*A good dictionary and usage dictionary are strongly recommended.
November 16, 2014 3:12 PM Subscribe
David Foster Wallace’s Syllabus for His 2008 Creative Nonfiction Course: Includes Reading List & Footnotes [salon.com]
Class Rules & Procedures (1) For obvious reasons, you’re required to attend every class. An absence will be excused only under extraordinary circumstances. Having more than one excused absence, and any unexcused ones at all, will result in a lowered final grade. After the first two weeks, chronic or flagrant tardiness will count as an unexcused absence.
Mandatory attendance? Lame lame lame.
posted by ian1977 at 3:30 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 3:30 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
But par for the course, good ol' Prof. Christopher (deceased) back at Georgia Southern had similar provisions in his syllabus.
posted by JHarris at 3:34 PM on November 16, 2014
posted by JHarris at 3:34 PM on November 16, 2014
I dunno, I liked the grading system.
Is this hugely different from how other high-level university writing classes are taught?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2014
Is this hugely different from how other high-level university writing classes are taught?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:35 PM on November 16, 2014
It's a discussion section of nonfiction literature. Being in class to talk about what you read is most of the point.
posted by dismas at 3:36 PM on November 16, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by dismas at 3:36 PM on November 16, 2014 [8 favorites]
This reads like the syllabus for a perfectly ordinary 100-level small-group English lit discussion class, especially at a mid-level state university. Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel for DFW marginalia now?
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:37 PM on November 16, 2014 [24 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 3:37 PM on November 16, 2014 [24 favorites]
It is a creative writing course that meets once a week for three hours. Of course attendance is required.
posted by Theodore Sign at 3:37 PM on November 16, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Theodore Sign at 3:37 PM on November 16, 2014 [8 favorites]
(N.B. The instructor’s grade scale is numerical and goes like this: 13 = A+ = Mind-blowingly good; 12 = A = Extremely good; 11 = A- = Very, very good; 10 = B+ = Very good; 9 = B = Pretty good; 8 = B- = OK; 7 = C+ = Mildly subpar; 6 = C = Seriously subpar; 4, 3, 2 = D = Downright bad; 0 = F = Obvious.)
What happens if you get a 5?
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 3:43 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
What happens if you get a 5?
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 3:43 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
A+ is a potential grade? Is this middle school?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:45 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:45 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
Grading in creative writing courses is a dark art, in any case.
posted by Theodore Sign at 3:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by Theodore Sign at 3:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
I always meant to look more closely at DFW to confirm my own feelings, and it looks like the Reader might be worth picking up.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:49 PM on November 16, 2014
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:49 PM on November 16, 2014
Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel for DFW marginalia now?
I would read all 56 pages of the iTunes Terms and Conditions if they were written by DFW.
Footnotes and all.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:49 PM on November 16, 2014 [34 favorites]
I would read all 56 pages of the iTunes Terms and Conditions if they were written by DFW.
Footnotes and all.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:49 PM on November 16, 2014 [34 favorites]
"For writers: One reason to double-space your essays and to give them generous margins is to give us space to write marginali..."
An, an ALL THIS FROM SILLY-bus
posted by clavdivs at 3:53 PM on November 16, 2014
An, an ALL THIS FROM SILLY-bus
posted by clavdivs at 3:53 PM on November 16, 2014
What happens if you get a 5?
"Even more seriously subpar."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:53 PM on November 16, 2014
"Even more seriously subpar."
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 3:53 PM on November 16, 2014
Also, Teaching materials from the David Foster Wallace archive, for anyone wanting more of this, in barely legible images at that.
Featuring such hideous gems as "If the offender is male, I am also apt to find him off-campus and beat him up" (p. 4).
posted by sylvanshine at 3:55 PM on November 16, 2014 [6 favorites]
Featuring such hideous gems as "If the offender is male, I am also apt to find him off-campus and beat him up" (p. 4).
posted by sylvanshine at 3:55 PM on November 16, 2014 [6 favorites]
The only thing different than most writing workshops I'd say is the letter you're supposed to write in response to each colleague's essay you read. Which is awesome and I would totally institute that rule if I was teaching grad students or higher level undergrad writing courses. Engaging as a critic is the whole point of the course. Understanding your craft comes by doing and by defining for yourself what you like or don't like in your chosen field and Why. Scribbling a couple of ?s in the margins of someone else's doesn't usually cut it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
Attendance, Quality & Quantity of Participation, Effort, Improvement, Alacrity of Carriage, Etc. = 20%..
... like this from "Shipping Out":
posted by stbalbach at 4:04 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
... like this from "Shipping Out":
This is related to the phenomenon of the Professional Smile, a national pandemic in the service industry; and no place in my experience have I been on the receiving end of as many Professional Smiles as I am on the [cruise ship] Nadir: maitre d's, Chief Stewards, Hotel Managers' minions, Cruise Director -- their PS's all come on like switches at my approach. But also back at land at banks, restaurants, airline ticket counters, on and on. You know this smile: the strenuous contraction of circumoral fascia w/ incomplete zygomatic involvement, the smile that doesn't quite reach the smiler's eyes and that signifies nothing more than a calculated attempt to advance the smiler's own interests by pretending to like the smilee. Why do employers and supervisors force professional service people to broadcast the Professional Smile? Am I the only consumer in whom high doses of such a smile produce despair?A "strenuous contraction of circumoral fascia w/ incomplete zygomatic involvement" will get you an extra few points with DFW.
Who do they think is fooled by the Professional Smile?
posted by stbalbach at 4:04 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
The only thing different than most writing workshops I'd say is the letter you're supposed to write in response to each colleague's essay you read.
This is something we did in my high school Creative Writing class, cover letter stapled to the front and all. And you're right, it was remarkably helpful in learning how to write, and to understand writing.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:06 PM on November 16, 2014
This is something we did in my high school Creative Writing class, cover letter stapled to the front and all. And you're right, it was remarkably helpful in learning how to write, and to understand writing.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:06 PM on November 16, 2014
We really need, as a culture, to do something about the stigma of mental illness.
