"Work Therapy"

November 30, 2014 2:13 PM

Tampa homeless program uses unpaid, destitute residents as steady labor force, revenue source

TAMPA — Before every Tampa Bay Buccaneers home game, dozens of men gather in the yard at New Beginnings of Tampa, one of the city's largest homeless programs.

The men — many of them recovering alcoholics and drug addicts — are about to work a concessions stand behind Raymond James Stadium's iconic pirate ship, serving beer and food to football fans. First, a supervisor for New Beginnings tries to pump them up.

"Thank God we have these events," he tells them. "They bring in the prime finances."

But not for the workers. They leave the game sweat-soaked and as penniless as they arrived. The money for their labor goes to New Beginnings. The men receive only shelter and food.

For years, New Beginnings founder and CEO Tom Atchison has sent his unpaid homeless labor crews to Tampa Bay Rays, Lightning and Bucs games, the Daytona 500 and the Florida State Fair. For their shelter, he's had homeless people work in construction, landscaping, telemarketing, moving, painting, even grant-writing.

[...]

Now Atchison is applying to run Hillsborough County's new homeless shelter, a contract worth millions of public dollars that would entrust him with the county's most vulnerable people.

More coverage from Deadspin:

Reporter Will Hobson's investigation found the Bucs, Rays, Lightning, and Daytona 500 all employed labor from the New Beginnings ministry in a system the New Beginnings CEO calls "work therapy" but labor investigators call "indentured servitude." The money earned working the concession stands, the Times reports, goes directly to New Beginnings, which provides the men with shelter and food; in total, New Beginnings brought in $932,816 in income last year.

Most of the men are homeless, destitute, and drug or alcohol addicts. Workers told the Times that New Beginnings confiscated their Social Security checks and food stamps and that while the organization claims to provide counseling, it employs no one with training to treat drug addicts or the mentally ill. One of the organization's chief ministers cited as qualification that "he ran a motorcycle gang."

posted by tonycpsu (62 comments total)

Sounds perfectly Capitalist Christian to me. Expect to see it at most of the NFL stadiums next year.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:18 PM on November 30, 2014 [10 favorites]

I thought you guys banned slavery? Seem to remember something about that, some kinda war.
posted by Jimbob at 2:28 PM on November 30, 2014 [23 favorites]

I really would like to set this guy on fire with my brain.
posted by MissySedai at 2:28 PM on November 30, 2014 [42 favorites]

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:28 PM on November 30, 2014 [83 favorites]

Confiscating social security checks is an allowed thing?

Ah, this does allow me to see how a Guaranteed Basic Income will actually become a thing. It will turn out that you will be legally required to sign over those checks to conservative organizations if you are an addict, are homeless, or any of a myriad of "social ills". In exchange, they will make you slaves help you with your problem.

And, of course, if you commit a crime, you will have to pay for your incarceration out of your GBI. Plus your parole, and reparations.
posted by maxwelton at 2:29 PM on November 30, 2014 [18 favorites]

Gallows and guillotines.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:30 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]

"And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."
posted by zjacreman at 2:32 PM on November 30, 2014 [37 favorites]

The best trick played with this, is convincing broke students in unpaid internships skipping meals and shit that they aren't in the same boat as these homeless people and getting fucked the same way.

The rot exists far up the ladder in the system, but it's sold as being ~totally~ different. When in reality, it's all the same swindle and lie.

A very smooth divide and conquer played here. Right up there with dividing labor organization across racial lines.
posted by emptythought at 2:43 PM on November 30, 2014 [53 favorites]

Expect to see it at most of the NFL stadiums next year.

I don't know why we still allow professional sports in this country, but if we are going to subsidize the billions of dollars these teams make by giving them our tax dollars to build stadiums, use our airwaves, etc. we should attach a clear No-Slavery rider to this deal.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:44 PM on November 30, 2014 [35 favorites]

I thought you guys banned slavery? Seem to remember something about that, some kinda war.

Slavery is NOT BANNED in the United States.

It is explicitly still allowed for convicts.

