Price Gouging During COVID-19
March 16, 2020 11:55 AM Subscribe
Price gouging, while illegal, is common. There is no shortage of stories going around about people buying up mass quantities of items to resell at high prices. Including one about someone trying to buy up the potential vaccine wholesale, with the intent to provide it "for profit" only. In a country where people born with diabetes can die from lack of affordable medication, are we really so shocked that so much of the general populace sees this behavior as normal?
Moreso, what does it say about us when we continue to only punish the poor for price gouging? Those "enterprising entrepreneurs" were making strikingly similar arguments for their price gouging as pharmaceutical companies do, namely, that they needed to recoup their investment.
strikingly similar
If you consider "buying an existing product from the store" and "spending billions of dollars to get FDA approval" the same, sure.
posted by sideshow at 12:07 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
If you consider "buying an existing product from the store" and "spending billions of dollars to get FDA approval" the same, sure.
posted by sideshow at 12:07 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
Strikingly similar arguments.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:10 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:10 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
As long as we're throwing out the Constitution, can we have the public pillory back?
posted by thelonius at 12:13 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:13 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm kind of glad that the people in the CBC article are out in BC because if they were anywhere near Toronto I'd be sorely tempted to egg, or otherwise mildly vandalize their house.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:15 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:15 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you consider "buying an existing product from the store" and "spending billions of dollars to get FDA approval" the same, sure.
Obviously it was in reference to stuff like insulin (did you actually read anything?). Nice straw man tho.
posted by nzero at 12:19 PM on March 16, 2020 [23 favorites]
Obviously it was in reference to stuff like insulin (did you actually read anything?). Nice straw man tho.
posted by nzero at 12:19 PM on March 16, 2020 [23 favorites]
I've seen "name and shame" posts on Imgur, but no one blames Amazon for letting people sell store-bought supplies online for five times what it costs at the store.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on March 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:22 PM on March 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
Honestly, Amazon is making out like fucking bandits during all this, since everybody is freaked out and ordering things online. The fact that Bezos hasn't stepped up or Inslee hasn't demanded he step up makes me fucking ill.
posted by deadaluspark at 12:23 PM on March 16, 2020 [18 favorites]
posted by deadaluspark at 12:23 PM on March 16, 2020 [18 favorites]
Getting Amazon to change requires legislation. Getting individuals to change requires social stigma. Name & shame away, and vote for candidates who will enact corporate reform.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:26 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:26 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
No one loathes Amazon more than I do, but they do seem to be trying to stop the price gouging and dubious self-published books on coronavirus.
And that hoarder was eventually scared/shamed into donating all those hoarded supplies.
There are also many many stories right now of lovely human beings (and organizations they lead) doing wonderful things to provide discounts and other accommodations to customers, continuing to provide wages to employees who can't come to work, making and donating hand sanitizer, etc., etc.
It has been good for my own mental health during this crisis to revisit the reminder from Rebecca Solnit (earlier) that most of us are eager to do the right thing, especially in rough times: A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster.
posted by PhineasGage at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2020 [45 favorites]
And that hoarder was eventually scared/shamed into donating all those hoarded supplies.
There are also many many stories right now of lovely human beings (and organizations they lead) doing wonderful things to provide discounts and other accommodations to customers, continuing to provide wages to employees who can't come to work, making and donating hand sanitizer, etc., etc.
It has been good for my own mental health during this crisis to revisit the reminder from Rebecca Solnit (earlier) that most of us are eager to do the right thing, especially in rough times: A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster.
posted by PhineasGage at 12:27 PM on March 16, 2020 [45 favorites]
Getting Amazon to change requires legislation
Washington State residents on Metafilter can report instances of price gouging to the state AG here.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:29 PM on March 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
Washington State residents on Metafilter can report instances of price gouging to the state AG here.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:29 PM on March 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
Now I'm writing a letter to my AG about freaking bidet prices. What happened to my life?
