You don't get into this for the money because THERE IS NO F*&$ING MONEY
January 4, 2017 12:04 PM Subscribe
The American restaurant business is a bubble, and that bubble is bursting. I've arrived at this conclusion after spending a year traveling around the country and talking to chefs, restaurant owners, and other industry folk for this series. In part one, I talked about how the Good Food Revival Movement™ created colonies of similar, hip restaurants in cities all over the country. In the series' second story, I discussed how a shortage of cooks -- driven by a combination of the restaurant bubble, shifts in immigration, and a surge of millennials -- is permanently altering the way a restaurant's back of the house has to operate in order to survive.
This, the final story, is simple: I want you to understand why America's Golden Age of Restaurants is coming to an end.
There's an X in the top left corner of the popup.
posted by borkencode at 12:15 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by borkencode at 12:15 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
a puzzling and controversial element that defines "full time" as 30 hours per week, and not the 40-hour workweek used almost everywhere else (the Save American Workers Act proposes to move this back to 40 hours).
Is it really that puzzling? We all know that they schedule you for 39 hours if the requirement is for 40-hour employees. At least at 29 hours, it's clearly a part-time job.
posted by explosion at 12:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
Is it really that puzzling? We all know that they schedule you for 39 hours if the requirement is for 40-hour employees. At least at 29 hours, it's clearly a part-time job.
posted by explosion at 12:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [20 favorites]
I'm not sure I'd use 'golden age' to describe any period of industry/employment that relied on there being loads of workers willing to work for below-minimum wage or at an appallingly low one, or unable to find any other employment due to their legal status.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:24 PM on January 4, 2017 [101 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:24 PM on January 4, 2017 [101 favorites]
This seems a lot like that tumblr thread/meme about why the younger generation isn't buying diamonds anymore. Younger generation doesn't have (as many) kids, are not marrying, and are saddled by debt in different ways then their parents and grandparents. They are also educated differently.
All industries are going to have to change the way they do business because the way we live life is much different then it was in the 80's and 90's where you were married and had two kids.
posted by INFJ at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
All industries are going to have to change the way they do business because the way we live life is much different then it was in the 80's and 90's where you were married and had two kids.
posted by INFJ at 12:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
It wasn't clear to me if the author is arguing that the rate of restaurant closure is actually increasing (ie a bubble burst), or if the brutal restaurant survival rate is just more apparent due to a large number of higher-profile restaurants still being subjected to the same market forces they have always been.
posted by Think_Long at 12:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 12:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Never mind the minimum wage increases and the health care requirements, if there are 7,600 restaurants in SF, that's one for every 110 people. That's a bubble. Do homes in San Francisco not have kitchens?
posted by conic at 12:32 PM on January 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by conic at 12:32 PM on January 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Well, the tech industry has a lot of people with disposable income who like to eat out, which probably explains a high restaurant:people ratio in SF. When I was single every meal was either provided by my employer or from a restaurant (delivery or otherwise), and I know plenty of others who do the same.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:35 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 12:35 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do homes in San Francisco not have kitchens?
When your kitchen cupboards have been turned into clothing storage, and your stove can't be used because it's the only place to put your books, because your living room is now a 3rd bedroom and your bedroom doesn't have room for anything more than a bed, cooking at home is tough.
posted by thecjm at 12:36 PM on January 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
When your kitchen cupboards have been turned into clothing storage, and your stove can't be used because it's the only place to put your books, because your living room is now a 3rd bedroom and your bedroom doesn't have room for anything more than a bed, cooking at home is tough.
posted by thecjm at 12:36 PM on January 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
As far as I can tell, people are still going out to eat. A lot. There's a special niche for independent restaurants, and they get a lot of pressure from the big chains. Just like independent department stores, book stores, hardware stores, and all sorts of other businesses, there's a Big Chain ready to move in, and they can do it cheaper and they don't care about ethics, employees, the community, etc. It's sucky, but this is how business works in 2016, and I'm pretty sure it is creating a world with many horrible attributes. You get to be part of UltraMegaCorp, or you will probably get crushed.
Support local business as much as you can, Oppose the ultramegacorporatization of everything, etc. But look at reality and despair. Sorry. I haven't recovered from the election yet.
posted by theora55 at 12:38 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Support local business as much as you can, Oppose the ultramegacorporatization of everything, etc. But look at reality and despair. Sorry. I haven't recovered from the election yet.
posted by theora55 at 12:38 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
I thought it was kind of odd/gross that the article tried to position the main reason for the end of the Golden Age being that restaurants now have to pay workers a more appropriate amount. As I've heard said about Wal-Mart and perhaps Uber, any business model that depends on not providing your employees a living wage is not a viable business model.
I left San Francisco before A.Q. opened, but the food gentrification problem there was evident long ago. The cycle of pricier places competing for a smaller amount of richer and more fickle customers was inevitably going to end poorly. (Aided by the usurious rent-raising behavior of landlords trying to cash in on hot neighborhoods, which is a problem not unique to restaurants.) can anyone who currently lives there tell me if there even are any taquerias left on Valencia?
posted by ejs at 12:40 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
I left San Francisco before A.Q. opened, but the food gentrification problem there was evident long ago. The cycle of pricier places competing for a smaller amount of richer and more fickle customers was inevitably going to end poorly. (Aided by the usurious rent-raising behavior of landlords trying to cash in on hot neighborhoods, which is a problem not unique to restaurants.) can anyone who currently lives there tell me if there even are any taquerias left on Valencia?
posted by ejs at 12:40 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
"I saw one story praising Justin [Severino]'s Morcilla, and how good it was. It wasn't opening for another two months."
Just last month, Vogue suggested that you eat at Kevin Sousa's new restaurant, Superior Motors. It's nowhere near to being open despite a successful kickstarter campaign.
posted by muddgirl at 12:40 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just last month, Vogue suggested that you eat at Kevin Sousa's new restaurant, Superior Motors. It's nowhere near to being open despite a successful kickstarter campaign.
posted by muddgirl at 12:40 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Flip side: There's never been a better time to learn how to cook. It's much better for you and for the planet. Plant power!
Just like independent department stores, book stores, hardware stores, and all sorts of other businesses, there's a Big Chain ready to move in, and they can do it cheaper and they don't care about ethics, employees, the community, etc.
As far as consumerism goes, it's nigh impossible to avoid, but it is possible to spend more, buy less, and avoid soulless big chains. (In most urban areas.) It's not easy, but it's possible. People do it.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just like independent department stores, book stores, hardware stores, and all sorts of other businesses, there's a Big Chain ready to move in, and they can do it cheaper and they don't care about ethics, employees, the community, etc.
As far as consumerism goes, it's nigh impossible to avoid, but it is possible to spend more, buy less, and avoid soulless big chains. (In most urban areas.) It's not easy, but it's possible. People do it.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:42 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Nonetheless, rent hikes are the devil the restaurant owner knows. The tricky part is figuring out how to survive when every other cost rises too. "
That is a key quote.
When your landlord raises your rent by 3 times, the problem is not wages. But it is only thing the restaurant owner can control, so that's what they complain about. I'm betting rent is a much, much higher percentage of the cost, so much so that wages are in the noise. But they can't tell the landlord "Our expenses are too high so we are going to lower the amount of rent we pay." So they grumble about minimum wage.
posted by eye of newt at 12:46 PM on January 4, 2017 [40 favorites]
That is a key quote.
When your landlord raises your rent by 3 times, the problem is not wages. But it is only thing the restaurant owner can control, so that's what they complain about. I'm betting rent is a much, much higher percentage of the cost, so much so that wages are in the noise. But they can't tell the landlord "Our expenses are too high so we are going to lower the amount of rent we pay." So they grumble about minimum wage.
posted by eye of newt at 12:46 PM on January 4, 2017 [40 favorites]
There's a special niche for independent restaurants, and they get a lot of pressure from the big chains. Just like independent department stores, book stores, hardware stores, and all sorts of other businesses, there's a Big Chain ready to move in, and they can do it cheaper and they don't care about ethics, employees, the community, etc.
I'm not entirely sure that the restaurants that are being mourned in this article are that invested in their communities. Or if that's why the author thinks they should be preserved. This from the article seems to suggest that the author is mourning something else that is being lost:
But that doesn't change the fact that the current owners and chefs who've poured all their savings and passion into restaurants open now will never be able to get that money and time back.
I feel enormous sympathy for those that have a vision and see that vision fail and lose massive sums of money in the process. But, if as the article suggests, they can only make money and succeed by paying terrible wages and not providing health insurance, I'm not willing to take exploitation of others as their right in the process.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm not entirely sure that the restaurants that are being mourned in this article are that invested in their communities. Or if that's why the author thinks they should be preserved. This from the article seems to suggest that the author is mourning something else that is being lost:
But that doesn't change the fact that the current owners and chefs who've poured all their savings and passion into restaurants open now will never be able to get that money and time back.
I feel enormous sympathy for those that have a vision and see that vision fail and lose massive sums of money in the process. But, if as the article suggests, they can only make money and succeed by paying terrible wages and not providing health insurance, I'm not willing to take exploitation of others as their right in the process.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:48 PM on January 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
I spent the last 5 years living in downtown Chicago near Wicker Park/Logan Square/Bucktown. I can certainly attest to this bubble, more restaurants than any other businesses came in during my time there. Ramen, tacos, tapas...name any food trend and Chicago jumps all over it.
posted by pizzakats708 at 12:52 PM on January 4, 2017
posted by pizzakats708 at 12:52 PM on January 4, 2017
Never mind the minimum wage increases and the health care requirements, if there are 7,600 restaurants in SF, that's one for every 110 people. That's a bubble. Do homes in San Francisco not have kitchens?
