Bannon now on National Sec. Council; professionals demoted to make room
January 29, 2017 1:44 PM Subscribe

Steve Bannon has been elevated to a position on the National Security Council, while the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence have been demoted. They will attend NSC meetings only when "issues pertaining to their responsibilities and expertise are to be discussed." Bannon is an radical ideologue; his position in a place where decisions about war and peace are made could be the beginning of something major.
posted by Sleeper (291 comments total) 96 users marked this as a favorite

I want to vomit.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:47 PM on January 29, 2017 [72 favorites]

No words. No fucking words.
posted by littlesq at 1:47 PM on January 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

.
posted by Artw at 1:48 PM on January 29, 2017

NPR News called Bannon "the former editor of the white nationalist website Breitbart.com"

About damn time.

If anyone still thinks the country is not in crisis mode yet, this should hopefully be the last straw for them.
posted by sutt at 1:48 PM on January 29, 2017 [188 favorites]

Naturally - this is the guy Trump employs to think for him.
posted by atoxyl at 1:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Eponolypse now.
posted by nevercalm at 1:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Bannon is most likely the author of the immigration EO, as well as the others. Trump is pretty much just signing things and grumping about at this point.
posted by Artw at 1:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [31 favorites]

How long will our Republican controlled Congress acquiesce ?

What does this say about the GOP?

When will you have had enough?
posted by Max Power at 1:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

This needs to be the next step. Bannon needs to be outed, his name needs to be a household name, like Spencer, like David Duke. He needs to be shown for the disgusting hatemongering troll he is, to the extent that the White House is forced to get rid of him. In any civilized society, he would never be anywhere near power, let alone at the heart of it, and his ascension is a clear sign of the failure of the heart of America.

This is sort of the cause I've settled on, not being home, not being able to directly protest. I want as many articles on Bannon, his anti-semitism, his misogyny, his wolf in sheeps clothing ability to appear at a conference in the Vatican spouting "Christian values" because he knew it would play, while publicly being dismissive of religion as anything else than a tool for separating groups. I want to publicize them to the highest level, to push his name and actions into everyday awareness. He is poison. He is a half-smart hack who ham-handedly crams catchphrases and point getting words into godawful doublespeak, and he has Trump's ear. More than anyone else, he needs to be thrown down from power (and after he's gone, we can start on the rest).
posted by Ghidorah at 1:54 PM on January 29, 2017 [147 favorites]

"Bannon is most likely the author of the immigration EO"

Giuliani admitted that Trump came to him and said, essentially, "I want you to make the Muslim ban legal."
posted by sutt at 1:54 PM on January 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Giuliani is trying to cling to relevance. I imagine not having a chair when the music stopped was crushing to him. Here he is, America's racist uncle, being out racisted, and trying to say, hey, remember me? I can be a total lack of human decency too!
posted by Ghidorah at 1:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [97 favorites]

it wasn't an admission, it was a smug brag
posted by poffin boffin at 2:00 PM on January 29, 2017 [33 favorites]

WTF is going on when you have a normally civilian office like Secretary of Defense occupied by a military officer, but the joint chiefs of the armed forces are demoted from the arm of the federal government created by law to coordinate them?
posted by wildblueyonder at 2:02 PM on January 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

What you have given our enemies, in plain terms, is clear and present confirmation of their rallying cry: America hates Muslims.
posted by robbyrobs at 2:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

How long will our Republican controlled Congress acquiesce ?

What does this say about the GOP?

When will you have had enough?

By the time it is too late?
posted by notreally at 2:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

2 years or forever.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

US+Israel war (at least partially nuclear) with Iran within 2 years. I'd bet sooner, but these people are acting so wildly right now, I'm gonna push my guess to 16 months.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:09 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

@simon_schama so we have Breitbart/ Bannon running the idiot President and now inserted into National Security. Together w purge at State - it's a coup
posted by Artw at 2:10 PM on January 29, 2017 [47 favorites]

"Together w purge at State - it's a coup"

I completely expect we're gonna see leaks about Trump's compromised position with the Russians coming from our intelligence community any day now.
posted by sutt at 2:13 PM on January 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

Are you familiar with the Disposition Matrix?

Okay, so, we used to a have a system in place for determining when to target someone for killing, especially when that person is a US citizen. The Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs, and the National Security Council all had to agree on it for the use of force to happen. It was a big deal.

Under Obama, this system was replaced with the Disposition Matrix. The Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs were removed explicitly from the decision-making process, and the decision was left entirely in the hands of the National Security Council, based on a complicated set of priorities which are not public. This is less of a shift than it seems, because since the National Security Council has existed, the Joint Chiefs have never not been on it, and the Pentagon answers to them, so not a lot actually changed, but it still wasn't a great move for a lot of reasons.

One of those reasons is becoming clear now, because the Joint Chiefs are no longer on the National Security council. It consists entirely of Donald Trump, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon. So the decision to approve the targeted killing of a US citizen lies entirely and exclusively in the hands of Donald Trump, the head of the RNC's campaign finances, and a Nazi propagandist. Without review or oversight.

This is a very, very bad thing.
posted by kafziel at 2:14 PM on January 29, 2017 [469 favorites]

I completely expect we're gonna see leaks about Trump's compromised position with the Russians coming from our intelligence community any day now.

That or they all turn up dead in cars.
posted by Artw at 2:14 PM on January 29, 2017 [35 favorites]

There is this, though:
Trump has scarcely been in office and has been signing executive orders, seemingly non-stop. Conway tells us that this is just the beginning. However, note how big a reaction has already taken place in many cities, airports, etc. And this counter reaction will grow at a rapid rate. I am not sure where it will lead, though, and bright people if such exist in the GOP may well decide soon that given the popular vote in the recent election, such an outpouring of anti-Trump activity does not bode well for the next election.
posted by Postroad at 2:16 PM on January 29, 2017 [29 favorites]

If anyone still thinks the country is not in crisis mode yet, this should hopefully be the last straw for them.

Clearly you have not met my family. So ambivalent. So many straws left.
posted by hal9k at 2:16 PM on January 29, 2017 [77 favorites]

Also, his party is pushing laws in multiple states to legalize the murder of protestors by cops. Not for any cause, but just to disperse protests of 10 people or more. Think about that when you think about how the kill list might be used.
posted by kafziel at 2:16 PM on January 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

Also, his party is pushing laws in multiple states to legalize the murder of protestors by cops. Not for any cause, but just to disperse protests of 10 people or more.

Wait, what? More info, please.
posted by wildblueyonder at 2:19 PM on January 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Clearly you have not met my family. So ambivalent. So many straws left."

How do we reach people like this? Is there nothing to be done? Will any attempt to reach out be shot down?
posted by sutt at 2:20 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Groups like CAIR are being labeled as terrorist supporters and now Bannon is the guy in charge of deciding who can be shot.

This is fine.

*sob*
posted by dazed_one at 2:22 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Also, his party is pushing laws in multiple states to legalize the murder of protestors by cops. Not for any cause, but just to disperse protests of 10 people or more.

Wait, what? More info, please.

There's ... not a lot of more info to give. That's exactly what is happening. Here's a source on it, if that helps.
posted by kafziel at 2:23 PM on January 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Also, his party is pushing laws in multiple states to legalize the murder of protestors by cops. Not for any cause, but just to disperse protests of 10 people or more.

Wait, what? More info, please.

Um, yeah. What's this about? Cite?

(Oops. Posts crossed.)
posted by saulgoodman at 2:24 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Politicians are about power, and the GOP doesn't seem to care about anything else. So, I know they're worried if they oppose Trump they'll piss off their base, but they've gotta be wondering how far his EO power grabs will go. And that could affect their own political power as legislators. Am I being too hopeful some might break ranks and vote against a Cabinet nominee or two? Just as a power play?
posted by Mavri at 2:24 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

He needs to be shown for the disgusting hatemongering troll he is, to the extent that the White House is forced to get rid of him.

With all due respect, I'm not sure how it is possible to have had more public awareness prior to the election about the danger that electing Trump (and Bannon) would pose to the republic and its values. Yet Trump was elected anyway, and Bannon along with him. What could Bannon possibly do short of having a fatal heart attack in the Oval Office that would get him forced out now?
posted by blucevalo at 2:25 PM on January 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

What could Bannon possibly do short of having a fatal heart attack in the Oval Office that would get him forced out now?

Get caught in bed with a live boy, or possibly a dead girl.
posted by toxic at 2:28 PM on January 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

> That sound you hear is millions of people making voodoo dolls and shoving pins into their chests.

Terrorists, the lot of them!
posted by I-Write-Essays at 2:29 PM on January 29, 2017

This weekend may not mark the total meltdown and end of the Trump Presidency; but it sure seems possible. No one wants to be part of the gang that can't shoot straight.
posted by humanfont at 2:29 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I've been thinking and talking about this pretty extensively with colleagues and friends. I think it's worth stating the obvious here: for Bannon, administration strategy IS national security. Defense and Intelligence are secondary and relevant only insofar as they serve that primary purpose.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:32 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Get caught in bed with a live boy, or possibly a dead girl.

Ah, remember the good old days when that would have been true.
posted by humboldt32 at 2:34 PM on January 29, 2017 [47 favorites]

And the hits just keep on coming . . .
posted by bookmammal at 2:37 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is pretty much a Constitutional crisis.

A federal judge has issued a stay on the patently illegal executive order. Border Patrol and Custom officers are refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of this, as is the administration.

The next step is what? Federal marshals to enforce the law? National Guard? Whose side are they on?

As John Lewis said, this is a dark hour for America. (And given his experience and life's work, I doubt he makes that statement lightly.) I can't even think beyond the end of February, let alone any midterm elections.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 2:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [83 favorites]

Do I take solace in the fact that the current Trump organization is too fucking stupid to boil the frog slowly?

Seeing what happened last night gives me great hope.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [31 favorites]

Well, we made it 240 years. I guess it was a good run, all things considered. See you all in the gulag.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [55 favorites]

I completely expect we're gonna see leaks about Trump's compromised position with the Russians coming from our intelligence community any day now.

That or they all turn up dead in cars.

Who knew cars were so dangerous! Don't hang out in your cars, spy people.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think one of the worst things we can do is to continue to think of Donald Trump as an idiot or a puppet. He's neither. I didn't think he was an ideologue, either, but now I wonder whether that's true. Nobody accidentally appoints a vocal white supremacist to be his primary adviser. Trump has probably coveted this moment for a very long time.
posted by klanawa at 2:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [45 favorites]

We're going to war, one way or another. War's a reliable money-maker, and wartime presidents have second terms because it's a time of crisis. Someplace with a coastline, Bannon wanted all those new ships for a reason.
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 2:53 PM on January 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

This Is How Steve Bannon Sees The Entire World
posted by Artw at 2:53 PM on January 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Beyond just getting these people removed from power, I'm hoping that one of the legacies this whole clusterfuck will be reworking and formalizing how power and appointments work. What Trump's been doing a lot of is taking advantage of informal/fuzzy rules regarding how things work at the top, rules which were buttressed during previous administrations by an implicitly accepted set of norms that Republican and Democratic politicians shared. Trump respects none of those norms, in fact he's deliberately gaming the lack of formal, legally-enforceable rules in that area (and he's sure looking eager to game the same lack with regards to domestic dissent, foreign relations, and godknowswhatelse).

Similar to how this election has gotten people talking again about dealing with the Electoral College situation and with gerrymandering, there needs to be new legislation reacting to the precedent set by Trump for just clearing out whoever he pleases to make room for his buddies.
posted by AdamCSnider at 2:53 PM on January 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

In which Bannon rants about forming the "church militant"
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:55 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

I come not to praise Democrats, but plenty of them have been at airports since last night. Here's Rep. Gerry Connolly from Virginia with two others at Dulles, on the phone with CPB.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 2:55 PM on January 29, 2017 [28 favorites]

I'm never going to see the mountains in Iran now, am I?

There was this really nice girl in a lab I worked for. She was from Iran, somewhere near mountains and ever since then I've had the ambition to go to Iran and see the mountains for myself. I figured I'd wear a scarf and whatever, and really all the Iranians I've ever met have been pleasant people, and their government is not their fault. I figured I'd get to go someday. And now I never will. I just hope there's some mountains left for somebody at the end of all this.

Honestly, day by day I get angrier at Trump voters because they were just such dumbshits - leaving all else aside, we knew that this kind of thing would happen.
posted by Frowner at 2:56 PM on January 29, 2017 [116 favorites]

I want him fired. It was clear that Trump's candidacy was going down the drain until Bannon commandeered it with his extreme views. Without Bannon Trump is an empty vessel. Trump is Bannon's lapdog, he needs to be humiliated with this fact incessantly.
posted by any major dude at 2:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [34 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

You not being aware of every move Liz Warren makes is your mistake.
posted by humboldt32 at 3:01 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

On the shooting protestors story linked above....

There's ... not a lot of more info to give. That's exactly what is happening. Here's a source on it, if that helps.

The browser extension B.S. Detector rates that site as Clickbait. I'd take it with a grain of salt, at the moment at least.
posted by JHarris at 3:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Similar to how this election has gotten people talking again about dealing with the Electoral College situation and with gerrymandering, there needs to be new legislation reacting to the precedent set by Trump for just clearing out whoever he pleases to make room for his buddies.