posted by deadaluspark at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by deadaluspark at 12:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
Mod note: few comments removed, no one needs your potentially devil's advocate hot take link on what is OK about price gouging. You have misread the room.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:53 PM on March 16, 2020 [49 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 12:53 PM on March 16, 2020 [49 favorites]
It's always humorous to watch libertarians defend this shit, especially when they say that gouging ensures that people will resell instead of horde. Well why not just put a limit on how many people can buy, instead? Oh we can't do that, because muh free market. They're nuttier than a can of planters.
posted by Beholder at 12:57 PM on March 16, 2020 [24 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 12:57 PM on March 16, 2020 [24 favorites]
One of the few laws Republican AGs will enforce here in Florida is the price gouging law, which automatically kicks in when a state of emergency is declared. Almost every time there is a hurricane (weather-related or otherwise), the office comes down like a ton of bricks on at least a few people who get the idea to buy up a store's entire supply of generators or bottled water or whatever. And every time the price gougers whinge about not making the money they expected or losing money and how they are obviously providing a service since desperate people are buying.
It ain't like these laws haven't been on the books in many states for a century or more at this point. We all understand the concept of cornering a market. There have been blockbuster films involving exactly that. If they were really trying to provide a service, they would be charging a couple of percent markup at most (after all, hauling the stuff from the store to the neighborhood is a service), but they aren't, they are trying to take advantage of disaster by restricting supply, forcing desperate people to give them a windfall profit.
It's just too bad we don't have effective laws against the rest of the disaster capitalism playbook.
posted by wierdo at 12:59 PM on March 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
It ain't like these laws haven't been on the books in many states for a century or more at this point. We all understand the concept of cornering a market. There have been blockbuster films involving exactly that. If they were really trying to provide a service, they would be charging a couple of percent markup at most (after all, hauling the stuff from the store to the neighborhood is a service), but they aren't, they are trying to take advantage of disaster by restricting supply, forcing desperate people to give them a windfall profit.
It's just too bad we don't have effective laws against the rest of the disaster capitalism playbook.
posted by wierdo at 12:59 PM on March 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
I've been working since last week with my client to limit purchases in every way possible so that their stores aren't emptied out by hoarders. It is more difficult that you might imagine.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:09 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:09 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm kind of glad that the people in the CBC article are out in BC because if they were anywhere near Toronto I'd be sorely tempted to egg, or otherwise mildly vandalize their house.
they would just wipe it off haha on you
No, with their names forever immortalized online as people who were glad to profit from the fears of others during a pandemic, I'm sure they have decades of instalment plan karma coming their way.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:17 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
they would just wipe it off haha on you
No, with their names forever immortalized online as people who were glad to profit from the fears of others during a pandemic, I'm sure they have decades of instalment plan karma coming their way.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:17 PM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don’t care who does it. In a declared national and global emergency where millions of lives are at stake they should face the same penalties as looters.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 1:20 PM on March 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 1:20 PM on March 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
→ I'm sure they have decades of instalment plan karma coming their way.
Their Amazon storefront is currently rated at 33%. That's going to be hard to recover from.
posted by scruss at 1:30 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Their Amazon storefront is currently rated at 33%. That's going to be hard to recover from.
posted by scruss at 1:30 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
I don’t care who does it. In a declared national and global emergency where millions of lives are at stake they should face the same penalties as looters.
I'm not sure that I agree. People who take food from stores in an emergency have a legal defense of necessity. From society's viewpoint, a bit of broken glass is better than a bit of starvation. There should be no penalty for that kind of "looting"
In contrast, hoarding goods for resale should be a felony. It is a disgusting crime. In the case of people who hoard life-protecting equipment it should be punished as we punish murder.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [23 favorites]
I'm not sure that I agree. People who take food from stores in an emergency have a legal defense of necessity. From society's viewpoint, a bit of broken glass is better than a bit of starvation. There should be no penalty for that kind of "looting"
In contrast, hoarding goods for resale should be a felony. It is a disgusting crime. In the case of people who hoard life-protecting equipment it should be punished as we punish murder.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 1:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [23 favorites]
That's going to be hard to recover from.
