Shoegazers in their own words
February 13, 2015 1:54 AM Subscribe
An Oral History of Shoegaze In this oral history, Wondering Sound speaks with the bands and other figures on the margins of “the scene that celebrates itself” to discover from whence this distinctive sound sprung, and why it has stood the test of time.
Interesting; I never really knew shoegaze as a genre because I never followed the English music press that closely to take their policing of music genres all that seriously. From a distance the similarities between it and britpop are greater than the differences.
posted by MartinWisse at 4:24 AM on February 13, 2015
posted by MartinWisse at 4:24 AM on February 13, 2015
I'm kind of ashamed I didn't put this together as a force behind some music I currently enjoy.
posted by cashman at 6:02 AM on February 13, 2015
posted by cashman at 6:02 AM on February 13, 2015
While I grew up listening to Cocteau Twins, Pale Saints, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine, etc in the 90's, I swear I didn't hear the term "shoegaze" until the mid 00's. Did I just miss the name entirely or is it something that was retroactively applied when newer bands started emulating the sound?
posted by Dr-Baa at 6:33 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Dr-Baa at 6:33 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
“We will always hate Slowdive more than Hitler,” wrote Richey Edwards of Manic Street Preachers in 1991.
Ouch.
posted by cellphone at 6:39 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ouch.
posted by cellphone at 6:39 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
From a distance the similarities between it and britpop are greater than the differences
No they're really far apart. Listen to My Bloody Valentine's Only Shallow and then Blur's Parklife or Oasis' She's Electric for a comparison.
I didn't hear the term "shoegaze" until the mid 00's. Did I just miss the name entirely
Maybe it depends on where you live? I grew up in the UK and was a fan of these bands - Ride's Going Blank Again is still one of my favourite albums - and we used "shoegaze" as a descriptor knowing it was half tongue-in-cheek. It was how we "danced" when they were played at the local disco; basically you literally looked down at your DM boots and your long hair hung in front of your face and you kind of...swayed and moved your head from side to side. (I guess you had to be there). It felt like a reaction to the E-induced frenzied raving that was also going on at the time.
Thanks for posting this. I'm now afloat on a pleasant sea of nostalgia and reverb.
posted by billiebee at 6:59 AM on February 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
No they're really far apart. Listen to My Bloody Valentine's Only Shallow and then Blur's Parklife or Oasis' She's Electric for a comparison.
I didn't hear the term "shoegaze" until the mid 00's. Did I just miss the name entirely
Maybe it depends on where you live? I grew up in the UK and was a fan of these bands - Ride's Going Blank Again is still one of my favourite albums - and we used "shoegaze" as a descriptor knowing it was half tongue-in-cheek. It was how we "danced" when they were played at the local disco; basically you literally looked down at your DM boots and your long hair hung in front of your face and you kind of...swayed and moved your head from side to side. (I guess you had to be there). It felt like a reaction to the E-induced frenzied raving that was also going on at the time.
Thanks for posting this. I'm now afloat on a pleasant sea of nostalgia and reverb.
posted by billiebee at 6:59 AM on February 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
The term "shoegaze" is decidedly a British term, thought he musical genre itself (or the concepts behind it at least) has been around for much longer. The whole concept of songs that can go for 10-20 minutes a pop featuring heavy reverb and distortion on the guitars accompanied with faded-out vocals has been sort of a tiny niche of rock and roll since at least the 70s if not even earlier.
posted by surazal at 7:32 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by surazal at 7:32 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Shoegaze was the first subgenre of indie rock I really understood. I heard that 2nd wave band Catherine Wheel song on WHFS in probably 91 and the DJ said it was called Shoegaze because the bands didn't do anything onstage, and I was like, ok but damn that guitar sound is dope and I got it way more than REM or Kitchens of Distinction or the Cows or anything else that wasn't metal or punk. Cuz see what a lot of modern shoegaze wannabes don't get, I think, was that it was aggressive in its way. Just walls and walls of chaos, even heavier than the crispy relatively clean distortion of Megadeath and Cannibal Corpse. I was too young to go to a show or buy records do anything other than copy Jesus &Mary Chain tapes from my friend's brother, but even though it was never as strong of a subculture as straight-edge emo or Teenbeat lo-fi or shockabilly or garage punk or any of the early 90s teen phases, it was super super important, and as a genre-idea holds up way better than those.
