Google Maps is pretty sure you wanted Suicide Road
December 29, 2021 2:19 PM Subscribe
The panic-inducing view at 7:50 is basically what comes to mind every time my Utah mountaineering relatives invite us all to take a "family drive" above 10K feet.
(None of them drive off-road vehicles of course, so it's like some sedans and a few family SUVs end up dangling into space at various points)
posted by circular at 2:56 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
(None of them drive off-road vehicles of course, so it's like some sedans and a few family SUVs end up dangling into space at various points)
posted by circular at 2:56 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
"American" = "stomach-clenchingly frightening". Got it. :)
Very impressive work, but all I could think of the whole time was oh HELL no.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:57 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Very impressive work, but all I could think of the whole time was oh HELL no.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:57 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Relatedly, Google Maps Directed Drivers Down Dangerous Roads During Record Lake Tahoe Snowfall [Jalopnik]
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:01 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:01 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
The panic-inducing view at 7:50
Our new ATV has a fisheye-lens camera on the front as well as the back, and that sort of thing is exactly why. I can't imagine trying a trail like that in a fullsize vehicle.
posted by traveler_ at 3:09 PM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Our new ATV has a fisheye-lens camera on the front as well as the back, and that sort of thing is exactly why. I can't imagine trying a trail like that in a fullsize vehicle.
posted by traveler_ at 3:09 PM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised they didn't recon more *before* they got onto Suicide Trail from opposite directions. I mean, they have a drone. Interested, too, that they don't have an ATV for similar situations though they did say that was one of the most extreme situations they'd been in and they're obviously intending to use their truck winches to resecure the Jeep. Could one use an ATV-mounted winch if you attached it to some ground-set spikes?
Not as relaxing as woodworking but enjoyable to watch people work. How does one obtain the cell-tower maintenance position? That seemed pretty nice
ETA: some of that is addressed. Probably shouldn't live stream my watch
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 3:33 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Not as relaxing as woodworking but enjoyable to watch people work. How does one obtain the cell-tower maintenance position? That seemed pretty nice
ETA: some of that is addressed. Probably shouldn't live stream my watch
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 3:33 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Is that yellow 4WD a Corvair?
Unsafe at any speed?
posted by MtDewd at 3:46 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
Unsafe at any speed?
posted by MtDewd at 3:46 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
It looks like there is basically no soil on that hillside to drive stakes into, just loose rock. See how easy it was to pull that first tree out?
I once got a work truck stuck so badly that the solution was to build a 9:1 advantage system with ropes and pull it out with ATVs and strong backs, but that was in the forest where we could tie into some huge maples. Of course the maples were also the problem, as the rest of the roads had all been dry, and it was only in the shade of the maples where moisture remained to make a slick, impassable muck out of their decaying leaves.
posted by agentofselection at 3:47 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I once got a work truck stuck so badly that the solution was to build a 9:1 advantage system with ropes and pull it out with ATVs and strong backs, but that was in the forest where we could tie into some huge maples. Of course the maples were also the problem, as the rest of the roads had all been dry, and it was only in the shade of the maples where moisture remained to make a slick, impassable muck out of their decaying leaves.
posted by agentofselection at 3:47 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
How does one obtain the cell-tower maintenance position? That seemed pretty nice
Yeah, until it needs maintenance in the dead of winter...
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:47 PM on December 29, 2021
Yeah, until it needs maintenance in the dead of winter...
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:47 PM on December 29, 2021
Is that yellow 4WD a Corvair?
Unsafe at any speed?
Pretty sure the suspension is not stock.
posted by agentofselection at 3:50 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
Unsafe at any speed?
Pretty sure the suspension is not stock.
posted by agentofselection at 3:50 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
That was actually really fun to watch. But you couldn't pay me enough to drive any of those trucks anywhere near that.
posted by suelac at 3:53 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by suelac at 3:53 PM on December 29, 2021
Ooooh. Scary and difficult and impressive. I worked on some recovery teams in my younger years (HMMWV sunk to the belly pan in ice and frozen in!) and this is way beyond what I would've been comfortable with.
Looking at that soil one wonders if a land anchor (pull pal, deadman spike, etc.) wouldn't have given them the uphill help they needed?
posted by introp at 4:26 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Looking at that soil one wonders if a land anchor (pull pal, deadman spike, etc.) wouldn't have given them the uphill help they needed?
posted by introp at 4:26 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Matt’s Off-road recovery is an entertaining YouTube Channel. Yes that is a Corvair wagon that they remade into a 4 wheel drive off-road vehicle. The build series on their channel is quite entertaining.
