When The Police Turn Someone You Know Into A Hashtag.
October 22, 2015 7:35 AM Subscribe
Benjamin Dixon writes about the death of Corey Jones, a Florida musician who was shot and killed by a plainclothes officer in Florida on Sunday morning, after Jones' car had broken down on the side of the highway.
Jones, 31, "was a college graduate with a double major in business and music, a mentor for President Obama's My Brother's Keeper initiative, the brother of an NFL athlete, the cousin of two current NFL stars, and the son and grandson of successful leaders and entrepreneur."
Video: Remembering Corey Jones
Jones, 31, "was a college graduate with a double major in business and music, a mentor for President Obama's My Brother's Keeper initiative, the brother of an NFL athlete, the cousin of two current NFL stars, and the son and grandson of successful leaders and entrepreneur."
Video: Remembering Corey Jones
This is your regularly scheduled reminder that, over the past 3 years or so, police have killed more people than died in the 9/11 attacks.
posted by Behemoth at 7:45 AM on October 22, 2015 [44 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 7:45 AM on October 22, 2015 [44 favorites]
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posted by anthropophagous at 7:47 AM on October 22, 2015
posted by anthropophagous at 7:47 AM on October 22, 2015
Corey Jones had a legally purchased firearm of his own. His car was broken down by the side of the road when a plainclothes officer approached him. The claim is that Corey came out of the car with his gun drawn. It's not clear whether the officer identified himself -- to Corey, he probably seemed like just a random person coming after him at 3AM. The officer shot and killed Corey. Corey's gun was found on the ground.
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
posted by vogon_poet at 7:49 AM on October 22, 2015 [115 favorites]
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
posted by vogon_poet at 7:49 AM on October 22, 2015 [115 favorites]
According to the second article they found a gun on the ground that Jones had bought a few days before, and the officer is presumably saying that Jones pulled the gun out and the officer thought he was going to shoot. I'm wondering how the (plainclothes) officer identified himself, though.
...the police say that Mr. Jones was holding his weapon as the officer approached, and that the gun was found at the scene, an account that contrasts sharply with other cases in which victims were found to have been unarmed. The police have declined to say how many times the officer fired his weapon, whether words were exchanged or whether Mr. Jones was pointing his weapon.
posted by Huck500 at 7:51 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
...the police say that Mr. Jones was holding his weapon as the officer approached, and that the gun was found at the scene, an account that contrasts sharply with other cases in which victims were found to have been unarmed. The police have declined to say how many times the officer fired his weapon, whether words were exchanged or whether Mr. Jones was pointing his weapon.
posted by Huck500 at 7:51 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
Everyone should be outraged by that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:52 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Everyone should be outraged by that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:52 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering how the (plainclothes) officer identified himself, though.
Apparently the officer didn't even have his badge on him. I can't imagine what it must have felt like to be approached on the side of the road at 3:15am by a guy who was almost certainly being authoritarian and belligerent and claiming he was a cop without any proof.
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
That their overall reaction was muted protest at best and racist nonsense at worst after the killings of John Crawford III and Tamir Rice doesn't give me a lot of hope.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:57 AM on October 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
Apparently the officer didn't even have his badge on him. I can't imagine what it must have felt like to be approached on the side of the road at 3:15am by a guy who was almost certainly being authoritarian and belligerent and claiming he was a cop without any proof.
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
That their overall reaction was muted protest at best and racist nonsense at worst after the killings of John Crawford III and Tamir Rice doesn't give me a lot of hope.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:57 AM on October 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm wondering how the (plainclothes) officer identified himself, though.
I guess we'll never know:
posted by indubitable at 8:01 AM on October 22, 2015 [49 favorites]
I guess we'll never know:
Raja’s vehicle had no dash camera and he wore no body camera.What a lucky coincidence for Officer Raja.
posted by indubitable at 8:01 AM on October 22, 2015 [49 favorites]
Raja’s vehicle had no dash camera and he wore no body camera.
Body cameras before guns. Period. Weld the goddamn badges to the cameras if we have to -- if there isn't a record of your activities, you are not a cop, you are just some person with a gun and should not have the protection of the system any more than any other person with a gun.
posted by Etrigan at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2015 [96 favorites]
Body cameras before guns. Period. Weld the goddamn badges to the cameras if we have to -- if there isn't a record of your activities, you are not a cop, you are just some person with a gun and should not have the protection of the system any more than any other person with a gun.
posted by Etrigan at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2015 [96 favorites]
An armed society is a polite society.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:08 AM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:08 AM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
if there isn't a record of your activities, you are not a cop, you are just some person with a gun and should not have the protection of the system any more than any other person with a gun
Sorry, this presupposes that "protect and serve" is more than a warcry. The cops aren't for you (or me).
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sorry, this presupposes that "protect and serve" is more than a warcry. The cops aren't for you (or me).
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 8:09 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
It seems that “may your name trend on Twitter” could be the modern equivalent of the old Serbian curse “may you see your house on CNN”.
posted by acb at 8:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [19 favorites]
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posted by mikelieman at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2015
posted by mikelieman at 8:13 AM on October 22, 2015
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Immediately going to the "but we can't know if the officer had explicit racist intent" isn't a productive way to go here, because that isn't the main problem people are objecting to when this kind of thing happens. And ignoring the context of "this sure happens a lot" is pretty tonedeaf given the last few years.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2015 [31 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2015 [31 favorites]
I wish body cams were the simplest solution. I mean, yes, they'll help to a degree, but when the system is rigged to protect cops and demonize the black population, body cams won't mean shit. Even when there is actual evidence on video (see: Eric Garner) that the cops killed a black man, NOTHING HAPPENED.
posted by Kitteh at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2015 [16 favorites]
Body cameras before guns. Period.
