The Philosemitic / Antisemitic Tchotchke Market
April 25, 2017 9:54 AM Subscribe
Prior to WWII, there were over 3 million Jews in Poland. Today, estimates of the number of Jews living there range from 7,000 to 200,000. Many Poles have never met a Jewish person. But "lucky Jew" (Żyd na szczęście) figurines and oil paintings depicting stereotypical Jews (often wearing black hats, holding money and sporting long noses and sideburns) are becoming popular.
Background
The figures are thought to be talismans, bringing good fortune and wealth to their owners. They may be placed near a business's cash registers or at the doorway of one's home. This is a form of economic antisemitism (although defenders might say philosemitism,) similar to that reported about China (and covered on Mefi) a few years back.
Additional Reading and Pictures
* Pangyrus: Lucky Jews. This article is by Erica Lehrer, American socio-cultural anthropologist and curator of the 'Centre for Ethnographic Research & Exhibition in the aftermath of Violence' (CEREV) in Montreal.
- Dr. Lehrer also created an exhibition "Souvenir, Talisman, Toy: Jews for hearth and home" that took place in 2013 in Krakow's Seweryn Udziela Ethnographic Museum. In addition to the official site, Lehrer launched LuckyJews.com but the site is not rendering well. There are some frame issues and some html is visible. Included here for its excellent images.
* Tablet: Popular Images of Jews in Krakow: Folk Art or Stereotypical Caricatures?
* Vice: Hey Poland, What's Up with Those Lucky Jew Statues?
* International Business Times: 'Lucky Jew' Statues: Are Polish Figurines A Symptom Of Anti-Semitism Or Just In Bad Taste?
* The Conversation: Racist kitsch begs a deeper question – can Jews really be part of Poland?
* Times of Israel: Real Jews are scarce in Warsaw, but ‘lucky Jew’ figurines are everywhere
* Haaretz: Why are the Poles amassing Jewish figurines? (This article may be paywalled.)
* Blog: From Auschwitz to Skokie: Jew Figurines: A Complicated Aspect of Modern Polish Culture
* Related: Tablet Magazine: Journey to a Land Where Jews Are Wax and Anti-Semitism Is Kitsch
Background
The figures are thought to be talismans, bringing good fortune and wealth to their owners. They may be placed near a business's cash registers or at the doorway of one's home. This is a form of economic antisemitism (although defenders might say philosemitism,) similar to that reported about China (and covered on Mefi) a few years back.
The “Jew with the gold coin” comes with a manual. In order to be effective, it must be hung to the left of one’s front door—a likely mockery of the Jewish mezuzah. Preferably, the Jew should be wearing a skullcap, be very old and bearded, as if he had come from the depths of time. And he must imperatively be holding a gold coin, or, better yet, he must be counting coins or squeezing a well-filled purse against his body. An important detail: the picture must be equipped with two hooks. Indeed, one must be able to hang it both ways. Once these conditions are met, all there is left to do is slip a coin of one grosz behind the frame and turn the Jew upside down every Saturday. Money and fortune will follow.
The “Jew with the gold coin” is one in a long series of collective representations that associate Jews with money and whose origins go back to ancient times. Judas, Shylock, Gobseck, and other such figures populate Western culture. But there is something new about the “Jew with the gold coin”: it is massively present in contemporary commercial sites where it is sold or hung on walls as a good luck charm, including in the shops of the former Jewish quarter.
Additional Reading and Pictures
* Pangyrus: Lucky Jews. This article is by Erica Lehrer, American socio-cultural anthropologist and curator of the 'Centre for Ethnographic Research & Exhibition in the aftermath of Violence' (CEREV) in Montreal.
- Dr. Lehrer also created an exhibition "Souvenir, Talisman, Toy: Jews for hearth and home" that took place in 2013 in Krakow's Seweryn Udziela Ethnographic Museum. In addition to the official site, Lehrer launched LuckyJews.com but the site is not rendering well. There are some frame issues and some html is visible. Included here for its excellent images.
* Tablet: Popular Images of Jews in Krakow: Folk Art or Stereotypical Caricatures?
* Vice: Hey Poland, What's Up with Those Lucky Jew Statues?
