Do you want to receive notifications?

October 26, 2018 7:51 AM

Websites in 2018.
posted by Wordshore (126 comments total)

TBQH I closed the tab right away.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:57 AM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

The thing I really want to know from people working in UX and front-end work is, has anyone ever actually fucking subscribed to a newsletter? How did this become a thing every site thinks people want?
posted by tocts at 7:58 AM on October 26, 2018 [91 favorites]

This doesn't get to peak irritation, which is where you get to see the page for a full five seconds, start reading, and THEN the "PLEASE FILL IN OUR CUSTOMER SATISFACTION SURVEY" or whatever stupid nonsense appears.
posted by stillnocturnal at 7:59 AM on October 26, 2018 [96 favorites]

I think I need to go view the site on my phone to appreciate the full horror.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 8:01 AM on October 26, 2018 [7 favorites]

My favorite are third-party video ads that keep shifting the text I'm desperately trying to read around during their minute+ load time. Mmmm....love it....
posted by nosila at 8:03 AM on October 26, 2018 [59 favorites]

Oh, and it needs more ads for random Chinese clothing sites.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 8:05 AM on October 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

Missing GDPR compliance popup, as well
posted by Berreggnog at 8:07 AM on October 26, 2018 [41 favorites]

The article also should have either/or:

- Clickbait image links to other articles in the middle of the text you're trying to read

- The same rotating set of ONE SIMPLE TRICK or AND THEN THIS HAPPENED clickbait image links at the bottom all vaguely about a famous person's looks or dark secret or some other bullshit. 1 in 5 should include a photo of lotus pods or other common trypophobia triggers.
posted by tocts at 8:09 AM on October 26, 2018 [21 favorites]

And a Cookie Policy banner if you're in Europe.

And a sensitive ad banner that expands a video with sound as soon as your mouse hovers over it for a split second.

The thing I really want to know from people working in UX and front-end work is, has anyone ever actually fucking subscribed to a newsletter? How did this become a thing every site thinks people want?

Ohhh you think WE prioritise the backlog? I'm actually kind of flattered you think we hold this kind of decision making power.
posted by like_neon at 8:11 AM on October 26, 2018 [33 favorites]

As a developer, I hate this stuff as much as anyone else, and I've never once recommended any of it.

That said, it's worth considering where this stuff comes from:

• Do you want to receive notifications? Yeah, this is just garbage purveyed by spreadsheet-dicked* middle managers who want the site to be "sticky". Fail
• Cookie notification bar: The lawyers are behind this one. Unfortunately, with things like GDPR and CCPA, they're probably right. Pass
• Are you 18 or more years old? I mean, if a site is asking this, it's probably for legal reasons, and therefore defensible. Pass
• Subscribe to Our Newsletter: For every lonely shut-in who subcribes to your shitty newsletter, you're just annoying 99,999 other people. Fail
• Please Disable Your Adblock / Donate: As terrible as the digital ad industry is, commercial sites overwhelmingly rely on ad revenue to make their business models viable. It's not, say, The Atlantic's fault that the ad industry sucks. So I can't blame 'em for trying to make a profit. Reluctant pass
• Did you find what you were looking for? / How likely will you recommend our product? Mandated by spreadsheet-dicked middle managers who want metrics for...whatever middle managers do with metrics. God forbid that they would just look at their products and spot the obvious dysfunction. Fail

In conclusion, horrifying web UX is a land of contrast.

* In the interests of gender equity, the middle managers could also be spreadsheet-vaginaed, but that doesn't really roll off the tongue
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:12 AM on October 26, 2018 [46 favorites]

Too real.
posted by MrBobaFett at 8:17 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

And a Cookie Policy banner if you're in Europe.

I think they have this everywhere, certainly in the U.S. and Canada. I think it's easier just to do it everywhere than bother trying to make it country-specific, sort of a preview of how they'd go on to handle GDPR.

Please Disable Your Adblock / Donate … Reluctant pass

Hard fail. I have mine set to allow unobtrusive ads, in the interest of détente. If that's not enough for a site that's on them.
posted by traveler_ at 8:17 AM on October 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

I confess, I have sometimes subscribed to newsletters because of some 10-15% new customer voucher code bribery. But I tell you what is the worst. Where the the "No" button is some passive aggressive shit like "No, I hate saving money."

Fuck. You.
posted by like_neon at 8:18 AM on October 26, 2018 [113 favorites]

The thing I really want to know from people working in UX and front-end work is, has anyone ever actually fucking subscribed to a newsletter? How did this become a thing every site thinks people want?

Those sign-up things are requested demanded by the MBA/marketing drones, not the FE folks.
posted by slater at 8:20 AM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

I was just in Europe for the first time since the GDPR regulations went into affect and that shit is so annoying. Every. single. website.
posted by something something at 8:20 AM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

Those sign-up things are requested demanded by the MBA/marketing drones, not the FE folks.

Co-signed. Somewhere, sometime ago marketing departments heard how it's all about customer data and their little imaginations fail to go beyond equating that with "email address".

And when open rates as low as 5% are considered amazing, followed by even a smaller fraction for click-through rates, the only way they're gonna justify performance is through MOAR email addresses (ie even more aggressive email collecting tactics) or MOAR emails (spam).