What's more, there needs to be a full denazification of CBP and DHS, at minimum. You enforced the EO after the court orders? Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, and, after you get out, do not ever work for any state of federal government or in any law enforcement or law enforcement adjacent position for as long as you live.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [72 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

Feinstein introduces two bills in response to Trump's ban

Elizabeth Warren and Cory Booker Blast Immigration Plan

John Lewis Sat Down At Atlanta’s Airport And Demanded Answers About Detained Travelers

Chuck Schumer Vows to Fight Trump Immigration Order

It's happening. It's not being covered as much in the media because everything is madness and Democrats at podiums don't make as many headlines as Nazis exercising power and massive protests shutting down airport traffic. But it's happening.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [110 favorites]

So, this is the National Security Council, and they demoted the two principals with clear responsibility for external security, the DNI and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Those two will only be attending meetings which are relevant to their bailiwicks. So they're going to be talking a lot about National Security, but not as much about external security... Does this mean the Trump administration is going to have a heavy emphasis on internal security? Like you get in a police state?
posted by Coventry at 3:04 PM on January 29, 2017 [35 favorites]

Sen. Chris Murphy spitting fire. Sen. Kamala Harris has been out front.
posted by chimpsonfilm at 3:06 PM on January 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

Take heart, good people of Metafilter who live at the other side of the ocean, and organize the resistance.

How to Culture Jam a Populist in Four Easy Steps

Because in one way, Trump and Chávez are identical: they are masters of Populism.
There’s something soothing in all that anger. Though full of hatred, it promises redemption.
The recipe is universal. Find a wound common to many, someone to blame for it and a good story to tell. Mix it all together. Tell the wounded you know how they feel. That you found the bad guys. Label them: the minorities, the politicians, the businessmen. Cartoon them. As vermin, evil masterminds, flavourless hipsters, you name it. Then paint yourself as the saviour. Capture their imagination. Forget about policies and plans, just enrapture them with a good story. One that starts in anger and ends in vengeance. A vengeance they can participate in.

There may be, there will be rough times ahead. But most of the world has got your back.
posted by _dario at 3:06 PM on January 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

That may have more to do with your news roundup page than the congressional democrats, but the different still might be striking - the media simply cannot cover this in the same way because things are moving too fast. 24 hour news coverage seems more designed to cover one day-old development incessantly than to cover breaking news constantly.
posted by dinty_moore at 3:06 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Well, if it helps any, Frowner, I feel comfortable saying that the mountains will survive just fine. Whether there are people left to admire them, on the other hand...
posted by 256 at 3:07 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm confused myself, so this isn't an expert evaluation, but you can't have Trump owned by Russia and an invasion of Iran at the same time. Iran and Russia are allies. Syria and Russia are allies. Trump will not invade Iran.
The Muslim ban might make someone (really stupid) think "all is good, he is not in the pocket of Putin, he is acting to protect US interests", but also this makes no sense, because if he wanted to protect Syrian and Iranian citizens against their pro-Russian regimes, he would give them priority access. (The same goes for the other countries under the ban, but there it is much more complex, and since Trump and his minions are not capable of any form of complexity, this convinces me even more of the Manchurian Candidacy of Trump).

IMO, war with China is much more likely. Also, Trump kept on ranting about "Gina" at his rallies, and that seems to mean China. These few days, he has stuck to his message, regardless of what all sorts of people had hoped/imagined.

War with China is the most stupid thing I can imagine, and that might be the trigger for ousting the whole administration. But who knows - as many, many experts have said this season, everything is off now. We can't know.
posted by mumimor at 3:09 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

I'm confused myself, so this isn't an expert evaluation, but you can't have Trump owned by Russia and an invasion of Iran at the same time.

I'm pretty sure Putin would be laughing his ass off if we try to invade Iran.
posted by Slothrup at 3:10 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

That's because the Dems don't own a news network like the other major political party. They're all over the place on Twitter. At least five NY House Reps at JFK, Sen. Booker at Dulles, along with VA Gov. McAuliffe and VA Atty Gen Herring, Sen. Warren at BOS, Sen. Casey and Gov. Wolf at PHL, and the great Rep. Lewis at ATL. And I'm leaving a lot of names out. Meanwhile, nine GOP Senators and Representatives have released milquetoast protests of Trump's E.O. But both parties are the same though, right?
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:12 PM on January 29, 2017 [38 favorites]

You beat me to it, mixedmetaphors...I'm running out of scripts.
All 3 of my reps are Democrats, but I still want to voice my outrage and pressure them all to stand firm against whatever the "daily outrage" is. How do on earth do we approach this one?
posted by bookmammal at 3:13 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I called my representative about Bannon a while back and only two days ago received a response:"...a President's personal staff selections are not required to go through a formal confirmation process...As such, I will not be able to vote on any measures pertaining to President-elect Trump's selection of Mr. Bannon..."

So, yes, I would welcome a script for re-iterating my concern about the political wing of his staff sitting in on NATIONAL SECURITY meetings. Even Rove didn't attend!
posted by MonkeyToes at 3:13 PM on January 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

All 3 of my reps are Democrats, but I still want to voice my outrage and pressure them all to stand firm against whatever the "daily outrage" is. How do we approach this one?

Are they out at the airports or putting out strong statements? Call or write and give them a pat on the head to keep doing such things.

If they're not, tell them you're disappointed that they're failing to stand for American values, this is a nation of immigrants, and that breaking our promises to Green Card holders and refugees is unconscionable.

Cheer 'em on when they do the right thing; kick their butts when they don't. If you kick their butts and then change their tune, cheer them on again.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 3:16 PM on January 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

I was just at a Democratic event at which both my mayor and representative spit fire (the mayor basically said "bring it, I'll probably get more sleep in jail" to the notion of enforcing deportation forces in sanctuary cities by arresting mayors). The mayor was leaving immediately after speaking to go support protesters at the airport (we have very very few international flights, so that was a solidarity only demo, no one is being held here to my knowledge). My D senator was at the Philly airport all night, still in white tie and tails having rushed from another event. My D governor has also been in Philly negotiating directly for the release of detainees and making public statements. I do not always love my Democratic lawmakers but in this they have been quite vocal, forceful, and personally present.

Tl;dr: you need a better news roundup.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:17 PM on January 29, 2017 [94 favorites]

IMO, war with China is much more likely.

More likely, but still unlikely, I think. Trump often negotiates by making things unpleasant for the people he wants things from. He'd somersault instantly on normalizing relations with Taiwan if he could get something from the PRC which bought him credibility as a protector of his supporters' economic interests.
posted by Coventry at 3:17 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

War with China is the most stupid thing I can imagine, and that might be the trigger for ousting the whole administration.

That would do it, yes
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:17 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

Dems have to take a real "fuck it" attitude and start using non-statesmanlike language and make it stick. Every mention of Trump needs to be referred to as "the failed Trump presidency" and Bannon should always be referred to as "Herr Bannon." Conway should be "propaganda minister Conway" too. Stop playing nice and be honest about what's going on.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:17 PM on January 29, 2017 [93 favorites]

This is pretty much a Constitutional crisis.

A federal judge has issued a stay on the patently illegal executive order. Border Patrol and Custom officers are refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of this, as is the administration.

There's at least one report coming out of Dulles claiming that CBP are also now detaining some US citizens with dual citizenship and removing detainees through the back door to other undisclosed locations.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:20 PM on January 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Cheer 'em on when they do the right thing; kick their butts when they don't. If you kick their butts and then change their tune, cheer them on again.

Yes--but I guess I'm unclear on what Congress is actually able to do about rogue appointments to the NSC.
posted by bookmammal at 3:23 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Impeach the motherfucker already. They can do that.
posted by Skorgu at 3:24 PM on January 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Impeach the motherfucker already. They can do that.

Yeah but what if he won't leave?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:25 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Any day that there's not a fresh new atrocity to react to, I'm going to fall back on "impeach now" for my calls to congresspersons (lol who am I kidding all mine are dudes).

Seriously. Impeach.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:26 PM on January 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Bannon : Trump : Rove : Bush: Brasi: Corleone

(on second thought, let's not insult the Corleones)
posted by jonmc at 3:26 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

The horror.
posted by Splunge at 3:29 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump isn't a master of populism like Hugo Chavez. Hugo Chavez was popular winning his first Presidential election with 56% of the votes.
posted by humanfont at 3:29 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

The important thing here, the thing to remember, is that **OF COURSE** this is not a bridge too far for the Republicans, whether the elected ones or the laity.

Nothing is.

Literally nothing is.

Remember when Trump said he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and not lose a single vote? He was right.

They will not impeach him. They will not vote against him.

In fact, as he breaks the law, as he violates court orders, as he is found in contempt of court and ignores that, they will love him all the more.

This, I fear, may genuinely be the start of either Trump becoming ever bolder in his lawbreaking as any effort to restrain him fails, or the beginning of civil war. And I think the first is a lot more likely.

Trump is in violation of a judicial order. Which is more likely that the judge find him in contempt and order him arrested by a bailiff, or that the judge just kind of lets it go?

The first would be the start of a Constitutional crisis and possible civil war. The second would be a humiliating blow to both the judge personally and the concept of the rule of law but wouldn't lead to civil war. I'm betting the judge picks the second.

Which means Trump will get away with this.

Let that sink in: Trump will get away with both writing a blatantly unconstitutional executive order and defying a court order to stop implementing it.

Do you think for even one moment he'll stop with this particular executive order?

I don't.

I think he'll escalate. I think this is just the beginning, just the camel's nose in the tent, the first temperature increase under the boiling frog, whatever metaphor you like. I think this is quite deliberate. They picked an issue his base loves, an issue where the opposition relies on some semi-technical stuff that can't be too easily expressed as a soundbite, and an issue where the entire weight of letting it happen or not depends on a single federal judge deciding whether he's really going to try to send bailiffs to arrest a sitting president.

It's the perfect first step towards a totally lawless and dictatorial presidency. He is all but guaranteed to win here, which means his odds of winning on the next go up exponentially.

It really does look like the whole country is starting to unravel.
posted by sotonohito at 3:32 PM on January 29, 2017 [113 favorites]

The horror.

I feel like the White House is basically the monkey sampan at this point, and we're floating by in the PBR going "Um if that's what we can see...what's upriver then?"
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:33 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Yeah but what if he won't leave?"

Congress has the power to have people who defy its orders arrested, imprisoned, fined, and given other similar consequences. (Most typically when someone is found "in contempt of Congress" but I'm not super clear on the legal terminology as it relates to impeachment stuff.) Anyway, if he was impeached and refused to leave, then yes, Congress has him arrested and imprisoned.

I'm pretty sure -- pretty sure -- the nation's military and police authorities would recognize both Congress's authority to impeach (and imprison) and DJT's loss of authority upon impeachment.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:36 PM on January 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

I think the U.S. will go to war within the year. Flynn wants Iran but if not Iran, they'll probably go after Iraq. Trump's ISIS EO was to order the Pentagon to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS.
posted by drezdn at 3:37 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's the perfect first step towards a totally lawless and dictatorial presidency.

Related to that and the posts about people entering the US having to show their social media accounts (on the previous Trump thread):

Seymour Hersh reckons that there is going to be a big push towards state surveillance:

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/25/intercepted-podcast-the-clock-strikes-13-and-donald-trump-is-president/

THE CLOCK STRUCK 13 on January 20, Donald Trump is the president of the United States, and episode one of Intercepted is here. Intercept co-founder Glenn Greenwald and Editor-in-Chief Betsy Reed join Jeremy Scahill for a discussion on the crazy apocalyptic present in which we find ourselves. They break down Trump’s attacks on the media, that insane speech he gave at the CIA, and the state of the Democratic Party. Naomi Klein sends in a dispatch from the Women’s March against the Trump-Pence administration about what’s at stake for people who are not men. Jeremy goes deep into the secretive world of Seymour Hersh’s kitchen and shoots the shit with the legendary, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist about why he calls Trump a “circuit breaker” for the two-party system. And we hear a spoken-word performance from hip-hop artist Immortal Technique.

posted by Buntix at 3:39 PM on January 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Source tells @Carrasquillo Bannon on the NSC because of his knowledge of the global populist/nationalist movement

So, the NSC is going to become a Nazi-making machine.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

As a Brit, I find it incredibly depressing that the Brexit vote has left our PM so desperate to curry favour with Trump. Teresa May was given the opportunity to denounce Trump's immigration EO at her press conference in Turkey, but produced only weasel words in response. With our European trade likely to be fucked, I fear May will hurry into Trump's toxic embrace rather than speaking out against him as she should.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [30 favorites]

Source tells @Carrasquillo Bannon on the NSC because of his knowledge of the global populist/nationalist movement

You might as well say "Bannon on the NSC because of his knowledge of the Illuminati/Lizard Man conspiracy"

I mean it would feel the same
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

I thought so yesterday, I don't any more. In the space of one day he's gone from very unpopular internationally, to ultra unpopular internationally.

The petition to disinvite him for a state visit was racking up about 180 new signatures per ten seconds, fairly consistently.

The problem is this leaves Britain an isolated little island that nobody wants to play with, but hey, that's what my fellow Brits wanted! ahahaha
posted by tel3path at 3:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

Sometimes I think while I write; while it is implicit in the post I wrote above, only now I realize that the people who might seek refuge in the US from the banned countries are almost certain to be people who affront Iran or Russia. Which means that when they are sent back, they are sent back to mortal danger.

Generally, I'm not as scared of Iran as most Americans, but I'm pretty certain that anyone who opposes the regime will disappear and maybe even face torture and death.*

Same with people in Syria who have opposed the regime, now when that regime is returning to power with the generous aid of Russia.

The worst case is Iraq, because it is our responsibility: we failed to help build a society on the ruins of Saddam Hussein's dictatorship. Reading the stories of the refugees/immigrants from Iraq, it becomes very clear how that nation has devolved into a pre-modern tribal hell, fueled by post-modern weapons. And it is literally all our fault (I'm Danish, we were a stupid part of the coalition of the willing). Not just from invading the country but all the way back from encouraging Hussein to take over the country and then invade Iran and then being all surprised when he turned out to be a sadistic tyrant.

In Yemen, to be honest, I have no idea who is seeking asylum. But I do know that the Iranian-backed forces are winning over the Saudi-backed forces. Which might indicate that the people who want to flee are not pro Iran. Yemen, to me, is very complicated - a couple of decades ago, this had nothing to do with religion, and now it is a sunni-shia struggle. Friends who have actually lived there are equally confused. Whatever it is, it is a proxy war between two Gulf states.

