Poor Willard
September 20, 2016 9:11 AM Subscribe
The concept is simple: rat birth control The rat’s primary survival skill, as a species, is its unnerving rate of reproduction. Female rats ovulate every four days, copulate dozens of times a day and remain fertile until they die. (Like humans, they have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation.) This is how you go from two to 15,000 in a single year. When poison or traps thin out a population, they mate faster until their numbers regenerate. Conversely, if you can keep them from mating, colonies collapse in weeks and do not rebound.
keep them from mating? tons of human beings do that. just give them demanding jobs, low pay, expensive living, alienation and it's done.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:20 AM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:20 AM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]
There are no “super rats”. Apart from a specific subtropical breed, they do not get much bigger than 20 inches long, including the tail.NOT COMFORTING.
posted by Etrigan at 9:20 AM on September 20, 2016 [19 favorites]
Yeah, this isn't gonna backfire at all.
posted by Sphinx at 9:21 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sphinx at 9:21 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
copulate dozens of times a day
You make it sound so tawdry. It was college and the rats were on spring break and two dozen is only technically "dozens" anyway.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]
You make it sound so tawdry. It was college and the rats were on spring break and two dozen is only technically "dozens" anyway.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]
We just need to make sure they are only having sex for pleasure, and not for procreation.
posted by allthinky at 9:25 AM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by allthinky at 9:25 AM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I love the joy the author takes in dubunking horrible rat myths and replacing them with just as horrible rat truths.
Rats may be unable to liquefy their bones to slide under doors, but they don’t need to: their skeletons are so flexible that they can squeeze their way through any hole or crack wider than half an inch.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:28 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
Rats may be unable to liquefy their bones to slide under doors, but they don’t need to: their skeletons are so flexible that they can squeeze their way through any hole or crack wider than half an inch.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:28 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
Wherever humans go, rats follow
Solution seems pretty straight forward to me.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:29 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Solution seems pretty straight forward to me.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:29 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, this isn't gonna backfire at all.
The question is, is the backfiring worse than a horde of hungry rats infesting your house? And, is it worse than the currently implemented rat poisons?
posted by JDHarper at 9:33 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
The question is, is the backfiring worse than a horde of hungry rats infesting your house? And, is it worse than the currently implemented rat poisons?
posted by JDHarper at 9:33 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wow, rat birth control is effective. One look at that rat in the red light and the mood is totally killed.
posted by adept256 at 9:42 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:42 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
They are cannibals, and they sometimes laugh (sort of) – especially when tickled. They can appear en masse, as if from nowhere, moving as fast as seven feet per second. They do not carry rabies, but a 2014 study from Columbia University found that the average New York City subway rat carried 18 viruses previously unknown to science, along with dozens of familiar, dangerous pathogens, such as C difficile and hepatitis C.Adorable!
posted by Rangi at 9:45 AM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
I love how they casually drop the "rats very occasionally eat people alive" thing
posted by knownassociate at 9:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by knownassociate at 9:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
Things being what they are, we'll eliminate the rat population only to find out that they were the only things keeping in check something far more horrible, like giant angry weasels or something.
Life, uh, finds a way.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:49 AM on September 20, 2016 [18 favorites]
Life, uh, finds a way.
posted by backseatpilot at 9:49 AM on September 20, 2016 [18 favorites]
Have we tried introducing the Rats to Catholicism?
posted by drezdn at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 9:54 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is totally a Doctor Weird open, right?
"GENTLEMEN!!!! RAT BIRTH CONTROL!!! AHAHAHAHAHA"
posted by selfnoise at 9:58 AM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
"GENTLEMEN!!!! RAT BIRTH CONTROL!!! AHAHAHAHAHA"
posted by selfnoise at 9:58 AM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
So it's a fluffy article that emphasizes the adorable, it's "Happy Lesbian Couple + Small Town Firefighter Investors Invent Environmentally Safe Rat Birth Control" which is a great story!
I want to believe that scientific breakthroughs can be just that happy and sweet and not have horrible fallout, but I'm afraid to.
On the other hand, rats got in my house last year and all I could do was put poison in my attic, cause no one has yet invented a pest-repelling forcefield. So maybe this is better than poison.
**crosses fingers**
posted by emjaybee at 9:59 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I want to believe that scientific breakthroughs can be just that happy and sweet and not have horrible fallout, but I'm afraid to.
On the other hand, rats got in my house last year and all I could do was put poison in my attic, cause no one has yet invented a pest-repelling forcefield. So maybe this is better than poison.