Unfortunately there is trouble ahead for Matt Wetzel, the star, as he was recently charged with insurance fraud related to some dubious tows and claims filed with AAA.
posted by interogative mood at 4:31 PM on December 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
Unfortunately there is trouble ahead for Matt Wetzel, the star, as he was recently charged with insurance fraud related to some dubious tows and claims filed with AAA.
posted by interogative mood at 4:31 PM on December 29, 2021 [14 favorites]
I've watched their videos before. I find it interesting how they choose to use older vehicles; it clearly works for them and I can see some advantages. That was a super sketchy situation and at several points could have gone south very quickly with terrible consequences. It can't be cheap to have to bring in an outfit from that far away, but still cheaper than a new Jeep.
I think I might have eaten at that same Betos once, too.
Unfortunately there is trouble ahead for Matt Wetzel, the star, as he was recently charged with insurance fraud related to some dubious tows and claims filed with AAA.
Oops! I have wondered if their channel was popular enough that the income from the tows would be secondary, but I hadn't considered the possibility of adding fraud to the mix.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:35 PM on December 29, 2021
I think I might have eaten at that same Betos once, too.
Unfortunately there is trouble ahead for Matt Wetzel, the star, as he was recently charged with insurance fraud related to some dubious tows and claims filed with AAA.
Oops! I have wondered if their channel was popular enough that the income from the tows would be secondary, but I hadn't considered the possibility of adding fraud to the mix.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:35 PM on December 29, 2021
Wow, that was crazy and intense.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:48 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by jacquilynne at 4:48 PM on December 29, 2021
I realize it lacks the aesthetic popular with a certain crowd, but as I watched this I couldn't help but think that since they're trailering the actual off-road vehicles to the recovery site anyway, doing a build of something like the MORRVAIR but in electric, so you could have real modern traction control, seems like a way to get ahead of the curve.
Scrap a Tesla, or maybe a couple of BMW i3s, for their drive and traction control (not the Bolt, though, that has awful motor control), and a whole lot of that driving would become way easier...
posted by straw at 4:54 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Scrap a Tesla, or maybe a couple of BMW i3s, for their drive and traction control (not the Bolt, though, that has awful motor control), and a whole lot of that driving would become way easier...
posted by straw at 4:54 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
How does one obtain the cell-tower maintenance position? That seemed pretty nice
Check NATE for outfits in your area, or check with the local broadcasters to see who they use for tower maintenance.
As noted above, winter call outs can suck, but they can also provide some nice views.
Never had to traverse a road as sketchy as this one, but I did manage to run a snowmobile off trail on one gig that took us four hours to extract. Not fun.
posted by calamari kid at 5:00 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
Check NATE for outfits in your area, or check with the local broadcasters to see who they use for tower maintenance.
As noted above, winter call outs can suck, but they can also provide some nice views.
Never had to traverse a road as sketchy as this one, but I did manage to run a snowmobile off trail on one gig that took us four hours to extract. Not fun.
posted by calamari kid at 5:00 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
My understanding is that the fraud charges relate to more normal towing activities and are related to activities from before the channel got big. The charges seem to relate more to the traditional tow truck part of the business.
posted by interogative mood at 5:16 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by interogative mood at 5:16 PM on December 29, 2021
It's just good policy to avoid places with things like mosquito, gator and suicide in the name.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:18 PM on December 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:18 PM on December 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
This is not about towing. This is about politics in America. Especially the one where two very old men get a flat tire fixed but then get stuck again and have to spend the night on the mountain because, the driver says, "well I just couldn't see in the dark."
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 5:47 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by RandlePatrickMcMurphy at 5:47 PM on December 29, 2021
one wonders if a land anchor (pull pal, deadman spike, etc.)
I knew that had to be a thing. Seems like that loose soil would have been pretty handy to pound a deep post or rod to attach a pull assembly
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:56 PM on December 29, 2021
I knew that had to be a thing. Seems like that loose soil would have been pretty handy to pound a deep post or rod to attach a pull assembly
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:56 PM on December 29, 2021
"You want me in it?"
"No, I don't want anybody in it."
posted by runehog at 6:01 PM on December 29, 2021
"No, I don't want anybody in it."
posted by runehog at 6:01 PM on December 29, 2021
so you could have real modern traction control
In that situation I think they are relying on lockers; I'm not sure traction control would manage but maybe like you say an electric drivetrain would help.
