A sad-beautiful tale
February 2, 2015 10:59 AM Subscribe
This lead me to look at other very old businesses. Japan does very well in this regard. The oldest company in the world is construction company Kongō Gumi, or, at least, was until it was absorbed into Takamatsu in 2006. It was 1,400 years old.
Second oldest after that, and longest independently run: Nishiyama Onsen Keiunkan hotel, which was founded in 705AD and had been run by one family for 52 generations.
posted by maxsparber at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Second oldest after that, and longest independently run: Nishiyama Onsen Keiunkan hotel, which was founded in 705AD and had been run by one family for 52 generations.
posted by maxsparber at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Imagine the pressure you'd feel being in charge of one of these businesses; you really, really wouldn't want to be the person who ran it into the ground after over 1000 years.
(UNLESS YOU WERE GOING GALT!!!!1!!1!!)
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on February 2, 2015
(UNLESS YOU WERE GOING GALT!!!!1!!1!!)
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:29 AM on February 2, 2015
Their website seems to be pretty old too:
Please use Netscape Navigator and the Shockwave plug-in to see this site in its full majesty.
Snark aside, I ended up staying at an onsen hotel not too far from here over the holidays. If I had known about this one it may have changed the decision (although the one we stayed at had co-ed outdoor baths and was right beside a 2,000 year old tree so it was pretty good too).
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Please use Netscape Navigator and the Shockwave plug-in to see this site in its full majesty.
Snark aside, I ended up staying at an onsen hotel not too far from here over the holidays. If I had known about this one it may have changed the decision (although the one we stayed at had co-ed outdoor baths and was right beside a 2,000 year old tree so it was pretty good too).
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:32 AM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Some of this has to do with the tradition of adult adoption in Japan. So you could adopt in the next heir to the business (or commonly, marry your daughter to him, then adopt him into your family so he now had your family name and status).
That definitely makes it easier to keep a 1000+ year family line.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:34 AM on February 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
That definitely makes it easier to keep a 1000+ year family line.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:34 AM on February 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
But dad, I wanna be a dancer!
posted by Navelgazer at 11:35 AM on February 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 11:35 AM on February 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Please use Netscape Navigator and the Shockwave plug-in to see this site in its full majesty.
Using Shockwave's pretty bad, but it could be worse.
At least they didn't build the site on ColdFusion.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
Using Shockwave's pretty bad, but it could be worse.
At least they didn't build the site on ColdFusion.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
I thought it was a gorgeous video and very well told story. It was interesting to see the differences in cultures with regards to the things she would say to her now deceased brother (if she could) and the family dynamic. Very nicely presented.
posted by msbutah at 11:59 AM on February 2, 2015
posted by msbutah at 11:59 AM on February 2, 2015
ColdFusion: a JRUN error that will last a 1000 years!
posted by blue_beetle at 12:12 PM on February 2, 2015
posted by blue_beetle at 12:12 PM on February 2, 2015
The oldest company in the world is construction company Kongō Gumi
Bloomberg describes that as a family owned company as well, so the Japanese are apparently damn good at avoiding the usual pattern when things collapse after 2-3 generations ("förvärva, ärva, fördärva" as it's known in Swedish).
The oldest corporation owned by shareholders that's still in operation is generally considered to be the Swedish mining company Stora Kopparberg, where the earliest preserved share is dated June 1288, but the mining operation itself predates that with some 250-300 years.
(Not sure it counts, though -- the original mine closed some years ago, even if they're still producing red paint there from the tailings, and plan to do so for another 100 years or so before they need to dig up some more ore. The company itself is mostly into forestry products, after some merges.)
posted by effbot at 12:23 PM on February 2, 2015
Bloomberg describes that as a family owned company as well, so the Japanese are apparently damn good at avoiding the usual pattern when things collapse after 2-3 generations ("förvärva, ärva, fördärva" as it's known in Swedish).
The oldest corporation owned by shareholders that's still in operation is generally considered to be the Swedish mining company Stora Kopparberg, where the earliest preserved share is dated June 1288, but the mining operation itself predates that with some 250-300 years.
(Not sure it counts, though -- the original mine closed some years ago, even if they're still producing red paint there from the tailings, and plan to do so for another 100 years or so before they need to dig up some more ore. The company itself is mostly into forestry products, after some merges.)
posted by effbot at 12:23 PM on February 2, 2015
One thing that I don't understand from the video summary:
posted by clawsoon at 12:45 PM on February 2, 2015
Until 2011, it held the record for being the oldest hotel in the world.What happened? Was it destroyed? Was an older hotel found? Or is this a mistranslation?
posted by clawsoon at 12:45 PM on February 2, 2015
What happened? Was it destroyed? Was an older hotel found? Or is this a mistranslation?
Older hotel was found. Current record-holder is Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan (705 AD) in Yamanashi (Japan).
posted by thefoxgod at 12:53 PM on February 2, 2015
Older hotel was found. Current record-holder is Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan (705 AD) in Yamanashi (Japan).
posted by thefoxgod at 12:53 PM on February 2, 2015
Does the Catholic Church qualify as a business?
posted by Thorzdad at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I love the idea of a business that's more than a thousand years old and still a going concern. Or just things more than a thousand years old in general. I was watching a Begin Japanology episode about used book stores in Japan the other day. One one point the host goes into a book shop and the proprietor pulls out a little scroll from one of the the "Million Pagodas". The scroll was printed in 770, but it's for sale in a Japanese used book shop.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does the Catholic Church qualify as a business?
They don't pay taxes.
So no.
posted by el io at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
They don't pay taxes.
