There are trolls in this forest

February 23, 2016 2:54 PM

A forest kindergarten is a type of preschool education for children between the ages of three and six that is held almost exclusively outdoors. Whatever the weather, children are encouraged to play, explore and learn in a forest or natural environment. The adult supervision is meant to assist rather than lead. Amos Roberts, reporting for SBS Australia, gets a first hand impression of what this means in practice when he visits one in Denmark.
posted by brokkr (51 comments total)

Does anybody know where to file the paperwork for reincarnation requests?
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:13 PM on February 23, 2016 [16 favorites]

One boy’s spontaneous question about worms leads to a discussion about habitat, predators and prey, and eventually ends with the boy observing that mice enjoy eating pancakes.

What kind of wilderness has pancakes? Truly, Denmark is a land of wonders.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:16 PM on February 23, 2016 [33 favorites]

We do outdoor kindergarten as an option on the west coast of British Columbia. It's an incredibly popular program. I suspect it's done in other parts of Canada, too.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:19 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, please bring this to the United States (maybe it exists somewhere.) Of course, one kid gets hurt and they might lose their insurance causing them to close the business. That is a real concern.
I had a ridiculous amount of freedom growing up and wouldn't trade it for anything.
I know some people that won't let their kids go outside on a cloudy day because it might rain and they might get wet and they might get sick and they might die.
Oh and don't leave the house without a 5 gallon bucket of hand sanitizer!
posted by Muncle at 3:26 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

A version of this is done in the mountains of Colorado. We leave the little wonders deep in National forest land with a knife. Those that walk out graduate. I feel bad for those parents who's kids don't walk out of course, I mean who wants to be known as the parent of a kindergarten loser.
posted by evilDoug at 3:26 PM on February 23, 2016 [21 favorites]

My kids went/are going to "outdoor kindergarten" here in California. We ended up there by accident of our fantastic state enrollment policy -- it was the only one that would allow "late" registration to get them in mid-year after they turned five. Tuesdays they go down to the river, Thursdays down through the open space of oaks and grasslands to a public park. Both trips are like a mile and a quarter. Wednesdays are on campus but outside: they make soup on a Coleman stove. (M + Fr are homeschooled because that's how that cookie crumbles). As far as I know they are not allowed toddler pigstickers -- this being 'Murica and all.

Is this idyllic? Yes! Am I jealous? Yes! Their snack time is like this amazing transformation of good manners and outdoor living; we get invited for birthdays which are excellent. Ironically neither teacher considers themselves outdoorsy people despite being rigged as tight as through-hikers with their gear.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:26 PM on February 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

These types of approach are becoming increasingly popular in the UK, too. 'Forest School' is the one I've heard mentioned most by teachers. It just makes so much sense, really. It should be obvious that a vital way of stimulating learning is being in a stimulating environment. Which is why the Dickensian fantasies of so many politicians, with regards to teaching, are so fucking depressing.
posted by howfar at 3:27 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

The half-elf ranger I always played in D&D back in the day is having a moment right now.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:30 PM on February 23, 2016 [29 favorites]

I fantasized about these. I didn't know they were real!
posted by aniola at 3:37 PM on February 23, 2016

Some of the happier times I had in middle school were playing in the upper part with the handball court, that were the still somewhat preserved remnants of an oak forest, so I'd probably have loved this. Seeing the new school bums me because while certainly I wouldn't be getting colds every two weeks (they were prefabs, very poorly insulated prefabs), the whole thing is cement, cement, cement. Just a patch of grass and some trees. Sure, I ripped a lot of pants (but it was the early/mid 90s, so I was being unintentionally cool) and saw my friends faceplant from the trees and the wall quite a few times, but nobody died or got terribly injured.

What a pity no one would let Johan Laigaard run a kindergarten in Australia.
Considering what I've read about the nature in Australia, is that really a good idea?
posted by lmfsilva at 3:46 PM on February 23, 2016

As people keep pointing out, the very landscape - let alone the flora and fauna - here in Australia will try to kill you at every opportunity.