Yeah, it's all broken. Burn it down.
posted by like_neon at 8:23 AM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

There's a whole tumblr dedicated to those terrible passive-aggressive opt-out notices. I think I hate the one on Ultimate Guitar the most, because it's barely even English: "No thanks, I don't want easy way" (when they're trying to sell you their whole easy-way-to-learn-guitar schtick).
posted by terretu at 8:23 AM on October 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

I have no problem allowing ads on my website. It's no different than picking up a Time magazine and ignoring the ads on the page of my article.

I have a problem when the ad software slows down or crashes my browser, or even downloads malware, which happens way more often than it should.
posted by Melismata at 8:24 AM on October 26, 2018 [16 favorites]

OH MY GOD, I work for this web site.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:26 AM on October 26, 2018 [16 favorites]

I remember when the internet was me asking if I could subscribe to your newsletter because I was interested in your product.
posted by chavenet at 8:28 AM on October 26, 2018 [13 favorites]

When websites say, “Please turn off your adblocker,” what I hear is, “I am indifferent to your personal safety and security.” I didn’t block for a decade, out of laziness more than anything, but when malware in ads started to be a thing (or rather - when I became aware of it), blocked everything I could figure out how to block, both on my own machines and my mother’s. Yes, I am completely okay with your company going out of business if my alternative is to get pwned by a Russian botnet or whatever. No, of course I am not going to trust that your ads are clean. I don’t even really trust you to know how the internet works at all.

100% nonstarter for me. I’ll subscribe if I find you repeatedly valuable but I won’t let you give me electronic syphilis.
posted by eirias at 8:28 AM on October 26, 2018 [63 favorites]

Some writers I follow SWEAR that those newsletter pop-ups have WORKED WONDERS for their mailing lists. I don't know what to think honestly.
posted by gc at 8:31 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Newsletter opt-ins are common because they work. The actual percentage of people who signup may be low, but the quality of those people as leads and customers are extremely high. As annoying as the popups are, they're super important for lead generation and revenue for a lot of sites - especially ones that don't have enough recurring content to drive automatic reengagement (by this I mean they're not sites you would normally visit every day without an email prompt).
posted by fremen at 8:33 AM on October 26, 2018 [20 favorites]

Much of the GDPR stuff that you see on websites isn't actually required, by EU regulation or otherwise. What happened is that a few people with a small-but-dangerous understanding of the regulation went into panic mode, decided that they really in fact had to pop up large, intrusive messages or they'd somehow get fined out of existence, and then everyone else who hadn't read the actual regulation just shrugged and copied what they'd seen elsewhere.
posted by pipeski at 8:34 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Mandated by spreadsheet-dicked middle managers who want metrics for...whatever middle managers do with metrics. God forbid that they would just look at their products and spot the obvious dysfunction.

Oh my god yes. I struggle with this on the daily. I can point out obviously broken pathways and the best I can get is 'maybe we split test that.' Why would you test a broken thing? Who's in charge? You or the law of small numbers?
posted by elwoodwiles at 8:34 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

Much of the GDPR stuff that you see on websites isn't actually required, by EU regulation or otherwise.

The fines for violating the GDPR are positively massive - something like 4% of global revenue. Are you sure you want to put that on the line to find out whether your use case is really legitimate interest? Or would rather just go with the stronger (and more defensible) consent basis instead?
posted by fremen at 8:37 AM on October 26, 2018 [10 favorites]

Newsletter opt-ins are common because they work.

If people perceive the value of your service, the pop-up registration is actually helpful - if they do not perceive the value, it's in the way. A good product isn't hurt by getting people to register/sign up/opt-in.
posted by elwoodwiles at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

It's not, say, The Atlantic's fault that the ad industry sucks.

It is if they aren't pushing back, demanding ad networks vet the ads they run. You know, make sure there isn't some goddamned vile payload in them.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2018 [7 favorites]

Missing: Chat with us!
posted by sageleaf at 8:44 AM on October 26, 2018 [33 favorites]

Needs a popover dialog with a close button that's invisible, offscreen, or too small to click.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:46 AM on October 26, 2018 [14 favorites]

I have mine set to allow unobtrusive ads, in the interest of détente. If that's not enough for a site that's on them.

traveler_, what setup do you use? I wouldn't mind allow simple ads, but I've been too lazy to try to figure out what setup will allow that and keep out the scripts and the giant payloads and zillion cookies.
posted by tavella at 8:48 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

And cookies, jeez, I occasionally turn off my ublock temporarily to do something, and I'll see 60 or 70 cookies from a single site!
posted by tavella at 8:49 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

I'm just going leave this here: Kill sticky headers. It's pure client-side javascript -- no calls to a server anywhere -- that you can add to a button on your toolbar. It kills most of those pop-ups dead, on contact. It's Raid for the web.
posted by treepour at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2018 [41 favorites]

perfect summary of irritants. I'd add:
Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market.

posted by fregoli at 9:00 AM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

No “go get our app”?
posted by aubilenon at 9:01 AM on October 26, 2018 [17 favorites]

* In the interests of gender equity, the middle managers could also be spreadsheet-vaginaed, but that doesn't really roll off the tongue

Also where is the Clippit
posted by Kabanos at 9:02 AM on October 26, 2018

The "Do you want to receive notifications?" popup is unrealistic, since my options were "yes" and "no" rather than "yes" and "ask me later."
posted by RobotHero at 9:05 AM on October 26, 2018 [17 favorites]

The absolute worst, and one I didn't see here:

HEY WE HAVE AN APP YOU SHOULD USE THAT OK? DOWNLOAD IT RIGHT HERE DO IT NOW YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO.