I think the real question is whether San Francisco is really the best data set from which to generalize. Most of the US is not under the same real estate pressure that SF is, and I doubt most cities have seen the same more-than-100% increase in restaurants over the past five years.
This is also an industry in which it's a mark of success to make it more than a year, and 80% don't last more than five years.
posted by me3dia at 12:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think the real question is whether San Francisco is really the best data set from which to generalize. Most of the US is not under the same real estate pressure that SF is, and I doubt most cities have seen the same more-than-100% increase in restaurants over the past five years.
This is also an industry in which it's a mark of success to make it more than a year, and 80% don't last more than five years.
posted by me3dia at 12:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Flip side: There's never been a better time to learn how to cook. It's much better for you and for the planet. Plant power!
Actually, there's a pretty good chance that a basic restaurant is much more energy and resource efficient than cooking at home. They get deliveries in bulk and cook in bulk.
posted by tavella at 12:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [51 favorites]
Actually, there's a pretty good chance that a basic restaurant is much more energy and resource efficient than cooking at home. They get deliveries in bulk and cook in bulk.
posted by tavella at 12:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [51 favorites]
I love that the image in the article has a restaurant called "Pig & Pestle". That "Noun & Noun" naming scheme is so overused. So far our city has had "Pig & Chicken", "Meat & Potatoes", "Butcher & The Rye", "Grit & Grace" and just recently "Pork & Beans".
posted by octothorpe at 1:01 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 1:01 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is also an industry in which it's a mark of success to make it more than a year
It is a difficult business that, for various reasons, seems to appeal to a lot of people who don't know much about running a business.
posted by thelonius at 1:02 PM on January 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
It is a difficult business that, for various reasons, seems to appeal to a lot of people who don't know much about running a business.
posted by thelonius at 1:02 PM on January 4, 2017 [21 favorites]
Have often wondered, give that 80% failure rate for five years, seriously how do restaurant projects attract investors?
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 1:03 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 1:03 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The bubble talk reminds me of this article.
"Dumb" money flows into restaurants because it seems cool and doable, ironically makes it so nobody can make any money. (I kind-of think this might be happening with craft breweries too)
Nashville has had a big, ongoing explosion of new restaurants and I've been thinking for a while that a reckoning is coming. Actually, a lot of the older restaurants have already been run out of business and now it seems like some of the newer ones are starting to get picked off too. It seems like the only people (maybe?) making money are the 3-4 "hospitality" groups that each own 5+ restaurants locally (Strategic Hospitality, Fresh Hosipitality, M Street, probably one or two more I don't know about). They're probably able to get favorable financing because of their size and maybe some benefits in food costs and staffing.
When your landlord raises your rent by 3 times, the problem is not wages. But it is only thing the restaurant owner can control, so that's what they complain about. I'm betting rent is a much, much higher percentage of the cost, so much so that wages are in the noise. But they can't tell the landlord "Our expenses are too high so we are going to lower the amount of rent we pay." So they grumble about minimum wage.
Yeah, there's a quote in the article I linked above “You can make money in this business, but not if you’re honest.” It's hard to screw your landlord but easy to steal wages from employees.
I really wonder how much different the US restaurant scene would be without tipping. It seems like, in high-ticket places at least, the (mostly white) servers are making a way outsized portion of the profits while all the (mostly brown) back of house people are making like $10/hr if that. If that price + tip was a single package with the additional money split in some way between owner / back of house / front of house, the whole thing might be more sustainable.
posted by ghharr at 1:03 PM on January 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Dumb" money flows into restaurants because it seems cool and doable, ironically makes it so nobody can make any money. (I kind-of think this might be happening with craft breweries too)
Nashville has had a big, ongoing explosion of new restaurants and I've been thinking for a while that a reckoning is coming. Actually, a lot of the older restaurants have already been run out of business and now it seems like some of the newer ones are starting to get picked off too. It seems like the only people (maybe?) making money are the 3-4 "hospitality" groups that each own 5+ restaurants locally (Strategic Hospitality, Fresh Hosipitality, M Street, probably one or two more I don't know about). They're probably able to get favorable financing because of their size and maybe some benefits in food costs and staffing.
When your landlord raises your rent by 3 times, the problem is not wages. But it is only thing the restaurant owner can control, so that's what they complain about. I'm betting rent is a much, much higher percentage of the cost, so much so that wages are in the noise. But they can't tell the landlord "Our expenses are too high so we are going to lower the amount of rent we pay." So they grumble about minimum wage.
Yeah, there's a quote in the article I linked above “You can make money in this business, but not if you’re honest.” It's hard to screw your landlord but easy to steal wages from employees.
I really wonder how much different the US restaurant scene would be without tipping. It seems like, in high-ticket places at least, the (mostly white) servers are making a way outsized portion of the profits while all the (mostly brown) back of house people are making like $10/hr if that. If that price + tip was a single package with the additional money split in some way between owner / back of house / front of house, the whole thing might be more sustainable.
posted by ghharr at 1:03 PM on January 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
That "Noun & Noun" naming scheme is so overused.
LOL, right?! Denver has "Work & Class," "Olive & Finch," "Guard & Grace," "Beast & Bottle,"....and I can't afford to eat at any of them.
posted by zeusianfog at 1:04 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
LOL, right?! Denver has "Work & Class," "Olive & Finch," "Guard & Grace," "Beast & Bottle,"....and I can't afford to eat at any of them.
posted by zeusianfog at 1:04 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
there's a Big Chain ready to move in, and they can do it cheaper and they don't care about ethics, employees, the community, etc.
Although, if anything, a corporate chain restaurant is more likely to offer better pay and benefits than your average mom & pop restaurant.
posted by gyc at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Although, if anything, a corporate chain restaurant is more likely to offer better pay and benefits than your average mom & pop restaurant.
posted by gyc at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
The article seemed to posit that chefs and restauranteurs are akin to artists following their passions, and if this were any other artistic field (music, painting, graphic design) I don't think anyone would be shocked that there's no money in it.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 1:05 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Have often wondered, give that 80% failure rate for five years, seriously how do restaurant projects attract investors?
Previously.
posted by Etrigan at 1:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Previously.
posted by Etrigan at 1:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Thanks to a layoff settlement from 22 years at a job she grew to hate, Mrs C went to chef school and has been a cook at a high-end catering place for 4 years now. A third the pay, but she's happy, finally.
Kitchen work is either the only job you can get (which means you're washing dishes), or you're there because you love it. Very few people get rich at it; and not that many make what most of us would consider a living.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Kitchen work is either the only job you can get (which means you're washing dishes), or you're there because you love it. Very few people get rich at it; and not that many make what most of us would consider a living.
posted by Artful Codger at 1:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Most of the blame lays at the feet of T. Bourdain and Company. Without his romanticization of long hours and low wages and terrible conditions offset by the rush and comraderie of suceeding likened to a great drug, young people would have never taken up cooking as a profession. The shine is starting to wear off for potential employees, and we are going to revert to the pre-foodie-centric times, where those that cooked did so mostly as a last resort.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 1:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's much better for you and for the planet.
Not arguing about the "better for you" part, but it's not really obvious why cooking at home necessarily ought to be better than eating out. That's really a function of the market most US restaurants are trying to serve (which is sort of a luxury good, even if some people are eating out all the time).
A well run kitchen serving 100, or better yet 1000, people at a time can take advantage of economies of scale, and can probably have less waste per meal served, than those same 100 people cooking for themselves at home. And there's a hell of a lot less packaging, less energy used to actually cook the food, less water used in dishwashing, much better use of leftovers, less spoilage... etc. Beating a person cooking for themselves at home is a pretty low bar, in terms of efficiency and ecological impact. But American-style restaurants aren't optimized for that, even close.
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias. They used to be pretty common across much of the South, but at least in my travels they seem to be dwindling. But they're a pretty nice model, and in some other parts of the world they're pretty popular.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [53 favorites]
Not arguing about the "better for you" part, but it's not really obvious why cooking at home necessarily ought to be better than eating out. That's really a function of the market most US restaurants are trying to serve (which is sort of a luxury good, even if some people are eating out all the time).
A well run kitchen serving 100, or better yet 1000, people at a time can take advantage of economies of scale, and can probably have less waste per meal served, than those same 100 people cooking for themselves at home. And there's a hell of a lot less packaging, less energy used to actually cook the food, less water used in dishwashing, much better use of leftovers, less spoilage... etc. Beating a person cooking for themselves at home is a pretty low bar, in terms of efficiency and ecological impact. But American-style restaurants aren't optimized for that, even close.
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias. They used to be pretty common across much of the South, but at least in my travels they seem to be dwindling. But they're a pretty nice model, and in some other parts of the world they're pretty popular.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [53 favorites]
I'm willing to buy the premise of the article, but could they have chosen a worse example? They seem like nice people, but AQ is (was) a restaurant with an ambitious cuisine, constantly changing decor, and presumably fairly high prices in a ridiculously expensive city with a notoriously overcrowded restaurant scene. Are the challenges they face the same things that faced my favorite recently-closed restaurant, a cheapo mom-and-pop Greek place in a suburban strip mall in the midwest (that nonetheless served great gyros)? If they are facing similar problems, why choose an example that's so hard to identify with? And if they're not the same, how are we to extrapolate from one to the other? Just off the top of my head, the biggest pressure on my ex-favorite spot and others like it would seem to be competition from national chains, not labor costs for full-time employees (full-time waiters, really?) or landlords raising rent. So maybe this article is really just about the bubble in pretentious urban foodie restaurants, in which case, I just don't really care. (But then, I'm the type of person that eats gyros at cheapo mom-and-pop Greek places in suburban strip malls in the midwest.)
posted by kevinbelt at 1:15 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 1:15 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
"There are not enough skilled hospitality workers to fill all of these restaurants. This has increased the cost for quality labor."