**crosses fingers**
posted by emjaybee at 9:59 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
This puts a crimp in my plan to release subterranean super-cats throughout new york city as a method of rat control.
posted by GuyZero at 10:00 AM on September 20, 2016
posted by GuyZero at 10:00 AM on September 20, 2016
If you're going to let something like "not actually needing a reason" get in the way, you're going to be a terrible supervillain.
"But I don't want to cure cancer. I want to turn people into dinosaurs."
posted by Etrigan at 10:04 AM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]
"But I don't want to cure cancer. I want to turn people into dinosaurs."
posted by Etrigan at 10:04 AM on September 20, 2016 [17 favorites]
Just popping in to say that rats make adorable pets — they're like tiny stupid dogs. Unfortunately they tend to die horrible deaths from respiratory ailments, and they linger, as opposed to gerbils and hamsters which just die.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:09 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:09 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
Collectively, rats are responsible for more human death than any other mammal on earth.
Wait, aren't humans mammals? I bet we are neck and neck with those overachieving rats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:23 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wait, aren't humans mammals? I bet we are neck and neck with those overachieving rats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:23 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh, sorry... I thought this was going to be about Nixon.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:23 AM on September 20, 2016
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:23 AM on September 20, 2016
"Frankly, rodents are the most successful species,” Loretta Mayer told me recently. [...] Mayer is a biologist
A holistic biologist, I presume, not bothered overmuch by details.
posted by hat_eater at 10:27 AM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
A holistic biologist, I presume, not bothered overmuch by details.
posted by hat_eater at 10:27 AM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
What suburb of Boston did they test this in and when will they bring it to Allston and Back Bay?
posted by maryr at 10:30 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 10:30 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
ok so i haven't read it yet but if it's tiny rat condoms are we sure their weird little pink hands can open the packets
posted by poffin boffin at 10:34 AM on September 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:34 AM on September 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
spoiler alert update: it's not tiny rat condoms
posted by poffin boffin at 10:39 AM on September 20, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:39 AM on September 20, 2016 [22 favorites]
No, it's just some tiny rat Crocs.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:40 AM on September 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 10:40 AM on September 20, 2016 [9 favorites]
Just get the rats a lot of dice, things will sort themselves out* from there.
* Citation: none of my gaming friends ever got a rat pregnant.
posted by LegallyBread at 10:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
* Citation: none of my gaming friends ever got a rat pregnant.
posted by LegallyBread at 10:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
I tend to think unintended consequences is the most powerful force in the universe, but have often wondered if we couldn't get rid of a majority of mosquitoes or ticks and be better off. Rats seem more complicated to me, but I can't logically see how they are a necessary part of a ecosystem in cities.
My feelings may be biased because I like rats. They are great pets, the only drawback being they don't live very long at all.
posted by bongo_x at 10:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
My feelings may be biased because I like rats. They are great pets, the only drawback being they don't live very long at all.
posted by bongo_x at 10:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Since I really have nowhere else to share this:
All summer long we'd been smelling something like dog poop outside our front door. Our upstairs neighbors suspected inconsiderate dog walkers were throwing poops into our little front yard. Flies started hanging out by the steps. Then one day my wife was out there doing some weeding and general yard work and called me over to show me the very large, very dead rat that was chilling by the front steps. I say chilling, but I really mean wriggling and pulsating because it was full of maggots. Being the champ she is, though, she held the plastic bag open while I scooped it up with a shovel.
Anyway, that's my rat story for the summer.
posted by backseatpilot at 10:49 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
All summer long we'd been smelling something like dog poop outside our front door. Our upstairs neighbors suspected inconsiderate dog walkers were throwing poops into our little front yard. Flies started hanging out by the steps. Then one day my wife was out there doing some weeding and general yard work and called me over to show me the very large, very dead rat that was chilling by the front steps. I say chilling, but I really mean wriggling and pulsating because it was full of maggots. Being the champ she is, though, she held the plastic bag open while I scooped it up with a shovel.
Anyway, that's my rat story for the summer.
posted by backseatpilot at 10:49 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Have we tried introducing the Rats to Catholicism?
