Din Tai Fung Is Causing Drama in Los Angeles

March 3, 2023 11:42 PM

The Great LA Dumpling Drama - "Last August, moments after news of the Din Tai Fung move broke, the man who runs the Americana at Brand Memes Twitter account was out to breakfast with his mother-in-law when his phone began buzzing."

Din Tai Fung is a new kind of tenant for the Galleria, where the only other restaurant with a full-service dining room is a Red Robin. While high-end, destination dining within malls is not particularly new (indeed, Isselhardt rattled off the names of half a dozen other fancy restaurant tenants at other mall properties of Brookfield’s), a restaurant like Din Tai Fung in a mall like the Galleria is different, I think, because the Galleria is different — certainly different from the Americana. But also representative of a whole previous era of malls and of an older, more utopian philosophy of what malls might be. And, more to the point, who they might be for.

That Ray Bradbury essay that inspired the Galleria’s design is about the novelist’s great hope for shopping malls and how they could solve the ongoing problem of centerlessness in Los Angeles, his hometown. Bradbury wrote that these spaces could act like contained, miniaturized downtowns, full of plazas and people. Malls, he wrote, are meant for everyone — everyone needed “somewhere to go,” and malls could be that somewhere. But Bradbury had an ironic blind spot for the guy who wrote Fahrenheit 451. Malls are for the public only up to a line, which is drawn by the mall’s owner. When Rick Caruso was campaigning for mayor, his company denied protestors permission to hold small-scale marches against his candidacy at the company’s highest grossing property, the Grove, another outdoor shopping mall that has, in some years, pulled in more visitors than even Disneyland. And even when visitors aren’t explicitly excluded, there are subtler ways that malls signal who they are for, simply by what is affordable, or not; by whether the parking is free, or not.

There was something undeniably democratic about the Galleria... it reminded me of a line in Alexandra Lange’s essential history of malls, Meet Me by the Fountain — that “people love to be in public with other people” and that this “is the core of the mall’s strength, and the essence of its ongoing utility.”

My favorite space? It was the food court — a place of some special historical importance, as it is where the very first Panda Express opened, in 1983. It was also just a crazy hubbub of office workers out on their lunch breaks, families out shopping, packs of teenagers out doing mysterious teenage things. I spent one lunch watching as two young military recruiters egged each other on to approach the various packs of teens and give them their pitch. Great human drama, all of it, just there for my viewing pleasure. And the parking was free.

Recently, after many visits to both the Galleria and the Americana, I called up Clara Irazábal, the director of the Urban Studies and Planning Program at the University of Maryland. Irazábal had lived in LA and written a paper I’d encountered, comparing malls in Hong Kong with those in Los Angeles. Irazábal had also in her long career considered urban spaces in Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Trinidad and Tobago, and her native Venezuela, as well as all over the U.S. I wanted to talk to her about how odd it was to find a far more vibrant, lively, city-like scene in the enclosed and unhip food court of the much older mall, and not in the open-air mall across the street that was, after all, meant to look like a fantasy vision of Main Street in small-town America in the early 20th century.

also btw...
-Can the American Mall Survive?
-Ray Bradbury: The Small-Town Plaza: What Life Is All About
-Ray Bradbury: L.A.'s future is up in the air: "The answer to all this is the monorail."*
-"The late-twentieth-century United States doesn't make sense without the mall"
-Entertainment-Retail Centers in Hong Kong and Los Angeles: Trends and Lessons (pdf)

more Mall Food Madness (previously)