Oh, noooooo.... not that!!!! Very little mention of the increase in ingredient and supply costs and other rising expenses. The focus is all on the salaries paid to people that allows them to eat.
Restaurants have always had a high failure rate. Investors put their money into restaurants because they like the idea of being a restaurateur where someone else does all the work. And in the end, the top tier of successful restaurants will only last until the lease runs out at which point the landlord will raise the rent 3-5 times in search of a more wealthy tenant (or a greater fool).
The most successful restaurant owners turn their business into a real estate investment, ultimately buying a space with a dependable tenant (themselves), or leasing commercial space out to the next generation of greater fools.
posted by deanc at 1:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, noooooo.... not that!!!! Very little mention of the increase in ingredient and supply costs and other rising expenses. The focus is all on the salaries paid to people that allows them to eat.
Restaurants have always had a high failure rate. Investors put their money into restaurants because they like the idea of being a restaurateur where someone else does all the work. And in the end, the top tier of successful restaurants will only last until the lease runs out at which point the landlord will raise the rent 3-5 times in search of a more wealthy tenant (or a greater fool).
The most successful restaurant owners turn their business into a real estate investment, ultimately buying a space with a dependable tenant (themselves), or leasing commercial space out to the next generation of greater fools.
posted by deanc at 1:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
So maybe this article is really just about the bubble in pretentious urban foodie restaurants,
This series of three articles written by a Thrillist food critic is clearly and explicitly talking about that. There's no real mystery to it. Here's the first paragraph of the first article in the series:
This series of three articles written by a Thrillist food critic is clearly and explicitly talking about that. There's no real mystery to it. Here's the first paragraph of the first article in the series:
It's Thursday night in America's Hot New Food Town, and everyone wants to be in the mix. Friends text friends and hop in Ubers to meet on the cool street in the cool neighborhood, the one with the oyster bar with the craft cocktail program and that omakase place with the craft cocktail program and that indie movie theater that doesn't have a craft cocktail program, but is in an old warehouse.posted by muddgirl at 1:20 PM on January 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
" there were 3,600 restaurants in SF when it opened [five years ago], and now the SF Environmental Health Department puts that number at 7,600..
So maybe in a few years there will be only 80 percent more restaurants than there were 5 years ago? It's not exactly back to the dark ages of the 1990s.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
So maybe in a few years there will be only 80 percent more restaurants than there were 5 years ago? It's not exactly back to the dark ages of the 1990s.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias. They used to be pretty common across much of the South, but at least in my travels they seem to be dwindling
Pretty sure this niche is being taken up by Chinese Buffet restaurants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Pretty sure this niche is being taken up by Chinese Buffet restaurants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
less water used in dishwashing
The real cost for commercial dishwashing is energy. It's expensive to heat up water the the sanitation temps required by health agencies.
I got to see an energy audit for a coffee shop I worked for. With a big honking espresso machine, big coffee brewers, hot plates, banks of coolers, hot water taps for tea, an ice maker, the most expensive single energy user was the dishwasher. And it was only run maybe a dozen times a day, a mid-sized restaurant will do five times that.
posted by peeedro at 1:35 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
The real cost for commercial dishwashing is energy. It's expensive to heat up water the the sanitation temps required by health agencies.
I got to see an energy audit for a coffee shop I worked for. With a big honking espresso machine, big coffee brewers, hot plates, banks of coolers, hot water taps for tea, an ice maker, the most expensive single energy user was the dishwasher. And it was only run maybe a dozen times a day, a mid-sized restaurant will do five times that.
posted by peeedro at 1:35 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be honest, the problem they seem to be describing is that they're pushing a middle-class product at a time the demographic is becoming less stable, too much appeal to novelty, in an area that is extremely gentrified, and more important, a lot of "well, if they're successful, I can also be successful because I'm awesomer" ventures that in general are recipe to fuck everyone involved. If there's demand for x, and the supply is x*5 as it often seems to be the case, there won't be enough patrons to support everyone, and worse off, even the ones that were successful at the start eventually get thin enough to fall through the cracks.
But blaming the minimum wage is typical fuckyouigotmine-ism. If they can't afford to pay the staff for "their dream project", then stay the fuck home watching Gordon Ramsey on netflix or whatever.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:37 PM on January 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
But blaming the minimum wage is typical fuckyouigotmine-ism. If they can't afford to pay the staff for "their dream project", then stay the fuck home watching Gordon Ramsey on netflix or whatever.
posted by lmfsilva at 1:37 PM on January 4, 2017 [22 favorites]
But for a lot of people, the restaurant meal is healthier by far because we trust other people to make vegetables tasty in reasonable preparations.
My brother-in-law's a chef. Don't ever say this in his presence. He'll cut you (he always has a knife), and then say, "I'm a chef, not your f***ing doctor."
posted by philip-random at 1:39 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
My brother-in-law's a chef. Don't ever say this in his presence. He'll cut you (he always has a knife), and then say, "I'm a chef, not your f***ing doctor."
posted by philip-random at 1:39 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Most of the blame lays at the feet of T. Bourdain and Company. Without his romanticization of long hours and low wages and terrible conditions offset by the rush and comraderie of suceeding likened to a great drug
First, he was writing from his own personal experiences and not a outsider gilding the pig shit from outside.
Second, he was quite clear and upfront that its an industry that full of crooks, low-functioning sociopaths and fools and any sane person should find something else to do.
Third, you are giving him way to much credit for his influence.
Lastly, if you want to hold him to account, for what has been basically have been a bunch of fun travel shows, is giving airtime and platitudes to famous chefs well-known to be emotionally and physically abusive.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:47 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
First, he was writing from his own personal experiences and not a outsider gilding the pig shit from outside.
Second, he was quite clear and upfront that its an industry that full of crooks, low-functioning sociopaths and fools and any sane person should find something else to do.
Third, you are giving him way to much credit for his influence.
Lastly, if you want to hold him to account, for what has been basically have been a bunch of fun travel shows, is giving airtime and platitudes to famous chefs well-known to be emotionally and physically abusive.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 1:47 PM on January 4, 2017 [14 favorites]
Like agriculture, restaurants are heavily dependent on immigrant and even illegal labour. Close down that and the prices at restaurants, especially the low-to-mid range from Olive Gardens and and the Panda Expresses through to the nicer "date-night" and steakhouse chains, are going to go way up.
posted by bonehead at 1:48 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 1:48 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias.
There used to be Automats in many cities, though they're now closed. A chain called Eatsa has sprung up to fill the gap in the Bay Area. And, of course, there are fast-food restaurants and street vendors. People have always dined out, especially in cities where dwellings didn't always accommodate kitchens. That's why many places have a thriving street-food culture.
I really think that the bubble is in the trendy hipster restaurants, as noted above. There will always be eating away from home, but I think the idea that it's oh so hip, cool, and creative to own a restaurant is part of the "Do What You Love!" notion that has sprung up around work in general. And yes, this is something of a bubble in certain urban areas.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
There used to be Automats in many cities, though they're now closed. A chain called Eatsa has sprung up to fill the gap in the Bay Area. And, of course, there are fast-food restaurants and street vendors. People have always dined out, especially in cities where dwellings didn't always accommodate kitchens. That's why many places have a thriving street-food culture.
I really think that the bubble is in the trendy hipster restaurants, as noted above. There will always be eating away from home, but I think the idea that it's oh so hip, cool, and creative to own a restaurant is part of the "Do What You Love!" notion that has sprung up around work in general. And yes, this is something of a bubble in certain urban areas.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:49 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
> But for a lot of people, the restaurant meal is healthier by far because we trust other people to make vegetables tasty in reasonable preparations.
My wife and I are mostly vegetarian, so the problem we (especially I) have with a lot of restaurant meals is salt. Until I started looking into it a few years ago I had no idea how much freakin' salt goes into even a lot of the healthiest-seeming restaurant meals. That's a big part of why restaurant food - even low-fat meals that don't have any meat - tastes so good; delicious, unhealthy salt.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
My wife and I are mostly vegetarian, so the problem we (especially I) have with a lot of restaurant meals is salt. Until I started looking into it a few years ago I had no idea how much freakin' salt goes into even a lot of the healthiest-seeming restaurant meals. That's a big part of why restaurant food - even low-fat meals that don't have any meat - tastes so good; delicious, unhealthy salt.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:51 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
My mother trained in Paris as a chef. She does amazing things with food, I'm I'm eternally grateful for the skills I learned from her. But in her 70s, she's in an insane amount of pain, because of the punishing nature of the job. And even at her caliber, master chef running crews of chefs, sous, pastry, prep, planning menus and budgets and beating suppliers with sticks to run a Michelin star restaurant, the pay was pitiful given how much she gave to push out thousands of perfectly plated noms.
I love to cook. But having spent my formative years filling in for line cooks who got high and forgot to come to work again, there is nothing that could convince me to get in the line now.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I love to cook. But having spent my formative years filling in for line cooks who got high and forgot to come to work again, there is nothing that could convince me to get in the line now.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I remember reading an interview with (I think) Joel Hodgson, and he said that if he wasn't doing comedy, he wouldn't get into the restaurant business; He'd get into the restaurant supplies and equipment business.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
this sounds like an article that may have a "turns out" or two in it
posted by entropicamericana at 1:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:56 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I spent a little over a quarter of a century in bar and restaurant. In my experience, restaurants are far more of a pain in the ass. Smaller margins, higher labor costs, production complexity, equipment demands and inventory headaches. Give me a small, popular and profitable watering hole any day of the week...
posted by jim in austin at 2:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 2:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Semmelhack told me that in 2012 they paid $14,400 for health care costs. In 2015, they paid $86,400. That's an increase of $72K MORE per year than 2012, or 29% of their best year's profit.
