"...always have an asterisk attached."
February 1, 2022 10:29 AM Subscribe
The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) reports: "Georgetown University Law Center faces a barrage of criticism for its suspension of Ilya Shapiro over now-deleted tweets criticizing President Biden’s promise to nominate a black woman to replace Justice Stephen Breyer on the Supreme Court."
OP Note: I haven't deeply investigated FIRE, this link is the first I'm hearing about the case. If this turns out to be a "milkshake duck" situation, I don't want that this post should become about FIRE rather than about Shapiro, Georgetown and the discussion about expression.
OP Note: I haven't deeply investigated FIRE, this link is the first I'm hearing about the case. If this turns out to be a "milkshake duck" situation, I don't want that this post should become about FIRE rather than about Shapiro, Georgetown and the discussion about expression.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Single link post to a questionable right wing site. -- loup
is there a smarter timeline I can join??
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:42 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:42 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Yeah, just FYI, FIRE are bad guys.)
posted by praemunire at 10:42 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:42 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Ilya Shapiro tweeted: “Objectively best pick for Biden is Sri Srinivasan, who is solid prog & v smart. Even has identity politics benefit of being first Asian (Indian) American. But alas doesn’t fit into latest intersectionality hierarchy so we’ll get lesser Black woman. Thank heaven for small favors?” (emphasis added)
Shapiro was a new hire and was placed on leave before his Feb. 1 start date.
William M. Treanor, the dean of Georgetown Law said, “Ilya Shapiro’s tweets are antithetical to the work that we do here every day to build inclusion, belonging and respect for diversity. Racial stereotypes about individual capabilities and qualifications remain a pernicious force in our society and our profession.”
posted by MrJM at 10:43 AM on February 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Shapiro was a new hire and was placed on leave before his Feb. 1 start date.
William M. Treanor, the dean of Georgetown Law said, “Ilya Shapiro’s tweets are antithetical to the work that we do here every day to build inclusion, belonging and respect for diversity. Racial stereotypes about individual capabilities and qualifications remain a pernicious force in our society and our profession.”
posted by MrJM at 10:43 AM on February 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's not really possibly to separate FIRE and this kind of situation. FIRE was founded in opposition to folks trying to combat racism, sexism, etc on college campuses. They're pretty suspect. They are ideologically consistent enough to have helped faculty and students who have been the victim of some stupid stuff, but their bread and butter is protecting racist and sexually harassing speech.
posted by feckless at 10:45 AM on February 1, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by feckless at 10:45 AM on February 1, 2022 [14 favorites]
If youre just typing your thoughts out for the world to see and your thought is "it's not possible for any given black woman to be as good as (some guy)" there's no way to excuse this or walk it back.
posted by bleep at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by bleep at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
now-deleted tweets criticizing President Biden’s promise to nominate a black woman to replace Justice Stephen Breyer on the Supreme Court.
Clarity on these tweets: he said that any black woman candidate would be "lesser" than the "objectively best" pick Sri Srivanasan.
He also said at the time that Obama's selection of Sonia Sotomayor showed that "identity politics matter to him more than merit."
It's a real coincidence how these underqualified candidates for SCT nomination are all women of color! Truly a puzzlement!
The free speech issue here is important, and complex, but I do think it's important not to gloss over what the dude actually said.
posted by praemunire at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
Clarity on these tweets: he said that any black woman candidate would be "lesser" than the "objectively best" pick Sri Srivanasan.
He also said at the time that Obama's selection of Sonia Sotomayor showed that "identity politics matter to him more than merit."
It's a real coincidence how these underqualified candidates for SCT nomination are all women of color! Truly a puzzlement!
The free speech issue here is important, and complex, but I do think it's important not to gloss over what the dude actually said.
posted by praemunire at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
On the meta bit about FIRE, they seem incapable of differentiating between bad faith actors abusing a college/university system and actual abuses of free expression. The most recent example that I'm probably half remembering was some college denying a "free speech" club official club status.