They'll just open a new store. If they had a bricks and mortar establishment at least it could be firebombed. These people should be shunned by their community, that would be hard to recover from.
posted by epo at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
They'll just open a new store. If they had a bricks and mortar establishment at least it could be firebombed. These people should be shunned by their community, that would be hard to recover from.
posted by epo at 1:39 PM on March 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
They found and emptied one of the storage units in TN, here is how.
posted by jeather at 1:40 PM on March 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by jeather at 1:40 PM on March 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
I'll trade you two bottles of hand sanitizer for a majority share in American Airlines stock.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:03 PM on March 16, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:03 PM on March 16, 2020 [10 favorites]
I'm kind of glad that the people in the CBC article are out in BC because if they were anywhere near Toronto I'd be sorely tempted to egg, or otherwise mildly vandalize their house.
they would just wipe it off haha on you
Yeah, sorry, I'm not a keyboard warrior. About the most I can do to them is something mildly annoying like that. Not going to slash their tires or spray paint their house or try to hurt them. Besides, egging is fun, or at least it was when I was a kid, so I'd get some enjoyment out of it too.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
they would just wipe it off haha on you
Yeah, sorry, I'm not a keyboard warrior. About the most I can do to them is something mildly annoying like that. Not going to slash their tires or spray paint their house or try to hurt them. Besides, egging is fun, or at least it was when I was a kid, so I'd get some enjoyment out of it too.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
It is not currently illegal in every state.
Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota explained, "Not many people realize that Minnesota doesn't have a law against price gouging, as 30 other states do. I think we should," There was a bill introduced in our House.
posted by soelo at 2:51 PM on March 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of Minnesota explained, "Not many people realize that Minnesota doesn't have a law against price gouging, as 30 other states do. I think we should," There was a bill introduced in our House.
posted by soelo at 2:51 PM on March 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
Illegal in my state, how about yours? Somebody on CL had hand sanitizer at an absurd price, so I took screenshots and sent them with the link to the local paper. It's anti-community at a time when people are quite vulnerable. A couple people I know on fb are clearly in distress.
posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
"Their Amazon storefront is currently rated at 33%. That's going to be hard to recover from."
It isn't going to affect them at all. Their Amazon storefront was a temporary side-hustle that's only a few weeks old, created with the express purpose of selling hoarded cleaning supplies to desperate people during the coronavirus pandemic. They're property developers (and possibly drug dealers) whose kids attend a $20k a year private school.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 3:47 PM on March 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
It isn't going to affect them at all. Their Amazon storefront was a temporary side-hustle that's only a few weeks old, created with the express purpose of selling hoarded cleaning supplies to desperate people during the coronavirus pandemic. They're property developers (and possibly drug dealers) whose kids attend a $20k a year private school.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 3:47 PM on March 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
One can always rely on the grifters to show up in full force at any lucrative opportunity...
posted by jim in austin at 4:19 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 4:19 PM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Getting Amazon to change requires legislation
Washington State residents on Metafilter can report instances of price gouging to the state AG here.
Hi, slightly relevant experience on that point if we're talking about selling stuff online: I'm a (mostly) self-publisher in WA, currently exclusive on Amazon. Reasons for that. Anyway, at the end of 2018, I heard noises that I might've been filing my state business & occupational taxes wrong--WA doesn't have a state income tax, but self-employed folks do pay taxes. As a self-publisher, I count. Straightening this out took much of 2019, with visits to my local Department of Revenue office, several phone calls with the DoR at the capital, and finally a lengthy application for a "binding resolution" from the Dept. of Revenue. The point person I worked with had no idea how any of this stuff worked from Amazon--how they paid out, how it's reported, wait so what about foreign currency, hold on you mean Amazon doesn't tell you what state a sale is from?
The relevant point: it seemed to me the state government doesn't really understand the whole business of indie publishing or how Amazon works, at least in terms of how it pays WA state sellers. Washington state is behind on this, and I'm betting they aren't the only one.
(PS: The Dept. of Revenue eventually told me to go back to doing what I was doing in the first place. Yay.)
It's 2020, and online sales are still a whole new animal for a lot of our governmental system.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:24 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
Washington State residents on Metafilter can report instances of price gouging to the state AG here.
