Let the games begin! Er, continue! 17 GOP candidates enter ...

August 6, 2015 1:44 PM

Tonight (Thurs., Aug. 6, 2015) is the first official** televised debate for Republican presidential candidates, to be held in two separate events on Fox. First, there's the happy hour debate at 5 PM EST, with the seven candidates who didn't make the final cut*. At 9 PM EST, the Prime Time debate takes place with the top 10 candidates. You can watch online, if you have cable authentication, but you can also participate through Facebook, who are co-presenting the debates. Otherwise, wait until after the show for clips to start surfacing, or you can follow live-blogging a-plenty (NPR | New York Times | The State | Reason), and you can add your two bits with the Fox News Election HQ 2016 App.

* So what's the rub with the final cut? First, take a look at the final percentages, as determined from five national polls. The New York Times had a good write-up, with animations, depicting how margin of error plays into all this when trying to pick between closely polling individuals this early on, and NPR presented another graphic and take on how such polls and potential for error made the selection process tricky to say the least. Rachel Maddow pointed out some additional messiness with Fox's selection of polls, and some pollsters and polling groups were skeptical of the whole practice.

According to a recent Gallup poll, If the American People Were Running the GOP Debate, the economy still ranks as the public's top concern going into this extended election season, with ten other topics ranked accordingly. According to NPR, which has some questions and clips of what some of the GOP candidates would ask each other,

Facebook also released a list of the most talked-about political topics on its platform for the two months ahead of the debate. Those are: racial issues, Mexico, the economy, LGBT issues and immigration.

Back to the debates tonight - who's on first? In alphabetical order:

• Carly Fiorina
• Jim Gilmore
• Lindsey Graham
• Bobby Jindal
• George Pataki
• Rick Perry
• Rick Santorum

On Prime-time:

• Jeb Bush
• Ben Carson
• Chris Christie
• Ted Cruz
• Mike Huckabee
• John Kasich
• Rand Paul
• Marco Rubio
• Donald Trump
• Scott Walker

If you need a quick overview of the candidates, The Atlantic has a cheat sheet for the Democratic and Republican candidates.

** C-Span forum 'outfoxed' official GOP debate on Monday, by holding a 2 hour "Voter's First Forum" with 14 candidates (lacking Trump and Huckabee, by their own choice, and Jim Gilmore, who wasn't invited), which can currently be viewed online in full right now. Or you can get a a recap by Joseph McQuaid, also on C-Span, or a write-up by David Zurawik for the Baltimore Sun, and another by Chrissie Thompson, for The Cincinnati Enquirer via USA Today.

For current and future reference, you might find it helpful to see the Wikipedia page on Republican Party presidential debates, 2016, where folks are keeping track of who appeared where, and list out future debates. Currently, the first Democratic Party presidential debate isn't sent to take place until October 13, 2015, to take place in Las Vegas, Nevada and to be broadcast on CNN.

posted by filthy light thief (968 comments total)

To keep the debate on schedule, the Fox team was also discussing a possible alternative to the usual gentle ding sound that signals that a candidate’s time has expired: the actual shot-clock buzzer used during Cleveland Cavaliers basketball games, which are played at the same arena.
posted by theodolite at 1:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

What are the best Twitter accounts planning to live tweet?

Matt Taibbi, Patton Oswalt ... ?

What else?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:48 PM on August 6, 2015

Begin, this clone war has.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [53 favorites]

The national GOP is starting early on the batshit stupid train.

"The Voting Rights Act of 1965 enjoyed broad Republican support, but protecting citizens' right to vote in free and fair elections is not merely a Republican priority. It is an American priority. Today, as we enjoy more access to the polls – through early, absentee and weekend voting – than in past decades, we celebrate the sacrifice, accomplishments, and memory of those who made it possible.”

posted by Talez at 1:51 PM on August 6, 2015

As they prepare for the first debate among 7 of the 17 republican nominees, Fox news discusses the radical-left fringe elements of the Democratic party.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 1:51 PM on August 6, 2015

It's pretty hilarious that people like the Ricks (Perry and Santorum) just keep on coming back for more every time. Surely they know they haven't a shot in hell. There's some really fascinating psychology at work there.
posted by something something at 1:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Don't forget your Character Wigs!
posted by yhbc at 1:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Psychology or just an easy way to make a lot of money?
posted by dilaudid at 1:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

It'll be interesting to see how the candidates vociferously oppose marriage equality without sounding like zany bigots.
posted by Avenger at 1:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I can't see any possible way that Trump doesn't "win" this debate. There's no possible room for any candidate to budge from the policy orthodoxy on the right without immediately sinking their entire campaign (War with Iran on day 1, or day 2?; Deport them all over time, or deport them all on day 1?; Shutdown the government over Planned Parenthood, or over Obamacare again?) So the only way to get any movement will have to come from personality and/or outdoing everyone else in the crazy. Trump is the biggest personality, the most practiced showman, and has no constraints on the upper bound of the crazy. He can't possibly not "win".
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

So the second-stringers are the opener, then you have the main event four hours later? And only on a pay channel? Huh.
posted by emjaybee at 1:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

At this point surely it would be easier money to sit in a chair on Fox News.
posted by something something at 1:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Considering they all love guns, couldn't you guys just drop them in an Island off the coast of Japan, tell them their campaign funds were used to buy armament and scattered on the island on boxes only their own key can open, and the survivor will be the Republican nominee?
posted by lmfsilva at 1:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [38 favorites]

What if some of them swam to Japan? That would be cruel
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

Matt Taibbi's GOP Debate Drinking Game
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 1:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Health officials warn that you could die playing GOP debate drinking games: ‘It’s just a formula for disaster’
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

Eriko's GOP Debate Drinking Game.

Go to a bar and stay as far away from TVs as possible. Drink.
posted by eriko at 2:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [96 favorites]

I believe Japan's policy in such an eventuality would be to summon Mothra, InfidelZombie
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

A Canadian satirical site had the best comment on this (although they may have been applying it to our own debates):


Leadership Debate Drinking Game:

Drink litre of bourbon.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

Infidelzombie, if memory serves me correctly, Monster Island had all kinds if defenses to keep their monsters on the island, so I'm not worried that the candidates would escape. Unless of course some flying saucer women freed them and transported them around the world to destroy major cities.
posted by happyroach at 2:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I realize that the US doesn't hold a total monopoly on ludicrously stupid politicians but we're surely the world leading in producing them. Seriously, that's sad pack of potential leaders of the free world right there.
posted by octothorpe at 2:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

So you don't fucking die version:

take a drink every time a candidate says something you agree with.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [45 favorites]

Why put the debate in a huge arena if you aren't going to try and fill it?
posted by dilaudid at 2:04 PM on August 6, 2015

take a drink every time a candidate says something you agree with.


Wouldn't that be a sober game?
posted by lmfsilva at 2:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I realize that the US doesn't hold a total monopoly on ludicrously stupid politicians but we're surely the world leading in producing them. Seriously, that's sad pack of potential leaders of the free world right there.

Probably took too long to take the lead out of paint and gasoline.
posted by Talez at 2:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Infidelzombie, if memory serves me correctly, Monster Island had all kinds if defenses to keep their monsters on the island, so I'm not worried that the candidates would escape.

"Monster Island" is a misnomer, you know. It's really a peninsula.

Anyway, what if the Democratic presidential primary were as bizarre as the GOP one currently is?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:07 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Anyway, what if the Democratic presidential primary were as bizarre as the GOP one currently is?

And they say Democrats don't have a bench!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:08 PM on August 6, 2015

Thanks 23skidoo!
posted by whir at 2:09 PM on August 6, 2015

There's some really fascinating psychology at work there

It's called "replenishing the coffers and burnishing the Fox talking-head resumé" syndrome. With a little ego-stroking thrown in for good measure.
posted by CosmicRayCharles at 2:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Come on all these guys would be brilliant presidents just hurry up.
posted by colie at 2:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Given that it's hosted by Fox, it seems pointless to subject myself to this since I don't expect any questions of substance to be asked.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 2:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I saw a bit on the news this morning about George W. Bush getting called for jury duty and posing for cheesy photos with the other jurors. If you'd asked me ten years ago to imagine a field of prospective GOP candidates that would make W look like he had gravitas in comparison I would have laughed til my throat bled.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [66 favorites]

what an utter shitshow
posted by young_son at 2:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ahaha the Fox moderators are just reading the kid's table candidates to filth
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 2:14 PM on August 6, 2015

The kids table candidates are up there right now to make sure all the lights and the mics work.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:19 PM on August 6, 2015

this morning NY1 was doing a half hour wrap-up of top local stories and the caps hadn't caught up with the images so as I was READING "the current death toll in the south bronx legionnaire's outbreak is 8" I was SEEING headshot photos of the first 10 repub candidates who would be in tonight's debate and I was like oh if only
posted by poffin boffin at 2:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Oh God, I'm not ready for elections again. Can't we all just hit the snooze button for another few months. The election is not for another 460 days. Why!? Why are we doing this now?
posted by fremen at 2:21 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

some of us need lots of time to decide which meretricious hellclown we'd like to see in charge of our nuclear arsenal, fremen.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:23 PM on August 6, 2015 [24 favorites]

fremen: Why!? Why are we doing this now?

Sorry, I could have let y'all ignore this noise, because there is so much that can (and) will happen between now and the GOP primaries, when things start to get winnowed down, but I'm hoping something of value comes from tonight (and I don't mean lots of people getting drunk for one reason or another).
posted by filthy light thief at 2:25 PM on August 6, 2015

Who calls dibs on the sockpuppet "meretricious hellclown"?
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [25 favorites]

Actually, I think this calls for the mother of all drinking games:

DRINK: Sit with at least one other person. Take turns taking a drink, moving clockwise. Every time you see someone else drink, take a drink.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

I'd prefer to see this as some sort of octagon cage fight. It would be an epic slap fight with no blood drawn and most of them falling over in exhaustion in the first ten minutes.
posted by doctor_negative at 2:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

The Drinking Game Drinking Game: every time someone proposes a new drinking game, take a drink.
posted by Foosnark at 2:27 PM on August 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

I would pay good money to see Lindsey Graham in a cage fight. Might die laughing, but what a way to go.
posted by palomar at 2:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

"You are all very well behaved so far". It really is the kids table! Cookies and juice for everyone!
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

take a drink every time a candidate says something you agree with.

Wouldn't that be a sober game?

Not exactly. You should drink when they introduce themselves (eg: "Hi, I'm Donald Trump").

Introductions alone is 10 drinks.
posted by el io at 2:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

So my twitter timeline is basically going to be a multi-hour drinking binge because of this and Jon Stewart's final Daily Show, I guess. Good luck to all of your livers!
posted by sparkletone at 2:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

There are maybe 30 people in that stadium, this is just sad
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 2:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Can we make this thread the only one where we talk about GOP candidates until the end of the election?
posted by Roger Dodger at 2:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

Why should we be the ones get alcohol poisoning? I say the candidates play a game of I Have Never and with any luck it might result in a way to actually tell the candidates apart.
posted by ckape at 2:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

Want a preview of the debate? Open up five parallel windows of this video. When one ends, hit replay.

That's the Republican debate.
posted by Naberius at 2:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

They're Not Going to Get to Trump Tonight

I live in New York. I know precisely what skill Trump has honed: When you encounter a direct challenge, you respond with even more aggression than was directed at you, and you accompany that with trash talk. Chances are your antagonist is concerned about maintaining a certain level of decorum. If you don't give a crap about decorum, but you actually seem to have your wits about you as you fire back (that's the trash talk -- this wouldn't work if you threw a punch), then chances are you'll back your opponent down, having shocked him by upping the aggression ante.

...

Maybe they'll try to trip him up by asking a question that should be answered with a presidential level of attention to detail. But that won't work -- Trump will just veer off into chest-thumping generalities and never answer the question. He'll be unfazed.

posted by tonycpsu at 2:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

"I have never taken government benefits directly from the hands of an impoverished minority" and then they have to take a shot for each time they did it and everyone dies and it's tres drole
posted by poffin boffin at 2:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Can we make this thread the only one where we talk about GOP candidates until the end of the election?

How about we stick to one per month? That way, they won't get too big.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Handy tip: the Happy Hour debate gets a lot better if you put on some kind of mid-tempo chill-out music under it. I'm going with Bonobo's Days to Come.
posted by cortex at 2:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Like, Lindsay Graham seriously sounds like he's free-styling right now.
posted by cortex at 2:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Here's the PBO GOP Debate Drinking Game

Every time a vision of stark horror flashes in your head as your mind involuntarily confronts the potential reality of one of these twits becoming your president, drink a shot as soon as the icy claws seizing your chest thaw and you can move your arms again

It's not really a game
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [48 favorites]

I say the candidates play a game of I Have Never

You can't -- Trump wins every time in a walkover.

“I saw things happening (at Studio 54) that to this day, I have never seen again,” Trump told O’Brien. “I would watch supermodels getting screwed, well-known supermodels getting screwed on a bench in the middle of the room. There were seven of them and each one was getting screwed by a different guy. This was in the middle of the room.”
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

What they're looking at right now.
posted by dilaudid at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

What's the Vegas line on the sheer mass of crazy on stage tonight will collapse time-space and suck the Earth down into a black hole?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Whatta short-list of the biggest hoseheads in our country.
posted by triage_lazarus at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015

One of the candidates left their closing statement on the hotel printer. (It is Fiorina).
posted by chrchr at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Handy tip: the Happy Hour debate gets a lot better if you put on some kind of mid-tempo chill-out music under it.

I was really into Popol Vuh, who did Werner Herzog's soundtracks, around the time of the last election. I was watching Obama and Romney debate while listening to the soundtrack to Aguirre: the Wrath of God, and man, these debates can be intense.
posted by teponaztli at 2:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

I'm planning on watching it sometime later this week with the sound turned off and riffing on what I figure they're likely to be saying.

I'm calling it MST2K15.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Check out #YouHateIDonate on Twitter--one way to avoid alcohol poisoning!
posted by wintersweet at 2:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Anyone else notice the "Google and Apple!!!" mentions on the cyber-wall "discussion", but not Facebook? Strange, eh?
posted by slater at 2:47 PM on August 6, 2015

I hope someone in the audience opens a door and causes vacuum to blow Donald T. Rump's hair over every time it is his turn to answer.
posted by srboisvert at 2:49 PM on August 6, 2015

“I saw things happening (at Studio 54) that to this day, I have never seen again,” Trump told O’Brien. “I would watch supermodels getting screwed, well-known supermodels getting screwed on a bench in the middle of the room. There were seven of them and each one was getting screwed by a different guy. This was in the middle of the room.”

"That's interesting, Mr. Trump, but the question was about your position on the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [67 favorites]

Anyone else notice the "Google and Apple!!!" mentions on the cyber-wall "discussion", but not Facebook? Strange, eh?

No, Apple and to a lesser extent, Google, have embraced encryption enabled by default in the wake of ongoing evidence of NSA abuses. Which in the world of #LOLGOP and the Obama administration, is literally the same as material support for ISIS. Facebook, has umm, not done that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh, I thought it was cos Facebook was sponsoring this "debate".
posted by slater at 2:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Overheard just now at the office:

"How much preparation do you think Trump did?"
"Zero."
"Why."
"Because I can't imagine this guy going, 'Hey, everyone, let's run through it again. I'm not sure I really nailed it that last time. It's important that I get this right.'"
"Good point."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

Cool Papa Bell, if you think I Have Never won't work, we can just go back to the idea I had for the debates last time around: waterboarding for everyone.
posted by ckape at 2:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Assclowns, assclowns
careening preening assclowns
Assclowns, assclowns
vote for one yum

posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 3:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

I like how Lindsey Graham just turned the question about how hard he would shut down planned parenthood into how quickly he would start Iraq War II: Save the Females Boogaloo.

And by "like," I mean I'm about to make another manhattan.
posted by Panjandrum at 3:05 PM on August 6, 2015

This kiddie debate was only supposed to be an hour
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:09 PM on August 6, 2015

Are all y'all going to be hanging out in the chat room, or is this thread going to be the center of conversation?
posted by tzikeh at 3:11 PM on August 6, 2015

GET IN THE CHATROOM.
posted by daq at 3:12 PM on August 6, 2015

Seen on Twitter: "okay everybody you have 10 seconds to scream real loud when you hear the name 'Obama'"
posted by orange swan at 3:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Interesting that Graham is evidently trying to rebrand "the 1%" as referring to people who serve in the armed services, rather than rapacious oligarchs in the top income percentile.

Edit: where is the chat room?
posted by whir at 3:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

If anyone wants some appropriate background music

I find Devo's "Beautiful World" hits the mark for me.
posted by CosmicRayCharles at 3:15 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Oh yeah. chat.metafilter.com
posted by Roger Dodger at 3:15 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

the link is on the header right next to metatalk
posted by poffin boffin at 3:15 PM on August 6, 2015

I'd pay good money to watch that, too.
posted by palomar at 3:16 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

waterboarding for everyone

"OK, lay back, Mr. Trump."
"What kind of water is this?"
"What kind?"
"Only the best. Is it Fuentealta from the Canary Islands? Galvanina from the Appenines? Radenska from Slovenia?"
"This is from Cleveland, I guess."
"That's not the pinnacle of style and prestige for artisanal waters."
"You do realize you're being waterboarded, right?"
"The Trump brand is tops in quality! Only losers get waterboarded with Coca-Cola products like Dasani."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [16 favorites]

I wonder if it'll look obvious that Trump is a distraction to buy Jeb time from additional scrutiny, or if Trump is actually gaining power and breaking off the leash.
posted by cashman at 3:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

So how does this work now? Does the winner of this debate get to move up to the big table next debate, while the loser of tonight's debate gets relegated? Does anyone get voted off the island or told they are the weakest link?

I just feel like the networks are missing an opportunity here, in terms of turning this into a reality show/spectator sport.
posted by nubs at 3:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [16 favorites]

> Some strong contenders, but I feel confident in my prediction that Ronda Rousey could easily kick all of their asses

At once? Hmm...
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:31 PM on August 6, 2015

Jim Gilmore's International Gorilla of Movement
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:33 PM on August 6, 2015

I just feel like the networks are missing an opportunity here, in terms of turning this into a reality show/spectator sport.

I'm hoping that midway through the debate the podiums will transform into woks, the candidates will be showered in shrimp and healthy vegetables, and Gordon Ramsay will emerge and browbeat them for their miserable stir frying technique.
posted by vverse23 at 3:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

I wonder if it'll look obvious that Trump is a distraction to buy Jeb time from additional scrutiny...

Oh, hey! Speaking of Donny and Jeb...
posted by Thorzdad at 3:35 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm hoping that midway through the debate the podiums will transform into woks, the candidates will be showered in shrimp and healthy vegetables, and Gordon Ramsay will emerge and browbeat them for their miserable stir frying technique.

Who will win the nomination? And who... will be GOPped....
posted by tzikeh at 3:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Two thoughts following the Kids' Table Debate:

1) Those were the worst debate moderators I've ever seen. They editorialized so much during the questions that I started to think that they might have been candidates themselves (what's two more anyway?). The could have gotten in twice as many questions if they had just gotten to the point.

2) I seriously wonder if any of the people present are aware that President Obama isn't running in 2016. I would have thought that Hillary was big enough a boogeyman (boogeyperson?) for the Fox News crowd.
posted by dances with hamsters at 3:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm hoping that midway through the debate the podiums will transform into woks, the candidates will be showered in shrimp and healthy vegetables, and Gordon Ramsay will emerge and browbeat them for their miserable stir frying technique.

"Tonight's secret ingredient is...privilege!"
posted by Four Ds at 3:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [26 favorites]

Apparently the #TCOT consensus is that Foirina won, which has to be news to HP shareholders.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

BAD | Pataki Kasich Fiorina Bush Gilmore Perry Jindal Graham Walker  Cruz Paul Huckabee Santorum Carson Trump | WORSE

posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

haha i forgot christie

christie squeezes between jindal and graham
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Bwithh: "You can watch it for FREE online with the option of English, French, Punjabi, Cantonese Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, or Italian language subtitling:"

STOP SHOWING OFF CANUCK
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [30 favorites]

You can watch it for FREE online with the option of English, French, Punjabi, Cantonese Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, or Italian language subtitling:

Immigration without assimilation is an invasion! Learn English! I'll only watch Murican debates, naked save for an American flag while deep frying a bald eagle and free basing cocaine! GITRDONE.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

T.D. you're not All-American, that cocaine is imported... try meth.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:07 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

Ivy league, NYC elitist and former Studio 54 regular, Hollyweird reality TV show host and thrice-married Donald Trump, who called for legal abortion and universal healthcare until a couple years ago is a TRUE conservative in 2015.

I ain't religious, but maybe these are end times.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 4:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

can we combine this thread with that one?
posted by jepler at 4:10 PM on August 6, 2015

Soundtrack for tonight's debate: "Game of Pricks" - Guided By Voices
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

T.D. you're not All-American, that cocaine is imported... try meth.

And the flag was made in China, but what's more American than outsourcing and the drug war?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Ivy league, NYC elitist ... is a TRUE conservative in 2015.

You gotta read What's the Matter With Kansas, which goes into exactly how social conservatism gets glued to financial conservatism, and how you end up with the dissonance of an elite NYC financier as the avatar of redneck 'Murica.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:23 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

That BAD/WORSE spectrum is a great visualization and conversation framework.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:26 PM on August 6, 2015

Perry is looking at Trump.

Trump is partly crumpled, frozen in an unnatural posi-
tion as though he had been writhing and stopped mid-
writhe. He looks back at Perry with eyes full of
life and intensity.

They stare at each other for a long time in silence,
communicating something with their eyes... without
expression. Finally Trump breaks the silence.

TRUMP
I've seen things seen things you people
wouldn't believe. Omarosa on fire off the shoulder
of Mark Burnett. I watched lines of coke
glitter in the dark near East Hampton.
All those moments, lost in time, like dollars in my account.
You're fired.

posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [43 favorites]

Oh darn, I forgot about the earlier debate. I guess I'll watch it later but it's not as fun without live reactions from internet folks.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:45 PM on August 6, 2015

I was biking at the gym, looked up from my tablet, and there was Lindsey Graham on Fox. "Poor guy," I thought, "He didn't make the cut so he is announcing his withdrawal from the race." Then Rick Perry was on the screen and I figured out that there was some sort of bush league debate going on. How humiliating for the "B" team. How interesting that no one was too proud to say yes to FOX.