* International Business Times: 'Lucky Jew' Statues: Are Polish Figurines A Symptom Of Anti-Semitism Or Just In Bad Taste?
* The Conversation: Racist kitsch begs a deeper question – can Jews really be part of Poland?
* Times of Israel: Real Jews are scarce in Warsaw, but ‘lucky Jew’ figurines are everywhere
* Haaretz: Why are the Poles amassing Jewish figurines? (This article may be paywalled.)
* Blog: From Auschwitz to Skokie: Jew Figurines: A Complicated Aspect of Modern Polish Culture
* Related: Tablet Magazine: Journey to a Land Where Jews Are Wax and Anti-Semitism Is Kitsch
For some reason the relationship of a lucky rabbit's foot to the original rabbit comes to mind.
posted by King Sky Prawn at 9:58 AM on April 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by King Sky Prawn at 9:58 AM on April 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
This strikes me as very much analogous to the common motif of Native Americans in American kitsch art.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:04 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
"This meaning is now reversed: the picture of a Jew in the entrance hall inverts cash flows and their capture. Money then falls from the Jew’s pocket into that of the picture’s lucky owner. "
Gross.
An excellent post, zarq.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 10:09 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gross.
An excellent post, zarq.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 10:09 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is all new to me, thanks for the thoroughgoing post. A lot to dig into, here.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:21 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:21 AM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
For those wanting to read more, Dr. Lehrer's book is fascinating, and explores the whole topic of anti-Semitism, philosemitism, and perceptions thereof by Jewish tourists to, and those in the tourist business in, Poland, including some discussion of the figurines.
posted by damayanti at 10:26 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by damayanti at 10:26 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
They were selling these at the Emaus market in Krakow ages ago and I wondered what they were! I thought they were Hasidic bobbleheads.
posted by orrnyereg at 10:52 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 10:52 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have a hard time finding any reasonable argument that this is "philosemitism." Associating images of Jews - poor Jews at that - with wealth and good fortune just reinforces the idea that all Jews are rich, and that some just hide it well. Which - history has shown - often leads to violence against individuals and communities. It's especially discomfiting in light of how many Jews are impoverished worldwide.
The comparison to Native American imagery here (I'm looking at you, Redskins logo) seems really apt.
posted by Mchelly at 10:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
The comparison to Native American imagery here (I'm looking at you, Redskins logo) seems really apt.
posted by Mchelly at 10:57 AM on April 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
This strikes me as very much analogous to the common motif of Native Americans in American kitsch art.
Right down to the guy making them (from the Vice article) saying “I make these wood carvings in honor of their memory . . . It is my aim not to let the traces of this ancient culture sink into oblivion.” Nothing says Honoring Ancient Culture like a hook-nosed rabbi clutching a bagful of gold.
And Jewish historical sites I've seen in central/eastern Europe have a similar vibe to US museums' treatment of Native Americans: lots of "here is a random selection of the interesting implements once used in their rituals" and so on.
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on April 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
Right down to the guy making them (from the Vice article) saying “I make these wood carvings in honor of their memory . . . It is my aim not to let the traces of this ancient culture sink into oblivion.” Nothing says Honoring Ancient Culture like a hook-nosed rabbi clutching a bagful of gold.
And Jewish historical sites I've seen in central/eastern Europe have a similar vibe to US museums' treatment of Native Americans: lots of "here is a random selection of the interesting implements once used in their rituals" and so on.
posted by theodolite at 10:59 AM on April 25, 2017 [17 favorites]
I have a better idea: how about everyone in Poland hangs a portrait of a local Jewish family in their front-hall, with notes on where they lived, how they died, etc, so that they can pass it everyday and reflect. Maybe this would be a good luck charm against being complicit in genocide.
