Fear and Loathing in Birmingham
October 7, 2016 7:11 AM Subscribe
"Disgusting Xenophobic Repellent". These are the three words on the front page of the Scottish paper, "The National" as the Conservative Part Conference wraps up in Birmingham.
The Conservative Party Conference has erupted into an orgy of xenophobia and nationalism with many top conservative party members engaging.
Highlights of the conference:
Theresa May: "Never again let left wing activist human rights lawyers harass the bravest of the brave, the men and women of our armed forces"
Theresa May: “Yes. There will be staff here from overseas in that interim period until the further number of British doctors are able to be trained and come on board in terms of being able to work in our hospitals.”
Amber Rudd: Amber Rudd vows to stop migrants 'taking jobs British people could do' and force companies to reveal number of foreigners they employ
Amber Rudd: Amber Rudd’s Conservative Party Conference speech has been likened to passages from Adolf Hitler’s book Mein Kampf.
Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations
N.B. February 2016, "Liam Fox and Michael Gove, who backed the exit campaign, have also vowed to allow EU citizens to remain in the UK if they become PM."
Gavin Barwell: Build homes with smaller rooms so young people can afford them, Tory housing minister says
N.B. British homes are already the smallest in Europe
The Conservative Party Conference has erupted into an orgy of xenophobia and nationalism with many top conservative party members engaging.
Highlights of the conference:
Theresa May: "Never again let left wing activist human rights lawyers harass the bravest of the brave, the men and women of our armed forces"
Theresa May: “Yes. There will be staff here from overseas in that interim period until the further number of British doctors are able to be trained and come on board in terms of being able to work in our hospitals.”
Amber Rudd: Amber Rudd vows to stop migrants 'taking jobs British people could do' and force companies to reveal number of foreigners they employ
Amber Rudd: Amber Rudd’s Conservative Party Conference speech has been likened to passages from Adolf Hitler’s book Mein Kampf.
Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations
N.B. February 2016, "Liam Fox and Michael Gove, who backed the exit campaign, have also vowed to allow EU citizens to remain in the UK if they become PM."
Gavin Barwell: Build homes with smaller rooms so young people can afford them, Tory housing minister says
N.B. British homes are already the smallest in Europe
Yesterday's highlight (cough) was May's criticism of elites who identify more with the elites of other countries than with the people who live down the street, which led to her claim that "if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere". As an immigrant to the UK, I wonder if that makes me a dual citizen of nowhere.
posted by rory at 7:17 AM on October 7, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by rory at 7:17 AM on October 7, 2016 [22 favorites]
Truly able to access the deep lore that is the British identity. Truly Deep-Lore-Able.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
Amber Rudd vows to stop migrants 'taking jobs British people could do'
Yep, that's me!
and force companies to reveal number of foreigners they employ
But wait, I've been a British citizen for ten years now. Is it only Essence of Foreign that she's after, or Hint of Foreign?
posted by rory at 7:20 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yep, that's me!
and force companies to reveal number of foreigners they employ
But wait, I've been a British citizen for ten years now. Is it only Essence of Foreign that she's after, or Hint of Foreign?
posted by rory at 7:20 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
My wife and I are going to Scotland and the North next week, and recently that's how I've been describing it to people. Saying we're visiting England, Britain or the UK is too much like saying "oh we're visiting the Reich" to me now.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 7:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
"Disgusting Xenophobic Repellent"
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
posted by chavenet at 7:24 AM on October 7, 2016 [33 favorites]
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
posted by chavenet at 7:24 AM on October 7, 2016 [33 favorites]
Government bars foreign academics from advising on Brexit
posted by Grangousier at 7:25 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 7:25 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
The regional independence parties - often portrayed as rabid nationalists by the mainstream UK press - are banding together with the Greens to condemn the 'toxic rhetoric' of the Tories.
And the small problem of excising 40 years of EU membership from the law? Why, have a Great Repeal Bill, of course, that... enshrines EU law as UK law. There's no other remotely practicable solution, of course, but this falls foul of the small matter of Scotland not wanting to play the game.
But at least British Jobs for British People, right? Errr....
posted by Devonian at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
And the small problem of excising 40 years of EU membership from the law? Why, have a Great Repeal Bill, of course, that... enshrines EU law as UK law. There's no other remotely practicable solution, of course, but this falls foul of the small matter of Scotland not wanting to play the game.
But at least British Jobs for British People, right? Errr....
posted by Devonian at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Disgusting Xenophobic Repellent"
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
I'd buy one.
posted by antiwiggle at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
I'd buy one.
posted by antiwiggle at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Giles Fraser tweeted that he liked her speech. Facepalms everywhere.
posted by bookbook at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by bookbook at 7:26 AM on October 7, 2016
Re: Build homes with smaller rooms. As an architect my reply is: F U.
It does not solve the housing crisis, as in the uk houses are sold by n of rooms, not square meters. (oversimplification, but you get the gist).
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 7:27 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
It does not solve the housing crisis, as in the uk houses are sold by n of rooms, not square meters. (oversimplification, but you get the gist).
posted by thegirlwiththehat at 7:27 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Public backs plans to make firms release foreign worker numbers. Can you feel the love tonight?
In this topsy-turvy world, [Tory] Remainers have become the illiberal Brexit enforcers, whether Leavers like it or not.
"The currency is now the de facto official opposition to the government’s policies."
posted by rory at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
In this topsy-turvy world, [Tory] Remainers have become the illiberal Brexit enforcers, whether Leavers like it or not.
"The currency is now the de facto official opposition to the government’s policies."
posted by rory at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Saying we're visiting England, Britain or the UK is too much like saying "oh we're visiting the Reich" to me now
Yeah, I feel that way about the United States.
posted by Grangousier at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I feel that way about the United States.
posted by Grangousier at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
Don't worry. Scarfolk Council (previously) is still one step ahead of the Tories, with these handy Foreigner Identification Badges.
(This is the only thing this UK resident/tax payer/filthy job stealer can currently post without starting to throw things and/or cry.)
posted by harujion at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
(This is the only thing this UK resident/tax payer/filthy job stealer can currently post without starting to throw things and/or cry.)
posted by harujion at 7:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
Giles Fraser long ago ascended to the Planet Giles Fraser, from whence such utterances float down, as mystic revelations and inscrutable koans. It's not helpful to try and interpret them literally.
posted by Devonian at 7:30 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Devonian at 7:30 AM on October 7, 2016
I guess these people are determined to turn England into the Kansas of Europe.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The government is now apparently requiring parents and employees (note bonus "right to work" language) to provide evidence of birthplace and nationality. This has never ended well.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:37 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 7:37 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Tories are now being completely open about the fact they are willing to harm the economy to curb immigration. Theresa May is openly against human rights law and has been for many years.
Councils are going to be allowed to opt out of child protection law. Child protection departments can become privatised.
Mountains of legislation will need to be rewritten but that's apparently no big deal.
Cuadrilla can ignore the decisions of local councils at will and frack wherever the fuck they want.
The NHS is one bad winter away from complete collapse.
Its all going very, very well.
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
Councils are going to be allowed to opt out of child protection law. Child protection departments can become privatised.
Mountains of legislation will need to be rewritten but that's apparently no big deal.
Cuadrilla can ignore the decisions of local councils at will and frack wherever the fuck they want.
The NHS is one bad winter away from complete collapse.
Its all going very, very well.
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've started wearing this shirt around lately because I think it is important to stand with my more easily identifiable immigrant compatriots. It's a little uncomfortable even in Chicago. I get a lot of side-eye, some brow furrowing, the occasional half smile and once a young primary school girl yelled that she liked my shirt.
(if you order be aware that the shirts are a bit on the small side so you need to go up a size - at least for men. I'm borderline Meduim - Large but the Large is pretty fitted on me.)
posted by srboisvert at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
(if you order be aware that the shirts are a bit on the small side so you need to go up a size - at least for men. I'm borderline Meduim - Large but the Large is pretty fitted on me.)
posted by srboisvert at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
So. To review, the tories started with the disabled and now they're after foreigners. What's next? They're gonna start blaming jews?
posted by Talez at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Talez at 7:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Even better zombieflanders - if you refuse to answer they will just make one up for you .