No. I don't care about your fucking app because I want your content in a browser, not another browser with a fucking promo wrapper around it with the special bonus feature of LESS FUNCTIONALITY.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2018 [40 favorites]

As infuriating as all these pop-ups are, the worst recent thing for me is those sites that seem to load for a few seconds so you move your mouse to click on what you want, then suddenly it "finishes loading" which changes the layout and you "accidentally" click on some other bullshit. I simply don't believe that this isn't intentional.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:07 AM on October 26, 2018 [63 favorites]

It's been said before, but if you're not giving something in exchange for use of a product, the currency is you.

If you cash a paycheck from an organization with web presence, this is part of turning bits into pennies.
posted by lon_star at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Ohhh you think WE prioritise the backlog? I'm actually kind of flattered you think we hold this kind of decision making power.

You really think that defense is going to fly when you're hauled in front of the W3C Tribunal for your crimes?
posted by ODiV at 9:16 AM on October 26, 2018 [11 favorites]

Think of these like evolutionary mutations. If they work (or, they don’t fail, per se), they survive to pass along their genes. If not ... well, have you seen a Punch the Monkey ad lately?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:16 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

It's been said before, but if you're not giving something in exchange for use of a product, the currency is you.

And where exactly should the revenue come to support the open web? Subscriptions? What about people who can't afford those subscriptions - do they not deserve content?

This argument comes up any time a discussion emerges over internet ads, and it's fundamentally elitist.
posted by fremen at 9:21 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

I subscribe to newsletters. If you're on facebook and twitter and everything else you'll probably see whatever is going on with this thing you care about. If you want to use social media less, newsletters are extremely helpful.
posted by tofu_crouton at 9:24 AM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

Tapatalk can fuck off as well.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 9:26 AM on October 26, 2018 [14 favorites]

middle managers who want metrics for...whatever middle managers do with metrics. God forbid that they would just look at their products

I suspect the attitude is that just looking at the actual product won't give them The Big Picture. Without that magical bit of "perspective", middle managers would - heaven forefend - be useless drones. I'd argue that that's their perspective's flawed, but I'd be preaching to the choir here.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:30 AM on October 26, 2018

The above-noted things missing, granted. But this website is a well and true hilarious eldritch horror as-is, I chuckled my way through my visit, then cried as any good person would when done. Great post!
posted by riverlife at 9:31 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Has anyone ever intentionally agreed to notifications from a website? What would they even be?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:35 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

I've worked for one of these (I didn't last long).

Do you want to receive notifications?
Subscribe to Our Newsletter

Translation: We're desperate to boost our user numbers to lure investors/buyers.

Please Disable Your Adblock / Donate

Translation: We took our business model from 1999 and we're screwed!

Did you find what you were looking for?

Translation: We already have 10 trackers that can tell us this, but we don't know how to use them.
posted by howling fantods at 9:35 AM on October 26, 2018 [10 favorites]

And where exactly should the revenue come to support the open web?

Sorry, not my problem. The site owners are not paying me for my time to come up with a working business model for them.
posted by DreamerFi at 9:38 AM on October 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

Also, not sure which came first, but recently on Twitter.
posted by howling fantods at 9:40 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Also missing: all links hidden in a tiny, easily overlooked hamburger menu.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 9:43 AM on October 26, 2018 [16 favorites]

Missing: link to Zergnet.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:48 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

where exactly should the revenue come to support the open web?...do they not deserve content?

The premise that the 'web' was not full of content and sustainable before current business models is willfully ignorant to the point of trolling.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:54 AM on October 26, 2018 [25 favorites]

"I confess, I have sometimes subscribed to newsletters because of some 10-15% new customer voucher code bribery. But I tell you what is the worst. Where the the "No" button is some passive aggressive shit like "No, I hate saving money."

I think what's worse is when a website emails you with 'Hey! Did you leave this behind?' LOOK SOMETIMES I LIKE TO ADD AUTOBIOGRAPHIES OF CANNON AND BALL TO MY BASKET AND NOT BUY THEM, AMAZON
posted by mippy at 9:59 AM on October 26, 2018 [7 favorites]

And where exactly should the revenue come to support the open web? Subscriptions? What about people who can't afford those subscriptions - do they not deserve content?

This argument comes up any time a discussion emerges over internet ads, and it's fundamentally elitist.

Micropayments. Now of course you're going to say 'but micropayments are impractical and have never worked', except Google actually had a service called 'contributor' where you would pay Google to bid on ads for yourself, and thereby turn their ad network into a micropayment network. I let the service spend up to $5/month on my behalf, and it usually only spent maybe $3-4, and yet that got rid of almost all the ads. Which is why I think Google shut it down: it didn't want people to know how much bullshit they put up with, how much the entire web has been reshaped to serve the interests Ad Networks, how much privacy and security they have given up, for the absolutely massive sum of $40-60/year/person.
posted by Pyry at 10:02 AM on October 26, 2018 [34 favorites]

Needs an unnecessary autoplay video which, when you try to stop it, shrinks to the side and follows you down the screen.