Reminds me of something I saw on the local news this morning. A local (black) man was gunned down in the middle of the street by police in San Diego; official statements indicate that the officers involved "didn't have time to turn on their body cameras". Oops! I'm sure it's not deliberate policy to leave them off by default.
posted by indubitable at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
Reminds me of something I saw on the local news this morning. A local (black) man was gunned down in the middle of the street by police in San Diego; official statements indicate that the officers involved "didn't have time to turn on their body cameras". Oops! I'm sure it's not deliberate policy to leave them off by default.
posted by indubitable at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm down with body cameras for cops if their recordings can't be used against me.
posted by resurrexit at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2015
posted by resurrexit at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2015
Body cameras before guns. Period.
Locally, there's video of police torturing a man with a taser by firing at his genitals, repeatedly. "Luckily" there was a camera mounted on the taser, which turned on whenever it was used, along with a digital clock to record the time. So we know this torture occurred hours after the cops officially claimed they found the victim unconscious in his cell. 3 people were brought up on charges. They were acquitted of involuntary manslaughter.
So yeah, cameras sound like a great idea, but they aren't a slam dunk at all. There are deep rooted issues with police brutality in America and it's gonna be decades, if ever, for those them disappear.
On the plus side in the local case, nine deputies were fired over the death of the prisoner, so hey, progress.
(I've avoided mentioning the case by name because that's not what this thread is about.)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
Locally, there's video of police torturing a man with a taser by firing at his genitals, repeatedly. "Luckily" there was a camera mounted on the taser, which turned on whenever it was used, along with a digital clock to record the time. So we know this torture occurred hours after the cops officially claimed they found the victim unconscious in his cell. 3 people were brought up on charges. They were acquitted of involuntary manslaughter.
So yeah, cameras sound like a great idea, but they aren't a slam dunk at all. There are deep rooted issues with police brutality in America and it's gonna be decades, if ever, for those them disappear.
On the plus side in the local case, nine deputies were fired over the death of the prisoner, so hey, progress.
(I've avoided mentioning the case by name because that's not what this thread is about.)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 AM on October 22, 2015 [18 favorites]
Eric Garner was murdered on camera in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses. Tamir Rice was murdered by cops in front of cameras. Police should wear body cams, but it won't do any good.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:41 AM on October 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 8:41 AM on October 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the "He went for my weapon" defense will be used as it always is in these cases.
That's what concerns me with the NRA trying to change the culture so that nearly everyone is armed. Once that is the case, any given person's thinking is changed in a tense situation. Then the five words "They went for their gun" will be heard a lot more frequently in courtrooms.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:42 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
That's what concerns me with the NRA trying to change the culture so that nearly everyone is armed. Once that is the case, any given person's thinking is changed in a tense situation. Then the five words "They went for their gun" will be heard a lot more frequently in courtrooms.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 8:42 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm with dirigibleman. Body cameras are not going to fix this problem. It's a societal issue, where cops go mad with their power, and their training tells them that everyone is a threat, but particularly POC.
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:45 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:45 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Immediately going to the "but we can't know if the officer had explicit racist intent" isn't a productive way to go here, because that isn't the main problem people are objecting to when this kind of thing happens. And ignoring the context of "this sure happens a lot" is pretty tonedeaf given the last few years.
While things like this happening depress us all and make us sad, I am, however, very pleased to know and see this acknowledgement and recognition of this problem, even if only happening in one tiny thread in one tiny corner of our virtual humanity.
Thank you Metafilter, community and moderators.
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posted by infini at 9:00 AM on October 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
While things like this happening depress us all and make us sad, I am, however, very pleased to know and see this acknowledgement and recognition of this problem, even if only happening in one tiny thread in one tiny corner of our virtual humanity.
Thank you Metafilter, community and moderators.
.
posted by infini at 9:00 AM on October 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
From the NYT link
Records released Wednesday by the two police departments where he worked raised other questions about Officer Raja, who is on paid leave. Officer Raja, who had been on the job for just six months, apparently failed to disclose on his job application that he had been reprimanded at his last police job for neglecting to turn over morphine recovered from a suspect, records from his previous job show.
Internal affairs records show that in January 2013, Officer Raja’s supervisor at the Police Department in Atlantis, Fla., discovered that he was still in possession of morphine pills that he had seized three weeks earlier.
posted by infini at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Records released Wednesday by the two police departments where he worked raised other questions about Officer Raja, who is on paid leave. Officer Raja, who had been on the job for just six months, apparently failed to disclose on his job application that he had been reprimanded at his last police job for neglecting to turn over morphine recovered from a suspect, records from his previous job show.
Internal affairs records show that in January 2013, Officer Raja’s supervisor at the Police Department in Atlantis, Fla., discovered that he was still in possession of morphine pills that he had seized three weeks earlier.
posted by infini at 9:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Body cameras are a tool for police. They don't have the storage to be left on all day. Of the video that is recorded, the officer decides which parts of the video to upload to the system vs. silently discard.
posted by idiopath at 9:07 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by idiopath at 9:07 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Body cameras are not going to fix this problem
I've said this before but I attended a conference in the US where the topic was liability for police, and a lot of the insurers want body cameras on cops too. Take away what you want from that.
posted by Hoopo at 9:08 AM on October 22, 2015
I've said this before but I attended a conference in the US where the topic was liability for police, and a lot of the insurers want body cameras on cops too. Take away what you want from that.
posted by Hoopo at 9:08 AM on October 22, 2015
I really feel like the citizens are losing this "war on police" I keep hearing about.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
Corey Jones's YouTube channel for those who want to appreciate his talent.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Body cameras are a tool for police. They don't have the storage to be left on all day.
Are you absolutely sure about that? People carry 128Gb phones on their persons these days; and the camera can always upload its contents when in the car if that's not enough.
Of the video that is recorded, the officer decides which parts of the video to upload to the system vs. silently discard.
There lies the problem. The officer (or anybody they're buddies with, or indeed anybody in the police union) should absolutely have no editorial access to this footage.
posted by acb at 9:12 AM on October 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
Are you absolutely sure about that? People carry 128Gb phones on their persons these days; and the camera can always upload its contents when in the car if that's not enough.
Of the video that is recorded, the officer decides which parts of the video to upload to the system vs. silently discard.