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:40 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by threetwentytwo at 7:40 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
David Shariatmadari: I'm being stripped of my citizenship-- like 65 million others
The EU citizen was created in 1993. It is a person who, across the union, cannot be discriminated against on the basis of nationality; can move and reside freely; can vote for and stand as a candidate in European parliament and municipal elections; and is entitled to consular protection outside the EU by European diplomats.posted by Pallas Athena at 7:41 AM on October 7, 2016 [25 favorites]
More than that, citizenship established an identity, separate from nationality, shared between individuals in the union. A common bond of the kind that Theresa May otherwise admires. In the 23 years since, cultural, political, academic and social exchange has become the norm. What might have initially seemed like a paper exercise has become durable and meaningful to millions. Eurosceptics hate it, no doubt. That doesn’t mean it isn’t real.
What's next? They're gonna start blaming jews?
Well, given that ‘rootless cosmopolitan’ is a standard anti-semitic trope, the “if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere” quote already struck me as moving in that direction.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 7:44 AM on October 7, 2016 [35 favorites]
Well, given that ‘rootless cosmopolitan’ is a standard anti-semitic trope, the “if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere” quote already struck me as moving in that direction.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 7:44 AM on October 7, 2016 [35 favorites]
Looks like the UK and Japan are going to team up to rollback decades of progress. We'll see if President Trump joins the triumvirate in November.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:50 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by blue_beetle at 7:50 AM on October 7, 2016
“if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere”
As an immigrant third-culture-kid having made the UK my home: fuck you Theresa May, fuck your party, fuck your party leadership's spineless infighting referendum bullshit, and shove your twisted little england 'patriotic' so-called Britishness up yer fucking arse.
posted by Dysk at 7:50 AM on October 7, 2016 [42 favorites]
As an immigrant third-culture-kid having made the UK my home: fuck you Theresa May, fuck your party, fuck your party leadership's spineless infighting referendum bullshit, and shove your twisted little england 'patriotic' so-called Britishness up yer fucking arse.
posted by Dysk at 7:50 AM on October 7, 2016 [42 favorites]
Theresa May bragged about Britain being world’s 5th-largest economy. After her speech, it dropped to 6th.
Meanwhile at the conference, Boris De Pfeffel Johnson called Africa a "country" and London a "Jiving Funkapolitan Melting Pot". (For those not following U.K. politics, Johnson is the current British Foreign Secretary and former Mayor of London, not a zany guest on the Channel 4 panel game "Was It Something I Said?".)
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [16 favorites]
Meanwhile at the conference, Boris De Pfeffel Johnson called Africa a "country" and London a "Jiving Funkapolitan Melting Pot". (For those not following U.K. politics, Johnson is the current British Foreign Secretary and former Mayor of London, not a zany guest on the Channel 4 panel game "Was It Something I Said?".)
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [16 favorites]
Its all going very, very well.
Owen Jones's conference report Conservative party conference: a country that works for everyone? is useful here. See 2:28 for some first-rate Tory self-delusion.
posted by rory at 7:57 AM on October 7, 2016
Owen Jones's conference report Conservative party conference: a country that works for everyone? is useful here. See 2:28 for some first-rate Tory self-delusion.
posted by rory at 7:57 AM on October 7, 2016
Fascism is back in style. Now I'm mostly hoping the Europe situation blows up in the next 10-12 years, before my son gets old enough to be affected by the inevitable carry-on wars.
posted by pan at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pan at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
More than that, [EU] citizenship established an identity, separate from nationality, shared between individuals in the union.
That didn't happen.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016
That didn't happen.
posted by Coda Tronca at 7:59 AM on October 7, 2016
Marina Hyde:
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
So who goes to Tory conference? There are the party big beasts, of which there are ever fewer, and a cavalcade of junior ministers who would be less anonymous if they were in a witness protection programme, and who loiter around the Sky News mobile studio making pretend mobile phone calls in the hope a producer will recognise them and give them three minutes’ seatwarming before Michael Fabricant comes along. There are also lots of local councillors who clap all references to themselves, paying members who must know the parliamentary party would rather staple its eyelids to the floor than risk them voting in a leadership election, and approximately 2,000 young men in the same suit who look as if they doodle “Theresa Bae” on their exercise books and regard American Psycho as reasonable masturbation material. If you’re tempted to go next year, it costs 520 of your rapidly nose-diving pounds, excluding hotel rooms, meals and crystal meth.Tory conference – the Eurocidal maniacs have found their ‘Theresa Bae’
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:00 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
I've been to England numerous times but for some reason my desire to return seems to have vanished.
I eagerly await Scotland's independence so I can visit there, UK-free.
posted by tommasz at 8:03 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
I eagerly await Scotland's independence so I can visit there, UK-free.
posted by tommasz at 8:03 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
"More than that, [EU] citizenship established an identity, separate from nationality, shared between individuals in the union."
That didn't happen.
Maybe not for you. For a lot of us, it did. Don't need everyone to identify with it for it have been established as a thing.
posted by Dysk at 8:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [36 favorites]
That didn't happen.
Maybe not for you. For a lot of us, it did. Don't need everyone to identify with it for it have been established as a thing.
posted by Dysk at 8:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [36 favorites]
More than that, [EU] citizenship established an identity, separate from nationality, shared between individuals in the union.
That didn't happen.
posted by Coda Tronca
Oh hi, Coda Tronca. If it didn't happen for you, that's your reality; I'm glad I don't share it. For the millions of people who voted Remain, the millions of EU citizens living in Britain, and the millions of Britons living in the EU, it clearly did.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:05 AM on October 7, 2016 [50 favorites]
That didn't happen.
posted by Coda Tronca
Oh hi, Coda Tronca. If it didn't happen for you, that's your reality; I'm glad I don't share it. For the millions of people who voted Remain, the millions of EU citizens living in Britain, and the millions of Britons living in the EU, it clearly did.
posted by Pallas Athena at 8:05 AM on October 7, 2016 [50 favorites]
And then there's the implosion of UKIP. Their new leader quit after only 18 days a few days back, and two of their members had an altercation yesterday that left one with a head injury and the other on the run from the police. That injured MEP, Steven Woolfe, had said that he was considering whether his future lay with the Conservatives, as they were now promising most of what UKIP has always wanted.
The Tories have finally become Ukip.
posted by rory at 8:05 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
The Tories have finally become Ukip.
posted by rory at 8:05 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
loiter around the Sky News mobile studio making pretend mobile phone calls in the hope a producer will recognise them
Or they might be Labour MPs phoning Guardian columnists with Corbyn smears.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2016
Or they might be Labour MPs phoning Guardian columnists with Corbyn smears.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2016
Immigrant to the UK here. Whee.
At least I'm in Scotland, whose government has been making reassuringly sane comments, for whatever that ends up being worth. I hope a lot.
posted by kyrademon at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
At least I'm in Scotland, whose government has been making reassuringly sane comments, for whatever that ends up being worth. I hope a lot.
posted by kyrademon at 8:06 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
For [...] the millions of Britons living in the EU, it clearly did.
Not all of them, clearly. Coda Tronca lives in the EU, for example. For now, anyone who lives in the UK does.
posted by Dysk at 8:08 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not all of them, clearly. Coda Tronca lives in the EU, for example. For now, anyone who lives in the UK does.
posted by Dysk at 8:08 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
If I was a rabid Scottish Nationalist I'd be rubbing my hands together in glee at this. The Conservative and Unionist party is quite happily underlining to Scots that shied away from Sottish nationalism previously, that the alternative is a corrosive English nationalism (that unthinkingly interchanges the terms British and English).
From a realpolitik point of view: Theresa May, who was a luke-warm Remainer before the referendum, seems to be going out her way to be seen as committed to the Brexit project. This has two advantages- it stops a coup from even more right-wing elements in her party, and it may encourage Labour to identify with obstructionism to the Brexit project/cluster-fuck that will peel off some white working class racist votes from Labour. The slight down-side to this strategy is the death of the union, the £ falling by 20% and being horrible, horrible bastards. (I'm trying to be balanced here.)
Labour seem to be happy to let this play out without making much noise (I guess to avoid the obstructionist charge above, though others will lay the blame on Corbyn's incompetence, or his own, at-best luke warm Remain beliefs).
There seems to be a space for an opposition party that cares about the economy (seriously, a 20% exchange rate drop if it happened with a left-wing govt in charge, would lead to howls in our press) and is pro-reality and progressive. Could the Lib Dems resurrect themselves in to that position in England? I must confess that looking south over the wall I don't feel qualified or in tune with England's perspective to guess if this is possible.
If I had a wand I'd magic a solution where Scotland remains as an inheritor state in the EU. As it is we shall ride on England's coat tails to destruction, or until they become reconciled with reality.
posted by Gratishades at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
From a realpolitik point of view: Theresa May, who was a luke-warm Remainer before the referendum, seems to be going out her way to be seen as committed to the Brexit project. This has two advantages- it stops a coup from even more right-wing elements in her party, and it may encourage Labour to identify with obstructionism to the Brexit project/cluster-fuck that will peel off some white working class racist votes from Labour. The slight down-side to this strategy is the death of the union, the £ falling by 20% and being horrible, horrible bastards. (I'm trying to be balanced here.)