*how can I then be less scared? Well, that can happen in the US as well, and in a lot of other countries allied with the US, not least Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, neither of which are on the list. Iran has some semblance of a rule of law, however fragile. They are not good guys, but they are also not North Korea, and even the ayatollahs love the US. Under a president Clinton, I would have been very positive about further peace talks with Iran, because I think there is a huge potential in an alliance with Iran. Under president Trump, I worry about every step that aligns Iran more closely with Russia, because I think the anger towards the USA and the West can develop into potentially terrible situations.
posted by mumimor at 3:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

drezdn I figure we start bombing Iran in less than 8 months myself.
posted by sotonohito at 3:51 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

As a Brit, I find it incredibly depressing that the Brexit vote has left our PM so desperate to curry favour with Trump.

Made doubly ridiculous as she's basically sold us out for (presumably sweet whispered promises) that aren't going to be possible to call in for at least 2 years. By which time I suspect very little that is the context now will be.
posted by Buntix at 3:55 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

What we could do about Bannon - pressure Dem legislators to demand an investigation into any Russian and white nationalist ties. Normally presidents get to pick who they want as advisors, but normally presidents don't supplant Intelligence and Military members of the NSC with unknown entities. We deserve to have him investigated and vetted if he is going to be involved in national security. So what if it isn't normally done - nothing is normal now.

Needs to be done fast before he amasses more power - and I can't think the generals and the intelligence community are happy about this.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:55 PM on January 29, 2017 [46 favorites]

One thing I keep thinking about with this whole situation is that mainly what Trump wants is to be loved. He wants power and attention, yes, but he wants to be loved at least as much. I'd imagine he genuinely feels he was swept into the presidency at the front of a grand movement, and that he's confused and a little afraid at the resistance that's shown its face in the past ten days. If popular opinion domestically and abroad continues to be so openly scathing, I can see him getting mad and ditching Bannon, who is so clearly leading him down this path, and trying to do things that make him a little less hated.

Right?? RIGHT?!
posted by something something at 3:58 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yeah but what if he won't leave?

I guess that depends on your faith in the military.
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:58 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

the generals and the intelligence community are happy about this.

What are we going to call our Arab Spring?
posted by M Edward at 3:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

"It's an unusual decision, NPR's Mara Liasson reported"

C'mon, NPR. It's a fucking disaster, is what it is.
posted by Ickster at 3:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

The second American revolution.
posted by not that mimi at 4:00 PM on January 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

If popular opinion domestically and abroad continues to be so openly scathing,

Is he aware the opinion is so scathing though? If he's only watching Fox News, he might not.
posted by drezdn at 4:01 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I broke the news about Bannon to a relative in the Armed Forces yesterday. It was a short and ominous conversation.

Them: Bannon? The Nazi?
BSA: Yup.
Them: So he gets the kill list with no input from the chiefs and no intel?
BSA: He's got the whole thing sewn up, yeah.
Them: Interesting. I'll call you back.

Then nothing.

Is it bad that I'm half putting my trust in some kind of coup? Cause that's where I'm at and I barely recognize myself.
posted by BS Artisan at 4:03 PM on January 29, 2017 [114 favorites]

That or they all turn up dead in cars.

Who knew cars were so dangerous! Don't hang out in your cars, spy people.

oh shit, i thought he meant Trump, Priebus and Bannon.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:03 PM on January 29, 2017

Who knew cars were so dangerous! Don't hang out in your cars, spy people.

especially if you hear "Layla"
posted by thelonius at 4:07 PM on January 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Let's try to keep this post to Bannon/NSC stuff and not use it as a catchall.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:08 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump is in violation of a judicial order. Which is more likely that the judge find him in contempt and order him arrested by a bailiff, or that the judge just kind of lets it go?

I'll take Option C - the judge issues a warrant for the arrest of (insert name of some DHS front-line staff here). I don't know about those judges, but the ones I worked with absolutely believe in judicial independence and the administration of justice ... anything that lessens their rights absolutely puts their back up. They'd certainly try to stop it, at a minimum.
posted by Mogur at 4:08 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

If the country survives this, I hope the GOP is never forgiven for the damage its done to our democracy. For all of their flaws, the Democratic Party has at least attempted to play by the rules. Even when Obama clearly had a national movement behind him, they still placated the concerns and complaints of the right who couldn't be bothered to take to the streets in mass protest. Rather it was the party itself who created the illusion of a mass movement, preferring to drum up support via various media organizations (it's clear that their mistrust in media is rooted in their own vicious manipulation of facts) and national figures like Trump. They've never had a real grass roots populist movement, the Tea Party being primarily a creation of Fox News and its ilk. The GOP has proven itself to be fundamentally against actual democracy and a government for the people by the people, hence their reliance on voter suppression. That's why they'll never truly distance themselves from Trump's politics even if the eventually vilify the man.
posted by AtoBtoA at 4:09 PM on January 29, 2017 [81 favorites]

Is it bad that I'm half putting my trust in some kind of coup?

Booting the military off the NSC seems like it would be a surefire way to piss them off...
posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:10 PM on January 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

What does the US military know about security anyway? You ask each of the four branches to secure a building and you get four completely different results /oldjoke
posted by um at 4:15 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Almost every policy move he's made has been rejected (Mexico tariff, green card restrictions, etc.) -- can't that be used against him? Usually when you embarrass your boss multiple times you get shown the door.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:19 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

^ Paul Slade - #Theresatheappeaser
posted by adamvasco at 4:21 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

As a Canadian, I struggle watching what is happening across the road. I donated some money to the ACLU today. I don't know if it'll help but I'm hoping that your country finds a way to survive this. My thoughts are with all those who feel threatened about their safety/future.

Fellow Canadian here -- I also donated to ACLU but I want to do more, too. Thinking it might be time to swallow my pride, pony up the $15, and vote for Michael Chong in the Conservative race.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:25 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

We'll still want your Doctor Who and your Sherlock and your other PBS offerings. Probably with ~~a new 20% tax attached to them.~~ an even trade for re-runs of "The Apprentice."
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:26 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

What are we going to call our Arab Spring?

The Third Reconstruction
posted by bl1nk at 4:31 PM on January 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'm just glad I read In The Garden Of Beasts, a few years ago-- describing the life of the US Ambassador in Nazi Berlin.

I have the same feeling now, as I did reading that book. Life is the 'same' as it must have been for millions of Berliners-- I do my thing, I chat with people, I'm eating takeout Udon right now in front of a laptop. This could be my life in any year over the last decade.

Yet-- no. There's a horrible undercut of menace. Colleagues at work are uneasy. My Uber driver yesterday (a young woman, an Ethiopian) couldn't stop telling me about how sad she was to be leaving the US this summer. She just didn't think she could stay here any longer.

I don't blame her at all.
posted by mrdaneri at 4:31 PM on January 29, 2017 [65 favorites]

Part of me is convinced that a large part of this can be mitigated by members of the media consistently referring to "president Bannon" as a way to make it clear that the country thinks that Trump is a puppet, because good lord that man wants to feel like everyone thinks he's in charge. Gotta drive a wedge in there somehow.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:40 PM on January 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

I have no idea if this sounds coherent or what, I'm kind of at a place where it's hard to tell, but here's what I sent to my Republican Senators on Bannon - I had to go with an email because I had too much to say for a phone call, and I'll print and mail this as well. Feel free to use some of the sentiments if it works for you (but make sure to change it up significantly so they don't start comparing notes and thinking it's form letter noise), it's way, way, waaay more diplomatic and charitable than it should be in some spots (esp. regarding Priebus and Trump voters) but I'm trying to get around the defensive armor a little:

Senators Ernst and Grassley,

My name is ___, a constituent of yours from Sioux City, IA. I am writing to urge you to denounce President Trump's Muslim ban, push for the removal of Steve Bannon from the National Security Council and the reinstatement of the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence as permanent, mandatory members of that Council through any means available to you as Senators, and take a good long look at the involvement of Mr. Bannon and Senator Sessions in the drafting of the series of dangerously unvetted, slapdash executive orders that the President has signed over the past week. The Muslim ban goes against Christian principles, conservative principles, national security best practices, and, above all, the promise of America. In going against the rulings of several courts in the wake of the ban, Donald Trump is actively undermining the very fabric of our democracy - and if you let it slide against the courts, I guarantee you that he will be emboldened to go against your own power in Congress.

On the topic of Mr. Bannon, making this extremist ideologue who was not subject to the advice and consent of Congress closer to the National Security Council's decision-making process than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence is a dangerous and foolish path, and Congress must intervene however possible to restore order and responsible practices to Mr. Trump's intelligence team. It is clear even from the outside that influence games between Mr. Bannon, who encourages Mr. Trump's worst impulses, and Mr. Priebus, who tries to keep a steady and responsible hand on the tiller, are not only destabilizing the Presidency, but are being won by Bannon. No amount of spin gets around the fact that this is a man who has made his money, his profile and his influence on the peddling of anti-American white nationalist propaganda. This is unacceptable. Iowans might get riled up with enthusiastic hardline rhetoric sometimes, and while it disappoints me I do understand that it's due to the excitement around a populist candidate - but at the end of the day, we are a people who love our neighbors and recognize that we are in this together. Bannon wants to continue inflaming our worst impulses, which will end in far too many losing sight of their values. If you don't think that this is possible, look at the polls showing a quick reversal of Republican voters' feelings towards Vladimir Putin - clearly this was not a long-thought-out, well-considered position, but the product of ignoring long-held values in a populist fervor. Or, for an example closer to home, recall that Mr. Trump reacted to Ben Carson's brief swing in the primary polls in Iowa by asking "How stupid are the people of Iowa?", which the people of Iowa then rewarded him for.

We've had countless examples of where this road leads when large voting blocs begin to prioritize winning over principles, and it raises loud, blaring alarms when you think of the prospect of Mr. Bannon's influence coupling with this populist behavior. Mr. Trump is already ignoring court orders putting a stay on a terrifying, harmful and chaotic executive order with Bannon's hands all over it, and now Mr. Bannon has a position on the National Security Council, which has the power to kill with the Disposition Matrix (something I strenuously disagreed with President Obama on which the Republicans should work to fix). Today, reports are coming in of CBP personnel refusing to comply with court orders at Dulles International Airport and moving detainees offsite instead of giving them access to lawyers, and whether this order comes from the top or is a result of the chaos caused by the poorly-thought-out executive order, it is a situation ripe for manipulation by bad actors and it normalizes the idea that checks and balances can be circumvented. I have chills up my spine and a pit in my stomach just thinking about the implications of this. This is the wolf at the door, and this is how the wolf always arrives, with good people giving it the benefit of the doubt and not taking it seriously. As Senators, you are the front line in stopping this. This is your sacred, patriotic responsibility. If you do not make a stand here and now, you will have failed in your duty.

Personally, I believe you are good people who will do the right thing, and I encourage you to do so. Iowa will stand with you. I will stand with you. We may disagree on many things, and we will argue until blue in the face in the future, but in this moment we must be together on the right side of history. You have both publicly disagreed with the Muslim ban in the past. Your core values as Christians, Republicans, Iowans and Americans are telling you what to do, do not be afraid of temporarily angry voters enthralled with this administration's worst impulses or the pressure of others in your party. Do not take the lead of your colleagues who think they can keep their heads down until this blows over. Look to people of honor: Rep. Charlie Dent, Sen. Jeff Flake, Sen. John McCain, Sen. Lindsey Graham, Rep. Justin Amash, Sen. Susan Collins, Sen. Rob Portman, Sen. Lamar Alexander, Rep. Dan Newhouse, Rep. Barbara Comstock, Rep. Elise Stefanik, Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Rep. Carlos Curbelo, and, of course, our neighboring Senator, Ben Sasse.

posted by jason_steakums at 4:41 PM on January 29, 2017 [84 favorites]

I strongly encourage everyone who is outraged by this to contact their congressional representatives and implore them to start getting loud and angry about this development. The Democrats have been too complacent imho about the daily attacks against the country (and donate to the ACLU).
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 4:43 PM on January 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

The ACLU has gotten $19 million in donations this weekend. Please also look at your local orgs.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:47 PM on January 29, 2017 [35 favorites]

I've recently been reading Viktor Klemperer's diaries (published as "I Shall Bear Witness"); the ominous part right now is how, in 1933, the Third Reich seemed utterly absurd and its imminent collapse inevitable.
posted by acb at 4:51 PM on January 29, 2017 [60 favorites]

Coming to your Facebook page, script that you didn't invite, inviting you to join the Trump fan club. You click no, the first time it shows. It shows up next time, and when you click it, you are on a list. This is the stuff that is coming. Suddenly, you will have more difficulty flying, and longer traffic stops.
posted by Oyéah at 4:54 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Does this mean that Bannon has the highest possible security clearance?
posted by Rumple at 4:58 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Welp. I'm gonna go play Fallout. You know, for practice.
posted by sexyrobot at 4:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Clearances are complicated, and practically nobody is cleared for everything, but yes, he will routinely see highly classified material generated by the intel community.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 5:01 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

So every time I hear more news I think things like "This is some cosmic A/b testing shit. Someone please switch us back over to universe A, please." or how we live in a world that is now created by the internet's id.
posted by symbioid at 5:19 PM on January 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm pretty sure -- pretty sure -- the nation's military and police authorities would recognize both Congress's authority to impeach (and imprison) and DJT's loss of authority upon impeachment.

I'm definitely not confident about the police, but I hope to god that the military will catch enough hints from this NSC bullshit to take the right side in impending the civil war...
posted by tobascodagama at 5:29 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Has Bannon obtained any level of security clearance thus far? Is it even possible (*) for the president to effectively declassify information for certain individuals?