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the general tone of "duh" here, but I never made it past a 200 level writing class in a junior college.1
1Some junior colleges are better than others of course.
Community colleges — sometimes called junior colleges, technical colleges or city colleges — are mostly two-year public institutions of higher education, awarding certificates, diplomas and associate’s degrees. Some community colleges offer technical credentials; many community colleges carry comprehensive transfer and career-oriented programs. Many community colleges offer adult and continuing education.
The name community college originates from the fact the colleges primarily attract students from the local community and they are often supported by local taxes.
According to the American Association of Community Colleges (AACC), the 1,132+ community colleges in the U.S. enroll nearly half of all undergraduates in the U.S.—just over 13 million students. These community colleges graduate 20-25 percent of all first-time, full-time students.
For millions of adult learners and students, community colleges are vital pathways to more advanced education or enhanced employment. Earning an associate degree is a springboard to advancement for many, whether they transfer the credits to a four-year college or use it to procure a better job.
I wish David Foster Wallace was still around, even if he wasn't writing.
posted by vapidave at 4:21 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the general tone of "duh" here, but I never made it past a 200 level writing class in a junior college.1
1Some junior colleges are better than others of course.
Community colleges — sometimes called junior colleges, technical colleges or city colleges — are mostly two-year public institutions of higher education, awarding certificates, diplomas and associate’s degrees. Some community colleges offer technical credentials; many community colleges carry comprehensive transfer and career-oriented programs. Many community colleges offer adult and continuing education.
The name community college originates from the fact the colleges primarily attract students from the local community and they are often supported by local taxes.
According to the American Association of Community Colleges (AACC), the 1,132+ community colleges in the U.S. enroll nearly half of all undergraduates in the U.S.—just over 13 million students. These community colleges graduate 20-25 percent of all first-time, full-time students.
For millions of adult learners and students, community colleges are vital pathways to more advanced education or enhanced employment. Earning an associate degree is a springboard to advancement for many, whether they transfer the credits to a four-year college or use it to procure a better job.
I wish David Foster Wallace was still around, even if he wasn't writing.
posted by vapidave at 4:21 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
"Extraordinary circumstances," can mean a lot of things. If I'm a college student, it could mean I just got back from a 3-day road trip that fueled my creative writing by providing life experiences. Experiences like going on a bender of cheap beer, weed and ending in a three-way on magic mushrooms, all while evading the police because of that thing Larry did at the cemetery.
He probably means a death in the family (and no uncles or aunts, either).
posted by Chuffy at 4:24 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
He probably means a death in the family (and no uncles or aunts, either).
posted by Chuffy at 4:24 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
For those wondering what all the fuss is about, the real meat is in his description of the course, which includes his breakdown of the concept of "creative non-fiction." As someone who has mixed feelings about Wallace's fiction, but thinks that his non-fiction essays and reviews constitute some of the best English-language writing of the last few decades, I found this to be pretty edifying.
The money quote:
Creative also suggests that this kind of nonfiction tends to bear traces of its own artificing; the essay’s author usually wants us to see and understand her as the text’s maker. This does not, however, mean that an essayist’s main goal is simply to “share” or “express herself” or whatever feel-good term you might have got taught in high school. In the grown-up world, creative nonfiction is not expressive writing but rather communicative writing. And an axiom of communicative writing is that the reader does not automatically care about you (the writer), nor does she find you fascinating as a person, nor does she feel a deep natural interest in the same things that interest you. The reader, in fact, will feel about you, your subject, and your essay only what your written words themselves induce her to feel.
posted by alexoscar at 4:29 PM on November 16, 2014 [19 favorites]
The money quote:
Creative also suggests that this kind of nonfiction tends to bear traces of its own artificing; the essay’s author usually wants us to see and understand her as the text’s maker. This does not, however, mean that an essayist’s main goal is simply to “share” or “express herself” or whatever feel-good term you might have got taught in high school. In the grown-up world, creative nonfiction is not expressive writing but rather communicative writing. And an axiom of communicative writing is that the reader does not automatically care about you (the writer), nor does she find you fascinating as a person, nor does she feel a deep natural interest in the same things that interest you. The reader, in fact, will feel about you, your subject, and your essay only what your written words themselves induce her to feel.
posted by alexoscar at 4:29 PM on November 16, 2014 [19 favorites]
> Featuring such hideous gems
403 FORBIDDEN!?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 4:32 PM on November 16, 2014
403 FORBIDDEN!?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 4:32 PM on November 16, 2014
403 FORBIDDEN!?
Take "/images/Wallace_Syllabus_004_large.jpg" off the URL to get to the main page, then go from there.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:35 PM on November 16, 2014
Take "/images/Wallace_Syllabus_004_large.jpg" off the URL to get to the main page, then go from there.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:35 PM on November 16, 2014
does this class start at 7am or 7pm?
posted by mullacc at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by mullacc at 4:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
As a former college student and current college instructor, I don't get whining about mandatory attendance. This means that the class meets for a reason, that substantive knowledge and formation is created in the classroom, and besides: you (or someone else) paid a handsome sum for it.
If that's not reason enough, students who don't show up invariably perform more poorly than their peers who do (unless, I guess, if you're re-taking the course—although, let's face it, you're probably doing so because you didn't show up the first time). These are the same people who complain about college not preparing students enough for "the real world," where attendance is generally required with much less leniency than in my classroom.
posted by whiterteeth at 4:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
If that's not reason enough, students who don't show up invariably perform more poorly than their peers who do (unless, I guess, if you're re-taking the course—although, let's face it, you're probably doing so because you didn't show up the first time). These are the same people who complain about college not preparing students enough for "the real world," where attendance is generally required with much less leniency than in my classroom.
posted by whiterteeth at 4:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
Another thing about this: can you imagine another professor's syllabus written in their actual style? (I mean sure you can, and that'd be pretty fun actually, but most of them aren't. At least, I've seen John Barth and a couple of other famous or semi-famous author's syllabus and they were just regular). I mean if you read this syllabus and didn't know who it was you'd be like "Oose this bloke this 'ee is? D Fuckin F W?" It's a testament to both the power of his style that it shines through even in technical writing and to how authentic it was--run-ons, litanies and wise pronouncements like this just sprang fully formed out of his fussy, pedantic, clever, effusive, bitter brain.