One of the candidates left their closing statement on the hotel printer. (It is Fiorina).

Is this a thing for her, to refer to herself as "he"? and as a boxer coming into the ring? She must think she has to be over the top with the machismo at all the times to have the slightest chance at being taken seriously as a GOP candidate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:49 PM on August 6, 2015

So Fox thinks Trump is closer to prime time than Jindal and Perry and Graham and Pataki?

Things are already beginning to get weird in here.
posted by bukvich at 5:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The question we need to ask is why isn't our goberners remeberitize ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 5:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

*sets down popcorn, a tankard, one bottle of gin, one bottle of vodka, a case of Sapporo and a pillow*

Approx. 40 minutes til showtime. LET'S DO THIS.
posted by Ashen at 5:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Greg Nog: Some strong contenders, but I feel confident in my prediction that Ronda Rousey could easily kick all of their asses

And then, after the 78 seconds it takes to soundly defeat all GOP contenders, she sits down with Bernie to talk about Pokemon strategies, because they both agree there's been enough blood shed for one day.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:22 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

sparkletone: So my twitter timeline is basically going to be a multi-hour drinking binge because of this and Jon Stewart's final Daily Show, I guess.

Oh my god, I understand why Fox chose tonight of all nights: NO MORE DAILY SHOW! Well, at least no Jon Stewart to mock them in a daily news/satire format tomorrow night, and there's no way they're going to shove some GOP mockery into the Arbystraviganza tonight. Well played, GOP, well played.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Remember, when you can't handle the absurdity, illogic and bad acting of the GOP Debate, you can take refuge at FanFare's MST3K Club, this week showing Episode 316 "Gamera vs Zigra", the series' last of too many Gamera movies. A Gamera farewell almost equal to the Jon Stewart farewell.
(also starts at 9 Eastern)
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

And then, after the 78 seconds it takes to soundly defeat all GOP contenders, she sits down with Bernie to talk about Pokemon strategies, because they both agree there's been enough blood shed for one day.

Can Herman Cain come too?
posted by Drinky Die at 5:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Cool Papa Bell: You gotta read What's the Matter With Kansas

I was thinking about that book a lot today reading this pretty excellent long-form piece in the NYT magazine about the recent budget struggles in Kansas, where the politics have divided into roughly three camps of conservative Republicans (moderates having been voted out in the 2012 and 2014 elections). I'd be pretty interested in Thomas Frank's take on the current, uh, state of Kansas, since his book came out just prior to some pretty fascinating developments there.
posted by whir at 5:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I've been working on a project that let's people play fantasy politics. Our first big test is actually this Republican debate, check it out BallotCraft!
posted by mikhuang at 5:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Well played, GOP, well played.
I wouldn't give the GOP the credit for the timing. FoxNews' BigBoss Roger Ailes is more savvy than all the debating candidates combined. I'm halfway relieved that he's not going to retire at the end of his current contract this year... if he were available to run the nominee's campaign directly, I'd bet on any Republican to win.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Good point, 'foop.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:37 PM on August 6, 2015

I've been working on a project that let's people play fantasy politics. Our first big test is actually this Republican debate, check it out BallotCraft!

I joined and bet it all on Trump, but I'm ignoring that your are using a focus group. Polls of Republican primary voters seems the best objective measure, and I think they will give it to him.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I started reading The Loudest Voice in the Room, a bio on Ailes, and I was in awe and depressed. (I was reading it to make a post on the book, but I didn't make it through the book.)
posted by filthy light thief at 5:41 PM on August 6, 2015

Good *cough* job, Rick.
posted by sparkletone at 5:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Clown Car Demolition Derby Sobriety Game

Designated Driver? Mormon? Gotta get up early tomorrow? Just don't want to die of cirrhosis before Election Day? Try these “drinking” game rules, guaranteed to prevent you from getting the slightest buzz!

Here are the rules:

Any time Donald Trump shows a sign of human empathy or an emotion other than greed, contempt, or self-aggrandizement, take a sip of beer!

Take a Jagermeister shot each time a candidate praises Hillary Clinton for her handling of Benghazi!
If Jeb Bush apologizes personally to Michael Schiavo for having the Florida government interfere in his family health-care decisions regarding his wife, do a shot!

If Mike Huckabee makes a moving statement about the difficulties that trans people go through, with a moving plea to recognize their needs, power-chug an entire bottle of chateauneuf de pape.

If Marco Rubio recognizes that anthropogenic climate change must be addressed by reducing the extraction and use of fossil fuels and proposes massive, rapid implementation of wind, tidal, and solar energy as a top policy priority, drink a huge glass of room-temperature well-brand gin!

Ted Cruz made the top-ten? Really? Jesus H. Christ. OK, um, if he quotes the Koran or finishes a statement with the phrase Insha'Allah do a Jello Shot.

If Jeb Bush admits his father and brother were both crappy presidents and announces he's quitting the race because he is genetically unfit to lead, drink three glasses of sangria.

Chris Christie and Ben Carson totally start making out. Grab the nearest drink and chug it.

If Rand Paul endorses Obamacare, have a glass of moscato.

John Kasich? I don't even know who the fuck that is.

Scott Walker? Yeah, him either. Didn't he run before?
posted by Cookiebastard at 5:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Crap, I just realized that this means that I have to watch Fox News. It just took me five minutes flipping around the FIOS menu to find the damn channel and the first thing I see is an NRA commercial telling me how evil Mike Bloomberg is.
posted by octothorpe at 5:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Some bars are nicer than others... "where everybody knows your name - but doesn't know what channel FoxNews is on"
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

As someone who has worked in a bar...you study what channel the sports are on, not the debates. :P

Oh, the minor league women's cricket from Estonia? NBCSports 6, channel 7786. I'll put it right on.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

In 'Happy Hour Debate,' Candidates Struggle To Break Through (NPR, updated with each candidate's closing statements in brief)

The biggest punches thrown at the first GOP presidential debate of the evening were at candidates not on the consolation debate stage.
...
First off the bat, Fox News moderators Bill Hemmer and Martha MacCallum asked candidates why the boisterous Trump was on the prime-time debate stage and they weren't. Many had been bitter over the polling methods used to determine who made the cut and who didn't. But others, like Fiorina and Graham, tried to put a happier spin on the evening, calling it the "Happy Hour Debate."

Now I feel a bit bad for those stuck at the kids' table. "Why aren't you grown up enough to be at the big kids table? You know, like TRUMP."

Yes, we all remember the blowhard, good thing we're here to talk about politics, right? Right? Sigh.
posted by filthy light thief at 5:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"Do you want to see the candidates?"

Wait, is "No," an option?
posted by Drinky Die at 5:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The spray tan is strong with our slate tonight.
posted by Diagonalize at 5:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Has anybody found an online livestream? I don't have TV so I can't sign in.
posted by zug at 5:57 PM on August 6, 2015

Via the Something Awful thread, I make no promises about quality or the security of your PC:

http://www.foxnews.com/live-coverage/fox-news-republican-presidential-primary-debate might work. You might need a cable subscription.

http://www.livenewschat.eu/the-republican-debates-live-stream/ after you install an ad-blocker. or try
http://www.stream2watch.co/live-tv/us/fox-news-live-stream or
http://www.hulkusc.com/watch-fox-news-live-streaming/ or
http://vaughnlive.tv/newzviewz
posted by Drinky Die at 5:58 PM on August 6, 2015

The biggest punches thrown at the first GOP presidential debate of the evening were at candidates not on the consolation debate stage.

I wish actual punches had been thrown. Why isn't this a literal simultaneous cage match between all contenders? Ratings would be way higher.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:58 PM on August 6, 2015

"That was awkward enough."

Indeed, let's go home, folks.
posted by Diagonalize at 5:59 PM on August 6, 2015

this banter, it's like AGT up in here
posted by theodolite at 5:59 PM on August 6, 2015

"She unleashed a can".

From a moderator.

dear lord.
posted by the bricabrac man at 5:59 PM on August 6, 2015

One of the LCD panels above the stage is broken so it says OX NEWS
posted by theodolite at 6:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

One little, two little, three little shitheels
Four little, five little, six little shitheels
Seven little, eight little, nine little shitheels
Ten little GOP toys.

Ugh so many horrible men all on one stage.
posted by Windigo at 6:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Drinky Die: http://www.stream2watch.co/live-tv/...ews-live-stream
http://www.stream2watch.co/live-tv/us/fox-news-live-stream looks like the full URL, but I'm not getting any working connections at this time.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:01 PM on August 6, 2015

http://vaughnlive.tv/newzviewz

Seems to be working.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Wow, big cheer for the home team.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:03 PM on August 6, 2015

Did he just call him Glenn Kasich?
posted by Rhaomi at 6:03 PM on August 6, 2015

Yep, the vaughn link is working.

Wow, a purity pledge!
posted by zug at 6:04 PM on August 6, 2015

Boy, starting off with a big ol' middle finger in the air there, huh?
posted by Diagonalize at 6:05 PM on August 6, 2015

He did it solely so he can talk first. YES.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trump being a dick right out of the box - no surprise that.
posted by leslies at 6:05 PM on August 6, 2015

From the NPR summary of Happy Hour:

The candidates are asked to describe Hillary Clinton in two words (spoiler alert: they all used more than two words). Here's how they responded.

Pataki: "Divisive and with no vision. No vision at all." — 9 words

Fiorina: "Not trustworthy. No accomplishment." — 4 words

Santorum: "Secretive and untrustworthy." — 3 words

Perry: "Let's go with three. Good at email." — 7 words

Jindal: "Socialist and government-dependent." — 4 words

Graham: "Not the change we need at the time we need it." — 11 words

Gilmore: "Professional politician that can't be trusted." — 6 words

GOP: bad at counting
Moderators: bad at moderating

More thoughts: government-dependent? OF COURSE, she's running to be THE PRESIDENT, just like you. You aren't running for Most Popular Anarchist, dude.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

Is this Wrestlemania?
posted by Windigo at 6:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

You aren't running for Most Popular Anarchist, dude.

I think Trump might be.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

"Ben Carson, are you indeed, a moron?"

"Well I'm excited we have this opportunity tonight to explore those issues."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:07 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

SCOTT WALKER WINKED AT AMERICA, my brain will never be clean again, ugggggggh.

Also, bingo card if your liver can't take the drinking game: http://www.vox.com/2015/8/6/9113893/republican-debate-bingo

This is ALREADY AMAZING.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:08 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"Ben Carson, are you indeed, a moron?"

Yeah. Smartest guy up on that stage by a mile.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:08 PM on August 6, 2015

Rubio with the Oh Snap
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:09 PM on August 6, 2015

Here is a good link if you still need one, Sky News on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqafQVNkyN4
posted by Drinky Die at 6:09 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Jeb Bush looks like a guy whose brother is a war criminal.
posted by Windigo at 6:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [33 favorites]

Rubio's talking points won't play, though. It wasn't quoteable enough and he'll get big burns from "If resume is what matters, Hilary Clinton will be the next president." I hope he flubbed that, because otherwise he needs to fire his press shop.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

How do I earn a "Jeb?"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:10 PM on August 6, 2015

I earned the right to be called by my name. And also a mafia name.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:10 PM on August 6, 2015

Does he realize Vito Corleone was a mobster who was gunned down by his enemies on the street?
posted by Diagonalize at 6:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Rubio didn't say anything of note. He did look thirsty.

Trump is just being Trump, which is red meat for his crowd.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:12 PM on August 6, 2015

Wow, best, "Nope, factually wrong!" from a moderator since Romney got served on Benghazi.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

omg, Trump doesn't have time for "political correctness", e.g. CALLING WOMEN PIGS
posted by triggerfinger at 6:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm not actually watching this, being Australian, but I'm still enjoying conflating Scott Walker with the better Scott Walker.
posted by solarion at 6:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

The thing is, a lot of conservatives are gonna love Trump's "we're too politically correct" answer.
posted by Windigo at 6:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"WE NEED BRAIN!"
posted by Diagonalize at 6:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

"Donald Trump, are you a misogynist blow hard?"

"Yes, Megyn."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Okay, I am now regretting my bet for a Trump win. I will be shocked if this isn't regarded as an implosion by the end.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:13 PM on August 6, 2015

Is Fox just working on tearing down all the folks that aren't part of the establishment?
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:14 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump's presence here reminds me of that SNL "Celebrity Jeopardy : Rock Edition" skit where Sean Connery shows up like "I released an album of dirty limericks just to qualify! Suck it, Trebek!"
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:16 PM on August 6, 2015 [17 favorites]

Scott Walker is like debating a potato.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

It seems to be flatly impossible to stream this at all on any device whatsoever. Not sure why I'm surprised.
posted by koeselitz at 6:17 PM on August 6, 2015

http://vaughnlive.tv/newzviewz is working for me.
posted by zug at 6:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Huckabee is a total loon.
posted by leslies at 6:18 PM on August 6, 2015

So Huckabee is going with the Burn the non-believers at the stake as his legal basis for government?
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

DNA what now??
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I don't know anyone who owns a Buick these days.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'd rather have Donald Trump as president if the other option was Scott Walker.

Trump is a buffoon, but Walker is evil.
posted by Windigo at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Ah, that does seem to be working. Thanks, zug.
posted by koeselitz at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015

DNA schedule huhwhatwhat?!
posted by robstercraw at 6:19 PM on August 6, 2015

I wonder how many women's pregnancies have gone worse because they had less access to reproductive health care.

> It seems to be flatly impossible to stream this at all on any device whatsoever. Not sure why I'm surprised.

We did manage to the get Sky News link working.
posted by rtha at 6:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

What a fucking clown show.
posted by homunculus at 6:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Obligatory reminder of Scott Walker's Toxic Racial Politics
posted by triggerfinger at 6:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Kasich is the cousin Oliver of GOP candidates.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:21 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

See, being reasonable isn't going to play with this crowd.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:21 PM on August 6, 2015

Tsunami of drugs!
posted by gingerbeer at 6:22 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

What a fucking clown show.

Clown car pile-up, please.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:23 PM on August 6, 2015

My stream glitched up so I genuinely thought he was talking about a tsunami threatening Americans and was kind of impressed
posted by theodolite at 6:23 PM on August 6, 2015

I can't watch this since I'm in Australia and at work, but this is amazing to read. Has the sky turned the colour of sack cloth? Is the sun the colour of blood? Have all the rivers turned to writhing snakes?

This is the #romneydeathrally all over again.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:24 PM on August 6, 2015

Holy shit. Jeb just threatened San Francisco with destruction.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:24 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm at work, so I can't watch. Has anybody taken off their face to reveal their reptilian self yet
posted by joannemerriam at 6:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

You can watch it on Periscope, although it's just a guy pointing his phone at his TV.
posted by JDHarper at 6:24 PM on August 6, 2015

> Tsunami of drugs!

IMMA SURF THAT TSUNAMI
posted by rtha at 6:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

Right. Illegal immigration is the Trump pet project, after all.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:25 PM on August 6, 2015

LOL Trump is such a horrible candidate.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:26 PM on August 6, 2015

Gosh, well, now that we have all this hard evidence on hand, surely we can come up with some kind of reasonable and comprehensive immigration reform.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:27 PM on August 6, 2015

Drinky Die: " I am now regretting my bet for a Trump win."

omg, he's going to get ripped apart by pundits, but dude is on some excellent talking points that will resonate with the base. He is doing SURPRISINGLY WELL. The things that are quoted as "Trump being a crazy idiot" will be heard as evidence by the right-wing base that he's sticking it to the establishment and speaking truth to power.

Lord_Pall: "Is Fox just working on tearing down all the folks that aren't part of the establishment?"

These three are from the actual hard news side of Fox News, not the bloviating opinion side. They are conservative but they are journalists. (I actually really like Megyn Kelly, she's conservative but she doesn't suffer bullshitters.)

Lord_Pall: "Scott Walker is like debating a potato."

Given one nuke from orbit, I'd use it on Walker, no question.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:27 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Okay, I'm really confused - I have double-checked that I have my TV turned on to the FOX channel, and yet it's showing an episode of BONES and no debate. What am I missing?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:27 PM on August 6, 2015

lol remember when people were speculating about Trump going all presidential for this
posted by theodolite at 6:27 PM on August 6, 2015

"Donald Trump, do you have any evidence of the things you say?"

"Here's your evidence right here." /Trump drops trou and craps on stage

/Poll numbers shoot through the roof
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [17 favorites]

Gotta have it on Fox News, EmpressCallipygos.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015

It's amazing that even as much as Trump has shown his ass tonight, he's still less terrifying than Huckabee.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trump's odds dropping like a stone in prediction markets. Gee, couldn't see that one coming at all.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh, never mind, I found it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015

Why are there even commercial breaks during this?
posted by monospace at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015

He's perfectly confident and makes the others look like talking point slaves
posted by bird internet at 6:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Twitter: "Trump is straight up throwing a brick through the overton window"
posted by naju at 6:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Trump all like "GOTCHA QUESTION, MORE LIKE BOUGHT YER QUESTION. ALSO I AM A RICH MAN. FUCKIN' RICH."
posted by cortex at 6:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Lord_Pall: “Holy shit. Jeb just threatened San Francisco with destruction.”

Oh, don't be inflammatory. He said nothing of the kind.

By saying "we need to end sanctuary cities," he merely meant that, as president, he would institute martial law in California and send in federal troops to enforce stricter immigration laws, effectively annexing San Francisco to the District of Columbia.
posted by koeselitz at 6:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Democracy requires capitalism! Advertisements are Democracy! The Gun is Good! The Penis is Bad!
posted by Panjandrum at 6:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

what is push for liberty council? is everyone seeing this commercial?

I think it's spelled "pusch".
posted by Justinian at 6:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

This is so much worse than I ever imagined. I can't even cope.
posted by octothorpe at 6:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Like, I feel like if you're the RNC and you're gonna play chicken with someone, you should make sure that they aren't actually looking forward to a head-on collision.
posted by cortex at 6:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

Hey why are all the ties solid colors?
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:31 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump touched my nerve
posted by bird internet at 6:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

omg, he's going to get ripped apart by pundits, but dude is on some excellent talking points that will resonate with the base. He is doing SURPRISINGLY WELL. The things that are quoted as "Trump being a crazy idiot" will be heard as evidence by the right-wing base that he's sticking it to the establishment and speaking truth to power.

That's how he got to where he is in the campaign so far, but it doesn't sound like the live audience is buying it. The boos are louder than the cheers.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Hey why are all the ties solid colors?

POWER TIES.
posted by Justinian at 6:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Huckabee: all law must come from the Holy Quran Bible and from God's messenger. #Huckabee4Mullah2016
posted by Avenger at 6:31 PM on August 6, 2015

I like Trump because hes dragging the beliefs many conservatives hold onto the stage and forcing the other candidates to either embrace them for everyone to see or refute them and risk losing ther base.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

Hey why are all the ties solid colors?

STRIPES ARE FOR LIBRULS. DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME ABOUT CHECKS YOU PERVERT.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

WTF! Are we seriously at the point of the debate where we start praising Trump?!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:32 PM on August 6, 2015

I hate that Kasich seems to be doing well. Don't be fooled by a couple vaguely reasonable positions, he's still a monster.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

Okay, Rubio and all his FACTS and DIRECTNESS is kind-of making me think he is NOT AS SUCKY AS SUSPECTED.

Countess Elena: "he's still less terrifying than Huckabee."

Because Huckabee laid out the logical consequence of declaring fetuses persons, very lucidly. I honestly never thought I'd hear that in a debate.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:33 PM on August 6, 2015

Rubio just cheesed the Border Wall with a door to a fence.

But he is concerned with Graboids, so underground fortifications are needed.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I just realized that Scott Walker looks like an extra-evil Josh Groban.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:34 PM on August 6, 2015

Rubio makes a good point about the focus on Mexico. Most of the immigrants I've worked with (in suburban Philly) have been Guatamalans. Most of them are a foot shorter than me but at least twice as strong. Hardest workers I've ever seen.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:34 PM on August 6, 2015

Did Facebook buy Fox recently?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:34 PM on August 6, 2015

Does Walker know we're not talking about the canadian border?
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:34 PM on August 6, 2015

Will you allow the death of one pretty white lady to determine policy y/n
posted by Countess Elena at 6:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Rule of thumb: laws named Soandso's Law are stupid.
posted by box at 6:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I bet they don't mention Sandra Bland.
posted by Windigo at 6:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

These guys are all spending a lot of time at the border. Perhaps...T for Trump, S for Scott Walker...TSUNAMI? Are they an illuminated cabal called TSUNAMI?
posted by cortex at 6:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Republicans in 1987: Tear down this wall

Republicans in 2015: Build more walls everywhere.
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [47 favorites]

I assumed he was standing so he could be seen from behind the podium.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015

Holy shit. This is good television.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Bill of rights" twice in one go...two shots for me *sighs*
posted by Ashen at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Rule of thumb: laws named Soandso's Law are stupid.

My state recently outlawed secretly ejaculating into another person's beverage, and the law was motivated by a specific case. I kind of wish it got named after the guy responsible.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

Ooh, Chris Christie's approach is BE A BIG JERK BECAUSE WHO CARES. Kinda fun when it's Rand Paul on the receiving end.
posted by koeselitz at 6:38 PM on August 6, 2015

A national embarassment, but a good television.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015

Tree Obama hugger!
posted by gatorae at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh wow. Christie is pissing people off.
posted by zug at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015

BAM! OBAMAHUGGER!
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015

"I know you gave him a big hug, if you want to give him a hug again, if we all want to hug him, long to hug him, oh for his touch, just to be held..."
posted by cortex at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Hugs 2016
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Fight! Fight!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Hugs! Hugs from 9/11 families! Fuck your due process!
posted by rtha at 6:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I wish preseason football was as entertaining as preseason politics.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Megyn is eye-rolling SO hard through this whole thing. It's impressive.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Has Ben Carson said anything this whole debate?
posted by dilaudid at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I look forward to a "I'm the only one on this stage who..." supercut. It's the primary debate version of I'm Not Here To Make Friends.
posted by cortex at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Did they forget about Ben Carson or something? Seems weird that he got the first question and then nothing else for 40 minutes.
posted by myelin sheath at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm watching the YouTube stream of the debate and the sidebar video recs include:

• "Area 51, Aliens and Life on Mars"
• "World's First Head Transplant"
• "Alien found on Mars? True Evidence?"
• "Has Britain become hostile to blokes?"
• "Shocking Video | Mysterious Flying Humans in Nellore District"
• "Planet Nibiru Confirmed By Google Sky"

Not sure what it means but I certainly can't tell which is more full of crazy.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

I know it's Fox fucking News but it still boggles the mind that not just candidates but moderators of both debates keep using the term "illegals". At least it's not "crime-aliens".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

What was funny was that in the Canadian debate they were all mentioning Obama positively and working with Obama on "continental" regulatory issues.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Dismantle ISIS in 90 days? Are you shitting me?