Based on the hypothetical example in the article, their healthcare costs equate to an additional $3.50 per hour per employee. The healthcare rent is still too damn high, which probably explains why my town has a lot of struggling restaurants and a beautiful gleaming new hospital with empty waiting rooms (seriously nice though, like sitting in a hotel lobby complete with a mock fireplace)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Based on the hypothetical example in the article, their healthcare costs equate to an additional $3.50 per hour per employee. The healthcare rent is still too damn high, which probably explains why my town has a lot of struggling restaurants and a beautiful gleaming new hospital with empty waiting rooms (seriously nice though, like sitting in a hotel lobby complete with a mock fireplace)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's a big part of why restaurant food - even low-fat meals that don't have any meat - tastes so good; delicious, unhealthy salt. There's little evidence that salt is unhealthy - it's another one of those nutritional recommendations we've been given that has little basis in science.
posted by peacheater at 2:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 2:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [37 favorites]
Washingtonian magazine had an interesting District-specific look at this recently: Has DC Already Reached Peak Restaurant?
(We also have way too many ampersands: Smoked & Stacked, Ivy & Coney, Meats & Foods, Barrel & Crow, Barrel & Bushel, Fig & Olive, Crumbs & Whiskers, Villain & Saint, Stanton & Greene, Birch & Barley, Pineapple & Pearls.... )
posted by everybody had matching towels at 2:14 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
(We also have way too many ampersands: Smoked & Stacked, Ivy & Coney, Meats & Foods, Barrel & Crow, Barrel & Bushel, Fig & Olive, Crumbs & Whiskers, Villain & Saint, Stanton & Greene, Birch & Barley, Pineapple & Pearls.... )
posted by everybody had matching towels at 2:14 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's also not forget about the added expense of the new "disruptors"; Seamless, Grubhub (which is owned by Seamless), Uber Eats, Caviar, Maple, I think Amazon is getting into the act now as well.
This is maybe not as much of an issue with the type of place focused on in the article, but for any casual affordable restaurant that relies on delivery for a portion of it's revenue, the development of these 'services" is worse than greedy landlords.
Every time you place a delivery order through one of these websites, they get a minimum of 15% to 30% of the order total. Anyone who knows the restaurant business knows that right there went any profits you may have made and possibly more.
These websites that have inserted themselves as middlemen bully restaurants into paying premium rates to not be pushed back to page four of the search results, and they're so powerful in certain markets that if you're a restaurant that delivers and you don't use them you're invisible to 99% of your market.
It's an entirely new expense (and a large one at that) that just came out of thin air one day when some greedy ass innovator and their greedy ass investors figured out a way to leech money from legit service providing businesses.
posted by newpotato at 2:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
This is maybe not as much of an issue with the type of place focused on in the article, but for any casual affordable restaurant that relies on delivery for a portion of it's revenue, the development of these 'services" is worse than greedy landlords.
Every time you place a delivery order through one of these websites, they get a minimum of 15% to 30% of the order total. Anyone who knows the restaurant business knows that right there went any profits you may have made and possibly more.
These websites that have inserted themselves as middlemen bully restaurants into paying premium rates to not be pushed back to page four of the search results, and they're so powerful in certain markets that if you're a restaurant that delivers and you don't use them you're invisible to 99% of your market.
It's an entirely new expense (and a large one at that) that just came out of thin air one day when some greedy ass innovator and their greedy ass investors figured out a way to leech money from legit service providing businesses.
posted by newpotato at 2:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [19 favorites]
One problem with this article is that it doesn't fully address the fact that the restaurant in question had lost half of its customers in the same time period as its costs were going up. Presumably they could've stayed in business even with higher labor costs if the customers had kept coming.
posted by cell divide at 2:23 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cell divide at 2:23 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's an entirely new expense (and a large one at that) that just came out of thin air one day when some greedy ass innovator and their greedy ass investors figured out a way to leech money from legit service providing businesses.
And exploit marginalized gig-economy workers simultaneously! I've seen enough dispirited-looking Postmates runners picking up a single sandwich from the nearby banh mi place to swear off ever using one of these predatory rent-seeking middleman services (although I will grant that on-demand delivery could be a life-saver to mobility-limited or disabled folks).
posted by Existential Dread at 2:28 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
And exploit marginalized gig-economy workers simultaneously! I've seen enough dispirited-looking Postmates runners picking up a single sandwich from the nearby banh mi place to swear off ever using one of these predatory rent-seeking middleman services (although I will grant that on-demand delivery could be a life-saver to mobility-limited or disabled folks).
posted by Existential Dread at 2:28 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
My new restaurant will be called Ampers & Ampersand
posted by ian1977 at 2:32 PM on January 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:32 PM on January 4, 2017 [63 favorites]
Why not just Ampers & Overkill?
posted by me3dia at 2:38 PM on January 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by me3dia at 2:38 PM on January 4, 2017 [16 favorites]
These Ampersands Go to 11
posted by AndrewInDC at 2:51 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by AndrewInDC at 2:51 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
"I don't have a solution for it, but that does seem to be a squeeze point that is more driven by greed than economic justice."
The solution for it is increased density and Georgist land-taxes on rent seekers, which is exactly the opposite of what Ed Lee and Co. want for SF.
posted by klangklangston at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
The solution for it is increased density and Georgist land-taxes on rent seekers, which is exactly the opposite of what Ed Lee and Co. want for SF.
posted by klangklangston at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ampersandwich
posted by ian1977 at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 2:57 PM on January 4, 2017 [18 favorites]
Hmm. Not quite sure how one figures that eating out is cheaper than cooking at home. It's certainly not ever been the case for my family, otherwise we would have gone out more. Sure, some kinds of food would be crazy to cook at home. Indian, for example. All those spices! But I don't even want to know what the caloric count of an Indian restaurant would be. Ghee, ghee, and more ghee!
posted by kozad at 2:59 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kozad at 2:59 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias. They used to be pretty common across much of the South, but at least in my travels they seem to be dwindling.
I used to luuurve going for brunch at Future Bakery in the Annex. Mashed potatoes with gravy, bowl of borscht and a coffee, for probably less than a coffee at Starbucks today. Oh well, I guess we'll always have Ikea.
posted by rodlymight at 2:59 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I used to luuurve going for brunch at Future Bakery in the Annex. Mashed potatoes with gravy, bowl of borscht and a coffee, for probably less than a coffee at Starbucks today. Oh well, I guess we'll always have Ikea.
posted by rodlymight at 2:59 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I used to luuurve going for brunch at Future Bakery in the Annex.
Umm...it's still there. I like the french toast.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:02 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Umm...it's still there. I like the french toast.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:02 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like there are two, completely different uses of restaurants:
1.A place to enjoy good food and good service with friends, to relax, to explore - a form of recreation and entertainment. This is the kind of thing that restaurant people are always talking about, and I am perfectly happy to pay more for this, though I only do it occassionally.
2.A place to get food when I am hungry and too busy (or have been away from home too long) to cook for myself. All I need from these places are filling, ideally semi-healthy and hopefully tasty (but not impressive) food that will keep my stomach from trying to gnaw through my backbone. I don't need service, I don't need panache (that's what hot sauce is for), I don't need originallity. A place to sit down to eat said food is nice but not essential.
The first kind is a luxury - I enjoy it, but I can live without it. But the second is an essential: people are animals who need food every 3-6 hours, and some of us are far from our own food caches most of the day. I'm frequently at work over both lunch and dinner times, and there is only much food I can pack and carry with me - and I can only afford to spend a certain amount on food to keep me going. (And, until recently, I didn't even work somewhere I could store anything, not even in a locker. I had to carry everything for the day on my person).
I know I won't starve, going 12 or 16 hours without food - but I would be certainly very cranky and very unproductive.
Maybe we should come up with a different name for the second - not restaurant but "for-profit soup kitchen".
posted by jb at 3:04 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
1.A place to enjoy good food and good service with friends, to relax, to explore - a form of recreation and entertainment. This is the kind of thing that restaurant people are always talking about, and I am perfectly happy to pay more for this, though I only do it occassionally.
2.A place to get food when I am hungry and too busy (or have been away from home too long) to cook for myself. All I need from these places are filling, ideally semi-healthy and hopefully tasty (but not impressive) food that will keep my stomach from trying to gnaw through my backbone. I don't need service, I don't need panache (that's what hot sauce is for), I don't need originallity. A place to sit down to eat said food is nice but not essential.
The first kind is a luxury - I enjoy it, but I can live without it. But the second is an essential: people are animals who need food every 3-6 hours, and some of us are far from our own food caches most of the day. I'm frequently at work over both lunch and dinner times, and there is only much food I can pack and carry with me - and I can only afford to spend a certain amount on food to keep me going. (And, until recently, I didn't even work somewhere I could store anything, not even in a locker. I had to carry everything for the day on my person).
I know I won't starve, going 12 or 16 hours without food - but I would be certainly very cranky and very unproductive.
Maybe we should come up with a different name for the second - not restaurant but "for-profit soup kitchen".
posted by jb at 3:04 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
In my more outwardly radical moments I say that the US food service industries relies on so much wage theft, time theft, book cooking, money laundering, criminality, cruelty, and outright slavery that it just shouldn't exist. Or at least have competition from some state subsusised cafeteria/food delivery/kitchen shop system.