Was this because they're against free speech? The breathless FIRE tweet suggested as such. Was it because the college referenced that the individual in question could accomplish this via existing debate clubs or a Federalist Society campus group but neither of those would allow the student in question to rub in everyone's faces that the rights of others were a debate item? Well I'm not psychic.
Part of the larger problem with the scene around FIRE to me is that there's no daylight to them between any pushback on any speech and the advent of some grim totalitarian future. The common refrain is along the lines of "But what if someone else you don't like gets to use that stick, huh??"
Which, having lived through seeing lefty protests getting beaten/gassed/illegally detained and nazis/klan getting police escorts I'd say we've been at that point and the selective blindness from the 1A absolutists is not a good look at best. The other side of this is that countries in the EU do this better than we do, but aren't perfect, have their drawbacks, but also haven't fallen into totalitarianism. If anything, they're doing waaaaaay better from the perspective of being functional political and debate climates.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
Was this because they're against free speech? The breathless FIRE tweet suggested as such. Was it because the college referenced that the individual in question could accomplish this via existing debate clubs or a Federalist Society campus group but neither of those would allow the student in question to rub in everyone's faces that the rights of others were a debate item? Well I'm not psychic.
Part of the larger problem with the scene around FIRE to me is that there's no daylight to them between any pushback on any speech and the advent of some grim totalitarian future. The common refrain is along the lines of "But what if someone else you don't like gets to use that stick, huh??"
Which, having lived through seeing lefty protests getting beaten/gassed/illegally detained and nazis/klan getting police escorts I'd say we've been at that point and the selective blindness from the 1A absolutists is not a good look at best. The other side of this is that countries in the EU do this better than we do, but aren't perfect, have their drawbacks, but also haven't fallen into totalitarianism. If anything, they're doing waaaaaay better from the perspective of being functional political and debate climates.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
"Today, on what was to be Shapiro’s first formal day on the job..."
So -- he said this in a probation period?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:54 AM on February 1, 2022
So -- he said this in a probation period?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:54 AM on February 1, 2022
Agreed that GULC's big mistake was in bringing Shapiro on to begin with. His tweets are, of course, part of a much broader conservative strategy to pre-discredit any Biden nominee on the basis of "no black woman is qualified!" which is patently untrue and obviously obscenely racist. It's sexist, too, but making the racism the center of the conversation is the big win for conservatives here. They can turn around and graciously confirm whomever Biden's nominee turns out to be, as long as they first successfully move the goalposts on this conversation. Couching it as "no my real issue is that they won't nominate Srinavasan!" is equivocation of the highest order. The point was to get the phrase "lesser black woman" out there.
And so Treanor* gets stuck with either having to let Shapiro start up today, or else let him go and face the fallout, and he made the braver choice, but that's gonna suck for him for a little while. But the morals of this are simple: faculty positions are positions of power over students, and you have to be careful not to put students in precarious positions there.
*Full disclosure: I've had a lot of respect for Treanor since my time at GULC a dozen years ago. Before then, even, as he was previously at Fordham Law where he was beloved by friends of mine there.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
And so Treanor* gets stuck with either having to let Shapiro start up today, or else let him go and face the fallout, and he made the braver choice, but that's gonna suck for him for a little while. But the morals of this are simple: faculty positions are positions of power over students, and you have to be careful not to put students in precarious positions there.
*Full disclosure: I've had a lot of respect for Treanor since my time at GULC a dozen years ago. Before then, even, as he was previously at Fordham Law where he was beloved by friends of mine there.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
metafilter: making the conversation about the thing I specifically requested for it not to be about.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
Shapiro was explicitly not hired as a tenured professor, with a mandate to freely share his thoughts on race, gender, and the law. He was hired as an administrator of a center on constitutional law, with a mandate to help run that center so as to improve Georgetown's reputation. His comments have clearly done nothing to achieve that objective, and so re-evaluating his employment seems more than fair.
posted by rishabguha at 10:58 AM on February 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by rishabguha at 10:58 AM on February 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
Sorry, yeah, on the actual subject: The Georgetown standard is untrammeled expression. Shapiro has an opinion, that I'd argue is pretty significantly trammeled by bias and racism. It didn't have to be but they chose that framing instead of expression based on anything that can be reasoned with or argued.
