The State of Ketchup in 2022 🍅

November 29, 2022 6:02 AM

Ketchup Is the Absolute Worst Condiment. When Every Ketchup But One Went Extinct. Heinz Is Not America’s Best Ketchup. Oxford Scientists Crack Case of Why Ketchup Splatters From Near-empty Bottle. The Surprising Asianness of Ketchup. Climate Change Is Coming For Your Ketchup. A Skeptic Tries: Ketchup. Ketchup: Fridge or Cupboard? The Debate Is Settled. So, Can Dogs Eat Ketchup? We Have The Answer. Don't Even Think About Putting Ketchup On A Hot Dog. Queen Elizabeth Is Releasing Her Own Royal Condiments.
posted by Fizz (169 comments total)

Ketchup Is the Absolute Worst Condiment

My toddler would like a word. I also put ketchup on hot dogs, so. Eat what you like. I like ketchup.
posted by HumanComplex at 6:21 AM on November 29, 2022 [32 favorites]

COUNTERPOINT
posted by lalochezia at 6:24 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

Ketchup does a better job than mustard of disguising the taste of hot dogs, so that's what I go with when I have my annual birthday (it's a tradition with friends) wieners.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:26 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I understand that other people find American food unbearably sweet, and ketchup is probably one of the main reasons. If you have toddlers or have an occasional yearning that only ketchup can fill, let me suggest chili sauce, which is a slightly spicier ketchup that is probably still boring enough for a kid. Homemade ketchup can be amazing, but I personally am not putting in the time. I have been meaning to try one of the fancy ketchups at TJ's.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:27 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I*used* to be a Heinz ("and no other kindz") kinda guy.

Then... they closed their local plant here in Ontario, put hundreds of people out of work, so that they could produce it elsewhere - more cheaply, I am sure.

In what can only be described as genius level marketing, French's swooped in, bought the facility (or made a deal with Heinz, this is a little unclear), re-hired the staff and produce their own ketchup now... And guess what... It tastes identical... And good old Costo carries it in 2-packs, and in our family, we are all happily no longer supporting Heinz.
posted by rozcakj at 6:27 AM on November 29, 2022 [28 favorites]

I also put ketchup on hotdogs.

And I refuse to eat hotdogs with natural casings because I don't like the snap.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:28 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

The article about Chicago style hot dogs ("Don't even Think about....") speaks truth. I went on a brief vacation to Chicago and at one point I realized I had just been through a 36-hour period where I'd eaten nothing but hot dogs, because that's how good Chicago style dogs are.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:31 AM on November 29, 2022 [9 favorites]

oh dang I hate ketchup. As soon as I started cooking my own food and thinking about what I liked, I never ate ketchup willingly. A horrible invention that exists to give horrible food a flavour.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:31 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm a big fan of "elevating" regular or default ketchup. I like to add the spicy chilli crisp sauce concentrates that you can find in many Asian food grocers. It adds a little kick and tang to the sweetness of ketchup.
posted by Fizz at 6:32 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

Very disappointed that the "When Every Ketchup But One Went Extinct." link is not about how there was a big plague in the 1920s that killed all but one substandard species of ketchup trees.
posted by simmering octagon at 6:33 AM on November 29, 2022 [34 favorites]

I accidentally got some ketchup in my eye. Now I have perfect heinzsight.
posted by DreamerFi at 6:34 AM on November 29, 2022 [31 favorites]

The day I dipped lumpia in banana ketchup, is the day I changed my opinion on ketchup.
posted by wellifyouinsist at 6:35 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]

ketchup.gif
posted by Fizz at 6:35 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]

This is also horrible, but I'll often use my pizza crust to mop up what ketchup remains in the little dipping cup that came with my order of onion rings.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Ketchup & mustard on pizza is not the horror story you've been led to believe. It can and is another way to make pizza better. I will die on this hill.
posted by Fizz at 6:39 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I like to think I have good taste in food -- I'm vegetarian but other than that limit, I'll eat just about anything. I like strong flavors and spicy food and I'm always willing to try new things.

I love ketchup, though. I don't eat it on everything but there are things it's absolutely delicious with. I don't get the weird elitism of hating ketchup. Eat what you like and care less about what other people eat.
posted by edencosmic at 6:40 AM on November 29, 2022 [26 favorites]

My fave ketchup for many years was Brooks Spicy. But, they switched to using HFCS, and I said bye-bye. I lean toward Simply Heinz these days, as far as supermarket brands go.

I occasionally try various small-“natural”-brand-only-found-in-small-stores ketchups, but they never quite do it for me. Like they are almost ketchup, but don’t quite get there. Kind of in the same way carob isn’t quite chocolate.

Also: Dipping potato chips in ketchup is my “wish I had french fries right now” guilty pleasure.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Oxford Scientists Crack Case of Why Ketchup Splatters From Near-empty Bottle.

This has got to be the same reason why you sometimes do #2 and it turns out there is gas in the pipe rather than non-ideal fluid and it splatters instead of dropping right out, yeah?

I should do find and replace and get a paper off to An(n)al(s).
posted by biffa at 6:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

brb sending this to my husband... he has a few food aversions he's reconsidered (like mashed potatoes, and beans, and pickles) but I don't think he'll ever like ketchup, which he calls "the devil's ass paste". And it's hard to make a health case for ketchup because it's also bad for you!!!

I used to try to sway him by pointing out that he likes BBQ sauce, which 9/10 times is made at home by adding Worcestershire sauce, vinegar, and spices to ketchup. No dice.

When I was younger I liked ketchup on a lot of things - like (mayonnaise-less) canned tuna - but now it's something I only like on burgers and fries, and I gotta imagine that's American cultural conditioning, like enjoying root beer. If I hadn't grown up with it, would I like it? Probably not.

Also re: hot dogs... Ketchup is for hamburgers. Mustard is for hot dogs.
posted by subdee at 6:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Chicago style dogs would be improved by taking each topping and dialing it back like 50%. The ratios aren’t right.

Except the sport peppers. Those are perfect.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I like to put ketchup on my hot dogs explicitly to trigger Chicago people and because I like for my hot dogs to be as colorful as possible, nothing to do with flavor.
posted by windbox at 6:45 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Also: Dipping potato chips in ketchup is my “wish I had french fries right now” guilty pleasure.

Contemplates the ouroboros implications of dipping ketchup flavoured chips into ketchup.
posted by Fizz at 6:46 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]

Hotdog, Bun, Ketchup, Yellow Mustard.
I know it's not "good" in the way a proper sausage with grainy mustard is, but it is AWESOME in the same way that Kraft mac and cheese or a movie starring The Rock are.
I will not apologize for my delight in trash.
I also like Jello.
Fight me.
posted by TheCoug at 6:46 AM on November 29, 2022 [13 favorites]

As a Chicago area resident, Chicago style dogs would be improved by taking each topping and dialing it back like 50%. The ratios aren’t right.

I’ve always had the impression that a Chicago Dog is a hot dog that is trying too hard to be accepted.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:46 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm a Chicagoan and the whole "no ketchup!" is a fun little gatekeeping thing we do but I really don't give a shit what you put on your dog.

