Before the day is over, perhaps we could take just a moment...
November 11, 2015 7:26 PM Subscribe
In Flanders Fields read by Michael Enright.
Jesus, WWI was a waste. I was impatient between the episodes of the "Hardcore History" podcast the covered WWI over the last year or so, but getting through each multi-hour listening session got pretty hard.
Bless them all.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Bless them all.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Wow, that Leonard Cohen version is good. And I didn't know it was the 100th anniversary of the poem this year!)
posted by wenestvedt at 7:42 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 7:42 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thank you, HuronBob. I came in to post the Leonard Cohen version, too.
posted by angiep at 7:44 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by angiep at 7:44 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
The story of how the poppy became the symbol of remembrance as a response to this poem, here.
And a sobering display of remembrance poppies was last year's amazing Tower of London art exhibit , when one ceramic poppy was planted for each English and colonial soldier that died. . .the magnitude of loss best appreciated aerially.
posted by barchan at 7:49 PM on November 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
And a sobering display of remembrance poppies was last year's amazing Tower of London art exhibit , when one ceramic poppy was planted for each English and colonial soldier that died. . .the magnitude of loss best appreciated aerially.
posted by barchan at 7:49 PM on November 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
Obscure simpsons reference, thanks for the link to Leonard Cohen's reading.
posted by HuronBob at 7:55 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 7:55 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
That last verse always turned the poem into a twisted parody of itself for me. Somehow those first two verses lead to an exhortation to throw more boys into the grinder?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:08 PM on November 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:08 PM on November 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
Paul Fussel, in The Great War and Modern Memory, on the last stanza:
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
" We finally see—and with a shock—what the last six lines really are: they
are a propaganda argument—words like vicious and stupid would not seem
to go too far—against a negotiated peace.... grievously out of
contact with the symbolism of the first part, which the final image of
poppies as sleep-inducers fatally recall "
It's not often emphasized that the poem - used extensively to argue for conscription and in recruitment drives -- was basically a part of the propaganda machine that caused the madness, rather than a somber witness of its terrible effects.
posted by cacofonie at 8:26 PM on November 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
" We finally see—and with a shock—what the last six lines really are: they
are a propaganda argument—words like vicious and stupid would not seem
to go too far—against a negotiated peace.... grievously out of
contact with the symbolism of the first part, which the final image of
poppies as sleep-inducers fatally recall "
It's not often emphasized that the poem - used extensively to argue for conscription and in recruitment drives -- was basically a part of the propaganda machine that caused the madness, rather than a somber witness of its terrible effects.
posted by cacofonie at 8:26 PM on November 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
That last verse always turned the poem into a twisted parody of itself for me. Somehow those first two verses lead to an exhortation to throw more boys into the grinder?
You know, the last verse is really what makes the poem. I suggest you read it with an open mind about ten or twelve more times.
posted by 256 at 8:35 PM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
You know, the last verse is really what makes the poem. I suggest you read it with an open mind about ten or twelve more times.
posted by 256 at 8:35 PM on November 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
What Have We Learned, Charlie Brown?
(Previously onPeanuts Good Ol' Charlie Brown)
posted by BiggerJ at 8:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Previously on
posted by BiggerJ at 8:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had to recite it for a remembrance service in public school and had a lot of anxiety over the last verse. I finally decided to put everything I had into the first two parts and then quickly sing-songed through to the ending.
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:56 PM on November 11, 2015
posted by bonobothegreat at 8:56 PM on November 11, 2015
It would make more sense to read and remember Wilfred Owen's poetry on Remembrance Day. It really would.
posted by Nevin at 9:08 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Nevin at 9:08 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think to understand the final verse, you need to find yourself in the boots of those whom the poem honors... The fallen...
Those that have served, those that have died, lost limbs, suffered trauma, deal with PTS, those individuals yearn to feel that the loss wasn't in vain. They pass the torch, they need to believe it will be taken up...
Today was their day...
I posted this, as a vet, after spending a day divided between home and work...with the only acknowledgment I encountered being a sign in front of a quick copy shop I passed on the way to the office that said "thank you vets".... In a world of turmoil and death for those in the military, those that serve deserve more.
To the Metafilter members that served... thank you...
posted by HuronBob at 9:09 PM on November 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
Those that have served, those that have died, lost limbs, suffered trauma, deal with PTS, those individuals yearn to feel that the loss wasn't in vain. They pass the torch, they need to believe it will be taken up...