Labour seem to be happy to let this play out without making much noise (I guess to avoid the obstructionist charge above, though others will lay the blame on Corbyn's incompetence, or his own, at-best luke warm Remain beliefs).
There seems to be a space for an opposition party that cares about the economy (seriously, a 20% exchange rate drop if it happened with a left-wing govt in charge, would lead to howls in our press) and is pro-reality and progressive. Could the Lib Dems resurrect themselves in to that position in England? I must confess that looking south over the wall I don't feel qualified or in tune with England's perspective to guess if this is possible.
If I had a wand I'd magic a solution where Scotland remains as an inheritor state in the EU. As it is we shall ride on England's coat tails to destruction, or until they become reconciled with reality.
posted by Gratishades at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [10 favorites]
Maybe not for you. For a lot of us, it did. Don't need everyone to identify with it for it have been established as a thing.
Once they've expelled the foreigners, they'll go after those who fraternise and break bread with foreigners and harbour foreign ideas or sympathies. I imagine mass-surveillance records will be very useful in identifying these individuals.
posted by acb at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Once they've expelled the foreigners, they'll go after those who fraternise and break bread with foreigners and harbour foreign ideas or sympathies. I imagine mass-surveillance records will be very useful in identifying these individuals.
posted by acb at 8:11 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
So we're moving into another Thatcher/Reagan era in extremis. Fucking wonderful.
posted by juiceCake at 8:14 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by juiceCake at 8:14 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
"So. To review, the tories started with the disabled and now they're after foreigners. What's next? They're gonna start blaming jews?"
No, that's Labour.
posted by marienbad at 8:14 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
No, that's Labour.
posted by marienbad at 8:14 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Theresa May: "Never again let left wing activist human rights lawyers harass the bravest of the brave, the men and women of our armed forces"
I think she means these guys: British soldiers ‘forced’ Iraqi boy into canal and let him drown, God forbid these "bravest of the brave" should be brought to book for their actions.
posted by biffa at 8:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
I think she means these guys: British soldiers ‘forced’ Iraqi boy into canal and let him drown, God forbid these "bravest of the brave" should be brought to book for their actions.
posted by biffa at 8:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [11 favorites]
And then there's the implosion of UKIP. Their new leader quit after only 18 days a few days back, and two of their members had an altercation yesterday that left one with a head injury and the other on the run from the police.
Don't worry Mike Hookem (the man who threw the punch) has emerged from hiding and is literally is that guy propping up the bar in a Leeds pub telling you about that time he got in fight.
posted by garius at 8:21 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Don't worry Mike Hookem (the man who threw the punch) has emerged from hiding and is literally is that guy propping up the bar in a Leeds pub telling you about that time he got in fight.
posted by garius at 8:21 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, at some airport exchanges, the pound is now worth less than a euro.
posted by garius at 8:28 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by garius at 8:28 AM on October 7, 2016
There seems to be a space for an opposition party that cares about the economy (seriously, a 20% exchange rate drop if it happened with a left-wing govt in charge, would lead to howls in our press) and is pro-reality and progressive. Could the Lib Dems resurrect themselves in to that position in England?
The Lib Dems are scheduled to be left out in the cold as untrustworthy, soulless, treacherous bastards for another... *checks watch*...half a generation at least?
posted by Dysk at 8:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Lib Dems are scheduled to be left out in the cold as untrustworthy, soulless, treacherous bastards for another... *checks watch*...half a generation at least?
posted by Dysk at 8:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, the £ is dropping like a rock: this morning’s flash crash as a bunch of people got stopped out (including Sports Direct: couldn’t happen to a nicer company) probably marks the future of cable.
As cstoss points out on his blog, this is not good for the poorest in the UK: We already have a stack of people in food poverty & a drop in the £ of this magnitude translates directly to increased food prices at the till.
posted by pharm at 8:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
As cstoss points out on his blog, this is not good for the poorest in the UK: We already have a stack of people in food poverty & a drop in the £ of this magnitude translates directly to increased food prices at the till.
posted by pharm at 8:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, at some airport exchanges, the pound is now worth less than a euro.
It's been that way for a while, though. On and off. The shocker is going to be when the Pound is worth less than a Dollar. Given that people are expecting £1 for $1.10 in the near future, it might happen sooner than we think.
posted by Grangousier at 8:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's been that way for a while, though. On and off. The shocker is going to be when the Pound is worth less than a Dollar. Given that people are expecting £1 for $1.10 in the near future, it might happen sooner than we think.
posted by Grangousier at 8:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've started wearing this shirt around lately because I think it is important to stand with my more easily identifiable immigrant compatriots.
That's awesome!
posted by zutalors! at 8:34 AM on October 7, 2016
Yeah Dysk, guessed that may be the case RE Lib Dems contamination in coalition. Tempting to think 'hell mend em', but hell's workshop is becoming overcrowded this weather.
posted by Gratishades at 8:38 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Gratishades at 8:38 AM on October 7, 2016
"As an immigrant third-culture-kid having made the UK my home: fuck you Theresa May, fuck your party, fuck your party leadership's spineless infighting referendum bullshit, and shove your twisted little england 'patriotic' so-called Britishness up yer fucking arse."
This alone proves your integration. A thoroughly British response.
posted by knapah at 8:40 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
This alone proves your integration. A thoroughly British response.
posted by knapah at 8:40 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've started wearing this shirt around lately because I think it is important to stand with my more easily identifiable immigrant compatriots.
A friend of mine is a now-naturalized immigrant from Germany. The other day I saw her wearing a shirt that said "DON'T WORRY, TRUMP. I'M LEGAL."
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:41 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine is a now-naturalized immigrant from Germany. The other day I saw her wearing a shirt that said "DON'T WORRY, TRUMP. I'M LEGAL."
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:41 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
this is not good for the poorest in the UK
The very people who voted to leave.
Mencken was right.
posted by koolkat at 8:41 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The very people who voted to leave.
Mencken was right.
posted by koolkat at 8:41 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not really a T-shirt chap, but I wear one of these in solidarity with my EU friends and to make it clear that, despite my English accent, I'm bloody well not with her.
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Doesn't anybody remember that Birmingham was his kind of town?
posted by lagomorphius at 8:47 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 8:47 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not really a T-shirt chap, but I wear one of these in solidarity with my EU friends and to make it clear that, despite my English accent, I'm bloody well not with her.
Just ordered three of them, thank you!
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:51 AM on October 7, 2016
Just ordered three of them, thank you!
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:51 AM on October 7, 2016
Meanwhile at the conference, Boris De Pfeffel Johnson called Africa a "country" and London a "Jiving Funkapolitan Melting Pot". (For those not following U.K. politics, Johnson is the current British Foreign Secretary and former Mayor of London, not a zany guest on the Channel 4 panel game "Was It Something I Said?".)
Born in NY and a US citizen though, so maybe its time for him to go back there...
posted by biffa at 8:53 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Born in NY and a US citizen though, so maybe its time for him to go back there...
posted by biffa at 8:53 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow, Theresa May and the Tories have really bought in to the "lump of labour" fallacy.
posted by My Dad at 8:57 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 8:57 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Please, as much as I regret wishing BoJo on the UK, one less manic street preacher of the Church of Clueless Toffs in the US is most welcome right now.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:15 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 9:15 AM on October 7, 2016
This is getting bloody scary. This kind of thing is happening all over the world. Are we doomed to continue the same cycles over and over?
posted by h00py at 9:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by h00py at 9:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm terrified. Even if I'm in Scotland, that no longer feels like a guarantee.
posted by kariebookish at 9:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kariebookish at 9:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Am I incorrect in thinking that an almost certainly successful Scottish independence vote would be a very rapid result of actual, factual Brexit? Because that's the impression I've got listening to Brits of various descriptions.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:26 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
God help me, I’m starting to wonder if we’d have been better off with Boris as prime minister. He's a feckless, self-serving opportunist, so its impossible to know what a Johnson government would be like (apart from chaotic), but I don’t think this particular variety of poison would be his style. Although he’d piss on the Queen at the state opening of parliament if he thought it would advance his career, so who the fuck knows.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:26 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:26 AM on October 7, 2016
Giles Fraser tweeted that he liked her speech.
I admired his open mind if not exactly his optimism. At least he avoided the knee-jerk oppositionalism that had some progressive people coming up with contorted reasons for condemning the idea of training more doctors.
