Pretendian Alert
October 22, 2022 2:25 PM Subscribe
Sacheen Littlefeather was a Native American icon. Her sisters say she was an ethnic fraud. The “Apache” actress and activist wasn’t Native American, say her sisters. And that wasn’t the only thing she lied about.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, but I think if this is going to be posted, it really needs a lot more development with other information and analysis -- taz
Holy shit. This is wild. What a complicated, fucked up world we live in.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Yeah. A lot of native folks on Twitter are skeptical of Keeler’s work.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:48 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:48 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
More on the issues with Keeler’s pretendian list here.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 3:18 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
inserts popcorn eating gif
At this point we'll need an article about the article. I found the testimony of Littlefeather's sisters compelling, but glancing at Twitter I see they're also Trump supporters. But I don't want to fall into the trap of condemning one and believing the other. That seems... unnuanced. This sounds like a complex situation.
Also seen on Twitter: that Brando cut all ties with her when he found out Littlefeather had invented her Native heritage. Does anyone know anything about this?
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 3:32 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
At this point we'll need an article about the article. I found the testimony of Littlefeather's sisters compelling, but glancing at Twitter I see they're also Trump supporters. But I don't want to fall into the trap of condemning one and believing the other. That seems... unnuanced. This sounds like a complex situation.
Also seen on Twitter: that Brando cut all ties with her when he found out Littlefeather had invented her Native heritage. Does anyone know anything about this?
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 3:32 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
The objections I've seen on twitter certainly seem to indicate Keeler's motives as suspect, but so far I haven't seen a refutation of the facts as presented, nor have I seen any of the twitter objections indicate that Keeler or anyone else in the article has falsified information regarding Littlefeather.
Even with suspect motives, are Keeler's allegations of fact substantially true, and those of the women the SF Chronicle article indicates are Littlefeather's sisters? I honestly don't know, and if the allegations in the article are false (that Littlefeather's self-reported history was inaccurate, and that Littlefeather had no basis upon which to claim White Mountain Apache or Yaqui descent through her father), then the SF Chronicle has failed abominably by allowing this opinion piece to be published.
I've definitely seen enough to not simply accept Keeler's article at face value, but I'm suspending judgment pending further info and further listening on my part because the response thus far appears to be primarily ad hominem.
posted by tclark at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
Even with suspect motives, are Keeler's allegations of fact substantially true, and those of the women the SF Chronicle article indicates are Littlefeather's sisters? I honestly don't know, and if the allegations in the article are false (that Littlefeather's self-reported history was inaccurate, and that Littlefeather had no basis upon which to claim White Mountain Apache or Yaqui descent through her father), then the SF Chronicle has failed abominably by allowing this opinion piece to be published.
I've definitely seen enough to not simply accept Keeler's article at face value, but I'm suspending judgment pending further info and further listening on my part because the response thus far appears to be primarily ad hominem.
posted by tclark at 3:33 PM on October 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
Keeler has no professional experience with genealogy besides her profile on Ancestry.com
Using DNA as a kind of 'proof' of nationality/ethnicity is very problematic. You cannot measure culture through bloodlines.
See also Len Pennie: I'm 99% done with using DNA as a measure of "Scottishness".
I'm not saying that Sacheen Littlefeather must therefore be a Native American, but if you are going to cast doubt on it you need some much better evidence.
posted by Lanark at 4:10 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Using DNA as a kind of 'proof' of nationality/ethnicity is very problematic. You cannot measure culture through bloodlines.
See also Len Pennie: I'm 99% done with using DNA as a measure of "Scottishness".
I'm not saying that Sacheen Littlefeather must therefore be a Native American, but if you are going to cast doubt on it you need some much better evidence.
posted by Lanark at 4:10 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
This person says she's DM'd with the sister, and the sisters are Trump voters who found out they're allegedly not Native from Keeler.
posted by Mavri at 4:15 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Mavri at 4:15 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
To add to the trainwreckyness of it all, noted author Susie Bright says that Littlefeather's Latino heritage has been known in Salinas for a very long time.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:22 PM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:22 PM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I do not relish white people having an opinion about this.
posted by Bottlecap at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [29 favorites]
posted by Bottlecap at 4:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [29 favorites]
To the best of my knowledge, MeFi does not have substantial representation from within Native communities. It feels deeply inappropriate to drag this issue here, where the likely result is a lot of unfounded speculation and internet sleuthing from people outside of those communities.
posted by a faithful sock at 4:41 PM on October 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by a faithful sock at 4:41 PM on October 22, 2022 [15 favorites]
I've definitely seen enough to not simply accept Keeler's article at face value, but I'm suspending judgment pending further info and further listening on my part because the response thus far appears to be primarily ad hominem.
