Kleptogenesis

November 17, 2021 9:08 AM

Salamanders have no use for the gender binary or, honestly, speciation. (SL Popular Scientist, some popup ads) Animal reproduction continues to be wildly innovative. "The promiscuity of Ambystoma can be hard to wrap your head around if you think of species in the way most of us learn about them in school: individuals that can reproduce with one another. Hybrids like the unisexual members of Ambystoma muck that all up: they actually need to mate with multiple species in order to avoid extinction."

It's my first Metafilter post, if someone can find and link the study I would be grateful.

posted by Lawn Beaver (16 comments total)

I believe this is the study.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:17 AM on November 17, 2021 [4 favorites]

Learned something new and fascinating. Also I understand that this was a pop science article with a humorous tone, but it sure seemed judgey of these "little lady" salamanders and their "ill begotten" genomes.
posted by blankspot at 9:58 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]

While making my way through basic ornithology, one of the many surprising things I learnt is that there is no universally accepted definition what a species is. Like many other ideas that loom large and seem fundamental, the situation is significantly more complex backstage.
posted by kmkrebs at 10:01 AM on November 17, 2021 [15 favorites]

See also, Why Fish don't Exist, a book with a good radiolab episode.
posted by kaibutsu at 10:13 AM on November 17, 2021 [3 favorites]

blankspot, I agree, this was my first time looking at the Popular Science website and the tone of the article is pretty offputting. I am just so delighted about salamanders though.

Honestly, mating is just picking up sperm packets willy-nilly, reproduction is mixing and matching genes according to whim, look at my hundreds of daughters!
posted by Lawn Beaver at 10:16 AM on November 17, 2021 [6 favorites]

Didn't we do that with Neanderthals?
posted by tommasz at 10:54 AM on November 17, 2021

I love animal survival strategies as a source of creative thinking. People using echolocation, playing "possum" etc.
posted by Word_Salad at 10:55 AM on November 17, 2021

Human: My pronouns are they/them, and I am gender fluid.
Ambystoma: My pronouns are she/her and I am gender gaseous.
posted by otherchaz at 11:10 AM on November 17, 2021 [16 favorites]

Octavia Butler either knew about this, or anticipated it, in Xenogenesis. I wonder which? My guess is she found it in her biological research, which also included slime molds(pdf).
posted by joeyh at 12:16 PM on November 17, 2021 [4 favorites]

The big thing I've had to come to understand is that animals aren't doing anything at all. Life is doing things and all of us animals are just swept along. Like these salamanders didn't just say "fuck it I don't need a man" it just happened to them. In school they just let you assume everything has agency.
posted by bleep at 2:16 PM on November 17, 2021 [5 favorites]

Very interesting, but I can’t believe the author called them lizards at one point. 😡
posted by TedW at 6:17 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]

they actually need to mate with multiple species in order to avoid extinction.

Existence of the asari from Mass Effect confirmed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:18 PM on November 17, 2021

The maternal ancestor of the unisexual ambystomatids was most closely related to the streamside salamander, with the original hybridization likely occurring 2.4-3.9 million years ago (emphasis added),[2] making it the oldest known lineage of all-female vertebrates.[4]

So much for "wildly innovative" animal reproduction. Because nothing says "wild innovation" like "a multimillion year history of success."

So much about popularizations in biology is "oh look a phenomenon that does not conform to our prejudices about what the universe is like! how can this be?"
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 9:27 AM on November 18, 2021 [1 favorite]

Aardvark Cheeselog, I am not a biologist and perhaps let my giddy delight in this (mediocre, trite) piece of popular science writing overwhelm me when crafting this, my first post. I am sorry for characterizing this to me unusual reproductive strategy as innovative when in fact it is part of the routine bizzareries of life on our planet.

I will continue to be pleased about salamanders.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 10:15 AM on November 18, 2021 [2 favorites]

It's FINE, Lawn Beaver. I'm a scientist, but I put up with the crummy science journalism of the NYTs to learn about stuff outside my field. I love this! My own research is on how the haploid zoospores of fungus-like organisms sometimes merge to form an accidental diploid, then drop chromosomes to become asexual hybrids. The ingenuity of the salamanders is not lost on me!
posted by acrasis at 6:04 PM on November 18, 2021 [2 favorites]

i for one thought this was a very nice article, and i learned a ton, and am happy to have read it. I look forward to learning more about salamanders due to your influence in the future.
posted by pmv at 6:31 PM on November 19, 2021