• All the Mall Food Smells, Ranked - "Strip away any nostalgic feelings about mall food, and what you're left with is just... an overwhelming collection of scents. Here, we rank them."[1]
• Empire of Orange Chicken - "A look at the sweet, sticky success of Panda Express, the Chinese American sensation that revolutionized the mall food court."
• Gorillas (and Volcano Brownies) in the Mist - "On why we're still obsessed with the Rainforest Cafe, and why keeping it alive — and weird — is more important than we think.
• If You Give a Woman a Cookie - "Debbi Fields, the founder of Mrs. Fields, has been called both a 'feminist American dream' and a 'good-looking front' for a multimillion-dollar brand. The reality is somewhere in between.
• Pretzels Make Perfect - "When it comes to the ideal mall snack, there's no beating the humble, buttery, salty, puffy, endlessly portable pretzel."
• The Holdout - "The very last restaurant in NYC's once-bustling East Broadway Mall is hanging on, one tray of dumplings at a time."
• My Sweet, Sour Gateway Drug - "Before there was Flamin' Hot everything, there was the chuchería, or candy stand, the champion of every Mexican mall."
• The Ultimate Mall Food Eating Guide - "Where to eat at the most delicious malls across America, from Atlanta's Plaza Fiesta to to Minneapolis's Mall of America."

posted by kliuless (35 comments total)

This is primp Metafilter: a deep dive on an oddly specific subculture I could never jave known about before. Thank you!
posted by billjings at 1:41 AM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

My tiny Bradbury experince(s) feels vaguely relevant here.
posted by atomicstone at 2:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

From the first link:

And I realized, as I was going on about how invigorating it was to see this busy mix ... in what is so often a lonely and isolating place, that I’d got the Galleria all wrong. It wasn’t this weird, empty wasteland unworthy of an extraordinary dumpling shop. And it wasn’t that no one ever went there. It’s that I never went there.

I am going to take this as further reminder and encouragement to explore places in my own city that are off my personal map, places that no one in my social circle recommends or inhabits.
posted by brainwane at 3:24 AM on March 4, 2023 [13 favorites]

I know the purpose of this isn’t to make me want to go to Din Tai Fung but dammit the last time I went to one was 2018 and now I want a plate of string beans and multiple types of dumplings to share. Will happily go to whichever mall has it next time I’m within a hour of the location.
posted by lepus at 4:50 AM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

Turns out Din Tai Fung can be a dangerous initialism. Like lepus, I haven't been for a few years and now I very much want much better dumplings than I have in the house...
posted by terretu at 6:14 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

This is a Great Eater Article, and a great MeFi post.
And I am very happy for the Galleria.

The Glendale galleria had actually wanted the land the Americana at Brand is on and was ready to pay a pretty penny. Instead the city of Glendale literally gave the land to Rick Curuso along with a bunch of tax breaks because they wanted a fancy fountain and that “grove-like” experience that would “elevated”

By all accounts the Brand is a nice shopping center and is doing well, but I’m curious if the city will ever break even vs an expanded Galleria.
posted by CostcoCultist at 6:43 AM on March 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

… as it is where the very first Panda Express opened, in 1983.

And, they still don’t serve panda!
posted by Thorzdad at 6:45 AM on March 4, 2023 [12 favorites]

Din Tai Fung rules
Rick Curuso fucking sucks.
If you’re by the mall and the line for Din Tai Fung is too long and Ramen will suffice R101 Ramen a block south is very good.
posted by Uncle at 6:53 AM on March 4, 2023 [7 favorites]

There is soooo much amazing food in that area.

Porto's is not too far down the block.

Carousel for Middle Eastern.

I should stop myself before I make myself even hungrier.
posted by toastyk at 8:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

I tried to identify the two malls on Google Maps and it took me a very long time to realize that the Galleria is at least 3x bigger than the Americana, and is roughly 75% parking. It did not scan for me, at all.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:48 AM on March 4, 2023

Great article, relevant to so, so many of my interests. I've been to six Din Tai Fung locations in two countries and the vibe at each of them is so different, even for locations that are walkable between each other (yes, in Taipei there are Din Tai Fungs where if the line is too long you can just walk to another one the next block over, truly a paradise on earth).

I have a suspicion that part of the reason for the move is that they were receiving feedback that people who live nearer to the Glendale Din Tai Fung were driving the extra distance to the Arcadia Din Tai Fung because it was offensive to be asked to pay for parking on top of an already reasonably spendy night out at a restaurant.
posted by potrzebie at 8:53 AM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Great article! Highly recommend the documentary Jasper Mall for anyone else interested in American mall culture studies.
posted by forkisbetter at 8:54 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

I know the purpose of this isn’t to make me want to go to Din Tai Fung but dammit the last time I went to one was 2018 and now I want a plate of string beans and multiple types of dumplings to share. Will happily go to whichever mall has it next time I’m within a hour of the location.