(*) Yes, clearly.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:29 PM on January 29, 2017

This is a good letter, but everyone should be aware that emails just get deleted unread.

I actually do get responses from emails to Ernst and Grassley - weirdly, even responses to Countable votes where I just click "No" and don't leave a comment - so they may actually read this one. I think it's probably down to Iowa's decent sunshine laws - as red as our state is right now we do have those and good redistricting laws (for now, of course...). But I am going to print and mail this, too.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:34 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is a comment I made on Reddit a couple of months ago:*

One possible way to interpret this story:

Ambitious young MBA and environmentally-aware democrat Steve Bannon got the job directing Biosphere II and was suddenly in contact with actual environmental scientists. As anyone in academia can tell you, this can be a sobering experience. Or a drunkening one.

Whatever the case, Steve was put in charge of a bunch of them doing an experiment whose mission was, in part, "...to study and monitor the impact of enhanced CO2 and other greenhouse gases on humans, plants, and animals."

I think they figured out what impact enhanced CO2 has on humans.

Even among environmentalists, doomerism is bad form. They've been under attack for being alarmist since the sixties, and they're hardwired by now to avoid the impression that they're convinced the world is ending. And they were probably pretty healthy, well-adjusted individuals, who have trouble processing the scale of the issue.

Young Steve is not obviousy overburdened with mental health, though, and he's an MBA. He's looking down the road to see where the profits are going to come from. He's sizing up the research, looking to use it to his advantage in his investments.

The project he headed had massive problems with CO2, with the health effects of the concentrations in the dome becoming evident. Young Steve takes a look at the health data, takes a look at atmospheric CO2 concentrations, and starts putting the pieces together.

He figures out the atmosphere will start killing us soon.

If you start from that premise, the future of humanity becomes all too clear. We keep getting sicker and dying faster, until the atmospheric concentration reaches the point where infants can't thrive, at which point humanity is done. And that's if the realization that we're dying doesn't tear the world apart first.

The only hope for anyone is to build habitats which can generate, at least in part, their own oxygen. Huge industrial projects that are going to take an enormous amount of power and money to get built.

As an ambitious, intelligent guy with a background in finance and a master's degree in national security, what would you do?

Well, you might run the research project off the rails, and use it to make sure people think environmentalists are idiots for decades.

You might go after power and money. Use media connections to make millionaire connections, then billionaire connections. You could maybe leverage a communications network and use it to spread enough disinformation to keep people from realizing what's going on. You could take advantage of a faith-based right-wing movement to spread your message and build your power base.

And eventually, you might take over the White House.

But that was decades ago, right? He's probably forgotten all about the Biosphere thing. He's an anti-environmental climate change denier, who's too droolingly stupid to even be aware of the data about climate change, right? He's in a little bubble where he never hears anything about actual science, totally ignorant.

His brother Chris has remained an administrator up until recent years and still works for the UA’s College of Science, which now runs Biosphere 2.

What do you think, too Game of Thrones?
posted by MrVisible at 5:36 PM on January 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

The US Uncut article about laws to allow killing protesters may or may not be clickbait, but it links to an article in the Guardian, which is usually not regarded as clickbait.
posted by lhauser at 5:40 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Hi, I'm a veteran, and I'd like to ask what the Senator's / Representative's response is to removing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence from the Principals Committee of the National Security Council. If you don't have one yet, I'll call back in an hour. If I don't like it then, I'll keep calling. I once spent three days in a tent during a sandstorm with a Lee Child novel and a box of MREs. I got all the patience I need, pal."

(Two Dem, one GOP. And I am fucking done with caring which fucking party they're in.)
posted by Etrigan at 5:41 PM on January 29, 2017 [167 favorites]

umm
posted by R.F.Simpson at 5:46 PM on January 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

I feel like the White House is basically the monkey sampan yt at this point, and we're floating by in the PBR going "Um if that's what we can see...what's upriver then?"

Heeeeere's Werner! That is no ship. That is no forest. That is no arrow.
posted by lagomorphius at 5:47 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

A federal judge has issued a stay on the patently illegal executive order. Border Patrol and Custom officers are refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of this, as is the administration.

Do we have a copy of the stay and the laws cited? According to the Dept of State's website, "A U.S. visa allows you to travel to a port of entry, airport or land border crossing, and request permission....to enter the United States.... ...having a visa does not guarantee entry to the United States,"....

In other words, US consular officials do not have the final word as regards entry to the US.

Not that USGov sites are completely reliable, but it does confuse the issue.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Yeah but what if he won't leave?"

Then we need to find a nice sturdy rail that can support his weight, and we carry him ourselves.
posted by sutt at 5:54 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

What do you think, too Game of Thrones?

i think we're closer to living in a pauly shore movie than a premium cable drama at this point
posted by murphy slaw at 5:58 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

>i think we're closer to living in a pauly shore movie than a premium cable drama at this point

Ah, yes, the movie that permanently made the idea of human habitats for hostile environments a laughingstock to the American public.

Good thing Steve Bannon's not an adept media manipulator.
posted by MrVisible at 6:02 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Where's Obama? Where's Hillary?

Jesus fucking Christ. This looks like a coup.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:07 PM on January 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

> This is a good letter, but everyone should be aware that emails just get deleted unread.

Not according to indivisibleguide.com:

YOUR MOC CARES A LOT ABOUT

Advocacy that requires effort — the more effort, the more they care: calls, personal emails, and especially showing up in person in the district

My House member happens to be a Republican in California. The executive order Friday inspired me to write to her. I had to submit my zip code to reach the contact form on her government website. Then I had to resubmit it again with the 4-digit extension to verify I was indeed within a part of the zip code within her district. I sent the following email:

I am a long-time registered voter in your district. This is the first time I have written to any elected official.

I am moved to write you by concern over the executive actions taken by President Donald Trump during his first week in office. In particular, I am revolted by the executive order President Trump signed Friday barring entry into the United States to migrants and refugees, including people holding American green cards, from seven predominantly Muslim countries. The order itself is a disgrace to American traditions and values. The implementation, without regard for the practical details and consequences, is a travesty.

Up to this point, I have heard supporters and apologists for candidate Trump dismiss his vague, crude, and careless remarks as empty rhetoric, tasteless jokes, or posturing designed to leverage future negotiating power. This is the first concrete example of the terrible impact President Trump's policies and ideas will have on actual people. I am afraid it will not be the last.

As a constituent, I hope you will take public action to counter this mean and reckless order. I will follow closely the actions of you and my other representatives between now and the elections in 2018. And I will vote, and advise others to vote, based on your record.

I confess that I publish it here with hesitation, as I had to include my personal identifying information in submitting it to my representative and I generally prefer to treat my various online profiles as characterizations, only loosely connected, if at all, to my real-world identity. Now, in a world in which Bannon sits on the National Security Council, more than ever.

The Bannon appointment is disturbing and surreal. The executive order had the benefit of being more tangible. I hope the people who just wanted to give Successful Businessman Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt are waking up to the nightmare he embodies.
posted by bunbury at 6:09 PM on January 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

No no no no no
posted by rmless at 6:10 PM on January 29, 2017

the press needs to be talking a *lot* about the reichstag fire. we want that to be the first thing on everyone's mind when the inevitable violence breaks out.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:21 PM on January 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

umm

This is probably a fuck up but very bad in its implications if not, right? (Not that the fuck Ip wouldn't imply some things too)
posted by Artw at 6:22 PM on January 29, 2017

The transcript of Bannon's talk at the Vatican is bizarre. There were several points where his train of thought seemed to derail, where he'd be making a point, but somewhere between starting to speak and finishing, things became twisted. As can be seen in the speeches and executive orders he's alleged to have been a part of writing, he's really not that good at the 1984 doublespeak he's trying to pass himself off as a master of. It's blatant, never subtle, always using a sledgehammer, never a light touch. The most blatant example is just the names of the executive orders. They're like a parody of badly written jingoism. I guess we should be grateful for the small things.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:23 PM on January 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

JoeZydeco: "Do I take solace in the fact that the current Trump organization is too fucking stupid to boil the frog slowly?"

In all seriousness, yes! Yes. Any nation, including America, can be subverted by a clever villain. But a stupid villain that makes it obvious what he's doing will never succeed.

Yes. I'm not an American, but I know that you will all make it through this. There will be pain and possibly tragedy (though I hope not), but when it's over and Trump is gone America will be stronger, because he'll have tried and failed to make it into something it's not.
posted by Kevin Street at 6:26 PM on January 29, 2017 [30 favorites]

If they took 3 weeks to do the same shit we probably wouldn't be hearing much of a peep from anybody.
posted by Artw at 6:30 PM on January 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

Anybody know what the pin Bannon's wearing in this WaPo pic signifies?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:31 PM on January 29, 2017

Does anybody know Mister Bannon's views on first use of nuclear weapons?
posted by bigbigdog at 6:31 PM on January 29, 2017

I hadn't seen this:

Former president Barack Obama’s national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, called the measure “stone cold crazy” in a tweet on Sunday.
posted by diogenes at 6:33 PM on January 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

Anybody know what the pin Bannon's wearing in this WaPo pic signifies?

It's a pin that the Secret Service has people wear, to identify staff - IIRC there's a new pin with new shapes and patterns every day.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:35 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

does anybody know if Bannon contains blood and organs or just maggots and ichor?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:35 PM on January 29, 2017 [38 favorites]

Just maggots.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 6:37 PM on January 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Bannon : Trump :: Rove : Bush
and Pence : Cheney
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 6:39 PM on January 29, 2017

Let's put the mosque shooting in the main politics thread; it's not Bannon/NSC related.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:39 PM on January 29, 2017

Where's Obama? Where's Hillary?

Well, I believe one of them was trying to warn us about the dangers of electing Trump, while the other was running a campaign against him.

We ignored them and focused on emails.

Like, I kind of think maybe we should be focusing on saving ourselves, given we spat in the faces of the people who were trying to save us before this all happened.
posted by Anonymous at 6:40 PM on January 29, 2017

Remember that guy at the end of the TNG episode "Conspiracy"? Kinda like that.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:40 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

You're confusing him with Ted Cruz.

Bannon contains 80 year old shredded brown uniforms held together and animated by carefully distilled malice.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:40 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

the press needs to be talking a *lot* about the reichstag fire. we want that to be the first thing on everyone's mind when the inevitable violence breaks out.

The Breitbart tin foil brigade is obsessed with the idea of false flag actions, just saying.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:42 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

One other thing that's been nagging at me with Steve Bannon is his connection to Putin and the Russian hacking operation. This is all still in conspiracy theory territory. But I find it strange that Trump would make this risky provocative move, which would have every appearance of insulting the military establishment, in order to install such an uncharismatic unlikeable fringe public figure. I would think Bannon would be much better suited to churning out administration talking points from a back room of the executive offices. Or at least taking a more specialized Cheney-like role in public, where he serves as press secretary to the angry bubble-wrapped right. He strikes me as a marketer, not a technocrat.

This Daily Kos article from last November throws out every connection it can find between Bannon and Putin's regime:

Everything You Need to Know About Steve Bannon, Breitbart, & Russia

Then there's this recent article in the New York Times about Russian intelligence agents suspected of aiding American investigators being charged with treason:

Russians Charged With Treason Worked in Office Linked to Election Hacking

Are these things -- Bannon, Breitbart, the Russian social media army, the DNC hacks, the Trump blackmail dossier, these arrests, this bizarre Bannon appointment -- all tied tightly together?

I guess I bring it up in hopes that someone here will point out some of the plotholes in this storyline. Meanwhile, I guess I'll just keep watching this horror show, waiting for this terrible plot to finally all come together.
posted by bunbury at 6:50 PM on January 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

End of "where's Obama? where's Hillary?" derail, thanks
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:55 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

What do you think, too Game of Thrones?
posted by MrVisible at 5:36 PM on January 29 [9 favorites +] [!]

Ok, I'll bite and shoot this one down.

CO2 is a very, very safe gas. It's so safe you can literally breath it.

Current CO2 levels are in the 400 ppm range, and we're considering 500 ppm to be devastating. Historically, they were in the 200-350 ppm range.

In contrast, the room you currently sit in is probably at 800 ppm, just because of your breath. If it's a new construction, well sealed, and you're with a few other people, it could be up to 1500 ppm or higher. I have a CO2 meter and I've seen 8 people in a kitchen bring it up to 2000 ppm.

It's not CO2 that is the problem, it's the fact that CO2 absorbs long wave solar radiation. So 500 ppm CO2, which is completely imperceptible to humans, traps more heat from the sun, heating the planet, and throwing our delicate ecosystems out of alignment.
posted by juice boo at 7:03 PM on January 29, 2017 [56 favorites]

The website Faxzero is offering free faxes to your elected officials, it might be a way to get through clogged phone lines and full voice mailboxes.
posted by JHarris at 7:10 PM on January 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

CO2 is a very, very safe gas. It's so safe you can literally breath it.

Yeah, but at about 1000 parts per million, which you probably experience several times a day, your cognitive abilities are impaired.

What kind of long-term effects might it have? Here's a speculative paper.
posted by MrVisible at 7:11 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I assume Bannon is made mostly of lunchmeat, cocktail onions, and a constant supply of cheap booze. You don't get that glossy coat and fine complexion by taking good care of yourself. How close do you have to be to smell the alcohol oozing out of his pores, I wonder?
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:11 PM on January 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

CO2 is a very, very safe gas. It's so safe you can literally breath it.

You mean all this time I could have been playing astronaut with dry cleaning bags?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:12 PM on January 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Ah, that was the Representative fax page. Here's the one for the Senate.
posted by JHarris at 7:13 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Every move Obama made had Republican Congressional leaders speaking out. I haven't seen anything from the Democrats in my news roundup page.