They tried that in Boston. It, uh, didn't go well.
posted by bondcliff at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
They tried that in Boston. It, uh, didn't go well.
posted by bondcliff at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: it's not tiny rat condoms
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:52 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:52 AM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Wherever humans go, rats follow, forming shadow cities under our metropolises and hollows beneath our farmlands. They thrive in our squalor, making homes of our sewers, abandoned alleys, and neglected parks. They poison food, bite babies, undermine buildings, spread disease, decimate crop yields, and very occasionally eat people alive.Do I have questions about this? I don't know if I want to have questions about this.
posted by jeather at 10:58 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Like humans, they have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation.
I don't understand this. Do rats know or care what the difference is? Didn't evolution give them the drive and pleasure to ensure procreation? I'd make the same case for humans except that we're able to purposely avoid procreation so there is a difference.
I was thinking this was better than poison because you don't have nearly as many dead rats everywhere, but then I got to this:
In the US alone, more than 12,000 children per year, most of whom live below the poverty line, are accidentally poisoned by pesticide meant for rats.
That's not ok and reason enough to try something else.
According to Bobby Corrigan, the world’s leading expert on rodent control
Hey Billy, it's your cousin. Your cousin Bobby Corrigan. You know that new sound you're looking for? Well listen to THIS. I know they're not spelled the same. Despite all my rage, I don't care.
Corrigan is a thinnish, pale man, bald except for a low, wispy crown framing his ears. He spends his nights on the streets or in basement corners Yup. Checks out.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:59 AM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't understand this. Do rats know or care what the difference is? Didn't evolution give them the drive and pleasure to ensure procreation? I'd make the same case for humans except that we're able to purposely avoid procreation so there is a difference.
I was thinking this was better than poison because you don't have nearly as many dead rats everywhere, but then I got to this:
In the US alone, more than 12,000 children per year, most of whom live below the poverty line, are accidentally poisoned by pesticide meant for rats.
That's not ok and reason enough to try something else.
According to Bobby Corrigan, the world’s leading expert on rodent control
Hey Billy, it's your cousin. Your cousin Bobby Corrigan. You know that new sound you're looking for? Well listen to THIS. I know they're not spelled the same. Despite all my rage, I don't care.
Corrigan is a thinnish, pale man, bald except for a low, wispy crown framing his ears. He spends his nights on the streets or in basement corners Yup. Checks out.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:59 AM on September 20, 2016 [7 favorites]
Wherever humans go, rats follow
Is that a principle we can utilise, somehow? You! Chappie with the flute! See what you can do with that idea.
posted by Grangousier at 11:11 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is that a principle we can utilise, somehow? You! Chappie with the flute! See what you can do with that idea.
posted by Grangousier at 11:11 AM on September 20, 2016 [5 favorites]
This, like so many other things, seems like a temporary measure. You can wipe rats out of an entire neighborhood, but they're still breeding and thriving elsewhere. As soon as you stop putting out the pink stuff, the ones that colonize your neighborhood get breeding again.
Hygiene really is the best solution, but starving them out is a community effort, and there's always someone who's going to be lax about keeping their dumpster's lid closed.
posted by explosion at 11:12 AM on September 20, 2016
Hygiene really is the best solution, but starving them out is a community effort, and there's always someone who's going to be lax about keeping their dumpster's lid closed.
posted by explosion at 11:12 AM on September 20, 2016
The mention of use on various islands to remove the rat population reminds me of an effort more local, in the Narragansett Bay, to chemically sterilize the deer on a couple of small islands. Probably much the same process: make something that attacks reproduction, disguise it as something the critter will want to eat, and wait for them to die off. IIRC, the bay island project worked out pretty well, I hope this does too.
I do wonder if some mad-scientist type is now working on a human variant of this idea. While abhorrent, it strikes me as attractive to a certain mentality that considers humans to be vastly overpopulated, and since it's a one-dose-lasts-a-lifetime, there's some capability there for true horror.
posted by Blackanvil at 11:18 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I do wonder if some mad-scientist type is now working on a human variant of this idea. While abhorrent, it strikes me as attractive to a certain mentality that considers humans to be vastly overpopulated, and since it's a one-dose-lasts-a-lifetime, there's some capability there for true horror.
posted by Blackanvil at 11:18 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hey Billy, it's your cousin. Your cousin Bobby Corrigan.
Accidental poisoning explains Billy's desire to purchase a second-tier wrestling promotion.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Accidental poisoning explains Billy's desire to purchase a second-tier wrestling promotion.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not gonna RTFA because I don't care for nightmares, but if there is rat contraception that you can buy on the internet please someone link it and I will walk the streets distributing little rat goalies like Johnny Ratfucker
posted by schadenfrau at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:34 AM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
A holistic biologist, I presume, not bothered overmuch by details.