You might as well plan that shit out with a couple of crayons and construction paper because that's incredibly basic.
posted by Ashen at 6:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I could only stomach 40 seconds before switching back to THE MATRIX RELOADED.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

Apparently Obama is an inquisition apologist.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:42 PM on August 6, 2015

If the president hates ISIS hard enough they disappear, don't you guys know anything?
posted by shadow vector at 6:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Can they phone a friend and tag in Lindsey Graham for the ISIS question?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

moderators of both debates keep using the term "illegals"

One of many reasons that I am currently filled with rage
posted by pemberkins at 6:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"Ted Cruz, how would you defeat ISIS?"

"We need an Egyptian dictator, Megyn."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

More rubber bracelets Han I would expect on this stage.
posted by box at 6:43 PM on August 6, 2015

Did Jeb just imply he'd use nuclear weapons?
posted by zug at 6:44 PM on August 6, 2015

"To honor the people who died" we need to KILL AGAIN!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

"A caliphate the size of Indiana" might possibly be the most hilarious comparison with the Hoosier state I've ever had the pleasure to consider.
posted by mostly vowels at 6:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [18 favorites]

Has Ben Carson said anything this whole debate?

He got like the first question, it was a challenge on his expertise on foreign policy and government. He dodged the challenge well and gave a good answer, but since then...

The Invisible Candidate.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:44 PM on August 6, 2015

OH MY GOD.

"To honor the people that died we need to [create another vaccuum of power and further stomp upon all our remaining diplomatic goodwill]"

They're invoking our ghosts now. This is disgraceful.
posted by Ashen at 6:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Hey, look, it's Ben Carson!
posted by wallabear at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2015

There he is. Hey, Dr. Carson? You like torturing people?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2015

Aww, poor Ben Carson.

A doctor who wants to torture people is kind of a fucked up concept.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Carson, just admit you'd bring back waterboarding.
posted by Windigo at 6:45 PM on August 6, 2015

"I've made up the term 'politically correct war.' What's with that? There's no such thing! Who makes stuff like that up?"
posted by cortex at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

carson doesn't believe in fighting stupid wars

carson likes a nice quiche

carson would like to answer a different question, please
posted by koeselitz at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

Not to me, I tell ya
posted by Countess Elena at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015

oh god i hope this will be torrented by some intrepid young person because i can't handle watching the livestream tonight, i tried for a few minutes but it's been a really bad day and it just made me way janglier in the nerves. i got trump nerves real bad. maybe tomorrow, with booze?
posted by palomar at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015

Carson doesn't believe in fighting stupid wars. A brave statement against the war in Iraq from a Republican.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015

> "A caliphate the size of Indiana" might possibly be the most hilarious comparison with the Hoosier state I've ever had the pleasure to consider.

Yes, this! I love this.
posted by rtha at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015

Oooh.. Canadian burn!
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:46 PM on August 6, 2015

Hahahahaha, and Trump does it for real!
posted by Drinky Die at 6:47 PM on August 6, 2015

"TOLD YOU SO, BITCHES!" Trump, keepin' it classy.
posted by Diagonalize at 6:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

oooooo
posted by Countess Elena at 6:47 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump is like a colorful old man ranting at the counter of an auto parts store.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

"You're having a hard time tonight." Trump to Paul. [me watching this is hard!]
posted by leslies at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trump just told Rand Paul, "I don't think you heard me. You're having a hard time tonight."

Heh. He can be entertaining.
posted by koeselitz at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Weird, just noticed that Trump's gesturing is very similar to Dr. Evil's in the Austin Powers movies.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

From a twitter comment I just saw: Donald Trump bragging about coming out strongly against the Iraq war in 2004. We invaded in March 2003.
posted by zug at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

wedding realpolitik
posted by Countess Elena at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Okay that was a fucked up exchange.

Trump was the most reasonable, but all these other shitbags groveling for money was just sickening.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"You're welcome to give me a check if you like, Donald!"
posted by Drinky Die at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015

HAHAHA Trump admits to bribing politicians.

Most hilariously bad debater ever. Dying here.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

....wow
posted by Ashen at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015

Wow. I wonder how much it costs to have Hillary Clinton at your wedding? Must cost a lot. Donald Trump sure is rich, folks.
posted by koeselitz at 6:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Facebook persons?
posted by gatorae at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Trump is so going to rise in the polls after this.
posted by octothorpe at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

"facebook persons"
posted by cortex at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

So they should list who is talking. Seriously. I can't tell who is who anymore.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:50 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh wait. Pale blue solid tie and wide shoulders. That's huckabee.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:51 PM on August 6, 2015

Side note, if anyone wants me at their wedding, I will happily appear to the tune of $100 and free cake.

I come cheap, folks. GET AT ME.
posted by Ashen at 6:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

can you even imagine how drunk Jon Stewart is right now
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [42 favorites]

Tithing!
posted by ghharr at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

So they should list who is talking. Seriously. I can't tell who is who anymore.

I think the guy you can't recognize is Walker. It's the one who took me a minute. It takes a special politician in the media age where you truly only, solely hate them for their policies so much that you don't even know what they look like.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Trump: "I give politicians money and they do what I want."

GOP Contenders: "Wanna write us a check, Mr. Trump?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I am a facebook person.

Oh, are we going to talk about tithing as a tax reform system? OKAY.
posted by rtha at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I wonder how much it costs to have Hillary Clinton at your wedding?

$250,000, give or take.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015

What would Stephen Colbert done with this is what I want to know.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

What the hell?! Tithing is good enough for God, so it should be good enough for the federal government?! That's what we're going with?!!
posted by Diagonalize at 6:52 PM on August 6, 2015

They just booed math and education.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

I know I shouldnt pick on physical appearance, but these glasses make Jeb look really crooked.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

everyone lines up for Floridian public education
posted by Countess Elena at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

> So they should list who is talking. Seriously. I can't tell who is who anymore.

We need color-coded ties or something.
posted by gingerbeer at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015

Beating the teachers' union! That's what we need to do!
posted by Windigo at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

It might be the glasses with the part in his hair. His entire head is lopsided.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:53 PM on August 6, 2015

I was wondering how long it would take to shit talk teachers' unions
posted by mostly vowels at 6:54 PM on August 6, 2015

What would Stephen Colbert done with this is what I want to know.

It is figuratively a crime against humanity that he is not currently on this stage as a participant.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

COMMON CORE BOOGIEMAN! AGENDA 21! JADE HELM!
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015

It just reminds me how close together his brother's eyes were...
posted by bird internet at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015

"do you agree with your old friend Marco Rubio?"
jeb bush, eyes wide, nodding vigorously "he's DEFINITELY my friend"
posted by koeselitz at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

I don't say this very often but fox is doing a good job so far
posted by craven_morhead at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I love that this has commercials. I need these piss breaks.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Federal government would be happy with tithing if the rich people and megacorps can't get out of giving up their 10%.
posted by zennie at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Does anyone else think a JEB/Rubio ticket is possible? Or is that 2florida4USA?
posted by Panjandrum at 6:55 PM on August 6, 2015

Okay so the problem is I can't snark fast enough. I need an app to help snark more effectively. Like postmates for snark.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Can someone tell me: has any candidate mentioned minorities (black/Hispanic) other than in reference to crime/immigration?
posted by Avenger at 6:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Honestly, I have no idea what to think about Common Core because it is so damn political
posted by Countess Elena at 6:56 PM on August 6, 2015

Walker has the worst hair on stage. Trump included.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah okay. These commercial breaks are actually pretty good for keeping up with this thread.
posted by monospace at 6:57 PM on August 6, 2015

It is figuratively a crime against humanity that he is not currently on this stage as a participant.

He might actually be Ben Carson, I dont know, I dont see race.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I dunno, Christie's hair looks like a black taco...
posted by bird internet at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump's hair is so soft and fluffy.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015

has any candidate mentioned minorities (black/Hispanic) other than in reference to crime/immigration?

No. I will owe you a beer if I am wrong.

Walker has the worst hair on stage. Trump included.

Don't discount whatever is going on with the Christie Wave.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm so ruined by slash that I thought "Christie/Paul" meant something else entirely
posted by Countess Elena at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

Damn, I was all set to watch. Popcorn and all. And then I discovered that I can't get Fox News Channel, and therefore, cannot watch the GOP Variety Show. What's funny (ha ha) is that I've had this cable service for 3 years and I'm just now discovering that I don't get Fox News Channel.

So I'm watching "The Sixth Sense". I'm not sure which is more horrifying, really.
posted by sundrop at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Christie can't get the nom since he hugged obama.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015

Someone needs to buy this poor dude being interviewed on SkyNews a better webcam. And some lighting.
posted by gingerbeer at 6:58 PM on August 6, 2015

I find it hilarious that many of the ads are for lifestyle items that a not-insignificant number of FOX constituents would still be unable to afford in their wildest dreams even if their candidate won the Presidency.
posted by Ashen at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Does anyone else think a JEB/Rubio ticket is possible? Or is that 2florida4USA?

Constitutionally, the president and vice president can't be from the same state. So, one of them will have to move. Otherwise, it strikes me as a pretty damn good scenario. The Bush people are very aware of having to appeal to Hispanic voters as a practical political matter.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015

I need to cook dinner, but I can't snark, watch and cook at the same time.
posted by Lord_Pall at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015

AWKWARD Fox moment
posted by wallabear at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015

The starburst filters on the camera lenses make this look like a 1970s variety show.
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, if I hear that damn Infiniti jingle ever again . . .
posted by Countess Elena at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Governor who?
posted by Ashen at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015

Countess Elena: "Honestly, I have no idea what to think about Common Core because it is so damn political"

It's a fine but not perfect set of standards which is not a curriculum; curriculum is set at the state level or local level still. Common Core was largely a Republican-backed Chamber-of-Commerce initiative aimed at making students "college or career ready" which really means "career ready" and so focuses on things like non-fiction reading and memo-writing that I think are probably not what we need to make students CITIZENSHIP READY which I think is the point of free universal public education. But it's really not that bad as a set of standards.

All Republicans with any national record at all supported it when the Chamber of Commerce was for it, so it's kinda hilarious to watch them run away from it so fast now that the Tea Party is against it.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [26 favorites]

Woah. Kasich looks sweaty. Bad news.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015

"How will you face down the Clintonator?"
posted by Diagonalize at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015

2016 debates: mini-rounds.
2020 debates: mini-golf.
2024 debates: Minnie Mouse impressions.
posted by cortex at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Is anyone watching this on Sky News? Who is that commenter guy and why is he in a hotel room?
posted by insectosaurus at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

My father was a mailman is Kasich's qualification? Seriously?
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Streaming Vaughn link above is still working
posted by craven_morhead at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Where is the square on the card for "father is a mailman"?? Help I can't find it!
posted by rtha at 7:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

SHADOW PEOPLE!
Dude. Don't call minorities shadow people.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

That was a... ramble.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm voting for a miracle.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015

"Don't seem to ever think they get a fair deal"

Yikes. Yikes.
posted by Nomiconic at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Constitutionally, the president and vice president can't be from the same state

Whoa, is this true? That has to be a holdover from Ye Olde 2nd Most Electoral Votes is VP days, right?
posted by Panjandrum at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The Americle.
posted by cortex at 7:01 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm honestly downright impressed by Trump's ability to avoid actually answering any questions that he's been asked.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Carson confirms, Hillary would be a dream come true!
posted by Diagonalize at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Alinski model? What was that?
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Ben Carson doubts Democrats will nominate Hillary? He is definitely the smartest guy on the stage, but he might also be the worst informed.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh, probably Saul Alinski.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015

I laughed aloud at the Saul Alinsky reference. What a bone for the conspiracy crowd
posted by Countess Elena at 7:02 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Ben Carson's responses are just a bunch of word magnets thrown at the refrigerator.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [20 favorites]

Saul Alinsky. He's a boogie man.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015

I need a miracle.
posted by gingerbeer at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015

Saul Alinsky. It doesn't really mean anything it's just a dogwhistle for conservatives.
posted by dilaudid at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson has elaborate fantasies about how to destroy America, for America.
posted by cortex at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Alinski model? What was that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals
posted by Drinky Die at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I totally remember the part in Rules for Radicals that said "COUNT ON STUPID PEOPLE." Well played, Ben Carson. Well played.
posted by koeselitz at 7:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

So, no streaming here and, I'm switching back and forth between reading these comments and rereading The Dispossessed. Such whiplash.
posted by joeyh at 7:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

How is this only half over?
posted by zombieflanders at 7:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ben Carson's ideas on how to destroy America sounds like he's describing Reagan.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:05 PM on August 6, 2015

Alinski model? What was that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals

Ben Carson is really frustrating to me. A brilliant black conservative who is a hero and role model in Baltimore could take those rules and do something great, even if he held on to those conservative views...but instead...he brings nothing to the table as a candidate.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Scott Walker's face at the phrase "your record in Wisconsin" was nothing short of beautiful.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

I would love to be watching this next to Le Guin right now.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I think I need another drink. It was the non-segue from "replace Obamacare" to "invest in the energy revolution" that did it.
posted by rtha at 7:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Are your fellow candidates lying liars who lie? NOW GO!"
posted by Diagonalize at 7:06 PM on August 6, 2015

I can't say who "wins" but the people who have overperformed my expectations:

Donald Trump, who is giving a lot of very quotable quotes that will light up the conservative blogosphere. He also comes across as having no bullshit; and every attack against him he turns into a conservative plus (being a jerk towards women = hasn't got time to be PC)

Marco Rubio -- surprisingly factual and informed, who will play well with the pundits, but I think has some problematic quotes that will hammer him with the base.

Chris Christie -- surprisingly. I don't think it gets him into the top tier, but he's won most of his skirmishes, been entertaining and quotable, and come across as a truthspeaker.

Ted Cruz, who is BEAUTIFUL at pivoting to empty nonsense

I thought Jeb Bush underperformed on the foreign policy questions (wonky but unpersonable) at the beginning but now that we're on domestic questions, that are more in his wheelhouse, he's wonky AND explaining himself well. He's done enough to remain the establishment favorite.

---

Scott Walker's inability to name a Middle Eastern country that wasn't already our ally was AMAZING and he did a GREAT JOB pivoting to "we should talk about countries that ARE our allies" and then only being able to name Israel, Israel, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and btw Israel. That was INCREDIBLE. What a dingbat. (But ... he couldn't manage to graduate from Marquette, so ...)

Paul just sounds like a rabble-rouser; Huckabee is only appealing to evangelical Christians; Kasich is kinda incoherent and not appealing to anyone but a few Ohians. Carson is an empty suit.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Yeah but the energy revolution is just a fuckoff big oil pipeline for his lackies.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:07 PM on August 6, 2015

11? Yes. 13? Yes. But mine is the only twelve point plan.
posted by Nomiconic at 7:07 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I have tremendous respect for Dr. Carson, where he came from and what he's accomplished with this life. So when I see him here and what he's been like since he's entered politics...ugh...it's I don't know. It's sad.

He's a surgeon. It's no mystery. The arrogance of surgeons is great when they're getting shit done, but otherwise, they're vulnerable to a kind of Engineer's Disease.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:07 PM on August 6, 2015 [20 favorites]

Dude. You can't work at 14 anymore. Workhouses were outlawed a while back.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:08 PM on August 6, 2015

Lord_Pall: "Scott Walker is like debating a potato."

No. Unlike Walker, a potato will feed a hungry child.
posted by stet at 7:09 PM on August 6, 2015 [140 favorites]

Man, Christie has decent talking points but the delivery is a mess. He is clearly stumbling like he is reading a teleprompter script he hasn't seen. He sounds like a kid reading out loud that totally expected a different word on the next page. If I wasn't so lazy I would isolate this on a replay, but I am lazy so don't expect that, but it is clearly there.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:09 PM on August 6, 2015

Ooh. Governors Vs. Senators! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:09 PM on August 6, 2015

I got my first job in Georgia at 14, which is still the minimum age for work in that state.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015

Prostitutes!
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015

PIMPS ARE STEALING MAH RETIREMENTS
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Yay, pimps! Time for a pimp tax!
posted by Diagonalize at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015

Uhoh. Huckabee almost bagged on the 1%

Illegals, Prostitutes and Pimps. That's the new tax base.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Also Chris Christie's people have prepped him the best to keep his responses in the time period, he's NAILING that.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Wait, prostitutes and illegals are no freeloaders
posted by Countess Elena at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

illegals, prostitutes, drug dealers, pimps, and other sundry Democrat types
posted by cortex at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Yes, Christie. The lying and stealing have already occurred.
posted by Ashen at 7:10 PM on August 6, 2015

The thing I like about Trump is his nods are practically audible.
posted by cortex at 7:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

What am I saying?
posted by hal9k at 7:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

His fingers aren't that short.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:11 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Income tax already applies to ALL INCOME, that's how they got Al Capone!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

@jbouie:"Pimpin' Ain't Easy (When You Have to Pay Payroll Taxes)" - Mike Huckabee
posted by zombieflanders at 7:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Trump Trump Trump Trump
posted by bird internet at 7:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's funny that this "debate" has had little to no to do with being the president.
posted by sfkiddo at 7:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

Like Uber but for Donald Trump waving his arms and saying "what am I saying" when someone tries to interrupt you.
posted by cortex at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

"EXCUSE ME. EXCUSE ME. EXCUUUUUUSEE ME."
posted by Ashen at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump just kicked Christie in the balls
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015

the biggest, most fabulous herring head
posted by Countess Elena at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"These lenders aren't sweet people. They aren't babies. They're killers. They're ruthless killers who hate puppies and want to kick cats. It's awesome that I took their money."
posted by koeselitz at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

I don't even have words for this.
posted by shadow vector at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump, you realize you can't eliminate the national debt by declaring bankruptcy, right?
posted by Itaxpica at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

OMG, the moderator breaking the 4th wall with that look as Trump was talking about bankrupcy. That's gonna be a meme tomorrow.
posted by zug at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I'M RICH. I'M SO RICHITIY RICH I CAN'T EVEN STAND MYSELF!
posted by zennie at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Trump: "Chris can tell you... everyone [in Atlantic City] is going bankrupt."
Christie: *daggers*
posted by Westringia F. at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

Chris can tell you! AC pwnage. Trump's best moment.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

whats going on? did someone die?
posted by Avenger at 7:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Being the person who takes a question after Trump must be like being the rebound relationship.
posted by cortex at 7:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

Oh, I heard "Tanya from Philadelphia" and thought it might be a black lady. No, no, of course not.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:14 PM on August 6, 2015

I really do get the feeling that Trump, for as much as he is a caricature of a human and screaming nightmare of politician, is getting a lot more heat from the moderators than the other candidates. I don't know if it's because he is the front runner or if it is an actual strategy from the RNC, but everyone else seems able to get away with spouting pablum while Trump gets dogged follow-ups.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Being the person who takes a question after Trump must be like being the rebound relationship.

Dude should have just taken a drink of water and waited it out.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:15 PM on August 6, 2015

What was the bankruptcy question? I've got five liveblog windows open and they all have people's snarky responses to questions but don't actually say what the durned things were! Augh frustrating I want to know how Christie was shown up!
posted by barnacles at 7:15 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh shit, inceptioning the kids table debate! It's like a Video Daily Double.
posted by cortex at 7:16 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Fox is pushing Fiorina like crazy. At the start of the prime time debate they say she won the earlier one, now they run a clip in primetime of Perry praising her and her landing the talking point.

Still, I don't think she gets much traction with these primary voters. This is heat to put her in the VP conversation.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

If elected, Trump will make partnerships with foreign countries that will drive them all into bankruptcy while the US gets ahead...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Oh, and the "can't nominate POTUS and VP from same state" thing is not true, but electors from the state wouldn't be able to vote for both people on the ticket, so parties basically don't do it.

Snopes:

For example, suppose the Republican party nominated for their national ticket a pair of candidates who both hailed from the state of Nevada. If the Republican ticket received the most popular votes in that state in the general election, Nevada's electors could not cast ballots for both candidates — for at least one of the two offices (presumably vice-president), each of Nevada's electors would have to vote for someone off the ticket who was not a resident of Nevada. Republican electors in every state other than Nevada, however, would be free to vote for both candidates.

posted by Panjandrum at 7:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

barnacles -- question to Trump regarding his companies' bankruptcies, including Atlantic City, NJ casino. Trump called out Christie with something like, "A lot of places in Atlantic City went bankrupt, ask Chris".
posted by nathan_teske at 7:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

REAGAN = GOOD! OBAMA = EVIL! GO AMERICA! BOO IRAN! *thumps chest soundly*
posted by Diagonalize at 7:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Fiorina is the Trump Equivalent for the merely half-crazy.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:18 PM on August 6, 2015

Who points a gun at your head and then loads it?
posted by cortex at 7:19 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Thanks, nathan_teske!
posted by barnacles at 7:19 PM on August 6, 2015

Ronald Reagan would never cut a deal with Iran
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [37 favorites]

This is a shockingly weak field on foreign policy. Like, they don't even have the no-chance Chris Dodd type hanging around who can at least raise the tone a bit.
posted by shadow vector at 7:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

oneswellfoop: “Fiorina is the Trump Equivalent for the merely half-crazy.”

