticking their asses in your unreclined face at every stop.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2014
When you get to the head of the boarding line, the guy looks at you, and decides whether he hates the sight of you enough to hand-pick you one of his copious supply of car-end seats that don't recline because they back right up against the oversize baggage cabinet, thus guaranteeing you'll get lots of thumping and banging and people sticking their asses in your unreclined face at every stop.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:45 PM on April 7, 2014
I can't really speak to Penn Station, because I normally take the PATH to Newark and get on there, and Newark is a traditionally designed station where you stand around on the platform. I can accept that Penn Station is messed up beyond repair, though.
But here is a photo of the usual Washington Union Station clusterfuck. That's the head end of the line. You can't see the tail (actually, two tails, it sort of bifurcates as it goes through the chokepoint formed by the doorway-thing, going left and right), it's waaaaay out of the frame to the right. For a fully-sold Regional train it will run well down the length of the concourse. All to funnel people through a door, past a bored ticket-checker and a couple of cops with dogs, and onto the platform.
There's no escalator excuse in Union Station; the platforms are large and with the exception of a small number of low-level ones used by southbound through trains they're at the same level as the station concourse. And even those are used for VRE and MARC (commuter rail) service, without any queueing business.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:16 PM on April 7, 2014
But here is a photo of the usual Washington Union Station clusterfuck. That's the head end of the line. You can't see the tail (actually, two tails, it sort of bifurcates as it goes through the chokepoint formed by the doorway-thing, going left and right), it's waaaaay out of the frame to the right. For a fully-sold Regional train it will run well down the length of the concourse. All to funnel people through a door, past a bored ticket-checker and a couple of cops with dogs, and onto the platform.
There's no escalator excuse in Union Station; the platforms are large and with the exception of a small number of low-level ones used by southbound through trains they're at the same level as the station concourse. And even those are used for VRE and MARC (commuter rail) service, without any queueing business.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:16 PM on April 7, 2014
It's not unique to Amtrak either, as similar measures are e.g. used for Eurostar trains into the UK (marginally more justified because you cross a national border, but not needed to e.g cross into Belgium from the Netherlands by train, or even going to France.)
I just took an AVE train in Spain last week, from Barcelona to Madrid.
The process:
* Show your ticket to an attendant.
* Put your bags through an X-Ray machine.
* Get in a huge lineup in the waiting area.
* Show your ticket again, because that waiting area was actually for two platforms, and go down an escalator.
* Get on train.
It sounds about the same as the Amtrak, with maybe more security, and they posted the platform a decent time in advance.
posted by smackfu at 1:44 PM on April 7, 2014
I just took an AVE train in Spain last week, from Barcelona to Madrid.
The process:
* Show your ticket to an attendant.
* Put your bags through an X-Ray machine.
* Get in a huge lineup in the waiting area.
* Show your ticket again, because that waiting area was actually for two platforms, and go down an escalator.
* Get on train.
It sounds about the same as the Amtrak, with maybe more security, and they posted the platform a decent time in advance.
posted by smackfu at 1:44 PM on April 7, 2014
Kadin2048: Unlike Penn, Union station would be fine to have people on the train platform as it's pretty wide, and the inside waiting area is far too small for all of the people around during a rush. I don't know if "security" is the reason why they don't let people on the platforms though.
I don't think that "security" is so much an issue as that none of these places were designed with security in mind, and Amtrak is hardly funded well enough to drive terminal remodeling to allow for a better flow.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 2:01 PM on April 7, 2014
I don't think that "security" is so much an issue as that none of these places were designed with security in mind, and Amtrak is hardly funded well enough to drive terminal remodeling to allow for a better flow.
posted by CaffinatedOne at 2:01 PM on April 7, 2014
I have never heard of this Amtrak nonsense that they're talking about, and I've taken Amtrak all over the US (and into Canada*), over the course of many years.
The platform shows up on the station departures board.