Plus also just, eating out has become unsustainably expensive in major US cirities due to skyrocketing rent and creeping costs, not cause people are making bank or wages are skyrocketing. It's the worst of both worlds, no one can afford anything and no one is making anything (except, of course, landowners).
Someone asked me recently how bad could it possibly get and using just numbers on hand I could easily see the collapse of three major industries all at once with the planned phase out of another leading to widespread famine.
posted by The Whelk at 3:09 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Plus also just, eating out has become unsustainably expensive in major US cirities due to skyrocketing rent and creeping costs, not cause people are making bank or wages are skyrocketing. It's the worst of both worlds, no one can afford anything and no one is making anything (except, of course, landowners).
Someone asked me recently how bad could it possibly get and using just numbers on hand I could easily see the collapse of three major industries all at once with the planned phase out of another leading to widespread famine.
posted by The Whelk at 3:09 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
AQ isn't alone in the Mid-Market Massacre. Lulu shut down suddenly after 24 years on NYE.
Data point: I'm leaving brick & mortar restaurant bartending to go back to event catering/music festivals. Minimum wage in SF is $13/hr + tips. And I can get better hours at a better rate managing wedding crews, corporate office parties, & beer gardens.
But yeah, the economic pressures described this series resonate w my experience over the last 3 years. I fucking love bartending. I love mixology & cocktails & tiki & the show and the glory & I got rent due. Oakland used to be the place you moved to when SC became in affordable. Now Richmond is where you move when prices out of Oakland.
And I ain't moving to Richmond.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:11 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Data point: I'm leaving brick & mortar restaurant bartending to go back to event catering/music festivals. Minimum wage in SF is $13/hr + tips. And I can get better hours at a better rate managing wedding crews, corporate office parties, & beer gardens.
But yeah, the economic pressures described this series resonate w my experience over the last 3 years. I fucking love bartending. I love mixology & cocktails & tiki & the show and the glory & I got rent due. Oakland used to be the place you moved to when SC became in affordable. Now Richmond is where you move when prices out of Oakland.
And I ain't moving to Richmond.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:11 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
My area doesn't seem to have very many of the Ampersand names. We have names of the type: initial initial clever surname. For example T J McBeef or B J Osaka. It's amazing where fads can show up.
posted by ambulocetus at 3:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ambulocetus at 3:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Presumably they could've stayed in business even with higher labor costs if the customers had kept coming.
But I think the real answer here is that they are having to raise prices, and that's one thing that is reducing the customers. When even your mediocre quality restaurant is charging 12$ for a burger, it doesn't make a lot of sense to eat there.
posted by corb at 3:22 PM on January 4, 2017
But I think the real answer here is that they are having to raise prices, and that's one thing that is reducing the customers. When even your mediocre quality restaurant is charging 12$ for a burger, it doesn't make a lot of sense to eat there.
posted by corb at 3:22 PM on January 4, 2017
There is no discussion of the obnoxious trust funders who come into up-and-coming cities or neighborhoods, open a trendy joint for the kicks based on whatever local economy is booming at the time, intentionally close it within a year (leaving their staff and suppliers high and dry and a huge empty lot in an otherwise thriving area) and repeat this in a pattern until people refuse to work for them and/or they are chased out. These sorts have basically ripped through Louisville more than a few times when the whole hip, Southern roots cooking was at its peak. And this may not be a huge deal in much larger cities like Chicago or SF, but it leaves a larger, noticeable hole in the face of the local economy and causes many people, in cities where staying true to the local economy and culture is a practically part of your personal identity, to become suspicious of new places rather than curious.
posted by Young Kullervo at 3:25 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Young Kullervo at 3:25 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aw, I had many a fun work lunch at Lulu when I used to work in SoMa. And La Rondalla closed too?? Insert Darth Vader Nooo gif here.
posted by ejs at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2017
posted by ejs at 3:32 PM on January 4, 2017
As far as I can tell, people are still going out to eat.
In Taiwan there's night markets in every city that have dozens of food stands selling everything from bubble tea to steak to naan bread. I've always wondered why a highly urbanized society like the US can't have something similar. There is a "night market" that opens 2 or 3 times in the summer at the local fairgrounds, but it's mostly gourmet or stunt food fair. The only other close thing are the food carts in hispanic neighborhoods (which oddly enough are beginning to get gentrified by the exact kind of restaurants the article is writing about), but there's not enough of them to be like a "market" where you gather at. The food truck thing a few years back also came close, but I think that bubble has burst and their prices are still higher than I'd like.
So yes, I agree there will always be people eating stuff they didn't cook. Maybe it won't be food stands but be like Uber or AirBnB, where there's basically an app where you can pay a price or subscription fee to go to someone's house to eat a meal.
posted by FJT at 3:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
In Taiwan there's night markets in every city that have dozens of food stands selling everything from bubble tea to steak to naan bread. I've always wondered why a highly urbanized society like the US can't have something similar. There is a "night market" that opens 2 or 3 times in the summer at the local fairgrounds, but it's mostly gourmet or stunt food fair. The only other close thing are the food carts in hispanic neighborhoods (which oddly enough are beginning to get gentrified by the exact kind of restaurants the article is writing about), but there's not enough of them to be like a "market" where you gather at. The food truck thing a few years back also came close, but I think that bubble has burst and their prices are still higher than I'd like.
So yes, I agree there will always be people eating stuff they didn't cook. Maybe it won't be food stands but be like Uber or AirBnB, where there's basically an app where you can pay a price or subscription fee to go to someone's house to eat a meal.
posted by FJT at 3:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
It doesn't seem like there's a big swell of new THIS & THAT resto names in Boston, but just today there was a new place in Harvard Square announced called "&pizza". Apparently it's a chain from DC, so maybe the tide is on the way.
posted by briank at 3:51 PM on January 4, 2017
posted by briank at 3:51 PM on January 4, 2017
I think that Uber and Lyft will have an impact on the restaurant industry, combined with ordering and paying online. Delivery options made pizza famous and the vast majority of restaurants had no way to offer complete menus, pre-payment and delivery until now.
posted by Brian B. at 3:52 PM on January 4, 2017
posted by Brian B. at 3:52 PM on January 4, 2017
Restaurants succeed by predictability (repeat customers), a steady custom of soup and salad eaters (margin) and/or steak diners (gross), and at least 20 hours a week of a HOPPING bar (gross and margin).
A restaurant whose name literally promises unpredictability of offerings and price, and whose chef talks about produce that isn't going into Caesar-salad-dressing-on-the-side ... doomed.
posted by MattD at 3:54 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
A restaurant whose name literally promises unpredictability of offerings and price, and whose chef talks about produce that isn't going into Caesar-salad-dressing-on-the-side ... doomed.
posted by MattD at 3:54 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
(That last gig economy idea I had was terrible, I hope it never happens actually)
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias
Yes, for the longest time I wondered why no US business has attempted to do what college campus dining commons have done forever: Have a cafeteria style restaurant that sells 3 or 6 month meal plans to folks, either based on "swipes" or a set monthly fee.
posted by FJT at 3:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
What we don't have, at least in much of the US, are inexpensive cafeterias
Yes, for the longest time I wondered why no US business has attempted to do what college campus dining commons have done forever: Have a cafeteria style restaurant that sells 3 or 6 month meal plans to folks, either based on "swipes" or a set monthly fee.
posted by FJT at 3:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've always wondered why a highly urbanized society like the US can't have something similar.
Food trucks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Food trucks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Food trucks can be expensive as fuck, at least here, and a rapidly becoming "gourmet" and out of touch. They're operating like convenience food but they're really more novelty than anything for most. I can't afford 15 bucks a day for lunch every day and honestly sometimes I don't really want a buffalo hotdog with truffle aoli. Or a lobster roll.
posted by Young Kullervo at 4:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Young Kullervo at 4:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
No matter what happens, we'll know we're still OK as long as the Waffle House is still open.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:17 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 4:17 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Food trucks.
Hmm, I started thinking of why the two aren't the same and it kind of hit me, and it was kind of literally staring me in the face since I've been watching a lot street food/night market YouTubes. There's a visual and performative aspect to night market food stands that food trucks lack. At night markets the food is always on display and almost always cooked or put together right in front of you. That is, when you order a sweet pancake wrap someone cooks and puts it together right in front of you. I've eaten at a lot of food trucks and I have never seen that happen (both gourmet and the ones that drive up to the office complex), because the kitchen in a food truck is always covered and 4 feet off the ground. A similar thing happens with fair food stands too, after you order you just wait for the finished product.
posted by FJT at 4:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmm, I started thinking of why the two aren't the same and it kind of hit me, and it was kind of literally staring me in the face since I've been watching a lot street food/night market YouTubes. There's a visual and performative aspect to night market food stands that food trucks lack. At night markets the food is always on display and almost always cooked or put together right in front of you. That is, when you order a sweet pancake wrap someone cooks and puts it together right in front of you. I've eaten at a lot of food trucks and I have never seen that happen (both gourmet and the ones that drive up to the office complex), because the kitchen in a food truck is always covered and 4 feet off the ground. A similar thing happens with fair food stands too, after you order you just wait for the finished product.
posted by FJT at 4:22 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Where I lived in the US, there were food carts that did well for filling food, especially the cheap Burrito the size of your head. (Also made in front of you, but - of course - from preprepared and cooked ingredients).
But in Toronto, new food trucks are much too fancy for me. I do best at falafel shops and the Grange food court with it's $5 lunch combos.
posted by jb at 4:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
But in Toronto, new food trucks are much too fancy for me. I do best at falafel shops and the Grange food court with it's $5 lunch combos.
posted by jb at 4:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
There's a visual and performative aspect to night market food stands that food trucks lack.