/sarcasm off - man, this is so gross. There's no kitsch, no excuse. Maybe if the image was good luck in studying - picturing a rabbi would be excellent for that. But for money? yuck.
posted by jb at 11:01 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
/sarcasm off - man, this is so gross. There's no kitsch, no excuse. Maybe if the image was good luck in studying - picturing a rabbi would be excellent for that. But for money? yuck.
posted by jb at 11:01 AM on April 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
My family is primarily of Polish descent on my mother's side, and Mom's occasional interactions with the Polish government in re: genealogical data have been pretty terrible (in fact, she finally got a non-Jewish friend to handle all queries for her, which "mysteriously" solved the problem). That's aside from the promise she had to make that she would do no research leading to claims on property stolen during the Holocaust era--which, given the subject of this article, is, shall we say, somewhat ironic. Meanwhile, one set of cousins went to Poland directly to check some records, and were immediately thrown out the moment the archivist realized that they were Jews.
Woodcarver Adam Zegadlo is quoted as saying, “I make these wood carvings in honor of their memory . . . It is my aim not to let the traces of this ancient culture sink into oblivion.” Although, it’s not clear where he stands on turning his carvings upside down so all the imaginary money falls out.
Oh. Oh, dear.
posted by thomas j wise at 11:06 AM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Woodcarver Adam Zegadlo is quoted as saying, “I make these wood carvings in honor of their memory . . . It is my aim not to let the traces of this ancient culture sink into oblivion.” Although, it’s not clear where he stands on turning his carvings upside down so all the imaginary money falls out.
Oh. Oh, dear.
posted by thomas j wise at 11:06 AM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I have a hard time finding any reasonable argument that this is "philosemitism."
I don't think one exists. As far as I'm concerned this is antisemitism.
As in the Chinese example, there's a lot here to unpack. These are also people who have never met Jews before. They were raised in a culture that is steeped in antisemitic tropes and imagery. They don't think of themselves as Jew-haters. The Times of Israel article gives us arguments presented by defenders of the practice, as well as the negative feelings many Jews have about it. Dr. Lehrer is apparently convinced it's not antisemitic, but her points don't resonate with me. Ignorance is not an excuse, but if someone becomes educated on why something is offensive but does nothing, then ignorance can't be offered even as a possible excuse.
posted by zarq at 11:17 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
I don't think one exists. As far as I'm concerned this is antisemitism.
As in the Chinese example, there's a lot here to unpack. These are also people who have never met Jews before. They were raised in a culture that is steeped in antisemitic tropes and imagery. They don't think of themselves as Jew-haters. The Times of Israel article gives us arguments presented by defenders of the practice, as well as the negative feelings many Jews have about it. Dr. Lehrer is apparently convinced it's not antisemitic, but her points don't resonate with me. Ignorance is not an excuse, but if someone becomes educated on why something is offensive but does nothing, then ignorance can't be offered even as a possible excuse.
posted by zarq at 11:17 AM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not so far away, in Lviv, Ukraine, you can go to a "Jewish-themed restaurant" where you have to haggle over prices with the waiter, who wears a hat with fake payos.
Per Wikipedia, before the Shoah, Lviv was 1/3 Jewish, with a Jewish population of 140,000. Now there's 1,100.
posted by Theiform at 11:26 AM on April 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
Per Wikipedia, before the Shoah, Lviv was 1/3 Jewish, with a Jewish population of 140,000. Now there's 1,100.
posted by Theiform at 11:26 AM on April 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
In China it would be offputting but in Poland it's pretty gross given the reason 90 percent of Poles can say they don't know any Jews.
posted by atoxyl at 11:28 AM on April 25, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 11:28 AM on April 25, 2017 [33 favorites]
From the article: It should be emphasized that in the semantic domain, the term “Jew” (Żyd) is sometimes accompanied by its variant “Żydek,” a pejorative diminutive that can be translated in English as “Yid.”
So here's a fun fact: Zyd/Zhid was the general term for "Jew" in Slavic languages, but it was never really neutral in the sense of other demonyms because the relationship of whichever nation we're talking about to the Jews in that nation was never neutral. In certain Slavic languages -- Russian for instance -- it's been mostly relegated to a slur on par with "kike" and the neutral word for Jew is "Hebrew."