Oh I just remembered going to Prague with my dad a few years later and in a record store buying a used copy of the first Ecstasy of St. Theresa record because it was in a bin marked Shoegaze. I couldn't understand anything about it, and my record player was cheap af so I thought the record was warped the first couple times I heard it, but it remains one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard. Just waves and waves of warbling overtones, and creepy angelic vocals, splashes of drums peaking through the noise but somehow oddly dance music too.
I guess shoegaze was/is important because it said "Rock Music doesn't have to be discrete 3 minute 1-4-5 hits, OR spooky aggro guitar brutality. It can be mysterious, and peripatetic, and every song can sound the same, but also go into minor keys and be fucking LOUD. It can be an atmosphere more than a composition. Stand still and experience this." Cool.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:44 AM on February 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
Oh I just remembered going to Prague with my dad a few years later and in a record store buying a used copy of the first Ecstasy of St. Theresa record because it was in a bin marked Shoegaze. I couldn't understand anything about it, and my record player was cheap af so I thought the record was warped the first couple times I heard it, but it remains one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard. Just waves and waves of warbling overtones, and creepy angelic vocals, splashes of drums peaking through the noise but somehow oddly dance music too.
I guess shoegaze was/is important because it said "Rock Music doesn't have to be discrete 3 minute 1-4-5 hits, OR spooky aggro guitar brutality. It can be mysterious, and peripatetic, and every song can sound the same, but also go into minor keys and be fucking LOUD. It can be an atmosphere more than a composition. Stand still and experience this." Cool.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:44 AM on February 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
I've been a huge fan of this sound/style for years. I'm still mad at myself because I misread when tickets would go on sale and therefore missed out on getting to see Ride this summer.
I've seen Chapterhouse and Slowdive on tour since they reformed - they were both loud. (I expected that from Chapterhouse, but not so much from Slowdive.)
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:08 AM on February 13, 2015
I've seen Chapterhouse and Slowdive on tour since they reformed - they were both loud. (I expected that from Chapterhouse, but not so much from Slowdive.)
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:08 AM on February 13, 2015
The whole concept of songs that can go for 10-20 minutes a pop featuring heavy reverb and distortion on the guitars accompanied with faded-out vocals has been sort of a tiny niche of rock and roll since at least the 70s if not even earlier.
Do you have some examples? Nothing is coming to mind from the seventies or early eighties, but I'd love to know what you're referencing.
posted by rodii at 8:58 AM on February 13, 2015
Do you have some examples? Nothing is coming to mind from the seventies or early eighties, but I'd love to know what you're referencing.
posted by rodii at 8:58 AM on February 13, 2015
Here is my official ranking of Shoegaze bands from best to least best:
Jesus & Mary Chain
My Bloody Valentine
Catherine Wheel
Ecstasy of St. Theresa
Ride
Slowdive
House of Love
Lush (better as britpop)
Chapterhouse
Swervedriver
Moose
YW
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:13 AM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jesus & Mary Chain
My Bloody Valentine
Catherine Wheel
Ecstasy of St. Theresa
Ride
Slowdive
House of Love
Lush (better as britpop)
Chapterhouse
Swervedriver
Moose
YW
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:13 AM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do you have some examples?
