"It just doesn't seem quite fair."
October 18, 2014 10:43 AM Subscribe
Is Sampling Tom Petty Like Plagiarizing from Moby-Dick? [SLYT] Mini-documentary on 'sampling' circa 1989.
Even though I was alive at the time I don't remember the 1989 hairstyles, fashions and accessories being as god-awful fugly as almost everyone comes across in this, up to and including Lou Reed. What was everyone thinking?
posted by Curious Artificer at 11:01 AM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Curious Artificer at 11:01 AM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't know. The Cold Cut dudes looked like almost any DJ running around today. And other than for the weird green hat, Andy Partridge could have been any hipster sitting in a 2014 cafe. And Will Smith in 1989 looked pretty much identical to how he looks in 2014.
posted by blucevalo at 11:18 AM on October 18, 2014
posted by blucevalo at 11:18 AM on October 18, 2014
Even though I was alive at the time I don't remember the 1989 hairstyles, fashions and accessories being as god-awful fugly as almost everyone comes across in this, up to and including Lou Reed. What was everyone thinking?
It really can't be overemphasized how much of an impact the banning of aerosol hairsprays had on everything.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:20 AM on October 18, 2014 [14 favorites]
It really can't be overemphasized how much of an impact the banning of aerosol hairsprays had on everything.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:20 AM on October 18, 2014 [14 favorites]
On to the new video from Tina Turner...
posted by bpm140 at 11:27 AM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by bpm140 at 11:27 AM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
i dunno what we were thinking, curious artificer, but awhile back i saw pics of my high school (early '70s) and jesus, the hair.
posted by bruce at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2014
posted by bruce at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2014
>awhile back i saw pics of my high school (early '70s) and jesus, the hair.
It's the size of the shirt collars that astonishes me. If any of us had accidentally fallen from a great height, we would have found it possible to glide to safety using our shirt collars.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:18 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's the size of the shirt collars that astonishes me. If any of us had accidentally fallen from a great height, we would have found it possible to glide to safety using our shirt collars.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:18 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Speaking of hairspray, Steve Stevens really should not have been smoking near his own hairdo. That was one hell of a fire hazard.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:23 PM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:23 PM on October 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
The Time I Spent On A Commercial Whaling Ship Totally Changed My Perspective On The World
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2014 [11 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2014 [11 favorites]
Steve Stevens
Did you ever notice there is a verse in "Eyes Without A Face" where Billy Idol sort of raps? Punk as fuck.
posted by thelonius at 1:59 PM on October 18, 2014
Did you ever notice there is a verse in "Eyes Without A Face" where Billy Idol sort of raps? Punk as fuck.
posted by thelonius at 1:59 PM on October 18, 2014
Welp, in 2014, one million dj hipster McWeirdnames upload their shat-out-of-ableton-in-10mins fucked up vaportrap futurefunk mashups to bandcamp for pay-what-you-want and it just doesn't seem quite fair but there's not much the corpse of Tom Petty can do about it.
posted by fleetmouse at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by fleetmouse at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Aside from all the interesting fashion choices of back then, it's really cool to see all the musicians that sort of jump onto the screen for just a few short seconds.
posted by Fizz at 3:05 PM on October 18, 2014
posted by Fizz at 3:05 PM on October 18, 2014
Kurt Loder, what hath thou wrought?
posted by infinitewindow at 4:06 PM on October 18, 2014
posted by infinitewindow at 4:06 PM on October 18, 2014
This piece that appeared in the blue some years back is also illustrates how one sample called the Amen Break came from an obscure 60's soul group and popped up everywhere you looked.
I love the Amen Break, and I love the mini-documentary about how that break became so popular, but I would dispute your characterization of the Winstons, the group that came up with Amen Break, as "an obscure 60s soul group." The Amen Break is part of a gospel-tinged instrumental called Amen Brother, which is found on the B-side of "Color Him Father." "Color Him Father" was the Winstons' biggest hit, reaching #7 on the pop charts and #2 on the R&B charts, which is hardly what I'll call obscure. Instead, I would argue that the popularity of the Amen Break has to do not with its obscurity but with appearing on the B-side of a Top Ten R&B hit. The Amen Break was not obscure, but a break hidden in plain sight. It was not a hard single for beat diggers to track down, which is precisely why the break is so popular.
