[it looks better] in the dark, which is a compliment I receive a lot too

November 5, 2022 3:01 PM

"When I started this, I thought this video was going to be like a chill travelog, that was like 30 minutes long, and, uh, it didn't turn out to be that." Jenny Nicholson does a fascinating four hours (almost) on the history and status (as of 2021) of Evermore, a Theme Park/Live Action Role Play experience.

(Note: there are a few sections that are pretty dark, towards the end, talking about mental health, worker exploitation, etc. In particular, the section that starts around 2:35)

posted by Gorgik (34 comments total)

I am writing this from a LARP I am at right fucking now and I look forward to watching it when I get back to the part of the world with wifi. Thanks for posting!
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:04 PM on November 5, 2022 [7 favorites]

Such a tour de force, and I think she has a really engaging narrative that drew me in. Even thought I don't care for theme parks at all.
posted by Gorgik at 3:05 PM on November 5, 2022

The costume changes alone in this one!

I caught this last night and honestly didn't intend to watch the whole thing, but four hours later, there I was. Nicholson's at the top of her game when she's doing deep dive stuff and I think in some ways she has spent more actual practical thought on the logistics of the park than the actual millionaire owner. Pretty sure they owe her a tree.
posted by mochapickle at 4:14 PM on November 5, 2022 [9 favorites]

Wow- that was incredible.

While eviscerating the artistic vision / corporate / on the ground reality - she still ever holds out hope. That’s amazing to me.

And I loved the (paraphrasing - because , sooo many good lines) - “autumnal Americans want to see lots and lots of pumpkins” (do you quote an maybe inaccurate paraphrase? I’m not sure).

EMore is asking *a lot* out of their employees and paying them by resting the success of the fantastical vision on the employee’s shoulders.
posted by mrzz at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2022 [2 favorites]

I know of the existence of Evermore only because they sued Taylor Swift and I wrote a trivia question about the lawsuit for LearnedLeague.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:32 PM on November 5, 2022 [5 favorites]

36:43 / 3:48:14 * Lore

"And now I think you've got the basics."

Jenny knocking it out of the park.
posted by mikelieman at 5:36 PM on November 5, 2022 [4 favorites]

" ... this unmarked closed building which I later discovered is called 'Hunter's Hovel' and once sold snacks."
posted by user92371 at 6:09 PM on November 5, 2022 [3 favorites]

Some people associated with Evermore are in the comments section:

Ashley Downs
4 hours ago
Former Evermore Employee here (I worked Pyrra and Lore 2020).
There are so many things I could add to this video, things i heard and experienced while working at the park. It's honestly awful to look back on my early memories and realize how blinded I was by the Idea of Evermore. It took getting fired in the Swift Purge (rumor has it we were fired SO That he could sue taylor) to get me to stop killing myself for the park.

Not only were things logistically bad for actors (no framework for dealing with harassment, poor pay, etc) the culture was also horrible to be in. The writers basically had 5 actors they really liked and those actors got all the good parts every season and everyone who wasn't in that group just... didn't get to be plot relevant.

I played Baroke, a Goblin artist who was introduced for the first Epic. I basically gave out clues and weak riddles for the first few weeks and then after that, when they switched to the next Epic, I got set loose in the park without any direction. They kind of expected me to draw customers but gave me no resources and no way to advertise that I did that so i just walked in circles around the park every day - nearly got heat stroke twice because of my full cowl prosthetic mask. I would try to engage customers but no one ever sought me out and eventually i stopped reaching out to anyone but Brand New customers because it was just too demoralizing. Baroke was a character who already felt like she didn't matter and then everyone treated me like I didn't. The character bleed was intense. And no, we were not provided any counseling.

In Lore they gave me one story night where I got turned into a human to introduce one of the new Important characters who made magical deals. I got a few conversations that night from regulars trying to figure out what happened but after they all heard the story i was forgotten again. It fucking sucked and i spent almost a year convincing myself it was going to get better when it never did. None of that is to even mention all the problematic and antisemitic things about Goblins in the Evermore canon.

Anyway. Thanks to Jenny for putting so much time and effort into the video. It doesn't undo everything the park did to me and my friends, but it helps. <3
posted by Gorgik at 6:21 PM on November 5, 2022 [6 favorites]

One of her points is that the theme park was never finished or taken care of from the start. So yes, it is more than fair. Give Jenny a try, I'm interested in almost none of her topics and they are always fascinating! Loved this one. She's a YouTube treasure.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:12 PM on November 5, 2022 [6 favorites]

One of the best things about her is her exhaustive coverage! She really couldn't have lost an hour. Makes me want to watch the previous one again about the musicals a certain church group put out.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:35 AM on November 6, 2022

(And what, the people in for 3 hours are in but they'd balk at 4? Not hardly, lol!)
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:44 AM on November 6, 2022

"sorry babe not tonight. a youtuber just posted a 4-hour video essay about something ive never heard of" sums up my feelings about this.