Gotta say, though, that the baby carpet snake I picked up from near the hose & relocated to a nearby tree the other day was pretty cute…
posted by Pinback at 3:49 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Here's one in Fife, Scotland. Lucky kids!
posted by penguin pie at 3:59 PM on February 23, 2016

OK, so where do they pee? Because 5 year olds don't always give you a lot of warning when they need to use the bathroom.
posted by maryr at 3:59 PM on February 23, 2016

In the woods, presumably... (or the field, or wherever they happen to be).
posted by penguin pie at 4:01 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yes, like the Pope, but an entire class of kids repeatedly peeing the same bit of forest is not really great for the plant life.
posted by maryr at 4:02 PM on February 23, 2016

Huh? Surely forests are full of creatures peeing and pooing in them all the time. A few pre-school-sized bladders aren't going to make a huge difference. Looks like most of these nurseries roam a bit, too, it's not like they're all staying in the same square 10 metres all day, every day.
posted by penguin pie at 4:06 PM on February 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

There is actually one forest/bush kindergarten program in Australia - Westgarth Kindergarten's Bush Kinder program in Melbourne. Held "almost exclusively outdoors", so I'm not sure how closely it adheres to the Denmark model.
posted by fever-trees at 4:06 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

My family spent quite a lot of time hiking, camping and backpacking when I was little. I liked all the stick poking, log climbing, and throwing rocks at things, but I also appreciated a lot of time somewhere dry, reading books. So I hope there is space in these schools for the quiet reading kids as well.
posted by Squeak Attack at 4:07 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

So I hope there is space in these schools for the quiet reading kids as well.

Its just kindergarten: here at least that's a shortish day with lots of hours afterwards and most at that age are book lookers. "Plenty o' indoor time in the next twelve years."

OK, so where do they pee?

Such a good question: before the kids head out at our school they're marched into the potty aforehand, down at the river there's facilities but at the park...it is a mystery! I'll have to ask. The idea that you'd have kids->anyone just doing it in a place you're going to be more than a couple of days is unworkable, even in the forest. The Danes had support structures lurking in the background, likely the same deal.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 4:16 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

You're never too young to learn how to dig a proper latrine at least 30m from any water source.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:16 PM on February 23, 2016 [17 favorites]

My kids’ school in the US is right up against a park and they have going into the forest once a week as part of their curriculum. Here's a recent blog post from the kindergarten teacher.
posted by mrbeefy at 4:17 PM on February 23, 2016

Actually the potty question is a good one that I had never considered before myself. Denmark being Denmark, there's of course a kindergarten which describes in English on their website how this works:

With regard to toilet visits the children go to the toilet in the wood and are either held by a member of staff or use a specially made toilet seat which is placed over a hole in the ground. The children and staff have the opportunity to disinfect their hands following toilet visits.

posted by brokkr at 4:22 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

School's Out: Lessons from a Forest Kindergarten [trailer, excerpt] (via)
-Forest kindergarten: Watch kids in Switzerland go to school outside in School's Out
-At Germany's forest kindergartens, kids get to play with fire -- and learn their own lessons
posted by kliuless at 4:32 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hey, my 3 year old goes to one of these! It is INCREDIBLE. She loves it and is learning so much. 3 days a week outside in Seattle weather is no joke either.

And it's called Fiddleheads!

(They use a porta potty)
posted by tristeza at 4:37 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm going to be Debbie Downer and just mention that part-time, half day or part-week programs are not feasible for households with two full time working parents. And it was ever thus, but with a schooling model that gets sort of impossible to implement for full 9-10 hour days such as being-outside-all-the-time, I'm just going to assume that even if we had one of these where I live, I wouldn't be able to use it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:47 PM on February 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

Fear and ignorance are much more dangerous than a knife.
posted by ethansr at 4:52 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Forest School" seems like primary source ancient history for preschoolers. When they graduate year 12 one of the questions will be "Explain what trees and nature used to look like".
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:26 PM on February 23, 2016

My daughter will be attending something like this when she's old enough. We're in MA and it's really more of a farm than a forest (though they have plenty of time in the woods). We're really excited! It's right up her alley!