Hi, slightly relevant experience on that point if we're talking about selling stuff online: I'm a (mostly) self-publisher in WA, currently exclusive on Amazon. Reasons for that. Anyway, at the end of 2018, I heard noises that I might've been filing my state business & occupational taxes wrong--WA doesn't have a state income tax, but self-employed folks do pay taxes. As a self-publisher, I count. Straightening this out took much of 2019, with visits to my local Department of Revenue office, several phone calls with the DoR at the capital, and finally a lengthy application for a "binding resolution" from the Dept. of Revenue. The point person I worked with had no idea how any of this stuff worked from Amazon--how they paid out, how it's reported, wait so what about foreign currency, hold on you mean Amazon doesn't tell you what state a sale is from?
The relevant point: it seemed to me the state government doesn't really understand the whole business of indie publishing or how Amazon works, at least in terms of how it pays WA state sellers. Washington state is behind on this, and I'm betting they aren't the only one.
(PS: The Dept. of Revenue eventually told me to go back to doing what I was doing in the first place. Yay.)
It's 2020, and online sales are still a whole new animal for a lot of our governmental system.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:24 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
it seemed to me the state government doesn't really understand the whole business of indie publishing or how Amazon works, at least in terms of how it pays WA state sellers. Washington state is behind on this, and I'm betting they aren't the only one.
Let me assure you that right now state AGs are going after price-gougers located physically within their states both online and off-.
posted by praemunire at 4:46 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Let me assure you that right now state AGs are going after price-gougers located physically within their states both online and off-.
posted by praemunire at 4:46 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
I would have *sworn* to you it was impossible for Trump to shock me with his depravity, but I was wrong. It’s nice in a way to know I still have the capacity.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:52 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:52 PM on March 16, 2020 [9 favorites]
I'm just waiting for the price gouger from the NYT story to be offered a position in the Trump Administration.
Also while social distancing in Japan, where we were a couple weeks ahead with the school closings and mild panic, I'm now seeing the similarities (TP disappearing) and differences (food disappearing). I guess part of the excessive hoarding and/or reselling is that American homes have more space than other countries, but I think the US also has more people running side hustles that are essentially reselling bargain goods, rebate items, etc. They are already conditioned to see the market demand for their normal means of income, and apparently some of them just follow that instinct without any thought to the broader moral/social side of the issue.
posted by p3t3 at 6:09 PM on March 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
Also while social distancing in Japan, where we were a couple weeks ahead with the school closings and mild panic, I'm now seeing the similarities (TP disappearing) and differences (food disappearing). I guess part of the excessive hoarding and/or reselling is that American homes have more space than other countries, but I think the US also has more people running side hustles that are essentially reselling bargain goods, rebate items, etc. They are already conditioned to see the market demand for their normal means of income, and apparently some of them just follow that instinct without any thought to the broader moral/social side of the issue.
posted by p3t3 at 6:09 PM on March 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
If you're looking for someone to punish:
SoftBank Owned Patent Troll, Using Monkey Selfie Law Firm, Sues To Block Covid-19 Testing, Using Theranos Patents
Here's someone trying to GET AN INJUNCTION (not just damages) against a company trying to create COVID testing kits.
posted by mercredi at 6:32 PM on March 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
SoftBank Owned Patent Troll, Using Monkey Selfie Law Firm, Sues To Block Covid-19 Testing, Using Theranos Patents
Here's someone trying to GET AN INJUNCTION (not just damages) against a company trying to create COVID testing kits.
posted by mercredi at 6:32 PM on March 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
I wonder what the total quantity of the product the price gougers (or wanna be price gougers) are holding onto? At least regionally, like the dude who was profiled in the Times, it must be significant.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:16 PM on March 16, 2020
posted by Dip Flash at 7:16 PM on March 16, 2020
They're property developers
Given the state of housing in Vancouver, I can see why they might have thought shameless and sketchy profiteering on basic human necessities was just the done thing around here...
Disgusting as this is, I'm seeing a LOT of grass roots community efforts here to get seniors food, check in on the vulnerable and similar. It's been heartwarming, crises really do bring out the best (and obviously worst, in some) people.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:57 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Given the state of housing in Vancouver, I can see why they might have thought shameless and sketchy profiteering on basic human necessities was just the done thing around here...