This, obviously, isn't any kind of evidence that Poland is more anti-Semitic than any other Slavic country but I think the Native American comparison is apt in the sense that there was never a neutral relationship there, but an extremely complex one that was simultaneously oppressive, dependent and resentful. Take the actual human beings out of the equation and you're left with what is essentially fetishism.
posted by griphus at 11:30 AM on April 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
So here's a fun fact: Zyd/Zhid was the general term for "Jew" in Slavic languages, but it was never really neutral in the sense of other demonyms because the relationship of whichever nation we're talking about to the Jews in that nation was never neutral. In certain Slavic languages -- Russian for instance -- it's been mostly relegated to a slur on par with "kike" and the neutral word for Jew is "Hebrew."
This, obviously, isn't any kind of evidence that Poland is more anti-Semitic than any other Slavic country but I think the Native American comparison is apt in the sense that there was never a neutral relationship there, but an extremely complex one that was simultaneously oppressive, dependent and resentful. Take the actual human beings out of the equation and you're left with what is essentially fetishism.
posted by griphus at 11:30 AM on April 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
So here's a fun fact: Zyd/Zhid was the general term for "Jew" in Slavic languages, but it was never really neutral in the sense of other demonyms because the relationship of whichever nation we're talking about to the Jews in that nation was never neutral. In certain Slavic languages -- Russian for instance -- it's been mostly relegated to a slur on par with "kike" and the neutral word for Jew is "Hebrew."
Yeah, neither is "Yid", regardless of what the Tottenham Hotspur fans will tell you.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:49 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, neither is "Yid", regardless of what the Tottenham Hotspur fans will tell you.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:49 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not so far away, in Lviv, Ukraine, you can go to a "Jewish-themed restaurant" where you have to haggle over prices with the waiter, who wears a hat with fake payos.
Ugh.
The last link in this post is an American family's visit to Anatewka, a Jewish-themed restaurant in Lodz, where they give customers "lucky Jew" figurines with the check.
posted by zarq at 11:56 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ugh.
The last link in this post is an American family's visit to Anatewka, a Jewish-themed restaurant in Lodz, where they give customers "lucky Jew" figurines with the check.
posted by zarq at 11:56 AM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not so far away, in Lviv, Ukraine, you can go to a "Jewish-themed restaurant" where you have to haggle over prices with the waiter, who wears a hat with fake payos.
I'm OK with this, so long as at the end of the meal the restaurant's patrons are kidnapped by the Mossad and taken to Israel to be tried for war crimes.
...you know, for authenticity's sake.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:12 PM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm OK with this, so long as at the end of the meal the restaurant's patrons are kidnapped by the Mossad and taken to Israel to be tried for war crimes.
...you know, for authenticity's sake.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:12 PM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, it's gross, and for all the protestations, antisemitic, as racism does not have to be intentional or conscious to be real. Although the popularity of such figurines and portraits might be recent, the phenomenon itself isn't - I saw a rocking figure of a "praying Jew" made of painted of sheet metal which was made well before the war and Holocaust.
I have a better idea: how about everyone in Poland hangs a portrait of a local Jewish family in their front-hall, with notes on where they lived, how they died, etc, so that they can pass it everyday and reflect. Maybe this would be a good luck charm against being complicit in genocide.
I believe it has been written in haste and righteous anger. There have been not many days in my life since I learned some history when I didn't reflect on the enormity of our loss and the injustice of the treatment the Holocaust victims and survivors received from the postwar Polish authorities until the end of communist rule. It's hard not to do it, the traces of our Jewish history and its tragic end are everywhere if one doesn't actively cultivate one's ignorance. I know many others who think like me. Yes, unfortunately, the majority still would be content to forget everything but the comforting stories, but accusing "everyone in Poland" of using lucky charms against "being complicit in genocide", as the quoted comment can be interpreted without much effort, is going too far.
posted by hat_eater at 12:15 PM on April 25, 2017
I have a better idea: how about everyone in Poland hangs a portrait of a local Jewish family in their front-hall, with notes on where they lived, how they died, etc, so that they can pass it everyday and reflect. Maybe this would be a good luck charm against being complicit in genocide.