Putting on a pot of coffee. Let's do this.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:56 AM on November 6, 2022 [3 favorites]

Wow. That was amazingly thorough and well done. Also depressing, because it seemed like it would have been so easy for the management to do just a little bit better in a number of areas to make the whole experience a lot better. The CEO parking his SUV in front of one of the nicest features during park hours? WTF? The lack of care for the employees and the unsafe conditions - absolutely horrible.
posted by Glinn at 6:57 AM on November 6, 2022 [3 favorites]

If you watched the whole thing (or even most of it) then you owe it to yourself to stay for the spot-on parody of Evermore (the song) that comes at the very end.

They got the tone exactly right and managed to summarize the whole debacle of a visit in the lyrics.
posted by montag2k at 8:59 AM on November 6, 2022 [4 favorites]

I didn’t even notice! Whoa…
posted by mochapickle at 9:28 AM on November 6, 2022 [2 favorites]

Count me in as someone who ended up watching the whole thing. Super fascinating -- this isn't an issue of COVID, it's an issue of a CEO who's a careless dilettante making untenable promises with little follow-through and leaving everyone else holding the bag, often in alarming ways, like the lack of protections for employees.

I also liked her suggestions for improving the park. She seems really knowledgeable/insightful.
posted by Emily's Fist at 3:56 PM on November 6, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm only 40 minutes in, so apologies of Jenny covers this at some point, but I'm surprised there's no mention of this there or here yet: rich eccentric obsessed with stories and puzzles uses his wealth to create a fantasy world in a small town in America, blending elements from multiple time periods in which people from Earth can play the role of heroes or leaders, and calls it Evermore, and ultimately things don't turn out as planned.... why does this sound familiar?
posted by biogeo at 9:52 PM on November 6, 2022

I loved this video and can't wait for her video on the Efteling, which she visited this summer.
posted by Pendragon at 12:57 AM on November 7, 2022

My wife and I watched this last night and, of all the hilarious, ridiculous, and depressing bullshit, the part that made me the most pointlessly outraged was the brief section where they talked about how the founder imported stone from England and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on antiques for set dressing rather than, you know, finishing construction. It's just such rich people bullshit! "Oh sure, our project isn't functional, but look at all these expensive status markers! That makes it cool and valid, doesn't it!"

Great video, although I dunno, I might have preferred if it was split in two, just because wow that was a long afternoon and evening.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:34 AM on November 7, 2022 [3 favorites]

Not even just that, but didn't spend time making sure the guest gameplay worked or was fun, something that is almost free to develop, then, or now.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:09 AM on November 7, 2022

I might be misremembering things because it was such a long video, but wasn't some of that expensive stone he imported actual gravestones?

And then there's the desiccated head of Tick Tock the Automaton on display in back of the restaurant. The guy can't even competently do that thing Disney does when they insert easter egg references to rides which no longer exist. This is like putting the head of Jenny's beloved Buzzy animatronic on display in the back of the Starlight Cafe.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:16 AM on November 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

Actual gravestones! Which is doubly stupid because, as Jenny points out, custom gravestones would be perfect adjuncts to quests or worldbuilding!
posted by restless_nomad at 5:19 AM on November 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

Jenny has some good ideas for the park, but I would add:

1) Hire someone to write a few licensed paperback novels to build out the "world". Allow them to create a dozen or so major characters, establish backstories, and produce something that could be used to both promote the park "the books you can visit!" and be a primer for first-time guests. It doesn't have to be great storytelling, it just has to be some storytelling.

2) Stop pretending that you can provide guests with a unique, personal experience that fits in with the story and just focus on the escapism. Allowing guests to visit the park in costume and hang out in a cool environment (provided construction is ever finished) with other fantasy creatures is pretty cool in and of itself with maybe a few mild, atmospheric story beats to keep it interesting. Like maybe a foreign king's delegation is visiting and there's a parade, or perhaps the assassins guild is having their annual picnic and exhibition.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:51 AM on November 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yeah, the personalization is a genuinely hard problem, especially when trying to balance regular weekly attendees and one-time tourists. I think the idea of quests with tangible aspects, like the Buzzfeed reporter got, is fun and possible but requires a lot of staffing. And putting more of the story out there for people to engage with even if they're not at the park - not even necessarily novels! Weekly or biweekly short stories would be fun! - has a ton of potential as a relatively inexpensive draw.

All that said, my gut reaction to even the best-case scenarios of a park like this is "fuck no". I like renfaires but I haaaaate interactive theater, being put on the spot in public, or having to deal with people who are hamming it up in terrible accents. Give me axe-throwing and blacksmithing demos and other crafts or games that don't require me to write dialogue for myself on the fly. I think if you're going to do something like this and have it really succeed, you can have the RP/LARP aspects, but you also need a) something for children too small to participate in complicated story stuff and b) something for folks like me who are happy to wear a jerkin and slops and eat turkey legs, but who does NOT want to end up with some character actor dramatically shouting at me about my betrayal. That part gave me the crawling horrors. (Perhaps weirdly, I was 100% into the VR version of same, although I suspect I'd have horrible motion sickness and have to bail. I am sorry I missed that as a thing, though!)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:58 AM on November 7, 2022

For all it's money and expertise, Disney can't even get the whole "unique experience" thing right at their Star Wars hotel. At that scale, it's impossible to provide every guest with the opportunity to be the protagonist of their own story without completely debasing that story (i.e. "wait hear until the previous group of rebels is done having their secret meeting with the imperial defector" and "your quest is to think of three compliments that don't use the letter 'h'").