You go to the platform.
There's an Amtrak employee down there telling people which car to get into. You do what they say, because, like, seriously, why not? What, am I going to demand that they open a different door just for me and all my special snowflakeyness?
Then your ticket gets checked on board, in exactly the way this article insists doesn't happen.
I've never had to wait in any sort of queue to do this. Employees have not asked to see my tickets or anything else prior to boarding.
Unless this is a policy change rolled out in the last year (my last Amtrak trip was in December of 2012), I have no idea what they are even talking about.
If this is something that's been rolled out in the last year, I'm fairly sure it's to prevent stowaways, not for security reasons. The trains are understaffed and it would be very easy to get onboard and just avoid the ticket checkers for a few stops. Since Amtrak makes so few stops, you could cover real distance that way, and it seems to me that Amtrak would want to dissuade people from stealing rides.
*That time, there WAS something akin to an airline boarding process, because Amtrak staff needed to see everyone's passport before allowing folks to board.
posted by Sara C. at 4:33 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
The platform shows up on the station departures board.
You go to the platform.
There's an Amtrak employee down there telling people which car to get into. You do what they say, because, like, seriously, why not? What, am I going to demand that they open a different door just for me and all my special snowflakeyness?
Then your ticket gets checked on board, in exactly the way this article insists doesn't happen.
I've never had to wait in any sort of queue to do this. Employees have not asked to see my tickets or anything else prior to boarding.
Unless this is a policy change rolled out in the last year (my last Amtrak trip was in December of 2012), I have no idea what they are even talking about.
If this is something that's been rolled out in the last year, I'm fairly sure it's to prevent stowaways, not for security reasons. The trains are understaffed and it would be very easy to get onboard and just avoid the ticket checkers for a few stops. Since Amtrak makes so few stops, you could cover real distance that way, and it seems to me that Amtrak would want to dissuade people from stealing rides.
*That time, there WAS something akin to an airline boarding process, because Amtrak staff needed to see everyone's passport before allowing folks to board.
posted by Sara C. at 4:33 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Sara: were any of your trips out of Penn Station? Because Penn Station has been doing exactly what they describe since the 90's:
The train shows up on the station departures board.
You and everyone else taking that train goes to the one escalator to go down to the platform you want. But at the top of the escalator there is someone demanding to see that you have a ticket. They don't check it, they just confirm you have it.
You take the escalator down to the platform and there is another Amtrak person there telling you which way to the business class and which way to the coach class. Meanwhile people are piling up behind you because it is a tiny skinny escalator and a lot of people trying to use it.
You get on the train and try to find a seat.
Your ticket gets formally stamped once you've pulled out of the station.
The article notes that this only happens in the bigger stations like Penn Station and Union Station in DC. The article also notes that this makes no sense because the smaller stations don't do this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2014
The train shows up on the station departures board.
You and everyone else taking that train goes to the one escalator to go down to the platform you want. But at the top of the escalator there is someone demanding to see that you have a ticket. They don't check it, they just confirm you have it.
You take the escalator down to the platform and there is another Amtrak person there telling you which way to the business class and which way to the coach class. Meanwhile people are piling up behind you because it is a tiny skinny escalator and a lot of people trying to use it.
You get on the train and try to find a seat.
Your ticket gets formally stamped once you've pulled out of the station.
The article notes that this only happens in the bigger stations like Penn Station and Union Station in DC. The article also notes that this makes no sense because the smaller stations don't do this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:40 PM on April 7, 2014
The article notes that this only happens in the bigger stations like Penn Station and Union Station in DC. The article also notes that this makes no sense because the smaller stations don't do this.