Definitely Velvet Underground. Some Krautrock probably. Love, Blue Cheer, various acid rock bands sort of? Even something more trad rock like Big Star or Zeppelin has moments of swirling loud guitars and buried vox at times. But I do think the genre that started in the mid-80s in Europe is distinct from that stuff.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:20 AM on February 13, 2015
Definitely Velvet Underground. Some Krautrock probably. Love, Blue Cheer, various acid rock bands sort of? Even something more trad rock like Big Star or Zeppelin has moments of swirling loud guitars and buried vox at times. But I do think the genre that started in the mid-80s in Europe is distinct from that stuff.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:20 AM on February 13, 2015
I'm pretty sure Only Shallow by My Bloody Valentine is the archetypal example of "shoegaze" most likely to have been heard outside the UK. wall-of-noise guitars and reverb for days, but tbh there were lots of bands surfing that wave in the late 80s/early 90s.
I was a huge fan of this genre back before I really even understood it, but all I knew was I connected with it far better than REM or whatever other whiny nasal complaint rock was on heavy rotation at the local college station.
somewhere I still have a box of cassettes gleaned from a long distance pen pal in the UK full of Cocteau Twins, JMC, Slowdive, et. al.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:39 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was a huge fan of this genre back before I really even understood it, but all I knew was I connected with it far better than REM or whatever other whiny nasal complaint rock was on heavy rotation at the local college station.
somewhere I still have a box of cassettes gleaned from a long distance pen pal in the UK full of Cocteau Twins, JMC, Slowdive, et. al.
posted by lonefrontranger at 9:39 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
cellphone: “We will always hate Slowdive more than Hitler,” wrote Richey Edwards of Manic Street Preachers in 1991."We're more popular than Jesus."
Ouch.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:00 AM on February 13, 2015
I came here to gloat that I have tickets to see Ride at the Warfield in April and to mention that Kitchens of Distinction's Strange Free World is a masterpiece.
That is all I have.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:14 AM on February 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
That is all I have.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:14 AM on February 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
The whole concept of songs that can go for 10-20 minutes a pop featuring heavy reverb and distortion on the guitars accompanied with faded-out vocals has been sort of a tiny niche of rock and roll since at least the 70s if not even earlier.
They used to call it prog rock.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:00 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
They used to call it prog rock.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:00 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's too bad Kitchens of Distinction aren't touring to support their new record. Not sure they were/are shoe gaze, but they did/do have lots of pedals.
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:02 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by GeorgeBickham at 11:02 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
On a similar theme, a documentary titled Beautiful Noise came out recently,
to my mind, the trailer for Beautiful Noise (it's in the link) does a solid job of defining, describing the thing that came to be known by many (particularly in Britain) as Shoegaze, with MBV's Kevin Shields perhaps getting closest to what was best about it (at least, as I experienced it):
"what was great about the 60s got killed in the 80s, and that brilliant thing that existed got reborn in the late 80s ... "
posted by philip-random at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2015
to my mind, the trailer for Beautiful Noise (it's in the link) does a solid job of defining, describing the thing that came to be known by many (particularly in Britain) as Shoegaze, with MBV's Kevin Shields perhaps getting closest to what was best about it (at least, as I experienced it):
"what was great about the 60s got killed in the 80s, and that brilliant thing that existed got reborn in the late 80s ... "
posted by philip-random at 11:03 AM on February 13, 2015
Potomac Avenue
Your list needs to contain AR Kane, as Neil Halstead mentioned in the article. They should also be number one on the list. Moose was shoegaze on their EP's, but dropped the tag with their subsequent albums.
Ride and Lush together, great concerts!
good list!
posted by locidot at 11:33 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your list needs to contain AR Kane, as Neil Halstead mentioned in the article. They should also be number one on the list. Moose was shoegaze on their EP's, but dropped the tag with their subsequent albums.
Ride and Lush together, great concerts!
good list!
posted by locidot at 11:33 AM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Potomac Avenue: Here is my official ranking of Shoegaze bands from best to least best:
I would like to say that Potomac Avenue is a monstrous source of the most delicious music your ears are craving. (Thanks, to this day, for helping make my heartbreak list on spotify brilliant!!)