The practical reason to avoid ketchup, which the article misses, is because a real Chicago dog uses a steamed bun. When you add all the water from the ketchup the whole thing is disintegrating after the second bite. If you take it to go, it will be a wet pile of mush when you unwrap it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:47 AM on November 29, 2022 [12 favorites]

a 36-hour period where I'd eaten nothing but hot dogs

EC, what’s your preferred breakfast hot dog?
posted by zamboni at 6:47 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

dipping ketchup flavoured chips into ketchup.

When All Dressed isn’t dressed enough.
posted by zamboni at 6:49 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

Ketchup is the devil's condiment. Disgusting, sweet, sticky stuff.

It drives me crazy that here in Canada, once a nation where vinegar-on-fries was commonly assumed, most restaurants now only give you ketchup and you have to ask for the vinegar.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:53 AM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]

This is also horrible, but I'll often use my pizza crust to mop up what ketchup remains in the little dipping cup that came with my order of onion rings.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:39 AM on November 29
[+] [!]

You and my sister would get along! Ketchup is her favorite food (Heinz was her go to, but Hunts was tolerated). She over indulged enough that I got turned off by the smell for a bit as a kid, so I switch to mustard on my fries, hotdogs, etc.

Mustard is still my general preference, but a place in Seattle used to serve a trio of condiments with their fries. One of them was pickle ketchup (I think literally dill pickle juice mixed into their homemade ketchup). It was amazing and is my very favorite if unobtainable condiment.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:53 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I mean, yeah, Heinz ketchup is not exactly haute cuisine, but since everyone in American identifies it as the Platonic ideal of ketchup, all ketchups you buy in grocery stores are equally abominable. That doesn't mean all ketchup is terrible, though, it just means you have to look hard to find the stuff that isn't. There was a restaurant near me that made their own, and goddamn was it a game changer--garlicky, a little tart, with roasted tomatoes and no other sweetener besides aforementioned tomatoes. I'd go there just for a beer and some fries with homemade ketchup, because it was delightful. Then COVID happened, they closed, and I don't have a source for ketchup anymore, so my kids have immediately forgotten what the good stuff tastes like and have returned to their Heinz tomato-flavored-sadness. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd consider making my own, but it's probably one of those projects that only makes sense at near-industrial-scale, and *gestures vaguely at everything*
posted by Mayor West at 6:57 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think this entire thread is putting me off ketchup.
posted by johnxlibris at 6:58 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

i bought a bottle of mushroom ketchup to try a while ago and... forgot about it. gonna go put it on the counter now to remind me next time i'm making something appropriate.
posted by Clowder of bats at 7:00 AM on November 29, 2022

Contemplates the ouroboros implications of dipping ketchup flavoured chips into ketchup.

Yo dawg I heard you like ketchup on your chips so we put ketchup in your chips so you can dip your ketchup chips in

Segmentation Fault
posted by Mayor West at 7:00 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Mmm ketchup! Down with food gatekeeping!

I like Tiptree tomato ketchup, it's much richer and a bit less sweet than Heinz, and judging by the price difference probably contains a great deal more tomato (it certainly looks like it does). I've read claims that there's no better ketchup than Heinz, but this is just plain wrong, at least in the UK market.

Or you can make it yourself, but that shear-thickening behaviour it has coming out of the bottle also makes it bubble very very messily on the hob while you're cooking it so be warned.

Speaking of shear-thickening behaviour - unless you're using one of those abominable squeeze bottles - wiggle the bottle from side to side. The ketchup will flow.
posted by mathw at 7:02 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm more of a catsup person.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:04 AM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]

Very disappointed that the "When Every Ketchup But One Went Extinct." link is not about how there was a big plague in the 1920s that killed all but one substandard species of ketchup trees.

BRB, trademarking "Cavendish Ketchup."

Maybe I'll start a bespoke condiment label. Or you can come see my power-folk band, Cavendish Ketchup Confabulation, opening at the Orpheum
posted by Mayor West at 7:04 AM on November 29, 2022 [7 favorites]

The Dutch curry ketchup is pretty decent if you're looking for alternative ketchups to try. I think there's a couple brands, one starts with a K I think?
posted by some loser at 7:06 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

But why ketchup when instead Sriracha?
posted by kaibutsu at 7:09 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

EC, what’s your preferred breakfast hot dog?

Chicago style. Same for lunch and dinner. Y'all, something about that combination of tomato wedge/dill pickle spear/relish/mustard/chopped onion/sport pepper/celery salt just works.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:09 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Back when I worked in Engineering, a friend from the Company was over in Paris for a Marketing visit. He had lunch in a small place by Sacre Coeur. I think it was a hamburger and fries or something similar and, since there wasn't any on the table he asked for Ketchup. The proprietor laughed a little, "Americans", and got a bottle from the back. He had to dust it off before putting it on the table.
posted by aleph at 7:10 AM on November 29, 2022

Heinz Is Not America’s Best Ketchup

Whew, I went in that link with the automatic rebuttal -- Heinz has a nice spine of vinegar that no-name ketchups sometimes lack -- and discovering that Hunt's is more acidic and it has short-circuited my brain. My taste buds do not remember this, but now I'm going to have to try it. (Also, where I live, Heinz organic has basically supplanted all the regular Heinz ketchup, and organic Heinz is noticeably sweeter than regular.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:13 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

And it's hard to make a health case for ketchup because it's also bad for you!!!

While I wouldn't call it a health food, how much ketchup would you need to eat for it to be a health concern? (Yes, I've seen people basically eating ketchup as a main part of a meal, so I get it that there are people who will indeed eat it to the point of danger.)

I like ketchup on hot dogs, and sometimes with diner-style eggs and hashbrowns. The "small batch" or artisanal ketchups that I've tried were all way too sweet but I'm sure there are great ones out there.

But why ketchup when instead Sriracha?

I mean, they are both good, but they (obviously) taste different and sometimes you want one flavor profile, sometimes you want the other.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:13 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

organic Heinz is noticeably sweeter than regular

I thought my taste buds had just changed or they'd altered the recipe, because last time I grabbed Heinz they only had organic at the store, and I was unpleasantly surprised by how sweet it was.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:16 AM on November 29, 2022

There are times and places where ketchup is good, and those times are fries, grilled cheese sandwiches and occasionally breakfast (when there is hashbrown and egg, or sausage). You don't need it on a hot dog or a burger - mustard is better than ketchup at doing ketchup's job in those circumstances, and if you really want tomato flavour as well, sliced tomato is better than ketchup. But fries? Yes. Ketchup is fantastic on fries, and the better the fries are the better ketchup goes with them.