Hey now – don't go giving the trophy away before the buzzer sounds. The whole point of this debate is to figure out the Trump Equivalent for the merely half-crazy. Whoever wins that trophy gets to be the nominee.
posted by koeselitz at 7:20 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Reagan knew how to handle the Iranians, that's for sure
posted by Avenger at 7:21 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

I'm amazed they're pushing Fiorina so hard considering how badly she shit the bed at HP. HP's market cap went up three billion dollars when Fiorina finally got forced out, meaning that the free market deemed her to be worth roughly negative three billion dollars. Considering how much Republicans love yelling about the free market, it's kinda funny that that hasn't come up.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:21 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

oh yay "social issues" time. this will be enlightening.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:23 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

This is the section where I will probably drink the most.
posted by Ashen at 7:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yep.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Thank you Jeb for reaffirming my decision not to have taken that job in Florida.
posted by Westringia F. at 7:24 PM on August 6, 2015

"If you aren't disgusted by these people already, now it's time for social issues"
posted by rmless at 7:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

Jeb angling for the coveted vanity license plate bloc
posted by theodolite at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh god here we go.
posted by Windigo at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015

monospace: Why are there even commercial breaks during this?

Because no one agreed to wear their corporate sponsorship jackets, as if they were in Nascar.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah Jeb did do it with end of life issues... poor Terri.
posted by sfkiddo at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh nooooooooo
posted by Itaxpica at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015

The Florida culture of life is well documented on the Florida Man twitter
posted by Countess Elena at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I can't even snark. This is too depressing for words.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:25 PM on August 6, 2015

Did Bush just make a reference to Terry Schiavo with that end of life pro-life reference?
posted by mostly vowels at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015

Whether they can exist outside an amniotic sac or not...
posted by gatorae at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015

ugghhhh fuck all y'all. cocks crow but hens deliver.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm amazed they're pushing Fiorina so hard considering how badly she shit the bed at HP. HP's market cap went up three billion dollars when Fiorina finally got forced out, meaning that the free market deemed her to be worth roughly negative three billion dollars. Considering how much Republicans love yelling about the free market, it's kinda funny that that hasn't come up.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:21 PM on August 6 [+] [!]

Being the CEO of a failing, hemorrhaging company is a major plus for Republican candidates. Remember, personal wealth -- rather than stock performance -- is a sign of inherent goodness. Fucking over stockholders to get rich is a sign of wisdom and virtue. Taking a haircut to preserve shareholder value is a sign of weakness.

Republicans are generally pro-corporate, but only insofar as corporations serve to increase personal wealth and self-interest. Otherwise, they could take them or leave them.
posted by Avenger at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

oh god now they get to the point where my humanity is in question because I am a uterus-having adult instead of a fetus. /gets another drink
posted by rtha at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

THEY ARE SO MEAN TO TRUMP oh wait he brought up Reagan
posted by Windigo at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015

Shruuuug
posted by rmless at 7:26 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm sad because I don't have popcorn to go with my gin.
posted by zennie at 7:27 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Trump leaning hard on his Bad Widdle Boy thing with the arms
posted by theodolite at 7:27 PM on August 6, 2015

~superstar~

What if his friends' kid had been a dick?
posted by Windigo at 7:27 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Then he'd have adopted the kid himself.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:27 PM on August 6, 2015

They really do have it in for Trump
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:28 PM on August 6, 2015

If you need some beautiful audio to wash out your ears tonight, try Four Tet's new (free!) single, "Back2TheStart". (Paid for by the Committee to Spread Good Dance Music Far and Wide.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Well, he is the only candidate.
posted by Artw at 7:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

TRICKLE DOWN IS BACK MOTHERFUCKERS!
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The moderators are really gunning for Trump by asking him tough questions like "Are you really a Republican?"

(seriously he's just super bad at this)
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:29 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump: "I'm a dick because ISIS"
posted by Itaxpica at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

The horrah, the horrah.
posted by cortex at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

It's Medieval Times.
posted by box at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I don't think "Medieval Times" was on my list but I'll drink anyway
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

oh god gay marriage
posted by rtha at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015

.....I just spat out my gin
posted by Ashen at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015

oh god my stone cold heart just melted a little at the audience applauding gay marriage
posted by zug at 7:30 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Huh. Good answer dude.
posted by Windigo at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

If one of my daughters turned out to be that
posted by cortex at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

Holy shit Kasich has a lot of love to go around
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015

I was not expecting to hear applause for gay marriage!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Did that

Was that

Was that what I thought I heard?
posted by Ashen at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Rand Paul, opinions aren't law.
posted by Windigo at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015

If you're looking for a drink, may I suggest 12 oz (Goslings) ginger beer + some (Lolailo) sangria and orange juice? And if you have any of that on hand, can I have some? I ran out of sangria.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

OR MY GUNS
posted by shadow vector at 7:31 PM on August 6, 2015

Hmm, a glimmer of hope. I'm sure I'll find it crushed
posted by Countess Elena at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Heartly felt.
posted by box at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Kasich is winning my vote for "slightly less evil"
posted by gingerbeer at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015

NO. JUST NO.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015

Gaysich? That was actually wonderful.
posted by hal9k at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh fuck here we go
posted by Ashen at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015

"I would love my lesbian daughter if the Supreme Court says it's OK."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015 [17 favorites]

Rand Paul doesn't answer questions, and Megyn Kelly doesn't feel like making him. "Do you think the Civil Rights Act applies to homosexuals?" "THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE IN THE BUSINESS OF MARRIAGE!" "Good answer."
posted by koeselitz at 7:32 PM on August 6, 2015

Kasich slightly lifted me up, and then Paul cast me right back down again. Ugh, I hate everything.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Did he actually say ""I don’t want my marriage or my guns registered in Washington"? These folks really are ammosexual.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

I feel like the Black Live Matter section of this debate was a little perfunctory and glossed over.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015

'Straight Outta Compton?'

That's not really an A+ ad buy.
posted by box at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

Rand Paul doesn't want his marraige registered in Washington? Did he file taxes as married? He does know that the Social Security Admin tracks these things, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Holy crap, I just got a "Straight Out Of Compton" ad on the break. That's some advertising brilliance right there, people.
posted by koeselitz at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I actually think Kasich has gotten more moderate during his terms.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:34 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

was a little perfunctory and glossed over.

Like the pyramids are a little pile of rocks.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

A 5 second perfunctory answer was the entirety of #blacklivesmatter? Well then.
posted by naju at 7:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Comments here have all the snarkiness of msnbc, forgetting That about half of the country is going to vote for one of those on stage this evening
posted by Postroad at 7:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

There has been not a single moment of this evening' s viewing choice I have regretted.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

> If you're looking for a drink,

gingerbeer has switched from bourbon to mezcal. I guess Mexico is taking over our debate drinking, even!
posted by rtha at 7:35 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

I can't tell if they glossed over the Black Lives Matter movement because none of them are actually equipped to answer, or if they know that their answers are going to give the movement more power.
posted by Ashen at 7:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Did I miss it, or has Walker not really talked much about his fight with the unions? I figured he'd be leaning hard on it as his prime accomplishment, but I can't recall him mentioning it.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

We haven't forgotten, Postroad. It's why most of us are quite drunk.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

I haven't heard 'ammosexual' before, zombieflanders -- I love it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Guys, so far Trump is the clear star of this show. It's not even close. They're really eating it up.

I think he could.... become president
posted by naju at 7:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Comments here have all the snarkiness of msnbc, forgetting That about half of the country is going to vote for one of those on stage this evening

We are all well aware of that. It doesn't make these clowns less stupid.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Postroad, I don't think anybody is really operating under the impression that a goofy liveblog thread is meant to be the model for anything other than a goofy liveblog thread.
posted by cortex at 7:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

absolutely do not speak that into the universe naju I will literally drink myself into an early death
posted by Ashen at 7:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Trump is good on television.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Six years ago I had lunch with the chairman of my county GOP party (also its largest donor), and he was asking me about gay marriage and my opinions (we are both Catholic), and he was like, "I'd rather they called it civil unions, but whatever, I just want stable families, if they want to call it gay marriage, that's fine, it'll help children and it's not really my business." I think midwestern Republicans like Kasich quit caring about stopping gay marriage 5 years ago, other than pro forma.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

> gingerbeer has switched from bourbon to mezcal. I guess Mexico is taking over our debate drinking, even!

In honor of our invading illegal southern neighbors, I am drinking mezcal. Drink it while you can, people, before Trump builds a wall!
posted by gingerbeer at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Somebody just sacrificed a live cat to the altar of Trump!
posted by Diagonalize at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015

"We have people in Washington who don't know what they are doing"

YOU DON'T SAY
posted by Ashen at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Leave no one behind, a policy Trump opposes.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015

Buy Iran!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015

In other news, I have no bourbon. I have no hard anything. I keep forgetting to buy booze in Huntsville, so I'm drinking a lot of good local beer. This is a pretty long debate, so that's probably for the best.
posted by cortex at 7:38 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

WHO WANTS TO PITCH THE 'TRADING PLACES' REBOOT WITH ME AND TRUMP EXCEPT INSTEAD OF ORANGE JUICE IT'S IRAN

bill hader is onboard.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:39 PM on August 6, 2015

absolutely do not speak that into the universe naju I will literally drink myself into an early death

I'd say that you guys should escape and come to Australia, but our fearless leader is a gibbering loon of a lizard person whose least repellent trait is that he literally eats raw onions in front of the press. With the skin on.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [8 favorites]

The real winners in this debate are all the people watching at home who knew from the jump that turning this into drinking game was more of a marathon deal than a sprint.

My hat's off to y'all.
posted by Ashen at 7:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I mean, good on Kasich for answering that question like a man with a functioning heart, but as an Ohioan he's really wretched on the whole unconditional love thing. Please y'all believe this. Dude is not a friendly cuddle moderate.

Just pumped up the tequila levels.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:39 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

In other news, I have no bourbon. I have no hard anything. I keep forgetting to buy booze in Huntsville, so I'm drinking a lot of good local beer. This is a pretty long debate, so that's probably for the best.

No, trust me, whiskey is making this rule. You are missing out, bro!
posted by Drinky Die at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Of course they've commited acts of cyber-war (whatever that is). And of course we have. There are basically no consequences for anyone.
posted by Nomiconic at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2015

Reagan has magical powers, guys!
posted by Diagonalize at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm having a sip of beer every time I'm disgusted. Dunno if I can keep up this pace.
posted by box at 7:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Is "militarily" a real word? I keep saying it over and over, but my drunk husband isn't helping.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

The good doctor sounds like he prescribed himself the good stuff this evening.
posted by zennie at 7:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Our Navy is the smallest size since 1917."

We have nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.

Didn't Obama kill that meme with the line about horses and bayonets?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:41 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

This is a pretty long debate, so that's probably for the best.

Yeah, I'm feeling the manhattans I had during the kiddy table debate.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:42 PM on August 6, 2015

Basically I hope no one is taking a shot every time Reagan has been mentioned. Get your ass to an ER right now.
posted by Windigo at 7:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Everytime Carson talks and you get the shots of Walker nodding along, I can only imagine Strong Bad-style muttering agreement noises.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Did FOX just air a preview for Straight Outta Compton directly after the black lives matter question?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

YES. YES THEY DID.
posted by Ashen at 7:43 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh shit, they just asked Huckabee whether trans people should be allowed to serve in the military. This is hideous.
posted by koeselitz at 7:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

"The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things" Huckabee
posted by leslies at 7:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Huckabee 2016: Kill people and break things.
posted by box at 7:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Did someone just say he'd follow Russia's lead in foreign policy?

Need more gin.
posted by zennie at 7:43 PM on August 6, 2015

"The purpose of the military is to kill things and break things" Huckabee

And then did he say "like rigid gender binaries" or did I hallucinate that?
posted by escabeche at 7:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [17 favorites]

Did Huckabee really try to imply that our military is shrinking because we have to pay for surgeries for trans servicepeople?
posted by Diagonalize at 7:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

"Pencil to paper," like anyone's done that in forty years
posted by Countess Elena at 7:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I keep trying to decide who I hate the most and it keeps being the last person who spoke.
posted by octothorpe at 7:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [49 favorites]

More mush'n for the push'n!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Wait my live stream just turned into a British talk show about the spice girls. Help?
posted by geegollygosh at 7:45 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Huckabee thinks B-52s are too old, yet he manages to change the oil on his car every 5,000 miles as if he really understands how machines work.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:45 PM on August 6, 2015

http://www.playlivenew.com/2010/07/watch-fox-news-live/ worked for me.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:45 PM on August 6, 2015

Wait my live stream did not just turn into a British talk show about the spice girls. Help?
posted by Westringia F. at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

OH GOOD GOD IS SHOWING UP
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

STAY TUNED FOR GOD!
posted by Windigo at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"And: God. Stay tuned for that."
posted by koeselitz at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

God. Stay tuned for that.
posted by box at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015

Man, Christie has had those numbers drilled into him hard and he is going to spit them out if it kills him.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015

"And...GOD! Stayed tuned for that!"
posted by wallabear at 7:46 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

....did Trump donate money so he'd show?
posted by Windigo at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015

Well, show me the way / To the next whisky bar / Oh, don't ask why / Oh, don't ask why

I got this song stuck in my head a couple of days ago. Now I know why, now I know why. I quit drinking brown booze a few years ago but would consider making an exception tonight.
posted by maggieb at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Did FOX just air a preview for Straight Outta Compton directly after the black lives matter question?

To be fair, Fox has never been afraid of cross-promotional aggression.

I want to see what Jeb has to say on the trans folks in the military question. I know Huck will go fundie, let me see what the plausible candidate has to say. I don't think a single person will ever ask him that question in this entire campaign. This is the sort of thing you need protesters in the audience for.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Huckabee/Fred Durst 2016: Kill people and break stuff!
posted by FJT at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

> Need more gin.

There is not enough gin in the world.

Wait, did she just say they were going to let the candidates make their closing statements "and...God!"

what
posted by rtha at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015

best ticket 2106: dedpul/spoderman

gop y u do dis
posted by Avenger at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015

As Churchill said, never have so many proxy- iolated IP so much for so little.
posted by cortex at 7:47 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

My stream died. Sad panda.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

[damned slow cable feed]
posted by wallabear at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015

Are the debate moderators also playing drinking games?
posted by rmless at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015

If God shows up at the end this is the best Christmas special ever
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

If they ask Trump about God and Trump manages to imply that he is the only God in his life that matters I think my night will be complete.
posted by cortex at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

http://www.hulkusc.com/watch-fox-news-live-streaming/

http://www.livenewschat.eu/the-republican-debates-live-stream/

Couple alternate streaming options
posted by Panjandrum at 7:48 PM on August 6, 2015

Well, I'm not suffering from constipation, but I can see as how you might think I was full of shit.
posted by box at 7:49 PM on August 6, 2015

God won't show up. God doesn't go to Cleveland.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:49 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

I'm trying to decide if I think the Straight Outta Compton commercials or the Dulcolax ones are more appropriate right about now.
posted by Diagonalize at 7:49 PM on August 6, 2015

Metafilter: Are the debate moderators also playing drinking games?
posted by bird internet at 7:50 PM on August 6, 2015

oh tender lols
posted by Countess Elena at 7:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Word from God, ohhhh shit.
posted by box at 7:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I actually cannot wait to hear what Trump says God has told him
posted by koeselitz at 7:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

The son of an evangelist right there on the stage hangs dogs for fun
posted by Countess Elena at 7:50 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I am unsure if voices from god are a good basis for governance.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Holy fuck, Jesus stole that guys heart.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:51 PM on August 6, 2015

Oh man, that question is better than I could have hoped!
posted by JDHarper at 7:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Mailman dad again!
posted by rtha at 7:51 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Drink every time Kasich says 'mailman'
posted by Itaxpica at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Noooooo, not the mailman again!
posted by Diagonalize at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yeah, John, we know dad was a mailman.
posted by wallabear at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

GOOD LORD KASICH WE KNOW YOUR FATHER WAS A MAILMAN ALREADY
posted by koeselitz at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

We need a real conservative. A consistent conservative. A really nutty, disconcerting, unelectably wild-eyed conservative.
posted by cortex at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

are they just going to list what their parents did for a living?
posted by nadawi at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

heh
posted by koeselitz at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I actually cannot wait to hear what Trump says God has told him

Please handle snakes, Please handle snakes, Please handle snakes
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [25 favorites]

Wow Kasich just called out his Mom.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015

One time a girl broke up with me because "she felt like God was telling her it wasn't working" and I responded that "God hadn't said anything to me about it". (We were 13).
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

I liked that for even Cruz the GWB "God literally speaks to me," response was too insane. For Cruz, God speaks in scripture. This country...why did we inflict that man on ourselves?
posted by Drinky Die at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I am unsure if voices from god are a good basis for governance.

it's up there with strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords
posted by leotrotsky at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [28 favorites]

"How is Elvis, and have you seen him lately?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

God to Trump: EAT SOME MORE PILLS PILLHEAD
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:52 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Kasich has some fucking Chuck Norris hand language going on.
posted by cortex at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ooh. Potato found religion!
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Walker makes me want to puke.
posted by wallabear at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Walker: I'm an imperfect man

No shit Sherlock.
posted by Windigo at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

A-h-and G-h-od SPEAKSsss.... through thah bible!

There can be miracles.

If you believe.

Though hope is frail,

It can be defended by a strong military...

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND JESUS
posted by zennie at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Kasich is impressing me here, which is probably a sign that he has absolutely no chance.
posted by box at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015

God apparently calls Scott Walker. That's fairly progressive.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015

Lol I think the next one is going to just drop to his knees and start praying on the stage to prove his Jesusyness.
posted by gatorae at 7:53 PM on August 6, 2015

oh yes God is so proud of you Scott Walker for breaking Wisconsin's unions.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

Hurry up guys, I'm flipping to The Daily Show in five minutes.
posted by Windigo at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015

What about the veterans and god talking to you about them? What about God's opinion on Cecil the lion, and how you can use that controversy to help veterans and the gays?
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

GOD AND THE VETERANS
posted by Nomiconic at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015

"Senator Rubio, what does God think about the veterans?"
posted by Diagonalize at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

God + veterans bonus round. This is like in Metroid Prime where you beat the boss but then there's a second stage.
posted by cortex at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

Oh for Christ's sake
posted by Ashen at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

"God has blessed us with dead soldier children" isn't exactly a great look dude.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:54 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

...and someone else has come to the stage and asked about the bald eagles... so, same question... God, the Veterans, Bald Eagles, and.. uh... the 1985 New York Yankees? And race?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

But wait, the veterans! The races! Somebody said it above: this is great television.
posted by box at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Ooh back to race relations! And...god? For Carson!
posted by rtha at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015

"Ben Carson, same question but remind us that you're black please."
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [29 favorites]

God + veterans + race is the obvious double-twist analogy to the third phase of said Metroid Prime boss.
posted by cortex at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Oooooooo he said 'fake race wars'
posted by Windigo at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015

What does god think about the current highway work bidding system?
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

"So, black guy: please tell us about race. That's what you're here for."
posted by koeselitz at 7:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

God shows up. "Listen, guys, don't kill people and break things."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

Of all the candidates I expected to hear the phrase "race war" from, Carlson was not at the top of my list.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

It's outrageous to me that Facebook apparently participated with this debate but as far as I am aware is not hosting a free stream for it.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm bored
posted by bird internet at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015

WHAT

NO TRUMP GOD

WHAT
posted by cortex at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [10 favorites]

Holy shit, Scott Walker really is nodding in agreement to everything Carson is saying.
posted by Dalby at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

"Crack somebody's head open and you really can't tell what color they are. Brains are mostly grayish-pink, you see."
posted by Diagonalize at 7:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [13 favorites]

"May the last king be strangled with the guts of the last priest, and God Bless the United States of America."
posted by Countess Elena at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [18 favorites]

Ben Carson forgot to work God into his neurophysiology-related answer...
posted by FreelanceBureaucrat at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015

Bragging about government work doesn't play well with this crowd.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015

ONLY TRUMP GOD
posted by Sangermaine at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015

I'm suddenly thinking Kasich's father was Cliff Claven.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [14 favorites]

God isn't gonna make it. These are the sorts of men that make God drink, and he isn't the drinkin' and drivin' sort.
posted by Windigo at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015

AS A BRAIN DOCTOR I DO NOT SEE RACE ONLY SWEET SWEET GOOPS
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [18 favorites]

i am so mad they didn't ask trump about jesus and race and his dad's job.
posted by nadawi at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

KASICH BINGO!
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:57 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Is now an appropriate time to mention that my dad and Christie went to the same High School? Both are proud Livingston Lancers!
posted by Panjandrum at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I like your tie but not your fake tan.
posted by zennie at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015

So much fighting and combat from christie.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015

TRUMPS FOR THE TRUMP GOD
posted by mad bomber what bombs at midnight at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [15 favorites]

These guys are all spending a lot of time at the border. Perhaps...T for Trump, S for Scott Walker...TSUNAMI? Are they an illuminated cabal called TSUNAMI?

YOU KNOW WHAT TSUNAMI RHYMES WITH THOUGH...

B
E
N
G
H
A
Z
I
posted by sparkletone at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Rand Paul conspicuously the only man on this stage not mentioning his father.
posted by cortex at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015 [22 favorites]

I've been to Baltimore.
posted by box at 7:58 PM on August 6, 2015

I've gone to Baltimore too! The odds!
posted by zennie at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

My dad is also a former Vet for Peace and staunch bleeding heart liberal though, so I don't think he'll be voting Christie.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Rand Paul the first republican to not mention his parents, wonder why...
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

why are we getting the resume of their parents??
posted by nadawi at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015

SURPRISE CHALLENGER APPEARS: ZOMBIE REAGAN
posted by Sangermaine at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015

cortex: “WHAT NO TRUMP GOD WHAT”

I think you misunderstood the question. When they asked "does God have a message for you," they were asking if the candidates had spoken to Donald Trump recently.
posted by koeselitz at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

Bartender Trumps mailman.
posted by box at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Paul, your hair is what makes you different than the other dudes.
posted by Windigo at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

They are putting off Trump to troll us Daily Show viewers.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump and me flipping to the Daily Show are on a COLLISION COURSE.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Can we now adjourn to the Jon Stewart thread to live blog his last show?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:59 PM on August 6, 2015

Next, lunch.
posted by box at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015

"Let's Make America Great Again"

I've officially hit Bingo so many times I almost didn't call it.
posted by Ashen at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015

I need to know what everyone's dad did so I can make an educated evaluation.