Today was their day...
I posted this, as a vet, after spending a day divided between home and work...with the only acknowledgment I encountered being a sign in front of a quick copy shop I passed on the way to the office that said "thank you vets".... In a world of turmoil and death for those in the military, those that serve deserve more.
To the Metafilter members that served... thank you...
posted by HuronBob at 9:09 PM on November 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
I have read the last stanza plenty of times, and every time it makes the poem seem more of a cynical and crude exercise in banal sentimentality.
posted by thelonius at 9:26 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 9:26 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
In any case, thanks to those who served and peace to the dead.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:38 PM on November 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
In Flanders Fields was indeed a propaganda poem. Here's one that's more representative of the actualities of WWI.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 9:43 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Pyrogenesis at 9:43 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I always play the Pogues' version of Waltzing Matilda on November 11, and though I'm neither Australian nor Irish, that simple song destroys me every time.
I wish we had more stark and baleful popular art motivated by the regret and pain of our more recent calamities, but we seem to be getting better about keeping them out of view.
posted by notyou at 9:48 PM on November 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
I wish we had more stark and baleful popular art motivated by the regret and pain of our more recent calamities, but we seem to be getting better about keeping them out of view.
posted by notyou at 9:48 PM on November 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
The Pogues "And the band played Waltzing Matilda"...
Thanks for that...
posted by HuronBob at 10:05 PM on November 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thanks for that...
posted by HuronBob at 10:05 PM on November 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
So, the thing that really got to me today was this incredible, brilliant and disturbing mapping project that I stumbled on, by a gentleman named Patrick Cain. It's a few years old, but someone tweeted it today: a war casualty map that he made of downtown Toronto (there's a few Canadian cities and different maps at the link).
Casualties are represented by poppies overlaid at the location of their pre-war residence. When you zoom out on the city it's a massive cluster of red.
Of course I looked for my house. Nothing there, but I found a poppy marking my neighbour's house, the other side of the wall from where I'm sitting right now, where a young man lived generations ago, and was killed in WW2 in 1943 at the ripe old age of 21. That just really struck me in the gut.
I sent my neighbour the link and she was quite moved.
posted by chococat at 10:05 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Casualties are represented by poppies overlaid at the location of their pre-war residence. When you zoom out on the city it's a massive cluster of red.
Of course I looked for my house. Nothing there, but I found a poppy marking my neighbour's house, the other side of the wall from where I'm sitting right now, where a young man lived generations ago, and was killed in WW2 in 1943 at the ripe old age of 21. That just really struck me in the gut.
I sent my neighbour the link and she was quite moved.
posted by chococat at 10:05 PM on November 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I prefer Eric Bogle's original version of "And the band played Waltzing Matilda", but The Pogues version isn't bad. Another great Eric Bogle song -
No Man's Land
Well, how'd you do, Private William Mcbride?
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside?
I'll rest here awhile in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, Lord, and I'm nearly done.
And I see by your gravestone you were only 19
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916--
Well, I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean,
Or, Willie Mcbride, was it slow and obscene?
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they sound the fife lowly,
Did the rifles fire o'er you as they lowered you down?
Did the bugles sing "The Last Post" in chorus?
Did the pipes play "The Flowers of the Forest?"
Did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind?
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined
And, though you died back in 1916,
To that loyal heart are you always 19?
Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Forever enshrined behind some glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame?
The sun's shining down on these green fields of France;
The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow;
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard it's still No Man's Land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.
And I can't help but wonder, now Willie Mcbride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you 'The Cause? '
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie Mcbride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
posted by dazed_one at 10:13 PM on November 11, 2015 [17 favorites]
No Man's Land
Well, how'd you do, Private William Mcbride?
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside?
I'll rest here awhile in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, Lord, and I'm nearly done.
And I see by your gravestone you were only 19
When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916--
Well, I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean,
Or, Willie Mcbride, was it slow and obscene?
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they sound the fife lowly,
Did the rifles fire o'er you as they lowered you down?
Did the bugles sing "The Last Post" in chorus?
Did the pipes play "The Flowers of the Forest?"
Did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind?
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined
And, though you died back in 1916,
To that loyal heart are you always 19?
Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Forever enshrined behind some glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame?
The sun's shining down on these green fields of France;
The warm wind blows gently, and the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow;
No gas and no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard it's still No Man's Land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned.