There were in fact some interesting points: it was widely said that she disowned Cameron, but less noticed was that she kind of implicitly disowned Thatcher too. I suspect she may be a genuine conservative in the sense that she wants things to go back to how they were when she was young, in the sixties. That implies a level of acceptance, even patriotic pride, in certain kinds of state intervention, though obviously not the EU or mass immigration.
Those 'legs akimbo' pics are not from this year's conference, btw. I don't think Osborne turned up this time.
posted by Segundus at 9:28 AM on October 7, 2016
I admired his open mind if not exactly his optimism. At least he avoided the knee-jerk oppositionalism that had some progressive people coming up with contorted reasons for condemning the idea of training more doctors.
There were in fact some interesting points: it was widely said that she disowned Cameron, but less noticed was that she kind of implicitly disowned Thatcher too. I suspect she may be a genuine conservative in the sense that she wants things to go back to how they were when she was young, in the sixties. That implies a level of acceptance, even patriotic pride, in certain kinds of state intervention, though obviously not the EU or mass immigration.
Those 'legs akimbo' pics are not from this year's conference, btw. I don't think Osborne turned up this time.
posted by Segundus at 9:28 AM on October 7, 2016
Also for the first time this year they are recording non-British schoolchildren in schools:
The Guardian reports that The Department for Education has insisted that the information gathered by schools will not be handed to the Home Office and that the data is being collected and input to the national pupil database to ensure children “receive the best possible education.” However, disclosures under freedom of information laws have shown that the Home Office has been handed NPD data on 18 occasions since 2012.posted by kersplunk at 9:29 AM on October 7, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Never again let left wing activist human rights lawyers harass the bravest of the brave, the men and women of our armed forces"
I thought full-throated defence of the right to commit war crimes with impunity was an American thing. Get off our turf, May!
posted by tobascodagama at 9:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I thought full-throated defence of the right to commit war crimes with impunity was an American thing. Get off our turf, May!
posted by tobascodagama at 9:31 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
I thought full-throated defence of the right to commit war crimes with impunity was an American thing. Get off our turf, May!
The British right have been treating ‘human rights’ as a dirty word for several years now. Tying it to our brave boys is just a bonus.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:35 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
The British right have been treating ‘human rights’ as a dirty word for several years now. Tying it to our brave boys is just a bonus.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:35 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is getting bloody scary. This kind of thing is happening all over the world. Are we doomed to continue the same cycles over and over?
The long-form piece about Istanbul that was posted yesterday is an interesting ... counterpoint? to this discussion.
posted by Leon at 9:36 AM on October 7, 2016
The long-form piece about Istanbul that was posted yesterday is an interesting ... counterpoint? to this discussion.
posted by Leon at 9:36 AM on October 7, 2016
The question of Scottish independence in the light of Brexit is extremely uncertain. There are unresolved questions at every turn, from what the mechanism of accession to the EU would be (Spain is officially against Scotland keeping membership, because of Catalonia, but the general spirit of Brussels seems to be pro-membership), to the legal status of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish law over Brexit, to what the practical implications would be of any particular course of action.
It's as fucked up as Brexit itself, only more so.
The bottom line is - if there is a clear majority in Scotland that supports independence from the UK and continued membership of the EU, and if such things are achievable, then that's what will happen. But in the current uncertainties?
Nobody knows.
posted by Devonian at 9:37 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's as fucked up as Brexit itself, only more so.
The bottom line is - if there is a clear majority in Scotland that supports independence from the UK and continued membership of the EU, and if such things are achievable, then that's what will happen. But in the current uncertainties?
Nobody knows.
posted by Devonian at 9:37 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
What happens to the self employed business owner and tax payer?
posted by infini at 9:45 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by infini at 9:45 AM on October 7, 2016
What happens to the self employed business owner and tax payer?
I guess you prove that you've invested 200,000 quid in your business or get thrown out.
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess you prove that you've invested 200,000 quid in your business or get thrown out.
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Britain for Brythons - kick the Danes out!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:48 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:48 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
At least he avoided the knee-jerk oppositionalism that had some progressive people coming up with contorted reasons for condemning the idea of training more doctors.
You don't have to contort at all. In practice, it's unworkable without massive spending- which isn't coming. It needs infrastructure, training places, co-ordination, administration, morale. Trained up doctors are wonderful, but medical students inevitably take up the time and effort of doctors, nurses and patients.
If Hunt really wanted to make a difference to homegrown (yuck) numbers, he'd work to find amicable solutions for the junior doctor crisis, not spending hundreds of thousands of pounds fighting them.
Through a close relative of mine, I know a circle of doctors. Three of them are currently on long term sick leave. Three are leaving the county in the next three months. Another's just had to find a new position because the A&E unit they were working for is closing.
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:49 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
You don't have to contort at all. In practice, it's unworkable without massive spending- which isn't coming. It needs infrastructure, training places, co-ordination, administration, morale. Trained up doctors are wonderful, but medical students inevitably take up the time and effort of doctors, nurses and patients.
If Hunt really wanted to make a difference to homegrown (yuck) numbers, he'd work to find amicable solutions for the junior doctor crisis, not spending hundreds of thousands of pounds fighting them.
Through a close relative of mine, I know a circle of doctors. Three of them are currently on long term sick leave. Three are leaving the county in the next three months. Another's just had to find a new position because the A&E unit they were working for is closing.
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:49 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Britain for Brythons - kick the Danes out!
Dude :(
posted by Dysk at 9:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
Dude :(
posted by Dysk at 9:54 AM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]
> "The bottom line is - if there is a clear majority in Scotland that supports independence from the UK and continued membership of the EU, and if such things are achievable, then that's what will happen."
I'm not even sure that's true, uncertainties or not. It's only true if Scotland gets to vote again. I am not at all confident this will be allowed to happen.
posted by kyrademon at 9:58 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not even sure that's true, uncertainties or not. It's only true if Scotland gets to vote again. I am not at all confident this will be allowed to happen.
posted by kyrademon at 9:58 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
ENGLAND PREVAILS
posted by lalochezia at 10:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 10:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Britain for Brythons - kick the Danes out!
I don't know if this is a reference to something, but when you actually have a Dane commenting in this very thread, it's not as smart as you think it is.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this is a reference to something, but when you actually have a Dane commenting in this very thread, it's not as smart as you think it is.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:02 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
i'm pretty sure it's a reference to the great heathen army?
posted by poffin boffin at 10:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:04 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought it was a reference to the Vikings, and before them the Anglo-Saxons, most of whom were Danish.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:06 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:06 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
May's "If you're a citizen of the world, then you're a citizen of nowhere" is chilling. One of the Leave campaign's more successful bits of psychological manipulation was to plant the idea that you had to choose between being British OR European; you couldn't be both. They handwaved away the fact that being both has been the legal fact for 23 years, and is now the cultural norm. They badly wanted a country of closed minds and closed doors, and the post-referendum government is now doing all it can to get them one.
I have been an immigrant to Britain for about 26 years now, and a Londoner for 25. In London, everyone's from everywhere, and that is a great thing. It's only ever been a negative to a few loudmouth taxi drivers, that one wanker in the pub, and a handful of posh-accented 80-year-olds who can't quite cope with reality.
Despite Sadiq Khan's excellent London Is Open campaign, that seems to be changing now. In the excellent words of maxsparber, "Trickle-down economics might not work, but trickle-down hate does."
The May government seems to have decided that the answer to a surge in racist crimes is to side with the racists; that the best response to the murder of an MP is to side with the murderer; that the answer to rising xenophobia is to turn the country into a xenophobe's paradise. Most of us immigrants don't have a vote, so it's OK to score political points by kicking us; we can't kick back.
Some were, of course, moved by the seeming social-justice aspects of May's final conference speech. But this is what right-wing nationalists do; they demonise the Other while reassuring Us of their protection and care. The definitions of Us and Other are the only variables.
Having lived here as long as I have, I could apply for British citizenship; it would be expensive, but I'd probably get it. But is the Britain of May/Johnson/Fox/Davis/Rudd's vision a country any sane person would want to be a citizen of?
posted by Pallas Athena at 10:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [32 favorites]
I have been an immigrant to Britain for about 26 years now, and a Londoner for 25. In London, everyone's from everywhere, and that is a great thing. It's only ever been a negative to a few loudmouth taxi drivers, that one wanker in the pub, and a handful of posh-accented 80-year-olds who can't quite cope with reality.