The weird thing for me about people who dislike ketchup is that they have genuinely awful ideas for replacing it. We just got back from a New Zealand vacation and their preferred condiment is definitely mayonnaise - excuse me, "aioli" because they sprinkle a little bit of garlic on it - and mayo as a replacement for ketchup is just weird because it's just gobs of vaguely sweetened fat. Mayonnaise on fries, a common European practice, is just straight-up unpleasant and anybody endorsing it over ketchup is not the sophisticate they claim to be.
posted by mightygodking at 7:21 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Mayonnaise is fantastic on fries, unlike the devil's condiment, which is sweet, sticky nastiness. This is a hill I will die on.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:24 AM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]

Yeesh, this thread. Ketchup is good, Heinz ketchup is good, look down your nose at it all you want, you're wrong. All these suggestions for ketchup alternatives (like sriracha) can be good, but they're not ketchup.

This is a hill I will die on.

Then die. Mayo is also good on fries, but it's not the same.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:26 AM on November 29, 2022 [13 favorites]

I love ketchup. ❤️ And on my hot dog. And I live in Chicago. Bossy people can shut up about other people's yums.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:26 AM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]

I didn't used to care much for ketchup. When I was in Mali for Peace Corps, at about a year into my service a little convenience store opened next to my house that sold condiments I didn't really see anywhere else. I bought a bottle of ketchup and took it home, realizing I hadn't had it in at least a year. I sat down and ate a little bit with my finger, and couldn't believe how sweet it was. It was probably a combination of many flavors I hadn't experienced in a while.

I took the bottle over to my host mom's house, and we dumped it on a bowl of plain rice and ate it. It was pretty good.
posted by pinothefrog at 7:29 AM on November 29, 2022

Or you can come see my power-folk band, Cavendish Ketchup Confabulation

featuring the Birthday Wieners
posted by elkevelvet at 7:30 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Mayonnaise on fries, a common European practice, is just straight-up unpleasant and anybody endorsing it over ketchup is not the sophisticate they claim to be.

Pistols at dawn Sir.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:30 AM on November 29, 2022 [15 favorites]

if you really want tomato flavour as well, sliced tomato is better than ketchup.

Depends on the time of year. I do not currently have consistent access to tasty tomatoes, so chances are actual tomato will be flavorless, or subtle enough not to stand up to the burger itself. I have a tomato powder than can help, but I don't carry it with me, so doesn't help if it at a restaurant.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:31 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

It is interesting that one of the most common defenses of ketchup is to assume snobbery on the part of people who genuinely don't like the stuff.

I don't care if you eat ketchup, to me it is the devil's condiment. Slather that stuff on your fries as much as you want, just pass me the vinegar and mayo please.
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:32 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Also aioli (which is excellent) is a mayo prepared with pureed garlic in addition to the egg yolk, Dijon and oil, it's not mayo with bits of garlic thrown in it.

And while we're at it, try béarnaise, it's also an excellent condiment for fries.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:33 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

This seems like the place to mention how it's a fuckin travesty ketchup flavored potato chips are not a regular American potato chip flavor.
Goddamn.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:39 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

It is interesting that one of the most common defenses of ketchup is to assume snobbery on the part of people who genuinely don't like the stuff.

Did you even read the Don't Even Think About Putting Ketchup On A Hot Dog link?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:40 AM on November 29, 2022

We usually buy generic ketchup here, because the kid is the only one who eats it, and she doesn't care. But my in-laws buy some kind of fancy, natural ketchup? With a mustache man on the bottle maybe? Anyway, it's gross and runny and tastes like they had an "oops, all allspice!" moment at the factory.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:41 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yes. And?
posted by fimbulvetr at 7:41 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm sure it's all in good fun (in this thread anyhow) but making judgements on a person's character based on the condiment/s they use on a hotdog is surely the height of astuteness
posted by elkevelvet at 7:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

I can assure you that my husband who doesn't like ketchup, mustard or mayonnaise but is gradually learning to tolerate beans and mashed potatoes is no kind of snob.
posted by subdee at 7:45 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

uncleozzy: Is it Sir Kensington's?

I was so disappointed when the local farm-to-table burger chain swapped out Heinz for that. It's alright I guess, but I wouldn't go with it if I had the choice.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:47 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

uncleozzy: Is it Sir Kensington's?

Ah! Yes! Thanks, I hate it!
posted by uncleozzy at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

I mostly dislike Ketchup, however, on dogs ( as someone upthread pointed out) it does a good job disguising the flavor, because hot dogs are fucking disgusting. I'll also take it on burgers when they come that way but if I'm making a burger, no ketchup. For fries I prefer mayo, it just tastes good, or, sometimes I'll dip them in my vanilla shake. Also, eat whatever you like. Life is too short to pay attention to gatekeepers.
posted by evilDoug at 7:55 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Mayonnaise is fantastic on fries, unlike the devil's condiment, which is sweet, sticky nastiness.

This! This is what I'm talking about! Mayonnaise is both sweet and sticky! If you were saying "I don't like ketchup on fries, it's too sweet and sticky, I prefer apple cider vinegar" that would make sense, because they are NOT sweet and sticky!
posted by mightygodking at 7:55 AM on November 29, 2022

This has got to be the same reason why you sometimes do #2 and it turns out there is gas in the pipe rather than non-ideal fluid and it splatters instead of dropping right out, yeah?

The parallel has been noted
posted by flabdablet at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2022

Blessed article headline I needed to hear: Don't Even Think About Putting Ketchup On A Hot Dog
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:01 AM on November 29, 2022

Ketchup is the Marvel Cinematic Universe movie of condiments. It's pretty consistent; it's pretty good; there's a lot of situations where it's about as good as if not better than the other similar options; and it's essentially by design incapable of ever being truly great. It has a reliable floor and a restrictive ceiling. There's no nuance: you absolutely know you're eating ketchup when you're eating ketchup. If you wanted ketchup, you're happy. And they don't put Stan Lee in it anymore.
posted by cortex at 8:02 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

My dad hated ketchup, and at some point started putting salsa on hot dogs, which I found okay.

Ten or so years ago, in a fit of experimentation, having bought a big pack of hot dogs and in need of variety, I tried putting mixed pickle on them, and it basically revived my interest in hot dogs, which I might otherwise have just quit forever.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 8:03 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Mayonnaise fight next? Duke's >>>>>>>>> Hellmann's / Best Foods. If the FPP author prefers Hunt's to Heinz because it's not as sweet, then the Hellmann's needs to go.
posted by emelenjr at 8:05 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Ketchup-out-of-context bothers me - something about the smell if it stuck to clothing or another object while far away from any food it might go on is...more upsetting than discovering a smear of another condiment in those wrong places for some reason?

Otherwise, it's a fine condiment!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:05 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Mayonnaise fight next? Duke's >>>>>>>>> Hellmann's / Best Foods.

My wife who is from D.C./Virginia local has shown me the glory that is Duke's and how it is superior to any other mayo on the market. No fight to be had, just King shit all the way.
posted by Fizz at 8:10 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

This! This is what I'm talking about! Mayonnaise is both sweet and sticky!

I don't know what kind of mayonnaise you use, but the stuff in our fridge lists 0 g of sugar per tablespoon, while our bottle of ketchup (my household is not completely devoid of ketchup eaters) lists 4 g of sugar per tablespoon.