Only issue is that it's not 5 days a week and some parents, you know, work, so we're going to have to figure out a second program for the rest. Apparently it's not a thing to need childcare all week once you hit pre-school, who would have thunk it?
posted by lydhre at 5:32 PM on February 23, 2016

I love this.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:10 PM on February 23, 2016

There is one of those in Ottawa - too far from where we live to have sent our kids, but a friend of mine sent his daughters there. They loved it. Apparently the transition to a normal school later on was a bit jarring for them. I was impressed that those kids could handle being outside in Ottawa winters.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:19 PM on February 23, 2016

No greater gift can be given a child than the freedom to explore nature...and the love a parent gives to allow the child to do so.
posted by shockingbluamp at 6:25 PM on February 23, 2016

Apparently it's not a thing to need childcare all week once you hit pre-school, who would have thunk it?

All the fanciest preschools here are half-day and part-week. I guess it's okay because nanny can handle the rest of the time? We use an unfancy daycare that goes straight through age 5. My parents offered to help us pay for a private Montessori pre-K but I turned them down because we need someone looking after him for the entire work day, not just part of it.

I'll just have to make do with going outside with him on the weekends, with the rest of the plebs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:29 PM on February 23, 2016

I hear you, Soren. There is a really neat outdoor preschool here in Portland near Tryon Creek state park. I so wanted to send mine there but she neared the age at the same time that I was starting back to work full time in a regular office. Not compatible with "fancy" preschool/daycare. We ended up sending her to a couple different care facilities. By far the ones with the longest care and fewest off days are those associated with Catholic institutions.

Anyway, I still love this idea and will be looking for enriching ways to add outdoor education and exploration into her future schooling.
posted by amanda at 6:50 PM on February 23, 2016

Huh. I'm pretty sure my niece does this, amongst her many pre-schools. I didn't realize this is what it was, but I'm sure her mom said she goes to Forest School on Fridays. Montessori on M-T, Japanese pre-school on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Kid's got more on her transcript at age 3 than a lot of college grads.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:52 PM on February 23, 2016

I'm going to be Debbie Downer...

Valid criticism, but all the more reason we need to push back against a system that demands two parents each working 40+ hours per week outside the home.
posted by fraxil at 7:12 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

Yes, like the Pope, but an entire class of kids repeatedly peeing the same bit of forest is not really great for the plant life.

My former compost bins will agree to disagree with you. I still call pee "compost activator" even though I live in a high-rise now.
posted by srboisvert at 9:28 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

soren_lorensen, the vast majority of Danish kids have two working parents so I don't know why you think this would be unworkable. The kids aren't outside all day , it's more like 6 hours in summer and 4 in winter (where it's dark from 3pm to 9am anyway). The rest of the time they spend inside.
posted by brokkr at 11:01 PM on February 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

There's something about being in a forest that's so invigorating, yet peaceful. Great place to nurture young children (including literally, with oxygen from the trees!) And I imagine that as time goes on, more and more people are living in dense cities where their kids have no regular access to nature otherwise.
posted by mantecol at 11:14 PM on February 23, 2016

My friends have their three year old in one of the UK variants. They have indoor structures in order to have somewhere for the kids to go in bad weather but which I assume include toilets. They also have a kitchen for cake making. The wood is all fenced off.
posted by biffa at 12:18 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

In BC there are forest kindergartens that are part of the school system, so not for a fee. Kindergarten in BC it is part day with the longest 9-3, so there is after school care ( for which one pays).
this one, in Sooke is full day public school program, which would mean ending at 3pm, and spends half the day outside.

bonus: Blog link includes a story about a nature guide for kids developed by a local university as well.
posted by chapps at 4:23 AM on February 24, 2016

The big issue for these programs around here is that it's hard to get a spot.
posted by chapps at 4:25 AM on February 24, 2016

part-time, half day or part-week programs are not feasible for households with two full time working parents.