So far I know -

Cruz - Drunk
Kasich - Mailman
Kasich Grandfather - Coal Miner
Rubio - Bartender at the back it up bar
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Let's start persecuting religious liberty right now!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Ted Cruz is going to start persecuting religious liberty!
posted by rtha at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Next debate: "Please take 5 minutes to discuss what your father or grandfather did and how that qualifies you for president."
posted by sfkiddo at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

AS A BRAIN DOCTOR I DO NOT SEE RACE ONLY SWEET SWEET GOOPS

Really? I thought that was a very well delivered point about the ridiculousness of racial prejudice and a highlight of the debate.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:00 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I don't think Ted Cruz meant to say he wanted people to start persecuting religious liberty.
posted by cortex at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Carson prepped hard for this moment.
posted by box at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Baton Of Freedom.

All you need to do is carry that?
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Good burn, Carson! re the "only one to take out half a brain but if you go to DC you'd think someone would've done it already" /paraphrase
posted by rtha at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Freedom isn't free! It takes folks like you and me.

Freedom costs a buck o' five.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

Huck too.
posted by box at 8:01 PM on August 6, 2015

I guess the baton is like the conch.
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

why are we getting the resume of their parents??

They're all trying to establish themselves as good folk from good families who love God and hate the government
posted by Sangermaine at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Separating Siamese twins is all very well, but can he sew two twins together? Be a Uniter not a Divider!
posted by Rumple at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015 [25 favorites]

As an atheist, I want to know which one of these candidates will burn me at the stake quickest?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015 [18 favorites]

Daily Show thread, btw
posted by Rhaomi at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

HE HAS A HARLEY
posted by Windigo at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

And a Harley.
posted by box at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

aggressively normal lol forever
posted by mostly vowels at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Legitimate lol, huck.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

The bosses are physically large?
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2015

Scott Walker is a guy with a wife and two kids and a Harley and people looking at him on his Harley thinking "jesus, look at his poser on his Harley".
posted by cortex at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [33 favorites]

Oh, god, I need a shower after Walker's bullshit spew.
posted by Diagonalize at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

They don't just give Harleys to anyone!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'll be in Baltimore next week. Is it too late for me to be a GOP candidate?
posted by pemberkins at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

that was a weird stumble out of bush there at the end.
posted by nadawi at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015

Not a word about climate change from any of these guys - no questions either but of course it doesn't exist right.
posted by leslies at 8:03 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

OK Trump, close us out. I need to change the channel.
posted by Windigo at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I thought that was an incredible point about the ridiculousness of racial prejudice and a highlight of the debate.

After Dr. Carson is done performing standard of care procedures on their brain, they have to go back out into the rest of the world, where people look at their skin, not their brain.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Millions and millions of cars.
posted by box at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Holy shit that was weird.
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015

It's over!
posted by gingerbeer at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015

Get me out of here.
posted by box at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015

"it's over, are you relieved? Heh heh."
posted by wallabear at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

So what I've gathered from this absolute shitshow of a debate is that we should all be voting #1 Quidnunc Kid
posted by Ashen at 8:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [52 favorites]

LET'S RAM THOSE FAMILIES ON STAGE
posted by cortex at 8:05 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

We all survived! Right? Everyone okay? Anyone need a cold cloth, cold drink, piece of pie*, etc.?

*sorry, no actual pie available
posted by rtha at 8:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

If the polls show Trump wins this debate, I will not post about this election for the next three months. (Toxx!) Because, my reputation as a sensible realist on politics (stop laughing!) will not survive if I am wrong on this.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:06 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

But quidnunc kid is an admitted Mixtapologist...
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:08 PM on August 6, 2015

How drunk must Jon Stewart be right now?

Don't you get it? He's won. He's free. He's escaped this hell. He got out. He never has to watch a single second of this horseshit ever again unless he wants to. No one would blame if he didn't!
posted by sparkletone at 8:08 PM on August 6, 2015 [16 favorites]

i am ded
posted by shakespeherian at 8:08 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

shit shit no crap I left the stream on and now I'm accidentally watching Megyn Kelly please make it stop
posted by koeselitz at 8:09 PM on August 6, 2015

That was surreal.
posted by wallabear at 8:09 PM on August 6, 2015

Did that really happen or have I been hallucinating for the last couple of hours?
posted by homunculus at 8:10 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

I think Bush and Rubio, and maybe Kasich (but it's temporary) get a plus here, just for looking like the grownups in the room. Trump is, meh, still Trump, and the also-rans also ran.
posted by box at 8:11 PM on August 6, 2015

Can we all agree to never mention this again
posted by theodolite at 8:12 PM on August 6, 2015 [7 favorites]

I need a shower.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Based on my sample size of about three people, the clear winner among left-of-center but moderate former Republicans who could be talked into voting for the right GOP candidate is John Kasich. I assume, therefore, that his campaign will fold before January.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 8:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Capsule review: too much other-than-Trump.
posted by cortex at 8:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile, in the real world, Chuck Schumer just came out against the Iran deal, so the winner was actually Lindsey Graham the whole time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Google image search autocompletes 'scott walker harley' if you type 's'
posted by theodolite at 8:16 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

I predict the polls of Republican voters will give Bush or Kasich the win.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

That was a lot of fun.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:18 PM on August 6, 2015

Boy that was the lousiest episode of American Gladiators ever.

I saw someone on twitter tweet: "Why does this megachurch have 10 pastors?"
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [34 favorites]

Actually quite boring.
posted by interrobang at 8:18 PM on August 6, 2015

Trump/Dog of Wisdom 2016
posted by cortex at 8:21 PM on August 6, 2015 [6 favorites]

Frank Luntz is a genius. There is a movie about this man that will win an oscar for directing and screenwriting...but none of us aspiring writers will be able to write it. He will do it by numbers.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:21 PM on August 6, 2015

> Did that really happen or have I been hallucinating for the last couple of hours?

drugs are bad mmmkay
posted by rtha at 8:22 PM on August 6, 2015

Frank Luntz's focus group is disappointed with Trump. One guy said he seemed too much like a politician, one guy said he was too mean, and one guy said he expected Trump to be more presidential.
posted by sporkwort at 8:24 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I need to know what everyone's dad did so I can make an educated evaluation.

So far I know -

Cruz - Drunk

Also, professional theocrat.
posted by audi alteram partem at 8:25 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

My second grader was passively listening while playing agar.io, after a prompt for bedtime, he gave me a funny look and asked if the White House is on fire...
posted by childofTethys at 8:26 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

As soon as the debate ended, it began raining here in San Francisco. End times, apparently.
posted by rtha at 8:28 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Yes, that was surreal. I'm pretty sure I entered a dream state after "And next... God."
posted by saul wright at 8:29 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

As soon as the debate ended, it began raining here in San Francisco. End times, apparently.

Dude, just look at the forecast. They're predicting a chance of firestorms.
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:30 PM on August 6, 2015

As soon as the debate ended, it began raining here in San Francisco. End times, apparently.


It's long past time we just admit God loves San Fransisco most of all and speaks through their atmospheric conditions. Gay marriage gets legalized in America and immediately afterwards the Dead play a concert in SF and rainbows and joy fill the sky. Not end times...

Beginning times for Americans having an expanded point of view on the idea that we should all love and support each other to the greatest extent we can.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

> Dude, just look at the forecast. They're predicting a chance of firestorms.

PRAISE BE MY SACRIFICES HAVE WORKED!
posted by rtha at 8:36 PM on August 6, 2015 [1 favorite]

I need to know what everyone's dad did so I can make an educated evaluation.

So far I know -

Cruz - Drunk
Kasich - Mailman
Kasich Grandfather - Coal Miner
Rubio - Bartender at the back it up bar
posted by Lord_Pall at 11:00 PM on August 6

Chris Christie's dad did something with ice cream. And was the first person ever to graduate from college.

I think we all know about Paul's dad, Bush's dad, Trump's dad. I don't know anything about Huckabee's dad but if I had to guess he was probably a farmer or a pastor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:37 PM on August 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Huckabee's dad was a fireman and mechanic.
posted by saul wright at 8:38 PM on August 6, 2015

For those of us in need of intense kitten therapy there are fresh batches: Tip gave birth to five yesterday and Sisko, a wild feral, was in the process of bearing her eighth when I last looked in.
posted by maggieb at 8:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Yes, that was surreal. I'm pretty sure I entered a dream state after "And next... God.

God: "Holy shit, leave me out of this."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:40 PM on August 6, 2015 [12 favorites]

Frank Luntz is also a literal horror movie zombie, keep that in mind when you watch the focus group.

I don't say literal when I mean figurative. LITERAL ZOMBIE
posted by Drinky Die at 8:43 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Frank Luntz's Focus Group
Thursday at Black Cat
Doors 7:00
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:44 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

For those of us in need of intense kitten therapy there are fresh batches: Tip gave birth to five yesterday and Sisko, a wild feral, was in the process of bearing her eighth when I last looked in.

Just to pair nicely with the debate, I think one of the kittens on the livestream died.

Yeesh.

I tried to find a happy older video, but failed. Poor kitty :(
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:45 PM on August 6, 2015

Ben Carson is no rocket scientist.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:51 PM on August 6, 2015

It's about time we had a president who separated siamese twins.
posted by saul wright at 8:53 PM on August 6, 2015 [5 favorites]

Go Huck, we don't need no illegals or prostitutes getting our hard earned tax money. Bless you all, especially the illegals, and MOST especially the prostitutes. As a matter of fact, there is this one guy that mows my lawn.... He is OK, I think... He is not illegal to me, yet, I mean if illegal means like charging me $20 too much for cleaning my gutters? Because, I would feel like he was illegal, you know, in a capitalist kind of way, like he gets to use the same streets that I fucking work hard to keep paved, I mean, well...sure, I could have asked him for some paperwork to prove his eligibility, you know, before he abused with his unlawfulness, that our God damn government needs to fix for me. And, of course, those prostitutes, those pretty, pretty, err damnable prostitutes!

Yes, all in favor, err opposed to prostitutes, raise a hand, no, the left hand. Yes, raise taxes, err, no raise your hand on a bible and...so, you all have parents. Gurgle, coo. What a striking resemblance We have. You are my kind of people, you not dolphin mammals. Can I cuddle between Huck and Chris while they clean the Jebs glasses?

No more drinking games. I always loose.
posted by breadbox at 8:56 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

Frank Luntz
posted by dilaudid at 8:59 PM on August 6, 2015 [3 favorites]

"By a show of hands, how many of you have made a woman orgasm?"
::9 men look around nervously::
Trump: THAT IS NOT A REAL THING, MEGYN.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:13 PM on August 6, 2015 [64 favorites]

Obama hugs vs. 9/11 hugs. WHICH ARE THE MORE AMERICAN HUGS?
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 9:17 PM on August 6, 2015 [4 favorites]

I've seen people commenting about Frank Luntz all night and thought it was a 30 Rock joke, apparently I was confusing Frank Luntz with Lutz and Frank.
posted by DynamiteToast at 9:18 PM on August 6, 2015 [11 favorites]

was that surreal or what? i feel like i just watched a movie.

I feel like I just watched a *Lars von Trier* movie. I hate humanity.
posted by uosuaq at 9:33 PM on August 6, 2015 [23 favorites]

Who says MAD Magazine isn't relevant anymore? Their suggested Questions for the Debate were better then (and a couple the same as) the questions actually used.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:06 PM on August 6, 2015

Oof. Had guests in from out of town. Sounds like we made a mistake going to the circus instead.
posted by notyou at 10:32 PM on August 6, 2015

I feel like I just watched a *Lars von Trier* movie. I hate humanity.

So I wasn't the only one who saw a dead America ripping its own guts out and then murmuring "CHAOS...REIGNS"
posted by clockzero at 10:55 PM on August 6, 2015 [9 favorites]

Just to pair nicely with the debate, I think one of the kittens on the livestream died.

Tip and Sisko's kittens are doing just fine at the moment. Tip did have a very little girl (Eep), but she's had no problems latching onto the milkbar and gained a whole lot of weight over the past two days. Sisko is being very protective of her babies, and seven out of eight of them are dark in color so it's hard to differentiate them, but so far they seem to be well nourished. Both moms seem to be total pros at this, which is both fortunate and sad, because they have probably had a difficult life so far. At least they'll never have to do this again!

There was a litter of two kittens who passed away last week, Tadpole and his brother Pollywog. That was indeed very sad - they were born to a mama (Lilypad) who was just a kitten herself and had no idea how to care for babies. Lily has since been spayed and adopted, and is loving her new home.

Sorry if this is a derail; I can't speak to the debate, because I knew watching the kittens would be an infinitely more satisfying use of my time.
posted by Meghamora at 1:55 AM on August 7, 2015 [8 favorites]

ELECTION 2016 = THE HANGOVER PT IV
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm doing fine, you amateurs. Greek yogurt and Lapsang Souchong=recovery.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:26 AM on August 7, 2015

Wish I could say the same about the NYT.
posted by box at 4:28 AM on August 7, 2015

Sitting here with a cup of strong black coffee and trying to convince myself that last night was just a hallucination and that our political process isn't completely and totally insane.
posted by octothorpe at 4:31 AM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]

If Trump went into business as a used car salesman and specifically targeted conservative men...he could add a few billion to his net worth in under a year.

As a candidate though, he is not gonna make it.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:40 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm having a very hard time dealing with the fact that one of these morons could be the leader of the United States of America next year.

I've been joking and joking about their idiotic stances and inane quotes but really I keep drifting to thinking about what my escape plan is if one of them actually gets elected. I don't want it to come down to this situation.
posted by rachaelfaith at 4:58 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

As a candidate though, he is not gonna make it.

I dunno. The Trumpadactyl feeds exclusively on spotlight and attention. As long as he gets more of those than the other candidates, I think he'll keep the ball rolling. Plus, if he did drop out, there's the problem of engineering an acceptable excuse for quitting. The Donald isn't a quitter. Quitting is for losers.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:01 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trumpadactyl

...Trumpfinger? Where did that one come from?
posted by clockzero at 5:16 AM on August 7, 2015

Trumpadactyl

This is the most pterable portmanteau I've ever seen.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:43 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

We'll see what the Spin Doctors have to say about these ten princes, but:

Winners: Bush (picked his spots, seemed like he's already running in the general), Rubio (he's not, but there were times he seemed like the smartest guy on the dais), Kasich (walked into the room #9 or #10, walked out in the middle of the pack), Christie (nobody mentioned the bridge, and nothing stuck to him, including that dude he hugged in AC).

Losers: Paul (showed, again, that he's really not a very good campaigner), Cruz (Tea Party guy, debate guy? Didn't really show it), Carson (had the chance to say something serious about race, didn't take it).

No change: Huckabee (made a hot line, did not make a hot song), Walker (as the realistic #2, he should've been talking to the electorate instead of the base), Trump (still a very popular cartoon, still not going to be the nominee).
posted by box at 5:46 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Since he's not owned by FOX's owners I wonder if they will actively campaign against him once he's nominated and actually back Clinton? That'll be a weird sight.
posted by Artw at 5:49 AM on August 7, 2015

I just tried to give my husband the highlights...and found myself spouting gibberish. Zygotes, pimps, hugs, brains, transpeople in the military, Siamese twins, the Wall, mailman, and "I made Hillary come to my wedding."
Nothing made sense this morning; it was like trying to recall a fever dream.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 AM on August 7, 2015 [29 favorites]

Are you not ENTERTAINED?!?!
posted by blue_beetle at 6:01 AM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

I kept thinking that they didn't seem to know that not just Republicans were allowed to watch this. I wanted to say "hey, we can hear you too".
posted by octothorpe at 6:27 AM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

By saying "we need to end sanctuary cities," he merely meant that, as president, he would institute martial law in California and send in federal troops to enforce stricter immigration laws, effectively annexing San Francisco to the District of Columbia.

I think it's funny that you phrase it that way, since DC, at the local level, is also a sanctuary city.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:29 AM on August 7, 2015

They do that every time though. Post-nomination is the "actually I'm a reasonable centrist and didn't mean that about gassing the poor" round.
posted by Artw at 6:29 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

The thing about Hillary coming to Trump's wedding just made him seem like he was running for Godfather. The whole point was "I do people favors and then they have to do me favors," which is a totally a model for a system of government, just not a very good one.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:32 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

From twitter:
Florida Man Can’t Believe He's the Least Crazy Person on Stage.
Do you think we should allow all audience members to bring guns to tonight's debate? If no, why not?
GOPDebate .
Every GOP candidate is between a Facebook and Fox News logo. It's like a garbage sandwich.
Ah shit. Can't not see it now
posted by growabrain at 6:37 AM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

The whole point was "I do people favors and then they have to do me favors," which is a totally a model for a system of government, just not a very good one.

"Technically if I bankrupt a company (or America) it's not me that's going bankrupt" doesn't seem like a great selling point either, but we are not the target market.
posted by Artw at 6:39 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

It was said in another thread by someone in the same circumstance but it bears repeating again and again and again: as someone who had to live through Rob Ford as mayor, you dismiss Donald Trump at your peril. He can win in the general. Hell, he might be the most electable GOP candidate at this point. I honestly wouldn't bet against him becoming president.

What too many people fail to either appreciate or publicly acknowledge is that Trump is a pure distillation of the values of the Republican party. When he's refusing to apologize or back down for things that are shockingly racist or misogynist, he's just refusing to apologize for Republican Values. Why commentators seem to think that won't resonate even with swing voters is beyond me. A lot of swing voters are stupid bigots who are torn between voting with their economic self-interest and voting to spite the women and minorities and hippies that in the good old days they could at least know they were above in social status. Trump isn't just a meretricious hellclown, he's the most meretricious of the hellclowns on that stage, and that mean's he'll remain the best argument for working class white men to cut off their nose to spite their face.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 6:42 AM on August 7, 2015 [25 favorites]

Primetime debate transcript, from TIME (up 10 hours ago- impressive work, somebody).
posted by filthy light thief at 6:56 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

RobotVoodooPower: Did Facebook buy Fox recently?

They co-presented the event (Fox even titled it the Fox-Facebook debate, which sounds like a debate of "Which is Worse: Fox or Facebook?"), and had a bunch of sucky tie-ins ("Facebook breaks down what voters think about GOP debate, candidates" - as if what people said on Facebook was actually a valid and representative selection of the population, like an actual poll done by someone who understands what is needed to run a statistically sound poll).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:05 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

So attacking the media is just too old school a tactic for Donald. Now he's calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo. Stay classy, Donald.
posted by rdr at 7:07 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

It just shows that, more and more, Facebook is for older people.

That's why Snapchat is sponsoring the Democratic debates.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:10 AM on August 7, 2015

Trump just told Rand Paul, "I don't think you heard me. You're having a hard time tonight."

Heh. He can be entertaining.

I think he's had practice being entertaining.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:12 AM on August 7, 2015

...as someone who had to live through Rob Ford as mayor, you dismiss Donald Trump at your peril.

Mark these words well, my southern neighbours. When any pretense that civil society demands the civility on which it rests falls away, the dog-whistle message murmured behind hands held to mouths peters out. In its place, the slouching beast at the podium opens its fetid maw and, on a puff of putrescent breath, issues forth a piercing screech.

Some run away, hands over their ears. Others stand, rapt, morbid curiosity overwhelming their visceral urge to flee.

Others are overcome with joy. They clap and cheer, for to their ears this is a sweet Orphic hymn. Their applause reaches a crescendo.

So it shall be.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:15 AM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

So attacking the media is just too old school a tactic for Donald. Now he's calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo. Stay classy, Donald.

I didn't have particularly high hopes for the moderators, but Kelly actually did a decent job. She followed up well with Trump when he tried to misogynistic joke away his misogynistic comments. She came out looking like she should run for president before anyone on stage.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:19 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

I get the Rob Ford warnings, but many of the other people on the stage with Trump have implemented actively destructive policies in their states (or at the Federal level). As someone who has lived through 5 years of Gov. Walker (and years before that having him as County Executive) I'm way more scared of the idea of him as president than Trump.
posted by drezdn at 7:22 AM on August 7, 2015 [5 favorites]

Ray Walston, Luck Dragon: They really do have it in for Trump

Because 1) he's loud and brash and gets all the media attention, and 2) because he's the current GOP front-runner, but has no political experience. He's the Hillary of the GOP race, even to the point of Huckabee scoring a joke to that effect:

HUCKABEE: It seems like this election has been a whole lot about a person who’s very high in the polls, that doesn’t have a clue about how to govern. A person who has been filled with scandals, and who could not lead, and, of course, I’m talking about Hillary Clinton.
(LAUGHTER)

posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

When he's refusing to apologize or back down for things that are shockingly racist or misogynist, he's just refusing to apologize for Republican Values.

For the record, the official Ten Republican Core Values (pdf)
posted by IndigoJones at 7:28 AM on August 7, 2015

Drudge Poll; who won?

Two of the results are Trump 46% and Bush 2%. (as of 9:30 a. m. CDT)

aye aye aye aye aye aye aye
posted by bukvich at 7:30 AM on August 7, 2015

Eriko's GOP Debate Drinking Game.

Go to a bar and stay as far away from TVs as possible. Drink.

For the record, I at least tied for first in Eriko's GOP Debate Drinking Game. Anybody else?
posted by eriko at 7:32 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Non-scientific poll, to be clear.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:35 AM on August 7, 2015

2) because he's the current GOP front-runner, but has no political experience. He's the Hillary of the GOP race

i'm no big fan of clinton, but whaaaa? 2 term senator, secretary of state, and even though it's not an elected position, first lady of arkansas and the united states. how is that no political experience?
posted by nadawi at 7:39 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

It was said in another thread by someone in the same circumstance but it bears repeating again and again and again: as someone who had to live through Rob Ford as mayor, you dismiss Donald Trump at your peril. He can win in the general. Hell, he might be the most electable GOP candidate at this point. I honestly wouldn't bet against him becoming president.