Also, Salon's headline on this piece gives me the howlings. Get a grip Salon!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:06 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
Also, Salon's headline on this piece gives me the howlings. Get a grip Salon!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:06 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
Also, Salon's headline on this piece gives me the howlings. Get a grip Salon!
That really jumped out at me, too. But it's not just this piece; one of the related articles does the same. No wonder this was (mercifully) t.co'd.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:31 PM on November 16, 2014
That really jumped out at me, too. But it's not just this piece; one of the related articles does the same. No wonder this was (mercifully) t.co'd.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:31 PM on November 16, 2014
I liked this syllabus! DFW seems like he would have been a kickass prof. He's so thoughtful in how he presents his expectations. Very cool.
posted by oceanjesse at 5:36 PM on November 16, 2014
posted by oceanjesse at 5:36 PM on November 16, 2014
The syllabus that sylvanshine linked to helps feed the occasional fantasy that I've had of my being at Illinois State University when DFW was on the faculty.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:36 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:36 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
I grew up in Claremont and went to Pomona college and you can't imagine how proud and happy it made me to know that my alma mater had brought in DFW. From all reports, he was a wonderful teacher and his classes were life changing for his students. I think when we critique his syllabus, we may be overlooking the importance of being in a room with him for 3 hours a week.
posted by janey47 at 5:42 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 5:42 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Google is spectacularly unhelpful in determining which cat is Meredith and which Olivia Benson
Damn it Google
Whoo this was the wrong thread
My point stands
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:44 PM on November 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
Damn it Google
Whoo this was the wrong thread
My point stands
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:44 PM on November 16, 2014 [5 favorites]
20% of the grade is attendance and "discussion"
So if one Aced the other 80%, what would the grade be if you only went once or twice.
I'm thinking B- which ain't bad considering you would not have to attend.
posted by clavdivs at 6:09 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
So if one Aced the other 80%, what would the grade be if you only went once or twice.
I'm thinking B- which ain't bad considering you would not have to attend.
posted by clavdivs at 6:09 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
This would be a phenomenal course. Small writers' workshop courses are bar-none the best and fastest way to become a good writer. Getting feedback and commentary on your work from twelve other friendly people is more than you will ever get on anything else you write for the rest of your professional life, not even considering that one of your critics would be DFW. I am intensely jealous.
2008 though, that was the same semester I was taking my senior year expository writing workshop... *nostalgic gaze into the middle distance*
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 6:15 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
2008 though, that was the same semester I was taking my senior year expository writing workshop... *nostalgic gaze into the middle distance*
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 6:15 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Mandatory attendance" is lame. Just post your stupid lecture on teh interwebs and make the education customer just show up for exams.
Want to have discussions on the material? Make the exams ORAL.
I'll waive my usual consultant fee and just write it off my taxes. You're welcome.
posted by Renoroc at 6:17 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Want to have discussions on the material? Make the exams ORAL.
I'll waive my usual consultant fee and just write it off my taxes. You're welcome.
posted by Renoroc at 6:17 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
"you (or someone else) paid a handsome sum for it."
And for that sum one should have the right not to attend all the classes because of some profs' ego.
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
Workshops like this are neat but not demanding. IMO
posted by clavdivs at 6:19 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
And for that sum one should have the right not to attend all the classes because of some profs' ego.
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
Workshops like this are neat but not demanding. IMO
posted by clavdivs at 6:19 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
lol ok clavdivs. You do you man.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:21 PM on November 16, 2014 [15 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:21 PM on November 16, 2014 [15 favorites]
And for that sum one should have the right not to attend all the classes because of some profs' ego.
As he makes clear in the syllabus, part of learning to be a good writer is learning how to critique other's work. A large part of any creative writing class- at least the ones I've taken, and the one DFW's laid out- involves workshopping papers in class.
If half the class isn't there, that's not going to happen. You're ripping off the other students. The same concept can be applied to any other course with a heavy discussion component.
posted by damayanti at 6:26 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
As he makes clear in the syllabus, part of learning to be a good writer is learning how to critique other's work. A large part of any creative writing class- at least the ones I've taken, and the one DFW's laid out- involves workshopping papers in class.
If half the class isn't there, that's not going to happen. You're ripping off the other students. The same concept can be applied to any other course with a heavy discussion component.
posted by damayanti at 6:26 PM on November 16, 2014 [7 favorites]
I like DFW plenty, Broom of The System is one of my favorite comic novels, his essays are great, and I have shared "This is Water" with just about everyone I know, including my mom just a couple weeks ago. So. But this is, at best, just a kind of invitation to rub a fetish object. It looks like a great seminar, and I wish I could've taken it, but the syllabus itself is most definitely not "mind-blowing," and, frankly, it's not in keeping with DFW's own integrity to turn him into a kind of Upworthy-style clickbait (Salon).
posted by batfish at 6:45 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by batfish at 6:45 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
I kind of suspect that the folks wigging out about mandatory attendance went through college never having had a class that wasn't some ginormous impersonal lecture that might as well have been online.
Here's the thing-- you just can't teach writing effectively-- or learn enough to improve your own writing much--in a series of lectures with no opportunity for discussion.
posted by dersins at 6:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [9 favorites]
Here's the thing-- you just can't teach writing effectively-- or learn enough to improve your own writing much--in a series of lectures with no opportunity for discussion.
posted by dersins at 6:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [9 favorites]
Someone upthread was confused, so I thought I should clarify: DFW taught at Pomona College, not Cal Poly Pomona. The average class size is about fifteen.
(The largest class I took for my major had about twenty people.)
hey janey47, fellow alum!
posted by iktomi at 6:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
(The largest class I took for my major had about twenty people.)
hey janey47, fellow alum!
posted by iktomi at 6:59 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Read the following published essays: (1) Jo Ann Beard’s “Werner,” (2) Stephen Elliott’s “Where I Slept,” (3) George Orwell’s “Politics and the English Language,” (4) Donna Steiner’s “Cold.”
