"No, chairs can be even worse," said Coco.

September 2, 2020 12:38 PM

A short, kind fantasy story about ghosts: "起狮，行礼 (Rising Lion — The Lion Bows)" by Zen Cho: "Gwailo have no sense. They treat the past like it's just an old movie. Like it's not serious."
posted by brainwane (14 comments total)

It's a lovely story, but I did find the use of slurs jarring. (Apparently, they've been so worn down over time as to be considered non-derogatory.)
posted by Anonymous Function at 1:23 PM on September 2, 2020 [1 favorite]

It's gwailo in the literal sense for once, but yeah I know what you mean. I've been called a gwailo a few times. Also a farang gwei (sp?) which is like "foreign devil" in Cantonese. (I dated a woman from Hong Kong in college and her dad was super racist. )
posted by w0mbat at 5:30 PM on September 2, 2020 [1 favorite]

Wait, what are the slurs? I've re-read it again, it's one of my particular favourites of Zen Cho. If you mean ang moh and gwailo, then hah, that's the equivalent of cracker, lump it. And Oritental for that room seemed intentional in the jarring mishmash of Asian cultures thrown together.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:51 PM on September 2, 2020 [4 favorites]

I should have read the story first, my bad.
You are right Anonymous Function, this is totally full of racist slurs and has a divisive racist vibe.

I wrongly assumed from the ghost context in the quote that they were using gwailo ("ghost") to refer to literal ghosts for once, rather than using it as a racist slur, which is much more common. Cantonese has variants of it to fit all races, which translate as "black ghost", etc. It's not equivalent to "cracker".
posted by w0mbat at 6:27 PM on September 2, 2020

brainwane, I'm really enjoying your sci-fi and fantasy posts. Thanks for posting.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:56 PM on September 2, 2020 [2 favorites]

It's not equivalent to "cracker".

You're right. It has even less impact than 'cracker'. In my experience of living in HK half my life, virtually no-one considers 'gwailo' a slur. Including the expats.

The word is in common usage in Cantonese. This is a story about a Malaysian-born Cantonese speaker, set in the UK, written by a Malaysian-born Cantonese speaker who lives in the UK. God forbid she accurately reflect her own language and experience, or use a term with colonial/racial overtones in a story that delves into issues of colonialism and racism.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:33 PM on September 2, 2020 [14 favorites]

reading the comments here feels like a whiplash, when in the nigel ng post (a malaysian) using yellowface minstrelsy with an overdone hk accent is just funny, and i'm the only one who's registering any issues with it, but in a post of a story by zen cho (another malaysian) using a term to describe the people who colonised us, that's a racist slur.
posted by cendawanita at 8:35 PM on September 2, 2020 [4 favorites]

I'm white, born and raised in Asia, and have been called angmoh and gwailo my whole life. There are WAY more negative terms to be used for other race minorities in Asia which have to some extent been reclaimed or phased out of use, but white privilege is so rampant even in Asia, that gwailo and angmoh are simply descriptions. The racism as a minority that is harmful to me sucks, but it's swamped by the amount of privilege I get.

The funniest line in this for me, which rang true, was about the troupe trying to be more diverse and the white student hanging out alone, a dig at the real experience of self-selecting when languages are involved.

And I note that she slid in a clever line about historical George being confused and the modern students being confused over who took care of him, his master and mistress, vs adopted by white people.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:47 PM on September 2, 2020 [8 favorites]

This was really cool, it reminded me of Rivers of London a little bit. Thanks for posting this!
posted by capnsue at 11:33 PM on September 2, 2020 [1 favorite]

I've been part of two families that referred to me as gwailo, as the resident white bloke. They weren't being rude or racist about things, but I am white and gwailo was the slang description of that. Apart from the noise about it on Mefi previously it has never even ocurred to me to be perturbed by the term.

Anyway, I haven't logged in here for over a year, but I needed some of my favourites/bookmarks. Checking out the front page and this over-earnest reaction reminds me why I haven't been here.
posted by deadwax at 3:51 AM on September 3, 2020

People who enjoyed this piece because it's about being nice to a ghost might also like "Remote Presence" by Susan Palwick: "Being a hospital exorcist was like being a vet or a pediatrician; the families were harder to deal with than the patients." (Previously.)

People who enjoyed this piece and want more Zen Cho: there's more, including both short fiction and novels! Her site helpfully includes a "Stuff you can read online for free" section, including a prequel to this very story: "七星鼓 (Seven Star Drum)".

For completeness: Her site does not yet mention her just-announced-this-week forthcoming novel Black Water Sister (May 2021) and her short story "Hikayat Sri Bujang, or, The Tale of the Naga Sage" in the new anthology The Book of Dragons which just came out a couple months ago.

I've flagged and asked the mods to take a look at this post and thread regarding the terms people have been discussing. Anonymous Function and w0mbat, I'm sorry that you got sideswiped; it sounds like opinions are mixed but in your case this post touched a sore spot and I'm sorry for that.

Thanks for the kind words, His thoughts were red thoughts!
posted by brainwane at 4:02 AM on September 3, 2020 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Just a quick followup in here to be clear: in general, terms that name white people as white don't function as slurs, because of the larger context of power relationships in which they're embedded. And it doesn't make sense to say a story has a "divisive racist vibe" when it's just describing a world like the real world that does in fact contain racism. w0mbat, this is very far from the first time we've talked to you about this kind of thing so I'm just going to close your account.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:17 AM on September 3, 2020 [9 favorites]

Also I thought this was a great story - thank you for posting it, brainwane!
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:22 AM on September 3, 2020 [2 favorites]

Yeah, my intent wasn't to derail the whole comment thread, just to say that I enjoyed the story and remark on something I learned. Sorry!
posted by Anonymous Function at 10:13 AM on September 3, 2020