Bonus points if the video has infuriatingly twee ukulele and glockenspiel music.
posted by dephlogisticated at 10:04 AM on October 26, 2018 [29 favorites]

infuriatingly twee ukulele and glockenspiel music

Implying there is any other kind?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 10:08 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Every UK local newspaper site is like this now. I understand they need to make money, but I've clicked onto articles numerous times and found them near unreadable as the ads are so intrusive. There must be a better way to do it.

I particularly hate how The Guardian has those Taboola type ads now, which for me always makes a media outlet look far less credible.
posted by mippy at 10:09 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

WaPo wants me to disable ad-blocking though I have disabled ad-blocking. They have content I want several times a month, so I have to copy the URL, open in another browser. I will not disable privacy settings or enable autoplay for flash or anything else. But that's just for WaPo, and I resent it even then. You spent effort getting me to your article, but Ctrl+W takes so little effort.

I feel bad for whoever has the email address [e-mail], [e-mail], etc., as I just sign up for them frequently. On mobile, it can be impossible to close the popover. I hope MBA-Dude gets those email addresses as proof of success.

Fucking autoplayng videos are *everywhere* and can be a pain to disable. Chrome is really bad about this, so I'm using FFox. I don't want video. Maybe a few times a month, I'll watch a cute video on Instagram. Esp. on my phone, I Do Not Want Your Video. I wish browsers were more helpful about this And I wish there was an Automatically Reject Subscription and Notification Offers option.

Sincerely, [e-mail]
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on October 26, 2018 [13 favorites]

And where exactly should the revenue come to support the open web? Subscriptions?

I haven't a clue, but wish I did.

I run a website--it now hosts 500K images, with about 1M lines in the database that serves the site. I get about 8K unique visitors a month. It costs roughly $100 a month to host, with disk space and bandwidth and what-not, 200 hours a year just to keep it going at a minimal-engagement level. Let's say that by making the site someone's full-time job (there's plenty to do), the new features added raised unique visitors to 20K per month, with maybe 1K of those "hard-core" users who might be willing to pay to keep using the service, if they had to.

How do you bring in $100K a year (the rough salary for a professional with the skills needed) from that user base? I don't think you can. Advertising definitely isn't the way. The 1,000 "hard-core" users aren't going to pay $100 a year to use the sites. I'd be surprised if they'd spend much more than $10 a year. You probably wouldn't even be able to eek out a minimum-wage living.

And yet...I was just reading yesterday of an online-ad-fraud syndicate which "stole" $750M in a year, with what seemed like a few crappy apps. So someone is making bank on advertising, and someone is paying said bank.

(Just to be clear, the world does not "owe" anyone a living from a small-time website, but, just like the arts, the world kind-of expects there to be stuff like this around, not as something which needs to be paid for, mind. I'm just as guilty as the next person in regards to that.)

I suppose we need to keep giving money to Apple and Google and Facebook in the amounts we do, eh?

Sigh. Time for the therapist again.
posted by maxwelton at 10:20 AM on October 26, 2018 [15 favorites]

Banning all ads and trackers is a security necessity. Disabling one's adblocker is akin to leaving your front door open with a sign on it saying "I really dislike this place, come ruin it for me!". Any site that does not ensure the ads they serve are free and clear is absolutely complicit.

I think literally the only place I've ever disabled uBlock Origin for on a permanent basis was MetaFilter, in fact, because they stated outright that they personally vetted the ads, and there was no hinky horseplay going on with them, which I verified. I've emailed other sites that ask me to disable adblocker to ask if they use the same level of care with their ad services, but no response. So, welp.

Signed,
a security engineer
posted by XtinaS at 10:21 AM on October 26, 2018 [33 favorites]

I never accept the cookie warning.

I read the articles anyway.

What are the legal consequences of this for them and for me?
posted by clawsoon at 10:21 AM on October 26, 2018 [7 favorites]

tocts : - The same rotating set of ONE SIMPLE TRICK or AND THEN THIS HAPPENED clickbait image links at the bottom all vaguely about a famous person's looks or dark secret or some other bullshit. 1 in 5 should include a photo of lotus pods or other common trypophobia triggers.

There was a Reply All episode about this fairly recently. A picture of a poor guy's late wife was appearing everywhere via these ads, and the in the episode they try to get the companies serving these ads to stop using the picture.

From that episode, I learned that those sets of image links at the bottom of a page have a fitting name: the chum box.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:30 AM on October 26, 2018 [5 favorites]

Oh, and it needs more ads for random Chinese clothing sites.

I actually bought a dress from one of those once. It was fine except way, WAY too small for the labeled size (like, it said 14 but was around a 6), and every other email in my spam folder is from them.

Has anyone ever intentionally agreed to notifications from a website? What would they even be?

A lot of companies are moving towards the idea that we're all browsing on our phones now.
posted by Melismata at 10:38 AM on October 26, 2018

The Atlantic has been surviving on ads for 150 years, it's not that, it's the ad networks leeching off... everything. Native ads (sold and run by the site itself) are tried and true moneymakers. Yes, you have to hire ad people, but that is also a proven part of the business model.

"Just add internet!" has been a joke for long enough that we should be able to tell when it's not working for everything. Like ads.
posted by rhizome at 10:42 AM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

In fairness, it's "not all" websites. Taking one at random, I'm looking at the website of international popstar Peter Andre. No pop-ups, or GDPR or cookie messages and I'm straight on the main page, looking at the dates of tours (which is what many people want when they come to his website). There are things such as a newsletter you can subscribe to, but that's part of a page and you aren't forced to do something to avoid it.