I do wonder if an alternate approach would have been to bring in a small dozer, like a D5 or maybe the next size down, from above and use that to pull it out. More weight, more traction, able to operate at fairly steep angles.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:03 PM on December 29, 2021
In that situation I think they are relying on lockers; I'm not sure traction control would manage but maybe like you say an electric drivetrain would help.
I do wonder if an alternate approach would have been to bring in a small dozer, like a D5 or maybe the next size down, from above and use that to pull it out. More weight, more traction, able to operate at fairly steep angles.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:03 PM on December 29, 2021
oh, i laughed when i saw that license plate - yeah, not a Corvair, it's a MORVAIR! hahaha -
this video reminded me of my childhood. in 1970, my family moved to 15 acres of undeveloped mountain property to start a survivalist camp, with the only access being a very old road that early settlers had used for wagons. similar terrain, but a somewhat lower altitude. we did it in a Jeep - and a Volkswagen squareback. these fellows need a Volkswagen!
we lived in tents while my dad worked with a local crew to cut in a more passable road. then, when bringing in the larger moving van, it got stuck at the bottom of a section that was a dry creek bed. only, it wasn't dry, because of unexpected heavy rain. it sat there for about a month, waiting for the rest of the road to dry. we unloaded as much as we could to lighten the truck, ferrying stuff with the Jeep. the tow-out took a whole day and a crew (a buncha hippies that joined us to set up camp).
it was... a memorable time. this really brought it back to mind.
posted by lapolla at 6:13 PM on December 29, 2021 [17 favorites]
this video reminded me of my childhood. in 1970, my family moved to 15 acres of undeveloped mountain property to start a survivalist camp, with the only access being a very old road that early settlers had used for wagons. similar terrain, but a somewhat lower altitude. we did it in a Jeep - and a Volkswagen squareback. these fellows need a Volkswagen!
we lived in tents while my dad worked with a local crew to cut in a more passable road. then, when bringing in the larger moving van, it got stuck at the bottom of a section that was a dry creek bed. only, it wasn't dry, because of unexpected heavy rain. it sat there for about a month, waiting for the rest of the road to dry. we unloaded as much as we could to lighten the truck, ferrying stuff with the Jeep. the tow-out took a whole day and a crew (a buncha hippies that joined us to set up camp).
it was... a memorable time. this really brought it back to mind.
posted by lapolla at 6:13 PM on December 29, 2021 [17 favorites]
ne wonders if a land anchor (pull pal, deadman spike, etc.)
... Seems like that loose soil would have been pretty handy to pound a deep post or rod to attach a pull assembly
That rocky ground is both hard to drive anything into and doesn't hold well, because there are so many rocks that driving a stake in just loosens the soil and, the further you drive it in, the looser it gets. They could have maybe used multiple short stakes as an anchor, but even that would be a nervous process. They could possibly have used a ground anchor but, again, the ground is so loose that it's hard to imagine anything getting enough grip to pull a car out by. Maybe if they could just use that as a safeguard and do most of the work with a winch on another vehicle. The biggest issue they had was pulling the Jeep back onto the track against the gravity trying to roll it down the mountain like a ball, not so much actually pulling it up the hill.
That Jeep should never have been on any of those roads with a single person on board, no recovery equipment and mis-matched and useless for the terrain tyres.
posted by dg at 6:15 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
... Seems like that loose soil would have been pretty handy to pound a deep post or rod to attach a pull assembly
That rocky ground is both hard to drive anything into and doesn't hold well, because there are so many rocks that driving a stake in just loosens the soil and, the further you drive it in, the looser it gets. They could have maybe used multiple short stakes as an anchor, but even that would be a nervous process. They could possibly have used a ground anchor but, again, the ground is so loose that it's hard to imagine anything getting enough grip to pull a car out by. Maybe if they could just use that as a safeguard and do most of the work with a winch on another vehicle. The biggest issue they had was pulling the Jeep back onto the track against the gravity trying to roll it down the mountain like a ball, not so much actually pulling it up the hill.