Despite Sadiq Khan's excellent London Is Open campaign, that seems to be changing now. In the excellent words of maxsparber, "Trickle-down economics might not work, but trickle-down hate does."
The May government seems to have decided that the answer to a surge in racist crimes is to side with the racists; that the best response to the murder of an MP is to side with the murderer; that the answer to rising xenophobia is to turn the country into a xenophobe's paradise. Most of us immigrants don't have a vote, so it's OK to score political points by kicking us; we can't kick back.
Some were, of course, moved by the seeming social-justice aspects of May's final conference speech. But this is what right-wing nationalists do; they demonise the Other while reassuring Us of their protection and care. The definitions of Us and Other are the only variables.
Having lived here as long as I have, I could apply for British citizenship; it would be expensive, but I'd probably get it. But is the Britain of May/Johnson/Fox/Davis/Rudd's vision a country any sane person would want to be a citizen of?
posted by Pallas Athena at 10:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [32 favorites]
kyrademon - the thought of having a solid majority of Scotland wanting independence and not being allowed to vote on it is not something I want to dwell on. There is no path from there without a spiral of consequences that should be unthinkable in a modern democracy.
posted by Devonian at 10:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Devonian at 10:23 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this is a reference to something, but when you actually have a Dane commenting in this very thread, it's not as smart as you think it is.
(To be clear: not actually offended, just thought it worth a spot of riffing)
posted by Dysk at 10:28 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
(To be clear: not actually offended, just thought it worth a spot of riffing)
posted by Dysk at 10:28 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Regions not being allowed to seek independence is commonplace of modern democracy. In Europe, Catalonia, the Basque Country, northern Italy, Flanders ... all denied. In the US, dividing up extant cities and school districts for better local governance and return on resource is almost never allowed.
posted by MattD at 10:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 10:32 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Difference here is that Scotland actually has a Parliament of it’s own & thus has democratic legitimacy on it’s side. If the Scottish Parliament votes for a new referendum & then actually follows through what exactly is the UK Parliament going to do? They could completely ignore the result, but the resultant unrest could be very difficult to contain.
We really don’t want to go down that route.
posted by pharm at 10:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
We really don’t want to go down that route.
posted by pharm at 10:42 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yep, it's all shocking, vile, seemingly incredibly stupid and self-destructive, but, in its own way, it does actually make perfect sense.
All Tories care about, all they ever care about, all they've been taught to exist for is power. To retain and express power. So long as the Tories are in power, they care not. To that end, all that May was trying to do was (a) neuter UKIP by being xenophobic (b) neuter Labour be seemingly be somewhat anti-neo-liberal capitalist.
And given the ridiculous Brexit vote you could argue this was the simplest, and safest way to go about this. Keep any sense that Brexit won't happen at bay (and thereby keep lunatic Tories in her own party at bay); find someone to blame if it all goes wrong (foreigners).
In the end though, it's batshit insane. It's vile. It's horrible. It's incredibly dangerous. I know many folks desparately trying to find any EU relatives they can to get EU passports - folks looking at emigrating - and many folks I work with, from the EU, who are very worried.
Not at all good.
I just hope very much that Deutsche Bank keeps afloat for a long time somehow. If that goes, god help us all.
posted by rolandroland at 10:51 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
All Tories care about, all they ever care about, all they've been taught to exist for is power. To retain and express power. So long as the Tories are in power, they care not. To that end, all that May was trying to do was (a) neuter UKIP by being xenophobic (b) neuter Labour be seemingly be somewhat anti-neo-liberal capitalist.
And given the ridiculous Brexit vote you could argue this was the simplest, and safest way to go about this. Keep any sense that Brexit won't happen at bay (and thereby keep lunatic Tories in her own party at bay); find someone to blame if it all goes wrong (foreigners).
In the end though, it's batshit insane. It's vile. It's horrible. It's incredibly dangerous. I know many folks desparately trying to find any EU relatives they can to get EU passports - folks looking at emigrating - and many folks I work with, from the EU, who are very worried.
Not at all good.
I just hope very much that Deutsche Bank keeps afloat for a long time somehow. If that goes, god help us all.
posted by rolandroland at 10:51 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Crossing fingers for a viable independent Scotland I can emigrate to ASAP. Failing that, I might have to learn Icelandic or Portuguese, since all the formerly liberal safe havens (Scandinavia, the Netherlands) seem to be swinging hard right at scary rates...
posted by aihal at 10:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by aihal at 10:56 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Britain for Brythons - kick the Danes out!
Yeah, there are two Danes commenting in this thread and this comment just made me exceptionally, exceptionally uncomfortable in a week that has seen me being called sub-human for daring to fall in love with a Scotsman.
posted by kariebookish at 11:09 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, there are two Danes commenting in this thread and this comment just made me exceptionally, exceptionally uncomfortable in a week that has seen me being called sub-human for daring to fall in love with a Scotsman.
posted by kariebookish at 11:09 AM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lots of talk of emigrating from the country that now has the biggest socialist party in Europe.
The Conservative Party Conference has erupted into an orgy of xenophobia and nationalism
It was always that. From Norman Tebbit's 'Cricket Test' to the infamous 'Hang Nelson Mandela' badges, it's the party playing to its base. The rest is just hot air.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:18 AM on October 7, 2016
The Conservative Party Conference has erupted into an orgy of xenophobia and nationalism
It was always that. From Norman Tebbit's 'Cricket Test' to the infamous 'Hang Nelson Mandela' badges, it's the party playing to its base. The rest is just hot air.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:18 AM on October 7, 2016
It really is amazing (and depressing) how Brexit supporters keep on denying the bigotry even as it gets worse. A lot of cognitive dissonance in claiming "it will never happen here" as it's, y'know, actually happening.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
"Disgusting Xenophobic Repellent"
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
oh my yes.
posted by clavdivs at 11:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Do they sell this in a handy spray can?
oh my yes.
posted by clavdivs at 11:30 AM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
karie, I don't think offence was meant, in fact it was a joke at the xenophobes' expense, like this Stewart Lee bit.
posted by Acey at 11:33 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Acey at 11:33 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Personally I don't deny that there's bigotry happening, but as someone who lived through the 70s and the National Front, when the active left wing opposition to it was tiny rather than a movement now aiming for a million members, it felt worse then.
In 1979 I used to sit next to a boy at school who proudly told me his dad went out on the weekends 'paki bashing'. Almost overnight all the convenience stores run by British Asian immigrants had bars put up on them to stop bricks and petrol bombs. It was awful and you scarcely heard a word against it - certainly not from the Labour Party in those days.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
In 1979 I used to sit next to a boy at school who proudly told me his dad went out on the weekends 'paki bashing'. Almost overnight all the convenience stores run by British Asian immigrants had bars put up on them to stop bricks and petrol bombs. It was awful and you scarcely heard a word against it - certainly not from the Labour Party in those days.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:38 AM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Speaking of being in denial, all this xenophobia & anti-trade illeberalism is the Remainers’ fault according to Fraser Nelson. You couldn’t make it up.
posted by pharm at 11:45 AM on October 7, 2016
posted by pharm at 11:45 AM on October 7, 2016
Difference here is that Scotland actually has a Parliament of it’s own & thus has democratic legitimacy on it’s side. If the Scottish Parliament votes for a new referendum & then actually follows through what exactly is the UK Parliament going to do? They could completely ignore the result, but the resultant unrest could be very difficult to contain.
The Brexit people have already shown that they're willing to engage in assassination. If Scotland's Parliament takes up the issue, who much do you want to bet there won't be "terrorist incidents" targeting it?
We really don’t want to go down that route.
Are you sure that the Conservative party wouldn't be willing to use that unrest? Just think of what they could push through with violence in the streets.
posted by happyroach at 11:55 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Brexit people have already shown that they're willing to engage in assassination. If Scotland's Parliament takes up the issue, who much do you want to bet there won't be "terrorist incidents" targeting it?
We really don’t want to go down that route.
Are you sure that the Conservative party wouldn't be willing to use that unrest? Just think of what they could push through with violence in the streets.
posted by happyroach at 11:55 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's only true if Scotland gets to vote again. I am not at all confident this will be allowed to happen.
Westminster may not allow it to happen, but there's nothing in international law preventing Scotland from holding its own vote and setting up its own country, in an act of constitutional autochthony. It is especially true where one sovereign state joins with another, as it then becomes not a matter of gaining sovereignty, but taking it back.
Whether this is desirable as a practical matter is a different question, but from a legal perspective, it's entirely possible. While it may not be the preferred route, there are precedents for it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:22 PM on October 7, 2016
Westminster may not allow it to happen, but there's nothing in international law preventing Scotland from holding its own vote and setting up its own country, in an act of constitutional autochthony. It is especially true where one sovereign state joins with another, as it then becomes not a matter of gaining sovereignty, but taking it back.