I find mayo creamy rather than sticky.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:11 AM on November 29, 2022

And indeed, while I enjoy mayo on fries, I prefer vinegar. White vinegar, because I'm Canadian.
posted by fimbulvetr at 8:12 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

If my roommates could side with 63% of Brits (mayo) and 56% of Brits (ketchup) on storing condiments at room temperature, there would be an impressive amount of additional space in our fridge.
At work we occasionally blend ketchup seasoning, which means ingredients like oil of clove, oil of pimento leaf and cassia oleoresin, which are heinous to handle.
posted by shenkerism at 8:13 AM on November 29, 2022

Ketchup-out-of-context bothers me

Me too! I like ketchup on dogs, fries, and burgers, although I'm happy with some other condiments there as well. But leftover ketchup on a plate that I have to rinse off before washing? That I find gross. Part of it for me is the vinegar smell, I have a weird relationship with vinegar and vinegar based foods.
posted by mollweide at 8:13 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Mayonnaise should not be sweet. The most popular American brand contains no sweetener. What is sweet is Miracle Whip, the margarine of sandwhich spreads. It's got a lot of HFCS in it.

Tomato ketchups are sweet, it is a fruit sauce afterall. But most American ketchup are too sweet. Now there's several commerical low sugar or no-sugar-added ketchups in the US market that are much better tasting IMHO.

Sriracha is the new ketchup. Also it's gotten much sweeter and less spicy over time, at least the stuff in the US. I swear even the main Huy Fong recipe has changed in the last decade.
posted by Nelson at 8:17 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

But why ketchup when instead Sriracha?

Sriracha mixed with ketchup is good, as is a clove of crushed garlic and some chili garlic sauce
posted by Dr. Twist at 8:18 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

From "When Every Ketchup But One Went Extinct":
But in 1904 he formed “The Poison Squad,” enlisting a group of healthy, young, male volunteers—mostly his colleagues at the Department of Agriculture—to eat all of their meals at work and ingest increasingly large quantities of preservatives. The results read like the last 10 seconds of a modern-day drug commercial: stomach cramps, headaches, sore throat, dizziness, decline in appetite, and loss of weight. Multiple trials stopped when participants became too sick to continue.

absolute madman
posted by shenkerism at 8:19 AM on November 29, 2022

I think we all might need a bottle of Heinz Relax
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:20 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Mayonnaise fight next? Duke's >>>>>>>>> Hellmann's / Best Foods.

Kewpie will change your life.
posted by rodlymight at 8:23 AM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]

We also stan Kewpie in this house. Great tip.
posted by Fizz at 8:25 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I used to hate (and hate on) ketchup, but then I realized it's delicious and I was being a snobby asshole.
posted by slogger at 8:27 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Same. It could be that I'm getting a bit older and my taste-buds are changing or maybe I'm just more open-minded but have gone back to loving ketchup on things after a long break where I only used mustard.
posted by Fizz at 8:28 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

But why ketchup when instead Sriracha?

Because 'spicify everything!!' is already past its prime.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:31 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

You know what's good? Ketchup blended with mayonnaise so that it tastes like the coveted fast food sauces of my childhood. Or, indeed, mustard blended with mayonnaise. Or sriracha blended with mayonnaise. Sriracha with mayonnaise is really good with french fries.

It makes sense that sriracha has gotten less hot - when I first tried it, in about 1995, the cook was a friend who liked death-pepper-melt-your-face-off stuff and served a dish of sauteed tofu coated in sriracha until it was pink, and I basically couldn't eat more than a bite. I used to titrate the sriracha into other dishes and now, while I'm still not into super spicy things, I use a lot more at a time. I think that my palate has changed - I eat noticeably spicier things than many of my friends, for instance, and this was never true in the past - but certainly not enough to go from "sriracha, a terrifying burning" to "sriracha, add some more, you can barely taste it".
posted by Frowner at 8:32 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Because 'spicify everything!!' is already past its prime.

Nobody notified Trader Joe's.
posted by aniola at 8:34 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Ketchup & mustard on pizza is not the horror story you've been led to believe.
I use A-1 sauce on pizza when I'm feeling particularly decadent.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 8:34 AM on November 29, 2022

- Dunking on Chicago-dressed hot dogs is a sad attempt at trying to make a timid palate masquerade as sensible, or something. Games aren't necessarily won by swinging for the rafters every time, but appreciate those who can and do.

- Ketchup is perfect on fresh, hot McDonald's fries.

- Vincent: I don't know, I didn't go in a Burger King, You know what they put on French fries in Holland instead of ketchup?.
Jules: What?
Vincent: Mayonnaise.
Jules: [makes a grossed out face] Goddamn.
Vincent: [chuckles] I seen them do it, man, they fucking drown them in that shit.
Jules: [grossed out] Yuck.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:42 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Ketchup & mustard on pizza is not the horror story you've been led to believe.

Trenton, New Jersey, has a local pizza variant called tomato pie, with a thin crust, light cheese, and crushed tomatoes. There's a subvariant that has mustard between the crust and the cheese.
posted by mollweide at 8:45 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Searches comments for the former presidential actor....^ throws ketchup on walls; flounces out of thread...
posted by mightshould at 8:50 AM on November 29, 2022

Ketchup Is the Absolute Worst Condiment

right up there with pineapple on pizza and pre-sliced processed cheese slipped randomly into pretty much any sandwich. But ketchup, of course, has a ubiquity of application that trounces all challengers, so yes, the Hitler of condiments.
posted by philip-random at 8:54 AM on November 29, 2022

Mayonnaise should not be sweet. The most popular American brand [link to Hellmans] contains no sweetener.

Wrong. The bottle of Hellmans in my fridge lists sugar as an ingredient. Heinz real mayo lists corn syrup. Mayo is generally sweet, though certainly less sweet than ketchup. If you go to the link, the sugar in Hellmans is sugar cane or sugar beets.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:59 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I can't believe someone just Godwined a ketchup post.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:59 AM on November 29, 2022 [19 favorites]

If there's space for anything besides Global North yuck-yumming, I had to archive.ph to get the Surprising Asianness story to load. More on ketchup origins:

“Ketchups in England date back at least to 1727, when Eliza Smith gave a recipe for ketchup made from anchovies, shallots, white wine vinegar, two kinds of white wine, cloves, ginger, nutmeg, mace, whole peppercorns and lemon peel,”
...
The connection to Asia comes through another old recipe from 1732 titled Ketchup in Paste, which referenced “Bencoulin in the East Indies” as its origin. The British had a trading post in Bengkulu on Sumatra, Indonesia, in the 1690s and historians posit that this is how the word “ketchup” first entered the English language.
...
it is believed that ketchup is an archaic word for fish sauce in the Hokkien dialect, a fact which is supported by a Hokkien to English dictionary compiled by missionaries in 1873 that gives pronunciations in various subdialects as kôe-chiap in Quanzhou and kê-chiap in Zhangzhou.
...
In the 17th and 18th centuries, fish sauce from Vietnam or Cambodia was brought up the southeastern coast of China by sea traders. These same Hokkien traders also took the sauce to Indonesia.