There lies the problem. The officer (or anybody they're buddies with, or indeed anybody in the police union) should absolutely have no editorial access to this footage.
posted by acb at 9:12 AM on October 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
There are deep rooted issues with police brutality in America and it's gonna be decades, if ever, for those them disappear.
I don't know how any of this really gets fixed without either a century or so of cultural shift, or a complete overhaul of qualified immunity. We have all these Constitutional rights, and a long history of complicated court cases interpreting them, and then we have a legal system that says that law enforcement officers are actually allowed to do anything they want if nobody explicitly passed legislation that said they weren't allowed to do it. Under the current standard, I don't know how you could possibly make it so that cops could kill people for good reasons and then not let them kill people for bad reasons. It's that bad, and I haven't yet heard any suggestion that seems likely to happen of how it's going to get fixed. Cultural shift takes a long time, but as sad as it is, I'm pretty sure the fix for this right now looks like making young people sufficiently outraged that this happens that eventually it becomes socially unacceptable for cops to murder people. Which is gross and awful, but it's a gross and awful world and this is part of why I lacked sufficient faith in the legal system to practice.
posted by Sequence at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
I don't know how any of this really gets fixed without either a century or so of cultural shift, or a complete overhaul of qualified immunity. We have all these Constitutional rights, and a long history of complicated court cases interpreting them, and then we have a legal system that says that law enforcement officers are actually allowed to do anything they want if nobody explicitly passed legislation that said they weren't allowed to do it. Under the current standard, I don't know how you could possibly make it so that cops could kill people for good reasons and then not let them kill people for bad reasons. It's that bad, and I haven't yet heard any suggestion that seems likely to happen of how it's going to get fixed. Cultural shift takes a long time, but as sad as it is, I'm pretty sure the fix for this right now looks like making young people sufficiently outraged that this happens that eventually it becomes socially unacceptable for cops to murder people. Which is gross and awful, but it's a gross and awful world and this is part of why I lacked sufficient faith in the legal system to practice.
posted by Sequence at 9:13 AM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's mindblowing how unofficial and careless this stop must have been. Plainclothes in an unmarked van with no badge? WTF. Got time to grab the gun but not the badge??
It's a recurrent thing that violent criminals who aren't police officers will claim to be to make it easier to assault people -- a cursory google news search finds instances this month in Beaumont, Madison, Kansas City, Orlando, Indianapolis and Spokane. There's substantial reasons to distrust police to begin with, but then presumably the PD's story will be he was supposed to've obeyed a completely undocumented officer? URRRGH.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
It's a recurrent thing that violent criminals who aren't police officers will claim to be to make it easier to assault people -- a cursory google news search finds instances this month in Beaumont, Madison, Kansas City, Orlando, Indianapolis and Spokane. There's substantial reasons to distrust police to begin with, but then presumably the PD's story will be he was supposed to've obeyed a completely undocumented officer? URRRGH.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 9:14 AM on October 22, 2015 [15 favorites]
> Body cameras are a tool for police. They don't have the storage to be left on all day. Of the video that is recorded, the officer decides which parts of the video to upload to the system vs. silently discard.
This is definitely true in a few cases-- I believe it was the Tucson Police? or some other Arizona city where the cameras were working but turned off during a number of police shootings.
On the other hand, Seattle PD supposedly penalizes police for failing to have their cameras on when they're engaging with the public. The cameras do upload everything, not selective clips, which became an issue for the department when they started getting hit with public records requests for all of the footage, a request they weren't equipped to handle. No doubt other cities have similar policies and technologies that prevent the officer from editing footage.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is definitely true in a few cases-- I believe it was the Tucson Police? or some other Arizona city where the cameras were working but turned off during a number of police shootings.
On the other hand, Seattle PD supposedly penalizes police for failing to have their cameras on when they're engaging with the public. The cameras do upload everything, not selective clips, which became an issue for the department when they started getting hit with public records requests for all of the footage, a request they weren't equipped to handle. No doubt other cities have similar policies and technologies that prevent the officer from editing footage.
posted by Sunburnt at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
> It's mindblowing how unofficial and careless this stop must have been. Plainclothes in an unmarked van with no badge? WTF. Got time to grab the gun but not the badge??
For real. And how about...a phone? If you are really all about Protecting and Serving, then I can see why you might stop to assist a motorist in a broken car in the middle of the night, and how you might think gosh, I might seem kind of threatening to this guy, what with me being careless and forgetting my badge, so how's about I stay in my car and call for a tow truck/highway patrol to come help this person?
posted by rtha at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
For real. And how about...a phone? If you are really all about Protecting and Serving, then I can see why you might stop to assist a motorist in a broken car in the middle of the night, and how you might think gosh, I might seem kind of threatening to this guy, what with me being careless and forgetting my badge, so how's about I stay in my car and call for a tow truck/highway patrol to come help this person?
posted by rtha at 9:23 AM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't know how any of this really gets fixed without either a century or so of cultural shift...
I was lucky enough to see Ta-Nehisi Coates speak recently, and one of the many things he said that has stuck with me was that, for the most part, those fighting for civil rights don't live to see the changes they effect. That is not to say we should be patient -- because this is literally a life-or-death issue -- but that right now we are fighting not just for us but for our country's next century.
I content myself somewhat by telling today's racists-who-think-they're-just-being-rational-and-what-about-black-on-black-crime that they're the equivalent of the white mob spitting on the Little Rock Nine and someday their descendants will feel the same revulsion for their weak minds that I feel for my Confederate ancestors.
And then another black person is murdered and that really isn't enough.
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2015 [28 favorites]
I was lucky enough to see Ta-Nehisi Coates speak recently, and one of the many things he said that has stuck with me was that, for the most part, those fighting for civil rights don't live to see the changes they effect. That is not to say we should be patient -- because this is literally a life-or-death issue -- but that right now we are fighting not just for us but for our country's next century.
I content myself somewhat by telling today's racists-who-think-they're-just-being-rational-and-what-about-black-on-black-crime that they're the equivalent of the white mob spitting on the Little Rock Nine and someday their descendants will feel the same revulsion for their weak minds that I feel for my Confederate ancestors.