Read the following published essays(1) David Gessner’s “Learning to Surf,” (2) Kathryn Harrison’s “The Forest of Memory,” (3) Hester Kaplan’s “The Private Life of Skin,” (4) George Saunders’s “The Braindead Megaphone.”
I'm on it!
posted by storybored at 7:03 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
Read the following published essays(1) David Gessner’s “Learning to Surf,” (2) Kathryn Harrison’s “The Forest of Memory,” (3) Hester Kaplan’s “The Private Life of Skin,” (4) George Saunders’s “The Braindead Megaphone.”
I'm on it!
posted by storybored at 7:03 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
As he makes clear in the syllabus, part of learning to be a good writer is learning how to critique other's work. A large part of any creative writing class- at least the ones I've taken, and the one DFW's laid out- involves workshopping papers in class.
Exactly, and three times, it is *your* paper that they are criticizing. If you don't show up or submit the essay, you have wasted the other 11 class member's time, as well as the teacher. This isn't a class where a professor is teaching you something, it's a class where *everybody* is teaching something (and learning something) and every time you don't go, you rob them of that experience. Never mind what you missed, that's on you. You're taking 1/12th of the input they would have gotten away from them.
He makes this point clear to let you know that if you don't feel that coming to class every time is important when the professor states it is important, you should not take this class.
Which is reasonable for a workshopping class. Completely so. The reason that so many out-of-school writer's workshop programs take place in some odd place over several days is to make sure that everyone who attends attends every session.
Workshopping is a synergistic thing. The more active participants you have, the better the results are for everybody.
posted by eriko at 7:17 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
Exactly, and three times, it is *your* paper that they are criticizing. If you don't show up or submit the essay, you have wasted the other 11 class member's time, as well as the teacher. This isn't a class where a professor is teaching you something, it's a class where *everybody* is teaching something (and learning something) and every time you don't go, you rob them of that experience. Never mind what you missed, that's on you. You're taking 1/12th of the input they would have gotten away from them.
He makes this point clear to let you know that if you don't feel that coming to class every time is important when the professor states it is important, you should not take this class.
Which is reasonable for a workshopping class. Completely so. The reason that so many out-of-school writer's workshop programs take place in some odd place over several days is to make sure that everyone who attends attends every session.
Workshopping is a synergistic thing. The more active participants you have, the better the results are for everybody.
posted by eriko at 7:17 PM on November 16, 2014 [3 favorites]
And for that sum one should have the right not to attend all the classes because of some profs' ego.
This might be true for lecture-based classes where all you have to do is turn in some homework and pass some exams, but this is a discussion/workshop course.
The discussion/workshop is part of the work.
If you don't show up, it's just like not turning in your homework, except worse -- if you don't turn in your homework, the only person you're hurting is yourself. In a discussion/workshop class, you're also hurting fellow students.
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
If you mean to say that science courses don't require attendance or have workshops, then you're wrong. Many upper-level science courses do--there is discussion and even workshop components, as you help peers plan experiments, for example.
If you mean to say that creative writing classes aren't "real education" and should therefore not have such stringent requirements, ... well, what? Even if you grant that they're not "real education," and I don't, people who sign up for such a course want it to be useful, and to be useful, students have to engage in a critical, and challenging, way.
Either way, this idea that it's not real education is ridiculous. Learning to write is an essential part of becoming an academic. Creative non-fiction is a particular genre, but I can tell you in my experience teaching English comp, students learn so much about engaging critically with a topic that you're just taking for granted here. The skills that they focus on in classes like this are broadly applicable skills of a scholar.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
This might be true for lecture-based classes where all you have to do is turn in some homework and pass some exams, but this is a discussion/workshop course.
The discussion/workshop is part of the work.
If you don't show up, it's just like not turning in your homework, except worse -- if you don't turn in your homework, the only person you're hurting is yourself. In a discussion/workshop class, you're also hurting fellow students.
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
If you mean to say that science courses don't require attendance or have workshops, then you're wrong. Many upper-level science courses do--there is discussion and even workshop components, as you help peers plan experiments, for example.
If you mean to say that creative writing classes aren't "real education" and should therefore not have such stringent requirements, ... well, what? Even if you grant that they're not "real education," and I don't, people who sign up for such a course want it to be useful, and to be useful, students have to engage in a critical, and challenging, way.
Either way, this idea that it's not real education is ridiculous. Learning to write is an essential part of becoming an academic. Creative non-fiction is a particular genre, but I can tell you in my experience teaching English comp, students learn so much about engaging critically with a topic that you're just taking for granted here. The skills that they focus on in classes like this are broadly applicable skills of a scholar.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:48 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
People don't do scholarship anymore. Not easily enough reducible to a bottom line.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:55 PM on November 16, 2014
posted by saulgoodman at 7:55 PM on November 16, 2014
And for that sum one should have the right not to attend all the classes because of some profs' ego.
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
Nice slam on liberal arts there. That's not tacky as hell or anything.
posted by palomar at 8:13 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
Nice slam on liberal arts there. That's not tacky as hell or anything.
posted by palomar at 8:13 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
Of course this not apply to real education like science, medicine, etc.
Science and medicine are the biggest wastes of class time. You really need to attend a class going over rote memorization of anatomy and physiology?
Or how about verbal defense (mandatory because you better be there if they call on you) in medicine where you get to witness mental masturbation at its finest? "Jiblets, what is your diagnosis?" "Medulloblastoma" "Oh yeah, that feels so good, you're so fucking smart, tell me more..."
posted by jiblets at 8:27 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
Science and medicine are the biggest wastes of class time. You really need to attend a class going over rote memorization of anatomy and physiology?
Or how about verbal defense (mandatory because you better be there if they call on you) in medicine where you get to witness mental masturbation at its finest? "Jiblets, what is your diagnosis?" "Medulloblastoma" "Oh yeah, that feels so good, you're so fucking smart, tell me more..."
posted by jiblets at 8:27 PM on November 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
Tacky is telling
One to XX space
on the syllabus.