As someone for whom the bullshittery around "blood quantum" is intensely fucking personal because of how it's fucked my wife (who grew up on a reservation and has family still living there) over, let me be blunt - anybody who is trying to use it as a way to determine Native and not Native should be treated as suspect and arguing in bad faith.
(Also, let me point out that I really dislike ad hominem as a logical fallacy as it takes a very "spherical cows on infinite planes" look at debate - in the real world, credibility is a very real thing that can be attacked, hence why impeachment is A Thing in legal arguments.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:44 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
As someone for whom the bullshittery around "blood quantum" is intensely fucking personal because of how it's fucked my wife (who grew up on a reservation and has family still living there) over, let me be blunt - anybody who is trying to use it as a way to determine Native and not Native should be treated as suspect and arguing in bad faith.
(Also, let me point out that I really dislike ad hominem as a logical fallacy as it takes a very "spherical cows on infinite planes" look at debate - in the real world, credibility is a very real thing that can be attacked, hence why impeachment is A Thing in legal arguments.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:44 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
From the article:
White Mountain Apache tribal officials I spoke with told me they found no record of either Littlefeather or her family members, living or dead, being enrolled in the White Mountain Apache.
I absolutely recognize there's a world of nuance to Indigenous identity but if the Indigenous community in question says she's not one of them, I'm inclined to take their word.
posted by ZaphodB at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
White Mountain Apache tribal officials I spoke with told me they found no record of either Littlefeather or her family members, living or dead, being enrolled in the White Mountain Apache.
I absolutely recognize there's a world of nuance to Indigenous identity but if the Indigenous community in question says she's not one of them, I'm inclined to take their word.
posted by ZaphodB at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I do not relish white people having an opinion about this.
I'm not sure if this is pointed at me or not, but I wish to clarify that I do not actually have an opinion about this. I think the one thing is clear, if an article is to be written about this subject, someone more credible than Keeler should write it.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure if this is pointed at me or not, but I wish to clarify that I do not actually have an opinion about this. I think the one thing is clear, if an article is to be written about this subject, someone more credible than Keeler should write it.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Keeler: "Her parents were Manuel Ybarra Cruz and Gertrude Barnitz."
Littlefeather's mother was named Geroldine.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:23 PM on October 22, 2022
Littlefeather's mother was named Geroldine.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:23 PM on October 22, 2022
if the Indigenous community in question says she's not one of them, I'm inclined to take their word.
Enrollment is a complicated and difficult issue.
As some intro reading to help put this into context, here is a tweet from a thread previously linked in this discussion that mentions an element in why there is disagreement about enrollment. Here is an article that goes into the history of enrollment and blood quantum, and here are just two articles (1, 2) that talk about how enrollment has intersected with anti-Blackness -- which not incidentally, is one of the key issues that folks have had with Keeler for years and years, including screenshots that appear to show Keeler advocating for blackface circa 2014 to make a political statement.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Enrollment is a complicated and difficult issue.
As some intro reading to help put this into context, here is a tweet from a thread previously linked in this discussion that mentions an element in why there is disagreement about enrollment. Here is an article that goes into the history of enrollment and blood quantum, and here are just two articles (1, 2) that talk about how enrollment has intersected with anti-Blackness -- which not incidentally, is one of the key issues that folks have had with Keeler for years and years, including screenshots that appear to show Keeler advocating for blackface circa 2014 to make a political statement.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:38 PM on October 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
It seems to me the only important issue is whether the groups she said she was a member of agreed that she was one of them. I don't know whether that's true, but everything else is noise.
posted by maxwelton at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 5:46 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
It seems to me the only important issue is whether the groups she said she was a member of agreed that she was one of them.
Please read the links that joyceanmachine provided, because enrollment is in fact a very complicated and fraught topic, involving politics, racism, money, and power in ways that most people don't understand because it's internal to these communities and thus isn't discussed outside of them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
Please read the links that joyceanmachine provided, because enrollment is in fact a very complicated and fraught topic, involving politics, racism, money, and power in ways that most people don't understand because it's internal to these communities and thus isn't discussed outside of them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:50 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
Because pioneer-era California was extremely murderous towards Native Americans, a lot of them claimed to be Mexican and covered up their heritages, even to the point of not telling their kids. It was a way to avoid discrimination and abuse.
However I'd be more likely to believe Susie Bright on the subject, because her dad was Bill Bright, who was a very distinguished scholar in Linguistics studying Native American languages of California. He was respected in California Indian communities for his thoughtful and important work.
So if Bill Bright's daughter says this woman's family were actually Latinos, at least she's not speaking from historical ignorance.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 5:51 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
However I'd be more likely to believe Susie Bright on the subject, because her dad was Bill Bright, who was a very distinguished scholar in Linguistics studying Native American languages of California. He was respected in California Indian communities for his thoughtful and important work.