And then another black person is murdered and that really isn't enough.
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2015 [28 favorites]
Internal affairs records show that in January 2013, Officer Raja’s supervisor at the Police Department in Atlantis, Fla., discovered that he was still in possession of morphine pills that he had seized three weeks earlier.
According to the Guardian "Pills confiscated by Raja from a woman who obtained them without a prescription in January 2013 were discovered in Raja’s patrol car more than a week later."
Three weeks later as it turns out, apparently. What was Raja doing, keeping those pills in his patrol car like that? Maybe he was just behind on his paperwork, but it's reasonable to suspect he was holding on to them so he could plant them on anybody he wanted to take down for a major felony.
And in that case, it's also reasonable to guess that he went through Jones' car and arranged things at the scene to make himself look as good as possible.
posted by jamjam at 9:49 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
According to the Guardian "Pills confiscated by Raja from a woman who obtained them without a prescription in January 2013 were discovered in Raja’s patrol car more than a week later."
Three weeks later as it turns out, apparently. What was Raja doing, keeping those pills in his patrol car like that? Maybe he was just behind on his paperwork, but it's reasonable to suspect he was holding on to them so he could plant them on anybody he wanted to take down for a major felony.
And in that case, it's also reasonable to guess that he went through Jones' car and arranged things at the scene to make himself look as good as possible.
posted by jamjam at 9:49 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
The music community down here is in shock, too. There was a rally this morning and the reports from police are showing that out of the six shots fired, three hit him, one breaking his arm, one hitting his aorta. Corey Jones was running away from the apparently random guy with the gun who was shooting at him.
The article may not be readable because local news paper wants you to buy the digital edition. Sorry.
To add to jamjam's post, people are sharing their encounters withe Officer Raja on Facebook.
posted by tilde at 9:52 AM on October 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
The article may not be readable because local news paper wants you to buy the digital edition. Sorry.
To add to jamjam's post, people are sharing their encounters withe Officer Raja on Facebook.
posted by tilde at 9:52 AM on October 22, 2015 [11 favorites]
Break the police unions.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:56 AM on October 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Add to the list of things that black people shouldn't do around cops- have their cars break down.
When settlements are payed out, are they payed out of the fund of the city or by the city's insurers? Because I'm predicting an unpunished cop and a settlement from the city, as per usual in these cases. I'd like to be less cynical about this, but well, it feels like the US is turning into one big sundown town (if you have dark skin, don't get caught outside after dark).
posted by Hactar at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
When settlements are payed out, are they payed out of the fund of the city or by the city's insurers? Because I'm predicting an unpunished cop and a settlement from the city, as per usual in these cases. I'd like to be less cynical about this, but well, it feels like the US is turning into one big sundown town (if you have dark skin, don't get caught outside after dark).
posted by Hactar at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Break the police unions.
Actually, in an interesting turn of events even the local police union asked for more transparency.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Actually, in an interesting turn of events even the local police union asked for more transparency.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [6 favorites]
Is there any reason why we shouldn't just assume that every plainclothes cop in the U.S. is like the plainclothes cops in Serpico?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:09 AM on October 22, 2015
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:09 AM on October 22, 2015
Florida is a state with w/ Law Enforcement Officer's Bill Of Rights (LEOBoR): Lyons: Law officers' job protections go too far
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:24 AM on October 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
For instance, a law officer under internal investigation must be told all the names of any complainants before being asked any questions. Those people must all be questioned first, along with all witnesses, including any fellow cops. And the suspected officer gets to see all their statements and any and all evidence before he or she is questioned.I don't think these protections go too far. I think all people should have them: to be questioned at a reasonable hour, to be free from threats, inducements, or coercion during questioning, to see all evidence and statements arrayed against you before questioning. These are great things, and I'm sure everyone can see that extending these obviously important and worthwhile protections to all is necessary.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:24 AM on October 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
The law enforcement bill of rights allows officers to compose the best possible defense before speaking. It is a travesty of justice. The should be required t give their statements blind, which should not be a problem at all if they are telling the truth,
posted by djinn dandy at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by djinn dandy at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
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I'm reading The Invention of Murder which discusses the creation of a police force in England in the very early 1800s and how little public trusted them to stick to their enumerated duties of ensuring the removal of street nuisances (rubbish & the like), looking after the children and mentally ill or disabled in the communities, and preserving public order. A mere four years after their introduction, several were tried at a coroner's inquest for beating a well-known and generally known to be harmless drunk to death. The re-telling of the inquiry is fascinating: the coroner keeps reprimanding the witnesses and jurors for impugning the honor of the police--with the jurors pushing back when catching them in clear lies. When the jury intends to return a finding of willful murder, the presiding judicial official refuses to accept responsibility for the verdict and reusing to allow them to specifically name the officer they considered the murderer.
One hundred and fifty years and ordinary citizens can trust neither police officers to be reasonable and nonviolent nor the legal structures to discipline them appropriately. It's disgusting; it's horrifying.
There is no war on cops; so police need to be strongly and repeatedly sanctioned for behaving as though they can just shoot first and never worry afterward.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:37 AM on October 22, 2015 [19 favorites]
I'm reading The Invention of Murder which discusses the creation of a police force in England in the very early 1800s and how little public trusted them to stick to their enumerated duties of ensuring the removal of street nuisances (rubbish & the like), looking after the children and mentally ill or disabled in the communities, and preserving public order. A mere four years after their introduction, several were tried at a coroner's inquest for beating a well-known and generally known to be harmless drunk to death. The re-telling of the inquiry is fascinating: the coroner keeps reprimanding the witnesses and jurors for impugning the honor of the police--with the jurors pushing back when catching them in clear lies. When the jury intends to return a finding of willful murder, the presiding judicial official refuses to accept responsibility for the verdict and reusing to allow them to specifically name the officer they considered the murderer.
One hundred and fifty years and ordinary citizens can trust neither police officers to be reasonable and nonviolent nor the legal structures to discipline them appropriately. It's disgusting; it's horrifying.