That Jeep should never have been on any of those roads with a single person on board, no recovery equipment and mis-matched and useless for the terrain tyres.
posted by dg at 6:15 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I witnessed a hilltop 4WD rescue where a tower installation crew got their big truck stuck, and the vehicle that came out to rescue it was a Fiat Panda 4×4. Hooking the truck's winch cable onto an attachment on the front bumper, this little car pulled the big truck out no problem.
posted by scruss at 6:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by scruss at 6:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [10 favorites]
Even WALKING across a scree-field like that feels sketchy. I can't even imagine...
posted by runehog at 6:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by runehog at 6:16 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
oh and! the part about asking permission: that rang true, too. very few "neighbors" in that area, but any that were, were armed and quite protective about their easements and road rights. permission could get... tricky.
posted by lapolla at 6:17 PM on December 29, 2021
posted by lapolla at 6:17 PM on December 29, 2021
That is old lake bed, even up high. Spanish Fork Canyon, an amazing place, where a huge utterly unanticipated, mud slide took out a major highway. It was good to see those Utah good 'ol boys!
posted by Oyéah at 6:51 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 6:51 PM on December 29, 2021 [3 favorites]
Matt's Off Road Recovery is an ongoing pleasure for me. I subscribed to to their channel a while back and watch pretty much every video.
My professional life is mostly dealing with complex problems that don't have clear goals.
Hence there's something that I find enjoyable about unwinding by watching experienced people just get on and get their job done. Each task is finite and achieved and the stuck people are grateful and then it's on to the next task.
The scenery helps too.
posted by happyinmotion at 7:07 PM on December 29, 2021 [8 favorites]
My professional life is mostly dealing with complex problems that don't have clear goals.
Hence there's something that I find enjoyable about unwinding by watching experienced people just get on and get their job done. Each task is finite and achieved and the stuck people are grateful and then it's on to the next task.
The scenery helps too.
posted by happyinmotion at 7:07 PM on December 29, 2021 [8 favorites]
This is definitely one of the more puckery recoveries they've shown. There were a couple of others that were close, but involved less danger for the recovery team, just a car/truck rather close to tipping.
There's a recent video where they were trailering an airplane off the side of a mountain where one of the people who came along rolled their razor off some shit trail and nearly ended up taking a very long and unpleasant trip down the side of a very big hill. Thankfully, there was a big rock to stop things from getting bad.
The recovery of a little Suzuki that had been stuck in the woods for 40 years was also pretty cool. It was a bit annoying when they dragged it through a river, but whatever. If we weren't polluting them so badly on a daily basis, the occasional dumb shit like that wouldn't really matter.
posted by wierdo at 7:25 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's a recent video where they were trailering an airplane off the side of a mountain where one of the people who came along rolled their razor off some shit trail and nearly ended up taking a very long and unpleasant trip down the side of a very big hill. Thankfully, there was a big rock to stop things from getting bad.
The recovery of a little Suzuki that had been stuck in the woods for 40 years was also pretty cool. It was a bit annoying when they dragged it through a river, but whatever. If we weren't polluting them so badly on a daily basis, the occasional dumb shit like that wouldn't really matter.
posted by wierdo at 7:25 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is definitely one of the more puckery recoveries they've shown.
I think they said this was a hairiest recovery they've done, over all.
It made me a little sorry I got rid of my XJ. But in reality I'm never going to be a big offroad person and I don't have room for more cars. They're sure selling now for a lot more than I got for it when I sold it, though...I had a nice one with Selec-Trac the 4.0 HO.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:34 PM on December 29, 2021
I think they said this was a hairiest recovery they've done, over all.
It made me a little sorry I got rid of my XJ. But in reality I'm never going to be a big offroad person and I don't have room for more cars. They're sure selling now for a lot more than I got for it when I sold it, though...I had a nice one with Selec-Trac the 4.0 HO.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:34 PM on December 29, 2021
This was fantastic, thank you for posting it.
A few months ago, we got truck stuck in the mud in one of our pastures. Took two more trucks, a tractor, and a ton of rope to get it out. In retrospect, our technique sucked; I learned a bunch watching these guys work.
posted by dorothy hawk at 7:51 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
A few months ago, we got truck stuck in the mud in one of our pastures. Took two more trucks, a tractor, and a ton of rope to get it out. In retrospect, our technique sucked; I learned a bunch watching these guys work.
posted by dorothy hawk at 7:51 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I live in Montana and a couple of times Google has given me directions that clearly came from scanning in forest service maps rather than from any vehicle actually driving one them. Once I ended up backing down a mountain until I could turn around, the other time, may getting stuck in ankle deep mud on the wrong side of a lake.