I strongly suspect it has something to do with not being able to trust people to get on the right train, plus an element of crowd control. (Penn Station is much more of a clusterfuck than Union Station in DC, though, or maybe I've only been through at odd times.) Plus there's the issue that I'm pretty sure the author doesn't have a particularly diverse experience with Amtrak--Amtrak in the northeast, Amtrak on the west coast and the Empire Builder are fairly different in my (rather limited, but more than many people) experience.
posted by hoyland at 5:02 PM on April 7, 2014
I strongly suspect it has something to do with not being able to trust people to get on the right train, plus an element of crowd control. (Penn Station is much more of a clusterfuck than Union Station in DC, though, or maybe I've only been through at odd times.) Plus there's the issue that I'm pretty sure the author doesn't have a particularly diverse experience with Amtrak--Amtrak in the northeast, Amtrak on the west coast and the Empire Builder are fairly different in my (rather limited, but more than many people) experience.
posted by hoyland at 5:02 PM on April 7, 2014
Empress - many of them have been out of Penn Station.
However, one of those was the time I went to Montreal, which I mentioned worked differently.
I don't remember having to actually show my ticket to anyone on the platform, ever. I remember there sometimes being a crowd of people, but, I don't know, is there anyplace in Manhattan, ever, where there isn't a scrum of people trying to do the thing you're doing? I don't think that's something Amtrak has the power to do away with.
posted by Sara C. at 5:07 PM on April 7, 2014
However, one of those was the time I went to Montreal, which I mentioned worked differently.
I don't remember having to actually show my ticket to anyone on the platform, ever. I remember there sometimes being a crowd of people, but, I don't know, is there anyplace in Manhattan, ever, where there isn't a scrum of people trying to do the thing you're doing? I don't think that's something Amtrak has the power to do away with.
posted by Sara C. at 5:07 PM on April 7, 2014
Besides which, even if I apparently showed my ticket to someone and am just plain wrong, it was so deeply not a thing that I have forgotten all about it. Certainly not worth a 600 word screed.
The main problem with the huge urban stations seems to be crowds, which, welp, crowded cities gonna crowd, I guess. My solution to that problem was to decamp to a less crowded place, not whine that Amtrak needs to eradicate all other humans from Penn Station at times I want to travel via rail.
posted by Sara C. at 5:10 PM on April 7, 2014
The main problem with the huge urban stations seems to be crowds, which, welp, crowded cities gonna crowd, I guess. My solution to that problem was to decamp to a less crowded place, not whine that Amtrak needs to eradicate all other humans from Penn Station at times I want to travel via rail.
posted by Sara C. at 5:10 PM on April 7, 2014
Here's how it works:
You get on the train and pull down the lap bar.
Then, a grizzled old prospector says, "Howdy, folks! Please keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the train, and remain seated at all times. Heehee! Now then, hang onto them hats and glasses, 'cause this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness!"
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:21 PM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
You get on the train and pull down the lap bar.
Then, a grizzled old prospector says, "Howdy, folks! Please keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the train, and remain seated at all times. Heehee! Now then, hang onto them hats and glasses, 'cause this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness!"
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:21 PM on April 7, 2014 [4 favorites]
Plus there's the issue that I'm pretty sure the author doesn't have a particularly diverse experience with Amtrak--Amtrak in the northeast, Amtrak on the west coast and the Empire Builder are fairly different in my (rather limited, but more than many people) experience.
Given that the NEC is far and away the most heavily-used segment on Amtrak's network, I think the author can be forgiven if they draw conclusions from it. It's all that a whole lot of Amtrak customers will ever experience.
While I guess the Penn Station stuff can be excused as "crowd control", because Penn Station is a horrible sad fucked-up wound in the shape of a formerly-great train station, that's not the case at Union Station in DC. That station has been there since 1907 and (at least according to Wikipedia) had its peak traffic in the 1940s. This is not "crowded cities gonna crowd", at least not recently. I'm pretty sure they didn't do the "boarding gate" shit there back then (because the current "gate" area didn't exist, it was baggage), so there's no reason to do it now. It seems to be a bizarre Amtrak habit that has developed in the last few decades, probably helped by the 1980s renovation which created the current passenger concourse, and which is very clearly modeled after an airport.