Whether this is desirable as a practical matter is a different question, but from a legal perspective, it's entirely possible. While it may not be the preferred route, there are precedents for it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:22 PM on October 7, 2016
Still younger than Corbyn.
The referendum seems to have made the whole apple cart go non-linear.
posted by Leon at 12:22 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The referendum seems to have made the whole apple cart go non-linear.
posted by Leon at 12:22 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
The trouble with denying a second Indyref is that the No campaign went heavy on the 'if you leave the UK, you leave the EU'. It's hard to make a case that a referendum should be denied even though one of the primary arguments from the first has been reversed.
All of the nativist shit that's been ladled out now is because Brexit was never defined, so people were voting to give the government a blank cheque. Having decided that the most important thing is to keep the old white rural vote onside, and not being willing to do that by, y'know, economic or political movements to improve their lives, the only thing to do is throw the wogs out and damn the consequences.
But the issue of Scottish independence isn't like that. There's a lot of previous, not least that Scotland is quasi-independent already. It's always had a different legal system, and now it has its own Parliament with authority over many aspects of the country. It's no blank slate.
Westminster reserves the right to repeal the Scotland Act and dissolve the Scottish Parliament, taking control back. if the Scottish Parliament decides to block the Great Repeal Act - which it probably could - then this might be something Westminster could do.
But if it did, there would be barricades, and I would be on them. All together now...
posted by Devonian at 12:39 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
All of the nativist shit that's been ladled out now is because Brexit was never defined, so people were voting to give the government a blank cheque. Having decided that the most important thing is to keep the old white rural vote onside, and not being willing to do that by, y'know, economic or political movements to improve their lives, the only thing to do is throw the wogs out and damn the consequences.
But the issue of Scottish independence isn't like that. There's a lot of previous, not least that Scotland is quasi-independent already. It's always had a different legal system, and now it has its own Parliament with authority over many aspects of the country. It's no blank slate.
Westminster reserves the right to repeal the Scotland Act and dissolve the Scottish Parliament, taking control back. if the Scottish Parliament decides to block the Great Repeal Act - which it probably could - then this might be something Westminster could do.
But if it did, there would be barricades, and I would be on them. All together now...
posted by Devonian at 12:39 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
The Guardian reports that The Department for Education has insisted that the information gathered by schools will not be handed to the Home Office and that the data is being collected and input to the national pupil database to ensure children “receive the best possible education.” However, disclosures under freedom of information laws have shown that the Home Office has been handed NPD data on 18 occasions since 2012.
This is what they're telling analysts inside DfE too, for what it's worth.
posted by knapah at 12:59 PM on October 7, 2016
This is what they're telling analysts inside DfE too, for what it's worth.
posted by knapah at 12:59 PM on October 7, 2016
Seems, sadly, All Part of The Plan for British Empire 2.0. Everywhere in the world cracking down on offshore money? Why not put all the offshore money on an island with the added protection of nuclear weapons! Every little financial rathole around the world won't be able to compete with an offshore financial cartel with its own navy. Immigrants and other poors are just distractions from world financial dominance; let 'em starve.
The timing of this UK move (and similar idiocies worldwide) coincides with the decline of those old enough to serve in WW2. There are few survivors left; too few to reinforce the message that discrimination-as-national-policy leads to ugly results. Too few left to leave even a blip on the polls.
This is what fascism looks like.
posted by scruss at 1:50 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
The timing of this UK move (and similar idiocies worldwide) coincides with the decline of those old enough to serve in WW2. There are few survivors left; too few to reinforce the message that discrimination-as-national-policy leads to ugly results. Too few left to leave even a blip on the polls.
This is what fascism looks like.
posted by scruss at 1:50 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
A friend of mine is a now-naturalized immigrant from Germany. The other day I saw her wearing a shirt that said "DON'T WORRY, TRUMP. I'M LEGAL."
The white ones aren't the problem for Trump and supporters. It's the Mexicans and the Muslims that keep them awake at night.
posted by theorique at 1:52 PM on October 7, 2016
The white ones aren't the problem for Trump and supporters. It's the Mexicans and the Muslims that keep them awake at night.
posted by theorique at 1:52 PM on October 7, 2016
But if it did, there would be barricades, and I would be on them. All together now...
and if the English want their empire back they'd be wise to start, like they did the last time, by shooting the lot of you. or, with the times, use high precision targeted munitions against domestic terrorist militias or some such...
posted by ennui.bz at 2:13 PM on October 7, 2016
and if the English want their empire back they'd be wise to start, like they did the last time, by shooting the lot of you. or, with the times, use high precision targeted munitions against domestic terrorist militias or some such...
posted by ennui.bz at 2:13 PM on October 7, 2016
if the Scottish Parliament decides to block the Great Repeal Act - which it probably could
This is very interesting. The article in Scottish Legal News that you posted touched on this but didn't explain it. Am I right to think that it goes something like what follows?
The Great Repeal Act doesn't change any EU derived laws; it just makes the ultimate authority for those laws Westminster and the UK Supreme Court.
This means avoiding the Herculean task of amending every individual law influenced by EU jurisprudence, as the UK courts can effectively change them in the long run (with Westminster also picking off the laws they really don't like bit by bit).
The Scottish Parliament is the ultimate authority for laws regarding devolved powers*, therefore it could block a Great Repeal Act insofar as such an Act would purport to include all of those laws.
So this puts Westminster in the position of either not being able to pass a Great Repeal Law, or of passing a Great Repeal Law (England and Wales) that doesn't apply in Scotland.
Of course they could also pass a Lesser Repeal Law (Scotland) if they thought it worth the effort to specifically address those laws relevant to the non-devolved powers. But that would put them in a situation far worse than the PollTax laws. Now they would have to pass a law that only applied in Scotland, despite opposition from at least 54+ of the 59 Scottish MPs.
*For now, as it only does so because Westminster chooses to allow it.
posted by GeckoDundee at 2:16 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is very interesting. The article in Scottish Legal News that you posted touched on this but didn't explain it. Am I right to think that it goes something like what follows?
The Great Repeal Act doesn't change any EU derived laws; it just makes the ultimate authority for those laws Westminster and the UK Supreme Court.
This means avoiding the Herculean task of amending every individual law influenced by EU jurisprudence, as the UK courts can effectively change them in the long run (with Westminster also picking off the laws they really don't like bit by bit).
The Scottish Parliament is the ultimate authority for laws regarding devolved powers*, therefore it could block a Great Repeal Act insofar as such an Act would purport to include all of those laws.
So this puts Westminster in the position of either not being able to pass a Great Repeal Law, or of passing a Great Repeal Law (England and Wales) that doesn't apply in Scotland.
Of course they could also pass a Lesser Repeal Law (Scotland) if they thought it worth the effort to specifically address those laws relevant to the non-devolved powers. But that would put them in a situation far worse than the PollTax laws. Now they would have to pass a law that only applied in Scotland, despite opposition from at least 54+ of the 59 Scottish MPs.
*For now, as it only does so because Westminster chooses to allow it.
posted by GeckoDundee at 2:16 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's just too much right-wing authoritarianism on the rise in this world for there not to be a big-ass conflagration sooner rather than later. Jesus, I don't want to see the next 20 years.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:17 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:17 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Everywhere in the world cracking down on offshore money? Why not put all the offshore money on an island with the added protection of nuclear weapons!
But there's no cracking down on offshore money, least of all in the US where the Fortune 500 collectively hold $2.5 trillion in tax havens. Around half of that is in either Bermuda, Ireland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, none of which have nuclear weapons... but most of them are in the EU! Including Luxembourg, which the EU President Jean-Claude Juncker personally turned into a tax haven honeypot for multinationals. Not sure I'd call Juncker a full-blown fascist, though.
May's conference speech actually touched on this stuff, as she pitched for the 'centre':
"So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff, an international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra... I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on any more."
posted by Coda Tronca at 2:23 PM on October 7, 2016
But there's no cracking down on offshore money, least of all in the US where the Fortune 500 collectively hold $2.5 trillion in tax havens. Around half of that is in either Bermuda, Ireland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Switzerland, none of which have nuclear weapons... but most of them are in the EU! Including Luxembourg, which the EU President Jean-Claude Juncker personally turned into a tax haven honeypot for multinationals. Not sure I'd call Juncker a full-blown fascist, though.