posted by jonp72 at 5:31 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I love the Amen Break, and I love the mini-documentary about how that break became so popular, but I would dispute your characterization of the Winstons, the group that came up with Amen Break, as "an obscure 60s soul group." The Amen Break is part of a gospel-tinged instrumental called Amen Brother, which is found on the B-side of "Color Him Father." "Color Him Father" was the Winstons' biggest hit, reaching #7 on the pop charts and #2 on the R&B charts, which is hardly what I'll call obscure. Instead, I would argue that the popularity of the Amen Break has to do not with its obscurity but with appearing on the B-side of a Top Ten R&B hit. The Amen Break was not obscure, but a break hidden in plain sight. It was not a hard single for beat diggers to track down, which is precisely why the break is so popular.
posted by jonp72 at 5:31 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Love ya Tom Petty, but that's not plagiarizing from Moby Dick. Now that's plagiarizing Moby Dick!
posted by jonp72 at 5:35 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 5:35 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
One big hole in sampling documentation, despite the presence of the-breaks.com and whosampled.com, is a good amount of the samples of hip hop songs by other hip hop songs. In 'You Can't Play with my Yo-Yo", there's a "don't try to play me out" sample that I never stopped to think about. Then one day I'm listening to Queen Latifah, and I hear it. Neat. And there was actually a rare scratch sample, which was really more of a theft, but I believe on one of Paris' songs, they sampled Mix-a-lot's dj (punisher). I can never find which song it was.
I actually use that in coming up with the greatest rappers. Some rap songs (follow the leader, microphone fiend, don't believe the hype) have been sampled and interpolated so many times, they're like a permanent part of the fabric of hip hop.
For microphone fiend, reading the lyrics I can point to a songs that interpolated or sampled "I was a fiend", "fitted like pieces of puzzles, complicated", the "know what I mean" part was sampled, the "E-F-F-E-C-T" lyric was made into a song with that title, the "back to the problem" part was interpolated, the "lethal weapon" part was made into a song with that title, the "assassinator" part was made into a song with that title, and the lethal weapon song used the sample, the "worse than a gremlin" part was made into a song with that title.
And so on and so on, simultaneously, even if I stop.
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I actually use that in coming up with the greatest rappers. Some rap songs (follow the leader, microphone fiend, don't believe the hype) have been sampled and interpolated so many times, they're like a permanent part of the fabric of hip hop.
For microphone fiend, reading the lyrics I can point to a songs that interpolated or sampled "I was a fiend", "fitted like pieces of puzzles, complicated", the "know what I mean" part was sampled, the "E-F-F-E-C-T" lyric was made into a song with that title, the "back to the problem" part was interpolated, the "lethal weapon" part was made into a song with that title, the "assassinator" part was made into a song with that title, and the lethal weapon song used the sample, the "worse than a gremlin" part was made into a song with that title.
And so on and so on, simultaneously, even if I stop.
posted by cashman at 5:47 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
So looking back, what's the verdict...is sampling innovation or imitation?
posted by Emor at 6:48 PM on October 18, 2014
posted by Emor at 6:48 PM on October 18, 2014
So looking back, what's the verdict...is sampling innovation or imitation?
Yes.
posted by jonp72 at 7:07 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes.
posted by jonp72 at 7:07 PM on October 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Most samples come from b-sides of hit records. Wasn't that part of the formula? I think the literary metaphor is apt. There are a million plus different ways to put notes and words together to make a song or story. From now on I am going to refer to this genre officially as Hip Pop. I feel like I am being sold nostalgia or sentimentality.
posted by Emor at 8:30 PM on October 18, 2014
posted by Emor at 8:30 PM on October 18, 2014
Did you ever notice there is a verse in "Eyes Without A Face" where Billy Idol sort of raps? Punk as fuck.
That bit of garbled muttering after the chorus? Now that you mention it, it's kinda genius.
posted by ovvl at 8:43 AM on October 19, 2014
That bit of garbled muttering after the chorus? Now that you mention it, it's kinda genius.
posted by ovvl at 8:43 AM on October 19, 2014
Say your prayers.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:09 AM on October 19, 2014
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:09 AM on October 19, 2014
Actually, Whosampled is pretty decent with documenting songs that used Microphone Fiend. They missed the Audio Two song Worse than a Gremlin though, and I just remembered the 'know what I mean?' vocal sample from Microphone Fiend was also scratched into Audio Two's "Get your mother off the crack", which they do have. Not bad. I wonder how they're doing it - by some kind of ascap records?
posted by cashman at 10:29 AM on October 20, 2014
posted by cashman at 10:29 AM on October 20, 2014
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posted by dr_dank at 10:50 AM on October 18, 2014 [2 favorites]