So keep that in mind. The United States is still a slaver nation.
posted by srboisvert at 2:48 PM on November 30, 2014 [56 favorites]

I'll echo the general sentiment equating this person with some kind of Dickens villain. If you have to say "this sounds a bit bad" when describing the principles underpinning your organization's operation, you should probably be rethinking those principles, especially when they're based on the assertion -- right there in the same sentence! -- that human beings are the "property" of the organization.

(Also, the article is a veritable Litany of Probable Sleaze, in addition to the whole, uhm, slavery business. My legally ignorant eye counts numerous different "white-collar crime"-type investigations that should probably be going on.)
posted by busted_crayons at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]

Wow.

I feel so so much better about my lame-assed homeless blog, where I generally try to encourage people to take care of themselves and stay out of the shelters while taking advantage of any programs they need that do not try to turn them completely into the program's bitch.

It makes me wonder if I need to be more vociferous about that last point: That, above all, homeless people need agency and any program that tries to take your agency is one you should walk away from while you still can.
posted by Michele in California at 3:03 PM on November 30, 2014 [29 favorites]

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

"And the football stadiums?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"

posted by No-sword at 3:07 PM on November 30, 2014 [59 favorites]

Confiscating social security checks is an allowed thing?

it's called designating a representative payee - the client must agree to it or be found by a court to be unable to handle their own money - it's the payee's job to handle that money for that client, including paying the guardian/family member/home manager x amount of month for room and board

a registered facility in michigan has a lot of guidelines to follow and the amount of charge for room/board is set in stone - if the representative payee is a non profit social agency - often a social case manager from another non profit participates, making sure everything is right and the client's needs are being met

i have no idea how it works in florida - or whether a homeless shelter can qualify as a residential facility under those rules, but in a way, it doesn't matter as anyone who doesn't have a criminal record can qualify - the paperwork is minimal and SSA audits every 2 or 3 years - it's my understanding the audit is not very demanding, although, believe me, anytime you deal with SSA, you're running the potential of mystifying bureaucratic decisions by people who are hard to reach

i can, by getting my daughter's permission, become her representative payee with a few meetings and some minimal paperwork

and i'm sure the same would go for a preacher at a homeless shelter or anyone who wishes to "take care of" someone on SS disability or SSI - or at least "take care of" their money

yes, it's very possible he says, "if you want to stay here long term, i'll need to be your representative payee"

(this in no way should be considered a defense of this pastor who seems to be fleecing his sheep - a lot of people, including me 6 months ago, have no idea how the system works - or doesn't)
posted by pyramid termite at 3:08 PM on November 30, 2014 [11 favorites]

You can't say it's not a great American tradition.
posted by The Whelk at 3:10 PM on November 30, 2014 [8 favorites]

When they come in the program — this sounds a bit bad — they become our property to help us help them become new people," said Anthony Raburn, a minister who works with Atchison. "There are expenses that go along with that."

I hope that winds up in court as evidence they are engaging in slavery.
posted by Michele in California at 3:15 PM on November 30, 2014 [33 favorites]

>I thought you guys banned slavery? Seem to remember something about that, some kinda war.
>It is explicitly still allowed for convicts.

You guys are confusing slavery with capitalism.

I don't blame you. It's an easy mistake to make.
posted by clarknova at 3:24 PM on November 30, 2014 [15 favorites]

Nope. Thirteenth Amendment:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation

posted by Small Dollar at 3:27 PM on November 30, 2014 [7 favorites]

I hope that winds up in court as evidence they are engaging in slavery.

It's Florida. Most likely you're looking at the district's next congressman.
posted by happyroach at 3:29 PM on November 30, 2014 [15 favorites]

"And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves, to bringeth in the PRIME FINANCES."
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:30 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]

I boo this entire concept.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
posted by Spatch at 3:33 PM on November 30, 2014 [5 favorites]

something just occurred to me - what kind of idiot thinks it's useful or wise for a drug addict or alcoholic to serve beer at a football stadium?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:33 PM on November 30, 2014 [16 favorites]

pyramid termite: They're required to get drug/alcohol testing in order to stay, so one imagines that if they slip up while they're slinging brews, they are summarily kicked out.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 3:39 PM on November 30, 2014

The other teams just need to promote their concession stand labor force as "drug and alcohol free," charge a premium, and let the market decide.
posted by cjorgensen at 3:45 PM on November 30, 2014

It's Florida. Most likely you're looking at the district's next congressman.

