What does a pregnancy actually look like before 10 weeks?
October 20, 2022 6:39 AM Subscribe
"These images, supplied to us by the MYA Network... show what tissue in the first nine weeks of pregnancy actually looks like."
Agreed! These images are so helpful for dispelling the pro-life message I got not just from our general culture but also from attending Roman Catholic school kindergarten through high school. I don't think we'll have an easy time getting these accurately depicted in public or private school curriculum, unfortunately.
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by carrioncomfort at 7:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
There is variability in how that 9 week tissue will appear.
posted by Acari at 7:37 AM on October 20, 2022
posted by Acari at 7:37 AM on October 20, 2022
I'm definitely would not be the person I was if we hadn't had the Time Life books on health in my house as I was growing up. I read them cover to cover so many times the binding ripped out. Anyway, there were then-groundbreaking photos in there of embryonic development that cemented this for me forty years ago. I'm not even sure anything like those books is available any more. Websites sure aren't it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
These pictures are also post evacuation of the uterus. If you were to focus in solely on the embryo and do proper lighting etc, you could get something more like the traditional picture seen on the prenatal websites such as https://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images-index.php
posted by beaning at 7:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by beaning at 7:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile this with my own ultrasounds. At 6 weeks gestation (4 weeks post-conception) my embryos were 7mm (normal) and 5mm (too small). Both had "heartbeats", which i know is a misnomer because there is no heart. I was told that there is very little variability in normal embryo size in the early weeks of pregnancy and that anything deviating from the normal sizes at that stage is indicative of a problem.
So when I look at the 6 week pregnancy, I assume that's the gestational sac with the yolk not just the embryo? I would love to see them open the sac and show the embryo. 7 mm is definitely big enough to see with the naked eye and even though it wouldn't look baby like it would be interesting to see with a some mild magnification. Just because I really want to see what it looks like, not for any abortion-related-messaging reasons.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:50 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
So when I look at the 6 week pregnancy, I assume that's the gestational sac with the yolk not just the embryo? I would love to see them open the sac and show the embryo. 7 mm is definitely big enough to see with the naked eye and even though it wouldn't look baby like it would be interesting to see with a some mild magnification. Just because I really want to see what it looks like, not for any abortion-related-messaging reasons.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:50 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
I kind of want to crowd source putting these pictures up on billboards across the country to counter all those anti-abortion signs. It's such a startlingly clear image that I suspect it could help sway public opinion even further.
posted by Eddie Mars at 8:07 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by Eddie Mars at 8:07 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
I'm also trying to understand the striking differences between these and the images on the link beaning posted. The images at the latter appear to show clear human-embryo-shaped figures at 7 weeks -- although I wonder if the 3D renderings to compare the size of the embryo to the human hand give the false impression of more physical solidity than is actually the case, as I would imagine the embryo is at that point is still fairly tenuous as a physical structure, more gelatinous (apologies) than solid. What are the reasons for the differences? Is it level of magnification? Have the nascent embryos lost whatever solidity they had in the uterus and sort of dissolved (apologies again)?
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
This is very interesting material, but I personally do not care what the products of conception look like or how humanlike they are, if the person bearing those products does not want to be pregnant, they should not have to be.
If people thought that the existence of distinguishable limbs marked the point at which abortion should not be considered, they would be open to denying abortion earlier than even some of the current 15 week abortion bans. It is not a good benchmark.
posted by sibboleth at 10:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [49 favorites]
If people thought that the existence of distinguishable limbs marked the point at which abortion should not be considered, they would be open to denying abortion earlier than even some of the current 15 week abortion bans. It is not a good benchmark.
posted by sibboleth at 10:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [49 favorites]
I think the website beaning posted is dating from fertilization, not from last menstruation. So there is approximately two week difference. The 7-1/2 week fetus on the front page of EHD gallery would be 9-1/2 weeks by gestational age.