(It's SCMP so they're editorially required to call Hokkien a dialect instead of a language.)
posted by away for regrooving at 9:01 AM on November 29, 2022 [5 favorites]

Not tomato-based but ketsap manis (now that we’ve invoked SE Asia) is a great condiment for things like fried rice or roast chicken. But TBH I typically compound it with other things, for example Sriracha.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 9:06 AM on November 29, 2022

Dang. History and Hitler.


Anyway. Another Chicagolander who loves the loud talk about a ‘proper dog’. ITS FUN. TO BE DUMB ABOUT SILLY THINGS. I have yet to witness anyone actually care about putting ketchup on your food.

I don’t eat hot dogs cause ewwww, but there is now wrong way for you to eat em. Just cause there’s no right way for me, you can totally eat that filth, I’m just going to ask you turn on the exhaust fan cause they smell like vomit and broken dreams to me. Yes even the veggie ones.
posted by zenon at 9:07 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Ketchup Is the Absolute Worst Condiment

It's like when they pick the worst movie or worst album or whatever--fame and popularity are part of the calculus.

There are a lot of condiments worse than ketchup, like crappy private-label hot sauces that are 'flavored' with capsaicin extract and have names that make them sound like grindcore albums, Extreme Ass Torture and shit (I love a good hot sauce and regularly make my own, but these products are not good hot sauces--they're more like gag gifts).

But nothing is as ubiquitous as ketchup.
posted by box at 9:08 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Many, many years ago, junior high, we had an hour to kill after school before honor band practice. We headed over to a local burger joint. We all ordered fries. And grabbed lots of ketchup packets. This one guy headed to the counter and came back with a bunch of those single serve packets of mayo and of relish. Huh? We all said. He said we should try this. He started tearing the packages and mixing it all together in a cup. He noted that people in Europe do this. So we hesitatingly tried it. The voices of the angels rang out! It was like another world had been revealed, maybe Europe to 14 year old suburban kids in the Bay Area, I don’t know, but this was definitely better. And like all 14 year olds, I and probably everybody there, except for that one guy, returned to the ketchup habit soon after.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:12 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Red Gold has started making Rooster Sriracha mashup that I prefer (no HFCS also). I can make my own mix, but these guys seem to have got the proportions right for my taste.

I had Toum for the first time at a middle eastern place and it is fantastic. Much better than Mayo or Aioli.

And of course, Duke's >>>>>> anything else like Hellman's or Kraft etc. I think they add a bit more Turmeric that makes it tastier.

For ketchup itself, Aldi's Organic brand or Heinz Simply is my preference.

About the no ketchup on Chicago Style dogs, it could be because it is already loaded with sweetness from the green relish, so ketchup is overkill.
posted by indianbadger1 at 9:12 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Previously and previouserly on banana ketchup and its inventor Maria Orosa: brilliant food scientist, wartime nutrient smuggler, killed by the American bombing of Manila.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:17 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

To add:

Finally! MIT scientist helps you get all the ketchup out of the bottle
posted by indianbadger1 at 9:18 AM on November 29, 2022

I would literally rather you not have a working toilet in your house than try to feed me any ketchup other than Heinz.

--Jason Isbell
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yikes, I was wrong when I said The most popular American brand contains no sweetener. Thanks for the correction. I was referring to Hellman's / Best Foods mayo. In fact that's the only major brand that does contain sugar. Not very much, the nutrition label says 0g of carbs / 13g of mayo, but there is some in the ingredients list.

Surprisingly Duke's has no sugar at all, I would have guessed it had some based on it being Southern. Kewpie does not list any sugar or HFCS in its label, either. (Also a surprise; it tastes a little sweet to me!)

Apologies for the mayo derail but as folks said above, it is definitely the superior condiment for french fries. You need to add more fat to the potatoes fried in fat.
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Insert Clever Name Here you might enjoy kecap pedas. It's literally just shallot and chili in kecap manis, and it's good.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:22 AM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

Duke's is the only mayonnaise.

Everything else is just a sad compromise.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:23 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

I like to dip my fries in remoulade, a crazy mystery sauce that I don't understand!
posted by gordie at 9:25 AM on November 29, 2022

Also if you want to try making your own old British-American ketchups: mushroom, black walnut.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:29 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Thanks for sharing that recipe away for regrooving. That's my go to mix with over the counter ketchup to heighten it and elevate it to another flavour level.
posted by Fizz at 9:32 AM on November 29, 2022

Meanwhile, in England: Man outraged at Pizza Hut’s ‘sexual’ ketchup, pranked with sauce left at his door.
posted by Wordshore at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

This one guy headed to the counter and came back with a bunch of those single serve packets of mayo and of relish. Huh? We all said. He said we should try this. He started tearing the packages and mixing it all together in a cup. He noted that people in Europe do this. So we hesitatingly tried it. The voices of the angels rang out! It was like another world had been revealed, maybe Europe to 14 year old suburban kids in the Bay Area, I don’t know, but this was definitely better.

That's ad-hoc fry sauce, which is a glorious condiment (much superior to ketchup) that is (in addition to parts of Europe) common in the inter-mountain west but uncommon elsewhere in the US.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:35 AM on November 29, 2022

I don't eat hot dogs so I have no horse in that race but I do like a bit of ketchup with a fry but only to dip. Spreading it all over? Too messy for me. And in our household ketchup usually gets doctored at the table with a Sriracha or hot sauce. We also offer Bulldog sauce and mayonnaise as potential coatings. The other application & use of standard ketchup in my culture though that I refuse to do, unlike a lot of Eastern French Canadians (Western ones seem to prefer gravy), is to put it on my meat pie. Though I will use the far superior Fruit Ketchup, which is kissing cousin to the Italian Mostarda di frutta and English style chutney.

White vinegar, because I'm Canadian.
I'm there for you fellow Canadian but... because of Wordshore, I discovered the joys of Henderson's Relish and have been using that on my fries with no regrets.

And like rozcakj above I don't buy Heinz anymore. How they dealt with their operations in Canada was fairly disgraceful.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:38 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Ketchup blended with mayonnaise so that it tastes like the coveted fast food sauces of my childhood.

We call this "pink sauce" at our house and it is legit. I suppose it's technically called fry sauce. Or Mayochup if you're nasty.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:46 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I understand that other people find American food unbearably sweet, and ketchup is probably one of the main reasons.

Filipino banana ketchup would like a word.

(I like banana ketchup, but it's generally MUCH sweeter than tomato ketchup and Filipino cuisine is often much sweeter than people unfamiliar with it would expect.)
posted by asnider at 9:52 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Hold the ketchup, pass the sriracha.
posted by thoughtful_jester at 9:53 AM on November 29, 2022

For anyone who wants a ketchup that is deeply umami, something between tomato paste and ketchup, I am ruined for all other ketchups* by Traina Sundried Tomato Ketchup. They also make a sriracha ketchup I haven't tried.