There is no war on cops; so police need to be strongly and repeatedly sanctioned for behaving as though they can just shoot first and never worry afterward.
posted by crush-onastick at 10:37 AM on October 22, 2015 [19 favorites]
Is there any reason why we shouldn't just assume that every plainclothes cop in the U.S. is like the plainclothes cops in Serpico?
Not according to Serpico himself.
posted by TedW at 10:48 AM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not according to Serpico himself.
posted by TedW at 10:48 AM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
> Got time to grab the gun but not the badge??
I don't know when cops in plainclothes put on their badges and take them off, but the gun goes on when the holster goes on, and the holster is part of getting dressed.
posted by Sunburnt at 10:48 AM on October 22, 2015
I don't know when cops in plainclothes put on their badges and take them off, but the gun goes on when the holster goes on, and the holster is part of getting dressed.
posted by Sunburnt at 10:48 AM on October 22, 2015
What body cams can do is make us as a society recognize we're perfectly content with police murdering our citizens. Because right now the people with a hard-on for police use the stories those thugs concoct as a plausible way to put a pretty face on their racism. Every elected official in the country should be worried that the actions of their police departments are going to cost them their jobs at ballot time; that they aren't tells us everything we need to know.
It's either that or the police are, indeed, an occupying army we cannot do anything about. Occam's razor suggests America is just a racist shithole.
.
posted by maxwelton at 10:53 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's either that or the police are, indeed, an occupying army we cannot do anything about. Occam's razor suggests America is just a racist shithole.
.
posted by maxwelton at 10:53 AM on October 22, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm starting to think that not just the police but also the citizens should have dashcams and bodycams.
At the very least, PoC need one of those one-touch recording apps that immediately sends footage to the cloud. And the app that -- again, at one touch -- immediately sends texts and social media messages advising friends and family that one has been approached by the police or people claiming to be police officers.
And then attorneys who spit hot fire need to use those kinds of recordings and messages to hammer the hell out of police departments around the country (and their apologists) when they step to us with their "This noble officer, among the most gallant and noble of humans -- indeed, a man who would not have been out of place among Arthur's knights or Charlemagne's peers -- was innocently and professionally performing his duties when his life was threatened by this inhuman monster whose face looked like a demon" bullshit.
.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:59 AM on October 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
At the very least, PoC need one of those one-touch recording apps that immediately sends footage to the cloud. And the app that -- again, at one touch -- immediately sends texts and social media messages advising friends and family that one has been approached by the police or people claiming to be police officers.
And then attorneys who spit hot fire need to use those kinds of recordings and messages to hammer the hell out of police departments around the country (and their apologists) when they step to us with their "This noble officer, among the most gallant and noble of humans -- indeed, a man who would not have been out of place among Arthur's knights or Charlemagne's peers -- was innocently and professionally performing his duties when his life was threatened by this inhuman monster whose face looked like a demon" bullshit.
.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:59 AM on October 22, 2015 [9 favorites]
Break the police unions.
Yes, if you want to ensure that events like this are not just regular but typical, go ahead and break the police unions. What's needed is not breaking them, but reforming them. Reform is much harder, of course, while union-busting is rather easy nowadays, but wait until you get a load of the assholes you get once you break up the unions, and good luck re-establishing the unions in all but the bluest of states/municipalities once that experiment fails spectacularly.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, if you want to ensure that events like this are not just regular but typical, go ahead and break the police unions. What's needed is not breaking them, but reforming them. Reform is much harder, of course, while union-busting is rather easy nowadays, but wait until you get a load of the assholes you get once you break up the unions, and good luck re-establishing the unions in all but the bluest of states/municipalities once that experiment fails spectacularly.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:04 AM on October 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Truth is, that these murders are nothing new, they have been happening since forever.
"It's crazy that once personal video recorders became ubiquitous UFOs stopped visiting Earth and cops started brutalizing people all the time"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:09 AM on October 22, 2015 [24 favorites]
"It's crazy that once personal video recorders became ubiquitous UFOs stopped visiting Earth and cops started brutalizing people all the time"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:09 AM on October 22, 2015 [24 favorites]
> I'm starting to think that not just the police but also the citizens should have dashcams and bodycams.
I agree, but prepare to be accused of paranoia, of not being realistic about the odds of anything happening to you, of being a vigilante or having a hero complex, and of being a person who's more likely to stay around, or run into, a threatening or dangerous situation rather than doing the smart thing and leaving.
Keep it concealed well, or your friends are going to get camera shy around you.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2015
I agree, but prepare to be accused of paranoia, of not being realistic about the odds of anything happening to you, of being a vigilante or having a hero complex, and of being a person who's more likely to stay around, or run into, a threatening or dangerous situation rather than doing the smart thing and leaving.
Keep it concealed well, or your friends are going to get camera shy around you.
posted by Sunburnt at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2015
I'm starting to think that not just the police but also the citizens should have dashcams and bodycams.
For dashcams at least, Russia and others have them for proving insurance issues. I really don't see why it shouldn't be as common in the US. Roads are public places, and at the moment also a common place to get killed by the police. More cameras the better.
(Hidden upside, more you tube videos of serendipitous/funny events on the roads. What if we have a crazy meteorite? Do we really want to NOT have tons and tons of random footage of it?)
posted by neonrev at 11:52 AM on October 22, 2015
For dashcams at least, Russia and others have them for proving insurance issues. I really don't see why it shouldn't be as common in the US. Roads are public places, and at the moment also a common place to get killed by the police. More cameras the better.
(Hidden upside, more you tube videos of serendipitous/funny events on the roads. What if we have a crazy meteorite? Do we really want to NOT have tons and tons of random footage of it?)
posted by neonrev at 11:52 AM on October 22, 2015
At the very least, PoC need one of those one-touch recording apps that immediately sends footage to the cloud. And the app that -- again, at one touch -- immediately sends texts and social media messages advising friends and family that one has been approached by the police or people claiming to be police officers.
I don't have words to explain how I feel when i read this and think of the same solutions bandied about with apps & smartphones for women being raped in India.