I believe it has been written in haste and righteous anger. There have been not many days in my life since I learned some history when I didn't reflect on the enormity of our loss and the injustice of the treatment the Holocaust victims and survivors received from the postwar Polish authorities until the end of communist rule. It's hard not to do it, the traces of our Jewish history and its tragic end are everywhere if one doesn't actively cultivate one's ignorance. I know many others who think like me. Yes, unfortunately, the majority still would be content to forget everything but the comforting stories, but accusing "everyone in Poland" of using lucky charms against "being complicit in genocide", as the quoted comment can be interpreted without much effort, is going too far.
posted by hat_eater at 12:15 PM on April 25, 2017
I have a hard time finding any reasonable argument that this is "philosemitism."
I do think it's philosemitic in a way, but that doesn't excuse it. I doubt people who display "lucky jews" do so with hate in their hearts, but they are nonetheless objectifying Jews, and they are being highly cavalier with the implications.
It reminds me of how caricatured Native American imagery is used in the US to connote connection with nature, or reverence for an edenic past. In both cases, there is an element of genocidal triumph. Having killed off a group of people, the dominant culture starts viewing them as talismanic objects, sanctified by past violence for which it will not take full responsibility.
As someone with relatives who survived Nazi camps in Poland, I feel pretty queazy about effigies of "my people" hanging up there as money-charms. But I am also aware that this "lucky jew" phenomenon casts Jewish people as having worthy, desirable attributes. As obviously perverse as it is, as uncomfortable as it makes me, I also think that this represents an emergent sense of Jews being interesting, even worthy of emulation. And compared to how Jews have been seen in Poland for most of history, including shockingly recently, it does represent a sort of progress.
This is NOT an attempt to excuse the behavior. If anyone I knew had a "lucky jew", I would be unhappy about it, and I'd let them know. But I think there is more to be said about this than "look at those awful anti-semitic Polish people, how dare they."
posted by andrewpcone at 12:16 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I do think it's philosemitic in a way, but that doesn't excuse it. I doubt people who display "lucky jews" do so with hate in their hearts, but they are nonetheless objectifying Jews, and they are being highly cavalier with the implications.
It reminds me of how caricatured Native American imagery is used in the US to connote connection with nature, or reverence for an edenic past. In both cases, there is an element of genocidal triumph. Having killed off a group of people, the dominant culture starts viewing them as talismanic objects, sanctified by past violence for which it will not take full responsibility.
As someone with relatives who survived Nazi camps in Poland, I feel pretty queazy about effigies of "my people" hanging up there as money-charms. But I am also aware that this "lucky jew" phenomenon casts Jewish people as having worthy, desirable attributes. As obviously perverse as it is, as uncomfortable as it makes me, I also think that this represents an emergent sense of Jews being interesting, even worthy of emulation. And compared to how Jews have been seen in Poland for most of history, including shockingly recently, it does represent a sort of progress.
This is NOT an attempt to excuse the behavior. If anyone I knew had a "lucky jew", I would be unhappy about it, and I'd let them know. But I think there is more to be said about this than "look at those awful anti-semitic Polish people, how dare they."
posted by andrewpcone at 12:16 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I have a better idea: how about everyone in Poland hangs a portrait of a local Jewish family in their front-hall, with notes on where they lived, how they died, etc, so that they can pass it everyday and reflect. Maybe this would be a good luck charm against being complicit in genocide.
I want to do this myself :'-(
And I already have a better image, and more magical, than the practices this post reveals. On my phone, on this website, everyday, I can see great hearts, fierce minds and witty tongues: here are people I utterly admire, and love, though some I've never met, some I've only shared a drink with once. And everything I've learned (not much) of Jewish experiences, of cultures, of concerns ... I feel that's greatly due to their posts, their comments, their tweets. This is an admission of my great ignorance, but also of my joy - but also of the troubles that they know, that I only know because they tell me. So I beg them: don't stop, great hearts. You are great. And how rich am I to know you on MetaFilter? I am far richer than any idiot superstition. I have here a chance to know a little of human magic: you.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:18 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I want to do this myself :'-(
And I already have a better image, and more magical, than the practices this post reveals. On my phone, on this website, everyday, I can see great hearts, fierce minds and witty tongues: here are people I utterly admire, and love, though some I've never met, some I've only shared a drink with once. And everything I've learned (not much) of Jewish experiences, of cultures, of concerns ... I feel that's greatly due to their posts, their comments, their tweets. This is an admission of my great ignorance, but also of my joy - but also of the troubles that they know, that I only know because they tell me. So I beg them: don't stop, great hearts. You are great. And how rich am I to know you on MetaFilter? I am far richer than any idiot superstition. I have here a chance to know a little of human magic: you.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:18 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I have here a chance to know a little of human magic: you.