*Except Whataburger, which I am many states away from, but also has that extra-tomatoey taste I like.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 AM on November 29, 2022

In the early- to mid-1800s, Americans fermented tomato ketchup from a variety of home recipes. The first recorded recipe for a home-fermented tomato catsup was published in 1810, a descendant of British imitations of Asian “cat-sup,” or fermented fish sauce, that the British encountered on colonial voyages. Tomato catsup, which cooks made with ingredients such as apples and anchovies in addition to tomatoes, caught on quickly due to its bright flavor, which livened up an otherwise monotonous American diet. And because it was fermented, it boasted a shelf life of one to seven years.

posted by aniola at 10:06 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I don't put ketchup on Chicago-style hotdogs, but my standard toppings for an ordinary hotdog are ketchup, brown mustard, sweet pickle relish, and chopped onions.

I generally only put ketchup on hamburgers, hotdogs, fries, and very occasionally on scrambled eggs. My daughter is one of those people who puts ketchup on her ketchup.

I agreee with the author of the Takeout article that Hunt's ketchup is given short shrift. It is noticeably less sweet and more vinegary than Heinz and it is great on a burger. I like Heinz best on french fries.
posted by briank at 10:18 AM on November 29, 2022

Chopped (sweet) onions have become my second-condiment after ketchup. I discovered how good they are after someone ketchup-shamed me at a work event and I sheepishly put a spoonful of those delicious little cubes on my hot dog to stop the torment.

In conclusion, ketchup shaming is still wrong and you shouldn't do it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:32 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Fortunately, no matter what opinion is expressed in this thread, I can happily continue putting a mixture of Heinz ketchup and Crystal hot sauce on burgers, french fries, home fries, and occasionally softly scrambled eggs. Just to horrify some, my favorite recipe for making pad thai at home calls for a blurp of ketchup in the sauce (it's the sweet to tamarind's sour and fish sauce's salt in the mix).
posted by aught at 10:48 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I grew up in Ohio; we ate ketchup on scrambled eggs, mac-n-cheese, hash browns, and on hot dogs. I grew up, moved to Maine and now I put salsa on things, esp. fried potatoes, and it is So Good.

I like jello, too, but not with ketchup. /high-fives The Coug
posted by theora55 at 10:52 AM on November 29, 2022

My favorite use for ketchup as a condiment and not a fry dipping sauce is a meatloaf sandwich on toast. For my occasional hot dog consumption, I really like the combo of Woeber's hot and spicy mustard, kraut, and this Georgia Vidalia onion hot sauce (not very hot, really, just sweet, onion, and tangy with a light kick.)
posted by indexy at 11:02 AM on November 29, 2022

I grew up on Heinz and didn't like Hunt's as a kid because it's too sweet. I'm sure the recipe has changed in the last *koff* years but what I like now is not Heinz organic but (apologies to those who got screwed by Heinz) Heinz No-Added-Sugar. Which says a lot about US food product right there.

My feeling about ketchup, like my feeling about most food, is more for me if you don't like what I like and more for you if you like something I don't.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 11:07 AM on November 29, 2022

I don't like ketchup. Even the smell puts me off. Even cooking with it. Same, but more so, with mustard.

But the truth is, I don't like any condiments. Any. I can handle salsa as a dip, but otherwise no to dips. I can sort of handle a tiny bit of basalmic and oil on tomato salad, but otherwise no salad dressings.

Some of it possibly traces back to the "Don't drown your food" PSA from when I was a kid, but otherwise I just don't get it. We probably have all of them in stock because my other family members are "normal" (though they're Miracle Whip people when it comes to mayo - is that acceptable? No idea), but if it were up to me, I'd have a lot more room in the fridge doors.

Also I eat my hot dogs without a bun. Don't @ me.
posted by Mchelly at 11:13 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

I loved ketchup so much that when I was 10 or 11 my parents gave me a big industrial sized can all wrapped up under the christmas tree. For some reason it set me into tears, probably because they were mean about it. It was like finding a lump of coal in your stocking. Too much ketchup becomes a chore.
posted by Catblack at 11:15 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

My husband douses his burgers (PLAIN NO CHEESE) in ketchup. I buy the Simply Heinz, and go through 2 bottles a month in the summer. Ketchup is also used to dip fries, pizza crusts, and chicken tenders per him.

I cannot abide ketchup on my hot dogs (mustard only since I was maybe 15) and chicken tenders (honey mustard there).
posted by tlwright at 11:22 AM on November 29, 2022

I used to frequent a bar/grill with Columbian owners, and they turned me on to pink sauce (ketchup/mayo) on split and grilled hot dogs, covered in lots of toppings. Apparently Heinz sells the pink sauce in bottles now, and it has already gone viral on TikTok but is now sus, or something.
posted by credulous at 11:41 AM on November 29, 2022

Look, if I'm eating a Chicago or other adult style hotdog, I'll take it however it's traditionally made. I'm sure these culinary traditions persist for a reason -- namely, that they are delicious.

But if it's in the middle of a busy day and I have 5 minutes between meetings to get some calories in me and microwaving a hotdog is all I can manage in those 5 minutes -- it's going to be doused in ketchup. The combination is sweet, savory, and tangy and, as pointed out upthread, the ketchup covers up the overpowering hotdog-ness of the bare hotdog. Sometimes you don't have time to do it the "right way" and you settle for what works in the moment
posted by treepour at 11:43 AM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

My spouse was working at One Sixty Blue, the now-gone fine dining restaurant that was co-owned by Michael Jordan (who--side note--would not accept a free meal at his own restaurant and tipped generously). A then-current player for the Chicago Bulls came to dinner with his girlfriend. He ordered a well-done steak. The chef refused. The young athlete said that was fine, but could he have some ketchup for his steak. The chef walked out from the kitchen, directly to the young man's table and said, in his heavy French accent, "Non!" and then walked back.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:45 AM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

If you don’t eat ketchup, what do you put on your omurice??
posted by mbrubeck at 11:59 AM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Ketchup blended with mayonnaise so that it tastes like the coveted fast food sauces of my childhood. Or, indeed, mustard blended with mayonnaise. Or sriracha blended with mayonnaise. Sriracha with mayonnaise is really good with french fries.

This is the way. Condiments (and relishes) are really best thought of as elements, not a finished product.

Like, ketchup + mayo + hot sauce + pickle relish = delicious hamburger sauce
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:03 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Glad to see I'm not the only ketchup hater around here. It's a vile substance that taste of hatred. There are so many better condiments: hot sauce, mustard, barbecue sauce (even ketchup-based bbq sauces have more flavor and less awful sweetness), almost anything is better.

I'm not a fan of mayonnaise, but I've at least reached a detente with it where I can eat it in small amounts on a sandwich if that's what I have to do. Ketchup? If it makes contact with anything on my plate, that item is ruined.
posted by SansPoint at 12:14 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

the overpowering hotdog-ness of the bare hotdog

This is starting to make sense now. Ketchup is for people who don't like hot dogs.
posted by zamboni at 12:15 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

::Enters thread. Looks around::

::Backs slowly out of thread::

Naw. Hell naw. Not today.
posted by Splunge at 12:25 PM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]

I don't feel strongly enough about ketchup to comment in this thread.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:26 PM on November 29, 2022 [4 favorites]

I like ketchup. But...the bottles/squeeze tubes/ etc are pure hell.
Why does "catsup" have to come in a stupid bottle like that? What is exactly the point? It obviously hardly works. Look how many suggestions there are about "how to get ketchup out of a bottle?" Why do we put up with it?
Mayo comes in a jar. Mustard: jar. Jams? Jar. Jelly? Jar. All the other condiments mentioned in this thread? Jars.