According to this response from Amtrak, their excuse for the current procedure is a very generic "safety reasons". Apparently we have become so stupid in the ensuing decades since Union Station hit its traffic peak that we can't be trusted to stand on train platforms anymore. As Yglesias points out in that article, it's a pretty weak excuse: many commuter railroads and subways handle more passengers than Amtrak, and don't feel the need to corral passengers and herd them around like brain-damaged cattle. Amtrak just doesn't seem to like dealing with people, which is a tough attitude to have if you're a passenger railroad.
In fairness, there does seem to be some interest in redoing the crappy 1980s part of Washington Union Station, so one can only hope that less idiotic heads will prevail than whenever they built the current concourse with its "gates", and build something more suited to a railroad than an airport.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:29 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Given that the NEC is far and away the most heavily-used segment on Amtrak's network, I think the author can be forgiven if they draw conclusions from it. It's all that a whole lot of Amtrak customers will ever experience.
While I guess the Penn Station stuff can be excused as "crowd control", because Penn Station is a horrible sad fucked-up wound in the shape of a formerly-great train station, that's not the case at Union Station in DC. That station has been there since 1907 and (at least according to Wikipedia) had its peak traffic in the 1940s. This is not "crowded cities gonna crowd", at least not recently. I'm pretty sure they didn't do the "boarding gate" shit there back then (because the current "gate" area didn't exist, it was baggage), so there's no reason to do it now. It seems to be a bizarre Amtrak habit that has developed in the last few decades, probably helped by the 1980s renovation which created the current passenger concourse, and which is very clearly modeled after an airport.
According to this response from Amtrak, their excuse for the current procedure is a very generic "safety reasons". Apparently we have become so stupid in the ensuing decades since Union Station hit its traffic peak that we can't be trusted to stand on train platforms anymore. As Yglesias points out in that article, it's a pretty weak excuse: many commuter railroads and subways handle more passengers than Amtrak, and don't feel the need to corral passengers and herd them around like brain-damaged cattle. Amtrak just doesn't seem to like dealing with people, which is a tough attitude to have if you're a passenger railroad.
In fairness, there does seem to be some interest in redoing the crappy 1980s part of Washington Union Station, so one can only hope that less idiotic heads will prevail than whenever they built the current concourse with its "gates", and build something more suited to a railroad than an airport.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:29 PM on April 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
According to this response from Amtrak, their excuse for the current procedure is a very generic "safety reasons"
Here is what I don't get about the 'safety reasons' bullshit. You don't want to allow people with a bomb on a train, because there's a whole bunch of people packed into a small area that can be killed. So you pack a whole bunch of people into a small area BEFORE the security screening happens to prevent it? It makes zero sense.
posted by empath at 8:53 PM on April 7, 2014
Here is what I don't get about the 'safety reasons' bullshit. You don't want to allow people with a bomb on a train, because there's a whole bunch of people packed into a small area that can be killed. So you pack a whole bunch of people into a small area BEFORE the security screening happens to prevent it? It makes zero sense.
posted by empath at 8:53 PM on April 7, 2014
I can concur with Sara C in that this totally shocked me. In Norcal, we don't do nearly any of that train boarding shit. Everyone stands around and mobs every open car to get onto Amtrak, you find a seat, and eventually a train conductor will come along to check your ticket, period. Hell, sometimes they don't come around for an entire stop. And supposedly you can just hop a train and BUY a ticket while you're on it for even more money, though I don't think I've seen anyone actually try it and I suspect that wouldn't actually happen.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:25 PM on April 7, 2014
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:25 PM on April 7, 2014
It's silly to have to queue up for the nominal "yes you have a ticket" check, but it's not nearly as big of a deal as all this. I'm in Philly, we've been going through this routine at 30th Street for a long time.