For the record, my former rep, the fantastic Sheila Jackson-Lee organized a press conference in Houston's airport and according to people there had refugees line up to tell their stories to the news cameras. The only place I've seen that is from people who were attending the protest. So I assume other members of Congress are also doing things, but it's not being covered nationally.
posted by threeturtles at 7:22 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not to derail, but Indiana had one of those bills directing police to use any means necessary to stop protests in the streets. It did not pass.
posted by bluespark25 at 7:24 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

How do we reach people like this? Is there nothing to be done? Will any attempt to reach out be shot down?

I've been trying for months. Their response is always the same. "The media is biased and ganging up on the president because they hate him."
posted by notreally at 7:26 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Get caught in bed with a live boy, or possibly a dead girl.

For those who don't know, this was a joke made by Edwin Edwards (D), the popular-but-corrupt former governor of Louisana made during a second run for governor, against the incubinent Republican, as the only way he wouldn't get elected.

Even more relevant, however, was the unofficial campaign slogan for his next run, against white supremesist, David Duke: "Vote for the crook. It's important."

[Wiki] Nearly the entire Republican leadership rejected Duke's candidacy. In a news conference, President George H. W. Bush condemned Duke as unfit for public office:[5]

"When someone has a long record, an ugly record, of racism and bigotry, that record simply cannot be erased by the glib rhetoric of a political campaign. So I believe David Duke is an insincere charlatan. I believe he's attempting to hoodwink the voters of Louisiana. I believe he should be rejected for what he is and what he stands for."

Too bad none of the Bushes had the courage to do this against Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:28 PM on January 29, 2017 [30 favorites]

CAIR organized a protest over the executive order in Copley Square in Boston today. On one day's notice, something like 10,000 to 15,000 people showed up, including US Senators Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey, US Rep. Joe Kennedy and Boston Mayor Marty Walsh (and City Councilor Tito Jackson, who's running against Walsh). After Walsh spoke, people began chanting "Where's Charlie Baker? Where's Charlie Baker?"
posted by adamg at 7:32 PM on January 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Not to derail, but Indiana had one of those bills directing police to use any means necessary to stop protests in the streets. It did not pass.

... that's the bill we're talking about, and from what I can tell on the Indiana Senate site, it hasn't even been voted on yet, so what are you talking about?
posted by kafziel at 7:34 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Try to stay on the narrow Bannon/NSC focus. General politics chatter can go in the other thread. From here on out I'm just deleting the off-topic and you can just assume that was why.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:47 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

T.D. Strange: "In which Bannon rants about forming the "church militant""

Does that mean I finally get power armor. all those implants, a bolt pistol and such?

The President protects!
posted by Samizdata at 8:02 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

My senator, Jack Reed (D-RI), just called out the NSC changes on Twitter, in a pretty good statement, here. Go, Jack, go!!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:05 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

It was clear that Trump's candidacy was going down the drain until Bannon commandeered it with his extreme views. Without Bannon Trump is an empty vessel.

But without the dead-eyed Kellyanne Conway and her dead eyes there is no President Bannon. She is the voice of Trump without the dirty hands of creating his policies. The rest may be delusional but she sold her soul [VF] for fame and power. Do not let Conway or her dead, dead eyes off the hook for any of this.

Nobody accidentally appoints a vocal white supremacist to be his primary adviser.

Unless someone else has something incriminating on them.

Who knew cars were so dangerous! Don't hang out in your cars, spy people.

D'oh! Russian spy linked to Donald Trump’s dirty dossier found DEAD in his car in Moscow [Kos]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:06 PM on January 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Has all the earmarks of a coup
posted by glaucon at 8:06 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

I assume Bannon is made mostly of lunchmeat, cocktail onions, and a constant supply of cheap booze

Cheap? Ha ha. By the time this group is done with the place there won't be a single dram of single-malt left in the whole place.
posted by rhizome at 8:11 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

the "church militant"

Well, Trump and Cersei do kinda have the same hairdo...
posted by elsietheeel at 8:12 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

I once spent three days in a tent during a sandstorm with a Lee Child novel and a box of MREs. I got all the patience I need, pal.

Oh Etrigan, I feel for you. You must have patience cause I gobble down a Lee Child novel in 24 hours.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:12 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

ah yes, like that famous thing Jesus said about "turn thy neighbor in"
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:37 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

What could Bannon possibly do short of having a fatal heart attack in the Oval Office that would get him forced out now?

He's visibly rotting on his feet - I'm optimistic about the heart attack.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

How to Culture Jam a Populist in Four Easy Steps

So this is a link I've seen floating around and I'm not trying to pick on the commenter putting it here but I think this is an appropriate jumping off point to discuss a thing.

The rules are broken and gone and have been for some time and we are just now realizing it. The steadfast strategy of dismantling the Voting Rights Act and gerrymandering has made the Electoral College incredibly powerful, to the point where it has now repeatedly given the highest office in the land to the minority of voters. The legislature straight up REFUSED the President his authority to appoint a Supreme Court Justice. There are law enforcement divisions (my nice word for groups of Fascist Fucking Pigs) that are explicitly acting against the directives of our judiciary. And so on and so on and so on and so on.

Points two and three in the link mentioned about "Culture Jamming" are to Show No Contempt and Don't Try to Force Him Out.

I don't know how else to say it other than that this is fucking horseshit.

We MUST show contempt, and more importantly, we MUST find a way to FORCE THESE FUCKERS OUT.

And I am no longer convinced that this happens democratically. I hate to say that, because it means that our democratic institutions have failed, but that is, I think, the only reasonable conclusion when Steve Bannon is in charge of extra-judicial aerial drone strikes.

I'm going to repeat that: Steve Bannon, self-admitted Lenninist who's goal is the destitution of the state, who is on record stating that his idols in power are Satan and Darth Vader, who's greatest claim to fame is running an explicitly fascist and anti-semitic 'newspaper' has control of the most powerful murder apparatus known to humankind.

Our democratic institutions have failed.

President Obama or Senator Warren are not going to helicopter in and save us. Bernie Sanders is not going to save us. Hillary Clinton (goddamnit, I miss you) is not going to save us.

The chants of "Show me what democracy looks like / This is what democracy looks like" are great and all, but that is LOSING.

Democracy is LOSING.

So what is next? I'm honestly asking. What is next? At what point will a significant enough percentage of this country decide that enough is enough, and guillotine these motherfuckers?
posted by lazaruslong at 8:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [44 favorites]

umm

This is probably a fuck up but very bad in its implications if not, right? (Not that the fuck Ip wouldn't imply some things too)

A quick comparison of the pre- and post-inauguration WH websites shows that the judicial branch was removed immediately after inauguration. Not only was the link removed, but the page itself to which the link directed was also removed.
posted by dhens at 8:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Vatican talk is interesting. Lot's of anti-corporatist talk that would warm a lefty's heart. Plenty of Onward Cristian Soldier's talk to chill it.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 8:59 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm never going to see the mountains in Iran now, am I?

Dunno. Did you register for the Selective Service when you turned 18?
posted by -1 at 9:09 PM on January 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

So what is next? I'm honestly asking. What is next? At what point will a significant enough percentage of this country decide that enough is enough, and guillotine these motherfuckers?

If your desire is to “guillotine the motherfuckers” then you also desire an unconstitutional destruction of the state. Fine if that’s what you’re for, but know yourself, and know that I’d march against you.

One of the points that Vaclav Havel makes in his excellent The Power of The Powerless is that violent won’t work if the state is essentially stable and providing necessary services to people - because people would rather have a working state. America, frankly, is still providing services to most of its people. Employment is high. Crime is down, as crazy as people are acting. You’re not going to get your military coup. (Of course, the world has changed a lot this past week. Depending on how much more changes, maybe you’ll get your wish. God help us all.)
posted by Going To Maine at 9:11 PM on January 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

The point is, the unconstitutional destruction of the state is already happening, to the benefit of fascists. Playing by the rules is losing.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:13 PM on January 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I can read your comment. It states your position.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:15 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

He's visibly rotting on his feet - I'm optimistic about the heart attack.

He may actually be some kind of evilly animated corpse, possibly driven by squirming maggots. Like all these fuckers I suspect he will go on a long, long time after you'd hope he would.
posted by Artw at 9:18 PM on January 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

If any Mefite works maintenance in the Capitol, please double-check the sprinkler system.
posted by flabdablet at 9:20 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

Could we walk back the "let's throw a coup" nonsense, please? I mean, when you're declaring that the elected* President of the USA is eroding democracy, it's a bit odd to be insisting that the violent overthrow of democracy is a great solution.

Also, we've been "playing by the rules" in resisting Trump for less than a month. Bit early for grand declarations that nonviolence and the exercise of civil rights is totes a failure and we need a historically unprecedented** violent breach of of our political institutions to save us from a Nazi, President Orange, and a mob of spineless GOP yes-men.

*Yes, he was elected. He was elected under rules (EC, gerrymandering, etc.) that should have been changed long since. That we should have made a priority of changing after the 2000 election. But the steam went out of that after Obama was elected and we all decided that a system that produced victory for the guy we liked didn't need to be changed right now, and we went into the 2016 election with those ruled unchanged and we knew it. Channel some of that anger at the person into actually changing the rules this time, and we can prevent this from happening again.

**We maintained democracy, the rule of law, and the orderly succession of elected officials through a civil fucking war, for christsakes. Most of our history up through the 1950s included levels of formal exclusion of the electorate and informal corruption of the electoral process that would boggle the mind if anyone bothered to familiarize themselves with the history anymore. Those problems were overcome by activists and politicians operating under vastly greater constraints than we do today. We're facing a bad situation, not an unprecedented one, and we are doing so with powerful and legitimate tools of resistance. Let' s use them instead of strutting around airily chatting up how nothing ever goes wrong when the Right People Are Holding The Gun.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:31 PM on January 29, 2017 [84 favorites]

I assume Bannon is made mostly of lunchmeat, cocktail onions, and a constant supply of cheap booze

My opinion is that Trump and Bannon were both abused and traumatized as promising children, which made them into super bullies. Bannon wants a traditionalist society so he can return to the happy place in his head. Trump could never please his father by doing everything right and still got brutalized by his strict German upbringing, then his father died before he could prove himself. Now he has to act like his abusive father to the whole world in order to please his memory. The downside is that these two anti-social man-babies will create large amounts of chaos so nobody figures out what they are really doing. That's why things are happening so fast. Trump has declared that he will force Mexico to pay for his wall, which demonstrates a public level of dishonor that brazenly assumes everyone in America condones cheating others. Never mind that the wall is economically outdated by twenty years since the internet made labor verification possible, the other fact is that Mexico can actually build the wall out of cinder block with cheaper labor for a fraction of the price, but he isn't even contracting them to do it, because he is trying to humiliate them that way. He just requires them to pay for it, after using our pubic tax funds. This would be absurdly incompetent if Trump hadn't already hinted that they would pay in some unmentionable way, no doubt with land, probably large parts of Baja. A resort builders dream, and so this is really all for him.
posted by Brian B. at 9:35 PM on January 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

If any Mefite works maintenance in the Capitol, please double-check the sprinkler system.

Chimera Sequence? *thumbsup*
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 9:36 PM on January 29, 2017

(Alternately: stop paying attention to the minority of the country that is okay with the current situation, and start paying attention to the majority that hates the current President and that seems to be protesting. Protest is not losing, even if it isn’t immediate change. The ACLU getting 120 MILLION DOLLARS (literally) is not losing, it is winning. This is what grass-roots standing up for our institutions looks like. Nothing is finished. This is legitimate mass protest against bad things. I mean, fuck it, the Tea Party didn’t see support like this -and, beeteedubs, the Kochs have also come out against the Muslim Ban, because this is the crazy world in which we live- and successfully accomplished its entire agenda. If we can’t do better than the Tea Party, we deserve what we’re getting.)
posted by Going To Maine at 9:37 PM on January 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

He's organizing people under the meme the Church Militant.

the Church Militant (Latin: Ecclesia militans), ... consists of Christians on earth who struggle as soldiers of Christ against sin, the devil, and "the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places"

That is some Orwellian doublespeak.

To give some background: "the church militant" is a pretty commonly-understood phrase in Christian theology -- it's typically used to refer to the Church on Earth which is struggling against sin and Satan, as opposed to the Church Triumphant which comprises the saints who have died and are with Christ in Heaven.

With the caveat that I'm by no means an expert on Islamic theology, I think the concept's similar to the Islamic concept of 'jihad' in its original meaning of 'spiritual struggle'. (I also note that both traditions have a history, both past and present, of using spiritual warfare terminology to go after perceived opponents of the Faith, and I by no means am trying to justify or elide that.)

For that reason, the "Church militant / church triumphant" terminology doesn't come up a lot today in mainstream Christian usage. It would be felt to be a bit old-fashioned even in most Evangelical circles, I think -- sort of like reading pre-'68 stuff that uses 'Negro' for 'black' -- precisely because it's felt that this use of very militaristic terminology or metaphors isn't great.

See also: the Salvation Army; numerous older hymns, like Onward, Christian Soldiers which is a great, lusty tune but sadly the lyrics are -- well, not literally problematic, but the whole martial metaphor is a bit much.

So Bannon's attempt to bring this sort of fusty phrasing back, now filled with white-nationalist undertones, is a bit of a red flag to me -- though on the other hand, it's not that alarming since we already know mostly what he is.

Does Bannon have like a personal website or some place that he's put writings together? I'd be very interested to look at what his actual theological influences or whatever are -- although I don't know as much about right-wing political Roman Catholicism as I do about Protestantism.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:43 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

So what is next? I'm honestly asking. What is next? At what point will a significant enough percentage of this country decide that enough is enough, and...

What's next is that Trump holds office for four years and gets booted out by a Democrat who campaigns primarily on economic issues. There isn't going to be a coup or an impeachment. Trump will toss rust belt voters and establishment Republicans just enough to keep the hounds at bay.