May's conference speech actually touched on this stuff, as she pitched for the 'centre':
"So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff, an international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra... I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on any more."
posted by Coda Tronca at 2:23 PM on October 7, 2016
George Osborne also claimed he was going to crackdown on tax avoidance. The results of which were...
posted by threetwentytwo at 2:36 PM on October 7, 2016
posted by threetwentytwo at 2:36 PM on October 7, 2016
I need a t-shirt I can wear in the US that says "I am an emigrant"
posted by chavenet at 3:25 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 3:25 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a LOCAL COUNTRY. For LOCAL PEOPLE.
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]
To my kids: an apology. I am sorry for the world you are growing up and coming to adulthood in. I'll try to un-fuck it for you as best I can.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:41 PM on October 7, 2016
posted by wenestvedt at 3:41 PM on October 7, 2016
Oh, so it's your fault, is it? Whatever were you thinking?
posted by Grangousier at 3:43 PM on October 7, 2016
posted by Grangousier at 3:43 PM on October 7, 2016
I would be happier about the relative strength of the Labour party if I thought it could win an election, form a proper opposition with coherent criticism of the shower of utter wankers who seem to be pulling the strings or indeed do anything except fight like ferrets in a sack.
And now Tony Blair says he is thinking of coming back to frontline politics, cheerfully oblivious of how much everyone hates him. What next, a plague of locusts?
All those people who have been trumpeting on about the decent PMI figures etc this summer and telling us we're talking the country down if we worry are just like those people who confuse climate change and weather. Just because the economic pain hasn't properly started yet doesn't mean it won't. Then you wait until the cuts in public services start, cuts to the BBC, to the NHS -- all in the name of independence, and "you voted for it, so we all have to tighten our belts."
I am utterly ashamed of my country's government and utterly lost about how to combat their half-baked, land of hope and glory-lite bullshit.
posted by finisterre at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
And now Tony Blair says he is thinking of coming back to frontline politics, cheerfully oblivious of how much everyone hates him. What next, a plague of locusts?
All those people who have been trumpeting on about the decent PMI figures etc this summer and telling us we're talking the country down if we worry are just like those people who confuse climate change and weather. Just because the economic pain hasn't properly started yet doesn't mean it won't. Then you wait until the cuts in public services start, cuts to the BBC, to the NHS -- all in the name of independence, and "you voted for it, so we all have to tighten our belts."
I am utterly ashamed of my country's government and utterly lost about how to combat their half-baked, land of hope and glory-lite bullshit.
posted by finisterre at 3:56 PM on October 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
GeckoDundee - yes, that's much as I see that aspect of the seething hellswamp.
But it's a UK constitutional matter, so we get to make it up as we go.
posted by Devonian at 4:10 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
But it's a UK constitutional matter, so we get to make it up as we go.
posted by Devonian at 4:10 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Most of us immigrants don't have a vote, so it's OK to score political points by kicking us; we can't kick back.
And this is a great advantage of the vote #1 quidnunc kid campaign: literally no-one is disqualified from voting, as often as they like. And if you DON'T vote #1 quidnunc kid, that's also fine - I'm totally free to ignore your input. To be honest, I probably already have. So it's a win-win situation!
Also Pallas, we immigrant scum should have a drink soon, huh? :-(
posted by the quidnunc kid at 4:29 PM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
And this is a great advantage of the vote #1 quidnunc kid campaign: literally no-one is disqualified from voting, as often as they like. And if you DON'T vote #1 quidnunc kid, that's also fine - I'm totally free to ignore your input. To be honest, I probably already have. So it's a win-win situation!
Also Pallas, we immigrant scum should have a drink soon, huh? :-(
posted by the quidnunc kid at 4:29 PM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]
Quid, I think we need about 10 drinks.
Think of the damage our banishment would do to the British beer industry.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:06 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Think of the damage our banishment would do to the British beer industry.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:06 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Daniel Defoe, "The True-Born Englishman" (1701)
Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman:
In eager rapes, and furious lust begot,
Betwixt a painted Britain and a Scot.
Whose gend’ring off-spring quickly learn’d to bow,
And yoke their heifers to the Roman plough:
From whence a mongrel half-bred race there came,
With neither name, nor nation, speech nor fame.
In whose hot veins new mixtures quickly ran,
Infus’d betwixt a Saxon and a Dane.
While their rank daughters, to their parents just,
Receiv’d all nations with promiscuous lust.
This nauseous brood directly did contain
The well-extracted blood of Englishmen.
…
’Tis well that virtue gives nobility,
How shall we else the want of birth and blood supply?
Since scarce one family is left alive,
Which does not from some foreigner derive.
Cf. the good-intentioned but accidentally hurtful jibes about "Danes" above.
posted by dhens at 8:21 PM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman:
In eager rapes, and furious lust begot,
Betwixt a painted Britain and a Scot.
Whose gend’ring off-spring quickly learn’d to bow,
And yoke their heifers to the Roman plough:
From whence a mongrel half-bred race there came,
With neither name, nor nation, speech nor fame.
In whose hot veins new mixtures quickly ran,
Infus’d betwixt a Saxon and a Dane.
While their rank daughters, to their parents just,
Receiv’d all nations with promiscuous lust.
This nauseous brood directly did contain
The well-extracted blood of Englishmen.
…
’Tis well that virtue gives nobility,
How shall we else the want of birth and blood supply?
Since scarce one family is left alive,
Which does not from some foreigner derive.
Cf. the good-intentioned but accidentally hurtful jibes about "Danes" above.
posted by dhens at 8:21 PM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Here's May's full speech, with a mixture of rampant xenophobia and economic populism.
Yet within our society today, we see division and unfairness all around. Between a more prosperous older generation and a struggling younger generation. Between the wealth of London and the rest of the country.posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:16 PM on October 7, 2016
But perhaps most of all, between the rich, the successful and the powerful - and their fellow citizens...
That spirit that means recognising the social contract that says you train up local young people before you take on cheap labour from overseas.
That spirit that means you do as others do, and pay your fair share of tax.
But today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.
But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.
So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff-- An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra-- A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism-- A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust--
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore...
Just listen to the way a lot of politicians and commentators talk about the public.
They find your patriotism distasteful, your concerns about immigration parochial, your views about crime illiberal, your attachment to your job security inconvenient.
They find the fact that more than seventeen million voters decided to leave the European Union simply bewildering.
Because if you’re well off and comfortable, Britain is a different country and these concerns are not your concerns. It’s easy to dismiss them - easy to say that all you want from government is for it to get out of the way.
But a change has got to come. It’s time to remember the good that government can do.
Time for a new approach that says while government does not have all the answers, government can and should be a force for good; that the state exists to provide what individual people, communities and markets cannot; and that we should employ the power of government for the good of the people.
Is "A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism" a jab at Apple? Because if so, how very conservative that making a point in favor of individual rights and privacy should be demonized for not kowtowing appropriately to authority in the name of turrism.
posted by sldownard at 3:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sldownard at 3:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pallas Athena: you could consider applying for British citizenship and moving to Scotland. That way, if IndyRef 2 happens and Scotland secedes, you'd inherit Scottish citizenship by right of residence. (One of the ground rules the previous independence campaign laid down was that (a) anyone living in Scotland or born in Scotland would acquire Scottish nationality, and (b) dual nationality would be recognized.)
NB: this assumes that IndyRef 2 will be allowed to happen. IndyRef 1 only happened because David Cameron deliberately forced it's timing on Alex Salmond, expecting a clear defeat (support for independence was down at 30% when Cameron announced it). The outcome (45% in favour) was a nasty shock for the unionists. Polling currently puts support at around 44%, so an IndyRef campaign starting now that managed to match the swing in the previous one would deliver a solid 59% for independence. And if such a referendum is held to a backdrop of Sterling crashing, the ugly strain of English nationalism coming out to play, and the economy in jeopardy, that's not an inconceivable outcome (a year or two from now).
So I expect Theresa May to fight tooth and nail to prevent it.
posted by cstross at 5:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
NB: this assumes that IndyRef 2 will be allowed to happen. IndyRef 1 only happened because David Cameron deliberately forced it's timing on Alex Salmond, expecting a clear defeat (support for independence was down at 30% when Cameron announced it). The outcome (45% in favour) was a nasty shock for the unionists. Polling currently puts support at around 44%, so an IndyRef campaign starting now that managed to match the swing in the previous one would deliver a solid 59% for independence. And if such a referendum is held to a backdrop of Sterling crashing, the ugly strain of English nationalism coming out to play, and the economy in jeopardy, that's not an inconceivable outcome (a year or two from now).