So, top marks for Peter. Well, nearly top marks as the videos are searchable but not browsable, and having news items as tweets leads to a lack of content in each item. But, no pop-ups, cookies, requests to rate the site and so on.
posted by Wordshore at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

Needs an ad that ask desktop users to 'please rotate your device'
posted by cirgue at 11:02 AM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

Please Disable Your Adblock

No - the trust isn't there... too much historical malware and metrics tracking (auto-logon/connection's to social and tracking sites). Besides, on my portable workstation, I don't use any adblocking software... waste of CPU cycles and memory - plus who knows how many security issues from browser plug-in's... A plug-in might be trustworthy for awhile, but we have seen them roll-over for advertising networks, be bought out and then re-purposed for "tracking", or simply be riddled with their own secuirty holes...

However, I do use a local HOSTS file and block via DNS... Because that machine might be on any number of networks while travelling.

Meanwhile, on my home network, I use "Pi-Hole".

So technically no users on my network can "disable adblocking", and I am certainly not taking the time to trawl through several hundred thousand lines in the HOSTS file to find your site-specific trackers and remove them - so, I just don't visit your site ever again...
posted by jkaczor at 11:15 AM on October 26, 2018 [8 favorites]

I particularly hate how The Guardian has those Taboola type ads now, which for me always makes a media outlet look far less credible.

My pet peeve with the Graun is the big yellow please-give-us-some-money pop-up that covers half the screen on mobile. Not so much the pop-up itself - I get it, you make terrible business decisions, you sold autotrader, now you need to beg for cash - but the fact that the “close pop-up” button in the top right corner is circular. Not “appears to be circular for the sake of aesthetics”, but “yeah, actually is circular”. If your finger accidentally touches any of the corner outside of the button it’s all “yay new subscriber let’s open another tab”. C’mon man. What’re the chances that I wanted to signal “yes please” but instead of pressing literally anywhere on the lower half of my phone screen i decided to press that tiny marooned triangle of pixels in the very top right corner, just half a millimetre beyond the big “no thanks, fuck off” button?

I mean, why not just leave a circular looking button but make the actual underlying button a square that covers the entire top right corner??
posted by chappell, ambrose at 11:15 AM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

What really sucks is that even when I've signed up for your newsletter, I still get that damn popup! Like yes I've signed up get off my screen!
posted by Carillon at 11:23 AM on October 26, 2018 [11 favorites]

Needs an unnecessary autoplay video which, when you try to stop it, shrinks to the side and follows you down the screen.

The javascript bookmarklet linked above takes care of this too, thankfully.  Bonus, pages respond noticeably faster once you strip away the floating cruft, especially on older devices.  It's very satisfying to click the bookmark for it in the toolbar and have all that crap vanish.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 11:23 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Has anyone ever intentionally agreed to notifications from a website? What would they even be?

To answer your question: A family member did it once on one of their tablets and now I am tasked with figuring out how to disable notifications for that site, because of course everytime you visit it now it DOES NOT POP UP a "Notifications are enabled for this site, would you like to disable them?" for some strange reason.

W3C tribunal indeed.
posted by some loser at 11:46 AM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

"intentionally" in this case meaning "tapped something intentionally, no way of knowing if they actually understood what they were doing, or if they fat-fingered it and tapped yes by accident."
posted by some loser at 11:47 AM on October 26, 2018

Does anybody read email newsletters?
posted by theora55 at 11:53 AM on October 26, 2018

This thread reminds me, I want to sign up for a newsletter. brb...
posted by elizilla at 11:59 AM on October 26, 2018

Does anybody read email newsletters?

Me.

Harper’s Weekly Review and (the light-hearted and witty) Bloomberg Money Stuff by Matt Levine. Sinocism by Bill Bishop, before he started doing it regularly and charging for it. Popbitch back in the day. Also weekly vacancy newsletters from two major recruitment sites that specialise in my field. Also newsletters from bands whose albums I’ve bought previously - in fact, last weekend I went to an abjectly terrifying screening of “Häxan” in a tiny 30-seat cinema in an abandoned office block, scored by one of my favourite sinister electronic musicians. I wouldn’t have known about it if I hadn’t scanned his newsletter a few days before.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:00 PM on October 26, 2018 [9 favorites]

As terrible as the digital ad industry is, commercial sites overwhelmingly rely on ad revenue to make their business models viable.

Viable business models are not the ones that are result in an arms race with the desired customers. They rely on ad revenue which is an endless race to crowd out the content of their website - you know, the stuff people actually clicked on the link to read - while people's ad-blindness zones grow ever larger.

The ads blocked by ad-blocking software occasionally contain malware, and often are user-hostile: NSFW images, blinking lights, autoplay sound or video. If websites had stuck with text-based ads, adblockers would be a rare geek thing.

There are several other potential business models: Hand-selected ads, just like magazines and newspapers have; subscriptions; donations (AO3 hosts over 4 million fanworks); sales of goods and services (in which the website becomes part of the advertising budget, instead of trying to support itself) (BoingBoing); gov't or corporate grant money... not all of these are viable for every business, but "must serve random ads loosely based on tracking data acquired from other ad-serving businesses" is certainly not the only possible economic model for a website.