(I can't specifically recall whether I took Amtrak before 9/11, though, as I was more wont to use the still-cheap SEPTA->NJTransit route to get to NYC in those days.)
posted by desuetude at 9:53 PM on April 7, 2014
(I can't specifically recall whether I took Amtrak before 9/11, though, as I was more wont to use the still-cheap SEPTA->NJTransit route to get to NYC in those days.)
posted by desuetude at 9:53 PM on April 7, 2014
Yes, they are. It's not unique to Amtrak either, as similar measures are e.g. used for Eurostar trains into the UK (marginally more justified because you cross a national border, but not needed to e.g cross into Belgium from the Netherlands by train, or even going to France.)
Not too weird since the UK is not in the Schengen area whereas the other three countries are.
posted by ersatz at 4:54 AM on April 8, 2014
Not too weird since the UK is not in the Schengen area whereas the other three countries are.
posted by ersatz at 4:54 AM on April 8, 2014
Sara C.: " I don't remember having to actually show my ticket to anyone on the platform, ever. I remember there sometimes being a crowd of people, but, I don't know, is there anyplace in Manhattan, ever, where there isn't a scrum of people trying to do the thing you're doing? I don't think that's something Amtrak has the power to do away with."
Generally-speaking, yes you have to show your ticket before descending to the platform for Amtrak trains in Penn Station. I've been taking Amtrak trains in and out of Penn Station since 1989, and it has been their policy since at least then. For a period of time in the 90's I was taking Amtrak 3-5x a week out of Penn.
I've descended to the platform without having my ticket checked only on very rare occasions. And in those cases, I've almost always had my ticket checked at the base of the escalator or stairs rather than at the top. But top of the escalator/stairs is better, so you don't experience a pileup at the bottom of the escalator / stairs.
They could absolutely do away with the policy, as we can see from the way Long Island Rail Road handles their passengers. (I've also traveled on LIRR since the 1980's.) Conductors on LIRR check your tickets on the train. They don't screen you until after you board, after the train is moving. Get caught without a ticket and they charge you on the train. Can't pay? They'll drop you off (and if you're very lucky, they won't do it into police custody) at the next stop.
There is no logical reason for Amtrak to screen passengers in Penn Station prior to boarding. Other rail lines don't bother. They shouldn't either.
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2014
Generally-speaking, yes you have to show your ticket before descending to the platform for Amtrak trains in Penn Station. I've been taking Amtrak trains in and out of Penn Station since 1989, and it has been their policy since at least then. For a period of time in the 90's I was taking Amtrak 3-5x a week out of Penn.
I've descended to the platform without having my ticket checked only on very rare occasions. And in those cases, I've almost always had my ticket checked at the base of the escalator or stairs rather than at the top. But top of the escalator/stairs is better, so you don't experience a pileup at the bottom of the escalator / stairs.
They could absolutely do away with the policy, as we can see from the way Long Island Rail Road handles their passengers. (I've also traveled on LIRR since the 1980's.) Conductors on LIRR check your tickets on the train. They don't screen you until after you board, after the train is moving. Get caught without a ticket and they charge you on the train. Can't pay? They'll drop you off (and if you're very lucky, they won't do it into police custody) at the next stop.
There is no logical reason for Amtrak to screen passengers in Penn Station prior to boarding. Other rail lines don't bother. They shouldn't either.
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2014
Amtrak - Boarding Process
posted by zarq at 7:41 AM on April 8, 2014
What do I need to know about boarding my train?
The boarding process is very easy, but does vary from station to station. Here are some tips to help on your journey, beginning with what you need to know about boarding your train.
Checking tickets at the gate
At a few stations (Washington, DC; Philadelphia, PA; New York, NY; Boston, MA; Chicago, IL; Portland, OR; and Seattle, WA), passengers are required to show their tickets to an Amtrak employee at the gate prior to boarding. At these stations, be sure to have your printed ticket, or mobile eTicket open on your device screen, available for inspection while waiting to board.