Rodents as a whole, and Rattus norvegicus specifically, are the most successful and pervasive mammals after humans, so he's in the ballpark.
What suburb of Boston did they test this in and when will they bring it to Allston and Back Bay?
I remember with fondness the big "RATTLAND" graffiti piece on Linden's Superette on Brighton Ave. I once saw two rats screwing in a Dunkin Donuts dozen box crammed between trash cans behind my godawful apartment on Packard's Corner - they really were everywhere.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Rodents as a whole, and Rattus norvegicus specifically, are the most successful and pervasive mammals after humans, so he's in the ballpark.
What suburb of Boston did they test this in and when will they bring it to Allston and Back Bay?
I remember with fondness the big "RATTLAND" graffiti piece on Linden's Superette on Brighton Ave. I once saw two rats screwing in a Dunkin Donuts dozen box crammed between trash cans behind my godawful apartment on Packard's Corner - they really were everywhere.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:46 AM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
they're like tiny stupid stinky constantly-shitting dogs
As someone who has had rat-in-residence issues in the past: FUCK RATS. FUCK THOSE STINKY DISGUSTING FUCKING VERMIN FUCKS.
posted by aspo at 11:56 AM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
As someone who has had rat-in-residence issues in the past: FUCK RATS. FUCK THOSE STINKY DISGUSTING FUCKING VERMIN FUCKS.
posted by aspo at 11:56 AM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
If we kill the rats off who will eat all the leftover spaghetti?
posted by srboisvert at 12:01 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 12:01 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Aha, sounds like it's time to recommend Three Skeleton Key, the classic radio thriller about a massive horde of man-eating rats who invade a tiny island where three men are operating a lighthouse. The rats are introduced as "a dark brown carpet that looked like a gigantic fungus", and it only gets worse. Some rather distressing audio effects, not least of which is the mournful voice of Vincent Price.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 12:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 12:17 PM on September 20, 2016 [8 favorites]
> Things being what they are, we'll eliminate the rat population only to find out that they were the only things keeping in check something far more horrible, like giant angry weasels or something.
Yeah, what other things eat the things the rats are eating, and how down are we with having a whole lot more of them? On the other hand, maybe the other things are mostly bugs that can't get into places the rats do.
posted by lucidium at 12:20 PM on September 20, 2016
Yeah, what other things eat the things the rats are eating, and how down are we with having a whole lot more of them? On the other hand, maybe the other things are mostly bugs that can't get into places the rats do.
posted by lucidium at 12:20 PM on September 20, 2016
Proper research in NYC says ants compete with rats for food.
posted by clew at 12:31 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 12:31 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sincerely hoping that these nice scientists are working on a dosage that works on cockroaches too. Because less rats = more food for roaches.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by caution live frogs at 12:39 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Don't know about cockroaches. It sounds like this is designed to sabotage mammalian reproductive systems.
As someone who comes from a rat-free province, the idea of rodent elimination from large areas sounds pretty doable. Could Manhattan, say, totally eliminate its rat population if it kept feeding the little suckers ContraPest for year after year? Sterilize the last generation and they're gone. Or would they develop resistance?
It also sounds like their compound could be used for other mammal species like the stray dogs on that Navajo reservation. Used properly it could eliminate a lot of suffering that's caused by human neglect. And it wouldn't kill anything.
posted by Kevin Street at 12:47 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
As someone who comes from a rat-free province, the idea of rodent elimination from large areas sounds pretty doable. Could Manhattan, say, totally eliminate its rat population if it kept feeding the little suckers ContraPest for year after year? Sterilize the last generation and they're gone. Or would they develop resistance?
It also sounds like their compound could be used for other mammal species like the stray dogs on that Navajo reservation. Used properly it could eliminate a lot of suffering that's caused by human neglect. And it wouldn't kill anything.
posted by Kevin Street at 12:47 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Like humans, they have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation.
I don't understand this. Do rats know or care what the difference is?
Considering that our 6 buck rats have had to be split into groups of 2/4 across different cages as a result of young Private McAuslan's relentless bonking of the elderly Sergeant Hathaway, I'm willing to believe they know the difference perfectly well. (I know it's a dominance behaviour, but that little ratty grin on McAuslan's little ratty face was far too self-satisfied to ascribe all his motivation to pecking-order squabbling, frankly.)