Disgusting as this is, I'm seeing a LOT of grass roots community efforts here to get seniors food, check in on the vulnerable and similar. It's been heartwarming, crises really do bring out the best (and obviously worst, in some) people.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:57 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Are we slow-walking the "Trump tries to buy company working on COVID-19 vaccine on condition that it be made available exclusively to the United States" link buried in the middle of the OP? Because fuck all the other people price gouging, but ESPECIALLY fuck that.
posted by chrominance at 8:58 PM on March 16, 2020 [22 favorites]
posted by chrominance at 8:58 PM on March 16, 2020 [22 favorites]
My morning ritual is searching craigslist for n95 masks and other ppe and flagging the posts. You all could do this, just search for n95 masks, and the like, and flag them. Then wash your hands thoroughly, and touch your face as a reward.
posted by iamabot at 10:25 PM on March 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by iamabot at 10:25 PM on March 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
These people are scum for certain--but also symptomatic.
The New York Times story mentioned that these people have been doing stuff like this right along--combing stores for discontinued but coveted items and reselling them online. In huge swaths of rural America this was one of a damn limited number of ways to make a living. When they were snapping up Star Wars figures or variants of Captain Crunch no one ever questioned the morality of what they were doing.
The whole economy is fucked up and bullshit. That is the bigger message here.
posted by LarryC at 12:09 AM on March 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
The New York Times story mentioned that these people have been doing stuff like this right along--combing stores for discontinued but coveted items and reselling them online. In huge swaths of rural America this was one of a damn limited number of ways to make a living. When they were snapping up Star Wars figures or variants of Captain Crunch no one ever questioned the morality of what they were doing.
The whole economy is fucked up and bullshit. That is the bigger message here.
posted by LarryC at 12:09 AM on March 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
every time someone here mistakes hoard for horde i envision a disappointed group of medieval mongolians on horseback reluctantly dismounting and going back inside a rural midwestern storage unit to drink some kumis, so thank you for that
posted by poffin boffin at 12:29 AM on March 17, 2020 [31 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 12:29 AM on March 17, 2020 [31 favorites]
LarryC, the difference is that Star Wars characters are collectors items that people buy for nostalgia or as investment, while hand sanitizers are literally saving people from illness or death. The stakes are just a little bit different.
posted by KGMoney at 3:46 AM on March 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by KGMoney at 3:46 AM on March 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
“ Here’s the thing. I’ve been taking this in stride. But last Sunday, when I saw that the crowds were not going down, and while I was keeping up on all the medical news and what’s going on, it hit me that, you know, I’m not in a good situation here. On Wednesday I called in and said I needed to take a leave of absence to the end of the month. So right now I’m negotiating to find a way to have an income while preemptively quarantining. Because I’m in that vulnerable group.” A grocery store clerk explains what it’s like on the front lines of coronavirus panic
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 AM on March 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 AM on March 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
When they were snapping up Star Wars figures or variants of Captain Crunch no one ever questioned the morality of what they were doing.
Because no one is going to die if they don't get a Star Wars figure.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
Because no one is going to die if they don't get a Star Wars figure.
posted by betweenthebars at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
And if they did we would demand comprehensive universal Wookiee access, free at point of service.
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on March 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on March 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Right- aside from universal health care, what has the Empire ever done for us?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:53 AM on March 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
'We Know This Script': Naomi Klein Warns of 'Coronavirus Capitalism' in New Video Detailing Battle Before Us
posted by The Whelk at 9:19 AM on March 17, 2020
posted by The Whelk at 9:19 AM on March 17, 2020
we would demand comprehensive universal Wookiee access, free at point of service.
hOw WiLL yOu PaY fOr It?
posted by rhizome at 9:49 AM on March 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
hOw WiLL yOu PaY fOr It?
posted by rhizome at 9:49 AM on March 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
i know i will regret asking this but how DID they pay for the death star
posted by poffin boffin at 11:57 AM on March 18, 2020
posted by poffin boffin at 11:57 AM on March 18, 2020
Palpatine financed the death star on his personal credit. It's explained here.
posted by ryanrs at 1:00 PM on March 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 1:00 PM on March 18, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by grumpybear69 at 12:00 PM on March 16, 2020 [3 favorites]