Now I'm much more careful if there's no street view attached to the location.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:11 PM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
Now I'm much more careful if there's no street view attached to the location.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:11 PM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]
"You want me in it?"
"No, I don't want anybody in it."
Five minutes later everyone is in it or on it.
posted by loquacious at 8:22 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
"No, I don't want anybody in it."
Five minutes later everyone is in it or on it.
posted by loquacious at 8:22 PM on December 29, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think they said this was a hairiest recovery they've done, over all.
There's also this one where a Jeep falls partway into a sinkhole. They show how far down the sinkhole goes, how much of the land nearby is ready to fall/already fallen in a similar fashion, and then midway through the video our protagonist climbs into the hole under the Jeep to dig around for awhile.
posted by ethand at 8:53 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
There's also this one where a Jeep falls partway into a sinkhole. They show how far down the sinkhole goes, how much of the land nearby is ready to fall/already fallen in a similar fashion, and then midway through the video our protagonist climbs into the hole under the Jeep to dig around for awhile.
posted by ethand at 8:53 PM on December 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
GPS helps make trouble, but the old paper maps would do it too. One day I got tired of my road trip somewhere around Eureka, CA, and decided to plot a route home on the little pocket atlas I kept in the car (this was easily 20 years ago) - no worries, after all, if a road finds its way in to a 3x5" pocket map showing the whole state of Nevada, then it must be substantial, as must any towns on that map. And by that reckoning I found myself turning on to a dirt road across the desert between Empire and Gerlach, with somewhat less gas than I'd expect to need to make it to Winnemucca. Even now in google maps, that washboard-ass dirt road isn't marked any different than nearby state and US highways.
posted by wotsac at 9:10 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 9:10 PM on December 29, 2021 [6 favorites]
How does one obtain the cell-tower maintenance position? That seemed pretty nice
Yeah, until it needs maintenance in the dead of winter...
My father fixed radios for a bit. Getting to one or two remote towers involved a helicopter ride. Access by atv was a bit more common, for those that weren’t particularly accessible by car.
posted by eviemath at 9:37 PM on December 29, 2021
Yeah, until it needs maintenance in the dead of winter...
My father fixed radios for a bit. Getting to one or two remote towers involved a helicopter ride. Access by atv was a bit more common, for those that weren’t particularly accessible by car.
posted by eviemath at 9:37 PM on December 29, 2021
OMG that one part near the end, when they had set the rope up again and had the winch going and the guys pulling —- the guys were standing immediately downhill of the taut rope. If that Jeep had fallen, it would have pulled out the anchor and the rope would have taken all the guys along with it. Yikes.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:22 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:22 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Jeep falling wasn't even close to the worst risk they were taking - if the winch rope had snapped, or the anchor pulled out suddenly, the rope would have whipped across and likely cut one or more of them in half. Worse still is, because they were using a snatch block, they were standing in the middle of two taut lines, doubling the risk. They should have, at the very least, had a dampener across the middle of the line on both sides. They clearly knew the risk, one of them describing that area as the 'triangle of death', which is exactly what it was.
posted by dg at 10:43 PM on December 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by dg at 10:43 PM on December 29, 2021 [9 favorites]
That was thrilling to watch but even I recognized the danger. My first thought: much safer to tip that red car over the side, call it a miss, and get everyone safely home -- I'm sure it was insured! Not as much fun, I guess?
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 12:51 AM on December 30, 2021
posted by alwayson_slightlyoff at 12:51 AM on December 30, 2021
Google Maps Directed Drivers Down Dangerous Roads During Record Lake Tahoe Snowfall
Clearly trying to top Alexa.
posted by flabdablet at 5:35 AM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Clearly trying to top Alexa.
posted by flabdablet at 5:35 AM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: Probably shouldn't live stream my watch
posted by DreamerFi at 7:06 AM on December 30, 2021
posted by DreamerFi at 7:06 AM on December 30, 2021
There's a recent video where they were trailering an airplane off the side of a mountain where one of the people who came along rolled their razor off some shit trail and nearly ended up taking a very long and unpleasant trip down the side of a very big hill. Thankfully, there was a big rock to stop things from getting bad.