They don't put the disclaimer on every image but when you click around they put it on most of them.
posted by muddgirl at 10:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
They don't put the disclaimer on every image but when you click around they put it on most of them.
posted by muddgirl at 10:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wish I had seen this when I had a medication abortion at 7 weeks. I was not in a mental state to ask questions at Planned Parenthood about what, exactly, was going to happen when I took the misoprostol (2nd pill that induces cramping). The standard descriptor of really heavy period was useful, but just seeing the decidua and the look of the material would have been helpful. I feel like most of us can't help but absorb on some level the images that are shown by anti-choice activists of tiny, tiny fully-formed fetal babies. It can be a mindfuck when you're sitting on the toilet at home having an abortion or miscarriage, not knowing what decidua is, and the mental images you have are all of anti-abortion propaganda.
posted by lizard music at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [36 favorites]
posted by lizard music at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [36 favorites]
Good progress.
Now do "heart" for "hearbeat" laws.
posted by Dashy at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Now do "heart" for "hearbeat" laws.
posted by Dashy at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is good information. My pro-abortion-ness doesn’t really need reinforcing, but these pictures really do reinforce my vehemence.
I’m glad they pointed out that a person IS NOT ACTUALLY PREGNANT for the first two weeks of “gestation” as we measure it. I think that’s something a big portion of the population does not understand at all.
posted by obfuscation at 3:59 PM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
I’m glad they pointed out that a person IS NOT ACTUALLY PREGNANT for the first two weeks of “gestation” as we measure it. I think that’s something a big portion of the population does not understand at all.
posted by obfuscation at 3:59 PM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
I’m glad they pointed out that a person IS NOT ACTUALLY PREGNANT for the first two weeks of “gestation” as we measure it. I think that’s something a big portion of the population does not understand at all.
I referred to myself during the two weeks between Day 1 and ovulation as having "Schrodinger's Uterus". Simultaneously pregnant and not pregnant until it was time to test, 4 weeks later. I also consoled myself on Day 1 (after failed attempts to conceive) that "I might already be 1 day pregnant!"
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:17 PM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
I referred to myself during the two weeks between Day 1 and ovulation as having "Schrodinger's Uterus". Simultaneously pregnant and not pregnant until it was time to test, 4 weeks later. I also consoled myself on Day 1 (after failed attempts to conceive) that "I might already be 1 day pregnant!"
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:17 PM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
It is infuriating that the rights of actual, fully-formed human people are being infringed in favor of something that looks like a wad of snot.
posted by Lycaste at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Lycaste at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
I had a medical abortion at 13 weeks, but it was a missed miscarriage and they told me the development had stopped after 7 weeks (dated from time of last period, not gestational time).
Like others have mentioned, you could see a clear human shape... Not super developed, but there was a head and a torso etc. It was kidney bean shaped.
I think the pictures on this guardian article are misleading because they're post evac, or maybe the ultrasound pictures are misleading because they're shaded a certain way to make the fetus more visible....
The big misconception, I think, is around the 20 week scan. That one looks like an alien or a skeleton, not a human baby. It's got all the parts but not filled in yet.
posted by subdee at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Like others have mentioned, you could see a clear human shape... Not super developed, but there was a head and a torso etc. It was kidney bean shaped.
I think the pictures on this guardian article are misleading because they're post evac, or maybe the ultrasound pictures are misleading because they're shaded a certain way to make the fetus more visible....
The big misconception, I think, is around the 20 week scan. That one looks like an alien or a skeleton, not a human baby. It's got all the parts but not filled in yet.
posted by subdee at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
And it doesn't matter what it looks like. Anti-abortion people will see fuckin' Jesus in it or something. These photos will not make one bit of difference to the people who believe it's a human being with a soul.
posted by tzikeh at 6:35 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 6:35 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've been trying to have my second kid for a year and a half, and had 3 miscarriages before 7 weeks in that time.
One of the posters in a similar boat posted on another community that what's missing is all the blood.
And I wish there was a way to talk like adults, in a way that makes space both for people whose lives are made worse by the presence of that glob of cells and those of us who very much wanted them, but instead got the blood supply for a whole week of performances of MacBeth on the floor of the shower.
And I know that the fact that we don't is overwhelmingly the fault of the people who are cheering policies that mean I have to research the nearest ER over state lines for my upcoming trip to visit my parents, in case my next miscarriage requires intervention.
As a society that knows fuckall about the science of reproduction and women's bodies, we're also remarkably bad at the humanity of reproduction and pregnant people.
posted by DebetEsse at 6:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
One of the posters in a similar boat posted on another community that what's missing is all the blood.