I'm so confused. You seem determined to dislike this syllabus and are coming up with reasons to dislike it that are common practice. Students like knowing what they're expected to do, and that includes how to format assignments. Some instructors put this in the syllabus (because formatting requirements are usually the same throughout the whole course).
Where are you getting this really weird idea that it's "tacky"?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:09 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
One to XX space
on the syllabus.
I'm so confused. You seem determined to dislike this syllabus and are coming up with reasons to dislike it that are common practice. Students like knowing what they're expected to do, and that includes how to format assignments. Some instructors put this in the syllabus (because formatting requirements are usually the same throughout the whole course).
Where are you getting this really weird idea that it's "tacky"?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:09 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Tacky as weird. Is weird. What is weird is reiterating Eng. 101-02 basics like xx space. That by itself is fine but to explain why in crisp detail is weird for a more advanced class. Just an opinion like how I disagree with rigid attendance that accounts for 20% of the grade regardless of what the student may lose in valuable feed-back that a tape recorder could provide.
I am not confused having aced classes with attending 15% of the time. But this was DFW. I assume if you got in, you would not miss a tick.
posted by clavdivs at 9:48 PM on November 16, 2014
I am not confused having aced classes with attending 15% of the time. But this was DFW. I assume if you got in, you would not miss a tick.
posted by clavdivs at 9:48 PM on November 16, 2014
Clavdivs is a teenage emperor folks, he's not expected to understand how humanities programs work, or anything else that isn't conquering Gaul &/or making his philosophers marry their horses on a whim.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:05 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:05 PM on November 16, 2014 [4 favorites]
to explain why in crisp detail is weird for a more advanced class
It's in a footnote. And how advanced is this workshop? I find no information on what criteria students had to meet to get in.
I am not confused having aced classes with attending 15% of the time.
Good for you, but I'm not sure what this has to do with a workshop/discussion class where a significant portion of the work is participation in workshops and discussions. If you miss that, you can't make it up. You're basically arguing that students shouldn't be required to do all of the assigned work of the course.
If you want to take a class where you can attend 15% of the time and still ace it, then don't take a class where part of your workload is scheduled and collaborative.
Having a firm attendance policy is just good pedagogical practice when participation is so crucial, anyway.
how humanities programs work
The weird thing is that it's not just the humanities that have classes with these policies, so it's hard to chalk it up to the strange snobbishness towards writing workshops not being "real education.: It's par for the course for many writing intensive courses, seminars, etc in the sciences and in the humanities...
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:14 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's in a footnote. And how advanced is this workshop? I find no information on what criteria students had to meet to get in.
I am not confused having aced classes with attending 15% of the time.
Good for you, but I'm not sure what this has to do with a workshop/discussion class where a significant portion of the work is participation in workshops and discussions. If you miss that, you can't make it up. You're basically arguing that students shouldn't be required to do all of the assigned work of the course.
If you want to take a class where you can attend 15% of the time and still ace it, then don't take a class where part of your workload is scheduled and collaborative.
Having a firm attendance policy is just good pedagogical practice when participation is so crucial, anyway.
how humanities programs work
The weird thing is that it's not just the humanities that have classes with these policies, so it's hard to chalk it up to the strange snobbishness towards writing workshops not being "real education.: It's par for the course for many writing intensive courses, seminars, etc in the sciences and in the humanities...
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:14 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Are there any documented testimonials of former students from this class? Would be great to hear how he was as a professor.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:19 PM on November 16, 2014
posted by ReeMonster at 10:19 PM on November 16, 2014
There are internal course reviews accessible to students from the period when he taught. No doubt they will resurface as a Salon piece in 2018.
Or, I could just... *dusts off his old student account*
From what I can see, the student testimonials don't seem to harbor any great insights. He was well-liked as a professor (one of the better rated ones in the department, modulo sampling error). It sounds like he was detail oriented (in a good way), and not as tough as the aforelinked syllabus portrays him. (But then, what professor follows through on all the threats in the syllabus?)
Relevant to previous comments here, an anonymous student wrote: "You'll feel like a total jerk if you slack off, plus you'll know that you're not learning as much."
posted by iktomi at 11:30 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Or, I could just... *dusts off his old student account*
From what I can see, the student testimonials don't seem to harbor any great insights. He was well-liked as a professor (one of the better rated ones in the department, modulo sampling error). It sounds like he was detail oriented (in a good way), and not as tough as the aforelinked syllabus portrays him. (But then, what professor follows through on all the threats in the syllabus?)
Relevant to previous comments here, an anonymous student wrote: "You'll feel like a total jerk if you slack off, plus you'll know that you're not learning as much."
posted by iktomi at 11:30 PM on November 16, 2014 [1 favorite]
Having a firm attendance policy is just good pedagogical practice when participation is so crucial, anyway.
OK, so I am a university teaching associate in the Arts and Humanities in the UK. When I was an undergrad, my 'contribution' to each module was scored and after three years the average of those scores became an additional mark, equal to a separate module. Attendance was not accounted for exactly, but a conspicuous series of absences did affect marks, because if you're not there you can't contribute.
I had a massive crisis in academic confidence in my second year, and like a lot of the undergraduates I teach now, that crisis manifested itself in a number of destructive and avoidant behaviours, including failing to read my set texts, repeated absences from seminars and lectures, and submitting sub-par essays written in a haze of panic, insomnia and Red Bull. By third year, however, I had a breakthrough when I realised that attending a two-hour seminar was something I was totally capable of. Then, because I started turning up again, I got to know my tutors and my peers, who helped me to formulate better arguments and I started submitting better essays. Moreover, I started to enjoy my degree again.
It breaks my heart now to see so many young people who I teach - smart, active, opinionated people - stifle themselves through low self-esteem, anxiety and perfectionism.