And If I may add a band:
Flying Saucer Attack
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:33 PM on February 13, 2015
I would like to say that Potomac Avenue is a monstrous source of the most delicious music your ears are craving. (Thanks, to this day, for helping make my heartbreak list on spotify brilliant!!)
And If I may add a band:
Flying Saucer Attack
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:33 PM on February 13, 2015
I'll never forget buying Swervedriver's Raise based on word of mouth when it came out, coming home, cranking up the headphones and dropping the needle down on this track. Whoa. Then a few years later, getting to see My Bloody Valentine's "holocaust" live. Mind. Blown. Ears. Still ringing. And nowadays it's interesting to see bands like Nothing, who have chewed all this stuff up and produced their own spin.
posted by Otis at 1:00 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Otis at 1:00 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Comments on posts like these and power pop askmefi from a few days ago (and others) tells me we are in desperate need of a mixtape sharing feature on Metafilter...
(Pretty please.)
posted by bigendian at 1:05 PM on February 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Pretty please.)
posted by bigendian at 1:05 PM on February 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I bought what I thought was "Slowdive" --the eponymous EP-- in 1990 and played it to death, always somewhat mystified that it went for about 45 minutes and seemed to have about 8 tracks, while only three were listed on the CD's sleeve.
It was only about ten years later when talking to a fan of Slowdive who worked at a local record store that this came up again: I was trying to get him to remember the early days when they didn't have a female vocalist, and seemed far more MBV-influenced. He just looked at me as if I was a know-nothing newbie, and flat out contradicted my memories. So the next day I took in my "Slowdive" EP and played it. He immediately identified it as "Rise" by Swervedriver: the printing on the CD was wrong, the sleeve was wrong, and I was completely wrong. Again...
I still love those songs, but the disc has passed on to a new owner, deliciously oblivious to the deception that lies within.
Postscript: God the internet is astonishing. A quick search reveals that there were a batch of them released by Creation records, and that it's a pretty rare item. This page notes that "the catalog number(s) are very similar for the two releases ie: raise - CRECD093, and SLOWDIVE - CRESCD093, CRE093T. maybe someone just mixed up the DAT tapes?". Mystery resolved, after 20+ years.
posted by pjm at 5:46 PM on February 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
It was only about ten years later when talking to a fan of Slowdive who worked at a local record store that this came up again: I was trying to get him to remember the early days when they didn't have a female vocalist, and seemed far more MBV-influenced. He just looked at me as if I was a know-nothing newbie, and flat out contradicted my memories. So the next day I took in my "Slowdive" EP and played it. He immediately identified it as "Rise" by Swervedriver: the printing on the CD was wrong, the sleeve was wrong, and I was completely wrong. Again...
I still love those songs, but the disc has passed on to a new owner, deliciously oblivious to the deception that lies within.
Postscript: God the internet is astonishing. A quick search reveals that there were a batch of them released by Creation records, and that it's a pretty rare item. This page notes that "the catalog number(s) are very similar for the two releases ie: raise - CRECD093, and SLOWDIVE - CRESCD093, CRE093T. maybe someone just mixed up the DAT tapes?". Mystery resolved, after 20+ years.
posted by pjm at 5:46 PM on February 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Ride and Lush at the Paradise in Boston in '91 were fantastic; on this night Lush opened then Ride played, which felt right. It was one of the first concerts I'd dared to go by myself. For some reason I ended up rushing there straight after college club volleyball practice, no time to change, sweaty sweatshirt and all… only to find out it's sold out. So I'm still grateful today for that long-haired guy who said his friend couldn't make it and sold me his extra ticket at no extra cost.