Why doesn't ketchup come in a jar? Why does this one indispensable condiment have to be so (blank blank blank) difficult to dispense?
After my last disaster with one of the giant Costco bottles of "catsup" I came to a major decision: after my medium sized jar of strawberry jam is done, I'm cleaning the jar out.....and filling it with ketchup. I will use a spoon or a knife or whatever little scooper I have to SPREAD, or DOLLOP, or PILE my ketchup in a precise, civilized way, exactly where I want it to go. No mess, no fuss.
Ketchup should come in jars.
And, don't get me started on idiotic olive oil bottles. I understand the color of the bottle, etc....but why in hell do they all have to be taller than any of my kitchen cabinets? Why the hell do I have to deal with those small olive oil dispensers? Hmmmm, you know, a ketchup bottle might be a good substitute! Oh, wait......
posted by pthomas745 at 12:30 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Heinz ketchup USA ingredients;

TOMATO CONCENTRATE FROM RED RIPE TOMATOES, DISTILLED VINEGAR, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, CORN SYRUP, SALT, SPICE, ONION POWDER, NATURAL FLAVORING.

Heinz ketchup Canada ingredients;

Tomato Paste (Made From Fresh Ripe Tomatoes), Liquid Sugar, White Vinegar, Salt, Onion Powder, Spices
posted by yyz at 12:58 PM on November 29, 2022

the overpowering hotdog-ness of the bare hotdog

This is starting to make sense now. Ketchup is for people who don't like hot dogs.

When was the last time you sat down to enjoy a bare hotdog with no condiments/etc?
posted by treepour at 12:59 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

They sell the latter recipe as "Simply Heinz" in the US, yyz. That's what I use.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:00 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Delish: Woman Who Thought She Had Crohn's Disease Had Heinz Packets In Her Intestine
posted by Wordshore at 1:06 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don't think I've ever seen Simply Ketchup in Canada.,DOT
That's probably why. No need.
posted by yyz at 1:17 PM on November 29, 2022

But nothing is as ubiquitous as ketchup.

As someone who hates mayo, I can assure you that it's not.
posted by Candleman at 1:21 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

A-1 sauce is largely a raisin-based construct.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

There is so much to unpack in this post and the comments. So I'll follow a time-honored MeFi tradition and comment without reading TFAs. (But I did read all the comments, and I will read the articles when I have struggled through a whole avalanche of very urgent problems that I am avoiding by writing this comment. Thanks for inspiring a great discussion).

Once a year I eat a Copenhagen style hotdog, because the smell carries madeleine-like memories, and every time I swear never to do it again. I don't relive going with dad to the hotdog stand when I was four, as I hope, I feel sick. Right now it is still recent enough that there must be at least half a year to my next attempt, I can still feel the heartburn. But the condiments are strong mustard, ketchup, fried onions, raw onions and pickled cucumber, and that is good.

Ketchup is good for many things. In its basic form, I eat it with my favorite hash: potato and roast lamb, with a fried egg on top, and apart from ketchup also Worcester sauce and pickled beets.

But more than that, I use it in gravies. When my grandmother lived, she made the best brown pan gravy humanity has ever known. It could not ever be surpassed and I am sorry you never had the chance to taste it. Since I was a teenager, I tried to get her to tell me how to make it, but everyone was sent out of the kitchen during the very secret alchemical process. One day, I managed to invent an excuse to sneak in at the decisive moment, and it turned out that the secret ingredient is ketchup. This makes a lot of sense. A classic sauce Espagnol uses tomatoes cooked down to a marmalade, which is also sweet and sticky, and it uses wine, that has the acid. A great pan gravy like my grandmother's was a quick and dirty variant of the Espagnol. She used ketchup as seasoning in a number of other gravies, which were all world class, if not at the dreamy, ambrosial level of the brown version. I am working on reaching her level of mastery before I die, but who knows.

Where I disagreed with her was on the ketchup-mayo-paprika cocktail sauce mix. I won't condemn anyone for eating it, but I won't eat it.

Finally, the whole snobbery thing is so random. When my family first moved to Belgium, they were shocked by the fact that Belgians have mayo with their fries. It seemed very low-class to them and they were sure the mayo contributed to what they felt was the ill heath of working class Belgians in mining towns. And as stated by someone above, French and Belgian people felt the same about ketchup eating Brits and Americans. As an angry teen who spoke French before the others for somewhat obscure reasons, I mostly enjoyed the irony, but to this day, I prefer mayo on my frites. Mayo made with olive or sunflower oil, egg yolks, a bit of lemon or vinegar, mustard and salt and pepper. No sugar. Aioli is a welcome alternative, as is Bearnaise. But no ketchup for me.
posted by mumimor at 1:57 PM on November 29, 2022 [10 favorites]

the secret ingredient is ketchup.

*inhales*
AND GIVE MY LOVE TO ANGUS AND TO FRANK AND DOLLY

Sorry, it's an Australian reflex.
posted by zamboni at 2:26 PM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

I am on a quest to find my ideal version of each condiment. Simply Heinz is our ketchup, Duke's is our mayo, Koop's is our yellow mustard, although we also keep Silver Spring Beer & Brat and about six other specialty mustards on hand, including a few ones from Kozlik's in Toronto. There are maybe three bbq sauces that work for me, all of which have to be shipped from Memphis.

I'm just now sorting through soy sauces and fish sauces. So far, I'm on Kikkoman Low-Sodium, which is rich, but less salty, obviously, and I like that. I am hopelessly lost finding a decent tahini. And I haven't strayed beyond "Angry Lady" spicy chili crisp, as we call that one ubiquitous brand.

This is all a roundabout way of saying whether you love ketchup and have opinions or hate it and won't allow it in your home, I understand about being an obsessive when it comes to condiments.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:28 PM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

There's certainly a lot to dislike about Garrison Keillor, but one thing I miss about the old Prairie Home Companion radio show is the Ketchup Advisory Board skits. It was always fun to see the various twisted paths a skit could take from "These are the good years for me and Barb" to "Are you getting enough ketchup? Ketchup contains natural mellowing agents that help a person..."
"Ketchup. For the good times."
"Ketchup...ketchup..."
posted by indexy at 2:59 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

I was in Southern Virginia once and had barbeque with coleslaw. The coleslaw was made with "red sauce", which turned out to be mayonnaise with catsup. Has anyone else heard of it? Is it Virginian? Or North Carolinian? Would eat it again.
posted by acrasis at 3:50 PM on November 29, 2022

Delish: Woman Who Thought She Had Crohn's Disease Had Heinz Packets In Her Intestine
posted by Wordshore

The headline is so sensational compared to the article.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:17 PM on November 29, 2022