And the worst thing about the whole situation is that if these young people turned up to my seminars or to my office hours, I could tell them my advice as someone who has been there: just keep turning up. Keep talking to your peers and your tutors. Get out of your own head. Feel the rejuvenating power of critical discussion. If you're scared? Turn up - just observe at first, eventually a thought or opinion will escape your lips. If you're lazy? Turn up - it is the simplest, fastest way to get the most favourable treatment for the least effort. If you're bored? Well, if you think classes are boring then you wait until you write your dissertation.
posted by dumdidumdum at 3:04 AM on November 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
OK, so I am a university teaching associate in the Arts and Humanities in the UK. When I was an undergrad, my 'contribution' to each module was scored and after three years the average of those scores became an additional mark, equal to a separate module. Attendance was not accounted for exactly, but a conspicuous series of absences did affect marks, because if you're not there you can't contribute.
I had a massive crisis in academic confidence in my second year, and like a lot of the undergraduates I teach now, that crisis manifested itself in a number of destructive and avoidant behaviours, including failing to read my set texts, repeated absences from seminars and lectures, and submitting sub-par essays written in a haze of panic, insomnia and Red Bull. By third year, however, I had a breakthrough when I realised that attending a two-hour seminar was something I was totally capable of. Then, because I started turning up again, I got to know my tutors and my peers, who helped me to formulate better arguments and I started submitting better essays. Moreover, I started to enjoy my degree again.
It breaks my heart now to see so many young people who I teach - smart, active, opinionated people - stifle themselves through low self-esteem, anxiety and perfectionism.
And the worst thing about the whole situation is that if these young people turned up to my seminars or to my office hours, I could tell them my advice as someone who has been there: just keep turning up. Keep talking to your peers and your tutors. Get out of your own head. Feel the rejuvenating power of critical discussion. If you're scared? Turn up - just observe at first, eventually a thought or opinion will escape your lips. If you're lazy? Turn up - it is the simplest, fastest way to get the most favourable treatment for the least effort. If you're bored? Well, if you think classes are boring then you wait until you write your dissertation.
posted by dumdidumdum at 3:04 AM on November 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
I never got much out of peer analysis workshops. Generally, it went like this:
I don't mind mandatory attendance. Having been an adjunct, I am well aware that there are many students who think they can safely miss class who will then come up to you on the last day in tears because they've failed the exam. This is why I think it's wise to have a pragmatic attendance policy. Unlike DFW's policy (never miss anything!), give a little bit of wiggle-room. Something like "Three absences allowed, no questions asked; being late to class is half an absence. Beyond this number, each absence will lead to the reduction of your grade by one letter grade." This actually respects the students as adults, because it lays out exactly the parameters of behavior that you expect, without playing favorites with some few that you like while being hard-assed with the annoying kid who clearly thinks you're full of shit.
Be fair. Say what you mean. It applies to DFW as much as anyone else, even if he did wear an "I'm talented" bandana.
posted by sonic meat machine at 4:55 AM on November 17, 2014
- First draft to the teacher; few comments.
- First draft to peer reviewer; vast raft of comments mostly boiling down to "everything you do is horrible."
- First draft from peer: three pages shorter or longer than allotted essay length, with no apparent thesis or purpose.
- Second draft (exactly the same as the first) to another peer reviewer; vast raft of comments mostly boiling down to "everything you do is horrible." There is a misspelling in a comment on the third page.
- Second draft from peer: two pages shorter or longer than allotted essay length, with no apparent thesis or purpose.
- Final draft (exactly the same as the first) to the teacher; few comments. A.
I don't mind mandatory attendance. Having been an adjunct, I am well aware that there are many students who think they can safely miss class who will then come up to you on the last day in tears because they've failed the exam. This is why I think it's wise to have a pragmatic attendance policy. Unlike DFW's policy (never miss anything!), give a little bit of wiggle-room. Something like "Three absences allowed, no questions asked; being late to class is half an absence. Beyond this number, each absence will lead to the reduction of your grade by one letter grade." This actually respects the students as adults, because it lays out exactly the parameters of behavior that you expect, without playing favorites with some few that you like while being hard-assed with the annoying kid who clearly thinks you're full of shit.
Be fair. Say what you mean. It applies to DFW as much as anyone else, even if he did wear an "I'm talented" bandana.
posted by sonic meat machine at 4:55 AM on November 17, 2014
Some of you may be missing a few points on the attendance policy.
1) Pomona looks to be on a typical 16 week semester system. Which means you lose one week to the Intro class (what can you really do on the first day besides general discussion?). Lose one week to a final exam and probably lose a week to Thanksgiving (or other holiday). So, in a seminar like this you've got, at most, 14 sessions. This is not a MWF course were you've got 40 sessions and missing 2-3 is no big deal. Missing 2-3 is missing as mush as 20% of the course. That should come with a penalty.
2) Notice that it "will result in a lowered final grade" this ambiguity is purposeful he wants there to be a real consequence for pointless absences but wants to have leeway to be reasonable. (Also since he doesn't put grades on the papers he's going to have a lot of wiggle room.)
3) Being absent is a problem for the other students, not just the absent student. They need an audience and feedback. It's not fair to them to let you be absent a bunch of times. Have you ever been the last person to give a talk at a conference? It sucks (in a lot of ways) to realize that your audience is half what it would have been in the morning. This sort of seminar works best when there is a sense of community chronic absenteeism undermines that.
In short, there is a lot of thought that goes into a typical syllabus and rules are often over-determined by many good supporting reasons.
P.s. Does anyone fine it weird that the class starts at 7PM? (If it starts at 7AM he's got office hours at 6AM? That'd be unheard of.)
posted by oddman at 5:19 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) Pomona looks to be on a typical 16 week semester system. Which means you lose one week to the Intro class (what can you really do on the first day besides general discussion?). Lose one week to a final exam and probably lose a week to Thanksgiving (or other holiday). So, in a seminar like this you've got, at most, 14 sessions. This is not a MWF course were you've got 40 sessions and missing 2-3 is no big deal. Missing 2-3 is missing as mush as 20% of the course. That should come with a penalty.
2) Notice that it "will result in a lowered final grade" this ambiguity is purposeful he wants there to be a real consequence for pointless absences but wants to have leeway to be reasonable. (Also since he doesn't put grades on the papers he's going to have a lot of wiggle room.)