Most of the protesting is being done to keep voters engaged for the midterms not to unseat Trump from power.
posted by Beholder at 9:44 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Super Jesus-y of them to bring that into everything.
posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on January 29, 2017

(Alternately: stop paying attention to the minority of the country that is okay with the current situation, and start paying attention to the majority that hates the current President and that seems to be protesting. Protest is not losing, even if it isn’t immediate change. The ACLU getting 120 MILLION DOLLARS (literally) is not losing, it is winning. This is what grass-roots standing up for our institutions looks like. Nothing is finished. This is legitimate mass protest against bad things. I mean, fuck it, the Tea Party didn’t see support like this -and, beeteedubs, the Kochs have also come out against the Muslim Ban, because this is the crazy world in which we live- and successfully accomplished its entire agenda. If we can’t do better than the Tea Party, we deserve what we’re getting.)

It's a weird world when I see hope in the fact that the Kochs and the GOP are still going full steam ahead expecting difficult, bitter election fights, but there it is.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:49 PM on January 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Dominionism is at root Reformed political fundamentalism, though, not Roman Catholic. That's why I'm kind of curious to see how Bannon has pieced together his theocratic beliefs.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:55 PM on January 29, 2017

Or it may just be that the various theocratic streams are well and truly crossed, in the Internet age.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:58 PM on January 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, I expect this makes things significantly more difficult for those US troops on the ground trying to convince locals to work with them. Who on earth would take that kind of risk now and why should they?
posted by genuinely curious at 10:00 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

My opinion is that Trump and Bannon were both abused and traumatized as promising children, which made them into super bullies.

Please don't. Plenty of people have had childhood trauma and the vast majority of them don't become bullies, let alone neo-nazis or bloviating narcissistic racist misogynist demagogues.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:00 PM on January 29, 2017 [63 favorites]

Steve Bannon puts me in mind of the kind of kid who used to read books like this, because I was the kind of kid who used to read books like that. Only he thought, "Wow - that's cool! How could I make that happen?"
posted by lagomorphius at 10:02 PM on January 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Because people are talking about how to write your members of Congress: try out EFF's democracy.io.

I don't think it's ever been posted on Metafilter. I can't post it as an FPP because it would be too close to a self-link.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:07 PM on January 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

What's next is that Trump holds office for four years and gets booted out by a Democrat who campaigns primarily on economic issues. There isn't going to be a coup or an impeachment. Trump will toss rust belt voters and establishment Republicans just enough to keep the hounds at bay.

Most of the protesting is being done to keep voters engaged for the midterms not to unseat Trump from power.

Seriously? I think the coup talk is potentially a bit over-excited, but this is an administration that only seven days in, tried to revoke the rights of ten million+ legal permanent residents, most of whom have lived in the US for years or decades, who had (save the right to vote and to access some benefits), all the everyday social rights that US citizens have -- the right to work, the right to leave and to reenter the county -- until, suddenly, a Decree was promulgated on Friday last. It is still unclear to me, in fact, what is actually happening; whether a legal permanent resident who, say, happened to go to Niagara Falls, ON for the weekend could (or might) be detained upon reentry to the US.

Things are not normal, this is not normal, we may or may not have a political structure that looks anything like our current structure in four years. It's certainly not a given.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:15 PM on January 29, 2017 [39 favorites]

books like this

That's a link that could go anywhere in the I Don't Even Own A Trlevision canon.

(I was expecting the Gor books)
posted by Artw at 10:18 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

He's visibly rotting on his feet - I'm optimistic about the heart attack.

I think the fashionable name for this look is "Gin-Soaked"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:21 PM on January 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Incidentally, Trump's schedule for tomorrow includes another executive order in the morning. So take a deep breath now. Could be something, could be nothing. But it's going to be a busy one hundred days for everyone.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:29 PM on January 29, 2017

This piece goes into some more detail on the "church militant" use in Bannon's Vatican speech. The Catholic catechism replaced the term with "pilgrims on earth" in 1992. Bannon's usage in terms of a cultural and military clash is in stark contrast to the original understanding of inner spiritual struggle.
posted by earth by april at 10:30 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is there a script anywhere for how to express myself on this issue to my elected representatives (all Republicans)? Because I'm stuck on this "This is unacceptable and shameful, and you need to do SOMETHING" before spluttering into expletives.

5 calls: provides numbers & scripts for you to call your representatives. An example.

Updates on Twitter

90210 is the only US zip code I know by heart.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:34 PM on January 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

> 90210 is the only US zip code I know by heart.

Boston Mass Oh Two One Three Four for those of us of a Certain Age who grew up in the US.
posted by rtha at 11:40 PM on January 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

And for those of us who grew up with old game shows, there's the Spiegel Catalog, Chicago 60609.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:56 PM on January 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's a reason why Bannon was able to step foot in the Vatican -- high level liches are really hard to turn for even the most skilled clerics. Now if we only could figure out what his phylactery is, we might stand a chance.
posted by benzenedream at 12:12 AM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

what about Scruff McGruff, Chicago, Illinois, 60652
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:13 AM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

i'm china, i put the heat on bannon tomorrow - low yield test.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:21 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't being a Leninist incompatible with religion? Because I sincerely do not buy his attempts to talk about "judeo-Christian culture" as anything than waving the phrase around like a backstage pass to show he belonged in that conference. I mean, he clearly isn't speaking from a place of belief full any time he starts to say anything about Jews that isn't "we should kill more of them," and I can't imagine a Leninist viewing the church and Christianity as anything more than a tool for achieving goals.

To me, having been lucky enough to only glimpse a bit of this asshole this far, Bannon has some image of a society where miserable alcoholic shits like himself are praised and valuable members of society, and will use any tool to get to that, pay lip service to anything that will be a (gullible) temporary ally. Hell, at least nihilists believe in nothing. He believes in himself, and that his level is where the world should be dragged down to.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:33 AM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yeah, without wishing to be all "no true Scotsman" about it I'm [stage-whisper] pretty sure he's not actually religious [/stage-whisper]
posted by tel3path at 2:39 AM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

Meanwhile in Australia, our treasurer (and previous abominable immigration minister) is taking credit that "the rest of the world is catching up to Australia" and our Prime Minister has demurely pointed out that it would be rude for him to denounce Trumpery. So we'll be joining youse in the handbasket shortly, save us a seat.

If I can quell my nausea enough to analyse these statements, I feel I can kind of see a trend towards Anglo-Saxon pan-nationalism emerging. Australia and the US hatched a bizarre refugee swap deal in the last months of the Obama administration for us to give the US some of our headache Afghan and Middle Eastern refugees in exchange for the US to give us some of their headache Costa Rican refugees. That the Trump administration has apparently told the AusGov that they will make an exemption in the immigration EO tells me that they want to go the extra mile to maintain the Australian relationship, which stands out to me in conjunction with the joint press conference with Theresa May this week. The only countries (besides Russia and Israel) that they have not actively alienated. I mean, sure Australia likes to think it's a regional power, but really what we have going for us in the current US political climate is a history of Anglo colonisation and our own blend of systemic racism that I'm sure makes Steve Bannon quiver.

Forging a stronger relationship with the US under Trump, who wants some trade war with China, a trading partner responsible for 5% of Australia's GDP*, might not seem like a good strategy for our economic survival out of the next decade, but the same can be said for all our government's major economic policy decisions so what else is new.

Anyway a small reflection on the ripples washing across the ocean onto our shores, my thoughts are with you up there who have to manage the tsunami.

We will all have to fight soon.

*the most dependent economy on China in the world, thanks Bloomberg I didn't know
posted by chiquitita at 3:06 AM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

tel3path, what gets me is that Eddie Haskell-ness of it. He says what each audience wants to hear, and is clearly disingenuous, but somehow gets away with it. It's amazing how morally and spiritually bankrupt he must be. With all of the stuff going around about psychologists diagnosing Trump as a narcissist, Bannon has found his perfect in, a patsy that will let him do whatever he wants as long as he throws the patsy a bit of praise every once in a while. It's vile.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:21 AM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

But there it is, plenty of people are just like this. Both Annoying Orange and his puppeteer are like any 10 people I've worked with - or usually, for, since they tend to get promoted if they're not in charge already. Regardless of how true the charges of mental unfitness may seem or actually be, people like this are everywhere and there's nothing even slightly unusual about them. Obviously it's unusual for them to become President, but since they're so commonplace it was only a matter of time.

That's why major sections of the population don't see through them - because they're just the same themselves, or else are just too dumb to see any difference.
posted by tel3path at 3:30 AM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

No matter your political views, the fact that the White House is attempting to circumvent legal advice, install dubious appointees to incredible powerful national security positions and violate court orders is outrageous and despicable, so let’s be clear: Congress needs to quickly move towards impeachment if this is true.

Trevor Timm, The Muslim ban has brought the US close to constitutional crisis, Guardian (30 January 2017).
posted by Sonny Jim at 3:52 AM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

90210 is the only US zip code I know by heart.

It doesn't appear in the movie, but the full address (which is useful for telemarketers and such) is 1060 West Addison, Chicago IL 60613.

[galaxyquest] Those poor mail sorters... [galaxyquest]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:24 AM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Because I sincerely do not buy his attempts to talk about "judeo-Christian culture" as anything than waving the phrase around like a backstage pass to show he belonged in that conference.
In The Netherlands most people are not religious and religion does not play a significant role in politics at all, but the phrase "judeo-christian culture" is used a lot. It's a phrase that people love because it makes it sound like the culture we associate with it has existed for millennia, as if our culture hasn't changed a lot in even the past 50 years. It is very clearly meant to contrast "our" culture with "muslim culture" and has nothing to do with christianity and even less with judaism. It's also a convenient word to erase christian anti-semitism, because if we're the same culture, anti-semitism is obviously not a thing. Here is a Dutch article about the term by Max Pam, who writes (translation mine): jews know exactly what the judeo-christian tradition means: pogroms, persecution and annihilation.
posted by blub at 4:32 AM on January 30, 2017 [39 favorites]

Trial balloon for a coup
An indepth analysis of the last few days
"Trump is likely to want his own intelligence service disjoint from existing ones and reporting directly to him; given the current staffing and roles of his inner circle, Bannon is the natural choice for them to report through."
posted by adamvasco at 5:35 AM on January 30, 2017 [31 favorites]

Going to Maine: I apologize. I came across as fighty and pushy and that sucks. Honestly these last four days have been a blur of protests, two jobs, school, and alcohol and I'm feeling frayed. Sorry again.
posted by lazaruslong at 5:55 AM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hopefully more and more business leaders start to realize this:

If the president can, without consulting the courts or Congress, banish U.S. lawful permanent residents, then he can do anything. If there is no rule of law for some people, there is no rule of law for anyone. The reason the U.S. is a good place to do business is that, for the last 228 years, it has built a firm foundation on the rule of law. It almost undid that in a weekend. That's bad for business.
posted by diogenes at 6:00 AM on January 30, 2017 [52 favorites]

"Don't you think he looks ~~tired~~ like a lich?"
posted by Servo5678 at 6:21 AM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Spare Us the Theatrics
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 7:05 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

That's it. Who's a big boy, now?
posted by zakur at 7:05 AM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

I guess Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP goons will fall in line with whatever Steve wants.

If we don't make a good dent in purging the GOP come the mid-terms, I think we're doomed.
posted by james33 at 7:10 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spare Us the Theatrics

because of course everyone concerned about trump's abuses of power was totally silent when executive power creeped during the Obama and Bush administrations.

please take your concern elsewhere, we have an actual crisis here.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:23 AM on January 30, 2017 [31 favorites]

I've always thought Bannon had the look of a functional alcoholic, I've known a few and that sort of vaguely glassy eyed but overly attentive look he always seems to have is exactly how the alcoholics I knew looked when they imagined no one knew they were drunk at work. It's the "yes, I'm fooling them, I've got my buzz on and I'm hiding it, this plan is good and is working" look.

He wouldn't be the first alcoholic President we've had, but it's distressing to think that the President is just a few shots away from either blotto drunkenness, or suffering DT's depending on whether he's had a few too many or not quite enough.

Is there a long term plan at the White House, or are even Bannon and Priebus making it up as they go along? I mean, obviously Trump has no plan that's a given. But the smart people trying to influence him, do they have real plans? Is it really a plot to establish a dictatorship, or are they just pushing to see how much they can get away with?

I'm actually hoping the answer is plot, because if they're just sort of randomly trying stuff to see what works they might randomly start serious shit they can't stop, and that might happen with a plan too but I'd feel better knowing they were at least trying something deliberately instead of just blundering through. And, if it really is a plan, enough pushback might make them reconsider. While if they're just sort of making it up as they go along I don't think they'll stop so easily.
posted by sotonohito at 7:23 AM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

A few comments removed. Y'all, again please try to keep this relatively focused to the current situation rather than wheeling off into pet topics.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:32 AM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Haven't read any of the comments yet, but I think this is the thing that has finally pushed me over the edge. The edge of what? Not sure yet.
posted by staggering termagant at 7:46 AM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

The ACLU getting 120 MILLION DOLLARS (literally) is not losing, it is winning.

Ugh. Shouldn't we try not to accept that whole ugly winners/losers binary that's so important and central to the Trumps and Bannons of our world. It seems pretty clear to me that's as close to any sort of core ideology they have. Accepting any part of that sort of framing now only helps to normalize their crazy pants worldview, I think. Anti-social types are obsessed with winning and competition even as a diagnostic criterion, I believe...
posted by saulgoodman at 7:49 AM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Shouldn't we try not to accept that whole ugly winners/losers binary that's so important and central to the Trumps and Bannons of our world.