No, he really hasn't a hope in hell of winning the national vote. Every time he opens his mouth he alienates someone. He might get the racist vote, the anyone-but-a-Democrat vote, the all-politicians-are-assholes vote, but how can he win without women, unions, and minorities? He seems to think that all women are either pigs or bimbos and while that might have played in the 80's, we are past holding our noses and voting for men who hold contempt for all females. Hell, I think even Meghan Kelly would vote against him at this point.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:42 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

It's hard to know what to think. It seems like the Kochs would be able to control/spend enough at the Republican primaries to keep Trump from winning the nomination in favor of whoever they prefer (Walker seemed like a frontrunner for that, though who knows). I mean, deep down, the Republicans only sort of care what their screeching non-billionaire electorate thinks, donors call the real shots. At least, that was my impression. So even if Trump is favored vote-wise, won't the Kochs find a way to stop him? Or is their power not that big?
posted by emjaybee at 7:49 AM on August 7, 2015

“All the women on The Apprentice [at the peace negotiation/state funeral/White House dinner] flirted with me — consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected. A sexual dynamic is always present between people, unless you are asexual.” (“Trump: How to Get Rich[er While Being The Sexiest President EVER,” 2024])

posted by Huck500 at 7:51 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

For the record, the official Ten Republican Core Values (pdf)

Ten values, numbered 1-3 and then 1-7, 'cause why not. Also at least three of them are directly contrary to the current interpretation of the Constitution, which I guess isn't that bad if you're the type to be still set on anti-flag desecration laws in 2015.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:51 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

filthy light thief: 2) because he's the current GOP front-runner, but has no political experience. He's the Hillary of the GOP race

nadawi: i'm no big fan of clinton, but whaaaa? 2 term senator, secretary of state, and even though it's not an elected position, first lady of arkansas and the united states. how is that no political experience?

Sorry, I was speaking of Trump and reasons everyone beat up on him. I meant the Hillary comparison in that they're both front-runners in their parties, who everyone in the GOP is attacking. Not a single mention of Bernie, if the TIME transcript is accurate.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:53 AM on August 7, 2015

Trump is far preferable to Walker.

Walker is a Believer. If you look up ideologue in the dictionary, it's got his picture. The last time I've seen a politician with this much zeal for adherence to his ideals, he was talking about needing some breathing room and final solutions. To further the comparison - neither one was that bright either.

Trump is many things, one of which is pragmatic. Snotty Wawa is that most dangerous combination of stupid and very hardworking.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:00 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Fact Check: Candidates Don't Tell The Whole Stories In First Debate (NPR, only 4 facts checked, boo)

17 candidates, 2 debates, 1 Donald Trump and plenty to fact-check (PolitiFact)

FactChecking the GOP Debate, Late Edition (MSN, with FactCheck.org)

CNN fact checks the 2016 Republican debates
posted by filthy light thief at 8:04 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm from PA . We make [Harleys] here. We can take [Scott Walker's] back, right?

Harley engines are made in Milwaukee, which is why Walker uses one to compensate show how he's a tough guy close he is to the common folk. He apparently sees no irony that a) Harleys are beyond the reach of most Wisconsinites and b) they are built by union members.
posted by carmicha at 8:04 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

I meant the Hillary comparison in that they're both front-runners in their parties, who everyone in the GOP is attacking

ahh that makes more sense. i was actually discussing this point in my home last night while the debate was going on - i think the mentions of clinton aren't just because she's a front runner, but because of how intensely fox viewers hate her. being cartoonishly anti-clinton is a good way to get a couple extra points in the polls and everyone knows it.
posted by nadawi at 8:07 AM on August 7, 2015

He apparently sees no irony that a) Harleys are beyond the reach of most Wisconsinites and b) they are built by union members.

and c) they are really crap designs -- very heavy, very loud, horribly inefficient and very expensive.

You know, basically the most GOP motorcycle engine ever made.
posted by eriko at 8:10 AM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

> Every time he opens his mouth he alienates someone. He might get the racist vote, the anyone-but-a-Democrat vote, the all-politicians-are-assholes vote, but how can he win without women, unions, and minorities?

See: The republican majority of the house and senate, and specifically seats that changed in 2014
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:27 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

As someone who has lived through 5 years of Gov. Walker (and years before that having him as County Executive) I'm way more scared of the idea of him as president than Trump.

Oh, I agree with you that Walker would likely be more destructive as president. For one thing, Trump doesn't want to gut Social Security.

One of the saving graces of the Ford mayoralty was that he was too much of a loudmouth bully and too busy getting drunk and smoking crack to implement much of his agenda. Like Ford, Trump would probably suffer the same the same inability to work with others and also find distractions from governing attractive.

But I still think a Trump presidency is more likely than a Walker presidency. Why would people want to vote for the obsequious lackey of psychopathic billionaires when they can have the real thing instead?
posted by [expletive deleted] at 8:28 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

Ten values, numbered 1-3 and then 1-7, 'cause why not.

I won't guess as to whether or how much it's intentional, but it mirrors a common partitioning of the biblical Ten Commandments into three about loyalty to god, and then seven about doing right by your fellow man.
posted by cortex at 8:30 AM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

With all this talk about kittens, I'd just like to complement our cat, Rupert, on his fine principles. After listening to Donald Trump bloviate, he declined to let me reap cheap internet points by posting photos of him wearing this custom toupee.
posted by carmicha at 8:36 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

I won't guess as to whether or how much it's intentional, but it mirrors a common partitioning of the biblical Ten Commandments into three about loyalty to god, and then seven about doing right by your fellow man.

It is basically three about loyalty to business and seven about loyalty to "values," so that works as an analogy.

It also goes without saying that it's riddled with typos and terrible grammar.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:58 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

That debate was a mess. Just wow. My neighbour and I kept being WHAT THE FUCK.

Also, can someone explain to me how Ted Cruz, who was absolutely born in Canada, can even run?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:00 AM on August 7, 2015

When I first started following US politics as a teenager, this kind of stuff was happening: Falwell, Buchanan, Robertson were all at the height of their influence within the GOP...

So I'm not exactly shocked, but man is it depressing to watch this play out now.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:08 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Also, can someone explain to me how Ted Cruz, who was absolutely born in Canada, can even run?

His mom was American. Or so he claims. Nobody has actually seen his birth certificate, and his dad hails from Communist Cuba.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:13 AM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]

isn't it funny how Trump isn't asking for Cruz' birth cert
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:17 AM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

feckless fecal fear mongering: Also, can someone explain to me how Ted Cruz, who was absolutely born in Canada, can even run?

Is Ted Cruz, born in Canada, eligible to run for president? (PolitiFact)

Two [Constitutional] provisions are obvious: The candidate must be 35 years of age and a resident of the United States for 14 years. The third qualification: He or she must be a "natural born citizen."

What does it mean to be a "natural born citizen"?

Most legal experts contend it means someone is a citizen from birth and doesn’t have to go through a naturalization process to become a citizen, noting what the Founding Fathers had as a frame of reference (British common law).

If that’s the definition, then Cruz is a natural born citizen by being born to an American mother and having her citizenship at birth.

The article goes on to discuss what "natural born citizen" means.


Pogo_Fuzzybutt: Nobody has actually seen his birth certificate

Not true: here it is when he released it in 2013.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm a little surprised, TBH, given how he's so into employing other stuff that other GOPers would consider off the table.
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on August 7, 2015

Bernie Sanders won the GOP debate -- on Twitter

.@JebBush Talk about killing jobs. When your brother left office we were hemorrhaging 800k jobs a month. And you want more of the same?

.@ScottWalker: "repeal Obamacare." Throw millions of more people off of their health insurance. Great idea. #DebateWIthBernie

What I'm hearing so far: tax breaks for the rich, more people losing health insurance and more talk about war. This is not what we need.

Will Fox and the Rs discuss criminal justice reform and the need to end police killing of unarmed African-Americans? #DebateWithBernie

The very rich get richer, everyone else poorer. And Republicans who take campaign money from billionaires have nothing significant to say.

I have to say, I love his sharp rhetoric against these guys. I love making fun of them as much as the next person, but it makes me feel a lot better to see someone seriously challenging their batshit value systems. (those are actually his personal comments as I understand it, by the way, not just his campaign - which seems fairly unusual in and of itself)
posted by dialetheia at 9:24 AM on August 7, 2015 [20 favorites]

Not true: here it is when he released it in 2013.

That's not the long form Certificate of Live Birth. What Cruz has you could buy at any novelty store for 2 bits. It's as fake as a three dollar bill.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:24 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

At the next debate they should absolutely ask Donald Trump whether Ted Cruz is eligible and it will be magic
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:27 AM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

But the nation is so polarized that there are very few people who are genuinely unsure whether they'll prefer the Democrat or the Republican. The trick is to get people to vote at all.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:30 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

nothing has made me experience such intense fremdschämen as this debate did last night

i kept moving further and further away from my laptop until i realized at one point i was standing in my bedroom doorway chugging a beer with the debate just barely audible
posted by burgerrr at 9:34 AM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]

...as someone who had to live through Rob Ford as mayor, you dismiss Donald Trump at your peril.

Would Trump be the American Rob Ford, or the American Silvio Berlusconi?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:37 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Bernie Sanders should debate one of the Republican field.
#1. It would stand a chance of being a true debate, differing points of view being presented.
#1a. It might actually be interesting.
#2. Sanders is smart enough to actually make counterpoint arguments and refute bs.
#2a. The Republican would have to get off of the clown car or be seen as ranting at the wind.
#3. It would get Sanders name out there and show him to be whip-smart.
#4. There are several GOP contenders who are desperate enough to go for it. Creds versus the socialist.
#5. Hillary should probably also do this. (Oh, how the GOPers would salivate at the chance). She needs to prove herself as more than just a packaged box. I personally need to see her as presidential. I know she can be that way, she held her own against Obama in 2008, but it's been a long time.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:38 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

(those are actually his personal comments as I understand it, by the way, not just his campaign - which seems fairly unusual in and of itself)

He had a little help with the typing, but yeah, they're his own personal comments.
posted by vverse23 at 9:41 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Bernie Sanders should debate one of the Republican field.

Nah. He should make common cause with the Republican populist.

Yes, I am suggesting a Sanders/Trump ticket. Or Trump/Sanders, I don't care which.

I'm only in it for the fireworks, folks.
posted by IndigoJones at 9:48 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

It seems like Trump really is screwing with the GOP's chances. I mean, the optics of having Fox News and the establishment candidates attack him seems likely to make his angry, mistrustful base only like him more. And he explicitly refused to rule out a third party run.
posted by overglow at 9:53 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Overnight ratings are only taken in a few (liberal-leaning) cities, which suggests millions of Democratic-leaning voters were watching. If the eventual nominee is careful to speak to the center, I think the debates will have been a great platform going into the general election.

Do you mean the eventual Democratic nominee? Because I don't remember any answers last night that A) would attract Democratic-leaning voters, and B) weren't buried under heaps of GOP red meat from the same candidate.
posted by Etrigan at 9:54 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Would Trump be the American Rob Ford, or the American Silvio Berlusconi?

He's not going to be the American version of any FOREIGNER! He will make AMERICA GREAT AGAIN by being AMERICAN!

the National Leaders Debate for the Canadian federal general elections of 2015 start today at 8pm ET/5pm PT

You can watch it for FREE online with the option of English, French, Punjabi, Cantonese Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, or Italian language subtitling

IN SOVIET CANUCKISTAN, DEBATE ACCOMMODATES YOU!
posted by nubs at 9:57 AM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

You can watch it for FREE online with the option of English, French, Punjabi, Cantonese Chinese, Mandarin Chinese, or Italian language subtitling:

Serious question: Does Canada really have that many more Italian speakers than, say, Spanish?
posted by Etrigan at 9:59 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

So I missed this but just read through the transcript (which makes the drinking game harder, but I'm up to it), and this bit blew me away:

WALKER: ... Under Obama and Clinton, we found a lot of mush over the last two years. We need to have a national security that puts steel in front of our enemies. I would send weapons to Ukraine. I would work with NATO to put forces on the eastern border of Poland and the Baltic nations, and I would reinstate, put in place back in the missile defense system that we had in Poland and in the Czech Republic. (APPLAUSE).

Is it just me, or did Walker just say: if you make me president I'll start WW3?
posted by dis_integration at 10:02 AM on August 7, 2015 [18 favorites]

Trump isn't just a meretricious hellclown, he's the most meretricious of the hellclowns on that stage, and that mean's he'll remain the best argument for working class white men to cut off their nose to spite their face.

I get where you're coming from, I'm just not convinced yet.

In the Obama/Romney election a distant relative of mine who was just hitting retirement began to publicly support Romney (via postings on Facebook primarily). Now I'm not familiar with his voting history or even his reasoning, but in conversation with my other relatives (who are virtually all lefties or at least vote Democrat) there was some surprise at this news.

I kept this part to myself, but I suspected there was some hidden racism at work. My sense was that he was holding his nose with one hand as he voted for Romney with the other.

However, I can't see the same thing happening if Trump were to be the nominee. I could see my relative choosing not to vote, but have a hard time seeing him coming out in support of Trump.

I feel like there is a complicated and ultimately distasteful calculus at play here:

• There were x% of white, male voters who voted for McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012 simply because the thought of Obama was too much to handle.
• Assuming Hilary becomes the nominee are those same (or similar) voters also going to vote *against* a woman in the same way they voted *against* an African-American?

In this (admittedly shaky) equation what is the relative weight of Trump's absurdity when stacked up against Romney's? My guess is that it would be a great deal heavier and 2016 Republican voter turnout would be at a record low.
posted by jeremias at 10:08 AM on August 7, 2015

And he explicitly refused to rule out a third party run.

That question was so blatantly obviously about getting Trump I actually giggled when it was asked.

Serious question: Does Canada really have that many more Italian speakers than, say, Spanish?

Per wikipedia, it's about on par in terms of how many people speak Italian and Spanish. At a totally pulled out of my ass guess, though, you're much more likely to find monolingual Italians than you are monolingual Spanish speakers.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:12 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Serious question: Does Canada really have that many more Italian speakers than, say, Spanish?

According to the 2011 Census data, it's about even, with a bit more Spanish speakers. But I suspect that it is a highly regional thing - for example, my sense is that there are far more Italian speakers/communities in places like Toronto than Calgary (where I live, where Spanish is definitely a language we see a fair amount of, in comparison to Italian). A lot of the monolingual Spanish speakers I have dealt with, though, are Temporary Foreign Workers who wouldn't be eligible to vote.
posted by nubs at 10:16 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Historically there have been more Italian speakers (read immigrants) than Spanish speakers, but now there are more recent immigrants who have Spanish as their mother tongue than Italian. But since the Italians have been here much longer (and were very vocal and organized about getting their needs served) there are a lot of media outlets (TV, print, radio) that offer content in Italian.
posted by sardonyx at 10:20 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

In fact, as far as Twitter was concerned, it looks like Bernie Sanders won the night:

Most-retweeted presidential candidate Tweet of #GOPDebate came from Democrat @BernieSanders:
@BernieSanders: It's over. Not one word about economic inequality, climate change, Citizens United or student debt. That's why the Rs are so out of touch.
posted by dialetheia at 10:40 AM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]

"Early overnight Nielsen ratings suggest that Thursday's Republican debate was not just the most-watched primary debate in history -- it may have been twice as big as the previous record-holder." - CNN

Overnight ratings are only taken in a few (liberal-leaning) cities, which suggests millions of Democratic-leaning voters were watching. If the eventual nominee is careful to speak to the center, I think the debates will have been a great platform going into the general election.

Yes, millions of Dems were watching and laughing/ groaning/ drinking, and retweeting Bernie Sanders.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:45 AM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yes, millions of Dems were watching and laughing/ groaning/ drinking, and retweeting Bernie Sanders.

The thing that just kills me is that if the party positions were reversed, that would definitely be the theme of the media coverage today. "Democrat debate disaster! Republicans mop up with mockery! How can the Dems possibly recover?"
posted by dialetheia at 10:49 AM on August 7, 2015

All The Best Content From The GOP Debate
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:15 AM on August 7, 2015

Nah. He should make common cause with the Republican populist.

I remember in 2008 there were calls for a Ron Paul/Dennis Kucinich ticket, or vice versa. Every good presidential race should have such an equivalent. Become sometime it's the ideological jesters who can say the truth of the people.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:33 AM on August 7, 2015

Ah, good, I knew I would find this:
The following is a paid press release, otherwise known as "native advertising", but it is something I have been following for the past few decades.

PR Newswire release, Title: Emotion-Reading Technology First And Only To Analyze Audience Reactions To Republican Presidential Primary Debate

So there was this sci-fi book written by Neal Stephenson and George Jewbury (sometimes sold under the pseudonym Stephen Bury) called Interface. The main scary dystopian sci-fi macguffin in the book was this technology that would measure the audience reaction to the things that were being said by a politician, and allow the politician to know immediately what that reaction was, and their handlers could send them cues to change their message on the fly to garner more support. It was a fascinating book, but the idea of the technology stuck me as both dangerous, but also highly probable to happen eventually. Well, it has been used in all the major U.S. elections over the past decade, and this company, Emotient, is one of the leading companies for this product.

Here's the part that is fascinating, and I am hoping to find the full detailed breakdown (if I can find it for free, that is):

During the course of the two-hour debate, Emotient's facial reading algorithm recorded the visual reactions of a 60-person opt-in audience, and identified the following emotional highlights and responsive moments of the debate:

An almost 90% spike in audience "joy" surfaced during the exchange between Donald Trump and Rand Paul, with Trump stating "I don't think you heard me. You're having a hard time tonight."
High levels of "contempt", "anger" and "disgust" were measured among viewers when Scott Walker was questioned on his promise to create 250,000 Wisconsin jobs.
Significant levels of "frustration", "anger" and "confusion" revealed themselves in response to Jeb Bush's suggestion that the Iraq war a mistake.
Statistically, the most "joyous" moments were attributed to Donald Trump, with him eliciting three out of the top five "joy" spikes during the debate. Scott Walker evoked the highest degree of "anger," and the most "disgust" surfaced during the Chris Christie-Rand Paul exchange over surveillance. Conversely, Ted Cruz seemingly failed to provoke any significant emotional response from Emotient's studio audience.

That right there is some scary level of detail. They can tell exactly how you are reacting, based upon the things your face does involuntarily as you are listening to someone speak.

And here's where it gets really fucked up. The results of these kinds of analysis have been shown to be highly correlated (not necessarily causal, mind you) with opinion polls taken directly after, as well as several days later.

It would seem, to me, to suggest that to a greater degree, people in general are more motivated to make decisions based upon their emotional memory of something, versus any kind of reasoning or critical analysis. This also explains, in my crazy little head, why a lot of politicians seem to say some of the most fucked up things, yet still end up getting elected. They KNOW that what they are saying is triggering an emotional response in their audiences. And they hire political campaign advisors who utilize technology like this so craft their messages to get exactly the kind of responses they need to "win" elections.

Trump scored the highest I have ever seen in one of these reports, with a 90% spike in "joy" because he traded barbs with Rand Paul. A week from now, ask people you know that watched the debates. I will guarantee they will have a favorable view of Trump, but won't actually remember a single thing he (or any of the other candidates) said.

And people ask me why I drink.
posted by daq at 11:37 AM on August 7, 2015 [16 favorites]

So, where does one watch the debate on video (it must be available somewhere, right)?
posted by ersatz at 11:39 AM on August 7, 2015

video
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:42 AM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

Wait, Digg still exists?
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on August 7, 2015

It would seem, to me, to suggest that to a greater degree, people in general are more motivated to make decisions based upon their emotional memory of something, versus any kind of reasoning or critical analysis.

This should be the message we write in 500-foot tall, flaming letters on the side of a mountain: "Human beings are feeling creatures." One of the smartest, most useful things a person can know and keep in mind is that all of us--all of us--are primarily driven by our emotions, no matter what our thinking tells us is so.

The world makes so much more sense when I keep this in mind. Irrationality is normal.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:58 AM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Wait, Digg still exists?

Well, a site what that name exists. It is nothing like old Digg.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:00 PM on August 7, 2015

I was wondering where Hillary Clinton was in all this, and apparently she decided to spend last night fundraising and "taking selfies with the Kardashians". On the one hand, I can appreciate the contempt she's showing for the clown-car pile-up by paying it no mind, but on the other hand, I really wish there had been more concerted, earnest pushback against the Repub BS from all the Democrats (not just Sanders). With such incredible viewing numbers, it seems like a lost opportunity to not be part of that conversation, providing a credible alternative and capitalizing on the incompetence on display.
posted by dialetheia at 12:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

So there was this sci-fi book written by Neal Stephenson and George Jewbury (sometimes sold under the pseudonym Stephen Bury) called Interface. The main scary dystopian sci-fi macguffin in the book was this technology that would measure the audience reaction to the things that were being said by a politician, and allow the politician to know immediately what that reaction was, and their handlers could send them cues to change their message on the fly to garner more support.

I think you've forgotten the mind-control implant?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 PM on August 7, 2015

I would love for this gif of Scott Walker from last night to go viral.
posted by dialetheia at 12:46 PM on August 7, 2015 [20 favorites]

Bernie Saunders is going to be speaking at Liberty University.

The 2016 Democratic presidential candidate plans to visit the Lynchburg, Va., campus on Sept. 14 for the school’s fall convocation, according to Liberty’s website. The university will be livestreaming the convocation.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:48 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

I would love for this gif of Scott Walker from last night to go viral.

does urbandictionary allow images? this one goes under 'derp'
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:57 PM on August 7, 2015 [5 favorites]

I think you've forgotten the mind-control implant?

That was the sci-fi part, and really is not necessary, as more often than not, the politician can just have a well concealed ear piece and receive coaching from their handlers backstage.

I was at NAB this year, and got to see these little beauties. They can be custom fitted to be impossible to see, as they sit way, way, way far up into the ear canal. No implant needed (though, I am sure someone is working on one. Time to start looking for scars above the scalp line on elected officials, I guess?
posted by daq at 1:02 PM on August 7, 2015

Not quite a clown car, but...
posted by Etrigan at 1:15 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

Trump looks like he's thinking "what a bunch of dipshits," which would be exactly what I'd be thinking if I was in that elevator! I feel one small step closer to comprehending his appeal.