So if Bill Bright's daughter says this woman's family were actually Latinos, at least she's not speaking from historical ignorance.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 5:51 PM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
(Also, let me point out that I really dislike ad hominem as a logical fallacy as it takes a very "spherical cows on infinite planes" look at debate - in the real world, credibility is a very real thing that can be attacked, hence why impeachment is A Thing in legal arguments.)
Apologies for the derail, but Ad hominem is completely compatible with legal proceedings.
If someone is invoking ad hominem to bar attacks on credibility in a debate, they are misunderstanding its proper application and probably, more broadly, don't understand the intended utility of informal logic, or when it's appropriate to invoke it.
You don't throw a lawn mower out because it's bad at cutting hair.
posted by mph at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Apologies for the derail, but Ad hominem is completely compatible with legal proceedings.
If someone is invoking ad hominem to bar attacks on credibility in a debate, they are misunderstanding its proper application and probably, more broadly, don't understand the intended utility of informal logic, or when it's appropriate to invoke it.
You don't throw a lawn mower out because it's bad at cutting hair.
posted by mph at 5:53 PM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Setting most of this aside because I have no expertise or relevant background, I will just say that you cannot trust a single word spoken by a Trumpie, regardless of their cultural affiliation. Ever.
If the sisters are indeed Trumpie, and they said the sky was blue, you’d be well-advised to look outside first. Assume malice.
posted by aramaic at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
If the sisters are indeed Trumpie, and they said the sky was blue, you’d be well-advised to look outside first. Assume malice.
posted by aramaic at 5:54 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
My full blooded Cherokee uncle, George went to California with my aunt Dee, and the first thing he did when approached by census workers in 1940, was to register as a white man. That is how he became white. He is my uncle by marriage.
posted by Oyéah at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 6:11 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
enrollment is in fact a very complicated and fraught topic, involving politics, racism, money, and power in ways that most people don't understand
There's been some pretty ugly disenrollment disputes over the last decades among California tribes, often over the prospects of casino revenue but sometimes much older disputes. Maybe the most notorious was the Elen Pomo, where the initial disenrollment (eventually rescinded) removed every single member living on their historical rancheria including the last living speaker of the language.
So yeah, enrollment can't be taken as the single answer either.
posted by tavella at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
There's been some pretty ugly disenrollment disputes over the last decades among California tribes, often over the prospects of casino revenue but sometimes much older disputes. Maybe the most notorious was the Elen Pomo, where the initial disenrollment (eventually rescinded) removed every single member living on their historical rancheria including the last living speaker of the language.
So yeah, enrollment can't be taken as the single answer either.
posted by tavella at 7:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Pretendians is a funny Canadian documentary about this issue.
Then there was a thing on APTN about 2 stand-up comics goofing around together, one guy was mostly white but grew up in the rez, and the other guy was native but adopted and grew up in white-world...
posted by ovvl at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2022
Then there was a thing on APTN about 2 stand-up comics goofing around together, one guy was mostly white but grew up in the rez, and the other guy was native but adopted and grew up in white-world...
posted by ovvl at 8:06 PM on October 22, 2022
So if Bill Bright's daughter says this woman's family were actually Latinos, at least she's not speaking from historical ignorance.
I mean, complicating that is that many, many, many Latine people have significant indigenous ancestry, to the point that Latine folks who are entirely European-descended tend to get noted in my experience as their own thing.
Saying that someone is not indigenous because they're "really" Latine is uh. That's not necessarily a signifier of someone's expertise to me, let me put it that way.
posted by sciatrix at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
I mean, complicating that is that many, many, many Latine people have significant indigenous ancestry, to the point that Latine folks who are entirely European-descended tend to get noted in my experience as their own thing.
Saying that someone is not indigenous because they're "really" Latine is uh. That's not necessarily a signifier of someone's expertise to me, let me put it that way.
posted by sciatrix at 8:20 PM on October 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Even if Ms Littlefeather was Latina, she's still indigenous, perhaps detribalized but still indigenous.
Federal recognition of tribes, blood quantum, tribal enrollment and culture policing are all tools of the continuing genocide of indigenous people. The entire point is our erasure.
I am an enrolled member of the Rosebud Oyate. It took me THREE YEARS to get enrolled. My kids aren't enrolled but they are Lakota as fuck. And news like this just reminds me that the dominant culture will do anything, say anything, split every hair to erase us.
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
Federal recognition of tribes, blood quantum, tribal enrollment and culture policing are all tools of the continuing genocide of indigenous people. The entire point is our erasure.
I am an enrolled member of the Rosebud Oyate. It took me THREE YEARS to get enrolled. My kids aren't enrolled but they are Lakota as fuck. And news like this just reminds me that the dominant culture will do anything, say anything, split every hair to erase us.