There's something far more basic in play than that - most US "urbanized areas" are still cities with a large population in close suburbs, and US cities tend to sprawl and have virtually useless public transportation. If I'm gonna get in my car and drive somewhere to eat, (especially after work or at lunch), I'm gonna go home where there's already food, to the grocery store, or to a restaurant where I can sit down. The whole appeal of food trucks in the US is that they do the driving, so a downtown office worker can get something new and interesting just by going out on the street, or a suburbanite can do the same at a small arts festival and such-like.
"Night market" food stand areas might be the next big thing - for the last couple of years a group of entrepreneurs has been organizing a night market once a month in the summer here in Cleveland. It's done really well, jammed with people every time and they're trying to expand as fast as they can, and I'm pretty sure the organizers got the idea from similar things in other US cities rather than directly from Taiwan or other Asian cities.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:46 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's something far more basic in play than that - most US "urbanized areas" are still cities with a large population in close suburbs, and US cities tend to sprawl and have virtually useless public transportation. If I'm gonna get in my car and drive somewhere to eat, (especially after work or at lunch), I'm gonna go home where there's already food, to the grocery store, or to a restaurant where I can sit down. The whole appeal of food trucks in the US is that they do the driving, so a downtown office worker can get something new and interesting just by going out on the street, or a suburbanite can do the same at a small arts festival and such-like.
"Night market" food stand areas might be the next big thing - for the last couple of years a group of entrepreneurs has been organizing a night market once a month in the summer here in Cleveland. It's done really well, jammed with people every time and they're trying to expand as fast as they can, and I'm pretty sure the organizers got the idea from similar things in other US cities rather than directly from Taiwan or other Asian cities.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:46 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
From TFA: And Pok Pok kingmaker Andy Ricker closed his noodle joint Sen Yai, citing "soaring rents, the rising minimum wage, and stereotypical ideas about 'ethnic food' as 'cheap food'" in an interview with Portland Monthly.
Gah, this is such bullshit. Sen Yai didn't do well because it was decidedly meh. I know Yelp's not reliable in any way, but Sen Yai had 3 stars there, and it was deserved. The food was okay, but decidedly mediocre in a city that already has tons of Thai options (including at least three run by Ricker). The service was also lacking, but acceptable. The real problem was that Ricker wanted $10-13 for a noodle bowl when other local Thai joints want $8-10 for better ones. Ricker's name alone isn't worth two more dollars.
Blaming rent, wage and stereotypical ideas about the price of ethnic food ignores the fact that there are a lot of excellent Thai places in Portland, including Ricker's other ventures. But Sen Yai wasn't one of them. I think if anything, articles like this show the absolute arrogance of some of these restaurant owners. The only people that seemed to not get the blame in the article was them.
Later in TFA: Across the nation, restaurants like AQ -- chef-driven, ambitious, fine-casual dining spaces that straddle the gap between neighborhood fixtures and destinations -- are the ones closing their doors most quickly, mainly for a reason above: labor costs.
Or maybe not all of these restaurants are quite as good as their owners and worshipers seem to think. At no point during the article was that possibility even considered.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 5:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Gah, this is such bullshit. Sen Yai didn't do well because it was decidedly meh. I know Yelp's not reliable in any way, but Sen Yai had 3 stars there, and it was deserved. The food was okay, but decidedly mediocre in a city that already has tons of Thai options (including at least three run by Ricker). The service was also lacking, but acceptable. The real problem was that Ricker wanted $10-13 for a noodle bowl when other local Thai joints want $8-10 for better ones. Ricker's name alone isn't worth two more dollars.
Blaming rent, wage and stereotypical ideas about the price of ethnic food ignores the fact that there are a lot of excellent Thai places in Portland, including Ricker's other ventures. But Sen Yai wasn't one of them. I think if anything, articles like this show the absolute arrogance of some of these restaurant owners. The only people that seemed to not get the blame in the article was them.
Later in TFA: Across the nation, restaurants like AQ -- chef-driven, ambitious, fine-casual dining spaces that straddle the gap between neighborhood fixtures and destinations -- are the ones closing their doors most quickly, mainly for a reason above: labor costs.
Or maybe not all of these restaurants are quite as good as their owners and worshipers seem to think. At no point during the article was that possibility even considered.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 5:07 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, for the longest time I wondered why no US business has attempted to do what college campus dining commons have done forever: Have a cafeteria style restaurant that sells 3 or 6 month meal plans to folks, either based on "swipes" or a set monthly fee.
Where cheap cafeterias do exist in the U.S., at least in a lot of places, is as part of a church.
posted by AndrewInDC at 5:14 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Where cheap cafeterias do exist in the U.S., at least in a lot of places, is as part of a church.
posted by AndrewInDC at 5:14 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Weird parts of the article aside, I do think there is a restaurant bubble here in Louisville. It's not even that big of a city, but there are so, so, so many restaurants, that I don't know if I'll ever be close to trying them all. (It helps that I also can't afford to.) It has always felt funny to me, though: the median income here is very low -- this area of the country has a very low cost of living, but also some of the lowest salaries in the country -- and yet the restaurants are still priced basically the same as anywhere else. I know a lot of people go out to eat and spend huge portions of their salaries on food, but I can't help but think all these new restaurants are bound to fail because the economy simply can't support that many in the long run.
Also hot chicken became a thing here like, 9 months ago, and already there are at least 4 restaurants specializing in hot chicken. This is not going to last.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:17 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also hot chicken became a thing here like, 9 months ago, and already there are at least 4 restaurants specializing in hot chicken. This is not going to last.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:17 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
In my more outwardly radical moments I say that the US food service industries relies on so much wage theft, time theft, book cooking, money laundering, criminality, cruelty, and outright slavery that it just shouldn't exist. Or at least have competition from some state subsusised cafeteria/food delivery/kitchen shop system.
I finally got out of the business after 12 years and I found myself saying exactly this to my brother just the other day.
posted by STFUDonnie at 5:24 PM on January 4, 2017
I finally got out of the business after 12 years and I found myself saying exactly this to my brother just the other day.
posted by STFUDonnie at 5:24 PM on January 4, 2017
Yeah it is amazing sometimes how quickly a new trend will spread. There *might* have been a Poke restaurant or two in LA a few years ago, but there are now 3 in walking distance from my house, and a crazy amount in LA in general. Two of the 3 near me are next door to each other (!!!).
posted by thefoxgod at 5:25 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 5:25 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Umm...it's still there. I like the french toast.
Ah but I'm not. Good to hear it's still going, though. Might visit sometime.
posted by rodlymight at 5:37 PM on January 4, 2017
Ah but I'm not. Good to hear it's still going, though. Might visit sometime.
posted by rodlymight at 5:37 PM on January 4, 2017
..
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:28 PM on January 4, 2017
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:28 PM on January 4, 2017
I remember a lot of restaurants opening in the late 90s, after several years of post-80s stagnation and at that time, it was basically a bunch of people leveraging the last of their last resources to buy themselves a job. The whole industry seems pretty fucked up to me.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:29 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:29 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
At night markets the food is always on display and almost always cooked or put together right in front of you.
Most "prep and insta-serve" food options violate various US health codes. Food trucks are expensive because of those codes, not because of the cost of a truck; they have to follow restaurant-quality cleanliness standards, or at least have the equipment to be able to. Cook & prepare in front of you is difficult - if there's a fire, what's it made in? What's the fuel? What temperature is the meat being cooked to? If it's going into a wrap, where's that being stored? Are the server's hands clean enough?
But hey! If Cheeto Voldemort gets his way, we'll be mass-repealing lots of annoying regulations that stop businesses from getting ahead! ...And that'll last until rich white tourists start coming down with diseases that the local dark-skinned people don't catch because they've built up an immunity to those bugs. (Not that that's the only direction the problems go, but that's the dynamic that will cause new laws to be made.)
If the hip new restaurants start shutting down, we may see a rise in street food, but the licensing and health code requirements will keep them at the gentrified tourist level, out of the blue-collar lunch/early dinner price range.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
Most "prep and insta-serve" food options violate various US health codes. Food trucks are expensive because of those codes, not because of the cost of a truck; they have to follow restaurant-quality cleanliness standards, or at least have the equipment to be able to. Cook & prepare in front of you is difficult - if there's a fire, what's it made in? What's the fuel? What temperature is the meat being cooked to? If it's going into a wrap, where's that being stored? Are the server's hands clean enough?
But hey! If Cheeto Voldemort gets his way, we'll be mass-repealing lots of annoying regulations that stop businesses from getting ahead! ...And that'll last until rich white tourists start coming down with diseases that the local dark-skinned people don't catch because they've built up an immunity to those bugs. (Not that that's the only direction the problems go, but that's the dynamic that will cause new laws to be made.)
If the hip new restaurants start shutting down, we may see a rise in street food, but the licensing and health code requirements will keep them at the gentrified tourist level, out of the blue-collar lunch/early dinner price range.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:33 PM on January 4, 2017 [5 favorites]
There are no political agendas here -- they're just genuinely worried about how to afford to pay extra
I LOLed.
posted by RogerB at 6:45 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I LOLed.
posted by RogerB at 6:45 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
"This series of three articles written by a Thrillist food critic is clearly and explicitly talking about that. There's no real mystery to it."
So, trendy consumerist fad is no longer trendy. No real mystery indeed. Does Thrillist have a Silly Bandz critic? I'd love to hear his take on that market.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:52 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, trendy consumerist fad is no longer trendy. No real mystery indeed. Does Thrillist have a Silly Bandz critic? I'd love to hear his take on that market.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:52 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
The restaurant business has always been brutal and the failure rate has always been ginormous it's just that way too many people plunk down massive sums of money developing mid-market restaurant concepts when the aggregate demand simple can't support them.