They're using ads because those are easy, and because the courts have refused to assign responsibility for malware to the host site or the ad provider. They're not using them because they're the best business model; they're using ads because they're a no-brainer business model that brings in some revenue.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:21 PM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

Me too. Tons of stuff from knitting and sewing companies.
posted by Melismata at 12:21 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Does anybody read email newsletters?

Sigh, wouldn't be necessary if the big players didn't kill off "feeds" (i.e. RSS/Atom) and decent aggregating readers/websites...
posted by jkaczor at 12:23 PM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

What really sucks is that even when I've signed up for your newsletter, I still get that damn popup! Like yes I've signed up get off my screen!

Ah yes, the NPR Donation Problem.
posted by rhizome at 12:25 PM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

where you get to see the page for a full five seconds, start reading, and THEN...

...you get a pop-up saying "Don't miss your chance to reserve this room" while you're literally halfway through entering your credit card number. Looking at you, Expedia.
posted by asnider at 12:48 PM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Even Twitter recently, running on an old iPad in safari while not being logged in to Twitter, has become completely useless, covered up, and browser-locking.
posted by Windopaene at 12:53 PM on October 26, 2018

To reiterate what others have said: websites are not OWED ad dollars. If the business model isn't working, it's up to the owners of the websites to figure out a new way to make money, or admit that their business has failed.

It's not just potential malware that has me running ad blockers. Sites (like Cracked.com...holy shit, Cracked.com, get it together) have ads that use redirect links so I'm reading the site through the ad's code, ads that make scrolling skip or stop dead when my thumb runs across them, and ads that take up so much space that I'm forced to view the actual content through on third of my screen.

This makes me not want to visit your website. Ever.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 1:05 PM on October 26, 2018 [8 favorites]

I wonder how long it took the first WWW users to complain about the first ads back in the 90s?

I'm going, "it was measured in picoseconds."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:23 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Advertising on Usenet predates those on the web by about six months. It was a big hullaballoo.
posted by rhizome at 1:48 PM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

I was complaining about ads on TV before the WWW was even a gleam in Berner-Lee's eye. And I wasn't alone either.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:52 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Does anybody read email newsletters?

The last one I signed up for was from Reductress. I like getting pinged via email that basically says "that site you like a lot just added some new articles, here's their headlines and blurbs".

Telling me to disable my adblocker though is a non-starter.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:59 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

I just got an interstitial where the "return me to the website" button was marked "Continue without supporting us, babies or puppies"
posted by Leon at 2:07 PM on October 26, 2018 [5 favorites]

I'm kinda OK with the Cookie Policy banner because I treat every recurrence as a reminder that I haven't done an unwanted-cookie purge in the past several minutes, so it must be time for one. And I'll second the recommendation for the kill-sticky-headers scriptlet thingumy, while pointing out that I first learned of it via John Gruber of Daring Fireball and thus use his name for it: Kill Dickbars
posted by HillbillyInBC at 2:10 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

> I feel bad for whoever has the email address [e-mail], [e-mail], etc., as I just sign up for them frequently.

Similarly, I hope nobody actually uses nunya@damn,business.com
posted by HillbillyInBC at 2:17 PM on October 26, 2018

Maybe it's just me, but I think I see the "do you want to receive notifications" prompts a lot less often than I used to; presumably because the answer is always "HELL NO."

Are you 18 or more years old? I mean, if a site is asking this, it's probably for legal reasons

Not necessarily: age gates on alcohol websites are voluntary industry practice, not a legal requirement.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2018

Does anybody read email newsletters?

Not only do I read and enjoy newsletters regularly, I also publish two of them, and a fair number of my readers are engaged enough that they pay monthly or annually for subscriptions. And my subscriber counts are growing slowly but surely. However, I don't have any annoying pop-ups on my websites to try to entice people to subscribe. Most of my readers find me through social media recommendations and Google searches.

Reader-supported (and therefore ad-free) newsletters and web discussion forums are becoming my "bridge" away from Facebook and Twitter, which is one reason I love them. With newsletters and forums of the sort I follow, I am in control of how I interact with them. That's the crucial point. My attention is not being hijacked for the sake of ad revenues. I can automatically sort the newsletters into folders that I look at when I am so inclined, rather than having to deal with all the coercive bullshit foisted upon me without my consent by a typical 2018-era website.
posted by velvet winter at 2:31 PM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

Does anybody read email newsletters?
A clutch of them, mostly for professional purposes. I would much rather they were web content.
posted by doctornemo at 3:07 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

Does anybody read email newsletters?

Yes! There's a librarian / Justice of the Peace / agitator of the masses who lives in deepest Vermont and writes a good newsletter about libraries and related activism, access, equality and other issues. Available by email subscription or web archive.
posted by Wordshore at 3:18 PM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

I like email notifications and newsletters in theory and would sign up for them if I could trust that those sites I engaged with wouldn't flood my mailbox with crap, sell my information, or otherwise use it for purposes that I am not interested in. Unfortunately that hasn't been my experience with many of the notifications I have used, so I won't sign up even if I would like the service for legit purposes.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:34 PM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

I love (in the "thanks, I hate it" sense of the word) the cookie policy banners because they all basically say "even if you close this notification we take that as acceptance of our policy. If you somehow manage to use this site whilst ignoring this notification, and not clicking agree, we take that to mean you agree anyhow. Also there is no option to say you don't agree. Have a great day!!"
posted by some loser at 3:44 PM on October 26, 2018 [4 favorites]