I'm sure the FL republican party is tapping him to be our next governor.

This story is in my backyard and I'm not surprised in the slightest. A year ago the Times did some digging into the head of the port in Tampa who was a big-time republican fundraiser and found out he was receiving money from the county to house homeless and indigent people and the housing he was renting out amounted to some sheds behind a commercial building he owned. Everyday there is a new shocking story about the malfeasance of the republican moneyed class here in FL and nothing ever changes. It would be funny if it wasn't so soul-crushingly sad.
posted by photoslob at 3:46 PM on November 30, 2014 [20 favorites]

well NOW I feel better
posted by koeselitz at 3:47 PM on November 30, 2014

Are we sure P.T. stands for Pastor Tom? This guy is flat out pimping people with substance abuse problems.
posted by cmfletcher at 3:51 PM on November 30, 2014

They're required to get drug/alcohol testing in order to stay, so one imagines that if they slip up while they're slinging brews, they are summarily kicked out.

yes, but why should they be subjected to that sort of temptation at all?

it's a common theme in recovery that one should avoid triggers - people who use/drink, places where using or drinking is done, and yes, that would include concession stands that sell beer

it's utterly irresponsible of this program to be allowing that - no, requiring it
posted by pyramid termite at 3:52 PM on November 30, 2014 [30 favorites]

There's a reason why I moved far far away from Tampa as soon as I was able, and this is representative of it. This country is a disaster.
posted by dis_integration at 3:52 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]

Looks like here's a team Ray Rice could play for without bringing their image down.
posted by cjorgensen at 3:54 PM on November 30, 2014 [6 favorites]

This is probably the best time of the year to get a discount on pitchforks. Just sayin'.
posted by uosuaq at 4:01 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]

That, above all, homeless people need agency and any program that tries to take your agency is one you should walk away from while you still can.

Sounds like a good addition to Charity Navigator, but something tells me they aren't going to be tackling that piece of measurable data.
posted by rhizome at 4:13 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]

Volunteers at the Jehovah's Witness factories also receive no salary, just a minimal monthly stipend of about $200, according to this link. May be a different situation since they are technically all ordained ministers who take a vow of poverty.

Also, not sure if certain exemptions to the FLSA apply or not, particularly the exemption for "any employee employed by an establishment which is an amusement or recreational establishment."

I seem to recall someone I knew being employed at Disney World (also in Florida!) and getting paid something far less than minimum wage.
posted by xigxag at 4:19 PM on November 30, 2014

something just occurred to me - what kind of idiot thinks it's useful or wise for a drug addict or alcoholic to serve beer at a football stadium?

They don't actually care about the welfare of the people they're supposedly helping. It's about profit. Neoliberals monetizing the fabric of society, dissecting everything -- even abject poverty -- to squeeze wealth out of the public and concentrate it in the hands of plutocrats.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:41 PM on November 30, 2014 [10 favorites]

Soylent Green is people!
posted by goatdog at 4:44 PM on November 30, 2014

This is sadly very typical of "treatment" for people with addictions. it's a great scam: tell them that the best treatment is AA, one addict helping another, and then *charge* them as though you are providing therapy led by MD's at psychiatric hospital rates. Make them do "work therapy" and it's even better, more profit.

Say you are religious and you can also avoid those pesky health regulations. In Florida, there are particularly shoddy standards for "religious" programs for kids.