And I can't help but wonder, now Willie Mcbride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you 'The Cause? '
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie Mcbride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again.
posted by dazed_one at 10:13 PM on November 11, 2015 [17 favorites]
The Concord Hymn
By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard 'round the world.
The foe long last in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And time the ruind bridge has swept,
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.
On this green bank by this soft stream
We set today a votive stone
In memory may their deeds redeem
When like our sires our sons are gone.
Spirit who made these heroes dare,
To die and leave their children free
May time and nature gently spare
This shaft we raise to them and thee.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Many thanks to those who serve this nation, and whose sacrifices leave us free.
posted by Oyéah at 10:23 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard 'round the world.
The foe long last in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And time the ruind bridge has swept,
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.
On this green bank by this soft stream
We set today a votive stone
In memory may their deeds redeem
When like our sires our sons are gone.
Spirit who made these heroes dare,
To die and leave their children free
May time and nature gently spare
This shaft we raise to them and thee.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Many thanks to those who serve this nation, and whose sacrifices leave us free.
posted by Oyéah at 10:23 PM on November 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
In Flanders Fields was indeed a propaganda poem. Here's one that's more representative of the actualities of WWI.
Yeah, I've always preferred Dulce et Decorum Est. Such a devastating and truthful poem.
posted by Justinian at 12:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I've always preferred Dulce et Decorum Est. Such a devastating and truthful poem.
posted by Justinian at 12:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think the spectacle and vivid colours of our recollection of WWII is not doing us any favours as a species. WWII had everything; dastardly enemies, plucky small nations, steely-eyed paratroopers, sleek machines, experimental technology, a satisfying outcome. This masks the sheer waste and horror behind it all.
We would do better to let images of WWI colour our imaginations and ideas about what war is.
posted by Harald74 at 1:17 AM on November 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
We would do better to let images of WWI colour our imaginations and ideas about what war is.
posted by Harald74 at 1:17 AM on November 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
"I have read the last stanza plenty of times, and every time it makes the poem seem more of a cynical and crude exercise in banal sentimentality."A century of desperate fascist and then neo-fascist efforts to portray WWI as being somehow no one's fault or without meaning, much less somehow a conspiracy of Jews, has only just finally started to actually take root as people have forgotten why so many millions volunteered. The torch that is being passed to us across ages mattered, and it matters now.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:05 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Another great Eric Bogle song
And one that was butchered by the Royal British Legion (and Joss Stone) as part of the fundraising last year by cutting off the final two and a half verses.
posted by Francis at 2:56 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
And one that was butchered by the Royal British Legion (and Joss Stone) as part of the fundraising last year by cutting off the final two and a half verses.
posted by Francis at 2:56 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey, Huron Bob: thank you for putting on the uniform, taking the oath, and serving your term.
Not everyone seeks or finds glory in the military; it's not necessary. I am grateful for everyone who put in their years, and who carries all the memories of that time.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:21 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not everyone seeks or finds glory in the military; it's not necessary. I am grateful for everyone who put in their years, and who carries all the memories of that time.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:21 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Growing up in Australia we sang 'And the band played Walzing Matilda' in school. The versions mentioned above are great but I think it's especially poignant to hear it sung by 60 eight year olds. We never had any illusions about war, anyway.
posted by kitten magic at 3:25 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kitten magic at 3:25 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I took the day to remember Harry Patch:
In July 2007, marking the 90th anniversary of the beginning of the Battle of Passchendaele, Patch revisited the site of the battle in Flanders, to pay his respects to the fallen on both sides. He was accompanied by a historian, Richard van Emden. On this occasion, Patch described war as the "calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings" and said that "war isn't worth one life."
posted by vacapinta at 4:07 AM on November 12, 2015
In July 2007, marking the 90th anniversary of the beginning of the Battle of Passchendaele, Patch revisited the site of the battle in Flanders, to pay his respects to the fallen on both sides. He was accompanied by a historian, Richard van Emden. On this occasion, Patch described war as the "calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings" and said that "war isn't worth one life."
posted by vacapinta at 4:07 AM on November 12, 2015
I posted this, as a vet, after spending a day divided between home and work...with the only acknowledgment I encountered being a sign in front of a quick copy shop I passed on the way to the office that said "thank you vets".... In a world of turmoil and death for those in the military, those that serve deserve more.