I get a fair amount of email newsletters. I can skim through them in a fraction of the time I could load and read a website or social media post. It's my preferred communication, otherwise I'm just not going to know about some things.
posted by bongo_x at 4:20 PM on October 26, 2018

What I love (thanks, I hate it) are the sites that say "By continuing to use this site you acknowledge that you accept our cookie policy and terms of use. You will only see this notice on your first visit" and then show it to you every freaking time you do. Looking at you and scowling, Cool Tools.
posted by Lexica at 4:22 PM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

There is a discussion site that I read sometimes for professional information. It is not run by my employer or any formal organization, it's just hosted on a general forum site. If I look at it on my desktop, I get a huge pop-up begging me to turn my adblock off. But I am not going to, because when I have tried to look at it on my phone the browser gets hijacked by a screaming scammy thing that presumably rides in on their advertising.

I don't try to read it on my phone any more. I don't look at it from my desktop that much, either.
posted by dilettante at 4:24 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

There is a special place in h*ck for search boxes that appear, and I start typing to search the thing, then focus is radically wrested from me, so ok I go back to typing the thing, and then it is rudely wrested AGAIN, and then I lie limp, waiting until I can fucking search already, geez guys. I am attempting to engage! I probably even want to buy something, idiots! Please don't fuck with me!

*ahem*.
posted by cats are weird at 5:14 PM on October 26, 2018 [10 favorites]

The premise that the 'web' was not full of content and sustainable before current business models is willfully ignorant to the point of trolling.

Everybody wants to quit their day job, and corporations need their mega-profits.

Ah, the free and open internet that will empower and educate us all!
posted by BlueHorse at 5:54 PM on October 26, 2018

Another Firefox/Chome addon for the toolbox here: I don't care about cookies.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 6:08 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

It's startling how the global connectedness has me wanting to move to a cabin in the woods.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:17 PM on October 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Just want to second the hate for websites where, just when you finally think they've finished loading and dare to click something, they move by just enough that you click on the adjacent item.
posted by salvia at 9:48 PM on October 26, 2018 [6 favorites]

I love newsletters! My current favorite is What a Day from Crooked Media. But I'm pretty sure every single newsletter I get is one I actively sought out, rather than one I found via a popup or somesuch.
posted by triggerfinger at 10:25 PM on October 26, 2018

So I’ll just plug outline.com while it still exists.

Subscribe to my newsletter!
posted by pompomtom at 10:42 PM on October 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

All this crap is affecting the way I use MetaFilter. More than half the links go to sites that demand I kill my adblocker, or demand that I sign in (USING FUCKING FACEBOOK no less) or those sticky dickbars. So many times I never get to RTFA and just try to glean the gist from other MeFi's comments. I try not to comment since I haven't RTFA.

It's very frustrating when y'all try to share some cool thing you've found and half the sites are paywalled, area blocked, or blanketed in threats/pleas/demands to strip any protections from the viewer. How the hell can I tell if I ever want to visit the damn website again when I can't even get one pageview without jumping through objectionable hoops.

I do subscribe to a few newsletters, my favorite being Tech Tales from Small Dog. Been subscribed since about 1995.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 10:51 PM on October 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

HillbillyInBC: I haven't done an unwanted-cookie purge in the past several minutes, so it must be time for one.

I can perhaps help here by pointing out Cookie AutoDelete for Firefox. It will automatically kill unwanted cookies within (a definable number of) seconds after you leave the site. Marvelous thing.

I'm no help at all if you don't use Firefox of course.
posted by Gamecat at 1:58 AM on October 27, 2018

Has anyone mentioned the pop-up that does the "We want all your data, do you agree to this? Y N" pop-up thing, except instead of No it has Manage Your Preferences, which takes you down a rabbit hole of proliferating options with no clear actions available, just more options. The implication being that if you did ever get to a checkbox, you'd have to go down all the other branches of the tree to click all the other options. Or you could just click "Yes". That was a non-disreputable website - don't remember what it was, but kind of Huffington Post, Buzzfeed level. Which I don't read any more, obviously.

I find I'm reading a lot more pages using Reader Mode in Safari (that's what it's called, yes? the parallel lines icon in the address bar), which can bypass a lot of the shit and just show me the page. I'd even like to make it the default mode for reading websites. If it doesn't help, I just wander away. There are very few things I need to read that badly that I'll just submit.

(It feels like that, doesn't it? Like an asshole fratboy who really needs you to know who's in charge here.)

I'm expecting a Web 1.0 revival right about now. I'm definitely spending a lot more time on old-style message boards than social media.
posted by Grangousier at 2:11 AM on October 27, 2018 [6 favorites]

> I feel bad for whoever has the email address [e-mail], [e-mail], etc., as I just sign up for them frequently. […] Sincerely, [e-mail]

Maybe signing up [e-mail] or [e-mail] would be more effective.

> I like getting pinged via email that basically says "that site you like a lot just added some new articles, here's their headlines and blurbs".

That sounds like a clunky RSS replacement to me…
posted by farlukar at 2:33 AM on October 27, 2018 [3 favorites]

I'm expecting a Web 1.0 revival right about now. I'm definitely spending a lot more time on old-style message boards than social media.

Yes! Since getting off social media, I've tried to reconstruct my web habits of about 2002. That means spending more time on esoteric message boards and sites life kottke.