I appreciate that you meant this in kindness, but we are not human magic. We are humans, like other humans.
I worry that the idea that we are "human magic" is exactly the sort of thinking that makes people want to hang effigies of money-grabbing Jews on their walls. You know, to get in on the magic.
Again, I'm not trying to bite your head off, because I know you meant well. Other Jews may disagree with me here, but I don't like being seen as particularly exceptional, witty, or magical on account of my Jewishness. The best long-term hedge against anti-semitism, I feel, is that we are as uninteresting as any other group.
posted by andrewpcone at 12:24 PM on April 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I appreciate that you meant this in kindness, but we are not human magic. We are humans, like other humans.
I worry that the idea that we are "human magic" is exactly the sort of thinking that makes people want to hang effigies of money-grabbing Jews on their walls. You know, to get in on the magic.
Again, I'm not trying to bite your head off, because I know you meant well. Other Jews may disagree with me here, but I don't like being seen as particularly exceptional, witty, or magical on account of my Jewishness. The best long-term hedge against anti-semitism, I feel, is that we are as uninteresting as any other group.
posted by andrewpcone at 12:24 PM on April 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have a hard time finding any reasonable argument that this is "philosemitism."
Yeah, this is (literal) fetishisation. The phenomena of "lawn jockeys" and "dime store Indians" in the US is definitely a useful parallel.
The people who use these things have no interest in Jews as people, they just want to use stereotyped signifiers of their ethnic identity as props. That it's done in a "playful" manner makes it no less dehumanising.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:27 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, this is (literal) fetishisation. The phenomena of "lawn jockeys" and "dime store Indians" in the US is definitely a useful parallel.
The people who use these things have no interest in Jews as people, they just want to use stereotyped signifiers of their ethnic identity as props. That it's done in a "playful" manner makes it no less dehumanising.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:27 PM on April 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I didn't mean you, andrew! That was directed to certain people I know, have met, or otherwise interact with on the internet, and who I like as human beings, and who have taught me plenty (without realising). One is the Poster. You, I don't know, and am not fetishising. You may be a great person, but I don't know ya.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:29 PM on April 25, 2017
posted by the quidnunc kid at 12:29 PM on April 25, 2017
complicit in genocide
Just to be clear, combining this with the "everyone in Poland" mention you made at the start of your post, are you accusing the Polish people of generally being abetters in the Holocaust? Because while it generally sucked to be a Jew in Poland (or any Slavic country, IIRC), that's one hell of a charge, and I want to be sure I'm following you here.
posted by Palindromedary at 12:48 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Just to be clear, combining this with the "everyone in Poland" mention you made at the start of your post, are you accusing the Polish people of generally being abetters in the Holocaust? Because while it generally sucked to be a Jew in Poland (or any Slavic country, IIRC), that's one hell of a charge, and I want to be sure I'm following you here.
posted by Palindromedary at 12:48 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Anatewka: the name of the village where the Jews of Fiddler on the Roof lived and were forced to leave.
posted by brujita at 1:03 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by brujita at 1:03 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Those images are awful, nightmare stuff. This makes me ashamed of the Polish part of my heritage. Also helps me understand why my Jewish father-in-law, raised in Poland, could never bring himself to meet me.
posted by mermayd at 1:25 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mermayd at 1:25 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just to be clear, combining this with the "everyone in Poland" mention you made at the start of your post, are you accusing the Polish people of generally being abetters in the Holocaust? Because while it generally sucked to be a Jew in Poland (or any Slavic country, IIRC), that's one hell of a charge, and I want to be sure I'm following you here.
This is kind of established historical fact, unless I am misunderstanding the comment.
posted by leesh at 1:34 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is kind of established historical fact, unless I am misunderstanding the comment.
posted by leesh at 1:34 PM on April 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
We should acknowledge what actually happened.