At some stations it may be necessary to close boarding gates three to ten minutes prior to train departure to make sure you can board your train safely.
posted by zarq at 7:41 AM on April 8, 2014
Kadin2048: " According to this response from Amtrak, their excuse for the current procedure is a very generic "safety reasons". Apparently we have become so stupid in the ensuing decades since Union Station hit its traffic peak that we can't be trusted to stand on train platforms anymore. As Yglesias points out in that article, it's a pretty weak excuse: many commuter railroads and subways handle more passengers than Amtrak, and don't feel the need to corral passengers and herd them around like brain-damaged cattle. Amtrak just doesn't seem to like dealing with people, which is a tough attitude to have if you're a passenger railroad."
Thanks for that link. This part was fascinating:
Thanks for that link. This part was fascinating:
"As Mr Yglesias pointed out in response to an Amtrak blog post on this subject, New Jersey Transit, which uses the exact same platforms in Penn Station as Amtrak does, lets passengers wait on the platform—and carries more passengers. People all over the world are able to handle boarding trains from crowded, narrow platforms. Even we notoriously coddled Americans board trains from crowded platforms all the time; New York's Lexington Avenue 4-5-6 subway line carries more passengers every day than the Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington, DC, metro systems combined, and its platforms get extremely crowded. It's hard to believe that Amtrak passengers are any more (or less) prone to accidents on train platforms than subway or New Jersey Transit passengers.posted by zarq at 7:57 AM on April 8, 2014
It's hard to believe that Amtrak passengers are any more (or less) prone to accidents on train platforms than subway or New Jersey Transit passengers.
This is also true for London Underground, even though, as mentioned above, inter-city train stations in the UK seperate passengers from the platforms until immediately prior to departure. I think there are a couple of differences that haven't been mentioned in this thread that might explain what Amtrak (disclaimer: I don't know anything about Amtrak, even after reading that article).
1) Subways make you use your ticket to gain access immediately on entering a station. It sounds like Amtrak needs to invest in automatic barriers as is common in the UK
2) Subways are usually through stations with limited platform rather than big terminal stations with multiple end platforms. In the UK, one of the reasons they don't announce platforms is in case a train is delayed and platforms have to be shuffled.
3) Subways are short haul so are not staffed and have fewer amenities. If you get on an inter-city train in the UK, the company wants time to clean and re-stock prior to the next set of passengers getting on board.
Of course, none of this may in this specific instances but reading the article, it didn't seem obviously insane to these European eyes.
posted by ninebelow at 9:14 AM on April 8, 2014
This is also true for London Underground, even though, as mentioned above, inter-city train stations in the UK seperate passengers from the platforms until immediately prior to departure. I think there are a couple of differences that haven't been mentioned in this thread that might explain what Amtrak (disclaimer: I don't know anything about Amtrak, even after reading that article).
1) Subways make you use your ticket to gain access immediately on entering a station. It sounds like Amtrak needs to invest in automatic barriers as is common in the UK
2) Subways are usually through stations with limited platform rather than big terminal stations with multiple end platforms. In the UK, one of the reasons they don't announce platforms is in case a train is delayed and platforms have to be shuffled.
3) Subways are short haul so are not staffed and have fewer amenities. If you get on an inter-city train in the UK, the company wants time to clean and re-stock prior to the next set of passengers getting on board.
Of course, none of this may in this specific instances but reading the article, it didn't seem obviously insane to these European eyes.
posted by ninebelow at 9:14 AM on April 8, 2014
They could absolutely do away with the policy, as we can see from the way Long Island Rail Road handles their passengers. (I've also traveled on LIRR since the 1980's.) Conductors on LIRR check your tickets on the train. They don't screen you until after you board, after the train is moving. Get caught without a ticket and they charge you on the train. Can't pay? They'll drop you off (and if you're very lucky, they won't do it into police custody) at the next stop.