Every time I serve ketchup to my 3 year olds AS A CONDIMENT, usually to vegan nugs (memail me to discuss your faves!) they start scooping at it with their spoons. Once finished, they yell, "KETCHUP, KETCHUP!" (note no "please") and expect more, because they think ketchup is a side dish.
What the fuck.
My children are Reaganites.
posted by atomicstone at 4:57 PM on November 29, 2022 [9 favorites]

I am intrigued by the ketchup inclusive pan-gravy, I bet it is amazing.
I remember being a teenager and being invited to a BBQ at my dad's friend's house. Pretty normal BBQ but when I asked for ketchup for my hot dog I got actual cringes and a chuckle from the hosts. Like, "ha ha, are you serious? . . . no, we don't have any ketchup in our house." Like sure, it was 1991 and they were High Yuppies that collected art, but it was fucking Denver.
I don't love ketchup, but having experienced true anti-ketchup scorn at a formative age I will never judge someone's use of ketchup. Even now, living in Mexico where the main use of ketchup is as a condiment for pizza, I remain zen.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 5:14 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

When I eat a hot dog (which I don't actually do much these days), sometimes I eat it with ketchup. Sometimes just with mustard. Sometimes mustard and relish. Sometimes chopped onion and ketchup. Sometimes ketchup and mustard and relish. Sometimes cheese and mustard and onions. Sometimes ketchup and mustard and chili sauce.

You get the point. Limiting the way you eat something--like saying it should ONLY be eaten with mustard and nothing else--isn't something I understand that well. Variety is the real spice.
posted by zardoz at 5:18 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

Ha. "ketchup inclusive pan-gravy" is a username that should be auctioned off.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:19 PM on November 29, 2022 [3 favorites]

Would it help anybody's sensibilities to hear that ketchup is basically sauce tomate (one of Escoffier's five mother sauces (as is mayonnaise)), arguably enhanced with a gastrique (a balanced mixture of vinegar and caramelized sugar)?

Also, I'd be OK with Chicago hot dogs, but I guess hyper-opinionated bullshit is not the tastiest of condiments? Also, seriously, what's up with the radioactive pickles.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 5:20 PM on November 29, 2022 [1 favorite]

We don't know about the atomic pickle relish, either. It's all food coloring, the history is murky and both Fluky's and Superdawg claim to have introduced it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 5:33 PM on November 29, 2022 [2 favorites]

Best Ketchup Ever
posted by Ideefixe at 5:48 PM on November 29, 2022

154 comments already? I’m never going to catch up.
posted by skyscraper at 6:49 PM on November 29, 2022 [6 favorites]

Obviously you haven't mustered up the courage to tackle it with relish.

Tom replied saucily
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:53 PM on November 29, 2022 [8 favorites]

Did I just read that there are large numbers of people who don't refrigerate their mayonnaise?
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 5:47 AM on November 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

From today's Guardian:

Homemade tomato ketchup by Felicity Cloake.

Prep 15 min
Cook 1 hr
Makes 2 jars/bottles
Keep 3 months

2kg tomatoes
2 banana shallots
4 garlic cloves
8 tbsp soft dark brown sugar
8 tbsp cider vinegar
2-4 dried chillies

1 Roast the tomatoes for the ketchup

For the ketchup, heat the oven to 180C (160C fan)/350F/gas 4. Arrange the tomatoes on a lightly greased baking sheet and bake for about 30-40 minutes, until very soft and beginning to collapse. (I like to use plum tomatoes, but ketchup is a great use for any slightly disappointing winter tomato.)

2 Sieve the tomatoes

Push the roast tomatoes through a sieve into a large saucepan, regularly scraping the underside of the sieve to speed things up and working hard to ensure you get as much of the flesh through as possible – by the time you’re done, you should be left with just papery skin and seeds in the sieve, which you can now scrape out and discard.

3 Add the alliums, chillies, sugar and vinegar

Peel the shallots and garlic, and lightly crush both by squashing them with the flat of a large knife. Add these to the tomato pan along with the sugar, vinegar and chillies – I use four, but if you’re less keen on heat, or using very intense varieties, you may wish to halve the amount.

4 Cook until thick, then season and jar

Bring to a boil, then turn down the heat and simmer, stirring regularly, for about 20-25 minutes, until thick. Take off the heat, leave to cool a little, then scoop out and discard the solid elements and stir in salt and any other seasonings you fancy (ground allspice or cumin and coriander, for example, or garam masala) to taste. Store in sterilised jars, preferably in the fridge, where it should keep for up to three months.
posted by Wordshore at 7:03 AM on November 30, 2022 [3 favorites]

Sorry, it's an Australian reflex.

Thanks for that, zamboni, it was very moving.
posted by mumimor at 8:09 AM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

MetaFilter: is largely a raisin-based construct.
posted by Splunge at 10:47 AM on November 30, 2022

Sometimes when I have a meal that has both garlic bread and ketchup in it, I like to dip my garlic bread in the ketchup. Just a little bit somehow enhances the garlic bread. *go ahead and fight me!*
posted by hydra77 at 10:53 AM on November 30, 2022

Banana shallots
I did not know these were a cross between real shallots and onions, but it explains why I fucking hate dealing with some "shallots" and love these ones (from a preparation perspective. I notice no difference taste-wise in the recipes I make). What I will now call "real shallots" are a real pain in the ass.
posted by atomicstone at 12:48 PM on November 30, 2022

What's the difference? I've never encountered (or even heard of) "banana shallots" before.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:51 PM on November 30, 2022

Did I just read that there are large numbers of people who don't refrigerate their mayonnaise?

I, too, was terrified upon reading that. I knew it was shelf stable prior to being opened, but...

Apparently, though, store-bought mayo is acidic enough to be safely left in the pantry. Refrigerating it will extend its shelf life and better maintain its freshness/flavour, but it's not strictly necessary.

Home-made mayo is a different story, however, since it is typically far less acidic so you're essentially just leaving raw egg out at room temperature: not a great idea.
posted by asnider at 12:55 PM on November 30, 2022 [1 favorite]

Anybody remember when ketchup was trying to emphasize its health benefits due to its lycopene content? Eat more ketchup - get yourself some lycopene!

Then science decided lycopene wasn't a 'super food', and they took all that off the bottle. Fun times.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:12 PM on November 30, 2022

What's the difference? I've never encountered (or even heard of) "banana shallots" before.

Banana shallots are shallots that are long, and normally don't have all those annoying multiple bulbs in them. They taste like shallots, so no harm is done there. I prefer them to normal yellow onions in a lot of dishes.
posted by mumimor at 1:37 PM on November 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

Banana Shallots (AKA echalions or chicken leg shallots) vs regular shallots. Echalions are much easier to peel compared to a shallot. The smaller the echalion is the closer in flavour to a shallot it is but as they get bigger they are more "onion-y".
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:55 PM on November 30, 2022 [2 favorites]

I accidentally got some ketchup in my eye. Now I have perfect heinzsight.

Heinzsight is 57/57.
posted by Kabanos at 8:33 PM on November 30, 2022 [6 favorites]

Are you storing your condiments correctly?
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:44 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]