More precisely there was one big rock perfectly placed to stop the rolling vehicle, and nothing else anywhere near it on either side, so a roll starting a couple feet uphill or downhill would have gone all the way down. It's just over 5 minutes into this video. You'll also see the driver stick his arm out to "catch" the rolling vehicle before someone yells at him to bring his arm in. He's remarkably fortunate to get through that ok.
posted by ethand at 7:41 AM on December 30, 2021
More precisely there was one big rock perfectly placed to stop the rolling vehicle, and nothing else anywhere near it on either side, so a roll starting a couple feet uphill or downhill would have gone all the way down. It's just over 5 minutes into this video. You'll also see the driver stick his arm out to "catch" the rolling vehicle before someone yells at him to bring his arm in. He's remarkably fortunate to get through that ok.
posted by ethand at 7:41 AM on December 30, 2021
Relatedly, Google Maps Directed Drivers Down Dangerous Roads During Record Lake Tahoe Snowfall
The Google software engineering making excuses on Twitter about ‘oh it’s so hard to show road conditions you just don’t understand the technical challenges involved’ that the article showed. Immediately under the social media posts of two different public agencies who posted road conditions and closure information, including a link to a state road conditions map.
Relatedly, on the question of how could Google know what type of road is what for more remote areas that they haven’t sent mapping cars down: (a) USGS maps indicate road size and surface. The equivalent maps produced by a branch of the Canadian government aren’t quite as detailed, but at least distinguish between paved roads, in paved roads, and trails. But from what Google maps has shown me at times, it looks like they use planning maps showing road allowances instead (regardless of whether or not a road is actually there), or some other data source that lacks this level of detail? That seems like a major gap in their data collection standards, given how easily and freely info on at least road surface type is available. (b) They have fairly detailed satellite images to cross-check their road data with! Even an atv trail sized woods road around where I live leaves some visible traces in satellite images. If you can’t see any sign whatsoever that a road exists in a certain route, maybe at least give a warning to drivers that the data may be incomplete? Satellite imagery can also give you information about the grade of a road or trail, such as the one in the main link for this post. Or, for the desert region involved, satellite imagery would certainly have allowed Google’s computers to determine the narrowness of the trail, which should have led them to display it as a trail rather than as a road.
But really, a little “our mapping cars haven’t verified this data” note would be incredibly simple and the least they could do.
(And also, there’s no reason the cell phone repair guy should have to rely on Google Maps rather than having detailed access instructions for the tower provided by his employer. Especially when the correct access road had a scarily-worded no trespassing sign and a gate that required knocking at somebody’s house to get the key. This is definitely not solely a Google Maps issue.)
posted by eviemath at 7:49 AM on December 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
The Google software engineering making excuses on Twitter about ‘oh it’s so hard to show road conditions you just don’t understand the technical challenges involved’ that the article showed. Immediately under the social media posts of two different public agencies who posted road conditions and closure information, including a link to a state road conditions map.
Relatedly, on the question of how could Google know what type of road is what for more remote areas that they haven’t sent mapping cars down: (a) USGS maps indicate road size and surface. The equivalent maps produced by a branch of the Canadian government aren’t quite as detailed, but at least distinguish between paved roads, in paved roads, and trails. But from what Google maps has shown me at times, it looks like they use planning maps showing road allowances instead (regardless of whether or not a road is actually there), or some other data source that lacks this level of detail? That seems like a major gap in their data collection standards, given how easily and freely info on at least road surface type is available. (b) They have fairly detailed satellite images to cross-check their road data with! Even an atv trail sized woods road around where I live leaves some visible traces in satellite images. If you can’t see any sign whatsoever that a road exists in a certain route, maybe at least give a warning to drivers that the data may be incomplete? Satellite imagery can also give you information about the grade of a road or trail, such as the one in the main link for this post. Or, for the desert region involved, satellite imagery would certainly have allowed Google’s computers to determine the narrowness of the trail, which should have led them to display it as a trail rather than as a road.
But really, a little “our mapping cars haven’t verified this data” note would be incredibly simple and the least they could do.
(And also, there’s no reason the cell phone repair guy should have to rely on Google Maps rather than having detailed access instructions for the tower provided by his employer. Especially when the correct access road had a scarily-worded no trespassing sign and a gate that required knocking at somebody’s house to get the key. This is definitely not solely a Google Maps issue.)
posted by eviemath at 7:49 AM on December 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
And by that reckoning I found myself turning on to a dirt road across the desert between Empire and Gerlach, with somewhat less gas than I'd expect to need to make it to Winnemucca. Even now in google maps, that washboard-ass dirt road isn't marked any different than nearby state and US highways.