So so true, it's delicious enough that it makes me want to reconsider my "hell no!" policy regarding plane trips for foreseeable future (just in case my employer wants to send me one the west coast for work reasons).
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:54 AM on March 4, 2023

Keith Isselhardt, the Senior Vice President of Leasing at Brookfield who oversaw the deal, told me it was as simple as “one plus one equals three,” that the Galleria was, according to him, a property with “masses of asses,” and that they could put Din Tai Fung right on the corner of “Main and Main.”

The marketing guy, caught in the wild
posted by chavenet at 9:13 AM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Thanks for the extended list of mall food links from eater.com, excited to check these out. Re: mall food, I have vivid memories of the steak fries I used to eat in my childhood food court (can't remember the name of the chain anymore alas). I have come to appreciate malls as public spaces (sometimes welcoming to teens, often a space for seniors, and in the era of extreme heat waves, an accessible space with air conditioning!) and as reliable purveyors of deep fried food. I also HATE the hellscape of mall parking, the urban heat island effect of all the asphalt, the impervious surfaces that leave little possibility of groundwater recharge. Er, why yes, I teach urban planning.

Din Tai Fung is supposed to open in the basement floor of the Pioneer Place mall in Portland sometime this spring. Very excited. I already go there regularly for the Raising Cane's chicken fingers.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:18 AM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

chavenet, I too marveled at that quote.

The Holdout - "The very last restaurant in NYC's once-bustling East Broadway Mall is hanging on, one tray of dumplings at a time."

Thanks for this link -- based on this, my spouse may go check this place out. (We live in NYC.)

Also, I like that Eater shares, in the credits at the end of an article, the names of the fact checker and copy editor!
posted by brainwane at 9:47 AM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Din Tai Fung is supposed to open in the basement floor of the Pioneer Place mall in Portland sometime this spring

Have you been to the Dun Tai Fung in Beaverton at Washington Square? I enjoy it when I go, but I'd rather go to Duck House.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:05 AM on March 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Dr. Twist and SpamandKimchi, we gotta have a Portland dumpling meet up!

kliuless , this is an amazing post. thank you!
posted by vespabelle at 10:38 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

If there's any actual 'drama' around the Din Tai Fung move in Glendale, it's that the Americana has brought in another soup dumpling chain, Paradise Dynasty, to fill its spot - so now the two will be competing head-to-head.
posted by kickingtheground at 11:14 AM on March 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

We have a DTF nearby, and while it’s definitely my favorite restaurant acronym I’ll confess that I’ve been a bit … underwhelmed by the food itself.

It’s not bad, but I guess I’d liken it to an upscale taqueria — unless you’re ordering a bunch of secondary dishes, you’re not getting any better than what you’d find at a good hole-in-the-wall, and you’re paying 3x as much.

Also, for me it just doesn’t feel like dim sum without someone yelling “You eat this!” and shoving another basket of food at me every few minutes.
posted by bjrubble at 12:11 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Din Tai Fung makes no pretenses of being a dim sum restaurant, so comparing it to a dim sum experience doesn't really make sense.

The Seattle area has a chain called Dough Zone that seems to exist pretty much entirely to absorb demand for XLB from people who don't have time to wait in line at Din Tai Fung. I expect the situation between the two Glendale mall dumpling places to be much the same.
posted by potrzebie at 12:46 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Seattle area has a chain called Dough Zone

I used to dig Dough Zone, but the last couple of times I've gone, it's been... underwhelming. The last time, the meat in one of the types of dumpling somehow managed to be hard to chew.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 1:08 PM on March 4, 2023

The ribs are basically mean candy, and the green beans are somehow fantastic despite the fact they are green beans. The dumplings are the star of the show of course, but I’ve had them less often recently as I have been getting delivery and they don’t travel well.
posted by Artw at 1:29 PM on March 4, 2023