This is one reason why I believe 12 step programs have no place in professional treatment: sure, refer to them for additional support for those who like this approach, but as soon as you say that it is "evidence based treatment" you basically enable these people to get insurers and taxpayers to fund what you can get for free at almost any church basement when what they should fund is care like you'd get for any other medical condition, which does not generally involve prayer, meeting and service to others (some of whom profit from your service).
posted by Maias at 4:51 PM on November 30, 2014 [15 favorites]

Mmm, mmm. With the moldy bread of Florida, the rotten tomato of pro football, the wilted lettuce of Christian "charity" and the rancid bacon of making money from the misery of others, this is pretty much the perfect American Shit Sandwich.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 4:54 PM on November 30, 2014 [28 favorites]

Well, this'll show all those people who said that only rich kids can afford to take unpaid internships.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:57 PM on November 30, 2014 [10 favorites]

My partner actually works at a work therapy program, and I thought they might find this interesting. After the apoplectic rage had passed, they wanted to pass this on:

"I work for a work therapy program. I am one of several staff members and we have approximately fifty participants recovering from mental illness and addictions issues. Some of our participants are in longterm homeless shelters, others get paroled from their inpatient programs at a local psychiatric care facility to come to us. We run a lunch counter where food is served to the public and our participants learn job skills such as food preparation, following detailed lists of instructions, teamwork, how to handle constructive criticism and how to serve the public, along with many other things.

Most, but not all, of our participants are on a long-term disability benefits program. Nearly all are on some form of social assistance. Because of this, we are unable to pay them. If we paid them, they would lose their benefits or large portions of their benefits and many of them are not ready to work regular hours longterm as they would need to in order to do without their benefits. In most cases, we are able to write their caseworkers in order to get them an extra sum of money on their monthly check as a travel allowance, among other things. We will do anything we can to help them get this money, but we cannot pay them directly.

For this reason, we absolutely cannot turn a profit. Any profit that is made above and beyond our operating costs is reinvested into the program or spent on our participants at our appreciation parties. We have 'prizes' for our participants at these parties which are actually bought out of any profit we've made. I've seen things like gift cards for restaurants and winter coats given to our participants to help them get through the cold winter where we live, at these parties. We cannot give them money, so we give them things to make their lives easier and better instead.

Our manager works in close concert with our participants' caseworkers to ensure that behavioural issues are addressed promptly and that we have a handle on how to deal with various issues that are being dealt with. We make sure to treat our participants with respect--they are never, never a cash cow. They get healthy meals from us and are able to take home any leftovers, as another way for us to get around the 'we can't pay them' rule given by our government. Sometimes people go home with enough food to eat for a couple of days without buying anything more.

We work hard to make sure that every moment of their time spent with us is giving them job skills in a safe, supportive environment. We would never put them in a concessions stand where they are being asked to serve alcohol to a rowdy crowd, for example. There is always a staff member nearby when they have any communications with a member of the public so that if the member of the public causes any problems, we can step in and protect our participants from having to deal with irate customers. That cannot possibly be so at a beer stand. Why would you ever put recovering alcoholics at a concession stand that sells beer? That's like forcing a man dying of thirst to pump water without giving him a drop.

It's cruel. I am disgusted by the people in this article. As far as I can tell in the state of Florida, these people are not restricted from receiving their benefits and being paid a small sum of money for their work as our participants are, so why aren't they being paid? Why are they not permitted to have their own money in their pockets? If it's unsafe for them to carry it for reasons of addiction, why is it not instantaneously available to them if they ask for it? Why is a man running a homeless shelter where I assume residents are not getting much more private space than a bed or at best a room to themselves, only two hundred dollars a month less than he himself pays for his own home?

I am disgusted by these people. This isn't work therapy. This is slavery."
posted by sciatrix at 5:00 PM on November 30, 2014 [81 favorites]

Depositing someone else's SS check? Illegal unless you've been officially designated as a payee.

Remember that farmer a decade or two ago who hired a bunch of retired people to live in and do light work on his big farm, only it turned out he'd actually murdered a fair number of them and kept collecting their SS checks for years after that?