So no.
posted by el io at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
(cue snarky comments about how many other organizations commonly considered businesses that rules out.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:00 PM on February 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:00 PM on February 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ob1quixote, the million pagodas scroll at a used book shop is akin to finding a copy of Beowulf on Amazon. Neat (especially since that's the oldest surviving printed material in the world) but not noteworthy unless it's an original. In that case, it'd belong in a climate-controlled display case at a museum.
Also, hey, Awazu Onsen! Hokuriku love!
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, hey, Awazu Onsen! Hokuriku love!
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
This lead me to look at other very old businesses. Japan does very well in this regard.
ehhh, if hereditary aristocracy or a caste system is "doing well"; personally I prefer a society where there isn't huge social pressure to subsume individual interests to the continuation of the family business.
posted by indubitable at 3:49 PM on February 2, 2015
ehhh, if hereditary aristocracy or a caste system is "doing well"; personally I prefer a society where there isn't huge social pressure to subsume individual interests to the continuation of the family business.
posted by indubitable at 3:49 PM on February 2, 2015
ehhh, if hereditary aristocracy or a caste system is "doing well"; personally I prefer a society where there isn't huge social pressure to subsume individual interests to the continuation of the family business.
I agree with thefoxgod that adult adoption is a large part of what keeps the "lineage" going, so it would be curious to go down the line of onsen innkeepers and figure out their actual familial ancestry to see just how much of it is hereditary and how much of it was via adult adoption.
posted by linux at 5:02 PM on February 2, 2015
I agree with thefoxgod that adult adoption is a large part of what keeps the "lineage" going, so it would be curious to go down the line of onsen innkeepers and figure out their actual familial ancestry to see just how much of it is hereditary and how much of it was via adult adoption.
posted by linux at 5:02 PM on February 2, 2015
DoctorFedora: “Ob1quixote, the million pagodas scroll at a used book shop is akin to finding a copy of Beowulf on Amazon. Neat (especially since that's the oldest surviving printed material in the world) but not noteworthy unless it's an original. In that case, it'd belong in a climate-controlled display case at a museum.”If you watch the two minutes of the program where it is discussed, the shopkeeper certainly seems to indicate that the pagoda with the scroll inside that he takes out of the safe is a genuine eighth century artifact.
posted by ob1quixote at 5:12 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hahnemühle Paper has been in business since the 1500's and Albrecht Dürer used their products. I thought the Chinese invented printing, are the pagodas Chinese? Anyway it soothes me to see these ancient enterprises.
posted by Oyéah at 6:13 PM on February 2, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 6:13 PM on February 2, 2015
The top comment on this Hacker News thread about the same video is the filmmaker himself, discussing the daughter and the process of filming.
posted by fatbird at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fatbird at 6:48 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find it interesting that so many of the comments here are about the age of the business. Perhaps the quote I grabbed led it that way.
To me, I was struck by the sadness of the owners and their daughter. As if a weight of 1000 years was upon them. Here they are in a truly beautiful setting, and yet they are "stuck" in a way. The daughter "I cry"... The father "family sacrifice".... "My wife does what I tell her".
When I started watching it, my opinion might have been "how lucky they are to have this as their world." By the end I'm thinking I'd like to visit... But not own the place.
posted by ecorrocio at 6:49 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
To me, I was struck by the sadness of the owners and their daughter. As if a weight of 1000 years was upon them. Here they are in a truly beautiful setting, and yet they are "stuck" in a way. The daughter "I cry"... The father "family sacrifice".... "My wife does what I tell her".
When I started watching it, my opinion might have been "how lucky they are to have this as their world." By the end I'm thinking I'd like to visit... But not own the place.
posted by ecorrocio at 6:49 PM on February 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh! And great comments all. No slight intended by my quip about comments concerning the age of the place.
posted by ecorrocio at 6:53 PM on February 2, 2015
posted by ecorrocio at 6:53 PM on February 2, 2015
The daughter "I cry"
The filmmaker clarifies this later. He visited twice, six weeks apart. The anguish the daughter feels is from the first visit, when she'd just been dropped into the situation and was overwhelmed; by the second, she was apparently much happier about the situation.
posted by fatbird at 6:59 PM on February 2, 2015
The filmmaker clarifies this later. He visited twice, six weeks apart. The anguish the daughter feels is from the first visit, when she'd just been dropped into the situation and was overwhelmed; by the second, she was apparently much happier about the situation.
posted by fatbird at 6:59 PM on February 2, 2015
Wow, thanks for that Hacker news thread. I think the coolest aspect of this story is that their daughter may be the first woman to get the name Zengoro from her father. This makes the story more about a family's struggle in possibly breaking tradition to preserve tradition. The pressure on the daughter must be enormous. While I don't think even a thousand year old business is worth giving up one's own ambitions for, I can certainly understand how the sense of familial duty might be strong enough a reason.
posted by Mister Cheese at 9:05 PM on February 2, 2015
posted by Mister Cheese at 9:05 PM on February 2, 2015
DoctorFedora: “Ob1quixote, the million pagodas scroll at a used book shop is akin to finding a copy of Beowulf on Amazon. Neat (especially since that's the oldest surviving printed material in the world) but not noteworthy unless it's an original. In that case, it'd belong in a climate-controlled display case at a museum.”
obi1quixote: If you watch the two minutes of the program where it is discussed , the shopkeeper certainly seems to indicate that the pagoda with the scroll inside that he takes out of the safe is a genuine eighth century artifact.
Well… awesome! in other news this egg on my face feels weird and goopy
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:30 PM on February 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
obi1quixote: If you watch the two minutes of the program where it is discussed , the shopkeeper certainly seems to indicate that the pagoda with the scroll inside that he takes out of the safe is a genuine eighth century artifact.
Well… awesome! in other news this egg on my face feels weird and goopy
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:30 PM on February 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
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