Hathers is sadly not long for this world, so we're holding off on remingling the colony until he's passed on to the great big fleecy hammock in the sky.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 12:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]
I don't understand this. Do rats know or care what the difference is?
Considering that our 6 buck rats have had to be split into groups of 2/4 across different cages as a result of young Private McAuslan's relentless bonking of the elderly Sergeant Hathaway, I'm willing to believe they know the difference perfectly well. (I know it's a dominance behaviour, but that little ratty grin on McAuslan's little ratty face was far too self-satisfied to ascribe all his motivation to pecking-order squabbling, frankly.)
Hathers is sadly not long for this world, so we're holding off on remingling the colony until he's passed on to the great big fleecy hammock in the sky.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 12:52 PM on September 20, 2016 [13 favorites]
You have a collection of gay, military rats?
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen.
posted by Grangousier at 1:09 PM on September 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen.
posted by Grangousier at 1:09 PM on September 20, 2016 [14 favorites]
Must be buying tiny rat condoms by the gross.
The continued use of these numbers in measurement and counting represents a continuation of the tradition of the duodecimal number system in everyday life[5] and has encouraged groups such as the Duodecimal Society of America to advocate for a wider use of such a numbering system in place of decimal.[6][7] wiki
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:11 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
The continued use of these numbers in measurement and counting represents a continuation of the tradition of the duodecimal number system in everyday life[5] and has encouraged groups such as the Duodecimal Society of America to advocate for a wider use of such a numbering system in place of decimal.[6][7] wiki
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:11 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
rat contraception that you can buy on the internet
"Mouseopause" appears to be 4-vinyl-1-cyclohexene [sigma-aldrich] and it kills oocytes within immature follicles in the ovaries of mice and rats and is considered a potential occupational health hazard".
The "blood thinner" rat poison mentioned in the article is warfarin, an anticoagulant that represses the vitamin K reductase reaction. Of course, there are naturally occurring mutant rodents who are now resistant to it.
Based on the 2nd link here, 4-vinylcyclohexene requires Bax, caspase-2, and caspase-3 to kill those immature follicles.
So, of course, there will inevitably be naturally occurring mutant rodents who will become resistant to it.
posted by porpoise at 1:29 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Mouseopause" appears to be 4-vinyl-1-cyclohexene [sigma-aldrich] and it kills oocytes within immature follicles in the ovaries of mice and rats and is considered a potential occupational health hazard".
The "blood thinner" rat poison mentioned in the article is warfarin, an anticoagulant that represses the vitamin K reductase reaction. Of course, there are naturally occurring mutant rodents who are now resistant to it.
Based on the 2nd link here, 4-vinylcyclohexene requires Bax, caspase-2, and caspase-3 to kill those immature follicles.
So, of course, there will inevitably be naturally occurring mutant rodents who will become resistant to it.
posted by porpoise at 1:29 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think we have finally found the plot device leading up to Children of Men. Were there any rats shown in that movie?
Personally, I've always felt like we don't have enough endocrine disruptors in our water table. "Metabolically inactive in ten minutes" / "breaks down naturally in the environment" ...my ass.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 1:38 PM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
Personally, I've always felt like we don't have enough endocrine disruptors in our water table. "Metabolically inactive in ten minutes" / "breaks down naturally in the environment" ...my ass.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 1:38 PM on September 20, 2016 [12 favorites]
So, of course, there will inevitably be naturally occurring mutant rodents who will become resistant to it.
I rather expect the formula to select for rats that aren't as attracted to sweets and fat. New breed for a new century!
posted by hat_eater at 1:45 PM on September 20, 2016
I rather expect the formula to select for rats that aren't as attracted to sweets and fat. New breed for a new century!
posted by hat_eater at 1:45 PM on September 20, 2016
Like humans, they have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation.
What they mean by that, is that rats will have sex when they female's not in heat. Granted, I seem to recall that they go into heat every 5 days (cite saying every 4-5 days), so the female cycle is not a giant limiting factor in the overbreeding of rats. But some species don't / rarely breed when the female's not in heat. For people who have had both male and female pet rats; yes, they can and will mate between cage bars.
Rats can be semi-trained to use a literbox, so they might not poop everywhere, but they are pretty much always leaving little drops of pee as they walk/run along to mark their trails. I owned rats as pets, and the urine gave me breathing issues, and I'd get hives from the urine/skin contact as they crawled around and over you. Definitely not the most hygenic pets, even if rats themselves smell super awesome because they seem to groom themselves more often than cats.
posted by nobeagle at 1:54 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
What they mean by that, is that rats will have sex when they female's not in heat. Granted, I seem to recall that they go into heat every 5 days (cite saying every 4-5 days), so the female cycle is not a giant limiting factor in the overbreeding of rats. But some species don't / rarely breed when the female's not in heat. For people who have had both male and female pet rats; yes, they can and will mate between cage bars.