3) Being absent is a problem for the other students, not just the absent student. They need an audience and feedback. It's not fair to them to let you be absent a bunch of times. Have you ever been the last person to give a talk at a conference? It sucks (in a lot of ways) to realize that your audience is half what it would have been in the morning. This sort of seminar works best when there is a sense of community chronic absenteeism undermines that.
In short, there is a lot of thought that goes into a typical syllabus and rules are often over-determined by many good supporting reasons.
P.s. Does anyone fine it weird that the class starts at 7PM? (If it starts at 7AM he's got office hours at 6AM? That'd be unheard of.)
posted by oddman at 5:19 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Clavdivs is a teenage emperor folks, he's not expected to understand how humanities programs work, or anything else that isn't conquering Gaul &/or making his philosophers marry their horses on a whim.
Nooo, the real Claudius was a humanities nerd who wrote a history of the Etruscans! The favorite emperor of all historians!
posted by oinopaponton at 6:26 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Nooo, the real Claudius was a humanities nerd who wrote a history of the Etruscans! The favorite emperor of all historians!
posted by oinopaponton at 6:26 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
There will be no horse play with a dead mans syllabus.
posted by clavdivs at 6:41 AM on November 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:41 AM on November 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
Are there any documented testimonials of former students from this class? Would be great to hear how he was as a professor.
Not Pomono, but his gig at another college in 2008 -- RateMyProfessors. Expected mix of adulation and revenge pans.
posted by aught at 6:45 AM on November 17, 2014
Not Pomono, but his gig at another college in 2008 -- RateMyProfessors. Expected mix of adulation and revenge pans.
posted by aught at 6:45 AM on November 17, 2014
^ Pomona, ack. Edit window timed out.
Also, really, people are worked up about an attendance requirement? Skipping a writing class is the equivalent of giving the finger to your fellow apprentice-writers.
posted by aught at 6:54 AM on November 17, 2014
Also, really, people are worked up about an attendance requirement? Skipping a writing class is the equivalent of giving the finger to your fellow apprentice-writers.
posted by aught at 6:54 AM on November 17, 2014
I don't find it weird that it was an evening class, but I went to Pomona and they are not uncommon. Also there were a number of eloquent testimonials written shortly after his death by students who had had sufficient time to put into practice what they learned from him. I'll find a link when I'm at an actual keyboard.
posted by janey47 at 6:56 AM on November 17, 2014
posted by janey47 at 6:56 AM on November 17, 2014
Any mention of the "real" or "adult" world in a syllabus (or anywhere else, from anyone) got lots of eyerolling from me as a student as still does now. I didn't see much of a problem with the rest of it, though.
posted by geegollygosh at 7:28 AM on November 17, 2014
posted by geegollygosh at 7:28 AM on November 17, 2014
Does anyone fine it weird that the class starts at 7PM?
At the small college that I went to, it was not totally uncommon for seminar-style courses to start late in the evenings. I'm not exactly sure why that was, except that they didn't conflict with many other courses that way, and maybe it was also that they were taught by 'rockstar'-ish professors who got to decide when they were going to teach them and that was their preference. The other popular time for them was late mornings.
For the record, all the seminar type courses I ever took had mandatory attendance as well. Even ones in the hard sciences. (I took a really inadvisable 'deep dive' E&M class with about 7 other students and it was a nightmare. No joke, actual nightmares for about two semesters afterwards. But a substantial part of the grade was attendance and even though I was all sorts of bad at vector calculus, I could get my ass into a seat reliably.) There is, at least in my experience, almost always a sort of implied tradeoff when a professor makes attendance mandatory: if you show up and do the work, you will do reasonably well.
I mean, turn the grading rubric around: he's saying that to ace 20% of the final course grade, all you need to do is show the fuck up. College-student-me says that is a very good deal, nature of the course aside. And realistically you can probably get a "gentleman's C" with minimal effort if you were so inclined, although to do so in a course taught by DFW would be a crying shame.
Alacrity of Carriage
I read this as an semi-ironic euphemism for not being walking in late, and generally being ready to go when the clock says that the class starts, and not something about fake smiles.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:54 AM on November 17, 2014
At the small college that I went to, it was not totally uncommon for seminar-style courses to start late in the evenings. I'm not exactly sure why that was, except that they didn't conflict with many other courses that way, and maybe it was also that they were taught by 'rockstar'-ish professors who got to decide when they were going to teach them and that was their preference. The other popular time for them was late mornings.
For the record, all the seminar type courses I ever took had mandatory attendance as well. Even ones in the hard sciences. (I took a really inadvisable 'deep dive' E&M class with about 7 other students and it was a nightmare. No joke, actual nightmares for about two semesters afterwards. But a substantial part of the grade was attendance and even though I was all sorts of bad at vector calculus, I could get my ass into a seat reliably.) There is, at least in my experience, almost always a sort of implied tradeoff when a professor makes attendance mandatory: if you show up and do the work, you will do reasonably well.
I mean, turn the grading rubric around: he's saying that to ace 20% of the final course grade, all you need to do is show the fuck up. College-student-me says that is a very good deal, nature of the course aside. And realistically you can probably get a "gentleman's C" with minimal effort if you were so inclined, although to do so in a course taught by DFW would be a crying shame.
Alacrity of Carriage
I read this as an semi-ironic euphemism for not being walking in late, and generally being ready to go when the clock says that the class starts, and not something about fake smiles.
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:54 AM on November 17, 2014
I do know that I'd rather have his commentary than the other students'.
Getting good feedback isn't the sole purpose of peer review workshops--not really even the most important purpose, although it's good if it happens. It's really for the benefit of the reviewer; engaging critically with another's writing is an excellent way to develop your ability to engage critically with your own. If you're engaging with other students' writing that means it's more likely that you are (a) reading something that has the same purpose and requirements as your own work; (b) reading something that has similar strengths and weakness and overall skill as your own work.
In the program I'm teaching for this semester, we actually have students read an article about how peer review workshop is not for the benefit of the person being reviewed. And they get it, they really do. I still get requests to look at drafts, but normally before peer review day. By the time they've finished peer review day, they tend to have a really good sense of what they're going to do in their revisions, even if it's something none of their peers brought up.