Humanity just loves to hate the Other's guts.
posted by infini at 11:56 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't have words to explain how I feel when i read this and think of the same solutions bandied about with apps & smartphones for women being raped in India.
Humanity just loves to hate the Other's guts.
posted by infini at 11:56 AM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I read Doonesbury on GoComics every day and for the last several days the strips have featured a black Senatorial staffer being arrested for being black in Palm Beach without a work card. The commenters over there are surprised and disbelieving at the idea that such a thing could happen. They say "These strips are from a long time ago. Doonesbury is only new on Sundays. Maybe this could have happened in the 70's or the 80's but not today."
Now they'd just shoot him.
posted by irisclara at 12:07 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Now they'd just shoot him.
posted by irisclara at 12:07 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sunburnt, you just described how I feel about a certain flavor of "gun rights activists."
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:12 PM on October 22, 2015
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:12 PM on October 22, 2015
>> Break the police unions.
> Yes, if you want to ensure that events like this are not just regular but typical, go ahead and break the police unions. What's needed is not breaking them, but reforming them. Reform is much harder, of course, while union-busting is rather easy nowadays, but wait until you get a load of the assholes you get once you break up the unions, and good luck re-establishing the unions in all but the bluest of states/municipalities once that experiment fails spectacularly.
> Yes, if you want to ensure that events like this are not just regular but typical, go ahead and break the police unions. What's needed is not breaking them, but reforming them. Reform is much harder, of course, while union-busting is rather easy nowadays, but wait until you get a load of the assholes you get once you break up the unions, and good luck re-establishing the unions in all but the bluest of states/municipalities once that experiment fails spectacularly.
- Police unions and guilds do not work like (or with) other unions. Busting up a police guild works differently than, and is much harder than, breaking a real union.
- We don't need to break the police unions. We don't need to reform the police unions. We need to abolish the police.
- Until we reach a point where we can abolish the police, we need to, insofar as we can, break their ability to organize to protect each other from the law.
abolish the police
Even my initial impulse was that modern society probably couldn't do without police, but hey, I went and found this instead, and there's plenty more where that came from.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:53 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even my initial impulse was that modern society probably couldn't do without police, but hey, I went and found this instead, and there's plenty more where that came from.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:53 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
If I was prone to crime I would be thinking really hard about how easy it is to impersonate police with shit like this going on. Isn't the whole reason why the police have uniforms so that we don't confuse them with other murderous gangs?
Can somebody tell me why we don't just immediately fire police who kill people? At the point where you discharge your firearm and murder somebody, regardless of whether it was in self defense or deemed necessary, diplomacy has broken down and you have failed to "keep the peace". If you suck at your job, why should the taxpayers keep paying you to do it? Any soldier with a gun can shoot people, police officers should be mediators and guardians, which is a much harder job and should be held to likewise much higher standards than "I was ascared so I unloaded a clip". This isn't a warzone, if you freak out under pressure you need to find another job.
posted by Feyala at 1:36 PM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
Can somebody tell me why we don't just immediately fire police who kill people? At the point where you discharge your firearm and murder somebody, regardless of whether it was in self defense or deemed necessary, diplomacy has broken down and you have failed to "keep the peace". If you suck at your job, why should the taxpayers keep paying you to do it? Any soldier with a gun can shoot people, police officers should be mediators and guardians, which is a much harder job and should be held to likewise much higher standards than "I was ascared so I unloaded a clip". This isn't a warzone, if you freak out under pressure you need to find another job.
posted by Feyala at 1:36 PM on October 22, 2015 [8 favorites]
.
Black lives matter.
We need to keep the beat going on this. Even one person is too much, but over nine hundred? That is beyond everything. 930 people whose families suffer THIS YEAR ALONE. 930 people who were taken from us. My heart aches.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:36 PM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Black lives matter.
We need to keep the beat going on this. Even one person is too much, but over nine hundred? That is beyond everything. 930 people whose families suffer THIS YEAR ALONE. 930 people who were taken from us. My heart aches.
posted by Deoridhe at 1:36 PM on October 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
> Sunburnt, you just described how I feel about a certain flavor of "gun rights activists."
Guns and cameras have always had a substantial amount of analogy, and that's true in this case. Anyone bearing any kind of defense against criminal predation will experience those criticisms, but I think the criticisms are generally wrong-headed. I'd tell anyone who asks, and some who don't, that carrying a gun or a camera doesn't mean the bearer/wearer can abdicate his/her responsibility towards personal safety, nor ignore the fact that neither technology, even expertly wielded, makes a person bullet- or stab-proof, and that they can only incrementally increase the possibility of bringing consequences for an attacker/exploiter/scofflaw, not directly prevent one's own victimhood.
But it's also a fact that from a pure risk standpoint, most people who can afford a body camera, and the tech infrastructure that supports it, are at vanishingly low risk of being jumped by a predatory racist cop. Yet here we are suggesting it-- some as a panacea, others as a brick in the wall at least, of saving lives and sustaining rights. We recognize that more people with cameras is better. We would oppose movements by the government to prevent people from filming in public. We oppose the imposition of cameras upon us without the countervailing right to watch the watchers. I imagine we'd even oppose a movement towards bodycam registration and permitting.
I'm not going to suggest that this analogy is complete in every way, but this is what my "gun rights activism" side of the gun debate substantially looks like. Can't kill with a camera of course, though you can hurt and manipulate pretty badly in the edit.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:06 PM on October 22, 2015
Guns and cameras have always had a substantial amount of analogy, and that's true in this case. Anyone bearing any kind of defense against criminal predation will experience those criticisms, but I think the criticisms are generally wrong-headed. I'd tell anyone who asks, and some who don't, that carrying a gun or a camera doesn't mean the bearer/wearer can abdicate his/her responsibility towards personal safety, nor ignore the fact that neither technology, even expertly wielded, makes a person bullet- or stab-proof, and that they can only incrementally increase the possibility of bringing consequences for an attacker/exploiter/scofflaw, not directly prevent one's own victimhood.