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 8:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [21 favorites]
However I'd be more likely to believe Susie Bright on the subject, because her dad was Bill Bright, who was a very distinguished scholar in Linguistics studying Native American languages of California. [...] So if Bill Bright's daughter says this woman's family were actually Latinos, at least she's not speaking from historical ignorance.
I'm not in any sort of position to have any sort of opinion about whose claims are right and wrong, but this specifically is a very strange position. My parents are widely-respected experts in their fields, and yet if I argued about something in those fields I would absolutely be speaking from ignorance, despite dinner-table exposure to some of their work growing up, despite social acquaintance with their fellow experts, and despite me legitimately caring about and having a personal connection to those fields. At best, my ignorance in those fields is still only slightly less deep than most people's.
posted by trig at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm not in any sort of position to have any sort of opinion about whose claims are right and wrong, but this specifically is a very strange position. My parents are widely-respected experts in their fields, and yet if I argued about something in those fields I would absolutely be speaking from ignorance, despite dinner-table exposure to some of their work growing up, despite social acquaintance with their fellow experts, and despite me legitimately caring about and having a personal connection to those fields. At best, my ignorance in those fields is still only slightly less deep than most people's.
posted by trig at 8:40 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
This opinion column makes me really upset and the fact that it's posted on the Blue with little context or framing and is taken at face value is also irresponsible and harmful-- from what I've learned of attending panels by Bay Area/Central Valley indigenous activists as a settler-immigrant, Spanish colonization was so evil and early that a lot of California indigenous tribes don't qualify according to federal and state requirements for acknowledgment unless you use invasive 'methods' like DNA, which is like, really fucked up on a lot of levels.
This is a profoundly violent column that seems to be rooted in some woman's vendetta and carceral obsession over policing someone's identity, which is a reproduction of white supremacy. I think it's not wise for this topic to be open, and some Mefites much closer to the subject matter than me already are voicing their concern and hurt. It's also not for anyone's place to talk about it if they aren't indigenous either, tbh...I know so little but this just seems really wrong.
posted by yueliang at 8:49 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
This is a profoundly violent column that seems to be rooted in some woman's vendetta and carceral obsession over policing someone's identity, which is a reproduction of white supremacy. I think it's not wise for this topic to be open, and some Mefites much closer to the subject matter than me already are voicing their concern and hurt. It's also not for anyone's place to talk about it if they aren't indigenous either, tbh...I know so little but this just seems really wrong.
posted by yueliang at 8:49 PM on October 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
And, to be very frank, if you're white and your "only concern" is that White Mountain Apache officials don't recognize Sacheen Littlefeather or find any records of her family so that casts doubt on her indigeneity for you, you're showing your ass.
The tribal system WAS DESIGNED by the dominant culture to gatekeep and reduce tribal enrollment so that we'd all eventually disappear. Informal adoption exists in all indigenous tribes. Hell, I've adopted my detribalized Latinx step kid. Sacheen Littlefeather got her passion, knowledge and respect for indigenous culture from SOMEONE. Just because YOU don't know who that is doesn't make her activism any less real.
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
The tribal system WAS DESIGNED by the dominant culture to gatekeep and reduce tribal enrollment so that we'd all eventually disappear. Informal adoption exists in all indigenous tribes. Hell, I've adopted my detribalized Latinx step kid. Sacheen Littlefeather got her passion, knowledge and respect for indigenous culture from SOMEONE. Just because YOU don't know who that is doesn't make her activism any less real.
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 8:57 PM on October 22, 2022 [11 favorites]
Also the shit framing of this post about a dead indigenous activist reminds me why I left MF over 2 years ago. Ya'll are not making it easy for me to come back.
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 9:07 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Heaventhenthesea at 9:07 PM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm not in any sort of position to have any sort of opinion about whose claims are right and wrong, but this specifically is a very strange position. My parents are widely-respected experts in their fields, and yet if I argued about something in those fields I would absolutely be speaking from ignorance
I guess I wasn't very clear when I wrote that. Bright isn't arguing anything; she's not the author of the article at all. She wrote a Tweet saying that she (and everybody else) knew, when she was growing up in the same town as "Sacheem Littlefeather," that that family were pulling a hilarious scam on the Hollywood establishment.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:10 PM on October 22, 2022
I guess I wasn't very clear when I wrote that. Bright isn't arguing anything; she's not the author of the article at all. She wrote a Tweet saying that she (and everybody else) knew, when she was growing up in the same town as "Sacheem Littlefeather," that that family were pulling a hilarious scam on the Hollywood establishment.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 9:10 PM on October 22, 2022
(right, I'm saying I don't think who Bright's father was is reason to find her any more credible than you might otherwise)
posted by trig at 9:33 PM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by trig at 9:33 PM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
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I’m Yaqui and I believe Sacheen. (SLTwitter)
posted by Etrigan at 2:39 PM on October 22, 2022 [23 favorites]