In the UK you get 15 hours free "childcare" (playgroup) from age 3, which is - at least round me - all part-time/day/week. I think many parents (usually women) fit part-time working round these arrangements. For us, we have a child minder - a person (yes, a woman) who looks after the children full-time during the week so we can work. So we've negotiated a reduced fee for those days when alasdair Junior is at playgroup, and the child minder does drop-off/pick-up at the playgroup.
posted by alasdair at 4:57 AM on February 24, 2016

My kids' school (primary) does Forest School, which is great but also slightly frustrating in that what it has evolved into is one 4 week block of 1 half day per week for each class. So the teacher who does it spends every Wednesday of the whole school year outside but the kids only do it for 4 weeks. Also, they do the same every year, though that may be more of an issue in my head than in reality because the seasons change and the kids are a year older so they do get different things from it every time.

Younger and I used to go to a nature play session in a local community garden but the NHS build a hospital on it. It was brilliant - always on no matter the weather, there was a wildish wood bit, an orchard and cultivated bits - harvesting peas was a special favourite with younger girl.

The later was, of course, only possible because I was at home with her. There were a fair few of the parents who came along who worked part time and jiggled hours to allow them to do so but that doesn't work for everyone.

We now do Woodcraft Folk, which is a co-operative youth movement and it involves a fair amount of out doors stuff which I have slowly come to enjoy despite being a bookish adult who likes to be warm. But it depends on free labour from parent volunteers again.
posted by hfnuala at 4:59 AM on February 24, 2016

Perfect timing! I'm trying to decide whether or not to send my son to one of these right now. All children in my country start school at age 3, and the forest school is really attractive as a buffer between him and sitting at a desk doing worksheets, which is what he'd be doing at a regular school. The regular school, however, is free, while the forest school is 300€/month, which is a big sacrifice and will mean some belt-tightening for our family.

I was just to make an Ask about this- I probably will anyway, but I'm glad to have this article to help make my decision.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 5:43 AM on February 24, 2016

In the UK you get 15 hours free "childcare" (playgroup) from age 3

Oh man, is my budget ever looking forward to that! Because childcare costs in the UK are cripplingly expensive!
I just checked and there are a lot more around me than I would have thought! (Given I live in London)

My child may well be headed to Forest School next year.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:52 AM on February 24, 2016

Expat Dane here. I always get horrified looks here in the UK when I say I grew up playing in a ditch, but it's true! I didn't go to a certified Forest Kindergarten but my kindergarten definitely had elements of that. We climbed trees, I 'cooked' using leaves, berries & mud, and I peed behind a bush. Ha!

To me it just makes way more sense to have kids interact with nature and develop their senses & bodies rather than stay indoors playing in very regulated circumstances. One of the joys of my life is taking The Nephews for a long walk where they'll get to jump in puddles, look at insects, hear tales of trolls, and play with sticks.

You can take a girl out of Scandinavia..
posted by kariebookish at 6:18 AM on February 24, 2016 [7 favorites]

There are several of these around western Mass, NH, and VT.
posted by transient at 7:32 AM on February 24, 2016

There's a similar school on Vashon Island where my parents live: Vashon Wilderness School SUPER RAINY in the winter, but the kids seem to love it.
posted by KingBoogly at 9:23 AM on February 24, 2016

Ogre Lawless and brokkr- thanks for the bathroom update! I'm glad to hear they don't completely rely on kids finding a bush. I have no problem with kids peeing in the woods now and again, but a regular classroom sized group in the same patch of land is a lot more waste than a patch of woods is evolved for. OK, maybe it's good for compost, but a backyard compost heap is not the same distribution nor selection of materials as a forest floor. It sounds like the preschools have thought this out, I was just surprised it wasn't covered at all in the Australian article.
posted by maryr at 10:23 AM on February 24, 2016

Valid criticism, but all the more reason we need to push back against a system that demands two parents each working 40+ hours per week outside the home.

And push for one that provides paid parenting leave and free universal childcare to those who do work in such jobs. It's all possible, look at the latest Boston Dynamics FPP. But we'll need to keep fighting for it, and against the evil half-formed homunculi who are working to steal the gains that some of us have already made.
posted by howfar at 11:40 AM on February 24, 2016

I dunno, I don't think I want guys who are mean to robots watching my kids.
posted by maryr at 1:56 PM on February 24, 2016 [2 favorites]