Walker, I can only assume, always spends elevator rides fantasizing that God Himself is lifting him heavenward, like Enoch.

Paul seems to be trying hard to suppress his desire to kill every person in that box with his bare hands. Only the petty laws made to constrain lesser men hold him back.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:27 PM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]

more inept bozos than the remedial class at clown college
posted by kagredon at 1:30 PM on August 7, 2015

I WAS RIGHT
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:53 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

A doctor who wants to torture people is kind of a fucked up concept.

Indeed
posted by dbiedny at 2:10 PM on August 7, 2015

Juan Cole: Top Cringe Worthy Foreign Policy Moments in GOP Debate: I mean, could [Scott Walker] even find these places on the map? First of all, what in the world does that mean, “You look at Egypt, probably the best relationship we’ve had in Israel, at least in my lifetime.” Does he think Egypt is in Israel? That “Israel” means something like “the Middle East”? If so, no wonder Congress is willing to do whatever Tel Aviv asks. I mean, how can you decline, when the Middle East calls?
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]

Scott Walker Emerges as Leading Candidate to Run Enterprise Rent-a-Car Branch: “He didn’t get too many moments in the spotlight, but, just from what I saw, I would feel comfortable putting him behind one of our rental counters,” he said.
posted by dialetheia at 2:40 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

I said this a few months ago about Snotty Wawa, and I think his performance last night has reinforced my opinion.

Walker is unelectable as president. I think it's cute he thinks he can run, but he aint got the brains. He ain't got W's friends in high places either. Hillary would mop the floor with him. He's got Sarah Palin's grasp of foreign policy, and none of her charm or wit.

It's fitting that last night he spoke less than any other candidate. He has to have been told by his handlers to talk as little as possible. Virtually every time he opens his mouth he says something stupid.

Like this :

This is not just bad with Iran[sic], this is bad with ISIS[sic]. It is tied together, and, once and for all, we need a leader who’s gonna stand up and do something about it.”

Do you even English, Bro ? The deal is bad with Iran ? Or the deal with Iran is bad ? Because that's two completely different things.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:48 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

Amanda Taub at Vox: “Donald Trump just gave a master class on how to get away with sexism”
posted by Going To Maine at 3:00 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]

T.D. Strange: "could [Scott Walker] even find these places on the map? "

No, no he could not, HE WENT TO MARQUETTE. And failed to graduate, which takes freaking talent.

/marquette snobbery
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:34 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]

This is the Twitter data from last night’s GOP debate you are not supposed to pay attention to this morning
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:44 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]

Amanda Taub at Vox: “Donald Trump just gave a master class on how to get away with sexism”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:00 PM on August 7

Excellent article and a complete step by step analysis of how The Trump handled being called on his shit. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on August 7, 2015

There's literally nothing dumb or offensive or Ill informed these guys could do that wouldn't be considered a plus. Thinking Egypt was in Switzerland or responding to a question by slapping the moderator would just increase their appeal as folksy down to earth types you'd want to have a beer with.
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on August 7, 2015

i felt some joy whenever a question went to Trump, because more comedy gold. But there's only so much you hear from a complete narcissist before it goes from bad to good and back to bad again.
posted by angrycat at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2015

daq: "So there was this sci-fi book written by Neal Stephenson and George Jewbury (sometimes sold under the pseudonym Stephen Bury) called Interface. "

A book wholly unique in Stephenson's body of work, with or without collaborators, in that it contained the suggestion that there might be the tiniest, slightest, barely measurable benefit to the study of the liberal arts.
posted by stet at 5:16 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]

The Wall Street Journal: “Republican Debate Audience Was the Biggest Ever for a Nonsports Cable Event”
posted by Going To Maine at 6:47 PM on August 7, 2015

Have to share a great tweet:

Nick Martucci ‏@BlunderingIdiom Aug 4

Birth control?
BAN IT!
Abortion?
BAN IT!
Gay marriage?
BAN IT!

Guns? Look, banning things never works. People will find ways to get them.
posted by Trochanter at 8:26 PM on August 7, 2015 [17 favorites]

Trump's success is very similar to the California recall election where Schwarzenegger won. Why does no one understand that?
posted by Apocryphon at 9:59 PM on August 7, 2015

Trump is good at making and keeping friends in his new career.
posted by sparkletone at 10:57 PM on August 7, 2015

Sadly, his comments about Megyn Kelly probably gave him a 5-point bump in the polls.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:25 PM on August 7, 2015

Sadly, his comments about Megyn Kelly probably gave him a 5-point bump in the polls.

I seem to remember someone tweeting about the crowd laughing when some of Trump's past sexist BS was read as part of the question Megyn asked, and then by all accounts they ate up his "no time for PC crap" response. None of that is at all surprising. The notable thing about the above is it's the establishment/backroom type Republicans starting to more publicly repudiate him. "You're not welcome here," which I can't recall anyone notable saying/doing yet.

Of course, Trump may still screw them by running as an independent but this is an uncomfortable situation for them either way. But, hey, they took one teeny tiny step towards kicking their Trump habit!
posted by sparkletone at 11:54 PM on August 7, 2015

Unless Trump believes that he can win the presidency he has to find a way to exit the race. If he finds a way out of the race for the nomination now, then he can preserve an image of himself as un un-PC populist who sticks it to the political establishment. The longer he stays in the GOP nomination race the more dirt is going to stick to him and the less of an entertaining troll he's going to seem. In the process he'll alienate anyone outside the narrow GOP base and drive down the value of his brand. If he stays in the race until the nominee is determined and he loses, then that loss get attached to his brand. If, and I don't believe it's possible, he wins the GOP nomination, then he has a general election shellacking to look forward to and that's gotta hurt anyone's ego.

The Megyn Kelly stuff strikes me as deliberate. He started with tweets and had time to walk back the bimbo comments but he escalated instead to the menstruation comments. There's no political gain to be had in attacking Kelly. Maybe I'm being optimistic but it's possible that Trump is trying to drive his campaign over a cliff.
posted by rdr at 12:56 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Maybe I'm being optimistic but it's possible that Trump is trying to drive his campaign over a cliff.

Or, that he's trying to appeal to who he thinks is his voter base.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:37 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trump tells it like it is (This thread is so long, this might have been posted before. If so, mods please remove it).
posted by mumimor at 3:39 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I Have Disinvited Donald Trump to the RedState Gathering (Warning: link to RedState).
posted by octothorpe at 5:32 AM on August 8, 2015

Trump drove his campaign off the cliff when he announced his candidacy. He's like Wile. E. Coyote. All he has to do is look down and he'll start free fall. I think he's going all the way though, and will try to get on the debate stage as an independent in the general.
posted by dis_integration at 5:35 AM on August 8, 2015

Yeah, but they predicted that his campaign would collapse when he called McCain a loser and it didn't. We'll see.
posted by octothorpe at 6:19 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

He will never, ever look down. Not an inch of self examination in him. I've got a horrible suspicion he's going to plough on ahead like this into the presidential race, win, then fuck knows what happens.
posted by Artw at 6:19 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Trump's success is very similar to the California recall election where Schwarzenegger won. Why does no one understand that?

LOLOLOL. This is a joke, right? Were you around for that for election? Do you remember how Schwarzenegger campaigned?

Trump bombs at the debate, realizes it immediately, then spends the next day doing damage control. Unfortunately for him, he thinks "damage control" means yelling at people, so he ridicules Megyn Kelly for having a period. And yet STILL we have people here warning us all that we should not underestimate the appeal of Donald Trump. The fear of Trump as an actual threat is some sort of strange reverse-jinx pathology.

The sideshow is winding down, folks. It was fun and horrifying while it lasted, but they're already shuttering up the cotton candy stand and the skeeball booth.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:19 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

I'm pretty sure that the other front runners are happy to let Trump suck up all the attention for a while because frankly the more anyone actually hears JEB! or Walker talk, the less likely they are to get the nomination. We keep paying attention to the sideshow and don't notice what horrible bastards Bush or Walker or Kasich are until it's too late.
posted by octothorpe at 6:22 AM on August 8, 2015

Rising popularity and being the only candidate anyone talks about is not exactly "bombing".
posted by Artw at 6:23 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah I just can't buy anyone saying Trump will drop out. Quitting just isn't something he does, his poll numbers are (disturbingly) good, and we're talking about a country that elected Nixon and re-elected Bush the Younger.

But mostly it's that he doesn't quit. If he can force a narrative whereby he's been kicked out? Maybe? Even then that seems unlikely to me.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:24 AM on August 8, 2015

Noted feminist Eric Erickson is attacking Trump over his Kelly comments? Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder whether Erickson would be doing the same had Trump promised not to run 3rd party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Well, he DID do well in that one internet-only Drudge poll!! But when your value tanks in prediction markets and you start getting disinvited to conservative events, then I think we're entering... THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR DONALD TRUMP! territory.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:26 AM on August 8, 2015

Maybe when he refuses to disclose anything to do with money the rules will kick him out, I suspect he'll find someway to plough on regardless though.
posted by Artw at 6:27 AM on August 8, 2015

Time will tell Mr. Oates. They can't force Trump out and he's got enough money to run campaigns for fifty years so if he wants to stick it out through the primaries, he will.
posted by octothorpe at 6:29 AM on August 8, 2015

(A)Ha(W)O, he's been doing well in rather more than just that Drudge poll. I get that you really want to believe he has no chance--I do too--and the facts on the ground as they currently are simply don't bear that out.

Plus, disinviting him to events just lets him start up a 'poor persecuted me' mantra, 'the guys in the back rooms don't want me telling you the truth,' that sort of thing.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:29 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Well, the one good thing I'd say about him is he's not owned by the same people as the other candidates, and watching FOX et al freak out about that is going to be some fun.
posted by Artw at 6:29 AM on August 8, 2015

I just feel like there's this liberal tendency to go... "gee, he seems awful and dumb, and he says horrible things, and it doesn't *seem* like he has the disposition to run an actual Presidential campaign, but at the same time, I think that all Republican voters are scary slack-jawed, clay-eating yokels, so I guess they'll probably vote for him all the same!"

It's okay to realize that only 20-30% conservative voters will consider supporting him and that's about it. Cause that's the reality.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:29 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Given the various tea party wackos that have won over the last 8 years I wonder if our estimation of the American voter is calibrated too high.

And none of those have reality TV shows.
posted by Artw at 6:33 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

538 isn't Drudge. Look at what they say about his numbers.

And no, that's not what we're doing. What we're doing is looking at the actual numbers. He's currently favoured to win by actual GOP voters. Prediction markets, who knows who's betting. Polls are looking at actual GOP voters and asking them what they actually think.

And what they think is a plurality want Trump to get the nom. That's the reality.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:34 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

His opposition are practically dead from lack of oxygen at these points. And these are not newcomers to the saying stupid and vile things for publicity game, any one of them would be causing major freakouts of it looked like they could win - but right now it really looks like they can't.
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on August 8, 2015

Trump’s Triumph: Billionaire Blowhard Exposes Fake Political System
posted by bukvich at 6:41 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

If Trump is anything like the... gentleman I'm familiar with who has a great deal of money, he's under the impression his money is a reflection of his intelligence and suitability to run things. The difficulty is his money makes it possible to insulate himself from anyone in a position to let light into the darkness of his ignorance.

Even if he loses his ass in the primary (which I hope for, but do not count on), it will not be because he is unfit; it will be because we're all idiots.
posted by Mooski at 6:43 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]

It's okay to realize that only 20-30% conservative voters will consider supporting him and that's about it. Cause that's the reality.

20-30% of Republican voters are already supporting him. Do you think that zero of the remaining 70-80% will shrug and vote for him against Clinton or Sanders? Or that none of the undecideds will?
posted by Etrigan at 6:52 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

Trump never apologizes, which in GOP-land is taken as a sign of strength; witness how many times apoplectic Republicans have frothed about any Democrat appearing to apologize to any foreign country for anything. And Trump exudes certainty, which corresponds to another GOP value: thoughtfulness = dithering = candy-assery. Trump's trash talk epitomizes the way people fantasize about telling off the boss and it's bro culture to boot: sitting around one-upping each other acting out a warped understanding of what it means to be a man.

These factors underpinning his appeal goes to the mystery behind why so many working class GOP supporters vote against their interests. It comes from rage and a glimmer of understanding that the end is near, especially for white men who see the diminishment of their dominance everywhere, but cheering for a "winner" is also a way to avoid facing that; I can still win at life! It's extinction burst behavior.
posted by carmicha at 6:58 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

What I mean is he won't win the Republican primary because ultimately most primary voters will coalesce behind another candidate. This is, like, what always happens? I've said before that I'd actually prefer Trump get the nom because he's not a true believer and would, ultimately, probably just chase opinion polls as President. But he's not going to get the nomination. And if you disagree, you should put money down in a prediction market because you'd win a shit ton. I've put money on "No Trump" and I gotta tell ya, I am not sweating it.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:04 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

20-30% of Republican voters are already supporting him. Do you think that zero of the remaining 70-80% will shrug and vote for him against Clinton or Sanders? Or that none of the undecideds will?

What percentage of Republicans would stay away from the polls in disgust?
posted by carmicha at 7:10 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Omg it's not about a general election. 20-30% of conservatives will vote for Trump in the primary.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:11 AM on August 8, 2015

This thread seems to have forgotten the whole cain-gingrich-anybody-but-romney ride from four years ago.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:12 AM on August 8, 2015 [8 favorites]

If we use "registered Republicans" as a proxy for "conservatives", then 20-30% is somewhere between 11 million and 16 million. In 2012, Mitt Romney won 1462 delegates out of 2286 with 10 million votes.

Do not count Trump out of this race based on math.
posted by Etrigan at 7:21 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Re Trump being disinvited by Erick Erickson:

"A Trump campaign spokesperson responded: 'This is just another example of weakness through being politically correct. For all of the people who were looking forward to Mr Trump coming, we will miss you. Blame Erick Erickson, your weak and pathetic leader. We’ll now be doing another campaign stop at another location.'"

Source.
posted by GrammarMoses at 7:23 AM on August 8, 2015

Called it, GrammarMoses.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:29 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

If we use "registered Republicans" as a proxy for "conservatives", then 20-30% is somewhere between 11 million and 16 million. In 2012, Mitt Romney won 1462 delegates out of 2286 with 10 million votes.

Do not count Trump out of this race based on math.

Using "registered Republicans" as a proxy for "conservatives" is a terrible assumption. I wouldn't count Trump out of the race based on math. I'd count him out of the race based on the evidence of the past four years.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:56 AM on August 8, 2015

I'd count him out of the race based on the evidence of the past four years.

Because the last four years is evidence that the "reasonable conservative" always wins out in the end? [Citation needed].
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:58 AM on August 8, 2015

Even if they didn't all vote for Trump they'd have to all settle on one of the no-name candidates running and I don't see that happening.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on August 8, 2015

next step - the party calls upon many of the also rans to quit so the party can unite itself around a person who can beat trump

come to think of it, maybe trump's real strategy isn't to win - it's to force a brokered convention
posted by pyramid termite at 9:33 AM on August 8, 2015

Going To Maine: Amanda Taub at Vox: “Donald Trump just gave a master class on how to get away with sexism”

sparkletone: Trump is good at making and keeping friends in his new career.

octothorpe: I Have Disinvited Donald Trump to the RedState Gathering (Warning: link to RedState).

Just to be clear, his double-down on sexism got him booted from the RedState Gathering, which means that someone cares enough about the stupid shit Trump says to keep him away from their gathering. From The Guardian:

“I expect Trump to lash out at Erick but Erick wins when he fights and has a huge microphone and speaks to a lot of conservatives across the country.” Mackowiak added it also represents a missed opportunity for Trump to speak to conservative activists and reporters who had gathered for the event.

posted by filthy light thief at 9:38 AM on August 8, 2015

I'd count him out of the race based on the evidence of the past four years.

Because the last four years is evidence that the "reasonable conservative" always wins out in the end? [Citation needed].

Let me rephrase: the evidence of four years ago, when every single candidate other than Mitt was tried before being rejected. It is way easier to imagine that the new normal is everything going nuts until the chips come down, which is still four months away. Donald Trump is ten kinds of scandal bombs, none of which have been exploded because there hasn't been a need to set them off yet.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:40 AM on August 8, 2015

He is a monster who feeds on attention, positive or negative, those scandal bombs are going to have zero effect on him.
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on August 8, 2015

He is a monster who feeds on attention, positive or negative, those scandal bombs are going to have zero effect on him.

Yes. He's completely invincible to negative feedback. This exchange from the recent National Journal piece on him really gets to the rotten, mad core of Trump:

Reporter: "What do you say to the people I've spoken to this morning in Laredo who called you a racist?"

Trump: "We just landed and there were a lot of people at the airport, and they were all waving American flags, and they were all in favor of Trump and what I'm doing. Virtually everyone that we saw, there was such a great, warm—I was actually surprised—but there was such great warmth at the airport with all of those people that were there. So we're very, very honored."

Reporter: "There were plenty chanting against you."

Trump: "They were chanting for me."

Reporter: "They were chanting against you."

Trump: "I didn't see that."

With growing desperation, the reporters turned to policy questions...

We could be literally pillorying him in the town square and he'd think it was a party honoring his accomplishments.
posted by dis_integration at 10:01 AM on August 8, 2015 [11 favorites]

He is a monster who feeds on attention, positive or negative, those scandal bombs are going to have zero effect on him.

It depends on what they are. I mean, there's zero chance that Trump will end up bankrupt or will act embarrassed. But who cares? Jerks gonna be jerks. But his annihilation as a candidate is inevitable.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:03 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Fox News viewers had no issue w/ Megyn Kelly for at least 12 months until she asked Trump tough questions. #GOPDebate (via)
posted by tonycpsu at 10:08 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

What? We're going to find out he's a racist moron rapust with a trail of failed business ventures? That's going to hurt him the ninth or tenth time over?

He has a lock on the awful moron vote. That's pretty much the bulk of republicans so he'll probably walk the primary.

As things stand he'll get the non-awful moron vote because they think he's cute. Will any of the many horrible things he says and does shift that? Maybe but it's not looking like it.

The non-moron awful establishments HATES him but may be stuck with him and will vote for him anyway.

Non-awful non-morons aren't much of a voting blocks.

So I think we may be looking at President Trump here, fearful to behold.
posted by Artw at 10:25 AM on August 8, 2015

Given the numbers of people who are supporting him with the foul things that come out of his mouth, as things stand right now I think it's live boy/dead girl territory.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:27 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

President Trump: "Today's meeting with President Xi did not go well because he a loser. Tomorrow I am bombing China, those PC pussies (weaklings)"
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

This is not about sexism. The GOP seems to be scared....
posted by asra at 10:54 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Watching from north of the border, this whole Trump thing is both hilarious and revolting at the same time. So surreal. Like a PDK novel. Things just keep getting crazier and crazier in US politics.

What is 2020 going to be like? A Floyd Mayweather / Hulk Hogan ticket?
posted by Nevin at 10:58 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Is the Time transcript wrong or did this really happen?

MEGAN: Governor Walker, many in the Black Live Matter movement, and beyond, believe that overly-aggressive police officers targeting young African Americans is the civil rights issue of our time. Do you agree? And if so, how do you plan to address it? And if not, why not?

CARSON: Well, what we have to stop and think about is that we have weakened ourselves militarily to such an extent that if affects all of our military policies. Our Navy is at its smallest size since 1917; our Air Force, since 1940. In recent testimony, the commandant of the Marine Corps said half of the non-deployed units were not ready and you know, the sequester is cutting the heart out of our personnel. Our generals are retiring because they don’t want to be part of this, and at the same time, our enemies are increasing.

Our — our friends can’t trust us anymore. You know, Ukraine was a nuclear-armed state. They gave away their nuclear arms with the understanding that we would protect them. We won’t even give them offensive weapons.

You know, we turned our back on Israel, our ally. You know, and a situation like that, of course Obama’s not going to be able to do anything. I would shore up our military first, because if you don’t get the military right, nothing else is going to work.
posted by crashlanding at 11:07 AM on August 8, 2015

These 'debates' would be much more honest if the mouthpieces for the RNC moderators just said "And now to you, Mr Candidate, can you please string together between three and five of your talking points? Bonus marks for them being completely unrelated."
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:09 AM on August 8, 2015

Donald Trump fires top adviser, or top adviser quits -- nobody is really sure -- but either way, this is GREAT NEWS! FOR DONALD TRUMP!
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:55 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

My wife just suggested tha everyone should send him maxi pads to dry his tears over being treated so cruelly by Kelly.
posted by nubs at 12:16 PM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

I can't stop imagining President Trump saying this to Angela Merkel.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:40 PM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

The mental image of her foot jammed so far up his ass he can taste toes is quite nice yes
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:43 PM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]

The Republican Candidates Agree that the System is Rigged for the Rich
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:08 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

I can't stop imagining President Trump saying this to Angela Merkel.

With a few nazi jokes to boot, natch.


I wonder if Trump was an attempt to dial the crazy to 12 to make the regular 10s look sane or at least balanced, but once the backlash started to hit Trump's media endeavors, he refused to bow out because he'd have no platform for his ego and gone rogue.
posted by lmfsilva at 2:16 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Nate Silver at 538: Donald Trump Won’t Win A War Against Fox News
posted by Going To Maine at 3:57 PM on August 8, 2015

I had a few thoughts about the guy who disinvited Trump to the RedState gathering (self-link - mods, if it's not cool, please delete).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:04 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

Reporter: "They were chanting against you."

Trump: "I didn't see that."

Boo-urns.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 4:27 PM on August 8, 2015 [5 favorites]

Artw: "He will never, ever look down. Not an inch of self examination in him."

I KNOW. I have never seen "The Apprentice" so it comes as something of a shock to me, but the dude has a Biblical, Adam-and-Eve-pre-apple-of-knowledge lack of shame about him. It's AMAZING.

feckless fecal fear mongering: "These 'debates' would be much more honest if the mouthpieces for the RNC moderators just said "And now to you, Mr Candidate, can you please string together between three and five of your talking points? Bonus marks for them being completely unrelated.""

This is called a pivot, it is a skill, you have to be trained, and you have to practice it a LOT.