Indeed. At the very least, you and other vets should get the goddamn day off with pay. Talk is cheap. You want to honor veterans for their service? Give them back a tiny part of that part of the time that they sacrificed for your military. You know who gets every Veteran's Day off? Schoolchildren. How many schoolchildren are veterans?
Full disclosure: I am a vet, but I'm retired, so my proposal would not benefit me. Also, I have a kid in school.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:43 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Indeed. At the very least, you and other vets should get the goddamn day off with pay. Talk is cheap. You want to honor veterans for their service? Give them back a tiny part of that part of the time that they sacrificed for your military. You know who gets every Veteran's Day off? Schoolchildren. How many schoolchildren are veterans?
Full disclosure: I am a vet, but I'm retired, so my proposal would not benefit me. Also, I have a kid in school.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:43 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Well, there are a lot of recent vets in college on the G.I. Bill... But they are also more serious students than many who enrolled straight out of high school, so maybe they would prefer to stay in class and get done!)
posted by wenestvedt at 5:28 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by wenestvedt at 5:28 AM on November 12, 2015
You mean it isn't a holiday in the US? It a provincial holiday in many parts of Canada, with the expectation that you head to the nearest war memorial at 11:00 am that day for a wreath laying ceremony, and possibly a parade before that.
posted by peppermind at 6:28 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 6:28 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
My Canadian husband asked me if we had Remembrance Day in the US. I said for us it's Veteran's Day but it doesn't seem as visible as it does here, where so many wear the poppy.
posted by Kitteh at 6:37 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by Kitteh at 6:37 AM on November 12, 2015
In addition to "Dulce er Decorum est," I usually observe yesterday's remembrance with the war poetry of Siegfried Sassoon.
posted by Gelatin at 6:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Gelatin at 6:40 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
In passing, the G.I. Bill got a lot of vets an education and housing. But Blacks who served in a segregated army had little chance of getting bank loans for homes or getting into colleges...
I knew Fussell, cited above, while he taught at Rutgers, and his now classic book about WWI is in large measure about the romantic view of war that was to change with the reality of of the trenches.
posted by Postroad at 6:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
I knew Fussell, cited above, while he taught at Rutgers, and his now classic book about WWI is in large measure about the romantic view of war that was to change with the reality of of the trenches.
posted by Postroad at 6:49 AM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
You mean it isn't a holiday in the US?
It's a holiday in the US, but it's not a statutory holiday like Canada (or at least Ontario) has. The US doesn't have any stat holidays. Veterans Day is a federal holiday, but all that means is that federal workers get the day off. Mostly. If your boss says you work, you work, and unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, you work for your normal rate of pay.
I said for us it's Veteran's Day but it doesn't seem as visible as it does here, where so many wear the poppy.
We also have Memorial Day, and at its base 11/11 is still largely about World War 1, which was just not the national psychic scar in the US that it was in Europe or the commonwealth. Memorial Day, which is rooted in the Civil War dead, is more likely to have parades and suchlike.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on November 12, 2015
It's a holiday in the US, but it's not a statutory holiday like Canada (or at least Ontario) has. The US doesn't have any stat holidays. Veterans Day is a federal holiday, but all that means is that federal workers get the day off. Mostly. If your boss says you work, you work, and unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise, you work for your normal rate of pay.
I said for us it's Veteran's Day but it doesn't seem as visible as it does here, where so many wear the poppy.
We also have Memorial Day, and at its base 11/11 is still largely about World War 1, which was just not the national psychic scar in the US that it was in Europe or the commonwealth. Memorial Day, which is rooted in the Civil War dead, is more likely to have parades and suchlike.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on November 12, 2015
Propaganda piece? Fine. I also heard someone say that the VN Memorial Wall in DC was a tribute to war. Each to his own. Having a nice Veterans' Day is great. I'm happy to see that I can get some free meals here and there; I'm pretty sure it would be a different story if I had to stash my rucksack under the bridge before I went inside to eat. Mostly it's my brothers they find dead under the bridges, is what I mean by that. Not many people think to mention the sisters who served.
I played at a function at St. Vincent de Paul for Thanksgiving Day last year. Some of the other players were grossed out that many of the folks at the tables wore shoddy clothes, and obviously hadn't bathed in recent memory. At our jam the next day they said scornful things about people who probably hadn't heard live music in years, and who eat a sumptuous meal maybe once or twice a year. I had no way to deal with these conversations. Anyhow, our org did go there and play for free. I say this only for comparison--sometimes people believe they see the forest, but they don't seem to understand what a tree is.