I've always understood that if you can generate a 10% margin you are doing very good as a restaurant, assume rent is 30%, wages is 30%, and food costs are 30%. If your per plate average is $20 you better be spending no more than $6 of that on food costs for instance. Alcohol sales can typically net you a better margin but unless you have a well stocked full service bar and all the expenses related to that alcohol sales can only do so much good. Obviously in some locations like LA, SF and NY your rents are quite likely to be more than 30% but either that increases comes out of your profit or you have to cut costs in other ways (wages or food costs).
The problem of course is that if you are charge $20 a plate you better not be trying to put sysco pre-prep on the plate. And if your claim to fame is locally-grown, artisanal whatever trying to scale back your food costs can lose you all sorts of business. So the typical solution has always been to abuse the workforce in an attempt to keep labor costs "reasonable". But the reality is that a glut of restaurants mean that quality line cooks are not as cheap as they once were and back of house employees are less willing to be exploited.
In many ways this is a good thing. We shouldn't be depending on artificially low wages to subsidize our dining. We also shouldn't be hiding the true cost of our food behind an expectation that everyone will tip 20-25% which is more or less the norm these days.
However in the short term this is going to require a massive course correction in how restaurant owners approach opening a restaurant. Going in with a multi-million dollar concept restaurant basically needs to be a damn near sure thing and even then you are probably going to need to re-concept a couple of times a decade to match trends. If you don't have that sort of resources backing you you should probably aim your sights a bit lower. I think restaurant owners in the really awful rental markets are probably fucked no matter what but owning a restaurant has always been an excellent way of losing a lot of money really really fast. Considering the average ROI on the best run restaurants is still pretty bad I think the best advice to prospective restaurant owners is don't.
posted by vuron at 7:09 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've always understood that if you can generate a 10% margin you are doing very good as a restaurant, assume rent is 30%, wages is 30%, and food costs are 30%. If your per plate average is $20 you better be spending no more than $6 of that on food costs for instance. Alcohol sales can typically net you a better margin but unless you have a well stocked full service bar and all the expenses related to that alcohol sales can only do so much good. Obviously in some locations like LA, SF and NY your rents are quite likely to be more than 30% but either that increases comes out of your profit or you have to cut costs in other ways (wages or food costs).
The problem of course is that if you are charge $20 a plate you better not be trying to put sysco pre-prep on the plate. And if your claim to fame is locally-grown, artisanal whatever trying to scale back your food costs can lose you all sorts of business. So the typical solution has always been to abuse the workforce in an attempt to keep labor costs "reasonable". But the reality is that a glut of restaurants mean that quality line cooks are not as cheap as they once were and back of house employees are less willing to be exploited.
In many ways this is a good thing. We shouldn't be depending on artificially low wages to subsidize our dining. We also shouldn't be hiding the true cost of our food behind an expectation that everyone will tip 20-25% which is more or less the norm these days.
However in the short term this is going to require a massive course correction in how restaurant owners approach opening a restaurant. Going in with a multi-million dollar concept restaurant basically needs to be a damn near sure thing and even then you are probably going to need to re-concept a couple of times a decade to match trends. If you don't have that sort of resources backing you you should probably aim your sights a bit lower. I think restaurant owners in the really awful rental markets are probably fucked no matter what but owning a restaurant has always been an excellent way of losing a lot of money really really fast. Considering the average ROI on the best run restaurants is still pretty bad I think the best advice to prospective restaurant owners is don't.
posted by vuron at 7:09 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hate this whole "blame the workers" for putting restaurants out of business. It makes no sense -- ALL restaurants are dealing with the exact same wage structure, it's not like your competition has some secret source of cooks who work for below minimum wage. Labor costs are increasing, because the labor market is very tight in almost every major urban area, which is where restaurants operate... that's a GOOD thing.
It's a business, not an art. Business isn't fair and you shouldn't expect it to be. No one's whining that it's impossible to run a profitable shoe-shine parlor or haberdashery in this day and age.
posted by miyabo at 7:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a business, not an art. Business isn't fair and you shouldn't expect it to be. No one's whining that it's impossible to run a profitable shoe-shine parlor or haberdashery in this day and age.
posted by miyabo at 7:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can we back up to the notion of restaurant food being healthy?
Unless you are specifically going to a health food restaurant, it surely is not. The reason restaurant food tastes so deliciously superior to what you cook at home is because professional kitchens do not shy away from fat (butter, ghee, oil of all kinds), salt and sugar. None of those things are bad in moderation and all the chefs I've known will tell you to fuck off with your whiny health concerns because they just want to make some delicious shit, and rightly so because that is their job. Unless you are bathing in ghee in your home kitchen, eating out is not healthier.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Unless you are specifically going to a health food restaurant, it surely is not. The reason restaurant food tastes so deliciously superior to what you cook at home is because professional kitchens do not shy away from fat (butter, ghee, oil of all kinds), salt and sugar. None of those things are bad in moderation and all the chefs I've known will tell you to fuck off with your whiny health concerns because they just want to make some delicious shit, and rightly so because that is their job. Unless you are bathing in ghee in your home kitchen, eating out is not healthier.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
This article offers nothing in the way of statistical evidence to back up its claim of an industry-wide trend, and as such, it's nearly worthless as a piece of journalism. However, one note did ring true.
It is no longer impressive that things are local, farm-sourced, and handmade -- it's expected. But, as Cullen explains, the rise of the Golden Age "scratch kitchen" (in which everything is made in-house), long a point of pride for fine-dining kitchens, isn't usually financially realistic in the more casual kitchens.
There does seem to be a glut of restaurants that really expect me to care that their ingredients are organic, local, seasonal, or made in-house. And what can I say? I really just fucking don't. All I want is a good meal. And it's kinda hilarious how replaceable these restaurants are. The wooden interiors. The $14 cocktails. The cuisine that can only be described as "Contemporary American", which basically means "fancy, non-ethnic." And of course, they're all ridiculously overpriced. All those long-winded descriptions on the menus. You're basically paying by the adjective.
Now, some of these places serve good meals, because they're good restaurants with good cooks. But that doesn't change the fact that they're charging me a lot of money for something I don't really care about. If I had a choice between a pay-by-the-adjective Contemporary American restaurant and a cheaper one nextdoor that served the same dishes but used normal ingredients, I'd choose the cheaper one any day of the week.
posted by panama joe at 7:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
It is no longer impressive that things are local, farm-sourced, and handmade -- it's expected. But, as Cullen explains, the rise of the Golden Age "scratch kitchen" (in which everything is made in-house), long a point of pride for fine-dining kitchens, isn't usually financially realistic in the more casual kitchens.
There does seem to be a glut of restaurants that really expect me to care that their ingredients are organic, local, seasonal, or made in-house. And what can I say? I really just fucking don't. All I want is a good meal. And it's kinda hilarious how replaceable these restaurants are. The wooden interiors. The $14 cocktails. The cuisine that can only be described as "Contemporary American", which basically means "fancy, non-ethnic." And of course, they're all ridiculously overpriced. All those long-winded descriptions on the menus. You're basically paying by the adjective.
Now, some of these places serve good meals, because they're good restaurants with good cooks. But that doesn't change the fact that they're charging me a lot of money for something I don't really care about. If I had a choice between a pay-by-the-adjective Contemporary American restaurant and a cheaper one nextdoor that served the same dishes but used normal ingredients, I'd choose the cheaper one any day of the week.
posted by panama joe at 7:55 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Unless you are bathing in ghee in your home kitchen, eating out is not healthier.
As a matter of fact I do bathe in ghee in my home kitchen, at least in that it's my standard cooking fat of choice. The day I decided to ignore the conventional wisdom about fat and salt was more than ten years ago now and I haven't regretted it a bit and feel healthier than ever. I think our notions of what is healthy need serious recalibration. I do agree about the sugar though.
posted by peacheater at 8:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
As a matter of fact I do bathe in ghee in my home kitchen, at least in that it's my standard cooking fat of choice. The day I decided to ignore the conventional wisdom about fat and salt was more than ten years ago now and I haven't regretted it a bit and feel healthier than ever. I think our notions of what is healthy need serious recalibration. I do agree about the sugar though.
posted by peacheater at 8:08 PM on January 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, I can't believe nobody's linked The Brooklyn Bar Menu Generator yet.
posted by panama joe at 8:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 8:16 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
And, you know, in general I'm just gonna call bullshit on the whole "foodie" thing. Cooking? That's a hobby. Gardening? That's a hobby. Eating? Not a hobby.
posted by panama joe at 8:21 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by panama joe at 8:21 PM on January 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
No one's whining that it's impossible to run a profitable shoe-shine parlor or haberdashery in this day and age.
*sigh*
I do hereby complain that it is not, to my knowledge, possible to earn a profit with an entirely automated shoeshine tunnel not unlike a car wash in which a conveyor belt carries you past a multitude of robotic arms wearing puffy white gloves which perform various shoe-shining operations upon you in sequence as Scott's "Powerhouse" blares at you.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
*sigh*
I do hereby complain that it is not, to my knowledge, possible to earn a profit with an entirely automated shoeshine tunnel not unlike a car wash in which a conveyor belt carries you past a multitude of robotic arms wearing puffy white gloves which perform various shoe-shining operations upon you in sequence as Scott's "Powerhouse" blares at you.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:31 PM on January 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I thought I'd hit on the best restaurant/bar name ever, but it turns out there are already several establishments named Moose & Squirrel.
posted by asperity at 8:44 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by asperity at 8:44 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Vancouver's night markets have a fantastic food selection, but they only take place on summer weekends.