The established historical facts are that some Polish people actively and passively abetted the Nazis. Smaller numbers of Poles tried to save Jews. So, it would be inaccurate to accuse the entire country of being complicit. That wikipedia page offers extensive context. It also notes that occupied Poland was the only country where the Germans issued a death decree against both anyone who helped the Jews and their family members. The Germans killed tens of thousands of non-Jewish Poles because of it.
There were Polish collaborators and blackmailers. There were also thousands of Poles who quite literally risked everything to shelter us. And there are more people (over 6000) from Poland than any other country who have been recognized by the Yad Vashem as "Righteous Among the Nations" -- non-Jews who protected us during the Holocaust. It's impossible to know how many Jews were saved because their neighbors sheltered them from atrocity.
We can condemn those who deserve it. We can recognize heroes. Those two acts aren't mutually exclusive.
posted by zarq at 1:46 PM on April 25, 2017 [31 favorites]
The established historical facts are that some Polish people actively and passively abetted the Nazis. Smaller numbers of Poles tried to save Jews. So, it would be inaccurate to accuse the entire country of being complicit. That wikipedia page offers extensive context. It also notes that occupied Poland was the only country where the Germans issued a death decree against both anyone who helped the Jews and their family members. The Germans killed tens of thousands of non-Jewish Poles because of it.
There were Polish collaborators and blackmailers. There were also thousands of Poles who quite literally risked everything to shelter us. And there are more people (over 6000) from Poland than any other country who have been recognized by the Yad Vashem as "Righteous Among the Nations" -- non-Jews who protected us during the Holocaust. It's impossible to know how many Jews were saved because their neighbors sheltered them from atrocity.
We can condemn those who deserve it. We can recognize heroes. Those two acts aren't mutually exclusive.
posted by zarq at 1:46 PM on April 25, 2017 [31 favorites]
I think it's pretty obvious that there's a huge gap between "actively collaborating as a government / nation with the Nazis to deliberately implement the Final Solution" (Ustaše, 1944+ Arrow Cross), and the basic unorganized and long-standing general horribleness that was relations between Jews and Poles at that time. That there were opportunistic pogroms and collaborators can't be denied (not to mention postwar predatory occupation of former Jewish holdings, which is another story), but there were Poles (and Ukrainians, and other Slavic individuals) who risked (and gave) their lives to aid Jews as well, and if someone is going to focus on one set, imply it's the totality, and ignore the other, I'd have to ask what the agenda is here.
We can condemn those who deserve it. We can recognize heroes. Those two acts aren't mutually exclusive.
Well said.
posted by Palindromedary at 1:48 PM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
We can condemn those who deserve it. We can recognize heroes. Those two acts aren't mutually exclusive.
Well said.
posted by Palindromedary at 1:48 PM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
"This meaning is now reversed: the picture of a Jew in the entrance hall inverts cash flows and their capture. Money then falls from the Jew’s pocket into that of the picture’s lucky owner."
What, usurping the land and property they owned before being sent off to the death camps wasn't good enough?
posted by radicalawyer at 2:22 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
What, usurping the land and property they owned before being sent off to the death camps wasn't good enough?
posted by radicalawyer at 2:22 PM on April 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
I believe it has been written in haste and righteous anger
It was written in haste and anger - but it was not claiming that every Pole was complicit - any more than every Brit, every Canadian, every American, every Australian, etc, was complicit in genocide, as all of our countries refused refugees. We are all somewhat complicit as communities, though not as individuals.
But that's not what I meant by my original comment. I meant that genocide awareness - and awareness of the corrosive nature of stereotyping and othering human beings - itself might be protective against becoming complicit in genocide in the future. I'm sorry that was not clear.
I do believe that people who promote stereotyping/othering of ethnic groups are complicit in systemic discrimination, up to and including genocide. So if there are new pogroms in Poland, anyone promoting this "lucky Jew" imagery may be complicit. Similarly in my Canada, I hold people like Kelly Leitch responsible for promoting Islamaphobia - which has already claimed lives here.
posted by jb at 3:13 PM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
It was written in haste and anger - but it was not claiming that every Pole was complicit - any more than every Brit, every Canadian, every American, every Australian, etc, was complicit in genocide, as all of our countries refused refugees. We are all somewhat complicit as communities, though not as individuals.