Thanks for your service, my brothers and sisters. I go to the VA for medical care. I have had generally good luck with this lately. Some years ago I had a hard time, but nowadays the machine is working fairly well for me. I don't piss and moan too much about lack of VA funding or petty malfeasance by the VA. What really makes my face hurt is seeing young soldiers in the waiting room. Kids who went to war. I thought I had already gotten to the point, but I see that I have not. I don't know if I can even ever articulate the point. Somehow it seems unfair that something so uncomplicated is that hard to characterize. No, Kidnapping Arnie's daughter or slapping Rambo isn't what I mean. That's displacement, and that's what lets you off the hook.
November is a time of remembrance for me. November is back to back operations, Hump in D-Zone and then New Life in the La Nga River Valley. Veterans' Day is for the civilians who have as foggy a notion about my history as I had about the guys who went to Cuba, The Philippines, in 1899, or France in 1917.
What I hate most is perspective. Don't fuck with my metaphors.
Oh, Johhny, I hardly knew ye.
posted by mule98J at 10:51 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
I played at a function at St. Vincent de Paul for Thanksgiving Day last year. Some of the other players were grossed out that many of the folks at the tables wore shoddy clothes, and obviously hadn't bathed in recent memory. At our jam the next day they said scornful things about people who probably hadn't heard live music in years, and who eat a sumptuous meal maybe once or twice a year. I had no way to deal with these conversations. Anyhow, our org did go there and play for free. I say this only for comparison--sometimes people believe they see the forest, but they don't seem to understand what a tree is.
Thanks for your service, my brothers and sisters. I go to the VA for medical care. I have had generally good luck with this lately. Some years ago I had a hard time, but nowadays the machine is working fairly well for me. I don't piss and moan too much about lack of VA funding or petty malfeasance by the VA. What really makes my face hurt is seeing young soldiers in the waiting room. Kids who went to war. I thought I had already gotten to the point, but I see that I have not. I don't know if I can even ever articulate the point. Somehow it seems unfair that something so uncomplicated is that hard to characterize. No, Kidnapping Arnie's daughter or slapping Rambo isn't what I mean. That's displacement, and that's what lets you off the hook.
November is a time of remembrance for me. November is back to back operations, Hump in D-Zone and then New Life in the La Nga River Valley. Veterans' Day is for the civilians who have as foggy a notion about my history as I had about the guys who went to Cuba, The Philippines, in 1899, or France in 1917.
What I hate most is perspective. Don't fuck with my metaphors.
Oh, Johhny, I hardly knew ye.
posted by mule98J at 10:51 AM on November 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
The torch that is being passed to us across ages mattered, and it matters now.
I guess this is representative of the two, core, and conflicting identities and messages of rememberance day. Besides the obvious, central goal of remembering and thanking those who have sacrificed their lives in wartime, what is really the objective?
Is it to:
A. Reflect on the useless, hypocracy, self-propelling nature of war?
OR
3. Glorify the exploits of the past, as something that was terrible but necessary, and, in some small way, prepare us for the exploits that will be expected of us in the future.
posted by cacofonie at 12:44 PM on November 12, 2015
I guess this is representative of the two, core, and conflicting identities and messages of rememberance day. Besides the obvious, central goal of remembering and thanking those who have sacrificed their lives in wartime, what is really the objective?
Is it to:
A. Reflect on the useless, hypocracy, self-propelling nature of war?
OR
3. Glorify the exploits of the past, as something that was terrible but necessary, and, in some small way, prepare us for the exploits that will be expected of us in the future.
posted by cacofonie at 12:44 PM on November 12, 2015
I see Remembrance Day and Veterans Day as a day to honor the fallen dead, the walking wounded, and the service of young men and women to their respective countries. It's a serious day of remembrance and sober reflection on people who came before us and that walk among us now, and the sacrifices they made. No more, no less. It's not a fucking political opportunity to take a stance on the horrible nature of war. We all know it's fucking horrible, but that doesn't and shouldn't diminish their service, and anyone trying to apply a political bent to it should be ashamed.
posted by disclaimer at 2:36 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by disclaimer at 2:36 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
And I don't say this enough: thank you for your service, fellow vets.
posted by disclaimer at 2:37 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by disclaimer at 2:37 PM on November 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by obscure simpsons reference at 7:37 PM on November 11, 2015 [14 favorites]