If it requires a Facebook log in, then I don't use it. Really though, the internet is now just podcasts to me.

If i could figure out a way to reliably update podcasts without a smart phone, my life would be complete.
posted by Telf at 2:48 AM on October 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

I hate getting an audio ad on a text site. A video or otherwise active ad when I am at a text article. I subscribe to a print mag, imagine my dismay if the ads started to move or got noisy. I mean, it would be cool for 3 seconds, but then I would be on the phone, cancelling my subscription, demanding a refund.

You know who makes bank? Craigslist. No graphics on the main page. Nothing pushed at you. Wanna buy stuff? Okay, here ya go. (mobile interface is meh, though.) I don't get video or popups on ebay, either. Advertisers don't care what I want; they just want their gods in front of my face. But publishers should get better at providing ads that will support the site without making me flee.
posted by theora55 at 10:05 AM on October 27, 2018 [2 favorites]

I feel bad for whoever has the email address [e-mail], [e-mail], etc., as I just sign up for them frequently.

Next time, use 10minute mail: does what it says on the tin, gives you a temp email valid for ten minutes, to get you registrered at choady sites you don't want to give your real email.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:26 PM on October 27, 2018 [2 favorites]

Incidently, talking about misbehaving websites, boy is Youtube fscking slow and awful in Firefox these days. Like grinding my computer to a halt level of awful.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2018 [1 favorite]

Also something has broken or changed in the past couple of days and now I have autoplay videos again in Firefox and can't stop them. I *did* have them blocked before.
posted by dilettante at 2:46 PM on October 27, 2018

Disable Adblock? Hell to the No.

Not only do I use uBlock Origin to remove your stupid ads, but if you have any CSS elements that don't scroll with the rest of the page? Element Picker, Delete.
Your cookie banner? delete.
Your modal pop-over? delete.
Your social media icon tray? delete.
Your navigation buttons? delete.
Your sticky header? delete.
If all that manages to break your website? Oh well, I didn't need it anyway.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:56 PM on October 27, 2018 [5 favorites]

The thing I like best is when you somehow get on their mailing list and click "unsubscribe" in the email (instead of spam-blocking them instantly, I mean hey let's try to be friendly here) and then require you to type in your own email address to effect the unsubscribe.
posted by gottabefunky at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2018 [3 favorites]

The mobile experience would have been better if I had been constantly asked to download the app.
posted by clark at 4:13 PM on October 28, 2018

One particularly infuriating thing at the moment is sites that block all European traffic with a 451 code. You haven’t been fucking outlawed.
posted by lucidium at 4:18 AM on October 29, 2018

Telf: Yes! Since getting off social media, I've tried to reconstruct my web habits of about 2002. That means spending more time on esoteric message boards and sites life kottke.

Hobby and craft boards are the best of the Internet. Just this morning I got frustrated with the ugly holes that my drill bits were making in balsa. Do old people on RC forums have the answer? Of course they do!
posted by clawsoon at 6:09 AM on October 29, 2018 [4 favorites]

"We want all your data, do you agree to this? Y N" pop-up thing, except instead of No it has Manage Your Preferences, which takes you down a rabbit hole of proliferating options

That violates the GDPR, but it'll probably take a while for the lawsuits to get down to that level; I'm pretty sure everyone's waiting to see if Google and Facebook, and maybe Oath, get slammed, before they start working on their own setups.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:42 PM on October 29, 2018 [1 favorite]

I hope nobody actually uses [e-mail]

i've been using [e-mail] since 1996.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:16 PM on October 29, 2018

I prefer sales@[theirdomain]...there's always someone on the other side of that one.
posted by rhizome at 3:27 PM on October 29, 2018 [4 favorites]

I dropped off this thread and neglected to come back to respond, which is bad on me. I apologize. Still, I have to make a couple of point here:

The premise that the 'web' was not full of content and sustainable before current business models is willfully ignorant to the point of trolling.

All you have to do is look at Metafilter itself for your counterexample. It has a reasonably sized audience that some news sites might dream of, but it barely survives on user donations and limited advertising. Plus, all the content here is user generated, which means that Metafilter doesn't even have to pay for any of its own content production staff.

Wikipedia is another example of a site that's supported by donations. But once again, they have a huge scale that's the envy of most of the web, and they don't produce any of their own content.

Producing original content is expensive, and ads have generally proven themselves to be one of the best ways to generate revenue to support that content. And while there are definitely places on the web that create great original content without ads - Ben Thompson's Stratechery is a good example - these sites are usually niche and have a hard time generalizing their models to other areas.

Micropayments. Now of course you're going to say 'but micropayments are impractical and have never worked', except Google actually had a service called 'contributor' where you would pay Google to bid on ads for yourself, and thereby turn their ad network into a micropayment network.

You mean like this?

I've written before about how micropayments are hard and why ads are the preferred model for most content sites trying to achieve scale. Micropayments can work, but the implementation is not at all easy or straightforward.
posted by fremen at 6:34 AM on November 1, 2018

You mean like this?

That is a pretty sad page, do they have more than those two partners? All in all, just by appearances I would not call it a living concern.

I've written before about how micropayments are hard

Harder than n-layer advertising auctions and paywall-evasion blockers and any number of daily-use technologies? I doubt it, I think it's just a matter of priorities. These companies say they only hire the best of the best.
posted by rhizome at 9:31 AM on November 1, 2018