Rats can be semi-trained to use a literbox, so they might not poop everywhere, but they are pretty much always leaving little drops of pee as they walk/run along to mark their trails. I owned rats as pets, and the urine gave me breathing issues, and I'd get hives from the urine/skin contact as they crawled around and over you. Definitely not the most hygenic pets, even if rats themselves smell super awesome because they seem to groom themselves more often than cats.
posted by nobeagle at 1:54 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
The question is, is the backfiring worse than a horde of hungry rats infesting your house? And, is it worse than the currently implemented rat poisons?
Yeah, you want to talk about backfiring, rodent poisons decimating raptor species definitely counts in my book.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, you want to talk about backfiring, rodent poisons decimating raptor species definitely counts in my book.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I owned rats as pets, and the urine gave me breathing issues, and I'd get hives from the urine/skin contact as they crawled around and over you.
Do they urinate pure ammonia? Yikes.
posted by GuyZero at 2:03 PM on September 20, 2016
Do they urinate pure ammonia? Yikes.
posted by GuyZero at 2:03 PM on September 20, 2016
Who knew Templeton was such a stud? I may be assuming too much, but it's my guess that they're not trying to wipe rats off the face of the Earth, just out of places where they're a big problem.
I've worked with groups who did TNR with feral cats, and it was highly effective. And anything that reduces the amount of rat poison we leave lying around is a good thing.
Mayer and Dyer are a hoot and a half, aren't they?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:12 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've worked with groups who did TNR with feral cats, and it was highly effective. And anything that reduces the amount of rat poison we leave lying around is a good thing.
Mayer and Dyer are a hoot and a half, aren't they?
After a series of tests, they quickly settled on a liquid, rather than solid, formulation… “We compared the [two] and they peed on the solid and drank the liquid,” Dyer told me. “Rats are pretty straightforward.”
The results were better, but still not good enough. “They just had smaller litters, goddammit,” she said.
“I never met a rat I couldn’t sterilise.”
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:12 PM on September 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
You have a collection of gay, military rats?
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen.
Army (Private McAuslan), navy (Preserved Killick), police (Inspector Lewis & Sergeant Hathaway, Inspector Javert), and reformed criminal (Jean Valjean).
I will be making my pitch to Aardman Animations forthwith.
------------------------------
Rats...very occasionally eat people alive.
"...and do they call me 'Ratty the Heroic Minesweeper'? No! Do they call me 'Ratty the Champion Tuberculosis-Detector'? No! But you have the slightest nibble of one twitching human, and..."
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 2:15 PM on September 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen.
Army (Private McAuslan), navy (Preserved Killick), police (Inspector Lewis & Sergeant Hathaway, Inspector Javert), and reformed criminal (Jean Valjean).
I will be making my pitch to Aardman Animations forthwith.
Rats...very occasionally eat people alive.
"...and do they call me 'Ratty the Heroic Minesweeper'? No! Do they call me 'Ratty the Champion Tuberculosis-Detector'? No! But you have the slightest nibble of one twitching human, and..."
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 2:15 PM on September 20, 2016 [15 favorites]
You have a collection of gay, military rats?
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen
As the other half of the queer military rat collective owner (two of them are mugging me for Rice Krispies as I type) I will get this movie made. That is my solemn vow to you, Mefites.
And yes, they definitely do do things just for shits and giggles. They have some kind of rudimentary ratty sense of humour. I mean, they're not John Oliver, but they definitely do things for no reason other than that they're fun. McAuslan steals Chapsticks out of my pockets. He doesn't want the Chapstick, he has no interest in eating it or anything, but he knows if he runs away with it Mommy will chase him, and that's just hilarious. Same with erasers. Same with hiding in the clothes airer and jumping onto Mommy's head like a fat furry ninja. They're trolls.
posted by BlueNorther at 2:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
That's an R-rated animated movie waiting to happen
As the other half of the queer military rat collective owner (two of them are mugging me for Rice Krispies as I type) I will get this movie made. That is my solemn vow to you, Mefites.