A few years ago in the winter, I was on the freeway not all that far west of there. The highway got shut down by truck accidents in a snowstorm, but Google said there was an alternate route. It started off fine on paved county roads, but then went to unpaved, then smaller. Finally I ended up on a two-track ranch road, in deepening snow, heading north into the hills. Luckily I had 4wd and high clearance so I didn't get stuck there, but I had to back out for a couple of miles before I was able to find a turnaround. Had I kept going, I might have been found in the spring, frozen into a mummy like Otzi.
Google shows it as an open route, though even in the summer I think you wouldn't want to take a passenger car on that road.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:38 AM on December 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
A few years ago in the winter, I was on the freeway not all that far west of there. The highway got shut down by truck accidents in a snowstorm, but Google said there was an alternate route. It started off fine on paved county roads, but then went to unpaved, then smaller. Finally I ended up on a two-track ranch road, in deepening snow, heading north into the hills. Luckily I had 4wd and high clearance so I didn't get stuck there, but I had to back out for a couple of miles before I was able to find a turnaround. Had I kept going, I might have been found in the spring, frozen into a mummy like Otzi.
Google shows it as an open route, though even in the summer I think you wouldn't want to take a passenger car on that road.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:38 AM on December 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
And also, there’s no reason the cell phone repair guy should have to rely on Google Maps rather than having detailed access instructions for the tower provided by his employer.
That's as much, if not more so, on the carrier as the employer. Sometimes all you get are GPS coordinates.
posted by calamari kid at 8:44 AM on December 30, 2021
That's as much, if not more so, on the carrier as the employer. Sometimes all you get are GPS coordinates.
posted by calamari kid at 8:44 AM on December 30, 2021
I was a software engineer for a cell tower management/ownership company and we definitely did have a way to store and share specific access info for every tower. Access road info, landlord notes etc. Gates to tower enclosures also have lock info for both the owner and each carrier (not the same usually).
Really liked this, especially the guy holding up his cup and shouting “horchata”!
posted by freecellwizard at 9:15 AM on December 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
Really liked this, especially the guy holding up his cup and shouting “horchata”!
posted by freecellwizard at 9:15 AM on December 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
Some are definitely better than others in my experience, VZW, AT&T, Crown Castle, always provided good information. We did a job for Clearwire back in the day where all we received was a spreadsheet of coordinates.
posted by calamari kid at 11:43 AM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by calamari kid at 11:43 AM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Everything turned out ok, and now I can laugh at my brother a bit.
The google map and GPS show a nice shortcut called "Channell Road" from the north on the way to beautiful Mill Creek Falls in Kumbrabow state forest, WV. Looking at the satellite view, I saw nothing but steep, wooded hillsides. I gave the very helpful local ranger a call, and he verified those steep wooded mountains. I duly notified my brother, who was meeting us there the next day. Nope, he had to try it his way. Well, it took them a lot longer, but they did see a bear. Maybe that was worth it.
posted by TreeRooster at 12:50 PM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
The google map and GPS show a nice shortcut called "Channell Road" from the north on the way to beautiful Mill Creek Falls in Kumbrabow state forest, WV. Looking at the satellite view, I saw nothing but steep, wooded hillsides. I gave the very helpful local ranger a call, and he verified those steep wooded mountains. I duly notified my brother, who was meeting us there the next day. Nope, he had to try it his way. Well, it took them a lot longer, but they did see a bear. Maybe that was worth it.
posted by TreeRooster at 12:50 PM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Was camping in the Mojave near Kelso with a buddy and we took a road that looked sensible on the map (pre smart-phone) but ended up being the maintenance road for the high tension power lines. When it got too hairy we had to cross fingers and push on because the prospect of backing up was too terrifying. It was almost as bad as the video here, but the Jeep (Wrangler) fortunately proved up to the task. No idea what we would have done had we gotten stuck (hike back down I guess?) because there was no cell service at all. Good times.
posted by sjswitzer at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hence there's something that I find enjoyable about unwinding by watching experienced people just get on and get their job done. Each task is finite and achieved and the stuck people are grateful and then it's on to the next task.
If you like that, you're going to love watching this guy service and rebuild watches on his Wristwatch Revival YouTube channel.
posted by mikelieman at 3:17 PM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you like that, you're going to love watching this guy service and rebuild watches on his Wristwatch Revival YouTube channel.
posted by mikelieman at 3:17 PM on December 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by bluesky43 at 2:52 PM on December 29, 2021 [2 favorites]