And I wish there was a way to talk like adults, in a way that makes space both for people whose lives are made worse by the presence of that glob of cells and those of us who very much wanted them, but instead got the blood supply for a whole week of performances of MacBeth on the floor of the shower.
And I know that the fact that we don't is overwhelmingly the fault of the people who are cheering policies that mean I have to research the nearest ER over state lines for my upcoming trip to visit my parents, in case my next miscarriage requires intervention.
As a society that knows fuckall about the science of reproduction and women's bodies, we're also remarkably bad at the humanity of reproduction and pregnant people.
posted by DebetEsse at 6:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
Just a quick jump in to apologize for the confusion about the website I posted earlier. I'm on mobile today just grabbed the first one I found. I do agree that site is from post-conception given that the very first images are of the fertilized egg and dated day 0, and that obviously would not be the situation at day zero of LMP. The difference between use of LMP and conception has been a tool in the abortion fight with many people thinking the laws are 6 weeks after conception/8 wks LMP, not 4 wks post conception/6 wks LMP... And not to mention the impact of varying menstrual cycle lengths.
Not sure what is meant by the comment about the 20 wk fetus having all parts but not being filled in. Sonogram and other fetal imaging are based of reflective imagery and are impacted by many fetal and maternal and technical equipment factors beyond my expertise. But a typical fetus delivered at 20 wks has all needed organs. The major fetal change in the third trimester is growth and maturation, not organ development per se.
And as mentioned earlier, the real issue is still the right of a woman to bodily autonomy, not anything else.
posted by beaning at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Not sure what is meant by the comment about the 20 wk fetus having all parts but not being filled in. Sonogram and other fetal imaging are based of reflective imagery and are impacted by many fetal and maternal and technical equipment factors beyond my expertise. But a typical fetus delivered at 20 wks has all needed organs. The major fetal change in the third trimester is growth and maturation, not organ development per se.
And as mentioned earlier, the real issue is still the right of a woman to bodily autonomy, not anything else.
posted by beaning at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Excellent!
This is a blindspot for me as a biologist, but it's like women who have never explored their own vaginas (many other examples) to know what they look like and what the different parts are.
Biology is gross (fascinating) before it becomes (remotely) "cute."
posted by porpoise at 8:44 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is a blindspot for me as a biologist, but it's like women who have never explored their own vaginas (many other examples) to know what they look like and what the different parts are.
Biology is gross (fascinating) before it becomes (remotely) "cute."
posted by porpoise at 8:44 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
women who have never explored their own vaginas
porpoise that was a fantastic video. Can we put a screen over the sink in the ladies' lounge that just plays that on a loop? Inside the stalls would be no cameras, just the audio. And then a hand mirror in a plastic bag drops down from the ceiling.
posted by bendy at 9:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
porpoise that was a fantastic video. Can we put a screen over the sink in the ladies' lounge that just plays that on a loop? Inside the stalls would be no cameras, just the audio. And then a hand mirror in a plastic bag drops down from the ceiling.
posted by bendy at 9:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
abortion on demand
Am I the only one who bristles at this phrasing? I've been hearing it more lately and I think it's insidious. We don't say rhinoplasty on demand, or hip replacement on demand, or colonoscopy on demand.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 11:38 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one who bristles at this phrasing? I've been hearing it more lately and I think it's insidious. We don't say rhinoplasty on demand, or hip replacement on demand, or colonoscopy on demand.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 11:38 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one who bristles at this phrasing? I've been hearing it more lately and I think it's insidious. We don't say rhinoplasty on demand, or hip replacement on demand, or colonoscopy on demand.
I mean, to be fair, you don't generally get those things on demand. I don't think I could walk into a doctor's office today and get any of those things in the next few days without a doctor getting a say in it. I think the whole point of "on demand" is that it should happen more-or-less immediately and the doctor doesn't get a say.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean, to be fair, you don't generally get those things on demand. I don't think I could walk into a doctor's office today and get any of those things in the next few days without a doctor getting a say in it. I think the whole point of "on demand" is that it should happen more-or-less immediately and the doctor doesn't get a say.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:45 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Bespoke abortion
Boutique abortion
A la cart abortion
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Boutique abortion
A la cart abortion
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Would “appropriate health care on demand” sound better to you?