And yes, they definitely do do things just for shits and giggles. They have some kind of rudimentary ratty sense of humour. I mean, they're not John Oliver, but they definitely do things for no reason other than that they're fun. McAuslan steals Chapsticks out of my pockets. He doesn't want the Chapstick, he has no interest in eating it or anything, but he knows if he runs away with it Mommy will chase him, and that's just hilarious. Same with erasers. Same with hiding in the clothes airer and jumping onto Mommy's head like a fat furry ninja. They're trolls.
posted by BlueNorther at 2:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Metabolically inactive in ten minutes" / "breaks down naturally in the environment" ...my ass.
Currently it remains uncertain whether ContraPest is stable in your ass.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Currently it remains uncertain whether ContraPest is stable in your ass.
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh my god I would pay hundreds of dollars for the mouse version of this mentioned in the article, when is THAT coming to market??
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2016
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2016
It may just be the tone of the article, but this story about SenesTech gives me the same feeling that stories about Theranos did: that there's a scam going on here. Yes, maybe a biologist can come up with a magical contraceptive that safely works in dogs, mice, and rats ... but you'd think it would be better known.
There are no Wikipedia pages for Loretta Mayer, SenesTech, Mouseopause, or ContraPest. There is a page for Soroptimist, but (apart from this article) the only references to Soroptimist in conjunction with Loretta Mayer speak about her as director of the Oakdale CA branch, not a role as international vice president. Not that this would prove anything, but it speaks to a general lack of support for the assertions in the article.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are no Wikipedia pages for Loretta Mayer, SenesTech, Mouseopause, or ContraPest. There is a page for Soroptimist, but (apart from this article) the only references to Soroptimist in conjunction with Loretta Mayer speak about her as director of the Oakdale CA branch, not a role as international vice president. Not that this would prove anything, but it speaks to a general lack of support for the assertions in the article.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:04 PM on September 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Joe in Australia: "There is a page for Soroptimist, "
This organization at least definitely exists; locally the make pudding every xmas.
posted by Mitheral at 4:36 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
This organization at least definitely exists; locally the make pudding every xmas.
posted by Mitheral at 4:36 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
SenesTech only got their registration number for CONTRAPEST six weeks ago. Registered copy of the label.
It is slightly suspicious that none of the people involved in the testing (the MTA officials, the biologists in Australia (from an unnamed organization), the vet clinic in NM servicing the reservation) are named. You'd think the people who run the latter at a minimum would want to get their business name in the press.
Anyways if this is a scam it should be easily exposed:
It is slightly suspicious that none of the people involved in the testing (the MTA officials, the biologists in Australia (from an unnamed organization), the vet clinic in NM servicing the reservation) are named. You'd think the people who run the latter at a minimum would want to get their business name in the press.
Anyways if this is a scam it should be easily exposed:
- Get product
- Give to a dozen rats
- See if the females get pregnant
The company web site has articles linked from the NY Times, LA Times and Chicago Magazine. The NY Times article (from 2013) does name people involved at the MTA.
posted by Mitheral at 4:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 4:58 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hmm. The dates don't add up.
In the NYT article from 2013, she says that she has been "studying this compound for over 22 years"; i.e., she started studying it 1991 or earlier. But Senestech's web page says she got her PhD in 2000, and the Guardian article says that she started studying the compound three years after she became a professor of biology at Northern Arizona University. That would be a start in 2003 or later.
Yeah, sloppy reporting, but it's a pretty big discrepancy.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:25 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
In the NYT article from 2013, she says that she has been "studying this compound for over 22 years"; i.e., she started studying it 1991 or earlier. But Senestech's web page says she got her PhD in 2000, and the Guardian article says that she started studying the compound three years after she became a professor of biology at Northern Arizona University. That would be a start in 2003 or later.
Yeah, sloppy reporting, but it's a pretty big discrepancy.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:25 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
They do have a single publication listed on pubmed. I'd want to see the results of feeding sterilized rats to a cat, a predatory bird, and a dog before spreading this stuff around by the gallon. Primate bioaccumulation studies would also be warranted.
posted by benzenedream at 7:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 7:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, this is about the worst Guardian article I've ever read.
posted by 7segment at 6:30 AM on September 21, 2016
posted by 7segment at 6:30 AM on September 21, 2016
keep them from mating? tons of human beings do that. just give them demanding jobs, low pay, expensive living, alienation and it's done.