So I expect Theresa May to fight tooth and nail to prevent it.
posted by cstross at 5:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]
Theresa May, here’s why other EU countries will not give you an easy deal
posted by mumimor at 3:17 AM on October 9, 2016
posted by mumimor at 3:17 AM on October 9, 2016
With the Observer reporting that a cross-party group of MPs is planning to force a vote on Brexit strategy (it's all about parliamentary sovereignty, right?), the Home Office rapidly retreating on the list-all-the-furriners plans the City and Wall Street finally aware what's cooking, and plenty fo rumours about Cabinet discord, I wouldn't be surprised if the wheels were going to continually come off this wagon faster than they can be nailed back on.
One of the things about Brexit is that, from many angles, it actually looks impossible without actual chaos. You can talk it up all you like, but at some point you have to do something - and the things they said at party conference don't seem to doable.
posted by Devonian at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the things about Brexit is that, from many angles, it actually looks impossible without actual chaos. You can talk it up all you like, but at some point you have to do something - and the things they said at party conference don't seem to doable.
posted by Devonian at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
To paraphrase Zizek, 'it is easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of the European Union.'
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:09 AM on October 9, 2016
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:09 AM on October 9, 2016
Theresa May's speech, condensed:
"The dwarfs are for the dwarfs."
posted by happyroach at 11:58 AM on October 9, 2016
"The dwarfs are for the dwarfs."
posted by happyroach at 11:58 AM on October 9, 2016
Am I incorrect in thinking that an almost certainly
This is all uncharted territory, so thinking anything's almost certain is pretty wildly optimistic. I think it's likely. And I'd be surprised, but not very surprised if the EU was resistant to Scotland joining. The situation for Northern Ireland would be especially strained if that all went through.
posted by ambrosen at 3:28 PM on October 9, 2016
This is all uncharted territory, so thinking anything's almost certain is pretty wildly optimistic. I think it's likely. And I'd be surprised, but not very surprised if the EU was resistant to Scotland joining. The situation for Northern Ireland would be especially strained if that all went through.
posted by ambrosen at 3:28 PM on October 9, 2016
There was an interesting study on the referendum here:
These data show that the EU referendum vote crystallised a political cleavage in much the same way as happened in the Scottish referendum. Unlike the Scottish referendum however, the EU referendum has not caused an immediate overhaul of the party system...posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:39 PM on October 9, 2016
...is 6% a small amount of regret or a lot? One way to assess the amount of regret is to compare with how many people regretted how they voted in the General Election last year (when we asked an equivalent question). Overall, 4% of voters regretted how they voted in May 2015, the highest proportion being Liberal Democrats (8%) and Green voters (6%), perhaps because in the absence of a hung parliament these votes were deemed wasted. There was little evidence of a comparable winner's regret...
I have no idea what's going on in the Cabinet. But one thing that occurs to me is that they might be talking tough on free movement as an initial bargaining position, while the actual plan is to cut immigration numbers by encouraging a climate of hostility and aggression, without formally rejecting free movement. Theresa May was always responsible for implementing the "tens of thousands" target while free movement was in place, maybe she still thinks she can achieve it now she has the power of being PM.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
So, petrol prices are due to go up by around 5p/l. Some of that is rising oil prices , some due to Brexit-bombing sterling.
Just the start. Cabinet told by the Treasury that after fifteen years of Brexit, up to 66bn of annual GNP may be lost under WTO rules. That's around ten percent, with concomitant reductions in tax takes.
Don't get old, don't get sick.
posted by Devonian at 6:27 PM on October 10, 2016
Just the start. Cabinet told by the Treasury that after fifteen years of Brexit, up to 66bn of annual GNP may be lost under WTO rules. That's around ten percent, with concomitant reductions in tax takes.
Don't get old, don't get sick.
posted by Devonian at 6:27 PM on October 10, 2016
Those numbers are based on an original Project Fear report from Osborne. They are no more accurate and certain today than they were when he published them in April and warned us that a 'punishment budget' would have to happen immediately (nothing happened). Petrol was 30p a litre more expensive a couple of years ago, it goes up and down.
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:45 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by Coda Tronca at 11:45 PM on October 10, 2016
There's no pressure for a second referendum on Scottish independence because polls suggest the Brexit vote has had no impact - the majority against independence is the same as it was. In addition with the collapsing oil price Scotland has seen the emergence of a massive Budget deficit which would make independence now economically problematic.
posted by Segundus at 11:45 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by Segundus at 11:45 PM on October 10, 2016
The crash in the pound punctures the delusion that Brexit Britain will flourish.
posted by rory at 4:32 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by rory at 4:32 AM on October 11, 2016
The UK is still in the EU. This is the calm before the storm. After article 50 kicks in at the (very, very) end of March 2017, we will begin to see that the slim majority of people who voted to Brexit did not shoot everyone in one foot, but both feet.
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:56 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:56 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, it's all going swimmingly:
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
The business daily Dagens Næringsliv said the international trade minister, Liam Fox, asked Norway’s trade and industry minster, Monica Mæland, to form a bilateral trade working group at a meeting between the two ministers and their officials on 14 September.grauniad
The request was passed to the Norwegian foreign affairs ministry, which is coordinating Norway’s Brexit response, where it was rejected as likely to jeopardise Norway’s European Economic Area (EEA) agreement and “inappropriate” while Britain was still a full member of the EU, the paper said.
The rejection marks a second early setback for Fox’s department after Australia’s trade minister said last month that any formal work on a post-Brexit Australia-UK trade deal would take second place to trade talks with the EU, and anyway could not begin until Britain had fully exited from the bloc.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Press release
Foreign Office statement clarifying media reports on working with international academics
A Foreign Office spokesman said:
This story stems from a misunderstanding. To be absolutely clear on the facts – it is categorically wrong to suggest that we would not welcome the work of non-British nationals, including EU nationals. We did so before the referendum and we will continue to do so in the future – benefiting from advice from the best and brightest minds, regardless of nationality.
posted by infini at 10:29 AM on October 11, 2016
UK Government loses in the High Court, will appeal judgement that states that parliament must approve Article 50 notification to the Supreme Court. David Allen Green has some commentary in the FT.
Brexit is certainly the gift that keeps on giving, in an "oh god, what now?" kind of way. May could have skipped all this court kerfuffle with a 2-line bill in Parliament, stating that Parliament delegated authority to invoke Article 50 at a time of their choosing to the Executive.
The fact that she hasn’t done that suggests very strongly that she doesn’t think she will be able to get such a bill through.
posted by pharm at 10:18 AM on November 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Brexit is certainly the gift that keeps on giving, in an "oh god, what now?" kind of way. May could have skipped all this court kerfuffle with a 2-line bill in Parliament, stating that Parliament delegated authority to invoke Article 50 at a time of their choosing to the Executive.
The fact that she hasn’t done that suggests very strongly that she doesn’t think she will be able to get such a bill through.
posted by pharm at 10:18 AM on November 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
British newspapers react to judges' Brexit ruling: 'Enemies of the people'
posted by zombieflanders at 6:39 AM on November 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:39 AM on November 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Daily Mail cover is shockingly repellent even by the standard of Daily Mail covers.
posted by dng at 6:51 AM on November 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dng at 6:51 AM on November 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Martin McGuinness has refused to rule out whether his party will reverse its abstentionist policy in order for its MPs to vote against Article 50 in Westminster, it has been reported.
Very, very strange times. I'm really struggling to process this one, partly because I can see it how it does make sense.
posted by hawthorne at 9:59 PM on November 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Very, very strange times. I'm really struggling to process this one, partly because I can see it how it does make sense.
posted by hawthorne at 9:59 PM on November 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
And what has the Labour leadership been up to during the last week when they could have been taking the fight to the Tories? Infighting over who gets to control the Momentum movement, that’s what.
How Momentum Entered the Crisis Zone
Why Labour Can’t Get It’s Act Together on Brexit
If you want to entrench the idea in the general population that your leadership is more interested in internecine procedural battles for control of the movement instead of actually engaging with the issues that matter to the people, then this is pretty much the perfect approach. Bravo. Slow hand clap. Well done guys.
posted by pharm at 4:09 AM on November 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
How Momentum Entered the Crisis Zone
Why Labour Can’t Get It’s Act Together on Brexit
If you want to entrench the idea in the general population that your leadership is more interested in internecine procedural battles for control of the movement instead of actually engaging with the issues that matter to the people, then this is pretty much the perfect approach. Bravo. Slow hand clap. Well done guys.
posted by pharm at 4:09 AM on November 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
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posted by Talez at 7:15 AM on October 7, 2016 [14 favorites]