Respectfully disagree. It's an ugly binary, but it's what sustains Trump both internally and in his popular image, and we don't have the luxury of choosing among principled ways to take him down. The way to beat him in less than four years is to make him feel and look like the loser he's always been terrified of becoming. His ego is is gaping, glowing-video-game-boss-style-weakness.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:03 AM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Thanks for that link to democracy.io, roll truck roll. Slick!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:03 AM on January 30, 2017

Okay, that antiwar thing is garbage for these reasons:

First, because it's like saying that your house burning down is no biggie because after all, you had that grease fire in your frying pan last year. A difference in quantity becomes a difference in kind, as the man said.

Second, because the idea that no one who is protesting now protested Obama is substantially, materially false. The people who are organizing the protests now, here, are known to me from their many years of work on immigration/deportation issues. Yes, this situation is getting people on the street because of Trump's general unpopularity and terrifying policies, but policies that are aggressively worse and scarier always do this. The slice of the left that promulgates this "admit that you were all huge fans of Obama, sheeple" line is self-indulgent and mendacious.

And third - buried in that article is the idea that Trump is going to be a functionally anti-war president because the US will be turning the various wars and interventions in the Middle East over to Russia. This is probably the worst articulation of "American isolationism will be anti-war in effect" that I have ever encountered. "Russia will do it so American hands will be clean" doesn't even make any kind of moral sense, even if we don't end up in a shooting war with China and/or Bannon doesn't goose-step us all into some further Middle East adventures.

Certain people on the left are still entranced by the idea of minimizing Trump because it makes their previous prognostications look less wrong. This is baffling to me.
posted by Frowner at 8:04 AM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]

My opinion is that Trump and Bannon were both abused and traumatized as promising children, which made them into super bullies.

They are 70 and 63 years old respectively.

Adult bullies are adults who chose to be bullies.
posted by srboisvert at 8:20 AM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

Ugh. Shouldn't we try not to accept that whole ugly winners/losers binary that's so important and central to the Trumps and Bannons of our world.

Naturally, I can't speak for jason_steakums, but for me the difference between how people like Trump/Bannon process "winning/losing" and how the people protesting and helping orgs like the ACLU, SPLC do it comes down to coercion vs. self-empowerment. The Trump administration wants to grind people down into accepting their policies as immovable objects -- their victory condition is cutting off all dissent. The various resistance movements are trying to change hearts and minds, and to activate the solid, statistical majority of people who did not want our country to take this path, many of whom may have felt trepidation in speaking out before, into taking up the cause of representative democracy and justice as our own. For the resistance, winning is about successfully showing the nation and the world that Trump and others like him do not speak for us.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:21 AM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

I feel like I should clarify that a coup - or counter-coup, I guess - is the second, maybe third worst outcome here. Coup and revolution fantasies are for people who need to read more history. They're bloody, and awful, and the last faction standing on the biggest pile of 'counter revolutionaries' almost inevitably seems to recreate the worst aspects of the state they replace.

there's so few wars of people's liberation
for the people have so seldom risen; only the armed faction
listen, the armed faction lies
they recreate the state through their action

-Utah Phillips

Hence "I barely recognize myself". What the actual? I know better. Not from any kind of direct experience, though I have relatives who came up in S. America during troubled times. It took decades before my stepfather stopped stocking the house like a compound on the deep assumption (never explicitly stated) that we might not be able to leave, or that supply chains could collapse next week. I know enough to understand that the last thing I want is direct experience.

It's just become that clear, that quickly, that we're heading towards... something ... and I have no faith in the state, no faith in secure communication, and no idea what happens next.

Hope that clarifies that I'm not a bloody-minded dumbass :)

Now, back to the thread. It's been hours, who the hell knows what's happened while I slept.
posted by BS Artisan at 8:31 AM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

They are 70 and 63 years old respectively.

Adult bullies are adults who chose to be bullies.

I've got no strong opinion on the childhood bullying theory, but it's worth pointing out that noting the forces that lead somebody to develop into an awful person does not absolve them of responsibility for being an awful person.

I feel like this is a common straw man from the right: "Oh, you liberals think that because the murderer had a rough childhood we should feel sorry for him and not hold him accountable for his actions." Of course people should be held accountable for their actions, but that doesn't mean we should refuse to examine the forces that motivate them to act as they do.
posted by contraption at 8:33 AM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

I dropped my kids off at school, went to the grocery store and stocked up on bottled water, canned goods, and dry milk (partly out of paranoia but also because I moved last spring and hadn't yet stocked up), then came home and used Fax Zero's handy page for faxing your congressional representatives and Senators to fax my rep and both senators, using @jason_steakums letter from earlier in the thread as a framework for writing my own short, three paragraph letter.

Crossing items off my resistance to-do list is the only way I can get through the days, lately.
posted by annathea at 8:40 AM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Please read adamvasco's link. The real show is behind the scenes while the immigration stuff was the distraction. Trump is trying to discredit and depower the existing agencies because they are the greatest threat remaining to him. This will be thrilling reading in 20 years assuming we all live through it.
posted by benzenedream at 8:48 AM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

I feel like I should clarify that a coup - or counter-coup, I guess - is the second, maybe third worst outcome here.

We have agents of the executive branch flagrantly ignoring court orders requiring them to stop illegal and unconstitutional activities. The coup is already happening, whether we want it or not.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:55 AM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]

Yonatan Zunger's theory (here) is highly plausible: that the Muslim ban was a stress test, a way to see if the Department of Homeland Security (and other agencies) would ignore court orders and other checks on executive power. Bannon and co. (who apparently drafted the exec order before inauguration) are throwing out feelers, probing to see what they can get away with, who the opposition is, and where they can seize power. This, in the first week of Trump's presidency, was a "trial balloon for a coup", and is just the beginning.
posted by AceRock at 8:58 AM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

Respectfully disagree. It's an ugly binary, but it's what sustains Trump both internally and in his popular image,

I get where you're coming from, I think, but there's always a danger: to get down low to fight somebody low down, you might end up with a permanent stoop yourself (like the old "choose your enemies wisely..." spiel). At least, it's worth being mindful of, so later when things are back to normal and the crisis is over (if it ever is), people can excise the ugly habits of thought and action. The resistance has to observe higher standards of decency or they'll eventually alienate too many allies and loyalists to succeed; the dems and some activists could benefit from using more common sense and less sanctimony when it comes to choosing those ethical battles for a while, but we can't stop fighting them in the long run.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:02 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yonatan Zunger's theory has been scaring the pants off of me and I've been challenging folks on social media to poke hole in it because it's just too frightening. I've been reading up on impeachment and I plan to call my rep and ask her if she is pushing for it.. for Trump and Bannon.
posted by antinomia at 9:33 AM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

The real show is behind the scenes while the immigration stuff was the distraction.

The immigration stuff led to White House staff saying on the record that they and the President are going to ignore a court order. It's not a distraction, it's a fucking probe.
posted by Etrigan at 9:41 AM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

hippybear: Bannon : Trump :: Rove : Bush

Frightening but true.

True, but also different: both _rump and Pres. Bannon want the spotlight, except _rump is petty and vindictive about that kind of thing. Rove was more canny, happy to work from the shadows. Also, he was a hell of a lot more crafty with his plans, because he wanted them to actually work, not cause chaos and hopefully stick.

Also, I don't think Bannon is nearly as scary, because I can't imagine that Pres. Bannon could get someone to apologize for getting shot by him. I don't know if _rump could even pull that off, TBH.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on January 30, 2017

I feel like I should clarify that a coup - or counter-coup, I guess - is the second, maybe third worst outcome here.
---
We have agents of the executive branch flagrantly ignoring court orders requiring them to stop illegal and unconstitutional activities. The coup is already happening, whether we want it or not.

Hence counter-coup. I'm paying attention, I assure you... I just want things straight with as few bodies as possible, and am a little appalled at myself to realize how little I'd blink before cheering one on.

That's not who I was 30 days ago. Or maybe it was and I had the luxury of not knowing it.
posted by BS Artisan at 9:48 AM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

This will be thrilling reading in 20 years assuming we all live through it.

Or it could be thrilling reading now, if it resembles the subject of a MeFi fpp, the book "The Twentieth Day of January", which came out in 89, and is now out of print.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:51 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

The immigration stuff led to White House staff saying on the record that they and the President are going to ignore a court order. It's not a distraction, it's a fucking probe.

Can't source it right now, but there was a tweet going around to the effect of "everything about Trump's presidency can't be a distraction from everything else about Trump's presidency".
posted by tobascodagama at 9:53 AM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

I like how the anti-semite made most of his money off Seinfeld. *sigh*

Look, doing something you know how to do well is more productive than anything else.

Stress is a natural outcome of confusion, fear of the unknown.
And "Confusion is a word we have invented for an order which is not yet understood." - Henry Miller

The "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional" thing is not just a gung-ho slogan. If you can choose what you're stressed about, you can choose not to swallow it.
If you don't do something about it to ensure the outcome you want, someone else will. And you won't get the outcome you want.

I mean, I read this thread - N'thing the solid information and good folks thing - but relax your perception. Knowing everything isn't going to protect your goals.
Yesterday is gone, tomorrow never gets here. The only thing you should worry about is today.

The world is always ending. The evil hordes are always on the horizon led by the strong man. And they always lose.
Not because we fight them (although that's sometimes necessary) but because they get outmoded.
(Plenty of opinions on "how" but I think we're all on board with why)
In order to get a change, there needs to be a failure in the first place.
In order to avoid bodies, you need to alleviate tension, which means eliminating your fear and the fear in your organization (y'are organized already, yeah?).
Which means accepting the pain of change as a matter of course and focusing on reaching goals.

What those are, depends on playing to your personal strengths.

On my end, I'd like to make sure Bannon, et.al. aren't paying lip service to Mattis' perspective on torture and end run the joint cheifs, et.al. (If you remember, Bushco's NSC told the CIA (through Rice) that there would be no briefing the President on torture)

So, we'll see. Patience and wait for an opportunity to act.

Meantime, organize. Develop strategy. Etc. Plenty of people walking away from working for this administration. They'll probably have some time on their hands.
posted by Smedleyman at 10:24 AM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

.
posted by Theta States at 10:24 AM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

"everything about Trump's presidency can't be a distraction from everything else about Trump's presidency".

Yeah, the "it's a distraction!" stuff plays into the same paranoid but-you're-in-the-know style and human impulse that I think things like infowars trade on.

Of course, it is true that how people use attention -- particularly how attention is collectively focused -- is weird sometimes, including attention to things that may distract from larger issues. And I think that happens with Trump. We do get upset and spend time talking about some things that are relatively trivial problems.

But the whole "Muslim ban is a distraction thing" doesn't pass one rule-of-thumb: if it's a real problem, it's not just a distraction (it might get used that way, but that ain't all it is). Arbitrary travel or immigration bans from a foreign country based primarily on their religious makeup are a problem.
posted by wildblueyonder at 10:41 AM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

Bannon and Charles Mudede seem to agree, that cosmopolitan progressives and neo-liberal corporatists are aligned, and are the enemy.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:47 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

The immigration stuff led to White House staff saying on the record that they and the President are going to ignore a court order.

They have signaled on this from the get-go with their Jackson love & comparisons.

“John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it.”

Though President Jackson’s exact words were a bit different, the sentiment remained. Enforcing the ruling would mean not only deviating from his own ideology, but alienating a state that shared his core beliefs. So he decided to undermine the system of checks and balances and ignore the ruling. Without the president’s enforcement of the Supreme Court’s ruling, the opinion largely meant nothing. Samuel Worcester remained imprisoned in Milledgeville and the militia of Georgia was free to encroach on Cherokee land.

posted by phearlez at 10:49 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

(Also, I made an ebook out of the Power of the Powerless website with some cleaned up formatting. If you’re interested, you can memail me for a copy.)
posted by Going To Maine at 11:28 AM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't think that section of the US Code applies to the NSC, as the position is not a "Secretary [or] Under Secretary". Furthermore, AFAIK, the NSC is an advisory body and not the head of any executive or military department.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:29 AM on January 30, 2017

Trump isn't a master of populism like Hugo Chavez. Hugo Chavez was popular winning his first Presidential election with 56% of the votes.

"Trump: Like Hugo Chavez, but not as popular."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:31 AM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

jason_steakums, thank you so much for sharing your letter to your Senators. I hope you don't mind - I borrowed some for my own:

Dear Senator Feinstein,

I am terrified by the addition of white nationalist Steve Bannon to the National Security Council and even more terrified by the demotion and exclusion of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence.

I am writing to ask you these things:

1. Will you commit publicly to pushing for the removal of Steve Bannon from the National Security Council and the reinstatement of the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence as permanent, mandatory members of that Council through any means available to you as a Senator?

2. Will you push to fast-track S. 200, the Restricting First Use of Nuclear Weapons Act of 2017, and do everything you can to get it passed as quickly as possible?

3. Will you do everything in your power as a Senator to ensure that the entire Executive Branch complies with court orders, and to take action if they do not?

I would like a response. Email is fine, or whatever method requires the least work from your overworked staff.

I would also like to thank you profoundly for your immediate statement denouncing the Muslim ban and for the two bills you announced yesterday. It is deeply inspiring to be represented by a Senator who responds so quickly with both word and action. Thank you.

P.S. I have tried calling the DC and district offices but I couldn’t get through.

Sending a similar one to Senator Kamala Harris (minus the bit about introducing the bills). Sent via fax, due to the clogged phone lines.
posted by kristi at 11:46 AM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

kristi, nicely done! I'm shamefaced; after emailing my representatives (also because the phone lines were busy or the default mailboxes were full), I spent time emailing the too-few, ban-critical Republican politicians (sometimes using their district's post office address to get the contact form to send, but admitting to that in the message) to thank them for putting our country's best interests above party platform.