Those 3 first EPs by Moose were so good. I enjoyed the country stylings on the debut LP, but not as much.
posted by shortfuse at 6:12 PM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Those 3 first EPs by Moose were so good. I enjoyed the country stylings on the debut LP, but not as much.
posted by shortfuse at 6:12 PM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Personally, my favorite record of all time, well it's a draw, between the Beatles' Revolver and My Bloody Valentine's Loveless. Funny thing, when Loveless came out, good though it was generally thought to be, the buzz that it was all in Alan Moulder's production. I saw them live within a month of getting the record, at the tiny band room at the Knitting Factory on Houston Street. They were every bit as mind-blowing live as this record was to me. More. Live, it was every bit as harmonically rich, textured and other-worldly as it was on the record. I was hooked.
posted by psmealey at 6:28 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by psmealey at 6:28 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I saw MBV when they opened for Dinosaur Jr. at Avalon - it was spring '92 after Loveless came out in '91 - and yes that was a hell of a gig. The sound of it all was overwhelming. I think my mind is toying with me as to whether I knew the holocaust bit was coming, or if it was a total surprise to me. I might have read about it beforehand in NME or Melody Maker, but was caught off-guard (and laughed) at just how long it went on.
Like others, this is all making me very nostalgic. I'm gonna go dig up some CDs.
posted by shortfuse at 6:39 PM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Like others, this is all making me very nostalgic. I'm gonna go dig up some CDs.
posted by shortfuse at 6:39 PM on February 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
yeah, a lot of these bands are fine and were fine back in the day ... but live, MBV were like a rocketship whereas they were all bicycles. Seriously, they were in a sonic dimension that would've been scary if hit hadn't been so beautiful.
posted by philip-random at 6:59 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 6:59 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mostly agree with you, philip-random if I didn't love Swervedriver so much. But then, I'd always considered them to be a different thing, as they apparently did themselves.
posted by psmealey at 7:07 PM on February 13, 2015
posted by psmealey at 7:07 PM on February 13, 2015
OMG Jesus and Mary Chain ❤️
posted by ersatzkat at 8:30 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatzkat at 8:30 PM on February 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Much of my favorite types of music are variants on shoegaze. At some point I made this playlist with a song each from most of the associated bands, with a lot later wave examples. There are various bands on the list that are definitely part of some other scene, but there's clear influence.
One Shoe. Or, URI: spotify:user:1236893927:playlist:1IqK4vNiZH0IlJmy7MIYoM
And I think there is some Venn diagram action going on between shoegaze and Brit pop, some fuzz around the edges if you will.
Many of the first wave or so bands shifted to a more poppy sound as the the 90s went on (most notably Lush and Catherine Wheel) while some Brit pop bands picked up some noise. The self-titled Blur and Be Here Now by Oasis; maybe even What's the Story. And the Verve certainly had some shoegaze to their sound, too.
posted by mountmccabe at 8:51 PM on February 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
One Shoe. Or, URI: spotify:user:1236893927:playlist:1IqK4vNiZH0IlJmy7MIYoM
And I think there is some Venn diagram action going on between shoegaze and Brit pop, some fuzz around the edges if you will.
Many of the first wave or so bands shifted to a more poppy sound as the the 90s went on (most notably Lush and Catherine Wheel) while some Brit pop bands picked up some noise. The self-titled Blur and Be Here Now by Oasis; maybe even What's the Story. And the Verve certainly had some shoegaze to their sound, too.
posted by mountmccabe at 8:51 PM on February 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
significant by their absence thus far ...
The
Boo
Radleys
posted by philip-random at 11:41 PM on February 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
The
Boo
Radleys
posted by philip-random at 11:41 PM on February 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Came back to this post to tell mountmccabe that I enjoy his playlist thoroughly.
Thanks mate.
posted by bigendian at 5:26 AM on February 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thanks mate.
posted by bigendian at 5:26 AM on February 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah wow holy shit thanks MtMcabe!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:53 AM on February 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:53 AM on February 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
« Older The first science fiction anthology to focus on... | All Her Children Fought Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Eagerly awaiting whatever it is that Slowdive are currently recording.
posted by acb at 3:09 AM on February 13, 2015 [10 favorites]