But it's also a fact that from a pure risk standpoint, most people who can afford a body camera, and the tech infrastructure that supports it, are at vanishingly low risk of being jumped by a predatory racist cop. Yet here we are suggesting it-- some as a panacea, others as a brick in the wall at least, of saving lives and sustaining rights. We recognize that more people with cameras is better. We would oppose movements by the government to prevent people from filming in public. We oppose the imposition of cameras upon us without the countervailing right to watch the watchers. I imagine we'd even oppose a movement towards bodycam registration and permitting.
I'm not going to suggest that this analogy is complete in every way, but this is what my "gun rights activism" side of the gun debate substantially looks like. Can't kill with a camera of course, though you can hurt and manipulate pretty badly in the edit.
posted by Sunburnt at 4:06 PM on October 22, 2015
Presumably we can expect gun rights activists to be outraged that this man was killed for the legal exercise of one of his most important Constitutional rights.
I can't imagine seeing it any other way.
I've had pro-control guys tee off on me plenty for clearing my throat. But I talked to a pro-gun guy who asked "why did he have it out?"
I mean, seriously? Why have your firearm out at 3am when someone is rolling up on you with serious intent? Of course you're going to have your piece ready. It's not like the cop showed up in a black and white.
But:
"Jones was licensed to carry a weapon and bought his first gun about a year-and-a-half ago to protect himself because he often played late-night gigs and carried a lot of expensive equipment, his sister Melissa Jones, 29, said. That first gun was later stolen so Jones bought another gun..."
There's the other half of the equation. If you're not responsible to take care of your firearm, your right to carry should at least be subject to review.
I have police officers over the house who put their guns on the kitchen table. They're lucky I don't put them through the wall.
Every gun should have a camera that starts running the moment your hand takes a ready stance and your finger is near the trigger. It's technologically possible.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2015
I can't imagine seeing it any other way.
I've had pro-control guys tee off on me plenty for clearing my throat. But I talked to a pro-gun guy who asked "why did he have it out?"
I mean, seriously? Why have your firearm out at 3am when someone is rolling up on you with serious intent? Of course you're going to have your piece ready. It's not like the cop showed up in a black and white.
But:
"Jones was licensed to carry a weapon and bought his first gun about a year-and-a-half ago to protect himself because he often played late-night gigs and carried a lot of expensive equipment, his sister Melissa Jones, 29, said. That first gun was later stolen so Jones bought another gun..."
There's the other half of the equation. If you're not responsible to take care of your firearm, your right to carry should at least be subject to review.
I have police officers over the house who put their guns on the kitchen table. They're lucky I don't put them through the wall.
Every gun should have a camera that starts running the moment your hand takes a ready stance and your finger is near the trigger. It's technologically possible.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:22 PM on October 22, 2015
That first gun was later stolen so Jones bought another gun..."
There's the other half of the equation. If you're not responsible to take care of your firearm, your right to carry should at least be subject to review.
You know nothing about the circumstances under which his firearm was stolen, and yet you feel comfortable indirectly accusing him of being irresponsible with it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's the other half of the equation. If you're not responsible to take care of your firearm, your right to carry should at least be subject to review.
You know nothing about the circumstances under which his firearm was stolen, and yet you feel comfortable indirectly accusing him of being irresponsible with it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:01 PM on October 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
Actually the cop block folks have been on this from go and are indeed incensed about it. They tend to be the open carry extremists who I have no patience with. There is a lot about their beliefs I find gross but you can't call them inconsistent here.
posted by phearlez at 8:30 PM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by phearlez at 8:30 PM on October 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
But I talked to a pro-gun guy who asked "why did he have it out?"
I've had this exact conversation. Do you know Steve, too?
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 AM on October 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've had this exact conversation. Do you know Steve, too?
posted by mikelieman at 1:34 AM on October 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
And then attorneys who spit hot fire need to use those kinds of recordings and messages to hammer the hell out of police departments around the country (and their apologists) when they step to us with their "This noble officer, among the most gallant and noble of humans -- indeed, a man who would not have been out of place among Arthur's knights or Charlemagne's peers -- was innocently and professionally performing his duties when his life was threatened by this inhuman monster whose face looked like a demon" bullshit.
Of course the tragedy then gets doubled because not only does the victem pay with their life but in all likelihood their own family and friends will face public service cuts when taxpayer money is used to settle police brutality lawsuits. Chicago has paid out over $500 million in police brutality and torture settlements and they are still not done with the backlog yet. Coincidentally that is about how much the teacher pension payment they are not making should be. Of course the police pension payments are being prioritized and made on time.
They murder you, then they rob your family.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Of course the tragedy then gets doubled because not only does the victem pay with their life but in all likelihood their own family and friends will face public service cuts when taxpayer money is used to settle police brutality lawsuits. Chicago has paid out over $500 million in police brutality and torture settlements and they are still not done with the backlog yet. Coincidentally that is about how much the teacher pension payment they are not making should be. Of course the police pension payments are being prioritized and made on time.
They murder you, then they rob your family.
posted by srboisvert at 6:16 AM on October 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
A fucking travesty. I could see some kind of argument if the cop had been in uniform and/or in a marked car, but a plainclothes officer in an unmarked vehicle? In a lot of states it is against the law for them to be patrolling like that. In many states where it isn't against the law, it would be in direct contravention of departmental policy in most police departments.
And WTF was this cop doing investigating a car stopped on an I-95 off ramp? That's what the state troopers are for. (Pretty sure their policy allows for stops in unmarked cars, but only by uniformed officers) In one state I lived in, it wasn't even legal for local yokels to patrol on the highway. Period. And that was a good thing, since there are serious traffic safety issues with performing stops or investigations on or near a freeway that are only mitigated by strong policy prescriptions and officer training.
This situation was very wrong long before anybody got shot. Anybody else would have been charged with murder or manslaughter by now thanks to those deficiencies in judgement.
posted by wierdo at 1:02 PM on October 23, 2015
And WTF was this cop doing investigating a car stopped on an I-95 off ramp? That's what the state troopers are for. (Pretty sure their policy allows for stops in unmarked cars, but only by uniformed officers) In one state I lived in, it wasn't even legal for local yokels to patrol on the highway. Period. And that was a good thing, since there are serious traffic safety issues with performing stops or investigations on or near a freeway that are only mitigated by strong policy prescriptions and officer training.