But it's still cool to have a living museum of fantasy characters you can visit for the evening, just like it would still be pretty cool to spend a night on a pretend spaceship even if the fate of the rebellion wasn't at stake.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:05 AM on November 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

restless_nomad, I had to skip over most of the Character segment for this very reason. Do I want to drink fizzy things out of goblets, wander through a fantasy village, buy flower crowns, watch artists and dancers and flamethrowers? Yes! Do I want to be spoken to in riddles, ever, in an English accent or otherwise? Absolutely not!

RonButNotStupid, they should totally hire you. Those are fantastic ideas. The books idea? BRILLIANT.
posted by mochapickle at 6:07 AM on November 7, 2022

Also I totally want a three-story haunted pirate ship.
posted by mochapickle at 6:08 AM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

The whole actual story leads itself to such a fantasy retelling, I'm surprised that none of the staff, who were fed up and planning to quit anyway, have not started telling the tale of Mad Lord Kenneth, his battles with the Lords of Deseret, and his utterly stupid war on Queen Sartor and the Kingdom of Apodida which was foretold in prophecy that he would lose. Yes, Bretschnider could fire them, he could not however behead them on the spot.
posted by dannyboybell at 6:09 AM on November 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

Oh oh oh oh oh. I also forgot:

3) Ditch the whole "world walkers" concept. As appealing as it is to create a story about a community of people from all sorts of fantasy settings who experienced their own personal traumas and "fell through the cracks portals" into this world, THIS IS HOW YOU GET PARA-SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Not to denigrate the people who would absolutely see something of themselves in this concept and find refuge as guests in your park, but YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DEAL WITH THEM AND YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES. Some people are going to form unhealthy relationships no matter what you do, but the park's current concept seems to be especially encouraging of it, and that's unfair to everyone involved.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:28 AM on November 7, 2022

Another former employee in the comments section touches on the parasocial problem:

Hello! As a former actor of the park I would like to thank you for making a video like this. I worked at the park from the opening in 2018 to the mass firing in January/Feburary of 2021. I have played characters from Tip Top, to the elven ranger leader, to a simple townsperson.

I wanted to simply add pieces of my story with this park. To start, though I loved playing Tip Top the Automaton, it caused some very painful and seemingly (via several doctor's appointments) irreversible damage to my back and my body as a whole. It was not built as readily for a person of my height, though I only came to learn that after playing the character for two full seasons. Based on some of my other fellow actors that have played Tip Top they have also mentioned some rather annoying, and in some cases, painful repercussions from the suit.

Aside from any physical damage caused to me or my body, I also experienced some rather intense versions of parasocial relationships getting out of hand. I will not go into detail as to protect myself and those that know my story, but I was in a rather dangerous situation with a stalker that got way to out of hand. No physical harm was enacted, but the mental turmoil and general feeling of unsafety after the fact was beyond anything anyone should ever have to experience.

Overall I love the friendships I have made from working at the park, but the overall trauma of the situation is not something I would ever wish upon anybody.

So that also addresses the Tip Top mystery; they couldn't even build a decent steampunk golem suit, or cast someone who actually fit in it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:46 PM on November 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

About 2/3 through this, loving it so far. I think that it's so devastating when Jenny Nicholson takes something down precisely because she tries so hard to see the best in everything. She's positive, she's a Good Fan, she'll watch the cruddiest straight-to-DVD tie-in and try to find something good about the character design or one witty line in the dialogue. So when she whales on something, you know that it's absolutely, objectively terrible, by scrupulously fair standards.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:28 AM on November 8, 2022 [5 favorites]

Watched it to the end and just wanted to add that the impeccably-produced theme song at the end is fantastic.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:16 AM on November 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

Still an hour out from the end, but I wanted to pause and reflect on the niche phenomenon that is Wen Weaver, fan favorite, extraordinarily dramatic improviser, and object lesson in pyrotechnics safety.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:18 PM on November 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think that it's so devastating when Jenny Nicholson takes something down precisely because she tries so hard to see the best in everything. She's positive, she's a Good Fan, she'll watch the cruddiest straight-to-DVD tie-in and try to find something good about the character design or one witty line in the dialogue. So when she whales on something, you know that it's absolutely, objectively terrible, by scrupulously fair standards.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:28 AM on November 8

My partner pointed out that when Nicholson gets mad at something like this, it's because the park in question could have done better. Not just effort-wise, but they had the resources to do better. They absolutely could have done better in every way. This was an opportunity absolutely squandered by a guy who made a piece of (albeit very important) software, and thought he could do whatever else he wanted because of that.
posted by gc at 10:19 AM on November 11, 2022 [1 favorite]