(There is the cynical side as well, which is that you can require students to give much more in-depth feeedback on one or two rough drafts than you can require an instructor to for 12-20, at least not without significantly upping the instructor's hours.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:11 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Getting good feedback isn't the sole purpose of peer review workshops--not really even the most important purpose, although it's good if it happens. It's really for the benefit of the reviewer; engaging critically with another's writing is an excellent way to develop your ability to engage critically with your own. If you're engaging with other students' writing that means it's more likely that you are (a) reading something that has the same purpose and requirements as your own work; (b) reading something that has similar strengths and weakness and overall skill as your own work.
In the program I'm teaching for this semester, we actually have students read an article about how peer review workshop is not for the benefit of the person being reviewed. And they get it, they really do. I still get requests to look at drafts, but normally before peer review day. By the time they've finished peer review day, they tend to have a really good sense of what they're going to do in their revisions, even if it's something none of their peers brought up.
(There is the cynical side as well, which is that you can require students to give much more in-depth feeedback on one or two rough drafts than you can require an instructor to for 12-20, at least not without significantly upping the instructor's hours.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:11 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
I mean, turn the grading rubric around: he's saying that to ace 20% of the final course grade, all you need to do is show the fuck up.
My syllabus for the intro fiction course they sometimes let me teach is similarly tough wrt attendance, for the reasons noted above. Also, if you miss your "slot" -- when your work is to be read and critiqued -- you've fucked my calendar and everybody else's. Your excuse had better be impressive and convincing.
My syllabus for the English 100 course is a bit less tough wrt attendance (you get three unexcused), but I've built some carrots into the grading. Ten percent is attendance and participation, and another 10 percent is following the danged instructions and turning in formal essays with all assigned components (drafts, research notes, comments from peer edits), which works out to 20% for showing up and doing the minimum expected.
On intro day it's the final word on the rah-rah let's get motivated about this semester part of my first day of class talk -- 20% of your grade is there for the taking; don't leave those easy points behind.
Incidentally, at my university, scholar-athletes are not permitted many (any?) unexcused absences -- the Athletic Dept checks in a couple times during the semester.
posted by notyou at 8:14 AM on November 17, 2014
My syllabus for the intro fiction course they sometimes let me teach is similarly tough wrt attendance, for the reasons noted above. Also, if you miss your "slot" -- when your work is to be read and critiqued -- you've fucked my calendar and everybody else's. Your excuse had better be impressive and convincing.
My syllabus for the English 100 course is a bit less tough wrt attendance (you get three unexcused), but I've built some carrots into the grading. Ten percent is attendance and participation, and another 10 percent is following the danged instructions and turning in formal essays with all assigned components (drafts, research notes, comments from peer edits), which works out to 20% for showing up and doing the minimum expected.
On intro day it's the final word on the rah-rah let's get motivated about this semester part of my first day of class talk -- 20% of your grade is there for the taking; don't leave those easy points behind.
Incidentally, at my university, scholar-athletes are not permitted many (any?) unexcused absences -- the Athletic Dept checks in a couple times during the semester.
posted by notyou at 8:14 AM on November 17, 2014
(There is the cynical side as well, which is that you can require students to give much more in-depth feeedback on one or two rough drafts than you can require an instructor to for 12-20, at least not without significantly upping the instructor's hours.)
This is true for a course like Freshman Comp, which is a kind of hybrid between a seminar and a lecture, and in which all the essays are due on the same day. The teacher really doesn't have 15-20 minutes of time to spare for a big pile of 20-22 first drafts while also keeping the course moving forward.
For a workshop such as the one discussed here, the prof does have the time, as it is amortized over the calendar (three essays per week, in this case). It's also an opportunity for the prof to model effective critical reading and feedback, which is probably the most valuable skill workshops teach.
posted by notyou at 8:20 AM on November 17, 2014
This is true for a course like Freshman Comp, which is a kind of hybrid between a seminar and a lecture, and in which all the essays are due on the same day. The teacher really doesn't have 15-20 minutes of time to spare for a big pile of 20-22 first drafts while also keeping the course moving forward.
For a workshop such as the one discussed here, the prof does have the time, as it is amortized over the calendar (three essays per week, in this case). It's also an opportunity for the prof to model effective critical reading and feedback, which is probably the most valuable skill workshops teach.
posted by notyou at 8:20 AM on November 17, 2014
Here is a link to the Pomona College magazine tribute to DFW, with comments from former students and other people whose lives he touched.
posted by janey47 at 10:37 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 10:37 AM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't like mandatory attendance most of the time because well if being there is so important the grades should sort themselves out no? But a class like this is the exception because participating in discussion (which should probably be required apart from just showing up) *is* part of the work being evaluated - that's pretty intuitive to me.
posted by atoxyl at 1:02 PM on November 17, 2014
posted by atoxyl at 1:02 PM on November 17, 2014
Most agents, editors, and publications that accept writing submissions (in other words, the people who would determine whether these students could go on to make a living from writing) details the exact formatting they want in submissions. Some state that they won't look at incorrectly formatted submissions.
So even though including formatting details was totally ordinary for a writing-based humanities course, it was also a small but crucial bit of career training for the students.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 3:21 PM on November 17, 2014
So even though including formatting details was totally ordinary for a writing-based humanities course, it was also a small but crucial bit of career training for the students.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 3:21 PM on November 17, 2014
I haven't done this since I stopped accepting printed essays, but I used to require that my students submit their essays in Georgia (the font). There is a quirk in the way a capital "T" and lower-case "h" interact (the H's seraph is higher than the T's bar) which made it very easy to see who had followed the formatting instructions.
For the very first assignment, I would go through each paper, quickly and easily rejecting those that hadn't. It made quite the impression when I simply handed them back as unacceptable.
The students read every damn word of all instructions for the rest of the semester.
posted by oddman at 7:19 PM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
For the very first assignment, I would go through each paper, quickly and easily rejecting those that hadn't. It made quite the impression when I simply handed them back as unacceptable.
The students read every damn word of all instructions for the rest of the semester.
posted by oddman at 7:19 PM on November 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
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