"Candidate X is the best and artificially constraining things isn't the way forward" is what would have worked for me. "Lesser black women" isn't just a bad choice of words, especially for someone whose profession is communication of ideas.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:05 AM on February 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Candidate X is the best and artificially constraining things isn't the way forward" is what would have worked for me. "Lesser black women" isn't just a bad choice of words, especially for someone whose profession is communication of ideas.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:05 AM on February 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah, he really stuck his foot in it with "lesser black woman."
If he had stuck to "Biden should not the prioritize race and sex of the candidate above their resume", he would have made the same point. He would have avoided giving his detractors a rhetorical kill-shot to attack his candidacy.
posted by theorique at 11:16 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
If he had stuck to "Biden should not the prioritize race and sex of the candidate above their resume", he would have made the same point. He would have avoided giving his detractors a rhetorical kill-shot to attack his candidacy.
posted by theorique at 11:16 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
As a general rule, any group with the words "freedom" or "rights" in their name, who advocate for these rights in universities, are right-wing blowhards who want their right-wing brethren in academia to be able to say whatever dumbass racist shit they want without facing any consequences for it. They can all fuck off into the sun.
posted by Mayor West at 11:17 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 11:17 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
Objectively best pick....
"Objectively" is so often a tell that something stupid is about to follow. And it's otiose; it adds nothing to saying "the best pick".
posted by thelonius at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
"Objectively" is so often a tell that something stupid is about to follow. And it's otiose; it adds nothing to saying "the best pick".
posted by thelonius at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
The right has taken the hardline stance, in every level of government & institution that receives federal funding on the right to lie, right to kill, right to infect others, right to overthow the government, right to impregnate, right to be a racist, right to be an asshole. Do we see the end result to this yet?
posted by zerobyproxy at 11:23 AM on February 1, 2022
posted by zerobyproxy at 11:23 AM on February 1, 2022
> I'm not averse to other coverage of the topic being posted in comments, as an alternative to making the conversation about the thing I specifically requested for it not to be about.
I'm not aware of any special permission FPP posters are given to dictate the terms of a discussion. Considering you chose a single source when many more sources are avaliable, your attempts to steer people away from assessing the credibility of that source seem... odd.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:25 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm not aware of any special permission FPP posters are given to dictate the terms of a discussion. Considering you chose a single source when many more sources are avaliable, your attempts to steer people away from assessing the credibility of that source seem... odd.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:25 AM on February 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) reports: "Georgetown University Law Center faces a barrage of criticism for its suspension of Ilya Shapiro over now-deleted tweets criticizing President Biden’s promise to nominate a black woman to replace Justice Stephen Breyer on the Supreme Court."
There's the deception, folks. Shapiro tweeted that any black woman Biden nominated would inherently be an inferior choice. The fact that FIRE frames "makes an overtly racist statement" as "criticizes" tells you all you need to know about their bad faith here. (That the "barrage of criticism" is from the usual anti-anti-racist suspects is, of course, just bonus dishonesty.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:33 AM on February 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
There's the deception, folks. Shapiro tweeted that any black woman Biden nominated would inherently be an inferior choice. The fact that FIRE frames "makes an overtly racist statement" as "criticizes" tells you all you need to know about their bad faith here. (That the "barrage of criticism" is from the usual anti-anti-racist suspects is, of course, just bonus dishonesty.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:33 AM on February 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
tonyscpu: Thanks for posting other sources. No thanks at all for the aspersions cast.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:39 AM on February 1, 2022
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:39 AM on February 1, 2022
Again: "Objectively best pick for Biden is Sri Srinivasan, who is solid prog & v smart. Even has identity politics benefit of being first Asian (Indian) American. But alas doesn’t fit into latest intersectionality hierarchy so we’ll get lesser Black woman.”
I read that as saying, "Sri Srivivasan is the best candidate. President Biden has pledged to select a black woman. Because the best candidate is not a black woman, the selected candidate is not the best candidate."