What would you bet that -- through a mere bookkeeping oversight, of course! -- some deaths in that aged, sick and fragile population New Beginnings deals in weren't reported to the Social Security Administration in what an outside observer might consider to be exactly a timely manner?
posted by jamjam at 5:02 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]

This is about humiliating people and making them suffer, so that narcissists can feel better about themselves.
posted by wuwei at 5:08 PM on November 30, 2014 [5 favorites]

"When they come in the program — this sounds a bit bad — they become our property to help us help them become new people," said Anthony Raburn, a minister who works with Atchison. "There are expenses that go along with that."

It doesn't sound "a bit bad" you heartless fucker. It sounds criminally, monstrously bad.

But oh, Florida. I live in Texas, it's not like I can get on my high horse, but..yeah. Florida. Lotta bad stories out of there. Some days I think maybe things will be better once the oceans rise and there isn't much left of it, but fuckers like this will be the first ones out, screwing anyone they can all along the way.

(Texas I expect to dry up and blow away. Our rich people will be gone by then too.)
posted by emjaybee at 5:10 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]

tell them that the best treatment is AA, one addict helping another, and then *charge* them as though you are providing therapy

I'm sorry, since when does AA charge more than a voluntary few coins to pay for the instant coffee?
posted by Jimbob at 5:11 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]

what kind of idiot thinks it's useful or wise for a drug addict or alcoholic to serve beer at a football stadium?

The same kind of idiot who presumes to know how to help people with substance abuse problems while claiming never to have used any substances himself? The article says: "The son of a Pentecostal preacher, Atchison called his upbringing strict. He said he has never sipped alcohol or used an illicit drug.".

I'm not claiming that only people who have had issues with substances can empathise with those so afflicted, but it's fairly rare for someone with a nonjudgemental and realistic attitude toward people who use drugs -- a necessary condition for helpfulness in this context, one would think -- to trumpet the fact that they've never consumed so much as a drop of alcohol.
posted by busted_crayons at 5:15 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]

Jimbob, AA doesn't charge— but this program in the article basically charges the government for "treating" people with nothing more than AA. AA is all the "therapy" they get here, other than jobs serving booze at stadiums, which are unlikely to be therapeutic, as noted above.

The Minnesota Model programs like Hazelden and Bettty Ford (at least 90% of all 28 day rehabs basically and a similar percentage of intensive outpatient) also charge large sums of money to provide what historically has been little more than meetings all day, lectures about 12 step principles and "therapy groups" led by counselors in 12-step recovery (not doctors) where addicts talk more about 12 step stuff. Many of these programs now have added real therapies like cognitive behavioral and motivational interviewing, but a large part of their schedule is still taken up with indoctrinating people into the 12 steps and therefore, violates the 12 traditions by having people get paid to do 12th step work.
posted by Maias at 5:24 PM on November 30, 2014 [8 favorites]

Jesus this is terrible. Sounds a lot like New Path from A Scanner Darkly, right down to making money providing the intoxicant they're supposedly helping people get clean from. It could only be worse if they were renting their labor out to local distilleries and breweries (not to give them any ideas).
posted by dialetheia at 6:44 PM on November 30, 2014 [4 favorites]

Privatization of social services invites people who realize that there is money to be made, and the easiest way to make money is find a possible revenue stream, cut expenses to the bone, and keep what's left. "Halfway houses" become "opportunities" for private entrepreneurs to collect disability checks of residents, deduct "expenses", and then give them an allowance. Even better if you can cut expenses by getting residents to provide maintenance services for cut rates.
posted by deanc at 8:56 PM on November 30, 2014 [6 favorites]

This is actually making me physically ill. Please someone tell me there are laws being broken here so this vicious little scumbag can be locked up.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:09 PM on November 30, 2014 [3 favorites]

When I'm dictator, people who advocate for the privatization of government services will be sold to the asshole in the article.
posted by maxwelton at 10:38 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]

The vileness of some people never fails to amaze me.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 11:29 PM on November 30, 2014 [2 favorites]

The only good news in this whole sorry debacle is that Will Hobson and The Tampa Bay Times are on the case. Hobson apparently cares about the powerful exploiting the homeless and is unlikely to just let this go. Even if he wins another Pulitzer next year for his reporting on this story.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:53 AM on December 1, 2014 [5 favorites]

I am going to offer a few angles on this, having worked with an organization that received "an offer" from an NFL team, to "fund raise" by sending "volunteers" to perform various acts of labor for about 12 hours during a football game.