The thing about abortion is that it covers a range of surgical procedures or medication, and of course a doctor should be involved in figuring out which procedure would be most appropriate, or advising against any if there is ever a case where the risk of carrying a pregnancy to term is less than the risk from any potential abortion procedure (I’ve never, ever heard of this, but hey, I suppose it could happen). But there’s not really a non-abortion medical solution to “I’m pregnant and (for whatever reason) don’t want to be”, and I don’t think it’s a doctor’s role to tell a pregnant person whether or not they want to continue with a pregnancy.
Like, if I go to a doctor because I have any other medical condition or status that I want to no longer have - migraines, say - the doctor should definitely advise on what would be the most effective treatment options (or in some cases that aren’t terminating a pregnancy, advise if the risks of any treatment option for whatever it is do indeed outweigh the risk of doing nothing), but it’s not the doctor’s role to tell a patient that they (the patient) actually does want to continue having migraines (or whatever).
Rhinoplasty, hip replacement, and colonoscopy, in contrast, are each specific procedures that might be recommended by a doctor to diagnose or treat a patient complaint. For example, rhinoplasty could be a recommended treatment for a patient presenting with breathing difficulties after facial trauma or from some congenital issue, or could be part of a treatment plan for body dysmorphia (eg. for trans folks), or could be just for patient vanity. The patient complaint in each case might be “I want to be able to breathe okay” or “I want to not experience dysmorphia when I look in a mirror” or “I want to look different in a particular way”. Take the second example: if a trans woman is experiencing dysmorphia when she looks at her face in a mirror, the general category of solution is facial feminization surgery, of which rhinoplasty might or might not be a component. The equivalent to abortion is not rhinoplasty, but facial feminization. Would you say that trans women experiencing facial dysmorphia shouldn’t be allowed facial feminization surgery “on demand” (i.e. shouldn’t be able to go to a doctor, request a consultation, and have it scheduled for them because they requested it)?
Maybe you’ll say such a person should have a medical diagnosis of dysmorphia first? Then we start to get into the weeds of accessibility of trans-affirming medical care, so I think that’s effectively too high a bar to require as things currently stand. But also immaterial to this comparison, since someone also needs to have a diagnosis of pregnancy before getting an abortion - they do in fact get a pregnancy test so that a health care professional confirms that they have the medical condition of being pregnant before any treatment option is prescribed to terminate a pregnancy. That is, I can’t just go in to an abortion clinic and be like “I’m not pregnant, but just for shits and giggles can I get a D&E?”
Now, some medical conditions have timeliness concerns as far as their treatment goes. Suppose I break a bone, and I want to have a correctly healed bone. I can go to an emergency room and get treatment for that “on demand”, generally on the same day even! Other medical conditions won’t get worse over time, so eg. there are longer wait times for hip replacements in many instances (though there are several different reasons one might be prescribed a hip replacement and in some cases it might be related to a systemic infection and the surgery would be considered more urgent, to prevent sepsis). Timeliness is a concern when it comes to the issue of pregnancy when the patient complaint is that they no longer want to be pregnant, however, so one also will often be scheduled for an abortion on a much shorter time scale than a rhinoplasty (in cases other than reconstructing someone’s face in the immediate aftermath of an accident or attack with major facial trauma), hip replacement (when there isn’t a sepsis risk), or colonoscopy (unless the colonoscopy is for diagnosing an emergent issue like if someone is pooping blood, say).
posted by eviemath at 2:53 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
The thing about abortion is that it covers a range of surgical procedures or medication, and of course a doctor should be involved in figuring out which procedure would be most appropriate, or advising against any if there is ever a case where the risk of carrying a pregnancy to term is less than the risk from any potential abortion procedure (I’ve never, ever heard of this, but hey, I suppose it could happen). But there’s not really a non-abortion medical solution to “I’m pregnant and (for whatever reason) don’t want to be”, and I don’t think it’s a doctor’s role to tell a pregnant person whether or not they want to continue with a pregnancy.