Also I am told it is basically paying over the odds for Taiwanese street food, to which I would reply Taiwanese street food must be amazing then.
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2023

For locals reading this, FYI a random malls-adjacent hole-in-the-wall spot that we love is Gam Tu Bop.
posted by BlahLaLa at 2:22 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oh stop Thorzdad, you aren't even a panda, and just because you've never seen one being served there, doesn't mean they don't. What you mean is they don't serve furries, and of course they don't, the fur tends to get caught in your teeth.
posted by evilDoug at 2:38 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Dr. Twist and SpamandKimchi, we gotta have a Portland dumpling meet up!

This is an excellent idea
posted by Dr. Twist at 5:25 PM on March 4, 2023

forkisbetter beat me to the Jasper Mall documentary recommendation, so I’ll just strongly agree and urge folks to check it out. Maybe it just hit a sweet spot for me personally, but it really felt like important filmmaking - understated, touching, human.
posted by zoinks at 7:30 PM on March 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Can't stand either the Galleria (I feel my spine compress whenever I walk in there from the weight of the place) or the Americana (because faux public square things make me mad).

Love Din Tai Fung - yes the green beans are awesome. I live not too far aware from the original pair of next door locations in Arcadia (line too long at store 1? turn the corner and go to store #2!). Still can't figure out where exactly in the Santa Anita Mall DTF is. That place frustrates the crap out of me too.

These days I usually just skip the mall and go to Lucious Dumplings - they're not quite as precise as the DTF XLBs, but they do the trick nicely. (actually like their variety better and I wish I knew the magic trick to their beef noodle soup broth because holy smokes I would seriously try and live on that stuff alone)
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:00 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Also I am told it is basically paying over the odds for Taiwanese street food, to which I would reply Taiwanese street food must be amazing then.

Taiwanese street food is to die for!* I'm going for work in May, and staying two extra days for some personal time. Cannot wait for my friends to take me out to dinner, it's the absolute best!

*With the caveat that I'm not too fond of grilled octopus on a stick...
posted by gemmy at 8:08 PM on March 4, 2023

What lines? I don’t know if they’re still doing it but during the first days of the pandemic DTF ran a top notch curbside pickup operation.
posted by rdr at 8:40 PM on March 4, 2023

Re: good dumplings (not just xlb) in the SGV, all my favorite dumplings are from restaurants with "noodle" in the name. I love love love potstickers, so it maybe makes sense that the dough for a good noodle makes a good potsticker? Tasty Noodle. 101 Noodle.

And glory be to Taiwanese street food. XLB are too fragile for street food though. I feel like 50% of what I ate in Taipei was either deep fried and/or on a stick.

And still, the first time I got to visit Taipei, my friend and I stepped into a taxi at the airport and asked the driver to take us straight to Din Tai Fung. It was like the Korean joke that Korean tourists are great at French, they confidently get in a cab and simply say "Louis Vuitton" but you know, for dumplings.

Portland dumpling meet up co-sign! I really enjoyed Master Kong's xlb. Have yet to try Dough Zone.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:19 PM on March 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

I felt this article if only because I once lost my car at Mall of America and walked up and down pressing the key fob. As I have only been there a few times I didn’t know the parking lots are kind of folded together so if you exit from the wrong floor you can’t get to the floor immediate above or below you from the lot.
Dumpling drama is a lot better than teens shooting each other which is what MOA is dealing with now.

Also, I want some soup dumplings now.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:58 AM on March 5, 2023

There's a Dough Zone in San Jose now, and l like them. The prices are quite reasonable, the dumplings are tasty, and they have some good noodles, I like their dan dan in particular.
posted by tavella at 11:35 AM on March 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

I really enjoyed Master Kong's xlb.

I have yet to actually try the soup dumplings there. Both times I've gone I went to the restroom to wash up and the food came while I was in there and my kids ate all of them.
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:39 AM on March 5, 2023 [2 favorites]