This situation was very wrong long before anybody got shot. Anybody else would have been charged with murder or manslaughter by now thanks to those deficiencies in judgement.
posted by wierdo at 1:02 PM on October 23, 2015
wierdo: "there are serious traffic safety issues with performing stops or investigations on or near a freeway"
Funny you should mention that. Here's a picture of how the off-duty police officer pulled his van up to Corey Jones' car.
posted by mhum at 6:50 PM on October 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Funny you should mention that. Here's a picture of how the off-duty police officer pulled his van up to Corey Jones' car.
posted by mhum at 6:50 PM on October 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
Here's a picture of how the off-duty police officer pulled his van up to Corey Jones' car.
That... that can't be right, can it? I mean, that's so insanely wrong that I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the cop was on fucking acid after seeing that.
posted by Etrigan at 7:21 PM on October 24, 2015
That... that can't be right, can it? I mean, that's so insanely wrong that I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out the cop was on fucking acid after seeing that.
posted by Etrigan at 7:21 PM on October 24, 2015
That's how you pull up your vehicle if you plan on jumping someone and don't want them to get away.
posted by idiopath at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 8:20 PM on October 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that is fucked up. A couple months ago I blew a tire on the freeway and had to pull over, and miracle of miracles, a CHP officer pulled up a few minutes later - behind me, with his SUV's front end pointed out, and all lights on and blinking. Because he was there to keep me from being hit by other motorists and them from hitting me.
posted by rtha at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2015
posted by rtha at 8:25 PM on October 24, 2015
That's how you pull up your vehicle if you plan on jumping someone and don't want them to get away.
What blows my mind is that it doesn't even seem to be that. The car could easily get around the van in that configuration. The only reason I can think of to put the van there is that the van's engine block provides cover from the car's driver's seat and a little bit from someone shooting over the hood, but even that seems like a really bad position compared to a little farther ahead and more in front of the car.
Plus, of course, why would anyone in any frame of mind have cause to believe that a dude sitting by a car at the side of an off-ramp is anything but a broken-down driver? I know, racism. I guess the cop could have thought that Jones was "laying in wait" for some other poor samaritan to come along and get carjacked or something, but...
Ugh. I know we'll never get to the bottom of this, but I hope some enterprising journalist keeps poking at it, because either that cop was completely fucking whacked out of his mind on something, or they're teaching them to be even more insane than they do in Ferguson.
posted by Etrigan at 6:29 AM on October 25, 2015
What blows my mind is that it doesn't even seem to be that. The car could easily get around the van in that configuration. The only reason I can think of to put the van there is that the van's engine block provides cover from the car's driver's seat and a little bit from someone shooting over the hood, but even that seems like a really bad position compared to a little farther ahead and more in front of the car.
Plus, of course, why would anyone in any frame of mind have cause to believe that a dude sitting by a car at the side of an off-ramp is anything but a broken-down driver? I know, racism. I guess the cop could have thought that Jones was "laying in wait" for some other poor samaritan to come along and get carjacked or something, but...
Ugh. I know we'll never get to the bottom of this, but I hope some enterprising journalist keeps poking at it, because either that cop was completely fucking whacked out of his mind on something, or they're teaching them to be even more insane than they do in Ferguson.
posted by Etrigan at 6:29 AM on October 25, 2015
Can I just say that I am gobsmacked that people are apparently unaware that it is possible to have more than one call in progress on a cell phone? I don't recall the exact number at&t allows, but the GSM standard, which carries over to the 3G and 4G networks allow up to 5.
Call waiting, placing multiple calls on hold, conferencing multiple calls, all are possible and not even that unusual.
posted by wierdo at 12:24 AM on October 27, 2015
Call waiting, placing multiple calls on hold, conferencing multiple calls, all are possible and not even that unusual.
posted by wierdo at 12:24 AM on October 27, 2015
Nine minutes later, he called *FHP, the Florida Highway Patrol’s main line. The records indicate that the call lasted four minutes, but an FHP spokesman wasn’t able to obtain the content of the call late Monday.
So, let me get this straight. Stranded Motorist notifies the "Authorities Having Jurisdiction" in a timely manner, and *then* is shot dead by a L.E.O. from a *different* department ( Palm Beach Gardens? )
posted by mikelieman at 12:43 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, let me get this straight. Stranded Motorist notifies the "Authorities Having Jurisdiction" in a timely manner, and *then* is shot dead by a L.E.O. from a *different* department ( Palm Beach Gardens? )
posted by mikelieman at 12:43 AM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The last call, at 3:10 a.m., was 53 minutes, which indicates the line was still open when Palm Beach Gardens officer Nouman Raja said he was forced to shoot Jones because Jones charged at him with a gun.Palm Beach Post link should work
posted by tilde at 2:40 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
“What will save him (Raja) is the fact that Corey Jones has a weapon,” Kaplan said.PBP link locks down after five free articles
According to the family, Raja fired two volleys of shots at Jones. First, when Jones was next to his car and second, when Jones was running away.
posted by tilde at 7:23 AM on November 6, 2015
I would take with a grain of salt any article that draws conclusions based on that much input from Roy Black, an attorney who has never met a convictable person in all his life. Which is a fine trait about your own clients, I guess, but his level of bluster is hard to beat.
posted by phearlez at 8:06 AM on November 6, 2015
posted by phearlez at 8:06 AM on November 6, 2015
According to news reports, Raja has been fired and is under investigation.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:59 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by zombieflanders at 10:59 AM on November 12, 2015
“Inside small-town Louisiana feud that led to a 6-year-old boy’s police killing,” William Wan, The Washington Post, 15 November 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 7:51 PM on November 16, 2015
posted by ob1quixote at 7:51 PM on November 16, 2015
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posted by prepmonkey at 7:41 AM on October 22, 2015 [15 favorites]