Like, if I go to a doctor because I have any other medical condition or status that I want to no longer have - migraines, say - the doctor should definitely advise on what would be the most effective treatment options (or in some cases that aren’t terminating a pregnancy, advise if the risks of any treatment option for whatever it is do indeed outweigh the risk of doing nothing), but it’s not the doctor’s role to tell a patient that they (the patient) actually does want to continue having migraines (or whatever).
Rhinoplasty, hip replacement, and colonoscopy, in contrast, are each specific procedures that might be recommended by a doctor to diagnose or treat a patient complaint. For example, rhinoplasty could be a recommended treatment for a patient presenting with breathing difficulties after facial trauma or from some congenital issue, or could be part of a treatment plan for body dysmorphia (eg. for trans folks), or could be just for patient vanity. The patient complaint in each case might be “I want to be able to breathe okay” or “I want to not experience dysmorphia when I look in a mirror” or “I want to look different in a particular way”. Take the second example: if a trans woman is experiencing dysmorphia when she looks at her face in a mirror, the general category of solution is facial feminization surgery, of which rhinoplasty might or might not be a component. The equivalent to abortion is not rhinoplasty, but facial feminization. Would you say that trans women experiencing facial dysmorphia shouldn’t be allowed facial feminization surgery “on demand” (i.e. shouldn’t be able to go to a doctor, request a consultation, and have it scheduled for them because they requested it)?
Maybe you’ll say such a person should have a medical diagnosis of dysmorphia first? Then we start to get into the weeds of accessibility of trans-affirming medical care, so I think that’s effectively too high a bar to require as things currently stand. But also immaterial to this comparison, since someone also needs to have a diagnosis of pregnancy before getting an abortion - they do in fact get a pregnancy test so that a health care professional confirms that they have the medical condition of being pregnant before any treatment option is prescribed to terminate a pregnancy. That is, I can’t just go in to an abortion clinic and be like “I’m not pregnant, but just for shits and giggles can I get a D&E?”
Now, some medical conditions have timeliness concerns as far as their treatment goes. Suppose I break a bone, and I want to have a correctly healed bone. I can go to an emergency room and get treatment for that “on demand”, generally on the same day even! Other medical conditions won’t get worse over time, so eg. there are longer wait times for hip replacements in many instances (though there are several different reasons one might be prescribed a hip replacement and in some cases it might be related to a systemic infection and the surgery would be considered more urgent, to prevent sepsis). Timeliness is a concern when it comes to the issue of pregnancy when the patient complaint is that they no longer want to be pregnant, however, so one also will often be scheduled for an abortion on a much shorter time scale than a rhinoplasty (in cases other than reconstructing someone’s face in the immediate aftermath of an accident or attack with major facial trauma), hip replacement (when there isn’t a sepsis risk), or colonoscopy (unless the colonoscopy is for diagnosing an emergent issue like if someone is pooping blood, say).
posted by eviemath at 2:53 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
And it doesn't matter what it looks like. Anti-abortion people will see fuckin' Jesus in it or something. These photos will not make one bit of difference to the people who believe it's a human being with a soul.
And I wish there was a way to talk like adults, in a way that makes space both for people whose lives are made worse by the presence of that glob of cells and those of us who very much wanted them, but instead got the blood supply for a whole week of performances of MacBeth on the floor of the shower.
Totally. I’m a person who thinks those lil fuckers DO have a soul (~consciousness~life force~whatever) and I reject the blanket statement “it’s nothing”. It’s clearly SOMETHING. It’s not a big something though. I’ll also defend a woman’s right to choose whether she wants to be host to said minimally conscious lizard gummy bear, or not.
Personally those pictures look misleading and deliberately meant to minimize and that itself struck me as manipulative. It did not change my personal opinion either way.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:00 PM on October 21, 2022
And I wish there was a way to talk like adults, in a way that makes space both for people whose lives are made worse by the presence of that glob of cells and those of us who very much wanted them, but instead got the blood supply for a whole week of performances of MacBeth on the floor of the shower.
Totally. I’m a person who thinks those lil fuckers DO have a soul (~consciousness~life force~whatever) and I reject the blanket statement “it’s nothing”. It’s clearly SOMETHING. It’s not a big something though. I’ll also defend a woman’s right to choose whether she wants to be host to said minimally conscious lizard gummy bear, or not.