But that's not what I meant by my original comment. I meant that genocide awareness - and awareness of the corrosive nature of stereotyping and othering human beings - itself might be protective against becoming complicit in genocide in the future. I'm sorry that was not clear.
I do believe that people who promote stereotyping/othering of ethnic groups are complicit in systemic discrimination, up to and including genocide. So if there are new pogroms in Poland, anyone promoting this "lucky Jew" imagery may be complicit. Similarly in my Canada, I hold people like Kelly Leitch responsible for promoting Islamaphobia - which has already claimed lives here.
posted by jb at 3:13 PM on April 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also, I read quidnunc kid's comment as saying that the magic is inherent not in Jews, but in the ability of all people to talk to each other and learn from each other's experiences. I've learned much from people of all sorts on metafilter; my life is richer for it.
posted by jb at 3:19 PM on April 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jb at 3:19 PM on April 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yup but if I made anyone think that I think all Jews are magic pixies (or whatevs) - and I guess I did give that impression to at least one person: I'm very sorry, I'll try not to be so dense in the future. Point fully taken; my bad, my dumb. :-(
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:50 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:50 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do believe that people who promote stereotyping/othering of ethnic groups are complicit in systemic discrimination, up to and including genocide. So if there are new pogroms in Poland, anyone promoting this "lucky Jew" imagery may be complicit.
Thank you. And I agree.
posted by hat_eater at 3:58 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thank you. And I agree.
posted by hat_eater at 3:58 PM on April 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was in Lviv, Warsaw, and Krakow last summer, and while I can second most of what people saw, I can only think of two things that are unsaid:
1) the Communist governments (in this case, of Poland and the Ukraine SSR) went to great lengths to tamp down memories of the holocaust, for all kinds of reasons (I don't have time to find sources on this so I'm happy to be contradicted). It's probably important to remember that the history of Poland didn't stop after this event, and that in the intervening sixty years a lot went down to create a fairly complicated mixture of forgetting and remembering.
2) This in turn leads to the point that all of what you see in Poland today is taking place in the context of post-Communist Poland, which has a lot of contingent factors.
3) If you do go to Krakow, you should absolutely visit The Galicia Jewish Museum. Right now it is basically a photo gallery, although I think they have plans to do more. It was a sombre, careful look at Jewish life in Galicia and the holocaust. For me it was a great anecdote to the nightmare that was the Oscar Schindler Factory (which I would avoid unless you like an intense version of what's being described here), and did more than anything I saw there to create a real sense of what happened and how people felt about it over time.
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 1:01 AM on April 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
1) the Communist governments (in this case, of Poland and the Ukraine SSR) went to great lengths to tamp down memories of the holocaust, for all kinds of reasons (I don't have time to find sources on this so I'm happy to be contradicted). It's probably important to remember that the history of Poland didn't stop after this event, and that in the intervening sixty years a lot went down to create a fairly complicated mixture of forgetting and remembering.
2) This in turn leads to the point that all of what you see in Poland today is taking place in the context of post-Communist Poland, which has a lot of contingent factors.
3) If you do go to Krakow, you should absolutely visit The Galicia Jewish Museum. Right now it is basically a photo gallery, although I think they have plans to do more. It was a sombre, careful look at Jewish life in Galicia and the holocaust. For me it was a great anecdote to the nightmare that was the Oscar Schindler Factory (which I would avoid unless you like an intense version of what's being described here), and did more than anything I saw there to create a real sense of what happened and how people felt about it over time.
posted by Stilling Still Dreaming at 1:01 AM on April 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I should add that I can easily see why Poles would be drawn to the stereotype of the Jew as someone who can make do with what's in his head and what's in his pocket, which to me seems to be what these figurines represent.
Living under communism makes it necessary to be that kind of person.
posted by ocschwar at 12:43 PM on April 26, 2017
Living under communism makes it necessary to be that kind of person.
posted by ocschwar at 12:43 PM on April 26, 2017
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posted by zarq at 9:55 AM on April 25, 2017 [2 favorites]