Keep in mind that, on the LIRR, kicking you off at the next stop means, like, from Penn Station to Jamaica Station in Queens. On Amtrak, that might mean a free ride from NYC to Philadelphia or Poughkeepsie. Successfully hide in the bathroom for a couple of stops and you could get a free ride across a few states. Amtrak has a lot more incentive to keep people from stealing rides, especially in the busy Northeast Corridor.
I have a strong feeling that "safety" is code for L&D, not counterterrorism.
posted by Sara C. at 9:20 AM on April 8, 2014
Keep in mind that, on the LIRR, kicking you off at the next stop means, like, from Penn Station to Jamaica Station in Queens. On Amtrak, that might mean a free ride from NYC to Philadelphia or Poughkeepsie. Successfully hide in the bathroom for a couple of stops and you could get a free ride across a few states. Amtrak has a lot more incentive to keep people from stealing rides, especially in the busy Northeast Corridor.
I have a strong feeling that "safety" is code for L&D, not counterterrorism.
posted by Sara C. at 9:20 AM on April 8, 2014
New Jersey Transit, which uses the exact same platforms in Penn Station as Amtrak does, lets passengers wait on the platform—and carries more passengers.
In fairness to Amtrak, its passengers are more likely to have significant luggage and less likely to have any clue how the boarding process works or how to find the platforms (since they do it less frequently) than commuter rail passengers. So even on the exact same platform (and it usually is for NJT and Amtrak), boarding's not exactly the same experience.
posted by asperity at 9:23 AM on April 8, 2014
In fairness to Amtrak, its passengers are more likely to have significant luggage and less likely to have any clue how the boarding process works or how to find the platforms (since they do it less frequently) than commuter rail passengers. So even on the exact same platform (and it usually is for NJT and Amtrak), boarding's not exactly the same experience.
posted by asperity at 9:23 AM on April 8, 2014
In the UK, one of the reasons they don't announce platforms is in case a train is delayed and platforms have to be shuffled.
Yeah, this has been more my experience in the US, as well. You wait around in the concourse area for the platform assignment. Once that platform shows up, there's a mad rush for the platform. Thus the wait to board. Because, again, crowded places gonna crowd. If you're trying to get on a busy Northeast Corridor train, yes, you are pretty much 100% guaranteed to be in a crowd of people all jockeying for a seat. Thus crowd control measures needed at boarding, not to mention more incentive to keep fare jumpers from stealing rides by checking tickets as people board.
Which, as I said above, is how Greyhound does it, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 9:24 AM on April 8, 2014
Yeah, this has been more my experience in the US, as well. You wait around in the concourse area for the platform assignment. Once that platform shows up, there's a mad rush for the platform. Thus the wait to board. Because, again, crowded places gonna crowd. If you're trying to get on a busy Northeast Corridor train, yes, you are pretty much 100% guaranteed to be in a crowd of people all jockeying for a seat. Thus crowd control measures needed at boarding, not to mention more incentive to keep fare jumpers from stealing rides by checking tickets as people board.
Which, as I said above, is how Greyhound does it, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 9:24 AM on April 8, 2014
Is There a Wonk Bubble? Why the boom in data journalism actually makes sense.
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on April 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on April 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Objectively bad: Ezra Klein, Nate Silver, Jonathan Chait and return of the “view from nowhere”
posted by homunculus at 3:17 PM on April 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 3:17 PM on April 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Bad news: you probably have herpes and don't know it
No, You Do Not "Probably Have Herpes" Despite what an article published this morning claims
posted by homunculus at 2:43 PM on April 23, 2014
No, You Do Not "Probably Have Herpes" Despite what an article published this morning claims
posted by homunculus at 2:43 PM on April 23, 2014
« Older "The filmmaker Jim Jarmusch is old school." | Let The Healing Begin Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:13 AM on April 7, 2014 [7 favorites]