Clearly there's a lot of history and context here, and there's nothing purely "objective" about selecting a Supreme Court Justice. But "The best candidate is not being chosen because of the requirement that the candidate be of a certain race and gender" is quite different than "People of a certain race and gender are not qualified to be justices."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:40 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
I read that as saying, "Sri Srivivasan is the best candidate. President Biden has pledged to select a black woman. Because the best candidate is not a black woman, the selected candidate is not the best candidate."
Clearly there's a lot of history and context here, and there's nothing purely "objective" about selecting a Supreme Court Justice. But "The best candidate is not being chosen because of the requirement that the candidate be of a certain race and gender" is quite different than "People of a certain race and gender are not qualified to be justices."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 11:40 AM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
If memory serves me correctly, the blog Lawyers Guns & Money pointed out that Srinivasan is also a less progressive candidate than some of those perceived to be on Biden's short list, so "Biden could make history by nominating an Indian-American and not to do so is racist and inferior!" is actually a stalking horse for "as a conservatives, I'd prefer Biden nominate a more conservative candidate."
posted by Gelatin at 11:45 AM on February 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 11:45 AM on February 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
> Clearly there's a lot of history and context here, and there's nothing purely "objective" about selecting a Supreme Court Justice. But "The best candidate is not being chosen because of the requirement that the candidate be of a certain race and gender" is quite different than "People of a certain race and gender are not qualified to be justices."
Yeah, it just so happens that Srinivasan is the most conservative of all plausible selections.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Yeah, it just so happens that Srinivasan is the most conservative of all plausible selections.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:46 AM on February 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Clearly there's a lot of history and context here, and there's nothing purely "objective" about selecting a Supreme Court Justice. But "The best candidate is not being chosen because of the requirement that the candidate be of a certain race and gender" is quite different than "People of a certain race and gender are not qualified to be justices."
Oh please, not only did he pull this same shit with Sonia Sotomayor, he's also a regular contributor to the Federalist (where he rather infamously stated that Clinton never be allowed to appoint judges if she was elected). There's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Oh please, not only did he pull this same shit with Sonia Sotomayor, he's also a regular contributor to the Federalist (where he rather infamously stated that Clinton never be allowed to appoint judges if she was elected). There's no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt here.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Why would he say that this guy is the best-qualified person in the entire world for the job? Isn’t that a ridiculously bold statement? Like, I can see “here’s someone who would be a great candidate,” but saying they’re better than ANYONE just seems asinine.
posted by Slinga at 12:03 PM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 12:03 PM on February 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, he really stuck his foot in it with "lesser black woman."
If he had stuck to "Biden should not the prioritize race and sex of the candidate above their resume", he would have made the same point.
And why didn't he? Because, it would appear, he's a massive turd.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:05 PM on February 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
If he had stuck to "Biden should not the prioritize race and sex of the candidate above their resume", he would have made the same point.
And why didn't he? Because, it would appear, he's a massive turd.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:05 PM on February 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
The idea that this One Guy is the Objectively Best Pick and any black woman must be "lesser," just because of Objective Merit, for this incredibly complicated and demanding job which affects society along multiple axes...do people believe in fairy tales, too?
Realistically, there is a top tier of very highly qualified candidates, which you can define as you like but is clearly more than one, then a bunch of defensible picks, then a bunch of people who would be surprise choices but could probably do at least as good a job as anyone presently on the Court, even if you set that standard to exclude those who have committed sexual assault or harassment. I will not argue with people wanting to include Srinivasan in the top tier, but come on.
posted by praemunire at 12:05 PM on February 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Realistically, there is a top tier of very highly qualified candidates, which you can define as you like but is clearly more than one, then a bunch of defensible picks, then a bunch of people who would be surprise choices but could probably do at least as good a job as anyone presently on the Court, even if you set that standard to exclude those who have committed sexual assault or harassment. I will not argue with people wanting to include Srinivasan in the top tier, but come on.
posted by praemunire at 12:05 PM on February 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
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posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 10:33 AM on February 1, 2022 [3 favorites]