Or teach them to play World of Warcraft.
posted by Beholder at 6:47 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Or teach them to play World of Warcraft.
posted by Beholder at 6:47 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Same with hiding in the clothes airer and jumping onto Mommy's head like a fat furry ninja.
I'd forgotten about that! Granted, only one of my rats would jump onto me from the closet, but she did is so rarely that it was beyond startling. A few of the others liked jumping from a tall surface to my arm if I was holding it out from them, but only the one would give me the surprise "death from above!"
Guy Zero: I think that I have a specific allergy to rat urine. Guinea pigs didn't affect me in the same way, and my wife who has a nose much more sensitive than mine could never smell the rat pee to the same degree I could. Also, most people don't get hives from having rats crawl on them.
posted by nobeagle at 6:55 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd forgotten about that! Granted, only one of my rats would jump onto me from the closet, but she did is so rarely that it was beyond startling. A few of the others liked jumping from a tall surface to my arm if I was holding it out from them, but only the one would give me the surprise "death from above!"
Guy Zero: I think that I have a specific allergy to rat urine. Guinea pigs didn't affect me in the same way, and my wife who has a nose much more sensitive than mine could never smell the rat pee to the same degree I could. Also, most people don't get hives from having rats crawl on them.
posted by nobeagle at 6:55 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I owned rats as pets, and the urine gave me breathing issues, and I'd get hives from the urine/skin contact as they crawled around and over you.
Do they urinate pure ammonia? Yikes.
I was a psych student who took animal learning back when you did rat lab and fell in love with the little critters. I had about seven of them over the years.
It is not widely known among the lay peeps but researchers who work with rats typically end up developing rat allergies and become dependent on their research assistants (who typically don't stay in the job past grad school).
Also as a treat rats eat their own poop the first time it goes through their system - they have sticky little poops and you never get to see them do it because they are very shy about it. By the time you see the little dryish pellet poops that is the conclusion of trip number two for the number two.
I developed the rat allergy and yes it manifests as a hive like rash.
So now I have a cat. Which I am also allergic too!
[the nastiest environment I was ever in was the vet collage's barn where they had breeding pigs. You walk in and your breath just wooshes out as you hit a wall of ammonia odour. I have had minor asthma attacks and this was much worse. It was more like drowning.]
posted by srboisvert at 9:17 AM on September 21, 2016
Do they urinate pure ammonia? Yikes.
I was a psych student who took animal learning back when you did rat lab and fell in love with the little critters. I had about seven of them over the years.
It is not widely known among the lay peeps but researchers who work with rats typically end up developing rat allergies and become dependent on their research assistants (who typically don't stay in the job past grad school).
Also as a treat rats eat their own poop the first time it goes through their system - they have sticky little poops and you never get to see them do it because they are very shy about it. By the time you see the little dryish pellet poops that is the conclusion of trip number two for the number two.
I developed the rat allergy and yes it manifests as a hive like rash.
So now I have a cat. Which I am also allergic too!
[the nastiest environment I was ever in was the vet collage's barn where they had breeding pigs. You walk in and your breath just wooshes out as you hit a wall of ammonia odour. I have had minor asthma attacks and this was much worse. It was more like drowning.]
posted by srboisvert at 9:17 AM on September 21, 2016
Remind me to tell you the story about how a rat ran into my cousin's wedding reception at Tavern on the Green and caused everyone from little old lady to grown ass man to lose their minds.
Oh, wait. I left out the part about the partially birthed rat pup hanging out of its nether regions.
Yeah, New York.
This is why I left.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:17 PM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh, wait. I left out the part about the partially birthed rat pup hanging out of its nether regions.
Yeah, New York.
This is why I left.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:17 PM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
They do have a single publication listed on pubmed. I'd want to see the results of feeding sterilized rats to a cat, a predatory bird, and a dog before spreading this stuff around by the gallon. Primate bioaccumulation studies would also be warranted.
This is one of the first things that struck me - though it claims, also, that the chemical breaks down in ten minutes and so shouldn't be active in corpses. But still, I've read a couple books where sterilization of the species is a side effect of some great break-through science. Zombies too, sometimes.
All that said, I have no love of rats and having seen plenty plenty plenty of them, I think this is a great idea.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:09 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is one of the first things that struck me - though it claims, also, that the chemical breaks down in ten minutes and so shouldn't be active in corpses. But still, I've read a couple books where sterilization of the species is a side effect of some great break-through science. Zombies too, sometimes.
All that said, I have no love of rats and having seen plenty plenty plenty of them, I think this is a great idea.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:09 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
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