Carson was bad at it; he needed to include a bridge to get from the thing he was asked about to the thing he wanted to talk about. Ted Cruz was good, because he pivoted smoothly from empty non-answer to empty platitude. Marco Rubio was better, because he managed to pivot from non-answer to talking points with substance in them, which makes you forget he pivoted in the first place, and reporters tend to report the substance and ignore the pivot. Jeb Bush was so-so because he kept trying to answer the actual question asked.

Before a local candidate debate in front of maybe 100 people, for an election with an electorate of maybe 12,000 (around 60,000 citizens in the constituency), I spent TWO HOURS with my campaign manager practicing my pivots until I could do them smoothly. After, of course, spending several days e-mailing them back and forth to figure out what they would be -- what negatives I was likely to be asked about, what positive things I was UNlikely to be asked about but particularly wanted to point out (in response to a neutral question), and so on.

(Another thing that was actually hard about that GOP debate was that they didn't let them have a pad of paper and a pen, which is much harder -- when people ask multi-sentence questions with multiple clauses, it's a LOT EASIER if you can jot down like three words when they're asking, just so you don't accidentally answer the wrong question -- you're under a lot of pressure, there are plenty of distractions, your brain is trying to do six things at once, and it's really easy to accidentally latch onto the end of the question and forget the beginning and sound like a doofus because you answered the totally wrong question. Political debates actually have a lot of rules about this -- lots will let you take notes while the question is being asked, but not while you're answering OR while your opponent is talking. It is, in fact, hella distracting if your opponent sits there writing the whole time you're talking. WHAT ARE YOU WRITING STOP WRITING WHY ARE YOU WRITING GAAAAAAH. Some debates start your time immediately when the question finishes; others let you clarify/repeat back the question before starting your time on the answer.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:28 PM on August 8, 2015 [10 favorites]

Guardian: "In a follow-up blog post, Erickson amplified why he was disinviting Trump: “there are even lines blunt talkers and unprofessional politicians should not cross,” he wrote. “Decency is one of those lines.”"

Wait, so the problem isn't the misogyny, it's that TRUMP IMPLICITLY MENTIONED GROSS LADY BODY THINGS? Megyn Kelly probably does in fact menstruate and it is not gross or indecent to say so!

Guys! Guys! Let's ask every single candidate the name of the part of the female body that babies being aborted exit through. When they all say "vagina" we can get them all excluded from all future GOP forums, except for Ted Cruz, who I imagine calls it a "hoo-hah," and Scott Walker, who probably thinks babies are extruded in a beam of light through a woman's bellybutton, 4th-century-monk style.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:35 PM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

Oh I know what a pivot is, I was riffing on how utterly inept and nonsensical theirs are.

I'd really love to see a debate where the moderator sits there, lets them pivot, and then says "Okay, now the question I actually asked was XYZ. Answer it plz."

And don't be ridiculous, babies are generated at hospitals. Women just go there to pick them up.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 4:39 PM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]

They did that to Trump, the one I remember was when Kelly asked Trump to use the debate to share his proof that Mexico was sending rapists across the border. Trump tried to avoid the question, then Kelly called him out. Trump's answer was that he had talked to people while he was down at the border a few weeks ago with the Border Patrol agents and that people who knew had told him.
posted by daHIFI at 4:43 PM on August 8, 2015

Yeah, I watched it. I just want to see it happen every time. Live factchecking would also be great. Three lies and you have to drop out of the race. (Had that been the case, something like the last 90 minutes of the Canadian leaders debate would have been May, Mulcair, and Trudeau.)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 4:46 PM on August 8, 2015

Guardian: “In a follow-up blog post, Erickson amplified why he was disinviting Trump: ‘there are even lines blunt talkers and unprofessional politicians should not cross,’ he wrote. ‘Decency is one of those lines.’”

Wait, so the problem isn’t the misogyny, it’s that TRUMP IMPLICITLY MENTIONED GROSS LADY BODY THINGS? Megyn Kelly probably does in fact menstruate and it is not gross or indecent to say so!

In truth, this is kind of why I found Trump's unveiled misogyny funny. I'm pretty sure if you asked everyone of those guys on stage, they'd have said something to the effect that, while a woman can be out of the home, it's better if she is in the home. Trump's grossness is right there on the surface. It’s socially unacceptable grossness. Just because you’re starting your sentences with “Ms.” doesn’t mean you aren’t backing the patriarchy.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:47 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]

daHIFI: “They did that to Trump, the one I remember was when Kelly asked Trump to use the debate to share his proof that Mexico was sending rapists across the border. Trump tried to avoid the question, then Kelly called him out. Trump's answer was that he had talked to people while he was down at the border a few weeks ago with the Border Patrol agents and that people who knew had told him.”

That was Chris Wallace, not Megyn Kelly, but otherwise yeah.
posted by koeselitz at 5:33 PM on August 8, 2015

All those guys on that stage, and the voters in the GOP, agree with Trump, they just know you're not supposed to say so.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:35 PM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]

Mod note: A few comments deleted and the correct link swapped in place of the redstate one in Empress Callipygos's comment. Carry on.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:41 PM on August 8, 2015

Reporter: "They were chanting against you."

Trump: "I didn't see that."

Boo-urns.

I was saying True-Ump.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:44 PM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]

Why do (white) working-class voters love Donald Trump? The New Yorker magazine's James Surowiecki on Donald Trump's Sales Pitch.
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:17 AM on August 9, 2015

Maureen Dowd, you are the worst.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:21 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

New NBC poll this morning.
posted by octothorpe at 10:24 AM on August 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

Maureen Dowd gets paid way more than most of us to write the crap she writes.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:51 AM on August 9, 2015

Is it still true that pollsters call landlines only?
posted by futz at 10:57 AM on August 9, 2015

Huh. The lead for Trump really isn't the weirdest thing in that poll.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on August 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

Is it still true that pollsters call landlines only?

I couldn't find a better source than this one:

This is the first election where the majority of polling firms are explicitly contacting cellphone numbers in addition to landlines. However, several polls still fail to contact cellphone users. Skipping these people severely biases the estimates.

The upshot is that those Republican candidates who appeal to the younger crowd are disadvantaged in polls that do not explicitly used cellphone numbers in addition to landline numbers.

So some pollsters haven't moved over to cellphone polling. Mostly because of anti-robocall laws that force them to hand dial cellphones, making it more expensive to poll them.
posted by dis_integration at 11:44 AM on August 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

In most cases I'd say the landline thing is going to result in broken polls, in the case of Republican primaries... eh, I don't know.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]

Of course Donald Trump is big on gamergate. Of course.
posted by Artw at 12:41 PM on August 9, 2015 [4 favorites]

I wonder if he'll weigh in on the Hugo Awards next?
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on August 9, 2015

Maureen Dowd, you are the worst.

I'm beginning to think that Maureen Dowd really likes those romance novels featuring the bad boy object of lust...
posted by happyroach at 12:48 PM on August 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

Dowd's continued employment is a constant source of mystery.
posted by octothorpe at 2:10 PM on August 9, 2015 [3 favorites]

In most cases I'd say the landline thing is going to result in broken polls, in the case of Republican primaries... eh, I don't know.

This isn't to say that they're actually doing it, but you can do a lot with a skewed sample just by reweighting based on demographics after you take the survey.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:06 PM on August 9, 2015

Here's the NBC poll mentioned above, done by (of all people) SuveyMonkey! 18% of respondents say Trump did the best. That's more than any other candidate. 29% say he did the worst. That's also higher than any other candidate.

Seems about right.

Look, there's very little chance of Trump winning the GOP Primary. And there's NO chance of him winning the General. Yes, yes, Rob Ford. But all he won was a local election -- and even then, he carried only a plurality of 47% in a three way race. It's just not an apt comparison.

As this poll shows, Trump is incredibly divisive. Even among Registered Republicans more people dis-like him than like him. I'm willing to bet that gets even worse among Independents and Democrats.
posted by Frayed Knot at 6:14 PM on August 9, 2015

A derail, courtesy of Mother Jones: I Can’t Stop Laughing At This Video Of Donald Trump Trying To Sell Steaks At Sharper Image
posted by Going To Maine at 10:02 PM on August 9, 2015 [2 favorites]

> Look, there's very little chance of Trump winning the GOP Primary.

People keep saying this. I can't help but feel that we'll be using Trump as an example years from now, like people are with Rob Ford, etc - "Remember, Trump pulled it off!"

I hope it isn't likely, but as long as there's any chance, I'm not discounting the possibility.
posted by MysticMCJ at 7:30 AM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]

PPP: Trump Still Leads in Iowa; Fiorina on Fire; Paul Tanking

PPP's newest Iowa poll finds Donald Trump leading the Republican field in the state even after a weekend of controversy. He's at 19% to 12% for Ben Carson and Scott Walker, 11% for Jeb Bush, 10% for Carly Fiorina, 9% for Ted Cruz, and 6% for Mike Huckabee and Marco Rubio.

The other 9 candidates are all clustered between 3% and having no support at all (George Pataki)- John Kasich and Rand Paul are at 3%, Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry, and Rick Santorum at 2%, Chris Christie at 1%, and Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, and Pataki all have less than 1%.

PPP last polled Iowa in April and at that time Trump had a 40/40 favorability rating with GOP voters. On this poll his favorability is 46/40, not substantially better than it four months ago. That suggests Trump's favorability could be back on the way down after peaking sometime in the last few weeks. But at any rate Trump does have the advantage with pretty much every segment of the GOP electorate- he's up with Evangelicals, men, women, voters in every age group, moderates, voters who are most concerned with having the candidate who is most conservative on the issues, and voters who are most concerned about having a candidate who can win the general election.

posted by zombieflanders at 10:21 AM on August 10, 2015

And another one from Morning Consult (a firm I haven't heard of): Trump’s Lead Grows After Debate, Controversy

Real estate magnate Donald Trump’s lead over the Republican field grew in the several days after his performance at the first GOP presidential debate, according to a new Morning Consult survey, even after he invited a new round of scorn from fellow candidates over impolitic comments about Fox News host Megyn Kelly.

Trump leads the Republican field with 32 percent of the vote, up 7 percentage points over last week’s Morning Consult tracking poll. Trump’s nearest GOP rival, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, clocked in at 11 percent.

No other Republican contender reaches double digits – retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson sits in third place at 9 percent, followed by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) at 6 percent.

The poll, conducted among a subsample of 746 self-identified Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, shows Trump running slightly better with male voters than with female voters. His support is disproportionately strong among older voters and those who say national security is their top issue; he is weakest among those who have earned a college degree.

Trump’s support shows no evidence of slipping after he told a CNN anchor on Friday night that Kelly, one of three moderators overseeing the Fox News debate, had “blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her wherever.”

posted by zombieflanders at 10:56 AM on August 10, 2015

Rod Dreher, The American Conservative: The White House as Caesar’s Palace
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:27 AM on August 10, 2015

Women are live-tweeting their periods at Donald Trump to prove menstruation can't be used against them as an insult
posted by andoatnp at 9:32 PM on August 10, 2015 [3 favorites]

Trump's shtick seems not too dissimilar Lou Dobbs, who was big back when Bush was president. The same xenophobic, protectionist, populist angle. Any parallels to Pat Buchanan?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:46 PM on August 10, 2015

Jeb Bush: Obama and Clinton’s Iraq withdrawal ‘premature’ and a ‘fatal error'

I must be missing something here. This is the last subject I'd choose for a speech if I were Jeb Bush.
posted by rdr at 4:35 AM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

"I do think he's a straight idiot, but I'm going to hang on to Trump for another minute."

What a time to be alive. The longer this goes on, the higher his poll numbers, the more beautiful and spectacular the explosion to come.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:48 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

A quick summary of the post-debate Trump blather:

• Donald Trump's campaign for president has suddenly become a campaign against Fox News (CNN Money, August 8)

  One day after he starred in Fox's GOP primary debate, Trump lashed out at debate moderator Megyn Kelly and the network as a whole. In an interview with Don Lemon on "CNN Tonight," Trump on Friday accused Fox of asking "vicious," unfair questions* at the debate and called Kelly "overrated."

• New step in Trump's feud with Fox News; Clinton weighs in (Yahoo News, Aug. 10)

  Speaking publicly for the first time since the debate, Clinton on Monday said Trump's comments about Kelly should not overshadow the rest of the GOP field's policies dealing with women. "They brag about slashing women's health care funding," Clinton told reporters while campaigning in New Hampshire. "They say they would force women who have been raped to carry their rapist's child, and we don't hear any of them supporting raising the minimum wage, paid leave for new parents, access to quality child care, equal pay for women or anything else that will help to give women a chance to get ahead."

• Megyn Kelly Says She Won’t Be Cowed by Donald Trump (New York Times, Aug. 10)

  “I certainly will not apologize for doing good journalism, so I’ll continue doing my job without fear or favor,” she told viewers in brief comments on her show, “The Kelly File.” “This is a tough business,” she added, “and it’s time now to move forward.” She said she would not respond directly to any of Mr. Trump’s numerous insults and disparaging statements about her.

• Donald Trump and Roger Ailes clear the air in 'blunt' conversation (CNN Money, Aug. 10)

  "Donald Trump and I spoke today," Ailes said Monday in a statement obtained by CNNMoney. "We discussed our concerns, and I again expressed my confidence in Megyn Kelly. She is a brilliant journalist and I support her 100 percent." Ailes continued: "I assured him that we will continue to cover this campaign with fairness & balance. We had a blunt but cordial conversation and the air has been cleared."

And as noted by NPR this morning, "The Republican presidential debate earned Fox News record ratings, and despite the clash, no outlet has done more of late to present Donald Trump as a serious thinker than Fox."

* The question? About the awful things he's said about women. Poor, poor Trump, having to repeatedly defend his misogynistic comments.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

I only had a vague idea who Kelly was before this debate since I hadn't watched Fox News in fifteen years but in looking up her background, it seems like she's more qualified to run for president than Trump is. She has a undergraduate degree in Political Science, a Law Degree and practiced law for Jones Day for a decade before joining Fox.
posted by octothorpe at 8:11 AM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

I'm kind of perplexed by Kelly's continued survival on Fox, tbh. She seems way, way too smart to buy the bullshit they sell, and every so often the facade cracks and we get moments like her questions at the debate.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:32 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Wow, Oates' link is a little... wow:

"O'Neal said Kelly was "out for blood" and trying to discredit Trump. She said Trump probably was referring to a woman's menstrual cycle, and that he would have a point. "I'm a woman, and I don't think women should be president," O'Neal said. "Women are unstable. Once a woman hits that PMS moment, she might nuke someone."

Stephanie Baker, a 24-year-old college student in Sioux City, Iowa, said Trump put Kelly "in her place." "She was getting a little brave," Baker said. "She walks around like her sh-t don't stink, and why should Donald Trump be nice to her when she treated him like that? He calls it like it is."

Asked about Trump's history of referring to women as pigs, dogs and slobs, Baker stood up for her pick. "I'm not saying it doesn't bother me, but I don't know the context of those comments," she said. "He could have been joking, and those women could have been laughing.""
posted by box at 8:41 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm kind of perplexed by Kelly's continued survival on Fox, tbh. She seems way, way too smart to buy the bullshit they sell, and every so often the facade cracks and we get moments like her questions at the debate.

Considering my exposure to Fox News is limited to what Stewart/Colbert found amusing and the odd "you WON'T believe what this Fox News anchor said !!11!one!" headlines, Kelly seems to be one of the few in the network that manages to draw a line between "bullshit" and "unbelievable bullshit". On election night during Rove's tantrum, at times it felt she was really close on calling him an idiot.

(Then there's Billo, and although I think he's "in" with the joke, he keeps playing it straight because it's a good paycheck. Guys like Beck or Hannity are either very good actors, or completely delusional)
posted by lmfsilva at 9:54 AM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

There are several people on the Fox payroll who almost certainly do it for the money, Kelly is probably one of them. Another is Shepard Smith.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:40 AM on August 11, 2015

lets not go so far that we revise the history of megyn kelly's terribleness.
posted by nadawi at 10:53 AM on August 11, 2015 [8 favorites]

Once a woman hits that PMS moment, she might nuke someone.

It's just layers of madness upon madness at this stage.
posted by colie at 10:57 AM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

How Trump and Roger Stone squashed Perot's Reform Party.
posted by drezdn at 11:16 AM on August 11, 2015

In other news, if the election were tomorrow, 8% of MN voters plan to vote for independent candidate Deez Nuts from Wallingford, IA. Deez Nuts is (are?) more popular among Republicans than Democrats, and among nonwhites than whites, but so far Deez Nuts' support only barely scratches double digits.

I can't wait to see how I.P. Freleigh and Ivana Tinkle do once they declare.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:25 AM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

I saw one of Trump's former staffers (a lawyer) defending Trump over his retweet of Megyn Kelly being called a bimbo. You know how you can tell he's a lawyer? He said he couldn't condemn or defend Trump's retweet because he had no idea of the context or if Trump had read the entire tweet.

He had no idea. If Trump. Had read the entire tweet.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 PM on August 11, 2015 [6 favorites]

to be honest, I doubt he reads past the @realDonaldTrump. His ego blows up a bit more, and that constricts his eye arteries or something. That's why he looks a bit of a squinty fuck.
posted by lmfsilva at 12:43 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Fox Issues Unconditional Surrender
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:05 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

Kelly moves to CNN or MSNBC in 3..2...1....
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:09 PM on August 11, 2015

...i don't understand why cnn or msnbc would want her. unless they've given up all pretense and just want the ratings. she's really is an awful person with awful ideas. just because she's on the right side in this very limited fight doesn't mean she's suddenly absolved for all her shitty, often overtly racist, reporting.
posted by nadawi at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2015 [11 favorites]

Here's Some Stupid for Lunch: Jeb Bush Set to Place Blame for Failed Peacekeeping in Iraq. Except on the figure that probably matters most – his brother and the man who started the war, George W. Bush. Really, Jeb?
posted by homunculus at 1:20 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

Well, it's not like CNN isn't utter garbage and almost as bad as FOX these days.
posted by Artw at 1:22 PM on August 11, 2015 [4 favorites]

Something something chickens something something roost.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:26 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

Once a woman hits that PMS moment, she might nuke someone.

Uh yeah, now only if there was some way to check that? Like maybe there was a woman leader of a nuclear power, one well regarded by Republicans.
posted by FJT at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

Rick Perry stops paying all of his staff as fundraising dries up
posted by octothorpe at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

Rick Perry stops paying all of his staff as fundraising dries up

Perry: "What do you mean the glasses didn't work? Don't they know I got all smart-like now?"
Campaign manger: (facepalms forever and ever)
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:15 PM on August 11, 2015 [3 favorites]

I just finished Paolo Bacigalupi's THE WATER KNIFE. The religious nut Texan refugees are called Merry Perrys. I'm trying to figure out if that is a reference to Rick Perry or some other referent with which I am unfamiliar.
posted by Justinian at 4:24 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

They asked him which three staff members he planned to eliminate, but he couldn't remember.
posted by box at 5:27 PM on August 11, 2015 [8 favorites]

Rick Perry stops paying all of his staff as fundraising dries up

probs bc he needs to pay his lawyers
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:02 PM on August 11, 2015 [1 favorite]

What are you referring to?
posted by Going To Maine at 6:08 PM on August 11, 2015

Perry is under indictment for abuse of power. He was also under indictment for coercion of a public official but that was dismissed.
posted by Justinian at 6:24 PM on August 11, 2015 [2 favorites]

octothorpe: "Rick Perry stops paying all of his staff as fundraising dries up"

Molly Ivins is in heaven laughing her ass off right now.
posted by double block and bleed at 6:33 PM on August 11, 2015 [8 favorites]

rough night for Donald Trump, according to @crushingbort
posted by Countess Elena at 10:00 AM on August 12, 2015 [1 favorite]

He really is bonkers, isn't he?
posted by octothorpe at 10:05 AM on August 12, 2015

Yes, I know that the GOP requires every state with a contest before March 15 to distribute delegates proportionally. After that, it's winner take all. The way that's supposed to work is that struggling candidates are supposed to drop out early and leave only a couple of contenders standing -- at which point the strongest candidate should start gobbling up all the delegates in every late state, winning as the consensus choice by majority vote. (Read: Jeb Bush.)

But what if half a dozen or more of these delusional SOBs refuse to withdraw? What if that makes it possible for the much-disliked Trump to be the victor in winner-take-all contests with the vote of a fervid minority?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:52 PM on August 12, 2015

Personally, I don’t think she deviates from the right-wing script nearly often enough to warrant the heaps of praise she gets for it.

I agree. She's the broken clock of Fox News.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:45 PM on August 16, 2015

I think if he continues to do that, and gets the nomination, exposure from the debates will have helped make him look like a reasonable sort of Republican. I do think there a plenty of voters who identify more with the Democratic party, but would be willing to vote for a Republican who wasn’t too far right.

It's important to remember that, if nominated, Ohio likely goes Red.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:01 PM on August 16, 2015

Donald Trump Just Stopped Being Funny: Win or lose, Trump's campaign threatens to unleash the Great American Stupid
posted by homunculus at 1:49 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh, man, a Sanders-Kasich-Trump-as-third-party ticket is too sweet to even allow myself to daydream about it. The 27% TCOT types find out that they're the 27%, the three-legged stool breaks and R's lean rational for the first time in decades, and Bernie walks away with the thing. Not going to happen, but jeez, it's a satisfying thought experiment.
posted by box at 2:27 PM on August 22, 2015

Or, alternately, the Sanders fans discover that they're just a different 27%, and Kasich picks up the remaining 46%…
posted by Going To Maine at 2:33 PM on August 22, 2015 [1 favorite]

'Why, Jeb?' Pro-Bush Iowa pamphlet gives candidate one black hand
posted by Room 641-A at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2015

It's Jeb's hand in shadow.
posted by Etrigan at 5:34 AM on August 24, 2015 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump is not a populist; he's the voice of aggrieved privilege
posted by nubs at 12:13 PM on August 24, 2015 [5 favorites]

American populism : tomayto : : aggrieved privilege: tomahto

Let's call the whole Trump off...
posted by Etrigan at 2:33 PM on August 24, 2015 [1 favorite]