Then I probably undid any good by closing with something like, "I'm not at all political savvy, but is switching your party affiliation an option? It's not fair decent, dedicated public servants are getting lumped in with Nazis," because I'm so angry.
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 12:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

kafziel: "One of those reasons is becoming clear now, because the Joint Chiefs are no longer on the National Security council. It consists entirely of Donald Trump, Reince Priebus, and Steve Bannon. So the decision to approve the targeted killing of a US citizen lies entirely and exclusively in the hands of Donald Trump, the head of the RNC's campaign finances, and a Nazi propagandist. Without review or oversight."

I always hated this open, mundane, extra judicial killing. It was so obviously open to abuse even if one accepted the vetting conditions as being sufficient and appropriate. That there was a scheduled meeting to approve each week's target cut some of the legitimacy of the review process as now there was incentive at several levels to come up with targets.

Under a loose cannon like Trump who operates by what he feels at any particular moment it is horrific.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm not arguing that twitter is correct, because I'm honestly seeking to understand, but that snippet I included is from 50 U.S. Code § 3021 - National Security Council.

That paragraph doesn't say that only those people are allowed to be on the NSC, or that anyone else the President wants to be on the NSC can't be. It's weirdly over-precise in that way, but I think the writers didn't think "Well, what if the President just wants some rando named Steve on the NSC?"
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

That's helpful reading, AdamVasco. It sounds like the Office of Special Plans again.
posted by the Real Dan at 12:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I've been driving most of the day and not able to read comments, but very able to think things through when there wasn't anything I liked on the radio. And I couldn't make it all add up.

When I got home and read the thread, adamvasco's link reaches the same conclusion as I did in my car, though with a slightly different line of reasoning.

If you are at all interested, my thoughts were:

- I strongly believe Trump, Bannon and Flynn are owned by the Russians. Maybe also Kushner, but I can see how the trio would want to keep him (and Ivanka) innocent as a shield. On the other hand, Ivanka holidayed with Putin's girlfriend, so yeah..

- Then why would they ban citizens of countries that are Russian allies (Syria, Iran, maybe Yemen)? That's not hard, they want to limit means of escape for the opposition in those countries.

- Then what about Libya, Iraq, Sudan and Somalia? Together, they add up to the group of countries listed as sponsors of terrorists by the Obama administration, which gives Trump a plausible(-ish) denial.

- But the troops in Iraq? How can a Republican administration put them in danger (Demon LOL)

- OK, so this makes sense, but no sense, everyone is going completely crazy. US governors, mayors, corporations, judges, attorneys are protesting. The UN has condemned the US government, so has Claude Juncker and Angela Merkel. The Danish government has issued a complaint at the US embassy, this has literally never happened before, actually the Danish Foreign Minister just a month ago declared that his job was to do whatever the US government told him to do [true]. (I was listening to the news on the radio). Why would even the very stupid Trump administration do this in the first week, instead of getting there gradually? Yes, it's a grand demonstration for the faithful, but they don't need it this early.

- Also, what's with the NSC? That is a very bold move, specially when even your own party leaders worry you might be a Russian implant.

- Also again, there is something about the optics of the Putin conversation that bothers me. I't normal for the president to have staff present when major calls are made. Nothing to worry about there. But why did the pictures look like a mob lineup, or a coup?

- well, there is one possibility, and that is that this is a test run for something even worse.

And then I arrived home and you guys were all here and thinking along similar lines. Interesting times..
posted by mumimor at 1:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Maybe also Kushner, but I can see how the trio would want to keep him (and Ivanka) innocent as a shield.

i can't think of anything they'd enjoy more than having a high profile jew as their scapegoat
posted by poffin boffin at 1:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

Sharing this one since I thought it was interesting....

From the Facebook page of US/GOP historian, Boston College professor Heather Richardson (public post):

"I don't like to talk about politics on Facebook-- political history is my job, after all, and you are my friends-- but there is an important non-partisan point to make today.

What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is known as a "shock event." Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know how to restore order. When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the partisan lines established by the shock event.

Last night's Executive Order has all the hallmarks of a shock event. It was not reviewed by any governmental agencies or lawyers before it was released, and counterterrorism experts insist they did not ask for it. People charged with enforcing it got no instructions about how to do so. Courts immediately have declared parts of it unconstitutional, but border police in some airports are refusing to stop enforcing it.

Predictably, chaos has followed and tempers are hot.

My point today is this: unless you are the person setting it up, it is in no one's interest to play the shock event game. It is designed explicitly to divide people who might otherwise come together so they cannot stand against something its authors think they won't like. I don't know what Bannon is up to-- although I have some guesses-- but because I know Bannon's ideas well, I am positive that there is not a single person whom I consider a friend on either side of the aisle-- and my friends range pretty widely-- who will benefit from whatever it is. If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been tricked into accepting their real goal.

But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who sparked the event. A successful shock event depends on speed and chaos because it requires knee-jerk reactions so that people divide along established lines. This, for example, is how Confederate leaders railroaded the initial southern states out of the Union. If people realize they are being played, though, they can reach across old lines and reorganize to challenge the leaders who are pulling the strings. This was Lincoln's strategy when he joined together Whigs, Democrats, Free-Soilers, anti-Nebraska voters, and nativists into the new Republican Party to stand against the Slave Power. Five years before, such a coalition would have been unimaginable. Members of those groups agreed on very little other than that they wanted all Americans to have equal economic opportunity. Once they began to work together to promote a fair economic system, though, they found much common ground. They ended up rededicating the nation to a "government of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Confederate leaders and Lincoln both knew about the political potential of a shock event. As we are in the midst of one, it seems worth noting that Lincoln seemed to have the better idea about how to use it."
posted by coust at 1:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]

Maybe also Kushner, but I can see how the trio would want to keep him (and Ivanka) innocent as a shield.

i can't think of anything they'd enjoy more than having a high profile jew as their scapegoat

There's a long history of having a 'Court Jew' to blame. Just found this from way back in the before-times (June last year):

Is Jared Kushner the ‘Court Jew’ of Donald Trump’s Realm?
posted by Buntix at 1:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Prof. Richardson: If the shock event strategy works, though, many of you will blame each other, rather than Bannon, for the fallout. And the country will have been tricked into accepting their real goal.

Damn, where have I heard that tactic before? Hmmm... Ah, right: terrorists, who wish to sow discord and confusion and fear among their enemies!
posted by wenestvedt at 1:30 PM on January 30, 2017

I like how the anti-semite made most of his money off Seinfeld. *sigh*
One of my long-time criticisms of the Seinfeld show was how, if it was your only exposure to "New York Jews", it would be like if Sanford & Son were your only exposure to black small businessmen (except that George and the Costanzas were a lame attempt to disguise some of them as Italian-American).
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

A good response to the "trial balloon for a coup" piece, from a Cornell professor of government:

The swift release of President Trump’s Executive Order on immigration without much advice or feedback from the affected bureaucracies may be evidence that the administration is completely centralizing control within the office of the president. Or it might be because the administration does not understand standard operating procedures in a presidential administration. Or it might be because they worry that they have lost the narrative, need to do something, and a gross Nazi is calling the shots. Again, only the first is a sign of strength. The latter two are signs of weakness. All three of the same observable implications, but have radically different interpretations.

When reading commentary on contemporary U.S. politics, it is best to recognize any attempt to establish a Coherent Theory of the Trump Presidency based on public outputs for the Kremlinology that it is. The hot takes of “I have a theory that makes sense of all of this!” are the qualitative equivalent of curve-fitting. Don’t ignore these hot takes; one of them is probably right, after all. But understand what is missing. From my view, the conclusion to draw from the past ten days is just how little power this president is able to exert over national politics.

posted by AceRock at 2:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]

The thing is, they can be both ignorant and evil.

I don't think these people are capable of even normal chess, let alone 11th dimensional chess. And I do think a lot of the stuff they do is based on ignorant assumptions about government. The thing is that the power of the presidency is such that even their ignorant miscalculations will have an effect because they are backed by the institution of the presidency.

I do think that there is also the Putin factor. While Trump is ignorant, and maybe not well, Putin is neither ignorant nor mentally unstable. Putin probably makes a ton of false assumptions about the US, since he is a child of the Sovjet Union and an alumnus of the KGB, but he is very well versed in disinformation and manipulation, and because the US and Russia have more in common than anyone on any side would like to admit, Putin's strategies work very well in the US. It seems Bannon is a liaison/agent of this influence - maybe he is just a willing fool or a victim of blackmailing. Who knows?

There is no way any official agency or nation or serious newspaper or international NGO will accuse the American President of being a Russian plant without definitive proof. And maybe we will never get that proof. But everything we know indicates this is what is going on. Theories about Bannon are just a sub-plot to that main story.
posted by mumimor at 3:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

U.S. intelligence official says Bannon is "running a cabal" and bypassing the NSC on key decisions
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

The thing is, they can be both ignorant and evil.

Exactly. They're clearly both. See also.

It's a coup. You don't need to be a genius to pull off a coup, you just need to be an evil fuck with a toehold on power.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh great, Bannon must have mentioned "there is no cabal."
posted by rhizome at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

They fired the acting AG because she encouraged her staff to abide by the law? Is there nothing sacred?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

In a coup? No, nothing is sacred.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is there a new politics thread? Somewhere where we are talking about Yates, the DOJ, and how crucial it is for Dems to not confirm Sessions tomorrow?
posted by AceRock at 8:35 PM on January 30, 2017

General thread here.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

From the outside, it's impossible to tell if Trump is staging a coup or totally incompetent.

"Let me explain how observational equivalence works with an example. President Trump may have brought Steve Bannon into the NSC because he is consolidating power and intends to sideline all regular establishment players in the formulation of American foreign policy. Or he might have brought Bannon into the NSC because he is so isolated that he needs someone who he believes he can trust, and everyone in the foreign policy establishment is dragging feet and dissembling. The former is a sign of strength. The latter is a sign of weakness. Both have the same observable implication."
posted by Telf at 5:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]

How does it have to be either/or?

We know he doesn't know what he's doing. That's a given.

We also know he's an authoritarian. That's a given.

So he goes in with the intent of "I'll just do what I want and if anyone gets in my way, they're fired!"

He's by all accounts been breaking rules and norms, if not laws, all his life so why would he expect it to stop now? That would just be how he assumes it works. Nor is he likely to care about the wider implications: he wants his own way, and that's it.

He doesn't need to be intelligent or strong to do any of this.
posted by tel3path at 5:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]

They fired the acting AG because she encouraged her staff to abide by the law? Is there nothing sacred?

I mentioned this in the new general thread, too, former USAG Alberto Gonzales and others in his office resigned over the AG scandal, where they were firing AGs for political reasons. Could this help reinstate her? (Not really holding my breath for any damage to Trump or Bannon.)

One of my long-time criticisms of the Seinfeld show was how, if it was your only exposure to "New York Jews", it would be like if Sanford & Son were your only exposure to black small businessmen (except that George and the Costanzas were a lame attempt to disguise some of them as Italian-American).

This bothered me last night and after sleeping on it, it still bothers me. Unlike Sandford & Son, which was based on the British TV show, Steptoe and Son, Seinfeld is based on Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David (George is Larry's alter-ego.) To say it's too "New York Jew-y" is the exact criticism the show used to make the Costanzas Italians. It's telling Jerry Seinfeld to make a TV show based on his life, but to tone down the Jewish stuff. Which, by the way, the show never really talks about -- certainly not as much as the show Friends did -- so that entire line of criticism is specious. I mean, the implication here is that Jerry being Jerry enforces negative stereotypes, but that only works if you think being a New York Jew (or too much of a New York Jew) is negative. (Also, Elaine isn't even Jewish.)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

(Also, Elaine isn't even Jewish.)

Yeah, but she's got shiksappeal.
posted by rhizome at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump firing Sally Yates isn’t the big story. How he did it is.
posted by farlukar at 8:58 AM on January 31, 2017

In our 2018 season, we will debuting our Post-Apocalyptic Preppers with lifehacks of the four horsemen.
posted by y2karl at 9:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

That Betsy DeVos is Erik Prince's sister is just... just... someone help me here.
posted by sutureselves at 10:08 AM on January 31, 2017

[cross-posted in the general thread] I just left voicemail at ABC about the NSC shakeup. Coverage of it was on This Week (you'll need this info to press buttons to get to their voicemail). Here's my script. They give you 30 seconds. (ALL CAPS are to remind me to emphasize important words.)

"Martha Raddatz's coverage FAILS to mention that the NSC is responsible for deciding who's on Kill Lists. Kill Lists label people as "SUSPECTED" terrorists and our government orders our military to kill them. The people killed include American citizens. NOW, the NSC makes these decisions with NO mandated input WHATSOEVER from Intel, or the Joint Chiefs. There is NO PUBLIC RECORD of the decision making or the executions. Does this make you proud to be American?"

Suggestions for improvement welcome. Media people, is it important to leave my name and phone number? I didn't, because I didn't want to cut it down further.

I'm focusing on this because it looks to me like Bannon's shortcut to trigger riots, martial law, etc.

Copying & pasting the following from the brilliant user who put this in the previous general thread:

This is how we oppose Bannon. We apply our pressure to changing the narrative:
CBS customer service: (212) 975-3247
ABC customer service: (818) 460-7477
CNN Customer service: (404) 827-1500
Fox News customer service: (888) 369-4762
NBC and MSNBC: (212) 664-4444
CNBC: (201) 585-2622
Associated Press: (212) 621-1500

Tell them it's insane to dismiss lifelong intelligence and military personnel in favor of political operatives on our National Security Council. Why aren't they speaking out against this more? Why aren't they talking about how unprecedented and dangerous this is?
Best of all: unlike politicians, you can call them on the weekends.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]

> cross-posted in the general thread

Please don't -- it's hard enough keeping up as is.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]

Bannon is an radical ideologue

Bannon is a racist piece of shit. Let's call a spade a spade.
posted by prepmonkey at 1:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]

Sorry, corpse. Wasn't thinking.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 3:20 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]

eponysomethingorother
posted by y2karl at 12:17 AM on February 4, 2017

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