This program is couched as a benefit to the non profit community. "Hey there...you have no money, right? Well, if you have volunteers...send them to us at 8 AM on Sunday and they will help the team! We will make a donation equivalent to x% of our food/beverage sales to your organization." Note: this approach was used more than 10 years ago and everyone has become much more cynical since then.

The number of underfunded programs is extraordinary. Non profits need dollars to continue. So, sadly...this will be considered rather than tossed in the trash-heap where it belongs.

It should be noted that non-profits can lose their exemption, if they are found by the state's attorney general, to be operating outside of their mission. Meaning: they are exploiting their status as a non profit in order to make money. Additionally, if the attorney general of Florida does nothing...well..nothing will happen.

This is the grey area of non-profit law that allows political crap to take place and that the far right have figured out...is WIDELY UNREGULATED!!!! THEY OPERATE HERE, POLITICALLY AND OTHERWISE, WITHOUT OVERSIGHT.

Thank you for posting. I am sharing this with some people who might be able to have an impact on the situation.
posted by zerobyproxy at 5:54 AM on December 1, 2014 [9 favorites]

I'm with feckless fecal fear mongering. Reading this makes me feel sick to my stomach. Is there anything a non-Florida resident can do to help, other than spread the word that this is happening?
posted by Librarypt at 8:01 AM on December 1, 2014

the client must agree to it or be found by a court to be unable to handle their own money - it's the payee's job to handle that money for that client,

Doesn't that mean he's a professional fiduciary? It seems like the slightest digging would expose him as violating basic fiduciary standards.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:27 AM on December 1, 2014

To Atchison, questions about his doctorate are irrelevant. No New Beginnings employee has a college or graduate degree in a field related to counseling addicts or the mentally ill.

"There's really no class that teaches you how to deal with what we've got here," he said.

i can't even think over the incoherent rage screaming inside my head right now, wow
posted by poffin boffin at 10:15 AM on December 1, 2014 [4 favorites]

The number of underfunded programs is extraordinary. Non profits need dollars to continue. So, sadly...this will be considered rather than tossed in the trash-heap where it belongs.

To be sure, there is a such thing as a superfluous non-profit. Better ones like this die an ignominious death so that those that don't exploit are better able to survive. I'm guessing the people who run this shitshow aren't themselves volunteering without compensation, hint hint.
posted by rhizome at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2014

"There's really no class that teaches you how to deal with what we've got here," he said.

He's right, though: pimping has been soundly ignored by the academe.
posted by rhizome at 10:33 AM on December 1, 2014 [1 favorite]

This is some greasy doings.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:48 AM on December 1, 2014 [2 favorites]

rhizome: I'm guessing the people who run this shitshow aren't themselves volunteering without compensation, hint hint.

Oh, of course not. Atchison deserves it don't you know.

New Beginnings is one of three agencies applying to run Hillsborough County's proposed homeless shelter, a contract potentially worth $1.6 million annually. The competition includes the Salvation Army and DACCO, a facility that treats people with substance abuse problems and mental illness.

If New Beginnings gets the shelter contract, and some other grants, Atchison wants to increase his salary.

"I should be making $100,000-plus a year," he said. "And not apologizing for it. I deserve it."

posted by ob1quixote at 12:16 PM on December 1, 2014 [5 favorites]

Hillsborough Commissioner Beckner calls for investigation of 'legal human trafficking' at homeless charity
posted by tonycpsu at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2014 [1 favorite]

Reading that story, I'm not sure the word "legal" ought to be included there.
posted by rhizome at 1:38 PM on December 2, 2014

This is stealth privatization of government services. Simple as that.
posted by wuwei at 7:38 PM on December 2, 2014