Personally those pictures look misleading and deliberately meant to minimize and that itself struck me as manipulative. It did not change my personal opinion either way.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:00 PM on October 21, 2022
Would “appropriate health care on demand” sound better to you?
Yes. To be clear, I fully want abortion (and all reproductive health care) to be legal in the US and for pregnant people to be able to make that decision for themselves.
My reaction to the phrase has been from hearing it in some media lately and thinking that it tries to frame people who seek an abortion as lazy consumers thoughtlessly looking for a fast "easy" solution.
I googled the phrase after I posted here, and I did see that the phrase has some history of being used by people arguing for access to this vital medical care and maybe seems to be that name of an online abortion pill service. So that tempers my knee-jerk reaction to the phrase.
However, I also turned up examples of the phrase by right-wing people demonizing access to abortion such as in Ireland, and the US here and here.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:39 PM on October 21, 2022
Yes. To be clear, I fully want abortion (and all reproductive health care) to be legal in the US and for pregnant people to be able to make that decision for themselves.
My reaction to the phrase has been from hearing it in some media lately and thinking that it tries to frame people who seek an abortion as lazy consumers thoughtlessly looking for a fast "easy" solution.
I googled the phrase after I posted here, and I did see that the phrase has some history of being used by people arguing for access to this vital medical care and maybe seems to be that name of an online abortion pill service. So that tempers my knee-jerk reaction to the phrase.
However, I also turned up examples of the phrase by right-wing people demonizing access to abortion such as in Ireland, and the US here and here.
posted by See you tomorrow, saguaro at 5:39 PM on October 21, 2022
It has indeed been used by anti-abortion groups. But that’s exactly why we need to question negative reactions to the phrase, and make the connections to other medical care and other basic human needs. People should have access to medical care - including abortion and other reproductive health care - when they need and want it. That shouldn’t be something viewed in a negative light. One place that many anti-abortion sentiments seem to come from is a place that rejects that idea and instead claims that people somehow need to meet some bar of being deserving in some way in order to access basic needs, though. It’s part of the cultural framework of Western societies to some degree, so many of us will find ourselves thinking along similar lines at times, even when that doesn’t align with our ideals. So I think it’s really important to recognize that “[X type of basic need] on demand” should be a positive outcome to work toward - including when x = abortion. But it sounds like you’re recognizing the cultural baggage and working toward this viewpoint.
posted by eviemath at 6:53 PM on October 21, 2022
posted by eviemath at 6:53 PM on October 21, 2022
Apart from the moral debate: I would appreciate an expert explanation of the differences between the tissue in Petri dishes in the main link versus the more familiar imagery. For example, this fifth-week post-fertilization fetus is clearly labeled as seven or eight millimeters from head to tail. The corresponding seven-week post-menstrual image in the main link is fifteen or twenty millimeters across, and the caption says “there is still no visible embryo.” So … where is it? The embryo should be half or a third the length of the gestational sac, but the caption makes it sound like the embryo is still microscopic.
A closely related question is why this extracted tissue, which is obviously highly vascular, is all doily-white. Where has the blood gone?
I feel like these images are in the category of “doesn’t this look like nothing?” Which is poor science communication, to invite people to be confused.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
A closely related question is why this extracted tissue, which is obviously highly vascular, is all doily-white. Where has the blood gone?
I feel like these images are in the category of “doesn’t this look like nothing?” Which is poor science communication, to invite people to be confused.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:29 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
This doesn't totally track. I had an ultrasound at 10 weeks (8 weeks from fertilization) and we saw a full-on baby shape. Head with clear facial profile (albeit not fully formed), torso, arms and legs and dots for fingers and toes. Yes, she was less than 1.5" long (though nearly 20" long on the monitor they use to display the ultrasound, which certainly affected our experience of seeing her).
I think these are like photos of the whole gestational sac from the outside. Inside is a little embryo that looks increasingly humanoid.
(Said as someone heartily pro-choice).
posted by amaire at 2:18 PM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think these are like photos of the whole gestational sac from the outside. Inside is a little embryo that looks increasingly humanoid.
(Said as someone heartily pro-choice).
posted by amaire at 2:18 PM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
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