Here's a Google images search for Richmond night market food if you want a peek.
posted by wenat at 9:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's a Google images search for Richmond night market food if you want a peek.
posted by wenat at 9:26 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
yes, they've tried night markets in TO, but the appeal is limited when the windchill hits -40. Canada is definitely not Taiwan, Hong Kong or Singapore.
posted by jb at 9:34 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jb at 9:34 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
borkencode: There's an X in the top left corner of the popup.
"NO NOT THAT X" (hard drive is filled to capacity with malware)
NoScript or die. (Anyone know of any equally powerful equivalents for other browsers? Do they even exist?)
posted by BiggerJ at 9:44 PM on January 4, 2017
"NO NOT THAT X" (hard drive is filled to capacity with malware)
NoScript or die. (Anyone know of any equally powerful equivalents for other browsers? Do they even exist?)
posted by BiggerJ at 9:44 PM on January 4, 2017
but the appeal is limited when the windchill hits -40
Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Curious.
posted by JackFlash at 9:44 PM on January 4, 2017
Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Curious.
posted by JackFlash at 9:44 PM on January 4, 2017
Both. -40 is the magic number where F and C are the same.
posted by randomnity at 9:52 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by randomnity at 9:52 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hampers &
It's a real thinker
posted by Queen of Spreadable Fats at 10:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's a real thinker
posted by Queen of Spreadable Fats at 10:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
> Eating? Not a hobby.
Say, have you heard about Soylent?
posted by fragmede at 10:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Say, have you heard about Soylent?
posted by fragmede at 10:18 PM on January 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised there haven't been more restaurant concepts focused on take-out or delivery. Maybe the savings you get from being able to be in a no-frills commercial kitchen and marginal location (and no wait staff) don't make up for missing out on high-margin items like drinks.
The Miami Herald article about rising rents seems like a really good look at that side of things. My impression is that while this can be an issue for specific restaurants in my neighborhood (downtown LA), it's really the rising price of ingredients (eggs!) and the correction to the minimum wage that is putting pressure on restaurants more broadly. It looks a sort of localized inflation that makes people really unhappy when it leaks out into what restaurants have to charge to be viable.
posted by jimw at 11:16 PM on January 4, 2017
The Miami Herald article about rising rents seems like a really good look at that side of things. My impression is that while this can be an issue for specific restaurants in my neighborhood (downtown LA), it's really the rising price of ingredients (eggs!) and the correction to the minimum wage that is putting pressure on restaurants more broadly. It looks a sort of localized inflation that makes people really unhappy when it leaks out into what restaurants have to charge to be viable.
posted by jimw at 11:16 PM on January 4, 2017
Holy cow klangklangston, thank you for using the phrase "Georgist land-taxes on rent seekers."
Despite my overeducation (and fandom of equitable growth advocates like Brad DeLong), I had only an inchoate sense that The Rent Is Too Damn High, so I was rightly pleased to be led to the venerable economic philosophy known as Georgism.
posted by whuppy at 7:59 AM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Despite my overeducation (and fandom of equitable growth advocates like Brad DeLong), I had only an inchoate sense that The Rent Is Too Damn High, so I was rightly pleased to be led to the venerable economic philosophy known as Georgism.
posted by whuppy at 7:59 AM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
"I'm surprised there haven't been more restaurant concepts focused on take-out or delivery. Maybe the savings you get from being able to be in a no-frills commercial kitchen and marginal location (and no wait staff) don't make up for missing out on high-margin items like drinks."
There's a guy around the corner from me who does this. He opened the business after retiring from his real job, and since it was just a hobby business, he didn't want to pay for a place with a kitchen built out already, but he couldn't get zoning approval to build out a kitchen in the spot he did find. So he sells chili in Tupperware containers. And it's awesome.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:33 AM on January 5, 2017
There's a guy around the corner from me who does this. He opened the business after retiring from his real job, and since it was just a hobby business, he didn't want to pay for a place with a kitchen built out already, but he couldn't get zoning approval to build out a kitchen in the spot he did find. So he sells chili in Tupperware containers. And it's awesome.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:33 AM on January 5, 2017
Even non-restaurants are getting on the ampersand train. The local beer and wine shop here is called Cork & Cap.
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:23 AM on January 5, 2017
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:23 AM on January 5, 2017
Needle & Pin was just announced this week as “Pittsburgh's first gin-focused cocktail bar and true Anglo-Indian fusion” restaurant. I'm sure it will be twice the price of actual indian restaurants.
posted by octothorpe at 10:31 AM on January 5, 2017
posted by octothorpe at 10:31 AM on January 5, 2017
I'm surprised there haven't been more restaurant concepts focused on take-out or delivery.
There are chains large and small doing take-and-bake pizza all over the country, and there used to be a place near my office that did take-out casserole.
As for delivery-focused restaurant concepts, if you think about it, most pizza joints are exactly that.
posted by me3dia at 10:48 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are chains large and small doing take-and-bake pizza all over the country, and there used to be a place near my office that did take-out casserole.
As for delivery-focused restaurant concepts, if you think about it, most pizza joints are exactly that.
posted by me3dia at 10:48 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
The rise of various delivery apps can only help that (si, ideally, there's more choices than just pizza). I was at a restaurant for lunch a while back, and despite most of the tables being empty, the kitchen was scrambling to keep up - couriers kept coming through, each picking up a small office's worth of food.
posted by fragmede at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2017
posted by fragmede at 1:13 PM on January 5, 2017
The rise of various delivery apps can only help that
As pointed out in the article, though, these apps are really vampires on the value chain that further squeeze restaurants' margins, unless customers are willing to pay a delivery fee or surchage.
posted by AndrewInDC at 1:43 PM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
As pointed out in the article, though, these apps are really vampires on the value chain that further squeeze restaurants' margins, unless customers are willing to pay a delivery fee or surchage.
posted by AndrewInDC at 1:43 PM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
"That's a big part of why restaurant food - even low-fat meals that don't have any meat - tastes so good; delicious, unhealthy salt." There's little evidence that salt is unhealthy - it's another one of those nutritional recommendations we've been given that has little basis in science.
posted by peacheater
The problem with salt isn't so much physiological as psychological. Salt makes people overeat. And unfortunately studies show it makes you crave sugar more than almost anything else.
posted by laptolain at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2017
posted by peacheater
The problem with salt isn't so much physiological as psychological. Salt makes people overeat. And unfortunately studies show it makes you crave sugar more than almost anything else.
posted by laptolain at 2:04 PM on January 5, 2017
I would wager this food truck could make some money
posted by ambulocetus at 4:26 PM on January 5, 2017
posted by ambulocetus at 4:26 PM on January 5, 2017
I'd bet the waste difference between restaraunts and home cooking would offset most of the gains from scale. Homes aren't beholden to regulations the same way as restaraunts.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 5:22 PM on January 5, 2017
posted by Strange_Robinson at 5:22 PM on January 5, 2017
Yeah it is amazing sometimes how quickly a new trend will spread. There *might* have been a Poke restaurant or two in LA a few years ago...
I'm assuming Los Angeles, not Louisiana, but L.A. loves it's trends. I've seen the doughnut, cupcake, and frozen yogurt ones up close and it's amazing to see people act like they've never had those things before. It happens everywhere. but L.A. takes it up a notch.
No one's whining that it's impossible to run a profitable shoe-shine parlor or haberdashery in this day and age.
Well, apparently I'm not doing it loud enough.
posted by bongo_x at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm assuming Los Angeles, not Louisiana, but L.A. loves it's trends. I've seen the doughnut, cupcake, and frozen yogurt ones up close and it's amazing to see people act like they've never had those things before. It happens everywhere. but L.A. takes it up a notch.
No one's whining that it's impossible to run a profitable shoe-shine parlor or haberdashery in this day and age.
Well, apparently I'm not doing it loud enough.
posted by bongo_x at 11:00 AM on January 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
I went to dinner at a place last night that's named after a level of Skyrim. I think they were pulling (or were pulled) wool though because it had a very nordic aesthetic with great decor, local* menu, well-paid wait staff, long line, few tables, etc. Everything this article is talking about.
I ate a bit more than I really wanted, but together my husband and I finished both "small plates" (6 oz cheese and 6 house-made crackers, amazing whitefish dip with potato chips), the side (two small slices of wheat bread lightly toasted with butter and a single serving of pickled turnips), and the open-faced sandwich. A drink each. a desert. $72.
five years ago we got married, and I think the dinner we went to to celebrate that was about the same price.
We spent the evening talking about these articles, about how we were seeing it in action. We agreed that we would like to come back perhaps once a year, until it shut down.
posted by rebent at 8:19 AM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I ate a bit more than I really wanted, but together my husband and I finished both "small plates" (6 oz cheese and 6 house-made crackers, amazing whitefish dip with potato chips), the side (two small slices of wheat bread lightly toasted with butter and a single serving of pickled turnips), and the open-faced sandwich. A drink each. a desert. $72.
five years ago we got married, and I think the dinner we went to to celebrate that was about the same price.
We spent the evening talking about these articles, about how we were seeing it in action. We agreed that we would like to come back perhaps once a year, until it shut down.
posted by rebent at 8:19 AM on January 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Saving the fine-dining restaurant world by Applying the McDonalds model of counter-service to the upscale restaurant experience.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 5:45 PM on January 25, 2017
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 5:45 PM on January 25, 2017
« Older The Mysterious Disappearance of Keith Davis | The snowball machine gun Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by yonation at 12:13 PM on January 4, 2017 [1 favorite]